Kay's Journey: Part One

In this heartfelt episode of the Surviving Loss: Our Journey of Hope podcast, host Milton Dennis pays tribute to Megan Morgan and dedicates the discussion to her memory. The episode begins with a touching excerpt from Megan's obituary, highlighting her radiant smile and infectious love for life. Milton is then joined by Kay Bela, an attempt survivor, who shares her inspiring story of overcoming anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts.

Kay takes us back to her life before October 2014, describing her lifelong struggle with mental health challenges. Through her emotional journey, she emphasizes the importance of not giving up, expressing hope for healing, and finding the beauty within ourselves. Kay's words of encouragement and wisdom provide a powerful message for anyone facing similar struggles.

The episode concludes with heartfelt gratitude to Kay for her openness and strength in sharing her story. Listeners are invited to join the next episode, where Kay will share her journey of hope, discussing her current endeavors and successful navigation through adversity. Additionally, the episode acknowledges the support of Four Corner Strategies in editing and posting the podcast, and highlights Cal's Hope, a nonprofit organization providing scholarships through donations.

Tune in to this touching episode of Surviving Loss: A Journey of Hope to gain insight, inspiration, and a renewed sense of hope for the future. Stay connected by visiting calshope.com and miltondennis.org for more information and to access previous and upcoming episodes.

Visit CalsHope.com | Call or Text 988 for confidential mental health and suicidal ideation support

Transcript

Kay Bela's Journey
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[00:00:00] Hi folks. Thanks for joining us. You're listening to Surviving Loss, our Journey of Hope podcast, and I'm Milton Dennis. Today's podcast we want to dedicate to Megan Morgan. Megan was born December 22nd, 1982, and left us on June 9th, 2022. A clip from Megan's, obituary is your smile and face is something very hard to live without.

That smile and face will always be forever in our hearts as we use those happy moments to put together the broken parts. And most recently, , on December 21st, 2022, Jenna Carter, the sister-in-law of Megan, wrote a reflection, the day before her birthday. Tomorrow would've been your 40th birthday.

We lost you back in June. You would've deserved the best party. We would be doing the silliest things I could imagine, cuz that's the way you would've wanted it. You were the best party [00:01:00] planner and had us doing the most hysterical things. Looking back, I understand that you only wanted to make memories.

You accomplished that 100%. You were my sister, not only by marriage, but most of all by choice. I have loved you unconditionally for 20 years. My heart broke like it never broke before. The day you left us, your, your magnetic. Magnetic, you were magnetic. You lit up every room with your smile and love for life.

You were an amazing mom. Your love and devotion was undeniable. You were such a giving, incredibly smart and thoughtful woman. I admire your strength and toughness. You were my a team. Family was one of your core values. Your natural beauty was flawless. The most perfect freckles in awe. I picture you in heaven, al already running shop.

Your presence can never be replaced. You left us with so many good [00:02:00] memories to try to hold onto until we meet again. I will miss you every day. Till then, happy 40th birthday to my most beautiful Hawaiian Meg. And that's a beautiful dedication, from a friend of mine who lost his daughter to suicide.

And , our thoughts and prayers are with them as they continue their journey. And today we are going to do a podcast with Kay Bela. Hi Kay. How you doing? Doing well. How are you? Great, great. And, this podcast is a little bit different. Most of our podcasts are survivors of loss and, Kay, you're an attempt survivor.

And I think that this is a voice that, that needs to be heard, in so many different ways out there. You know, we talk so much about, our, our journey of loss and our journey of hope, but, I think with, listeners today out there listening to this podcast about your journey, with struggles, and then the second part of the podcast, your journey of hope is gonna be so inspiring to many of them.[00:03:00] 

And I, I think everything that you share with us today is gonna be important for the listeners. So, um, without further ado, I'd like for you, if you could take us back to what life was like with Kay before October, 2014, prior to your crisis. For me, my suicide attempts and, um, suicidal thoughts and ideation have come from a lifetime of struggling with anxiety and depression, um, from a young age.

Um, the first memory I have was as a preteen, just feeling like something was off. I was a little bit different from other people. Um, I couldn't, um, I was dealing a lot of, a lot of strong emotions, trouble emotionally regulating. Um, I also recently found out that, uh, I knew I was, I was homeschooled, um, fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth grade, but I didn't realize that.

I had talked to my parents recently and they shared [00:04:00] how, um, that was mainly due to, you know, I was having trouble focusing in my classrooms as a young kid. And, um, so I had some, some. Challenges, some trauma that happened in my early developmental years that led to a lot of this anxiety and depression. Um, and so all growing up I kind of was wrestling constantly against the anxiety and depression and trying to figure out how to make myself better and how to not deal with it anymore.

So I leaned a lot into my faith. Um, I feel like in a lot of ways I started to notice I was chasing a lot of highs. So the, um, you know, it, it felt good to be involved in something that made me feel good. So, um, I was really into my spirituality, my Christian faith, um, was trying to volunteer a lot, constantly reading the bible, constantly in church, singing.

My dad was the lead of worship, um, at church. Cool. And so I was always singing and, um, [00:05:00] loved music, really connected to it, and it made me feel. Feel safe and calm and, you know, it was a way that the music could connect with me and I didn't have to tell people what was really going on. Um, and so I really leaned a lot into my faith all growing up.

And that was like, you know, I had, I, I was trying to fix myself through my faith and through helping other people. And I leaned into a lot of, um, biblical teachings and helping other people, but I was also not really taking care of myself. And in the Christian faith that's all about giving to others. And, and, but I was giving from a lot of times a place of, of emptiness and tiredness, um, and trying to fill myself back up.

But there, there just always seemed like this emptiness. There was always this, like, I wasn't complete. I wasn't. It wasn't whole, and I was constantly trying to seek something to fill that void. Um, so my faith worked for a long time, but then, um, but then it stopped [00:06:00] working as effectively. I, I did a emissions trip where I went to 11 countries over 11 months, and this was supposed to be like, the epitome of my spiritual journey was like, okay, I'm going to all these other countries.

It's everything that everybody talks about in the Christian world as like, you know, like, oh, you're doing all this stuff for God, completely giving my life to the service of God. And so I was very, you know, I was like, this is gonna be the greatest thing. And instead, what I found was a very, Um, interesting world of so many different cultures.

Um, and they were beautiful outside of the Christian world as well. Um, and I started to connect with other kinds of people and also just realized that everywhere, everyone is flawed and imperfect and so am I. And so no matter where I went, I could, I could, I couldn't outrun my own problems anymore either.

And so I'm going and doing missions in all these other countries thinking this is gonna fix it. And it's like, Nope. Everywhere I [00:07:00] go, there I am. That's what I really kept, kept discovering for myself, was everywhere I go, there I am. So the same challenges, the same struggles. I just keep dealing with the same things over and over again.

It doesn't matter where I go, um, or what I do. I still feel this emptiness. I still feel super anxious. I still can't seem to emotionally regulate very well. And I'm still very depressed. And so, so I chase these highs and then when it didn't work out or started to not go as well and I was very idealistic about it, it would start to not go as well and I would get super depressed and discouraged and that's where the low would come in.

So, um, so then I would start to look for something else, try to chase that. Um, but constantly this cycle of hope and then it not working out and getting worse. And so you do that cycle enough and you just get tired and it's like, you know, you get apathetic and just feel like, I just felt like, you know, okay, so if this wasn't it, [00:08:00] then, you know, is there really anything that's going to.

Fill this void to make me feel whole, to calm my anxiety on like a longer term basis. Um, so, so yeah, in, um, 2014, I, I came back from the world. I came back from, from that experience. And then, um, and then I was, I became a teacher and I, I was teaching one of the, this was another thing that was supposed to be a huge high of like, I'm helping all these students.

I'm gonna make their lives better. I'm gonna save the world, um, kind of mentality. And you get there and you realize, oh my gosh, they're high schoolers and they're rebellious and they're stubborn and they drive you nuts. And, you know, I just felt like very small and not in control. And with anxiety, it's a huge control issue, uh, of not feeling safe and feeling the need to control.

And so, um, So as I was a teacher, you just feel very out of control. Like I wasn't in control of what I [00:09:00] could teach and, you know, I was to some extent, but my class sizes were huge and standardized testing and, you know, all of these things in the public school system. And I, I, I just felt very lost and overwhelmed by all the work.

And so I started coping with coping more and more with alcohol. Um, it had been kind of a, a small thing here and there during like extreme circumstances, but this was like a big extreme circumstance. So I started, I, I just, I had kind of given up, I got back from that trip and I started teaching and was just like, This makes me feel better, um, for right now.

And I don't have any energy to do anything else. I don't have energy to, to try to find something else to clinging to, and none of it's really helping anyway, so I may as well just give into this, um, because it makes me at least feel better in this moment and at least as much as it leads to the hangover and the anxiety after, at least for a moment, sometimes, not even a moment to be honest, but at least for a moment, I feel [00:10:00] like something is putting a damper on all of the strong emotions that I have all the time.

So, yeah, I, I called, I called my, um, drug and alcohol abuse from 2019, I'm sorry, 2019 from, uh, 1983 to 1985 by self-medicating. Mm-hmm. Um, because you would, you know, you have that dopamine effect from the high you get when you get the high, but then when you start to go low, it, it. That dopamine effect's not there.

Yeah. And then you go from the, a depressed mode to a even deeper depressed mode. Mm-hmm. So, no, I, I hear what you're saying, but would you call yours a a, a self-medicating? Alcohol abuse or? Yeah, very much so. I mean, it was, it, it was just trying to figure out, you know, how to, how to make it better. And interestingly, I was very opposed to medication, but alcohol, I think, [00:11:00] I think some is the, you know, it, it is a lot of the stigma around certain things.

So like, if you take medication, if you go to see a therapist, if you, you know, have a psychiatrist, oh, well, you know, like there's quote unquote something wrong with you. But there's the cultural norm of, we, you know, you watch movies, you listen to music, it's all about like, let's have fun. Let's drink alcohol.

Let's, you know, like, oh, somebody said, okay, drink alcohol. Oh, somebody's happy, let's drink alcohol. Like, so it's, it's very societally a very, um, accepted method. And so I think a lot of people don't really realize when you have a quote unquote problem with it. One, because I was really good at hiding it.

Honestly. I would drink, but then, um, Nobody knew that I was drinking cuz I was that discreet about it and quiet. Um, and so, so like, even, even with my husband in, in later years, he a lot of times had no idea because I just, I was that discreet about it. I would get the, I would get the high, I would get the release, I [00:12:00] would sober up real fast.

And then, you know, by the time we got home I was, you know, like, Normal again, right? Fine. Um, but at least I had gotten some kind of release of all of the emotions and stuff. And, um, and interestingly, alcohol was a lot of times a place I felt safe where all of the mask could come down and I could just feel all the feelings, I could feel all of the emotions.

And I realize now that that's what I need to do on a daily basis. And it's uncomfortable to do it when you're sober. Um, but at the same time, that's the way that, you know, we're supposed to deal with our emotions, is to just feel them. We let them out. We grieve, we, we cry. We're happy, we're excited, we're angry.

It's okay to just like let them out and just, and then look at them and say like, okay, what's going on? That, that's leading to this feeling. And then just also accepting that not, not all feelings are wrong or bad. Um, I was constantly. Having to regulate myself to, and like hide myself. So like, and people [00:13:00] will still say this about me today, where they can look at me and they can have a conversation and they're like, oh, you, you look so calm.

And inside my heart will be racing and my mind will be swirling all over the place and they'll have no idea. Just because that's, that's my defense mechanism is nobody can know what I'm actually thinking and feeling cuz I have to be there for them. And so, um, a story, don't have a look. Yeah, yeah. And, and unfortunately a lot of people, they do look at the outward appearance and they see, you know, you know, they, they see a beautiful girl and they're like, oh wow.

You know, like, it must be so easy for you. You have it all together, you have this, you have that. And, and it makes it very easy to not let people know. Um, it's the lie of omission. You just don't, if you don't say it, nobody knows and Right. Um, Can wear the mask without a problem. Yeah, yeah. And so, so alcohol one, [00:14:00] sometimes I wasn't even sure what I was feeling.

Like, I was like, I just feel off, I feel upset for some reason. Um, but I was still trying, I was constantly trying to understand myself. I was like, you know, why? When my husband said such and such, did I react that way? Why? Why did I get so angry all of a sudden just out of the blue? Because he asked me something very simple.

Um, why did I get really sad when I saw a brief, you know, Like kind of questioning look of a friend, you know? Or like, why did I immediately feel rejected or abandoned? Um, so I would have all these feelings and I just couldn't figure out like what the sources were. Like, why was I acting that way? Because it didn't, it wasn't a normal way to act, you know?

I should be able to look at a friend and be like, oh, well they're upset about their stuff, you know, and not immediately think, oh, it was me. I need to do something. You know, like I was so, I was so hyper-vigilant about everybody's el, everybody else's emotional state and interpreting everybody's emotional state as negative [00:15:00] and not able to like fully be myself or fully even be present a lot of times.

And so, you know, it's a very stressful way to live. I was very, very stressed all the time. Just your body just feels so like, tense and hypervigilant. So, you know, the, the suicidal thoughts were, oh man, it was just an escape. It was just, it would feel so good to just not have to fight anymore. You know? Like you feel like you're constantly at war.

And, um, and so, so when I would drink alcohol, I actually, interestingly, I felt like I learned more about myself because the mask came down on, like, for me, and I could just feel those emotions, but I also would find myself like, just saying what I was actually feeling and thinking that I'm, I wouldn't say if other people were there, you know, just like letting out the sadness and anger.

And my husband, you know, like he's, he's a happy drunk, so like if he's drinking, he's like laughing and having fun and stuff. For me, I would get [00:16:00] super depressed because that's when all of those emotions would just, that I'd been hiding, would just come out and I would just start acting in all these ways because I, I, you can't keep the mask up anymore when you have alcohol.

So where did, where did, where did it take you when that dopamine of the, of the alcohol wore off and you were in that depressed state? And we know as, as we come off of a high or you know, the, the high from alcohol, whatever it might be, you start going deeper and darker. Mm-hmm. Um, where did that take you if you were getting depressed at, during that high?

Um, uh, that's, that's a lot of times where any kind of, um, a attempts would come out a lot during, during times when I was drinking. Um, I would consider a lot of different methods, um, and, and it was, it was more actionable at those times. It was like, you [00:17:00] know, beforehand, you know, if I'm sober, it's like, well, I have that thought, but I can dismiss it.

But when I was drinking, it was like, well, I won't feel it right now. And like it actually became more of a, a quote unquote possibility in my mind. And also like, you know, the only time that I would actually do that, I was kind of too scared a lot of times to, to do it. So the alcohol was that numbing agent of like, Okay, well, you know, you can, um, you can do it, but it was like, no, that's not.

And so it became harder and harder to fight during those times. And then the, um, the next couple days, um, other people, they would drink and the next day they're good and you know, they may be a little hungover and stuff, but they wouldn't get super depressed. For me, it was like the week after because I had had a lot of times a huge emotional release during the time I drank.

Right. So I would even only drink like maybe once a week, um, once or twice a week. And I wouldn't drink that much. I would only have like a couple glasses or something, but I've got heavier and heavier, um, and, um, less and less of the juice and more and more of the [00:18:00] actual hard liquor. Right, right. Um, so, um, so you know, like I, I got used and then I got used to that pattern, but, you know, any, then it was like I would drink on that that night or, and, and then the next week I would feel that depression.

One, I think because of the alcohol, but two, just because of the reality of the fact that I had all those emotions that were buried and that now I had to go along the rest of the week and the next week still acting like I was fine and like, you know, oh, I'm just tired, or, oh, I'm just, you know, and, and dismiss it as something else.

But, um, and not a lot of pe nobody, nobody saw that side. Um, and I think when you're there alone and, um, it, it just, you know, you, you just feel alone and absolutely keep continuing that cycle. And, you know, then there's the regret and the guilt and the shame of like, you know, what am I doing? And, you know, this isn't something that was, it's, it's not something that's in line with who I [00:19:00] am.

I love to be there for other people. I love to, you know, help other people and be a light to, to others and give them hope. And so to drink was like also very against my values and who I wanted to be as a person too. Um, and, you know, the decisions I would make and stuff, it was just like, you know, this isn't who I want to be.

I, I don't, I don't wanna be this kind of person. But, so there's, I think there was also that, that leads to even more depression, um, because you come out of it and oh my gosh, like, you know, what was that? You know? Yeah. And then there's all that regret, guilt and shame that kind of comes. So, yeah. Hmm. So a, after all of that, where, when did it really start to hit you hard to where you thought about suicide?

Um, I, I don't know. I, I think, um, it was something that was kind of a, it was [00:20:00] a, um, like a monthly thing. Um, I can't remember when it started. Um, so I lost my brother to alcohol when I was 13 and when he passed away, um, there was a lot of, Um, I guess weird, weird piece around, um, him passing, because beforehand there was a lot of, he was always in and outta jail.

He was always in and outta rehab. He stole my sister's car and blew it up. He called it a bomb threat to the high school. He, you know, like he, you know, flooded the courthouse. He did all of this stuff that like, there was so much energy and charge around this person and like, you know, what's he doing now?

And, and then when he passed away, everybody was feeling remorse. And they feel sad and they realize what they've, you know, like they, they realize what they've done. They've realized, you know, like, oh, well I should have done this more with, with him. I should have been, you know, more [00:21:00] that way. And, you know, and, and like you hear a lot of love around the person who passed.

That I, I honestly, I don't know that that person ever heard. And, and also there's just like a, almost, there is a sigh of relief of like, this person took so much energy and time and attention and um, and that was very draining for, for the whole family and for, you know, anybody that was kind of associated with him.

And so, so there was a relief a around that I think, you know, I don't know if other people felt that, but that's kind of what, what I felt. It was kind of like deflating a balloon. And as I was dealing with stuff, and like I said, I had trouble regulating my emotions and I would try to communicate them with others and I would hurt other people and they would be all upset, wouldn't talk to me for years at a time.

Or they would come back and say like, they'd pretend like it was all fine at that time. And then they would come back later and say like, no, this really, you know, like, actually these are all the things that I [00:22:00] thought and I had no idea. So then there becomes this like, A cycle of, you know, like mistrust for myself and others around me.

Um, and you know, like just an uncertainty and like turmoil and you feel like you're hurting other people. And everybody's like, constantly, it felt like everybody was constantly upset at me. I could never do anything good enough. Or, um, you know, I could never be everything that they all wanted me to be, and they would still reject me.

Even I could do everything right, like to a t and they would still find something that I had done wrong. And so I became very perfectionistic, um, to try to at least deal with that, but still didn't work. But, you know, at least I was hypervigilant and I was trying my best, you know? Um, but, you know, I, I still didn't feel safe.

So, so I think as I was experiencing all of this turmoil around me, I was like, maybe it would be better if I wasn't here. Maybe they would all relax if I wasn't here. [00:23:00] And, um, And maybe, maybe I would be at peace, maybe they would be more at peace if I just wasn't here, maybe then everybody would just be happy.

Um, and you know, cause I seem to be the main source of the problem, but really it's, it's a dysfunctional system, so everybody's a part of the problem. Um, so I, it, it's hard to say. Um, I think the biggest catalysts for me of actual, like suicide attempts and actually that the more severe stuff is when, um, I don't have a lot of order irregularity.

So like, if I'm in a lot of like, lacking a lot of routine, um, if I'm in a chaotic, stressful environment, so my first year teaching and, um, and like, you know, a busy, busy work environment, like, and not just a busy one, but like a too busy one where like you can never, you never feel like you're in control and you never feel like you're.

You're safe because you constantly have to be, [00:24:00] um, right moving. So, and when I drink, so like I could be in the best situations in the world, but if I'm drinking, everything still seems to turn negative. Um, and I think because it has been such a, a source of coping, and it also, I think some of these things sometimes then become their own trigger, where like, you did them at times when you were severely depressed.

And now anytime you do them, it's associated with that severe depression. Even if you're not in that place, you know, it's kind of like, you know, opening a box of your loved one's stuff and you're like immediately a volunteers, you know, there's something about certain actions, smells, senses, feelings that you associate with, um, that dark place.

And so, so if I'm, yeah, so drinking, lack of routine or organization and, you know, time, periods of time where there's like, been severe overwhelm and particularly what you, what a lot of people call burnout. Um, So, yeah. [00:25:00] Well, so how many, how many attempts have you had? That's a, that's a hard one. Um, I would say there, you don't have to answer that if you don't want to.

I would say there have been, well, it's, it's more that I can't answer it. It's because for me, my attempts are, so, I, I would say there have been two severe experiences that were like, I, I am very unsafe and I need to, um, I need to do something. So the one was when I was hospitalized eight years ago, um, eight and a half years ago.

And then there was one actually in, uh, March of this year, actually, interestingly enough. Um, and, um, this, this second time was the, I, I, I would say I did everything right. Um, the first time I needed to be convinced I needed to [00:26:00] be taken to the hospital and kind of almost forced to get help, and I needed other people to fight for me.

Um, this last time I was able to recognize the signs in myself. I had, um, I had a good system in place and had built healthy relationships and connections and safe people that I reached out to my support network and was like, I don't feel safe right now. I need to go somewhere. Um, I didn't want to go to inpatient.

I, I really wanted to be around people that I knew I loved and cared about and trusted. Um, so I went and stayed. Um, I went and stayed with my parents and my brother and my sister-in-law and, you know, just did life with them. We played, played some games, had some fun. Um, but I, I would say those are the two experiences where I was like, At my max where, you know, where I, you know, I think a lot of people will consider it an [00:27:00] actual attempt, but there, but the, the trouble with my life story and my situations with suicide attempts is like, there have been many times where I drank so much and just hoped I didn't wake up the next morning and would make wake up angry that I was still here because I had tried to drink enough to, um, to do that.

And there I, I don't even know, I can't even count how many times I did that. Um, but in the last couple years, you know, it had gotten pretty severe, I think especially through, um, you know, through all the isolation with Covid. And we had a really, um, difficult living situation, um, with like, you know, just a lot of like, stuff that we could hear from neighbors and stuff that was like abuse.

And so, you know, there were, it was just very unsafe. Um, living situation. So, um, so I would say, yeah, I mean there, there have been many, many attempts over the years, but I don't, [00:28:00] um, I didn't really like, I guess do anything about them or get help at those times. I would just wake up and be sick for a couple days from the alcohol.

Um, and, and yeah, try to, you know, try to, try to play it off, um, try to pretend that it wasn't as severe as it was. Um, try to deal with it in my own ways. And, you know, I was, I would try to see a therapist, but it just, it wasn't really, I still wasn't getting the help that I needed or, you know, finding a way to get out of it.

Like, I couldn't seem to get myself out of it at that point. So,

And each, each attempt that you had were, were you hospitalized for it or were there times that you, that no one knew about it? Uh, yeah. Most, I was only hospitalized the [00:29:00] once, um, the one time. Yeah. I mean, I, so the, I was, well, three times technically, so there were two times that it was a short inpatient, uh, stay at the hospital and in there, like, they had like a 10 bed unit, but you could only be there like three to five days.

So I think each of those days were three days, and those were within like a week or two of each other. And then I was released the second time and I went and talked to my therapist and she convinced me to go to a really full term, full-time inpatient and like mm-hmm. Stay there. But I, I was only there actually for a week.

Um, and, and that was it. But there have been many times over the years where I'm like, if people knew. I think where my head was, I, I would've been hospitalized a lot more. Um, but I think I was just so good at hiding it and not telling people, um, and just trying to fight my way through it and figure it out.

Um, [00:30:00] yeah. Wow. Um, you, you've mentioned a couple things that I, that we're going to get into in part two of the podcast, uh, which is, you know, your, your journey of hope through all, all of this. Uh, but I want the listeners to, to think about what you just said. One was support network. And again, we'll talk about that in part two.

Uh, but the other one, um, covid, uh, returning back to quote unquote what we call normal, um, with depression. So, you know, one of the things that's part of, uh, Uh, the ideation is, is to isolate self isolate, and we were forced to do that. Now we're forced to get back out into public. Where did that, how did that impact you?

Where did that take you? Um, I think for, for me, um, we had just moved to our new place. [00:31:00] In January, 2020, I got a job. I was there for like a month and a half. Um, and we had previously lived out in Kansas for five years and there was a lot of instability while we were out there. And so I hadn't really pressed into like, you know, a full-time profession there in like, in, in that, uh, place in Kansas.

Um, so when I was out there, I tried to do like all this online business stuff. Well, then we left and it still didn't really, it still wasn't really working. And then we moved and got reestablished. And so this has been like a couple years of me being out of school, trying to find my footing, figure out my career.

I had finally landed a job and was there for like a month or two, and then covid happened. I lost the job because they had to let us all go because financially they couldn't, couldn't handle it. Um, and there was a lot of uncertainty. So they just let us all go. So then again, I had to press into my business.

Um, with coaching and counseling, but [00:32:00] I was pre-licensed and so, and I could only accept self-pay. And then there were all these limits on my licensure about like, telemedicine and, you know, like telehealth and, um, and using the virtual platforms as a pre-licensed person and, you know, who are you working with?

So, so there's a lot of gray area and people were really not wanting to spend financially. And so self pay was like, you know, awful. You know, like you don't even have an insurance company that's gonna, you know, help you pay for your sessions. And so people were like, I don't know what's gonna happen to me financially.

Or they just lost their job or their spouse also just lost their job. So they're like not wanting to invest. So I had, I had a couple clients here and there. I kept pressing into the online platform, but I'm very much an in-person kind of person, right? And I get overstimulated and stressed out by social media and I was doing so much on social media constantly.

Posting in my story, writing posts, trying to build my platforms, and then, you know, networking with people. But everybody gets mad at you. It's kind of [00:33:00] like, you know, like you're, uh, telemarketers on the phone. You know, I was kind of that kind of person and I hated it. I didn't, I didn't wanna be that person, but I was trying to build a business and I didn't, you know, I didn't have any other way that I could do it in person anymore.

And so I'm trying to figure out all this virtual stuff. Um, and for me, I'm very, I'm very sensitive and especially to rejection and, um, and a feeling of abandonment and stuff. And so I'm trying to press into building this business and then people are angry at me and actually like saying stuff because, you know, you're virtual and so like, they don't know who you are.

And a lot of people misjudging me making assumptions and, you know, invalidating, you know, my experience and stuff like that. And so it was very hard. So I basically, that kind of led to a downward spiral. And I just like, I just got lost. I was like, I don't know how to, I don't know how to grow this business because then my, my energy changed and I, I didn't have any confidence because, you know, I just, all that could keep it playing was just a negative [00:34:00] that people were saying.

And then you're not seeing these people. And so even if you have a good connection with somebody, you're just reading a short, brief message and you know, it's reading into all of the silence, you know, of the, you know, like all, they didn't reply in 24 hours, you know, they didn't reply in two minutes. You know, what are they thinking?

And so my mind just spiraled a lot. And, and I think that led to a lot more severe depression cuz like you said, the isolation, the not being able to really read body language. And for somebody that's found a lot of safety and being able to like, okay, I can see how they're feeling now. I'm gonna act this way because they're acting this way.

I can't do any of that when it's all virtual. And putting a lot out there and then not getting anything in return. Um, so it was, it was very, very draining. Um, so I got connected to a nonprofit, um, towards the end of it and started working as the, um, in a suicide prevention coalition there and trying to connect to the work.

But it's also really hard because I was in there as somebody that [00:35:00] was currently struggling. And if you, if, if you've been in the, in the work, you know, it's, it's good to be at least somewhat removed, um, from your experiences sometimes to help other people because it can be very triggering and it's very difficult to talk about, especially suicide all the time when you're having your own suicidal thoughts.

Um, so in some ways it helped to connect to them, but then in other ways it was hard. Um, and regardless, also socially, I became very socially awkward because now it had been a couple years that I've been so isolated. Right. Um, even prior, because prior to, I feel like I got kind of a headstart on all the virtual stuff because prior to Covid I was trying to do this stuff online cuz I knew we were gonna be moving from Kansas to somewhere else and I didn't know where else.

So I was like, I need to build, I need to build this to go wherever I go and Right. Um, and so, but it wasn't really my, my forte, um, as far as the virtual person. Do you think that helped? Do you think that helped you cope a [00:36:00] little bit with the isolation from Covid because you'd already started building that platform like that?

Um, I, in some ways yes. And now I, I understand more of what my balance needs to be. I am, uh, Anytime I've taken, um, any kind of personality assessment, I divide evenly between introverted and extroverted. And so like, I'm, I'm neither introverted or extroverted. So like for me, I like kind of like 50 50. So I like being in person.

I like being face-to-face, but I can also be drained a lot by that and be tired if I have too much of it. And vice versa if I spend too much time virtually. Then I, you know, I'm like, ah, I need to talk to people. I need to be face to face and stuff. And so I didn't realize this, I guess at that time, about what balance I needed.

And I was always guilty and shaming myself, oh, I should be more like this. I should be more like these people that are super social and in front of people all the time. I was, I just, I never accepted myself. And so I was constantly shaming myself and guilting myself, and I sh I should be [00:37:00] somebody else.

And so now I'm comfortable with myself and I'm like, look, I need a 50 50 split. This is how I need to run my business. And this feels best to me. And so I'm comfortable with my alignment, but you know, at that time I very much was not. And so, um, so yeah, I mean, it, it was helpful, but I think it was also like too much of it.

Um, so I needed, I needed more of a balance. I needed to be out there with people. I understand that. Yeah. So I know you're, you're, you were talking about, um, your hospitalization. Um, What did you do when you, when you come out, how did, how did you look at life and your, your ideation of suicide? How, what did you do?

How did, how did you, how did you navigate through that? That's a good question. Um, I think when you come out of a crisis [00:38:00] situation, it, it is a lot like losing somebody. When I lost my brother, it was very much this way where you kind of like walk around and you, you're like, everybody's acting normal, but something really severe just happened to me, right?

And so it's that kind of like, you're, like, you get it if you've lost somebody because like, everybody's just moving, everybody's milling about everybody's, you know, business and happy or sad or dealing with their own stuff. And you're like, I just almost died. You know, like this was something that was. You know, very, very big.

But then you're expected, you know, like I, so I had that week and the next week I was back teaching, so I had to like, jump back into it, make lesson plans present in front of students. Um, I just jumped back into it, got parent teacher conferences, you know, getting, you know, like kids getting in fights or, you know, trying to like, you know, disrupt class or something, punishing them, taking 'em [00:39:00] outside, talking to 'em for a minute, having lunch with them while they tell me about their life and their, you know, their high school problems and stuff.

Mm-hmm. That was my favorite part. I, I loved it. That's why I became a therapist, but, you know, when I was a high school teacher, you know, yeah. You, you just, you just gotta sink back into it. And it's hard because then you just have to kind of, you have to learn to compartmentalize. And my dad says that a lot of times about how he dealt with the grief of my brother passing was like, he's like, Sometimes you just gotta, you know, you gotta put the box back up on the shelf while you're at work and just like, not think about it, not go there.

But then as soon as you're able, then you take the box back down off the shelf and you let yourself feel it, let yourself process it, let yourself grieve it, and then, you know, and deal with it and move on. Um, and, and then you can move on a little bit easier, but bit easier. And when you're first coming out, it feels very sensitive, where like, there's a lot of things that make you cry and break down.

Um, and you know, [00:40:00] for me, I was still, I, I was getting better, but I was still drinking. Um, not as heavily, but I started going to see a therapist. I think I, I think I was seeing her once, maybe even twice a week at that point. Um, still drinking, but just not as heavily. And actually I met my husband, uh, within a couple weeks of getting out of the hospital.

And this is also an interesting thing. So we ended up, Uh, getting married within three months. And so my family was not happy, um, because they're like, you just went through this severe mental health crisis and now you're jumping into this. But for me, my husband was very, very safe in a way that I had never experienced with anybody before.

My husband is Albanian and he's very transparent, and he also would get upset, but then we'd, we'd hash it out and we'd fight it out, and then it was like, it never happened. We'd just like move on and he could just let it go. And it wasn't something, he's piling up all of this stuff in his head. He was [00:41:00] just like, this is what I'm feeling, this is what I'm thinking.

So that became very safe for me. But, but regardless, it was a very, in some ways it was chasing another high where like he was very safe and, you know, was a, was a good connection. And so like I, my identity became a lot in him as well. So like, and I, I was, I was kind of aware of it, but I also. I knew that I needed it at that time.

And you know, over the years now we've been married, um, eight and a half years. And over the years, I gradually had to kind of separate my identity and my self-worth from him and say like, even if he weren't here, you know, like I would still be okay cuz I'm, I'm me, right? And I'm, I'm a whole person on my own.

Um, but there was very much a, this person makes me feel safe and secure and I need something stable right now. And, um, and he feels really safe in a weird, you know, like when you meet somebody that you just kind of like, you're like, I don't know why, [00:42:00] but you just get me and you're my person. Um, it was very much that way with him and I was like, whether I just came out of a crisis or not, this is the only person I've ever felt this way with.

Um, so, so, yeah. Yeah. It's funny you say that because the first time I seen my, seen my wife, one of the first things I said is like, I can see myself with her. Yeah. And I just, I met her and, and you know, Today she is even through the whole relationship, but she's, she's always been my, my best friend. And, um, yeah.

And it's, it was, it was, um, it was different than any other relationship that I had been in. Yeah. Um, because she's a very independent, um, professional, so she didn't need me. Yeah. She did not need me. So it was, you know, it was, it was really cool to have someone that, that loved me. So I hear what you're saying.

I understand. When you, when you get that feeling that this is the person, this person makes it work for you mm-hmm. That, uh, you know, you [00:43:00] can make those decisions quickly. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's. But then again, you have the family, he's like, oh, you should spend time together. You should build a relationship.

Yeah. How do you know he is going to be for Oh, yeah, they had, a year from now, they had so many questions. They had never met him. We were, you know, like I said, I grew up in a very strong Christian family, and my husband actually grew up Muslim and Right. You know, he wasn't practicing his faith and, and I was kind of, you know, I was letting go of the Christian faith a bit more and kind of just trying to figure out myself.

But, you know, like, so they, they had a lot of issues with that. They were like, you know, he, he could be using you for a green card. One sister accused him of being, um, a terrorist and sent me this Oh, wow. Email about like all of these things that, you know, all the reasons that, you know, we should get.

Actually this was after we were married, so she wanted me to get an annulment and you know, like all of these potential issues. And I was like, if you just meet the man. You'll see he's the biggest, sweetest teddy bear. The man doesn't wanna kill a spider. Like he just, he [00:44:00] grew up like, you know, very, very much in like in nature, in the woods and stuff like that.

We, and we both love nature and we actually did good for you. Did a road trip after we left Kansas for two and a half months and lived out of our car, went to all these national parks and stuff like, we're such, we're such like hikers and nerds in that way. But, but I'm like, if you just meet him, like, because he does have this feeling of safety and just like, he accepted me a hundred percent how I was, you know, like, and I, I was constantly and he used to get, he used to get mad at me cuz I would ask him, I was like, why do you love me?

I was like, I don't, I don't get it. I'm, I'm, to me, I wasn't lovable to me, I was so messed up and I had so many things wrong with me and I was, I was scared a lot of times to be transparent with him. And I would say I, I wasn't even fully sure with him within like the first year or two. It wasn't until a couple years in that I was like, I think he really knows me now, you know?

Right. Like, because I was still, I still had so many guards up and so many defenses [00:45:00] up, and I, and I was trying to like, you know, I would let him in and, and like he would handle it and he was good with it. And I was like, okay. So then you let him in a little bit more and you let him in a little bit more.

And, and so like, you know, we, we, I started to develop this trust and, and this connection to him. But, um, but yeah, I was very confused. And, and it's weird now because now I'm in this healed state of mind and I'm like, I don't know how he saw the me that I am now at that time. Like, it's like he could see through all of that to see who I am now and loved me for it.

And like, I'm like, how did you, I couldn't even, like, I couldn't even see myself. I didn't even, but he saw something, you know, that he loved and that was beautiful and he saw the whole version of me and like, you know, it's just so weird. It's like, how did he see those things with me? Um, And so, you know, like it did it.

I will say I, I feel very lucky that helped me a lot because going to a therapist once a week was helpful, but it really [00:46:00] was that, you know, you need, you need a constant, you need a good constant. So did, did you open up with him and tell him everything right off the right off Jump street? Um, or did you kind of like break it a little bit at a time?

So, well, you know, this is a crisis that I've dealt with. This is a crisis that I've dealt with. And I mean, how, how did you, how did you prepare him for all of that? I don't know. I, I think, so my husband being Albanian, he grew up, um, in a war and so, um, so like he, he still tells me stories of like being eight years old trying to think of how to protect his family.

Um, I would imagine he has a quite a few PTSDs growing up in a war. He does. Yeah. And so I think there's. I think there's just stuff with him where, you know, the Albanian culture, you can just fully be yourself and, you know, family is family though. They still come back together, they still, um, they're still connected.

They can [00:47:00] fight and it's just a healthy environment. They're very family oriented and connected. So connected to each other. Like, we went over to Kosovo and he's like, oh yeah, everybody on this mountain side is basically my family. And I was like, okay. You know, like he's being, you know, like kind of hyperbolic or whatever, you know, he's, he's exaggerating.

Um, but then no, we literally go to every single house and they all serve a tea and they're like, oh yeah, this is a cousin of so-and-so, and this is my uncle, and this is so, and, and you're like, whoa. Like you really are all related and connected to each other. So I think growing up in that kind of culture that has to lean on each other after they're coming out of a war and just the Albanian culture, like they got your back.

Like nobody's got your back like. You know, you can, you can be the worst person, but you know, if, if they're your per, if they're your family. And, you know, there's a, there's a deep, uh, loyalty, very, very deep loyalty. And so, so even though I felt like I was all over the place for him, he was just like, you know, well, everybody has got their stuff and you know, [00:48:00] like, we do.

I got my stuff. You got your stuff. You know, like, there's nothing, you know, you're, you know, you're, you're better than a lot of other people that I, that I know and I have their backs, you know, like you're, there's nothing surprising about you, I guess. And there's, there's nothing like crazy alarming about you just, you know, you get upset.

Yeah. We all get upset sometimes. And, and I think his, you know, I'd see him get, and like, I, I still laugh because I saw him get in a fight with his uncle one time, and, you know, they're yelling at each other and they're like, what? You know, getting all aggressive. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like, we're never gonna talk again.

Like, we're, we're gonna leave and nobody's ever gonna talk. The relationship's done like, He's gonna lose his job cuz they work together and they're, you know, like, and then I look up and I'm, I'm planning out next steps. I'm like, okay, what's his next job gonna be? And I, and, and then like, I look up like five minutes later they're, they're laughing and sharing a cigarette and like patting each other on the back and just like talking it out and stuff.

And I was like, what just happened? Like, why, why can't life be that easy? Yeah. I was like, [00:49:00] that's what I want. I wanna just be able to fight because I'm mad and I, I feel feelings, but maybe they aren't entirely right. But at least like, let's fight it out and like, and like, let's talk it out. And, and so like, he was able to do that with people and I was like, that's, that's the safety I wanted.

I was like, I can be myself. I can express my emotions, I can get upset and I'm not gonna lose him. Um, and he's not scared of it and he's not gonna make me feel bad for it. That's beautiful. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, I mean I, I think yeah, having that kind of like, those kind of healing connections. But I know we'll get into that part too, but Yeah.

Yeah. We know. How did you, how did you feel that he accepted you after sharing all of that with him? What? Um, I think there's a mix of relief and peace and joy and calm, but there's also when you're, when you're used to hiding, Things and people loving you for what they see on the [00:50:00] outside there. There is also a lot of times, one, there's a guilt of, um, you know, uh, yeah, just a, a, a guilt, I think a lot of times where like, I don't deserve this.

I shouldn't have this. Um, I'm, I'm unworthy of this. I'm not good enough for him. He, he doesn't fully know me. Um, once he gets to know me, he'll leave me. That's a huge fear of mine. Um, is like, I've always felt that if, if somebody knew me entirely, that they would reject me and wouldn't love me. Um, and how do you feel about it now?

Um, I think, I think I've, I've found peace with it. Um, you know, I think I've found peace with it. I think it's something that, you know, you kind of have these core beliefs that you gotta work through at different times. I would say I'm a lot. I, I feel at the most, at peace with it I've ever felt right now.[00:51:00] 

Um, good for you. But yeah, it's, it's not easy to accept somebody who loves you so entirely because when we don't accept ourselves and we know ourselves entirely, and it's like, you know, like, well, if this person fully knew me, then. So the, so there is that, that fear and there's guilt and there's still the rejection and abandonment that you fear.

But you know, at least, at least this person, you gotta look at the evidence. And, you know, it's hard because all of this, all of these emotions they're in, they're in the emotional brain and they're in the trauma brain. But then you gotta look at the actual facts. And I do this a lot of times with, with clients and with myself, because if we look at the facts and the reality is that I, I've made mistakes with him.

I've, I've told him things that I expected him to reject me for. And same with any, like, people in my network. And time and time again, he's proven himself to be loyal, to be faithful, to, to be consistent, to [00:52:00] be like a good person and a, and my best friend. Um, so he's proven that over and over again. So I can look at the facts and say, even though I feel these things, I know that these are cognitive distortions, not based in reality because I can look at the facts and see this is actually what it is.

So, so it makes it a little bit easier, I think, to separate your, your emotions and your trauma brain from what your actual existence is. Um, right. But yeah, it's hard to fully believe it sometimes, but, but at least knowing that you can kind of trust in the facts more than your emotional brain. And I know we haven't, we haven't dis discussed this.

I mean, we've only had a few conversations, but I, what I'm hearing from you is it, it, it takes me to a, a place in my life where, you know, I built this wall around me and I would only give out 50% and only take in 50% that way. I was almost guaranteed not to get a hundred percent hurt. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it sound, it sounds almost like [00:53:00] that, you know, with your husband at that wall.

It's now disappearing. Mm-hmm. Because you've got that, that friendship, you've got that, that love. You've got that trust, you've got that safe place. Mm-hmm. Um, that, that the two of you are, have created. Mm-hmm. Is, is that true for you? That, that that wall's disappearing? I would say so. I think one thing, you know, and I guess this kind of goes back to your point of like, you know, do you feel like that's that's true anymore about, you know, like if you were to, you know, fully know me, then he would reject me.

I would say there are some things that I've noticed with relationships where no one person can be everything that you need. Right. Um, my husband has helped me in so many ways, but he has really struggled to understand mental health, where a lot of times he, you know, and sometimes it comes from our own judgments against ourselves and stuff, but, but there are times where like, you know, if, if that person has developed a certain level of resilience and they see the world [00:54:00] through a healed lens, It's hard for them to connect to my lens where, where I am.

So like, they'll be like, well, you just need to do this. Well, you just need to do that, and then it'll be fixed and you just need to, you know, my, my husband will just be like, you know, we'll just focus on the positive and, and you won't have these thoughts. And I'm like, well, it's a little bit different than that.

You know, like it's, it's a lot deeper, you know? And I try to explain some about mental health and trauma. And so there are times where like, you know, he, he may not, and also to protect him, you know, because sometimes our loved ones, this was the trouble I had with my parents growing up. They had already lost a son to, to addiction and, you know, maybe he was also trying to die by suicide.

We don't fully know. But he was always in and out of these things. And I've come to realize that he had a lot of depression that I didn't realize. And so I'm like, you know, was it an attempt? Did he actually d mean to, to do it? And yeah. Um, and I, I won't fully know, but you know, I think there's, [00:55:00] there's just, I don't know.

Um, I lost my train of thought there, but, um, but yeah, so like the, with my husband and with other relationships, I realized like, you know, my therapist can learn about me on this deeper level because she's an unbiased third party that's not going to, I'm not gonna feel like some ki some kind of way about telling her she's not gonna pass judgment.

She's not gonna pass judgment. Right. And she's, she's not gonna think of me different and she's not gonna be scared or, you know, anything like that if I share these certain things. Um, and then there are certain friends, you know, so I have some really, you know, good, uh, Like friendships that I can go to them and talk to them about certain things and maybe I don't share that, share all of that with my husband because my husband would handle it different and he would struggle with those kind of things, um, or wouldn't be able to be fully there for me, you know, for that.

And so I go to other people for that. And that's, you know, that's the [00:56:00] importance of a network. You, you never want all of. And that's what my husband was for a little while. He was my only person. I was always just going to him. And then that becomes toxic because then you know, that person, they can't be or everything and you're just gonna suck him dry, you know, like Right.

Cuz they're, they're not meant to be. You're everything. And they're not perfect. And you're not perfect. And we need different kinds of relationships. And so, like I started developing, but I've learned a lot through my relationship with him and through working with my therapist, I was like, this is what I need of a support network and these are the kind of people that I need in my life.

And so I started to develop, you know, good healthy female friendships and good, healthy, you know, co-ed friendships and um, you know, like married relationships and professional relationships and you know, and then my relationship with my husband can be my relationship with my husband. And so do I think if one person knew absolutely everything about me, that they would absolutely love every part of [00:57:00] me.

You know, like, no, cuz we make mistakes and I think, you know, it's, it's humanness, but you know, that's why we need each other for different things and on different levels. You know, some people can take a lot of me and I think I used to really struggle with like being enough and being, or being too much. I was, I was really struggling a lot with that being enough or being too much for people.

And so I realized though that with some relationships, some people can handle, handle a lot of me, and, you know, be my best friend and we can talk all the time, and they're totally chill with that. And then there are other people that they can only maybe handle me, handle me, you know, for like a, a shorter time.

And that's okay, because I can also only handle certain people for a certain amount of time. You know, like, that's, that's, I hear you. Yeah. That's just normal. Like if I, yeah, if I'm with certain personalities, I'm gonna feel so drained and so tired, I can only handle so much of that kind of personality.

Right. But, you know, there are other people where I'm like, I could be with you all day and just, you know, I would feel great. Just listen. Yeah. [00:58:00] Yeah. Just hang out with you. So, you know, I, I think realizing that it's okay to do that with yourself and with other people. Right. And for other people to do that with you.

And it's. It's safe to be that way. Um, and it's normal to be that way. And, and trying to, you know, it's weird because this is something that if you have good, you know, normal, healthy development, these are things that you, you learn without realizing that you're learning them. But when you have trauma and, you know, deal with certain things and it's not done at those early stages, you have to learn it as an adult.

And it feels, it's like very strange. Like, it's to my husband, he's like, well, of course everybody's different, you know, it's okay if I don't like that person. And me, I'm like, well, they have to like me and I have to like them, and we have to, you know, like it has to be this way. And he's like, no, if you don't like them, don't spend time with them.

You know, like it's, it's okay to not like people, to like certain people, you know, you don't have to try to be a chameleon and fit in everybody's [00:59:00] box. But that's what I thought. I, that's, that's the way my brain was trained, which is what you had to do. Yeah. That's what, that's what it was trying to do to find safety.

And then you have to. You have to find that safety with yourself and you know, that self-love, and I know self-love gets used way too much in a lot of weird context nowadays, but like, really learning to love yourself and accept yourself and, you know, learn who you are and what's best for you, and accept that person, you know, like that's really the core of healing from, uh, depression and anxiety and especially suicidal ideation or attempts.

So, wow. It's really good, powerful stuff there. Um, but you know, one thing you were talking about, you know, as you were, you were telling your husband everything that's going on with you, um, and you, your, your biggest fear is pushing somebody away. I mean, you and, and then being [01:00:00] alone again. Um, or someone not liking you or loving you because of your struggles with what you're going through.

Yeah. And I'm sure there's a lot of listeners out there that's feeling the same way, and they're probably really tuned in right now. So we're gonna hear what Kay Bella says about this. So what did, did you at any point think that, you know, I'm just gonna share it all with him and in, if he leaves, he leaves, if he doesn't want to hear it, he doesn't hear it, he walks away.

Did you, did you get to that point or did, I mean, were you, how did you handle that? What did you, what did you do? What was your, what was your formula to, to get all this out there, to see how on board he was with loving you? Hmm. Um, I don't know. It, I think it's kind of challenging. I think there's, you knew you had to tell him.

Yeah. I mean, at different points we, we definitely had those heart to hearts. Right. Sometimes he, you know, sometimes he didn't take it well, and [01:01:00] sometimes he did. And, um, yeah, I, I, I don't know. I think, um, I think at different points there were certain things that, and again, I think it's hard because as when you love somebody, you, you wanna protect them to a certain level.

They don't need to know everything. Right. You know, and so, like, especially when it comes to suicide and attempts, this person loves you so deeply and, and wholly and just, you know, and, and they're your best friend and you're telling them that, that you want to end it, you know, like, so it is something that I would say there.

There's certain things that I, I've been like, you know, so he knows a lot about things, but I think. It just kind of comes out at different times, you know, when it needed to come out. And I, that's what I meant. I mean, he knows you told him about your struggles, you told [01:02:00] him about your challenges. Yeah. Some of the things that you would feel that, you know, otherwise you wouldn't fit if he didn't like it.

Yeah. Um, and and you shared it all with him. Yeah. And there were, you know, there were things where like, you know, we, we would have a discussion and, and a lot of it was, you know, this is what happened, this is how I'm feeling. And he wouldn't get it. But I was like, it's okay. You don't have to understand. You don't have to get it.

And I think it, it helped that I understood. Um, because, and then, you know, like, I don't know, being a a therapist was really helpful actually. It was very empowering to get my own education. I think, you know, for any attempt survivor, it's getting your own education. Because when you understand yourself, then it, it makes a lot more sense.

And then, you know, you can try to communicate that with others. And so with my husband, it was like, I'm feeling this way, this is what I'm struggling with. And he would be like, well, why don't you just do this and, you know, just deal with it this way. And I would be like, I know that's what you're saying.

[01:03:00] And I know that that's like a healthy brain, how they would deal with it, but I said, this is, this is what I need to do. And it was, it was very, very hard because at times he's like, I don't think you really need to do that. And I'm like, I do. I do. And I can't tell you why, but I do. Right. Um, and so like, I didn't always let him into the severity, but I, I always tried to keep him up to date on what I was doing about it.

And so I'd be like, I got to a really dark place this weekend. Um, I need to start going to see my therapist again. Right. Um, my drinking's gotten pretty bad and I just feel like, you know, like it's, it's not, it's not going so well, so, you know, like, I'm just gonna not drink anymore. Um Right. And so, like, I would have those kind of conversations, but, um, and, and he was, he was along for it.

And I think the, the hard thing is at times, You know, I'll be very honest. There are, there were times where it's like, he, he was like, I don't know if I can keep doing this. And that's part of why I was like, I need to figure this [01:04:00] out because this man loves me so much, but I'm hurting him. Um, and because I'm struggling.

Right. And so it kept me very, very, um, very much pressing into my own, uh, support because I was like, I don't wanna lose this amazing person who does, he loves me. And, and I knew that his leaving me wouldn't be because he didn't love me. It would be because he loved me so much and I was hurting, you know?

And, and he didn't know how to help me. Right. And he just felt like he, you know, he, he just didn't know what he could do anymore. And so it's, it's very, it was very different. So it was like, you know, so I pressed into, I absolutely need to get, I need to get through this. I need to figure this out. I need to stop being this way so that I can be.

The person that he sees me as and the person I, I know it's somewhere deep inside, but I don't know how to get to it. So I, but I had to press into my own recovery because I knew that I, and that's the beauty of a good [01:05:00] support network too, is like, you know, they're able to, to see those things and, and, you know, it calls you to be that person that you are capable of being, so, right.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, a couple quick questions for you before we close out. Sure. Yeah. One of the, one of the things you talked about was when you woke up the next day, you were mad that you woke up,

but you, you just, you just wanted the pain to go away. You wanted the hurt to go away. How did you think about it when you, you woke up and then realized that, you know, you may have almost died or you almost died? Um, I still wanted to die. Uh, I, I didn't feel any different. I think sometimes, like what I've heard is like, oh, I attempted and then I regretted it.

I, [01:06:00] I regret it now because I'm in a healthier state. Um, like that's what I was getting at. You know, now that you're in this healthy state, now that I'm in this healthy state, yeah, I, you know, like I'm very glad that it didn't work and that I didn't, you know, it didn't happen. But, um, but yeah, at that time, you know, like I, yeah, I was, I was very, I was angry because, like you said, I just wanted, I wanted the pain to stop and I wanted my, my brain to just calm down and just to actually rest, right?

I just wanted to rest. That's all I wanted, right. Throughout all of it was just like, I just needed my mi mind to rest, and it's like, it won't, so, but yeah. Now looking back, I'm like, You know, oh, living isn't so bad, you know? Right. It's a, it's actually a pretty nice, beautiful thing from a healed state of mind.

But I, you know, when you're out of options and you've tried everything, you know, like I tried everything. I tried, you know, meditation, nutrition, fitness, you know, coaching, counseling, um, you know, like, you name it, I had [01:07:00] tried it, um, to try to, to get over my mental health and people, you know, there's also stuff about like, well, you know, don't focus on the problem, you know, focus on, you know, the resilience factors kind of true.

But at the same time, when you know that there's a problem, there's a problem. It's kind of like trying to ignore the fact that your leg is like severed off. You know, like it's, oh, well focus on your healthy arm and you won't feel the pain of your severed leg. It's like, no, my leg is severed. You know, like, it just because I focus on my healed arm doesn't make that go away.

And I think that's something that like, You need to stop the bleeding. You need to, you need to get to the source and you need to heal from the root and figure out what that root is. And I am so glad that I never stopped looking for the root and for finding that true healing from a deeper level. Um, and, you know, that's, that, you know, that's, that's healing is, is actually getting to the root of it.

But yeah, you [01:08:00] can't, you can't just always, you know, and I tried so many times and there is something to be said for building neurological pathways from. Redirecting your brain to positive, um, things. So you can definitely, and I did that a lot. I had to, you know, you journal, I had all these, you know, it's flooding yourself with these new healthy things, um, which I'll get into in the next part as well.

But like, you know, that's, you do have to heal from the source. You have to figure out what that source is, and it, it doesn't come easy and a lot of people tell you it's not there and to ignore it and to, you know, do what they're doing, you know, whether that's drinking or working or, you know, you know, even having kids to like ignore the fact that, you know, they're, they're dealing with their own stuff, but like, you know, we all try these different things.

All of these, you know, for me it was, I call 'em highs. I think everybody tries to chase these highs to ignore the pain and to pretend that the pain doesn't exist or, you know, just to cope with the pain sometimes. Um, and we're all just trying to [01:09:00] figure it out from the best place that we know how. But um, but yeah, we have to actually get to the root to get that healing.

Absolutely. Last question. Yeah. I first, kudos to your husband. Kudos to you for, for what you're doing now and part two of the podcast, it's gonna be great. Um, but the listeners out there know that, you know, you're, you're an attempt survivor and if you were to share one thing with someone that is thinking about taking their life, if you were to share one thing with the listeners out there today, what would you tell them to change their mind?

Um, I'm gonna try not to get emotional, um, but just don't give up. Um, gosh, I wanted to give up so many times, but there is hope and there is [01:10:00] healing and. There are ways out of the state of mind that you're in right now. And I know it feels like this is the best option and the only option. And you know, you've tried a million other things and trust me, I've tried a million other things and you know, I've been in those places.

But just don't give up. Just it. You'll figure it out. You'll find it. You know, there's, there's a beauty in, in who we are. Um, I have, I've come to see and learn and, and love my beauty. You know, there's, we are, we are deeply emotional, sensitive, gentle, kind, beautiful people and, and we just love so deeply and we hurt so [01:11:00] deeply.

And a lot of people will see that as a bad thing, but it's not. There's, you know, there's, there's so much good within each of us, and, you know, and you miss out on that if you just, if you, if you let go. Um, there's, yeah, there's just, just don't give up. And when you get there, you, you'll be glad you didn't give up and you'll be glad you kept fighting through.

But yeah, you are, you are loved. You, you have the ability, you have everything within you that you need. Um, you just have to learn how to use it. Yeah, well said. Thank you. Um, I can't even begin to think or imagine how [01:12:00] tough it was or it is for someone else out there, but I think your, your words of inspiration from someone that has experienced, um, an attempt, um, it's gonna have a huge impact.

So thank you very much. I appreciate you. I really do. And yes, it is emotional. , sometimes it's, it's even when you see someone starting to get emotional telling their story or sharing their story, it's, it's hard to keep it together yourself sometimes. But, uh, you know, thank, thank you so much for, for that great closure, um, to this part.

So thank you, listeners. There you have it. Kay Bella, a survivor from Attempt is sharing her story and her wisdom of, of her journey. And, , so I want to, I want to thank you Kay, for, for being part of this podcast today. And, stay tuned. Folks, as we come back for part two, you're gonna hear Kay's journey , of hope.

You know, what she's doing today and how [01:13:00] she's, how she's continus to navigate through this and how she is continuing successfully. And we're gonna talk all about that. So I wanna send a special thanks out to all of the listeners out there listening to our podcast. Keep. Keep following us and listening and to, , special thanks to Four Corner Strategies for their work and effort to, to edit and post these podcasts on a regular basis for us.

Cal's Hope is a 5 0 1 three nonprofit, and we provide scholarships through donations. So you can follow us up, follow us on Cal's hope.com, and to follow us on the podcast and for reaching out for any, , public speaking or story sharing, you can reach me on milton dennis.org and, , follow us and stay tuned for the next podcast.

So as we close, as always, stay positive, make today amazing. Thank you. [01:14:00]