**Trigger Warning** This piece discusses suicide and suicidal ideation, and some people might find it disturbing. If you or someone you know is suicidal, please, contact your physician, go to your local ER, or call the suicide prevention hotline in your country. For the United States call or text the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
This podcast is lovingly dedicated to individuals grappling with substance abuse, mental health challenges, and thoughts of suicide. Through this series, Matt candidly recounts his own struggles with addiction and how it steered him towards a harrowing brush with suicide. But more than a tale of hardship, this is a story of resilience and hope.
Join us in our upcoming Part 2, where Matt celebrates two decades of sobriety and shares his transformative journey towards mental well-being and a renewed zest for life.
Visit CalsHope.com | Call or Text 988 for confidential mental health and suicidal ideation support
**Trigger Warning** This piece discusses suicide and suicidal ideation, and some people might find it disturbing. If you or someone you know is suicidal, please, contact your physician, go to your local ER, or call the suicide prevention hotline in your country. For the United States call or text the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
This podcast is lovingly dedicated to individuals grappling with substance abuse, mental health challenges, and thoughts of suicide. Through this series, Matt candidly recounts his own struggles with addiction and how it steered him towards a harrowing brush with suicide. But more than a tale of hardship, this is a story of resilience and hope.
Join us in our upcoming Part 2, where Matt celebrates two decades of sobriety and shares his transformative journey towards mental well-being and a renewed zest for life.
Visit CalsHope.com | Call or Text 988 for confidential mental health and suicidal ideation support
Matt's Journey: Part One
===
Milton: [00:00:00] Hello, folks. Thanks for joining us. I'm Milton Dennis, mental health speaker, suicide prevention advocate and author. And today we're going to share with you a podcast about dealing with the struggles of alcohol and drug abuse. And this podcast, we're going to dedicate to everyone out there that's struggling and to let them know.
That you're not alone and there is hope part one of this podcast will share the journey of Matt who is has gone through the stages of Drugs and alcohol and recovery and in part two, he'll share his journey of hope so Matt. Thank you for joining us
Matt: Well thank you for having
Milton: me Milt. Oh great, um, it's a nice fall day here in Mount Holly Springs, PA and a little bit of chill in the air and uh, we really appreciate you coming down because this is a, this is a message that really needs to get shared with a lot of people and I think um, you know, your story and your journey is going to really help them understand that what they're going [00:01:00] through, um, they're not alone, they're not unique.
Um, we all, we all deal with it and their, their struggles are real, uh, but there, there is hope. Um, that's, that's one of the things that's most important. Um, so what I would like you to do, um, if you could, uh, I know you said that your, your journey began, uh, days you're 14 years old. So um, take us back to 1977.
Tell us what you were experiencing, what you were going through, and what led you to the, uh, that time in your life that, uh, that, that caused you to turn towards drugs and alcohol.
Matt: I think I was trying to cope. Uh, I, I wanted to fit in. I felt like I didn't fit in. I always felt like an outsider. And my family life was quite chaotic.
At fourteen, there were, there were five children being raised by my father. [00:02:00] My mother had left, but she would come back periodically, like almost every day. And just raise hell, cause trouble. She was a very dysfunctional person. She was chaotic. And, I was looking for an escape. And I found it by smoking pot.
I used to love to take my dog out into the cornfields and the fields where the creeks were and smoke pot and just get high and spend time with my dog.
Milton: Yeah, now how often, how often did you, did you get high? I mean, I know when I was, it was, it was later in my, my, um, twenties when, I mean, I got high when I was young, but in my twenties, I, um, How did I actually get up in the morning and, and kind of take a hit to start my day off because I just needed that, that kicker to help take that edge off.
What, what was your,
Matt: [00:03:00] I would say every opportunity I was presented, I was, I would get high. When I turned 15, I got a job washing dishes and put money in my pocket and I was smoking every day then. Cause I could afford to buy a pot.
Milton: So what happened after 14? What, what led you to that next level and the next level and the next
Matt: level?
Um, I think it was just trying to find greater levels of escape. And that was the first time I noticed, uh, suicidal ideation, just wanting to be dead. It might have been induced by the marijuana, marijuana psychosis, I don't know. Uh, I brought it up to the first psychiatrist I ever saw in my 20s. That, uh, I would have thoughts of wanting to be dead as a teenage boy.
And he explained to me that that wasn't uncommon for teenage boys. It didn't make me feel any better.
Milton: It's not the kind of normal teenage life you want to hear. You know, [00:04:00] it's, yeah, you hear it a lot, but it's not normal. It is,
Matt: uh, uh, I changed high schools in 10th grade. I think that... It fueled that feeling of being an outsider, not fitting in.
And I did find friends that we would smoke pot and drink beer. And, uh, gradually I started doing other drugs. By the time I was 15, 16. By the time I was 17, I was in high school. Uh, as a senior in high school. I graduated when I was 17. But alcohol became my drug of choice and I found ways to get alcohol.
As a 17 year old growing up in York,
Milton: Pennsylvania.
And how often do you, did you consume alcohol? Was this something that controlled your life? Did you start in the morning or was it just in the evening? Or was it at parties or what
Matt: was your... Uh, sometimes I would drink before school. Sometimes I drank in school. Sometimes I drank after school. [00:05:00] Certainly on the weekends.
Still smoking pot, but... Alcohol became my drug of choice by the time I was 17.
Milton: How did you get through school drinking alcohol? How did you not get caught? I don't know. You don't know?
Matt: The school I went to, there was a lot of drug use. Smuggled vodka, drinking it before gym class, smuggled it in my gym bag.
Okay. Did a lot of drugs. Angel dust and acid, cocaine, crystal meth, speeders and downers.
Milton: Wow. So you needed a crutch to get you through day to day. I needed something. Yeah. How did you manage to graduate high school with... I
Matt: graduated with a D average.
Milton: With a D average, so you just skated through.
Matt: I did as little as possible.
Yeah.
Milton: But you graduated. I graduated high school. You graduated high school. [00:06:00] Alright. What, what after that, what, uh, where did you go after high
Matt: school? I was, uh, when I signed up, I signed up for the Navy and uh, I scored very high on their test. I'm not sure, uh, not sure why. Well, I do know why I had a Catholic education up to ninth grade and I think a lot of that sunk in and that's what carried me through high school.
And I scored very high on what, what the, the, I don't know if they still call it that, but it's called the ASVAB test. Okay. And, uh, I, I did very well on that test, and I was, they, because I had, uh, I, they, they discovered, I guess I told them, I signed up to join the Coast Guard, and I told them I smoked pot, and they said, we don't want you, try the Navy.
So, so I tried the Navy and they knew I smoked pot. They said you can do anything except submarines or corpsmen. I chose Navy supply. [00:07:00]
Milton: Did you think that joining the service was going to help you get away from the drugs and alcohol?
Matt: No. I, I went into the service to get money for college. Okay. That's why I joined the service, to get money for college.
Milton: Okay. And have a regular income to support. Whatever habit you had at the time.
Matt: I did a lot of drinking in the Navy. Yeah. You know, water finds its level, drunks will find their drugs. Yeah,
Milton: yeah. Now, you didn't do any drugs when you were in the Navy? I sure did. Okay. Don't they do, well, drug and alcohol testing?
It
Matt: was, uh, the first two years, they didn't do a lot of testing. Okay. And then there was a big accident on the forestall. And, uh, there was some crashes. And some people died and they tested the sailors that were killed and they found they had THC in their system. And they, uh, That's when the Navy started testing, [00:08:00] about 82, 83.
And I just curtailed my use
Milton: of POT. To work around the testing. Yes.
Matt: And ACID, we were told, the rumor was ACID LSD didn't show up on, Drug tests. So we can, I continue to use LSD and drink
Milton: heavily. I didn't know that.
Matt: I don't know if it's different today or
Milton: not. Yeah. Cause I think now they even, they even test for blockers.
So like if you're drinking something like the tea or whatever it is to see if, you know, to block the THC in your urine or blood. Um, they're actually testing for that now. So, I know. Back when I was at work, it was, we, we were getting tested, which I didn't have nothing to worry about at that time. But, um, one of my coworkers was scared to death.
So he's drinking this gallons of tea on the way down 495. We had to ride in the [00:09:00] slow lane so that he could open up the door. Urinate because he was drinking so much tea, but that was the purpose of it was to flush you out But when we got there to the testing facility in DC the first thing they said, okay, we're not testing for the drug today We're testing for the blockers and Of course he got off positive but uh I don't know how true that is, but, uh, you know, I've never seen any of the test results, but that's the story I heard.
So how did you manage to get through the military? How long were you in the military? I was in the Navy for four
Matt: years.
Milton: Four years? Okay, so you did your full, full term on that. Yeah, I got out with an honorable discharge. Honorable discharge. Great. And where'd you go from there? I
Matt: went to college. I got accepted to Penn State as a provisional student.
And then I transitioned from provisional to a
Milton: regular student. So it sounds to me like you're, you're, even though you were struggling with a lot, you were still highly [00:10:00] functioning. Yes.
Matt: I think that's a good way to put it. I was functioning.
Milton: Yeah. You know, cause I, you know, you, you see, um, even in the construction industry, there's a lot of high functioning alcoholics, which, you know, they'll, They might nip during the day a little bit here and there, but they'll work and they're great workers, great performers, great craftsmen, but then as soon as that four o'clock bell rings, they're in the bar and they're in the bar till closing time.
And, you know, that's, it's high functioning. And from what it sounds like, you know, if you had the ability to go and graduate high school, go into the, the, Navy? Navy, yeah. For four years, and then go to college that you were able to manage this to the point that kept you high functioning. There
Matt: was, uh, I think I was 20 years old, and I laid my motorcycle down, and I cut up my leg when I was in the Navy.
And I had to go, uh, get it stitched up, and the corpsman that stitched me reported me as being [00:11:00] very drunk. And I got back to my command, and I was identified as having a, an alcohol problem, and I went to an alcohol awareness class. There were about eight of us. Eight different people that were identified through various levels of the command as having alcohol problems.
But I couldn't relate. I didn't want to relate. I certainly wasn't ready to stop jerking. But I couldn't relate to what the message was being portrayed.
Milton: Right. Was there any time during all of this that, that you felt like you got a wake up call? No. No, you were oblivious
Matt: to all of it? I just, I was having fun.
You was having fun? It was all in the name of fun. Yeah. I, I passed out in some gutters overseas, literally on the sidewalk in Naples, Italy. St. Thomas, St. Croix, Benidorm, Spain. Literally passing out on the sidewalks.
Milton: Drunk? Drunk. Wow. [00:12:00] Wow. Wow. You had talked about thoughts of suicide. Yes. When did that start?
Matt: When I was in my
Milton: teens. How did you feel being in the service? Having a weapon?
Matt: I, I, I wasn't suicidal. I didn't have suicidal ideation that I can recall being in the service. Okay. I don't recall that.
Milton: And you just um... You just didn't want to be around no more, or what was, what thought was going through your mind?
Before,
Matt: I'm not following you, man.
Milton: And when you first started having thoughts of suicide?
Matt: Oh, it just, I just didn't want to be around. Yeah. Yeah, it's just life was
Milton: too hard. What made you think that way? Not fitting
Matt: in, struggling. And you,
Milton: you talked a lot, uh, talk to me earlier a [00:13:00] little bit about your childhood.
what, what role do you think that played in the struggles that you encountered?
Matt: I think it, uh, was influential. It was, uh, it was a traumatic childhood. My mother, uh, I have, obviously, I have two parents. My father was an alcoholic also. Right. And he was the good parent. But it's a great story involving my father, and hopefully we can talk about it more in depth later.
Right. But I 12 stepped him into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, and then I relapsed, and he 12 stepped me back into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. We were, we were good drinking buddies, and then after that we were just good friends and sobriety.
Milton: Right. Okay. Well, that's, that's a great part to share on the second part
Matt: there.
But, uh, with my mother, she was, she was abusive, uh, verbal abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse. And I, she had five kids. I don't know why she didn't seem to [00:14:00] like kids too much, but
Milton: she had five. She had five of them. Right. And you know, a lot of, I relate to a lot of that and that's why I appreciate you talking about that part because I, I know how.
Um, that, that part about feeling alone with a mother that, that just, you felt like don't love you. Don't care about. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
Matt: no, there were two things that I, I, I'd been thinking about this maybe the last couple of months. There were two things I wanted from her. I want it to be wanted and I wanted her to stop embarrassing me.
Milton: I hear you. I hear you. One of the, one of the things, and I'm not trying to jump on your story by any means, but just to, you know, let the listeners know why this means so much to me. Um, you know, when, after my father died by suicide, um, the reason that we were not with my mother is because of her alcohol abuse.
And the Hartford County court [00:15:00] system had given my mother one year, a choice of one year sobriety or lose custody of her children permanently. And she could not beat her battle with alcohol, and she lost custody of us. So that, that um, that stuck with me all the way up until her deathbed, which she died from the alcohol abuse, which I consider another suicide.
Uh, it's not recorded as a suicide. But um, to, to know that I never really got an answer of, of why. Why she couldn't stop. I've never dealt with addiction to alcohol. You know, when it was come, when it come time for me to stop, I stopped. And that was on my 21st birthday. Um, in 1985, on a Saturday, June 15th, I woke up on my 21st birthday.
My pockets were turned inside out. I was in a house. I didn't know where I was. People, I didn't even know who they were. [00:16:00] And I walked outside and I looked up to God and I said, what the heck am I doing? I'm becoming that monster. I said, I would never be. And I dropped everything. Um, some people can't do that.
Some people cannot just walk away from it. I don't know if that's just a stronger will or if it's not necessarily an addiction to them. I don't
Matt: know. Well, uh, the latest numbers I heard, 8 percent of the population are afflicted with alcoholism. I happen to be one of the eight. Okay. I'm bodily and mentally different than other people when it comes to ingesting alcohol.
And there comes a time, I'm going to quote from the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, there comes a time when I can't differentiate the truth from the false. I think that's what happened
Milton: to your mother. Right. Um, and that But I'll never understand that, you know, as
Matt: a child. If you're not an alcoholic, you don't understand it.
Most [00:17:00] people will have two drinks and say, I've had enough. Right. The alcoholic is just getting started at two. Two needs four, four needs six, seven, eight. Because we're always chasing the buzz. If two gives me a good feeling, three must be better. And if three gives me a feeling, then four must be even a better, it must be an even better feeling.
Milton: That's in, in that, in comparison to that dopamine level of when you get excited about something that makes you feel good. Like a, you know, the, the buzz from alcohol, the buzz from drugs, or, you know, the text, or the emails, or the phone calls, or whatever it might be. Once you, or your body starts to release that dopamine level, but when that all wears off, you're, you're back to being bummed out.
How did you not get bond out? Because that's some of the things I struggled with when I was drinking to suppress the pain, taking drugs to suppress the pain. How did you, [00:18:00] how did you know to separate that, that pain, the alcohol and the, the, the thoughts of not wanting to be here no more. How did you separate that?
Matt: I, I don't know that I did, uh. I was, after, after the Navy, I went to college and, uh, my first year I was quite successful. And then my second year I started drinking more. By my third year I was on the verge of failing out. And, uh, I was on the verge of losing my job. I had to work full time while I was in college full time because I had to pay for my alcohol.
Right. And, uh, I was doing things. that weren't sustainable, physically and mentally. I couldn't sustain it. And then, I was doing things like, uh, frequenting places and taking women home that I normally wouldn't. And, uh, I checked into my first rehab. I was either 26 or 27. And I just, I just realized my life couldn't go on the [00:19:00] way it was going.
I, I had periods. It was, this was a valid thought that I had, an active thought. I remember driving home last night. I could have drank more. And I, I don't know why. It came to me many years later. I was in an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting in California. And this fellow was talking about blacking out.
Drinking to black out. And that's what I did. Period. I was drinking to blackout and what was so bad in my life that I had to erase it? What was, and I think it was the, the anger I had towards the familiar, the family situation. I think that I was a very angry person because of that. And, uh, just loss of relationships, loss of position.
Milton: You, you talked a little bit about that before, and if you want to share [00:20:00] some of that, you can, that'd be great, but, uh, what, um, I know the, I know the family situation caused you pain, and that steered you towards the drinking. Then you talked about, uh, you know, loss of position in relationships. Uh, how did that steer you towards the pain, and did you feel like you got any relief when you, when you drank after that?
That was many years ago. , ,
Matt: uh, there was, there was a woman I was in love with when I was in my mid twenties. And, uh, my drinking caused that to end my behavior and my selfishness and the relationship caused the relationship then she was a wonderful woman, and it ended right, and I was, I, I was severely depressed, wanting to die at the end of that.
Milton: The way you describe that makes me feel like you see that now, but it's after the fact. [00:21:00] When you talk about how good of a woman she was. I mean, did you think she was that good of a woman the whole time? I found
Matt: many faults with her at the time. At the time? Yeah, but looking back I can say that was probably the best thing that ever happened to me up to that point in my life.
Milton: Right, right. And that's what I was getting at. A lot of times we, we, we don't see, and I'll probably get this wrong, we don't see the forest for the trees, and the same thing with a relationship, you know, we don't really focus on how great it is until it's gone, until it's gone, until it's gone.
Matt: I drank heavily after that, very heavily.
Milton: People were worried about me.
Because you drank heavily. 'cause you felt I
Matt: drank more heavily than I was because I was depressed. Mourning the loss of the relationship, mourning the loss of this woman being in my life [00:22:00]
Milton: and you. But if, if the alcohol was the biggest part of you losing that, why would you turn back to it? I like the effect of alcohol, right?
How it, like a drug, calmed you down.
Matt: Alcoholics drink for effect. Yeah. I didn't start drinking beer because I liked it. Right. Yeah, no, I agree with you there. When I was a little kid, my father used to drink beer. Uh, mostly on the weekends. And I mean, when I was like five or six. And I used to ask him, Hey, do you need a beer?
Do you need a beer? Are you ready for a beer? Because whenever I got him a beer, I was allowed a sip, but I always took two or three sips and I hated the taste of it. I remember hating the taste of it, but I drank it anyway. I remember my first, my first buzz. I was seven years old. I had two and a half glasses of [00:23:00] red wine on Thanksgiving.
It was like four o'clock in the afternoon. It was cloudy outside. We were in our living room. I remember this specifically and I remember the feeling. You know, so how many people can go back that far and remember their first alcoholic buzz? Hmm,
Milton: yeah. At seven years old. At seven. Wow. I was, uh, I was eleven when I had my first buzz.
But, you know, that was stealing alcohol out of the refrigerator and going in the woods and partying. Now, you know, we talked a little bit about this before the podcast started, but, um, Yeah, I think, I think we hit some good points. How the,
like I would, I would drink and get high to the point that I would pass out so I didn't get to that bottom. Did you ever drink to the point that if you stopped or you got really, you started to get real depressed or did you just drink till you passed [00:24:00] out?
Matt: Uh, I certainly drank till I blacked out. I drank till I passed out.
Uh, I, I don't. I don't know that I was really worried about the depression until I think I was 26 or 27 when I checked into my first rehab. And, uh, that, that was a depressive period. Leading up to that.
Milton: And why did you check in?
Matt: Things in my life were out of control. I just couldn't go on living the way I was living. You realized that. I was working full time. I was going to school full time. I was on the verge of failing out of college. It was important that I graduate college. I was drinking full time.
And I, it started out, like, in college, I did pretty good the first year. I did better the second year. By the third year, maybe in the half of the second year, I, um, [00:25:00] I started drinking, you know, it would be like Friday, Saturday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Wednesday, and then throw in a Monday.
And also in that, I think I was 25 maybe. Uh, I got my first DUI. I've had three of them, but I got my first one. I was crossing the bridge from Philadelphia to New Jersey. From the, I believe it was the Walt Whitman Bridge, I was on my way to Atlantic City, drunk, been drinking. Then I decided to go to Atlantic City, so I was drinking the whole way from York to Philadelphia.
I got pulled over by the bridge
Milton: police. Luckily you got pulled over. I mean, you don't want to get caught, but, you know, I mean, to consume alcohol like that and be driving. I mean, that's, I mean, you can look back now and see. What do you think when you look back now, while I'm saying that, when you look back at [00:26:00] some of the close calls, some of the risks you took, what do you think about?
Matt: I'm not the same man I was. Yeah. Well, by far, yeah. I try not to dwell on the past. Right. I'm going to quote Alcoholics Anonymous again. We don't shut the door on the past, nor wish to
Milton: dwell on it. That's a great quote. But how do you feel about Gratitude, how, how grateful are you for the knowledge of those closed calls where you can say, wow, I'm glad that didn't happen, or I'm glad I got caught before anything happened.
Do you ever think about that, or?
Matt: No, I don't think I do, no.
Milton: No? No. Okay.
Matt: I, I, I've wrecked cars, uh, drunk, I've wrecked a couple cars drunk, uh, I've put myself into some really dangerous situations. I guess, I don't really believe in luck, so I can't say I was lucky, but [00:27:00] uh, maybe God or higher power was looking out for me.
Milton: Always. Now, we talked about the alcohol and drug abuse, and we talked about the thoughts of not wanting to be here anymore. Um, when did you take that to the next level? Um,
Matt: my, my, my history with, uh, with that milk is I had thoughts that I had a plan the second time around. I had a plan. The third time around was an attempt at suicide.
That was 20 years ago. It's 20 years ago in December of this year. That's what I'll celebrate my, uh. So sober anniversary,
December 9th of this year will be 20 years without a drink. Good for you. And that's my, my drinking had led me to the point where I didn't want to live anymore. I [00:28:00] was deeming myself a failure. I didn't have enough money to drink myself to death, so I drank. As much as I could, and then when the money was gone, I attempted to check out.
Milton: What, what got you to that level,
Matt: that low? Another loss of position. Okay. And I was, through a business contact, I was flown out to Detroit to interview for a job. It didn't go well. I didn't get the job. I didn't want the job. All I wanted to do was drink. And I drank during the interview, which appeared to be okay, because we met in a hotel bar.
There were four of us, and, uh, I had a couple beers. And on the way back, I remember looking out the window of the airplane. This was just before Thanksgiving, and I'm looking at the houses, and I'm seeing pools in the backyards and fences, and I'm picturing these people living in these houses, the families.
And my [00:29:00] life... Just did not turn out the way I had hoped, and I was going to check out.
Milton: Did you feel like you'd already lost that opportunity for that position? Is that what led up to it? Or... Were you told that you were not getting the position? I didn't want the job. Oh, you
Matt: didn't want the job. It was a sales job.
Right. I didn't, I didn't want the job. They didn't offer me the job. And it seemed like it was the last chance I had.
Milton: So when you were in the airplane looking down on all that, you felt that, you know, that that's where you should be right now.
Matt: Life just wasn't happening the way I had planned, you know, uh, going back, uh, you know, I had, I had some good jobs that I drank at myself out of.
My behavior and my drinking cost me some good jobs. I was a manager with, on a fast track with Caterpillar. Wow. I was a manager with Rider Logistics. Another big one. I cost myself those jobs.
Milton: Yeah.[00:30:00]
And I, I've never experienced it on that level, but I understand where you're coming from. You know, especially for those that are listening. You know, there are so many things, whether if it's drugs and alcohol abuse or if it's our mental health. There's a lot of things that can block. The great things that, you know, the, the beautiful things that we miss out on and we realize later.
And is something like that what you were seeing when you were in the airplane looking down on those houses that you missed out on it because of the life you led? Yes.
Matt: It was the life I led. Right. My alcoholism. I didn't necessarily, I could do it today. Look back and say, yeah, there was some mental health issues going on there.
But at the time, I didn't feel that way. Right. That my mental health was blocking me. I can look back and say, yeah, maybe that's what cost me that job. Some mental health issues. Right. That aren't present
Milton: today. [00:31:00] And are, are you familiar with the ACE scores? No. And that's um, and that's The reason I'm saying that, I'm not trying to diagnose you by any means, I'm not a doctor.
But, uh, the ACE scores is something that I had taken. It's a test of questions one through ten, and it's adverse childhood effects. And these questions one through ten, it was a study done by Kaiser Permanente and, um, CDC. And what they did is they selected 17, 000 San Diegans, white collar college degrees and which is out of the norm.
Usually it's a, you know, blue collar hood or some, some sort of, uh, you know, underprivileged area that they would do, uh, a study like this. I wanted to see why that community is failing, but they, they performed this study with 17 San Diegans, white collar college degrees. And, um, studying these 10 questions, they, um, [00:32:00] they were looking at the childhood adverse childhood effects, which is, you know, abuse, uh, screaming in the household, sexual abuse, uh, crime prison.
I mean, there's so many different things on there, but it's 10 questions. And if you scored four or more, which isn't many, if you scored four or more, you were in comparison with these statistics that they balanced out, you are at high risk for. Um, health conditions or mental health conditions. And it was consistent with all these 17, 000 San Diegans they performed a study on.
And when I took the exam, I scored a 9. I'm like, Why in the hell am I still here? How in the hell am I still here if I scored a nine? But when I took the resilience exam, I was scored extremely high, above, way above average, and I think my resilience is what kept me going through all of that. But as I hear you talking about, you know, your adverse childhood effects that you've had, [00:33:00] I think a lot of those built up to a level of mental health.
I won't disagree with you and you ought to think you ought to check into that one time just because what it is It's that time of development as a child from birth to 18 years old the time development of the I believe the frontal cortex of your brain but um the the part that has you Able to accept a lot of things about life and in and I've got I'm sure I get that all messed up But I'm like I said, I'm not a doctor but I I truly believe that this this This, this exam is real and it, um, it has a lot of great logic to it, but, um, you know, I think, I think rather if it's mental health or whatever it might be, there's, there's something that leads us to seek the, the relief from drugs and alcohol.
I think I was self medicating. Right. And that's, that's exactly what I was getting at. And um, and that's, you know, that's one of the things I was the one was [00:34:00] self medicating because of the pain that I endured. Um, but just like you, I've seen a lot of things that I, I mean, let's put it out there. I kind of just pissed away, you know, I crapped on, I mean, I just really let a lot of things that were great to me slip by.
And, um, is, you know, because of that, that time in my life where I was just, you know, Being me and using, uh, the drugs and alcohol to get through everything. Uh, but also my mental health. You know, there was a lot of times that my mental health impacted a lot of my life. So, when you, um, you talked about the, the attempt and you had a plan, did you tell anybody about it?
Or, is that something that you
Matt: kept to yourself? I kept it to myself. Uh, I said, uh,
What I had, I was living in California. I had a plan to, [00:35:00] uh, uh, run the exhaust into my car. I had a plan, I went to the store and I bought the materials I needed. And I was drinking, I had lost another position. And I relapsed. And I was drinking heavily. Just depression set in, you know, why, why bother going forward?
And, uh, I had enough sense. I was reaching out to people to help. Uh, and I got a hold of, uh, somebody at the, uh, VA hospital in Long Beach. And they put me in, uh, 72 hour hold. And they called my father and he came from Pennsylvania. He flew out from Pennsylvania. My father and brother flew out from Pennsylvania.
And that was the plan. Uh, and I did stop drinking for a short period of time, and I moved back east, and uh, but things got real good real quick, and I didn't stop drinking for [00:36:00] long. I just went back to drinking. I got picked up by a company, Ryder Logistics, and I was making more money than I ever made before.
There was no reason to quit. Quit drinking. To quit drinking. And then when I started working at Ryder, there were a lot of people that worked there that drank like I drank. And it was easy to cover it up. And the bosses were pretty lenient on the expenses report. The expense reports.
Milton: That you would use the expenses of work for entertainment
Matt: or?
Entertainment, strip clubs. Yeah. High end steak houses. Buying cigarettes. Like
Milton: Ryder Logistics down by Old North Point Road in Baltimore?
Matt: Ryder Logistics is all over the country. Okay. Uh, there may be a point, uh, there may be a, a, a facility at, in Baltimore. There, there were, where, where I was working at was a Fela account.
Okay. [00:37:00] Located south of Baltimore.
Milton: Yeah, cause there was, uh, there was a Ryder down in Baltimore and I know a lot of the, um, employees we used to, frequent the facility next door. So, I've seen them over there a lot. I was being close to the same age. I don't know what time in life you got into that, but that was, uh, that was probably, uh, 64, 74, 84, 84, 86.
Matt: I was with Ryder. Oh, maybe late 90s.
Milton: Okay, so that was after
Matt: that time. You're taxing my memory, Milt.
Milton: Yeah, I was actually working for a trucking company right next door to Ryder. And, um, like I said, there was a place that they all, we all frequent in across the street. So, had all the entertainment a young man would really desire or want.
But, um, but anyway, [00:38:00] um. So, did you, uh, you didn't share, you kept it a secret that you were, you were contemplating or, or had a plan for this attempt? Yes, I didn't share it with anybody. Um, did you actually attempt? No. At any
Matt: time? Yes. There was another, a third
Milton: time. And when, tell us about that. That was uh, What, what led up to it?
What got you
Matt: to that point? Flying back from, I, I lost another position. Wow. And uh, Uh, I flew out to Detroit for that job interview for a job I didn't want and a job they weren't going to offer me. And, uh, just flying back and realizing my life had not turned out the way I had planned. So I'm going to check out.
And what I did is, uh, I, I planned, I, I thought I, I had about three weeks worth of money. I needed to buy food, cigarettes, and liquor. And I figured I had about three weeks worth of money in the [00:39:00] bank to do all that, and it ended up being closer to four weeks. But before, uh, I checked out, I was going to go out on a Sunday, and I, I made an attempt like Monday morning at two, three o'clock in the morning.
But that day, the day before I believe it was, I sent a letter to my father telling him I'm checking out. So he got the letter. And, uh, he sent the police to my house. And I was recovering from my attempt. I was not successful. It's, it's difficult to talk about. I'm sure it is. I'm kind of having visions in my head right now of what, what it was like, you know, on the plane.
Right. I have scars on my body from it. Right. I'm not proud of it, but, uh, sharing it maybe will help at least
Milton: one person. That's why you're, that's why you're here today. And that's why you've made it through all of this because your [00:40:00] journey is not over. Um, you know, you have a lot to, a lot to bring to the table and, you know, sharing a story like it's, it's, it's powerful and meaningful, although it's painful.
I mean, I know every time I share my story, how much it hurts. Um, sometimes I don't even think I can get through it. And, uh, you know, the, I, I can't tell you how you feel, but understand. what you're saying. And, um, you know, it's, it's, it's just kind of hard to put into words. I really, I really don't know what to say about it.
Um, now you, uh, you had gone to that, to that extent. And, uh, I don't want to get into too much of the, the recovery part of it, cause that's, you know, the journey of hope, the second part of the podcast. But when you sent, when you sent that letter to your father, did you, did you hope that he would get the letter before [00:41:00] you had?
No, I had
Matt: a plan that he would get it after I was dead, and he got it the day that I made the attempt. Okay. So I made the attempt early in the morning, two, three o'clock, and he got the letter that day and sent it to police. So the police showed up about four o'clock in the afternoon. Which was maybe 13 hours, 14 hours after my
Milton: attempt.
Right. And as you well know, one of the words we don't like to use in a successful or unsuccessful because there's nothing great about it. Um, when you, when you woke up or you came to or you finally realized that, um, your plan did not go through. Yeah. How did you feel?
Matt: I'm, I'm picturing myself in that situation. I know.
Milton: I'm going to be quite honest with you. Some people are, are relieved and they say they did not want to die, but other people say, uh, I was [00:42:00] pissed. I didn't want to be here anymore. I didn't
Matt: want to be here anymore, but my best efforts failed. And I tried,
Milton: right.
I
Matt: tried, uh, cutting my wrists, sitting in the hot tub. So the blood wouldn't clot and it just didn't happen.
Milton: So I really thought this out.
Matt: So I cut it deeper and I. I, sitting in the hot tub, changed the water to make sure it was hot, and it just didn't happen. Right. So I think, when, that, that, that was the beginning of my spiritual awakening.
Milton: Higher power looked out for you.
Matt: Well, okay. Yeah.
Milton: Yeah. Something happened. Something
Matt: happened. Yeah. The police took me to the, to the uh, behavioral observation unit, that's what they were calling it in those days. I don't know what they call it today.
Milton: And how long were you in there? Three days. Just a 72 hour observation?[00:43:00]
Looking back at that now, knowing, knowing what you know now, Mm hmm. How do you feel about that 72 hours? I mean, that's... It
Matt: was hard, 72. For
Milton: you? Yeah. But I mean, but what, what benefit just 72 hours has for somebody that is an attempt survivor? Do you think 72 hours is enough? I'm
Matt: not qualified to
Milton: have an opinion on that.
Okay. I
Matt: appreciate that. They were, they were doctors doing the best they thought they could do.
Milton: Right.
Matt: Yeah. It might have been a money thing. I didn't have any insurance. True.
Milton: You know, there's been some people sitting here in the podcast and I know from, you know, my, uh, my nephew. mY, , my brother, I mean, they, they went to, to get help and they talked about their, their situation and how they felt, but, um, [00:44:00] there was no, they felt there was no need for an observation or that they were at risk.
Um, and then, you know, all the people that sat here in your seat that, you know, have lost a family member talking about their story that, you know, they went in, they was released. And, you know, I know I can't judge the medical professionals opinions on, on what they find out or, or, but it's like, you know, after the fact, it's like, oh my gosh, they would have just kept them.
Same thing about, you know, when my brother called me if I would have just went up there. You know, it's that what if, what if, what if. So I was just wondering how you, how you looked at that when, when you, uh, just had the 72 hours and...
Matt: I never gave it much thought, Bill. Yeah.
Milton: It all worked out. Yeah. And did you ever attempt again after that?
And that's, that's a high statistic that, uh, a high number of people that attempt once never return to attempt [00:45:00] again. That's a high statistic, high number. Which is good. Um, you know, you don't, you don't want them to, to fall back on it. But, um.
Matt: That, that's the depths of my alcoholism. The, the, the, the planning, the suicidal, the, the suicide attempt is the depths of my alcoholism.
I have other mental health issues that are being addressed. Right. And I take care of that with a mental health professional. But it's the depths of the alcoholism that cause it to be that severe. So if I can eliminate the alcohol, then I can eliminate that part of the illness.
Milton: Well said. I understand you there.
In closing here, , I don't want to get too much into the journey of hope, but I want to save that for the second part of the podcast. But if you were to share a message with someone that was experiencing or struggling with something very similar [00:46:00] to you, or you know, what you've dealt with or just anything, and whether if it's alcohol, drugs, the, the ideation of, of suicide ending their life, knowing what you know now and how you've come through it.
What would you share with someone out there? Seek
Matt: help. There's no, there's no embarrassment in it. Find, find a mental health professional that you can trust. I know that, that can be hard. There's a shortage of mental health professionals. Uh, I'm a, in the Veterans Administration healthcare system. And, uh, they, they're attuned, highly attuned to helping veterans with mental health problems.
Doesn't mean they're always successful, but there's a lot of mental health professionals within the Veterans Administration.
Milton: Great. I appreciate you saying that. Um, well, Matt, thank you for sharing your story. It's uh, it's powerful. [00:47:00] As painful as it may be to relive some of this, um, I do feel you on that.
Um, I know, I know how painful it can be for me sometimes, but I appreciate you sharing this, this journey with others because it's going to let a lot of people know that they're not alone. And, um, You know, and folks, I want you to come back to part two here, uh, Matt's going to share his great journey of, uh, of hope.
Uh, he's doing some great things out there today and, uh, you know, he's, he'll be able to share with you, you know, what he's got going on, how he's making a difference, not only his life, but the life of others. So, I want to thank you for listening, and I want to send a special thanks out to Four Corner Strategies for doing the editing of this podcast, and like I said, these podcasts are only, only edited for level and balance, it's real uncut and raw.
And again, I'm Milton Dennis, you can follow me on miltondennis. org, or you can follow me on calshope.com. com . Thank you for listening, and we look forward to seeing you soon. Take care. Bye.[00:48:00]