Matt's Journey: Part Two

**Trigger Warning** This piece discusses suicide and suicidal ideation, and some people might find it disturbing. If you or someone you know is suicidal, please, contact your physician, go to your local ER, or call the suicide prevention hotline in your country. For the United States call or text the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.

Join us in Part Two of  Matt's compelling 20-year journey through adversity, addiction, and ultimately, recovery. Host Milton Dennis, a renowned mental health speaker and author, delves into Matt's transformative experiences with Alcoholics Anonymous, his battles with depression and bipolar disorder, and his inspiring path to finding peace and purpose in helping others. This episode is a beacon of hope, illustrating the power of resilience and the importance of mental health treatment in overcoming life's toughest challenges. Whether you're someone facing similar struggles, supporting a loved one, or simply seeking insight into the journey of recovery, this episode offers valuable perspectives and heartfelt encouragement.

Visit CalsHope.com | Call or Text 988 for confidential mental health and suicidal ideation support

Transcript

Matt's Journey: Part Two
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[00:00:00] Hi folks, welcome back to Surviving Loss, Our Journey of Hope. I'm Milton Dennis, mental health speaker, suicide prevention advocate and author. And this is part two of Matt's journey. In this journey, we'll talk about Matt's journey of hope. Uh, the first part we talked about, uh, his struggles and some of the adversities that he's been through, um, to get through all of this.

And again, this podcast is dedicated to those of you that are struggling to let you know that you're not alone. Um, you can get through this and You know, if, if you, if you feel that you have any, um, any issues or concerns, please reach out to someone, uh, just like Matt said in his closing statement. Get help.

It, it really helps you and, uh, without further ado, Matt, welcome back. Thank you, Bill. Yeah. This, um, this is the part that I, um, I really enjoy getting out to the listeners, that journey of hope. You know, the first part we talked about all the adversities that you [00:01:00] faced, the struggles that you faced, how the, the, the pain and the hardship and the drug and alcohol abuse led you to an attempt.

And, you know, we heard that story. We, we know what you've been through now. From the point of your recovery, uh, when you had what I call my epiphany, you're, you're telling me that yours occurred 20 years ago. Um, uh, since your, your sobriety and your attempt. So you've been recovering for 20 years? I've been in, uh, a recovery program, a 12 step program.

My last 9th, 2003. God bless you. And that was also the day that I went into the hospital. That was the day of my attempt. Attempt. Yes. Okay, so you've been on the road to recovery since then. Yes. How do you feel today? I feel wonderful. And life is a joy. You [00:02:00] had said something to me earlier, and this is the part we can laugh about, but, uh, you know, cause it's so heartwarming, but you had said something to me earlier and I'm getting a little choked up about it, gosh, but you had said something to me earlier about, um, how you look at life now in this, this time of your life, that it's.

Is this what life is about? Is this, is this really how it is? Tell me about that, how did you say it? Is this, this is normal? Right. Say it with a question mark. Is this normal? This is normal? Right. Because I, I had never known normal. I look back now, and even in periods of sobriety, this is my third attempt at sobriety, uh, even at periods, uh, in sobriety.

There was still depression, there were still racing thoughts, preservative thinking, suicidal ideation at times. And this is normal, this is good. [00:03:00] So how does it feel to be 20 years into this normal life? Well, the normal started about 4 years ago. Okay. Uh, I had, I was, up until that time, I was still looking at There was still like a huge identity of my job.

What was my job? What career path was I on? My job was always a big identity for me. And how many digits were on my paycheck? And when I lived in California, how close was my house to the beach? Those are the things that mattered to me. And those are not the things that matter to me today. What matters today is how many people do I have in my life that care about me.

And it's a large number these days. Yeah. And, there was probably a large number in your hard time that cared about you, but you didn't, you didn't calculate that, didn't [00:04:00] equate that, or didn't look at that. I don't know. I was a son of a bitch at times. Right. I could be a mean son of a bitch. I was self centered, self seeking, trying to direct everybody.

And, uh, where's your heart at now? My heart. In what sense? Mel? Well, you said you was a mean SOB before. Where's your heart now? Oh, oh, I, I try to be of service to other people these days. Yeah, well said . And speaking of that, what are, what is Matt doing today? And I know there's a lot you can't disclose here.

Um, and I respect that. So if you, if it's a question you can't answer, just tell me. Pass. But, um, what are you doing today that's not only making a difference in who you are and what you've become, but what are you doing today that's, that's helping others? I am a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I do service work in the organization.

I go [00:05:00] to meetings on a regular basis. I share, make coffee, serve on an intergroup committee. I sponsor people. I have a part time job. And, uh, there's a, there's an elderly lady. She was friends with my father. They lived in the same, uh, elderly apartment building. She's in my father has since passed away. And, uh, she, I take her out to lunch every weekend.

She's 96 and we go out to lunch every Saturday. Good for you. How does that make you feel? I enjoy being of service to other people. That's where I find my fulfillment in life today. Tell me about the first time that you made a difference in, you know, with the work that you're in now, because, you know, I, I, I experienced this myself.

Tell me the first time that you made a difference in someone's, someone else's life and what that felt like to you. Are you talking about in the job? In the, in [00:06:00] the job, in the work that you're doing now. Uh, prior, prior to where I'm working, uh, I'm doing some marketing for an organization that's involved with people in recovery.

But prior to this job, I was a housing coordinator, where I was able to make a difference in people's lives by giving them a home. Wow. We had people coming in off the street, people that would be kicked out of one recovery house. It was managing recovery houses for a non profit organization. Just being able to give people a home made a huge difference.

It's a great feeling. Did it seem like it changed your purpose in life? No, I don't think so. Because my purpose was born before I had the job. Yeah. There you go. Well said on that one. Um, so, What else are you doing in the community? Um, I know I met you at an event and um, You know, I introduced my podcast to everybody at the event, but um, [00:07:00] with the, the education you're picking up, uh, like the QPR, the Question, Persuade, Refer, and information like that, what, uh, what else in your community really, um, what else are you doing in your community that you think is beneficial in really helping others?

One of the things I do is I sponsor other men in Alcoholics Anonymous. I have seven sponsees. I meet with each man for one to two hours a week. And that is quite a commitment. Uh, I have trouble saying no when somebody asks me. It's such an honor and a privilege that somebody asks you to be their sponsor in this program that I have trouble saying no.

Because you know what it's like to need somebody. I, it's, I think I have something to share. I, I take a very fundamental approach to this recovery program I'm in. And it's, uh, that's what's worked in my life, and I share honestly, and I think that's what has attracted people to me, and that they see [00:08:00] how I live, I'm living the program.

Right. Wow, and 20 years is a true testament to that. Yes, yes. I mean, it's, it's not I mean, there are people that make it through it. Yes, absolutely. And that's what the purpose of this podcast is to share with a lot of the listeners that you can get through it, but to sit here and say, you know, not only have I made it past the, the attempt part, but in the sobriety part of it, um, I'm 20 years into this and life is good and I could just, I can see a beam with light.

I mean, I know listeners, you can't see them, but when you, when, when he says that life is good, you can just see the beam of light come out of him that, uh, just kind of puts an expression on that like no other. Well, Milt, it always wasn't like that. Even in sobriety, it always wasn't like that. I had something happen about four years ago.

Where I, uh, I had some anger issues. It was during COVID and I was losing my temper and I was going [00:09:00] to end up in jail if I didn't do something about this. Right. And I tell you, I took two tools from the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. I made an inventory. I wrote. I wrote a lengthy email, and I shared that in an honest fashion with a mental health professional at the VA facility in Perry Point, Maryland.

And this person got me onto some medication. It was an antidepressant and a mood stabilizer. I was diagnosed with bipolar type 2. And it took about 6 to 12 months to tweak the medication and get the dosages right. But that's where I came through, that's where it was like I came through a cloud. Once the medication was right, and prior to that, I was having suicidal ideation, preservative thinking, racing thoughts, paranoia.

This was in sobriety. In sobriety. Yeah, no plans. Right. No attempts. I was definitely going to get back to that because, you know, you're saying that you went through, [00:10:00] you know, 20, 20 years now of, uh, of attempt survivor and sobriety. But then you hit this, this downfall during the COVID. I hit a downfall during COVID.

Did COVID trigger it? Do you feel like COVID triggered that? that isolation I Also have some other medical problems And I was I have chronic pain from some spinal injuries right, and I was being treated with medication and it was I had a near death experience because I was over medicated. I was obese because I was over medicated.

I think it was the medication that brought it about. Okay. So the medication brought about depression or anger or both? The situation. I think it brought about a situation that fed into the mental health, the mental health problems. Mm hmm. And, uh, what I [00:11:00] remember was preservative thinking, just beating myself up, you know, going back 40 years.

Right. And saying, God, why, you know, recalling conversations from 50 years ago. Right. And then just saying, what a piece of crap you are. Just die. Just be dead. Paranoia, racing thoughts. It was tough. But I came through it, and this is where I beam now. I beam now because, you know, it makes me, it makes me think that I've had, I've had untreated mental health even in sobriety.

Right, but you hit a key point there, and a lot of the things that I teach here is, is mindset. And one of the things you knew in your mindset was to fall back on your program. And you picked a chapter out of that program. Run that by me again. What you picked and that's where you wrote the letter. I wrote the email the email Yeah, I did an inventory which is step four, right?

Okay, [00:12:00] and then Lot honesty is Written throughout the whole program and the literature of Alcoholics Anonymous Get honest be honest, right? And that's what I was able to and that's what I wanted to Refresh everybody here on this. The program works if you use it. Yeah. You have to use it. You have to believe in it.

You have to own it, and at the same time you have to take ownership of who you are. So if you have a problem, and that problem can be resolved from one of the steps of that program, and that's exactly what you did. And, which solidifies that the program works. And you took advantage of the program and made it work even further.

Through this time four years ago, I, I had, uh, I mean, this is my third attempt at Alcoholics Anonymous, my first attempt. I was 26 or 27. I checked myself into a rehab and I didn't drink for three and a half years. That's all I did is I didn't drink. I didn't work a program. My, uh, my egoism would not let me [00:13:00] believe there was a power greater than me in this world.

Right. And, uh, with that approach to, to recovery, I got drunk again. Right. And then I received my second DUI. And that's what, the trigger that brought me into Alcoholics Anonymous again. And then I had about five years of good recovery working the program. But I did what was called resting on my laurels. I stopped going to meetings, I stopped praying, I stopped reading the literature.

I was resting on my laurels. And, uh, to quote from the big book, I'll paraphrase it, but we're not cured of alcoholism. What we have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. If I don't maintain my spiritual condition, I'm going to get drunk again. I've proven that. Right.

And one of the gifts I've gotten from this program is introspection. So, if I can look back and figure out what did I do wrong the first time, well, you need a power greater than yourself. Okay, let's check that [00:14:00] off and make that happen. Don't rest on your laurels. Meaning I gotta work this thing daily.

Right? 'cause if you let it rest, it's going to, I'm good. I'm an alcoholic, right. I'm gonna drink. Right. And I don't want to drink anymore. Right. The reason I go to alcoholics not is 'cause I don't wanna get drunk anymore. Right. And I, I understand exactly what you're saying there because I have some friends and alcoholic and Alcoholics Anonymous and.

They accept the fact that they're an alcoholic and they say, even though they haven't drank in years, they're an alcoholic. Um, but it's, that's the part I was talking about, taking ownership and holding yourself accountable. Um, but I, I'm so grateful that you brought that part up about, uh, taking a step out of that program and making it work and, and, you know, phrasing The word of the book.

Um, so it's, you know, you're, you're bringing some great points up. Um, how does, [00:15:00] how does, how did you realize, or when did you realize that this program was going to work for you? When did you accept that this is what you need? This is what's going to make it work. And I have to make it work now, sending a message out there to the listeners.

You know, they're probably like, you know, well, like you said, in the first part, I just wasn't drinking. He wasn't living the life of a recovering alcoholic. He just wasn't drinking. I was miserable. I was unhappy. I remember people thinking I was an asshole drunk. People thought I was an asshole not drinking.

I might as well drink. You were a lot better off when you were, you were a lot nicer guy when you were drinking. Maybe not. Right. But I could cope with life, I thought I could cope with life better. What happened was, I was in the hospital after my attempted suicide. And my father, who I'm very close to, and I 12 stepped him into the rooms.

I [00:16:00] was, uh, sober for about 6 months, and I 12 stepped my father. We used to drink a lot together. And we were good friends. He's passed about four years now. And, uh, Sorry for your loss. I, I 12 stepped him into the rooms. Into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. Because he was an alcoholic. And he, he died with 25 years sober.

Wow. So, when I relapsed, he was there for me. And he 12 stepped me back into the rooms. He came to visit me every day in the hospital. And, uh, I, I never want to forget this. But I'm taking myself back to the psychiatrist's office that we were sitting in, there was three of us, myself, my father, and the psychiatrist.

And his head was kind of hanging, and he had this despondent look on his face. And he said, why don't you try AA again, it works, it really does. And I said, okay. Therapist said this? No, my father said that. Your father said that, okay. I said, okay, I'll try AA again. And that started me on my journey. And then [00:17:00] there's a section of the book called How It Works, it's chapter 5, but the first three pages of that are read at many meetings, uh, as part of the, uh, the opening monologue of a meeting.

It's like three pages of how it works, and it describes how the program works in a nutshell. And, uh, I remember going to, I got out of the hospital on a Thursday. I went to a clubhouse in, uh, Fallston, Maryland. The Serenity Club on a Friday. It was a Friday evening. And I remember this guy standing up and saying how it works.

And, uh, it dawned on me, I didn't know how this thing worked. I had been to thousands of meetings and I didn't know how it worked. And I started paying attention and I started reading a book. I took a very fundamentalist approach to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. If it said do it, I did it. If it said don't do it, I didn't do it.

Right. And that's why I wanted you to really dig deeper [00:18:00] into that because I think a lot of the listeners out here, um, especially if they're going through any type of AA, um, they may not trust in it or believe in it. You know, they're, they're thinking that, Oh, I'll just stop drinking and get through this.

Um, but if it, if it leaves a, an opening for failure, um, the risks are too high and you're, you could, you could fail. Uh, if you don't believe in it, you don't follow it, but, um, you failed. And because you were just going with the, the part of the program, not drinking. And then it. You, you failed again and then, but you went back, uh, by the grace of your father, he got you back into the program.

Drinking is but a symptom for an alcoholic. There's many underlying problems. Right, right. So, I'd like to share another piece of literature if that's okay. Absolutely. So, another favorite, one of my favorite books of, [00:19:00] uh, the program is called The Twelve and Twelve. It's 24 essays, 12 essays on the steps, 12 essays on the traditions.

But this is one sentence. Third paragraph from the foreword, AA's 12 steps are a group of principles, spiritual inner nature, which if practiced as a way of life, can expel the obsession to drink and enable the sufferer to become happily and usefully whole. I can tell you, Milt, I could get sober, but I couldn't stay sober.

I had three attempts at Alcoholics Anonymous, so I could get sober. The first attempt was three and a half years, the second attempt was seven years without a drink, but I couldn't stay sober. And I couldn't, I wasn't happy. Happy people don't attempt suicide. Right. And I wasn't useful. I wasn't useful to my family.

I wasn't useful to my, to society. I just wasn't useful. To yourself. I wasn't useful to myself. But by working the 12 steps, I was able to make some changes in my life. And let's go back to the four [00:20:00] years ago during the COVID. Um, One of the things that you dealt with was anger and, you know, I understand anger.

I dealt with that myself. Um, don't know how you felt exactly for sure, but I understand the anger part of it because I went through a lot of that and I know it helped me through it. But, even though you were recovering, you were, At that time, 16 years into sobriety and, , and from your attempt, but the, the anger started to take over and you had mentioned something about, diagnosis and medication.

How do you feel about diagnosis and medication for, for that anger part? What helped you through that? I got with the right professional, a man that was compassionate and understood. And I think because I did a thorough inventory of what was going on in my head. And my actions, he was able to diagnose, Hey, this guy has bipolar type 2.[00:21:00] 

And it went undiagnosed probably for most of my adult life. And, you know, a lot of us don't want to believe that there's anything wrong. A lot of us don't want to believe that we need medication. Um, we don't want to take the medication. I I've been in, I've been there. I, when I first got sober, I tried, I don't need the antidepressants.

I don't need them. Right. You know, let me try a spiritual approach to this. Right. I suffer just as I suffer from alcoholism. I have thyroid disease. I have high cholesterol. I have high blood pressure and I take pills for that. Right. I have depression and I need to take a pill for that too. Right. And that's something we cannot get through our heads sometimes.

And it's not a one hit wonder. You don't go to one therapist and you're cured. Right. You don't take the pills for a week and then stop abruptly and you're cured. Actually, that's the worst thing to do. I've gotten sick from stopping abruptly. Exactly. It's, it's a form of detox. And, but also [00:22:00] Not every therapist that you go see is going to be the one for you.

That's right. You may need to see multiple ones and find out one that works. But go a couple times. I know one of my previous podcasters said the same thing. Go a couple times, feel it out. If it's not for you, great, that's no problem. Find another one before you quit. Go to the next, find one that works. And it's the same thing with the medication.

If it doesn't work, speak up. Right, right. And the same thing with the medication. If the medication, if you don't feel like it's working or it's making you feel different, speak up. And they'll find what works for you. They'll find a dose or a brand or a type or a therapeutic measure that will work for you.

It's not a one hit wonder. Um, it didn't happen overnight. It's not going to get cured and fixed overnight. I like that. It didn't. It did not happen overnight. But that's our, that's our expectation. Our expectation when something like this happens is like, you know, well fix it, you know, fix it now. Okay. I went to, I [00:23:00] was there, I came to see you last week and I don't feel any different now.

Okay. Well, it's not going to change that fast, you know, and again, it didn't happen overnight. We're not gonna be able to fix it overnight. It's going to take multiple sessions, it may take multiple therapists, it may take multiple different doses or types of medications to help you get through it. And one of the things that I'm really proud of hearing from you and proud of you for doing is speaking up about the therapy and the medication part.

And especially the simple fact that, you know, we go, if we got high blood pressure, we go, if we got cholesterol problems, thyroid problems, whatever it might be, we see the doctors on a regular basis, we get our medication on a regular basis, we take our medication on a regular basis, but daggone it, when it comes to our mental health, we don't pay that kind of attention to it.

Why do we do that? [00:24:00] I think there's a stigma. Oh, absolutely. A societal stigma. Absolutely. And that's what we're trying to break here, to tell everybody it's, you know, it's okay. It's okay to not be okay. And egoism. I don't need help. Yeah. Yeah. We feel strong enough to get through it ourselves. Yeah. Well, what do you say about that?

I mean, you've experienced quite a bit. And I would say get help. It's just that simple. Talk it out. If it's not working, keep talking. If it's not working and you keep talking and it's still not working, find somebody else. And how many different therapists did you go through before you found one that worked for you?

I had a good one. Her name was Kim at the VA Health, uh, Healthcare System at Perry Point. Kim Skelly. And she moved on to Arizona. And then I struggled of trying to get hooked up with the next one. [00:25:00] Uh, I tried to, uh, there are some inadequacies in the VA healthcare system and I struggled for several months.

I struggled for several months and then I got assigned to a guy named Josh Baker who figured it out and got me on an antidepressant and a mood stabilizer and that has made the difference in my world. This is normal. I like normal. Right. So it was a, it was a combination of medications and And a 6 to 12 month tweaking period, getting the dosages right.

There you go, folks. You hear that? 6 to 12 months tweaking period to get it right. Yeah. It didn't happen overnight. It's not going to get fixed overnight. But it's like I walked through a cloud. Right. Into, this is normal? Right. The smoke cleared. The smoke cleared. Yeah. It wasn't, I, I had never really sponsored people in AA until after that COVID incident where my [00:26:00] anger was out of control.

And then I got, uh, and I got working with Josh Baker and then I got the medication right. And that's when people started to be attracted to me. Good for you. Hey, I want what that guy has. Yeah, yeah. Because you looked and acted like you were loving life. I think that's it, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of us are envious of that.

You know, we see people that's really enjoying life. It's like, what are they on? What do they got going? What's helping them? You know, what, what's, and, the, the illness, rather if it's mental health or alcohol or drugs, whatever it might be, the illness does not have a type of person. Um, it's, it's, it's not prejudiced in any way.

I mean, it doesn't matter if you have money, it doesn't matter if you're poor, it doesn't matter if you got a, a college degree or a doctor, whatever, an artist, a [00:27:00] musician, a movie star. I mean, we see it every day that it doesn't really pick a type of people, a, a demographic, so to speak. We're all exposed to, to this in some way, shape, or form.

It could be any one of us. So it It's not because of who we are. It's not because, you know, we, you know, we failed at a few things or we failed at a couple things. Um, or, you know, didn't get an education or didn't get to finish, you know, uh, college or whatever it might be. Um, but one of the things that, um, you talked about was just recently getting diagnosed.

You know, four years ago. And that's the first time you heard that diagnosis? I've always been, not always, for years I've been treated for severe depression. Okay. But the diagnosis of bipolar type 2 was, that was the first diagnosis. And, I, you know, of [00:28:00] course, everybody's a doctor now with Google. So I started Googling, I started Googling the medication, what is it being treated for.

And it, the, one of the, the mood stabilizer is used to treat schizophrenia. Right. So I immediately asked the therapist, Oh, so does that mean I have schizophrenia now? And he said, I don't like labels. Right. You know, let's just, the medicine's working, let's just leave it at that. But I, I did go back and I read notes.

Right. And the diagnosis is bipolar type 2. And what did you think the first time you heard that? Did you feel like, oh, they finally figured it out? Yes. Yes. Really? Yes. Okay. Because a lot of people call BS. You know, I don't, there's nothing wrong with me. I don't, you know, I don't have that. I've heard, I've heard people say that, you know, they don't want to be, have a label pinned on them of, of who they are.

For years, I didn't want to be an alcoholic. Right. So I tried to drink with [00:29:00] impunity like other people and it didn't work. I just didn't want to be an alcoholic. I just wanted to be able to drink regular. I am an alcoholic, so I can't drink regular. Well, I never wanted to be bipolar type 2, but now that the diagnosis has been made and the medications are being prescribed and my life has gotten a lot better, I'll embrace it.

If it means normal, I'll embrace it. Right? No, I mean, I didn't want to be a survivor of loss and I kept that a secret for many years, but that's a stigma that's associated with it and, uh, you know, finally started talking about it, but the one thing that made the difference in me was the first time that someone told me I made a difference in their life.

Um, even as far as someone telling me I saved their life by giving them the encouragement or, you know, the want. To go out and ask for help. [00:30:00] Wow, there's nothing more powerful than to hear something like that. And I'm sure in, in your field, um, being a, um, Um, not a coach, a uh, Sponsor. Sponsor. Being a sponsor for AA, I'm sure you've had an impact on people's lives to where some of them said that you've made a difference or maybe even saved their life.

I've heard both of that. I've heard both. How does that make you? How does that make you feel? Dig deeper. Keep on doing it. Right. Cause that's a, we have serviced other people. That's what I shoot for today. Yeah. And that's one of the things that was most powerful to me is to hear that I made a difference in someone's life.

And someone said, you know, don't stop telling this story. And you know, it's just like, I'm sure you're hearing it, you know, don't stop being a sponsor, you know, keep reaching out, get more people, get more people. I get more out of it than they do, I think. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Cause [00:31:00] that's not true. I get a lot out of it.

So I don't want to stop doing it. Yeah. Well, I mean, they may be getting their life out of it. Absolutely. Right. There's one guy I'm working with right now. He's on fire for this stuff. Yeah. He's on fire for the 12 steps and the promises. We have something called the 9 step promises. And he said, I want those promises.

I want the promises. I said, work the 12 steps. Promises start to happen after the 9 step. Yeah. There you go. And you know, one thing that, um, I think is so inspiring. You got a pretty hard, tough story. I mean, it's I'm sure it's painful for you to tell, and like you said, it makes you visualize or think. I was visualizing a lot of things during the first part of this podcast.

I was visualizing moments, moments that were very difficult, but this is an opportunity to be of service. Absolutely. If one person listens and says, Hey, maybe I'll, [00:32:00] you know, I'm not going to give up today. And that, that's exactly what I'm getting at. There's so many components to your story. The first part of this podcast, the second part of this podcast, that's going to be so inspirational to so many people.

You've been through a heck of a lot and there's a lot of people in so many different demographics that can relate to what you've been through. You know, rather if it's, you know, education, military jobs, injuries, uh, relationship. I mean, there's so much that you've been through. You're, you're. Family, direct family relationships, and then now to the point where, you know, in your recovery, you're, you also said, even though I've been in sobriety and attempt survivor for 20 years, I still had a downfall.

And you recognize that it's okay to not be okay by continuing. You didn't give up. You just. Dove in even deeper and harder. You put the [00:33:00] talons back into it and you kept clawing at it and Now you're at that point where you're really making a difference in others lives. You found balance and stabilization in your life with the recent diagnosis But um, I mean you set all the markers for making a difference and there's you know I'm really proud of you, but there's there's so many people that are going to be inspired by her By your story and what you can share with them.

I have balance and stabilization in my life today. And how does that make you feel? I feel wonderful. Good for you. Just to let you folks know, I'm beaming right now. I can feel, I'm beaming. I got a big smile on my face. He does, he does. I tell you, when I told you you should be able to see it, it won't be long folks, we're going to be having the video podcast.

And I want to get Matt back in here so you can see the glow coming off of him. But it's people like this that inspire me to do what I do. And I'm sure that, you know, he's inspired [00:34:00] many different ways as well with everything that, that he's doing in the lives that he's touching out there. And, uh, my gosh, it's hard not to get emotional about this stuff.

But anyway, um, you know, just like the first part of the podcast, Matt, um, if you had a message to share with someone that is in the midst of recovery, in the midst of therapy, in the midst of a diagnosis, in the midst of, um, rather if it's a 12 step program or whatever kind of program they might be in, uh, for their recovery.

Um, even though you have the 20 years under your belt, you had a, a small backlapse four years ago and you, you bounced beyond that, I mean, with just Beautiful colors. What message would you share with them? I know not giving up is one of them. Don't, don't give up. Life, life is going to throw you some curveballs.

I hate [00:35:00] to use cliches, and yet I just used one. I had, something happened to me in 2015 because of my spinal injuries. I wasn't able to work anymore. And in 2016, I had to sell my house. And I basically became homeless and relied on other people, their generosity. And, uh, that, that, that induced a deep depression.

It wasn't suicidal because there was no alcohol involved. I saw an interesting statistic last week or the week before. 25 percent of suicides are alcohol related. Yeah, I believe that, uh, all four of my family members were intoxicated when they died. All four of them. So I've got a chance. If I don't pick up a drink, I've got a chance of beating this thing, of living a good life.

You're not gonna pick up a drink? No. I can tell about a, the beam that's coming off of you. No. Have good [00:36:00] life. I, I, I have no desire to drink today because if I drink, things are gonna change. Things are gonna change for the worse. I, I, I accept that today a drink, no matter what's going on, a drink is only gonna make it worse right now.

How do you, how do you separate yourself in the, in the public? Like if you go to a restaurant and there's people around you that's drinking, does that bother you? It does not. The compulsion to drink has been lifted from me. Okay. It tells us in the literature, the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, if we work the 12 steps, the compulsion will be lifted from us.

I have no desire because if I take a drink, I'm going to put in jeopardy the peace of mind and serenity that I have. Yeah, I agree. Those are the two. Peace of mind and serenity are the greatest gifts I've gotten from this program. I did a lot of moving in my life. I've lived in Western Pennsylvania. I think I had four or five addresses in Maryland.

I [00:37:00] lived in Florida. I lived in California. I was always looking for something. I didn't know what I was looking for, but I was always looking for something right. And it, I, I found it in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. I found peace of mind and serenity. There you go. And I'm sure I'm speaking for a lot of others.

We're glad to have you because, uh, you know, you're making a difference and you're, you're leaving the, the footprints in the sand, so to speak. There's another cliche for you, . You're leaving the footprints in the sand for others. Um, and I, I thank you for everything that you're doing. And, uh, folks, I know this is going to really touch a lot of people out there and you're going to, you're going to be able to reflect on a lot of, uh, you know, Matt's memorable experiences and moments.

You know, like, like Matt said, you know, don't give up. There is hope. There's a lot of programs out there. There's a lot of resources out there to reach out to. And you can call any of your local mental health departments and find out any resources that might be available in your area.

Then also if you're [00:38:00] struggling, if you're struggling with thoughts of suicide, Hit that 988 number. There's people on those lines that can really help you out and make a difference in your thought process and, and, and what you're dealing with. Or even if you know someone that is contemplating that, you can dial 988 and they will, they will help you work with the family members there.

So, keep listening. Matt, thank you. Bill so glad to have you here. And you're an inspiration. You really are. And I think a lot of people are going to be touched by your story. Thank you. So folks, thank you so much. I want to send a special thanks out to Four Corner Strategies for the producing they do on these podcasts for us, so our listeners can enjoy them at a sound level here.

There's no editing or, , cutting of any of the podcasts. It's a true raw and uncut stories. And, uh, you can follow us on MiltonDennis. org or Calshope. com. Take care and we'll talk to you soon.

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