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Shared Voice by 10-42 Project, A First Responder Podcast
"Shared Voices"
The 10-42 Project is a faith-based resource and refuge organization dedicated to supporting first responders. We equip individuals with essential mental health tools, restore hope during times of crisis, and guide people toward a renewed purpose through the everlasting love of Jesus.
Shared Voice by 10-42 Project, A First Responder Podcast
Broken Open: A First Responder's Path to Wholeness
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What happens when the people we count on to save us need saving themselves? In this raw and powerful conversation, former Marine and police officer Connor Wainscott reveals the hidden battles fought by many first responders – battles that don't end when the uniform comes off.
From experiencing childhood sexual abuse at age eight to confronting death regularly as a police officer, Connor's story is one of accumulating trauma that nearly cost him everything. After discovering a murder victim during field training and later being involved in a shooting that lasted just four seconds but changed his life forever, he found himself spiraling into increasingly risky behavior on duty while battling suicidal thoughts at home.
"I was in three or four felony stops a week," Connor reveals, describing his post-shooting mindset. "I didn't really have the ability to refrain from going after it. It was like I've already been here, I've proven myself, and I don't want someone else to have to go through what I'm dealing with."
The conversation explores the unique challenges first responders face: the stigma around mental health treatment, the difficulty separating identity from the badge, and the instinct to protect loved ones from their darkest experiences – sometimes at the cost of true connection. Connor speaks honestly about marriage during crisis, parenting while struggling, and how his faith ultimately became his foundation for healing.
Most powerfully, we witness how trauma can transform into purpose. Now volunteering at the same retreat that helped save his life, Connor walks alongside other first responders battling similar demons. "I've been able to share the gospel more at these retreats than I ever got the opportunity on a call for service," he shares. "That's where it sucks to have had to go through what I did to get to that point, but I wouldn't give it up for anything."
If you or someone you know works in emergency services, this conversation might just save a life. Because as Connor's journey proves, even our darkest experiences can become the light that guides others home.
If you or someone you know is in crisis and at risk of self-harm, please call or text 988, the suicide and crisis lifeline.
To contact us directly send an email to Dan@10-42project.org or call 515-350-6274
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Introducing Conor's Journey
Speaker 1Welcome back to another episode of the Shared Voices podcast brought to you by the 1042 Project. I'm excited to introduce you. You probably saw him on some other podcasts, but Conor's here. We're going to do a one-on-one. You want to do a one-on-one, bro? Let's go. We're going to do a one-on-one and we're going to have a talk. Conor has a story that is similar to a lot of people's, but his happened in a very short period of time. Um, I don't know everything of a story, so I'm gonna learn some of it right here, but I am so proud of you for having the courage to come on here and share your story. Um.
Speaker 1I think you sharing your story is going to unlock somebody else's healing, right, that's why we share it. Right and that's what's cool is when we start to share these things that we held in as a secret, that we held for shame. I think it. They need first responders, need other first responders being willing to stand up and say and verbalize what we're about to talk about the ugly parts, because they're there. We can either address them or we can keep hiding from them.
Speaker 1I don't know know about you. I'm tired of seeing watching first responders kill themselves. I'm tired of watching families destroyed. I'm tired of watching children's going through divorces and marriages and homes being destroyed. I'm tired of addictions. I'm tired of us first responders eating each other up and not having grace for each other. I'm tired of it because it held me back so many years to get help, and I'm sure it held you back a little bit, but you had the courage to to reach out for help. So I'll just dive into a little bit of your story and let's just kind of set set the tone here. Tell us a little bit about you and how you went from Kansas to now you're in Iowa talking on a podcast, because I doubt, when you started your police career, when they pinned your badge on, you're like, I hope, in a few years I'm on a podcast talking about um, the trauma I went through and how I about lost it all.
Speaker 3Yeah, so I started and well, I went to the Marine Corps right out of high school and I did that and then, once I got done there, went into law enforcement in Olathe in Kansas.
Speaker 1I like how he says he did that. Like I was in Marines. Like I did that, like I visited that place, it was cool, like you're the freaking Marines man.
Childhood Trauma and Marine Corps
Speaker 3That's awesome it was a. It was its own unique challenge, and one thing I'll say is that everything I've done in life has had a hidden meaning. There's a lot that's happened to me that it's weird to say and when you tell it to people they're confused. But I've been through a lot of stuff I'd never want anyone to go through but it's shaped me and molded me into who I am today and I think that's really the big part I have to cling on to. So I had a lot of stuff in the Marine Corps that was unexpected and had a lot of stuff in childhood that was unexpected, that really, really I held. I had I mean, like I said, I'm an open book, so I'll go back even farther had had sexual abuse as a eight-year-old and from someone close enough to our family. That just made it very difficult. There's a different dynamic there and I spent 10 years up until I was 18, just hating, hating what had happened to me, hating the person who had done that and led to a lot of just dark times in my childhood and don't remember a times in my childhood and don't remember a ton of my childhood. I'm realizing, the more that I get into my adult life, that there's a lot there that I really can't think back on without some assistance. There's obviously memories there, but they're just, they're not the ones that pop up when I go back to it. So, yeah, and that's been its own journey.
Speaker 3You know, I spent, like I said, ten years working through the hatred and and, honestly, just the spirit of revenge and wanting to take back what was mine. So that's actually what led me into the marine corps. Uh, was revenge. Pretty much. I genuinely was.
Speaker 3I wanted to join the military in order to learn how to do what I needed to do to take care of this person that had had harmed me as a child, and so, obviously, I decided to go the hardest route with the Marine Corps, and there was a sense of pride there. With you know they're the best of the best when it comes to the military. With you know they're the best of the best when it comes to the military, and, and so I I went into that and realized very quickly you know, the lord just worked on my heart as I was going through boot camp that I was doing it for the wrong reasons. Um, you got to share the gospel there with people.
Speaker 3Boot camp was such a unique experience. I unfortunately watched someone try and commit suicide and that led to its all stuff that I've carried for a long time, and then had someone that was supposed to be an example and a leader and attacked me throughout that physically. I think back on that and if they hadn't been pulled off they probably would have tried to kill me in that moment and so there's a lot there that just kind of broke down who I was and what I was doing and why I was doing it.
Speaker 3And so I got that from from boot camp completely changed not this innocent kid that I've been, not this innocent kid that I've been, you know, putting out there to people and just what it did was reshaped who I was, who I thought I was, and who the Lord was to me and my faith is a huge component to me and through all that hard work just found a spirit of forgiveness. So I actually got to go and meet this person Really, yeah.
Speaker 1Wow, that's not bad. Yeah, so close enough, are you going? To talk about this. Yes, okay, good, yes, close enough.
Speaker 3Yes yeah, close enough that I was able to set up a meeting with him and just explain that I knew what had happened as a kid, that because I hadn't told anybody up to this point at all, I had just held it in and was able to talk about that with him and just forgive him for what was done, not knowing whether I could remember and all of the second guessing that had gone on in their head and self-destructive behaviors and attempts on their own life and different things because of it. And seeing the change in that person even till now, being able to see that, has been just an incredible, like it's a god thing.
Speaker 3absolutely 100 percent you were able to forgive him yeah, I wasn't yeah, it's through through me that they got a lot of it. But, um, yeah, I mean I don't have any explanation when people ask me other than god gave me the ultimate forgiveness and grace and how many things that I've done, continue to do and that he's able to forgive me.
Speaker 1You know what's stopping me so, dude, that says a lot about your character right there. Seriously, like I just learned a lot about you. You're a standout dude man, thank you, wow. So then you go from Marines to how the heck did you end up in uniform?
Speaker 3Yeah, so when I was 14, my brother went in to a neighboring city that I ended up starting with and it was always one of those jobs that had a lot of people in my life that were were law enforcement that I respected, that I looked up to as a kid but I never knew how to get there. It's that like mystical job that you just don't know the process and so once my brother did it. It's like okay it can't be, you know.
Speaker 3But you know we were, we were homeschooled, there was a certain level of like what is the? Process for a homeschooler to get into that kind of work, same thing with the marine corps, and having to come up with all these things that you know we might not have had, and and so once he did that I was pretty sure, sure, that's the route I wanted to go.
Speaker 3So I started there. Let's see, I would have turned 21 in December of 2001. And then started, let's see, started in March of I think it was March of 21. I mean, it might be my years. Mixed up, it all blends together. Got on with Olathe, had a buddy from Church that still works there that I got to do a couple ride-alongs with, and just really good department very solid.
Entering Law Enforcement
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean, mean, it was always something I knew I wanted to do. And then going there, even to this day, although I'm not a part of it anymore very solid department and training wise and taking care of their people. They, they, they care and they'll follow through with what they say they're going to. Yeah, so got started and went to the academy.
Speaker 3That went really well, and then went into patrol, got started and immediately you know they talk about people being magnets for certain things oh yeah, it was pretty evident that that was just my lane. I had the nose to sniff it out and I had a passion to go get people who were doing bad things. I got into quite a bit of stuff and before I was out of field training had already gone through the process of um. We had a lady that we were looking for and ended up finding her, you know, in a, in a freezer in her basement, and that is something I'll never forget um, a smell and a view that I'll always remember and and just set the tone for there's a certain level of like, what's actually going to happen out here, what are we actually going to see or get into? And so that was kind of the first real major. All right, we're in it. And this is real, it's not TV, exactly.
Speaker 1Like you can prepare for it and compare it for it and think you're ready. But this was the real one. It's like whoa yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah, I feel like you're living a movie at that movie at that it does. And you know, always tell people is like the last place I wanted to look because I knew if there was somewhere she was that was going to be it.
Speaker 3So dealt with that um, taking the suspect back to to jail and just sitting in silence with them for so long and no remorse at all, and then not getting charged for certain reasons and having to continually have contacts with that person on the street, made it my life goal to arrest that person as many times as I could, and I got like four or five, so I was pretty happy with that hey, man, if they're breaking the law, they're breaking the law exactly.
Speaker 1We just happen to be there every time.
Speaker 3I don't tell you yeah um, but yeah, I mean I just had that and then once I got out on my own, really like I wanted to go and get bad people off the street and I was a big warrants guy. I like wasn't on any specialized unit for it or anything, but that was um, it was like easy pickings, it's like yeah. I know where you're at, and if I don't, I'm gonna figure it out yeah and uh, so I'd I'd go pick up quite a few of those.
Speaker 3Um, I think my last year I had like 96 arrests and about 70 percent of them were guys with felonies and it was a, it was a good time, um, but through that I got into a lot.
Speaker 3I saw a lot, had a lot of kind of once in career calls that you know you get back to the station and your sergeant's patting you on the back like man. I've never seen that before. And in the moment there's this culture of like yes, like I could, you know, check that off my bingo card for for this career. And the more I got into it, the more I realized like that's not something that I was super proud of, like I was proud of the work I did, but what came along with it was was just really starting to wear on me and, you know, dealt with some, uh, back-to-back high schoolers that um were killed on the highway and you know one one both trying to kill themselves, but you know one running across trying to get hit and dealing with the aftermath of that on a you know quarter mile long scene and then won the next week jumping off of a bridge and that was my first death notification that I gave to his family those are so hard they are, and it was a.
Speaker 3It was a local officer's son oh geez, um, who had actually heard it on the radio and I guess was concerned enough about you know where his son was at mentally, that uh, he had already started making his way home, so met him and, um, just so many of those like when people talk about the scream of a mother, and uh, you know the, just the passion that was felt there I always call it like a blood curdling cry like you can't, there's no other.
Speaker 1It's like a guttural yeah you don't?
Speaker 3it's hard to get that noise out of your ears. It is, it is and uh, so I spent, you know, about three hours within that evening waiting for detectives and everyone to wrap up and come over and, um, it's like the most useless feeling and I had to deal with that a lot and I still one of the toughest parts of what I look back on is, you think about, you know, being this person behind the badge and not just making it a badge but having humanity behind it. And that was the one moment that I felt like I didn't have anything to offer. And, um, you know, they had, um, another child who had cancer his whole life and had been fighting that, and it was just, it was a tough, tough scene to be a part of, and but I moved on and, well, I didn't.
Speaker 1but I told myself, we tell myself yeah we tell you yeah, we moved on, we got it whipped.
Speaker 3And I didn't realize you know how much weight that had until I was just driving the streets on a midnight patrol and I don't think I'd ever really thought about where their house was. But I turned on that street and immediately just felt the weight of a two-month-old call come right back. So that's kind of what started opening my mind and eyes up to. Okay, this stuff I'm seeing is not the normal stuff that people you know, regular, everyday people, deal with. Obviously, cops and firefighters are a different story.
Speaker 1But you're new and young, so are you feeling like I can't? I just got to keep going and toughing through it, because everybody else is fine, because. I don't know for me, when you're the young one, you kind of just keep your mouth shut right.
Officer-Involved Shooting
Speaker 3And you kind of mock what everybody else not mock. You mirror what everybody else is doing, like yeah, I mean there's this level. You know the Marine Corps, like I think that was also kind of the same time where I realized how much they'd really changed my thought process. And you know they talk about breaking you down, building you back up into what they want you to be. But that was kind of the first time that I realized like I was emotionally detached from things when I needed to be and because you know there you're taught to.
Speaker 3You know if you lose the guy next to you, you got to keep moving because the mission's in front of you. And so there was a level of like I just gotta bottle it up, and you know I did that for 10 years with my childhood stuff. And so there was a level of like I just gotta bottle it up, and you know I did that for 10 years with my childhood stuff. And so there was a level of just all right, I know the process, even though I knew the harm that holding it in for 10 years will do, yeah, but there's just this repetition and muscle memory to okay, let's, let's shove it down, start the next, next shift, and time heals all wounds right. Yep, it'll go away.
Speaker 3No, it doesn't at all Just pour booze on it.
Speaker 1That's what I did. That helps a lot. Yeah, nod, yeah.
Speaker 3I am thankful that that was not a vice for me, but mine was go get into stuff that's twice as dangerous.
Speaker 3I think it was about the time that I started really putting myself in some precarious spots, and so I started kind of giving some thought to getting help and then I don't know how much longer it was ended up getting into an officer-involved shooting. That was just a crazy. Had a buddy on a stop that had stopped somebody and he had talked to a random member of the public that had come by in their own car and asked for help and then drove off. And so he was. I think he'd been out on his own for about two weeks and so he asked for backup and and I was pretty close by Um so once I was pulling up that, that uh citizen returned to the scene and ended up getting out of his car with a knife and coming at both of us, so we both.
Speaker 3It all leads into a lot of stuff, but when I got put on administrative leave, I was helping out detectives with reports and organization. As a curious mind, I went back and read those reports because I had never seen them yet. They broke it down because I had no clue still on what the timeline was. But from the time that I got out of my car to firing my weapon was four seconds and that blew my mind because there's so much that happened in that time and Spidey Sense is a real thing Like the world did slow down and I experienced a lot of different things than what four seconds makes it seem like.
Speaker 3So, um, you know, we both both ended up firing and uh tried to to work on that guy. It unfortunately lost him and um, so that kind of started the process of, you know, being on admin leave for three months waiting to get cleared and, um, a lot, of, a lot of access to reports. Um, this is the one thing that I, you know, I've talked to my department and have made sure never happens again is that they put me in charge of sorting homicide files. Oh geez.
Speaker 1What are we doing to each other?
Speaker 3Yeah, I know, it's like we say it now and it's like how does that make any sense? Here it happens. And with that came, you know, the access to every homicide file from 100 years ago till now, ever since they started.
Speaker 1In cop brain. You're digging into it.
Speaker 3Yeah. So you know, in that moment went through all of them pictures and all that's something. It's not a regret that I have, but it is something that got a lot more faces to my nightmares and all the things that I have to deal with. And so that was kind of one of those things that I talked to my chief after. I said, hey, like once I was in a better it was actually after I went to the retreat that I went to that I went back. I said that's something that never to that. I went back and I said that's something that never like that can never happen again.
Speaker 3Because I was in a vulnerable spot and not realizing it and uh just piling on, keep it coming and um. So that was about three months. I got cleared in September of 23. Uh, the shooting happened in June of 23 and um went back for about three months September till the end of the year and I was on fire Like I was in three or four felony stops a week. You know know, getting real close to um, getting in more another shooting, um like hunting people down, that that had, you know, just shot rounds off at people and um like I didn't really have the uh ability to refrain from going after it it was like I've already been here and I've proven myself and I don't want someone else to have to go through what I'm dealing with.
Speaker 3Yeah, so I might as well just add it on. Yeah, um, but that led to a very dangerous mindset. Very, it wasn't haphazard, but it was bordering on just being unsafe for those around me and where I used to do a lot of prep work and learning about who I was going after. I started just, you know, nonchalant, let's go after somebody and see what happens, um. So then I went to my first or like my six month checkup with our our therapist and, uh, went to her and immediately just broke down realizing where I was at. I had like two weeks off for Christmas and that was the first time. You know, kept, obviously, you got to keep your your work email on your phone so you don't miss anything.
Speaker 3And you know all of the group chats are going off even when you're not at work. And, yep, that two weeks was the first time in my career that I had ever like I just shut everything off because I knew I wasn't in state, I wasn't anywhere that I could help. Anything that went on. I wasn't going to come in on an extra shift if they needed it, so it was. I turned it all off and it was the first time that I realized like, and there is a huge weight on my shoulders and mind and this is the first time I feel like I've been able to relax on the weekend.
Speaker 3Um, so we, we just that was kind of the start to feeling like, okay, I'm not normal, I'm not doing, I need to go talk to somebody. And then I had my six-month appointment post-shooting and that led to going to this retreat that we were talking about earlier, wcpr. Thankfully, it was only like a month away and just led to an entire new process of healing and, um, yeah, so it was and you're married at this time, right yeah?
Speaker 3So I've been married for six years. So um got married while I was still in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1Okay, so your wife's been with you through all this kiddos.
Speaker 3We've got one. Yeah, kiddos, we've got one. Yeah, so we actually. She's about 16 months old and I all of this was happening about the time she was being born, so I got to spend the first eight months at home with her, which was that's a blessing, yeah, huge blessing yeah, that's.
Speaker 1That's that's when, when the babies bond with us the most. It's most important for you to be there as dad. So that was a blessing. Oh yeah. Yeah, and so a kid comes into this world and you're already struggling at this point. Are you talking to your wife about that? Are you talking to anybody at this point?
Speaker 3So I have this issue that I am still, to this day, working through. My wife is extremely strong. She can take a lot more than I've ever given her, and that's the tough part is that I want to protect her. I don't go into a lot of detail with certain things How's?
Speaker 1that working out.
Speaker 3We have a balance that I. It took us a while, um, to figure out really what that looked like, what our conversation looked like. A big issue that I I mean, I still deal with it is just short-term memory loss and uh, so that was a big thing. You know, she, she would think that I wasn't listening to her and it's like I just forgot, like I don't even remember that conversation. Yeah.
Suicidal Thoughts and Finding Help
Speaker 3My head's somewhere else. Um, my sleep was terrible. I was was. You know, I'm on medication now, which has helped a lot me too and that's its own stigma. Like I, I was the last person that I ever thought would get on medication, but I've seen the difference on and off and then now back on yeah and uh also, don't cut cold turkey. That's a bad idea.
Speaker 1Never. Yeah, that's a bad idea. Your brain goes into like these brain zaps like every once in a while. It's weird. Don't ever do it. They think and actually like really hurt yourself.
Speaker 3Yeah, getting off those medicines yeah, so I um through that, like we, we kind of built this process of how we talk to each other and really it's just her having a ton of grace for me and not getting upset when I forget something or um, just completely don't even hear her talking, um, and just understanding, like my brain has a lot going on and there's a lot up there that she can't see, and so that's where we're kind of at with that, but there's still a level of of I keep certain things that I know are tough. Um, you know, one of the things I struggled a lot with during that time was just suicidal thoughts.
Speaker 3And um time was just suicidal thoughts and um, that was like because of my faith and and what I believe there, I don't believe in suicide as a way out, but I was still having the thoughts of it and so it was this internal battle I was already having with myself of how do I go about, you know, telling someone I love that I've been thinking you know every day about killing myself and how to do it, Especially your wife, Exactly.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's the hardest yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah, it's like she's not going to want to leave me at the house alone. Yeah.
Speaker 3And realistically it probably would have been a good thing to have told her. But there was like I don't know if it was shame or just trying to be super protective of her and and her view of how things were going in my journey to, you know, trying to get back to this new normal that I had, and so I just kind of kept that you know buried down, and the retreat was the first time that I had ever opened up about that Thought.
Speaker 3I was the only person we all do who had ever dealt with it, and so I started talking about the first night I was there. And then they ask you know, hey, everyone in this room who's ever had that raise your hand? And there was every single person, yeah, and so that was my first like, okay, I can trust the people here and they know what I'm going through. And, um, it scared me more than anything, you know, the same thing, like when I was talking about the thoughts I was having towards this person who had abused me as a kid Like.
Speaker 3Those thoughts scared me, because at what level do you become comfortable with having them but not acting on them? Right. Um, and so it's a, it's a process and you know there are. There are things that, um, that I bring up in therapy, that stay in therapy, but I've tried to open up a lot more. We have good conversation my wife and I, but she's very patient and gracious to give me time and space and work through it.
Speaker 1We put our families through a lot, don't we? We put our families through a lot and sometimes we dump it on the ones that are closest to us. I know I put my ex-wife through a lot stuff she didn't deserve because some, for whatever reason, it's like we take it out on the people closest to us and not on the, you know, the people that should and, and so many of our spouses and family members are are struggling along with the first responder. Yeah.
Speaker 1And and. As a husband and as a dad, sometimes that guilt and shame comes in, because they're like the people you're supposed to be protecting the most, like your wife and your kids. You feel like you can't be enough. For me it was. I never felt enough. A good enough dad, a good enough husband? A good enough officer? A good enough husband, a good enough officer? Like the devil just constantly tells us that we're not enough yeah and it comes after us.
Speaker 1We struggle with our mental health and then, for me, it got to a point where it was, you know my brain, where the enemy would be telling myself I'm better off, they're better off without me um they'd be better off.
Speaker 1I was dead and you start to believe those thoughts. I mean, I went out and bought accidental death insurance just because I knew I was going to kill myself in a car. Like we start to do these things, that gets ugly, man. And hearing your story from somebody, your age and what you have gone through is and to where you are now, it's inspiring because you had two paths you could have taken and I know how hard it is to go down the healing path because sometimes staying on the hurt path sometimes it's easier because we get used to it there.
Speaker 1We're used to being numb, we're used to being full of anger and hate. We can deal with that. Sometimes, when the emotions come in like love and compassion, sometimes we don't know what to do with that because we're not used to it. Sometimes our loved ones can try to love us well, but because we feel like we're hated by everybody else in the world, because you deal with people that hate you every day, it's hard to feel that love. And for me, when you go to numb your emotions like for me it was hydrocodone, pills and alcohol and other things when I'm losing my train of thought here as soon as I start to talk about things I've gone through. But uh, help me out, when was I at?
Speaker 3Just talking about, like, the different paths, that that, uh, to go down, yeah, to go down.
Speaker 1And it's hard for me. I kept trying to pick that right path and it's hard because you, you start to go down that right path and you start to do a little good and people start to think you're, you're finally there. And you start to think you're there and then you have that next call or that next, or you, you have that. You go down that street and it all re-triggers it and then you fall back to the. You feel like you fall back to the bottom again and now you're looking back up going. I got to get all the way back up there yeah and you get to this point like what's the point?
Speaker 3yeah, I think you know that's been one of the toughest hurdles to jump when working through my incidents, you know, with uh, with my clinician is this idea that, because I have this history of, you know, just shoving it, bottling it up, keeping it quiet and moving on and trying to work away from that? But there's still this battle between, okay, this stuff that you know, I've forgiven this person who wronged me as a child and I've moved on from it, but it, you know, that's that's what I'm working through now is, uh, just all of that and going back and experiencing it again. The first few times was, like, what am I doing?
Speaker 3Like am I making it worse on myself to go back and reopen these wounds that I would have considered healed, but there's still a lot of scar tissue there that had to be dealt with, and so that's where, trusting that process and the people that know what they're talking about and that God's put in my life, um, you know, I'm super thankful that I only have ever had to go to one person as a clinician and not, you know, not shop around to find the person that made the right fit.
Speaker 1Yeah, sounds like you found it right away. That's, that's great.
Speaker 3Yeah and uh. So through that learning that, um, that there is beneficial things to going back and re-experiencing. And then I worked a lot in EMDR through that process, um, which was exhausting physically and emotionally, and just working through it, experiencing it like I was there again, um, reliving every bit of it, to then switching to art, which I don't know if you've heard of it or done it or was ART it's accelerated resolution. Therapy.
Marriage, Family, and Healing
Speaker 3I don't think I have it's basically I've only done like two or three sessions of it, but it's slightly condensed version um of EMDR. It uses different techniques and I love it and and I wouldn't use it on every incident that I've had to work through but this one was fantastic. It goes from being able to take these images in your head that you have and work through them and then the next session we go through and we see them again and we get to cover them up with our own image that we we want to replace. And even now when I think back on it like I know what I would title the old images.
Speaker 3So when I think about those, I still like I can't see them it's the new stuff that I've replaced it with, and so, yeah, it's just, it's incredible, like I know that God's design for the brain is extremely complex and having people that have given time and effort and knowledge and experience into learning and building these techniques that just compliment his handiwork is incredible. Like everybody thinks, it's voodoo magic right.
Speaker 3That's like no, like we're designed this way and for us to be able to like even just that little inkling into how it works, we're able to get these things that just help so much with healing and uh. So it's been an awesome process. Like I think that's why I'm at where I'm at right now is just all of the the work I mean it's been two years of every other week just going in and grinding it out and uh, and being able to see the difference and people see it in me as well.
Speaker 1And that's when, that's when it really starts to feel good is when other people notice it, right. Yeah. Cause you start to see the fruits of all this hard work of healing, and when people start to start to respond, it's a good feeling.
Speaker 3Yeah, and that's where that that fire of helping others starts to really Kindle Cause it's like when you're hurting and feel like you got a mountaintop you got to climb, there's not a lot to give, even though that's who we are as first responders. But once you finally get over that hump and there's, it's not to say there aren't more peaks to climb later, but you start to get that refreshing feeling again and it's like all right, let's go do this, let's go help. And uh, that's why I love giving of my time to that retreat that I went to and, like I have not been to one that I didn't get, to see an awesome change in somebody and continue to see it and it's like the most rewarding thing and you go and volunteer.
Speaker 1So you went there and then now you go back and volunteer. Yeah. You've gone back three times, I think you said in the last podcast that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3And I just started a new job in February. That's completely unrelated, and they are backing me a hundred percent. Like you know, I asked for for no pay. I just want time away, and they're more than willing to give that and and know that that's where my passion's at wow, what a blessing.
Speaker 1Yeah, it is. Do you see yourself sometime, maybe in life, doing this full-time helping people?
Speaker 3uh, yeah, I'm actually in the process. I haven't done a ton of work into it, but um need to get going back to school. I don't have any college, but you don't need college.
Speaker 1Don't go back to school.
Speaker 3Yeah, I've thought about going back and getting my license professional counseling and being able to do that in our local area, and there's a couple of people who are really good, but there's an abundance of people who still need it.
Speaker 1Yeah, so it's a long process, but Well, when someone like you can become a therapist to start helping other first responders, man, that's like double superpower, man, yeah, because you you're a therapist and you've been in their shoes, you know right, that's powerful.
Speaker 3Yeah, and that's the thing, like there are a lot of people who have gone to it, who are now working through that process to do it themselves, and, yeah, it's a unique position to be put in. And again, I think I said it earlier, but that's where I'm appreciative of each thing that's happened, because it'll lead me to a different path than I could have ever made on my own.
Speaker 1Yeah, like I mean I've never. I people say like would you undo it all? I mean I wouldn't want to hurt the people I hurt, but it's the same time. What I went through is created at first. I am now, which is now full of compassion and understanding and grace which I didn't have before.
Speaker 1Because when you get, when you start to get healing for your mental health and you start realizing that there are brothers and sisters that love on you, that they're not going to treat you like you're garbage, and you start to get healing and you start to feel that it's an instant thing that happens where you want to give that to somebody else and that's biblical right. I mean, god calls us to multiply. He helps us. We then go out and disciple for him and help others. I love the. I love that so many of our first responders and just like you, could really easily just walk away from the field and never look back, but the fact that you're willing to take what the story you've gone through and I know you've only shared a small part of it. There's a lot more. You didn't um to be able to take all of that and yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 3I mean even to this day. I wish I was still out there. Yeah.
Speaker 3Like that's where I want to be, but I know it's not good for me, Like I've been able to, thankfully, have the people around me and in my circle to figure out that if I was to continue down that path, it was a it was not a healthy one, and and yeah, I mean my heart's still there and I still have the skillset. And it's unfortunate that the things that happened did, and at the time they did, but it's it's opened all these doors that have allowed, allowed me to meet people like you, meet people from all over the United States, um, that I'm still in contact with and and still making a difference in their life. That honestly to me as more of an impact than I ever did on the street. So it's, it's a way to reframe it and I am all here for it dude, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1Yeah, because you and I look at each other right now. Neither one of us should be here yeah. I should have been dead a long time ago. I've tried several times.
Speaker 1You've tried, you've thought about it yeah, for sure yeah, you know, I've got five kids all together and sometimes, even when you have kids, sometimes that that's not even enough to make you not want to end your life, because in a way, we're telling ourselves we're helping our kids by doing it. And I'm so glad you are here, I'm so glad that your wife still has a husband, that your child still has a dad. I know every day is not a breeze. It's not like you get better with your mental health and all of a sudden you check that box and now it's all roses. It's not, it's an up and down, but what you're doing, by the way you're healing, is showing your family, your wife, and it'll show your kid one or two.
Speaker 1It'll teach your child and it'll teach other kids how to recover from trauma, how to recover from trauma, how to cope with trauma, how to deal with hard things, how we talk about our feelings, how it's okay to open up about the thoughts that are inside our head to somebody else, because as we as dads and moms, as we do that, our kids are watching and I learned that when I caused my kids a lot of pain, but I learned that me working to get sober and to do all that um impacted my kids because I know and I hope that when they have times in their life that they can realize, I hope that they realize and I think to do that they don't have to hold in those thoughts.
Speaker 1If you're having thoughts of harming yourself or you're having thoughts of of any of those things that just get ugly in our life, I want to. I want my kids to walk that out in a healthy way and I think the best way we can do that is by showing them as dads as, and do that is by showing them as dads, as husbands.
Speaker 3So it's pretty amazing. Yeah, I'm thankful that I just had a little baby at that point, but I have nine nieces and nephews and they're old enough to understand and that's honestly something I'm still trying to navigate. I know kids are extremely forgiving and they understand more than you give them credit for, Um, but that's it's tough to navigate. You know, they all knew I was a cop and I don't know how many of them know I'm not anymore. You know, I'm sure the older ones have kind of figured out that's not what I'm doing, but I don't know if any of them know why, or that's hard, isn't it?
Speaker 1It is Because it's hard explaining to people why you're not in it anymore. It feels shameful, it feels you feel weak. It's, it's. It's so hard. You feel like that's your identity. Now it's gone, right. Who are you now?
Speaker 3yeah, and you know I I tried to make such a a point to not make it my identity you know, like I did not hang out with people outside of work on the weekends because you know I'd had people for you know, my whole life telling me, like, when you get into that job, don't do that. Yeah, they're not your family. Yeah, like you need to have separation from it. And so having that, you know, came with its its positives and its negatives, but it made it easier to like I had a great support group outside of work, which was the plus. But yeah, then you realize, oh wow, like actually there was quite a bit of myself that was in that job and just perspective.
Speaker 1But what I had to learn was that our identities aren't our bad. Once I gave my life to Christ and started learning that our identities are in Him. When we think about our self-worth, our self-worth comes from Him and that's who we need to be balancing it off of. Our identity comes from Him. Our identity. Anything outside of that where, if we're not getting it from him, we're chasing, we're chasing something that's unhealthy yeah and but those health unhealthy ways.
Speaker 3Sometimes is the easiest way, because booze works, sex works I mean all this stuff that I had to help people was never fulfilled. On patrol it's so quick, you know you get there on their worst day, you sort things out and you have to move on. And I think that's been one of the coolest changes is that, like this gospel truth that I want to proclaim and the love of Christ that I want to show, being in the position that I was put in and now, having walked the path that I have and now getting to go back, I'm now able to be in this person's worst day, but in a completely different context. I'm not there to fix the problem, I'm there to walk through it with them and I've been able to share the gospel more at these retreats that I go back to than I ever get the opportunity on a call for service. And again, that's where it sucks to have had to go through what I did to get to that point, but I wouldn't give it up for anything.
Finding Purpose in Pain
Speaker 1Yeah, and it's made it who you are. You know and the things you went through as a child, the things you went through in your career, especially as a child, god did not want that to happen to you. He did not want that to happen to you. Some people say, oh God, no, god did not want that to happen to you. But because God does give human beings free will and we are very hurt people, we are ugly to each other Because God gives us free will. If he doesn't give us free will, we're programmed robots and that's not love. So with love comes free will and we do things that are just ugly to each other. Yeah.
Speaker 3I mean, we live in a sinful world and sinful creatures until he's regenerated us. And yeah, it's a, it's a world we're in.
Speaker 1For me is when I was rock bottom, I realized that that's a pretty good foundation to start building on. I mean, when, when I, when, when Jesus is all I had, I realized that's all I needed. I lost the house, I lost my family, I lost it all, and and and I hate, I hate the pain I caused to my family. But I am glad that I'm here today and that I was able to get through that. Um cause I was very lost, like you, yeah, and it's like.
Speaker 3It's like you said earlier, it shows. It shows those who are around you who you are and what you can go through. And, and you know, if you make it your goal to continually point that back to, it's all because of God and what he's done in us. Like that's talk about a light shining. You know that is the brightest thing out there, yep.
Speaker 1So yeah, cause I didn't, you know, we. It's amazing how God can use our pain for purpose. It blows my mind sometimes that the things I hid from all those years, all the guilt and shame, the addictions, all those things are now what makes me unique and allowed to walk alongside other people. It feels weird that our, the bad things we did, are now. You know what I mean. But God does that. That's what he does Well yeah, and you know.
Speaker 3that's why I believe in being so open about everything that has happened, because you know, if I would have had somebody when I was growing up that talked, about.
Speaker 1You know abuse as a kid that happened to like.
Speaker 3I didn't know as a little kid what all that meant, and you know if it was bad, like you just don't. That's not something an eight-year-old should have to go through.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 3And so being open, like I don't want to hide those things that hurt they still hurt and it's not fun to talk about them but knowing that there's a lot of other people who have gone through things that are similar, that then we can bond and like I have an answer because of the truth that's in scripture that I can share and lead them to. It's like that is why God allowed that to happen, because there's benefit to it.
Speaker 1And all we have to do is show up with our fishes and loaves and he'll feel he'll feed the 5,000. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. We don't have to do. All we have to do is show up. The specialness of our organization is simply, we show up for each other.
Speaker 3Well, yeah, there's so many times that I get in my own head about man. What do I say to this person? What do they need to hear right now? How am I supposed to help them through this?
Speaker 1Exactly.
Speaker 3And it was the moment that I realized just give it to God and let him speak through you. And most of the time I talk for a while and have no clue what I said. Me too. Then I go back and either talk to him or listen to it and I'm like, oh, that made some good points there. He really did, you know, bring forth what needed to be heard and help that person in some way.
Identity Beyond the Badge
Speaker 1That's pretty cool and I broke these out earlier. I use these a lot. When I talk to people. They call them Russian nesting dolls, I call them action figures. But go back to your childhood and kind of what we talked about.
Speaker 1Right, a lot of times we're all trying to address this person, the big doll or action figure, and trying to get this one to change, and this is what I was trying to do. I was trying to get this one to change and this is what I was trying to do. I was trying to cover paint all over this, make it look better, try to cover it all up, but what I didn't realize is I had to start opening. God showed me this in prayer one day. I had to start opening these up and unpacking all these other action figures or dolls inside this, because five-year-old Daniel was still dealing with abandonment and abandoning this and some of the things that happened in my past.
Speaker 1At this age I dealt with this and there's all these things in my life of abandonment and other issues that had changed me that I had no idea. And we can't just go and start from here. We have to unpack this. We have to and we have to do it in a safe way, and there's a safe way to do that and that's, you know, like our organization, it's sitting down with somebody who you trust and talking about these things and putting truth to them, because we take on our identities when we go through trauma, when things are done to us, we take on these identities and we hold those throughout our whole life.
Speaker 1And if we can speak truth to that moment in your life and make you understand that you, as a kid, didn't deserve that, you did nothing wrong to deserve that God didn't want that to happen to you, when we can go back and address what happened here and put some truth to it you did nothing wrong, because a lot of times you hold guilt and shame of like what? Maybe I shouldn't. You did nothing wrong. We got to go back and get help. As we get help for that, that unlocks healing through our whole life. Absolutely, because it's changed. Now this has been addressed. Yeah, it's changed. Now this has been addressed and now at Unlocked, you have a clear path to start addressing this one. Would you say that's accurate with you?
Speaker 3Oh yeah, I mean, when I look back at my eight-year-old trauma, I wanted to put it away and just be done with it, but there's so much there that I've learned from going through it. The fact that that's probably why I'm the level of protective person that I am is because I see this, this younger version of myself that has to be protected. That wasn't, and being able to figure out like is that why I am who I am today, in the way that I protect my wife from some stuff that I tell her, is that the reason that I had such a passion to go and hunt these bad people down? And it makes more sense to me that that is because in that moment I had, you know, just innocence. I mean, I was sinful, but I was an eight year old kid. Yeah.
Speaker 3And and so figuring out, like all this time, what I really wish had happened was that I had someone there in that moment to stop it from happening. And it's built me into what I am and you know, each of those things layers into the next, and that's, you know, why some of the stuff in the Marine Corps has, I think I think because of that and and where my mind was at even being molded, and you know, growing has led to the way that I hold things and the way that I experience them is a much more personal level than some people might, and so I have things that you know it happened in the Marine Corps that shouldn't have happened, but they hold this whole new double meaning because the thing that happened there took me right back to when I was an eight year old. Nope.
Speaker 3And like I feel the weight of both now in each other, like I see them both now simultaneously each other, like I see them both now simultaneously, and so being able to deal with that has allowed me the process I mean, it's still a long process of working through each thing. And you know I have people ask me like, does it ever get better or does it ever go away? You know, like I'm two and a half years, you know past, when I got in my shooting and I still deal with nightmares. They're not as frequent, thankfully, but part of that's the medication. Um, it's always going to be there, as far as I can tell. But the things that we learn, the ways that we learn to deal with things and in the process and recognizing it earlier, and all of those are how we get better. Yep, it's still there, it's still going to come up.
Speaker 1We're still going to have things that bring it up but it doesn't control you, correct, and that's the difference that you get control over that switch is being able to recognize it and address it in a healthy way.
Speaker 3Yep, instead of all these other ways that we were doing it yeah, wow, man, you're uh, you're a miracle.
Speaker 1I'm glad you're here I said it before but I'm I'm glad you're still alive and with us, because I know god's got plans for you that you don't even know yet. The fact that you're willing to share your story and be a disciple for him is amazing. I thank you for that. I know that's not easy. I know it gets a little easier over time, but it's hard, especially at the beginning. Thank you for being there for them. We're going to have you on more podcasts in the future, if you're all right with that.
Speaker 3With that, we can do it over line and we'll get you back up here.
Speaker 1But, man, I just I'm glad we met. Yeah, I am too, and I'm glad that you're here today and I'm glad that you're the man you are. Thank you, and I know right now that heaven is dancing because you, you, you sought your heavenly father and you, you got reminded of who you are. Yeah, because you were made on purpose, for a purpose, and you were sitting here on a purpose. Yeah, and it wasn't to be a badge, it's to help people and to be his hands and feet, and you do that well, my friend.
Speaker 1Um, thank you absolutely thank your wife for letting you come up here, and I know you're away from your family. Thank you for sharing that. Um, wow. Well, thank you guys for uh tuning in and and letting me share his story, because there's healing in that, isn't there?
Speaker 3Absolutely.
Speaker 1It's hard, but there's healing every time you talk about it. There really is. So sharing it in a platform like this can really bring healing, not just to you but to others. So thank you for that and we'll have you back on again. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3Thank you.