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Shared Voice by 10-42 Project, A First Responder Podcast
"Shared Voices"
The 10-42 Project is a faith-based resource and refuge organization dedicated to supporting first responders. We equip individuals with essential mental health tools, restore hope during times of crisis, and guide people toward a renewed purpose through the everlasting love of Jesus.
Shared Voice by 10-42 Project, A First Responder Podcast
Inside ILEA: Women Leading, Training, And Changing The Culture
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The most honest conversations about culture don’t start with policy; they start with people. Assistant Director Sherry Poole and instructors Brooke McPherson and Naimah Saadiq invite us inside the Iowa Law Enforcement Academy to talk about what it really takes for women to thrive in a profession that’s been male‑dominated for decades. From day‑one nerves to front‑of‑room leadership, they share how visibility, mentorship, and clear boundaries change the learning environment and, ultimately, the way officers show up for their communities.
Sherry traces the distance from 1987, when being a woman at the academy felt isolating, to today’s growing representation. Brooke unpacks the subtle biases that still show up in training and on calls: the “I’ve got this” takeover, the “don’t strain yourself” babying, and how both can stall growth. Naimah explains the power of mindset, class leadership, and role models who make room for the human side of the job: uniforms that need to fit real bodies, instruction that respects anatomy and recovery, and a safe place to ask questions that once felt off‑limits.
We also get candid about motherhood, pregnancy, and policy. What does fair light duty look like when a pregnant sergeant is stripped of her title? How do two‑officer households juggle court dates, overnight shifts, and childcare without burning out? The team offers practical fixes, protect rank on light duty, budget for gear changes without shame, normalize pumping and recovery, build formal mentorship, and a reframe on coping that goes beyond alcohol to fitness, creativity, and community. If you care about officer wellness, de‑escalation, and retention, this is the blueprint for change that actually sticks.
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Setting The Stage At ILEA
SPEAKER_00Welcome back to another episode of the Shared Voices Podcast brought to you by the 1042 Project. And we are still at the Academy. They haven't kicked me out yet. So we're good right now. We got we got two interviews done, and I really think they were impactful. I was really impressed with the openness of all of you guys and the staff here and the and the leadership here to be willing to talk. I think that's pretty cool. And uh so if you didn't get to check out the last two episodes of the since we've been at the academy, go back and check those out. Um this one's gonna be a fun one too. I wanted to bring in a different aspect that I unfortunately cannot speak to, and that's okay. I am a male, and in this line of work, um the female side brings different challenges to it that honestly some of us guys don't even understand or know. So I'm not gonna pretend to know what you guys go through. I've worked with a lot of females throughout my career. Um amazing, uh I mean, worked with some amazing women. But is even though how you know how well I got to know them and got to see them work throughout their careers and how they handled themselves, I I still don't know what it was gonna go, what it was like. So um so number one, let's just start with introductions and then we're gonna go there. I got so many questions that are going through my head right now. Um, so let's just start off with the assistant director.
SPEAKER_03Uh hi, I'm Sherry Poole, and I'm the assistant director here at ILEA.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for allowing us to come in. Yeah. You are part of the command staff here. Yep. And and I love how you guys lead this place and you see it through your staff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. Uh, we're very lucky to work alongside them. I don't feel like we're a top-down organization. I think we lead within, and that's uh a mark of a good police officer or somebody in service leadership.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think that's pretty cool. You guys are very relational here. I think that's kind of neat. You care about the person. Yeah, literally, you guys are in the people business. Yep. And you do it well. Yes. And I know it's hard because we deal with hard things. People come here and sometimes they don't make it through the academies. There's different struggles, relationship issues, things happen. Um I love that you guys are addressing it and and are being open and allowing, you know, that you're allowing these people a safe place to start their career where they can start, you know, meeting with our or us and start addressing some of these issues they have coming into their career that they're not carrying in. Um and to talk about how to have healthy relationships and all that. So thank you for doing that. Um, I know that's intentional, that's not just something by accident that happens out here, and and I appreciate that. Yeah. All right, we got three guests here, so let's go ahead and introduce the second one. She's just over here smiling, a little nervous, but she got a big old smile on her face.
SPEAKER_01Good morning.
SPEAKER_00Morning.
SPEAKER_01My name is Brooke McPherson. I am a general instructor at the Iowa Law Enforcement Academy.
SPEAKER_00General instructor. So does that mean that you, is a general instructor mean that you just kind of fill in everywhere? Not really fill in, but you teach more than one thing? Or what so what is that role? Do we have specific roles here at the academy?
SPEAKER_01I do teach some classes. Um, and then I help kind of layer so with other instruction. Um there's a lot of hands on deck some in some of those uh areas like drivers training and defensive tactics. So I will uh be present and um kind of oversee or or or watch to make sure that the recruits are are getting things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's awesome. How long have you been here? You're new, aren't you? I am. I'll take it. I don't know if I've seen you out here.
SPEAKER_01No, this is my first official uh session.
SPEAKER_00Welcome. Thank you. I'm so glad you're here. Thank you. I mean, this the instructor roles out here are not just positions that anybody just feels like it's a calling. You have to have a calling on your life to do what you guys do, and I thank you for that. Were you ever a first responder?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I worked at the Ames Police Department for 17 years.
SPEAKER_00Okay, all right, cool. And Sherry, where are you?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh I was at the Boone Police Department for 11 years.
SPEAKER_00Boone Police Department, awesome. Man, that town has a lot of stuff that happens there. Man, it's it's yeah. It's a great town. It's a great town. I just thought they're their law enforcement up there. See a lot of things. It's it's kind of unfortunate sometimes. They're just things that have happened in that town.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Beautiful town, though, one of my favorites. All right, then we got our third guest. How are you?
SPEAKER_02I'm good. I'm Naima Sadiq. I'm an instructor here as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you've been here for how long?
SPEAKER_02It'll be four years in December. Dang.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I've seen I rem I remember you from the I think the first time I came here. You always have a smile on your face. Like I always came here and kind of like I had nerves, right? Like last time I was here, I was an officer, and it was but I came in here, and I think your office is somewhere like towards down there, and your bright smile. Every time I walk in, it's it's it's very welcoming. Oh, absolutely. So thank you. Thank you. And I've talked to a lot of recruits that come in, come through this academy, and people really um admire you. They love having you as an instructor. Um they speak very highly of you and just know that means a lot to our organization, how much you care.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for saying that.
From 1987 To Now: What Changed
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's what I love about you guys, is so there's so much heart in this. It's not a factory, it's not a factory of first responders. You guys care about it, and you're very intentional about the process that it goes through. So I want to jump into it, and and and this can go where anybody wants to go. But when I came to the academy, I was 20 years old, obviously a male. I was engaged at the time, and there were so many challenges, relational-wise, at home. I didn't know how to handle it all. It got very ugly. Um, and on the other podcast, you guys have heard me talk about that. But let's talk about some of the challenges, especially when you come to the academy. What is it like when you come to the academy and what are some of the challenges that that you guys may face or have faced that that the others may not? Because I'm just it's a let's just address the issue. It's a male-dominated field, right? Mostly it's people say all they refer to police officers, a guys, right? It's it's been male dominated. Luckily, that's shifted, thank goodness, because we need the heart of our female first responders, because you guys, um, yeah, none you guys have more impact, I think, than the men officers. I really do. Just because um you care different. You care different, and I think that's pretty cool. So coming to the academy, what is it like as a female? And let's just did you go to did you go through ILEA? I did. What year?
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00Put your calculators away, people.
SPEAKER_03I know, right? Um yes, uh uh 1987, uh, so a while ago. And um I would say as a female, um it's it was very uh probably isolating. Um I would use that word loosely, but it it um as a female you um don't have quite the interaction um with the instructors, at least we didn't um back then. And so you relied on there was three other females in my class, so we relied on each other heavily. Um so so that was cool, and you you really get those um relationships that are lifelong. Um but it was a it was a different time also in 1987. Um and you know, and women were still forging a path. Um, so it wasn't unusual for to have one woman in the entire county, yeah. Um, you know, that was a part of everything.
SPEAKER_00Are you seeing that change?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and it's it's awesome. And since I've even been at the chair here in the last three years, we've seen um women really increase in the numbers that are going through Basic Academy, which I am just thrilled about because I too, there they were so underrepresented for a long time. And women just bring different skill sets um than men do um to a mostly masculine field. But the level that women can de-escalate uh situations and um engage in community relations, I think is is a skill set that they have uh that that everybody needs. And I think agencies are finally recognizing that. And really, um, it doesn't matter if a a female is five foot three or six foot, um, you know, they can do the job if they're trained properly.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. It doesn't, I mean the size doesn't matter. It used to be way back a long a while, long time ago, and law enforcement had to be a certain height, you had to be all these these physical things. Um, luckily that went away. Yeah, it's not like we go to work and have to carry heavy stuff. Yeah, it's like it's it's mental, but it's not physically. Um, so I'm glad you're seeing that change. And I think it's women like you who went through in the 80s that are paved the way for the younger generation to be able to come in and have a little bit different experience. But I could imagine those three people you were with, you probably created a pretty big bond with.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Respect, Bias, And Command Presence
SPEAKER_00Because how big you know, classes are usually around what, 40, 50? Yep, yeah. So if you only got one or two or three females, yeah. Um guys are kind of jerks. I'm just gonna be real. Like so many of my first responder friends, and I'm sure I did it in my time. Sometimes we treat female officers different, right? Let's be real. We do, and it's and it's disgusting. Like I don't know why it happens, but um, it's just like they like when you hire, I've noticed when I've hired when we hire new officers on our department when I was working, a new female would come on, and she would and it seemed like people would treat her different than they would the guys. And what I learned is from working with so many of you is don't treat us different. Like you guys the most angry I've seen some officers is when on a call, a male will walk up and take over the call and basically kind of tell the female to step aside, and then that's and that's that's not right, that's horrible. I can only imagine what that's feeling like. But are you seeing any of that type of shifting coming in? Any of you guys, as far as on the male side, I know my bros can be we can be harsh. Are you seeing any change?
SPEAKER_03I I I think some recruits, you know, they're very open about um some males don't empower them or don't um um give them their due, if you will, um and kind of underestimate them, uh, whereas other ones um, you know, are very accepting. So I think it it ranges both ways today, and that's why I think it's so important uh the roles that Brooke and Naeema have is because they're um every day in front of these recruits that are coming in, and they build a camaraderie with the female recruits uh a lot more than I do, and um, it empowers them, it empowers the females to see two role models like them that have really been successful, not only in the careers, but post-career, and now they're training all of these officers that are gonna go out to their communities.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I love that. So you started in what year did you start your career?
SPEAKER_01Um I graduated from ILA in 2006.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So you were class number, you're 212. 212, okay. I was class 176.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02Oh me? Uh yeah, I graduated in 2009. I was class 229. 229. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we all went through Iowa Law Enforcement Academy then. Okay. No out-of-staters or the did anybody do the brief academy, the the eight-week one? Okay. Went through the whole thing. Yeah. When you came through, was it three females to a class? Or are the numbers going up?
SPEAKER_01I had more than three females. Oh, good. Um, and I guess I did have a little bit of a different experience, to be honest. I don't remember feeling different coming through the academy being a woman compared to a to a male. Um, and maybe it was just in that time frame, you know, you're just trying to get through it.
SPEAKER_00And so um, well, I hope it's changing is the what is the reason why the guys are butts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, to speak to what you're saying, like I can see in the career how it could almost um, you know, switch from maybe being too harsh, treating differently, um, and not allowing them to kind of take that primary role to like almost favoritate uh you know, showing favoritism and almost kind of babying them along, right?
SPEAKER_00Um that's gotta torque you off. I know used to the female officers I worked with, I mean, torque them off.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, there's a lot of strong women personalities in law enforcement as well. And so sometimes, I mean, we want you guys to be kind, right? And we want um to be treated respectfully, but we also want it almost kind of led to a feeling of sometimes you have to perform and sometimes you have to prove something to the males.
SPEAKER_00Um so do women square each other up like guys do? I mean, guys, it's immediately we square each other up. Is he gonna be the better officer? Is he stronger than me? Is he gonna are we doing that? Or are you girls are probably we just care you guys connect and or let's be real, or is it can it be ugly?
SPEAKER_01I think it can't be can be ugly. I think it depends on personality. Like what type of personality is that person to begin with? I mean, we have very competitive individuals. I'm a competitive individual. I like to improve and better myself, but I'm also like rooting for my my count, you know, my my girls. So um I think it just kind of depends on the personality in the first place.
SPEAKER_00So let me let me ask you this. As a if if if your young girl listening wants to get into law enforcement, is it safe? Do you feel like it's safe?
Mentorship, Boundaries, And Safety
SPEAKER_02I feel like it's safe. My my experience was completely different because I was the only female in my academy class when I went through back in 2009. Um and uh I had no expectations when I came here. I was fortunate that the woman to my left, Brooke, what immediately took me under her wing before I even became a law enforcement officer. I was working in a civilian role with Ames PD. Um and we'd work out and do uh a lot of have a lot of good conversations together. And it made me want to complete it even more because if I get to work along someone like Brooke, who was extremely smart, who is always encouraging, it's like, oh, I can get through it too. So when I got here and realized I'd be the only female, I I don't know why. I already had the assumption there weren't many female police officers because our our agency didn't have a lot. So it wasn't any, it wasn't an expectation, but there was a spotlight. I mean, I stand out and morning one one way um just because my shining personality, but I'm kidding. But uh I tried to come into it with a positive mindset, and I really think that that mindset was created initially at the agency that I came from. And so when I came to the academy, I was going into it with the understanding that I'd be coming back to somewhere where I would work. And and everyone knows I like to have fun. And fortunately, um, as you know, here at the academy, we have class leadership as well. And so I didn't know how unique it was because when you're the the it's your experience, you're the only one. Um, I was voted class leader of my class, class president back in the day.
SPEAKER_00That doesn't surprise me.
SPEAKER_02And well, thank you for saying that. But uh so I didn't know my experience was completely different. I think that what I have appreciated for having generations in a leader like Sherry now is realizing when you're going through something, not just wanting to fit in, but being able to stand out in a way that your classmates then take on your attributes and learn from you. And it's this transactional relationship instead of this one-sided monolithic view of I'm a female, so this is what you expect, or I'm a male, this is what you expect. And to have me kind of in the middle of that in a leadership role with my class as well, it brought a different dynamic in. And then now as an instructor, having both AD Poole and now Brooke, a really good friend of mine working, we all have different perspectives. But at the end of the day, I think what we've learned is that we're gonna give each other, and my favorite word is grace. And so when they have questions uh from the most simple things, just as like their uniform fits, I wouldn't even imagine to talk to a male instructor about how my uniform was fitting or what I'm going through that day personally, because you know you don't want to draw that type of attention. But, you know, hopefully they feel that they're we're approachable and you can say those little nuanced things that people don't think about when it comes to being a female in the in the job that we we do have a different anatomy and it is going to require some adjustments and say for like DT or running or the physical aspects.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and I think it's watching the public react with female officers is interesting as well, because I think sometimes they treat the the female side way different than they do the guy side. It seems like if if if a male uh male officer comes up and is firm with somebody, that's a firm, confident officer. But if you come up with that same confidence and voice, you are a beep. And and one and it's and it's weird. One's confidence, and the other one is supposedly considered a beep who's on her beep. And it's like, we don't have to deal with that.
SPEAKER_02That's very true. Yeah. And when we teach command presence, that's a big thing we talk about too is how do you demonstrate command presence in if you are in a female role and not appear to be bossy, even if you're saying the same things that there's a you know, there's things that come along, even size, right? For a male officer who who's of a smaller stature, being more assertive, might appear like, oh, he's got short man syndrome, right? And so we we all have unique challenges, but that is something that you know we have to consider.
Class Leadership And Representation
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that'd be tough. And then and let's just throw this out there women officers get hit on a lot by the public and and by sometimes within people in their departments, and that's gotta be tough. I never walked around my department and felt like all the women were trying to get my attention and hit on me, but I know the women feel that way. Now that we're like you guys deal with that, that we don't have to deal with, and sometimes um officers can be out of line, and that's gotta be uncomfortable in your guys' shoes, especially if it's a command staff or something. You know, us guys, we don't have to worry about that. That's gotta be really uncomfortable to deal with in an uncomfortable situation. Um so how do you guys, I mean, how I say I call everybody guys, just know that. Like how do you how do you do that in a safe way if you are a female officer? I know we're kind of going way different here, but if you are a female officer and the command staff is part of their problem, what what what can we do when those issues come up? If somebody's department is treating them different or or what am I trying to say here? And that's fine, we can edit this out. Um how do you handle yourself in that situation, I guess? Because it's gotta be harder because you if every time an officer looks at you or somebody in the street says something to you, if you brought it up to your administration, um, I know these, I know a lot of the administration, a lot of them's gonna tell you to suck it up, get over it, but it can't be like that. We can't be telling our female officers to suck that up. So when we do have that happen on the street, or if or if you have it happen in your department, how do you guys, how have you handled with that, how have you seen that handled um in-house? And I know it's a touchy subject, um, but I do know that it happens.
SPEAKER_03And I I I think from uh coaching some of the females that have gone through the academy and have had to deal with some of those issues is coaching them through of drawing a line in the sand and being prepared for if you draw a line in the sand, you're gonna be called X, Y, and Z. But if you don't draw a line in the sand, this is what you're gonna be called as well. And so you have to really um stay true to who you are and um not let the rumors or not let what other people are saying about you determine your path. And so I think it's really important that females have mentors. Uh, I think it's important anybody has mentors, but it's really difficult for females that are sole in their departments or sole in their counties because they don't have that person they can bounce ideas off of. Uh, but some of the bigger agencies have done a phenomenal job with uh females going back and having mentors by other females. And then if something like that happens, you have somebody that they can talk to, talk it through with, okay, this is what I did, or this is what I should have done, and and kind of give them ideas of what to say and how to prepare themselves for it.
SPEAKER_00That's so wise. And your leadership on that for them has to be amazing. Like you've because if you've never gone through it, you don't know. And to have somebody like you who's been there and had to deal with probably you know early on in the 80s where this stuff wasn't really being talked about, it was shut up and get your job done. And yeah, for sure. I love that you're willing to to talk about that openly because it's it's something that needs to be addressed. And and part of the reason why I bring this up is is I want to all of the all of the female listeners to know if you're not a first responder and it's something you're looking into looking into, it's safe and there's a safe way to do it. There really is, and there's there's mentors you can bring around you, there is a safe way to do it, and and and honestly, like anything in our life, it sounds like Sherry, we got to put boundaries on, we have to be put intentional boundaries on that as we start our career. Like otherwise, you'll you'll cross those boundaries, people will will not know what's okay to say or not to say, and sometimes that can be confusing because what was said the first one day was okay, but now it's not. I think when you set those boundaries and you're and you're firm in them and everybody understands those boundaries, it's a little healthier.
SPEAKER_03Yes, correct. And I and I do think people miscommunicate those boundaries, you know. And again, we've had strong females come in here and right off the bat, they're like, My job is to get through this academy and be the best officer I want to be, and they don't have time for anything else. And instantly, you know, they're they're you know, they're the person that nobody really wants to communicate with, or they're called certain names because of those boundaries. And so it's really uh that's why I think it's so important to have females on staff that can talk them through like, no, you're doing the right thing. You've set your boundaries and um you do your job.
SPEAKER_00How much what so out of the staff here, what's the percentage of women or men? Do we know? Like a wild guess?
Motherhood, Light Duty, And Stigma
SPEAKER_03Uh so we have uh Naeema and Brooke that are police officers, uh female former police officers that are females, and then we have two other females uh that were in the victim victim advocate roles uh uh that are that are females as well.
SPEAKER_00Okay, cool. I love that. This is this academy is not male dominated at all. No. Yeah, like when you come here, you know, it it you're it's not a male-dominated place, and I love how much that's changed over the year uh years, and I love that like you three are open to talking about it because it's happening, we just need to talk about it. And I and I think it's pretty cool. So I don't think where I want to go down on this next road, but what what are what are some of the relational ship issues that can come up as a female first responder trying to have a healthy relationship, but yet being in the in the position where y'all are working, where it's where it is male dominated, there's a lot of danger, there's a lot of I mean it's gotta be different. Like my my sweet wife, I couldn't imagine her putting on a uniform and going out, like uh it's gotta be hard in those relationships because I'm sure sometimes you have to deal with the you know, the person that you're having a relationship with also trying to baby you or trying to so what's what is that like trying to it's have a relationship as a female first responder, as a female police officer. Um are the issues kind of the same they are with guys, or what is that like? Do you guys walk out the same door? What when you walk out the door? Is it the same discussions that we're having as we're walking out? I know these are dumb questions, but I gotta know.
SPEAKER_01Well, I would say I was fortunate that my husband was also in law enforcement or is also in law enforcement. So um we worked at the same department.
SPEAKER_00That makes sense.
SPEAKER_01And we we actually worked the same shift before we had kids.
SPEAKER_00God bless you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that we get that a lot. That oh man, I couldn't work with my wife or husband, but um, for us it worked, and it was a lot of fun when we worked together on shift. Um so I think that you know it would it was easier for me having a partner that knew the job, knew the people that um I was gonna be working with or having contact with um on a daily basis in our community. And um we were able to have conversations about you know our cases or our you know contacts and stuff. So I have a little bit of a different experience than maybe what other women will in law enforcement.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's a unique dynamic of its own. I couldn't imagine working at the same time with with I work with my spouse now and I love it, love and work with her all the time, but I couldn't imagine being on one side of town while I'm dealing with a drunk and hearing uh gunshots going off on the other side of town where my wife's at. I couldn't imagine what that must be like. That's a whole podcast in and of itself. Like, wow. Yeah, that'd be that would be scary. Um, so did would did you come into the career already having a relationship? Um Yeah. And you don't have to share any of this if you don't want to. I just I just know that most of the stuff we deal with in our organization is relational, really it's it's it's relationship issues, money issues, mental health issues.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I think relationship issues is a norm for any service industry. And I think that goes out, you know, any first responder, uh, nurses, like anybody that's doing shift work, anybody that has um that deals with trauma, and because it's really easy as a first responder, as a police officer, to to kind of uh bury a lot of the stuff that you see, and you want to protect your spouse, whether it's your wife or your husband or your partner, whatever it may be, um you want to protect them from what you see. And so a lot of that stays at work and you don't bring it home. And then so you don't have an outlet because your friends may or may not be um in the law enforcement realm. And so uh the more you bury it, the more it bubbles up in ways that you don't realize. And so I think it's really uh law enforcement's one of those things, like nobody nobody talks about it, or if they talk about it, they make a joke. And you know, we have a warped sense of humors, and that gets us through the shift and it it makes for great stories. Um uh, but on the other hand, it's relationships are just really hard when you when you can't process the trauma that you see every day because you're dealing with trauma, you're dealing with dysfunction, and sometimes that dysfunction follows you right back to home.
Shift Work, Families, And Burnout
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and for you know, for us guys, we get to walk out and get in our patrol car and sometimes not have to worry about the kids and everything else going on. You know, we kind of have this freedom or whatever, we get to skip out the door, but you well, you guys guys all the time, but you girls don't get to don't get to have that experience. So it's gotta be unique when you're also a mother. Or let's talk about that.
SPEAKER_03So I had my daughter when I was a police officer, and I went back to work uh six or seven weeks after I had her. And so I was working night shift and uh going on about three or four hours sleep a night thinking I could do it all. I could watch her during the day and I could work night shifts, and um boy, that soon you know was a slap in the face that you can't do it all, which is you know a ding for for if you want to be the you know the greatest mother ever. And and all of a sudden you're just like, I'm not doing anybody any good, and I'm actually a danger in my job. So you gotta start figuring that out as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So much of uh what we do in our line of work, I mean, our kids see it, they're affected by it. We think they're not, but they see it all, they feel it all. And it's gotta be hard to walk out, you know, walking out the house knowing that you know your your mother mind is always on. Your mother mind is always on. That would be a different tough, especially working all these different shifts. Like that would be really tough for daycare, for anything like that. Sure. And then, you know, court dates for me when I was in it, like my wife worked from home, like court day was no issue. I could just go, that'd be completely different if you got three kids, and that's just unique challenge.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I think you know, that's across the board again with any first responders uh that you're trying to just balance it all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is, man.
SPEAKER_02I want to say from the other side, um, so I don't have children, but I remember early on feeling like a silent. Violent pressure to not have children. Like it was a burden on the agency for like, oh, don't tell me you're gonna get pregnant because you you're a young officer, and those comments are going on. Um, not not just in general in in life, right? As females are getting into the profession and then like a pressure of fitting back into your uniform, fitting back into your vest. And I remember thinking, like, oh no, I don't want to have to do that, or watching, you know, a female officer go on light duty and be like stripped of her role as a police officer. And it was almost looked on like this, like I said, like silent burden, like, oh, we've got to cover shifts because they're pregnant. And just recently, even having conversations uh with a female officer around the state who's extremely nervous because they became pregnant and they're, you know, don't know what to do in terms of like their roles because they have a physical function and what that looks like, um, and navigating the pressure to not have children. And then outside of the state, learning uh a sergeant struggle of being a female sergeant going on light duty and being stripped of the title, even though there's other desk sergeants, not even being able to like kind of listen to the radio and having conversations like my preg pregnancy isn't a disability, like I can still make informed decisions. And so I think now looking back early on, it really guided my decisions and being really nervous about having a child in this profession because there's so many added elements.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for saying that because that's true. And I've been guilty of it when I was a young officer. When a female officer got pregnant, oh gosh, the shifts are gonna change, she's gonna go to light duty, of course. Gosh, she just had one last year. What is wrong? She don't even like her husband. I'm like, you get this is what happens. Um wow, yeah. Thank you for bringing that up. That's uh that's real, that's a real issue. Um sorry, let me read this real quick. So do you think people, so do you think like people are holding off on families, probably?
SPEAKER_02I definitely think people are holding off on family.
Coping, Vices, And Healthy Outlets
SPEAKER_00Sorry, I can get off this thought. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And you know, even as uh we see the newer female officers coming through now of when you talk about wanting to show improve, you don't think about I know the real pressure is the physical demand. And think about it, as a woman who has a child, your body changes, right? And so how you fit into your vest, like, oh great, now it's gonna cost us another vest, or now you know you got, I mean, I didn't even know my assistant director came back six weeks later. Six weeks later, does your uniform even fit the same? Like, do you you're you're you know, if you're gonna breastfeed? I don't know if I could say that in the bathroom or the locker room, yeah. Yeah, uh, you know, and so I hear stories from you know officers that came before me, and I'm like, oh no, I don't want to have that added.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's unfortunate, it really is. That the the the women are thinking that way that they getting pregnant would be a a burden.
SPEAKER_02And so when you talk about relational strain, you know, when you're young and a guy wants to get married or wants to have children and you're like, I just got into my job, and I know um, you know, I've been asked a lot to leave my profession, and so it's a different type of dynamic, I would say.
SPEAKER_00Wow. I love your guys' openness to talk about that. I think that's I think that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01I think it it definitely limits um, you know, how big they want to make their family as well. So just with there being a lot of expectations, right? Um, you're going to court, you have extra training, you may be mandatoried. And so it isn't a normal um, you know, eight-hour shift. So that impacts, you know, um how many children you might have. My husband and I kind of made that decision. I always wanted to kind of have a larger family. Um, and then with both of us being in law enforcement, once we had kids, we were like ships passing the night because it was cheaper for us to be on opposite shifts than to try to find daycare for really odd hours. So we, you know, saw each other when we were um coming home and one was leaving for work. And like you said, Sherry, I mean, I remember um working overnights and I had, you know, a three or a four-year-old that wasn't going to school yet, and I'd put him on the couch with me and we'd watch cartoons, and you'd wake up four hours later, like, oh my gosh, I fell asleep, you know, but still having to do those, still having to work when you're why God made women stronger, more wise.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you guys have all the gifts and talents, and uh uh we just kind of got I don't know what rib you guys took, but it must have been our knowledge rib, our I don't know what it is, but you guys are you gals are made different. You just are, and I I couldn't imagine going through this career with the the I don't want to say issues, the the the things that come with it. Being a human, right? Yeah, and having a family. Yeah. Wow. Well, we're gonna close this up, but I do want to do more of these down the road if you guys um are open to it. I really appreciate this, but we've got about 35 minutes, and there's so many more questions I want to ask. And I do want to apologize. I know I ask really dumb questions, like really dumb, and sometimes they're they're um I just kind of say how it is. Like guys, I've seen the guys, first responders, can be jerks, can treat them different, and it's it's it's disgusting, and I just like to call it out because I couldn't imagine what that would be like to go to go through. Um so thank you for that.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_00This is a good question. Before we close out. I'll I'll pass me. I don't even know this is the question, but this is the question I have. Do we do the are the vices that we do, we numb our pain with our struggles, do they change for women? Like with guys, it's very much adrenaline, uh, alcohol, gambling, like skydiving, like just like is there any is is it different? How how or is it generally alcohol is the number one thing? Is it all just the same? Because we're all just humans. It's not like uh uh your sex matters, or is there a difference?
SPEAKER_03Well I don't uh I I I can't speak for for everybody else. I would just say, you know, uh for me um uh they were different. Uh it was never alcohol, it was never gambling. I was just uh I have a very addictive personality. Um and so I know that about myself. So I stay away from things that I know I are not good that I would be addicted to. Um for me it was more sports. Um for me it was uh reading, that type of stuff. Um so that's that's kind of what I was drawn to when I was a police officer, is is that type of stuff.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and I noticed a lot of female officers are more into their fitness than guys are too. I feel like that's a thing that sometimes fitness is a way of escape. I don't know, is there any other vices or anything that like and when I say that is things things we run from, right?
SPEAKER_02I didn't know this was a vice until working with Chap and talking, and because I never had the these conversations before, but I would literally capitalize every second of my day. So I was working patrol and Brooke knows this. I would leave my patrol shift and then I was in a full-time band. And so I would travel around and I would play in this band, or I'm going to rehearsals, or I was a backup dancer for another band. So I had this whole separate identity, you know, that I formed. So I didn't really think about, you know, the job. Like I deal with something, and then in my friend group, I didn't have in my friends outside of law enforcement, no one um that I talked to about it. And often I disappear into these realms where no one even knew I was a police officer. I so I maybe think was accepting a whole different identity. So I completely separated these lives and then I take off that uniform and literally forget about the job and then capitalize. I maybe was sleeping maybe two, three hours and maybe it was being busy all the time.
Closing Thoughts And Future Plans
SPEAKER_00Being busy, that's what it was. Another thing is first we're we sign up for all the overtime, it's busy, busy, busy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so maybe that was that was my well. Thank you for answering my dumb questions. I'll have more, I'm sure, down the road. But um, sometimes I like to ask the questions that I hear other men ask me. And uh so thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. And we're gonna close this up. Thank you for all being on, and we'll be back at the academy recording some more. I know we kind of just touched on some, you know, we only want to inch deep on a lot of things, um, but we'll go deeper. So thank you all for being here. I appreciate it. Um, y'all are a blessing, and thank you for doing what you do. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Thank you.