Healing Tools For First Responders

The toughest part isn’t the call; it’s what echoes after. We sat down with a physician assistant who runs a ketamine clinic and a therapist who treats first responders to unpack how evidence‑based tools can make trauma feel survivable again. If you’ve only heard about ketamine from street stories or ER sedation, this conversation will reset the frame: controlled, low‑dose treatment can increase neuroplasticity, reduce the emotional punch of memories, and lower cravings that keep people stuck. Add structured therapy, and the path forward gets clearer.

We walk through how ketamine works, why it’s tightly regulated, and what a typical protocol looks like. Then we dig into the power of pairing medicine with psychotherapy, where insights from sessions carry into counseling and make reprocessing less triggering. EMDR gets a plain‑spoken breakdown, so it’s no longer mysterious or intimidating. The goal is simple: help the brain revisit hard moments without panic and install healthier beliefs that last.

Personal stories bring urgency to the science. A pediatric code that changed a father’s life, the high‑school collapse that pushed an EMT to become a PA, and the post‑COVID ER chaos that led to building a calmer clinic for first responders. We talk openly about stigma, addiction fears, and why many see alcohol use drop as they heal. You’ll hear how peer support lowers the barrier to trying something new, and why an objective, self‑compassionate view; can be the hinge for recovery.

If you serve and carry images you avoid, there’s hope with safe, supervised ketamine therapy, EMDR, and steady talk therapy. Reach out with your questions, share this with a partner or teammate, and help us keep these tools in the hands of the people who need them most. Follow the show, leave a review, and tell us what you want us to explore next.

If you or someone you know is in crisis and at risk of self-harm, please call or text 988, the suicide and crisis lifeline. 

To contact us directly send an email to  Dan@10-42project.org  or call 515-350-6274
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome back to the Shared Voices Podcast from the 1042 Project. My name is Jake Bealy, and I'm here with Amanda Seave and Troy Bliss. Troy is a therapist. Amanda does ketamine therapy, and we're going to be talking about uh how they got into that, some of their backgrounds, and what they have to offer first responders. So, first things first, who wants to do their own introduction? Amanda.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

I guess I'll go first. Um, my name's Amanda Steve. I am a physician assistant currently. I own Revitalize. I'm a treatment special therapist specialist therapist uh for ketamine. Um so I do ketamine treatments on patients. Um so uh initially I was um do you want me to get into the history or just intro?

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Um so I was a first responder starting in 2013. I've been a first responder for the last 12 years, a fourth generation first responder, um, paramedic uh firefighter, and then went back to PA school after five years. And so then um I've been a PA for the last seven to eight years now. Initially I worked in the emergency department and realized there was a huge need in mental health. Um I got pulled into a mental health office, learned more about ketamine treatments, and I've been doing um ketamine treatments for patients for the last two and a half years and just opened my own clinic in November, realizing the need that is there for first responders and just built an environment that is uh growing for first responders to have a nice relaxation and uh meditation to help improve and get better.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Beautiful. And for those of you who haven't listened to our other episode, Amanda has been interviewed before and we talked a little bit about our connection. Amanda was a big part of uh my recovery journey. And really, probably the only reason I was willing to go out on a limb and try ketamine therapy is because I had uh a personal connection and someone that I could trust. And then on top of that, someone who's been a first responder and has been around first responders. And you know, I'm very appreciative for all of that. I'm glad you're here again, Troy.

Why Ketamine And How It Works

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, so um one of the things that's funny is I actually go back with Amanda. She was one of my teachers uh in my paramedic program. So that's how I met her husband, and then that's how I kind of got to know her. But um, a little bit about me. Uh, I've been a first responder now for the last seven years. My career started uh up in Ames. I was a police officer at Iowa State University, so I got to deal with all the college kids, which was so much fun. Exciting. Yeah. And then uh decided to become a trader and switch to the fire EMS world. So worked full time for Newton Fire uh for three years and then recently went to Pella where I work full-time as a paramedic. Um, one of the things that my time as a first responder taught me is that we need a little bit more support and maybe some resources when it comes to mental health. Um, I lost two friends and former coworkers to suicide um during my time uh as a first responder. And that was pretty difficult, not just for me, but for the departments as well to navigate. And that's a big reason why I decided to go back to school, get my master's degree uh as a therapist. And uh now I also work at Frontline Therapy, which is a private practice in West Des Moines. Um they work exclusively with first responders, military personnel, and their families. So that has been an incredibly rewarding experience for me to be able to give back to the people that you know I can relate to as far as some of the traumas and that kind of stuff that they experience. Um it's been great to lower those walls. As you know, not every cop is ready to get super emotionally vulnerable. Um, so that's been uh that's been kind of a blessing for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

So Oh, sorry, I got one last thing. Go ahead, I do want to just give a professional courtesy caveat. So um my thoughts and opinions reflected in this podcast uh are not a reflection of my employers, uh, they're a reflection of me and my personal experiences. So noted. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

So yeah, I'm real excited to have both of you guys here today as at the same time, nonetheless, because you both have such incredible, just a combination of experience, personal, professional, and you've been first responders, you've helped first responders. There just really isn't a lot of that. There aren't a lot of people who really understand the unique challenges of being a first responder, who then take it upon themselves to go and try and solve some of those challenges. So with that being said, um I think let's talk about, let's just talk touch a little bit on ketamine to begin with. I think that's probably the piece of this puzzle here that's most maybe scary or misunderstood. So if you could just get a maybe an overview, quick overview of what ketamine is and how it can help.

unknown 5:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

So ketamine was recently, I think 2018 is when um it was initially approved for intranasal uh treatments for treatment-resistant depression, is what they call it. So insurance will now cover the sessions when you have failed two oral antidepressants outpatient. Um so that's technically just two different pills in two different categories, and then insurance will cover it. So basically how it works is that it I like to say it kind of takes out one file at a time. So it like quiets the brain while you're going through the session. Um, so it's works on receptors that are good with mood regulation and memory formation. So during the treatment sessions, it seems like the brain goes through different files and pulls out a different file, thinks about it, and then puts it away and replaces it with more of a positive outlook on it. So when you're not in the session and you think about it later on, these thoughts are not as um anxious provoking. Um, you don't have as much body response when you're thinking about it when you're not in the academy sessions. Um, initially, the when you start treatment, it's twice a week uh for four weeks, and then we slowly decrease the um the, I guess, increase the the duration in between the sessions. Um, and everyone's different, everyone tolerates it differently, all depending on the stressors that have been going on during the treatment sessions, in between the treatment sessions, um, but then slowly take it away and then until you kind of maintain, so you're kind of call it, we call it neuroplasticity. So basically building in this new framework in your brain so that way forming new memories and not necessarily erasing your memories. I feel like a lot of times I emphasize that you still think of them, but it's not as, I guess, stress-provoking.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Yeah, one of the ways that I like to kind of describe how ketamine changes the brain is I like to use the analogy of like highways and streets. And a lot of times when somebody experiences trauma, um, it damages one of those roadways. So it causes, you know, potholes and cracks in the road and that kind of stuff. And what ketamine does is, you know, as Amanda mentioned, that neuroplasticity, it creates new neural networks in the brain. So it creates new roads that one can travel on to kind of bypass those damaged roads. Um, so that's kind of one of the ways that I like to describe in lay terms uh some of the benefits of what ketamine can do.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

And I will say, ketamine seem to be, I like to say it for the first responder world. Now it can be beneficial for everybody. However, um, sometimes I feel like as first responders, we are put in this um career and we don't feel like we can talk about our feelings, our thoughts with a therapist a lot of times. But this allows you to process certain thoughts and memories without saying it out loud initially. So then that way when you go talk to somebody, either a therapist, a family member, a friend, um, it's a little bit easier to bring it up and to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah. And in that regard, I think um ketamine therapy shares some similarities with um EMDR therapy. Yeah. Um again, it kind of takes those traumas and makes them a little less um activating, right? When someone thinks about them less distressing. Um so that's kind of uh that's a neat thing. That's something that I'm going through right now, training on and stuff like that. So yeah, yeah.

Safety, Stigma, And Addiction Concerns

SPEAKER_00 8:06

So you mentioned EMDR. I definitely want to come come back and talk about that because that's another very effective treatment for trauma. Um before we stop or move on from ketamine, uh, a lot of first responders, cops in particular, especially the old school cops, hear ketamine and think uh bad things or they associate it with, you know, somebody running around naked or whatever. What type of drug is ketamine and why shouldn't a person worry so much about that?

SPEAKER_03 8:34

So, long story short, for the cops that are listening, um it is a derivative PCP. Um it's classified as dissociative, but the dose that they use is is not quite to the point where you see the guys that are running around naked. Um, you might like see some shapes, see some colors, see some different things during your sessions, but not enough where you can't, you're out of touch of reality. You always know, you can always I call it grounding yourself. So wake up, you know, feel things, touch things, and know that, hey, we're still here, things are okay. So even if you're having some bad thoughts, which doesn't happen too often, and it's more like positive thoughts, um, you are able to reground yourself or, you know, talk through some situations as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

No, sorry. And a lot of first responders, you know, myself, uh, a lot of the people that come to us at 1042 have dealt with addiction. Um, that's certainly part of my story. Um, everyone knows it's a part of Dan's story. Uh, what can you say about someone who's concerned about addiction with regard to ketamine?

SPEAKER_03 9:35

Yeah. So uh the ketamine is regulated so tightly as far as we have to report it. If it's going through insurance, we do have to report every treatment session, IV treatments, it no more than twice a week. Uh, and then we slow slowly decrease it down to once a week. Um because it's so regulated so much, there's little chance that the patient can become addicted to it. Um, from my experience, it doesn't seem like patients are are coming to the session because they can't they have to have it, and your body doesn't have that addiction reaction to it like you know, other illegal substances.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

That's definitely been my experience. And I think you know, I I can kind of speak based on some experiences and conversations I've had with other first responders that have come through 1042, and that the concern I think might be that you go and you get quote unquote high, right? You it it ketamine has quite an effect on you acutely. Um, and the concern I think for some people is like, is that going to lead me to then start to crave other things more? That has not been my experience at all. Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Right. Yeah. You know, one of the other things that I would tell people that are maybe a little uh skeptical or reluctant to um try ketamine would be that it's actually it's been around since like the 70s. It's been used in medical application, mostly in ERs and ORs as a uh sedative and uh an analgesic to treat pain as well. Um, but not until more recently has it been looked at for its mental health application. Um so, you know, one of the nice things about ketamine and the research behind its mental health application is it's been FDA approved since the 70s. So it's a lot easier for them to go through, jump through those hoops and stuff like that to get it approved for another type of treatment than it would be for a drug that's brand new to the market. Um so that that's kind of it's it's been time tested uh as a you know a drug, its side effects are pretty well understood, um, that kind of thing. Um yeah, and as Amanda mentioned too, it's this is not street ketamine. This is not what you see, the guy that's running around, you know, naked, screaming, going nuts. Uh this is closely medically monitored, administered. Um, you know, you're you're being your vitals are being assessed during treatment, that kind of stuff. So every safety feature that can be put into place is is been put into place.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

And what what I've noticed too is so a lot of lot a lot of times people do medicate themselves with alcohol. Um I have started patients on treatments, even with the alcohol, try and do them first appointments in the morning so that way we don't have as much alcohol on board. But it seems like as the treatment goes on, they seem to drink less and less and less. And so their alcohol consumption actually does come down, or any other type of um addiction, it seems to decrease because the ketamine it replaces those memories that we're trying to cover up with those other substances.

Ketamine Plus Talk Therapy

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah, yeah, you nailed it. That was that was exactly my experience. I I personally got to a point with alcohol where I didn't really even want to drink, but I it was the only thing I could find for a long time that would would shut off the noise. And as I started doing ketamine treatments over time, really I mean, really pretty quickly, but over a couple sessions, the noise got a lot quieter and also they didn't need, I didn't need there was nothing to turn off or less to turn off. So that's I'm glad you touched on that. And Troy, I understand that you've kind of been you've had some clients uh who are doing both ketamine therapy and coming to you for traditional therapies. How's yeah, how's that look?

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah, I mean, obviously I can't disclose individual accounts or anything like that, but I would say as a whole, I think the two things being used in tandem both make each more effective. Um, you know, I've had clients talk about how some of the discoveries or epiphanies that they've had in ketamine sessions um are kind of more unearthed and more processed through that traditional psychotherapy following those treatments. Um, and and honestly, when I first learned about ketamine therapy, it was ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. So it was literally someone giving you traditional therapy either while or shortly after you experience the ketamine therapy. Um, so that's how I learned about it. So when I, you know, talked to Amanda and learned a bit more about how they do it at her practice and that kind of stuff, I was like, oh, okay, this is interesting. I didn't know it had um so many different kinds of applications.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Um one of the other things that I think ketamine allows uh people to do in terms of processing trauma is that dissociative effect is very powerful. So it allows them to process a traumatic memory or experience without it being so personal and hitting so close to home.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Um, and that that's something that we're then able to talk about in therapy. And the client isn't as activated, they're not as triggered, um, which again allows for that work to be done.

EMDR Explained And Misconceptions

SPEAKER_00 14:22

So you mentioned EMDR. Uh is that a type of therapy that you utilize?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Yes. Uh so as of right now, I am not officially certified, but I'm in the process of going through the EMDR training. So I am able to use it with clients in sessions. Um, EMDR is a really wonderful type of therapy. Uh, I I kind of tell people that have an idea of what traditional therapy is, it looks pretty different because it's not your mouth talking, it's your brain talking. So um when people think of EMDR, they think about specifically there's there's eight phases of EMDR, and they usually think about specifically phase three and four, which is that bilateral stimulation. So rapid eye movement, or maybe tapping, or sometimes people use buzzers, uh, that kind of stuff. Um, and when you're doing stage three and four, what you're doing is you're des you're desensitizing yourself to the traumatic um experience or trigger, uh, and then you're reprocessing that experience by basically supplanting a positive cognition in place of that negative cognition that you had before. Um, and you know, EMDR is also one of those things that's been around for a long time. It's got almost 40 years of clinical research and experience since it was first created. Um so it's not, it's not something that's brand new. You know, a lot of people are like, this is this is voodoo, this is black magic, you know. And it can seem that way, but I would encourage people just like ketamine to if you're curious, learn more about it, research it, and if it's appropriate, give it a try.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yeah, and I I know so I did EMDR in 2019. It's the only time I've I've done that personally after a critical incident on duty, and I recall the first session, not you know, the therapist didn't explain it very well, or I wasn't listening. I don't know, it could have been me very well, it could have been me. But I remember thinking like this seems like I'm being hypnotized. And I could see first responders in particular, maybe more than the general public, being skeptical. How can you explain how it's different from hypnosis?

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Well, I'll be honest, I don't know a ton about hypnosis, so it's gonna be difficult for me to compare and contrast. Um, but I will say when it comes to explaining EMDR, um, that should be very client focused. How much does the client want to know? Right? Some clients don't care. Some clients are like, if it works, it works, just do it. And other clients want to know every little detail, right? What exactly is happening? Why are you doing these things? And it's just a matter of being proficient enough with it and knowing enough about it where you can articulate that. But um, EMDR is absolutely voluntary. I mean, it's not you're in control of your body and yourself the whole time. Um, you know, if somebody becomes dissociated during EMDR, which can happen, um, the therapist has the clinical ability to kind of help regulate that person back to baseline. Um, and that's something that should be done and talked about extensively before you ever begin reprocessing or desensitizing. Um, you know, we talk about uh grounding techniques and mindfulness techniques and creating uh, you know, either a peaceful place or a secure place that you can go to if you become too triggered during session.

Personal Calls And Lasting Impact

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yeah. Sure. Sure. Cool. Well, we've talked a lot about the official professional portions of your guys' lives. I'm gonna make you get a little more personal now. I know that you both have had your own lives. You're both we're all human, everyone experiences difficulties, and you've both been first responders. Would either one of you have an experience or that you'd be willing to share that was maybe difficult or traumatic or or affected you in a big way uh as it relates to this stuff? And you can say no, but I think it would be beneficial for any listeners to know that you're not just trained through books in school. You've you've lived it. For sure.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

My issue is which one? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

Yeah, no, I feel like we hold hold in so many and you remember so many, and you're like, oh, that doesn't bother me. And then you go back and you think about it like I remember my very last code that I had, and just like the environment, anytime the weather gets like that again, it just tends to bother me. So like going through therapy and starting that process of healing has definitely helped and kind of understand and like like it's okay to not be okay, but it's also okay to get help and to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Yeah. You know, I think for me, one of the toughest ones, and I won't get into the details of the call, but it was a pediatric code, and I was a fairly, fairly new father. I mean, I had two young kids at home, and you'd be surprised a lot of times for for first responders that unfortunately have to deal with that. Um, it it really hits close to home, and it's so hard to not personalize that, you know. So um for me that was a pretty difficult uh experience. And uh, but like Amanda said, if you do this long enough, it's not a matter of if, it's when. And unfortunately, you see people at their worst and in their biggest crises, and you just try to help as much as you can, default to your training. But it's like what's left in the aftermath when the code is done, when the call has been run, what's left? And a lot of times it's the people, the providers trying to pick up the pieces and make sense of everything, you know.

unknown 19:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

I will say, I feel like too in our careers, we we work, work, work. We work all the time, we do all these extra things. We work to avoid things. So when you actually get a chance to slow down and your brain is able to process things, that's when it all comes down, like you said, when you stop. And just allowing this time for yourself. Um, these sessions that I have patients come into, even if you just want to come in and sit with one of my recliners for two hours, you don't even have to have ketamine. Like, if that's what we need to do in order to start processing things, we can do it. You know, even if you don't have a mental health provider that you are established with, like we can find one, or if you don't want one, that's fine too. So but just having this group of people that you can talk to and to process things is extremely important.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Agreed. Yeah, takes a village, right? Not just to raise somebody, but to help someone become the best version of themselves.

The Case That Changed Amanda’s Career

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Yeah. I will say the reason the biggest push for me that I went to PA school, um, I was actually, you want to uh we can talk about a call, um a teenager at the high school uh collapsed and all we heard that there was a CPR in progress. And at that time I was just an EMT, and I say just EMT, EMT. I couldn't do additional drugs, I couldn't do additional skills. Uh, so I did all the skills that I could. Um I had a paramedic show up that was not the best in her skills. Um, and so I was hoping that she would bring the meds to help with this kid. She didn't bring the meds. Um, we did all the basic stuff. We coded him, we put him in the ambulance. She couldn't get access um because she missed an IO. Um, so uh in order to administer drugs. And she said, Oh, well, we're almost there. I'm just gonna give up. We're not gonna get it because the hospital can do it. So we get there, drop off the patient. Uh I heard that the mom was in the waiting room. So I went out and sat with the mom. And he was in a shockable rhythm. We shocked him multiple times, but he needed meds. And I told her, I said, you know, if uh if he's saveable, he'll be able to do it here. And I wanted to tell her that we did everything that we could, but I couldn't because that paramedic just gave up. And that's the first light vigil that I went to for a patient. Um, that was definitely very hard. And because of the community that I was in, everybody knew. Everybody knew the kid. So of course it was all over Facebook, all over, you know, the street corners and everything else. And it was just, I wish I could have looked that mom in the eye and said, I we did everything we could. And that's what my final push to go to PA school was because I wanted to do more. I did not want to just stop at just oh, we tried CPR. I wanted to be that person.

unknown 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

So now I, you know, I give it my all, you know, instead of just writing a code for 10-15 minutes, oh, we're calling it. No, we're gonna work it for this amount of time. We're gonna do everything that we can no matter what. Yeah. Um, because I that kid deserved more.

unknown 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Good for you. Thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Yeah.

Burnout, ER Chaos, And A New Clinic

SPEAKER_00 22:46

That was actually also my next question I was gonna ask is what what really sparked the change from what you were doing to what you are doing now. That's a big part of becoming a PA. What about going from predominantly ER to opening your own clinic?

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Um, so on the other end of things, you know, I want to do everything for my patients. Um, the emergency department, uh, since COVID, I would say, has progressively gotten worse. It is chaos all the time. Uh people are very, very sick all the time, and it's exhausting. Um, I noticed that my mental health was declining even working in the emergency department. Um, I was avoiding things. I was not being the wife or mother that I thought that I was gonna be. Um, and somebody asked me to, I had started my own IV business um because of family issues. Um, I had somebody in the family that needed IV fluids like as soon as possible. So I wanted to have IV fluids on hand. So that's kind of where we started with IV fluids. I got asked by a mental health provider to join her clinic and um to do to administer ketamine to her patients um just because she she was referring out and wasn't getting getting very far with those patients. So I kind of did more research on that and realized how much of an impact that it made. Started a couple patients just to kind of see how that went. Um, and that's when Jake came into the picture. And then I realized how much of an impact that it made on his life. Um and in June, um, kind of separated with that other clinic just because we had different thoughts. I was more about treating the patients, getting the patients better, um, doing what's best for them and growing and being the one-on-one contact. So separated from the clinic. And if it wasn't for Drake, I probably would not have continued with my own clinic and done a brick and mortar and continued with the first responder world just because we need it. We need people to understand and always be there and provide for our first responders. And and then Troy came into the picture. He works with you used to work with one of my current students.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

And so that's how you knew that I was doing ketamine, and he just randomly texted me one day being like, Hey, I want to talk to you about ketamine, and we went to Jethro's.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Yeah, we did some great barbecue.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

So, roundabout way, I met it back to the mental health side of things because I realized how much of an improvement it made on myself. Um, and let alone, and I just want to provide it for everyone else that wants that opportunity. I don't want any barriers or anything.

unknown 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Awesome. We do a good job of putting enough barriers in our own way.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

We don't need outside ones.

unknown 25:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Troy’s Journey From Police To Therapy

SPEAKER_00 25:19

That I got the same question for you. Yeah. What led you from? I mean, you've been a couple different places. Yeah. As a first responder. What what were the unique experiences that led you to down this road?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah, well, uh, you know, I'm probably not gonna earn any brownie points with this one, but being a police officer was too punitive for me. Um uh I like being the nice guy.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

So it's important to recognize that though.

What Changed After Ketamine

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah, yeah, that's true, you know, and a lot of times I think with with first responders and and there's such a huge, um, like grandiose idea of what they are and what they do. And we don't focus a lot on the, you know, the unfortunately the terrible and dark things that they have to experience, right? Like you talk to any little kid, any first grader, they're like, I want to be a cop, I want to be a firefighter. You know, they have no idea like what that job actually entails, you know, they just want to help people, yeah. Which at the root of it, I think is the best reason to get into uh being a first responder is because you genuinely want to help people. But so, you know, policing, it taught me a lot. Um, I learned a lot, met a lot of great guys at the academy and and even at the department that I worked at. Um, but ultimately, you know, I decided to go back to school, uh, get my EMT paramedic, um, and then got into the fire service. My sister was actually somebody who suggested that. I was kind of at a loss. I was waiting tables at Texas Roadhouse, which is so good. Yeah, the cinnamon butter. Any free cinnamon butter? Oh, I got I got free cinnamon butter. Get a free 20 pounds too from all the rolls. But anyhow, we digress. Um, so you know, she was the one that was like, well, hey, you know, you want to help people and you like you like learning about medicine and that kind of stuff. Why don't you try being a firefighter? I was like, that's a pretty good idea. So so that's what led me down that road. Um, and then I mentioned uh, you know, losing two coworkers to suicide. Yeah. Um, and that is a big part of what pushed me down the road to becoming a therapist. Um, you know, also everybody has their own unique story regarding their mental health and their journey, right? Everybody has trauma from childhood, everybody has their own experiences with family that has mental health um conditions and that kind of stuff. So that was a driving force for me, too, was to better understand and empathize with the people that were really going through it, you know? Um, and then as far as what led me to my personal experiences using ketamine, uh I would say I did a lot of introspection and honest reflection and decided that there were some some traumas that I had experienced and some calls and stuff that I had been on that I just wasn't able to get to a point that I was wanted to be at. So I was ready to try something, something different. And um, you know, I knew Amanda personally, so I had that implicit trust with her, right? Didn't necessarily know how ketamine therapy worked, didn't necessarily trust the process, but I trusted her.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

So that would I can relate.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

So that's kind of what what led me down that road. And holy cow, I'm so happy, so happy that I did because it's been literally life-changing.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

What's what's the biggest thing that's changed? One thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

That's a that's a good question. This is one where we're gonna take a second to think and put some elevator music in here.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

I well, yeah, I can tell you the biggest thing that changed for me while you don't do that. The big I could just, it's kind of like you what you mentioned. I could I could go there in my mind. I could go to those days, to those events that I couldn't I was I was at a point where I was afraid to think through certain experiences I'd had because I would have a panic attack or I would it would lead to a nightmare later in the night. I just I was just shutting it off and like I said, got to a point where I used alcohol and anything I could to just turn it off. And after ketamine, I could just go and I could think about it. It's not that I liked thinking about it. I still don't like thinking about those moments, but I can. And then eventually I also got to a point where I just have a completely different perspective. And it's because it's only because I was like able to allow myself to start thinking about it and processing it.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Almost a better insight, too, I've heard, as far as like different calls or like your reaction to it, like why why you felt that way. So you kind of feel justified for yourself and giving you better insight too.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Yeah. That's my experience.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

You ready? I think so. So I think I think the most, this single most beneficial thing for me was um I I remember during my very first treatment, I was I felt like I was outside of my body, which is a very common experience that people feel. And it's difficult to articulate for those that haven't experienced ketamine therapy. But I remember putting my hand on my chest as I was breathing, and I told myself, this is just a flesh sack. That's what I said. I'm like, this is just a flesh sack, you know. But um, what it allowed me to do is it allowed me to feel the emotions that I was experiencing, the guilt, the shame, the regret, the fear, the anger. And it allowed me to experience those for what they truly were, like an unfiltered version of those things where they were a part of me, but separate from me. And for me, that was the most powerful thing because previously, when I would, you know, think about a call, it was like, man, what I wish I could have done more. I I'm sorry. I wish I could have saved you, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

And the ketamine experience allowed me to say, I'm sorry, but it's not because of me not doing enough. I'm sorry that the world is cruel. Yeah. And I'm sorry that this is the way that it works sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Sounds like you're taking a much more objective look at what happened.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Absolutely. Great way to describe it. Yeah.

How To Reach Amanda And Troy

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Profound stuff. Before I forget, I want to make sure you guys get to get to plug yourselves here. You know, you are in business, right? You are offering services. So how can people find you, Amanda?

SPEAKER_03 31:22

Uh, so I have a website. It's revitalized-clinic.com, or you can call, text me anytime, or if you have any questions, just any questions off the top of your head, 515-822-6384. Or if you just want to call and talk about ketamine. I'm your ketamine lady to talk about things, answer questions, or just kind of point you in the right direction too. If you're just looking for some additional help.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Awesome. What about you?

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Yeah. So um you can get a hold of me by calling 911. Uh, no, uh, so the best way to contact me uh is probably via email. Uh it's Troy at frontline therapyservices.com. Um, you can also reach me on my phone number. Uh, it's 401-390-1267. Um, and I love when people reach out with just questions or anything like that. If I can shed insight on something, uh, I will, you know, ask my clients. That's that's like my favorite thing to do, is just drop that insight bomb and let it sit for a second. So uh, but yeah, so frontline therapy can't speak highly enough about them and what they're doing for first responders. Um, the owner of the practice, uh, Sheila, her husband, is in law enforcement too. So um she's got good personal connections with that too. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Cool. So you guys know how to get a hold of either one of them. And you should reach out if you're thinking about it, just make that first call for sure. Or text or email or whatever you're comfortable with. Um as far as I'm concerned, I think we've hit hit all the highlights. Is there anything else you guys wanted to mention here on today's episode?

SPEAKER_03 33:02

No, thanks for having having me on.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

I think I'd like to plug you for a second, Jake. Yeah, you know, you've been pretty integral with the ketamine therapy for a lot of people. Kind of a conscier one-stop shop. Just willing to help however you can. So I think you haven't uh sold. What about your coaching? Yeah, what about your coaching?

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Well, as it pertains to to ketamine, yeah. You like you said, Amanda, you invited me to come be a part of it from the beginning. And at you know, at first I kind of was like, I'm just a guy, I'm just a car, you know, an ex cop. Like, what am I gonna do? But it's been cool to kind of be a part of you know, starting the clinic with you. And also I've realized that just simply having the experience that I have, having gone through ketamine treatments and come out the other side so much better. Like, I it's just more of a you know, it's a it's a peer support type role. Um, and that is something that I do. I guess if you want me to plug myself, I've I have that role at at Amanda's clinic. And if you call her, there's a chance she's gonna, you know, ask if you want to talk to me. And all I just do is share the experience that I have uh personally and the experiences that you know I've seen others go through, obviously on a confidential basis, but just in general, what I see people experience. Um and yeah, I don't I'm not very good at plugging myself there, but I'm happy to help.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Satisfying answer. He's got business cards I can hand out. Yeah, there you go. Happy to help for sure. So awesome. Yeah, no, I don't have anything further. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. This is really cool. Great opportunity. Yeah, thanks for coming.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Yeah, thank you.