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Shared Voice by 10-42 Project, A First Responder Podcast
"Shared Voices"
The 10-42 Project is a faith-based resource and refuge organization dedicated to supporting first responders. We equip individuals with essential mental health tools, restore hope during times of crisis, and guide people toward a renewed purpose through the everlasting love of Jesus.
Shared Voice by 10-42 Project, A First Responder Podcast
Counseling Works Better When Your Therapist Gets The Uniform Life
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The uniform can make you look bulletproof while your nervous system quietly keeps score. We talk with Joe and Christina, a husband and wife counseling team, about what happens when years of calls, deployments, and high-stakes decisions start turning the emotional volume down. Joe shares his path from Army National Guard combat medic to police officer to counselor, and Christina brings the often-missed perspective of the spouse who lived the schedule, the stress, and the home life that has to absorb the overflow.
We dig into compassion fatigue and why numbness is not “just part of the job.” We also get honest about first responder culture: dark humor, shutting down after tough scenes, and the common habit of trying to process trauma at a bar instead of in a healthier space. You’ll hear practical ways to stay grounded using evidence-based coping skills like mindfulness, distress tolerance, and present-moment awareness, plus why physical health and mental health are connected for real recovery.
Joe and Christina also explain what therapy actually looks like for law enforcement, EMS, dispatch, corrections, military, and their families. No interrogation. No career backchannel. Just confidential, culturally competent counseling that helps you clarify your values and break destructive loops like self-judgment and negative self-talk. They share how the Clearbrook Counseling Professionals Public Servant Program in Ankeny and Ames supports flexible scheduling and telehealth across Iowa, so help is not stuck weeks away.
If you know a helper who is carrying too much, share this conversation with them. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what is the biggest barrier that keeps public servants from getting mental health support?
If you or someone you know is in crisis and at risk of self-harm, please call or text 988, the suicide and crisis lifeline.
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Welcome And Why This Matters
SPEAKER_03Welcome back to the Shared Voices podcast. I'm excited today. We got some new folks in the house that I just met recently because that's what our God does. He brings people in to help and to be help part be part of the community and to help each other, right? We believe iron sharpens iron. And you guys have a pretty amazing story. You guys are both counselors now. And Joe, you are a former former police officer who wore the uniform and the badge. And now you are a counselor and you're on the other end of it. And ever since I met, the passion drips out of you to help people with with their mental health and especially first responders and their family members, man. You ooze it, and so does your wife, Christina. So both of you. Hi, Christina. Hello. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Joe and Christina. So thank you. Yeah, you want to give me a little introduction of you and Christina?
SPEAKER_01Oh, be shiverless and let the missus go first.
unknownOh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01It's on you, Christina.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um, I'm Christina. I am a social worker by like an educational standpoint, but I uh am a licensed therapist now, and I absolutely just love being able to go to work every day and just help people. Um so we we've been married, we've been together almost 20 years now. Have uh little kids at home and just how many kiddos? We have three. Awesome. I've been like the middle stage of childhood, right now. Yeah. Yep.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I love it. I've got three of my own, and then we have two, I have two stepkids, but my oldest son, um, he's a teacher now and a football coach, and uh, we just found out we're gonna I'm gonna be a grandpa. Oh, congratulations, grandpa. I'm so excited. So excited, man. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. So you guys aren't there yet, though. No. All right, we're not trying to rush that. No, no, no. Trying to rush that. No, I don't, yeah, no. Well, slowly. Yeah. Slowly, yep. So you're married to him while he's a cop. Yes. And you're a counselor at the time.
SPEAKER_00I was not.
SPEAKER_03Oh, you were not? Okay.
SPEAKER_00Actually, in fact, the whole time he was a police officer, I was a stay-at-home mom with the kids because that just it felt like it worked really well. We could just like support him, we could just could handle that type side of things and let him be able to like focus and so how yeah.
SPEAKER_03Did you go? I mean, you were still a counselor then, trust me. Well, you were dealing with him and his co-workers and yeah, yeah. Um so how so what so yeah, you want to you want to cover this. So how then we'll we'll go with you second. What got you into therapy? Is it therapy counseling? What's the right word?
SPEAKER_00I yes, like we at at our place we call like we're therapists. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Um, yeah, so I like I am newer to like the field, just in general, like not speaking like 20 years or anything like that. But for me, it was very much I I felt very called to be this the stay-at-home parent and be able to be the support on that level for all of the years, and then always planned on being able to get back when the kids got older. And it just I circumstances like very specific things in life kind of led up to a point of like, all right, it's time and get back into school. And so then it was like, okay, what do I do? And so it was really kind of going into that just falling into like where where I was supposed to be. I am a very empathetic person. I'm a helper type personality. I love people, and so I just started like, what should I do?
Christina Story And Spouse Perspective
SPEAKER_00Social work. And then I didn't even plan on being a therapist. It literally was I, yeah, just kind of walked through, yes, walk through a whole bunch of different steps, kind of landed there and in the exact organization that I still work for, private practice that I am in right now, and it just kind of unfolded way.
SPEAKER_03And I love it. And I love it because you have the experience. So our organization helps the whole family. So literally half or probably more of the people we help, a lot of times are spouses. And they feel like they're they don't, they feel like there's nobody who understands them, nobody that they can talk to. Sometimes, even if they do know another spouse that may be comfortable to talk to, they worry that that spouse is gonna tell the husband and things get back, right? What an amazing thing to have a counselor who's been who is and has been a spouse of a current former first responder to be able to walk alongside those people. Like you, you, you, you will be able to rate relate to them in a way that other people just can't, because no education can pay for what you guys have gone through.
SPEAKER_00And it's a different life. It like it's just different.
SPEAKER_03And I think this is great, Joe, because I have been praying and praying and praying. Like we started the story. I tried to kill myself in 2020, and and I've been praying since then for God to bring in more counselors to our area with first responder experience, whether it's spouses or and actually been praying and praying for more of the officers to start taking off the uniform and putting on the counseling hat and putting on the therapist hat. And there's a couple of them now that have popped up recently. But man, you and I I got you and I had to meet and you introduced
Joe Career Pivot Into Therapy
SPEAKER_03me to some Colombian food, man. That was awesome. Yeah, we had a great conversation, so yeah, fill me in, man. What's why why are you doing this?
SPEAKER_01Um besides you're just a good dude. Yeah, uh well, okay, so um, yeah, no, like um so my career ended like uh I took a medical retirement, um, you know, and did an um concussion and like and so that chapter of my life closed um pretty unexpectedly. And so like a little before that I was a combat medic. And um, like really everything I've done has been like towards people, like I just have compassion for people, but I also wanted to be in like kind of the chaos and the fray of it. Yeah. Um yeah, and so and obviously as a law enforcement officer, you get to do that. Um and then afterwards, I was like, well, man, what do I do? Like, maybe I should chase medicine. Like I I miss that um from my medic days, and just kind of the geeky side of me is like a love science. So I just was like, cool, I'll go back and become um registered nurse. And I did, and I was working at PICU, um pediatric ICU, and I just found myself obviously when patients are there, like you know, like we got little ones that are in ICU. So I just found myself like counseling people as they were going through a very traumatic and hard time. Yeah, natural counseling. And so I was just like, I miss the interaction that as a police officer I got. And we get to see all kinds of people. Um, some are great conversations, some are more dynamic, and some are just like horrendous. Um, but and then so you get that shade, right? And like, so I was just like, man, what do I do? And um was working through my own things, and after like I just kind of like just was able to do that, I was like, ah, I see, I see where like I need to like be. And actually she had finished her program um as as a social worker, and she was kind of telling me about this, and I was like, hmm. I think kind of I I think I could do that, and but um I was at the point I was like maybe I go to like um nurse practitioner side of things, yeah. Um just because I already had that medical background, but I ended up going um the mental health counselor route and um yeah, blessed to like landed where I am, but that's kind of like my background about like how I ended up where I ended up.
SPEAKER_03So did you like seriously like so? You must have graduated high school and then went to the military shortly after?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I graduated in like 2004 and I joined the so like obviously 9-11, so I'm like in that time frame. Um so I joined the Army National Guard right away as a junior, as soon as that happened. Uh as soon as like I literally could the first, I think the first day that I possibly could join the army, I I was able to do that. And um, you know, that's like you know, your youth and you're and you're like, oh well, we're gonna that's not gonna happen. Um so I jo I joined the uh army and then um so she was through that a lot of that during my time of service. And um, so yeah, and then I went medic school and then came back and I kept getting deployed. And I was like, well, this is kind of hard to plan a life when you keep getting deployed. Yeah. So I after like eight years of service, I was like, I loved it though, I missed it. Um, but I was just like, I also wanted to like have a degree and like pursue my own like passions and and then uh ended up going into law enforcement and actually got into it sooner than I thought. Like all my friends were like, dude, you know, you're gonna have to apply. And about that time, um, there was like three, four hundred candidates going to these, like, and you know, you'd be like fighting for five positions.
SPEAKER_03Not like that anymore, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01No, no. I and I talked to my buddies that are still in it, they're like, man, we we're trying to hire five, and we got up, we got 15, and like four of them failed for what X, and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, oh, okay, yeah. So just different cultural, different dynamics going on at that time, and so then I got into that and I loved it. And I was like, yes, this is where I get to be like that as like just that physicalness of it, like there was just and I was like, yes, still that warrior mentality, um, but still kind of the compassion inside of me, and there were moments where I could like still exercise that, but yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So you go from combat medic to police officer to the NICU or NICU?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, pediatric, I see it as a registered. Um I just have like I just You love the servant, man. I just love people, I really do. I get passionate about like helping other people. Um, and sometimes um I just think, and and not to like overshare, but just like as a child, my like, you know, I was born in Columbia and we talked about you know, going to the Colombian restaurant. It's like I was born in a different world, in a third world with trauma. So I just I was kind of baptized by fire from early on. And I think that was both good and bad. Um, I've learned to use that for good. Um, so I'm just comfortable there, but in in in a healthy way. And um, so I think that's a lot to do with it if I if I look back on it and kind of give you a macro view of it. But yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, it's funny how in life we we we have plans and we say, God, come and bless what I'm doing. Look what I decided to do. Get over here, come, check this out. And we um we want him to come bless it. And then we sometimes we end up in the you know, in the places where we're not supposed to be, we're on, we're in jobs maybe we shouldn't be doing. Um it sounds like you guys have are finding out that God wants you under something. He doesn't he doesn't want you to come to him. You don't you say, come look what I'm doing. God's in a God's is making a move right now in this country, in this world, in this state, in this is making a move. Yeah, he's making a move for his children, and like um you guys are a big part of it. Yeah, um, I'm losing my train of thought like I always do. Um where was I going with that?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think to to your point about
Compassion Fatigue Numbness And Humor
SPEAKER_01why more police officers haven't entered this profession. Um I just kind of quickly thought, like, well, we so much compassion fatigue, right? But like all of us at some level, all cops care for people. Um we've gotten a bad rap, right? Um, but in nobody enters that because they don't like people. Like, I mean, there's obviously, you know, they care for people at a certain level. And um, I've never heard an interview of me like, oh, I just want to because I want to kick some people, you know, you shoot guns on the you know, police range and stuff like that. If you know, that would be preposterous if you answered like that. No, most people answer like because I care for people and I want to help people, yeah. I want to serve my community. Some, you know, those those answers, right? Um, and of course, there's gonna be your type A's of like, I want to be on SWAT and all do all this stuff. And great, because we need those warriors too. But um, most people care about people, yep. But then we get into compassion fatigue and we get into like trauma overload, and then we, you know, explain compassion, explain uh fatigue. The compassion fatigue. It's like fatigue, my goodness. Yeah, you go like think about like uh we'll keep it like kind of low-key, but like you go to just some so many car accidents, right? And the first maybe the first one when you're out of FTO and you're like, oh my gosh, it's like the first one. It's like serious injuries, right? And then you get there and it's like it's a nosebleed, and you're like, that's serious, right? Well, maybe it's serious to that person, like it hurts, whatever. But you go to the next one and somebody's just like got a broken arm, and then and then right, and the injuries add up, but like get into like the hundredth time, and you can only ramp up, like, yeah, sure, my car's going at 100 miles an hour, but I'm just like, whatever. This is probably gonna be a nosebleed again. Or and so we kind of get into that, or like you hear the domestic violence story, it's a different face, but the story's maybe similar, and we're just like, Yeah, kind of checked out because we're already writing the report in our head, like, I know how this is gonna go, yeah, and blah blah blah blah. And I've already gotten like kind of my charges written out because we all have our own writing style, and like, so we just kind of like, okay, I got it. Um, and because it is a job, right? And like we have to document all that stuff, but we sometimes can get in that, yeah. And we're and there's only so many of us on the street, right? And we gotta be proficient, yeah. We ain't gotta sit, we don't have the luxury of really sitting in that chaos or that traumatic event with somebody as a police officer. That just just can't happen. Just obviously, budgets and personnel that doesn't allow it. And you don't want to be like a bad like partner either, right? Doing all that. That's not yeah.
SPEAKER_03So, Christine, I would say with compassion fatigue, because I say this all the time, we are a spirit with a soul who have a and God gave us a body, and God gave us science, and God gave us uh bodies, but would you say um compassion fatigue is kind of similar to what I talk about a lot with your heart being hardened by you see trauma and you get numb to it. And when God talks about our heart being hardened, it's like maybe I'm wrong, Christy. But it's like your emotions get turned off. Yeah. And it and I feel like with these calls, it's kind of like that where you're each one, it turns your down, turns it down a little bit if you're not intentional, right? Yes, if you're not intentional to get help and to keep that up there. So when we when we talk about compassion fatigue or harden of a heart, it's spiritual, yeah, but it's also your body, it's chemical, right? It's it's it's so we have to be able to address those and and know that they're connected, they're not separate. Like our we talked about this, I think before we started recording, how much our physical health and our mental health are tied together because that's how God designed it. Yeah, our bodies will help our brain with the emotional stuff if we allow it and can teach it to do that, like going to the gym we talked about instead of going to the bar, right? Right. And do these types of things. So, is there any way to combat
Practical Ways To Stay Grounded
SPEAKER_03compassion fatigue? Is there how does how does or is it just processing the calls and doing that? How does one do that?
SPEAKER_00I would say like to very much piggy out p piggyback off of what you were talking about is really that sense of like just mindfulness and like getting out of your head into your life, day-to-day being grounded. And so, yeah, we I mean, especially in a therapy perspective, we do a lot of like evidence-based practice, like focused on grounding and doing some coping skills that keep you very much in the moment, distress tolerance skills, all of that type of stuff that connects you to the present. But that's that's what it's more about because when you talk about that compassion fatigue, you talk about shutdown, you know, talk about dissociation, and people think about well, it's just like watching from the outside, but emotional dissociation can very much heavily play into that of just like, you know what? I'm shut it off. I go back, I get down, do my job, write the report, whatever it may be, and then just move on and never back go back and revisit.
SPEAKER_03And you know what's scary, Joe, is administrations, some administrations, some supervisors and co-workers. I've seen this happen, happened to me, it's happened to a lot of people. I hope it's quitting, but we try to this has happened. Somebody's been on a murder scene where there was a lot of grossness, right? They have they get a hold of the rookie and have the rookie come to the scene to look at it. Yep. Because he needs to get used to it. Yeah, and one of them even said, you need to get your wings when it comes to a death of a child. You need to get your wings, get over here and come and look at this. Yeah, that's unhealthy. That's we do not harden ourselves by seeing more and more trouble. We don't, that's not how we do this. It's not we that is that that's them trying to get you to harden your heart. It's trying to get you to lose that compassion fatigue, which when you lose your compassion, you don't need to be carrying a badge anymore. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that's awful. That's that's did you see that in your career? No, um, but it's just like you do see like when the senior guys see stuff, right? And you you're the first one to, or you know, you've maybe haven't experienced that, and they're just kind of like, you know, the dark humor, right? And here you are like, oh my gosh, X just happened, and you're kind of like trying to process it, and they're like making dark jokes, and then it's like, now we've just taught that like that isn't such a big deal. It is a big deal. Somebody getting hurt, somebody getting shot, or regardless of the situation, you know, like you know, and we we kind of justify it sometimes in that profession. It's like, well, it was X. The situation is this, and it's like, oh, well, that makes sense. Well, in the end, a human being or somebody lost somebody or somebody got severely hurt. Um, I think that's kind of what I've seen more of this, like this dark humor, which seems to like then promote, like they call it gallows humor or something like that.
SPEAKER_03And gallows humor can and I said this before, like, gallows humor can sometimes help you get through the moment, but it's gotta stop there. Like you, you like if you're on a call and somebody says something or whatever, like whatever, you can laugh it off, but that's gotta it's gotta stop at that point because at that point you're basically you're you're using gallows humor to silence other people, yeah, to keep them from opening up or speaking. Yeah. And because you're making fun where if they were to speak up, you've already made fun of them basically. So you've already shut that down. Yeah, and that's gotta come from the the old dogs, right? It's gotta come from the old dogs. But I'll say this, Christina, the younger generation I see in all these academies, they are the mental health breakthrough in these departments. They're going back to their departments and don't give a crap about us old dogs, and they're actually talking about mental health, they're actually the younger ones are getting together and having you know good conversations that aren't built around alcohol and trauma. Um, it's the younger generations what's really cool to see, and I hope it continues because us old dogs need to be fleshed out. If we can't, if we can't adjust our mindset to this new, you know, we care about each other mindset, they need to get out. But man, it's refreshing to see for the first time in academies, people, young people sitting there and talking about real issues. It's pretty amazing, but it's the old dogs that are holding holding it back, and and a lot of times administration can be just that. Um, so tell me though, so you guys where you guys, where's your clinic? Um, and tell us a little bit about what you guys, everybody so different counseling, different therapy um clinics, some specialize in certain things, some really do good at this, or some have this. Tell us about your clinic, where you're at, what it's called, and because our listeners need to know you guys are out there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we actually get we're privileged to work at the same clinic, Clearbrook uh counseling professionals, and we have offices, um, but we're both actually, I'll just say we have offices in uh Ankeny and Ames, um, but we both work out of the Ankeny office. And so um she's a licensed social worker and I am mental health counselor. Um, but yeah, you want to talk about the kind of what we do?
SPEAKER_03And what's some of the modalities they do there or types of help they have?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I mean, like very specific, like we Clearbook as a whole, we do a lot of work on being trauma-focused. So having a trauma-focused approach is extremely necessary in therapy in general because everybody's been through different things, everybody has a past, and that all definitely plays into how we handle our present. So, um, very specifically, like Joe and I, through the just our availability that we have at the clinic, the spaces that we have at the clinic, we have started a program called the PSP program that stands for a public servant program. And so that we aim to use that to help and connect with law enforcement, first responders, military, like just those helpers, yeah, those professions that really need that. So that's a program that Joe and I specifically, if you call into Clearbrook, you go to make an appointment there, you can say, Hey, I want to get scheduled a PSP provider. And so that's Joe and I. And so the admin staff knows to schedule with us, and we we try to keep some spots open to be able to get people in when they need it or to keep in that non traditional schedule kind of in mind of all right. Let's let's get these people in. And it's from that perspective of yes, like the actual the helpers, the public servants, but also their families too, because we have that unique ability to have both sides of that.
SPEAKER_03So let's let's dive deeper into that. PC, I'm also PCP. That's different. Um, I want to dive into that because sometimes um counselors, doctors, um, we can use terms that maybe some people are listening to are like, I have no idea. You guys know what that means, but what does that even mean? You do what now? What does what do those initials mean? What do they stand for? What is the value in it, and what's the goal of that?
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. So PSP, public servant program. So the goal is, and especially with that name, is to be able just to help the like help the helpers in our communities. So, yes, like Joe has the background of law enforcement. I was at support in law enforcement for all those years. You know, he has his military service, and I supported through that as well. But then also just to connect with the other helpers. So dispatchers, um, corrections officers, just people at different levels that maybe aren't always the first responder type fit into that box, but very much those helpers in our community too. So the idea with that is to really be able to provide a space for people to
Clearbrook PSP Program For Public Servants
SPEAKER_00get the help that they need and really leave it at that. I love it.
SPEAKER_03And you said the exact word, the exact words of the perfect words of providing us space. And and I'm not I'm not trying to use the trigger word like you need a safe place or whatever or whatever, but it matters. You like this organization and us, like this place right here, we provide a safe place for people to encounter healing in God. Like the the environment matters, right? Absolutely. And and so I I uh your your Claire Brook, yep, yeah, Claire Brook. Yes, so your guys, so if somebody walks in there, if they call and they said, Okay, I want to have a a session with Christina or I want to have a session with Joe, and they've never been to counseling session, so I assume they're gonna walk in the door and you guys are gonna grab them and throw them in the chair, and you're you're gonna lay them on a couch, and but that's not really how it is. No, this is what it still are some of the ideas that are out there, man. What's it like to walk in? It's not intimidating, it's not scary like we think it is.
SPEAKER_01No, um, it's just a conversation. It's uh catch me up on your life. Um, what's and let's let's walk through this together. You know, like your shirt, no one walks alone, right? That's that's what that's where we're at. Uh um, we're both in a position to be able to hear you out and maybe maybe find some things that like maybe you just haven't seen, or maybe a space where I really gotta get this off my chest. Or this is weighing down my heart. I just can't do this by myself anymore. That's that's that's what it is. There's no, I mean, if you I have a couch, if you want to lay down, go for it. Um, I've had that happen, and like, you know, whatever. Yeah, we'll we'll walk through it together. Um and I think both of our approaches are very similar. Like, we just kind of laid back and like you know, you share what you want to share. And as our relationship professionally grows, like, and you feel more comfortable and like in a safer spot to open up, that's awesome. It's great. And like we'll be there ready for you. But there's no weird, like, I'm gonna like bring you in on a wheelchair and like you know, tape you down and you're gonna answer my 50 questions.
SPEAKER_03Um, but you're taking notes the whole time to give to the police department, right? Yeah, no, so this is awful. So cave, yeah, yeah. Like it's a fake fear, guys. It's a fake fear. Yeah. If if it if if they're not connected to your department, it's a fake fear.
SPEAKER_01Like, yeah. So on that note, like, so the PSP program is built. Um most of these like professions that we're talking about, EMS, jailers, uh, dispatch, law enforcement, um, even nurses and doctors, whatnot. You have amazing benefits, right? Even if you don't have, right? Um, you can come in and like we're not tied to any particular organization. So, like we clearbook don't work with, you know, like I'm just gonna name some police departments, uh, Clive, Des Moines, blah, blah, blah we don't have like contracts with them. No, we want you to use the benefits that you already pay for. And so we're not, you know, that we really want to in that fear that like this is gonna come back to my department. No, it's not, it's your private, it's your private insurance, and you might as well use it because you you pay for it. Um, so we're not gonna be relaying anything, we're not anybody's gopher. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I'm very passionate about that. And we've talked about that a lot privately. Um, because there is a fear, like, yeah, well, man, like, dude, that call sucked. That call sucked, and like you'll see people in tears, and it's like, okay, it did suck. And that's and that's we offer that space to like discuss that. Um, or just stuff that's going on in home. Yeah. Stuff sometimes like maybe we're we're our best at work, um, but at home, like, it's trash. Yeah. Like, and we know it and we're really struggling through it, and like, okay, let's walk through that together. Um, but yeah, we're not we're not connected to anybody and we're not, and we won't be. I just want to let that everybody know we won't be. That's not a thing we're gonna be doing. Yep.
SPEAKER_03Um, and that's why I have you guys on because I know that about you. Like, I truly know that if anybody out of anybody in this world knows that confidential at confidentiality matters, it's you guys. You guys, you've been the spouse, you've been the first responder, you understand what can happen if that confidentiality gets out there, yeah, and the damage it can cause, and also the the the credibility it takes away it can end your career. Yeah, I'm just gonna be real, like and same with me, with this organization, right? If we lose our our our confidentiality and all that kind of stuff with people, we've lost everything. Yeah, and so I can tell you guys that they are a safe place. You're you're you're gonna get some help or you're not gonna get judgment. And I love that you said walk along,
What Therapy Looks Like In Real Life
SPEAKER_03just like our organization. You're gonna walk along the side of them. You're not there, like I say, in our organization. I'm not there to walk behind you and scoop up your crap, all the messages you leave. That's not I'm here to walk alongside you. And we're gonna help you get there together. Yep, it's not me pushing you, it's not me pulling you, it's let's do it together, right? And at their pace. Yeah. Do you do it at their pace? And absolutely. So it's not like a high pressure, answer this, answer that, answer that. Like it, because I've I've heard first responders say this, Joe. I ain't going in for an interrogation like that. Yeah. But it's not an interrogation. No, it's not.
SPEAKER_00One thing I do in intakes and with new clients is one of the first things I ask them, just like, how like, how does it feel to sit here on this couch? Like, what are you actually? Can you just tell me what you're actually feeling and thinking right now? And then I reflect back because, like, I mean, I've been in that position. Like, it's okay that this feels weird and you don't know what's about to happen, and that's okay. It's it's perfect.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Or like we're not like we haven't like been trained to talk about ourselves. So then we're like, what do you want to know? Right? And like, I don't want really want to open up quick. Especially as a police officer, right? Like, we're super guarded. Like we're the warrior types. We're not, I don't, I've got the shield in front of me. Why would I open this up? I don't have time for vulnerability.
SPEAKER_03But we're always as sick as our deepest secrets. Like, that's where the healing's at. Yep. It's in those things that you're holding on to, that's where it's at. Yep. And it may be sore. And if you're feeling that, it's it's like a soreness in your leg. Like, if you feel that, that's a sign that there's something wrong. If you're feeling that soreness, like that's when we need to get help. That's when we need to come in and and help unpack these and process this. And what a great way to process it with with some folks that have been there. Like that's that's different because when you're when you're competently what's the word I'm looking for? Culturally competent. Culturally competent. Um you can sit down with people and you you can inherently kind of skip some of the bull crap of like, you don't have to worry. I don't have to worry I'm gonna break my therapist because I share with you what happened on this call. Yeah, right. Right. Like I was uh just talking with Andrea Wilson, she's one of our uh one of our ambassadors, and she's on our board, amazing woman. And uh and uh I'm about to lose my thought. What were you talking about, Andrea?
SPEAKER_01Where uh we're you don't have to worry about your counselor like breaking down and crying.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because she she tells in her st in her story when she talks and like she goes and comes and gives talks and stuff with me. And she said, I broke three therapists. I literally had three therapists melt down and cry. One cried so hard they're like slobbering. Yeah. And so she walked out like, well, I can't okay. Yeah, I'm all I'm gonna do is break people. Yeah, so it matters when you when you find a culturally competent person that you can know you can sit down and Joe's not gonna throw up when he hears something you say, and either either's Christina, yeah. Um, because you guys have been on that road that matters, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I think like, you know, I I I've heard her say this before, like she knows the sound of the Velcro the best when you come home. And you know, we as officers know this the sound of Velcro. And when you can tell someone that and that that resonates, like even like everybody here in the room, like it was like, I mean, we probably heard it. We heard it, and we know where we usually did it. Yeah, I mean in the corner of that room, yeah, their home. And so that's a success for us. It's like finally, and all the sweat comes out, and then you know your shirt's like stained, and yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, we get it, like right.
SPEAKER_03So that's just kind of a cool but that velcro sound can be a good sound, but it can also be a bad sound because sometimes we go home and we take it all out on our spouses, right? Yeah, and it it can be where, and I know this because I've been the one that's did it to my family. We have our families walking on eggshells. Right. Literally, they see the headlights from our patrol car coming in or the turn and they hear the door open. And I talk to spouses all the time about this. As soon as that happened, anxiety threw the rough. And they immediately got to put on a fake face where the kids, yeah, I don't want them to get upset, leave, leave, leaving alone, and they're immediately in panic mode trying to stop us from going into, and they're doing it because they've seen us go through it in the past, right? Yeah, they're seeing where one little thing can trigger us and then they take the the brunt of it. Yeah, and boy, that's that's that's when we know we gotta get help. Yeah, we gotta get help because getting help is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of wisdom. Yep. And especially for men, it's time to pull your big boy pants up, yeah, and put your man card in the garbage disposal, those things don't exist and get some help, man. Yeah, because I don't care. I mean, you're tougher in hell. We've been through some crap, but man, we're still we're still five-year-old boys in here. Yeah, we're still 10-year-old boys in here. We have a heart, we care, we put up a mask, our heart gets hardened, but we deeply care emotionally. And we have to be able to talk in dialogue with somebody who understands, and and it's not for here's the thing what people think counselors are going to tell me how to live my life, and that is absolutely the biggest lie
Values Based Counseling Without Advice
SPEAKER_03in the world. Counselors that the last thing they want to do is tell you how to live your life. So, what is it? They're not telling you how you live your life. What is it? Are they trying to tell you how to live a life?
SPEAKER_01What what would well uh so yeah, we we don't get into advice, right? Because like what works for me, like um, you know, my two-hour gym chest sessions might not be for everybody. I love the gym. I just it's fine, I find it's just a peaceful place for me. Uh, if some if I suggested that to somebody, they'd be like, what the hell are you talking about? I'm not gonna I don't have two hours to be in the gym. I don't want to be in the gym two hours, it sounds awful. Um, also then I go into the sauna for 30 minutes. Um they're like, whoa, I don't want the time, nor the do I want to do that. Um, so no, we don't do advice. We're not gonna know. Um and most good counselors don't, right? It's not about advice, right? It's about what are where are your values? Are you living those values out? And if not, maybe the values that you thought were your values, maybe they're not. And we explore that. Like sometimes in life we shuffle values, and we're like, oh, it turns out like um, I don't know, I'm just trying to think of loyalty. Maybe loyalty is the one that we were like, you have to be loyal, you have to be loyal, you have to be loyal. And so you stay at a job forever, and like now you have this conflict. If I leave this job, that means I'm not loyal. No, it means that you're passionate about this. And so we we find the rub and the conflict in that, and then we explore it together. But those are your values, and we see, hey, we we can work through that together. Um, um, obviously, that's just on a quick uh quick overview of what we do.
SPEAKER_03But um, well, that's great. But yeah, I just I just want to get through some of these myths that people have about again, they're gonna the counselor, it's gonna be scary, they're gonna be told how to live their life, and they're gonna be have a list of things they gotta go home and do, and that's the last thing I need. It's more crap to do.
SPEAKER_01Or I have to cry. Yeah, I you know, gosh, it's gonna make me cry. Yeah, you want to, yeah, you don't have to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, do whatever you feel.
SPEAKER_01Are we gonna do some weird like meditation pose or thing? Um, if you want to, yeah. Um, if you know, mindfulness, not about control.
SPEAKER_03No, it's no, no, it's helping you understand what's happening inside of you and helping you process it because we don't know what we don't know. Yeah, and that's when it's dangerous, is when we think we know everything and but we don't know what we don't know, and that's okay. You're not supposed to know things you've never gone through. Yep. Like, if I would have had somebody early in my career, I say this all the time, when it came on, especially on my first hard call, I'd put their arm around me and say, Hey buddy, I know this is hard, man. I'm gonna walk alongside you with through this, I'm gonna help you. Like, I'm gonna help you get to some places, I'm gonna show you how how to get through calls like this. Like, you and I'd probably still be doing the job. You know what I mean? A lot of us would still be doing the job, but you know, and that's what I want to start seeing in the organization is that.
SPEAKER_01And what we saw was the opposite. After a call, that was pretty shitty, dude. Yeah, let's go get a beer. Yep. And what did we just that alcohol or some substance is dude? Beer in Texas hold them years of my life. A disconnect, right? That's like where we're going to find this in quotations, peace or some kind of resolution. Um, you're not gonna find that at a bar. Yeah, and not that you can't have and not that you can't have great conversations with someone at a bar, but it's like what we've talked about. It's be very careful who you're opening yourself up to and giving a voice to.
SPEAKER_03Um and letting alcohol influence the emotions that come out of you, right? Because that can be really dangerous.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then once you uncork it, like now what?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And especially when you're a first responder, because Christina, I always talk about this. This is the big issue, is when you're a first responder and and you deal with these, you're supposed to be the pillar of the community. Where are you supposed to go when you deal with this type of stuff? Because this piece of polyester uniform doesn't stop us from trauma, it doesn't stop us from those things. So that's why what came down for me, Joe, is I man, I who could I go to? Even the guys I worked with that were the closest to me, I couldn't tell them. Yeah. Because if they told their wife and they told one other person, my career's over, I'm out, right? Because we're all worried about being exposed.
SPEAKER_00I think that is one of the most powerful pieces of the therapy, like the therapeutic relationship. When you talk about a therapist and client, and I talk to people like when I do intake, that's the most important part of therapy, right there. That relationship between client and therapist. But the beautiful, powerful thing about that is it gets to be a relationship that you don't have anywhere else in life. And there isn't that like wonder about what's this person gonna think of me or judge or who's it gonna get to. Because, you know, we're hell. We have like our ethics board. We we hold a license for a reason and we have rules and we are held to that confidentiality that does not leave the four walls of our room. And so I tell people, you get to be who you need to be. That means you get to talk how you need to talk, you use the language you need to use, like all of that type of stuff.
SPEAKER_03That's that's if the F-bomb flies, and that's what then let it fly. Like that we're you're not gonna aren't there to be like, don't you talk like that? Talk how you normally talk, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's um say something because I forgot I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, no, we're getting good at this, isn't it? Yeah, we just uh we really encourage people to just relax. Um, you know, we don't treat it as like uh coffee with a friend. Yeah, it is a professional relationship, um, but we're therapeutic uh in what Christina was saying that like yeah, this is a opportunity for you to just like unload and like you get to create you as a client get to create that relationship that you want to be, that you want to have. Um because there's some things sometimes our families are just like chaotics, you know, sometimes the people that we think we could kill to but aren't gonna understand. You know, if I told one of my older, yeah, if I told my older brother like what it it was like to go through the first door when I'm like actively searching for an armed
Self Judgment And Changing The Loop
SPEAKER_01suspect, he wouldn't understand that, right? Yeah, um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_03So here's here's what I was gonna say. When it comes to counseling, when it comes to things like public speaking, when it comes to being on a podcast, what's the actual fear? The fear is judgment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03When you go into counseling, you're scared about judgment because if somebody and counselors aren't there to judge you, but you're worried about judgment because judgment are your core values and the things that you have inside of you. If somebody tells you what you believe and what you're doing isn't working or isn't right, we can sometimes have trouble with that because you're telling me everything I've known. That's that you're taking something from me almost at that point. When you know when you learn something, when I say you you don't know what you don't know, once you know it, then you realize it. Like um, it comes down to judgment. And so much of our life is being held up because we're worried about judgment from other people. Like, God has given us all these talents and gifts, and most of it is held up by judgment. And judgment, don't let judgment go going into a counseling session, don't let judgment be a barrier because it's not judgment. They're not there to judge you, they're there to help you get and to see things that you may not see.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03And that's what healing is. That's how we get healing, is we get out of these ruts that we've been in. We think we know what we're doing, we think we have it figured out, but yet we're still going through the same cycle of trauma, trauma, trauma and alcoholism and all this stuff, but we say we're going, and it's like, let's put that judgment away. Yeah, it's not about judgment. Let's come in, let's be open, honest, and transparent. I think that's what's important about what you guys do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But I think you hit it on the nail because it's self-judgment, right? That's usually the worst kind of judgment. Because they're not really judgmental. I mean, like, if if people judge me, you know, if if you and I get judged, I'm I'm gonna be like, whatever, bro. We gotta judge our whole career. But if I judge myself, I will be so much harder, right? Yep. Oh, yeah. I will be like, mmm. Yep. Mm-mm.
SPEAKER_03This was that because I bet if I were to talk to you the way you talk to yourself, you'd probably knock me out. Right. Because we talk to ourselves very ugly, yeah. And very hateful, right? And very dark.
SPEAKER_00We are our own worst enemies. We are our own.
SPEAKER_03And that's why monologue, it's keeping your thoughts inside yourself are they're they're killing you. Yeah. Because the enemy and those enemy, the enemy will, the devil will agree with all of those nasty thoughts going through your mind. He will convince you you are worthless, that people are better off without you. Yeah. And and that that voice starts to scream.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and those like negative thought patterns, like, what have we practiced daily? If I say I suck, well, then I soon I start to believe that.
SPEAKER_03It's an identity you took on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because I've thought it, I've created a pattern, and I start to believe it. And if I start to believe it, then my behaviors change, right? And so there's it's very you can see it, you can see it happening. And so we work through clients through different modalities, like acceptance theory. And okay, sometimes we do have negative thoughts. We're human beings, we're gonna have extreme emotions. Sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad. Like same thing with experiences. The human life and experience can be both great and just miserable at times. Um so yeah, we we get a chance to work through that and um it's fun.
Scheduling Options Telehealth And Closing
SPEAKER_01I like it. I love helping people.
SPEAKER_03What a great conversation. I can seriously keep this going for hours. Yeah, yeah. But this is what's great about having this studio and having this, and that we're friends, like we can we get to create this stuff all the time. Um, but before we wrap up, let's let's go over your your company again, how they can get a hold of you. Um is that let me see that. Is that a flyer?
SPEAKER_00This is one of our flyers that we give out, but um this is just our so Clearbook Counseling Professionals is what organization we have website, Clearbook, Clearbrook Counseling Professionals.com. Um Yeah.
unknownThank you.
SPEAKER_03Um people sometimes say, man, I need a counselor, but I can't find one everybody's booked. If somebody's reaching out and they're struggling, is that something um what what's the what's something on the if somebody's struggling today, they call you today's a Friday, and they say, Hey, I need to see you Monday. Is that how what's that look like? Is help a long ways away? Or sometimes does it just vary?
SPEAKER_00Yep. I would say, I mean, when you look at the therapy counseling profession in general, it varies hugely. The one thing that we have like tried to phase, like combat that with, I guess, with the PSP program, is to like we work together. So we can we can trade off, we can work our schedules around each other, and we can provide that availability. We're not a crisis center, but we can, yes, if that happens and we get a call, like, okay, um, who can stay late maybe on Monday? Or who can like who can get on, jump on telehealth when you need to meet in this specific yeah.
SPEAKER_03So it won't be a 30-day wait. No, no. And even if it was, would you guys probably just be honest and say, hey, we got somebody who is culturally competent who's free now, right? Yeah. But it doesn't really it doesn't seem like it happens.
SPEAKER_01No. No.
SPEAKER_03And because we all worry that we're gonna enter we're gonna bug somebody, right? Right. No. Use that as a barrier.
SPEAKER_01We've overlapped our schedules so that we have built-in gaps so that we can get people in right away. Awesome.
SPEAKER_03Clearbrook counseling in Ankeny. You guys do telehealth? Yes. Yep. Okay. So if they're we have a lot we have people throughout the whole state and around the country. But if they're if they're uh on the if they're if they're up in Sioux City, they can still get help. Yeah they can still get telehealth. Absolutely. Telehealth, and then and then I always recommend if you're doing telehealth, to still go do in-person visits. Absolutely. Like it's if you say you're in Sioux City and you're coming down here to meet with Joe and Christina, get a hotel room. Like, you know, make make it a yeah a thing. Yep. Yep. What a powerful way to uh get out of the get out of the cycle of suck where you're at. Come here, get in person, because in-person matters, right? We're we're a hundred percent not present when we're online, right? Because we're not there, right? Right matters attracted. Yeah. But telehealth is awesome and it helps. Absolutely. And it has its place, but I think it works better when you mix the two. Yep. Yeah. And I'm sure as a counselor, you probably get to know them a little better in person than the computer screen while their cats running behind them. Right. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Well, thanks for tuning in. The real deal. You guys got their information. We love you, and we'll see you next time. And remember, no one walks alone.