Episode 51: Being a series leader, building a new car, and how much you should hate cheaters

As soon as I started the podcast, Micheal Young  (@trackthatshit) claimed episode 501 (the car number on his Integra Type R)... and as soon as he began building his "new" car... I started talking to him about episode 51 (the car number on his K swapped Civic)... and the rest his history. 

Mike is the NASA MA Series Leader for Honda Challenge... part of the rules committee... and we sat down at his shop to talk shop about what it is like to be a series leader, what its like to regrow a class, and how much he HATES cheaters. 

If you like what you hear... download the episode, share it with friends, give it a 5 star rating and give it a positive review! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to the Blind Apex Podcast. Where amateur club racers tune in to get faster?

SPEAKER_01 0:26

I'm your host, Con John Turk, and on this episode of the Blind Apex Podcast, we're going to talk about a whole bunch of stuff. I'm actually re-recording this intro, which is terrible, but we're going to talk about being a regional series leader. We're going to talk about building a new car and maybe reigniting some flames for being back out there on the track. And we'll get into some other stuff. Joining me, the bearded wonder, track dad to a bunch of degenerate Honda Challenge racers, and a self-proclaimed professional car washer, Michael Young. Welcome to the show. Thanks, buddy. I'm glad you finally got me here. Well, I mean, it's your episode. It's episode 51 for anybody who cares. Um, that's your current car number.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yep. And your previous car, which is actually right near us. Uh, we're recording from the Shine in Line Studios today, here in Fredericksburg, Virginia. Uh, is 501. So, as if you're a listener, you can guess he's gonna have episode 501, you know, if we make it that long.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

So I'm sure we'll do just fine. You'll do just fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

So we'll see. But let's talk a little bit about your racing background and what got you onto track, or what got you into cars and then what got you onto the track.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

So I've been into cars um probably just before I turned 16, got my license. I never really knew what kind of style or you know, make of car I was into, but so my mom bought me my first car, and it ended up being a uh 89 CRX SI uh red. Very nice car for a 16-year-old, I think. Um it was either that or a Volkswagen, and that could have gone a completely different direction.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Solid choice, mom.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Yeah, so she did well. Um, so from then it was just you know, bolting on parts, me and my buddies hanging out at the car wash in high school, um, and then just progressed. And eventually I built a show car. I don't know if you knew that or not, but I had a uh an EG coupe show car, painted nice, never saw the rain, drove it to car shows. Um eventually I wanted to start tracking, so I bought my um one of my friends' type R's, which is the current type R race car that I have now. Um my first track event was with Type R Expo at uh CMP in 2011. Okay. Um from there, my first event with NASA was November or October of 2020, and then I did a full season starting in 2012 doing DE stuff in the type R. Um went through the ladder in DE, started doing time trials a little bit just to progress.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

And then um 2016 was my rookie year in Honda Challenge, and that was mainly thanks to Naveen. Um he said he won at the race Honda Challenge. I guess he had been talking to Bradfield on the side. I didn't know Bradfield at the time, right? Um, but uh I didn't believe him, you know. So I was like, yeah, you're gonna build a car for H or for Honda Challenge, sure. Well, when he started getting his cage done and you know buying parts and stuff, I was like, all right, I guess I'm gonna do this. And then another buddy, PB, came along, and that's actually whose car I own now. That's the 51. I bought it from him. Um we just I guess we all agreed we were gonna do this. And 2016 we went to comp school, and I've been racing ever since.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

So 2016, you're in comp school. I went through comp school in 2019. So in those three years, we were up to a dozen, maybe 15 cars fields.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Oh, yeah, it was swift. Like, I mean, it you know, we didn't anticipate the growth. You know, we really just wanted to go race cars, and you know, it became a thing and meeting new people, you know, and you know, finding people that were doing DE's and Hondas, and it just spiraled, you know, which I mean is good.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

So yeah, what a big theme on the podcast is the bigger the field, the faster everyone gets and they get there faster, you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Oh yeah. No, I mean racing faster people makes you faster, I think. I mean, I saw a memory on Facebook and it said something about like my best time at VIR, my personal best was like a 216-9 or something. And you know, back then I thought I was setting the world on fire. You know, now if you're not running 12s or you know, getting to 12s, you're slow. I mean, even 12s and in the mid-Atlantic at VIR is you're not keeping up with the front runners. I mean, right. So, but yeah, I mean it grew a lot and it was great.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Still is great, it still is great. Um, you guys gotta stop having kids so we can keep racing.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yeah, it's uh I don't know, man. Some people they can manage both, you know, the home life with kids and and driving, racing. You know, some people just take a break, you know. I think that's what happened this year. Um, you know, we had kind of a small showing of people, and you know, some people were buying houses, other people were having kids, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Some people bought a GT3 Porsche.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Yeah, yeah, you know, you know, we're not gonna name any names, but Holden's a bright guy. Um, but it'll come back around. I mean, we were hot and heavy, you know, and I couldn't ask for anything more as a you know, the series leader from Mid-Atlantic, you know, to have this group of guys that you know shell out the money to be there every weekend, you know. And I understand taking a break. I mean, I only raced once this year, and well, and then the end of the season in the new car, but that was because I didn't have a new car budget and a racing budget. So I built the new car. Next year, I'm gonna do a full season.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

So nice, nice. So let's talk a little bit about you trolling. You guys trolled the paddock for all the Honda kids. Is that a recommended strategy for people who are trying to grow their class?

SPEAKER_02 7:03

I mean, yeah, you definitely want to, you know, approach people, you know, and you know, just get to know them and let them know that you know, there's if they need help at the track, if they need parts, you know, kind of want to approach them that way first, you know. You don't want to attack them and be like, hey, make your make your car a race car, get out of here, you know. But um finding people that are at the track that are driving your car, like you know, Hondas or whatever, or BMWs, whatever you're trying to grow, um, that's definitely the best way to grow, you know, your class. Um teaching them new things, helping them out, and then bringing them into the circle, and eventually people they'll get there, you know, they'll do it. And the ones that don't want to do it, I mean, that's fine. They just come and hang out. I mean, it is a very expensive thing that we do. Oh, yeah. You know, it's not it's not for the faint of heart for sure when it comes to spending money, but you know, if you can afford it, if they can afford it, they will definitely do it.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, so you talked a little bit about bringing them into the fold. Um our group can be slightly rowdy.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Oh, there's zero doubt about that.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

But we're not all rowdy.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

No, but the the uh 50% that are rowdy, it's rowdy enough for for the whole group, that's for sure. I mean, there's four of us going down to uh Seabring in December next month, and I'm sure they haven't heard people screaming Honda Challenge at their dinner banquet probably all year. Right. Well, there'll be four of us, and we're gonna try to be loud and you know get some recognition. So um I think it'll be a blast.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

So that trip you're going down to Seabring in December, is that a points race for Florida? Is it the NASA Florida race, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Yeah, I it's it's a points race for them, but there's no there's zero Honda Challenge guy signed up for this event. I mean, it is close to Christmas. Um, I know a lot of people are not traveling, you know, when it comes that, you know, that close to Christmas or spending that kind of money go, you know, that close to Christmas. Um, but we decided, you know, we sort of made this plan and was like, you know, let's just let's just go, you know. So but uh it is a points race for them, but we're not gonna be messing anybody up.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

So yeah, I I was less worried about you messing them up. I would assume their points stuff would be pretty solidified by now.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Yeah. And then well, funny story, the last event at VIR, I kind of got in the middle of two spec three guys that were racing for the championship. Winner takes all. And I kinda I was racing for first, they were racing for first, and you know, Hunter and I kind of got in the mix of them and uh kind of cost John McAvoy the championship. Luckily, I know him. Right, also a customer of mine, hopefully still. Um, but uh, you know, I mean, maybe next time we just ask, you know, hey, you guys got any close battles going on, or you know, if you're gonna, you know, play with other people, you know, but he took it well. I mean, he's won plenty of championships.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

So yeah, yeah. I'm sure his trophy wall has plenty of them on there. So yeah. Who won? Ford, I think.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Ford won. And of course, when I was talking to him and McAvoy at the same time, Ford asked me what my PayPal was, you know. So just taking little shots, but uh no, it was good. I mean, I gave McAvoy a bump on the back straight, trying to push him back into the race, you know. Meanwhile, trying to stay ahead of Hunter, right? And uh, you know, I knew that I got in his way, you know, so I try to give it back.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

That's awful generous of you, as fast as Hunter is on the straightaways.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Yeah, with his lear jet wagon, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

So yeah, that thing is a missile, but yeah, absolutely. Well, let's get into this. You've talked about both cars a little bit. So we have the type R. That's 501. Maybe it'll get featured in nine more years whenever that episode comes.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

I'll still have it, so it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Um, so that's the car you HPD'd in. You built it for H2 uh to race with Naveen and Ryan and PB. Right. And then the rest of us found you and decided to come play. Um so let's talk about the car. What's what's a basic type R build in Honda Challenge H2?

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Like we're talking money-wise, or I mean right now we we can leave the money out of it. I mean, everybody knows everybody has different level budgets, and um I mean I sold a bunch of parts off of the car because it was a streetcar to sort of pay for the racing setup, um, you know, some fancy JDM stuff. Um but back then, you know, I I got into it for relatively cheap, you know, just nothing crazy. I didn't have big money for suspension or anything. Just, you know, some Fortune 500s, then it has Fortune 510s now. But um I mean, you can do it on stock brakes with some good brake pads, good brake lines, good brake fluid, you know, intake header exhaust. I mean, you don't people think that you need to go crazy to get into racing. You just safety equipment's the most important part. Right. And then just get you out on track. You know, yes, some of our guys are they were fast out of the bag, you know, holding Chris. These dudes came out their rookie years and and killed it. You know, I mean I had fun my rookie year because everybody I was racing was green, you know, like Baker came out a couple times, I think, but you know, racing Ryan, Peabody, and Naveen, we were all rookies, you know, so we were we were learning, you know, so uh it worked out, but you don't need to have a a blue printed mapped car to start racing. No, you know, it's you just you just don't need that, you know. Um of course you wouldn't want to go out there with a single camera or anything, but I'm sure it's been done.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Um but the type R is just a it was a good platform to start with, and uh but of course now you know every B series part is ten million dollars, so yeah, it was much cheaper for you in 2016 or 2011 whenever you got the car because there weren't five thousand dollar C5 engines, they were yeah, maybe fifteen hundred back then.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

I think I got my last swap that I bought from a JDM importer was twenty five hundred bucks maybe with the trans? Uh did not come with the trans.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

So just the engine, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

So still kind of expensive, but even nowadays, I mean it's it's more than that, right? So um but yeah, I mean it's it's been a great car, but it was time uh time to reinvest myself into something else and reignite, like you said, the the fire, the passion, and move on to a different setup, which I did not want to do, which I actually and he's enjoying it way more than he wants to admit. It's true, it's true. So for anybody out there, I was the biggest anti-K series person ever, at least in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

But um, you know Chris has that torch now, it's fine. Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

I pass it on to Chris Michaels, but you know, in my mind it was it's boring, they don't sound good, blah blah blah, whatever. You know, it's just like having an iPhone, you know, and then you have people that have the other thing. Sorry if I just offended everybody, but uh sorry, Brian Mang. Yeah, Brian Mang. Um but yeah, so I finally decided, all right, this year I'm gonna do a K swap in the the Civic uh that I bought for my buddy. Um I know new, well, I still really don't know much about it. Um, I didn't know anything, you know what K24 this, K20 that, Z3, A2, you know, all the codes, and you know, I'm still trying to learn, you know, B series was much easier. So but uh yeah, so that's we're in a K series now, and I have to say it is such a blast to drive. It might not be super fast, but the torque makes it feel like it's a rocket ship.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

You're plenty fast enough already. Mike. Mike's being a little humble here.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Well, I mean, I'll tell you what, with my type R motors, I was never able to get above the horsepower cap. Like always, I was just right there. So this car finally, you know, you know, tuned over the horsepower cap. We had to bring it back a little bit. So I set it at 181, just so I can be one horsepower over. And then I'll compensate with the weight. But I was so happy to have an engine that I finally made over the cap. So it was very impressive. Darren Ardinger helped me out so much. So but yeah. Yeah, he may not tune anybody else on a Hall Tech, but well, we definitely put uh we put some miles on the engine um on the dyno trying to figure different things out. And you know, some of it was wiring issues, and you know, I tried to do the simple plug and play stuff. Of course, you know I emailed hybrid and said I need a list of everything. Everything that I need. And while some stuff I didn't really need, it was very it was the easy button, and I don't have a lot of time because I'm very busy, so the easy button is what I needed.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

So self-employed problems, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

I mean, you know as well as I do, I work a lot.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah, so that's why I'm at the shop so you could um work all day.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

It's Sunday and I'm working, so has to pay for that seabring time, so yeah, it's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Actually, you know, the price for seabring, um, we're doing uh full race weekend. We got a garage, each of us got a garage, and we're doing a double down just on Saturday, D E.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

And it was only like 925 bucks for the garage, a double down Saturday and racing?

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yeah, okay. Pretty uh, I mean, so it's gonna cost obviously some gas and stuff to get down there. Some gas. Right. And we'll sleep in the truck, you know. I'm not I'm not gonna bring the RV, I'll bring the truck this time. So, you know, sleeping in the trailer, and you know, that's that's all fun of it, but it saves money and it'll be a memory.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

So yeah, this but this is not your first time at Seabring, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:10

No, I actually finished third. I finished third in championships there in 2018, 20.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

National championships.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

National championships. I finished third. And it doesn't matter that there was only four cars racing. I mean I had to beat one person, and that was Ryan Bradfield, and it was fun. But the track is a lot of fun. It's bumpy, but it's not it's not hateful. You know, it's like I don't know how to explain it, but if you can ever get there, bucket list track at least, go there one time. You know, if you never go back, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

It's a World War II retired airstrip, I think.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

So yeah. I mean the transitions and stuff from pavement to concrete is you know, it's interesting and the layout is fun, and like I said, you know, we went to Coda, bucket list track. I can't ever say that I will make a trip back there. Right, you know, but it's one and done. You know, you can put the sticker on the back of your truck or whatever, and you know, that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

So that was a that was a long trip for a lot of folks. Oh yeah. I mean, I think a there was a big contingent from mid-Atlantic that went all the way down to Coda, so yeah, yeah, and I think uh I think we finished pretty strong then too.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

I mean, it was uh I don't know, four, four people, four mid-Atlantic guys in the top five or six, top six, I think. So it was pretty it was pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

I know Chris finished second. He was wearing that hat for a while.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Oh yeah, yeah, he did really well, especially in a B16.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

So yeah, he must have been wringing that thing's neck at Coda trying to get it up to speed.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Yeah, he's a good driver. I mean, he's some people just have it, yeah, you know, and I don't know. I don't think I have it. I always blame the car, but I'm starting to get a little bit more confident, and hopefully we can have some good racing next year and not just be on an island, you know. You and I will battle, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Yeah, you're getting a little too fast for me, Mikey. Well, we'll see. I mean, but speed breeds speed, so you know. I mean, if you're chasing me, it'll make you faster and so on and so forth. You know, Brent Brent and I used to be on the same level and he accelerated big time and no, he has the same engine you do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

I mean now, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

It's uh it definitely makes a difference. You know, the K-Series stuff is you know, the torque is astronomical. I can't say enough about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Um you hear that rules committee?

SPEAKER_02 20:50

No, I hear it.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

For those that don't know, being the regional series director in Honda Challenge also puts you on the rules committee.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

So yes, I am on the rules committee, and it is um it's a job to say the least, you know. Um, we don't work 24 hours around the clock, but some people would like to think that we do. Um, you know, and I'm I like to think that I'm fair in my decision making, you know, even in the region, you know, doing compliance and stuff, but you know, when when you get a rules request, and you know, there might be some things you need to work out, you know, to get an answer. Um, but you got to get all the guys online at the same time. You know, we try to do like a uh conference call, you know, we're in all different time zones. We all have different jobs, you know, it's very difficult. Um, but we've worked it out, you know. But sometimes it takes a while to get an answer. Right. You know, and then if you're split, then you're gonna argue about it, you know, should we pass this rule or not? You know, who does it affect? You know, there's a lot of stuff that goes into it. Yeah. You know, and then there's also the thing of if you if you send me a rules request and you want to change the horsepower of something, or you want to change this part which changes something else, you know, the unfortunate thing is 95% of the time we're going to tell people you got to submit data with it.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

You know, and I know that's difficult because some people don't want to give up their data because they don't want you to see their, you know, they don't want you to see their data. You know, they don't want you to see how they're doing on track.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

And um for the good and the bad.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Right. Yeah. So I mean it's there's a lot that goes into it. And for the most part, people are patient and people do get upset when things get turned down, but I mean, it's just gonna take time, time, patience, and data.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

So and then you have idiots like me who put in rules requests to update the rules request form. Yes, I will never forget that time. And then uh well, because you want data, but our current form only lets you type three sentences.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

So I fixed it, but they didn't want to use it. And then I sent in a rules request for all the typos.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Yes, it's uh there's a lot of hands in the pot when it comes to writing these rules and oh yeah, you know, the history of it and the changing of the cars, you know, um from the golden era stuff to you know now Kevin Helms with his new Civic type R. Which we're desperately trying to figure out where he can go, you know, how he can fit in without saying, hey, you know, choke your engine way down and put 20550 tires on it. Right, you know, I mean you want to at 3,700 pounds or something ridiculous. Yeah, I mean you want to make it fun for him, you know, but I just you know, maybe we need to bring back uh Honda Challenge Unlimited, you know, but will that bring anybody else out? Who knows? You know, but it's hard to to make everybody happy, that's for sure. But we want to see Kevin Helms stay in Honda Challenge. Oh yeah. And we're just you know, we'll work on it.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

It just takes time, so but not just that, you're looking at uh the evolution, the new A-Spec or whatever, the Integra A-Spec. Same engine, right? Basically. Um we we want to sustain the class forever, right? And to do that in our type of racing, it's not spec Miata, where one day they're gonna be like, this is the new Miata, right? Right. We're trying to make Hunter's square body Honda Accord wagon equalize with your what is that, a 2000 Civic Coupe with a K series in H2. Then you open up the H1 rules. H2 is pretty tame. This is your horsepower cap, live with it, right? Okay, but in H1, it's sort of like the world's your oyster pick, it's a builder's class, sort of. Right. I mean it's the problem is Honda's giving you a really excellent canvas to work on with some of these new cars, right? That the older cars can't uh necessarily keep up with, you know. I don't think a B series is gonna compete in H1 ever again.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Right. It would definitely be very, very difficult, I think.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

So it's cost prohibitive to buy the parts, right? And then Lord knows how much you have to put into it just to make it competitive. You know, sleeving blocks and sending your head out to get CNC ported, all that stuff, and then Brian Bradfield will drive around you with a J series, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Oh yeah, yeah, that thing's that thing's pretty uh it definitely drives around and away from you. I found out out at a summit last year.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Even with all your K series torks.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Hey, but he was impressed though. I mean, he said, you know, it it pulls hard in the corner, so you know, maybe I'll let you drive it one day.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

I bet it pulls harder in the corners than mine, because well, it's it's fresh. So I know you complained about mine pulling your C5 in the corners, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

I mean, it's definitely a noticeable thing, you know, when you're in the C5, and I think my car was like 189, 130 foot pounds, and you know, I literally was like laughing to myself, laughing out loud to myself in the car when we would come out of a corner and you would just you know, I mean, but we don't, you know, the rules aren't built based on torque, and hopefully they never will be. That's just the choice people are gonna have to make with their their setups, you know. I mean, for me, I feel like some of these B series guys, if they go to K series, they're gonna be super dangerous, they're gonna be very fast. Oh, yeah, you know, and but speed breeds speed, so you know, I'm all for it.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

I think they'll make the transition one day.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

There's no way they I mean you can't sustain spending you know five, six thousand dollars on an engine just to possibly blow it up, and then OEM parts are like next to impossible to find. Right, you know, unless we revamp the rule book a hundred percent, just throw it out and start over. You know, it's gonna be hard to get what you want.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

So I mean the price of these C5s, I think you can get a billet block and head.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Aftermarket billet block and head to put your crank in and then but the rules have to allow that, they have to.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

You're right, you're right. But um, and I'm open to anything, but you know, you have I don't know how many people, six, seven, eight people that we have to satisfy, and some people have way more knowledge than me. You know, I'm not gonna sit here and act like I know everything. Sometimes I get a rules request and I need to go look up what they're talking about. You know, I mean, I'm yes, I've enjoyed racing cars for years and driving cars, but you know, I'm not the most knowledgeable guy on the rules committee by any means.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

So well, I would like every car has to be shiny. So you're professional at that. We can get that done, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yeah, yeah. Or we just wrap it, you know. Well, but yeah. So if and you know, if if people don't know, my business is shine in line, and uh we do auto detailing, spray on bedliners, um undercoating, undercoating, uh ceramic coating, paint corrections, all things protection for vehicles. Um so there's my plug for the business, but don't put your beer on his car. Yeah, don't put yeah, especially on my aluminum wing, you know, from uh Nine Lives Racing, not sponsored. Yeah, come on, Johnny. Let's get let's get with it here.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

But if I do have to give a shout out to somebody, it's illusions raps.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

You know, they are you know top of the line guys, so I definitely appreciate every everything that they've done for me has been incredible.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

So I mean we're we're literally recording on the bed of your freshly wrapped K truck. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yep, they killed it, man. I mean, if you guys need to race cars wrapped, I'll let you know where to go.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

So yeah. Mike's got matchy, matchy cars, Zach's car even matches. Yeah, uh, they do good work.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

So well, the owner taught me it's all about branding, you know, and that's what I'm trying to do is brand the business and have some fun while I'm at it, you know. If I can't be fast, I might as well look good.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

So yeah, but now you're doing both.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

I'm trying. The car's it's exceptional. So it but it's legal, I promise.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

I'm not okay. So this will this will blend a couple of the topics we've been into because we get some we're family at the track, even outside the track. I I think we're family, and every family has dysfunctional pieces and they don't always agree, right? But people like all right. We don't know where it turned off. No, we don't know where it turned off. Some technical difficulties, but we'll go back to the last topic. In that we're pretty much a big family in the mid-Atlantic region, and it's that time of year where we get the rules requests, we get all these uh people get spicy, right? We're not racing anymore, they think they should have been faster, somebody else should have been faster, whatever. Um, we get the Facebook group going. And because we're a big family, like we don't always agree, we don't always like each other, but I think we're amenable, right? So uh I when you're you get the rules request. Ah, well let's not talk about the rules request. When somebody thinks somebody is cheating, what's what's the process that we should go through?

SPEAKER_02 31:37

So the process that you definitely need to go through is filling out a uh protest form, you know, pinpointing the part, the exact part that you think is causing this person to have this excess power or whatever you think that they're doing. Right. You know, you have to pinpoint one thing, you can't just turn in a form and say, This guy's running two seconds faster than me, tear down his entire car and find out what it is. You know, you need to say this person has an illegal intake or whatever. Yeah, right. And that's the only way that I'll do it just because of the past. Um, I got a talk into about trying to do some research on a complaint that I received about another driver. You know, there's a there's a set rule, there's set rules that you know I have to follow too. You know, and I was trying to be friendly, you know, and unfortunately with my job as you know, as a series director, yes, you guys are all my friends, we're buddies, we hang out, have a couple cold ones after the race, whatever, but I have to separate, you know, myself from the friendship side when it comes to policing you guys and compliance. So um I try to do some research, you know, on a part that somebody said was illegal. I shouldn't have done it that way. It needs a protest form, you know, and it's done by the book. Um, I don't remember exactly what the fee is, but I think you you the person that submits the protest form has to pay X amount of money.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

I think it's only like 50 bucks. Right. So if you And you have 30 minutes post-race to do it.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Yes, exactly. Um but uh and I'm yeah, so that's the process.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

I'm pretty sure we also you also have to tell them that it's illegal before you protest them. Or say you have concerns with it. Yeah, yeah, according to the Honda Challenge rules.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Right. Yeah. Um but you know, I mean, you definitely get, you know, I could see some, you know, validity to it if you know somebody that's super fast is getting pulled on by another person. You know, they're they're equal drivers, but for some reason this other person is pulling on them pretty hardcore, you know, whether it's coming out of the corners or on the back straight or whatever. You know, I could see you know that, but most of us mid-pack drivers, if we accuse somebody that regularly runs three seconds faster than we do, it doesn't make any sense. You know, at that point, it's for me, it's not, you know, those people aren't cheating. Us mid-pack people just need to get faster. Absolutely. I mean, I could compare my data to you know to Chris's data all day long, and you know, it he's gonna blow me away. You know, it's easy for me to say, well, he's cheating because he's super fast and I'm not, you know. I mean, it's that's why, you know, there has to be a protest form. You have to put it in writing and you know, we'll work it out.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Be specific. So it's this part violating this rule, yes, number. Yes. Here's my$50 check with my form that you get at the tech shed. Right. And then things will escalate from there.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Yeah. And, you know, at the start of my being the series leader, I was very lenient on compliance, you know, just checking weight and you know, socks and you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

You know, I just yeah, but uh at nationals, didn't somebody bust it?

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Somebody wasn't wearing socks at nationals, you know, and it's not a disqualification, thankfully for them, you know. And I feel like, you know, when I went around and and said, show me your socks, you know, there were people that were like shocked that I asked that. You know, and it's just a keeping it keeping you on your toes thing, you know. I don't want you to get disqualified for not wearing socks, but you know, I mean we also don't want you to get burned extra. Safety equipment is a bit, you know, it's important. So um, but yeah, so you know, fill out the form if you have an issue and you know, we'll work it out because I want to catch people cheating. I don't want to catch people cheating, but I want to catch people cheating. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Right. Like if they're doing it, you want to catch them at it.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Right. It's club racing, you know. I mean, it I don't know what you're cheating for, you know. If you win the region, it's a thousand bucks in Toyota dollars, I think.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

And my five dollar piece of plastic. Right. I mean wood or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

You know, I just don't, I don't they always say, you know, winning isn't everything, and and for me, you know, I'd rather have a great battle with somebody like Hunter. The last time we were, you know, when we were battling at VIR, he beat me by 0.1 seconds, I think. I mean, it I would rather have that all day long than you know, gap the field by five seconds and be out there by myself, you know. I mean, especially in club racing. You know, if we were getting paid to do this, fine, let me gap the field all day long, you know, but I I'll just say it now. I cannot stand people who cheat. And if I catch you cheating in my region, the country's gonna know about it. Chris Gabeto said your race license will be suspended indefinitely. Your story, your name, your picture will go in NASA Speed News, and you'll never race with NASA again, and probably not with any other organization. Why? Because you had to get that first place plastic piece of the trophy that trophy. I mean, it doesn't, you know, it's dumb, you know, and you're robbing the other people that are really putting their heart and soul into it and trying to win on their skills alone, you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

And car development. So I wanted to get into that. Yeah. Because we had a little bit of we had a conversation offline that didn't it wasn't part of the deleted airwaves, but sometimes we get the accusation that H2 is too fast.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Yeah, I've definitely heard those rumblings before.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

It's usually annually about this time on Facebook.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

Yeah. And I'll tell you why H2 is so fast, and we are fast. You know, even the slow guys are fast. You know, you compare times from now to you know six, seven years ago. I mean, we're fast.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

And our front runners are even faster. Some of them are faster than H1 guys, and I'll tell you why. It's because of research and development. H1, you know, I'm sure at some point was a huge, super fun class, you know, but when you have 70% of Honda Challenge running H2, all the development is going into the rule sets, how the cars are set up according to those rules, driving the car to its limits based on those rules. That's why H H2 is so fast.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Well, and and look at look at the consumable rate. Okay, so an H2 car will chew through tires in X amount. I guarantee the H1 cars go through it faster. All of it brakes, tires, all the consumables, okay? But H2 is in that pocket where it's still let's just call it affordable to do practice days, and they do. Right. Our front runners, our mid-pack guys, they do practice days.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Oh, and they can and people don't know it because some of these guys will do practice days without telling anybody. Absolutely. You know, Friday at the track at Summit Point, you know, at five o'clock at night, they'll send a picture at the track and they've been there all day, you know, developing things. You know, one guy went out, I won't name any names, but he tested angles of of the wing. You know, I mean, you can't do that on a race weekend. I mean, you can adjust it if you want, but that's not the smart time to do it. I mean, these guys are putting in hours and hours of development practice days to hone this this class.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Yeah, and they're collecting copious amounts of data. Right. They're pouring over it, they're eliminating things to try, they're highlighting new areas to try, and they're doing it.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Right. And then, you know, another one, people probably be shocked to hear this, but there's one driver that I know, there might be more, but he has different spring rates for each corner of his car depending on what track he's at. I mean, that's insane research and development to me. Yep. And he's an H2 guy. Yep. If he brought that same, you know, idea to H1, I'm sure whatever H1 car he drives would eventually be a rocket ship. You know, and but H1 will get there. You know, Ryan Bradfield is doing is doing his thing with the you know, his car, and that car in a couple years, I think is going to be beyond fast. And hopefully it brings, you know, the other H1 guys out of the woodworks. I know Justin is, you know, he spent a lot of time and money on his car and had an unfortunate incident at VIR, you know, but I'm sure once he's back online, you know, him and Bradfield hopefully will be battling each other at VIR and summit and then maybe bring more Southeast guys up, or maybe there'll be a crossover event. I don't know. But you can't sit here and complain about a class being fast when we've been developing just in mid-Atlantic since 2016. We've been developing this class seven years, going on eight years. You know, other regions have had H2 for they never had a gap, you know, where there was no H2 guys or you know, Honda Challenge guys. But we're only gonna get faster. I mean, that's all there is to it. Absolutely. I mean, I don't know, I don't even know what else to say about that, you know. But I don't like people that cheat. And you know, sometimes I'm soft, you know, I'll I'll admit it. You know, I'm it's hard for me sometimes as a competitor to go through your car. You know, I'm gonna go through your car, I'm gonna search, you know, trace all your wires, I'm gonna do all this, and then I'm gonna go get my race car and drive. Sometimes that's a little hard for me. You know, and some people probably don't like that, but I'm an open book. You know, if you want to get in my car and and check it out and unplug stuff and plug it back in, and you know, if I trust you, you can take it out for a lap. You know, I'll do that. You know, just because I'm the compliance guy doesn't mean that I'm only checking your stuff. I disqualified myself two seasons ago at Hyperfest. Yep, I was three horsepower over, didn't have the weight to cover it. In a C5, you were over horsepower? Only by three, and it was the weather. I swear it was the weather, because that car never made over 190 and it made like 192 and a half or something. And I was the series leader, and uh that's where my integrity level is. I could have easily because the first run, the map or whatever the graph, it was like scribble. And in the rule book, it says if the compliance directors believes that there's something wrong with the dyno, I can throw it out. Right. And based on the first graph, I could have been like, no, I'm good. You know, my car, this something's not right, but I disqualify. And I won that race, and I disqualified myself. So that's where my you know my integrity level is, if anybody ever doubts it, you know. But just don't get caught cheating, don't cheat, don't get caught cheating, and we won't have an issue.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

As a competitor. In the region, I can say I definitely appreciate your integrity on this issue.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Yeah. I mean, I work hard to try to get fast, and you know, if somebody feels like they need a map switch to beat me, you know, I don't know how they can go home at night with a first place trophy and be like, I'm the best. When you're not, you suck. You know, I mean, I don't mean to be mean about it, but I mean that's just the truth.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

So yeah, Honda Challenge is not NASCAR of the 70s, right? Like we're not we're not testing a rule book here. We're operating within the rule book.

unknown 44:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

You know, and there is, you know, being within the spirit of the rules and not within the spirit of the rules and finding loopholes, and you know, it is what it is, you know. Until it's black and white on the paper, I mean, you just have to abide by it, you know. If you find a loophole, use it until it it's either approved or not approved. Yeah. You know. But yeah, I definitely I enjoy my job as a series leader. Um it kind of fell into my lap because Naveen gave it over to me. And you know, I mean, I would go to Utah if NASA wanted me to. I fly out there. I'm not I'm not going out there to race, but I would go out there as the you know the Honda Challenge guy again. And you know, I really enjoyed nationals meeting people, and uh, you know, just yes, I I would have rather been racing, but you know, being there for the guys, having information when they needed it, you know, all this that's all fun to me, you know. So I would definitely go to you Utah if uh if they asked me to.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Were you were you the series leader and compliance person for HANA Challenge?

SPEAKER_02 45:51

So I was the basically I was the series leader and then I had to come up with compliance.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

But you know, they had other people checking compliance. Um the only thing I wish, I wish we had a couple different tools. There were other things I wanted to check that I couldn't check. Um, but I will be bringing that stuff to our region this year. You know, I won't say what it is, but we'll keep people on their toes.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Yeah, don't be like Cabeto and tell me I have to bleep stuff later.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

No, no, this is I'm an open book right now. Of course, there are things that I want to say that I have learned as a quote unquote employee of NASA. Yeah, that I can't say one involves one of our racers. You know, I mean it's some things aren't fair, and hopefully they get resolved and I can put it to bed, but I'm really passionate about that issue. Um that's all I can't say anything else about that.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Because I don't even know what you're talking about, so we'll just let that one fly, and if they listen, they'll know what you're talking about, right? So oh yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

But yeah, that's uh that's my feelings on compliance and catching people cheating and you know being the guy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

There literally is no reason to cheat in any class.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

No, you know, and and people say if you're not cheating, you're not trying. You know, I don't know how they do it in the drag race world and circle track racing. You know, in our in our the cars are apparently supposed to be built to be the same, you know, power to weight, blah, blah, blah, whatever, you know. But some people are honestly just good drivers. Oh, yeah. You know, and you know, they believe in their brakes, which I don't. You know, my bra I've lost brakes two or three times at Summit. You know, I'm on a completely different setup now, but I'm still not confident in going in there super deep and getting on the brakes, and that's where I'm losing a crap ton of time.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Me too.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

And until I get there, everybody's just gonna be faster than me. So, and my my uh red line needs to be moved up a little bit, my rev limiter. Stupid 7,500 RPMs.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

It's not 9,000 anymore or 88 or 85, whatever you were running that C5 to. It's different.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

Yeah, it's a lot of fun though. I really enjoyed the the K Series life.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

I never thought I would say that, but yeah, I would never thought I'd hear you say it. I was a little shocked when you said you were going to try it out.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Well, I think the main thing that allowed me to try it out was having this second car. Um backstory on the car. I bought it from PB. Um had a B16 in it, it was race ready. I raced it once at VIR and uh, you know, it was underpowered and overweight, but I had fun finishing last.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

I don't think you were last in the car, but okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

And then I let one of my buddies drive it and or race it, actually, and he hit a tire wall with it.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

So this is that aspect of family we have.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Yeah, you know, here, drive my race car, but you know, and it is what it is, you know. When you let somebody drive your car, that's the risk you take, unless you sign a contract saying if you bend my car, you're gonna pay for it. Right. You know, but most of the time it's take this thing out there, and you know, and then it was an accident, you know, what happened to him with the rain and stuff. Um zero ill will, even though you know you come out of, you know, you're under yellow and you come over the hill and you see your car, your other car, and the tire wall, you know, you're like, I hope he's okay so I can kick his ass, you know. But um, so having the second car kind of allowed me to have an opportunity to do the case series because I absolutely would not put one in the type R. Because it's a true type R, even though it's not the origin.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

I have the original engine, but I didn't want to do that to the type bar. It's Mike's retirement plan. Bring a trailer 50 years when he's too arthritic to wash a car.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Well, if you peel that wrap off, it's a little uh it's not so pretty under there. But uh I I did sell a couple engines to uh fund, partially fund the new build, the new K-Series build, and I went overboard, but Adam Doublo Civic is that his Doublow Civic. Yeah, he touched on something in his podcast. You didn't think I listened, but he touched on something in his podcast about you know, if you can afford it, you know, spend it right the first time. You know, if you can if you can get the good parts the first time, get them because you're gonna get them eventually. Yep, you know, and I work weekends and extra overtime and sold some engine parts or sold a couple engines and you know to build that thing. And did I go overboard? Probably, but it's worth it, it's fun. So if you can afford it, do it, get the right parts the first time, you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

So yeah, I mean, everybody operates on a different budget. So everybody's like, oh my god, you built a car and you know, over the winter for me, basically. And I was like, okay, yeah, sure, I did. Um, but I had a very strict budget. And I if I save money somewhere else, it's going somewhere, you know, to to improve another part somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

So and that's why some of us are dedicated to this doing this more than others are, you know. I mean, for me, honestly, if I have a choice of spending money on on one thing or spending it on racing, I want to spend it on racing. Yeah, you know, I'm older, you know, than some of the people that we that we race with, and I couldn't afford to have this kind of fun when I was younger. Yeah, you know, so I want to do it now, but I don't want to bring like the mood down, but we had some tragedies in the family, you know, extended family, and you know, it really made me see that life is super short. Like, you never know, you know, we could finish this podcast and I'm you know I could die in the back room, you know. I mean, but it showed me that, you know, if you're gonna do something, if you want to do something, do it. If you have the means to do it, do it, you know. Um I'm not saying like take out your 401k and kind of travel the world, but I mean something as small as, you know, let's build this new let's build this new race car, let's reignite the flame, you know, because sure the type R was a blast to drive, but driving that car for I don't know, how over 10 years. Yeah, over 10 years, you know, it was time to to learn something new, make it feel exciting, drive something new, you know, and it's I feel like I'm a rookie again. It's it's I'm born again, you know, into this racing. And even though I went back into H2, which you know, Ryan Bradfield said, don't do that. You know, everybody races H2. There's a whole bunch of people that I want to race with. You know, it it feels new to me again. You know, I don't I think if I still was driving the type R, I don't think I would go to Seabring in December. You know, I I did that. Right. You know, but this thing is it's new. So but if you if you can if you have the means to do it, even if it's just track time, you know, DE stuff, do it.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

Yeah, do more track time.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

Yeah, I mean do do what makes you happy, you know. And I don't know, for me it's racing or track days, hanging out with my friends, you know, there's nothing better than that to me. So and I don't like to go on vacation. Sorry, Monica. Yeah, but um, yeah, I mean that's where I'm at now.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

So awesome. Well, I think that'll wrap it up. We'll splice this thing together. Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on for your episode. Do you have anything else you want to talk about? Because it is your episode, episode 51.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Um, I don't think so. I mean, if if there's anybody out there that is interested in getting into Honda Challenge, um you can reach out to me, you know, uh Ma Hana Challenge at gmail.com, uh Instagram, track that shit, uh Facebook, track that shit. Um I don't know, we never really talked about the whole track that shit thing.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Yeah, let's talk about it. Um it's your brand, much to the chagrin of my parents, but whatever.

SPEAKER_02 54:56

Yeah, so I kinda I did want to talk about this though, because people always, you know, they either hate it or they love it, you know, they see it in public and they're offended by the word shit or whatever, but it was never meant to be vulgar. Um it basically came about um during the DE days. It was uh, you know, if you're street racing or you know racing on the back roads or whatever, basically like, no man, track that shit, you know, or you know it whatever. It was meant to like say, hey man, take your car to the track, you know. Don't uh don't go doing dangerous stuff on the road or whatever. And uh actually when I made the account for uh Instagram, it got deleted because it had the word shit in it. Okay, so I had to email Instagram and explain to them you know what it was all about or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

It's promoting going to the safe spot, not not doing dangerous things on the street.

SPEAKER_02 55:59

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

And they let it fly.

SPEAKER_02 56:01

Oh yeah. I mean they they emailed me back and they were like, okay, you know, whatever, and they reopened the account and you know, I've sold t-shirts and stickers and stuff, and you know, not for profit. I don't think I've ever made a dollar. In fact, I know I spent money shipping out t-shirts. Right. Um, but it's nice to know that somewhere in Ireland there's a guy with a track that shit sticker on his car, you know. And when I tell people sometimes when I meet them, you know, talking about the car or whatever, and I'm like, yeah, if you're on Instagram, it's track that shit, and they know it. You know, they've they've been to the account or they follow the account. It's not huge, like 3,000 followers or something, but it's 3,000 people that like the same thing, except for the bot followers, but I try to delete those. Me too. But yeah, so I'm on Instagram, track that shit, uh, Facebook, track that shit, and I'm more than happy to answer any questions about people that are wanting to come into Honda Challenge. Um I always tell people just come out for a weekend or a day, Saturday, and just show up in your car and hang out, maybe get a ride along. You know, that's how I got hooked. Andy Meek was the first ride-along I ever had at CMP, and I thought it was the most insane thing ever. You know, he was cool as a cucumber. Hand shifted gears and then put his hand on his lap going around the carousel one-handed. I mean, you're not supposed to do it like that, but you know, he took me out and you know, it was awesome. And then my first track weekend, Andy Meek's dad was my instructor, and he's well known. Um, and it's nice to see Andy still at the track. Yeah, you know, I think he's at uh he works with Kevin Helms now. So he quit his job at the one place I don't I don't think I should name it, but now he's working with Kevin Helms and seems happy. So yeah, is it Asia Works?

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Asia Works, yeah. I didn't want to his race team is Honda Works. Yeah, the business is Asia Works. Yeah. I'm sure somebody at Honda got butthurt about it. I'm surprised we're still allowed to call ourselves Honda Challenge. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

Oh yeah, but yeah, I mean that's pretty much it. I mean, little plug there for track that shit and shining line down here in Fredericksburg. Yeah, I definitely have done work for a lot of the guys in the mid-Atlantic, and you know, I'm I'm down to give discounts to all you know NASA guys, NASA people, non-NASA people. You come in, tell me you heard the podcast. You know, so but it was a lot of fun, man. I mean, I would I know I gave you a lot of crap about doing this, not wanting to do this, but I think I just ramble and sound like an idiot when I talk. Nah, you're fine.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

I do it every week, so multiple times a week sometimes. I just ramble and people listen. The object is to get information out there and uh help keep that fire going, help people, help people get faster. So yeah. I mean, I don't know how knowledgeable I was in this little somebody out there needs their that fire re sparked. Somebody out there needs to understand how this rules process and how to engage your series leader. They need to know that because they're tripping up on something. Yeah, there's details, not every detail that's gonna make you faster is behind the steering wheel because sometimes you're holding yourself back, sometimes you're it's a head game. Sometimes I need to talk to my series leader, I don't understand how, you know, whatever. So it's it's not always you know squiggly data points on uh in your aim stuff. Seat time. Seat time's big.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

I mean, I guarantee you all these guys that are faster than me all have way more seat time than I do.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

Absolutely. That's why my goal next year is to do some sort of seat time and race every month.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:04

I mean, I'm terrible at taking notes and and checking data and you know, I'm terrible at that stuff. You know, I do tire pressures and you know, I well, on the old car I would make suspension adjustments um based on over steer and understeer. But every year I say I'm gonna make notes, and I feel like this year I'm I'm gonna do more of that because I feel you know, just reborn into this thing. I mean, it's great. So building this car was the best decision I've ever made. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

So and I'll definitely share my uh pre and post race well session checklist with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:45

Yeah, definitely. I appreciate it. I mean, maybe that's my problem. I just can't come up with something. I need somebody to be like, here you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty easy. Uh you fill out what you know, what you want to know, and then you record the same thing after the event, after the session. Yeah, notate whether you did it in hot pits or at the paddock just so you have a reference, you know. Is it post-compliance also? Like those are notes you need to take.

unknown 1:01:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

And that's the other difficult thing about being the compliance director and being a racer, is I have to be at the tech shed. You know, come off track, be at the tech shed. So I don't know, I'll have to work it out, maybe get somebody to come hang out with me and help me.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

So until we get Mark straightened out.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Yeah. He'll be back. I'm I'm confident.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:38

Me too. If you're confident, I'm confident. You just tell me who to yell at.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:43

If we uh he's we're not gonna get into it, uh, Mike.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

Thanks for coming on the show, man. You're welcome, man. Thank you.