Bex: Thanks for having me, Jill. 

Jill: I'm excited. And I just wanna start off with a couple of things. So we know your name now, how old are you and where, like where do you come from originally and where do you live now even.

Bex: Yeah, so I just turned 42 and I have been basically born and raised in an area outside of St. Louis, Missouri. So right smack dab in the middle of the United States. I've done some travel nursing at sometimes in my career, so I've been around and had some other exposure, but pretty much from. 

Jill: I don't know too much about that area of the country. I've basically always lived on the coast, so I've lived up and down the East coast and then I lived in California as well. Not really anything in between. 

Bex: Those were the places that I went to when I ran, when I ran away from here. You know, being landlocked in the middle of the country didn't serve me so well. But here I am. So you came back home after you moved around a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I had gone on a travel nursing adventure just as my husband and I were kind of getting serious in our relationship and it kind of felt like it was now or never.

I've wanted to do this for a long time, and so it's like now or never. And so I did it and absence makes a heart grow fonder. So I came home and he was part of a family business that's been, he, he just took over in the last year. But he's the fourth generation of the business. So we're kind of, we're kind of here, which is great.

It's a great community. I've actually, in the last couple of years, never been happier to be in this part of the world, to be honest. So that's where I'm at. 

Jill: That's awesome. Yeah, I, you know, moved around a lot. I came back home because my grandmother was turning 90 and I wanted to take care of her for the last few years of her life, and now I'm here and I actually love it. I love being in New Jersey. Yeah. And I'm definitely not going anywhere anytime soon. 

I would like to hear about first is when you were growing up, what was your family's way essentially, of handling death and dying? How did your parents react to it? Were you afraid of it?

I wanna know some of the background of what you felt like when you were a child. 

Bex: Interestingly enough the only things I can really remember, that our family had some pretty prominent deaths within our dynamic at a pretty early age, and I can remember is that my grandpa would always pass out and we would have to have pneumonia.

My dad would kind of like freeze up. I was raised by my dad primarily. I didn't really have a lot of interaction with my mom and that side of the family, so there wasn't a lot of experience through that. But, but that's what I can remember, you know, that like we literally had to have. Ammonia salts on hand because they would pass out from the experience.

So in a sense, in a reflection of coming to sit down with you to talk about this, I really thought about that a bit, and it really became quite clear to me why up until the last five or six years I always thought I handled death well, quote-unquote, right? Like, oh yeah, I mean, I can manage this, I can handle this, you know, and, and I was in the nursing career for almost 20 years.

I worked under the highest stress, and highest mortality rate. Well, not the highest. I did ER nursing and trauma nursing. I worked in operating rooms at academic centers where we were doing the very, very hardest of the hard, you know, surgeries, these sorts of things. So I even immersed myself in this potential to handle death.

Well, right. Until one day I didn't, you know, until one day it all caught up with me of like, oh, I've done the same thing like kind of compartmentalized it. And so that was an interesting reflection of that. I could see where my exposure through my family almost forced me to be the one that had to kind of like pull it together and had to be the one to, you know, still keep things moving, even surrounded in death.

But how that actually didn't serve me in the long run because I was never really present with death except for the most. 

An amazing experience I've had with death is when my grandma, my dad's mother did pass and we'd known she'd been sick. She got sicker, in a way that we were all able to be there with her.

And I was able, again, to be that one that could be there with her instead of pretending that it wasn't happening, you know? And I laid with her and I put on her favorite music and I sang to her, you. Interestingly enough, she waited until I had to actually like leave for a minute to go. But I have always held that as such a great honor that I was able to be there with her in those last, you know, little bits of moments to make her feel as comfortable as possible.

Jill: How old were you when your grandmother died?

Bex: So I was 22 or 23. I had just finished nursing school. It's interesting cuz it was my very first day on my own as a brand new nurse in the ER. And, you know, I get this call and I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, like, can I even leave my job because it's your first real grownup job, you know? And, and they're like, no, go. Like, go get outta here. Yeah. So it was about 20 years ago. 

Jill: Was that the first death that you really experienced, or were there people when you were younger that you experienced the death but had maybe a distance from it or anything like that? 

Bex: Yeah, so no, they, we had had a lot of prominent deaths in my family and even at, you know, 19, just a few years before my grandma had my high school sweetheart had died in a weird, random, tragic accident. It was this experience that I think, like in hindsight and what I've always held from it was really being present and really honoring the life that had been lived and how it was coming to a close.

Just really considering how it might feel to go out of this world and to just be surrounded by love and to be held and to have the family together to hold one another. The way that it was experienced was much different, within that family dynamic, we had lost my aunt. My only sister had died in her early twenties. Suddenly and unexpectedly one of her children died at only 13 years old. On a weird, like, not usual kind of experience as well, you know, the older members, the family up until that point and whatnot.  I think was different for me because it felt like, versus feeling like something was lost, it almost felt like she was gaining something.

Cuz, my grandmother was a very religious woman. And so I guess in a sense it, it, that's maybe kind of what made that difference for me was that I didn't look at it as, That we were losing her, it was that she was gaining something and that she was no longer gonna be suffering. And what could I do to just make her the most comfortable in these last moments?

And obviously, you know, I think the nursing experience at that point had some to play into that. There was a different element on how I looked at her. and what she was going through then, you know, I had ever done before when people passed. And what religion was your grandmother? So they are from Arkansas, so they are pretty solid Southern Baptist-style believers.

Jill: And was that the religion that you were raised in or was it just more your grandparents' beliefs? 

Bex: Both of my parents came from sets of parents that were pretty orthodox in their religious beliefs. So my mother's family was Catholic through and through. My dad's family was Southern Baptist through and through, and so both of them were really like, Hmm, this doesn't work for me.

It was very. You know, as in the Catholic tradition that my husband's family jokes around sometimes Christmas and Easter kind of thing. So my dad and I would go to, you know, church with my grandparents on the major holidays. You know, mother's Day. We'd go for Grandma Father's Day, we'd go for grandpa, we'd go for church and Easter too, you know, at family holidays.

But I wasn't raised with any kind of religion. Religion growing up never felt good to me, actually, and I never understood why until the last five years. I really have a real clear picture of why, and for me, the belief that there's something bigger out there than us, to me is a very unconditional love and acceptance.

And in honoring of who we each and every one of us are as individuals versus what I feel in most organized religious thought processes are. , this is how we want you to be. And if you're not, you will be shamed, blamed, and guilted. And that's, those emotions don't feel good. They're heavy. They're they have a lot wrapped up within them.

So that's kind of my history with religion. And so now, you know, it's, it's, can I go and sit in church? Sure. And I can sit there with an unbiased, you know response that I'm just, I'm there to hold space and to bring loving energy to the world, you know, in whatever way, because I did also marry a Catholic.

And so, you know, it's an interesting dynamic. 

Jill: Does your husband practice? 

Bex: You know, he still would. So like, as I was like questioning my faith, we tried out, you know, some other churches and this is how I learned what my belief processes were and why they kind of varied from being able to just show up in a church.

He was open to exploring for me, but he feels very at home in that Catholic religion and in the tradition and in the history and in his home parish. If we didn't have two small kids, I think we would be at church regularly. And I think it's something that he's really being drawn to right now to that our kids are kind of at the age where maybe we can start, be a little more accepting of how children behave in church.

And go anyway. And he's from a large family and, and it's very woven into their, their dynamic. For sure. 

Jill: Do you think that it affects your and your husband's beliefs about death and dying, that you come from different religious backgrounds? 

Bex: I don't think so. I think as far as that part goes, I think we still, the core beliefs that we have are still very resonant, at least between him and I, or that we both have mutual respect for what it is about the other.

So actually, now that I'm saying all that out loud, we probably do have great differences. And I don't know that it's through religious teaching. I've come to view death as such a sacred experience, and the morning process is such a necessity to ward off other deeper repercussions. And he is definitely of the, when I die, just throw a party, and that's hard. Wanting to honor his wishes that that's how he'd like for things to play out. But knowing that, I might be comatose and wanting to honor that too. It, it is a, a tough place to sit, you know? But do I think it's the religious upbringing from that? Mm. . I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

Jill:  I like that you said death is kind of like a sacred spiritual thing, right? And that mourning is really important. But you're right. If your partner or somebody that you're caring for feels differently and you are gonna try to honor their wishes, That could be a really difficult place for you.

You need to honor your process while also trying to honor his wishes as well. I'd like to hear more about why you think that death is this sacred experience because I agree, but not everybody feels that way, and so I wanna hear why you think so.

Bex: Probably what my beliefs have always been is that we're just in these bodies for a short time.

In the scheme of things, these are my beliefs. You know, that we are all spiritual beings that maybe come and go in many, many lifetimes, in many, many different ways, and it's a privilege to be here in this body, on this earth learning lessons that we chose to come here and learn when we're done here and we're set and ready to go to whatever the next phase of this soul's journey is.

It's like a rite of passage, in my opinion, in the way that I look at it. And it's that, you know, it's sad and it's heartbreaking and it's very, very hard for the people that are here, but I like to believe, and I have faith, that for the person leaving, it's like a spiritual upgrade. You know, they're not stuck in this.

They're not stuck in this world that, like right now, does this world make any sense? Does this world make any sense? And so how freeing, you know, how freeing to not be confined to this world and to be able to be as expansive as you wanna be, and how can we help facilitate getting people to that place with dignity and honor?

Jill: That's a great question and that's a lot of. Why I started this podcast. That's a lot of why I do the work that I do because I think the more that we talk about this topic, the more that we talk about what people believe, why they believe it for themselves, the more that we'll be able to ensure that people have the experience.

That they wanna have at the end of life, right? Because everybody is different. I think that's great that everybody's different, but I also wanna make sure that we understand what our loved ones believe so that we can help them to have the experience. I know we briefly, before we started recording talked a little bit about suicide and I feel like the topic that you were just speaking about, about how it's really freeing.

When we leave our bodies, essentially. 

I feel like that is a good segue, essentially into suicide. I have experienced the suicide of loved ones. I do feel like sometimes the way that I believe about suicide is maybe a little different than other people believe. So I'm curious and like, and again, and I hesitate to even say that because I know it's a really touchy subject.

Bex: It's stigmatized. It is so a stigma topic in the first place and then to potentially have beliefs that are outside of, the norm around them is it's, it is very touchy and it is very delicate and it's very vulnerable to talk about. And so the loss of my stepsister who had been my sister, Over half of my life we didn't believe in the idea of, you know, steps.

So this was my sister. I lost her to suicide about six years ago. It wasn't a shock because we had been shocked two weeks prior by the fact that she was even suicidal. And so this was her third attempt in a two-week period of time with two ER evaluations and an inpatient hospital admission for an extended stay.

I was the one that found her. And I was a medical professional and I had done ER work, meaning I had dealt with people in an acute mental health crisis, you know, and so there was a lot wrapped up in that for me. But I will say, aside from the initial shock of finding her, the next emotion that I felt was a relief because I knew that she hadn't been at peace for so long.

And I knew that for somebody that had grabbed at the chance, to leave here that many times in that shortest span of time, I can't imagine the kind of suffering that she must have been going through every day for so long, and just trying to fight battles that she didn't feel she was ever gonna win. So for me to wanna wish that she would've pushed on and maybe been, you know, suffering and miserable.

Because at this point, the work that I've done on myself and in my healing journey and in education around the work that I do with people now, I've come to wholeheartedly believe that all physical ailments are rooted in spiritual and emotional root, meaning they've struggled with something emotionally or spiritually that they have not been able to resolve.

Of many different reasons. Sometimes just that they don't even know where it's coming from. And so to think that people that are suffering mentally aren't also physically suffering is just, I, I just can't even wrap my head around that. Yes, I have some unique views on it because if we can look at people that are suffering from medical diagnosed, physical ailments, you know, terminal cancer and some of these other things, and be okay praying, you know, that, that they'll transition easily.

But to blame and shame people who not only suffer physically but are being mentally tortured. And I just, it doesn't sit well, it doesn't sit well with me. I mean, I have way more. I'll pause here to let you put some input in. 

Jill: I'm sorry to hear about your sister. That must have been very difficult for you for many reasons.

I know that medical aid and dying is legal in certain areas of the United States. It's legal in certain areas of the world. Most of the time when medical aid in dying is an option, it's only an option if you have a terminal illness. It's not there for people that want to end their lives because of severe depression and mental illness and other things that often will lead somebody to choose suicide on their own.

I feel very conflicted about that. If somebody really wants to end their life, they're going to do it. They're gonna do it oftentimes if they're doing it, it's in a way that leads to a loved one having to find them, which is traumatizing for the loved one. If somebody had the option to get medical aid in dying and be able to end their life in a way that they chose to end it potentially with loved ones around.

I understand not all loved ones would be able to support that, but some would, some people would say, you know what? You have been suffering because again, somebody has cancer and their body is completely breaking down and they're in pain and they're suffering. And I know that not everybody supports medical aid in dying even for that, but there are a lot of people that are like, oh, 100% you should have the option to choose to end your life when you're suffering. But there are people that have mentally suffered in some cases, almost their entire life, right? Whether it's childhood trauma, whether it's, you know, an imbalance, ancestral trauma, right? 

Bex: Yes. All of it. 

Jill: Ancestral trauma or just the trauma of the world that right? So much causes us to mentally suffer. And I, I think you and I are similar in that sense in that if somebody is really in that much pain, that death would actually be something that could be very freeing. And I would like to think that they are, hopefully, Not suffering anymore. But then there's the Catholic part of me, because I was raised Catholic as well, that immediately I'm like, they're gonna go to hell though. They're going to hell. You cannot commit suicide. That is the worst thing ever that you can do. 

And then as a mother, the thought of one of my children choosing to commit suicide absolutely breaks my heart. You know what actually breaks my heart more than that is the fact that they potentially would be in that much pain. That would be their best choice, right? That's what really breaks my heart. That I can't protect them from trauma. I can't protect them from pain and suffering. I do feel that a lot of people, on the outside they're happy and they're friendly and everybody loves them, but they're suffering so deeply on the inside.

And so when people commit suicide, like my loved one that committed suicide, he was adored by the community. And when you met him, he was this giant ball of like love and energy and exuded so much positivity, but on the inside, he was suffering so much. I remember when I got the phone call that he had committed suicide, and of course at first I was shocked, but then not really.

Yeah. And then at first I was sad, but then I also felt almost a sense of gratitude that at least now I know that he's not suffering. I wouldn't choose that for him, you know? If I could have, and I tried for many years, to work with him to help him. There was only so much I could do, and I know I'm not beating myself up about it.

It's not about that guilt or shame, but it's that he was suffering so deeply that at least now I know he's not suffering and I don't feel like he's in a worse place. I don't think he went to hell. , I feel like nail the way that my spiritual beliefs truly are, even though the Catholic voice comes up anyway, right?

My beliefs really are that nail. His soul is set free and hopefully, he feels less pain and less suffering, and I believe that he will. I feel like the human body and the human mind is the suffering thing. Once the soul is set free. I don't think that we would feel that, but I don't, I mean, I don't know.

This is why I end up having these conversations. Yeah. 

Bex: I'm sorry to hear that for you because as you know, it is, it's this, there's such duality in experiencing this loss, right? Like, so as a society, we already struggle so deeply with like the idea of mortality, right?

But then you add this extra layer to this confusing loss. I agree with you. I think that our beliefs are very similar in this, in that why is it okay in one, respect, but not in another? And it's because people just don't understand it until you've really been there and experienced it, you don't get it.

You don't get how someone could be so mentally tortured that there really is. The sense of loss, the hopelessness, and these other things that are just as paralyzing and destructive to the physical body, to the mind, and all of these things. And, in a lot of ways, the real problem comes from the way we handle this because if it ever were even an option to put this on the table for a gently assisted situation, the way that we get there can't be the way we're doing it now.

It's not working. It's not working that people are afraid to even express how they feel because what happens? They're immediately treated inhumanely. Let's take somebody who's suffering and mentally tortured and let's take everything they own off of them that they showed up with, and lock them in a room that has literally nothing on it because it could be of harm.

And let you sit there alone with only those tortured thoughts in your head. and then stick you in a place with other people who are having the same torture. I can't even think of another word for it. It is torture and the idea that there's even something different between saying, I don't know that I can live anymore and actively wanting to escape from this world.

And if more people could say out loud, I don't think I wanna live anymore and have someone meet them with, with real, genuine authenticity and curiosity of why is that? What does that even mean to you? 

When I work with people now, if anyone ever says anything like this, because the work that I do now is I'm a certified provider of compassionate bereavement care, which is a mindfulness-based approach to grief support focused on traumatic loss, so suicide, homicide, accidental death, sudden unexpected, profound losses.

And here's where there's the caveat. Traumatic death can be any kind of death to anyone. Your 90-year-old grandmother passing, depending on the relationship that you had with her, can be traumatic for you. So that's important to know and to understand because we don't recognize that for each other either.

But in this work that I do with people, it's so important to remember those pieces. You know that everybody's story is different and how we need to meet them is how they need to. And so for a mother who's lost their child, especially to suicide, as we've already sort of touched on the possibility for them to say, I don't know if I can live anymore.

If they say that in the wrong crowd, what happens to them? The statistics that a mother who loses a child is given an average of four prescriptions within the first 24 hours from a medical professional before they ever even know how they're gonna handle the situation. They're given anti-anxiety, medicines sleeping pills, antidepressants, and all these others. To just try to take that away from them, and that's not fair either. The key is to even get to that place or maybe getting to that place actually helps us revamp the system of how you actually treat people that are struggling and that are suffering, and that is the one thing that 

I am honored that in a letter that my sister left me, you know, she made sure to say to me, that there was nothing I could have done and that it wasn't my fault, and that if anything, how I held space for her in the last two weeks of her life were probably the only time that she really felt seen in her life because I wasn't trying to make her feel better.

I wasn't trying to tell her that she had everything to live for, that she was being silly, you know, that, oh, you know, just go talk to somebody and everything will be. I was just holding space for her and I'm forever honored that I was the one that was able to do that for her. And if we could start doing that for people, what a different world this would be, right?

It's why I'm avidly always studying. I'm always learning new tricks, and new tools to bring into the work that I do with people because I don't think what's happening now is the right answer. Do I wanna see change? Yes. That’s why I'm doing the work that I'm doing because the way we look at what death is needs to change.

Jill: It really does need to change. And you're right that unfortunately, the way that we handle people having suicidal ideations, I feel like you're right that it leads to more mental anguish. It's not, yeah, actually helping them feel any better because, I mean, I don't know, there's probably some people that haven't ever had any thoughts of suicide, but I'd say probably most people at some point in our lives, something has happened to us where the thought of suicide seemed better than living the life the way that it was forever. 

I know when I had had thoughts, I was younger, I was a teenager, and I'm glad that I was able to move through that. But the way that people around me would've handled it, I don't think I told anybody.

I think partially, I wasn't going to say something and it wasn't because I was afraid people were gonna stop me. I just was afraid of the reaction. I did end up getting some help, but it was really because I basically had a mental breakdown. But I didn't even say then like, oh, I'm considering committing suicide.

It was more that it was like, she needs some help. And thankfully I found people that were able to, they were able to give me that glimpse of, life doesn't have to be like this forever. And once I saw that little bit, the hope… 

Bex: Exactly the hope, the little glimmer of it, yeah. 

Jill: it really just set me on this path to always be seeking and searching and learning and trying to understand. At that time though, I was so hopeless and I thought I'm only, I don't know. I was like 15 or 16 and I thought, I can't live the rest of my life like this. This is terrible. I don't wanna feel like this. And at the time, I don't think I really even necessarily, you don't always understand exactly, but you just realize that you don't wanna live like this forever.

Bex: So then what's your other option? Well, right, what are the options? What do I need to do from here? 

And something that you were saying earlier, and now it's, it's here again, it's the whole point is the empowerment. when we are when we're trying to answer to something outside of us, we're being disempowered.

And so when we can find our own power in, in the situation, that's where the real growth can happen. You know? So you had that, you came to a precipice where it was like, okay, either I get to take control here and decide that I can't live like this anymore, and what are my options? Well, this one doesn't really feel so.

So I guess it's gonna have to be this one, you know? And, so you took your power back from what was over you. And I think the same applies to people that do get to this very, very far edge of suicidal, like true suicidal, because yes. Are there moments in time that we're all like, Ugh, I just don't know if I can live like this anymore?

Especially in the last three years, I don't think we have time to even start to open that can of worms, but two years ago, two and a half years ago, I was out here fighting a lot of the things that were going on, knowing that in a couple of years, we're gonna really have a surge of drug addiction, alcoholism, suicide.

The whole point is yes, people can't truly heal when they can't be truly authentic. And the way that we currently treat people that are having stress, anxiety, and depression, we can use all these labels, but the key is that people are trying to fit into a box that's not theirs. People are trying to live in a world that does not feel authentic.

Because look at the world that we're living in right now. Where are the priorities? Where are the values? Where are all of these things, right? So yes, something has to change so that people can. Authentic because that's the only way that you can actually do the work that it takes to get out of true mental suffering and torture.

You have to be able to be honest. And so like if somebody says to me “I just don't know if I can keep going on”, well what does that even mean to you? Does that mean I just can't run out and champion that this world is super great to live in right now? That's different than like, I really am like ready to get outta here.

33:05 That's why one of the major tools that I use in the work that I do with people, cuz it started as traumatic grief support, but it evolved because at the end of the day, like really all of these things that we're discussing, they're rooted in. Of some sort, loss of sense of safety, security, a loss of a sense of purpose, an identity, a relationship, a dream.

Everything is rooted in loss. I took this training and I adapted it and really say that kind of what I do with people now is empowerment work. I want people to see themselves and to own who they really are, their unique thing that they bring to the world so that they can love themselves and honor themselves.

Because when we start to do that more and more, then we can see, oh,  that's why this other person is the way that they are because they're just doing their unique thing in the world, and we can just honor them, and meet them with love and compassion instead of, you know, what we're doing now. And so I use astrology.

It was a technique that the eastern medicine practitioner that I saw, that I worked with for my, you know, trauma recovery through this process of losing my sister. And just in the first hour I sat with this stranger, I understood myself better than I had in 36. And it was suddenly clear to me like so much.

And the more and more I've learned, it's like, oh, that's why when I was 14, things were like, they were, you know, they were meant to be breaking me down in ways so that I could move through it and come out on the other side with a new outlook on this thing or, or whatever the case may be. And so I use that in my work to help people to see.

Where their gifts lie, where the challenges may lie. I walk with them through the timing of, you know, how the planets are now still moving with them and interacting with them so that when they're going through those tough times, we can say, yeah, you are, and so let's honor that. And then let's also empower you to what tools might be most effective to get you through this space.

I can use it from a holistic health standpoint because of my nursing background and astrology root, the medical realm. Up until 200 years ago, in order to be a physician, you had to be a proficient medical astrologer. And so within this blueprint, within this map, it also gives me clues of what treatment modalities might be most helpful for you to walk.

Your healing journey, whether that's physical or more importantly to me, your mental, because the mind creates the physical. This could mean is talk therapy the thing for you? Because everyone, that's everyone's answer for everything, right? Oh, just go talk to somebody. Oh, just go talk. You'll feel better if you just go talk to somebody.

Well, no. For some people, that's more traumatizing. Some people need to never talk about it again, and they, and the more you poke them to talk about it could be creating bigger ripples, you know? So there are other healing modalities, and the one I'm currently working on is I'm a full-time homeopathy student.

My goal is to use it in these cases for anything, but especially for people that have struggled. Whatever they wanna label their conditions. Anxiety, depression, trauma, never fitting into the world, but like how can we help you to break out of that piece? 

Jill: That's amazing work that you do. I really see such a need for all of that.

36:26 Do you work with people online? Like how could I do somebody? Okay, so if somebody is listening and they wanted to contact you, what would be the best way for them to reach out to?

Bex: So they can look on my website. So it's helperB.com as in Becks, just the letter.com, and they can see kind of a, a little more of my story.

They can see all of the different services that I offer. And yes, I do remote work. Online I am limiting the kind of work that I do with people right now simply because I'm a full-time student. There is a place on there where they can book a consultation call because I make it a priority that I talk to any potential client beforehand cuz I really want them to understand what the work is that I do because, As we've already established, my views around a lot of things are very different from the norm, and I'm not a therapist, and I'm not a counselor because I'm a nurse.

You know, I don't have those credentials, so I'm not doing counseling or therapy, so I need to make sure that people really, truly understand that part too. I'm simply holding space for you to walk through your journey and empower you to take, you know, your healing in your own hands so they can book a consultation call where I can go over with them what their goal is.

And to see if it's something that I have the space to meet them because I don't wanna waste their time and energy because that's a lot, you know, by the time you get to the point where you really reach out for people for help, you're usually like, you're ready. And so I don't want to get involved if it's not a good fit, so they can book a consultation call there.

And we set up a 15-minute chat to just make sure that we're in alignment and that the work that they're looking to walk through is something I think I can help them with. And if not, I have a lot of referrals and I have a lot of access. As I said, I have, if they're open to it, I have a map that'll tell me like, eh, yeah, you could come and talk to me, but you might actually wanna go and like have some body work done.

You know, that might actually release some of your emotions. Repression better. So yeah, that's how they can find me. 

Jill: Yeah, I'll put a link in the show notes as well to the website so that this way Great. People can find you. And is there any last thing you wanna leave the listeners with? 

Bex: Just be kind.

Be kind. It's an interesting world out there and all we need is a little kindness and a little compassion, and the hurt people hurt people. So keeping that in mind as you meet the world, especially in this time of year, this time of year, can be quite difficult for people. We're chatting over the holidays in case this comes out after that.

That's what I'm meaning is that the holidays can be, in the winter, you know, the winter is the hardest time, and it's because we live in a, in a, in an era where we're fighting against the natural cycles of. We're meant to be pulling in and retreating and taking it easy. And it seems in our current place in society, we try to push it even harder in the wintertime, and that's why people can really, really have tough times.

So just be kind to each other. So thank you so much, Jill, for having me.