Pet Loss Grief with a Pet Death Doula Jessica LeBeau-Richman

Host Jill McClennen, a death doula and funeral celebrant, talks with Jessica LeBeau-Richman, a South Jersey pet death doula, about the often overlooked grief of losing an animal and how people can stay connected through ritual, keepsakes, and conscious goodbyes. 

Jessica shares how her rescue cat Sammy led her from years of nonprofit social services into end-of-life doula work for pets, and how she supports families with anticipatory grief, quality-of-life decisions, vet-visit advocacy, and after-death choices like burial or cremation. 

They discuss the lack of cultural support for pet grief, including shame and limited workplace compassion, and both describe in-home euthanasia as a beautiful experience. 

The conversation highlights how honoring pet loss can support healing, legacy, and more present, intentional living.

01:24 Jessica’s Pet Doula Path

03:11 Sammy’s Story Begins

04:55 Shelter Work to Doula Work

07:13 Why Pet Grief Hits Hard

07:50 In Home Goodbye Rituals

09:52 Keepsakes and Ongoing Bonds

11:55 Older Pets and Second Chances

13:49 Euthanasia Versus Human Endings

15:31 When Is It Time

16:26 Sammy’s Final Day

21:30 Support During Loss

22:46 Becoming a Pet Doula

23:12 Pet vs Human Care

23:45 Quality of Life Assessment

24:29 Pet Memorialization Options

25:53 Pet Doula Training

26:56 Building the Business

29:19 Pet Burial Options

29:56 Backyard Pet Burials

30:54 Personal Burial Stories

32:33 Honoring Animal Remains

34:55 Appreciating Life Through Death

35:49 Tactile Moments with Pets

37:46 Connect with Jessica

38:37 End of Life Planning

Website: https://jessicaendoflifepetdoula.carrd.co/

Instagram: @jessica.petlossdoula

Transcript

Jessica: [00:00:00] Even after the loss of a pet, you can still have a strong relationship just like you would with a human who you loved and cared about and who's no longer with you. You can still stay connected. 

Jill: Welcome back to Seeing Death. Clearly. I'm your host, Jill McClennen, a death doula and funeral celebrant. Here on my show, I have conversations that explore death dying.

Grief and life itself. In this episode, I'm joined by Jessica Lebo Richmond, a pet death doula from South Jersey, to talk about the often overlooked grief that comes with losing a beloved animal. Jessica shares how her rescue cat Sammy, led her into this work and why the bond we have with our animals deserves the same care and acknowledgement as any other loss.

We talk about the lack of cultural support for pet grief, the role of rituals and keepsakes, and what it really looks like to say goodbye. We also share our own experiences with in-home euthanasia. Jessica explains how pet doulas support [00:01:00] families through anticipatory grief. Decision making and after death choices.

Thank you for joining us for this conversation. 

Jessica: Welcome, Jessica, to the podcast. Thank you for not only coming on as a guest, but you told me you are a 

Jill: listener from the beginning, which I so appreciate. Thank you for coming on today and for listening. 

Jessica: Yeah, you're welcome. I'm so happy to be here. Welcome.

Thank 

Jill: you so much for having me. You're very welcome. Why don't you start us off, tell us a little bit about 

Jessica: who you are. My name is Jessica Lebo Richmond. I'm 41 years old and I am originally from Southern New Jersey. I'm currently living in Collingswood right outside of Philadelphia. I'm married. My husband and I are happily child.

Free. I'm married to my high school sweetheart, and we have three amazing cats and one angel cat who I'm here to talk about today. 

Jill: I'm in Audubon, also right outside of Philly. My husband and I, we always joke that we're East Philly. There's no such thing as East Philly, that we're East Philly because we're literally on the [00:02:00] other side of the bridge, and I had to work in Philly this week.

It took me 10 minutes to get into Philly. There's people that technically live in Philly and they're like, yeah, it takes me like 45 minutes. To get like into the city and I'm like, Uhhuh, that's why I'm in Jersey. 'cause it's better over here. And so the work that you do, and I know you work with animals now, how did you end up in that space?

Because I know a lot of us, we start off like way off in left field and then make our way to work like this. This isn't typically work that most of us grow up thinking, I wanna work around death and dying and grief with. Anything, whether it's animals or people. 

Jessica: Yeah, I've always been an animal lover. I've had pets all my life.

I grew up with three dogs, hamsters, two Guinea pigs. I even when my hamsters passed, and I've heard that this is common for pet people, is that I participated and I even ran my own little [00:03:00] like backyard funeral for. At least two of my hamsters, maybe more, and I had like neighborhood kids come to the service and say a few words and had like cupcakes to celebrate them.

Animals have been a part of my life my entire life when I was in 2006. A cat found my husband. He was living in West Philly at the time. There were all these neighborhood cats that his next door neighbor would feed, but they were mostly feral. They didn't really want much to do with people, but there was this one who showed up who was super friendly and would try to come into his house.

He would try to get into his car. He would try to go with him to the trolley stop. It was like this cat just wouldn't leave him alone. So that cat became my cat. That cat, his name was Sammy, and he was a big part of my life, just weaved into my every day at the time. In 2006, I was just getting ready to graduate college and I worked in nonprofits for [00:04:00] over 15 years.

Focusing on social services, case management, program coordination, working with all different types of people from birth all the way up through old age. I started my career in Trenton and Camden during the pandemic for all these years. For 14 years. It was just me, my husband, Matt, and our cat Sammy, for 14 years.

We had such a great life together, it was fabulous. During the pandemic, I was like, you know what? Maybe it's time for Sammy to have a friend, right? Like I had a little bit extra free time, so I was like, you know what? What? Let's consider getting a cat. So we got a kitten. We didn't know how it was gonna go at first, but it ended up being fabulous.

Sammy really took to him. He loved Sammy as well, and I felt really inspired. To start volunteering at a shelter. 'cause again, I had a little bit of free time. I [00:05:00] felt very inspired by the woman who fostered him. She now has her own rescue called Tiny Life Rescue, and it's here in South Jersey and the Philly area.

I started volunteering at a shelter in Vorhees where my family adopted one of my dogs. Growing up, I became a regular volunteer in the cat room. I would sometimes work at the welcome table. I really didn't have much cat experience other than. Sammy, so I learned about all different types of personalities.

Cats that were super friendly, snuggle bugs, little teeny tiny kittens. I learned about the cats that are super shy and scared cats that are also maybe borderline feral and everybody in between. Since then, I am now, uh. Volunteer trainer for their safe cat handling classes. So I teach new volunteers how to volunteer in the cat room there, and I do cat sitting [00:06:00] as well.

So I do lots of things relating to cats, but I love all and, and I was trying to decide what I wanted to do next with. Animals and people, and I love the people part of volunteering at a shelter just as much as I do the cat part and the animal part, and something I noticed was so many people come into the shelter looking to adopt after having experienced pet pet loss.

So as a volunteer holding space for grief while trying to show somebody their potential. New best friend is really important. So I figured, you know what? Let me combine my training as a social worker, get some additional training, and become an end of life pet doula, because I really wanted to continue to honor that bond that Sammy and I had, particularly at the end of his life.[00:07:00] 

And I want people to, if they're able to have as positive an an experience around. Pet death as they possibly can. So that's how I got to this work. 

Jill: It is interesting how many people I talk to that they grieve more when their pet dies than when a family member. We're very connected to our animals and like a lot of things in our country, we don't acknowledge that connection and that grief and that loss.

Because there's also a lot of shame that people care. Mm-hmm. When they'll tell me how they're still grieving over their pet that died, and they're embarrassed to say it. Nobody really seems to care. You don't get time off of work when your dog dies. Yeah. I remember actually, my cat was 19 and we got her when she was seven, so we had her for many years.

[00:08:00] And my husband kept saying, it's maybe time. And I was like, I can't, I just, I can't let her go yet. And then I woke up one morning and I was getting ready to go to Cathedral Kitchen and there was blood on the pillow that she'd been sleeping in. So she was bleeding from her mouth for some reason. And I said, okay.

It's time and like just thinking about it now, it makes me wanna cry. And I was like, all right, it is time to do it. And so I went to work because I couldn't call out. Yeah. And my husband scheduled a vet to come in and do it at our house. I took my lunch break, I came home, I held her on my lap, they gave her the injections.

Gave us like this cute little thing where they put her P in the wet plaster and saved a little paw print. My husband dug a hole in the backyard, filled it with flowers, lined it all with flowers. I wrapped her up in a blanket. I put her in the hole. I covered her in dirt, and I went back to work because I can't say I'm calling out of work [00:09:00] because my cat died.

Exactly. You just can't do it, thankfully, because. I wasn't doing this work yet. I wasn't a death doula yet, but my husband knowing me and knowing how I am so well, we created such a ritual out of the experience that I was able to do it and continue on with my day. 

Jessica: Yeah. 

Jill: But I also did say I wanted to dig her up at some point so I could get her skull, because again, like that, 

Jessica: there's like curiosity.

Jill: And I love for whether she's alive or whether she's dead. I still love her. I still miss her. My kids even still talk about her. I don't know how they remember her 'cause they were little and I have not done it. But there's still part of me sometimes that I'm like, I wouldn't mind having her skull around still pepper with me.

Still, it is a thing. 

Jessica: Other than just the paw print for 

Jill: us, 

Jessica: we had the procedure, the euthanasia performed at our house as well. And the vet that we used, or who was [00:10:00] with us, she was wonderful. She was from a really great hospice pet organization called Lap of Love, and she shaved off like just a little bit of his fur on his tail that had like multiple colors.

So we have a little plastic thing with his fur in it. But yeah, we also do have our. Sammy Paul pr, but to have things that remind you of your pet, whether it's a skull, whether it's anything relating to them. Some people hang onto their beds, their leashes, toys. There's so many ways to still stay connected with your pet even after death.

Jill: My husband actually did get one of those single line drawings made for me of pepper. 

Jessica: I think however, people need to. Connect with their animals and process their grief, process their loss, and just feel connected. It's amazing that we're able to do that. And even after the loss of a pet, you [00:11:00] can still have a strong relationship just like you would with a human who you loved and cared about and who's no longer with you.

You can still stay. Connected and I feel like this work is like Sammy is guiding me to this work and he is guiding me to be with people and help people feel seen, heard, and understood during this really difficult time in their lives that often it's not really talked about or you don't really have people you can share your feelings with.

There's a lot of people when you tell them that your pet has died, they say something like, you could just go get another one. Almost with this feeling that your pet didn't matter. They didn't have a personality or they weren't a big part of your life. And for some people, their pets are their best friends.

Most intimate moments can sometimes be with their pets. 

Jill: And that's actually something too. I know somebody locally to me that she. [00:12:00] Takes in old dogs because people oftentimes, when they do go to adopt, they don't wanna take the older dogs that for whatever reason, like we got our cat because the woman was older and she just couldn't take care of her anymore.

And so we got her on Craigslist, but she was already seven at that point. 

Jessica: Yeah. 

Jill: But imagine if a cat or a dog is 12 years old, 13 years old. They're dying soon. 

Jessica: Yeah. 

Jill: So I do know somebody that specifically takes in the older dogs knowing that the dog is gonna die when Yeah, they are caring for them. It's probably gonna be soon.

Um, yeah. But I thought that was so beautiful because. There is definitely something about older pets. Like they're chill, right? Yeah. They don't have the same energy as a puppy. Yeah. But also I'm like, oh, like it, it could be any day. Now 

Jessica: we build connections with animals and how beautiful is that to have those connections and I feel like pets.

Connect people to each other. But it's interesting that you, you [00:13:00] mentioned that older people who need to give up their pets because they're either at the end of life or maybe they are going into assisted living and they can't take their animals with them. We see that a lot at the animal shelter. Each time I go to volunteer, there's at least one cat that is there for that reason.

What's also really amazing though. Is that there are people like your friend who seeks out older animals to give them a home. There's even people who they wanna know who's been here the longest, so the hardest to adopt animals. There are people who are seeking them out as well, like human angels here on earth, just looking to do something good and give an animal a wonderful rest of their life.

Jill: Yeah, I know. And one of the things that I find. Interesting in a lot of ways too is how both of us have mentioned already, like having a pet that is ill at the end of life and [00:14:00] we call somebody in to euthanize them to end their suffering, but yet we really are not good about that with our humans. It's something that I find so interesting because when I did that for Pepper.

I know that keeping her around as long as I did was partially selfish. It was selfish on my part. I do realize that she was ill. She was not. She was not seeming to suffer a lot, but she was definitely not in her best. So when I finally did get to that point, that was because I loved her so much. Yeah. That I was like, alright, whatever's happening.

I can't continue to keep you here for my own selfish reasons, because I can't bear. The thought of you not being here anymore. But yet when we have that conversation around our people, it becomes this whole really challenging thing. And I sometimes wonder [00:15:00] why there's the difference. But also I think for me, when I think about why, I think it's partially because our relationship with our pets most of the time is just based on so much love and presence.

There's not that sense of regret and shame and guilt and all this other stuff that is connected in a lot of cases with our human relationships. Yeah. So I don't know. I just find that really interesting. 

Jessica: Yeah, and I think even that phrase, like when it's time, I think it's such a difficult decision to make.

It's. The hardest decision that any pet lover, any pet guardian, any pet parent, whatever you wanna call us, right, will face. My theory is whether you do it on the earlier side or you do it on the later side. Whether for selfish reasons or not, or whatever. I think just [00:16:00] understanding that it is such a difficult decision and to give people grace around that anticipatory grief around trying to figure out when it's time and you notice your pet declining and you're like, Ugh, I feel it's like it's coming.

There's nothing I can do to avoid this. It's just like a train coming down a track and you can't stop it. Yeah. And trying to decide when it's time. I know for us, Sammy was, we think close to 17 years old when he passed. He was in pretty good health most of his life. He had a heart murmur. I think towards the end he was diagnosed with kidney disease.

He then was diagnosed with high blood pressure. Then I brought him in one day for just a six month checkup and the vet told me that he had lost a lot of weight and I was like, wait, like what? I didn't even notice. She was like, yeah, he's [00:17:00] lost a lot of weight. Bring him back in two weeks for a weight check.

She was saying that it could be something with maybe we need to get an ultrasound of the stomach and so like with humans and like thinking about interventions and what have you. I'm thinking like, okay, he's an old cat. I could pursue other choices and options and medical treatment, but at what cost? Not just financially but also like for his quality of life.

So when they told us about the ultrasound and they're like, well, we would have to put him under, and I'm like calling all these different vet offices to get more information. 'cause I was getting like mixed information. So I'm like going crazy. And finally my husband and I just started talking about it and we're like, you know what?

Yeah, he's losing weight, but he's happy and he's fine, and he is doing all of his normal activities. Let's just. Let him be. And so really what the big thing that triggered thinking about euthanasia [00:18:00] was he, his balance got really bad. He was having a hard time even standing up in the litter box and he had a hard time jumping up onto our bed, which was pretty low to the ground.

I could just see how uncomfortable he was and even just trying to sit down, like watching his butt try to get onto the floor, like he just looked so uncomfortable and. He was eating a lot. That's another thing too. A lot of people say, okay, when they stop eating and drinking, then I know it's time, but like our cat was eating a ton, but he wasn't absorbing any of the nutrients.

So when we noticed this, we took him to the vet and the vet was like, he could have some, because of the balance, it could be a neurological issue. We could do further testing this, that, and the other, and we're like, you know what? I think we're just gonna take him home. And that's what we did, and it was almost like a movie playing out.

We didn't realize when we called. Lap of love. Um, the pet hospice organization, like [00:19:00] I felt like it was getting close to the end, but I wasn't really sure. And the people also have to be on the same page as well, right? He was my cat, but he was also my husband's cat too, right? Mm-hmm. So to together make a decision is also really challenging.

So we had the hospice vet come out and she examined him and. 

Jill: She gave us some 

Jessica: information and talked about quality of life and all that kind of stuff, and she said if you wanted to. Euthanize him today. I think he's ready. No, we were both like, but it almost gave us that permission to say, you know what, yeah, maybe you're right.

And like we talked about what our vision was for like the perfect last day with him and I'm like, it's a sunny day and we're sitting in the sun room and like we're giving him some tuna, which we usually don't give him. And we're just like. Snuggling with him and petting him and like maybe we're having a pizza just to comfort ourselves.

And so the hospice vet left [00:20:00] and we talked about it, and we called to have her come back that same night. She explained to us what we could expect during the dying process to give us the option of do we wanna be present, do we not? We were both present. Our other two cats. They are terrified of other people, but we wanted to give our other two cats the opportunity to say goodbye to their friend too.

After the procedure, after he passed, the vet went into her car, she waited for a little bit, and our other two cats came down and they both sniffed him. One even jumped over him, the one that was like his best buddy who like messed with him a little bit. They said their goodbyes, and then she came back in and it was so sweet.

She had a whisk, a wicker basket with a blanket, and she wrapped them up real nicely, and it was in February of 2023, so it was like a warm day. It started off and then it got really windy and cold later in the day. Just the whole experience of having her take [00:21:00] him away wrapped up really warmly in a blanket, in a wicker basket.

It was the most beautiful. Awful experience to have. 

Jill: Yeah, the beautiful, awful is an interesting way of putting it and it's so true. Yeah. Because it can be beautiful and also be one of the worst experiences of our life. Both things can be true at the same time, whether it's a pet or whether it's a human.

Jessica: Oh yeah. 

Jill: I love that term actually. 

Jessica: Beautiful and awful. At the same time, and I think about how fortunate I was during that experience that my parents obviously are very supportive of my love of pets. So to have the support from them before the procedure, after the procedure was just wonderful, being able to text and talk to them.

And then we have two really good friends who stopped by, one, stopped by with a pizza and said her goodbyes, and then [00:22:00] our other friend. Who runs Tiny Life Rescue. I was really worried about how my other cats were gonna react. Though there's this plugin thing called Feel Away, which is supposed to have like pheromones in it to like calm cats.

I don't know if it actually works, but I was like, maybe you could bring some more. And even at the time I was working part-time for a nonprofit and my boss at the time, she was not an animal person, but she understood my love of animals and so she did allow me to take some time off. I didn't take off too much time.

'cause I felt, at least for me, being busy and like. Being able to distract myself felt good and healthy for me, but my employer at least shows some compassion and give me some time. Was really a wonderful thing. I recognize how lucky I was and becoming an end of life pet doula. I want to help provide that support to other people.

Jill: When I was first [00:23:00] starting my business, a friend of mine. In the midst of me finishing my training, just starting my business, her dog. Had to be euthanized and she was really going through it and she was like, do you think you could help me? And I was like, I guess, I don't know, is it that different when it's a bet versus a person?

But what is something that is needed for sure, but it is a little different than it is a human. So what does that look like for you as a pet end of life doula. I think with me, I do end of life care plans where I talk to a human and I find out what's important to them. But you can't do that with pets.

Yeah. You can't sit down with a pet and be like, so tell me PET is enough for you. So how do you do this work? 

Jessica: A big part of it. Is patient advocacy and pet parent advocacy as well during vet visits. So being with them during vet visits and asking questions, taking notes. Also helping pet [00:24:00] parents assess what their pet's quality of life is.

So that's a big part of it as well, and providing that emotional support, especially around anticipatory grief. I am a brand new end of life pet doula. I just finished my program with the University of New England in October, so I'm just starting off. So right now it's a lot of education, right? It's.

Letting people know that this is something that exists. Part of what we can do as well is help people think about how do they wanna memorialize their pets? Or even thinking about, do you prefer to bury your pet or do you prefer to cremate to talk about those different options? I think the one big difference, at least around rituals surrounding pet death in our culture.

Is that there are no scripted rituals, right? I think depending on people's religion and beliefs, there's certain things like, okay, first you do this, [00:25:00] then you do this. I think nowadays people are veering off from what they know from their religion or their regular rituals, but I think for pets, there's so much freedom and flexibility in how you want to memorialize, right?

Because there are no scripts, there are no rules. Some people even decide. I'm gonna have my cat cremated. I don't want their ashes back. Like other pets, you have the choice of do you want your pet cremated solo, or do you want them cremated with other pets? But yeah, I think right now my role is really about providing gut education about everything in regards to pet end of life.

Jill: It's like a regular death doula in some ways where I feel like I spend so much time. Just educating people on the fact that we exist and that we're around. And so your training, was it specifically for Pet Death dollars? 

Jessica: Yeah. Oh, 

Jill: okay. 'cause [00:26:00] I didn't know there was any specific ones. 

Jessica: Yes, my instructor, she is both a person end of life doula as well as a pet end of life doula.

So she does both. And it's a newer program. I think it's been around just a few years, but this is with the University of New England. There's another one that's been around a little bit longer with the University of Vermont. It was a great program. It was six weeks long. I learned a lot. It was asynchronous and go at your own pace.

But I feel like my training as a social worker is really what's coming most in handy. But the education piece of all the pet related details was really helpful. And just understanding the human animal bond. They even now have, I've been looking into it a little bit. They have a, you can become a veterinary social worker, which I think is really cool.

Jill: That is super cool. 

Jessica: Yeah. 

Jill: I have no idea. Yeah. 

Jessica: So yeah, right now. I feel like opportunities to [00:27:00] talk about end of life pet doulas is what I'm doing right now. My hope is to connect with people at veterinary offices to let them know I've recently connected with a physical therapist for animals, which I think is so cool.

I was like, I didn't even know that existed. Yeah, so it's like really just. Spreading the word about what is this. So it's very similar, I'm sure to what your experience was like, especially at the beginning of your career, your work as a end of life doula. 

Jill: Yeah. It's still a. Seattle to get people to understand, and that's where actually right now I'm in a coaching program because trying to figure out what's going on.

But one of the things that I've been doing is playing with the wording of how I describe myself, because I have found, I've been doing this now for six years, which is crazy, and that over these six years. Just even saying the word death either [00:28:00] shuts people down or the people that are interested perk up, which is great, but they're not really the people that I need to convince that we need this work 'cause they're already on board.

It's finding those people in the middle. That can be a challenge. I'm sure it's gonna be a similar thing for you where if we want to do this and make a living off of it, which I think all of us should be able to make a living and support ourselves doing the work that we really care about, it's definitely gonna take educating first and then just educating more and more.

But it definitely happens, and I actually did connect with people a couple years ago, and I'm trying to remember exactly what. It was called, but you could become like a pet chaplain or something to see if I could find, I still have their information somewhere, but it was around end of life with [00:29:00] pets.

Mm-hmm. And now that I have my funeral celebrant training, I'm also gonna be networking more now with local funeral homes near us to try to do more funerals. There's part of me that sounded be interesting too, actually incorporating, helping people to celebrate their pet's life. Like a little mini funeral.

Jessica: There's not too many pet specific. Cemeteries near us. I think there's one in Hamilton near Trenton and Laurel Hill West. I think they have a section for animals. 

Jill: Do they really? 

Jessica: I 

Jill: think so. I'm actually interviewing them on my podcast, I think next week. So I'm gonna ask, I'm gonna be like, yeah, you have a pet section.

God, I can't imagine how expensive that is though. 'cause they are very expensive. They're, they've got prime real estate though. Like if I could be buried there in their green burial, I would, but it's 

Jessica: very expensive. 

Jill: Yeah. Yeah. It can get pricey. And I think that's. 

Jessica: That's also a reason why I think a lot of people end up choosing to bury their pets [00:30:00] in their backyard, at least I think in Camden County.

I don't think there's any real ordinances or zoning or things that you have to do to bury your pet in your backyard. I think the only thing that I usually recommend to people is making sure that they're buried deep enough, because if they're not the. Chemicals that are in their body from the final injection, from the euthanasia.

If another animal gets to it, then that's not good for the other animals. That's like the only thing though. 

Jill: It would be traumatizing to have your pet be dug up by an animal. 

Jessica: I know Chewy. If you go to Chewy's website, you can find pet caskets on Chewy's website. I think they even have fish caskets. Oh my gosh.

People love their pets. A, anything you could want for your pet, you can probably find on the internet, right? So if you want a casket for your fish or any other pet, you can go to chewy.com. I 

Jill: remember burying my hamster. I found like a box in the house. I was a [00:31:00] kid. I remember putting it in the box, and at that time, I cut the little blanket to wrap 'em in and did the whole thing.

And then I did also try to dig him up a year later and I couldn't find him. 

Jessica: Yeah. 

Jill: I knew where I buried him. I just couldn't actually find him, but I tried. 

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a lot of curiosity. I know growing up a couple of my hamsters we buried, and then my first dog that we had my, I remember my dad burying on the side of the house and.

Yeah, I do have some curiosity about what is left behind. Other people live there now, so that strange did show up with your shovel and find out. 

Jill: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's part of why I haven't actually tried to dig up Pepper partially because I'm afraid that I wouldn't get the right spot and then I would end up like damaging her.

I would rather just leave her. 

Jessica: Yeah. 

Jill: But we did actually have a cat, it was like a year later that had gotten hit by a car. It was a stray. And it got hit by a car and ended up in the alley behind our house. So my husband was like, you can't necessarily have [00:32:00] pepper, but you can have this cat. So I took a milk crate and I filled it with compost, and then I put the cat, and then I filled it with more compost.

And then like loosely buried that. Yeah. And put weights on top of it so nothing would dig it. Yeah, and it was interesting, yeah, a year or so later I did sift through and of course my kids were slightly horrified What is mom doing in the backyard? But now I do have a cat skull that is not peppers, and I have her bones, so when I reach tarot cards, I have some of her bones and 

Jessica: Oh, I love that.

Jill: That's where like I've had. People, and especially kids are super curious, so they'll be like, are these real? And I'm like, they are real. I promise I did not kill the cat. I would never do that. But if anything, this cat has a better life now in my home. Loved where I look at it and I take its bones with me and people talk about them and then they're like, can I touch 'em?

I'm like, of course you can go for it. Yeah. Then the poor cat had, when it was astray, living on the [00:33:00] streets. So I feel like the cat's well loved, but I, I really was part of me that kind of like the same thing where I was like, what is left? What does happen? There was a little fur, but for the most part.

Yeah, it was gone. It was nothing but bones. It really is fascinating how nature does that. 

Jessica: Yeah, it's amazing. Nature works, and what a great way to still have your stray kitties memory and be able to provide even like a good home for its bones. Yeah, 

Jill: very much. 

Jessica: I've never seen any cat skeleton parts, so I would be interested.

Jill: Oh, if 

Jessica: you ever, 

Jill: yeah. 

Jessica: Feel like sharing and showing, so 

Jill: for sure. Yeah. I also have a fox, okay. That I found dead on the side of the road that I went back and I got with the trash bag that I don't know if that's legal, so they'll get me in trouble for that one. I do have a fox skull nail. It's maybe morbid and creepy to some people, but I feel.

That it's partially my curiosity. I've just always been a curious person. [00:34:00] I feel like it helps to honor the life that was lived, and it really is a reminder that one day I am also going to be nothing but bones. I guess it depends on how I die and what happens to my body. I'm certainly not gonna go through like the old school Catholic.

Jessica: Definitely leaning towards green burial, maybe composting. 'cause now that's legal in 

Jill: New 

Jessica: Jersey. Yeah, so 

Jill: maybe we'll do that route. Hopefully I won't have to find out. Anytime soon. But I don't know for sure. Sometimes like I could actually look over there. I'm like, there's my cat pile of bones and actually I have a pelvis, which is really interesting looking.

So like I just, I don't know. When I look at those things, it doesn't make me sad or scared, but it does remind me that it's just part of the circle of life. Yeah. And I like to honor the dead as much as I honor the living. 

Jessica: Yeah. No, I think that's beautiful. Something that I feel like I've continuously learned [00:35:00] from your podcast is when we do talk about death and dying, we're able to, I think, appreciate our lives more.

The cats that I have now more too. Mm-hmm. And just like every moment, even when they're, sometimes I get on my nerves, and of course they do. They're amazing. I love them all dearly. But sometimes I do things. I get on my nerves when they're. Bothering me for like dinner too early. But 

Jill: yeah, 

Jessica: to just like really appreciate all the moments with my pets and to enjoy my life too.

This life that we have, it's precious and to try to live it as well as we can. That's the best we can do. 

Jill: It's true. It is our one life maybe, I don't know, but it's our one life that we can have right now that we'll ever actually really remember. Yeah, I like to live my life and try to appreciate it all.

And also like right now, I'm petting both the dogs and I'm like touching their soft ears. I'm a very tactile person. That's actually one of the things I miss the most about my cat was she had the [00:36:00] softest little spot right behind her ears that I would just like scratch with my finger. And I loved it so much and I miss it so much.

And so there is definitely something about being in this human body. The human body itself, it's not perfect. I got things that go wrong with it sometimes that it drives me crazy. Uh, but man, there is nothing like being able to touch something really soft and like the weight of the dogs on my lap and like their body heat and.

Yeah. Those are things that I think so many of us just take for granted in our everyday life or while we're doing it, while we're sitting here and we're like petting the animals. We're too busy thinking about all this stuff that we can't control anyway, or something we're mad about from the past, rather than being present and just being like, man, these guys, they're so soft and warm and snuggly, and I love it.

So much 

Jessica: petting your cats, your dogs. For me, it's like the sound of my cat's purring. It's like one of my favorite sounds in the world. And when they kiss [00:37:00] you, whether it's a cat and they've got their little sandpapery tongue, or it's a dog with their big, wide wet tongue, and some of them are drooly, it's just, yeah, to have those tactile experiences with them is just such a, it's a gift.

Yeah, 

Jill: it really is a gift and I wish that we could all appreciate the gift that life. In general is a little bit better than we do, but again, that's part of why I have this podcast. Yeah. 'cause lot of people want to just talk about this a lot. Like the more that we hear it, the more that we talk about it.

Hopefully there are people that listen and they do then stop later on in their day and appreciate something a little more than they would have if they would not have heard this conversation. So that's my goal for a lot of the stuff that I do. A lot of the work I do. Yeah. 

Jessica: Love it. 

Jill: We are coming up towards the end of our time, so do you have a website yet for your business?

Do you have social media? Where can people go to learn more about you and about your pet? Death Doula [00:38:00] services. 

Jessica: Yeah, so I have a website. It is Jessica of Life pet doula dot CR d.co co. I'm on Instagram as well. My Instagram handle is, it's newer so it's, doesn't have too much going on yet, but it will, it's Jessica, period, pet Death doula.

Jill: I'll put links in the show notes so people can easily just go into the show notes and look for them. But thank you so much. This was fun. Yeah, and it's always nice to talk to a listener, so thank you. I really genuinely appreciate that. 

Jessica: Yeah, thank you so much. 

Jill: If you've been listening to my podcast for a while.

And you hear me and my guests talk over and over about how important it is to create a plan for the end of life and to have the conversations with your loved ones about what's important to you, and you're thinking, okay, maybe it's time. Maybe I should actually sit down and figure this out instead of just hoping it all works out later.

I get it. These conversations can feel overwhelming or scary [00:39:00] or just like something you'll deal with another day, but you don't have to do it alone. If you want help creating an end of life care plan for yourself or for someone you love. Maybe it's your aging parents, a spouse, whoever it is in your life.

You can book a complimentary 30 minute call with me and we'll just talk. We'll get clear on what's going on for you and what the next right steps might be. There's no pressure. Just support the links in the show notes. Whenever you're ready, and if this episode made you think of someone, a sibling, a friend, or another caregiver, feel free to share it with them.

Sometimes these conversations are easier to start. When someone else opens the door first, thank you for being here. The fact that you're even willing to listen to this kind of conversation means a lot.