Andy Maier on Curiosity, Creativity, and the Force That Binds It All

🎬 What do Star Wars, oil painting, and storytelling have in common?
 
Turns out: everything. In this curiosity-fueled episode, filmmaker and multi-hyphenate creative Andy Maier (Soon Agency) joins host Matt Johnson to talk about building a life powered by relentless learning, visual storytelling, and the kind of curiosity that launches careers 🚀.

From working with Apple, SpaceX, and Microsoft to touring in his metal band Opponent and picking up oil painting during a creative pivot — Andy is the living embodiment of “just figure it out.” 💥🎨🧠
If you've ever felt like the underdog creative, this one’s for you. Andy drops storytelling gems faster than Yoda lifts an X-Wing.

🎸 Fun fact: Andy composed the metal version of the Font Awesome theme song in a single day. That’s some serious Jedi speed 🤘.

🎙️ What We Cover in This Episode
🤖 Why being curious is better than being talented
🎥 How oil painting made Andy a better compositor
🧱 The concept of “armature” and why your story collapses without one
🌱 Why telling the truth is the best brand strategy
🤝 The power of surrounding yourself with curious people
✨ Building "wells, not fences" in your creative career
⚔️ Star Wars, Iron Giant, and the real meaning of “The Force”

⏱️ Timestamps
 00:00 – Welcome to Podcast Awesome
 01:00 – Meet Andy Maier: Creative Jedi & Founder of Soon
 02:30 – Early creative career and figuring it out on the fly
 05:15 – The underestimated power of curiosity
 08:20 – From DIY music videos to working with Apple and SpaceX
 10:45 – Why storytelling is better than trends
 13:30 – Building a creative life around community and friendships
 16:00 – How oil painting made Andy better at... everything
 19:00 – The merch moment: painting turned t-shirt design
 22:00 – What’s real? How to build grounded storytelling
 26:30 – Invisible Ink, Brian McDonald, and story armature 101
 32:00 – Why Marvel’s Phase 4 struggles (and what X-Men got right)
 34:00 – Star Wars, Joseph Campbell, and unlocking “the Force”
 37:45 – Where to find Andy and his work
 38:30 – Bonus: The origin of the metal FA theme song 🤘

🔗 Links & Resources
 🔥 Andy’s work – https://www.soon.agency
 🎶 Andy’s band Opponent – https://www.solidstaterecords.com/opponent
 📖 Invisible Ink by Brian McDonald – https://shorturl.at/E9101
 🖖 Font Awesome’s Heavy Metal Icon Episode – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FlsrtKCI1Y
 🎧 More Podcast Awesome episodes – https://podcastawesome.com

 #PodcastAwesome #StorytellingMatters #CreativeJedi #VisualStorytelling #FilmmakerLife #MotionGraphicsArtist #DesignNerds #FontAwesome #CuriosityWins #InvisibleInk #CreativeProcess #OilPaintingForDesigners #BuildWellsNotFences #NerdCulture #MetalVibesOnly #StarWarsStorytelling #MakeSomethingAwesome

Stay up to date on all the Font Awesomeness!

Transcript

Introduction to Podcast Awesome

[00:00:00]

welcome to Podcast Awesome. Where we chat about icons, design, tech, business, and nerdery with members of the Fawn. Awesome team. 

Meet Andy Maier: The Creative Jedi

I'm Matt Johnson, your host, and today's guest is my longtime friend, filmmaker, 3D artist, painter, musician, dad, and all around Creative Jedi, the one and only Andy Mayer, founder of Soon, which stands for something out of nothing.

The Magic of Visual Storytelling

We dive deep into the magic of visual storytelling, what it means to build a creative life on curiosity and why sometimes the best career strategy is to become the person who just can't stop learning. We talk about oil painting and how it can make you a better compositor.

Why telling the truth is the ultimate brand move 

 And how Star Wars Iron Giant and the idea of the armature can unlock better storytelling for literally everything, uh, even your next TikTok ad. So trust me, Andy drops so many gems in this one. You're gonna wanna keep a sketchbook handy to take notes.

So without further ado, here's Andy Mayer.

Matt: So Andy Maier. I want to thank you for coming on podcast. Awesome. Today. 

Early Days and Career Beginnings

Matt: Andy and I have known each other for quite a while.

It's been golly man, I want to say, I want to say about 15 years. Yeah. You were, you were a young pup. Um, when we first met and we worked together, uh, on a, in a creative team at a large multi-campus megachurch in another life years ago. Um, and I saw you, Andy, like, um, in as like an eager creative guy, like one of those guys that if there's a problem, he's gonna find a solution, like [00:02:00] super pro attitude.

Like, I don't know how to do it, but I'm gonna figure it out. And I, I saw you over and over again, like jump into stuff. create solutions for what we were trying to do. It was just, it was amazing to watch, man, and, um, I've really appreciated all the work that you've done over the years and, and have been watching from afar like your, your career continue to, to bloom.

It's been really fun to watch, but man, we'll probably get into all that and how the stuff all overlaps. But, but first of all, um, can you give folks a little bit of a background on kind of where you got started in, in, in video and storytelling,

Andy: Yeah. 

Freelancing and Diverse Creative Pursuits

Andy: Well, nowadays I'm a full-time freelancer. Um, I am fortunate to be, you know, I think 80% of my work is, uh, filmmaking. 20% of of my work is, uh, 3D. Another 20% is, uh, design work. Another 20% is, you know, oil painting. Another 20% is making music. So that, I think that adds up to 200% or something. But, uh, yeah, I, I am, you know, just had a kickoff call this morning for a shoot in the Caribbean.

I was shot in, I think nine countries last year. Um, taking my band on the road, uh, full West Coast tours, full East Coast tours. So, like, needless to say. Right now, you know, life with a three-year-old, um, is just full blast. But like, that all started as a kid. Like my, my sisters were in theater and my mom was a elementary school teacher.

My dad's a mechanical engineer. Um, you know, I've seen my grandfather was in the space industry. Like he was building satellites and doing mathematics, like on paper, you know, like he, he left the space race and started a farm. And like when I saw a picture of my [00:04:00] dad on a tractor, my dad was like, oh, here's me on the tractor that my grandfather made.

And I was like, what? So like, I have this photo of my dad on a, on a tractor, but the tractor was made by my grandfather. And like, I think that there's just been something in my family of like, if you want something specific, like you're gonna need to like, personally make that, you know? My sister was a set designer. Um, my other sister is an actress. You know, these are all like, very specific like things. And so I think that that asked, that made me ask the question of like, well, who am I? Like what's my thing? You know? And so as the youngest kid, I kind of grew up around all this creativity and kind of didn't feel like I had the bug.

I just felt like. I'm the black sheep that can't do any of these amazing things.

what what that led to was really just keep a keeping asked that question of like, what do I have to bring to the table? You know? And I think in junior high there, my friend, uh, Jonathan, he started learning guitar and we wa we were hanging out playing, you know, we were got into paintball and skateboarding and like all this stuff.

And like, he watched an ac DC live DVD and I saw the, the song Thunderstruck they were playing. And that dude's got like two kick drums next to him, you know, thunder. And he is hitting the, the sticks. And I was like, I feel like I could hit. A thing with a stick. 

so drums became, drums unlocked, like a whole, like, oh, I could do this because I can physically hit something with a stick.

So I didn't go to college and just started working on movies and it was just like, it just, it's been self-taught, like all the way. But like, starting with that, that word of like, I'm not talented, but that's what actually is a gift of like. 

The Power of Curiosity and Hard Work

Andy: I'm going to figure out what it actually takes to do something that quote unquote talented people do.

So I don't have the talent, but I [00:06:00] can work harder than the talented person, you know? So that's, that's the thing.

Matt: I don't know, I think natural talent is misunderstood. Oh. Because there, there's so much overlap between like somebody willing. To work hard to hone a craft. I mean, you can't, you can't separate those two things. the famous jazz drummer, buddy Rich, like there's a story of him. He, he was around musicians all the time and his folks were like, show musicians. And like, as a little tiny guy, you know, probably as old as your son was always around the stage. And some people weren't paying attention and, somebody started playing the drums and they're like, Hey, what?

Hey, can you quiet down over there? And here's a little three-year-old buddy Rich shredding it up. You know, like, how, how in the world can he play like that young? That's, uh, that's pretty rare, man. I mean, there's just really not that many people that have that gene, that actually have that, that genius. It has a lot more to do with drive.

And, uh, interest and passion, you know? And

Andy: Yeah.

Matt: It's really cool to hear you reflect on this 'causeover the summer as I've had conversations with folks, I recently talked to Don Clark from, um, invisible Creature, and he and I go way back and kind of a similar vibe to the conversation, which is like, I just was really curious and I liked cool stuff and I like to create stuff.

And he tells a story over and over again about how he and Ryan are just constantly amazed and surprised at the opportunities that they have.

They say, but we, we just feel like jokers. We don't know what we're doing. We've had to figure it out as we go, and we've had to pivot a bunch of times as the industry changes and everything, but it's just sort of this scrappy attitude of I can figure it out. And I, I can't believe that I get to do what I get to do.

And I, I get sort of the same similar feeling from how you talk about it, you know, which is just, it's so fun to

Andy: Yeah, I, I mean, I mean, I, I don't wanna like do the name drop thing, but like nowadays, like in order to be taken seriously [00:08:00] by somebody, you have to say that, but like Apple, so I've done projects for Apple, done projects for SpaceX, I've done projects for Starbucks, I've done projects for Amazon, I've done projects for Microsoft.

And what's led to every single one of those things was some kind of curiosity thing that led to getting to being bad at something, followed by getting good at something, followed by mastering something, followed by getting asked to do the, their version of like what they want to be done with, what it is that you can do.

So like each one of those projects, you know, these are animation projects, film projects, documentaries. You know, uh, integrated motion graphics into, you know, device graphics to like camera testing. Like each one of those things is like an hour long conversation of like what led up to those projects. 

Building Relationships and Community

Andy: And relationships have a big deal, big to deal, big to do with that.

But the origin of it is curiosity. Somebody has to be the most curious about it. And then if you're the most curious about it, you tend to spend the most time understanding something, which means that you're probably the most capable person to do it. Um, you know, da Vinci would go to the morgue and take apart bodies to understand like, okay, but what are these muscle groups in this arm, this forearm?

Like, I'm having a hard time Dr. Like, he, he had the assumption, I'm not good. So I need to understand, you know.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Andy: So like digging deeper into like these master's lives of like, okay, well the life of a master of something is a student. You know, it's not somebody who says I know everything. It's someone who says, I still don't know [00:10:00] everything.

I still don't, I know a lot, but I don't know everything. What's that? What's the delta and, and what am I doing to overcome that? So to me, that's what it's all about. Like any of those opportunities you could trace back to like an intensely curious period of my life that led to doing a personal project, that led to being seen by someone that I wasn't trying to get it seen by who calls me into that room.

I don't, didn't have salespeople out, you know, trying to cast wide nets and doing all these self funnels that everybody will tell you. Like, I'm about creating like that pull like do something that you, that you care about personally and that creates the vortex that pulls people in from the outside. Like, don't go out and throw the nets.

Like, that's pushing people into your space. Like pull them into your space. Like I had a friend who just said to me the other day, like, you can either build fences or you can build wells to try to like, keep cows in a pasture. Like keeping people in your sales pipeline and all that stuff is literally about like fencing people in, like, you're, they're gonna see this now, they're gonna see this, now they're gonna see this, now they're gonna drink.

You know, but really smart, um, cattle ranchers, you know, this goes back a long time. They, they discovered like, it's hard to build a fence. It's really easy to like build one well where the cows like want to drink. So like, if you're intensely curious about something and you're mastering something and you are like pursuing, like becoming a master at this thing, like that's what's gonna pull the cows in to be like, oh, well obviously there's someone skilled doing this.

And that's, that has been every single one of those high level opportunities, um, that I've, that I've experienced.

Matt: I think that energy too, it also really helps to, there's no way we can avoid like some cliche, uh, [00:12:00] buzzwords or whatever, but, it creates, um, that curiosity and that energy creates sort of like a brand stickiness, so if you're creating something, you're creating a persona orwhat your company is about, that energy of curiosity and constant learning and trying to draw people in with that curiosity. People like to feel like they're a part of that. And, it helps to build a, a community around it, at F Austin,we're a remote company and then we fly in twice a year we call our biannual snuggles. We don't, we don't call them sinks.

It says a little bit about the, the humor of our, of our company. But, the primary reason for those is to really hang out and have more personal connection. 'cause we haven't seen somebody for six months, you know, so a lot of it's like, hang out. We do a little bit of work, but, um, but while we're at those, a really high priority, of the culture is built into kind of how we define the company and what we're about is like sharing your nerd, like share your nerd.

And it doesn't even have to be work related. It's like, Hey, what are you into right now? And one, once you tap into what really drives somebody or what they're curious about, or what they like to create or, or whatever it just softens everything and brings people in. Oh, like, oh, cool, man. Like, when you hear somebody riffing on an idea, and you're like, oh yeah, tell me more.

You know, and it kind of brings people in. And so I think that creative energy that is based on ongoing learning and curiosity, it helps to build communities, you know,

Andy: Mm-hmm.

Matt: um, that's a, and that's a huge, that's a huge thing for us. And we, we really try and communicate that out also to how we communicate about our products and who we are as a company and other, I mean, I think, I, I, I, I hope I'm not, this isn't just wishful thinking, but I, I do get the sense that folks that are fans of what we do, they pick up on that because they're those kind of people [00:14:00] too, you know?

Andy: Oh yeah. And I mean, whatever you're into right now is going to lend itself to something close to you that, that helps with. 

Oil Painting and Its Unexpected Benefits

Andy: Like, I, I have a specific example, so I'm getting ex super head over heels in love with, uh, oil painting right now. It's something that I've, I always just said to myself like, well, I'd never be able to do that.

And then after becoming, you know, a successful filmmaker and then moving into 3D okay, doing lots of 3D work, product rendering, visual effects, like all that stuff. Okay, well then I, then when my dad got cancer, I was like, well. Life is short. I never thought I could ever do be in a band, but someday I wanna do that, but I need to do that right now because you can't count your days on earth.

So then it was like, okay, I, I want to be in a band even though I can't be in a band. I must be in a band. So I started a band and then we got a record deal and then toured. Okay, so, so since that's possible now, now my headspace is a 36-year-old, like my brain is asking questions like, well, what are the other things in your life that you said that you weren't capable of?

And like one of 'em was painting. And it was like, well, I didn't even know that that was gonna be a passion because it wasn't even a back burner thing. It was an impossible thing. But now, now that I've uncovered like this ability to like go, okay, well you can do the impossible if you just figure it out.

So now I've taken that pot off the shelf of like, well, what's in here? And now it turns out there's so, I mean, there's literally infinite people you could discover on YouTube who will literally teach you like, oh, you wanna paint like John Singer, Sergeant, I'll teach you that. And I'm like, okay. So I'm, I've been, you know, two years into the journey of that.

But to get back to your, your, your, um, your point about what you're into is relevant, even if it seems [00:16:00] irrelevant. So I'm in, I'm in the, I'm three projects right now where, um, the client was like, Hey, we need this certain type of vehicle to be in this giant billboard outside of one of our buildings. And we didn't tell you to film it last time you were there.

Can you just put one there? So I found that vehicle compositing it into Photoshop. But all of my hours painting and understanding shadow and understanding light direction and all that stuff has made me like 20 times better of a, of a compositor to the point where I composited this vehicle into this shot and gave it, and they just immediately sent it to print.

And like you can see that billboard in real life, like, and they put it in their, in their corporate offices in Miami and dah, dah, dah, dah. But it's like, if I wasn't oil painting every day, I wouldn't have been up to speed enough to just like hit that fastball. And then another, another client is asking me, all of a sudden, Hey, can you design, uh, t-shirts for like, I think 20,000 people that they're expecting to like sell these out to?

I'm like, sure. So we do this like rough, um, mood board process using AI or whatever, and they're like, yeah, we like that idea. Here you go. And then I'm thinking to myself like, well, I don't really wanna. Get super, you know, I don't wanna risk any like legalities with like this artwork being on t-shirts. I should just go paint that artwork.

So I, what I was pitching was sort of something that I, I knew that I could probably paint and they picked it and I'm like, okay, well I know what I'm doing this afternoon. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I, and the client likes things like Basquiat and like these sort of like certain types of paint styles mixed with typography in a certain way.

And I was like, yeah, okay. So like I, I painted that graphic, I text it to the, to the client and they're like, sick print it. And so I digitally take a photo of that with A-D-S-L-R, like cut out the background, it's going to the factory. And those 20,000 [00:18:00] units are, you know, it's like tens of thousands of dollars being thrown around.

Like, because of this, this graphic just needed to be right, but like. If I wasn't into oil painting, I couldn't capitalize on that opportunity and I couldn't help my friend who really wanted to do a, a new merch push in a certain direction. 

Matt: Obviously all of the connection points here is that you're doing visual oriented storytelling. after we worked at the, uh, the, the place, that went down in flames.

 It was a fantastic creative team. I really feel like I, maybe I'm tooting my own horn here, but I, I feel like that creative department was like a group of world class people that went on

Andy: Oh yeah.

Matt: things, you know? So, um, it was amazing to be a part of that team. And then from there you went on,

and you started working with, uh, Jesse Bryant, the Belief Agency and, um, I also was working at a, a con, a tech consultancy that was working. I kind of hand in hand with you guys for a while. 

The Importance of Storytelling

Matt: the Belief Agency had a very particular way of getting a client's story out of them.

And the whole point was like, tell the truth. Like, don't do all this fluffy marketing stuff. People want to hear real stories, tell them the actual story. And you guys had a, um, a very precise way of walking a client through that process so that they could really tell their story. Um,

Andy: Yeah, I think that the important takeaway there, I think that there is a collective energy in relationships there where each person at the table is curious about a certain aspect of the creative process. Whether it's defining who the client is for themself in a way that [00:20:00] they've never said it before, or whether it's filming what they do a certain way it's never been seen before.

Or whether it's taking their logo and changing it into something that is more clear about it, about the ethos that they embody or something. But the takeaway there is that when you're part of a scene, when you're, when you're surrounding yourself with people that are, I don't even, I don't even want to say like-minded, I wanna say.

Very different from each other. But there is something that, something that binds you. And if you can, if you can zero in on that thing, what's that common denominator that me and this person and this person and this person share, then you can together combine your forces and your, your powers onto something that's greater than the sum of its parts.

You know? And I think, I think that, uh, I mean, especially now more than ever, we're in a digital landscape where everyone is isolated by default. It, if we can be that much more intentional with, you know, that's with combining, uh, the strengths of your friends. That's how I have built my life. So I'm a freelancer.

I do a ton of work through a production company that contracts with a big client. Everybody who touches these, you know, projects, we are friends outside of work. I'm over at one of these guys' house, you know, his brother is also into oil painting. So I'm at his brother's house the other night and we're, canvas is out, you know, easels out, like sharing what we're learning with each other and just having an absolute blast.

Like I'm at the golf tournament tonight with the other guy. Um, you know, this girl that I work with sit right next to, now she's friends with my wife and they're talking about, you know, [00:22:00] what they're into with all kinds of different things. And so the friendships form when there's something good happening.

And, and, and what I think honestly that all boils down to is curiosity. You know? And so what I'm trying to do right now and how I live my life is I'm gonna surround myself with curious people. That are equally, if not more curious than I am about a certain thing. And curiosity is the contagion that, you know, pushes everybody to do better and better work.

And so sometimes it makes sense to work on things together. Sometimes it makes sense to, you know, work on things alone, but taking those steps to not be creatively isolated and maybe opening yourself up to like, don't just paint, you know, this could be a metaphor, but don't just paint in a void. Like take what you're painting and show it to, to as somebody that you trust and ask them what you, what you think.

Or, Hey, I'm working on this story idea, or I, I actually wanna make this piece of jewelry. Like, would you wear it, like, asking what other peoples think from a, from a standpoint of not, I'm trying to gain your approval, but I genuinely want to hear your perspective so that it actually opens my mind and it opens my perspective.

That's when I think the work gets better. You know? And just to provide a quick example, the last, uh, two nights ago when I was at my friend's brother's house painting, he showed me, he's like, well, did you, did you know that you could just do this thing with gamole that like erases the oil paint right off the canvas?

Like, you don't have to keep adding layers and layers of paint to undo your work. You can just take the oil paint off. And I was like, what? And so like two years into this, I'm like, I didn't know that there was an eraser. You know? So it's just like super fundamental things that happen in the creative process when you surround yourself with equally curious people.

That I think that that's what, that's the [00:24:00] key to rapid growth is not being isolated, you know, knowing who you are, what you're chasing. That is a, a personal journey, but the multiplier around that is perspective of people that are also curious.

In the process of answering those questions, you're drawing yourself closer and closer to something real.

What is real? You have to ask yourself that question. Why are we doing this? And how is it portraying itself in this particular trend? So if you start with a trend, you're gonna have to work backwards to story anyways. I would say if you work and you immerse yourself in the actual story of the, of the brand that you're working in, this brand deals with this because they care about this and this is how they're trying to change the world.

And that's why they're doing these things. And when they do these things, this is how they do them. This is how they're affecting the world for good or whatever. If you're connected to that, when it's time to do a trend, you'll know exactly how to do that trend and you'll launch out to do that trend in that certain thing.

But that visual will come back and illustrate the heart of what it is that that thing is doing. For example, if a coffee company is trying to work with sustainable coffee farms. In countries that are going to create pipelines that are healthy to work in. As you know, human labor is just like, you know, is coffee is one of the most egregious, you know, uh, industries for this of abusing human labor.

If a company is going to say, Hey, we're doing coffee farms that support this type of education, that's why when you drink a cup, you know exactly where the bean comes from. And that's why every time you drink this cup, you're, you're aiding and this, and this and this. If you know the actual story by the time it comes to break that fourth wall with that weird trend that comes out on Instagram, you'll know [00:26:00] exactly how to do that trend and you'll have a very, like right now, if I was in a meeting with those executives and they were like, we gotta do this trend, I would be like, well, since we are all about this, this, this, you know, the meeting I had yesterday.

Like, since we are about this and, and the entire reason we exist is this, and the reason why we're doing that, and that our root story has always been this, and you articulate it again and again 'cause they're not going to, they just want you to do the trend. You articulate their message, their mission, well then you, that's why you say, and that's why we should do this thing.

They've stopped listening at, you know, two or three sentences in all they care is that you're doing the trend. But as a craftsman, you gotta be so connected to that story that when it comes time to articulate it a certain way, you're coming from the center of like why they exist and who they're about.

So that, that story is always gonna power anything that I'm trying to touch. Uh, it's the, it's the way to go. 'cause it gives you a, it gives you a strong opinion that's grounded. And as long as you have an opinion that's grounded in truth and reality, that means something and, and you care about it as a person, well then somebody's gonna look at you and just go like, well.

I think he cares about it more than I care about it. So we should just trust him to do it. You know?

Matt: Yeah,

Andy: So you gotta come from a place of like genuine care and genuine understanding about the story, whatever that is. And you gotta understand that at a, at a, in your bones level so that when it comes time to hit those fastballs with leadership, um, you're coming from a place of like, I have a strong opinion.

This is why we should do it this way. And usually people just go like, oh, okay, well it seems like you've really thought about this, and you're like, yeah.

Matt: Yeah. Yep, totally. we've talked about this idea of storytelling in, in the past and, um, you kind of like led me through this process of how to discover that. And I'm trying to remember, there's a guy that you guys used to work with at, at Belief Agency and

Andy: Yeah, his name's Brian [00:28:00] McDonald's. He's, um, he's super well known in the, um, in the sort of story space, like in movie storytelling. Like if you look up story structure, um, his book and his book, invisible Ink, is required reading at, at Pixar.

Matt: Oh, yeah,

Andy: could, I could quote his, his books all over the place. He is been super helpful to me for sure.

Understanding the Armature in Storytelling

Matt: I remember you mentioning the armature, the idea of the armature, which is, uh, for those that, well, maybe you can explain it. For somebody who doesn't know, know that word, what's an armature and how does that relate to

Andy: Yeah, so Brian, um, came up with this metaphor. Um, he worked in creature shops and, um, Brian, Brian McDonald, the author of In Invisible Ink, and he worked in creature shops and, and came to realize pretty quickly that the weight of clay. Or, um, silicon or whatever the model was being built out of would just fall under its own weight if it didn't have an internal structure.

So there's these things called armatures, which is pretty much the bones inside of a puppet and a skeleton. And any, even in a 3D world, you know, nowadays with 3D models, like there's still armatures. Like you literally, it's literally called an armature or bone system. Um, but in storytelling you've got all these different, you know, scenes on a movie or characters or aspects or like, you know, vibes of the story or whatever, if it's all that stuff.

But there's no internal structure, like the whole thing kind of collapses under its own weight. You know, a movie's not just its vibe, it's not just the way it feels to you. It's not just the characters or the, or the, the scenes themselves. It's the internal structure of the movie. And so when there's a character who's undergoing the, the actual process of change from one.

From one person to another, and they're undergoing that change the trajectory of that story, how they overcome obstacles to reach a goal. Um, you know, is [00:30:00] is the armature, it's, it's the, the story inside of the movie is the actual, like, where is this movie going? Why is that person starting here and why are they ending there?

What is, what is the obstacles that they're overcoming? Um, that's, that's the thing that gives the entire movie structure. If you don't know what that is, you're left with like scenes that feel cool to you, characters that feel cool to you, objects that feel cool to you, but nothing's hanging off of, off of internal structure.

So the book Invisible Inc, really deals with what is that structure and how, how is a structure built and how do you look at really good works of art? Um, especially old movies, um, that have really, really strong structures where the writers knew that we've lost that over time. Um, that's the armature is really the internal structure inside of a story that gives, it, gives it, its, its, uh, ability to stand on its own.

Matt: I've picked up along the way, like in the world of marketing these sorts of conversations and how to structure saying what it is you need to say or communicating who you are.

Um, the armature one really stuck with me and it made me start to think about all time, like classic movies. Um, like right now, like you said, you know, we have so much new tech that is just like emerging and blowing everyone's minds. And like I'll say as an example, you know, me and my kids we're, um, I love that we can share that.

We're like, we like all the Marvel movies, you know, and they, you know, there have been a handful of, uh, fails in the Marvel universe, but, um, there's a good collection of pretty great Marvel movies, but like the ones that have say in the last 10 years really relied on. A lot of eye candy. 

 it looks really cool, but my brain can't keep up with what's going on. It looks really neat, but I don't know [00:32:00] how it really helps the story. And we've talked about that and I've said, you know, there are other Marvel movies from 20 plus years ago, you might want to check out, let's watch the original X-Men movies, you know,

Andy: Yeah.

Matt: we watched those and um, they were like, oh, it's so much slower.

I can actually take it in. And like, it seems like the, the storyline, the plot of the storyline is a little bit stronger. And I'm like, yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about, you

Andy: Yeah. And, and the thing that I forgot to say in that is the armature, Brian McDonald would really clearly state it as the thing that the movie has to say. So the example with that is Iron Giant, he uses the example Iron Giant, and he says that the character literally says it right when the, right when the Giant's about to nuke the, the army.

And he has his red eyes, like the little boy runs out in front of the giant and he says, stop. And he goes, you are who you choose to be. And the iron giant literally looks at him and goes, oh, I could just choose to not be a weapon. And, and so the entire point, you know, the point of that movie was, um, the director, um, just said, what if a gun decided not to be a gun anymore?

That was. That was the point of Iron Giant. And then it looks really cool when you put the flesh on it, which is like, what if there's this giant, what if it's this? But, but the movie has something to say. And so just to conclude the definition of that armature is the armature is what you're saying.

Matt: Yeah.

Andy: what are you saying?

And if you can't, if you can't boil down your artistic endeavor into what you're trying to say it, it's probably gonna be the number one thing that's causing you to have to chase your tail over and over again in the creative process. You're still trying to arrive at that. You're still trying to arrive at that.

Um, invisible Inc is all about, Hey, arrive at what you're trying to say then build.

Matt: there's so many examples of this. 

Star Wars and the Force of Creativity

Matt: You know, we're, uh, we're big Star Wars nerds at, at fa Awesome. And [00:34:00] there's one guy, there's a couple guys in particular, but one guy in particular He is all things Star Wars and he'll go, he can go on and on and on about like the storyline of the Star Wars universe and talk about why the original trilogy is far superior as far as storyline is concerned to like the newer movies that have come out.

And, uh, I, I actually agree with him

Andy: Yeah.

Matt: where I'm like, they, you know, they, those movies had very strong storylines and, um, what came after the original trilogy, it's been sort of diminishing returns. I mean, there, there's some good stuff in there for sure, don't get me wrong. But, um, I think that's a pretty good case in point is like you got a strong armature and the storytellers they understood and it's a good thing that George Lucas had some extra help because the second, uh, trilogy, at least in, you know, uh, chronological timeline, he didn't, he didn't have as much help with people saying like, Hey George, you might want to consider this instead,

Andy: Yeah, I mean if I was to boil it all down, like the words, the force, you know, if I, if I had to connect the dots between what's the force and like what we were just talking about, if you can, if you can arrive at like what you're trying, what you're what, how specifically are you trying to change the world?

Like, I'm just gonna repeat that 'cause it's so important. How specifically are you trying to change the world? If you can answer that, that is like Luke finally getting in touch with the force. Now he can lift heavy objects. Now he can, now he can, you know, not only levitate, but he can, he can defeat foes and he can, you know, but what Yoda is trying to do is connect him to that thing that surrounds us and binds, binds the galaxy together, you know?

And so I think, I think Star Wars is circling. Around this really, really special thing that is within us, which is really our voice, you know? And so as creatives, we really gotta get in touch with like, okay, what is my voice? How do I [00:36:00] use that to affect the world? And how specifically would I like to see the world change?

And how am I gonna do that is first by getting in touch with what that voice is and specifically what that voice has to say. If you can, if you, and, and so if you want to avoid that, you can entertain yourself to death. You can log tens of thousands of hours on video games. You know, that's why, that's why entertainment's so popular.

It's, it's a way to bypass the process of having to answer, what is my voice? What is my voice wanting to say?

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Andy: How do I want to, you know, anyways, that, that to me is like the reason why Star Wars is so powerful and it resonated, is not just the special effects and that. Technological innovations that it brought on the scene, which were massive.

But what he was really doing in his conversations with Joseph Campbell about the innermost cave and things like that, Joseph Campbell was really trying to draw Lucas into his innermost cave of like, why are you a filmmaker? What is it? What is it that you're actually trying to do here? And I think Lucas was trying to answer that with this thing called the force of, if I have a character who's not fully in touch with his real power yet and he just needs to like meet with somebody who is, who is in touch with that real power, and that's who Yoda and Obiwan and like all these people represent.

The reason why that movie and that franchise resonates with us so deeply is the message. And the message is you have a message, you have something that you have inside of you. And the fact that you have a message means that I have a message and that is the thing that surrounds us and binds the galaxy together.

And that's the like. That's the unimaginably powerful force that exists in each one of us. So as long as you can get in touch with that, then it's game on basically.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. That's good stuff, man. 

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Matt: Well, Andy, dude, I really appreciate your time.

I know you're a busy guy. [00:38:00] Um, what, uh, can you tell folks a little bit about what you're working on now, what you're up to and where folks can find you?

Andy: yeah, so my, um, when I started freelancing, uh, just over a year ago, my company's called Soon, which stands for something out of Nothing,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Andy: and it can be found soon, agency. And, uh, yeah, you can head over there and see, uh, some of the work that I'm doing and, uh, just excited to be here and excited to see you again and, um.

Matt: Yeah, man.

Andy: And, and stoked to see the kind of stuff that you, you guys are building and be a part of it.

Matt: And anybody looking for an amazing videographer? Look this guy up. 'cause you're gonna be amazed. So check it out and uh, we'll talk to you soon, Andy. Yeah,

Andy: Thanks, Matt.

Matt: man.

Man. Oh man, I love that guy. That's Andy, everybody. Filmmaker, motion artist, band guy, painter, storyteller, and walking, embodiment of just figuring it out. And you can check out his work. Trust me, you're gonna want to check it out. Go over to the soon agency. That's SOON, as in something out of nothing.

A big thanks to Andy for sharing his brain and his heart with us, and for reminding us that curiosity. It's not a distraction, it's the compass.

And as always, podcast Awesome. Was produced and edited by this guy right here, Matt Johnson. I get a little bit of editing help for the videos from Isaac Chase, the podcast awesome theme song was composed by Ronnie Martin. The music interstitials were done by Zach Mom, and until next time, go make something awesome.

You guys, how can I forget this? I had to tack this onto the episode at, uh, I can't believe it slipped my mind, but a little over a year ago, for those who have been paying attention, we [00:40:00] did an episode on the making of the hand horns icon. You know, the heavy metal hand gesture? Go check it out. If you haven't, if you haven't listened in or watched that episode yet, I'd uh, recommend going to YouTube.

It's funny, I think it's funny. Anyway. At the end of that, we share a metal version of the Fun awesome theme song that was composed by none other than our friend who we just talked to, Andy Mayer. And, uh, he and I were chatting about a lot of the same stuff related to storytelling and marketing and things like that.

Um, I had a campaign idea that didn't quite get off the ground. Uh, that involved a metal version of the theme song. Andy hopped to it and he wrote that version of the song in a Day. Amazing. I'm not sure if we mentioned it in the podcast, it may have been edited out, but Andy is also in a great band, a great metal band called Opponent, and you're gonna wanna check that out.

So. For now, enjoy the metal version of the Fun awesome theme song.

[00:42:00]