A More Complete Beast
Strategies for driving the needle forward on your life.
A More Complete Beast
From College Dropout to Successful Entrepreneur: A Boudoir Photography Tale
Ever pondered over what it takes to become a successful entrepreneur without a college degree? Our special guest, Mallory Scalise, is a living testament to that possibility. Dropping out of college and venturing into the photography world may not sound like the conventional road to success, but Mallory’s journey and achievements paint a different picture. Not only did she rake in six figures in her first year of photography, but she also redefines the essence of boudoir photography, transforming it into a medium for empowering women.
The core of this episode revolves around Mallory’s unique approach to boudoir photography, where she leverages her experience as a doula and working with physical therapists to provide a safe and empowering space for her clients. She walks us through how she coaches her clients - helping them embrace vulnerability and rediscover their self-image. But the learning doesn't stop there; Mallory's insights extend to the realm of goal-setting and visualization. She opens up about how these practices have driven her focus and motivation, shedding light on the importance of tuning into our internal voices and intuition when making business decisions.
We wind up this insightful discussion with Mallory detailing the boudoir photography experience and how potential clients can book a session with her. Whether you're curious about the inner workings of boudoir photography, looking for nuggets of entrepreneurial wisdom, or both, this episode has got you covered. So, buckle up for an enriching conversation filled with fresh perspectives on boudoir photography, success against odds, and the power of self-belief and hard work.
This is a more complete beast podcast where we discover and distill strategies to drive the needle forward on your life. Today I'm sitting across from Mallory Scalise who, far from a starving artist, made over 100 grand her first year in photography. If you're somebody in the service-based industry, you do not want to miss this podcast. We get pretty deep in this too, and we talk a lot about masculinity, femininity, but, as always, this ties back to business and entrepreneurship. Look, if you learn something in this podcast, do me a favor, leave a five-star review and then share this podcast. The reason this podcast continues to grow is because you're leaving reviews and you're sharing the podcast. Now let's get into it. So I got to ask because I kept saying like we're gonna have this guest on and I don't think I even say the word correctly.
Speaker 2:Probably not, because I didn't even know how to say it.
Speaker 1:How do you say it, boudoir, boudoir? Yes, see, I was like Baudoir, so that ain't it Boudoir.
Speaker 2:When I woke it in to all of that obviously how I got started into it. But I had to Google search how to pronounce that because I didn't want to sound like an idiot when I first started.
Speaker 1:Sounds French.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and basically means like a room, like a room to get ready, like a powder room. Like it's like a fancy word for that, technically like, if you look up the definition of that.
Speaker 1:Okay, just a room to get ready.
Speaker 2:That's where like yeah, like a powder room, like you know, or maybe you see, like a Vandy with like the big, like bulbs, like all the like. That's what I think. That's what it is that like originated from.
Speaker 1:But colloquially, like how it's used in your industry. Yeah, what is it? What is Boudoir?
Speaker 2:So I think it's hard to actually put a definition on it. Like, personally, I think it's defined differently from person to person and photographer to photographer, because it's not just one box, like there's a lot of different options to go with Boudoir, like there's a lot of different paths you can go with it. So for me personally, how I would define it is empowering photography, a way for people to connect with their bodies, their femininity, masculinity, sexuality. So it's more of that for me. But it can definitely be a different definition for other photographers because there's different realms of Boudoir that you can get into. So there is like more erotica, which I don't really step into.
Speaker 2:That Okay, that's not, that's not for me anyways, but there's photographers that are more into that. But then also, I think a lot of times people think Boudoir, they think lingerie, they think nude, and it doesn't have to be that. I've had clients that have been fully clothed, that you know, maybe they're into bikes and they like wear, you know, jeans, leather, jacket, so you can kind of go in so many different directions with it. But it's more about empowering the client and then also telling their story and for them to be able to connect with themselves and be able to also maybe find themselves in a different way that they've never connected with before.
Speaker 2:So creating an environment for that specific individual, yeah, and to create a safe space for that and for people to be able to do that and it is vulnerable is hard. So I believe that it's very important to find a photographer who can actually create that environment for you.
Speaker 1:And how did you get into it?
Speaker 2:So that's a long story. I'll try to keep it short. Is it okay if I share a little bit of like my backstory to kind of connect the dots?
Speaker 1:Go for it so we encourage it.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool. So my backstory I didn't finish college, which I think is key to point out, because I always preach this that you don't have to go to college to be successful. And it's not for everyone, it's for some people, which is fine. Didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, went to college because my parents are like you're going to college, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Naturally, we're roughly the same age and everybody's parents are kind of course you can go, Just call her you know that's.
Speaker 2:We grew up in middle class. My dad worked hard all his life, wanted a better life for us, so I understand that, but it wasn't for me. I didn't know what I wanted to do. One for two years I was like this is bullshit, don't know what I want to do with my life. I feel like I'm wasting time money.
Speaker 2:While I was in college I got a job right out of high school with a physical therapy company, locally owned small business. They're doing very well for themselves. They have a lot of different locations, but I started out as an aide for them and then, after I quit college, I was like you know, I'm just going to work for them, figure out what I want to do with my life, and I basically worked my way up in the company. I taught myself how to do a lot of the office work, so I was self taught with insurance and everything, and I was really quick on the computers. When I started with the company they were still doing paperwork and they switched over to computer. So a lot of the office managers were older and it was really hard for them to catch on to that right away. So I was able to catch on quickly. So I managed both roles and in a way I'm not bashing the company when I say this, but it was kind of used because they would use me to do both jobs and they didn't have to hire somebody else. So I use that to my advantage and I would actually ask for raises. I would meet with a boss and was like you know, I'm a good asset to your company. I never call off. I, you know, will always cover for people. I'm doing both these things like I want to raise. No problem. They gave me a raise and then eventually I basically asked to do marketing for them. I was always very bold, like always, when I want something I go after it, and I knew I'd be good at it. But I don't have a marketing degree. They gave me that job and that's kind of what led me into really making connections with people. So it was a really good start to my career, really grateful for working for them.
Speaker 2:I worked for them for about seven years and then COVID happened. That's where you know I say it was a blessing for me. I think a lot of good things came out of COVID, but I was laid off because with marketing, mainly what I did was I would go to events. You know I was basically would go and do cold calls to doctors and things like that, so I wasn't allowed in the hospitals, I wasn't allowed to go to these events because they canceled them for the rest of the year, right, so I was laid off, but that really helped me to start to get into photography, which was never something I was interested in or thought I would do.
Speaker 2:Basically, I bought a camera because I had my daughter and I wanted a professional camera to take some nice pictures of her, and I also this is a whole other part of my life but did become interested in birth work. So my clients were asking me to do like maternity pictures and stuff for them. So I was messing around here and there. So I already was messing around. This was like fall of 2019.
Speaker 2:I got my first professional camera and random people just asked me can you take family photos for me? Because they started seeing me do pictures, and so when I got laid off from my job is where I just kind of took off with photography and started to do more and some random woman on Facebook messaged me and asked me to do a bidouard session, which is where we kind of get into all this. That's where I looked it up, because I'm like I don't even know what this is. I had an idea of what it was but, like, like I said, didn't know how to pronounce it or anything like that, didn't know this woman. She people tagged me in a post that she put like in a group, maybe like a Pittsburgh group or Westmoreland group, things like that, and people recommended me just based on like other pictures I have done, but I've never done a bidouard session up until this point.
Speaker 2:And I told her that I was like, listen, I've never done that type of photography before. I just want to let you know that I would be willing to do it. But I want to be like honest with you. And she was like no, I love your other work that I've seen. I want you to do it. And I was like, ok, like I'll try it, you know.
Speaker 2:And so she had a friend who worked at Seven Springs and she was like you know, I'm going to get a hotel room, that's where we will do it. And I was like, ok, that works. She was like, but you can have the room for the night, so if you would like to put it out there and like line up other girls to like do more, since you have it for the whole day, like go for it. She's like, because I just want to come do my session, I'm going to leave, and I was like, all right, sounds good. So I threw it out there on Facebook, like on my personal page. I was like hey, looking for some girls you want to do a bidouard session at Seven Springs. End up lining up 14 girls, wow.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And it changed my life. Like it's still surreal looking back at that, but when I I was nervous and I was, you know, searching all the YouTube videos of like poses because I had like no idea what I was doing. But at that point in my life not to get too much into the birthwork realm I already was confident in holding space for people and being able to create a safe space for women. Because of doing that work, because I was a certified doula and I and I did that. So I always already was in environments where it was a vulnerable, you know, type of environment. So I was used to that already. So what I, what I did was kind of use that already and I I always love just empowering people. That's something that I'm good at, that's something that I'm passionate about.
Speaker 2:So I did these 14 sessions back to back. We had so much fun I had. And then what validated everything? Because in my mind I was like this is was amazing, I love this. But there's still like that voice in your head like, ok, what if the girls didn't like it? Like what if they don't like their pictures? You know, like that kind of thing, because it was new for me. I had so many of those girls text me like right away after they left, like this was the most empowering experience I've ever had my life. It was the first time I felt sexy for the first time in like forever, 10 years. Like you know, I now feel OK with taking my clothes off when I'm having sex with my husband, like so many, like positive you know things that came back that I was like this is what I meant to do.
Speaker 1:I want to highlight a few things, and then I want to ask about that. The first thing I need to highlight is the fact that what you did when you were working in the company is you made yourself almost irreplaceable. You put yourself in a position where you were delivering a lot of value and, in turn, you were able to ask for additional compensation and then get that additional compensation. You also created a role for lack of a better word of marketing for that company, which obviously was impactful. Marketing is an important part of any company. When COVID happened, you weren't just like I guess, that's it, it's a wrap, I'm not gonna do anything. Instead, you use that to kind of like I guess change course, adjust your sales and then move forward in a more entrepreneurial way, where it sounds like and I don't know if you recognize this being able to create value in a company is intrapreneurship. You're existing inside of a business to create something else. That's intrapreneurship. Very small step, significant step, but a small step to go from an intrapreneur to an entrepreneur. And that's what COVID actually allowed you to do is to start this entrepreneurship journey.
Speaker 1:You use the skills that you had from being a doula and actually being in physical therapy, because I've been through physical therapy work alongside some physical therapists years ago and you have to create a safe space there Because a lot of people don't have the confidence they're injured, they're afraid to move through space.
Speaker 1:You kind of half of physical therapy, just like half of personal training, is just giving the people confidence to actually move their body in a way. And you had that experience and kind of like through a series of events and opportunities that you took advantage of, kind of went into this boudoir area. So the question that I have is you said that the women you were concerned like I had a lot of fun doing this. Right, that was your words. You had a ton of fun doing this. You weren't sure if they did, but then afterwards they said I feel empowered, I feel sexy, I feel like I can take my clothes off around people that really honestly, like most guys, they aren't like man. I wish my wife would keep her clothes on Like that's not even real.
Speaker 2:That's an internal conversation. That's like not real.
Speaker 1:But why do you think it is that there's a lot of women that don't have that feeling like, oh, I better hide myself or I don't feel comfortable about myself? Why do you think they have that? And then, what does that type of photography do to reveal that again?
Speaker 2:Sure. So I think one of the biggest things is not always, but a lot of the women I work with are moms and, again, not always there's women that have. I mean, we all have insecurities. Like, I still have insecurities, but they're very, at this point, minor because I'm always working on myself. Right, we're always gonna have different things that come up, but I work with a lot of moms and the changes that we go through it can be very difficult to navigate that postpartum, and so I noticed that a lot, that just the changes with their bodies are even just aging. If they've gained some weight, they feel so disconnected with their body as well and their sexuality as we get older, and so I think that plays a big role in that. Younger girls. I think a lot of it is more society, just the expectations of what a woman's body is supposed to look like, and it's ludicrous what society deems what women should look like. There's we all look so different and we shouldn't embrace that. So I'm all about embracing you being your own skin. There's not.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge advocate of being healthy and taking care of your body but we can all eat the same, work out the same and we're still gonna look different, right? So it's about being connected with yourself internally as well and doing that internal work, because you can also do all the workouts, like I've had, because people think it's girls that may be like quote unquote overweight or whatever that are insecure. Right, I've had girls that you're like what are you insecure about? They work out all the time. They're like you know they have the ideal body quote unquote ideal body and they have so many insecurities you can go to the gym every day and if you're not doing that internal work, you're not gonna be secure in who you are. So to answer that question, and then, I'm sorry, what was your other?
Speaker 1:one. How does the Boudoir photography? How does that? Kind of reconnect them to that, I guess, sexual element of themselves.
Speaker 2:Right. Ultimately, it's creating that space for them to be vulnerable. It's very hard to be vulnerable number one. So being able to create that space that they feel comfortable being vulnerable is key. And then they can. And then I coach them into being able to connect with their bodies. By the way, I coach them through the session because it's not just posing you, you're taking a picture. I'm very much doing it in a certain way for them to be able to move their body, not be afraid to move their body, not be afraid to touch themselves. And when I say that, I'm not saying they're masturbating, it's not that kind, but like actually just putting their hands around themselves and touching their face and moving their. It's just like moving your body, like almost like dancing right. Just connecting with their body in that way, in that vulnerable setting, creates this spark that is ignited again, and then also them seeing the result of it at the end as well. Literally.
Speaker 2:I've had women say this to me. This is what I tell people you will see yourself in a different light and the way you know how, like someone that truly loves you and cares about you and they compliment you and they're like you're beautiful or you're this or that, and like that person's like no, at least don't believe it. And the person that cares about you gets so frustrated because they're like I'm telling you, but it doesn't matter how much a person tells you, you have to believe it for yourself. So I always tell people you're gonna get to see yourself how the people who love you see you and it's seeing themselves in that different light and they're like wow, that's me, like, yeah, that's you. Like, that is you.
Speaker 2:Like they are shocked when they actually see it and so and I mean, my clients cry when they see their images because they're like I've never felt this good about myself in my life. So it's just really cool to see that transformation. But it's more than just sexy pics, which is what, like I think a lot of people think about. It's just the experience as well and what I provide for my clients in that setting. It's not like they just come and get pictures, like we're together all day, and I also do a lot of pre-work with my clients as well.
Speaker 1:That's the one word that you touched on. That is exactly going through my mind is what I tell all my guys that work at the gym, the trainer specifically. We have a service, we provide a service and an experience. All right. So that's what a good coach, a good trainer does. When that customer is in there, you're creating the service of exercise, of health, of fitness, of strength accumulation. But it's the experience they have when they get there Of gaining the confidence of being like that was, let's say, somebody hit a PR squad personal record, for people listening doesn't know what that means.
Speaker 1:That instills a feeling of empowerment for the people. There's so many people that come in that have never lifted a weight in their life and they know that they should, because maybe they are starting to have the deleterious effects of age and as they get stronger, it's not just the fact that they're getting stronger, it's the experience of having somebody there to actually quantify that and be like. This is where you were day one when you came in. Six months later, this is where you are now. I always tell them we're creating a service and an experience. So what does that pre-work look like? That when you're saying I do a lot of pre-work with my customers?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so number one is my Facebook group. So I created this space, this and I hate to use safe space. I feel like it's overused, but the best way to explain it is a safe space on the internet because, let's be honest, that's hard to find. People are very cruel and I think, even people that naturally aren't like that. People just get worked up over stuff, right. So I wanted to create a place where women could talk and be vulnerable and be honest with one another and literally be judgment free and kind of get rid of talking about everything else that's always on social media. That just causes everybody to get so upset. So it is women only for my Facebook group. It's a VIP group. I only allow women in there, except for a Lager because he's my assistant.
Speaker 2:But he just isn't there to monitor stuff, yeah, but I like it, but anyways. So women only. But I've created this group where I mean the women. They've made friends on the internet. They're always uplifting one another, like it's so A compliment from a guy feels great, but when you get complimented from another woman, there's nothing like it.
Speaker 2:So when I post even my work in there, there's tons of comments from these girls, like complimenting the girl who did the session, or even a girl. That's like it's around summertime and they're like I don't know if I should wear this bathing suit and they'll post pictures of themselves and these girls are encouraging them. Or if they're having a bad day, they post about it and these girls are encouraging them. So it's a very active group, very, very active. So I've created a relationship with people. Before they're a client, which is key and that's why a lot of them become clients, because they feel like they know me and they come to the studio. They're like I feel like I already know you, same for me to them, like I already feel friends with them. I've never met them in person, but we're literally talking almost every day.
Speaker 1:That makes perfect sense. That's why I think like so when we had Nathaniel Morton on here. He's a guy that basically has a successful YouTube channel. He also does some coaching. He's a basketball coach. He was all about value add marketing, which I think is great, and there's definitely a place for that, especially when you're grabbing information. You could say, hey, one of the his funnel is give me your email and then I'm gonna deliver you a jump program. He specializes in increasing athlete's vertical jump, so he gathers that information and he provides them with a good, free, value add type of service where he can capture that email and then market to them later.
Speaker 1:In addition to that, and what's worked very well for my business and it sounds like it works really well for your business is you're creating a relationship with the marketing and, in your case, a Facebook group, which I wanna ask more about that. But in my case, I'm basically thinking about speaking to an audience. So when I can't tell you how much money I've made off of one YouTube video of me walking through the gym, like I'll get a text hey, I'm so-and-so, I'm interested in joining the gym, like great, have you ever been to the gym? No, I haven't been to the gym but I saw your YouTube video boom that has created so much, honestly, money revenue for the gym. Because people are like I know this guy, even though it's not as interactive as yours which I think yours is actually probably a lot better it's interactive enough where I'm speaking to the camera and they've been marketed to and I hate to use that word, but they've been. I mean really they've been marketed to over enough time that when they walk in and they see Alex Wallace to show them around the gym or do a consult for personal training, it's not unfamiliar to them.
Speaker 1:And again, yours is obviously more vulnerable than mine, but mine is also requires a certain amount of vulnerability because people come to the gym they're insecure about something. You don't come to the gym because you're totally secure. You come to the gym because you want to improve yourself, which I think is great. You know what I mean A little bit of wanting to be better and it is a little bit of insecurity. I think is actually valuable if it pushes you in the right way. It's not valuable and it's detrimental if it prevents you from action, but it can actually be very beneficial if it spurs you to action. So that's just kind of where there's an overlap between our two industries is allowing people to feel comfortable with the person in front of the camera, in your case, behind the Facebook page, in my case, on my YouTube channel allowing people to feel comfortable enough to come in and actually get that service and experience that we're trying to provide.
Speaker 1:Another thing that's very important is that the marketing coincides with the service and experience. It'd be one thing if you have this Facebook group. It's all about women empowerment, like hey, this is what we do, this is a women's only group and you come in and it's like totally different when they get there and they're like, wow, you look really bad today. Maybe we got to scrap today. Come back tomorrow after you get eight hours of sleep. So tell me more about this Facebook group, because I think, from a business perspective, I understand it's a value add and it's very important, but it's also part of your business. How did you kind of create this Facebook group and how did you get the idea to do it?
Speaker 2:So I honestly created a private group right around the time that I started. Boudoir did like that marathon of Boudoir, I guess, and it was just an idea in my head. I was like I want a more private space on social media where I can filter people out. And then, to be honest, what really helped me to grow it is that I did invest. There is a, her name's Alex Loveland. She's a millionaire, she's a Boudoir photographer and educator and I stumbled upon her through YouTube. So Michael Sasser actually give a lot of credit to. He's a male Boudoir photographer and I was following him when I first started looking into Boudoir with like posing. He has just a lot of free education on Boudoir photography on YouTube, so I was looking at a lot of his videos and he interviewed Alex Loveland and she talked about how she educates other Boudoir photographers and this is what she says. But she helps people make a ton of money. So I was like that's for me.
Speaker 2:You're perfect, you're like great, great amen, that's for me, so I was like where is she?
Speaker 1:at.
Speaker 2:So she has a Facebook group for photographers and, yes, she's a Boudoir photographer, but it can help any other type of photography if they implement her guides. So she has. At the time when I purchased them, she had seven guides. She has a couple more she's come out with since then and I knew that this could take off. I knew that would be good.
Speaker 2:I'm the type of person, like I said, when I want something I get it, like I don't stop until I get it. And I especially like I know that, feeling like when I did all those sessions, I'm like I know I can do this. I know that women need this or people need this. I mean, I mainly work with women, but there's men too as well, and so, you know, I talked to my husband about it and he knows how I am. So he was like, yeah, I think you can do it, you know.
Speaker 2:And I told him about the guides and I'm like, listen, I've read all the testimonials of other photographers who have done that and how they make their money back right away. It was a big investment, but I was, and a lot of the people you know buy one guide here, one there, and I'm like it's all or nothing. I was like I'm buying all of them now, so I have everything. So I'm set up, you know, to be successful. And that was in fall of 2020, oh, late 2020, like November is when I purchased them, and my first year I made six figures.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:So you know, that's kind of unheard of, especially I'm a very new photographer, obviously that I was only doing photography in general for a year before then. But so I give a lot of credit to her and just how she markets. But she has a whole Facebook group guide that really helps with how to grow the group, content for the group, how to make it personal, how to show your own vulnerability so the people in there can be vulnerable, and to stay active in the group. So that's what really helped me to grow the group. I already it's funny because I already had one, you know, for a few months before I came across her and then, like I said, since then I have almost 5,000.
Speaker 1:When it really scaled up after you, you sought out for lack of a better explanation a mentor.
Speaker 2:Basically, it was through her guides, Basically mentored you through her guides and you were able to generate six figures in here Right and she has a whole pricing guide, a phone script guide, like just things that really were huge tools that all connected together for it to be successful.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, because my first year in business I made 12 grand. Yeah, that's a hell of a lot better than I did.
Speaker 2:I mean that's gross right, yeah, but still I mean no, no, so was mine.
Speaker 1:That's the worst part mine was gross too Right so I wasn't so.
Speaker 2:I wasn't even in the. When I met with the CPA, he didn't believe me. He didn't take me seriously because I'm a photographer, because photographers aren't taken seriously, they're starving artists. It's like any other artist.
Speaker 2:I'm like, listen, there's a lot of artists out there like that, but there's a lot of artists that there is the money out there too and it's not. It's one of those things I tell people because it is an investment, like it's investment in yourself. I understand it's not for everybody. Now everybody sees the value in it. Elijah just joked with me about my old car and I'm like, listen, I could care less to have a nice car, but somebody else is gonna drop 50 grand on a car. You know what I mean. I was like it's all in what you see value in. So it's not for everybody.
Speaker 2:And I tell people it's a luxury experience. I provide a luxury experience for my clients and take it or leave it, you don't have to do it. But I know my value. Like I'm not ripping people off. I have repeat clients all the time. So if I have repeat clients that come back to me to experience it again because, like you said, it's all about the experience, right, that long lasting experience, like they wanna feel that again and again and again so they come back and they do another session, or they come back with their partner and do a session with their partner.
Speaker 1:So that's serious too, because, like you said, when I think of photographer, I generally think of a starving artist, Like I can think of several people in my head specifically that are photographers and they've been doing it for over 10 years and they don't make any money.
Speaker 2:And I can tell you exactly what sets I mean. There's obvious things I said that sets me apart, but I think key things that advice I give to other photographers that have reached out to me is find your niche. Is that how you say it? Neesh your niche, because a lot of these photographers it's like we call it shoot and burn right, so they will do any gig, they'll do weddings, they'll do family, they'll do newborns. If you're an athlete and you do five different sports, are you gonna be really great at any of them? No, it might be like mediocre at all of them. But to me key is focusing on one thing and becoming the best at that.
Speaker 2:And I found what I loved and it doesn't have to be Boudoir. I mean that can be for wedding, that can be for newborns, that can be for family, that can be for senior portraits. There's photographers out there that make just as much as me doing senior portraits. It's all about how you market yourself and what you provide for the client. But that's so important because when you're pulling yourself too thin doing a bunch of things, you're never really good at one thing because you're trying too much. So it's finding that so many photographers, they just they wanna make the money, they wanna make more money, but at the end of the day they're not really making good money because they're being pulled in a million different directions. They're just taking whatever job they're like. They'll take pennies, you know, because and it's also a money block too that's a huge one. People have so many money blocks. It's something I had to work through.
Speaker 1:Explain that. What do you mean by money block?
Speaker 2:So people think you project your own money blocks onto clients. It's very easy to do that. So you know it's uncomfortable for somebody to say my session's $2,000, or my session's $6,000, or you know, whatever everyone's money block's different. It could be 200 for somebody, it could be 1,000 for somebody, right? So when you have those money blocks-.
Speaker 1:So it's your projecting your income level or comfort level of purchasing the product onto somebody else.
Speaker 2:Right. And what happens is you low ball yourself because you think people aren't gonna pay that and there's gonna be, trust me, there's gonna be a lot of people who won't pay it and there's gonna be people that are like that's ridiculous, how could you charge that? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But there's gonna be a lot of people who are willing to pay that and a lot more. And it's when you realize that, when you come to that realization that there's people out there with a lot of money and they wanna spend it, there's people out there and I'm not even saying a lot of money, I mean I have girls that are waitresses, that and I'm not passionate. I'm not buying anything. I'm like I'm not a millionaire.
Speaker 1:That's not a high income job. They're not a millionaire.
Speaker 2:I have teachers, I have nurses, you know. So it's still middle class people, but again, it's all in what you find value in. So there's people that have a lot of money that they just wanna spend, or people also who want to spend money on that. People wanna feel good about themselves. They will pay for that, you know. It's like. That's why, like you know, diets always are so huge that people will pay, you know, for anything or or any kind of skincare that's like, oh, it's gonna take your wrinkles away, right, but it shows that it actually provides that for my clients, because they come back, you know, someone can try skincare and they're like they see all the ads for it and they realize again, this doesn't take my wrinkles away, you know. Or a diet, it works for a little bit, it doesn't last.
Speaker 1:I think that's that's a good point to highlight and you explain that well. I do think that when I first started into the into the training business so basically I started out as just a personal trainer Was able to scale multiple. I was renting space at multiple locations, got fired from. One of them opened my own space. The place I was fired from.
Speaker 2:I ended up buying kind of a long story, kind of crazy. How'd I work out?
Speaker 1:But I remember when I first started I was 23 years old, broke as hell, fucking so broke when I had to sit across from somebody that was older than me, may weigh more money than me, and I didn't have any money. It was really tough at the time. I forget what I was charging, but it was like, let's say, our smallest package is like 325 bucks. I felt insecure in that sales process. Now I went through like all the books, like how to master the art of selling, like all his exigler stuff. I spent money on sales classes and, yes, that did provide skills. It did for sure, and there's skills that I still use now in my sales approach and I think that's important for any entrepreneur, any salesperson, to have. But what I do think it did is it gave me the Confidence because I was pouring money back into myself and be like it's easy for me to ask for $325 because I just spent, you know all them, all the revenue I had to go to, you know these Sadler sales, sales appointments for the last six weeks right.
Speaker 1:So, like I know how to do this now, or I went and I spent, you know, $600 on a weekend certification so I could learn the clean and snatch and how to teach it better to my athlete, so it's easy for me to ask my that money for so I often wonder like how much of the increase in sales, because when somebody sits across from me, my closing rate is great.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean now. So that could be, maybe I'm undercharging, right, maybe if you're, if you're getting too many yeses, sometimes you're not, you're not charging enough. So it could be that. But I think, outside of that, it's the fact that I have the confidence to be like. This is gonna take two years. It's gonna cost you, on average, $427 a month, so you're probably gonna spend about $12,000 over the next two years, but we're gonna get you stronger, more mobile and healthier, because that's what we do here.
Speaker 1:So, I often wonder it's. It's almost like good sales is a transference of confidence. Yeah, I'm selling the invisible, and in a lot of ways you are too. Now you have a visual representation and you can show like, hey, these are the girls that have worked with me, right, but you're selling the invisible. They haven't had that experience yet, right, and they aren't in possession of those photographs yet right.
Speaker 1:So you're selling the invisible. So when that happens, it's a transference of confidence, like I'm confident that I can provide this service and experience for you, so it's no problem for me to be like, hey, this is gonna cost 12 grand. I was going through some of our older, older customers that have been with us for a while. I Mean there's people that have spent like $40,000 at my gym. Sure, that's, you know, that's serious cash. There's some people that's a down payment on a house, that's a new vehicle right.
Speaker 1:But it's the fact that I have the confidence to be like hey, you know, this is what this cost right has allowed me to scale the business much faster. Then if I were to say the same thing but not have the confidence to actually go in for the kill, does that make sense?
Speaker 2:absolutely, it's definitely confidence and I think you know just Doing it over and over and over again. So, like I, anytime somebody inquires for me it's a phone console, I get them on the phone, okay. So that's nerve-wracking at first and naturally, like I'm not, some of that gets anxiety on the phone. So it wasn't as hard for me as maybe like other people, but it can be nerve-wracking to be on a phone call. Now it's like second nature do those phone calls right. So confidence in that. But I will say and you you said it, would you answer your question?
Speaker 2:too many yeses more when you become confident, and not so much confident but comfortable, I would. I would say is the better word with where your pricing is at is where you hit the roof For your money blogging. You need to go, you need to punch through that.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think it's time to raise your prices. I think.
Speaker 1:I think so too, and we do every. You know, yeah, certain amount of time where I'm like we're kind of busting at the seams here, you know we're gonna, we're gonna raise it by an extra two bucks an hour. You know what I mean. Or, like you know, the gym has Not to give all the number, but it is twice. It has twice as many members as the peak membership that gym has ever had at any point ever. Yeah, we've doubled it.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:So it's like, at some point you also have to look at the analytics and be like, okay, we're not charging enough if we have twice as many people as they were in the past. Now, that is a reflection of the effort and the capital expenditure I put into the business, because before it was kind of sad, like a lot of the equipment was broken when I walked through I was like, sheesh, remember walking in and I'm like, fucks man, I don't know how I'm gonna fix this place, but I ended up doing it. So I think part of it is it's just a better product. Sure, but you also need to be like, okay, I Could. I may not be charging enough and, like you said, there's a money block where it's like, yeah, but if I was a kid and you know I was home for college I wouldn't want to spend 30 bucks. I might want to spend $27 but again.
Speaker 1:I'm projecting my comfort level onto them and, honestly, like when I grew up, 2795 a month was like a lot of money for me. Yeah, that's how I was, that's how I grew up. Yeah, right, but some of these kids pull up and, like you know, 2023 Audi. Right like that's crazy, I'm right, and so to them. If I told him it's 40 bucks a month, right, they'd be like sweet.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 1:I think you're right, it's age does not.
Speaker 2:There's not a limit on that, like that's. The crazy thing too is, you know, I've had clients in the early 20s that have spent in a day they dropped over six grand. Okay, so they just paid that up front Because I was a money block. For me was age to you think? Oh Well, they don't, they don't have money yet they're young, loveable. Well, here you just say that they don't have money, right, like we don't. We don't know People's financial situations. But also, ultimately, even if you know somebody more personal level what their job is, you can kind of like have an idea again, like I said, but you don't know what people are willing to pay for. People drop so much money on a pair of shoes, you know. So it's like you know. Do they like, like star, like coffee? How much does it? They make a cup of coffee at home with people are gonna go to Starbucks. Is Starbucks lower their prices?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they don't see a young kid walk through and they're like well, you know how? About a dollar fifty?
Speaker 2:right. And here's my thing I'm a small business owner. I do different things to give back. I recently did a giveaway where basically three girls more or less got a free session, you know, and that helped me in a huge way. It was a marketing thing as well to get people on my email listing. But like I mean that's a lot of money for me to eat, right, but like I also it feels good to do that, or I do discounts or you know whatever that may look like. You know, you know for you, if you, if you feel like you would like to do discount on you know Call for college kids or something during a certain time, you know whatever that looks like for you.
Speaker 2:I think it's important to do that, and but what I love too with what I do is, like you know, giving back as well. You know I'll do that a lot for for clients and and for for people that want to do a session. You know I do different things like that for people to have the opportunity, but I also a huge part of my clients being able to afford it is I offer payment plans, which is huge as well.
Speaker 2:So that's always an option. You know they're pre-session payment plans that and I, because of how busy I am they can book out a good bit to have a lot of time to make payments towards it, which helps people to afford it as well. So it's a great option.
Speaker 1:That's a great idea. Yeah, and that's kind of how we so I don't ask just a little more overlap between our industries. I don't ask for 12 grand and two years of commitment, right. Yeah, I basically say, hey, we're gonna do ten sessions on a recurring basis, or 30 sessions on a recurring basis and after that 30 sessions it's just gonna renew. You don't have to do anything. We put a card on file. It just renews over time. Sure, and it's. It's kind of the same idea. It makes it more digestible from a price perspective.
Speaker 1:Definitely because there is a point where you do butt up against mathematics, like if I charged a thousand dollars a month, probably not gonna get anybody. So you butt up against math at some point, sure, but you have to balance that with, like you said, making sure that you're charging enough for your time and your experience and your product. And that's where Entrepreneurship and this is why I love it and this is why the predominant part of this podcast is entrepreneurship is because it's it's, to me, it's the ultimate blend of Science, which is the balance sheet, it's the profit and loss statement, it is the cash flow analysis with art, and the art is Okay, you almost and I hate to say it like this you're reading the psychology of your, your customers, of the Surrounding area, of your potential customers. There's also something that I've learned to trust and and Trust but verify, I want to say, and that's my instinct too. So that's balancing the science of the balance sheet with the art of.
Speaker 1:I have ten years of experience in here. I'm starting to get this feeling. Now I have to validate it. Why am I getting this feeling? And sometimes it doesn't mean anything, but I find most of the time it does.
Speaker 2:I'm all about intuition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. It's hard to explain. I think what it is for more of like a grounded, almost scientific approach to it and it does. This might not necessarily be true. I think what it is is in my opinion, there are millions of years of evolution that took place between your ears. There are a lot of calculations that go through your head without you ever thinking about it consciously. Okay, so when I'm walking down a trail because my wife and I we go to a lot of national parks, we're actually going to Switzerland, we're gonna be hiking in the Alps here and I will be at the highest point in Europe, or like the second highest point in Europe seven days from today oh, that's besides the point when you're walking on a trail I'm not consciously thinking about well, there's a route there, I got a step over there, there's a rock, there You're. You just see the steps and the roots and you're exactly, and I think that same thing happens in business.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, as you get more and more experience in the industry, as you get more and more experience with the clientele that you have, as Well as the clientele you're trying to get, you're doing these back-end calculations in your head. It boils to the surface at strange times. I noticed for me, if I'm going for a long run, sometimes I won't listen to music, I'll just listen to that intuition. If I'm in the shower, boom, I'll get something that comes to mind and I immediately jump out and have to write it down. I carry a notebook it's literally right in there. I carry a notebook that's just filled with random shit.
Speaker 2:That's when those ideas come to you, because you're not, you're not focusing on so many other things, so you're hearing that inner voice, more or less.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I do think it's important to have that time, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's tough to especially like yeah in business when you're when you're in that growth phase like right now. So three years ago tripled the business we're trying to I mean I can't I have an NDA, I can't exactly say where trying to quadruple it again in terms of square footage and what we can actually do, and I have that meeting on Thursday. Yeah, I know what I need to do between now Tuesday, wednesday, thursday I need to sit down or I need to run, or I need to do something with zero distractions for an hour.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I just need to allow the subconscious to bring the light into my conscious Some of the obstacles, some of the conversations, some of the different aspects that can happen in this conversation, so I can navigate it appropriately. Right, I've planned this thing, I've been thinking about this thing for weeks. Yeah, for weeks. You journal, I journal every day. I always think about it. I wake up and I'm thinking about it. I'm in the shower, I'm thinking about it and I know when that time comes, when Thursday at 4 30 comes, there's not gonna be a single thing that that person can throw at me that I haven't already worked through right and that intuition, evaluate whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that inner voice. I think that's like Instrumental for some of these huge business owners. Like if you look at the Steve jobs, if you look at the bill, if you look at these guys that are changing industries Mm-hmm, tight ends of industry I do think they do the same thing absolutely. They listen to that and they they validate it, but then they act on it.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing, too. With that, though, you can't be Scared of failure.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:It's actually good to fail. So I think that's it. That was a big part of it too. Is is my personality and how I am is that I always was willing to go after it and it was okay if I failed. Right, because you're going to, in ways, it's all about what you do with that. If you keep repeating it, then that's where you know you Actually fail. Fail, but it's good to fail because you learn. It's a lesson you know. But yeah, I have now, how is your technique with journey journaling? I'm just curious.
Speaker 2:So what are you like right? Do you write in the in, like the present, like your thoughts, like during that time, or do you write in that this already happened?
Speaker 1:So what I like to do is, when I visualize, I visualize the outcome right when I write, I write in the Like what's gonna happen in the future?
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Do you write I want, like this is what I want, or do you write I'm just throwing this out there? I made this dollar amount in 2024 or?
Speaker 1:whatever. So what I'll do is okay, I'll just tell you the full gambit of what I do. So I write down my goals and I put it, I tape it to my mirror. So it's the first thing I see when I get up. It's the last thing I see when I go to bed. I save it as the background of my phone. I save it as my screensaver on my phone. So anytime I wanna get on my phone and fuck around, go on Facebook, go on Instagram, I have to look past my goals to get to the distraction.
Speaker 1:So it's front of mind always, whether it's conscious or unconscious. I have it front of mind when I journal. Sometimes it will be very this than that For our conversation here. I journaled a lot of different things. These are the things we could talk about, but then I'll have something pop up in my mind, boom. So I was thinking about femininity and then I was like, randomly it came to thought when I'm connecting with my masculinity, what does that look like? And I wrote that down just randomly. So if you were to pull out my journal, some of it would make total sense, some of it would. You'd be like this guy schizophrenic. You'd be like this guy has multiple personality.
Speaker 2:He's halfway through one thing People can define it differently, right?
Speaker 1:It's halfway through. One thing, boom. First he's talking about, like Boudoir, photography. Then all of a sudden he's talking about boxing with his friends on a Saturday, and then he's back to this. But it all kind of coalesces into the conversation we're having now.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That makes sense.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:What does yours look like?
Speaker 2:For journaling, yeah, so a combination of different things. So I journal definitely at different times. I'll change, obviously, my goals, right, so I reevaluate those and there's different levels of that. You know you have the 10 year, five year, month, whatever, so that varies. And then also and I also have it in different places that I'm always seeing it as well.
Speaker 2:A lot of my journaling, though I talk as if it's my future self, because I truly believe when you do that your mind believes that it already happened and more. And if that makes sense, you're kind of like teaching yourself to already believe that, so then it's more likely to come true. So, for example, a lot of times if it's a certain dollar amount I want to hit that year, if it's, you know, a certain goal I just have for my studio and what it's going to turn out. A big one was finding a studio. So it's cool to look back at that Because it's always close to around when I want those goals. It's not always exactly right, sometimes it's longer and there's a reason for that. But you know, a big one for me was finding a studio space. So I journaled about that a lot because that was a goal of mine within a year to find, and so I would say I have the studio space that I envision, whatever that look like. I found I have an assistant who is a great asset to the team.
Speaker 2:Journaled about that. Did I think it was ever going to be my brother, you know? But it's so cool to see now. But that's how I talk a lot Now. There's times, I you know, obviously in the present as well, especially if there's certain things on my mind. Sometimes I just pick up my journal and I just start writing because I have so much on it. So I call it like my brain dump, you know. So I just start writing and if somebody look at it they're probably like this girl's crazy, you know, because it's just random thoughts. But it helps me to clear my head. So when I have a lot going on, I'm like I need to just sit down and write and get all of it out. And also I'm like huge in making lists too, so like that could be just even making to-do list as well, like what do?
Speaker 2:I need to get done Because I'm pulled in as a mom, as a wife, as a business owner, pulled in so many million directions that I'm like I need to sit down and I also just like feel so good to check things off.
Speaker 1:So I will do that Right. It does, I agree I have. So, generally speaking, what I'll do is I'll find seven critical tasks that I need to accomplish every single day.
Speaker 2:Yes, so important.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's the number that works for me. Some people have different numbers, Like I notice, if I do eight I usually miss one. If I do six, I have extra time. So those critical tasks are tasks that drive the needle forward on my life. Believe it or not, that's kind of the slogan of this podcast driving the needle forward on your life. So these are. It allows a task list to do, list whatever you want to call it. Andy for sell I don't know if you know who that is, he's a podcaster. He calls it his power list, but it's about being effective.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Effective. So efficiency is one thing. That's how quickly you can accomplish a task. Effectiveness is the task that you pick. So when I do my to-do list, power list, whatever you want to call it, it's about being effective, and then I execute on that effective list as efficiently as possible. You can have somebody that's extremely efficient in business. Right, they're like OK, I'm going to clean the lobby, I'm going to replace the paper towels, I'm going to fill up the water bottles, and they might do that so fast. Great, made no difference in your actual business.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You are not being effective with your time, you're just being efficient with your time Right. So I think that Priority it's priority. Yes, and that's the hardest part, I think, for entrepreneurs, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yes, especially creatives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I imagine that, because it's so, I don't even know how to explain it. It's almost ephemeral, it's almost like outside of what's so grounded, because it's almost metaphysical, for lack of a better explanation.
Speaker 2:And I think when you are creative or you have that entrepreneurial spirit, you get these great ideas. So sometimes it takes you out of that focus. So that's why it's so important for me to write things down, to stay focused, because it's easy to get away from that Because you're so gung-ho and you want to do this, you want to do that, but you have to ground yourself, you have to be able to balance that and it can be hard, depending. I mean, I think everybody's personality is a little bit different.
Speaker 2:That's something I know was a huge struggle for me at first, something I've had to work on a lot, and not that I wasted time, but I have become more efficient and effective with my time because of prioritizing certain things. I would just do things here and there, but then when I really sit down and be like, ok, what do I actually need to get done today? What is most important? Put those things up top of my list, at least get those done. And I have a secondary list, more or less, and it's not like it needs to get done today, but if I have the time to do it, awesome. So I think that's what's important to, like you said, ground yourself into actually doing that.
Speaker 1:I forget where I read this, but it's as simple as putting first things first, right, it's odd to say that and it sounds stupid and obvious, but nobody does it. Let's say you're an entrepreneur, you're working at a company, you're a salesperson Because most people listening to this aren't entrepreneurs they're working in a company. Sure, you may have a critical task, and let's say that critical task is to call on a vendor and tell them that you're increasing the prices on whatever it is that product that you're selling. But you also have other things to do. You're like well, I do need to make coffee for the team. I also need to get my oil change. That's important. So, before you know it, you're doing all the easy things and then the end of the day, yes, that's exactly it you get to the end of it, because you don't want to do that.
Speaker 1:Right, you get to the end of the day and you're like you know what? I just ran out of time, I'm going to have to do this tomorrow, when in reality, if you did it immediately, the rest of the day is easy Get it over with.
Speaker 2:It's easy. And we do it to ourselves and it's like, why do we do it to ourselves? Like you said, just get it over with. But it is, I think, in our brains. We're avoiding it, we void, we're avoiding it and we don't want to do it for maybe multiple reasons. Maybe it's more work, maybe it's something uncomfortable, whatever that may be, and we're like, eh, that can wait. It's like, like you said, just get it done.
Speaker 1:And I do think that that's a skill. It's also it's like a muscle that gets built up Absolutely. As you do harder things, you get better at doing hard things. Yep, like, how do you build discipline? It's very simple Do things that require it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:If you do things that require discipline, you've built up that skill Right. If you do things that require you to be effective, you'll build up that skill If you do the hard thing first, you've calloused the mind, to quote David Goggins. You've calloused the mind to the hard reality of what needs done.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:The first time you do it is really hard. The first time you need to have a difficult conversation with an employee, a difficult conversation with a customer Maybe sometimes you have to fire a customer. The first time you do it like oh, in my case, like you know, the first time I'm getting sued, it's tough. Yeah, it's not going to be the last time, Because my aspirations are big enough, Right. This is just I can't look at this and be like, oh my god, this is so yeah, I'm trying to completely destroy you.
Speaker 2:That's it.
Speaker 1:I'm getting through this, I'm going to do whatever it takes and I'm going to keep moving on and keep growing this thing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So callousing the mind and getting good at doing the hard things first gets you better at doing the hard thing first. So I think that's a big issue that people have and that's why they're not effective. They may be efficient, they're not effective because they haven't built up the muscles to be effective and they're not doing anything to build the muscles to be effective, right, and it just continues to deteriorate and before you know it, x amount of years has passed, your business hasn't grown, you haven't gotten married, your marriage sucks.
Speaker 1:Your marriage sucks, you're out of shape, you're overweight, you don't eat right, you have diabetes. I mean, it's the constant, it's not doing the hard shit that turns your life into misery. It brings you to hell, right. It literally brings you to hell. You want to live in hell? Don't do anything hard, right? I don't think living in utopia, living in heaven, if you will, on earth, is a result of having no hardship. It's a result of having hardship and tackling it out of the gate, absolutely Doing it immediately. Then, all of a sudden, life becomes way easier. And what would crush you?
Speaker 2:And you also can appreciate it. I think that's huge is being able to look back at that. When you don't go through those hardships, when you don't, when somebody's always there to catch you when you fall, you can't appreciate it. You don't even know what it's like. And that has so much value.
Speaker 1:I agree, I think it's a lot of overlap there. I just wanted to talk about, like, so you journal. I just wanted to touch on this because some people they might not journal, which I think they should. But how you're describing journaling is how I kind of do the visualization. So, like I, I visualize this, I'm so familiar with this and I think you kind of gravitate to what you're familiar with and and evidence of that is like somebody that identifies as a fat dude. Even if they lose weight, they'll eventually probably get fat again because they're identifying oh, I'm just this fat guy. I you have to become familiar with what it is. You're trying to live the dream you're trying to create. So what I would do and I still do this and I do it like this is I'm nutty man, but like I have a sauna downstairs, I'll be baking in the sauna and when, like, every single ounce of me is like you got to get out of here, like I'm actually starting to have a panic attack. Maybe that's too much, but then I'll sit down and be like I'm staying for five more minutes and I'm going to visualize it, cause if I can focus and get familiar with what I want in here. I can do it out there easily. I can't tell you how many times I visualize me getting out of my truck.
Speaker 1:I'm walking to the gym. I grabbed the metal handle. I can feel the metal handle in my hand. I open it up. Tracy's sitting at the front desk. Kathleen's over here. Lucas is over here. Anthony's talking to a customer. I walk by his chiropractic room. I see people getting adjusted.
Speaker 1:I walk through the gym. The gym's busy. I can see the flags on the wall. I got two more flags over here. I walk in the back. I have my backpack over my right shoulder. I know exactly what I'm wearing. I'm wearing a rogue t-shirt. I'm wearing black shorts. I'm wearing my on shoes. I get to the back. I open up the back door. Three trainers are training. I have a customer coming in. We have four customers going at the same time.
Speaker 1:I visualize that so many times that when it happened and it's what I live every day it's not new, right? It's like I've been here before a million times. Now, I don't know if that's woo, I don't know if that's new age. I don't know if it's bullshit. I don't think it is but I can tell you that it's worked for me yeah, now what I've been visualizing is the new facility. It's 25,000 square feet. I can see exactly how it looks. I'm starting to see OK, this is what we're going to go through to actually get the parking lot. This is what we're going to go through. This is what the front entrance is going to look like. This is how this is going to look. This is how this is going to look.
Speaker 1:And I'm building this environment in my head, so when it happens, I don't know what to do. I already have such a clear vision. Now I just take that vision and work backwards. Right, I have it. Now I work backwards. What's the necessary step? Getting the building for the right price. What's the next step? I need to find a contractor that's willing to do this. What's the next step? I need to find somebody to hold the note. What's the next step? I need to buy enough equipment so I can find the ultimate goal, get familiar with it, work backwards from there, and then I can put the effective tasks necessary and then do it efficiently. It's almost like I start with the goal, oddly enough, and I work backwards from there. It's not like I'm starting here and I work forwards. I start at the conclusion and I work backwards.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:And that's how a good way is. Somebody is listening. Oh, I don't know how to journal. Start with what you want. Start there, go backwards. What are the steps necessary? How many customers do you need? What's the cash flow analysis? What's the debt that you can carry? Whatever your business is, whatever it looks like, whatever your life is Because a life is a reflection of your habits, a life is a reflection of your effective tasks. How do you set that up? In a way, you know what you want, work backwards from there. Now you have your to-do list, now you have the things necessary to execute on. That's how you can start journaling.
Speaker 1:It's a very it's almost a simple concept. But everybody thinks and when you're building a business, you build it from the ground up. You have a foundation, just like building a house. But sometimes, when you build the house right, you need the blueprints. You don't just show up with a whole bunch of shit and you're like, all right, fuck it, let's build a house. You have the blueprints necessary and you work backwards from the blueprints. Okay, how do I get to this point?
Speaker 2:That's exactly what journaling is. It's hard to get somewhere where you don't know where you're going. When you don't know where you're going.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so exactly. And I and, like I said, I'm a huge advocate on journaling but I do visualization as well and that's something I learned a lot to actually previously to doing photography, which was huge for me with birth work. So that really helped me because that's something I taught a lot of my clients, and then for myself as well, because for my son, I gave birth to him at home, without a midwife, without a doctor or anything. It was just my husband and I. That's what I wanted. I did my own prenatal care, but the whole time, throughout my pregnancy, I was very, very in tune with my son. It was the most amazing experience ever.
Speaker 2:So huge advocate for that, for women to do that, and that's part of how that ties into Boudoir as well, with, you know, getting in touch with I call it your divine feminine, and I think so many women are out of touch with that, and a lot of it, I believe, has to do with birth personally, which that can be a whole other conversation. But I visualize that, exactly where I was going to give birth to him, what it was going to look like, and it happened. I mean, people say birth is so unpredictable, but you can. You can your mind's so powerful that you can manifest that?
Speaker 1:So when you say divine feminine, what does that mean?
Speaker 2:So just being more in touch with your body in a more spiritual, the spiritual realm. I believe that women get the most in touch with that when they do go through the birthing process not to get too much into terminology and what all that looks like but there is a part of birth that's called transition and that is like the peak of labor, where it is the most intense and quote unquote painful, because there's things you can do for it not to really be painful. But again, that's a whole other thing. But you really do have an out of body experience If you're left alone to birth how you want to and you're not being interrupted from people touching you with like probing you, whatever what they do at a lot of hospitals and things like that or telling you what position you need to be in.
Speaker 2:It's you being in touch with your body and doing what your body is leading you to do so. For example, when I gave birth to my son, I really didn't know what was going on around me. I felt I was like out of body experience, literally, and it's like you're in this. It's like time stands still and you're witnessing everything and you remember, but you don't remember. At the same time it's like you go into a different realm. It's really crazy. I always say that you leave your body to be able to connect with your baby spirit and bring your baby earth side.
Speaker 1:So it's almost like you're ultra present.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:For lack of a better explanation. Yeah, ultra present. It's almost like you're not aware of time.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And that's there's. Obviously I can't give birth, right, but there are certain circumstances for me, and maybe this is how this connects, and then we'll tie it back to photography. When somebody says because I was thinking about this, like how do I get in touch with my masculinity? And part of it, it's hard to explain, but to me it's a timeless and visceral experience that I have with other men, participating in things that make us, while not uniquely male, it makes us. It's what men have been doing since in time and more, Getting in time right.
Speaker 1:Exactly so for me. I was thinking I'm like when do I feel most in touch with my for your term, I guess it would be divine masculine but when do I feel like I'm really grounded in my masculinity? And it's when I'm training martial arts, whether it's jujitsu, whether I'm boxing. I'm present with other guys, so present that I'm not even looking at the clock, we're just moving through space. I might be thinking about the actual activity that I'm doing, but it's such a visceral experience. It's like you could take this experience out from right now. And men have done this 1,000 years ago, they did it 1,500 years ago, they did it 10,000 years ago. And it's like, regardless of what's going on outside whether it's we're worried about AI, we're worried about the Ukraine war, we're worried about World War III all of that dissipates and disappears and.
Speaker 1:I'm just totally connected with the guys that I'm around, ultra present and thinking in a way, but also just experiencing. It's almost for lack of a better explanation when people say they have a religious experience. I imagine it's a similar thing where you're just ultra present in that moment in doing what men have done forever. So not to introduce too much of outside information, but there's a guy, jack Donovan. I randomly stumbled on his books because I called this podcast a more complete beast. Turns out this guy wrote a book a more complete beast. I'm like shit, like somebody reached out to me. They're like how fucking dare he still is to book title and I was like dude, I don't even know what this book title is. Reached out to him. He was cool with us using this. He's like understand, I'm a controversial figure, besides the point.
Speaker 1:But he said that there's qualities to masculinity strength, courage, mastery and honor. Those are the four tenants that he says are part of the I guess, for your word, divine masculine, but he calls it the four manly tenants. So when I'm training martial arts, I'm displaying physical strength, I'm displaying courage, because that's tough. Somebody's gonna punch you in the head. You have to be courageous to do this. Obviously it's under controlled variables. We're not giving each other brain damage. Mastery, because you're acquiring skills, and then honor, because there's certain things you aren't gonna do. If I'm losing, I'm not gonna kick my partner in the nuts. There's certain things that are honorable when you're training martial arts. So I think he's spot on with those four manly tenants and I do think it's the ultra present nature of training martial arts that allows me to connect with my masculinity, to tie it back to femininity and bourgeois Hope. I'm even saying it right Bourgeois.
Speaker 1:Bourgeois Tying it all together. Do you find that when you're taking, when you're creating this experience, you're taking these photographs? That creates the environment necessary for women to be ultra present maybe not to the same extreme as birth, but they're creating an ultra present connection with femininity?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And that's what we're trying to create. That's what it's about.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Perfect and I understand it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's one of those things that sometimes like it's hard to explain. It's deep Right.
Speaker 1:It's religious in a way.
Speaker 2:And I think it's sometimes uncomfortable for people to talk about because they're like, like you said, it's kind of like, oh, that's woo, blah, blah, blah, but ultimately people want that and it's about being more connected with yourself and there's different levels of that.
Speaker 2:Like I said, I mainly work with women, so I say femininity, but women are also, there is masculine side to us and there's feminine side to men and it's important for us to get in touch with that as well.
Speaker 2:Obviously and that's a whole other conversation, but it's so important People are so attitud with themselves and we talked about already intuition. People don't even I've had people tell me what do you mean? What is that? They've never even experienced that for themselves and I think that's a big part of that is that they're not in tune with themselves and you even know who they are or who they want to be, and just internally more. And, like I said, I was able to really connect with that the most when I became a mom and when I experienced that and really started to go down that path and educating myself on that, and then, like I said, even more so when I experienced my birth at home and since then I've never been more connected with my body, with my spirit, with everything, and it's helped me to be able to guide my clients as well, because it's not just I'm talking all this talk. I've experienced it, so I know it's real.
Speaker 1:Right, it's not a new concept either, because some people might listen to this and think this is a new age. Not at all. I can't remember for this. Aristotle, plato, socrates One of them called it the daemon. It's the internal voice. Right, it is like, and for more of like, a Christian base, and I don't know if this is what an apologist or somebody more well versed would say. But when you pray, you talk to God. When you have intuition, god talks back. Now, I don't know if that's always true and I don't know if it's true at all, but I do think what you're doing is you're connecting with something that is spaceless, timeless and important. You're connecting with something that's not fake. It's the most real thing you can connect with, and I know that sounds like a lot of platitudes, but when you experience it, you're like this is the realest thing I can connect with now.
Speaker 2:You see clearer and you know People. I think society today it's less and less because of all the distractions, because of our phones, like we follow people, we wanna be like other people, which there's nothing wrong with looking up to people, but people were so out of touch with that and where I believe, years and years ago this wasn't like some woo-woo stuff to people, because it's like I believe majority of people were connected with that because they lived simpler lives, they didn't have those distractions right and it's just kind of has gotten away from our culture, I believe, in so many ways and I think you're right.
Speaker 1:It's the noise. You can't listen to that internal voice. You can't listen to that intuition. If, at any given moment, phone rings gotta pick it up. Or oh, I have this impulse to check social media, I better check. I have this impulse to look at my email. For people that are entrepreneurial or high up in a company, I gotta look at my email right now Sometimes and tying it all the way back to business. Having that listening to that internal voice on with your business and developing it and growing it takes some time. Maybe it's not every day, maybe you can't devote to that, but some time of quiet, some time of no distraction.
Speaker 1:Some time where you can just sit or run in my case but there's nothing else you can do but be with your thoughts.
Speaker 2:Whatever you need to do to truly clear your mind and I don't think people do that enough or do it at all. And when you're in business especially, you get up in the hustle and all of that and you're starting to reach those goals and you forget to do that and you're like shit Cause you're like where am I going? And sometimes you start to go down a path that you never even initially wanted to go down and it's going away from what your initial mission was and you have to like or maybe you're changing. You know that can change too. You don't say you set goals or you have a vision. You know it might've been that at first and you change and your business changes and there's nothing wrong with that, but I think it, like you said, it is important to constantly keep doing that, to keep that clear mind and know exactly what you want and what you're going after.
Speaker 1:To draw it even more down to something that's measurable. It's like marketing. Sometimes, when you're really and I'm guilty of this right now when you're super busy, incomes, good top line revenues, better than ever you forget to market or I don't have the time. You know I got so much other shit going on. But the marketing is how you're planting the seeds that eventually is going to sprout up into a plant and you can cultivate that fruit. Like, if you look at all my social, I haven't posted shit in so long, which is wrong Now.
Speaker 2:I'm super.
Speaker 1:I'm super busy right now, but if I want to get even busier, if I want to get to the next stage, I need to continue to market. So I was supposed to meet with a guy at 9am today, but he just I don't know, he just didn't show up.
Speaker 2:Well, here's your guy at 9am.
Speaker 1:But that's what I'm saying, Like you have to. If you can't do it, you got to find somebody to do it, because the marketing Well I was just going to say outsourcing.
Speaker 2:Once you get a certain point in your business. It's hard at first, right Cause you don't have the money to do that. But that is so important because you can't keep up with everything. So when you get to that point where you're making decent money and you can pay somebody to do it, yes, 100%, and that's why there we go, this kid here.
Speaker 1:That's why it's like, like you said, it's so to bring it even further back to entrepreneurship. Yeah, you wear a lot of hats. When you first started business, you're wearing every single hat. So, in your case, you're the photographer, you're the biller, you're the marketer, you're the blah blah, blah. Well, at some point, if you want to continue to grow and scale, you got to take a hat off and put it on someone else's head, and that takes the level of trust, it takes the level of humility right.
Speaker 1:To be like, hey, maybe this person can do it even better than me, or at the very least they could do it to an extent that's going to allow me to grow the business, even if it's 80%, if 80% is good enough for you to focus on the other things that are again effective. They can do things that allow you to be more effective with your time. And that's tough and that's one of the hardest things At first. The hardest thing of entrepreneurship is finding the effective tasks. Then, when you get to a certain point, it becomes hard, because then you have to find other people to do tasks for you.
Speaker 2:And it's hard, even if you're at a point where you're okay with it's not so much the hold of the power of doing it and it's hard to let go, which that's something I did struggle with. But it's more than that for me. A struggle for me was finding somebody that's going to do a good job right, that is actually good or is reliable or is going to stay Like that's tough.
Speaker 1:Very tough, that's. I mean it's funny you bring that up. I got a whole little story, but that's very tough to find somebody that can do it and will stick around for the long haul and cause. You might invest a ton of time, effort and resources into somebody and then they're gone Like oh shit, that's part of the risk you take. Business is risk, right. It's a huge risk when you decide to be an entrepreneur, to step outside of the conventional and do something unique.
Speaker 2:I will never go back to working for corporate America, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean once you taste it and you get the success you can't right, it's hard and it's a lifestyle honestly in a way, but I wouldn't trade it for anything else. Love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it too. It's every, even the hard stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:My best thing ever. It's the biggest class of self-discovery and self-mastery I've ever done in my life.
Speaker 2:And that's huge. I've grown so much. I think that's a huge part of it as well. Obviously, I love not answering to anybody. I love making my own schedule, especially as a mom. I think that's huge. It's awesome that I can be at all my kids' things that, like, I don't, you know, it's just. It's really nice in that regard. And also, literally, I love what I do, you know, so it's not work to me. I mean there's, like you said, it's hard and it's long hours and stuff, but I love it.
Speaker 2:But what is really huge is the growth I've had personally, and I don't think I would have had that growth if I wanna have started a business, because it's almost, I mean, maybe in a way, but you're forced to or you're not gonna be successful. I think that's what sets one of the biggest things that sets apart successful business owners versus ones that aren't, is that, like you have to be willing to grow, you have to work on yourself, you can have all the right things lined up, but if you're not like working on your own personal issues, whatever that may be, that's different for everybody. I truly believe that's what causes people to like. You know, they say a lot of people only last in business, like less than five years. Once you get past five years, you're usually pretty good at that point, but I think that's what sets those people apart.
Speaker 1:I agree it's thinking about it, not, as I guess, work-life balance, but more work-life harmony. Yes, right, definitely heard that before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's true. Yeah, if things, if you're not working on yourself like if I were to try to run a gym and I'm fat, I have type two diabetes, I'm weak as hell, I don't eat right, I don't sleep right and I don't lift weights how can I effectively run a gym? I can't. Not only will I look like a fool to the people that walk in, I won't feel like it, but I'll feel like a fraud and then I'm not gonna act. If you look good, you feel good, you perform well. I've always said that. And if I show up and I don't look good and I don't feel good, how am I gonna perform well? So sometimes, like you said, working on yourself, if you're completely stuck and let's say you have a business that's completely stuck maybe the first thing is working on yourself.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So we are coming up on an hour and a half so I wanted to talk about this a little bit. So obviously you have the Facebook group and that's a good funnel for you to get people into photography. I think that would be great, honestly, for my business, for a gym getting like a health community together and being like, hey, outside of just this positive experience you have, if you want something else? We have a brick and mortar store, we have personal trainers, we have a 24 hour gym.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I gotta figure out how that would look in my business, and I think that's a great idea. What about outside of the Facebook group, For instance, like Instagram, TikTok? I know that you have a guy that does that for you. How do you kind of try to, I guess, create traction, or how do you get business from those platforms?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So Instagram and TikTok is definitely more new. As my assistant, who's my brother, I hired him recently, so just trying to get more followers on there. We're definitely trying to show myself more so for Rails, for example, when Elijah and I create content, we do. I'm sure you've seen Rails where it's like the voiceovers and stuff that are trending.
Speaker 2:Right, we do some of those, but a lot of them we do our own, which Elijah's taught me is good because it shows you're authentic and people wanna hear your voice. So you don't see that a lot on Instagram. Like I follow these people, I'm like I don't even know what their voice sounds like. You know what I mean. They're always using voiceovers for things. So, just making it more personal, I try to go live on Instagram sometimes, things like that, so different ways in that. But, like I said, that's newer.
Speaker 2:I also have a pretty large email marketing as well, so I have people can subscribe to my email list. So I'll send out different emails on things that may be just body positive, empowering things that just to help people through different things like that, tips and tricks on stuff like that and then also for them to just get to know me more right, but then also in that I'm putting my cells in there, I'm putting testimonials, different things like that. So that's mainly what I use marketing-wise. And then also just community. Honestly, I mean, I have a lot of connections from doing marketing with the company I used to work for, so I still go to a lot of events and different things like that. Just try to get my name out there. Make different connections. Now making more connections to the Liges, since he's involved with modeling and things like that, so he's helped to bring other people into the mix to make connections with. To just get my name out there, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, what you're doing is kind of circling back to the very beginning. You're creating familiarity, so when somebody walks in, they feel like they know you.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Even through, even though if it's not in the Facebook group. You're also doing it by just being present in the camera. So they're like, oh yeah, I know Mallory, like I've seen her a million times, so when they come in they aren't like totally taken aback, like I don't know this girl, who is she? You're collecting an email list and then delivering value, just like Nathaniel Morton said, it's a value, it's a value add email, so why would you delete it? And then, ultimately, you want that to eventually lead to a consult, that you get them on the phone, make them feel even more comfortable. You get them in, you close the sale.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Perfect. Yeah, it's a great. I think it's a great funnel and clearly it's working. Yeah, way better than what I tried my first year because I made 12 grand. But other than that, how do we get a hold of you? And, yeah, how do we get into a photography with you, like, how do we?
Speaker 2:get this? Yes, how do we?
Speaker 1:book this. What's the next step? Somebody listens to this. They're local, they want to get into this photography Sure.
Speaker 2:So I highly recommend joining our group because even if you're not sure about doing a session, just hearing what we talked about just being part of that group, even if you never want to do a session, it's a great thing to be a part of. So it's called Her H-E-R by Mallory Scalise on Facebook. It is women only, and then to book a phone consult with me, you can go to my website. It's wwwhermalloryscalisephotographycom. There's a link to book a 15 minute free phone consult with me, just to even talk about a session.
Speaker 2:Let you know what's all involved, because it's like a six hour ordeal, full day of pampering. You get a 60 minute massage, you get hair and makeup done oh wow, client closet. So I want to make it as stress free as possible for my clients, because words are stressful, so they can come to the session literally empty handed and we're going to take care of you. So it's a really cool experience. But that's how you can get ahold of me to set up a phone call and see if it's something that you want to do and we're a good fit for you.
Speaker 1:Perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Wrap this thing up Ready On three One, two, three.
Speaker 2:I was like wait, I don't want to work. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:Again, guys, this is a more complete beast podcast. If you learn something, if you like the podcast, make sure you leave a five star review and share this podcast with somebody who needs to hear it. I'll talk to you in the next episode.