Mind Muscle with Simon de Veer
Mind Muscle with Simon de Veer
Urban Legends of Raw Milk and GLP Drug Trends
Ever wondered how GLP drugs like Ozempic are changing not just waistlines but the entire food industry? Tune into our latest episode of the Mind Muscle Podcast where we promise you'll learn how these medications are influencing consumer habits and even the market performance of companies like Dannon. We tackle the common misconception that muscle loss during weight loss is unique to GLP drug users, explaining it's a consequence of any caloric deficit. Stay intrigued as we explore how food makers might pivot to meet these evolving demands by boosting the protein and nutrient content in their offerings.
Is raw milk really the magic elixir it's often touted to be? We scrutinize the claims of raw milk enthusiasts who swear by its benefits for weight loss, gut health, and lactose intolerance. In this episode, we highlight the cultural trends among its supporters, and question the “natural-is-always-better” mindset prevalent among urban influencers. Shifting gears, we bring a scientific perspective into the conversation, emphasizing the critical role of pasteurization in eradicating harmful bacteria and ensuring food safety, particularly in underserved areas. This balanced discussion aims to debunk myths while providing insights into the different types of milk within varied social and economic contexts.
What if everything you thought about health debates and sensationalized news was missing the point? We highlight the importance of sticking to fundamental habits like eating minimally processed foods and getting enough sleep amidst media-driven hysteria over hyperinflation, bank collapses, and conflicts. Plus, we dive into an eye-opening study on Spain's high life expectancy, despite high rates of alcohol, tobacco, and cocaine use, hinting at cultural or lifestyle factors that might be at play. Concluding on an optimistic note, we discuss the simple yet impactful actions that can improve both our communities and personal longevity, reinforcing that mental and physical growth are interconnected. Keep lifting, learning, and growing with us on this enlightening journey.
Producer: Thor Benander
Editor: Luke Morey
Intro Theme: Ajax Benander
Intro: Timothy Durant
For more, visit Simon at The Antagonist
Welcome to the Mind Muscle Podcast. Here's your host, simon DeVere, and welcome back to Mind Muscle, the place where we study the history, science and philosophy behind everything in health and fitness today. Study the history, science and philosophy behind everything in health and fitness today. I'm Simon DeVere, and there's nothing new except all that has been forgotten. All right, so you should well, if you listened to last episode, you know one of the things that we're going to talk about today meant to get to it last time. I want to talk about the culture war coming for milk. After I get through my thoughts on just the latest thing that's going on, we'll just kind of sum up milk in general. This can kind of be a lot simpler than I think the way it's presented, but I also want to touch base on some of the changing trends that are going on with food choices from ozempic just a topic we've already been discussing a fair bit here. And then actually, I want to finish up actually on some tips for longevity, focusing on, I guess, what we can maybe call the spanish paradox no one's calling it that yet, but, um, we have some interesting data that maybe is revealing some keys for longevity that you might find interesting. So as long as I don't over talk the other things, I came here for that we will get to that one last today. But confession right up front I am exhausted through my daughter's birthday party this weekend. So shout out to any parents who know what that's like First man on the beach, last one to leave a lot of setup, a lot of teardown, got home to a lot of assembly, so not going to lie, being in this nice dark room where it's quiet, kind of feel like I should go to sleep right now. If I was a listener of this podcast, that's probably what I would do for the sake of my health. But no, anyway, I do have some topics that I especially the culture war coming from milk I've been chomping at the bit to get at this one and at least get my opinion out there. So yeah, I do want to jump in. But yeah, even though that's the one I'm really excited to talk about today, I do want to jump in. But yeah, even though that's the one I'm really excited to talk about today, I do want to update just a trend or a story that we've already been talking about here and that is Ozempic. So obviously you'll remember when we were talking about this in the business world, a lot of the food brands were getting concerned that consumers would be changing habits if they were using well, not only Ozempic but any of the GLP drugs. There are going to be more and more of those coming online. So, yeah, I should probably just call them GLP drugs at this point, not the brand name Ozempic At this point.
Speaker 1:30 million Americans have taken some form of the new weight loss drugs and they again remember how these work. They're essentially reducing cravings. Some of the weight loss drugs in the past have tried to alter your metabolism and do other things. These are actually working on specific regions in the brain that decrease your cravings. And then again, interesting, not only for food some people are having success beating other addictions smoking, drugs, things of that nature. But anyway, 30 million Americans have taken some form of these drugs and billions of dollars have been wiped out of the market caps of food companies, namely Nestle. Nestle's taken about a three and a half percent hit. They are ascribing it to the changing habits coming from their own earnings calls and statements. But interesting to me was actually not. Everybody has seen a downtrend with the rise of these drugs, and so actually yogurt has been one of the few beneficiaries. So Dannon has actually seen increased demand to the shifting market trends. They didn't specifically market themselves to GLP users, but they are getting the benefit of the trend. So again, people are. This is reducing their cravings. When you are on a GLP drug, it is important that you get things like protein and nutrients in good quantities, with relatively low calories, because you're not going to be very hungry and your appetite just isn't going to go and drive you to get that nutrition the way you would probably have been used to.
Speaker 1:So, also kind of touching up on one of the things we already talked about, one of the big issues people are citing with the use of these drugs is muscle loss. We talked about that in detail. I actually think that's people kind of overreacting. There's going to be muscle loss every time you get into a caloric deficit, so that's not surprising. The studies that we have show very, very similar rates of muscle loss, whether using Ozempic, a GLP drug rather, or just a regular caloric deficit. So anyway, it's always a problem that you're going to lose muscle when you are in a caloric deficit.
Speaker 1:So it's actually a good, solid choice that consumers are making. We can kind of give people because I know I talk a lot of crap about the stupid choices we make. This is actually people making the right choice and making a good reaction. But the flip side and the business coverage of the sector is kind of already reflecting this is that food makers are going to start changing some of the options that they are offering, the big trends that they are going to be pushing out in their ultra processed versions of you know, good foods. They're probably going to push the protein counts, they're probably going to pump the nutrient quantities and they're probably going to reduce the portions. Jaded part of me thinks that's going to just kind of increase profit margins, since they'll be able to downsize, probably charge the same price or even more if it has a cool new rebrand on it. But again, jaded part of me, this is kind of new for them to actually be behind the trend. The GLP drugs really did seem to catch them unprepared. Normally they pay for a slew of studies, highlight the benefits of some reductive thing, and then the products are already ready to go by the time you're reading about that thing in the papers they paid to put it out in. But yeah, so they're a little bit behind the eight ball on this one, but what you are probably going to see is a new generation of ultra processed foods that are going to appeal to GLP users specifically, but people just use living a healthy lifestyle broadly.
Speaker 1:So my take on all this is you know, stick to yogurt. What's up, danon? Do you guys ever want to? You know, shout out. My brand is actually Faye. It's that Greek yogurt I like, that they have a lot of protein and that it tells you how to pronounce it on the bottle, but also that that actually mostly, mostly for the protein. But anyway, yogurt guys, first one's free. If you guys want me to keep plugging it, um, you're going to have to pay me. Uh yeah, but obviously I'm a broken record on this and I know it. But stick to your minimally processed foods.
Speaker 1:There's really no reason why, if you are calorically restricting, using a GLP drug or not, why you should be favoring ultra processed foods. I know that they're not out yet, but there's going to be just a whole new slew of products that are going to be engineered for people with these concerns to purchase. So, same rules. I would say stick to the perimeter of the grocery store. That's where you're going to find all the food. Maybe I'm being a little bit jaded. I'm being a little bit jaded.
Speaker 1:There could be a net positive that if these ultra-processed food makers are moving away from the techniques that they have been using to willfully cause people to overeat, yeah, that would be good. But clearly you can probably hear the skepticism. I'm not going to hold my breath that they're still going to need to design and engineer products so that they can continue to grow their earnings. That's what's expected of them, and so I would expect nothing less. But I guess I can also just keep arguing against it, because even if they did, they stopped using these techniques to engineer foods to be overeaten.
Speaker 1:The truth is, even if the nutrient quantities, say, matched a minimally processed food source, they can match the amounts of nutrients, but they still can't match the context of the food. So if you're just eating minimally processed foods, you're still going to be way more likely to absorb the nutrients that are in the foods you know. Obviously you just if you can't replicate the context, we can't make sure that all those good things are bioavailable and in the position to be absorbed when you eat them. So even if there was a theoretical ultra processed food that matched an apple, on all the measurable properties of the apple, these reductive properties that we would talk about how many calories, how many vitamins, all the nutrients. You're still going to miss some of the context.
Speaker 1:And so again and I've talked about this this is not like a purity based thing. We're not talking 100%. I live in the real world. Sometimes these things can make your life easier. Sometimes you're busy or tired, I know what that's about. But these things can make your life easier. Sometimes you're busy or tired, I know what that's about. But you're still going to aim to keep this to roughly 80% of the time minimally processed foods, and outside of that you're going to be all right If we have a little bit of tolerance. Human beings are fortunately very malleable, flexible and we can seek out novel things. So, yeah, if, if 80 of the time, you've got the minimally processed food, it's really not going to be a big deal. If you've got one or two things here and there, no point to be, uh, you know, pushing any sort of purity based.
Speaker 1:But again, call, call me skeptical, but I think we are going to see sort of the latest iteration of nutritionism, this idea that we've talked about a fair bit here, but that the value of a food can be communicated in the sum total of the reductive nutrients, vitamins, that we can explain it that way, that we can engineer food products that way. Again, I am more in that camp of a more holistic approach, which should raise red flags since the alternative new age medicine. People say that a lot, but no, what we just mean with holistic is just considering the entire context of the food, the soil that it comes from, all of those things. That's going to be a lot more effective actually at getting you high quality foods than than taking the reductive approach Just on. On balance, it's a much better heuristic get you there a lot more reliably. Anyway, I'm double talking now, so I just want to go ahead and move on before we just completely beat that dead.
Speaker 1:Last week I never did get to talk about the culture war moving to milk, and so again I was lucky just to be in Los Angeles. Well, just not that lucky, but lucky in a sense to talk about this. We had a natural grocery store down in Venice Rossum it was raided over a decade ago selling raw milk. So now this is kind of, you know, recirculated and we're back to the raw milk thing now. And but this time, you know, culture was obviously always there to an extent, but the culture was much more developed now. So now that it's kicking back through this time, you know it's, I guess I'll just say, garnering a little bit more attention, and I think a lot of people are going to be coming into this with motivated reasoning because it is aligning itself with the culture war. So I want to take just a less emotional and more of a science-based approach on what the value, or lack thereof, may be with raw milk versus pasteurized milk, and then we'll even jump later into oat milk and milk replacements.
Speaker 1:Just kind of try to sum up, we'll try to make this one actually just kind of a standalone on everything you need to know about milk. Admittedly, that's just a funny one to me and I didn't even prep this part. But you go into the milk aisle now and you look around and just the number of options that that is literally when I start to feel like an old man and like get off my lawn is what do we need with all of this? Um, but anyway, what? What do the proponents say? Let's, let's at least consider their arguments, because this could just be an old man take with, with me not approving of all of these milk varieties.
Speaker 1:So first we'll talk about raw milk, the proponents of raw milk. Sorry, one more little bit of editorializing. Before I say what they say, can we just say who they are? Because this is kind of the culture war component. What I'm seeing right now with the raw milk proponents is to me they are kind of a manifestation of horseshoe theory. These are popular influencers, but it's that strange space online where goop and q anon, you know, overlap, and a lot of their followers, I don't think, know that they overlap because they would probably view each other, uh so skeptically. I think if they knew the other person was buying these arguments, they'd probably see themselves out. But what their shared bond is in this, I think, is that they're both kind of pursuing a libertarian, alternative medicine magical thinking bias that both groups exhibit very regularly, and so when they're talking about politics they don't really overlap, but when they talk about health and fitness, there actually is a strange overlap. So anyway, that's who. What do they say?
Speaker 1:One of the claims would be that it helps with weight loss. They would claim that it can improve gut health and lactose intolerance. It also has a better taste and texture and, of course, people have a right to consume better, because once you process it and everything, that's when the dairy becomes harder to tolerate. So, yeah, I'll be done with the horseshoe aspect of this in a second. But you guys have no idea how many times I have been delayed going to work because she is holding a fundraiser for a prominent Democrat and I just want to throw her under the bus again that she and Alex Jones, who represents the exact polar opposite end of our political spectrum, sell the exact same supplements in terms of chemicals under different names.
Speaker 1:No-transcript. I'm not even interested in picking up any of their other claims. I just find that these are just very funny and strange bedfellows. I know that if I was in either of their camps, that overlap would at least give me a little bit of skepticism in what exactly I was listening to. But admittedly I am not in either of those camps and also, admittedly, shame on me. These are ad hominem attacks. I'm merely attacking the source right now and, yeah, that's why I generally try to stay away from doing what I just did, which is kind of speaking my truth and how I feel about these people, but we're going to attack the arguments, not their celebrity and any of my feelings about them as how they run their businesses. But yeah, forget all that.
Speaker 1:What does science say? Not, simon, this is science. So what science says about pasteuration is that milk can contain salmonella E coli and other harmful bacteria. Sidebar, sorry, I did grow up on a farm. We didn't farm, but I lived in rural areas and to me it does feel like people who don't grow up around nature. They're either terrified of it or they think it's like a Disney movie and natural always equals good. This is something I think this, this group of influencers I'm talking about, kind of subscribes to. A lot of these people grew up in cities and they kind of fetishize, you know, certain aspects of natural spaces and I think to them nature equals good. Anyway, simon's done editorializing. So, yeah, science on pasteurization. So milk has salmonella E coli, some other harmful bacteria. When you pasteurize it. It allows for longer shelf life, wider availability and safety, reduces waste and then improves the distribution. I'm going to editorialize one more time.
Speaker 1:I had a very strong anti-enriched flower position for many years and then I think it was at my daughter's first physical at one year old she was low on iron and obviously one year olds they don't have a lot of teeth, so a lot of the obvious things you would put into a diet if it happened to you as an adult weren't really options. So it was funny because I just had that lightning bolt moment where this thing I had railed against for years suddenly I understood why it existed, that there had been other times in the very recent history where malnutrition and not getting enough nutrients was the problem. So there was both a good reason for me, simon the adult, to not eat enriched flour, while I could also understand exactly why it existed and what purpose it was serving. So I think that can directly kind of tie back to milk here, because we live in a culture of just insane abundance. So I don't think people would necessarily think of how increasing the distribution of something would have been a very key choice that we would have made in order just to get people the calories that they need.
Speaker 1:I don't live in one anymore, but I used to live in an area of the country that was called a food desert. There were parts of rural North Carolina that would fit the bill. There were parts of rural Montana that would fit the bill, and so for many of the people listening maybe it's not an issue for you either, but food distribution is a very big issue, particularly in non-wealthy zip codes. So this whole discussion, to be kind of bluntly honest, if you're even thinking about any of these milk choices, I kind of already know a lot about the zip code, the lifestyle and just the social context that you're existing in, no matter how you might feel or define it. It does tell me a lot, quite frankly. But anyway, I do need to stop editorializing.
Speaker 1:So the nutritional differences between raw milk and pasteurized milk science says that they are minute. Raw milk does contain some more enzymes, but apparently they aren't beneficial to human health. Science says taste isn't a health benefit. Maybe we could argue that one. Natural doesn't mean safe. I'm with science there. So not entirely an individual choice. This is going to kind of come up on some pandemic stuff, but apparently drinking raw milk can spread bird flu. So I guess we can kind of make the comparison to secondhand smoke, where you clearly have the freedom to put the smoke into your lungs. Nobody cares about that. But it's the smoke that you're putting out into the environment that people care about that, but it's the smoke that you're putting out into the environment that people care about. I do think sometimes Americans have a hard time understanding that, that most people don't care about what they're doing to themselves. They only care about if they have to be party to it in some way. Or maybe that was just my experience of recent events, but yeah so I don't know. Maybe that one's probably debatable in the world we live in. I'm going to still go with science there.
Speaker 1:So you know, sometimes, even too, in this day and age, some people think of health officials as just a front for woke policy. You know me, though. I love definitions, and for me that's a term more and more. I don't know what it means, or I didn't even know if I was going to be this blunt. If a black person tells me or says the word woke, I know what they mean. If a white person says it, I have to actually ask them what do you mean? Because it could mean anything from political correctness to climate, to how they feel about gender issues the black person's talking about woke. It would usually be them telling me stay woke. And it would usually be after me saying something that signified I understood some of the systemic challenges that you know related to their experience. So, yeah, I don't know how health officials can actually be woke. I know that's a common critique, but this is only a one-way conversation. If anybody's saying that, people that has made affording homes for people my age difficult, and I guess again, that's just kind of where my confusion with this term I know everybody feels like they know what's going on throwing words like that around, but I don't actually know what that means.
Speaker 1:Oh and then last point I know I've editorialized a fair bit in here, but the points I have from science on raw milk. So, between 2009 and 2014, relatively small sample size, but raw milk and cheese were consumed by let's see so 3.2 and 1.6% of the US population respectively, and they accounted for 96% of illness from dairy contamination. So let's just stick with the milk 3.2% of Americans had consumed raw milk and that 3.2% accounts for roughly 90% of illness from dairy contamination. I wrote what does Simon say? But I've already let a bunch of this go already. So, yeah, what does Simon think of all this raw milk? Let a bunch of this go already. So, yeah, what does simon think of all this raw milk stuff?
Speaker 1:First, on the influence, promoting it again. I feel like in general they fetishize natural places and they have a really childish, a naive understanding of nature. Cyanide is natural, sharks are natural. Lots of natural stuff can kill you, like if we were out hiking, you know, in some of the areas near my house in Montana and I told you not to drink the water from the river. You could do it, but the reason I was telling you not to is like a bunch of cows shit in the pastures just above it. Cow shit's natural. So is the Jardia that you're going to get. But yeah, you, just you, literally. I don't know man, you don't drink everything you come across in nature. I don't know what to tell you. Pasteurization, I don't think is any more unnatural through that Nair quotes, but it's no more unnatural than cooking. And I swore I was done ad hominem attacking. But you know, gwyneth Paltrow grew up in Los Angeles. I live here, a hunter. Now they are both literally actors playing a bit. They have no idea what they're talking about, what they're promoting. They are just literally actors.
Speaker 1:Helps, weight loss, lol, no, that's stupid. Calories, calories, calories, calories. I'm almost getting sick of discussing this, but the number of ways that people try to find their way out of caloric discipline and the things they embrace while doing it make a calm person want to smash his face through a pane of glass. This is dumb. You need to create a caloric deficit. Drinking calories typically isn't something that I would advocate. On weight loss, I always like to say drink water, coffee or tea when that's your goal. So no, that's dumb. This one is just objectively wrong. Doesn't help with weight loss at all.
Speaker 1:Improves gut health and lactose intolerance. I probably already said it, but I'm just going to go with the science here. Not likely. I don't think so. It's the sugars. Lactose is kind of the issue with lactose intolerance. So if there was lactose in it, I don't really think that the enzymes that aren't beneficial for humans are going to make much of a difference.
Speaker 1:If you have lactose intolerance, you probably shouldn't be consuming milk. I don't want to tell you how to live your life or anything, but I don't think that is a great choice based on what I've read. Better taste and texture. That's the one Fair enough, I guess. I don't know, can't validate, but if that's like your reason for it, then, like I said, go for it. That's subjective and I'm really happy when people enjoy the food that they eat. That's something that can keep you on a program if you're actually enjoying the food. So fair point if that's the case. And then yeah.
Speaker 1:So last one, and I also think this is relatively convincing People have a right to put whatever they want into their bodies to an extent. Yeah, my first reaction unlike the scientists, scientists was actually okay, cool, do drugs next. I'm not, you know, still hung up on, or I'm just not even interested in debating communicable diseases with anybody anymore. But yeah, so let's adopt that same stance for drugs. And then I guess, just in that stance, raw milk can jump in line. Do you know what I mean? I feel like the war on drugs has created a lot more baggage for a lot more people than the couple milk raids that we've had. So, yeah, but given my stance on illegal drugs, it would be completely hypocritical of me to criminalize users of raw milk. But again, you can't like openly sell illegal drugs in stores. So if that's the bar, yeah, I don't know, just get in line raw milk drunk.
Speaker 1:I technically do support your right to do you, but I do reject the notion that this is like a really powerful and profound individual liberty issue, and the reason is the arguments around its benefits really aren't that convincing. I'm not convinced. Pasteurization was like a big scheme to undermine the health of people. I kind of get why they did it. I kind of get why they did it and yeah, so anyway, no scheme here. But we'll get to this in a second. Whether you're drinking milk at all or not, that's another question that you know. It's up to you as well. Even just sort of put all the button on milk, at least as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1:Don't let culture war content inform real life decisions. In my experience, every culture war issue is reductive and binary. It ignores any subtlety or any nuance. That doesn't make the argument the speaker feels like making. It's also been my experience that that same subtlety and nuance that everyone ignores that's where you can actually find real edges. I love a finance analogy, but politics and investing similarly don't mix. Fitness and finance are the same subject.
Speaker 1:A few years back people talked about hyperinflation. If you traded that, it hasn't gone well for you. Silicon Valley Bank collapsed and everybody said that it was going to trigger bank defaults. How many times has World War III trended for the last eight years? And you might be trying to dunk on me saying you know Israel and Gaza and yes, they're, they're very bad situations given, but you know, sudan is actually the source of the most human casualties of any war on earth. Right now and perhaps you haven't seen any tweet storms about it Nobody has opinions ready to go. How, how to fix that one. The media has successfully predicted like 17 of the last two recessions, but they didn't tell you in 2021 to buy tech stocks. There was layoffs and they told you to run for the hills, but then AI hit.
Speaker 1:So you know I don't want to sound like Voltaire's Pangloss or, if you haven't read it, I don't believe that we live in the best of all possible worlds, but you're not going to get advance notice of anything but movie times from the culture war driven press. If you want an edge, you're going to have to dive into the details that no one else is looking at and, by definition, that generally isn't the conversation that's being had. You know, similar to that movie, what was leave the world behind? If you've seen it, there's just a, and I'm just going to spoil it for you if you haven't. Um, I don't even feel bad about it, but uh, it's a free movie on netflix. Well so, but yeah, this guy, he's got a friend like in the defense department or something and he's disappeared, and but they kind of come to realize like, oh you know, they just got a couple days head start. Um, there, there again. There's no big edge to be had in any of this debate to kind of zoom out and again pull away from the culture war component.
Speaker 1:Just on milk in general, and now I'm talking all of them regular milk, oat milk, rice milk, whatever, um, well, so you know, first, specifically to the regular milk, if you're lactose intolerant, don't drink it, you shouldn't, um, but if you're not, you know you, you can drink it. Um, there's a lot of alternative milk products, and even the regular milk. The truth is you don't actually need any of them the regular, the oat, the rice, none of them. I can build an entirely solid diet without it have plenty of times I've also included it in there. So this just isn't a big deal. There's no edge to be had in milk. If you think raw milk or regular milk or oat milk or some other milk that I just forgot to mention is either the bane of your existence or the missing ingredient. Calm down, you've been sold something. Touch grass, as the kids say.
Speaker 1:This whole issue to me is again, again, a great example of majoring in the minors. If we are even going to entertain a milk discussion and get this granular, we better only be talking to a group of people who are eating 80 minimally processed foods, lifting weights regularly, drinking coffee, tea, water and sleeping seven to nine hours a night. Because if none of those things are in place or we're not there yet, you know what I'm going to say. We're not ready to have a granular, somewhat meaningless discussion about milk and even pretend that that's a problem that we have in the diet or in our health plan. Carry the big rocks, focus on the things that are important and, again, don't let the culture war inform your opinions on much of anything. Definitely not health, because that's the only thing I'm really qualified to talk about. But anyway, I want to spend actually on one that I see as a really positive story. Finish on that note today, because I talked a lot of crap today.
Speaker 1:Anyway, there was some interesting new. Well, these are projections. This wasn't really. They obviously used data to create it, but the Institute of Health, metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington released projections on longevity. So, you know, kind of like stalwarts, like Singapore, switzerland, japan led the way. Those weren't surprising. One of the big correlations that emerges when you look at the data is, in general, gdp correlates with longer life, but there was a surprising, you know, sort of grouping in Southern Europe Spain, portugal, france and Italy that, relative to their GDPs, perform quite well. So, you know, some people might feel like they already know this or where we're going the. You know, people talk very often about the Mediterranean diet, and it's often credited for the long life in that region.
Speaker 1:What's interesting, though, is that when you kind of get granular and look at it, particularly at Spain, that explanation doesn't really seem to hold up, and it's actually kind of pointing to, you know, potentially something very different. Um, so, in spain in particular, the spanish drink more than the european average, they smoke a little bit more, and they do a lot more cocaine than the european average, and you know I can already picture right now some other influencer will hear this or, if they see this story, they're just going to go ahead and pitch the cocoa plant as some new, organic, fair trade, sustainably sourced. Yeah, I can literally see the pitch now. It's a natural blend of naturally occurring alkaloids that optimize your neural pathways by increasing dopamine and serotonin levels, maintaining focus and mental clarity. There you go, huberman. Take it, there's a free one man?
Speaker 1:But no, I don't actually think that what the data we're seeing should promote cocaine use. I think it's pointing to that maybe there's something else going on, maybe that in spite of these kind of suboptimal habits, they still enjoy a long lifespan. So we know that the Spaniards aren't particularly wealthy. They have a number of suboptimal habits, but the one thing that they do really well, better than the rest of Europe, is they lead in walking. So when I saw this, it literally reminded me of again something we've talked about here, but I call it the European vacation paradox. Literally, no one gains weight on vacation when they're in Europe, in spite of drinking booze and eating whatever they want, and it's because they walk to the sites. I've been, you know, training for a long time now and this just is a fact. If you walk to the sites, do whatever else you want, you're going to be fine, but anyway, that was kind of one of the things I really liked looking at this data was that was confirming something that I had anecdotally seen a lot with my American clients heading over to Europe.
Speaker 1:So the other thing that was notable in Spain's walking data was that. So countries that have high obesity, like the US, we have very wide discrepancies in step counts. It's very unequal. We have some people getting a lot of steps and we have other people not getting many steps at all Obviously something that's going to be hard for Americans to understand. Inequality, wow, but no. So countries that have low obesity generally don't have these wide variances in step counts. They have higher averages, but also lower variance your lowest walkers versus your highest walkers not as big a gap. So this, to me, was one of the interesting aspects that you can kind of piece together.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that drives, or why, why do Spaniards walk so much? I think a big part of it is actually going to get back to. In Spain, neither culture, nor housing policy, nor regulation favors construction of suburbs. Some of you have been and you know, but in Spain in particular is the 15 minute city. These are usually cities that are organized around like a common ground of some type where people usually eat and congregate, and you can pretty much walk to any part of the town in about 15 minutes. This is the way most of the cities there have been designed, and, yeah, so it turns out. If you walk everywhere, you can kind of drink a little bit more than average, eat a little bit more, party a lot, and you can mitigate most of the downsides by just walking.
Speaker 1:Side benefit though and I've also heard this from people vacationing in spain having a city built that way also encourages a sense of community that is very uncommon in american cities. We are the land of strip malls and intersections. Now, actually and I've traveled around some of the worst in the country, if you guys can think of, like what it's like down in Florida, some of the roads down there when you pull up to a shopping center you'd have to be suicidal to walk around in any of those areas, and this just isn't how cities are designed in areas where they have low obesity. So this again, I think, is one. It's, I think, a factor that we're not going to necessarily think about. It's not the intuitive answer, shall we say, but I think this is a much better explanation for why obesity is such a prevalent problem in our world and it isn't in other parts of the world.
Speaker 1:A lot of us are not eating perfect diets A lot of us don't have perfect information about what to eat and if you stay moving and active and obviously the other part, staying involved with your community, I think also well, I know correlates with positive health outcomes these are just strategies that are a lot more effective. So, anyway, my big takeaway from looking at this was just that To me, it just demonstrates how effective movement and community can be and how ineffective a lot of our other ideas are at addressing the goal of longevity. I actually see it as great news because these are real easy things that we actually can fix and, like I said, I see it as kind of inspiring, or just it's liberating to know that you don't need a perfect understanding or perfect execution to get really good results. You just need to get the basics right, and we've expanded on a broader set of basics but apparently from your training component, if you get the walking done, you're already a long way. If you do the basics we talk about here, like back in moving the big rocks, that's where I think you're legitimately going to have elite health without having to buy, you know new products or have a new personality every six months. All you really need is just to move regularly, have strong connections to your community and your family. All of those things are way better predictors of longevity than so many of the things that we spend so much time and energy focusing on, and I guess that's what kind of.
Speaker 1:What I want to get to today is that if we just spent a fraction of the energy and the resources that we put towards self-optimization strategies with no efficacy, we would have better health and stronger communities. I'm not even going to pull up the figure because it'll make me sick, but when I hear us talk about how we don't have money for this, that, and I have to go with my child to go to the parks and I see what's been left for the next generation, this is where we do need to be honest with ourselves. And again, maybe someone else go Google it because it'll make me nauseous but how much do we really spend on wellness products in a year and what do we really value? Because, first off, I get it, but you're not achieving anything with that. Why don't we put those resources to something that actually works? We put those resources to something that actually works.
Speaker 1:You can never find money for the things like the parks and sports programs and stuff. But then when you go talk to people, these are the things that people say they value, these are the things that people say they miss. And I think the thing we've forgotten because any of us who had those when we were kids, those were built for us by other people. And if we think those things are important and we want to see that at some point we kind of have to look in the mirror and build that. And yeah, sorry to soapbox, but if you haven't been out to a public park with a child recently, a public park with a child recently, um and I even hear this perspective a lot, just in, uh, some older people, quite frankly, but oh, my kids are out of school, I'm done paying for that. And um, yeah, but they're gonna go find some money for some elective surgeries and stuff, even though whoops, I'm getting too brutally honest nobody's's looking, or oh well, there we go, just like. Anyway, probably should cut that one.
Speaker 1:But no, the uplifting bit that I would really like to end on is just that the things that we actually need to do to change the world and make a better place are right in front of us. They're not difficult. It's been made to seem a lot more confusing. A lot of the exact same strategies that you would put towards optimizing your life, towards longevity. These are the exact same strategies that we should be building for our communities. So, anyway, I honestly remain a lot more optimistic and positive on that. Once we see that path, there really is no reason for us to not put those things into action. But anyway, guys, thanks for letting me clear that stuff up and rant a little bit today. Always appreciate your time and attention. Remember mind and muscle are inseparably intertwined. There are no gains without brains. Keep lifting and learning. I'll do the same.
