Midnight Train to Royston (S2:Ep11:Part4)

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Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop
Coach Castleton

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the Lasso way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Okay, welcome back, beautiful people. Today we are discussing Ted Lasso season two, episode 11. Midnight Train to Royston Place, where all the best midnight trains go, if it's not Georgia? This is part four of our discussion. I am your host, coach Castleton, and with me is always is Coach Bishop.

Speaker 3: 1:04

Just over here, ready to go shopping for my face.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Yeah, that's where we're going to pick it up, right there, and with us is our boss, emily Chambers.

Speaker 4: 1:15

I'm going to jump right into it with you.

Speaker 4: 1:17

Castleton, I was right before we started this recording reading an article by Amanda Marcotte on Salon, a book by Liz Lenz called this American X Life. It's about how she divorced her husband and shit got great. Her husband wasn't a violent or bad person, but he wasn't helping out. He wasn't carrying his weight, he wasn't doing what he was supposed to do in the marriage and his response to her was always well, that's not a big deal, let it slide Like I didn't take the garbage out, but I'll get to it later. And then, when he doesn't get to it later, she had to do it.

Speaker 4: 1:51

So Liz had to divorce her husband and now her life is amazing and they have a conversation about. You know the ways in which marriage is enforced in Western culture and what women are supposed to expect from marriage and how they're supposed to compromise. And it led me to the realization that in our current political socioeconomic system, caring about other people is, for a man, an act of political rebellion, and not caring about other people for women is the same act. And I think that this is a lot of Wait can you repeat that again, not caring for a woman.

Speaker 4: 2:30

I want to make sure I get this, yes, so for a guy, for a man, caring about other people sometimes even before yourself, caring for other people is an act of political rebellion. For a woman, to not care about other people is an act of rebellion for her, and I think that this is a lot of our disagreement about things. Not that I shouldn't care about anybody, but that I have been conditioned to sacrifice my happiness and put other people's comfort and happiness above mine, and so demanding that actually I'm going to take care of myself first is, for me, an act of political rebellion, because I'm saying like fuck society, I'm doing me. And for you, putting somebody else before yourself or caring more about somebody else than yourself is an act of rebellion for you, because you've been taught that you are the most important person.

Speaker 3: 3:28

I think that's incredibly insightful and I think it. I just hadn't ever considered it that way. So, as within the context of this podcast, but in a more broad way, I like playing with this idea that if we try to discuss these things in a vacuum, right, that actually we will absolutely land in different places, because what we're pushing against may be similar, but from whence we push against it is totally different. Like the fact you know what I'm saying, like I yes, that's really that's yeah, it's a really interesting point. I feel like I'm going to be thinking about that now for a while, but I think I have not captured the essence of it.

Speaker 2: 4:21

So, as a man, I am rebelling by caring about other people, and as a woman, you are rebelling by caring about yourself. Is that? Am I saying it the right way? Yes, okay, so we're both rebels. We're both James Dean, is what you're saying?

Speaker 4: 4:35

I think that this is also why you and I Not that we clash, but that our perspectives on things seem to rub against each other in weird ways, because what you're saying is, in order to reach this greater good, everybody needs to care more about each other. And what I'm saying is wait a minute, not all of us. Some of us have already been so impositioned to care more about other people, or to do more caring, I should say.

Speaker 2: 5:04

Yeah, maybe I've misrepresented my position, but either way, boss, let me say for the record I'm thrilled about who you are, and oh, no, no, no, no, yeah, no, no, no, I like the positions you take and, I think, long overdue.

Speaker 2: 5:22

The way I probably try to emphasize it is when I see things like. One of my favorite tweets was this thing where someone said I guess it was like a conversation between, an approximated conversation between a man and a woman and the man says, well, if men weren't around, who would protect you? Who would protect women? And then the woman's like from whom?

Speaker 4: 5:45

From what yeah?

Speaker 1: 5:47

No, no, no.

Speaker 2: 5:48

And it's like and I go yes, that's the and it doesn't. This is why and I'd come at it through comedy and things like that, but absolutely yes, my premise is never oh boy, women need to do more. I think this is why we got into Ted Lasso. To be honest with you, I just think when Coach and I saw Ted and we're like, okay, these guys are approaching it differently and so maybe that has spiraled into something else. And when I talk about health economy or when I talk about caring about other people or approaching things in a different way.

Speaker 2: 6:21

That probably is just specific to me, but I know that at least the impetus for loving that show and everything about it was the avatar of the male avatar, specifically Like hey, it doesn't have to be the way your grandpappy raised you. You really can't choose a different road and approach people differently, and so I think that was sort of where I started. Point for us.

Speaker 3: 6:48

I'm hearing that and maybe I'm repeating, so forgive me, but I guess some of what I'm hearing from Bloss tell me if I got this part right is when Keely affirms everyone around her and as a cheerleader and as the caretaker, and everybody feels warm and fuzzy around her. People don't know that within the world of Ted Lasso, I mean, people aren't like whoa, this woman just came through here and gave a shit about everybody, but when?

Speaker 3: 7:25

a man does. It's like right, it's like the whole like are you babysitting your kids today? Are you babysitting your kids today? Yeah, I was going to say the exact.

Speaker 2: 7:35

Every time I take a walkthrough of grocery store with four kids in tow, every old lady on the planet stops and asks me for an autograph. Because it's it's a phase.

Speaker 2: 7:45

We are all. Listen, here's the thing. Part of it is owning my personal colonization. Right, I have been raised in an environment that has taught me one thing and I have to. It's like learning a second language where I go, oh yeah, like actually, huh, okay, that's probably Just owning your privilege and recognizing when you're perpetuating, even completely inadvertently perpetuating, an unhealthy stereotype or an unhealthy sort of hegemonic patriarchy. We do it, even when we try not to.

Speaker 2: 8:21

I'm saying for me in my world, even when I have to step back and think, wait, why am I doing this? And then I think, wait, why am I doing that? Wait, what was the origin of? You have to go back so far and drill down and then just be honest with yourself and half the time, more than half the time, when you get there, it's brutal and you realize, fuck, I did this last week, I did it. You know what I mean, oh my God. And there's a lot of shame around it because you're like, no, no, this is where we get to the version where you go I'm a good man, and things that drives you crazy.

Speaker 3: 9:00

Not all men are.

Speaker 2: 9:02

All that stuff. No, no, no, because I do this. It's like, well, why do you do that, dude? And then you start drilling down and invariably I'll speak for myself I am still very much part of the problem, despite all of my efforts, and so it is something that it's daunting and it's overwhelming, and you're like where is the fucking edge of the? It's like trying to find the edge of the puzzle. I want to start building the edge and the puzzle pieces just keep going and you're like how do we?

Speaker 2: 9:35

So anyway it is overwhelming as a white man. So how must it be for everyone else? How do you even begin to tackle it with a boot on your throat the entire time? So it is something that is yeah, boss.

Speaker 4: 9:58

Just to clarify I don't think that you are doing anything the wrong way, necessarily. I think that what you were saying is very often undoubtedly correct for you, extremely correct for a number of people, for a lot of especially liberal white guys who want to do better, absolutely correct. So I didn't come into this to try to be like hey, this is why you don't understand why my way is better. That's about what I'm getting at. I think it's more so, even getting into self reflection and how you deal with your own shit and everything else.

Speaker 4: 10:29

I have started trying to make it a point to say specifically like white women and people of color and women of color, because all of those groups are treated differently. Like if I were to say, well, we need to work on being less racist, black people would rightfully say, like bitch, I don't have to do shit, like there is no we in this, we do not need to be less racist, you need to be less racist. And so I'm trying to be really conscious of where those perspectives come from. And if I say like if a black person said, well, I don't have any white friends, I'd be like well, I kind of get that Like we're scary, we're like we probably would have hurt you at some point.

Speaker 4: 11:16

If a white person says I don't have any black friends, I'd be like oh well, that's a problem, you need to. You need to look into that, and so I think that it's more so understanding that there is not a single rule that is ever going to fit every group. Every group is coming from a different perspective, with different history and figuring out if the goal is ultimately more equality and more equity for every person in the country or in the world. What do we need to do to get there, regardless of if it's different between each individual group?

Speaker 3: 11:46

I also like that you identify excuse me the goal, because I don't I actually don't believe it is an absolutely shared goal, and so I think it's important also to note that, so you also know with whom you're having a given conversation. One of the things I've seen recently on the I'll stay on the gender thing for a moment, because it's based versions of it, all sorts of versions is it's a feminine quality to do this, or it's a feminine characteristic to do that, or it's men being betas or cuffs, and it'd be the weirdest shit. There was a, there was an image of like a pretty nice sort of modern decorated apartment. Now, whether this is, you know, bullshit for clicks or what I don't know, and it says, you know, my friends say that having an apartment this nice is a feminine treat. What should I change? And my comment was your friends, you should change your friends, you have a nice apartment.

Speaker 3: 12:53

What the fuck are we discussing right now? You have a nice apartment, like a girl, like you know, I mean so. So I bring that up only because I think what also gets swirled into especially social media is there's a conversation you're talking about with Castleton where he say, hey, we need not be, you know, so selfish and blah, blah, blah. Whatever the right things are, we could be more caring. There's another way to do this. Thank you, ted, last row. And you can be saying, yeah, I got it. I got plenty of education on how to take care of people. That's not a problem, totally with you. Then I think that entire conversation gets complicated by this guy's mouth.

Speaker 3: 13:34

Breathing friends will come in and say, well, whatever they say that like jumbles all the messages, because both your messages are around. How do we get to quality and equity for everybody?

Speaker 4: 13:47

Yes, yep, absolutely, and I think that that's why sometimes, as much as I hate to admit this, I get even more irritated by the people who I agree with 90% of the time than people that are absolute that's right. Because I could be like, oh well, you don't Trump, you don't matter, you and I are going to never agree on ever, ever have to consider what you say is valid, whereas the 2% that Castleton and I disagree over. I have yelled at him about. I have literally clapped my hands and pointed fingers and yell.

Speaker 2: 14:24

I haven't noticed that at all.

Speaker 1: 14:25

No, no, god, no, no, it all sounds so pleasant around here so you're saying I should be loud. No, please.

Speaker 2: 14:42

No, no, thank you, boss, and I want to compliment you because I think you've been amazing about the delineation. You're so self aware about these things and I attributed to not having children melting your brain half the time. But you're so great about like, even when you say like, oh, you know, as a woman and voting for Hillary, and then like getting mad if black women will say like, oh, white women need to step up, not all white like, and you being like God damn it, I have to do a better job. That's the whole thing and I feel like at least, at least the effort is there and we're really trying to do something and we're not going to be perfect, but we have that effort. It's so funny because we were just talking the other day on the podcast about being being provokable and stuff, and I was thinking, god, I have such a luxury of, I have the luxury of not being provoked. And because I was talking to coach and I was like, god, I hope I didn't come off like, I hope I'm not like, just like a. You know like my privilege goes. Listen, it happens all the time. I try really hard for it to not happen, but it is so much privilege.

Speaker 2: 15:55

And then we were talking, I said to something writing this, this funny thing, and sometimes I'll check in with coach about different cultural things and I said, hey, is this a real thing? And he says, yeah, you know, it's just like like I heard. You know, I don't want to say it, but it was like a like a cultural thing, and we're just like oh, and I was like this valid, I've never heard this before. He's like, yes, it's actually. And then he sent me some clips from from the comedian talking about that thing, like, like, verifying it in a really funny way.

Speaker 2: 16:27

And so I was like, oh, okay, and I kept watching this particular comedian and the next thing he started talking about coach was being like, being provoked, like, like, you know, he's like black people were just wired differently, man, like we're not going to take that shit. And I was like, oh, this is so. So this is a culture. Like, when we were walking out of the theater, the other you know you taught that story about Tarantino. You're like, oh, that old white lady like I guess your friend didn't show up, right, and I would, I would never. I'm like get the fuck, get away from me, I don't want to be around you Coach. So coach, and I forget it was if Daphne was there, I think, and some up right.

Speaker 3: 17:08

Yeah, daphne, and a friend here.

Speaker 2: 17:10

And if right. And so it's like you, you, you made a thing and it's like, as I'm watching this, this comedian talk about it and how it's like a cultural issue, I'm like, oh God, like I was thinking about how hardwired are certain responses generationally. Like because you think like, if you go back, I don't know, I just think about, like, if you go back a hundred years, right, and then you're as much of a coward, slash, a voider as I am, like, how's that going to help? You know, I'm like, how does it help in the, in the sociological way? I'm like, oh my God. So I just say, yes, coach, I hope. I hope I did not come off.

Speaker 2: 17:53

You know, there's a privilege not at all privilege to be able to sidestep, thing that even right there. I don't think I'll address this.

Speaker 3: 18:01

Oh for sure. Yeah, no, I've no idea you are that and I mean it didn't. Yeah, just also, there is personality difference built into all that. We get that part to. But there is a cultural piece in spite of because, as you were telling that, I remember now getting the text, that's fun. But as you're telling that I was thinking about, loss has told a story where I want to say a guy either grabbed your friend in a bar or, like, said something really gross to her and you like went off and started yelling at him.

Speaker 4: 18:37

Try to remember the details, but at any rate, there's something so wrong with me that I was like, well, which time was it that what I wanted? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 18:45

is that Wednesday or Thursday or actually Monday there?

Speaker 4: 18:49

was a friend's bachelorette party where somebody scooted past one of the bachelorette attendees and, like very clearly rubbed his dick on her ass as he was moving past.

Speaker 3: 19:01

Yes, that was yes, because I remember thinking like, whatever it was, I remember going there's really no two ways around that one man Like you were being gross. Yeah, no, I did.

Speaker 4: 19:12

I did not yell, that was a scream. That was like Castleton. If I ever accidentally scream on you, I will pay for your funeral because you will be dead. You're talking about just the decibel level, or decibel and snarling and like my fingers literally in his face, like I fucking dare you, I fucking dare you to do it, I will, I will murder you right here Like hardcore aggression.

Speaker 2: 19:42

The best part about this is that in this threesome of you, me and coach is never any suggestion that you would ever be that mad at coach, but somehow, someway. I better just imagine this to Castleton, because just so he knows. Yeah, it might happen.

Speaker 3: 20:09

But no, I do think it's interesting, you know, if you've been put in positions where, like traditionally, historically, however you want to put it you're expected to take shit. I think there is something around like those days are gone, we're not doing this right. So I think I always remember the moment in Remember the Titans and we can get to Royce Remember the Titans where he's Denzel's character. Boone is talking to the other assistant coach I might think of his name in a stairwell and he's in the guys telling them like you know, maybe show a little humility. You know, kind of like you know he wouldn't be throwing bricks through your window if you took it easy. And he says I don't scratch my head unless it itches and I don't dance unless I hear music playing. And I remember in the theater just being like God damn right, like aside from this story, I was like God damn right, like that's a big man.

Speaker 2: 21:10

The people behind you in the theater, would you mind you? Sit down now and stop, stop, stop clapping. You're not in your living room.

Speaker 3: 21:18

I'm enjoying this, got it, got it. Yeah, that's it, but yeah, no. So I think there is something around that is not. Again, not absolutely, but as a, you would probably almost never be in a place where, simply because you're a white man, you're expected to shut the fuck up or take whatever it is, whereas that guy thought that boss's friend just had to get you know. Basically, I don't even know what to call that.

Speaker 4: 21:54

It's not groping, whatever it is, it's gross, it's kind of groping yeah, it's gross, it's, it's you know.

Speaker 3: 21:59

But like he thought, like yeah, what the fuck she gonna do? Yes, so, so, boss, saying not today, motherfucker, is a thing, right, that's a, that's a, that's a shift Anyway no. I think it's a big attention and look at it.

Speaker 2: 22:11

The only, the only time I remember being shut the fuck up because you're a white man was in Black Panther and why so many people had, like I had, a reaction that I was like. I was like, oh my God, like, how have as. I'm like, just like, I get one split second of of being told to shut the fuck up or whatever, and I'm like, oh, like, I didn't like it for a second. Yeah, now you know what I mean. Like I'm like, yeah yeah, yeah, oh shit.

Speaker 4: 22:51

You know what's interesting. My favorite thing about Black Panther well, I shouldn't say favorite Black Panther was great, fucking loved it. Every, everything about it was phenomenal. I did find it interesting, I should say, that Martin Freeman and Andy Serkis were basically the only white characters in in the whole thing that I could think of, at least the first movie. Both of them also, andy Serkis obviously in the Lord of the Rings and Martin Freeman in the Hobbits, making them the Tolkien white guys.

Speaker 2: 23:31

It's clever. No, it's clever.

Speaker 3: 23:33

I didn't see it coming. I didn't see it coming. I didn't see that coming. We're playing Wednesday here at the Ted Kess.

Speaker 1: 23:53

I was like, where's this going?

Speaker 3: 23:55

I was like I knew it was going somewhere. I was like no, this is a big, I'm a Capric, it's Tolkien, white guys.

Speaker 2: 24:01

Yeah, I felt a pang of pain. Yeah, but it was good.

Speaker 1: 24:05

It was good I didn't do it.

Speaker 2: 24:06

Yeah, that's a good thought. All right, let's, let's. Let's dig into Ted Lasso. When we left, we had just had Rebecca come clean the Ted, and we just got to the point where Keely has taken Nate out to buy a new suit and she does this fierce voila, voila as she comes through the burgundy draperies wearing this fantastic outfit.

Speaker 2: 24:40

Keely, of course, has one of those annoying qualities where she looks just great in everything. I'm trying to think of a scene in Ted Lasso where Juno Temple didn't look stunning in every, you know, just always. Just some people have that Some people can pull off. The real thing is like some people look good in everything. Some people, some actors, especially women, are like they don't have a bad side, like they shoot them from. You know, you're like, oh my God, they can shoot them from anywhere. And and then the, and then the. The crowning achievement is like any, any haircut looks good on them, you know, like any hairdo, any type of thing. Rebecca has this to where you're just like, knock it. Like, really like. So if it's down, if it's up, it doesn't matter, any shape, any look. You're like, wow, how the hell so Keely? She comes through the curtain and, boss, walk us through, please, this part of the scene.

Speaker 4: 25:38

Yeah. So she comes out wearing, I don't believe, the outfit that she ultimately ends up on, ends up with, but she does look great jacket, pants, little top. The man working at the store says oh my God, that's so good, I can't even look at you. When she laughs and said thanks, jaco. And then over to the other dressing room Oi, how you doing in there, babe. And Nathan Nate says God, this place is so posh I feel like I'm not supposed to be here. I mean, this place is for rich twats who piss away all of their money on an outfit they only wear once. And then he chuckles and she says but Nate, today you are one of those twats. And he says I quite like that which. It is an interesting thing.

Speaker 3: 26:25

Yeah, there's a lot going on here. You certainly have the moment like PB and J walking into where was the crown anchor? No, what's the name of that place, you know?

Speaker 4: 26:39

we would meet the lady Bone and Honey.

Speaker 3: 26:42

Bone and Honey. Thank you, yeah, Crown Anchor, Sorry. So yeah. So, Bone and Honey, you know where. If you've been in this situation, it is a lot to process when you walk in somewhere and go I do not belong here, Like how long until I have found out and tossed from this place. But more than that, I think we get a real glimpse into Nate, Like he ultimately thinks of himself as so small. He's not like oh, it's cool that now I'm in a place in life where I'm a coach of a football team or you know that I can go out and buy these things. That's cool. It's like I feel like I don't belong. It's such a specific thing to say in this moment where you were invited somewhere where you're being, you know, waited on, yeah, anyway, I think it matters that that was his core, honest reaction to being there.

Speaker 2: 27:49

Yeah, I want to say that there's an element of Nate I really really understand, which is this is like a prerequisite for me when I go travel internationally. Is I really well, it's not prerequisite. I vastly prefer when I have a local guide. You know that's awesome. You know what I mean. Like so somebody you like, somebody you really know, and they're like listen, I'm from Peru, so anytime you want to come down here Now you go down there and it's like they're your friend, but they also show you all the real. You know the places and you get the insiders information. You're not stuck in tourist traps, and you know what I mean. And she, he's getting that experience here where it's like this is Keeley's world. She really knows it. There's no, and because she's so awesome and there's no stress to her, what she's just having fun, like when she comes out in that outfit. You know just like this is. It's almost like playing dress up. You know, like when you're a little kid and they try on a bunch of different outfits, it's like this is that level, except it's, I guess, for real. You know, and so I have never. I can say I've never.

Speaker 2: 28:57

I think one time when I was a little kid. I went to like a place where this, this kind of thing happened. I didn't get like a suit tailored or anything. I sort of saw this on like a screen. I was like we were in London and then I went to, you know, sabbath Road, all these places where you get, you know, you saw, I saw it being so happening in front of me, but I didn't, you know, I was like I was probably 12 or 13. So I didn't, you know, I experienced it.

Speaker 2: 29:30

But it seems like a lot of fun, I don't know. It seems like a lot of fun to try like even even watching Nate put on these plaid. I'm like this is fun, like how has he ever put this, this pattern on in his life and then given it a, given it a world, taking it out for a spin. It just seems fun and it seems like a level of entitlement that if you don't consider yourself worthy, it wouldn't feel like you're an individual. Okay, so Keely she is, you know, moving around and boss. Yeah, I'd like you know what these are nice shots of for those watching along. There are these shots of Nate. They're pretty tight. They're pretty like close up shots of me, like frame wise coach, look at that, you know, look at the. It's a, it's a one shot, but he really, his face really fills the frame.

Speaker 3: 30:22

You're, you're a borderline, You're so wide you're borderline fisheye.

Speaker 2: 30:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 30:29

I'm sorry, that was like really obnoxious. When lenses get, that was really obnoxious. That when lenses get wider, as it, the depth of field like how much is in focus changes and sort of the way you see things. So for those of you of a certain age, if you think of like the old, like Buster Rhymes videos or Missy Elliott videos like that, like really stretched out, weird, like whoa coming through the screen, feeling that's sort of the extreme of it and Nate, excuse me, isn't quite there but it's it's, it's approaching that level of closeness and in terms of like using the lens that way. So that's whatever to say.

Speaker 2: 31:14

And we are. We are seeing Nate from the perspective of the mirror, which is a choice. When we're framing Nate, it is framing the distance and perspective of him seeing himself.

Speaker 2: 31:27

So it's it's as if his reflection is looking back at him and he is delighted to see the huge smile on his face. We've talked if you followed us for a while we've talked a lot about the many smiles of Nick Muhammad and how clever he is with the types of smiles he's able to pull off, and he is really, really enjoying himself in this scene. Please, please, keep going, boss.

Speaker 4: 31:56

So, yes, yes, everything you just said. Also, I don't need to bomb anybody out, but I think that it is unfortunate that there is so little space in between having imposter syndrome and finding things commonplace, like there's. Very few times I I am not bragging about my life, I love it. I don't think anybody else would be impressed, necessarily, but there are times where I think, well, like yes, I go downtown and I work in downtown Chicago in a skyscraper and that's pretty impressive, but like it's, you know, it's not that impressive, it's fine, like sure. And so I think that it's really odd that there was a time where I was like I will never have an important enough job to work downtown in a skyscraper.

Speaker 4: 32:44

And then I did that for like six months, and then I was like oh yeah, no, this is fucking great. So I sort of enjoy that. Keeley seems to hang on to the joy of going clothes shopping and dressing up and not playing pretend, but like being involved. She's like, yeah, this is fucking great. Do you see these outfits I get to wear, amazing.

Speaker 1: 33:06

I love the line.

Speaker 2: 33:07

This like for a certain type of person, this is the finish. You know, this is like, yeah, this is a goal kind of environment where you go like, oh my God, if I would, this would be a day in heaven for me. Yes, you know this type of so yeah, I think they capture that, definitely for Keeley and for Nate. Yeah, he does feel like an interloper, but again he's having, he's having a blast.

Speaker 3: 33:32

I like what you said too in terms of that boss, in that it feels it feels like a corollary somehow to be curious, not judgmental. You know like that, you know that whole thing will treat your first like your last street to last like your first, that that kind of a vibe, and that Keeley has that yes and and and beyond this, Nate doesn't right. Like when Nate was named a coach, he was so excited he had to blow his whistle inside.

Speaker 2: 34:03

Yes.

Speaker 3: 34:03

He had to be taught not to do that. But that's how excited he was and within not very much time he's mad because people aren't going to throw a parade for him as an assistant coach, Because the idea was his. Like, as Roy says, that's the job Right. Like, like that's all gone now. I don't want this anymore. I want the next thing.

Speaker 4: 34:23

Yes, I think that that says a lot about who they are as people, in terms of where their contentment and satisfaction comes from, that she feels internally confident enough that this is fun and he has something to play and he feels like he needs to keep proving to people over and over again that he deserves to be here 100% and that sense of yeah, that sense of worthiness I mean it's the stuff we talk about, right?

Speaker 3: 34:50

So yeah, and yeah, we're about to. Okay, here we go. I don't want to spoil what we're about to.

Speaker 4: 34:56

Well. So, on that note, she says, oh, this is so much fun. And he says, yeah. She says Roy never does stuff with me, stuff like this with me. He's always like I'm Roy Kent, why do I need to go shopping? I already own a black t-shirt and jeans. And then, as Nate is coming out of the dressing room, she says to him about the outfit, this is a yes.

Speaker 3: 35:23

Yeah, poor Nate, poor Nate. Let's keep going, poor Nate.

Speaker 4: 35:31

And then, immediately after that, jaco says I'm worried about the crotch. Does the crotch feel loose? The crotch looks loose. Keeley thoughts on the crotch, which is we don't need to do that. I get it.

Speaker 3: 35:50

But like I read, wow, yeah, like, for those of you at home who may be missing out on the fact that this young man doesn't feel like a big boy, we're going to literally just have two people just stare at his crotch and decide whether you really need much more fabric than that. Like, like like what?

Speaker 4: 36:12

Well, it's also. So the conversation doesn't stop there. Keeley has thoughts on the crotch. I think the crotch looks great. We can have the crotch taken in. It's better to have a tight crotch than a loose crotch, you know, but we love the suit. Yes, and I should mention that in the shot both Keeley and Jaco like bend down, kneel down in order to get a better look at the crotch. I do not believe that, nate, any person nobody alive deserves to have somebody treat them in a specific sexual manner. Like you are not owed anybody's sexual time or energy, but they are making it very clear that there is nothing about Nate's crotch that they associate with sex whatsoever.

Speaker 3: 36:59

At all, like there's the opposite of discomfort, like I don't even know that it's actually comfort, like it's something, yeah.

Speaker 4: 37:08

It's a weird combination of medical and as if he were a child Like that's exactly what it's like.

Speaker 4: 37:16

Yeah, it's like on an episode of Bob's Burgers. Tina, the oldest daughter, says to her parents my crotch itches and her dad is a little taken aback. Bob doesn't love that and when she says it to her mom she says come here, let me check it out, let me see, let me see and just like right in, just like nothing, this is fine. It feels almost like that, like just let me get a better look. Come closer so I can get a better look at your crotch.

Speaker 3: 37:39

Try to see your crotch Right.

Speaker 2: 37:41

Yeah, Bob is a. He's a creature of this world and I'll posit that, rather than the absence of a sexual vibe, it is a dynamic of a fashion fashionista. So here's my. I don't know, I think I'm agreeing with the experience I have with it is, I have a very handsome, erudite British friend. God knows why. He's friends with New York coach. He's close friends with both of us, but he will. He runs these huge productions Like I don't know how to describe it, but he does these like if you're going to have a 200th celebration of your college or something, you got to put together, a $3 million pageant, or he does that. Oh, and he does. He works with Cirque du Soleil, works with Paul Schoie.

Speaker 3: 38:34

The guy is unbelievable. He's done shit for like one name artists oh yeah. Like people who you're like. Oh right, Everybody knows that. Yeah, Sorry.

Speaker 4: 38:45

He's, he's. He's worked with Tom.

Speaker 3: 38:47

That's right, everybody's friends.

Speaker 2: 38:51

And so he will sometimes invite me. When the last time was was was Cirque du Soleil, and so you have these people who it is so great he invites me in and it's like like all of a sudden, shrek is in the room and and these people and I, and then I and I'm just studying, because they, they have a different, they have a totally different relationship to their bodies. Like they would think nothing, because their body is a tool. It's like it is, their, is how they run their life and it's how you know, they can just walk up to like a flagpole and grab it and then go sideways on it and like that's, like, that's nothing. You know what I mean? Because their body is such so it's the. Their body is always the best it can possibly be and so it removes like the sexual energy in the weirdest way. They'll just talk about things, they'll open their legs and they'll be like look at my, the inside of my thigh, and any other person you'd go Jesus Christ, like oh, holy, holy, you know hi-oh.

Speaker 2: 39:54

And with them it's like no, no, they're talking about the striations in their leg. And you're like, they're so comfortable, they're so hyper comfortable with, with their body that when, when I'm around it, I'm like, oh my God, it's like, it's like it's just like just glimpsing the other side. You know what I mean? It's just so wonderful, it's, it's a wonderful. So when they, if they got dressed or whatever they'd be like, okay, put this costume on, is it too tight in the crotch? It would just be a practical matter, like, yes, it's clearly too tight in the crotch. You know what I mean? I read a little bit of that into into Jaco, but yeah, he's unabashedly like, you know, just just right down to the right down the floor level, right down to hip level actually. And then, yeah, let's check it out.

Speaker 3: 40:42

I think you're on point in context. I also think and this is, if this is so I'm going to be both impressed and saddened with for myself and with myself. So I'm going to share this right now here. I just had the thought, as you were describing that, and I totally agree with you that in this world I mean, this is what this person does right, like all day. It's like let's all do this, let's move that. So it's not the same relationship to talking about somebody's crotch that you know Orlando coach would would have Right. I had thought the thought this is giving me wonder years, though there's something like they're the grownups and he's the kid.

Speaker 4: 41:20

That is the show I was trying to think of. I thought maybe it was the Goldbergs, but yes, no, this was a scene on the one or yours. Yes, wasn't it? Yes, okay.

Speaker 3: 41:31

He said everyone. Kevin has extra room in his crotch and I remember being like oh so I wonder if that was like super conscious or they just happened to go to the same kind of a scene. But yeah, I'm glad you thought of it too, boss, because I was like wait a minute, yeah, yeah, it's practically. I think you're right, coach, and in terms of impact, I feel like it has a lot of that wonder years impact of like.

Speaker 4: 41:57

Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:59

Yeah, and the Kevin's of the world ever get to be in Chakos, or has Chaco always been Chaco? No, and Kevin's.

Speaker 3: 42:07

Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 2: 42:09

Yeah, I don't ever imagine being able to do if I got to the highest level my body could be, I still would be. You know, I would still look at it like wonder years. I can't imagine ever feeling like those dancers and those performers. Yeah, what do you think, boss?

Speaker 4: 42:28

I don't know, I don't. I can't say that I agree only because I think that our experiences impact so much of our understanding and our understanding dictates our experiences. So you right now are not in the position where you feel like you could be that openly free with your body. So it's about I'm going to, I'm going to do a quick tangent and I promise I'm going to be right back.

Speaker 4: 42:55

I don't know if I've mentioned on the show before, but there's a place in Niles, illinois, called Kings Spa is my third favorite place in the Chicagoland area. I fucking love it, and the first thing you do when you get there, after you get a little wristband so that you charge everything to your credit card and they give you a key and send you down to the locker room the first thing you need to do is get completely naked and take a shower and you can go into a series of different hot cold tubs, steam saunas in there, but you need to be fully naked. They do not let you leave into the bigger spa until they have watched you strip naked and wash off your entire body, like they monitor it, and when I first heard about the place, I actually like prison entry.

Speaker 4: 43:44

Yes, like you would put a little tub of lye and you know, like one time I went in and I didn't have my hair up high enough and they were like you got to fix that shit. You, you put that in a top bun. I don't know what you think you're doing. You got to wash that shit and then put it in a top bun Like it's fucking for real. And the first time before I went, somebody else told me about it.

Speaker 4: 44:05

I got passes for me and two of my friends not understanding about all of the nakedness, and they were like I don't really feel comfortable being that naked around you guys. And I was like that's fine, I'll take it Like I'm going to, I'm going to brace myself, I'm going to get naked in front of a large number of people and I'm I'm going to do this because I already paid the $33 for the group on, so I fucking have to do it. And now I go every six months and it's my favorite thing and I never think like not even a second thought, like I am walking into the locker room and pulling my shirt off already, where I'm like I, this is naked time now. It's fucking fine, let's do this. So I think you can get there. I think that you just need to be there in order to get there.

Speaker 2: 44:52

I'm, I'm into it. There's a little quiet here because I've known coach a long time and I'm just being quiet, so he has to respond to this.

Speaker 3: 45:07

That's really funny, Are we?

Speaker 1: 45:10

are we doing? Are we?

Speaker 3: 45:12

Are we? Are we? Yeah, no, well, it's, it's yeah, we no.

Speaker 2: 45:16

No, listen here's okay, I'll give you the background Everyone.

Speaker 3: 45:18

Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they were like what is happening? Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 45:22

We used to talk about again one of our, one of the projects. Coach and I have talks a lot about cultural differences. We talk about it all the time when we have, like a thing white people do you know, like, like, like. If him and I are just talking and there's some white nonsense that comes up, I will just say like what is this Not white nonsense? White people kissing a dog on the mouth.

Speaker 4: 45:43

I don't like, I feel just. I do not claim that, I do not claim that we're saying we're speaking in generalities, but one of the funny.

Speaker 2: 45:54

I love this scene so much and the coach telling me for those of you who don't know, uh went to Yale in New Haven County. So he attended that school didn't just drive by, throw a pizza pie out the window. He went there and there was this. There was this story he told me. Coach, tell me if I'm messing it up because the details are important and it's great, but white people do a thing sometimes where they, where, they streak.

Speaker 2: 46:22

They take off all their heels and they run naked and I remember coach telling me this thing about him and some friends just standing at, black friends standing out watching without a word, like almost like when I said the last time, like when a black person makes a sound where they go, hmm, like whatever the hell that is just watching naked white people run by and then one person at the back of the pack is one black guy running naked with white people and I just every time I think about it, I, I like. What a scene.

Speaker 3: 47:00

Yeah, really Stay black out.

Speaker 2: 47:05

I just it's so damn funny. So I know that there the coach has some take on nudity.

Speaker 3: 47:13

I don't think you would ever say oh, you know, you know, yeah, no, yeah, it's, yeah, definitely. The streaking thing is a thing, though, where I'm like I have been around black people drunk out of there, hi, like like never, ever, ever, ever has anyone been like I have an idea. Let's just all strip all our clothes and just go running around. I'm always like really, Now, okay, I should.

Speaker 4: 47:42

I should say, during my money trips to King Spa, the I have seen one family, which means that they are more open and I don't want to say loving family, but they have a different level of openness than my family and I would Cause also it was a mother, father, son, daughter. So, like nobody would, everybody was seeing something. One family one time that I have seen there they were a black family.

Speaker 1: 48:11

Really yes.

Speaker 3: 48:14

I that is. So I'm glad for them. Happy, good, enjoy your lives. I cannot fathom Like I'm trying, like I think I'm, I'm like. My brain is like splitting open as I attempt to envision the bishops walking in ready to, ready to rock and getting some coal baths.

Speaker 2: 48:38

Like we. We have some locks too. Hey man, can you clean up that shit and put it up top and?

Speaker 3: 48:44

put it on your donuts. Yeah, but yeah. So that's, that's. But yeah, I cannot. Like I literally cannot imagine. Like I'm like what? Like I can't like. I can't even come up with the combinations that work. Like, even if I'm like all right, not the whole family who's going into the coal baths with me Naked. It'd be like, I think. Hmm, I think I'm on my own.

Speaker 2: 49:13

How about just you? Just you, no problem.

Speaker 3: 49:18

I'd be. I'd be super, I'd be very uncomfortable. They'd have to be a good reason why I made that choice, but yeah, I'd be, I'd be super uncomfortable. I always wonder about stuff like that and seriously I do like. Even I've thought about, like all right, if, if men, because it sounds like then men and women, like it sounds like it was an all gender space, once you go past a certain point.

Speaker 4: 49:42

Yes, I mean I've entered locker rooms, but then everybody in the bigger space.

Speaker 2: 49:48

I just I mean, have you you've been a nude beach in Europe or anything? Coach you ever been to one?

Speaker 3: 49:53

No, I mean. No, I mean I've been where people decided to make a space, you know, topless or whatever, but I've never been to like a nude beach. But, yeah, even, even that, though I think, like I'm like you mean me dude.

Speaker 1: 50:07

Like I can stay back here.

Speaker 2: 50:11

Yeah, where's the partially nude beach? That's just beach.

Speaker 1: 50:16

That's just beach.

Speaker 3: 50:18

You're partially new and I'm regular beaches.

Speaker 2: 50:20

That's true, you're right. Have you been to a? Have you been to a? Done a nude beach or anything like that, boss?

Speaker 4: 50:28

Not one that was specified as a nude beach. Did I go? Skinny dipping? Yes.

Speaker 2: 50:33

Yeah, no skinny dipping is great. I live in a lake, so that's yeah, that's something that, whatever, but it's less More about the. Usually it's at night.

Speaker 1: 50:41

I would think right. Usually it tends to be at night.

Speaker 2: 50:43

I think it's going to be a different thing and it's less about whatever it's not typically seen.

Speaker 4: 50:51

The point of that is that you were being nude when you're not supposed to.

Speaker 1: 50:54

You go hide in the water. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I've never just been like hanging out, breaking the works.

Speaker 2: 50:58

Yeah, no, and decided yeah, I am my first, my first wife my parents are nudists and so it was a thing where I didn't really get it. But I was like okay, and I remember before we got married there was this pressure for me to visit them on the nude thing and you could have a towel around you. That was like totally acceptable. So I did that, but it was like they couldn't trust me until I got over the oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 3: 51:36

Yeah, so it's almost like, if you have like you, it's almost like physically you're showing that you have something to hide. Like seriously, like I don't mean that in a funny, I'm serious. Yeah, I wonder what that yeah Like on the equivalent of like I wouldn't trust a man who wouldn't have a drink with me, kind of a deal like hmm, what are you up to Like?

Speaker 2: 51:56

Actually, yeah, and I think that they, they were people who had been judged their whole lives and I felt, I feel like this was the only place they felt no judgment or they felt like they were accepted, and I think part of getting rid of the clothes was was you know something? That it was like okay, you can't judge me for my clothes, you just have to whatever.

Speaker 4: 52:15

But it was just judge me on my dog size.

Speaker 3: 52:19

There you go. That's a t-shirt, but, but you know there is a. There is a distinction, though not that this is at all the point of this. We can get back to Nate's crotch now, no, but where the the the different. There's a difference for me, I will say, is I'm now thinking about it between what you described, boss, and the, the streaking, because the streaking is like part of it, is the thrill I would take, I would assume, of people seeing me being naked, also like that's part of it, and there may be some anonymity built in, but that's part of the like, because it's not like you go streaking across your room, you go street, across the campus, where you know people are going to be, whereas for you, I feel like everyone no one showed up here and thought it was a bond and noble, and then found themselves naked, like this is where I left my house to go, this is what you do here. So there's a little. It's a little different that way. But yeah, I didn't even know.

Speaker 2: 53:24

You know what? Before we move on to Nate's crotch, I want to say this this Julie Honorable will kill me if I don't, because she has very specific opinions about this and she's like the human body is beautiful, is beautiful in all its forms, is beautiful as a child, is beautiful as an adult, is beautiful as an old person, is a human body, is inherently beautiful and magical, and something that should be celebrated from birth to death. And the thing that we are is the thing that corrupts. Everything is society is is when we put our stigmas on those bodies. And so I, before we move on, I want to point out that, like, the body is just the body, it's just, it is what it is, and then we are the ones who sexualize it or objectify it or or rate it, or you know what.

Speaker 3: 54:16

I mean.

Speaker 2: 54:17

So, in and of itself, the act of being naked is, you know it's, it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful thing, and and so yes, once again, it's, it's a society that comes in and corrupts. So back to Nate's crotch.

Speaker 3: 54:37

There's a lot of room in Kevin's crotch, yeah, but we're, we also is, but we love the suit. Yes, okay, I'm back. I'm missing where we were. Sorry about that.

Speaker 2: 54:50

Yeah, coach. So they say it's better to have a tight crotch than a loose crotch. You know, this is what this is the discussion.

Speaker 3: 54:56

Right. But, we love the suit. Yes, what do you think?

Speaker 4: 55:01

Sorry, sorry, ross, you got it no no, no, no, I was only going to say I believe the past couple of years, tight crotch has been the style I am sensing, based on things that Timothy Chalmay I sorry I always call him to meet Chablisse in our groups so that I don't know his name or that well, oversized suits seem to be coming back into style again. So get ready for 18 miles of fabric on a jacket.

Speaker 2: 55:29

Just watch whatever.

Speaker 1: 55:31

I say Tom Hiddleston, and I think he probably knows what's going on.

Speaker 4: 55:35

Yeah, yeah, there's David Tennant. Whatever he wore three years ago is what's going to be popular next spring, because he always seems to be on the very cutting edge of fashion. So he sort of stammered me oh what do you think? No, I don't think this is it? No, take it off immediately. Would you guys like a drink? Oh yeah, glass of champagne, all right, thanks. Oh, it's free. And I think that that's one of the signs of a place where I am still not comfortable shopping. Yet I'm not a big into clothes or something that I might find like from a random online store and I'm like oh, modern citizen, I love this dress, I'm going to buy this one. I've never been to a place where they're like you're going to spend so much money that we're going to get you drunk. That's not a thing.

Speaker 3: 56:24

I've been able to do that's. That is horrifying.

Speaker 2: 56:27

It's. Also, I want to point out something that you never you wouldn't think unless you think it, unless you realize it Jaco is filthy rich. Yes, let me just make this point. This is not Macy's. No, like Jaco drives whatever car Jaco wants to drive.

Speaker 2: 56:46

Like these people make, if you see a really good salesperson at this level, like, if they're like more like a concierge than a, they're not selling. You know, they're just kind of guiding and getting. But the price, the price points are so crazy and their commission is so nuts that I saw there was a place in LA. I brought a friend has great, awesome blue collar friend and he needed like a suit. So I brought him to this place in LA and the woman who handled him, she picked his pockets so clean, she had like the part, she was a knockout, stunning and foreign and had an accent and just did the right amount of flirting. And you know what I mean. Like was like anytime he put something on and these are clothes he had never had on in his life. You know what I mean. And and she'd be like, like, like she could just eat him alive, like and he's like. Well, if I'm getting that reaction from her, I'm going to purchase and by the end it was like are you sure you want to get all of these?

Speaker 1: 57:48

I guess I every single, I would never want these moments to end.

Speaker 2: 57:53

I don't know if you ever wore anything but one of the ones that you wear. But these people are. When you got a really good sales room, you know inside sales person.

Speaker 4: 58:05

Yeah, this is like equivalent to the absolutely high end bartenders and wait staff at extremely expensive restaurants. Like this is not a job. You, you are. This is your career. Right, you are doing this for yes, it's a career Right?

Speaker 3: 58:21

Yes, this is not the way we do things across that Bar backing during college to pay for your own weekend drinking.

Speaker 4: 58:28

This is this fucking series. It's so expensive that I feel like I can't get on the block. It's the same as churches. It's churches and very expensive retail shops have a force field that I stay out of and I'm fine with that. I get.

Speaker 2: 58:47

No, you're right, the high end bartenders. You wouldn't believe what I have to a friend, this Turkish guy who I met in acting school and then he went on and got man. We were in New York, we went to the school in New York City and then he, while he was doing his acting, he went in bartending and then he became like this, you know, like a name bar, like when they put his name on the thing. And I remember, you know, six or eight years later I was in college, you know late out of college by then, and I went to visit him. He's like what do you want to drink? You know, he's like running this whole thing. And I was like I don't know.

Speaker 2: 59:21

And I told him a drink that he would get at a bar and he looked at me like something he picked out of, like this, like when I said the drink, he's like, oh my God, like what? How? How have we gotten this far apart? And then he made me something. He's like I'll just, I got it. And he made me something with like flowers or the essence of the flower.

Speaker 3: 59:40

Right.

Speaker 2: 59:42

Oh my God, like you know, it's like you level up and you're like I had. No, I had no idea. Oh, you know, this is better than blood light.

Speaker 1: 59:51

You know, you're just like this you know you're so you don't know. How do you?

Speaker 2: 59:56

you know, it's just but you're right, it's a weight staff to you know career weight like they're really posh and sharp, you know everything, and some old yeas and oh yeah who get to live those lives. Really, there's fascinating people and amazing at what they do.

Speaker 4: 1:00:13

I also will say I'm not going to knock about light, because that is the best camping beer to drink. It's so watery you can drink it all day and it doesn't even matter, and it tastes significantly better than Miller light. Miller light is the garbage beer as far as I'm concerned. Cannot stomach it. A Coors light yeah, I'll fucking take a Coors light. I'll even take a beast if I have to, but I'm not going to drink a Miller light. That swill but Keely actually points out not it's hang of beers.

Speaker 2: 1:00:42

So right, oh, no sorry, the it's the champagne of the. Well, that's the Miller high life. That is the high life.

Speaker 4: 1:00:51

Miller light and high life are different. Miller light is the one that is garbage. I will fight people on this. Bud light is superior to Miller light. This is the most important thing I took away from my big 10 university experience. Keely actually mentions about the free drinks, and when you see the prices, you're going to wish you drank a lot more of it. Hey, so, oh my God, yes, a whiskey. Thank you, please.

Speaker 3: 1:01:19

That was for me. That was laugh out loud Watching him learn this rule of this world, because I wouldn't have known that Like I've never. I shocker everyone, hold on to your seats here. I've never bought clothes in a place where they feel the need to give you booze to help it all go down easier. So I would have been. I would not have assumed any of this, but yeah, so it was funny.

Speaker 2: 1:01:43

Yeah Well, when a suit, when a suit costs as much as a Mazda Miata, you go all right, I better, I better liberally add the alcohol to it to help help the transaction happen. We, we, we pivot from there and now we are, ted running into an office and coach walk us through. What does he see here sitting behind the desk?

Speaker 3: 1:02:06

All right, it's knock, knock, doc, doc. And we have surprised Higgins, who we all know gave up his office once upon a time. Oh, please don't tell me you're taking my office now, which again maybe laugh what? No, I just came up to invite Dr Sharon to Kyle's birthday party tonight. Oh, kyle's birthday is August the 21st. I love, I love that you know that. Ted responds Chuckles. Yeah, I know everybody's birthday. Interesting thing Really.

Speaker 2: 1:02:43

I actually like that they brought this up, because when you're not on Facebook, I know a lot of people are on Facebook and that's where they hear about birthdays, but I'm not on Facebook. Right, and so, therefore, I have to have a means to you know what I mean. Like so either you remember it, or you have some you know app or program or some some way you put it in your Google calendar, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 1:03:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:03:06

The easy way is in the morning on Facebook. People boss. You're not on Facebook either, right? If I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 4: 1:03:12

I still have the account. I don't go on very often. Every once in a while I do have like two anniversaries with my friend Rachel that I need to go back on and be like hey, remember that time I told you your daughter looks like Vigo the Carpathian from Ghostbusters 2? And she was like yes, that was amazing. I'm really glad about our friendship, but I don't check in daily.

Speaker 3: 1:03:33

I'm really glad about our friendship. See you next year.

Speaker 2: 1:03:36

Okay, so that's it. So how do you keep track of birthdays then?

Speaker 4: 1:03:40

I actually, oh my God, I still rely on technology, but when I text people happy birthday, my phone will remember and the next year be like hey, did you remember today is Tony's birthday? Do you want to send him a heavy birthday text? And I'm like yes, I do, thank you. Thank you, my iPhone.

Speaker 2: 1:03:57

Okay, and coach you go to. How do you remember?

Speaker 3: 1:04:01

I'm sort of a mess, but I have some that I would I try to do is, when someone mentions their birthday, who I think I will care to remember that, I try to get it onto my calendar. Because what I find is if I'm in a rush or just happen to not go on Facebook for a couple of days, then I have to deal with an enormous amount and an inordinate amount of guilt that I've missed someone's birthday, as if my happy birthday post on Facebook was what was standing between them and happiness. So that's that's what's going on in my therapy sessions. Yeah, it's like I'm pretty sure the person got 187 birthday wishes. I think they're okay, but I, like I've betrayed our friendship. So I try to have as many reminders available to me as possible.

Speaker 2: 1:04:51

Oh yeah it's weird though on Facebook, because you get, you do get 187, you know, you know, hey, I, you know the wife of this guy used to work with wish me happy. You know there are people who just like, wish whatever.

Speaker 3: 1:05:03

Yeah, whoever's name pops up, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom boom yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:05:06

And I'm like, oh, is that better? Or I don't know, it's a whole it's. It's. It's interesting, it's nice to have people remember, but like getting a really good. I have a one of my sister's ex boyfriend, my favorite of her ex boyfriend, the one I wish she had married. I will text him on his birthday every year. It's three days after my birthday and I will just text him and tell him I love him and we just we just say something stupid, something absolutely idiotic, and then we don't talk for the entire time. We then we just text only he'll text me on my birthday. I'll text him on his.

Speaker 3: 1:05:44

I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:05:45

And that's 16 years now, probably 17, maybe, maybe more, maybe approaching, but like that's it so, and I'd rather get his text than for 14, you know former coworkers to say happy birthday because they saw them. I don't know. I think it's interesting how, how everyone's different about that.

Speaker 3: 1:06:04

Yeah, I'm definitely a hey, let's make it one big party, family, whatever. So the volume does have some impact on me. Now they're definitely people who I'm like. I honestly don't know who this is, so thank you and I appreciate that you took that moment, but okay, you don't know who it is.

Speaker 2: 1:06:23

You genuinely?

Speaker 3: 1:06:24

And that's like. That's to me. That's a little but yeah, but I know what you're pointing at. But yeah, for me I'm probably on the other side of that where it's just like wow, look, people gave a damn that I was born. Like there's something kind of I don't know, comforting is the right word or something that ballpark.

Speaker 4: 1:06:42

I'm sort of in the position where, well, like the last time that I saw my older sister, I said I've never made friends with anybody that I've worked with at a real job. And she said, hey, elinor Shelstra, like what's wrong with you? Why don't you like anybody ever? I was like, wow, it's easier to not only remember five birthdays.

Speaker 2: 1:07:01

I so happy that she called you on your show.

Speaker 1: 1:07:06

Take it from there, coach, you take it, I was like I was like that is wow, that was all of it right there.

Speaker 3: 1:07:15

I laughed so hard.

Speaker 4: 1:07:17

I was just like sorry spoilers for the good place. I don't know when it ended, but if you haven't gotten on it yet, I feel like it's been a while. I would just like to point out that Elinor Shelstra was not the only one who deserved to go to the bad place. It's a thing that we forget about the show. So we're like, oh, she was selfish and she didn't make any friends and she wasn't a joiner. But it's like, wait a minute, maybe all these people sucked, why didn't we? So I'm just saying Chidi is not a better person than Elinor, is Not really.

Speaker 2: 1:07:47

I just want to point out that if the three of us end up in the bad place, boss, I think you'd shrug and be like wow, fuck. So kiss my ass. Whatever, I'm in the bad place, fuck you. And then coach now would go oh really Like what? Like fuck, especially when we saw you coming around the corner and we'd have to spend eternity with you. Coach would be happy about that. I would be like after what?

Speaker 4: 1:08:22

It's the anticipation of having to go to the bad place that's bad. Once you realize you're there, it's like, oh well, I don't know, let's go find Phil Collins I don't even know what's happening right now.

Speaker 3: 1:08:42

Like wait what?

Speaker 1: 1:08:46

I told people like I was like really I was just trying to hear the whiff of the faint sound of Susudio playing in the distance.

Speaker 4: 1:08:55

I felt like if I went for too good, if I was like where's Mother Teresa, that joke wouldn't work. But like Phil Collins, who knows, who knows?

Speaker 3: 1:09:02

Yeah, that's, I think that's where you got me, like I started doing a quick thing Like what do you know about Phil Collins actually? Hey, wait a minute, how come he automatically gets tossed in the good place Like nobody's going to go over his file? Yeah, like what do we really know about the guy.

Speaker 2: 1:09:19

Well, I think it's charming that Higgins has a facility to remember not only people's birthday his family, but Chuck Norris, sharon Stone, I mean he's it's a good, it's a it's a good party trick. So, boss, no, I'm sorry, coach, continue here. Please Tell us what's going on.

Speaker 3: 1:09:43

Yeah, so we go through all the birthdays Chuck Norris, sharon Stone, osama Bin Laden share birthday. Sweet, that's really not random at all. By the way, just going to toss this in, I'm always way too shocked that people share. I talked about this before that people share a birthday. There's only 365 days in a year. I don't know why. I find it so like mind blowing if two of my friends have the same birthday, like, oh my God, how that happened. Like a lot of people have the same anyway, but it's always. I'm always looking for meeting there. That I'm sure doesn't exist.

Speaker 2: 1:10:19

Do you share a birthday with anyone famous boss or coach?

Speaker 3: 1:10:23

Robin Williams for me, so I've always loved that one Nice.

Speaker 4: 1:10:27

Oh, not anybody that I'm like. Oh, I love that we have the same birthday. I'll need to look it up. I will say that I know like 10 people with birthdays within the two weeks of me. Like I know, I'm over 15, it doesn't matter, you can't steal my identity. I already trash it. I know, like a large number of people born between, like November 8th and November 22nd, everybody is banging around Valentine's Day.

Speaker 3: 1:11:02

All right, do the math. That's that spot I was like you said it. I'm like, well, yep, nine, great, yep, can I have the one? Uh-huh, yeah, there you go Banging in February. Coach loves it. Coach loves this.

Speaker 4: 1:11:20

Sam Waterston and I have the same birthday. Okay, I'll take that. And also I will say Johnny Lee Miller, who I enjoy on his own, like elementary was a fine show. He was in train spotting. I like him just fine. I think the most amazing thing about him is Angelina Jolie kept him on Dick Retainer for like 15 straight years Because when she and Brad Pitt broke up she was hanging out with him immediately. He was just like, hey, remember when we banged back in hackers, let's do that again. So great job, johnny Lee Miller.

Speaker 2: 1:11:51

And great job, boss, to bring in the term Dick Retainer.

Speaker 3: 1:11:54

I love that I noted that as well. I was like I didn't know that was a phrase, but it is now. It's a kind of ghost.

Speaker 2: 1:12:06

Hey, no, but yeah, the people I share my birthday with are all have a comma and then a description after them, so you would know what I mean. It's like Frans. Joseph comma, inventor of model trained. You know, like there's nobody, nobody good, we're all suck All right, keep going.

Speaker 3: 1:12:29

All right. So you are good and your right college party was just a cover story for Sharon's going away party. Not bad, huh, as to then he gets the response. I hate to be the beer of bad news, ted, but Sharon's already gone Back to differ. Higgy Stardust, sharon's last day is mañana, yes, but an emergency came up and she has to leave tonight. Wait, she left without saying goodbye. She wrote everybody a letter Mine was very nice, here's yours. No, and he takes off, quite upset, obviously bothered. He's got the whole crinkle over the nose thing going on the whole deal. And he says no, higgins never puts the letter down, just holds it out. And he says don't let her get away with it. Ted, in true season, you later.

Speaker 2: 1:13:25

Yes.

Speaker 3: 1:13:27

And who comes storming back through. Yes, I love, I got, I love this show. But, yeah, I thought that I thought his reaction was great. I thought how Higgins got him back into the room was great too. Yes, it's the silly wordplay and absolutely I get that part, but also as a character Higgins really did think don't be so upset, you missed out on this letter. My letter really was really nice, you should take it. And so I thought it was cool that he was like how can I make that happen? And he came up with that.

Speaker 2: 1:14:10

Yeah, that was nice. It was a nice beat. We got to a two shot of Sam and Kufo in in a Pears and Beard Museum. When I look at this, the still image of this frame, I wonder, oh, I wonder if it's like someday you'll be like. Oh, look at Toby Jimo and Sam Richardson, like you know, when they were little whippersnappers. Now that we know how great they were, you know what I mean. Like 30, 40 years down the road, you might look back at this one shot. Look at a couple little babies they're you know the legends in the making possible.

Speaker 2: 1:14:49

So we have them staring at some art. Wow, I know, right, colleging to Mari yes, work is incredible. Sam says, well, he's Nigerian, so we're going to get a little little chuckle between the two of them. Kufo says, well, I just bought it so I can donate to the Cape Coast Castle Museum in Ghana. This piece belongs in Africa. That for the people that don't know there's. There's something rivalry between some of the African nations, ghana and Nigeria particularly. Sam agrees that it's amazing and Kufo says what coach?

Speaker 3: 1:15:32

Even for Nigerian, so they definitely get in the vibe going. He's a. He's a charmer, oh oh, he's a total he's very interesting, like yeah, he's a charmer. His humor here is not identical to his humor with Ted. No, no no. Right, no, no, god, he, he, he reads and he knows like, okay, this is the vibe we're going for here, which which can be great. I mean, ted does a version of that too, but, and actually I think I think he shows some very interesting Ted qualities throughout all of this.

Speaker 2: 1:16:11

Here's one thing I want to point out, and it's so, it's so crazy. So when I think about a Ghanis and a Ghanian and Nigerian rivalry of any kind, I'm like that's what, based on what I know about the world, that's preposterous. Like are you crazy? Like just team up against white people. Like I'm like what the heck you know? Like why would you ever? And then you think, wait a second, that rivalry it goes back to a tribal rival.

Speaker 2: 1:16:39

We forget about the artificial lines drawn by imperialists in the 1950s, right, you talk about you know these are artificial boundaries, but the tribal rivalries go back thousands of years, thousands which make like. When you say terms like that, you're like like New York said. You know you think about like cities in the United States.

Speaker 3: 1:17:04

That's not even it's not you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:17:06

The couple hundred years, 300 years, you know. So you go. It makes you put things in perspective. You're like okay, so this is like for like, so there's a purity to it now you know what I mean. It's not just like something they're playing up for the purposes of at Lasso, but it's like it's got more depth to it because it's ancient, you know Right.

Speaker 3: 1:17:32

I also like about it. I mean, we talk about Jan Moss, right, he's not being rude, he's being. I think there's something again different things that Ted Lasso does. The show does even not just having their African, like people who talk about Africa as if it's a nation and all that kind of stuff, but to really get and you know that, whether somebody in the room knew these little things that they would catch, or if they just knew who to go to or where to go to get the information, just having a mainstream and quote show that has this moment in it is different.

Speaker 3: 1:18:15

Like I know people all the time are complaining law and order, love of law and order as a franchise, love most of what's come out of there In New York City. It is a travesty to have people doing generic West Indian accents Like that's outrageous. Like on my block I could find you somebody from Trinidad, I could find you somebody from like you don't have to do this. And so I just appreciated the respect of saying like, yeah, these two give each other shit all the time and it's a thing you may not be aware of, but here it is.

Speaker 4: 1:18:51

So it is always a little bit funny like, yes, castle Knight, totally understand your point in terms of, you know, teaming up in order to eliminate classism or racism or all the other sort of isms that exploitative capitalist society puts people into in order to keep us separate, all of those things absolutely. One of my favorite things ever, though, is finding most white people, and I only know this a little bit because Aurora, where I grew up, has a large Latino population, specifically Mexican. The extent to which different Latin American countries fucking hate each other that if you, we talked about this, but I just yeah with the rage it's also not necessary.

Speaker 4: 1:19:38

Well, yes, yes and yes, and yes.

Speaker 2: 1:19:41

But it's not necessarily just hate, it's a, there's a tiered hierarchy. Yes, that is mind boggling.

Speaker 4: 1:19:47

Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:19:48

If you're a white person and you, you don't know that this exists. You're like wait what yes? And people are like, as a white person, you sit up in your palatial estate and your cloud and you think, oh, you know, it's Mexican south of the border or whatever. And then El Salvadorans are like I wish I was Mexican. Wait what yes? You know like I just don't treat it as good as a Mexican. You're like what yes? And then you feel all the but it's, it really is a meme, it's. And again, you never see it.

Speaker 4: 1:20:20

You don't ever see it, and this is part of not just being white, but also being American, and we are extremely insular and we don't pay attention to world events unless people are literally blowing the shit out of each other and all these other things, like the fact that people don't understand that the Middle East itself is not the same as an Arab nation, is not the same as Islam, is not like we can fucking no understanding of anything, but just watching somebody be like oh well, see, we're white people, so we just think we're better than everybody else. That's. Is that not? Is that not how you guys do it? Cause we're assholes and that's how we do it.

Speaker 2: 1:20:57

It is. It is amazing. And then, on top of that I was thinking about, we're also quick to judge.

Speaker 1: 1:21:05

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:21:06

Very quick to judge. I remember I was at a wedding where, where a woman was, the bride was was a Mexican, full-blooded Mexican, and her husband was a Cuban, full-blooded Cuban. And it was like she had stolen the keys, Like she had. Like the Cuban side of family was like how did we let her in? How did the? And I was like, wait, what Like? And then I thought, okay, wait a second. I grew up in a small town and if you tell me, just if you say, oh, meet this person, and they grew up right next door to you, then the town next to you, and I said, oh, yeah, where'd you grow up? And they say, oh, I grew up in this town, I would go like, fuck you. I'm like, oh, I don't even like the people in the next town, you know. And I'm like, where?

Speaker 1: 1:21:57

am I? Who am I to?

Speaker 2: 1:21:57

judge. You know, here I, I can't even. We're so tribal in so many ways it always goes back to us versus them, you know it's just such a natural default mechanism.

Speaker 4: 1:22:08

And it's fucking terrible, except for Naperville, because Naperville blows yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:22:13

There you go, there you go. You've talked about Naperville quite a bit.

Speaker 4: 1:22:18

Fucking Naperville.

Speaker 3: 1:22:20

But, but. But I think to those sort of other other direction or whatever. When I first got to to Polly because I've told a story before first through sixth grade public school almost all black and brown kids seventh to 12th grade sort of like flipped. Oh, like I was one of few black around kids around it From seventh to 12th grade and I still remember being legit blown away that Italian people and Irish people saw themselves as different from one another.

Speaker 2: 1:22:58

I'm gonna be, like what.

Speaker 3: 1:23:01

Like legit, like not no jokes, no, when they started giving each other shit, I was like I just thought you were all white people Like I like, and I think I don't know what's happening. But I think all the things you've said you've each said about learning these distinctions. But I also think it does help you understand the world better to take the time to learn some of these distinctions. I'll never know what it's like to be an Irish person going back and forth within the time. I like, okay, that's fine, but there's some.

Speaker 3: 1:23:35

There is some value in understanding that there are these distinctions, like when I went to see my big, fat Greek wedding and I was like I recognize these folks because I went to school with some Greek folks and I get this right, but getting that they might not. That it's not the same thing, that it's not the same experience. So the conversation you're having with them has to have its distinctions, and I do, and I feel like we get ourselves in trouble with that in all sorts of ways. I'm really talking earlier about oh, that's a feminine quality, like having a we don't, I mean like, but we're masterful at attribute, adding these things that divide us.

Speaker 2: 1:24:11

Even when you say Greece, I'm like, oh my God, like I always think about all my Jewish friends and I kind of wish it was Jewish. I'm stuck being Greek.

Speaker 3: 1:24:21

I know.

Speaker 2: 1:24:21

We all hate each other Because the defining thing people know about Greece is the city states, the Polis system. P-o-l-i-s.

Speaker 1: 1:24:30

And they all fought each other.

Speaker 2: 1:24:32

The only thing that kept them together was an existential threat from Persia. It was the only thing that could bring them together Like what could possibly develop if we don't all die.

Speaker 2: 1:24:40

And it's still, it's in this day. If you go, the thing I always joke about is is you go to like a Greek church function and some churches are better than, in fairness, there are some lovely Greek Orthodox churches but sometimes you'll go to a function and you know there's just like a lot of whispering and a lot and you're like, oh my God, I hate this environment. You know my dad my dad was, my dad was in the Peace Corps and when he was 69, he joined and he was out there for a year and then started dating a local Interesting.

Speaker 2: 1:25:17

And then it was for, you know, it had dinner and drinks or something, nothing, nothing. But she was a Hutu. And then after that he dated a Tutsi for another two weeks and then it was like a thing. It was like the Mizungu from the Mizungu is a white person in Swahili, so it was like they're like, oh, the Mizungu is like causing conflict because that he's and he's like, literally dinner. So you know, it wasn't like, but yeah the thing, yeah the thing.

Speaker 4: 1:25:52

This is not.

Speaker 2: 1:25:54

I'm like do you know he's the dumbest man? Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, like it's always Isn't?

Speaker 3: 1:25:57

that interesting.

Speaker 2: 1:25:58

But yeah, it's crazy crazy.

Speaker 4: 1:26:01

I think the Midwestern version of that is. When I was in middle school my Spanish teacher got married and I heard one of the teachers whispering one time about it being an interfaith marriage because she was Lutheran and he was Methodist. I was like bitch.

Speaker 2: 1:26:19

Wow, that's a lot. That interfaith really really really no, no, no, that's a, that's a, but it's again, it's a device.

Speaker 1: 1:26:30

Right, right, my mom was pre-orthodox.

Speaker 2: 1:26:32

when she married my dad, who was Lutheran, the Greek church excommunicated.

Speaker 4: 1:26:36

Yeah, well that's the thing, the ex-unit wow she ex-unitated her.

Speaker 2: 1:26:39

She had to like work for 15 years at the church, basically to earn back her theoretical entrance to heaven. So you go like what it you know, is it crazy?

Speaker 4: 1:26:51

It doesn't make any sense, other than I was vaguely raised in the Irish Catholic culture, definitely not the church itself. But given that that's my only background, I'm like oh, you fucking heathens out there, every single one of you evangelical assholes. I don't know what you're doing or what your sect is or what's happening. All I know is it's not the right form of the religion I don't believe in.

Speaker 2: 1:27:15

I mean look at Northern Ireland, look, I mean it's, it's it, you just go, it's not.

Speaker 3: 1:27:20

Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:27:21

Talk about owls, old white ladies. I remember when my grandmother I think it was a lovely lady my father's we were in Lutheran church and they invited a couple Invited. They invited the pastor had had done a fellowship, something you know down south, and they invited a couple of Baptists up to join us in whatever in a worship.

Speaker 3: 1:27:50

And I was, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:27:51

I told I left the church when I was very young, but I remember, you know, not a perceptible eye role, but you know, my grandma was in her. I am she was probably 90 by then and there was like some sort of a little more frolic, some behavior from the Baptists than she was used to, and she was like mm, like mm-hmm, like we're gonna do this is what we're, we're gonna have these Baptists just kind of dancing down the aisle and I don't know about that. You know, like wow, wow, it's amazing.

Speaker 3: 1:28:25

The.

Speaker 2: 1:28:26

Thing you do to drive us or drive wedges between ourselves. It is fundamentally nuts and we do everything. And when?

Speaker 3: 1:28:33

you say. Sorry, coach, I didn't mean to. But when you say we do, I mean we really do this Like they, like I wish I could remember the specific name of the camp blah, blah, blah. But my first like class I took in college. We went over this, the in group, out group thing, and it is so real like they would have. You know the battle. You know some sort of intramural, essentially tight battle within a camp and then the next week we're gonna compete against the other camp and people who had been like fighting to the death this week, next week completely rallied against like what you were saying about Greece.

Speaker 3: 1:29:10

And it's a real thing. Like this isn't just like you look at history and start thinking like, oh, that must be what happened. Like this is a thing, it has been looked at. We absolutely do this.

Speaker 2: 1:29:22

Juliana has a cousin who's a bartender in Brooklyn and he was like it's a clearly there's a Yankees bar that he is the bartender.

Speaker 2: 1:29:33

Oh, wow, and it sees me in my base in my Red Sox cap like, which is like a cap I had, like I don't you know what I mean, I've probably watched two Red Sox games in the last five years and but I have one, so I had it on. He's like, yeah, if you came into my bar wearing that, like first of all you get thrown out, but you'd be lucky if you're not beat up. And I'm like this is what we do, like as soon as you know, as soon as coach I'm thinking back to when you and I met 30, whatever years ago, and we say yeah you're.

Speaker 2: 1:30:00

I'm a Patriots fan, you're a Giants fan only because of where we grew up Basically, and neither one of us, like you know, wear it on our sleeve or anything. That's just something we, you know. This is where this is the region, but it's. It becomes right there, point of contention, you know, and it's like, not not like in a in a terrible way, but we as humans, the species, but it's real, we're great at divide.

Speaker 2: 1:30:25

We're really great at at driving wedges and picking sides and making it us versus them. It's like it's the lowest. I'm trying to think of the author, the Harvard professor years ago who did this. The levels of tribalism, damn it. I'm gonna forget it, but I'll put it in the remember. I always, I always refer to it because I always find it fascinating. But it's like the lowest level of the tribalism the us versus them. And then you, as you get older and you and you expand your mind and you start to, you know, think more globally and more inclusively. But the lowest, the first tier of that, is the most basic tribalism. He's not even from round here, which I always quote because I love that line so much.

Speaker 3: 1:31:09

That's the first you have. You have given me that one, so you know it's interesting. You say this looking at Ted Lasso through this lens. Isn't that what this is? And for those of you who've watched Rocky 4, which you know obviously is part of the Western Canon, when you know if I could change, I really could change.

Speaker 3: 1:31:33

Right, like you know, now Russia loves Rocky and everything's gonna be okay, and there's something going from Wanker, wanker, wanker. Through what we've seen so far and what we see in this series, it kind of feels like in part it's the story of sort of moving out of that tribalism to a much higher place Within the team, beyond the team, his relationship to Richmond in general. Yeah, anyway, I'm not sure what to you know what I mean. I'm not sure what all to do with that, but there's something I'm not sure that the show did it intentionally on that level, but, as in that framing, there's a real interesting progression that includes the stuff we've referenced. Like you know, I don't think I'll hold onto this Arivan American imperialism. You know like, oh right, there's another way to see that other than we are the best, we are number one. We should just go around the world and tell people what to do Interesting.

Speaker 2: 1:32:35

Yeah, you make a good point. It really does sort of come down to that and a different way of looking at that. But we're back in the museum. What got us into this was the Ghanian and Nigerian divide. Samoma walking in Confliction. I'm a billionaire. I am a billionaire, yet I don't believe billionaires should exist. Talk about saying the right thing to Samoma Sanya. That's why I'm breaking up my father's empire. He says I'm using the money to make better things and hopefully make things better. Okay, so who was saying was it a boss? Were you saying he's a clever son of a bitch? That he's a? He is a.

Speaker 4: 1:33:21

I believe that that was Coach who specifically said it, although I do agree with his point. I also there is something to me about saying I am a billionaire and I don't believe that billionaires should exist. But he then immediately takes it to, and here is the action that I'm doing, because you can say like, oh well, I don't think white people should be in charge. But it's like okay, how are you trying to be anti-racist? What are you doing?

Speaker 2: 1:33:50

If this is not, exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:33:51

I would have voted for Obama the third time, but sort of it's like oh well, that's a great hypothetical. Have you donated?

Speaker 2: 1:33:58

to the Ghanian.

Speaker 4: 1:34:00

Have you donated any money to the NAACP, by any chance? Have you done anything? No, okay, cool.

Speaker 3: 1:34:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:34:10

Yeah, that's a good point. I hope it makes things better. Sam says you're not at all what I expected. You don't even know security detail. All right, now, that's surprising for a billionaire, right? And why is that, Coach? Why isn't the office security detail?

Speaker 3: 1:34:29

That would be because he bought out the entire museum and filled it with actors. Wait, what Holy shit Like wow, okay, he chuckles, I thought. And then we get. I thought I recognized him from I May Destroy you standpoints, so okay, the jig is clearly up. It's over.

Speaker 2: 1:34:54

That's a great little beat. The guy bows like that, yeah, like all right?

Speaker 3: 1:34:59

Yeah, thanks for recognizing me. So there, so are you hungry, starving, and I know a perfect place. We have someone walk up. Edwin, it's good to see you. This is my friend, sam. Hey, you all right? Great, lovely to meet you, congratulations. You both just met a cool person. I was like, okay, so I was making that up. There's a lot of Ted to this, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:35:29

I was like wow, I mean word for word. So they obviously didn't want us to miss that and so, cheers, see you. Pretty cool, eh what? That was Banksy. Banksy, which is hilarious. It's just, like, you know, sort of sloppy. I mean a shirt tail, I mean a shirt tail is out. I mean this sloppy sort of all over the place.

Speaker 2: 1:35:52

It's from the middle age.

Speaker 3: 1:35:55

Oh, middle-aged white guy is Banksy. Okay, I mean it could be right. I mean we well, I don't know what I assume, I don't know. I see more like jockeau with like political leanings or something, but that could be Banksy, why not?

Speaker 2: 1:36:10

Banksy's not a woman right, but does it Well clearly.

Speaker 3: 1:36:12

I always think Banksy is a woman.

Speaker 2: 1:36:14

Just because.

Speaker 3: 1:36:16

I think that would be brilliant.

Speaker 2: 1:36:17

because I'd be brilliant, because no one thinks of it that way.

Speaker 3: 1:36:20

I think everybody assumes yeah everybody. Why do I think Banksy's a man? Now that that's been said all out, I totally assume Banksy was a man, Like until this conversation today.

Speaker 2: 1:36:33

Yeah it's like scream, isn't that interesting? Yeah, oh, boss is going to say something. Yes, boss.

Speaker 4: 1:36:44

I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I feel like the the exit through the gift shop made a pretty strong implication that Banksy is a man, or maybe it just went with that, but yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 1:36:58

No, no, yeah, without a doubt.

Speaker 4: 1:37:00

And I feel like, given that, that is supposed to be the documentary about Banksy, that's it.

Speaker 1: 1:37:04

But I don't know.

Speaker 4: 1:37:06

I don't think that Banksy is a child anymore. But Banksy could have been a kid at the time. Who knows no idea who Banksy is. Banksy is like a fucking death punk.

Speaker 3: 1:37:17

I don't know, maybe they're all the same person?

Speaker 4: 1:37:19

I can't tell you for sure.

Speaker 2: 1:37:23

Have you ever seen a?

Speaker 4: 1:37:24

Banksy. I've seen a Bank. Is that anything?

Speaker 2: 1:37:31

Yeah, that's something Cool, yeah, good.

Speaker 3: 1:37:35

I feel like that was only said to make coach go. Really, wait, I'm not even sure a boss thought that was funny for her. No so much, she thought it would be funny to watch your face and she said it.

Speaker 2: 1:37:53

Yeah, okay, so we're back at now. We're back at the shopping spree with Keely. She's now sitting on the couch and Jaco is shagging different outfits for them, and out comes Nate, and he is. He is all head to toe Slick black shiny. I don't know what the material is. He's pretty tricked out in this. He looks like a bond villain, right In this kind of get up, right.

Speaker 3: 1:38:31

Yeah, yeah, the all black is definitely a trace.

Speaker 2: 1:38:35

And he says yeah. She says yeah and she says what, what? This is a key thing to which sort of informs where this scene is going to go. Boss, what does Keely say from the couch as he asks her how he looks?

Speaker 4: 1:38:50

You look so hot. Of course she does mean it in the same way that she, you know, earlier bent down to very medically inspect the crotch on the suit. So she doesn't mean you're so hot, I want to rip your clothes off.

Speaker 2: 1:39:05

She means, wow, you look great, yeah, that's her, that's how she says it. She says I just want to fix your tie for one second, okay. She goes up and touches it up. And what does he say here, coach?

Speaker 3: 1:39:20

Thanks so much, by the way, you're so good at everything and you're always helping people and making things better so that she, just like you, they have their chuckle. And then, do you ever, do you ever, feel like you want to be the boss? Yeah, they kind of agree on that. They both have wanted that. And then she says I mean, I did used to worry that I was going to end up like my mom which is this the first we've heard about this. I feel like it is Okay.

Speaker 3: 1:39:58

And then she spent years working at the same company tirelessly, just for a man to take all the credit. She wasn't brave enough to dream big, so I decided to do things very differently. And then I met Rebecca and she inspired me to want to be a boss. People like you and I, we can't help but dream big, and no one is going to fight harder for their dreams than us. Right, right, the scariest part of all of it is making the decision to just go for it, because once you do that, then everything just sort of falls into place and Nate falls into kissing Keeley and that was not the most awesome choice ever. That did not go the way it went in his head at all. Yeah, that's what she made by hot. It's not what she meant by.

Speaker 3: 1:40:53

It's what I'm putting together here.

Speaker 2: 1:40:55

But yeah, not what she meant by saying bucket and passing aside the spursions and going for it. Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:41:09

Okay, there's a lot going on in this scene and I think we definitely would dive into it. I will say, having been on either side of this type of kiss it is uncomfortable, doesn't begin On either side of it, it is so it is just. I find it hollowing, like I could think of when I was receiving it, when in both cases I just felt like why can't I just disappear or exist on a different timeline, like can we just make life not be like I want? This is the worst. And so I felt I very much, especially for Keely here, because, good God, she was just fixing a guy's tie and now she's been kissed and what did she fucking do with that? So, anyway, I just just the height of discomfort for me in this moment.

Speaker 4: 1:42:14

So the moment is extremely uncomfortable. I have to admit, I was trying to think if there's ever been a time where I have been either the recipient or the donor is wrong. But whatever, I don't think I've actually ever had this happen to me in real life. Donor, donor.

Speaker 2: 1:42:35

I don't know why that is Exactly. I don't know if I just made it very clear, don't you declare I'm going to kiss you like later tonight Once? I have a couple of margaritas. I'll be kissing you later, and so that takes away a lot of pain.

Speaker 4: 1:42:49

Yeah, yeah, no, I guess maybe usually I get the awkwardness out of the way first where I'm like hey, so I'm going to try to make out with you and then, if it's uncomfortable, I'll be like oh, that was a joke, I was talking to the person behind you.

Speaker 4: 1:43:01

Don't worry about this. So yeah, extremely uncomfortable. I have not lived this experience, Luckily. I think what was interesting for me is the way that what Nate was responding to was that he wants to be the boss. He thinks Keely wants to be the boss. He was a not imagining, but inferring some sort of connection between the two of them, that each one of them wants to be the boss and isn't, and it was almost like he was looking for a. Don't you think it's unfair that we aren't in charge? Isn't this something that we could agree on?

Speaker 4: 1:43:35

And even more interesting then, what Keely said for reasoning for wanting to be the boss was I think I do not buy into the like sort of I don't know John Snow level of reluctant leader, where the person who doesn't want to be have the glory of being in charge is the person who should be in charge. I can already hear my older sister screaming at me that that is a John Snow thing. I'm sorry, I know I'm sorry, but like I, I want the person who is good at the job to have the job. And if you want the job and make yourself good at the job, that is the person I want to charge. And so what they're talking about is a little bit more of almost the glory of being the boss than necessarily. I want the responsibility, I want the duty of having to do these things.

Speaker 4: 1:44:24

Yes, they're talking about the recognition, or at least Nate is very much talking about the recognition.

Speaker 3: 1:44:29

Yep.

Speaker 4: 1:44:30

Keely is talking about that also, but she's also talking about allowing herself to want things that she thinks her mother or whoever else felt that they weren't entitled to. And so there's a difference between I want this job, to be in charge I want this job because I'm going to kick this job's ass and I want to be in charge because I want the glory of being in charge.

Speaker 3: 1:44:54

Yeah, I'm really glad you pointed that out, because for me, leader I've thought about it in terms of the American presidency so many times and just that, generally speaking, and I mean this as like for me, a leader, a fact that not as a judgment of like the bad character, a good character you have to have a certain fundamental hubris to be like I should be in. I should be personally in charge of hundreds of millions of people like that, but I mean it's hard to get around that, and so I think it does attract certain kinds of people. I like your distinction, though, because I think just maybe wanting to be in some part of that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't then go about the business of earning it. I think Nate's version that he's presenting is I want to be heralded. It's not, I want to be a great leader, right, like, even when he talks about it in terms of the team. If he wants to win, he wants to win because then people will say Nate is a genius, yes, whereas I think the coaches, even coaches I've come across and there's a famous coach Damn it, I'm not going to think of his name coach, he, he, he's been, he's using Portugal and he's like famous for like being a jerk. I'll look him up. I'll look him up because he's like super famous in the football world. And now, now I'm going to feel so conscious that I didn't want to name but he, he just struck me as full of self-confidence, doesn't even begin to capture it. It's borderline narcissism.

Speaker 3: 1:46:46

But his love for his team was so evident, so like in his thinking of himself as his grand leader, it led him to do things that he even crossed the line at one point. He got suspended for a game and it was going to be a huge game, and so he snuck in hours before and hid in the fucking locker room and then had to be like snuck out because the officials figured out like if we don't see his ass in the stands, we guarantee you he's in this fucking building somewhere. And so they went looking for him and he was in the locker room. So he dove in a laundry bin and like a guy had to like take him out in the laundry bin so that he wouldn't get like this. But to me, even though, like don't do that, kids, let's respect room, suspend to tap it. But another part of me got how he got there and it wasn't I'm so great. It was my guys need me and somehow that was a distinction and I can see Keely going to some places that maybe we would be like.

Speaker 3: 1:47:51

I'm just sure about that In the name of I'm needed or in the name of this is for the team or for whatever I've decided. Is this great or good? I think Nate would always want it to be. I would want to be whatever he said he want to be. A where do you say would be a tiger or a leopard or whatever, so he could ravage anybody who looked at him wrong. I think he's. He's constantly coming from that energy in that place. No, coach, coach folders arms. I can't tell if he's folding his arms because he didn't like that or he's just thinking about it.

Speaker 2: 1:48:21

No, no no, no, no, I think it going back to you want to rather be lion or panda? Yes, all that stuff, and I was trying to.

Speaker 2: 1:48:31

I was thinking about you, coach, as a coach, and I was thinking how that the only ego of your coaching and it is big. There's a huge ego part of it and that is your friend, me, who has tried to cut your external ego because you are so content, coach Nine year old girls playing flag football and I'm like no, I had to beg and plead and be like you are so good. Now you are the coach of a professional franchise and I'm like it's true.

Speaker 2: 1:49:13

It's like the only part of this is ego. For you, it's funny Like if there was any ego tied up in any of this, it would be like, am I like if someone came, If we were talking behind the scenes, whatever, and you overheard and somebody was like you know what, like, there's one coach in the city that really loves his team and it's Fred Jones. You'd be like you would be, so I love my team the best. Your ego is tied up with the success. You don't have that, that whatever Nate is looking for.

Speaker 1: 1:49:48

No, no, no, that's not, that's not my part at all. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:49:51

Yeah, it's not my part, but yeah, so it's interesting. I think too he probably imagines oh, my first team, my first teamie, I guess. Right Like I think probably in this fantasy this kiss happens and then Keely and he are a thing and that that's part of the ascension. Right, he went to her in the first place. Make me famous, right Like. I think he sees Keely as like getting it and, frankly, keely is someone who does, in many ways, get treated and regarded the way he would like to be treated and regarded Like. Who doesn't think Keely is cool? Everybody Keely has two of the biggest iconic alpha male characters here, like ready to off each other to be the one standing next to her.

Speaker 4: 1:50:49

And I think that that's really key with understanding each of their motivations. I don't want to say either one of them is wrong. I don't think that there is one that is right. I think that I am not as in love with the Harry Potter franchise, given some things about its creator, but that's beside the point.

Speaker 3: 1:51:07

Right.

Speaker 4: 1:51:08

I am a Slytherin, I am hardcore Slytherin. I don't actually have a lot of ambition. You don't say oh go figure, oh wait you.

Speaker 2: 1:51:16

Don't say Interesting Slytherin. Well, that's where the absurdity happened. I'm shocked.

Speaker 4: 1:51:22

I can't, I can't.

Speaker 2: 1:51:23

Did the hat ever ever touch your head before you were? No.

Speaker 4: 1:51:27

And also I would like to mention I believe that Slytherin's get a bad rap in general. It is not that they want to be bad, it is that they. What I think is, I don't even want to be in charge, but I do want things to be done correctly, and so if there is one group out of that bunch, that is like we are going to.

Speaker 3: 1:51:46

Interesting.

Speaker 4: 1:51:47

Put in place smart rules that are fair and good for everybody, and then we are going to enforce those fucking rules and everybody's going to do what they're supposed to do. That is the Slytherin part of me, and so if I ever become a boss of anything, it will be because I want to implement a really good process for an overall goal that I believe in. I don't care about being in, I don't want to boss people around, I don't give a fuck about that. I think what Keely is saying is I want to not have anybody else tell me what to do, because I watched my mom be minimized by people telling her what to do. So for her, being the boss is sort of a level of freedom that she gets to live out her dreams and do what she wants to do.

Speaker 4: 1:52:32

And his is. I am going to make everybody understand they were wrong to think I wasn't the best person in the room, the smartest.

Speaker 3: 1:52:39

About down before me.

Speaker 4: 1:52:40

Yeah, I'm kind of like you are going to give me the external validation that I need, because none of you asked how smart it was before.

Speaker 2: 1:52:52

I love that. I want to point out that in the there's a video game called Hogwarts Legacy where you get to go through and play as as as a character at Hogwarts Not Harry Potter, obviously not A similar type of character and they have sort of a.

Speaker 2: 1:53:14

They break it down house by house and they have the reason I bring this up. I'm curious what, if this designation fits you, and also who coach? What house coach would be sorted into? They have bravery for Gryffindor. They have curiosity for Raven OK, which is not how I historically have seen Ravenclaw but interesting Loyalty for Hufflepuff and ambition.

Speaker 4: 1:53:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:53:40

Absolutely.

Speaker 4: 1:53:42

So which a number one Bishop is Gryffindor hardcore Castleton, you are Hufflepuff, no question, you both.

Speaker 2: 1:53:51

Yeah, hufflepuff, you think that's where I am.

Speaker 4: 1:53:53

Absolutely you both might have a little Ravenclaw leaning. This is like. This is my version of the horoscope, like what's your moon's house and what's your sign house, I do think that the reducing Slytherins to only ambition is sort of it.

Speaker 4: 1:54:09

Only if we also acknowledge that ambition does not always necessitate personal gain or personal recognition. If you say, like I want to, my ambition in the world is to help an organization that will eliminate food insecurity in the United States. That ambition is not about selfishness or self-recognition. My ambition is I want to tackle this huge fucking problem. I do think I'm smart enough to do that. I do think that I'm competent. I absolutely 100% believe that. But it's not because I want people to say that I'm the smartest coach in the Premier League, it's just because I want the fucking problem solved. I think a lot of Slytherins are unfairly maligned by believing it's all about self-recognition and that is not true.

Speaker 2: 1:55:00

I Mean I can believe.

Speaker 4: 1:55:04

Number one a lot of my favorite people would be Hufflepuff. Number two you guys are right next to the kitchen. You have the bus next. There's no reason to not be friends with Hufflepuff, that's awesome.

Speaker 3: 1:55:13

That's, that's, that's great. I love what you thought about it, I am, I Am. I pulled up the BuzzFeed quiz, so, just everyone else, I am going to take this BuzzFeed quiz. I remembered that it existed, so I will. I will notify everyone. A bridge, which house, I admit it's Gryffindor. Is it?

Speaker 4: 1:55:31

it's Gryffindor.

Speaker 3: 1:55:32

I believe you, I totally believe.

Speaker 2: 1:55:38

Yeah, so Nate drops one on Keely here. So sorry, that's okay. No, it's not. He says, which I actually like Him like shit. No, it's not. Yes, it is, don't worry. No, no, it's not, it was, it happened some time. To the best of me. Says it's not, it's fine. I just thought, oh my god, I'm gonna go get out of this, don't worry about it, I do worry.

Speaker 3: 1:56:01

He says, when he says get out of this. I thought that was interesting Because it plays in a number of different ways get out of this situation, get out of the store, get out of right this whole thing, but also get out of this suit. I put on this fucking suit. I started thinking I was something more than what I am and I. That's what made me kiss you and that's what allowed me to kiss you, I mean, in a practical way too. Now he's been drinking, so the old inhibitions aren't what they might have been otherwise. So there's that. But I thought when he said that I felt like he was like this was a very bad experiment. This is not who I am. Obviously I don't. I really don't belong here. I'm gotta go.

Speaker 2: 1:56:42

Yeah, I mean he definitely. Yeah, he's gotta get out of this and everything else soon as he departs. He Lee says what boss? She says shit, yeah, which I was like oh, that's a really. There's so much in that. One word in my home and you're like here we go like this is now yeah, that's exactly, yes, that feeling when you're like.

Speaker 3: 1:57:10

Oh five seconds ago.

Speaker 4: 1:57:11

Yeah, this is a thing, there's a, that's something I have to deal with and I Would like to mention as much as the scene was uncomfortable. I appreciate that Nate said no, it's not fine, like no, I am gonna worry about it as bad it. For. As much as I like calling out people when they are being shitty or being dicks or whatever else, I do think that we should have an easier process for letting people for some sites make their way back like Sorry, harvey Weitzstein, no you're, you got a dying person.

Speaker 3: 1:57:44

Like you, like I don't know what to do about you, but yeah, other people that fuck up a little bit.

Speaker 4: 1:57:49

We, I do think we pretty desperately, along with the like recent conversations we've had about Holding men accountable for the actions to women, holding the police accountable for their actions to black people, holding everybody accountable for the shit that they're doing we do need a way of talking about Okay, you fucked up, it's not the end of the world, but let's talk about what we do wrong and how we fix it in the future.

Speaker 3: 1:58:13

Also. First of all, yes to what you just said, and I and I get kind, I get frustrated when I feel like there seems to be a conscious choice not to allow certain people away back. So a quick example. And then where I was originally going, michael Vic is my sort of like poster child for this, because what he did with the dogs Horrible, right, you know who thinks that Michael fucking Vic, michael Vic went to prison, yeah, then he came out. He wouldn't talk to kids, he learned about all this stuff. He told them don't be a dummy like me, don't do this shit. It's no good. Like. I feel like at some point in that process he did the thing. That should mean like okay, but it doesn't mean we forget you ever did it. But okay, you, you did a thing. You recognize it was no good, we're gonna move forward and I just feel like there's anything anyway around around him with that. But what I also like about what you pointed out and it's not something can I, can I jump in?

Speaker 3: 1:59:21

Of course, of course, of course used to be.

Speaker 2: 1:59:23

Used to be like okay, if you did your time, that was considered like sort of like that was considered.

Speaker 3: 1:59:29

That's it.

Speaker 2: 1:59:29

That's, you've did your time for the thing, you owned it, and then whatever. And on top of that he came out and then he tried to change my. He tried to say, like I have grown and I want to help and I want. I don't want anyone to get through through the same thing. And when you listen to him, if you're student of people at all, there's no artifice about it. He's like I didn't, I didn't know like I was this. I grew up, everybody did it. I didn't, you know what I mean. And he. But he doesn't say he doesn't excuse himself for that, he doesn't exonerate himself. He says and that's how. That's an explanation of how it happened. But then he has gone on since then to to try to you know, educate and grow.

Speaker 3: 2:00:06

Let's not do this yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:00:07

So he already did his time. He did the time and then on top of it he has, you know, worked and he's still doing it to this day, still working. It's for these causes and donating money and it's like, okay, I mean yeah. I wonder why people aren't giving him a road back.

Speaker 3: 2:00:26

Well, that's the end. So I think too, though, yes, would. And then also that they have to be degrees of things, right, like, like, like, boss, you mentioned Harvey Weinstein likes, should Nate have kissed keely without Verbal Affirmative consent? No, like, again, neat thinks that. And somehow we have to have a way of saying this kiss is not okay Without saying, and you go in the bucket with Cosby and Weinstein yeah, like it's like, yeah, how do we and I feel like we're really not good at that, I feel like like, so slightly, we are actively bad, right, I mean, just like, what is the problem? Yeah, societally.

Speaker 4: 2:01:10

We're really, really bad about that. I think that it feels it. What I hate most is that it somehow feels like an individual moral victory to decide I am not going to forgive X, I'm not going to forgive this person, and that is me taking a stand. No, you're not taking a stand. You just think that, louis.

Speaker 4: 2:01:31

CK is an asshole and Louis CK is an interesting case for me. I was a big fan of his comedy. I thought he made a lot of really great points. I think what he did was really despicable.

Speaker 4: 2:01:43

I also think that there was a way at one point when what he could have said was I did a lot of really horrible shit to win it like I did. I did some pretty bad. I abused my position of power. I took advantage of my proximity to these people women who were up and coming, like I. I I did all of this really really fucking badly and I'm going to go away and do some deep thinking and understand, like try to make amends for how badly I fucked their careers and all the Terrible shit that I did. And instead what he did was say, oh no, that wasn't me, I didn't do it, they're lying, those bitches are lying. And then when it finally became clear, like oh no, they're definitely not lying, he put out a shitty statement where he didn't apologize and then went straight to making right wing like anti trans jokes and I'm like, hey, buddy, you could have fixed this train wreck 20 years ago. You could have made this better.

Speaker 3: 2:02:38

10 years ago.

Speaker 4: 2:02:39

You could have yeah, I had a lot of different points, started to do the work that would have been required in order to not make you a shitty person, but now you just decided to go and be a shitty person, so I don't have to worry about you. I don't have to hate, you, because that doesn't actually feel like a moral victory for me, but like now you fucking suck.

Speaker 3: 2:02:59

Yeah, yes, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 2:03:01

Okay, coach, you got to go, I just want to say real quick I think it really gets really grinds. My gears about the whole thing is when they decide it's time for them to come back.

Speaker 4: 2:03:11

Oh fucking.

Speaker 2: 2:03:11

Christ, stay the fuck away. Like, like, I'm not a huge, I don't the whole cancel culture thing or whatever. I'm torn on a lot of it and what and all that stuff, but I but I Like I want them away. You know what I mean. And they, if society wants them back, decided, will let them know, I think. But like hate when they force their way back in oh, they're doing shows.

Speaker 3: 2:03:34

I'm like uh, yeah, Also, I think we absolutely have a right to say we don't like that.

Speaker 3: 2:03:45

Yeah, yeah hey, uh, someone's those coming to town. I don't want them in my fucking town. I don't want them on billboards. I don't care to endorse that. That's a thing I want around me and I don't. That, in itself, is. This is where I, like you could. I found myself torn because that, in itself, I absolutely don't have a problem with. I think it's how we've Managed to build. Whatever a society we've managed to build is to say this okay, that, not okay, right.

Speaker 4: 2:04:13

Yes, yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:04:15

Um.

Speaker 2: 2:04:15

It will also separating the artist from the art is a huge problem. That's really, that's a and it's really yeah, and we all make our distinctions.

Speaker 3: 2:04:23

I, I go on and on about r Kelly. Meanwhile, there are a number of musical artists who, when you hear their story, it's like that's not great yeah that is not great.

Speaker 2: 2:04:36

You know how many Michael Jackson songs are on?

Speaker 3: 2:04:39

Oh, my god, I like how am I supposed to?

Speaker 2: 2:04:41

give up because I'm like I'm giving up. Why would I give up me Like this was me then? I didn't know that any of the shit right, so I'm like okay. And then, uh, I always talk about um. One of the movies we watch at Christmas is the breath, which starts like a brilliant Kevin Spacey and I'm like oh God, and and.

Speaker 3: 2:05:00

I'm so.

Speaker 2: 2:05:01

You know I mean but, but I'm like well, this is my movie, like Right, it's, it's it is so difficult because it means something to you and the art means something I know, coach, like Jesus Christ, I mean Bill Cosby.

Speaker 3: 2:05:16

Oh, was formative, like seriously, like like no bullshit, no jokes aside. I remember thinking like, okay, north star got it, like that was the impact of of the Cosby show, my life, and I'll tell you interesting, my uh, my therapist is black, um, and he said that is a thing, like that is a thing with black people like that. They will come in and specifically talk about the Cosby show and how their life has or hasn't moved toward that model and what that has meant to them or what they are family growing up compared to like I'm not sure you could have pulled a larger rug out from under people. Then then then bill Cosby, and I think that's part of this, you know. Anyway, that's a whole other, a whole other conversation we don't need to go to.

Speaker 2: 2:06:14

But but yeah, and how many people did a really great Jello putting hops? Uh, you know they could do the voice and the thing right now.

Speaker 4: 2:06:22

Now that's all gone, that's all gone.

Speaker 2: 2:06:24

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:06:25

That's the lynchpin of their type five, and now they've got nothing. What are they supposed to do?

Speaker 1: 2:06:30

Right.

Speaker 4: 2:06:31

It's difficult. My thoughts are sort of all over the place on what you guys have said. I agree with everything that you've said. I think One of the biggest issues with cancel culture for me is that when it actually comes down to A person or a group who said or did one wrong thing and then were canceled. The biggest example I have is the chicks formerly the Dixie chicks. Yeah so it also feels like, if there's this weird sort of Uh, I'll too much weight given to.

Speaker 4: 2:07:02

Oh well, aren't we sad that matt lauer can't host the today show anymore? And I'm like, not really I actually it sounds like he was a real prick for a bunch of fucking years and I don't need them back. Um, I would also like to Uh, create a credit, beyonce, with helping to bring the chicks back by having them at the cma awards a few years ago. Uh, when she did. Oh, I didn't remember that. Oh, they did. Uh, daddy said together or yeah. I'll find it, I'm gonna post it.

Speaker 3: 2:07:32

Yeah, I know yeah you talk about that song, yeah, but I but oh I did. I don't think yeah, somehow that wasn't in the bank.

Speaker 2: 2:07:38

Oh, it's again. Nobody sticks up for white women more than black women.

Speaker 4: 2:07:40

You're more than black women fucking.

Speaker 2: 2:07:42

They have our backs in the goddamn time and we need to do it back.

Speaker 4: 2:07:47

We, we need to be better Um, so I'm thinking about that.

Speaker 2: 2:07:51

We're probably good enough to black women. I'm probably okay, everybody. We probably check.

Speaker 3: 2:07:56

We're good.

Speaker 4: 2:07:58

I guess the show now um also in terms, in terms of our kelly.

Speaker 4: 2:08:04

I hate to admit that uh uh ignition Unfortunately still a good song. I don't know what to do about that. I would also like to point out we know about our kelly and we have punished our kelly and jimmy page, when he was 28 years old, had a relationship with a 13 year old girl who she says, basically kidnapped him, a kidnapped her and brought her on the road with him. So like there's still a lot of reckoning that we haven't done, like still oh yeah, I'm not, we need to get through this.

Speaker 4: 2:08:34

Oh yeah but my final point, I guess, with all this is, uh, brittany pacnet, who is a writer and activist and who I've mentioned before and is fucking great, pointed out on a podcast one time. It is nearly impossible to Divorce all of the art that we have experienced from these artists for our lives. We I don't know how to tell you that I can't. I have to listen to thriller. I don't know what to tell you. It's fucking thriller. Like I can't listen to any of the shit that I like for my childhood without there being somebody there.

Speaker 4: 2:09:04

That sucks so it is not about Refusing to engage with that art, but more so acknowledging that the fact that you love that art doesn't mean the artist is a good person. If you say like Fucking thriller slams and also michael jackson was most likely molesting children, like, we at least need to acknowledge both of those things. We can't deny the actions because we like the art no, and it's like. I feel like as long as we're doing that, we're at least heading in the right direction.

Speaker 2: 2:09:34

The big, the big part of it is that in our lifetime, music, film authors, people who have been an influencer, what we would call Someone who influences culture in one way or another once upon a time, have now become brands in our life, and those brands inform your personal identity, and so that's the. This is. This is the difficult thing. Even the clothes we wear, even the you know, the music it's like this becomes our personal brand, and it's tough to be branded with the same you know or or accept as part of your brand. Someone is so, um, is someone who is so tainted.

Speaker 1: 2:10:16

Uh.

Speaker 2: 2:10:17

Because you're like, oh no, this music is part of my brand, but the musician, you know the person and again, it's part of it's part and parcel of society Learning more and having more access to these celebrities.

Speaker 2: 2:10:30

I mean, once upon a time they were an untouchable celestial thing, like you know, the the movie stars of guestary here were had had lives nobody knew about, like nobody had any concept of the, of the horrible things they did, or the good things and and and so, or the nightmares that happened to people behind the scenes. It was just the cellular hero kind of kind of vibe. Um, but yes, now we're more, much more aware of what our, the people that we root for, are about. And it's funny because in my daughter's, uh, she's taking this fantastic college class about the importance of fandoms. I'm like god, they didn't have stuff like this.

Speaker 2: 2:11:13

When I went to college they were talking about fandoms and she and she was saying how they were debating in the class. This is like yesterday. Uh, is it important to when you, when you start to like be a fan of someone and it was Taylor Swift, I think they came up it's like, is it important to understand their politics before you can listen to their music, or is that something that is ancillary to the experience? And it was fascinating to hear you know her. She's telling me about what everybody's different positions were and, um, but in, at least for the, the younger generation, it is really integral to them to Like sort of agree with the, the positions of the artist and they have access to that ahead of time.

Speaker 3: 2:11:55

You know which is interesting right, or at least in conjunction with Like oh, I like this.

Speaker 2: 2:12:01

Like one of the first things they were saying they do is like I really love this new Rap, new hip-hop song or whatever like right away.

Speaker 2: 2:12:08

They're like, let me, they google the dj, they google the artist, they google the writer. Like, oh my god, because they don't want, it's not part of it's part of their ethos to be like. You know, this has to be part of the equation. That's fascinating. So we get this moment with it, with Nate and keely, and it's a you know, I don't, I don't know if boss will agree with me, but it feels to me like a very william bleakie and innocence versus experience moment when, you know, a minute ago everything was innocent, for lack of a better term, that might not be the exact right term, but after the kiss everything changes. And now you know, I have now something.

Speaker 4: 2:12:49

I would very quickly just like to say I don't think that Nate is a shitty person for what just happened. I think he misread a situation and was over eager and maybe should have paid more attention. But once he realized his mistake, he apologized, he removed himself. He didn't come back and say oh well, you were obviously wanted me to kiss you. I did, that's your right, right you did it so like even though it's uncomfortable.

Speaker 4: 2:13:14

I feel like there is a level of discomfort we need to accept when we live in society, and I would encourage people to be better at reading others, but this is not the worst thing he's done, even this season.

Speaker 3: 2:13:26

I'm glad you said that, because I do think there's a difference between Um. What would this be? He's not at all a predator here.

Speaker 2: 2:13:41

Yeah, and I think.

Speaker 3: 2:13:42

He's an idiot and then that's, and then I've been that idiot and like you know, like I Bet you know um, but yeah, I'm glad you make that distinction again. I think we need to be making more. I guess generally that's what I would say we need to be making more distinction, yes, yeah, because I think we get ourselves in a trouble. It's like, oh well, anybody who thinks Recently there was a whole story and I will get into it all now but there's a black woman comedian who was sort of in a public back and forth and I just personally, just my bullshit detector, like, like basically goes off the scale whenever this person opens their mouth. Like I'm just like I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 3: 2:14:24

My bullshit detectors is screaming right now and Several people kind of got on my case and we're like oh, this is massage or noir, and this will happen when black people, black women, speak, and I was like I'm not disputing anything you're saying. Also, I can't pretend that I believe her when she speaks. Yeah, yeah, and it was sort of like how do you? You know what I mean, but I think this we don't make room for, like there could be other explanations for a thing or there could be another. You know, if a guy, if a guy kisses you without your permission, he is a latent rapist, like well hold on, hold on.

Speaker 4: 2:15:00

So now, yes, so you and I talked a little bit off air about that situation and I think what I said was the rule is believe women In terms of do not Immediately dismiss what they are saying. What if they? Come to you and say this is an experience I had. You could say Don't say, oh, you're a liar. But you could also say okay, so let's.

Speaker 4: 2:15:26

You were here this night. I show I actually have evidence that you were on the other side of town that night, so we're gonna need to figure out how. How?

Speaker 4: 2:15:35

the story what's going on like it's fine trust. But verify is the backbone of the accounting profession. I don't think that there's anything wrong with any of that. I think also the issue is that when you say anybody who Makes this mistake and this was a mistake fumbles in this way, if you immediately Equate them to being a predator, you were saying that what the predator did was only as bad as what he did and that like these are different ends of the spectrum.

Speaker 3: 2:16:05

Oh, we need. You know, I hadn't thought about that part, but you're right, it actually also lessens Yep, because that's interesting.

Speaker 2: 2:16:13

I hadn't yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:16:14

Can you?

Speaker 2: 2:16:14

explain that for the feet, for the dummies up in the Sheena gallery.

Speaker 4: 2:16:17

I didn't really catch so I think that this is just a scale of Intent and also actual actions. If what you're saying is, what they did here is the same as being a predator and assaulting keely, that he is essentially a rapist. It lessens when people are raped like a rape is not the same, it shrinks the.

Speaker 2: 2:16:43

Yes, you know I.

Speaker 4: 2:16:45

I. I don't want to minimize what Nate did. He made a mistake he shouldn't have. Keely has a boyfriend that Nate works with and his friends Like this was a big fuck out, but this was not a key rake turn. That. That is a different thing and we need to keep those things separate in order to Deal with each of them appropriately absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:17:03

By the way, if um Ben is listening, I was wondering if I was referring to them, if they were one of the dummies in the Heena gallery. I was saying that for me, but I don't know. Any of our listeners are driving in their car going she's just calling stupid.

Speaker 4: 2:17:15

Yeah, talking about you, john jasselthins, almost.

Speaker 2: 2:17:19

Um, yes, uh. One thing I want to point out, just bringing it all back to our first few minutes of this podcast. Uh, today, this episode, we're talking about the, the inherent expectation of women to Carry the weight for everybody, and and boss, where you're talking about how you're a rebel because you don't, isn't it interesting? Uh, interesting is the word I would use, being diplomatic. But my daughter, who watched this scene with me and we talked a lot about it, um, it was was less interested in that. She's like it just Sucks. That keely's reaction to this has to be it's okay, it's, it's, it'd be like what the fuck are you doing? Like, even in this moment, the expectation for women is to Coddle the fragile. You know, we play it all.

Speaker 2: 2:18:19

It's, it's like it makes me so crazy how, how we play the different sides of this, like, oh you know, and politically it's like Evil, democrats can do everything except when they're in charge. They ruin the nation or you know, whatever, like, whatever the as it's like oh, women, women are you know they're terrible and and and whatever, but you know they they also have to.

Speaker 2: 2:18:40

You know I can't take care of myself. There was uh. Where did I just read? Oh, okay, I know I was reading an article and it was about re. Uh, it was about serial um Serial offenders being re educated, reeducated that's not a word that they didn't use that word. That sounds like. That sounds like a Rehabilitated sci-fi thing. Yeah, they were just trying to be like they have these clinics where they're trying to talk to people, and so it was.

Speaker 2: 2:19:12

It was like they'd have they did some ratio. It was like you'd have 60 men in prison. How many of you are violent offenders? How many of you do this? Whatever? Okay, and they would say let's talk through um, like how you grew up and what, what corners you were backed into because of the patriarchy, and so naturally, most of the guys get defensive about the patriarchy because it's all they know. But you'll have one or two guys and every, they said in every group of 60, one or two. It's like, yeah, I, I'm in here because I could not back down over something stupid and that cost me my life and and I'm then here 25 years. I didn't get a childhood. I didn't get a. You know what I mean. Like whatever.

Speaker 2: 2:19:53

And and they said, okay, let's talk about women. How many, um, women, how many people you like heard a woman in your lifetime, whatever? Like how many of you, whatever, okay, raised hands? Almost every, almost unanimous, right. How many people have perpetrated a crime against a woman? Again, almost Unanimous. And the question is like, was it actual crime or was it also an emotional Transgression? So they're like, yes, everyone right.

Speaker 2: 2:20:22

And like how many of you think, uh, women are like, equal to men or whatever? No, no, like one or two hands go up, right. And then they ask this question, which I love. I love right now, while you're here in prison, who's taking care of shit at home? And raise your hand up to them. And they're like everybody's hands go, because it's like, on top of carrying your burden, gentlemen, on top of not having you at home to raise the kids and not having you there to fix the car and all the things we ascribe to men, on top of that, they're doing your job and their job while you are in car service.

Speaker 2: 2:21:03

And it was like they said that for a lot of men it was like super eye open. The last question is the one that sold it, that started to have the inkling of change. Because, like, at the very least we can say hypothetically what I think about women, or you know people who grew up with a certain idea about women, or certain you know stigma, but how can they refute the fact like, right now, who is running your family? Like, and is it a woman? You know what I mean, and it's like it's very difficult to not see the honesty in that. So, anyway, I thought it was fascinating, but again, it's part and parcel of what do women have to carry on behalf of the men who are supposedly the stronger, you know stronger gender?

Speaker 3: 2:21:47

theory. You know it's interesting because I hadn't thought about the scene from that angle and you know, as I watch, as I watch boss nod to your point there. If Keely had said that I love Keely, I'm sure I'd have been like well, it's her right. But I kind of would have felt like geez, take it easy. Keely Meanwhile take it easy. Like why should she take it easy? Like she didn't ask me to be kissed, like you violated her. Like like you know what I mean, if he kissed Roy, I wouldn't expect Roy to be like it's cool. Like wait.

Speaker 2: 2:22:25

So my daughter's. Like how many accidental kisses are we allowed in a lifetime? Like, how many are we supposed to carry? What am I supposed? What's my, what's my limit? Four accidental kisses where a man puts his mouth on mine Like how many, how many? Is cool for me to be and I'm like Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1: 2:22:41

And.

Speaker 2: 2:22:42

Why are you so smart?

Speaker 4: 2:22:43

Yes, no, but what your daughter said, who was brilliant? Who knows where she got that from? Not her dad, obviously. No, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:22:55

Every she's coding.

Speaker 4: 2:22:57

She for those listening she quotes boss now. Oh, I love that.

Speaker 2: 2:23:00

Oh what, what would boss do in this situation? I'm like what would Juliana do? What would boss do?

Speaker 4: 2:23:05

That is.

Speaker 2: 2:23:06

I Anybody else you might be.

Speaker 4: 2:23:08

I no no, just Juliana boss Cannot believe that I am in that company. That's amazing.

Speaker 2: 2:23:12

Terrible, terrible. It's terrible, it's terrible, it's terrible A terrible way for me to live.

Speaker 4: 2:23:15

Anyway, keep going. So, yes, like Nate should not be crucified because he made a mistake, but also you. You'd need to get better after that. That's the answer. You fuck up and then you get better. That's how you do shit. Women should not be tasked with caring any of the emotional. They did this.

Speaker 4: 2:23:31

There was a TikTok her name is Paige Turner on TikTok and she posted a video about how she's not taking business advice from that anymore. She's done. And she talked about a now probably multi-millionaire, possibly billionaire, but like a shit ton of money.

Speaker 4: 2:23:50

Some CEO guy who, in his autobiography, talked about getting his girlfriend pregnant, which they were both 17, and how difficult it was for him to like while he was sleeping on couches in New York in order to make a life for himself and in order to advance in business. How difficult it was to do all those things and to think about his son and like he was trying so hard and as a dad, with a young father having this kid, and he had to go out there and make sure that he made enough money to take care of everything. And she was like, who was watching your son while that was happening, while you were making your billions? Who was watching the son that you felt terrible about abandoning? And how come she doesn't have an equal share in your money? If she was taking care of your son, who was giving you the motivation to get this shit done?

Speaker 2: 2:24:44

We've always been terrible at this. We've always said you know hunter-gatherer and we go out and we do the.

Speaker 1: 2:24:50

I provide for the family.

Speaker 2: 2:24:52

I provide boss, I go kill the beast and you wouldn't feed without me whatever. And then it's like men are somehow historically exonerated from all the emotional weight and all of the. You know the societal rules and you know it is so. It's so fraught with pitfalls, but at least now at least people are mindful of it. The next generation seems much more aware of it.

Speaker 4: 2:25:19

God bless.

Speaker 2: 2:25:21

And that's the reasons, I think, where you have people hooking up less in Gen Z, millennials and Gen Z, but it is because of the consent, because of like the okay, I'm not going to make this foolhardy mistake and because of that they don't have the impulsivity to necessarily do it. It's really interesting to see, and one way your heart bleeds is you're like oh, you don't know what it feels like to have like a great whatever you know, like fling kind of thing, but they're more careful about it in general.

Speaker 2: 2:25:49

I'm speaking in generalities, obviously, but. But yeah, there is some hesitation to make those mistakes and I think for what it's worth considering. The world we grew up in that feels like progress. You get Nate here spitting in the mirror. The impression, I believe, is that he's disgusted with himself. There's also a shame element to it.

Speaker 3: 2:26:16

Where he is, you know, he's just like oh, I'm really glad to use the word shame, because it's more because he's not disgusted with what he just did, he's disgusted with who he is. So he thought I've graduated. I'm moving on out like George and Weezy to the point where now you know Keely and I. She sees it where you're like I see that we're like both on the right. Yeah, yeah, me and Keely. And then when she says no, what are you doing? Essentially up, I'm not up there and it's him. It's an affirmation of no, you do not belong in this store. No, you are not a big boy. No, you do not. You're not. You don't rank among the Jamees and the Roy's of the world. Like I think this isn't just I feel bad about what I just did. This is like who I am has just been affirmed. I'm still the same loser whose father sat him down with his girlfriend to tell them that they both could do better. That's like I'm trying to get rid of that guy and he just won't stop following me around.

Speaker 2: 2:27:37

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely right, coach. It's hard to watch if you're someone that roots for Nate and it's hard for these things to not line up. It's funny. I'm reading this book talks about relationships and there was a line and I read the other day it was like nobody. Well, one of the lines was that the cure for loneliness is not a relationship. The only cure for loneliness is isolation, because that's the only place you can get to, a place where you are okay enough with yourself to be ready for a relationship.

Speaker 3: 2:28:13

Oh my God, yeah, that's big heavy stuff that's like lots of stuck in.

Speaker 2: 2:28:19

And then the other one was yeah, you can feel lonely in a crowd.

Speaker 3: 2:28:21

No, that's for sure. Sorry, coach, good no, no no, it's good, that's great.

Speaker 2: 2:28:25

And the other one I read, just the next chapter was no one else can fix the parenting you didn't get. And I was like I think about that a lot when I look at Nate. I'm like, oh God, and, by the way, the way that you address that is to get over. And then there was a quote in this book According to this book and I'm like, oh God, it feels like reading boss. I'm like oh no, but can't we hold hands and hide it?

Speaker 4: 2:29:03

out. No, just fucking get over it. Dude, the shittiest part of so many things is that you can work on yourself in so many different ways and you can do the mindfulness and the cognitive, behavioral therapy and didactic I think, behavioral therapy I'll need to check with my older sister you can do all this shit and then it gets to a point where it's like and now you need to get over it, like, whatever emotional thing you need to do in order to let go of this you are the only one that can do it and you have to It'll be better on the other side. I fucking promise. I promise on the other side it's better.

Speaker 3: 2:29:40

Listen, I don't have to log in here to be fucking insulting. That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 2:29:44

It sucks to be in this bullshit. It sucks to be in this bullshit. It sucks to be in this shit.

Speaker 2: 2:29:51

It's the second time you've ever been three days a week and you have interventions over here.

Speaker 4: 2:29:54

It sucks so fucking hard, but sometimes it's like well. I just need to leave this baggage behind. I got to be done with this.

Speaker 3: 2:30:02

I yes to everything you both said and I'm not going to keep us on. I just quickly will say for me to get over it, and I do want to share this part because I think it's different than the way I've heard some people talk about it and it worked for me. My way of getting over it was to bring it in, not to get rid of it.

Speaker 4: 2:30:24

Yes, that's fair. That's an excellent point.

Speaker 3: 2:30:28

I get people who are like I'm putting that down For me. It was no, all these parts are part of me and we got to figure out how we're all going to work together here and make this work, as opposed to oh, you're the wounded, shitty part I'm going to leave behind, which I'm not speaking to anybody else's journey, but my own. I've found that a huge distinction and very helpful.

Speaker 4: 2:30:51

Yes, yeah, one of the and again, not bragging, just saying that in my weird little Gollum cave with my one true ring where I hang out and I'm just weird and I do my own stuff, I love it, it's great. One of the things that not my therapist, but somebody else asked me was what about your life right now? Would you give up in order to change something in the past?

Speaker 4: 2:31:21

Because, if your dad hadn't died, if your parents hadn't gotten divorced, if your mom hadn't married that shitty stepdad, your life would be different. So what things that you have right now are you going to sacrifice in order to change that? And if the answer is nothing, then you got to let go of whatever it was in the past, because now you have this.

Speaker 3: 2:31:43

So you'll be playing clarinet by yourself, with hair caterpillars, instead of going to see the national? And what's the point of that? I'm sorry, that's completely ridiculous. I'm sorry this. Take random pieces of your life and throw them into a sentence. Pretend that's a joke.

Speaker 4: 2:32:01

No, I love it. Emily, madd looks great.

Speaker 2: 2:32:06

I love if we could refrain from bringing up the hair. Caterpillars, yeah, centipedes.

Speaker 1: 2:32:12

It's centipedes.

Speaker 2: 2:32:13

It's a general rule. This is centipedes. I love it. I love it.

Speaker 3: 2:32:17

It got discussed on the board. That was awesome Because I was like, yeah, okay, great, that's, you know.

Speaker 4: 2:32:23

There's centipedes no judgments here.

Speaker 2: 2:32:26

Yeah Well, this is. I think this has been a fruitful conversation. It's a tough, it's a tough, it's a tough scene in a lot of ways and we don't want to be dismissive about. I like the fact that we've we've I don't know attempted to categorize it in a way that we're it's not nefarious, and because of that, we as viewers choose a certain path with with Graginate, and then we'll see in upcoming episodes how other characters, once they hear about this transgression, how it lands with them, and that also informs Nate's feelings of self-worth or lack thereof, and we'll, we'll definitely get into that.

Speaker 2: 2:33:14

We're going to leave it there for today. We'll pick it up next time with Roy, back in the classroom with Ms Bowen, but that's a, that's a, that's a. It's a lot of heavy duty emotions to to go through in one sitting. We thank everybody for listening, for joining us. If you have made it this far and this is your first time with us. Thanks for thanks for sticking with us, to our, to our diehard audience, who who are always here for us. We love you, we appreciate you, we appreciate our Butter Cups and everybody who supports us. Coach, if people want to find you, where do they find you?

Speaker 3: 2:33:50

Today I want to hype up joining the community, become a Butter Cup, support what we're doing, we love doing it, we're, we're pushing forward, we're going to be doing our rain episodes and moving to news shows and all the things we love this, and so I'm just going to encourage you to become a Butter Cup so that you too can join in with the wonderful Chambers sisters in making coach visible, and I mean that alone is worth the price of admission.

Speaker 2: 2:34:18

It's pretty true, amen. So say we all Boss, what about you?

Speaker 4: 2:34:22

You can find me at Blue Sky at Dumbly Chambers. I'm getting over there more because now it is free and open to everyone. You don't need a code. You can come and join Also on threads, which is Emilychambers.31. I still have an active Twitter account. If you need to, you could reach me there. Brian reached out about finishing Wayne, so I love, coach, that you brought that up. We are doing it and you can message me in any of those places. I'll respond. It might be late because I'm bad at checking stuff. Don't try to find me on Facebook. I'm not there, okay.

Speaker 2: 2:34:56

Thank you, boss, and thank you, brian for reaching out about Wayne. We will continue. We will finish that for sure. We love it. We're trying to chip away at this little show they call Ted Lasso. It is a. I can't believe how many hours of conversation it has given us Just stunning, mind-blowing. Never thought it would go this way, but we thank everybody for joining us.

Speaker 2: 2:35:26

I know some of you have long commutes and you put us on the commute. I know some people work out listening to us, some people just like a friendly voice in the background while they work. A lot of people work from home and they like to hear coach, coaches Malif Lewis voice singing to them from time to time. I know I'm always lobbying for more singing, but we'll take what we can get from coach. He's a beautiful man. But, yes, thank you everybody for being part of the team. It's a very unique podcast If you go out there and listen to other people how they're doing it and how they go about it.

Speaker 2: 2:36:05

Yes, there are so many great podcasts out there. There are so many ways to spend your time. It really means the world to us that you choose to spend it with us. It is a whole. This has been very interesting because we started thinking, okay, it's just going to be a couple of things, and now we're well down the rabbit hole and we can't believe the people we've met along the way. So we really cherish you. We thank you so much, thanks for supporting us and for keeping us going, and we, hopefully, will be able to continue to have your vote of confidence. So thanks for that. Please support your local libraries and the written word, and until next time we are Richmond.

Speaker 4: 2:36:53

Richmond Till we die Die.

Speaker 2: 2:36:55

Awesome. All right guys. Thank you everybody and we'll see you next time.