Wayne | Ep 6:Part 3: "Who Even Are We Now?"

WAYNE ON YOUTUBE

The Tedcast is a deep dive podcast exploring the masterpieces that are Ted Lasso on Apple TV+ and Wayne on YouTube.

Sponsored by Pajiba and The Antagonist, join Boss Emily Chambers and Coaches Bishop and Castleton as they ruminate on all things AFC Richmond.

Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop
Coach Castleton

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the lasso way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Okay, welcome back, beautiful people. Today we're talking about Wayne, episode six. Who even are we now? This is part three in our conversation about this incredible episode of Wayne. Wayne is, of course, one season, which is why I'm not calling out how many seasons there are. Sadly, it's only one season and those of you hanging out with us and watching through. You will pine away with me. At the very end we see that there's no more Wayne forthcoming. I am your host, Coach Castleton. With me is always this, Coach Bishop.

Speaker 3: 1:14

I may not be eating mushrooms, but you know what I'll be eating when I'm off. Mike, I'm a cereal because I've been busy all morning. There you go.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Not what I expected With us is our boss, Emily Chambers.

Speaker 4: 1:26

So I've mentioned before that I am not currently on Twitter. No judgment, just personal decision. It's not my jam anymore. But sometimes things happen where, like, the princess of Wales disappears for two months and she's supposed to be having surgery and it's on all the late night talk shows because she hasn't been seen and she keeps releasing really weird photoshopped pictures Not her individually, but like the whole thing.

Speaker 4: 1:53

So you dip into Twitter for a second to find out what everybody's saying about Kate Gait and while you're there, you accidentally stumble down a rabbit hole where a couple of years ago, you and a friend of yours were talking about how great Sam Rockwell is and how he's the kind of rap scallion character who would ruin you in a great way. Like she and I are talking back and forth about circa Charlie's Angels and I'm like circa all the time he's Sam Rockwell, he's fucking great. And then one of your mutuals dips in only to say slam cock well. And then he's gone. That's all he writes about it. And then every once in a while, when you're back on Twitter, you remember that time that somebody wrote Sam Clark slam cock well, and so that it's a really good morning, then everything's looking up.

Speaker 3: 2:48

As one does, as one does. Before we start you know, what's funny is that is in the unedited version of Marcus Aurelius' meditations.

Speaker 4: 3:03

That's what I figured yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:05

So yeah, that's a foot of the chapter headings Exactly. Yeah, I don't, Whatever makes boss tick is just pure, pure crazy pants, but he is. He is remarkable. We just watched Galaxy Quest where he plays. You find, well, at the very end the new Galaxy Quest. He plays Guy Fleegman as security chief, Rock Ingersoll, and Rock is in a parent. There's in quotes ROC, Rock Ingersoll. Any points at the camera? I just he's. He's delightful. It was so great to see.

Speaker 2: 3:51

When we first got to know Sam Rockwell, he would be this guy that you'd kind of noticed because he would be good and everything. It was just little bit rolls and then he did the thing a la Philip Seymour Hoffman, where he never disappointed. Where you just go, the bigger role you give him, the better your film will be. Like, are you aware that, like certain actors, they just rise to the occasion and they're never bad? Like, give him a crappy script and he'll still make that character? Yes, like you just go.

Speaker 2: 4:24

Oh, my God, it is stunning to watch that type of talent. And he just seems like I can't tell. I mean you, you always cue into the, the, the, the bad boy element, boss, or the troublemaking element, and he does have a. He does have that writhe smile and mischievous eyes and that sort of dynamic at the Oscars Last week. He was who did he introduce? Robert Downey Jr? He introduced somebody you know where they had the thing where the, the former winners, come out and they and they introduced the other ones and he was like you could feel it was like palpable excitement when, when they put him on the stage, people were like, oh, I don't know what it is about the guy, but man, he's easy to like.

Speaker 4: 5:10

Is that what it is you think? I think it's the dancing. I think every time he goes out on a late night talk show he dances his way out and it's always very enjoyable. But yeah, he seemed I don't know. I know that it's extremely hard to tell. I don't like having parasocial relationships with celebrities because I don't actually know them at all, but he seems pretty likable. He's been dating what's your face? For like 17 years or something. Now I'm gonna need a little clarity on quote unquote.

Speaker 2: 5:43

What's her face?

Speaker 4: 5:44

Yeah, no, what's her face? Actually, she was in Iron man also. She was the blonde reporter that Tony Stark went on a date with, and I'm going to have to look up her name. I want to say it's Leslie Biv, but I could be wrong about that I will double check.

Speaker 2: 5:59

Well, yeah, he is, he is charming. Before we, before we logged on, we were talking a little bit about treasured foods, that well, the reason we got into this was because where we left off with Wayne last time was the line I said to the team here I said okay guys, we're going to pick it up. We're going to pick it up from vintage pussay and and coach, coach goes God damn like. That's like in a business meeting.

Speaker 3: 6:26

That's how, what you know when you're going to get like, this is your direction. We're picking it up from vintage pussay Anyway go on.

Speaker 2: 6:38

And somehow that got us into treasured foods of our childhood. I don't know how we made that leap, but coach had a had. His mom used to make it a killer, like absolutely stellar chicken lasagna that he swears by and sort of magically, wondrously, in a very poetic way, can't quite reproduce as well as his mom used to make it, which makes me want to cry and smile at the same time. But he reports that if his mom knew he was headed home, it would be like, okay, I'll get the lasagna you're cooking. Am I saying that right, coach?

Speaker 3: 7:16

That's totally, totally accurate. It was amazing Quickly one time this is not the cool part of the story but I got like super sick. I was in the hospital for a week or whatever. So finally my mom, who was like a notorious homebody that decides she's going to fly to Los Angeles, which is when the rest of my family realized, oh, this must be super serious, like if my mom was going to like leave. Yeah, like it was like whoa. And the first thing when I got home or whatever, we, daphne, took her to the store and the next thing I knew that was chicken lasagna prepared in the house. This is what I do. He has really cool.

Speaker 2: 7:59

I love that. And Boss reported that Kathy was not a fabulous chef cook, but there was a period of time where health food was sort of on the table, a lot of carob which led her, which led a friend, to the show. Boss is one of Boss's five Ursula to have a funny. This is so great, Boss, Tell this please.

Speaker 4: 8:28

Yeah, man, look at all this lead up Another one of our buddies I said something about I think it was either carob or was that. As a child my favorite cookie was a fig Newton. And buddy Stephen was like, wow, that's so depressing, that's so depressing that you liked a fig Newton. And he was like, did you also eat the dehydrated fruit paste? No sugar added, no additives, no flavor. Did you do that? And I was like, of course they did. They were called fruit leathers. Thank you Like, call them by the proper name. And then I described how cinnamon toast in our households when we were young was holy bread with cinnamon and butter and maybe sometimes a little bit of honey, but definitely not sugar. Like absolutely 100%, no, no table sugar. And yeah, my friend Ursula said I grew up in Soviet Poland and your food makes me sad.

Speaker 3: 9:22

So classic, just a classic line.

Speaker 2: 9:26

Yeah, I mean yes.

Speaker 4: 9:34

Whenever I stand by a fig Newton, I think they're delicious.

Speaker 3: 9:38

I would eat one right now. I haven't heard of that, even the name, in so long. But my sister loved fig Newton. That specifically remember that because I did not. But you know, neither hander, they had my own crazy shit I like, but she I remember my sister loving fig Newton. So we both got to choose, like what our treat was going to be. That was, that was her go to. So there you have good company.

Speaker 4: 10:01

It's fruit and cake. Like how can?

Speaker 3: 10:04

you go wrong. Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 2: 10:08

Okay, I want to point out something here, but I'm going to pause for a second Because I feel a sneeze coming on. Nope, I think I fought it off. I think I fought it off, folks. A man is there though. It is there, it's, it's making itself known. Oh, don't you worry, it'll be back mid sentence Now.

Speaker 2: 10:28

I want that first down that road, without a doubt, without a doubt. Okay, so we're in the diner where we left off last time. You got the wing nut behind the counter. He may not be eating mushrooms, you know, he'll be eating later. And then I want to point out, because we ran over, this is where the guy who labels himself as Saddam says vintage Pusse, sings it. And I just want to point out the reaction from Wayne, because it's like he just stands there Like like, why would you include? Like, first of all, we were talking about the people right behind first of all, like, directly.

Speaker 3: 11:12

It's one thing to talk about the shot, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:16

It's one of the. It's one thing to mention it in the abstract, but like if, without taking a, like a giant step forward, like you would in what's the game where you take big, four big steps when you're a kid, damn it Red red like green light.

Speaker 2: 11:34

Yeah, maybe it's something like that when I remember this thing, where you were trying to think of the game now but you would take these big giant steps and without taking that level giant step, wayne could touch the, the owner of said vintage pussy, and I think that's very inappropriate, especially song at the volume of its song. Again, I always marvel at the Roy Kent. I'm not like I'm just not interacting with you. Crazy person I'm not. I'm not going to give you up face, I'm not going to you know, I'm not going to do anything to sort of make you okay inside. The Wayne does the same thing here, just just does not. He kind of looks at the guy and then walks away and I'm like it's a marvel to me. I just go wow, that is such a good point. I know boss has it. I don't think I'll trip or I have.

Speaker 3: 12:32

No, I definitely react, even if even if my reaction is that's crazy. I don't have that, which is also why I'm not someone who plays a lot of poker, because I just I can't do it, I just keep my face tells much of the story.

Speaker 2: 12:47

Yeah, no, no, me too. Yeah, I found out. You don't yell yes when you get good cards, Not a good poker player. Boss, we're gonna say it.

Speaker 4: 12:58

No, just that it's wild, like I don't think I could respond if I wanted to. There have been times where there have, like, been people that did similar things to what this guy did, I don't know wherever and shouting things. Whatever it is, and I don't think it's on. It must be automatic. I don't mean to do it, but my response is well, I have to walk away now, like I couldn't interact with them if I wanted to. I could not validate what he was saying about mushrooms and vintage busies. I would need to leave.

Speaker 3: 13:31

Yeah, no, I like that, though. I like the clarity of it and also it's non committal. I'm not judging you, I'm not, but it is time for me to go now.

Speaker 4: 13:41

Yes, yeah, exactly Like I. I know that I'm become, I have become, I am my mother in so many ways, but it just there would be a her voice in my head that would slowly nod and say Okay, and then we would have to go like that would be the end of it. Okay.

Speaker 2: 14:01

I love it. I love it, I love it, boss. Okay, so we open up, we're at the police station where, where we get the local sheriff, who is inviting Sergeant Geller and Jay Gannetti into officer Gannetti, into this sort of little evidence room kind of thing, right away he gets called away. And I mentioned this last time where you know it's slightly ineligible, where it's like we got to get this guy out of here and so they just put in a have like we really need you on the on the third floor, you know, sheriff. And he's like, oh damn it, you know. And so he grunts and he says, All right, fellas, good luck, I got to go.

Speaker 4: 14:47

Although I would say that they've already laid the foundation for this by having them on the radio saying like mop up the water, I don't know what to tell you. You got to, you got to jiggle the handle. So he very clearly is not, he isn't micromanaging. It's other people are micro pulling him in to do things that probably yes, chief of police should not be doing.

Speaker 3: 15:09

Yeah, and built in the and I and you know we've referenced that and make Rebecca great again we had the, the classic hotel employee, saying you know, we'll jiggle it the handle a little harder, whatever, there's something truly, truly universal, right I mean, obviously, about like bathroom issues, and I always find it fascinating because I'm like we all use the bathroom to see, use the euphemism of it all but then there's a lot of energy spent on shielding any evidence of said usage or the embarrassment like there's a meme that I saw that's like this person with this panic face and it's like the moment the water starts rising in somebody else's bathroom. And sure, I experienced the horror too. But like, why like, why Like? Why is this as funny as it is? Like if they were like hey, chief, come downstairs, the printer broke, like it'd be a waste, but it's a bathroom joke, so it's funny and I'm not 100% clear why.

Speaker 4: 16:19

Oh, I think it's because poop smells bad. I think that's usually why it's funny.

Speaker 2: 16:26

It is a. It is a thank you. You know people say why do you get the big bucks Like, why do you? And I think boss you just solidified exactly why. With that, with that insight, thank you. Thank you for that. Yes, it is a taboo subject. Neither one of you have watched calling from accounts yet I'm assuming you know. I know.

Speaker 4: 16:55

I'm working on it.

Speaker 2: 16:55

I know coach hasn't just go yet. Not yet. I'm a whole my damn breath on that coach.

Speaker 2: 17:04

I know it'll be 20 30 before coach even begins to think about watching that. But there is a pretty brutal scene in the bathroom In that show to begin, but it is a. It is a something that is sort of universal. So Jay and and and Geller are about to figure out whether or not, you know, they heard about somebody doused some, a guy with a Boston accent, doused a guy in gasoline, and they're about to find out if Wayne is someone that they should be saving the world from you know, or vice versa, are we trying to say Wayne from the world, we're trying to say the world from Wayne? And so they, here they go, they he says just hit it Jay. And they press, press, play, and we see what here, coach, it's not him.

Speaker 3: 18:08

Yes. I am him, and then wait, that's the motherfucker. I taste Right and so, no, I'm gonna, just so great.

Speaker 2: 18:22

If I'm gonna refresh people's memory, it was probably episode two, I'm guessing two or three, probably two. And Bobby the Chetty shows up at the, at the local police outreach day, at the, at the local ice cream stand, and threatens Sergeant killer and gets taste for his truck. It is all cops, it is families and cops. Bobby the Chetty yells aloud I'm gonna smoke here and anybody who's got a problem with it can fucking blow me. And then you get that amazing insert of a mom and her two daughters, just just like a gas. Yeah, you go. I mean, listen, it's horrifying. I laugh because it is horrifying. I don't laugh because it is appropriate.

Speaker 2: 19:22

It is Talk about a scene that properly portrays the absolute scumbaggery of a certain character. Right, right, just the, just the level of asshole who would just yell out at a family event. Yeah, and then, and then at least I'm getting taste. So Jay notices this oh, my god, that's the guy I taste. Okay, and so now we, we cut over to. Okay, that's it. Now we have some insight, because now we know okay, listen, geller was, at least at this point Geller is right, we, he has an instinct about Wayne. He just feels like second chances. And so okay, to this point at least, he has no reason to check out. Coach is it just?

Speaker 3: 20:13

I'm pretty sure this is so, but is this the first that Jay and Geller now understand that they're not the only ones pursuing Wayne?

Speaker 2: 20:24

Yeah, I mean yeah, they were not aware that the family, that Dell's family, was on the job.

Speaker 3: 20:30

Yeah, that's, yeah, that matters.

Speaker 2: 20:32

And yeah, we've rightly pointed out that Dell, for lack of, for better or for worse, mostly for worse has not been the focal point of their search. You would think it would be like, oh, this girl has been abducted, let's go find the girl. In our, in our male centric world, we noticed that the languaging has mostly been around the Wayne side of the equation, not something that we rubber stamp over here, but we, we are mindful of it and, and yes, I do not believe to this point, they knew that company on the road boss.

Speaker 4: 21:10

The only thing I'll say about that is that for the purpose of the show, I do understand why they're framing it this way, so that we understand they are good characters coming after Wayne, not bad ones. It like Bobby Luchetti, obviously, but this is unfortunately the because the bar is in hell. There are a lot of especially fantasy TV shows where, in order to prove that a male character is good, they have him, give him the opportunity to rape a person, and then he doesn't and you're like oh, I got it, you're the good guy, which, oh my God that's horrifying.

Speaker 3: 21:46

Yeah, I'm sorry that I never noticed that. I'm gonna make a lot of shows in my head like Wait, is that true? Oh, true, I'm sure you're right.

Speaker 2: 21:54

It's like horrifying when you realize it and you're like, oh yeah, the good guy is the guy who didn't rape when he theoretically could. Oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 22:04

Yeah, it's wild and I will mention I think that that was also a minor plot point in the transporter. So, like, definitely not only in fantasy movies. It's a thing, it's a whole thing. So I understand when communicating to an audience like this is a good way of saying that the police are interested in helping Wayne and that they are not assholes. Like this is character development. It's just, things are sometimes so shitty that character development is. Well, we can't pay attention to the girl because we're good guys are paying attention to the boy. Like I understand why they're doing it. It's more a comment on society than the show itself.

Speaker 2: 22:47

You know, yesterday on our side.

Speaker 2: 22:49

sorry Co no I was gonna mention that yesterday, on the community site, we had a good conversation about divorce and marriage, and I posted this thing, this great video that I found about the lack of male role models in television, and it's amazing because in a man's world, in a world where we talk about how women have no rights and, no, you know, are always wrong, no matter what you choose, society will paint you one way or another. Oh, her husband cheated on her. I guess she didn't service him enough, right? I guess it must have been. She's know how to take care of her man. Oh, you know her husband is not cheating on her. Wow, she must be a real battle ax, and keeping him locked out Like it doesn't matter, society finds a way to paint women into a corner.

Speaker 2: 23:41

What this one video showed, though, was amazing, was that actually, in popular media, there have been a number of exceptional, advanced women role models for young girls to emulate, and they list them all off, and there's, like a number of people who are not defined by the person, the partner they pick, male or female. Some of them are not defined by their career. Some of them are not defined by the family they grew up in. You just go. Wow, this is like remarkable.

Speaker 2: 24:13

And yet male role models languish far behind, far behind, with the exception of Bandit Healer in Bluey, who I have behind me. Where's my little? Right behind me, here on my bookshelf I have a little little Bandit stuffy, because you just don't see that much. It's one of the reasons coach and I gravitated to Ted Lasso and even then, right while he might be an avatar as a good man, it's a questionable parent. There's definitely cases to be made that he's not the ultimate father. But it's crazy that and I should say crazy, it is telling that we always say very difficult to find the line between masculinity and what we call toxic masculinity, in that the second one has ingested the first.

Speaker 2: 25:12

You can't find a definition of masculinity that does somehow have some toxicity associated with it and gee, I wonder why. Who are these kids emulating that? Don't use violence as a tool. Anyway, it's a fascinating video. I posted it on the community site and, coach, I'm very sorry to have cut you off there.

Speaker 3: 25:35

No, no, no. Now I want to respond to that because you know new tangent. I had a tangent and I got new tangent. But first of all, the point you just made me go back through my own viewing experiences, just like the first cover, and I went oh yeah nope, not him.

Speaker 3: 25:54

Okay, so there's something to that, but what it really makes me think about is the fact that we talk about and this is in both directions we talk about how bad sexism, the patriarchy, misogyny, is for women, but I think this should be much more serious conversation about how bad it is for men, how bad it is for boys. It's, it's, it's. There's a lot that's deeply, deeply unhealthy about just behaving this way and having these ideas and then having to deny. I mean, I understand that social media is a place where we get it's not necessarily a reflection of, like, the percentage of people who think A, B or C, but the number of memes and comments and videos around this is, you know, such and such as a feminine trait and it's clearly not an objective observation. It is you are not a real man because you are doing this thing or because you ate a popsicle in public. It's so fucking insane and yeah, anyway, I think we should be having much more conversation about that.

Speaker 3: 27:09

But in the other direction, when there is that great woman character and I I know I've said it and I meant it which was this is so good for girls to have someone to look up to, Well, it's good for everyone to have someone to look up to Like. Why? Why is Serena only good for girls to look up to Like? Serena is a fucking amazing athlete who had to, like, first learn to play where there was broken glass. Why, why is she only someone from girls to look up to? So I think it's really damaging, just as I think whiteness is damaging to white people, but you know that's a whole other set of conversations. But I it's really damaging that we, that we shape things the way we do and approach them the way we do and I did see you all were having that conversation, but it seems super serious and I was like I'm gonna have to have time for this.

Speaker 3: 27:58

Every notification I got I was like God damn, they over there digging in no.

Speaker 4: 28:03

I actually agree with everything both of you just said, which is not usual for this show. I'm going to try to become bitchier just to have something to talk about, but I think one of the I am not one of these. I'm fearful for the state of manhood. I'm afraid of the state of manhood right now. I'm not worried about what is going to happen, but a thing that I do know will be happening is that more and more women are opting not to get married and have kids, and I should clarify that sometimes this is the like intentionally not getting married child free version.

Speaker 4: 28:43

But there are also a lot of cases. Women that I know who are fantastic and great in every way have decided I haven't found a partner who I consider to be worth my time, so I am not doing a partnership. Like we had a society that for so long forced women into marriage and motherhood in order to be secure in society, and now that we have a little bit of, we can do it on our own. We're like fuck yeah, we're doing it on our own. So it isn't just that.

Speaker 3: 29:13

Oh sorry.

Speaker 4: 29:15

I was going to say it's. It isn't just that the current state of patriarchy is harmful to men as well as women, even though in a lot of ways it prefers men. It is that this state of patriarchy is going to be changing slightly in the near future and currently and there are going to be men who don't even have the outlet of their romantic partner as emotional support and all these other things. So it's got to be fucked for a little bit, like until guys start getting their shit together to go to therapy and figure the stuff out and form lasting relationships with each other and become worthy of women partners. It's going to be lonely and hard. There's going to be a period where shit gets really bad. I'm hoping it gets better, but right now shit is going to get pretty bad.

Speaker 3: 30:00

I first want to share that I'm glad Daphne missed this opportunity to live a decent life. She was just born a few years too soon and figured I could do better than this, but then again I might do worse. Fuck it. I'll just marry him and so lucky me. But beyond that, I do see a very scary piece, and we've talked on the show, I'm sure at some point about incels and that whole piece. But there's a lot of women need to understand energy and there's a lot of anger, which is particularly scary because we know when men are angry rather than just go sit somewhere and rot.

Speaker 3: 30:50

There are times when they then explode and their anger ends in other people's deaths or other really horrific and ugly things. You know what I'm saying? And so white male rage white male rage Yep exactly.

Speaker 3: 31:06

You know. So it's really horrifying that the very response to all right, this is bullshit and I'm not going to do it, just because everyone says I should want to do it, results in more of the bad behavior. Like I've said more than once about incels hey, there were girls that didn't want to fuck me. You know what I did? I worked out, popped a mitt, took a shower. What the fuck's the matter with you that you think like, oh, nobody will fuck me, I'm gonna shoot up the joint. Like what the fuck Like?

Speaker 4: 31:34

what, yeah, what White dude rage? Very much so. And also the thing that I love the most is watching women decide I am not going to compromise my standards in order to get a partner. I am going to live a full life outside of having a partner. And then people are like if you don't watch out, you're never gonna get a husband that way and she's like bitch. I already made that choice. I already decided that this is not like. You don't need to warn me about how I'm gonna die alone with my cats. That is in my will. I am hanging out with my cats until I die, like. This is the plan. You can't threaten me with a good time.

Speaker 3: 32:13

But listen to. What's built into that also is you know what? I'm not gonna get married until I find a man worthy of making my partner. Well then you're gonna die alone. Built into that is the acknowledgement like we don't got men like that.

Speaker 2: 32:31

Like wait, what? Yeah? Yeah, it's fucking wise. This may be the only positive byproduct of social media, because what? The way this has happened, the way this has come about is so, yes, I love everything you're both saying. Once upon a time, it will currently also, and then, more often in some cultures than other cultures, the pressing person who is going to try to force you into a relationship they understand is older members of your family, right? So it's your aunts and it's your mom and it's your grandmother. Oh, honey, you need a man, whatever right. But social media has made it really apparent to a younger generation, which is a smarter and more informed generation, that they don't want to find out the hard way. So, the way I see it, it happens in three tiers. I've talked many, many, many times on this podcast about the abundance, the overabundance, the surplus of utterly mind-blowing, amazing over 50 women who did their. They paid their dues in the way that they saw in the world that they were raised in. They did all the right things right.

Speaker 2: 33:54

And then they raised their children properly and they have come comported to the rules and norms of society. And then their kids moved on and they sat there with an absolute bag of bones as a husband and said, for the very first time, they allowed themselves to ask the question what do I want? And so that's why you have this sort of golden era of moms and women who have started to think of themselves after they've raised their children. The second group is a slightly younger group of women who are divorces or they had a long-term relationship and then they thought, okay, I have children now with a partner. I have children with a man. Why is it that he more resembles a child than he does a partner, an equal partner in this? Why is it that I have to manage his affairs on top of managing the children's affairs, instead of him equally sharing the responsibilities of the child rearing? And they say you know what, I'm gonna do it on my own. And so that's the middle tier, right. And they go because they say it's easier. Like you would think it would be more difficult, but it's not because it's one less person to be a burden to me. And this is we've spoken about it how they? You know, historically there's this thing in this country I'm speaking for the United States, but I know they've done it in different versions elsewhere in the world where it's like oh, you have a misbehaving boy, let's sit him next to a really well-behaved, smart, upwardly mobile girl and she'll calm him down as if it's her responsibility to sort of curb the boy's behavior.

Speaker 2: 35:55

Societally we have it's a lie that we've sold women forever. And then you have the third tier, which are young women who go fuck it. I'm not doing that Because of social media. They see it and they go. I have no desire to destroy my life before it starts.

Speaker 2: 36:12

Why would I do this? Like, unless you can come to me as a partner, as a real equal in maturity, in effort, in outlook, in worldview, why would I do this? And then you have amazing young women who they will, they'll say, all right, let's this interesting dynamic of they're not romantic partners but they will live together for an extended period of time, they'll share bills, they'll do they're sort of like working together more of a team, in a way that you would usually do with them, someone you would couple with in your 20s, and it's because they're like I'm not gonna settle, and I think that. So that revolution is already happening in three different ways, and you both rightly point out that men need to catch up. One of the reasons I bring up the lack of role models is because it's something we have to get right. It's something we really need to rethink and define what we expect of men of the next generation, and that leads us into this. Actually, really, I love this scene so much.

Speaker 3: 37:34

This is a it's sneaky deep, but that's our man, yeah no no, no, it is right.

Speaker 2: 37:40

This is a recharging hope with leadership, the principles conference, the eighth annual principles conference. From 9 am to 12 pm, we got depression in academics. From 12 to 3 pm, we have regaining the reins. These are the. This is the schedule of events at the Recharging Hope with Leadership Conference for school principals. And this is where we pivot over to, of course, principal Tommy Cole, played by Michael Malley, who I just wanna hang out with all the time. I just love Michael Malley so much, he's so good. He's one of those guys we talked about. He's just good in everything, everything. And so we go into. We saw him in a previous scene in his hotel room with Orlando and he couldn't figure out what to write. He just had procrastinating. He has no idea. He's gotta give a speech. He has no idea what to do, and so he settled on. What did he decide on? Voss?

Speaker 4: 38:40

Oh, that was about how you have to listen in order to lead and be a principal although I might be pulling that from Saved by the Bell. When Mr Belling said I think a near identical thing, I didn't watch that show. That much.

Speaker 2: 38:53

He just Googles speech for principals and steals it off the internet. Okay, and that's what he's gonna go into this one. So we move in with people sort of cheering or clapping for one of the speakers and we have Michael Malley. Sorry, but old Tommy Cole, he is nervous, he's got his tie on and the speaker in front of him. I mean this, you can't say, you can't write this, but just so, so brutal. He says I'm the next one up and then the speaker goes and the first lines of the speaker are what here, coach?

Speaker 3: 39:39

To lead is to listen. To educate is to understand. To steal a speech off the internet is a really bad idea. I can't, because now you're screwed.

Speaker 4: 39:50

I can't believe you almost said that you couldn't write this because I was gonna say if Tommy Cole and apparently you had done yourself the favor of watching bring it on, you would have known that this shit happens. You don't hire the fake coach in order to give you a dance. You create your own, and then you aren't embarrassed by the fucking team right before you doing the exact same dance at regionals, and then the Clovers don't need to beat your ass in the next dance competition. What are you people doing? What were you doing in 1999 that you learned? Watching bring it on.

Speaker 4: 40:25

It's already been brought in.

Speaker 2: 40:26

It has been brought in.

Speaker 4: 40:28

I'm sure I watched bring it on, oh you should.

Speaker 2: 40:29

It's phenomenal.

Speaker 4: 40:31

I stand by it. I know quite.

Speaker 3: 40:34

I. I haven't seen it since then, but I definitely saw it Because I remember thinking like yeah, yeah, yeah right, they stole all this.

Speaker 2: 40:42

I enjoyed that shit. Yes, yes, now, yeah, I just got a spark of memory. Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 4: 40:48

Yeah, Kirsten Dunst and Gabriel Union.

Speaker 2: 40:51

Yes.

Speaker 4: 40:52

I mean come on, yeah, no you're right.

Speaker 2: 40:53

That was really good. I really enjoyed that. Now Bobby Cole is. He's parked folks, he is the next speaker up and he, the gentleman in front of him, is as much of a burnout as he is. He is fucked. What is he going to do in this situation? He looks so helpless. He looks at his speech. He goes oh for fuck's sake, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then Quickly coach Excuse me, I also think this.

Speaker 3: 41:28

I mean, I think it's a little bit of a. I also think this I mean I'm glad you say a burnout it's such a like it's all so hopeless, it's all so hopeless and it just seems like that's the piece. For me, that is Wayne is a product of all the other things we're seeing here and in a way, I feel like Gellar's pursuit of him and our resaving Wayne from the world, and the world from where I think at some point you were going to get a Wayne out of this system right, like where you gather principles Like these are the people who would call you into their office to talk about why plagiarism is a problem, and there are enough of them stealing speeches that we've got the same stolen speech in a row. So, yeah, I feel like it really just highlights like we're so far gone, it's so far off the rails that, yes, we are saving. It is crazy.

Speaker 2: 42:41

It is crazy and you feel like teaching is ground zero for it, because we're so. It's funny. I have a friend who is brilliant and brilliant in the way that's like he's the son of two philosophy professors and he will come up with things sometimes that just is really out of left field. We were talking about AI and the singularity and things like that and he said he's like, I'm not saying AI has taken over already. I know people are thinking about the future where AI takes over, he's like. But if you were AI and you went back to, let's say, right around 9-11, right, and you could take over, then Wouldn't you slowly erode the foundations that have given humans comfort over the years, to the point where they need desperately for another entity to come in and make sense of it? He's like you look at teaching. And I will forever kick myself because I saw this one.

Speaker 2: 43:50

It was one I've referenced it before on the show. It was a cartoon, like a little comic, one panel cartoon I can't remember it must have been the New Yorker or something, but it was from the perspective of the teacher looking at the teacher's class. There was a woman teacher in the cartoon and in the front of every desk. It showed the particular sort of challenge of each student. So one kid was autistic, another kid was food. What do you call it, boss? What's the term? Food, insolvent, or what's?

Speaker 2: 44:29

They don't have food at home. They don't have food at home. Food insecure.

Speaker 2: 44:33

Food insecure, yeah, food insecure. And then another kid was dyslexic and another kid was. And you look at the teacher, looking at 30 desks with 30 different things, like, oh, one is domestic abuse, one is child divorce, one is you know. And you go and you say, how are teachers trained? What we expect from them is so otherworldly. And then you know what we do we pay them in cabbage and we don't. They don't have a place of reverence and respect and we don't give them the support they need to transition these kids from hopelessness to hopefulness. And what ends up happening is you have principals full of shit copying speeches off the internet. The classic sort of positioning structure has always been that Orwell's 1984 painted a brutal view of the future and so many more people are not coming over to Aldous Huxley's Brave New World version of it, where you're just absolutely sconstant, stupid and you can't make out heads or tails anywhere For someone in a position of leadership to be so morally bankrupt as to yes, right, you just say what? Go ahead, boss.

Speaker 4: 46:00

I'm going to disagree with morally bankrupt, because I don't think that we think Butthole Tommy Cole is morally bankrupt. We think that he is broken down by a system that is so overwhelmingly against him Like he didn't.

Speaker 4: 46:13

He wanted to do a good job. He wanted to give an impressive speech because he wanted to get the iPads even though the students are going to take it up on them, like he wants to do well for the school and he is at capacity in terms of bandwidth. So he takes somebody else's idea of a good speech because he wants to do well, because he's trying.

Speaker 2: 46:33

So it's unconscionable, though. Yes, yes, right, he's not completely bankrupt as a human being, but you cannot plagiarize a speech as a person who teaches people to not plagiarize anything Like. It is contemptible, and so it's interesting. I understand where you're coming from. I would just say, like he really can't make this particular choice.

Speaker 3: 46:55

It's interesting though I think. So I would. Yes, and the things you're saying, you're each saying because I'm with you, coach, and that's why I said that, in that what you just said is accurate, like what are we doing here Also, I mean, it reminds me of some years back, and I'm not condoning this in any way. I'm actually saying that it's the yes and that we're bridging here, because what Boss brings up is also valid, which is we put people in impossible. We put people in impossible circumstances, we put people in desperate circumstances and then we wail on them for making the desperate choice right. So if desperate times calls for desperate measures and this guy's got nothing like he is so spent that he's got nothing when he looks inside and says, okay, where are the words? There are no words there Then he does the desperate thing about it. And it reminds me I want to say it was in Atlanta actually, it was definitely in the greater Atlanta area Some teachers got busted, like I think some ended up doing prison time actually because they basically had a cheating scheme and so their school gets funding or whatever based on kid scores.

Speaker 3: 48:18

The kid scores were going to be horrific. So they basically set up a whole cheating thing and they got busted. Like I said, I think some people actually went to prison for this shit. And part of me was like you can't do that. I totally think that has to be punished. I get it. Another part of me was like do you think anybody in this cheating ring set out on the educational journey and were like you know what I'm going to do, I'm going to make shit money so I can break the law for some goddamn test scores? Like there's no way. So we put people in desperate situations and we really wail on them when they make bad choices. But when all you have are bad choices, you're probably going to pay for it.

Speaker 2: 49:07

That's a great point and I want to point out that we have different rules for different socioeconomic classes. Absolutely Like you know, the housing and mortgage crisis.

Speaker 4: 49:18

Housing crisis I think one person or two people went to did some soft time and you think yeah, If the movie the big short is to believe, I think that it was one guy who was like a junior associate or some bullshit.

Speaker 3: 49:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:39

Imagine if you were that guy and you're like what for real? Like are you me? Like, are you guys fucking serious, like I know, yes, I snore coke, I'm a dick, I'm saying I'm just making myself.

Speaker 4: 49:53

I don't want to get sued.

Speaker 2: 49:54

But I'm saying, if I were that guy I'd be like okay, yeah, I'm a shithead, you know boiler room banker guy. But like, yeah, holy shit, like, are you fucking like me? It was all me, huh and Ron brought the whole country.

Speaker 3: 50:11

Tell them that Okay.

Speaker 2: 50:14

Anyway. So yeah, bobby Cole, sitting there. Orlando says he just steal your stolen speech, dumbass. Just scrolled to the second one. That's what Orlando says because he has more experience in plagiarizing than the principal does. Of course. Right Now we cut over to I mean, what is? What is Tommy Cole going to do? We don't know. We cut over to the dance, over at where Adele is hanging out with, like this is her first time in. It's not her first time in a dance, because we've seen her in an event right at her school. But this is like a different sort of vibe with Jen and Stacy, right, is it Stacy? What's the last other name? Hold on one second.

Speaker 4: 51:03

I thought it was Tish, Tish, wait, no, Tish it's not Tish. Tish is another character.

Speaker 2: 51:09

Why am I getting confused, jenny, and?

Speaker 4: 51:14

Trish with an R, not Tish.

Speaker 2: 51:18

Jenny and Trish and so, yeah, okay, so we get this sort of all American looking quarterback dude. Walks up to Adele and uses, I mean, I think, probably the coolest line ever spoken. Probably works all the time. What does he say, boss?

Speaker 4: 51:46

Oh, you mean Andy Sandberg's son here.

Speaker 2: 51:49

Is that who he looks like to you? Oh yeah, andy Sandberg's. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, a little bit.

Speaker 4: 51:53

He says hey, you like football. Which is Now I'm going to complain and say a similar line did work on me once, but that was when I was at a table with a group of my friends and a gentleman strolled over and said so do ladies like robots? And then we went on another date and that was like 18 years ago.

Speaker 2: 52:23

Shut up, that's a friend.

Speaker 3: 52:29

I'm so goddamn happy right now. I'm so happy right now. If you could harness my happiness right now, you could fucking power a city, oh my.

Speaker 4: 52:46

So okay. So here's the thing we met at a party and then he had a birthday party a couple of weeks later that he invited me to because he was like, yeah, we should go have more dates. And so at that second party like we already made out anything new that I liked him. I was at the table with two of my friends talking and he got finished doing something else and then came over and that was the opener, but that is what he said. Like he came over to us with our drinks and said so do you, ladies, like robots? Uh-huh.

Speaker 2: 53:18

I mean it's cool, what.

Speaker 3: 53:23

After 7,500 hours of running my mouth and coach giving me looks that are like please, god, let us get through one minute of screen time. You have rendered me speechless. I am. I got nothing.

Speaker 5: 53:37

Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 53:38

I love it so much, but I really don't have any commentary, nothing, I'm just okay.

Speaker 4: 53:44

And it's not that he thought that the line would work. He thought it would be funny, but also, if we were interested in talking about robots, he would be up for that. Like it works either way for him.

Speaker 2: 53:54

It reminds me of this thing. I saw that. Really, it just cracked me up. I'm going to read it here. It was in my feed on threads and it was from somebody called Damon Adams and he said imagine if people knocked on your door to talk about science instead of religion. Hi, we just like a quick chat about the possibility of life in the atmosphere of Venus and thought you might be interested in hearing about phosphine. And I thought, oh boy, that would be a different world to live in. You just don't get people coming to you with a lot of the interesting you know like did that kind of thing. So I really like the robots. I like that. It worked for you, boss. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's a little blank there.

Speaker 2: 54:51

So this guy says, hey, you like football and Dell. Man, she knows how to flirt. What does she say?

Speaker 4: 54:59

No.

Speaker 2: 55:02

No, and he pivots right away. I love it. He says what boss?

Speaker 4: 55:09

Yeah, that's why I wrote same.

Speaker 2: 55:12

Yeah, awesome.

Speaker 4: 55:12

Same.

Speaker 2: 55:13

Yeah, that's why I wrote.

Speaker 3: 55:18

I love that they added that line, because if he just walks away in a way, I get to like kind of just write him off as just some jerk oh, it's the long kid football player. But for me the pivot said well, yeah, it was an awkward first line because he's some 17 year old kid in a plaid shirt, in a kind of weird tie, button down collar, like he's figuring this out too, you know what I mean. Like he is awkward, because of course he's awkward and I think it would have been easy to write him off as just like football player one more easily. Yeah, if you don't have that pivot.

Speaker 4: 55:59

Yeah, no, he is. His character is the opposite of what I am into. My thing is confident nerd and he is awkward. Jack, it's the opposite side of the spectrum from what I'm interested in.

Speaker 2: 56:15

I love this guy. I boy boy. I can't tell you how much I just enjoyed a black man, sort of just going to bat for an awkward handsome. Well, it's not me who I really man, I appreciated that. And Dale says oh honey, bless your heart, she's quick study that.

Speaker 3: 56:43

I like that too, though, like it shows, like she's, she's, she's quick, you don't have to tell, you have to tell. Tell Del twice. What does that mean? How do you use it?

Speaker 2: 56:52

Boom, boom got it Moving on, yeah.

Speaker 3: 56:54

I'm hearing that I got it.

Speaker 2: 56:56

Well, it's funny because the girls Trish and Jen were not really using Wicked correctly, Right, they were sort of sort of workshopping it, but man Del Del can just just use it out in the wild off the cuff. And while she's doing that on one side of the gymnasium, who should enter on the other side of the gymnasium? Coach.

Speaker 3: 57:19

Here comes Wayne in the pink suit. We saw offered to him earlier the shirt to match, and that was, I believe, trish's dad got married in that. I'm going to go ahead and call it a get up, and that's an ensemble for sure. Yeah, it's quite something. And so now he looks over. I actually really appreciated this moment. He looks over and our awkward jock touches Del's arm Obviously a little. You know, hey, am I making any progress here or not? Kind of a move, you know, it's not a, it's not a group, but it's definitely a touch. And Wayne spots it and we zoom in on it. We see the intensity in him seeing that and he balls his fist, and in real time. I got very tense because I was like, oh no, like, this poor kid is a boy, this kid is about to get destroyed. And he was just trying to ask a cute girl to dance, like he really didn't ask for this, and so what happens next was wait, coach, let's talk to the light coach.

Speaker 2: 58:28

What? Tell me why you knew visually. Didn't say we didn't see you, right, right. What are the camera choices? What are the editing choices that they've?

Speaker 3: 58:38

made. We go to an extreme close, or certainly a close on the hand on the arm, reverse to a close, zooming in, pretty like almost racking to Wayne's face. So we know like it's an intense moment. And then there's a tight shot on Wayne's fist balling up. So I mean it's the dots are connected from us Arm, eyes, fist, and then we see Wayne charge out of frame in that direction and I was scared.

Speaker 2: 59:18

The show has conditioned us. Right. So I love this reaction because I was like this is not, bro Wayne, I love you, this is not. Yes, I'm taking taking advantage of immigrants Like this is not, you know, like migrant workers. This is not that you know. This is not the the your landlord, mr Hernandez, saying he hopes your dad dies Like right.

Speaker 2: 59:46

You know what I mean. Or your mom was a lot of guys in and out of there, you know. I don't know if you're actually our kid or his kid about his father. So I was very concerned when we see Wayne start charging and, thankfully, what happens to your coach?

Speaker 3: 1:00:04

Wayne use the momentum of said charge, slides on his knees, fist in the air. I mean amazing. It's like straight out of you know some 80s. The preacher didn't let us dance, but one kid decided to buck the system kind of a moment and then he stands up.

Speaker 2: 1:00:26

Was it a Saturday Night Fever move? I'm trying to think of where. I've seen that before.

Speaker 3: 1:00:30

It might have been it has your referencing. Footloose maybe, but that's what I was thinking, but it could have been like it's a stand alive.

Speaker 2: 1:00:39

I don't know. I'm like, I feel like I've seen the knees, head down, fist in the air. I don't know, boss, anything you got on here.

Speaker 4: 1:00:46

You have and you're going to be either excited or embarrassed. It is from Teen Wolf. It 100% has to be from Teen Wolf, okay, wow.

Speaker 2: 1:00:55

I mean, if he didn't do that exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:00:57

It is so closely mimicking him, writing the band through the middle of the town like dancing on it. That is what they're doing.

Speaker 3: 1:01:08

It wasn't.

Speaker 2: 1:01:08

Teen Wolf doing something else too. Wasn't that an homage to something else I'm trying to remember? We'll have to look this up.

Speaker 4: 1:01:15

Then 80s had a number of men dancing in the streets for no reason. It's like why was Ferris Bueller in the middle of the St Patrick's Day parade? It doesn't make any sense, it just happens.

Speaker 3: 1:01:24

Yeah, that's interesting. Was that like the like progress for men you can be free enough to like dance full out moment.

Speaker 4: 1:01:34

Oh, maybe, maybe now you're such a badass that you can dance.

Speaker 3: 1:01:38

Yeah, it still be a badass.

Speaker 4: 1:01:39

That's what they're going for here, for sure. You're wearing pink and you're dancing and you are a badass, great job.

Speaker 2: 1:01:47

The rules were different back then. I was in a thing called the Civil Air Patrol, which was the United States Air Force Auxiliary. It was training young members of society to understand how the military works and give them a sort of a quick way into the Air Force. I came from a military family so I went to the we call it the CAP. They had all these great sponsorship opportunities and these great scholarships. If you're good enough, if you're cadet that really proved yourself. You could level up and rank up and then get into the Air Force Academy. It still exists today.

Speaker 2: 1:02:38

It's weirdly unknown. I don't know why more people don't know about it, but I remember I went to this encampment. We had to stay two weeks on this military base and that was probably 13. Maybe, yeah, right around that age. I remember that on the way we had a really good group I'm trying to think what we called it back then. It was like a wing or something like that. I remember marching to the final parade. We had been practicing, or no one could see us where we would put our shades on like a top gun and then we would sort of do this dance, step as the whole in while we were marching and the place went fucking bananas when we did it and we won every award and the guy that was our commanding officer, who was like a cadet, he got he got like one of those crazy scholarships and ended up later on in the Air Force Academy. I just remember, I love it. I remember knowing we were so fucking cool and you couldn't. It was just a simpler time. It was just like it was kind of crazy.

Speaker 4: 1:03:57

This is when I see the commercials for and not even commercials, but like the 70s ads, where the models are all wearing matching overall outfits with turtlenecks, and they're like doing dances in front of the cars, and I'm like this was a different time. This was a time when people didn't understand what models jobs were. Because it's not. It's not to wear overalls like that, it's not what they're supposed to be doing.

Speaker 2: 1:04:24

It says you boss. This goes back like if you want to understand that time. The greatest glimpse into that is the. For those of you who have not seen the show, the peacemaker it is the title. Sequence to peacemaker is a throwback. James Gunn is the director. It is a throwback to a different era where you would have everybody in the cast dancing and it is so preposterous to see it now you just can't believe your eyes because it's always this really weird, awkward dancing, you know, hyper choreographed no one smiles.

Speaker 2: 1:05:06

I'll put it on the community site because it's my favorite thing. When I am in a crummy mood, I will play the peacemaker title sequence just to laugh and be like God damn, things aren't that bad, like you know. It's just. You just watch it and you go. I cannot believe this is how we used to do it. How were we ever this simple? It was like amazing.

Speaker 4: 1:05:28

I did not know that that was a real song. I thought that that was a song that they made for the TV show itself. Oh, it turns out, it turns out.

Speaker 2: 1:05:35

No, no, it's a real song, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:05:38

Duds, do you want to taste it by Wigwam?

Speaker 2: 1:05:41

or Wigwam, yes, Norwegian band, yeah, wigwam, jesus Christ. James Gunn does a thing every year where he puts out like his top songs of he's great because he did it was Guardians of the Galaxy. I remember like the way he incorporated music into the first Guardians of the Galaxy. I was like, wow, this is I don't know. I guess it's probably my nostalgia talking because he's he listed the same stuff I did. We talked about Ted Lasso and how some of the you know some of the moments you were like okay, whatever we were doing, we were doing it elsewhere at the same time. But anyway, it is a simpler time and when Wayne does this sliding me thing, we know Wayne has read a book, at least a book about werewolves, I think it was and he has not seen many movies. The point where his like cultural knowledge is like squat, it's worse than like a World War II veteran.

Speaker 2: 1:06:39

You know like he has seen nothing right, doesn't watch TV, doesn't not aware of movies. So his knee slide with a fist in the air is really authentic. And then what does he do here, boss?

Speaker 4: 1:06:53

And then he stands up and starts doing a side to side dance, as white people are watched to do. But it is very clear that it's a great move. It is a great.

Speaker 2: 1:07:03

I will say from a white person Define great right. Yeah, great Meaning it's accessible to most of us.

Speaker 4: 1:07:11

No, that's fine, that's that's. That's what I knew, that was well coach. I hate to say it, but yes and it works in a lot of different situations, whether you are at a high school dance or at a rave, or stoned in your kitchen and putting chili lime cashews on top of an ice cream which I created last night.

Speaker 4: 1:07:34

For example, I was going to say at maybe just you know spitball or you know, I've heard from other people say those things, but this is very clearly. He is not being an asshole anymore. He is not preventing Dow from enjoying herself by refusing to engage. He is not saying you go, do what you want to do and I'm leaving.

Speaker 2: 1:07:58

This is effort. This is effort. He is efforting. This is coming into the boat.

Speaker 4: 1:08:04

And I. This is another one of those words that become verbs that I love so much. He is efforting, and I'm going to be using that as a verb. Putting in the effort means to be a thing.

Speaker 2: 1:08:15

Yeah, he really talked about that. That's the biggest predictor of success. Remember, is effort and student puts into their work, not the grades that they get Coach go ahead.

Speaker 3: 1:08:25

Well, I was going to say on the reverse shot because we had the react, we saw what it looked like on Wayne side to see the touch of the arm. We go back from the slide and the fist in the air and two step to the two shot of Dell and our awkward jock. And Dell's got the beginnings of a smile and the awkward jock looks horrified at the dance, at the display itself, and I think that's really great because, like for real, in real life, like most of us would be, like what the fuck is happening.

Speaker 2: 1:09:03

What the?

Speaker 3: 1:09:03

fuck are you doing? What is he doing? And I love that we actually visually since we were talking about the camera work we visually remove awkward jock from the picture. We actually literally get him out of there and it's just Dell watching. Wayne. Quote, unquote dance.

Speaker 2: 1:09:27

Yeah, that's cruel. Quotes are cruel. You know, coach, rhythm is not something that is universally distributed.

Speaker 3: 1:09:39

As you may have all guessed, coach and I have joked in this area. In this area before, we once had to do a group dance together, and he was. He was very pleased that I could could just pick up the count wherever and make sure everybody was going where they needed to go and said group dance, but they, but they go.

Speaker 2: 1:10:02

It was a friend's, it was a friend's wedding and it was, what was it? The chicken dance, what was it?

Speaker 3: 1:10:06

No, no, no, no, no, it was the, it was the cha cha slide Maybe.

Speaker 2: 1:10:11

Yeah, yeah, right, that's what it was. Yeah, yeah, which is what we went to. We were in Memphis, yes, right, and we read that club in Memphis. Yeah, and that song came on. So that song is like torture for me. I'm like, oh my God, I feel like get into a freaking line dance. I feel like this is like put me in the back. This is hell. And you know, of course, coach, you can imagine coach, coach can move. You know, we've heard him sing. He dances every bit as well as he sings, and I remember it being in this club.

Speaker 2: 1:10:46

I don't know if it was you I pointed it out to, but there was this older black man in this club. It's funny because we went to sort of a black club and went to sort of a white club. You remember that they? Were next to that I do remember.

Speaker 3: 1:10:56

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:10:58

And the white club was. You know, it makes it just makes me sound like a race trader, because I go. The black club was so fucking awesome, it was so great, and the white club was so boring. And I don't mean that. I'm sorry, that was the case.

Speaker 3: 1:11:11

What happened at night? Is this the reality of what happened that night?

Speaker 2: 1:11:14

It was so much fun. In like the quote, it wasn't a black club, but it was predominantly black attendees and people there, and I remember this. That cha cha slide or whatever it was came on and this one dude he was black guy, he had to be 60. I saw his face light up and I sat there and a few drinks in me, so I was prone to just smile and stare. And he was the happiest man on the planet. I may have grabbed you and pulled you over to watch this guy, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 1:11:47

Because he was so excited when this song came on. He's like it's my jam, yeah, this is his jam, and his body would, and it would just flow with this song. And I was like isn't this funny that you know, I talk about, you know, one man's trousers and another man's treasure. When I hear the song, my skin goes cold and I go, oh fuck, oh no, oh no, oh God. And this guy heard it and it was my God. It was a, it was a thing of beauty to watch him. He danced every set you know what I mean Like, and he was not dancing with anybody, he was off like on the corner of the dance floor by himself and he had this whole thing he did. And I was like this is, it was like pure joy, it was like watching pure joy. And meanwhile, wayne's dance is much more akin to a Napoleon dynamite, like holy fuck, I don't know what this is, but he's feeling it and so I'll feel it with him in that way. Yes, boss, go ahead.

Speaker 4: 1:12:46

I just am having such an issue getting past the fact that you thought maybe coach Bishop needed to teach you the chicken dance. I haven't stopped thinking about it for like the four minutes since you said it.

Speaker 2: 1:12:58

You know I should. I know chicken dance. I just remember it was like the name. That's the chicken dance, right, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:13:07

All of a sudden wondering if you need to be. Do you listen to the instructions to the hokey pokey? Is that a thing that you also need to do Like?

Speaker 2: 1:13:14

do you know any of them? Oh boss, no, no, you're mocking me as if it's not, as if, like, I can't get to where you want me to be on this. I really wish I could, but like, the Macarena is like chemistry, I don't understand what you're fucking talking. Like, I cannot do it. I wish I could. My brain does not function in that particular way. Yeah, no, no, seriously, it's, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's the real. You know what I mean? I don't.

Speaker 4: 1:13:46

Because like I'm old, I'm I mean not super old, but like definitely older than when I did dance and I am a white person. But like when back that ass up comes on, you go out and you bag your ass up and I so you're, you're a different flavor of light. Yeah, interesting, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:14:07

Back in my ass. Up is off the fucking dance floor. I'll tell you that?

Speaker 3: 1:14:11

That's not.

Speaker 2: 1:14:11

There's. No, I mean, it would be a dream of mine. Sometimes I say, you know, oh, they say oh well, if you could wish for something which I was like, oh, if I could sing and dance for one minute, like and understand what it felt like to be on pitch and on key and and have my hips move the way I see people's hips move and have my shoulders. When I went to Vanuatu a long time ago, there was like school dance that I attended.

Speaker 2: 1:14:39

My sister was teaching, she was in the Peace Corps, she was teaching science in Vanuatu and I remember when the school dance and this, this student that I absolutely love, he was probably 16 at the time. He was the greatest kid in the world, he was a tall black kid and he all he would do you can't see it because we're on the video he has his shoulders kind of up and his elbows kind of out. His fists were in tight. This is all he did was sway with it. He didn't do anything and it was amazing and I'm like, how is that a dance? How does that work? You know, I would try to approximate it and I was like, no, my, I can't. This fucking stump that I was given does not do that.

Speaker 2: 1:15:21

You know. So listen, it is something I admire. It's something you know, when I I've shown, coach and boss different clips of dancers that I loved, you know like they've seen me admire dance and I love. You know the ballet and I love you know every form of the human body doing movement signed me up for, you know, not the least of which is athletics, and you've heard me wax poetic about oily hips a million times and getting skinny through the hole and and I love it, I love everything that the human body can do.

Speaker 2: 1:15:57

I just I tend not to be able to approximate it myself, but Wayne, on the dance floor, it's awkward. It's not the greatest dancing you'll ever see, but commitment is a big thrill, like someone that just commits. You know it's like why that Napoleon Dynamite scene worked. It's why when you say man, this, if you're all in, you're all in. And he is all in for Dell in this scene, to the point where it's so crazy, you know he gets identified. What the fuck is that? And I think it's Jen says, oh, that's fucking Wayne. And then everybody backs up and starts chanting Wayne, you know, similarly to you know, it's like what we would say for Wanker from Ted Lasso, it's that level of everyone in the joint is watching this one. Do and keep going here, coach.

Speaker 3: 1:16:58

So they're chanting Wayne, he does, he does like floss, but it's horrible. Then there's like kind of a Frankenstein ish move, and then we return to the jumping.

Speaker 2: 1:17:09

You can't even you can't even, you don't even have words for it. It's only ish, because it's. It's a Jason, you know, it's not a it's not just Frankenstein.

Speaker 3: 1:17:24

And then he starts jumping around, which reminded me of the first time.

Speaker 5: 1:17:27

She went out to his room and he jumped around like a lunatic.

Speaker 3: 1:17:30

So he's just like whatever he's like, this is it, this is, this is all he's got. He does a spin to end it, which is amazing Falls back to his knees and says do you want to dance with me? And she says I don't know how sweaty are your hands. Very, very, just, very cool. You know, it feels like Olivia Newton John should have said that at some point to John Travolta, or something Like just like perfect. And then he takes her hand and they start to dance and they and everyone starts dancing around them and Dell joins him for a second, jumping like a lunatic, which is just amazing, the whole thing. He's so. He so gives himself over that. It's almost. It's not almost.

Speaker 3: 1:18:18

I think this scene works because the dancing is so awkward, like if he knew how to dance and he came in doing the latest moves, then okay, great, like thanks for coming to the party. But the fact that he's like I will just lay it all out here for all to see if it means I get to be next to you, that's that. That is a definition of love we just watched unfold. It's pretty, that's pretty sweet stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:18:49

We talk about characters, sort of learning the ropes. We did a lot of this on Ted Lasso, we we? One of the reasons I chose Wayne as a show we were going to watch is because these transformational choices are so clear in Wayne. When Dell says, hey, listen, it took you an hour to get me tampons, and and he and he was hung up. Whatever, he makes up for that by being being there for her. Again, like whenever there's an issue, he knows he's being a wiener, he knows that he's being a killjoy. When she's clearly, you know, having fun with Trish and Jen. And there's this, he does the Mopi thing. First, mopi, choice, right, fine, it seemed like you want to have fun without me in it, right, which is just not attractive at all as a choice, right, and. And then he, he just recalibrates. He takes Saddam somehow to be the. You know we talk about the hero's journey and and and. Somehow he needed that guidance from a mentor or test.

Speaker 3: 1:20:00

You know, I'm glad you just brought that up, by the way, because for me, for me, I think, generally, but I certainly appreciate it when people take the element of the story that need to be there and they give it to us in a way that we go oh, I didn't see it coming to us that way and in a way we get wise old mentor, but once removed.

Speaker 3: 1:20:27

So the wise old mentor is actually the guy at the table because he's the one who explains yeah, I don't give a shit if I don't like the you know if I, if I don't, if I like mushrooms, like who gives a shot right, and that that message is relayed to, gets to Wayne and it gets Wayne eventually to slide across the floor and do his dance. But it comes, it's like a, a carrom, you know what I mean. It's like it's off of this clown behind the counter.

Speaker 2: 1:20:56

It filtered through some ass hat to get there which? Is the Sean Simmons effect here in the show.

Speaker 3: 1:21:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:21:03

You see the right, it's not the direct line Obi-Wan Kenobi, it's as if it goes through some absolute wing nut in order to get to him, and that's that's the effect that we like. That's the effect of this show, and it's also the thing that we call that last episode, which is there's no small characters. Everybody is memorable, everybody's interesting, everybody has a unique story, all to themselves, that exists independently of Wayne and Dell passing through it. It's, it is the fundamental cornerstone of world building, and they do a tremendous job of it. Go ahead, coach. I've been going boss.

Speaker 4: 1:21:42

Like, well, before we move on from Wayne deciding to go to the dance and also deciding to enjoy himself in the dance, that is part of the break between masculinity and toxic masculinity that we've been talking about. You actually need to do those things in order to break the toxic masculinity. I was talking to a body of mine a couple of weeks ago about a couple of we know who's getting divorced, and I'm a little bit closer with the wife. So he was saying, like you know what happened? Like how did that? What was the breakdown? And I said he made her problems, her problems, their problems, her problems and his problems, their problems. And he shifted everything over so that she was doing more of the mental work and more of the mental load and when they had issues he was responding at least, and I said he loves her.

Speaker 1: 1:22:35

Like it's not a question of her, of him loving her.

Speaker 4: 1:22:38

It is a question of him being willing to be kind instead of being right. Like half the time all he needed to say was I'm going to do that, I'm going to take care of that, I'm going to fucking fix that, and then it would have been fine. Instead, he thought with her about how to fix it and that ruined their marriage. So this is the shit, like. I think that the whole happy wife, happy life is reductive and from another time and partners should be good to each other. But there is such an onus on men to be in control of things and in order to have things done in the way that they like that they don't realize that they're ruining shit for everybody around them. Like, just fucking be nice, just go to the fucking dance and dance with your girlfriend If you wanted to like you fucking show up and do the shit she wants you to, and that's just about being a decent human being to the people around you.

Speaker 3: 1:23:29

Just at me, next to it.

Speaker 2: 1:23:29

Okay, yeah yeah, that felt like an attack on coach you could have saved this with a private text.

Speaker 2: 1:23:41

Yeah, boss, I would say yes, for sure. And the reason that men don't do that is because of, like an oppressive, you know, set of set of rules that society poses on them. Where they cannot do, first of all, can't capitulate, because they're a big, tough man, can't prioritize somebody else's basic desires over their own and God forbid, their frenzied. So it's this whole awful, self-perpetuating dynamic and we talk about that, you know, hegemonic patriarchy and the system that it continues to where it continues to churn through people. But you're very right, and you pointed out right at the beginning of this episode it doesn't just hurt women by hurting men, it eventually hurts women also. So it is a, it's brutal.

Speaker 3: 1:24:39

Coach, go ahead. Yeah, just, you know I crack jokes because you know I'm broken inside. But but to boss's real point there, I think to. It's easy.

Speaker 3: 1:24:55

I think as many as so much investment in winning, like this generally, like the importance of winning, like somebody pointed out to me once that there are games, there are actually games that nobody wins.

Speaker 3: 1:25:09

When you play catch, you don't win a catch, you play catch and both people get to throw and both people get to catch and you just play. And how often, even for myself, I just go to competing and sometimes the competition is healthy but sometimes not so healthy, like we could just both sit here and do something and not figure out which one of us is better at it. And I bring it up because I do think one of what a piece of advice I gave my cousin when he was getting married was you do not care what color the kitchen is. This is a direct lesson from my marriage. You think you care because an issue has come up and you've formed an opinion and you want to win. But I told them all is going to happen if you quote unquote win is you're going to piss off your wife and you're going to paint the kitchen twice. Just you don't like try to win, like you're not.

Speaker 3: 1:26:10

There's no winning here. Like, whatever color she says to you or what and that's obviously the kitchen thing, is the specific thing I care about my marriage, but like, whatever that thing is like, don't be so invested in winning. It's a trap, it's. It's a fucking trap.

Speaker 2: 1:26:29

Thanks for thanks for the only advice you give me about putting women in the kitchen.

Speaker 3: 1:26:33

Katie Britt, I felt it, I felt it, I was like oh I got one piece of advice.

Speaker 2: 1:26:40

It's right.

Speaker 3: 1:26:43

That's her room. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2: 1:26:47

I said it.

Speaker 3: 1:26:48

I was like oh, no, no no, this is very specific.

Speaker 2: 1:26:51

Everybody. No, no, listen, that's right, it's great advice, listen. We just still the essence of that. We say care about the things that are worth caring about. And it is not a zero. So you can both win. Yes, and you can have a great partnership. And I we have said I got how many times in this episode on this podcast over the years and we talked about the importance of liking your spouse or your partner or your unmarried girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever, in addition to the love you just the like that you don't want. Why would you want to beat them? You know like what you should want them to get, what they want also, and if you can do it too, that's, you know worse than better. Boss, were you going to say something?

Speaker 4: 1:27:36

Oh, only that. If I had known I could come out of the kitchen, I would have done that a long time ago. I've just been recording from behind the refrigerator. It's an entire time. If you, if you guys, don't want me there, just tell me.

Speaker 3: 1:27:49

That's amazing, that's just great. Well, put the apron down and come on out of there.

Speaker 2: 1:27:55

I just want to. If you were behind the fridge, I would just want to, chris Farley, run into it as hard as I can. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and bounce off of it and have you meet, fall in one way and you fall the other way and coach me like guys again, jesus Christ.

Speaker 4: 1:28:12

Also, I find myself unable to wear aprons, so I know that that was a joke, but I watched my mother again who I don't want to slam Oliver cooking. It's just that there was never anything where I was like, oh right, yeah, no, that one thing never happened. What I definitely remember is that she didn't like paper towels because, again, she was a hippie and trying to save the earth, but also never seemed to have a hand towel on hand, so she would just wipe her hands on the top of her shirt and because of her bust there was always like a wet part and then a dry part and then a wet part lower down on her stomach, and she was just like, like just wiping her hands on any part of the shirt she could get to.

Speaker 4: 1:28:59

And so now I do own like four dozen hand towels to make sure that I don't do that.

Speaker 2: 1:29:04

Oh my God, that's so funny.

Speaker 3: 1:29:08

I don't know how you get to the joke with somewhere there's a joke of someone who likes breasts coming upon a shirt with that pattern on it and going, oh, I need to meet her.

Speaker 4: 1:29:17

Yes, yeah, like there's, it's just like everywhere, like all. It was so funny.

Speaker 2: 1:29:27

Okay. So now we get to the scene where it's. It's butthole. Tommy Cole's time to speak and I considered the best way to do this and I'm going to. I'm going to break from tradition, and if they send me a cease and desist order, so be it. But I just want to play the speech so everyone in the listening audience can hear it, because we can't do it justice by by explaining what he says. The best thing we can do is play it, so everybody listen and enjoy.

Speaker 5: 1:30:05

Hey, how you doing. I'm. I'm Tom Cole from Hagler, high Brockton, massachusetts, named after you know, marvelous Marvin Hagler, the boxer 1980s. No, no, but I was preparing for the speech. Someone told me to dig deep and speak from the heart, so I did some digging. You know it's in there.

Speaker 5: 1:30:39

Hate, lots and lots of hate. Hate for the kids, my school, my job, but mostly hate for myself. And why are you here? Gentlemen wearing slacks with sandals would like to know why I'm here. And obviously it's because I'm trying to get a grant for some electronics that'll end up being broken, stolen or shit on.

Speaker 5: 1:31:07

Now, that's true story. Fyi, last time we got tabled, somebody took an actual shit on one. Yeah, so now we need new tablets. But you know where that shit comes from your ass? No, it comes from us. It comes from the top and then that shit trickles down. Hell, I can't even. I can't even look most of the kids in the eye because if I do, their snotty, pierced faces just remind me that I'm failing them. You know, maybe some of you have given up to, we know that sandals with slacks clearly has Okay. I mean Jesus, I mean, that's a bad Jesus, by the way, we know this guy has Okay, because he stole that same speech that I was going to do. He stole it from the Internet, sorry. So all I'm saying is we got to work harder. You know, maybe we got to change first before we ask them to. So buy him some fucking iPads, thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:32:29

So good, so good. So, first of all, that he's in this room, where no one knows nor cares to know who Marvin Hagler is.

Speaker 3: 1:32:43

Like just start this off of like okay, this, no, we are not a connected. You would be, and, and but for me, like he said before, the hate he feels and I do think this like I lived a part of my life very much in fear that I would end up this person. I remember I used to do a joke about walking around the mall and seeing men wandering aimlessly with a person their hand and just, and I used to call it the hall of broken men. I had a whole bit about, but it really was scary to me that you live your life and then you take some job is all right, fine, they'll pay me to show up every day, I'll do that whatever and then at some point you just are lifeless, like you're just a shovel walking around and it's so. I mean recharging hope with leadership is on a banner behind them and it's not called taught, it's like yes, yes, this is so pathetic.

Speaker 2: 1:33:45

It's all just just like Joe versus the volcano fluorescent lighting. It's like, yeah, I mean brutal, oh my God.

Speaker 3: 1:33:53

And so, yeah, I just like it's beautiful along the way. And then the little aside jokes which like, oh, that's there, but it captures a lot too. And the soft food sandals is clearly given out like that's, that's funny, it's just so perfectly done and capture so much. And then it is an odd version of hope that this guy keeps showing up and, frankly, that he has taken time out of his life to go track way down, like at the end of the day, as much as we may be like, whatever this guy is done, he's not quite done. He's like he's held on to the sliver of hope that allows him to love his dog and have that banana that he was going to eat. You know we could have had him with like some fucking flaming hot Cheetos, but no, he's got a banana. He's. He's like a sliver of hope left in this guy that allows him to stand up there and express it, but in this very specific funny way, so that he could get tablets that some kids going to take a shit on.

Speaker 2: 1:34:56

Yeah, while while he's getting chirped.

Speaker 4: 1:34:58

Right, oh yeah, while he's getting hackled the middle of a speech about hope. And I need to know, is this guy heckling other people who didn't do well, or is it only the the level of hate that Tommy Cole is bringing that he's responding to? I do need to mention, as the token, millennial on this podcast and I am like the upper upper levels of the millennialism I am. They have the cut off and I'm like two days after that. But there is a big difference in how millennials see something you'll see selling out versus how Gen X does Like I know that you weren't talking about selling out expensive Orlando, but millennials don't have this city. Slickers like well, I have my job and I have my apartment in my beautiful life, but somehow my life is still empty and I don't know what to do with it. We do not fuck around with that shit. That is not.

Speaker 2: 1:35:50

We don't have that. That's a big distinction between the generations. Yeah, yes.

Speaker 4: 1:35:55

Like our fucking high school. Our biggest memories is goddamn Columbine, and then in college it was fucking 9 11. And then we got out of college and they were like we just broke the entire world economy and nobody can have a house anymore. So we don't fuck around with any of this, like I wonder if I'm going to be happy with the rest of my life like no man. You fucking, you get happy in any way you can. They fucking stay like that. It's hard out there.

Speaker 2: 1:36:22

There was, there was an article years and years ago where I first became aware of it. No, no, it was like. It was like a millennial writing it going I can't fucking wait to sell out, I will sell out if I get the chance.

Speaker 4: 1:36:35

I will sell out yesterday.

Speaker 2: 1:36:37

It's like when you say I have so much quit me, you know. Yes, it's that kind of vibe. Please, god, let me sell out. Let me have the opportunity to sell out interesting. If it ever comes my way, sign me up. I will be the first on the list to sell out.

Speaker 4: 1:36:53

Yeah, who needs a kidney? I can't fucking retire Like, what do you want from me? I will give you all of the shit. So, yes, that's always. That is a funny thing for me looking back at some of those movies now. Hey, well, listen.

Speaker 3: 1:37:06

No, really Seriously, that's an insight.

Speaker 4: 1:37:09

I think also, though, like knowing what Generation X went through, in terms of you guys basically watched your parents live the American dream, and then you were like well, wait, hold on, but things are not great still. Like every generation has its own disillusionment. It's just that you took the form of. We are not going to be satisfied with this sort of suburban and I that's not to knock suburbia, but like this, we are not going to just live the lives that people insist that we do and millennials will like we'll fucking do whatever we need to survive this shit we are. I'm going to make it through this year if it kills me is been the millennials song for as long as we have been around, so I like that difference between us.

Speaker 4: 1:37:52

I also like that Tommy Cole still cares enough that he hates those shitty students, and I understand that's not how you should be framing this. You shouldn't be like man, these fucking assholes. I fucking hate him, but at least he cares, at least he's looking him into the eye and saying you guys do shit. That pisses me off, because the opposite of hate love isn't hate. The opposite of love is apathy, and that means whatever passion he did have is showing up in still being proud of his school and the name and the namesake and wanting to do this and wanting to give a good speech, and then being pissed off when he realized that everybody else is skating through the same way he is.

Speaker 2: 1:38:33

I love that boss, yeah Good coach.

Speaker 3: 1:38:36

No, I yeah, I pretty much was just going to say I love that too. It's. It's funny that you frame the generationally, because some of what you're pointing to is hope right like this. There was part of me when I saw those men that said we don't have to live that way, we can live a better way. And what you're saying, what I hear you saying to me in a way, is I was never under the impression that we could live a better way like I just wanted to not be in a building that somebody crashed a plate into that's I'm.

Speaker 3: 1:39:14

I'm all set. If you could just please not crash a plane. I'm in into a building, or plane into a building. I'm in, I'm good. And I think like, yeah, I get it like Columbine, didn't. I was an adult. I was an adult for Columbine, until my experience of Columbine is necessarily different. Yeah, as horrifying as I might find it, I was not in. I didn't have to go to school.

Speaker 2: 1:39:37

The next day, even though you had that same jacket.

Speaker 4: 1:39:41

Yes, obviously that's definitely a chart.

Speaker 2: 1:39:44

What wasn't it like a long leather jacket coach, wasn't that?

Speaker 3: 1:39:47

yeah, yeah yeah, that's right. My, my, my, it was a leather like a duster was it like a duster it was. It was dust all the, it was all. It was like a old school cowboy calf it was. It was long with.

Speaker 4: 1:40:00

Dennis Reynolds want to take it from you, if possible.

Speaker 3: 1:40:04

Yeah. That kind of duster right, it's always sunny, they, they've got so sunny right yeah, I was like wait, I got the wrong name, but yeah yeah, yeah but yeah, no, I yeah, it was Long shaft ish, it was ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 1:40:18

If I can put, put this, this speech by Tommy Cole, in Ted lasso terms. They do a lot of clever things here in Ted lasso. When we first met Ted and he has first press conference, he couldn't even drink water. He was such an idiot and what they did was that lot, of, lot of audience shots, a lot of press shots. If you remember in Ted lasso, see how did the press react. Is this a fucking joke, right? So we have a similar like a mechanism here where we got a guy chirping at him but Sean Simmons and the production crew here they very cleverly use Orlando as sort of a tip off to how we're supposed to feel. So when no one knows how they're high, he, like Orlando, looks like he said pain, like, oh my god, this is, this is off to a brutal start right right he's like dying in the back right.

Speaker 2: 1:41:14

And then he says someone told me, speak from the heart, orlando with his little chest bump. And then you know, by the end Orlando has fully come around and is proud of him, which gives us the ability. If we were on the fence, I don't think we work is so well done, but if we happen to be on the fence as an audience, we can also be proud of him. What I muted us while we're listening to Tommy Cole, but you did not hear the three or four times that all of us were laughing silently as we watch this because like actual, you know actual shit on one. Because it is you're like, wow, this is you know you. Okay, this is what they're dealing with. That when he says they're snotty, pierced faces and and whether or not you're an educator, you go. I know that. I know exactly what those kids. I know that vibe. I know how pissed off they are. I know how they detest us for for this.

Speaker 2: 1:42:18

I remember my son coming to me when he was in high school. He's like you know, the food at the school is inedible and he would take pictures of it every day and show me. And it was like you know it was like like cardboard with with oil. If you could like, just heat up some cardboard and mix a little oil on it. Like whatever they were eating was was repellent. And you know the school that he was attending it didn't have their own kitchen so they had to ship it in and heat it up and, like it was, it was off. You know it was just off.

Speaker 2: 1:42:49

And he's like, but how did you let this happen? Like, how did you not stand up for it? And it's so funny to see that transition because he was one of those snotty it didn't appear spaces, but he was one of those snotty kids going. I don't understand how you let it get this way and with, in the United States at least, where we cannot seem to uncouple ourselves from the, the baby boomer generation, still the highest position in the land will be somebody very elderly. You go, wow, like we're still not in these roles where we can affect change on a on a national or global level. And and it you know the pervasiveness of the snotty kids is understandable, because what are, what are we doing to affect change? And what can Tommy Cole do inside with his purview at his school? Go ahead, coach.

Speaker 3: 1:43:47

No, I was just going to say I hadn't thought about these terms. But as you position that and thinking about what boss was saying about X and millennials, if you're Gen Z which my kids are you you might you've got also on top of everything else feel buried. Like when we were growing up we figured, alright, this group is dying because that's what people do after a certain number of years and this group is above us, but then they'll be in the old group and they'll retire and then we'll be in charge for a couple of decades. And then we are trying to get the fuck out of here. And what happened was they never got the fuck out of here. So then we got stuck at a level.

Speaker 3: 1:44:28

But that meant then the millennials are kind of a little bit stuck, which means Denzi is like in the sub basement, going let us up like and never mind alpha. So if anything, I could see the these later generations getting progressively more pissed because there's no. My contemporaries all thought if it plays out right, I might end up CEO. But I could see some of my Gen Z being like if it plays out right, I might get an office maybe, but we're working from home, kinda Like it's just, it's just. Yeah, no, no.

Speaker 2: 1:45:08

Like what do you aspire to? No, no, gen Z is like. If it all works out, we won't be fucking underwater. Yeah, with like high, super heated, like in habitats like that are you know?

Speaker 4: 1:45:22

But also I as the young person here I should speak for Gen Z, obviously I do and say that I feel like there are a lot of people my age-ish and younger my age, actually a lot of my friends are doing fairly well because we got out of college enough years before the global housing crash that they were. Most of them were solid in their careers. I hadn't finished college. My career is not quite what theirs is, but this is all beside the point. I'm not gonna own a home, is what I'm saying. I will never own a home, I'm just not going to. I'll have an apartment for the rest of my life and that's fine. And I think that there is a change for me and younger people where we're like, oh, the two car garage, the house on the suburbs, that shit is not for us. So I think there are probably Gen Z and younger kids that are already figuring out ways around that, that, not that they wouldn't feel buried, but that they wouldn't feel the obligation to make it to the same levels as previous generations, because it's completely out of our fucking grasp. You can't do it.

Speaker 4: 1:46:31

I still love the movie Fight Club. I think it's fucking phenomenal. But I remember Tyler Dyrton telling the group of men in the basement that they told us we would all be president one day. And we're now waking up to that fact and I always thought that there must have been a group of women and black people just behind them that were like wait, they told you you could be fucking president. That was an option for you. Ha ha ha. You're pissed off because they told you you could be the president and now you can't Because they didn't tell us that shit, because guess what, right, right.

Speaker 2: 1:47:05

Somebody did a great set on that. It was a chappelle Somebody did like the worst thing they ever happened to black men is that Obama got elected because now your wife can be like yo look at what Shels was doing over there.

Speaker 3: 1:47:15

Are you really not remembering who did this? Or are you being funny?

Speaker 4: 1:47:19

Was it you? Is it you?

Speaker 3: 1:47:21

Yeah, it's my bit. Yay, I was like is he busting my balls or what Shut up? That was you.

Speaker 4: 1:47:29

Yeah, I thought it was Shels.

Speaker 3: 1:47:32

Well, well, well Dileterious, Because I named the guy Dileterious because Dileterious is bad, and I was like it's just funny to me that it sounds like some black some stereotypically black man yeah, so well, well well Dileterious Michelle's man got a job. It was a whole. That's so funny. That's how you remember it.

Speaker 2: 1:47:51

Yes, I love it. See, I remember it, though it was such a great set, but that's, yeah, that's the. There were promises made and I remember thinking, yeah, I never got to any of them, like never had a single one of the. You know corner office, anything vocational, not even, like you know. It was just never on the table for me and my peers and my contemporaries, my friends that are in those you know partner tracks at law firms and things like that. They're still not. You know, they're in their 50s and they're still not where the Boomer maybe Boomer generation got in their early 30s and then held on and it's still holding on. We'll not give up those things. Listen, it's nothing against the Boomers, it's just numbers and it's a fact of what people need to contend with. So, yes, rightly, you make a point about Gen Z having to wait in the turnstile behind two generations that are both pissed off, but something tells me they're gonna find a way to leapfrog it or circumvent it anyway. They seem a lot more clever than, or a lot less likely to swallow the bullshit than, people anyway.

Speaker 2: 1:49:16

So, yeah, we had this great scene. Tommy Cole, really, you know it's this. It's funny that he outs the guy by the way, the other guy like he stole, sorry, you know and he said his take is that we have to work harder. And they do a shot of a woman in the audience who kind of smile and was like yeah, we do, and we got to do this before we asked them to. He's met with a lot of smiles from people who seem to agree with him. Right, buy him some fucking iPads and a single of Orlando.

Speaker 2: 1:50:01

Really proud, really like laughing, like yep, I can't believe he fucking pulled this off. But this is great. He says thank you and he walks off. It's just a great. It's an iconic Wayne scene and it says a tremendous amount about the show that ancillary characters can have quintessentially formative Wayne moments. You know, like you're like, okay, this is a show called Wayne, about Wayne, but like that's every bit as important to this show and what it's trying to say as anything Wayne ever does. It's really remarkable. So, boss, walk us through what happens here. Wayne and Dell come storming out of the dance music still playing and they're having a great time.

Speaker 4: 1:50:53

Yes, and you know they're talking back forth. She says I thought you said wearing that stuff is dumb. What's dumb about it? I guess I did want to go, for real is the thing that Dell said, which it. I really hope that the whole like being too cool for school thing is over and that if you want to do something, you should, and that if you want to be excited about something, you should. And I understand, like probably people who know me and person are like really you think that, but I am, I'm going out for that. I'm saying yes, it's good to be excited, it's fun to be excited, but they're sort of touching base after their fight earlier, if you want to call it that, or at least the disagreement where they're talking through why she wanted to come, why she wanted to be involved, why he didn't want to be.

Speaker 2: 1:51:41

Right.

Speaker 4: 1:51:42

And she specifically says like who even are we now? Cause we're not a couple, but we are doing this thing together and we're sort of a guy. I don't have a boyfriend, but I have a Wayne.

Speaker 2: 1:51:54

Yeah, and what are we going to do after we find that car? I?

Speaker 3: 1:51:58

loved that. I love that question because it's a level of awareness for the character in place that made sense to me, but also in terms of the storytelling we can get. So it's so easy to think of stories as contained and they just accept. You know, when they lived happily ever after is like a legitimate thing to say, but that's not how anything works, and so there was something cool about her going like before I decide how I'm going to feel about this moment or subsequent moments, I need a little bit of clarity, I don't know. I appreciated the realness of it and the maturity of it.

Speaker 2: 1:52:42

And his choice to come into the boat we always talk about. Whenever I say that term, it's because I went to this thing years ago about negotiation and it was like imagine two people standing in a row boat and the further you lean out, the further it forces the other person to lean out the other way to compensate for the balance of the boat. But if you lean in, they have to lean in. So that was an analogy that the person who of course, used and I think about it all the time and by leaning in and committing he made himself approachable with a bigger conversation, like it's not an accident that she hits him with this stuff right now, because it's like OK, we're here, we haven't really talked about this. Like what's our long game? Are we ever even going to go back to school? Are we dropouts? Now? That's like I say it a million times, we've all said it it shows called Wayne, but it could easily be called Dell.

Speaker 2: 1:53:43

She is just Sierra Bravo playing this role. She is so good, it is so good, it is so good. I love how she delivers these lines, I love how he hears them, I love their body language, I love this hesitancy, but she really wants to get them re-centered and in sync. It's all great, she says I guess. I don't know, I thought maybe I'd never really have a chance to do this, which is sad, and it harkens back to a lot of the stuff we're talking about, where people feel like maybe their future has been stolen from them by powers that they have nothing to do with. Go ahead, boss.

Speaker 4: 1:54:28

Well, I was only going to say this is also a good representation of how teenagers actually do think that we have this idea that because they're young and they don't have a lot of experience, they're never conscious of the fact that things are not going to be the same as they always are Sometimes, and that's just because of the human condition and everybody thinks that. But I think Dell probably did have plans before her mom died. Obviously she wanted to run for student president, she wanted to be involved in things, she wanted to do the blood drive Like she had goals. So I don't know if it's that she never thought she would have a chance to do this or if she thought that her future would be in Brockton and slightly different. So I like that they are acknowledging that she had thoughts about her future, even if they were weak in some ways, and that she knows that this is a temporary situation, but she's anticipating the end of it, because even stupid, pure hateful teenagers do understand that things will change eventually.

Speaker 2: 1:55:35

Yeah, that's awfully generous of you. Yeah, I mean a lot of people. Just they really, they assume remember the first time I fell in love, somebody called it puppy love and I remember going, oh so it's stronger than this. And then now, looking back, I'm like that was pretty goddamn strong, like it was not like childish or you know what I mean. Like now it feels like, oh, you unnecessarily demeaned a very, very powerful emotion I had. Yes, and I like that Boss is not choosing to do that.

Speaker 3: 1:56:09

I want to jump in there because I have a whole rant which I won't subject you to, but suffice it to say I Bristol is a very mild way to describe how I feel when people do that. First of all, everybody, if you love, you love how you love A three-year-old loving their mommy. It's not like, oh, you don't know what love is. They absolutely do love, know what love is. They love their mommy, right, so like. And the puppy love. They goes in that category.

Speaker 3: 1:56:42

For me In Moe better blues very specific film reference. But it was this moment where Bleak Gilliam, played by Denzel, is talking about a moment where he felt like pure love and he talks about his first kiss with this girl and I forget how old he was supposed to be, but it very much reminded me of the girl who, like the first time I really was like whoa, my heart. You know what I mean. Like whoa, like, oh my god Like, truly like disorienting, like. All I can think about when I'm not seeing you is when will I see you again, even if that is on the bus in an hour. Like I just want to like and if anything and he describes it this way in the movie and I remember being in the theater and reacting to this because I was like, yes, that was pure.

Speaker 3: 1:57:39

Like there was no. Who's going to pay what bill? There was no, oh you better not hurt me, there was no. Where is this leading? There was none of that, there was. The world is awesome whenever you are here and the world fucking sucks whenever you are not. I mean, it is so pure and, yeah, I hate I just that puppy love thing makes me absolutely nuts. I now occasionally get I wouldn't even call it. They're not asking for advice so much as just talking some relationship stuff out, and I think part of it is I don't bring that to the table, like with my own kids, and I'm like this is where you are right now, this is what you're dealing with right now. No, you're not dealing with you know how are we going to pay them more kids? That's not where you are in life and how's that? More like real love than anything else. Anyway, that drives me nuts.

Speaker 2: 1:58:46

You should try not thinking about these things and just do whatever your ancestors did. It's better that way, just keep the wheels of cruelty turned coach. So much easier.

Speaker 2: 1:58:58

Why put so much thought into something that's? All Right right right, yeah, no, I love what you say about that. You know, Della's, you know she's just wondering where. You know, I never thought I'd get a chance to do this and I love we talk about things boys can't say I'd like. Things boys can't say for 500, please. Alex Wayne says I got scared. Yeah, that's right up at the tippy top, right, can't be scared as a boy.

Speaker 2: 1:59:30

Right, how could you possibly? He says he got scared seeing at school with friends you know it was something that shook him. He looked happy, going to fancy houses, you know, and it's something that he felt like he could see that this was a better life for her. I just don't want to take you away from a life you might like, is what he says, which is listen. So he says a life you may like or maybe want, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 2:00:04

This was not on the fucking menu when he stormed into her house, said you wanted to go to Florida, and she grabbed a bikini. You know what I mean. Like, this emotional journey was not something he was prepared for. She had any idea what happened. You know she needed out and he was her ticket out of there. And you know we wisely, have seen her put the brakes on the quote unquote relationship part of it. Let's figure out, let's get to be friends first. Let's figure out how we feel. You know it's this really powerful sort of emotional journey for both of them, but it's based in, you know, being utterly untethered. For the very first time in either of their lives, they're making their own rules, and so let's establish what some guidelines are, because you know, I don't know, I don't even know if we're. Are we dropouts now? Are we dropouts now?

Speaker 3: 2:01:01

Yeah, I know that was what it hit me, that I was like you know Dell's got a point. This is chaos, like, and fear is to Dell. This is crazy.

Speaker 2: 2:01:10

Well, Coach, we know it's a show, but they don't.

Speaker 3: 2:01:13

Right, right, right, no, this is their lives. Their lives have taken this crazy, yeah, this crazy turn.

Speaker 2: 2:01:20

And it's important to point out that, with all the things we, the maligned white men about the you know poor decision or nervousness, or what Wayne Frames is being scared was, was the origin of it we talk about. You know what is the root of something? It was. The root of it was that he was holding her back. It was not, like you know, maybe I would be stopping you from having a life you might want or that would be better for you and at least okay, great, that's, that's someone we can live with. You know, like, if, if, if you go and you say, okay, what was the? You know, let's talk about intent. His intent wasn't to harm. His intent was, oh shit, I might be preventing her from having a better life. The fuck do I know? Like I'm the guy on a bike, like on some bizarro mission who just burned up my dad and house, like I have, I can talk about being untethered. This guy has nothing in the world and is he holding on to her too tightly and doing her a disservice?

Speaker 3: 2:02:30

So I had a quick question and, jack, and it's actually for you, boss, so if you had a different point, feel free to push this aside and make your point first. But it strikes me as much as I get what Wayne's saying and I can probably think of times in my life that I similarly felt that I'm looking at this situation and trying to sort out, you know, what should be, what should happen from here. Is is even that steeped in sexism, because in a way he's suggesting, even in his thinking. The suggestion is Dell doesn't have the agency to say I'm done with this, I'm actually going to use this bus ticket Somehow. It's my decision to make for her, which you know, yeah, so I'm curious, yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:03:22

Yes, and what I was going to say is yes, his motivation, the fact that he doesn't want to hold her back, is good In terms of him not thinking well, I don't care what she wants, I'm going to tell her what we're doing, like just to compare those two side by side. Yes, but this is the 98 degree song that I hate so much, where he talks about how the hardest thing I'll ever have to do is look you in the eyes and tell you I don't love you because he needs to send her away, as if she is Harry from Harry and the Henderson. It's like, oh, I need to old yell at this situation Because, number one, I can't work on myself to make myself good enough to deserve you, and also, you can't decide that you are going to accept me with my flaws. I need to make sure that I protect you from what a dirtbag I am.

Speaker 4: 2:04:17

I understand the motivation. It's not that he is wrong, but what is better is that what he did was say I'm going to show up at the dance, I'm going to dance with you, I'm going to be excited about it, I'm going to try to get up on your level, meet you, meet you where you are. And then also I'm going to acknowledge that I was scared about a relationship, so you're completely allowed to be concerned about is this the right thing? But then also, yes, acknowledge your agency and also work on yourself.

Speaker 3: 2:04:48

I just want to toss in that you made me think of a magical video where 98 degrees is singing to Harry, and that'll stay with you forever. So, thank you, that'll stay with you forever.

Speaker 4: 2:05:02

Man. I have 98 degrees, Just like bad hit after bad hit, and bad at that. I mean they did. It's not that the songs were bad, it's just somebody wrote a song called Una Noche for Ricky Martin and then he passed on it. So fucking Nicolet Shea was like let me at that, bitch, I'm going to try that and I'm like you guys cannot sing Spanish. That is not who you are as a group. This is not your forte, but I will rock out to it. It's a good fucking song.

Speaker 2: 2:05:38

So it's like, well, let's just go with it. Yeah, yeah, Del is listening to Wayne and she says it's hard for her to get this out. But she's like, basically I don't want to stay. But even if I did stay, she's like no matter what I do. That's adorable. Even for someone with a heart made of obsidian boss, that is adorable.

Speaker 4: 2:06:16

Yeah, no, it's cute, it's fucking cute, and also I like that line of thinking so much. Whatever it is, I want to. What I am picking is to do it with you, and so maybe it won't be perfect, but I am choosing you rather than choosing not you.

Speaker 2: 2:06:33

It's like the story of this podcast boss. She says I want to do it with you and she says you fucking idiot.

Speaker 4: 2:06:42

Are you calling me a fucking idiot? Hey, fuck you man. I'm doing this effort as a favor to you. Hey, fuck you man.

Speaker 2: 2:06:56

The dulcet tones that everyone gets from this podcast. I just love it. No, but listen, this is where I was going to say, this is where vulnerability I don't know how it is elsewhere, but I know it's informed by the region that both of these people are from, and so that's where you get the whatever at the end of it. The whatever is kids. These days, their version is putting an LOL at the end of anything that is risky. Oh, that was really funny, and so it's like just it's their safety mechanism. She channels a little bit of her dad and says you fucking idiot at the very end. You know it's your only emotional role model and so.

Speaker 2: 2:07:42

But he smiles because he understands the language, and so where we might say right, you know we might say oh geez, get a call, someone fucking like wow, you really subverted it by, you know, being verbally abusive afterwards, but in this way it is a term of endearment. And she grabs his chin and forces him to look at her, which I'm like, oh man, it might be my favorite part of this episode. That isn't the speech you know, I just really love. Like you know, he's just looking down. He can't make it's hard. That connection is tough. Go ahead, coach.

Speaker 3: 2:08:25

They both do it, though, up to this point in the scene, and one of the reasons I love this choice is I noticed it and I thought, oh, like that's sweet, like this is so vulnerable that they're kind of like looking past each other and looking at the ground, and they naturally were walking out together, but they were both not looking over at the other as they talk, and so I did think that it was a way of stepping up the vulnerability and sort of upgrading the relationship for her to say, no, we're not going to stare at the ground anymore, we're really going to look at each other. You fucking, you know, like I just I love that I'm going to point out to, and I don't know that this is why they did it, but I think it works out very well. We have a pretty intense story with a couple of teenagers who are, for the purposes of the story, a couple, even if we're playing with how we do that by having her, early on, say we're not going to be boyfriend and girlfriend, and then we're still figuring out what they are. In episode six, we really get around the weirdness of sex between these two, and I think it allows us to experience the other elements of the relationship.

Speaker 3: 2:09:40

In what I'm I don't want to vilify or demonize sex big fan, but that it uncomplicates what we're looking at otherwise. This conversation is different if they've had sex. This conversation is super different if she's like oh well, period is late. You know what I mean. Like you just take all of that out of this and it's two human beings connecting in a way that I think it wouldn't be as clean otherwise the connection I mean nothing.

Speaker 2: 2:10:12

You make a great point and coach. This is for lack of a better term. This is the do like me conversation that you have.

Speaker 2: 2:10:18

Yeah, right, yeah, which is very delayed considering we're six episodes in, but his vulnerability has sort of given her, you know, open that up.

Speaker 2: 2:10:31

So that's a possibility for her. And this moment of connection, where they look each other in the eyes is, it's atypical because they are so shielded and so armored emotionally they just plain don't let themselves get there. We know that there's an affection between them, we know that he is, you know, especially from him to her, we can, we tell right off the bat he's got a thing for her. We never, we don't always know whether she's got a thing for him Because, like we've mentioned before, she rightfully doesn't want to make the same mistakes that her mom made or other people made. They have a tiny beat where they kind of step in like they're going to actually kiss for the first time. She has kissed him on the cheek to this point. But, right, as they kind of step in and have a romantic moment, got to make sure that we remind everybody that the show creator, sean Simons, is from Boston, and so, god forbid, you have a tender moment without the specter of excruciating violence, and so let's pick it up right here, boss, and tell us what happens.

Speaker 4: 2:11:52

Oh, Della's looking past his shoulders a little bit because somebody is coming up behind him shouting surprise, it's Bobby Luchetti and Carl Luchetti beating him with a baseball bat. And then they proceed to beat him a little bit. Wayne does get a kick to Bobby's groin in at some point, but three on one, even two on one, because one of the twins is holding Dell back. None of this is fair.

Speaker 3: 2:12:21

Holding her with one arm while using the other arm slash hand to get all of this for the Graham.

Speaker 4: 2:12:29

That is an excellent call.

Speaker 2: 2:12:31

Yeah, right, exactly yeah, he is videotaping on his phone. Carl holds, he holds on to Dell on her sister with one arm and you got Teddy. You know he doesn't have the bat. Teddy is doing a lot of kicking. Bobby stands over Wayne. You fucking nuts. You come into my house. You fucking bust up my television, which that is. This is where Teddy jumps in a 32 inch fucking senior.

Speaker 2: 2:13:01

I'm glad they started that because that's the key insult that happened, that Wayne perpetrated was the zeemis. What a hell of a jumping off point. Not to mention Dell as the first transgression here. You kidnap my fucking daughter. She says stop and I chose to leave. Shut your fucking mouth, delilah.

Speaker 3: 2:13:25

Right, I don't want to get hung up there, but I thought that was a really important line. I don't even have all the description for it, but that she states out loud. I chose to leave. He's like that ain't the story we're going with tonight or ever. I've decided it went this way and therefore that's how it went.

Speaker 4: 2:13:53

Yes, wow, I'm not saying that this happens to women more than men. I will say that one of the wildest things about being a grown woman who has chosen not to have kids and not to get married and live by myself and I'm into all of those things is that sometimes you run across fundamentalist, conservative white Christians and I'm going to specifically say that they're white, because I've never had a black woman tell me this conservative white Christians say oh well, you just don't understand how unhappy you truly are. You can't really be happy without kids, or a husband.

Speaker 4: 2:14:23

Oh, for real, oh for sure. You're lying to yourself. You don't understand how unhappy you are. At which point you're like oh, come on.

Speaker 2: 2:14:32

I feel badly for you, boss, because you haven't lived until you have a black woman say that oh no, God you just don't know what you're missing. I don't want to be a parent of that type.

Speaker 4: 2:14:42

I know a particularly high caliber of black women, but the only people that have ever said that shit to me have been white people.

Speaker 3: 2:14:49

Put a shame. You don't know who that is, you just don't know, that's it.

Speaker 4: 2:14:54

I can't argue with that. If you don't believe me, I can't argue with you. I don't know what to tell you. All right, fine, I'm miserable. Are we done?

Speaker 3: 2:15:03

I'm just always amazed by people declaring to others what life is about. I've run into this recently and I'm sure it's me noticing when you're going to buy a green car, you see all the green cars, I feel like. Recently I've run into several situations where one person says to another whole fucking human being no, that isn't actually what you want for your life. You want and I'm like what? That is the craziest shit. I don't know when do you get the I almost said the balls but where do you get the nerve to say to another person the meaning of your life is that would be a good use of balls.

Speaker 2: 2:15:48

That's what we relate to. Yeah, exactly Like unmitigated audacity.

Speaker 3: 2:15:53

Yeah exactly, yeah, unbelievable. Anyway, sorry, I don't know why, I'm always amazed, I promise you, I think it's my way of being sensitive to the white person who's shocked by racist things that happened, because you tell me some of the shit that happens to women and I'm like get the fuck out of it. Like in no world, in no Thor, has anyone ever stopped and told you no, the mean, you have to do this. That is the meaning of your life. I don't give a shit what you think the meaning of your life is. I know I've never had anybody say it like like any shit, like that.

Speaker 2: 2:16:33

No, no, no no, I mean tell me, I look prettier when I smile, but does that count?

Speaker 3: 2:16:37

No, that's just true, that's just true. There you go.

Speaker 2: 2:16:40

No, yeah, no, no, no, yeah. We get relatives who will tell us oh, you should really do this, you should, you know, like they tell you to host or something whatever. Well, yeah, but not like, like I don't know.

Speaker 3: 2:16:52

But not. I met you 15 minutes ago. You should go have kids, because I really enjoy it, like anywhere, I get it. Yeah, well, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:17:06

One of the fun parts of this podcast is is seeing how rich and full our lives, our lives, are, coach and juxtaposing that against bosses, misery, happiness, drug use.

Speaker 4: 2:17:24

I mean, I did tell you about the, the chili, lime, cashew, vanilla ice cream, like I don't know what more you want me to tell you.

Speaker 2: 2:17:32

It's not that you, it's not that you came up with that, it's that you had the space to come up with the other piece of mine where. I didn't have other humans hanging off you.

Speaker 3: 2:17:43

Oh yeah, or that you would create it and someone else didn't look over your shoulder and decided we're going to share it.

Speaker 4: 2:17:50

That was my second tiny little cup of ice cream of the evening. The first one was coconut wafers on top of vanilla ice cream.

Speaker 2: 2:17:59

Listen in fairness, I, yeah, I don't like anyone telling their life. I know for my life, I can't imagine it without a family or without a you know children, something I've always wanted as long as I can remember how to be dead. So I get the instinct behind wanting that, but I also get the instinct around not wanting that and I just want everyone to, you know, live their best life and some of your goddamn business or someone has kids or not, or has a same sex partner or not, or has no partner or not, or has three cats instead of 12. It doesn't, it just mind your own business people. It just shouldn't be something that we, you know, lord over anybody else. So anyway, speaking of of lording over, bobby Lachetti is standing over a wait, wait, wait. He's on the concrete. He's on the tarmac folks and on his back in a defensive posture. You got these three pelucas standing up. Wait, peluca is not a bad word, is it? I should really lift that up.

Speaker 2: 2:19:02

I have no idea Sounds like it's one of those words that probably would be bad words.

Speaker 3: 2:19:07

Yeah, I think dumb peluca.

Speaker 2: 2:19:09

I don't know where the word. I don't know where this from, but he's got these big oafs over him right and Bobby's got a bat and they're in. At least. Carl and Bobby are in business mode, they're in fight mode. And just looking at this image, how do you know they're in fight mode? Coach, I'll save you the trouble of having to unmute. They got their hats turned backwards. They don't have their, their, their ball cap. All three are wearing ball caps.

Speaker 3: 2:19:40

That's right.

Speaker 2: 2:19:42

Yeah, they are. They are ready for a fight because they spun spun their cap backwards.

Speaker 3: 2:19:48

Now somebody noticed this.

Speaker 2: 2:19:50

I was looking at the etymology of peluca, by the way, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, let me know if we should, if we should 86 it.

Speaker 4: 2:19:58

According to Merriam-Webster's almost called it urban dictionary, but the not official dictionary, just Merriam-Webster's. The origin is unknown, although it first appeared in print in 1920 in a comic strip about a boxer named Joe Peluca. Okay, which, so it seems fine. I mean, you seem old as fuck, but it seems fine.

Speaker 1: 2:20:22

Let me tell you a few things about the old days, boss.

Speaker 4: 2:20:28

Also Sam Rockwell's partner's name is Leslie Bipp.

Speaker 2: 2:20:30

That is who I was referring to. That's fine, great she is. She is a fan. She's another person who every time you see Leslie Bipp and something, you go God damn, she's good. Good, I don't like that. There's that much talent. One relationship is kind of selfish, you ask me. You would hope that they would get less talent than partners, just to increase the average worldwide.

Speaker 4: 2:20:52

But that's only on podcasts.

Speaker 2: 2:20:54

A couple of jerks. Okay, so they're beating up Wayne. Somebody yells they're beating up Wayne. They'll says fuck you. Wayne fights back right, kick to the groin, kick to the face of Bobby, and now Teddy's into him, kicks him, picks him up. They're taking turns. They'll say daddy, and Bobby says hold him, hold him. And it is have either of you. No, I'm guessing boss has never been in a fist fight, right, a full out fist fight.

Speaker 3: 2:21:25

No, but you never had a view, while someone else hits you.

Speaker 3: 2:21:28

No, that I've never had, like not like this. And it is the moment in any fight I mean, it's a classic sort of the bad guys are winning thing. That happens in TV and film, and anytime it happens, my hate multiplies, because I just feel like, well, if you want to fight, fight Like hold them, like whoa, like square, you know, if you so, anyway, that's. I don't know that. That's like my most evolved view of the world, but I just feel like there's something about hold you, hold them while I hit them, and then we're going to both walk away as if we did something.

Speaker 2: 2:22:04

That we do have this built in sort of fight choreography, like morality, built into our consciousness where we kind of know this is. This is why it might. Here's my thesis. This is why, a few years back I forget, I'm trying to place it but there was this fight where it looked like a couple of white people were picking on some black people and then, out of nowhere, like six other black people showed up and oh yeah, I know that's the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he knows that was Montgomery Alabama.

Speaker 4: 2:22:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that just happened.

Speaker 2: 2:22:35

Yeah, you say that just happened.

Speaker 3: 2:22:37

Yeah, look a year ago.

Speaker 2: 2:22:38

I want to say Right but it was a little while we talked about it on the podcast. But it was like, right away you had that, that icky sense like this is not right, like right and and. But the people that were ahead who knew it wasn't right continued or something right.

Speaker 3: 2:22:55

So then when it went, the other way, it was like oh well, Okay, guess what Fuckers you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 2:23:01

Like it was that kind of grossness. And so when you watch this, this scene where, where you know, hold them, hold them. He's got his Wayne's, got his arms behind his back, he's in in what they call a double arm bar and wrestling, that's when your elbows are back and the other person has their arms tucked in, holding the arms back, shoulders back, exposing the midsection for pummeling, and Bobby, bobby, he starts hammering him, he, he, he lays into him. And it's funny because, if you know, I'm not a, I am not a huge fan of boxing. I don't like, I don't like seeing people punch each other.

Speaker 2: 2:23:47

My dad was a boxer. He tried to show me some boxing stuff, which is a boxer, and the thing I'll say I don't want to say like a wholesale thing about oh, I don't like boxing, I like if I'm boxing or I'm training to box, because you, anyone who doesn't know boxing, has no idea how hard it is to throw three punches and how hard it is to hold your guard up and what it does to your back and your shoulders. Right it is, you just go. Oh my God, if you don't know, you don't know. And so, from an athletic perspective, it is really remarkable, and it's like a sport that requires way more conditioning than you think and way more practice, and and it's really remarkable it's just a shame, from my eyes, that somebody has to get hit.

Speaker 2: 2:24:32

Now, the thing that they say, though, in boxing, is we watch it as a as a layman, and you watch and you go, oh God, look at, he's hitting him in the head, hitting him in the head, and we go, jesus Christ, oh, that poor guy. But most boxers will tell you, or people who know the sport, it's like it's the body blows where you, where you really, where you, where you start cracking ribs or you start, you know, making breathing difficult, or someone can't twist and pivot and move and coach correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. No, no, you're right. So when Bobby has like unguarded shots at Wayne's ribs, I mean, and then what happens is is Teddy lets him go, and Wayne's got his guard up, but but he's already it's like it's when Maximus has to fight at the end of gladiator but they stop him in the kidney and they go okay, go have a fair fight.

Speaker 2: 2:25:27

Yeah, that's a. It's not ideal. And then it's funny because the Bobby Bobby just not almost knocks him out a straight, he just a straight shot to the face, knocks him down on the ground. It's the type of thing. Again, we don't want to glamorize this at all. It's hyperviolent. It for our Ted Lasso fans, for the people that have a hard time with this. I get it. It's hard to watch and so you know it's funny because we have a lot of people who will listen to the podcast but just aren't going to watch Wayne, and so they'd rather have us describe it and enough to experience it themselves. And I really understand it is.

Speaker 2: 2:26:12

It is tough to watch. I don't like, like I said, I can't watch UFC. I can't watch. I just don't like seeing people get hit. Something about it really, really bugs me. Bobby, we knocked Wayne to the ground. It's the point where there's like a you know, like blood mark on the ground. You know there's like blood on the ground. This is, this is some damage happening. Bobby says you take my fucking nose, motherfucker, you pretty boy. He says go get those goddamn bolt cutters. We're taking the nose with us.

Speaker 4: 2:26:45

I need people to start understanding that pretty boy means a specific thing and it doesn't apply to everybody. Like Wayne is extremely attractive, he is not a pretty boy. That's not what that is. I know because I am attracted to him and I'm not attracted to pretty boys. He's just good looking.

Speaker 2: 2:27:05

Okay, but in the, in the binary world where Bobby Lachetti comes from, like a pretty boy is an insult. That means like almost, almost, sort of. You know it'd be like I don't know.

Speaker 4: 2:27:22

No, I know what he's going for. But it would be the same way if somebody was like I don't know Like if they were like hey, emily, you never speak up Like I. Maybe maybe you're trying to call me a coward, maybe that's the eventual insult that you're getting to, but it's factually inaccurate. It doesn't land as well. If you insult somebody with something that's not true, it's got to be a little bit true and something somebody hates about themselves. And what Wayne hates about himself is not that he's a pretty boy.

Speaker 2: 2:27:50

Yeah, no, no, that's true, right, yeah. Yeah, bobby's insults are not elegant. So they're saying we hear someone yell get the fuck off, wayne. And people start pouring out of the dance, right? And it's funny how quickly Bobby and Teddy and Carl pivot to understanding that this is a bigger fight. It's weird. Like, like you're not taking much right. Here we go.

Speaker 2: 2:28:21

Yeah, bobby turns around, spits some blood out and says, all right, look, bring it on Like let's go. And then everybody charges. He takes out the first couple of people, the students, and then it's just a numbers game at a certain point, because you got what? 50 people attacking three.

Speaker 3: 2:28:43

Coming running out, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:28:45

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:28:47

But there's something that you know. We have the show going on and we know Bobby now and all the things, and this is an insane scene. But there's something about Bobby's willingness to beat the shit out of kids that makes him particularly. Finally respectable it makes him so awesome.

Speaker 2: 2:29:12

That's why they set up the starting kids thing. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:29:18

But yeah, like you know, like the fact that we've seen him already rough Wayne up, we've seen him, you know grab, you know Dell's hair, we know how he treats his own son, to the point where they don't want to wake him for fear that he's going to beat the crap out of them on their birthday. And then that he's so easily like, as you pointed out, pivots to I'm going to slug it out with a dance full of high school kids. And it doesn't seem to be any part of him that views it like oh my God, how'd I get here? Or wait a minute, this is crazy. How is this my life? No, none of that. Just go get me the bolt cutters. And I'm sure, after this is done, he had a similar reaction. Are you just he's?

Speaker 2: 2:30:05

like a crazy, is like a text like old school. Well, the original definition of barbarian was in the original ancient Greek, with some of them is not great, but then it became like just somebody who's like absolutely uncivilized in every way and he feels like that. He feels uncivilized in every way the fact that there's not even a glimmer of recognition that he's about to hit 15 and 16 year olds. Right, it's, it's psychotic.

Speaker 3: 2:30:37

It's absolutely psychotic. Like you are but and I don't mean a grown man is in your 25 and he's 18. Like you have children. You are with two of your children who are older than these children and they are also in on. I mean it's just horrible, Horrible, horrible, horrible behavior.

Speaker 2: 2:30:58

Well, so the they lose, the the Chinese lose, rightfully they're. They're good. Things do happen in the world. At one point, one of the high school students, who we don't know, picks up a bat and starts whacking Bobby with a bat, which I'm like Jesus, what comes around goes around. Dell is able to escort Wayne away. He is really messed up, like we've seen Wayne messed up.

Speaker 2: 2:31:25

Yeah but he looks like it was funny because not fun no, not ha ha funny. But it was concerning because I thought oh God, can he even drive the bike? Like liquid? His condition Like is he? Is he too dizzy? Is he too? He's got to be concussed. You know, you just worry about that. But they hop on the bike and they're gone. And then, as Bobby's getting pounded, we see Trish and Jenny come up and they scream that's what you get for fucking with.

Speaker 3: 2:32:02

And we smashed to the big way, how do they, how they get me on so many of these, like I always kind of laugh like you're right, you're right, it worked, it fit Like it was perfect. It was a perfect end to the episode, or you know, to that. Then we have the tag yeah it's.

Speaker 4: 2:32:21

It's the opposite of the big episode title on. It's always honey. They always figure out a way to read it in. Well, my favorite is Frank saying oh, come on, what's the worst that could happen? And then, immediately to Frank, set Sweet D on fire. We have to fucking hard.

Speaker 2: 2:32:39

Yeah, yeah, no no, no, it is magical. How good. Because you go, they can't one up it and then it goes the gang, gets racist and you're like oh God, you know.

Speaker 4: 2:32:49

I mean like, yeah, you just go.

Speaker 2: 2:32:51

I can't under these, these fucking people. You know, you're just like it is, there's no bottom.

Speaker 4: 2:32:58

The only. Thing.

Speaker 4: 2:32:59

I'm going to say about that scene. Yes, the fight was like. I don't like real violence, I love to shit out of choreographed violence. The lobby scene of the Matrix is fucking incredible. Still Also, while I'm rambling a little bit, since we've already broken the copyright, is there any chance we could play just a snippet of the beautiful song that is playing while the gym full of children comes out to beat up Bobby Luchetti? Because it's an inspired choice. It's one that I feel we need to reference more often. I'm not sure why it went away, but we need it back and if we've got it.

Speaker 2: 2:33:41

You know what? We're a couple of rebels, or a bunch of rebels here.

Speaker 4: 2:33:44

We're doing it.

Speaker 2: 2:33:45

Yeah, let's do it. Why not, like, we'll take it down if they want us to, and let's play a little clip Fuck it, fuck it, fuck it, stop, come here.

Speaker 1: 2:33:58

Stop, daddy, nice shot, take my fucking nose, motherfucker, are you pretty boy Go get that.

Speaker 2: 2:34:03

Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, Come on, come on, come on come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. Unfortunately, perfect as you say son.

Speaker 1: 2:34:17

Come on, come on. How about yourself? You see a science. Wow, daddy. How about noticeable directors? What were you doing? No, no, so I just wanted a littleThey we got men, give me what I have.

Speaker 5: 2:34:42

Give me the money and now I wonder if I could fall into the sea.

Speaker 4: 2:34:53

See, you think times would pass me by, cause you know I'd walk a thousand miles flagging us.

Speaker 5: 2:35:04

Look at all these fucking scum bads. That's what you got for fucking with me.

Speaker 3: 2:35:09

Exactly, truly, truly, and I'll say, by the way, that you did me a service. I know we got to wrap up, but you did me a service Because I just hadn't ever given that song a ton of thought. And after we had a conversation about it, when we all watched and I went off to like read the lyrics and I was like there's a lot more to this song than I ever thought about. Yeah, so thank you for that. Who is that? Who?

Speaker 2: 2:35:35

is that that's Vanessa Carlson's every say. Yes, Vanessa Carlson, I'm going to put a. I have one of my favorite dance numbers.

Speaker 2: 2:35:43

I showed Boston and Coach by a dance crew called Poriotics and I'm going to put that on the community site. We have a little button after this, so usually they go oh, next on Wayne. Once you get that big Wayne splash, you usually get you know, next time on Wayne. This time we get this little button at the end, that's just disappear. I mean, that's everybody's favorite. So the ikiy are the two of us and we get nominated. Okay, so what, we're going with this. So what, these two are the two that are gonna be Okay, no matter what they fill out. I'll never feel like a super real brother. Meanwhile, jay is next to him just scrolling on his phone, exhausted by hanging out with Gellar, and he's like you know I'm probably tired and hungry trying to figure out where they would go to stop and eat, and Jay, his face just goes, you know, wide open mouth.

Speaker 2: 2:36:55

And what does he see here?

Speaker 4: 2:36:58

Oh, it's the fucking twins Instagram feed. He's looking at the fight that Wayne is in the middle of, along with the Lunatic who sprayed somebody down with gasoline.

Speaker 2: 2:37:11

Yeah. And so he says, yeah, I found the, the, the feed of these guys, and he sees the real time stuff. Good God, what are those men doing? You know, gellar is like, he's like oh my God, is that Wayne? Jay says yeah, and yeah, we get this, we get this. Beat Christ on crutches. He says, shit, maybe you were right, maybe a little Robin Hood does need our help. Jay says, and so you know, you get this little button where, wisely, they redirect us. And you know, this is how you get Gellar and Jay back on track and be able to follow the set. And that is the end of Wayne, episode six. Who even are we now? Okay, and that's, that's where we're going to finish today. Coach, where do people find you if they want to find you?

Speaker 3: 2:38:12

Come through the community site. We have so much fun. I'm going to take my moment here to speak to that. There's a conversation on divorce and other big time topics that I'm going to play catch up on today and, other than that, a lot of people having fun and interesting conversations, so you can't beat it.

Speaker 2: 2:38:28

All you have to do to join the community is go to the description in the podcast and you can see where to support us, and as soon as you do that, you get an invite and you can join and talk. Boss, what about you?

Speaker 4: 2:38:42

I am mostly on threads these days. That is, emily dot chambers, dot 31, also on blue sky, though, which is dumbly chambers, all in words. You could get all that info through my Twitter page, which should be in the notes Also. I swear to God writing something for the antagonist soon. There's still stuff up there right now. It's hilarious. That is antagonist blogcom and also the community site. I promise I'm going to be there now more. Also, it's spring in Chicago, so everything is alive, including my desire to stay inside and look at a computer screen.

Speaker 2: 2:39:16

Yeah, there's finally some good weather in the middle of the country and in the east. Not for long, I think will last that long it never does. But yeah, thank you, boss, and that'll do it for us today. We'll be back next time with Wayne, season one, episode seven. It's chapter seven. It'll last forever.

Speaker 2: 2:39:42

Thank you for listening to us today. Thanks for joining us. Thanks, as always, for all the kind words and all the great reviews. We really appreciate you joining us for this time and we know people listen at home and listen in the car and sometimes there's people who are traveling on the road a lot. Sometimes it's just having us in the background at work. We got a funny message from one of our listeners who said I love you guys, but it's frustrating because I'm the only one that doesn't get to talk when we're all talking Feels like being with friends and she doesn't get to chime in. We really get that. Please consider joining us in the community site In the meantime. Thanks, thanks again. Thanks for jumping on to Wayne with us, especially if you came in with Ted Lasso and support your local libraries in the written word.

Speaker 3: 2:40:34

And until next time we are rich and we are rich men To we should on a tablet, that's it.

Speaker 2: 2:40:44

We got to work harder.

Speaker 3: 2:40:46

We just got to work harder.

Speaker 2: 2:40:47

All right, thanks, everybody concededed.