Inverting the Pyramid of Success (S2:Ep12:Part1)

The Tedcast is a deep dive podcast exploring the masterpiece that is Ted Lasso on Apple TV+.

Sponsored by Pajiba and The Antagonist, join Boss Emily Chambers and Coaches Bishop and Castleton as they ruminate on all things AFC Richmond.

Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop
Coach Castleton

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the Lasso Way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 2: 0:40

Okay, welcome Beautiful people. What did you say, coach, go on no, no, no'd you say coach, go on, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Listen, I want to hear from you. This is important. If you had an instinct to shout it out, I'd love it.

Speaker 3: 0:55

I think we skipped the open.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Yeah, yeah, no, no, coach, I just wanted to start with the music, something we never do, coach. I just wanted to start with the music, something we never do. We're now entering our final episode of Ted Lasso. We've done all of season one, all of season three and 11 out of 12 of season two, coach, and right before we recorded, I said to the team here I said I'm going to start with the music, something I never do. And this is what happens with ADHD. I say the thing that I think everybody understands, and Coach hears the thing that he thinks everybody understands. And now we're on air and nobody understands anything. Coach, all right, I am your host, coach castleton. Uh, with me, as always, is the indefatigable coach bishop I'm looking to set a record and our boss only

Speaker 4: 1:56

episodes will have god, jesus, I was hoping maybe you were announcing your musical career, but no, you mean you want to talk about this episode for the next 13 straight weeks.

Speaker 3: 2:07

Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah. How many episodes of Ted Lasso are there?

Speaker 4: 2:13

Altogether 34.

Speaker 3: 2:14

The only thing we can do to honor its greatness is to have that many episodes discussing episode 12 of season two.

Speaker 4: 2:23

You want to do 34 episodes of this episode. Eh give or take, oh man.

Speaker 2: 2:31

I'm going to need to buy more edibles. This is one of the. I mean, listen, it was not surprising to me. It's a little surprising, but on Apple TV today we are just about 11 months or so since Ted Lasso finished. Approaching a year was the end of a little bit less than that, so it was the end of May, we're at the beginning of April and Ted Lasso is still the number two product on Apple TV+. You could say, oh, that's an indication of the weaker products in apple tv plus, but that's not true. They don't think now they have a lot of great stuff. So, um, it is a show that has legs. It is a show that has captured um audiences, and one of the things I really love uh, that's happened. Um, and we've seen this with our buttercups too is people finding the show late.

Speaker 2: 3:25

a lot of people who were, uh, boss like, and like to be contrarians, like I'm not watching that fucking show, and you know like oh, everyone's into it, everyone can eat my shorts. You're not. You're not a general contrarian, but no, no, I know you'll watch everything, but I don't. You sometimes enjoy going against the grain if someone's like hey hey you shouldn't smoke heroin. You'd be like, well, fucking, watch me Like. I just think like.

Speaker 4: 3:48

So that is actually a discussion that my older sister and I have a lot because she thinks I agree with her to the extent that I generally do not like what is popular. By and large, if it is a popular thing, I am not a fan.

Speaker 2: 4:03

Right.

Speaker 4: 4:03

I argue that I don't intend to be a contrarian. I just find things that I like, and what I like are weirdo different shows or different movies, and that those happen to not be that popular. So if somebody were like, don't smoke heroin, I'd be like no, of course I'm not going to you inject it. That that's dumb Number one. But also, I wouldn't do that in order to rebel, like it's not like I'm going to say, like I just like what you like.

Speaker 4: 4:30

Right, I do like some of the adventure movies. I wouldn't be like fuck the adventure movies. Everybody likes them. They're gross Like no man fucking uh. Infinity war and game, whichever was the second to the last one, that was a quality movie and I will stand by that.

Speaker 2: 4:47

Um, uh, I, I, I will say I want to direct people to, sorry when you're saying that I started to think about the Marvel movies and there was a recent post on on the antagonist blog antagonist blogcom um, where, um, uh, just this, just this great piece on Roadhouse by Dustin Waters and he was referencing this one super interesting essay where it was talking about this ties back to RS Benedict's essay. I don't know who RS Benedict is. Do you know who that is? Boss coach? Anybody is. Rs benedict essay everyone is beautiful and no one is horny.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Uh, which examined the sexless hotness of the marvel cinematic universe. And uh, as benedict put it, modern action and superhero films fetishize the body even as they desexualize it. And what dustin is talking about here is in the original roadhouse. There is this little scene, um, where um dalton, played by patrick swayze, is a woke uh, woken up by a friendly waitress, carrie ann, who's brought him breakfast, and he gets up out of bed. He's groggy, it's his first day in this little, whatever podunk town and, um, we get a shot of his bare ass and we see her get flushed and and it's like a female gaze kind of thing, you know it's. It's like this cool moment um, especially for a 1989 film.

Speaker 3: 6:21

I think they uh generally like to be called lesbians.

Speaker 4: 6:23

God damn it. God damn it, son of a fucking bitch. God damn it. I was just about to say that same thing yeah. I was unmuting to make that terrible joke.

Speaker 2: 6:37

Yes, I'm so happy you guys are in sync. And with the new one, the Jake Gyllenhaal Remake, dustin points out Wisely there's just no, even though he's shirtless and he's got this Chiseled physique, there's nothing, there's no sex, there's just a tiny little peck. And it's just sort of Really interesting, especially In that you know, you know that Gen Z, you know, is less Sort of. They date less, they are slower to have sexual intimacy, things like that. So the whole thing is interesting. Sort of film universe of their life was this Marvel cinematic universe and it was desexualized. You're like, oh, yeah, yeah, they don't naturally just put it in, whereas some of us who grew up in the 80s and 90s, you have, or in the 60s and 70s, some of the older folks listening to the show. I mean, sex is everywhere. It was a fundamental part of our existence, even at a young age, so interesting.

Speaker 3: 7:54

You know it's interesting though and temporally this doesn't hold up. But when you said desexualize, it felt a lot to me like Ted referencing the British office pre-make, because maybe what it is, at least perspective would allow us to at least consider this is our shit was highly sexualized. I haven't watched it yet because I have to be very mindful. I've really embraced that. I'm actually an empath, so all that shitty energy people put out into the world just soaks right into my every cell. Yes, or wherever actors who were at most generous treated inappropriately and at worst were sexually abused. And maybe I'm not having such a problem with the fact that we don't have to have everything be overtly sexual or even have sexual undertones, like I don't. I'm sure those guys thought they're being funny at some points when they had their little toe jokes in kid shows. But you know what? Maybe we don't need that, maybe it's best we don't have that, maybe we should like a toe oh yeah, like this guy apparently has a toe fetish.

Speaker 3: 9:23

and then there are all these scenes they show now that are in the kids' show, that give in that context.

Speaker 2: 9:28

Oh it's pretty fucking creepy. Yeah, that's super gross.

Speaker 3: 9:31

Oh yeah, no, no, no, it's bad man and it shows. I don't know if you watch some of these with your kids, but there's a section of these shows that I know quite well because I watched them with Maya and Alex. Yeah, of these shows that I know quite well because I watched them with maya and alex. So I'm extra pissed because I'm just like, look man, I just need a break to go take a shower. I didn't need you trying to like subliminally, fuck my kids up. What is what's going on here? So, anyway, I don't think it's so bad. The human body can be beautiful and uh, heroic and and I don't have to want to fuck everything that can all exist.

Speaker 4: 10:09

Yeah, I think it's. I find the whole like is Gen Z too sexless? Argument to be not interesting. What's interesting in a bad way?

Speaker 1: 10:21

Whatever that word is that.

Speaker 4: 10:22

I'm looking for right now interesting in a bad way, whatever that word is that I'm looking for right now.

Speaker 4: 10:27

Like I think that there has been so much sexual repression in the country since its founding, basically, that having a sex positive outlook is good, but not when that sex positive outlook is a very specific form of sexuality that excludes other kinds and is mostly geared towards straight white men.

Speaker 4: 10:48

Like people talk about how Hugh Hefner was a revolutionary in the sexual freedom, I'm like, yeah, if you happen to like big boobed, skinny, white, blonde women, if you like that, absolutely he told you to go ahead and get what you want, but if you want anything besides that, it's still looked at as being unacceptable. So I don't, number one, fucking Gen Z, I don't care who you're banging you do you like I don't or not, whatever, it's fine. Uh, I think that prescribing an acceptable level of sexuality for anybody else is always wrong because it doesn't have anything to do with you unless you're having sex with them, and that shying away from something that was abused and misused and exploited in so many different ways for so long that if what they've decided is we're going to give it a break and we're going to figure out what we really like and actually do that. Great, good, good idea.

Speaker 2: 11:48

Absolutely do that no, no, I agree. But well said, very, very well said. Um, also, I I actually think it's part of a bigger thing. I don't think it's a standalone issue with gen z. Um, there's this weird thing that it's funny.

Speaker 2: 12:02

My son was telling me that, uh, he's in a philosophy course in college and there's 26 kids in the class, 26 students. And the professor says all right, well, you guys have to do these little workshop situations where you're going to break into groups of four or five or six or whatever. So I've made four breakout rooms it's a Zoom class and a virtual class and she says all right, so I'm going to leave the thing. I've made four breakout rooms. You can label them and then jump into whatever topic suits you best. And she leaves and then nobody does anything. They sit there and they don't get into breakout rooms.

Speaker 2: 12:43

And there's this one kid who so my son goes into a breakout room by himself, just sits in the breakout room and he notices nobody's coming in, right. So he's like I go back out of the breakout room and he's like I can feel the tension, because the other kids are like, why'd you go? But they're not gonna say anything, no one's talking, it's silent. And so finally, one kid chirps up. He's right, well, why don't we set up some categories? Okay, like, I'll just put them in the chat, is that cool with everybody? Nobody says anything. So he puts them in the chat and I guess he's like the one kid that isn't afraid to talk in the class and because of that he gets a lot of resentment from the other kids. This isn't my son, this is just like another kid.

Speaker 2: 13:24

So, like this dude puts some categories and then he's like all right, so, uh, do you want to talk in breakout rooms or should we? He's like I'll tell you what. I'll make a discus, not discus. I'll make a um. I'll make a uh. Uh, what do you call the server? Um? Oh god, I'm such an old fuck. What? What's the uh? Is that discord?

Speaker 4: 13:45

discord server.

Speaker 2: 13:46

Sorry, yes, I couldn't think of the word. Yes, I'll make a discord server. Okay, here's the link for the discord server.

Speaker 3: 13:50

Maybe it's just like super easy computer when the kid, the kids, type on a computer.

Speaker 2: 13:56

Yeah, no no, that's what it sounds like, so they make a discord server and then the kids don't go to the discord server.

Speaker 2: 14:01

So you, so so, and my son is sitting there watching this. He's like, if we, if we it, so he, you know, votes on a category with the kid. He's like, now that I've joined this other kid who's taking initiative, um, I'm like. He's like you feel ostracized by the kids that are just sitting silently and the presser comes back in it like what did you guys decide? Nothing's happened. And I'm like, oh my God, I would, if I was that professor, I would lose my mind. You know what I mean. And they're just like.

Speaker 2: 14:34

There's this again. You can't have rational realizations, but there is something about the generation where they are terrified of being, being out of step, or you know putting themselves, you know on the line, or you know, I just see it in many ways. So, coach, maybe you have a different um, different analysis, um, but I think that's what no part of the sexuality is and part of the. You know, it's just like, really, social media is such a strong presence in their life. They're so right quick to be like somebody could, could, snap a shot of that and share it right away. And then you know people are judging you. So I don't know. The whole thing is daunting yeah, you know it's interesting.

Speaker 3: 15:14

I that last piece there, especially just sort of their relationship to putting anything on a screen or if you join a group or you know, and I can think of it in a number of ways. I mean, you had, in the aftermath of Hamas's unfathomable attack on Israel, you had people who like lost job offers because they said, hey, israel's fucked up to set up these circumstances. Now, whether that was the right time to make that particular point or to make it the way they made it, I think there is a lot more sensitivity and rightly so in that generation around, not necessarily recording all the thoughts and all the things. Recording all the thoughts and all the things. Somebody pointed out. There's a documentary out right now about Freak Nick, which I've never been so happy that I was too broke to do something, because I know who I was at that time and I guarantee you I would be in the trailer. I guarantee you I would be in the trailer, and so I'm ecstatic that I was just too fucking broke to even consider going down to Freaknik.

Speaker 2: 16:27

Can you explain for those of us that don't know what you're talking about? What is Freaknik?

Speaker 3: 16:30

I'm sorry, freaknik was essentially Black Spring Break. I mean I guess that's as simple as I can make it. And it was in Atlanta and it was just debaucherous, like I remember just hearing like the craziest goddamn stories and people were just down there doing all the spring breaky thing, like what, but with a soundtrack of rap music. Um, I mean it was definitely a meat market, okay, I mean. So people were drunk, slash, I'm sure, a high. Um, it was a meat market for sure. Like, literally, like you know people, you know blasting music, so like women would like do the time, that time's equivalent of twerking in the street. I mean, it was apparently insane, but just it was all it was. Uh, all it was like every college trope of like wild partying but then overlaid with blackness.

Speaker 2: 17:30

In Atlanta. Yes, atlanta proper, it was a thing.

Speaker 3: 17:35

Like the city of Atlanta, I believe so. I believe so. There's a park in Atlanta, in atlanta, and, if I recollect correctly, um, when I was there to shoot somebody as we drove by was like, oh yeah, germ freak nick. This place was, you know, just overrun with everybody, blah, blah, blah, so. So there's a documentary out now about it, which I haven't watched yet.

Speaker 3: 17:58

But one of the things that was pointed out about this generation because maybe the comment was that this generation doesn't party like people did in the 90s, 2000s, and is it just nostalgia? And somebody said, no, actually part of it is we have phones. They didn't have phones, so they were present, they were there to party. They weren't recording it, they weren't texting about it, they weren't seeing what other people thought about it. They were partying. Their whole energy was into the party itself. And I just thought those are anyway.

Speaker 3: 18:32

I think those things are interesting, looking at our different relationships to, oh, just jump into this room or just head over to that chat. But it sounds like there's something more at play here in terms of this professor, because I would think they'd be a little more fine. The professor said to join one of the groups. I don't really give a shit. Click on number three. So I'm a little surprised that it was so like I will just sit here and do nothing, nothing. I just can't, like, I can't fathom. You know, I, I, I could be a troublemaker, but I could also be a bit of not even teacher's pet, but like we were told to do a thing, so I guess we gotta do it if that actually so I can't imagine.

Speaker 4: 19:17

That that was the thing that stood out to me the most uh was uh, you didn't follow the instructions, though, like the instructions were to go to the breakout room and then exactly, that's what I said, so maybe I'm a real.

Speaker 2: 19:32

I said to my son I'm like, but they were told to do it. But there was a clear thing that the professor said go, do this please and figure it out, and I'll come back. And they didn't go and they didn't figure it out and I'm like I had a part of this conversation.

Speaker 3: 19:47

I'm sorry, no, no, that's it that's all it was, I just.

Speaker 2: 19:49

But I was astounded. I'm like, well, why doesn't the professor just give them all f's for the day and teach him a lesson? I'm like I don't, I don't know what like but he's like it's every class, it's not just, it's not limited to this class. It's a dynamic of his college experience where he's like people who step out and appease the professor and do things like that are the vast minority and get a ton of shade from everybody else.

Speaker 3: 20:18

So I guess what is optimal to them Should they just essentially come in, register that they showed up to class and then somewhere down the line, someone will hand them a piece of paper that ostensibly would help them get a better job, like what. I guess my question is what's class to you then? Like we start a conversation, we participate in that, like what? What is it you're not buying into here, and what is it that you're here for then, I guess, is my chef's kiss this is the, this is the aligned method, people, so you just peel it back, all right, okay that's so funny.

Speaker 3: 20:55

You're right. You're absolutely right. That's exactly me, because I'm like that's fine if you're not here for class what is what you're here for, so I can understand what the fuck you're doing. But the other thing-.

Speaker 2: 21:04

I love it. I love it, I love it.

Speaker 3: 21:07

It's funny Just today. How we got there is too long and roundabout even for me, but we got to the topic of the military and my son shared that he feels like a lot of people in his generation are saying, yeah, am I doing that? And um, I laughed and I said one thing I really admire about his generation he was born in 05, so I'm pretty confident he's firmly z? Um that they have no qualms about saying fuck this shit. I love that. I watched my parents do marriage and guess what? I'm not sold.

Speaker 3: 21:56

Fuck this shit. How about college? Yeah, that whole thing about you make more money, blah, blah, blah. We watch a couple of generations ahead of us and it turns out that's bullshit. So you know what? Fuck this shit. Like they have a high fuck this shit quotient that I admire, but I would imagine that there are moments when you have to engage where fuck this shit makes you want to choke them out, like if you're that professor, because, like, that was not. This is not the hard part. People split yourself into four breakout groups. This shouldn't be like the, the, the academic challenge of your fucking week. So can we? Can we go?

Speaker 2: 22:36

It is. It is really fascinating, yeah, and how did we get into this? I don't remember, but I know that we were talking.

Speaker 4: 22:43

Oh, the Avengers, I think.

Speaker 2: 22:44

Oh, the Avengers. Yeah, yeah, that was fascinating. That's where it led us down that rabbit hole. But we were talking a little bit about, right before we logged on, about just queuing up streaming service episodes. And who was it? Was it you, boss, or was it coach who was complaining about it? Was it you, boss, or was it coach who was complaining about? I think it was boss. And then coach started going yes, so, boss, what was your take on that?

Speaker 4: 23:11

Wait, sorry, say that again, Cause we've been so far.

Speaker 3: 23:14

No, no, no, you were talking, we were talking Streaming services. Oh, jesus Christ, the actual, I thought.

Speaker 4: 23:19

See, here's the problem is that yesterday morning, monday morning, one of them I up and I thought I need to rewatch American Gods again because I haven't seen Matt Sweeney recently enough. American Gods was on Starz and then for a while was also available on Amazon Prime, and after that I spent a good deal of time wandering around the internet asking streamers if I could pay them money so that I could watch seasons two and three, or, sorry, one and two. I was like I'll give it to you. I have a credit card, I would pay $100 to watch this and no place has it.

Speaker 4: 24:00

So that's extremely, extremely annoying that I want to purchase something that I know exists and I just have to go to YouTube and like watch the same clips of Mad Sweeney and Laura Moon falling in love. Fine, fucking fine, I'll deal with it. But what I was bitching about this morning about streamers is that the platform for Apple TV actually sucks a little bit, in that they will say, oh, you were watching this episode of Ted Lasso, do you want to restart it? I'm like, well, kind of, but can I jump to the next one? And they're like, nope, you're going to have to back out and go to a different section and find all of the seasons and then pick the episodes and then we will send you down that line.

Speaker 3: 24:34

Yeah, that's really weird. What the fuck? Like the fuck.

Speaker 4: 24:39

Netflix figured it out. It out. Netflix has it right. It's like you're on the page. Here's the show, here are all the episodes. It's one link. We will keep playing for you. If you want they figured it out. Copy that shit and then put your stuff on it. Netflix already has the plan. Just follow their plan. It's one of the few times when the OG service did it right the first time. Sorry, myspace, tom, but we have moved past you. In this case, netflix is the standard. Just go with it.

Speaker 3: 25:08

I don't think anyone has been more mistreated in the history of frankly technology than Tom.

Speaker 4: 25:17

But I still remember his name, tom, and I would be his friend.

Speaker 3: 25:20

It's true. As far as I know, I am still his friend and I should probably go back and say hi, he actually ran. What we all want to pretend. Facebook want to pretend because I don't think anybody pretends anymore Facebook was going to be. It really was just like hey guys, let's just come home and hang out. Like all this time you've never seen the expose. Oh, tom trapped me in his office, tried to fuck me. Like you never see anything crazy about Tom.

Speaker 3: 25:47

Tom was just a good motherfucker who wanted everybody to come be on the internet and put up weird graphics and tell you when their show was. I mean, it was just Tom.

Speaker 4: 25:57

he's an American hero and I just think he doesn't get his love any show, and you know speaking of Gen Z, I have seen some, maybe not even Gen Z I don't know where the generation's actually cut off but some kids younger than me saying that they wished that either Facebook or Twitter or whatever else would allow them to customize their page by doing things like adding a background or playing a song. When you turned on and I'm like bitches, bitches, we had it and it was called MySpace and everybody ruined it.

Speaker 4: 26:29

You don't know what you got till. It's gone Exactly.

Speaker 3: 26:34

Joni Mitchell slash Janet. You don't know what you got till. It's gone.

Speaker 2: 26:38

And look at the people that society has elevated in his stead.

Speaker 3: 26:43

No, no, I mean seriously, Like really think about that.

Speaker 1: 26:48

Like Bond villains, it is horrific.

Speaker 3: 26:50

Yeah, yeah, no, terrible, terrible human beings. And they have just made money hand over fist. The pandemic was the best thing that ever happened to their bank accounts. I'm sure that's true for the both of you. I know it's true for me. It's unbelievable, it's un-fucking-believable. These people and that's who we've got, and poor tom is a punchline, like he just shows up and we're ready to joke about the old days I, I will only see, I think that that's the only thing is that for me it's a little bit of a nostalgia that I'm like.

Speaker 4: 27:22

I'll remember the early days of the internet, the, the myspace and um the star geo cities a little bit I didn't do geo cities but I remember that.

Speaker 4: 27:32

I remember like I'm sorry super early cracked was one of my favorite. There was like I think we've talked about early days of the internet. That is how I feel about it. I'm like, oh, oh man, tom tom holds a similar place for me as jonathan taylor, thomas where I'm like that is one of the ones that we should have stuck with. That was a good choice. Jonathan jtt was a good choice for a crush. We should have kept on that road as long as we're doing that.

Speaker 3: 28:00

I have a very strong opinion in terms of hip-hop. I don't know how others will feel about this, because it's truly my own, and it is this there was a fork in the road in the early 90s and one road led to nwa and the other road led to public enemy and hip-hop by and large, chose, chose the NWA road and now Puffy's won it.

Speaker 4: 28:27

Yeah, I don't want to wade in too much because it's not my lane, but I can't disagree with that.

Speaker 2: 28:33

Well, I have an opinion on it as a white man from the suburbs. Let me just take a sip of my sangria here and tell you about rap.

Speaker 3: 28:44

This is super random, and why shouldn't the intro to the show be 45 minutes?

Speaker 3: 28:50

But here's the thing I distinctly remember, just the way you said that about rap and being a white man from the suburbs. One time we were driving back I forget which truck I had at that point, but one of my SUVs I'm a big fan of the big old SUVs and so Coach was in the car and I played this truck I had at that point, but one of my, one of my SUVs I'm a big fan of the big old SUVs and so Coach was in the car and I played this playlist I put together and it was just, it was my I feel like listening to some motherfucking rap music today playlist and a bunch of us in the car. And I just remember Craig Mack, flavor in your ear, coming on and coach just chuckling like, just chuckling like flavor in your ear, like it was cool to watch someone who was unfamiliar, cause I hear it and I've heard it a million times, but like to just appreciate someone hearing that phrase for the first time and going well, isn't that clever?

Speaker 3: 29:43

That was just. It was great. It was great, it was fun. So just one of the great things that's come out of um.

Speaker 2: 29:51

Uh, the internet. Uh, one of the fascinating things about the internets that the kids use um is I really, I truly love this is when people of one musical genre hear something, uh, you know, they film it and it's like a guy who's like a brilliant pianist. Here's a. You know, here's some some you know hip hop that he's never heard.

Speaker 2: 30:14

Or you have like a couple of hip hop artists here Led Zeppelin for the first time, or or or you know, some guitar riff from hard rock or whatever, and and if you're again, uh, curious and not judgmental, right, watching their face, they go. Oh my god, like you see, I'm like damn, it is so much fun to there's an awesome one with two black kids watching, uh listening to the beginning of um phil collins in the air at night.

Speaker 3: 30:43

Or is that genesis?

Speaker 2: 30:44

yeah, yeah, no, it's in the air.

Speaker 3: 30:45

Yeah, and, and, and, that's the classic yeah lose their shit, like they lose the, and I'm like a hundred percent, like my life has been such that I'm very familiar with that piece of music, but like the first time you hear that. I think that's part of the fun of it is, we're so removed from when we first experienced it that watching someone experience it for the first time is amazing. Um, yeah, but yeah, those are I. I love all those. I have memories of same direction my buddy and I.

Speaker 3: 31:17

He, two black guys, two white guys sharing a quad, my freshman year at yale. One of the white guys, his family's from Latvia, which I didn't even know was a fucking place until I met him. We're talking, and he has joined the Yale Russian chorus. He comes home with a CD because I'm old as shit. He comes home with this CD and he plays it and Rodney, who's my friend from Tennessee, who I'm still friends with, by the way lose our shit. We're like, oh my God, this shit is fucking hot.

Speaker 3: 31:54

We were like we would randomly sing sections of it, like I can still tell you it went sung. And we were like what the fuck? If I had turned into a music producer, I promise you, for better or worse, it might have been the least popular rap song ever. At some point I would have had some Russian chorus samples in a track. I just thought it was so goddamn good. And when in life would I have experienced it, except in a setting like that where they just took a bunch of us and threw us in a room and said, figure it out.

Speaker 1: 32:28

Oh, okay, sure.

Speaker 4: 32:29

There's something about music being created that way that I love so much. Figure it out, put something down, get to it. I will say, as much as the internet maybe has ruined some things about life, uh, I love that. It's also watching younger kids discover, uh early, even to mid, almost late 90s r&b, especially the stuff that didn't get more popular.

Speaker 4: 32:54

Um, kristin stewart, the actress, recently did a day drinking with seth myers and uh, a gay man on TikTok said I cannot believe Seth Meyers gets to be in a lesbian relationship with Kristen Stewart. That was my dream, that is what I wanted to do and it's very funny and I love all of it. That's great. But at the end he sampled Swing my Way by KP and Envy by KP and Envy, which is fucking a banger that I had forgotten about. It's so good and so that like it's just all the other uh, uh, uh, swv and like, uh, a bunch of different shit that I put on YouTube and I was like, oh right, that one fucking slams too. Like you kind of remember Montel Jordan, but then you forget about all the other shit and I'm like, oh, this is really good. This is the rest of my week now I'm just going to watch videos of suburban white kids discovering, like, not even back that ass up. But when they do it's always great, it's always a good one anytime, anytime you discover something you weren't aware of.

Speaker 2: 34:01

Coach, you said you'd like that music from the Russian Chorus. Are you? Are you familiar with this coach? Just listen to this. Tell me if you've heard this before.

Speaker 3: 34:19

I mean no, I don't know. I mean, it sounds like things I've heard, but no, not specifically Now. Why should I know this one? Because we're all on our way to middle earth. It's just fucking awesome.

Speaker 2: 34:48

Yeah, no, it's the main title theme from the video game Skyrim, but it has a lot of basis in some of that music you're referencing.

Speaker 3: 34:56

I was told there'd be no rimming.

Speaker 2: 35:04

This is a Ted.

Speaker 3: 35:05

Lasso podcast we uh, I know we're an hour and a half in.

Speaker 2: 35:10

Oh yeah, ted lasso right I want to, uh, I want to tie everything up to say, uh, we're not making fun of, uh, gen z um and and desexualization of of material. I'll give you an example of something I think was really well done a little show, uh, some of the people here are familiar with a little show called Wayne, where there was sexual tension for eight full episodes. And then you get a kiss in the morgue and you go, oh my God, but it didn't feel asexual, it didn't feel like there was nothing there, but it was handled so deftly there, but it was right, you know, handled so deftly, um. And again, it doesn't feel creepy, it doesn't feel, uh, male gazey, it doesn't feel, you know whatever it is not.

Speaker 3: 35:53

Yeah, not at all, and I'm glad you pointed that out, because I think a lot of times it can be sort of like. I mean, we literally talk about men scoring which um what are we talking about?

Speaker 2: 36:05

We're talking about what.

Speaker 3: 36:07

Men scoring like oh, he scored with her.

Speaker 2: 36:11

Oh, oh, oh yeah, we talked about this, yeah, yeah yeah, so I mean it's.

Speaker 3: 36:15

you know there's a lot to, there's a lot for us to pay attention to here. But what I really like about the way it's treated in Wayne is it's not a matter of piety, it's a matter of where they are with one another and how they feel comfortable expressing how they feel about each other. And I'll say and I used to do a whole bit about the fact that I started having sex too young. I was 14, too young. Maybe other people would go, not young enough, but for me it was a bit young. I was not Jamie Tartt, though I thought I was, and so there's something about using things like sex, like drinking, like drug use, to signal I'm a grown up, I'm an adult, I'm mature. And I guess one of the things I would highlight before we move on from is what I like about Gen Z is I'm going to put this crudely intentionally they may feel they're ready to fuck, or they may feel they ain't ready to fuck. What they ain't going to do is fuck to prove to their friends that they're grown. Yes, as a rule, and I like that Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 37:35

I think different people are different. We mature in different ways, different relationships. Who are you dealing with. There's all sorts of variables and I'm totally you know I'm not going to tell anybody's business, but I'm totally good with it and I've encouraged my kids to the point that they're like, please, god, never bring this back up. You can tell me whatever, but there's something I think really powerful and much more mature about going. Yeah, I'm mature, that's one set of things and there's a set of things that I do and those aren't necessarily like one-to-one through life, like one could never have sex and be totally grown and I did not feel that. I felt like definitely part of becoming a man was going out there and scoring.

Speaker 4: 38:21

Yeah, I love that you mentioned that, that you frame it that way, especially all of the concern that too many people seem to be showing the fact around the fact that Gen Z apparently is sexless. A lot of people are concerned. I'm like I don't think you need to be concerned about a teenager sex life in any way, shape or form. I think we could not worry about that. Yeah, and there's that. Yeah, yeah and there's that. We can go to that topic.

Speaker 3: 38:47

I don't want to break up what you're saying Go ahead.

Speaker 4: 38:49

One of the things that I like to point out. When people say we've become sexless and that is definitely a problem, there was a DeSorano DeSorano. It's the Amaretto Amaretto DeSorano, amaretto, amaretto di Serrano there we go.

Speaker 2: 39:03

Amaretto di Serrano, yeah.

Speaker 4: 39:05

Super classy.

Speaker 4: 39:06

And also the commercial was overtly sexual in a very lame way, like it is a woman at the bar who drinks her drink and then the bartender goes to take it away and she's like no, no, no, no, no, and she needs to take the ice cube out of the glass and like suck the remaining liquor off of it and then put it back in the glass. And it's supposed to be like yes, she loved it so much that she couldn't let a single drop get away. But also they were using sex in order to sell this liquor. And I was like maybe the reason that the kids are sexless now is because we made sex so fucking lame in the late 90s and early 2000s that they're like that's what my parents did.

Speaker 4: 39:45

My parents were weird, horny assholes that used sex to sell everything. So we're gonna use sex for different things, and that is when we want to have sex with people like I do think that this is just a basic. The pendulum swung way too far and we were like sex is great in every way, shape or form. And now they're like I don't need to see naked women in my video games. I'm just trying to play tetris. Like can we have something that you aren't overly sexualizing in order to self like can you not commercially sexualize every single fucking thing for a second? Can we have something?

Speaker 3: 40:20

because it's actually what I love it. It's actually not.

Speaker 2: 40:23

But what if I want a romance?

Speaker 3: 40:24

It's kind of like a societal marketing version of Tommy Cole's take on the Tommy Cole's take on on the strip clubs Right. I mean it's, it's, it's saying what are we doing, by the way? Yeah, why. Why do I need, if it's a mission to save the hostages, why do I need, like anatomically impossible, large breasts swigging to and fro?

Speaker 4: 40:51

yes, while that's happening, it's happening always sunny, has this uh running bit about? God damn it. I'm not gonna remember the name now, but uh, uh, an action movie where the main character, played by del flundering, uh shows dom like it's. It's a. It's a regular 1980s action movie Thundergun, thundergun. The movie is called Thundergun and John Thundergun has to drop Dom or else the movie isn't complete. And I'm like it's fine to show dicks. I'm fine with that. It's fine to have sex in a movie. Why do you need to have a very explicit sex scene in the middle of an action? Why is that a requirement? What is it about the commercialism of the time that said that that is how we show adult movies? That brought movies for grown-ups.

Speaker 3: 41:40

Men, men, men. That's how you show he's a big hero. Everybody wants to fuck him, and they will.

Speaker 2: 41:44

Floppy wieners floppy wieners floppy wieners, floppy wieners, floppy wieners, floppy. I love what you guys said. It's great. Gen Z is wonderful. We shouldn't worry about them being burdened by proving what big men and women they are, like I did. The reason I have four kids is just to prove.

Speaker 4: 42:06

I've had sex at least four times, that's everybody.

Speaker 2: 42:08

It's quantifiable Baby making fool, that's one.

Speaker 3: 42:09

Baby making, that's everybody quantifiable baby making fool that's one baby making fool, not connected, but fuck it at this point when Daphne the whole story I'll tell at some other point if I haven't told it but of us finding out we were having twins. It's hilarious and a study in some of the most basic differences between Daphne and Orlando. That said, she was not amused. I didn't stop laughing for a full 48 hours and no, I'm not kidding. And so just thought it was the funniest shit ever. And so when Tech walked out after informing us and she's sitting there in absolute shock, I turned to her and said us and she's sitting there in absolute shock. I turned to her and said I'm sorry, baby, sometimes I don't know my own strength. I mean, she did not think that was funny.

Speaker 3: 43:00

I still think it's funny and my children are voting age. I love it. I still remember really, really selling it too, like I knew before the woman left the room. The joke, I had it. I had it teed up, ready to go. You're a strong and powerful man that's what it's like being married to me.

Speaker 2: 43:22

There you go yep, it's just just a carnival ride of delight. I wanted to say let me know when you kill Jason Bourne. That's the line that butthole Tommy Cole said to the bouncer. I've been laughing at it for a week and a half.

Speaker 3: 43:39

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, let me know when you kill Jason Bourne to a guy who is shirt-shaming?

Speaker 3: 43:46

It's also humor. That makes sense to me. For a Tommy Cole yeah, like there's a Tommy Cole. Yeah, like there's a brand of sarcasm that's like not low class, because low class sounds like a judgment of who people are. But I kind of mean more like the kind of guys who at some point, like sat on a porch or sat on a stoop, or you know what I mean like just that brand, like no, I didn't go to the hamptons for the summer. Yes, I know, and there's something in that space where that brand of sarcasm and like cultural reference really kills. Like you, you can score major points in a group by being able to pull off a line like that. That's a very funny joke, that's a very funny insult.

Speaker 2: 44:37

It was great and so, without further ado, we begin the final series of this Ted Lasso coverage. This is I don't know if we never knew if we'd officially get there, but this is season two, episode 12, entitled Inverting the Pyramid of Success. This is directed by Decaloni and written by Jason Sudeikis and Joe Kelly. When I went back to watch this, I watched obviously many, many times now, but recently, last night I got it's funny because we had a little break thanks to just doing some Wayne episodes and I was just filled with nostalgia and gratitude and adoration for the characters. We haven't been away from it that long, it's been just a week or so, but just coming back to Ted Lasso been just a you know whatever week or so. But just coming back to ted lasso, um, and this is the point I was bringing up in the beginning that new people are finding ted lasso and then, by virtue of that, new people are finding us, uh, and we get new buttercups out of it and uh, more, more wonderful people that join our community. Um, there are so many people that are just listening and lurking and are not gonna ever make their presence known, but we know you're out there and we really appreciate it and we love that you've come to us through this show. It's why we started recording right away.

Speaker 2: 46:23

Right from the jump, we knew this was important. We saw it as a different thing. Now we've harped on every possible topic since then, but it really comes down to the fact that this show is trying to be different and look at things in a different way, and especially in a world where we highlight the fact that it's very difficult to discern between the definition of what we would perceive collectively as masculinity without adding the word toxic to it. In this day and age, it's very, very difficult to define masculinity without all of the baggage that has come for the last several thousand years really, but in our lifetime it's difficult. It's difficult to say what a new masculinity looks like. And Ted Lasso tries as best. It does not always succeed. I'll point that out. There is engendered misogyny, even when it doesn't mean to.

Speaker 2: 47:25

I think the show makes mistakes, even though it tries not to, which is, I think, one of the even though it tries not to, which is. I think one of the most charming things about it is. I was watching last night with Juliana at home and it was funny to see her take on. You know she's much more distance from it than I do. I basically it's been the better part of three years of our lives where we've recorded and followed every episode and tried to deconstruct every element of the show. But it's fascinating how captivating it is, how its heart is in the right place. Generally, whether or not you agree with all of the episodes and I know for those of you just joining us and listening for the first time Coach tends to be a true believer, coach Bishop for the first time, coach tends to be a true believer, coach Bishop I tend to be somewhere in the middle and Boss tends to be a true lover of season one, and then she will give praise where praise is due for the other two.

Speaker 4: 48:24

I'm the Simon Cowell.

Speaker 3: 48:28

That's how we're defining it.

Speaker 2: 48:31

I don't think that's valid because simon cowell, you know like his mandate is to be a day.

Speaker 4: 48:36

Your man, you're nice, when you like something, you'll call it out, yeah yeah, and also, um, he shows slightly more cleavage than I do during tapings. But aside from that, like my he does, I'm staying.

Speaker 1: 48:48

No, I know he's, he bothers me so much, whatever you can imagine that a person that sees the world like me probably isn't thrilled about a person that sees the world like him, so I just I don't like putting putting negative energy out there.

Speaker 2: 49:01

I don't like how he doesn't. I like I talk to people. I don't like who he thinks he is, whatever, just not my he can you know again and again I shouldn't be judgmental about I'm just saying I just I don't understand that that tactic really bothers me. But for the purposes of entertainment I understand that it's what you want to see.

Speaker 4: 49:19

I don't know, I'm. I'm here to shoot your darlings. I'm here to kill your darlings. That's, that's my role. Whoever does that, that's me.

Speaker 2: 49:29

Well, more than more, more so than anyone else on the show for sure. So that brings us to let me tell you the trajectory. We did all of season one. We did most of season two. We got to halfway through Beard After Hours, which is episode nine of season two, and because we were being lazy and leisurely and we thought, oh, you know, we have all the time in the world. Of course, you know, trying to get a coach to do anything is brutal. He's so lazy, Never has anything going on.

Speaker 3: 50:02

Wow, boy, last episode, now lazy. Wow, yeah, wow now lazy, wow. Yeah, I'm not wow he's about to rename me coach DEI in a second actually coach is one of the busiest people in America at some point I am going to sell you all the way out, like I'm just going to pull clips and send it like to the nation of Islam and just be like if he dies, he dies, no, no, if you don't know about being sarcastic, uh yeah, no, it is.

Speaker 2: 50:37

It would be daunting. This I at least once an episode. I say things like so the takeaway is women shouldn't have jobs.

Speaker 3: 50:44

I mean, it's just like I say that it's the worst the worst shit in the world, I won't yeah, it doesn't matter what because it's fine, whatever, but someone who listens to this regularly did kind of check in with me, not kind of they. They checked in with me. Basically be like is uh, what's the story this guy? Is he racist?

Speaker 1: 51:05

I was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're, no, no no no, I was like no, no, no, no, no, no, we're fine.

Speaker 3: 51:10

It wasn't like that blatant, but it was kind of in the direction of like, should I be concerned about this?

Speaker 1: 51:16

And I was like absolutely not.

Speaker 3: 51:18

No, no, no, no, no. They caught us. They knew to ask me. They caught us joking around, and so they were like oh no, no, no, no, no, no, he is. I am having all the fun in the world. Nothing horrifies this man more than when I grab something like that and twist it into a racist moment.

Speaker 2: 51:38

Oh, I'm so sick I'm so sick that somebody had to ask me Are you serious? No, no, seriously, no, no, I'm telling you because you're fine.

Speaker 3: 51:44

That's why they checked with me, because they were like I can't imagine you being buddies with a guy who and I was like, yeah, no, but that means they may have suspected it, which is horrible.

Speaker 2: 51:52

Which means it's horrible ugh.

Speaker 3: 51:56

I gotta be faster to say it's okay, folks, it's okay. Master Castleton's good to us.

Speaker 2: 52:02

No, I'm kidding oh my god, don't say that, that's not fun. Oh my god if he could see your face.

Speaker 3: 52:13

You're like please, no, no, no no, no, I I bullshit around, but castleton's good, castleton's good, he's good and that's it for today, folks. So we will yeah, yeah, thanks for tuning in. You heard you. You heard the opening credits music, so I hope you feel like you got your non-money's worth, and there you go.

Speaker 2: 52:39

All right, I'm going to try to recover as we do this. That's a gut punch for me, I wish.

Speaker 3: 52:46

I hadn't said it then.

Speaker 2: 52:46

No, no, no, no, no, I can feel it, I feel sick, no no, no, no, I just yeah, no, no, no, no, I can feel it, I feel sick. No, no, no, no, I just yeah, no, no. Anyone never gets the wrong idea Because it means there are people. Listen, one of the little things you learn when you work online, as long as I have. When you write an article, for example, and then someone posts a comment, you realize that's like 0.01% of the readership or anywhere between 0.01% and 1%, right? So you have to take it with a grain of salt. So if someone says, hey, I don't like how you categorized millennials, whatever, I've never had that comment. But I'm saying I'm just grabbing anything. I don't like how you're talking about women, I don't like it, whatever, it is right, you go, oh, fuck it, it's 1% of whatever. And then you go, oh, there's a million people who read this article. And you go, oh shit, but it sticks with me because, again, I only want to put good out in the world. I try to.

Speaker 2: 53:47

Who was it? Who was the comedian? Who was it? Who is the um comedian? That said, I don't hate people because their race is the stupidest thing to hate someone for. I hate them. There's so many better reasons to hate people than their? Well, who was it that said that in their race.

Speaker 3: 54:02

Yeah, I don't remember why. I kind of remember that, I kind of remember the logic because it made me laugh.

Speaker 2: 54:07

Here it's, it's just I don't remember who said it yeah, yeah, you just hope that we can get to a place. Uh, I don't know if we'll do it in our lifetime. Um, you know, uh butthole bobby cole gets thrown out of the, out of the club. Uh, the the uh bouncer who is is uh black, makes fun of his shirt. It's not he's making fun of it that when I there's not a white thing, it's like your shirt suck and he goes you're a shirt shamer, and then he makes fun of his shirt. It's not he's making fun of it that there's not a white thing. It's like your shirt suck and he goes you're a shirt shamer, and then he makes fun of the guy's tactical vest.

Speaker 2: 54:37

I didn't detect any racial element there whatsoever. It's just two people being like hey, fuck you, no, fuck you. And I'm like that's a better world. I, I don't know. You know what I mean. Like I just think it's. I don't know, I think it's just mean. Like I just think it's, I don't know, I think it's just whatever. So, yes, I would hope that that's what we're putting into the world, making fun of everybody equally, and hopefully, you know.

Speaker 3: 54:59

I thought about what you've said about both shows Wayne and Ted Lasso in terms of and I agree with you that that's sort of like, hey, we're going to have a person here, there's going to be a security guard Sure, it could be the standard portly white guy, but what if we make it somebody else? Yeah, and I think there's a lot of value to that. One of the things that, one of the things this show does that I like, is, in doing that, it doesn't lean, it doesn't feel colorblind to me, which is its own set of problems we can get into some other time.

Speaker 2: 55:35

Are we talking Wayne or Ted Lasso?

Speaker 3: 55:38

Either Right, okay, Like the fact that you could have that vibe in Ted Lasso but also have the imperialism joke, the fact that you could have that go on in Wayne right. But the fact that Orlando can walk in and say I am Crystal's kid, right. He makes a sound bet that there's a Black woman in that building named Crystal, or who they call Crystal, right. So the race is part of it, is part of how they live. They are full human beings. I think a lot of times in stories what happens is the gay person is the gay person as opposed to some guy named jeff who you know loves this and hates that and doesn't root for the local team and is gay, yeah. Or it does root for the team because it doesn't give who the local team and is gay.

Speaker 2: 56:30

Yeah, or it does root for the local team because it doesn't give, gives a shit. Right, exactly Right. Yeah, it's woven in rather than yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:35

It's part of it. Okay, let's get one gay person, one black person.

Speaker 2: 56:38

Yes, One angry woman, one nice one, yeah, yeah, all the stupid.

Speaker 4: 56:53

Yeah, colorblind and having colorblind casting, and it's sort of the come on. When people say, when they're like oh, I don't see color, I'm like that's not the right, that's the, the sexism equivalent of. Um, of course I'm not sexist. I definitely think women could be as good as men and I'm like like the. The fact that you think that that's the best way to frame that is by itself really fucking sexist like what, hey, if you guys, if you guys put your minds to it.

Speaker 3: 57:19

Yeah, that's so fucking funny, sorry no, that's, that's the entire point.

Speaker 4: 57:28

Just if, if, even when you point it out to people when you're like what if we had a system of valuing people's actions that was outside of how they compare to a different gender, they're like well, but women can be tough too if they want to, and I'm like great job, buddy, you sure picking it up there somebody.

Speaker 3: 57:46

I saw somebody post that they're going to start saying like a male coach, a male photographer, a male, and I was like you know what? Thank you for that. I don't know that I do a ton of that. I know that I have not avoided doing that and I am going to be more careful. You know what I mean. But yes, I remember walking around. Yeah, I was an African-American studies major. I've mentioned it twice in this episode, so I know coach is going to kill me now, so that's on me. But I remember walking around campus and you know you start learning and reading and seeing all this and I remember thinking who the hell are white people to be equal to? No-transcript.

Speaker 2: 59:11

Nor should you of sort of making the characters the fundamentally important thing and whatever race or gender or identity is secondary and everyone's just. You know, one of the things I love about both of these shows is that they all these memorable characters, my God. And yes, maybe their sexuality is part of their identity, is part of their persona, is part of whatever we learn. Sometimes we know if they're straight or if they're gay from the get-go, Sometimes we don't. I just love the sort of natural flow of it for both shows and, yeah, they both do an amazing job. Go ahead, boss.

Speaker 4: 59:49

To what extent do you find the characters memorable because the show title tells you what their names are? I was making a joke about the fact that your favorite TV shows just tell you who you're supposed to be paying attention to.

Speaker 3: 1:00:05

Ted Lasso.

Speaker 4: 1:00:07

Wayne.

Speaker 3: 1:00:08

Wayne, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:00:09

As soon as you said it, I went huh, were you also very into Bones and Castle, by any chance.

Speaker 2: 1:00:16

I did like Castle Monk, I did like Castle Monk. There you go.

Speaker 4: 1:00:21

Monk yeah, woman on Castle. I don't know what Castle character her name is. Oh my.

Speaker 2: 1:00:28

God she is Whatever her character's name is.

Speaker 4: 1:00:31

Oh my God she is. Whatever her character's name is, doesn't matter in real life I threw up in her bathroom.

Speaker 1: 1:00:38

Okay, are you?

Speaker 2: 1:00:38

talking about Stana. Uh-huh, Stana Katic yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:00:42

Stana Katic yeah, I went to high school with her younger brothers and they had a house party and I threw up in her bathroom. Oh, she's the one I remember you mentioning this, yeah, no, no, she's she is gorgeous it's probably I never met her in real life, but deshaun, theo and the one I wasn't that close with, marco maybe.

Speaker 2: 1:01:03

Yeah, definitely, I did throw up yeah, uh, castle was a fun show show and had some really cute dynamics and the two of them, her and Nathan Fillion, were a thing and then they weren't and you could tell and it ruined the show. I just hate whenever I see people date at work, I go no, no, this can't end well.

Speaker 3: 1:01:27

I wish I could say it in Italian. I had a friend who was Italian who could say don't shit where you eat in Italian, and I always thought like, oh wow, sounds so cool when you say it same message, though yeah, it's, it's really something.

Speaker 2: 1:01:41

we open up season 2, episode 12, inverting the season of the pyramid of success. We do open up with a little little, some drama here and as the episode starts, we're on in five seconds over black. Good morning, it's Friday. Glad to join us, I'm your host, jeff Stelling, here with Chris Camara and George Kartrickrick, of course, the inestimable george kartrick um played by bill fellows. Uh, I, I just want to point out again we talk, I get so enamored with wayne and how many amazing characters. We just had bradley on like like and we were talking about reggie andgie. I just love these characters so much. And on Ted Lasso, like I love George Karchuk. George Karchuk is, it's not like I like him as a person, he's horrible, horrible. But the acting job by Bill Feltz, you just go, my God, it is so spot on. You know, it's just amazing.

Speaker 3: 1:02:50

I agree, and one of the things I like about the George Cartwright character is his blissful ignorance of what he is a part of. Like he, I get the sense that Rupert knows out in the world. He's a man of the world. He understands that there are people who believe in things like, you know, feminism, you know. I mean like he's aware of that. But george kartrick, when he turned, when he says to rebecca, whatever you need to get off your ample bosom, which I I remember just like recoiling in my house, I don't know that he fully gets why that is not the fuck okay, because that's his boss. She could have been about to give him a raise and she could have fired him for that fucking line. So he doesn't get To him. This is life, this is the way it is. He just kind of ambles through it.

Speaker 2: 1:03:50

If somebody told George Karchak, if they said, listen, I'm not trying to be a dick, but you're a sexist and a bigot, what would he say to them?

Speaker 4: 1:04:00

Oh, it's just a laugh. Come on, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3: 1:04:05

Everybody's so sensitive.

Speaker 2: 1:04:07

Yeah, something in that direction, yes, Right In my day, as we head to the last weekend of the season, we have an update on those rumors of change at West Ham United. Did you guys know at this point, did that land with you at all or no?

Speaker 3: 1:04:29

I mean, I didn't gather what it meant off the bat. I thought we were meant to lean in. I didn't, but I don't know if either of you got ahead of it.

Speaker 2: 1:04:37

Yeah, or it could have just been a throwaway line to introduce the segment, but first we turn our attention to the championship and AFC Richmond, the club of our former foul-mouthed colleague Roy Kent and Chris Chuckles. The headline this morning is the news that Ted Lasso left in the middle of a Tottenham match this season, not due to stomach problems but because of a panic attack. Where we left off, of course, last episode to refresh everyone's memory, this was at the end of season two, episode 11 was. It was midnight train of Royston that Trent Cram had texted Ted saying yeah, just so you know, I'm going to run this thing. I got it from an anonymous source and, just to let you know, the anonymous source was WhoCoach.

Speaker 3: 1:05:37

Nate the not-so-great.

Speaker 2: 1:05:40

Yeah. So that's where we enter this particular episode, with a lot of doubt around why Nate would have done that. Certainly we've talked about how we saw certain warning signs leading up to this and we saw Nate talking about oh don't you wish you got the credit or you know things like that, but did any of us know he would? I didn't think he would stoop, stoop to this low, um.

Speaker 3: 1:06:14

So yeah, coach, go ahead no, I mean it was shocking, and I I think it was intended to be shocking like no matter, because I think if he had said something in a meeting or whatever, you could have differing opinions on whether, like well, he frustrated. This is such a violation that I think any person with a basic sense of morality, even if they choose the immoral path, would recognize this ain't right.

Speaker 2: 1:06:40

You would think, yeah. So they got a little video of Ted running off. And now these guys are talking Lasso appears to be leaving, george Lasso's clearly be leaving, george Lasso's clearly not fit to coach. And Chris is sweet. He says come on now, george, be compassionate, you know. Come on now. He says would Bill Shankly have a panic attack? Would Brian Clough, would Alex Ferguson? He's listing famous Premier League coaches and they say, be fair, no, of course he wouldn't Look if your ship's being attacked. And and, um, your ship is being attacked. So now he's making a, an allegory about the? Uh, the ship of state, or the uh sort of sort of head of the, uh of the household, as it were, at a soccer, uh, soccer match, and comparing these old gaffers to, uh, ted Lasso. Uh, if he's just being tacky, run to the bridge. You want to find a captain whose brain works, not some big girls blouse. So first of all, there's a lot there's a lot on plaque here.

Speaker 2: 1:07:43

When. I I you want to find a captain whose brain works, so to him, somebody who is subsumed with anxiety to the point where it causes them to have a panic attack. An actual active breakdown means your brain doesn't work.

Speaker 3: 1:08:14

That's how that fucking relic sees, sees the world makes me crazy. Um, well, also, I mean, there are a couple things to it. Um, george, calling me to do a bit about? Um, essentially about ptsd. I forget the exact unfolding of it and I'm not. I don't want to pretend and ruin it. So if you get a chance to check it out, do do. I'll try to throw it into the clip into the community. But anyway, he's talking about PTSD essentially and he talks about how, over the years.

Speaker 3: 1:08:38

So it started out as shell shock and then there were like a couple of intermediate phrases and they get more nuanced, more medical and, I'm sure some would say, more soft.

Speaker 3: 1:08:52

And what I would argue to George is I don't know who these other men are and maybe they're just steady, whatever, but they've had their moments, whether they would admit it or not. And the fact that ted lasso went away and chose therapy as opposed to gritness, tea through it and drinking a lot, like it's a whole revision of how any of this works. Even even the allegory he chooses is so steeped in top-down, the single-man leader Like no, there's a whole motherfucking team on this ship and that captain's job is to get the team to do what they're supposed to do, like it's not what's he going to do? Like jump out and swim and nudge the fucking ship over. No, like, so it's all so woven in. And then to bring in, not only now that your brain doesn't work, but the worst, the worst thing I could say about you you're like a woman. I mean, it's just. This is the old manhood, just neon lights, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:10:11

Well and I know that I've mentioned before that if Ted had gotten thrown out of the game red carded, I guess, because I do sports now If he'd been kicked out of the game because he was yelling at the ref too much, everyone would have went 100%. George Hartrick would have been like that's how you coach. You get in there and you scream at the ref 100%.

Speaker 4: 1:10:30

George Hartrick would have been like that's how you coach, you get in there and you scream at the ref A hundred percent. But because it was his panic attack, this was that he was being weak and an unfit leader. And he says in there about how he'd be speaking German oh no, that's coming up later. Sorry, I'm going to hold off on that, but there is a way in which we have routinely throughout history said you can only accomplish these things if you are tough in these ways. And then we have evidence of people existing and doing things difficult and brave in ways that aren't what we have prescribed and we say, oh well, they don't count.

Speaker 4: 1:11:05

Like all of the people, I'll say very quickly that Dan Savage All of the people, I'll say very quickly that Dan Savage, the advice columnist and sex positivity advocate, said that when he was in high school the most badass guy that he knew was a very tall, very flamboyant gay man with long hair all the way down past the shoulders and he would wear makeup to school and he was like out and loudly proud and he was like that guy went to school every, went to high school every day in the 1970s as a gay kid and like people beat him up and they told him he was a sissy and they called him all kinds of names, but like he kept showing up day after day being who he was, he was the toughest kid I ever met and I think that we never think about it in that way that doing things honestly and being yourself even when it is risky, is braver than pushing through and just doing what you need to.

Speaker 3: 1:12:05

I would add to that because, yes, a hundred percent and a hundred percent that that guy is a total badass. Um, love that. It's very much in my ethos to be like. You're gonna have to whoop my ass again tomorrow because I got some new mascaras and you go fuck yourself. Um, it's amazing. I try to think back. It is great, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 1:12:26

it's amazing you go. Yeah, I just got some new mascara, so I hope you brought your fighting fists, because, uh, I'm gonna look fucking spectacular tomorrow.

Speaker 3: 1:12:37

Wait, wait, wait till I can feel these bruises. I've been, I've been work, I've been waiting to work on that technique. Like it's unbelievable. The courage is mind-blowing.

Speaker 2: 1:12:46

It's, it's amazing and I'm like how did we ever, what kind of a world? Where was that not celebrated? You know that guy shouldn't have to defend himself ever a hundred percent still it's remarkable

Speaker 3: 1:12:56

I. I want to toss this in and I do it's, it's important and and and coach knows I've. You know, there are people in in in his life who I have jumped in at certain points to be like oh, anxiety, I got you. Come on over and I'll say one of the most powerful things and Ted was in the process here, so he wasn't quite there enough for what we would hope would happen, which is that he could process it right down the sideline One of the most powerful distinctions for me has become I used to think I'm doing this work, this personal work, so I won't feel anxious anymore.

Speaker 3: 1:13:39

And now the big breakthrough that I'm experiencing over, like Taylor, really in a very personal, real way over the last year is I've done all this work, so now I can be anxious. I've done all this work, so now I can be sad, I've done all this work right, so I don't I, I've given up, and I find I catch myself when I go the other way again. I don't fight the negative emotion. It saves me a ton of fucking energy and it helps make me more sane because I'm not having an internal fight about I feel scared. No, I don't. Yes, I do. No, I don't. Yeah, I'm scared. Now I am scared and I'm about to go do this thing. Now I am anxious and I'm about to go do this thing. Now I am anxious and I'm about to go do this thing.

Speaker 3: 1:14:32

And one of the things that bothers me on a serious side of the George Kartrix of the world is they really don't know what the fuck they're talking about. But like, not just like in an emotional, like poetic way, like in a medical, psychological, scientific way you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you speak with such authority and you speak with such conviction that somebody who's feeling anxious is very likely to listen, because there isn't a sure, there's a, there's a safety that that, that's perceived when someone says this is what the world is like and you do this and you do that, and the boys should beat that guy up because boys don't wear makeup. So fuck that guy, let's get him in the line and it's yeah. Anyway, sitting with the emotion, like that sounds so woo-woo, nothing has made me more powerful than that development.

Speaker 2: 1:15:34

No, it's huge. Listen, as someone who was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 44, coach was 48. I mean, we still have friends who don't think it's real.

Speaker 1: 1:15:48

Like who think the only reason? Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:15:50

Oh, that's your excuse why you haven't done x y or z. I'm very successful, uh. So you know, you gotta, you gotta find some justification. So you're gonna chalk it up to this imaginary thing, rather than this is the way you know. Your brain associates it and uh, the chemical uh work in your, in your particular brain, but it's just hard for people to to understand and it's very george kartrick-esque, you know you don't know you're talking about.

Speaker 3: 1:16:18

There's a some people would be familiar. There's a book, um, thinking fast and slow I want to say daniel climbing, but I might have I might be messed up the name, but at any rate um, there's this concept of what I see is all there is, and the George Cartrix of the world live that. They embody that right. So if I've never heard of ADHD before today, you can tell me that a professional who has studied such things, who has looked at studies of thousands and thousands of people and the actual physical reactions in their brains when certain things happen.

Speaker 3: 1:16:59

But I ain't never heard of that shit, so it ain't so. Right, you can show some people are intersex, some people are blah blah. Right, you can medically show there's zero chance, even if we just want to use physiology, that there are two gent, two distinct and binary genders, and you're still gonna have people go look, that's just science. You want me to play around and play along with your. It's like you're not playing along with shit. You just never seen this before, so you've decided, because you haven't seen it, it doesn't exist.

Speaker 2: 1:17:32

This is yeah. It's like it's yes, it's the uh medical equivalent of the east india company. It's like there's one way to do things we're going to force it down your throat.

Speaker 2: 1:17:43

We refuse to believe there's any other way. Um, yeah, it's brutal and and george karchuk epitomizes this um he says uh, you want to find a captain whose brain works, not some big girls blouse. And if you were curious about that as an american, um, big girls blouse, you look it up and it's wikipedia listed as a british idiom, british english idiom meaning ineffectual or weak, someone failing to show masculine strength or determination. It was first, according to you know, just sort of a different web search I did here website called the Cut, where it says the earliest written record was the 1969 episode of the British sitcom Nearest and Dearest in which the character insults another by calling him a quote-unquote big girl's blouse. It's not something I was familiar with. I had to look it up. I thought it was weird. I think it's the British version of saying take off your skirt, nancy, kind of thing.

Speaker 4: 1:18:47

Yeah, or you throw a girl any of those things.

Speaker 3: 1:18:51

Any skirt nancy kind of thing. Yeah, or you throw like a girl any of those things any of those lovely, anything that associates you with the woman.

Speaker 4: 1:18:55

I would like to um in that vein, quickly shout out I've talked about bob's burgers before, one of the best episodes they've done fucking amazing. Oh my god, I don't know why in 2023, the producers on bob's burgers wanted to absolutely ruin me, but they put out the Plight Before Christmas and then an episode called Amelia, where Louise does a project on Amelia Earhart. It fucking kills me. It's so goddamn good. But when she's talking about Amelia and Amelia's plane and the number of force, power and how she made it bright, red and she said Amelia didn't decide to get a bigger, louder plane.

Speaker 4: 1:19:34

In the same way that I don't have to lower my voice to get people to hear me, I could talk down here, but why would I want to do that? And I love her so much. I love everything about it. But I also love that they pointed out very, very blatantly that being loud is not the same as being confident, and confident is not the same as being right, and that you can do things that. But why don't you wear a big girl's blouse? They're fucking comfy. Go ahead and fucking put. Put a skirt on. A skirt is great. Do you know how much airflow you get up there if you're wearing a skirt. It's phenomenal. So like it's not just that we are saying that you need to behave in these ways, but also that not behaving in these other ways is to your own detriment.

Speaker 3: 1:20:15

Like it's good, there's a duke basketball player we just got for those unfamiliar for years and years and years um oh, I know you're gonna say I love this, I love this. Yes I knew, yeah, I was so happy when I saw it.

Speaker 2: 1:20:30

I loved it and I love what his reaction to it. Go ahead, please tell us.

Speaker 3: 1:20:34

So there's a Duke men's basketball player a men's basketball player, not a regular basketball player, but who basically signed a deal with a nail polish company, right? So, of course, the knuckle draggers are just fucking beside themselves and I made the mistake of reading the I don't know. It's a bit like picking at a scab, because there are articles where I'm like you know what's in the comments, oh yeah, yeah, you already know you could write the comment for them. Why must you go down there and experience this? But I did and I did, and it was very upsetting, and I actually responded to one particularly loud mouth breather how fragile is your manhood that it can be outdone by less than an ounce of paint? I'm concerned, actually, about what this manhood you all speak of is that it's this goddamn fragile that some 19-year-old putting team colors on his fucking nails is some signal of the end of it. Maybe it should go If it's that fucking fragile. Maybe it should go.

Speaker 4: 1:21:51

If it's that fucking fragile, maybe it should go yeah, I would like to personally for many reasons, but in this case, think jeremy allen white. There is a photo of him someplace that I came across where his nails are painted bright blue and I didn't know that that was a thing for me before, that I didn't understand that. I liked painted fingernails in that way, and then it was straight out of community. It was Dean Pelton going. It's better not awaken anything in me, and now it turns out it's a thing that I like. Now I am looking at the nails to see if they're painted, because I enjoy it. So I don't know, maybe that's what they're afraid of. All of a sudden, women will realize that they want men to actually take care of themselves and decorate on occasion.

Speaker 2: 1:22:38

That's all we're going to be good for someday, when we were seeing each other.

Speaker 3: 1:22:43

She did that. She trimmed my nails and she put clear nail polish on them. And I still remember one of my buddies noticing and she like buffed them, like put clear nail polish on them. And I still remember one of my buddies noticing and being like you got nail polish on and me explaining like I really did, like I was fine doing it, and I'm sure I did it other times again, but I definitely felt the need to assure him like oh, it's not, as you know, she was hanging out with her and she wanted to do it, so you know I'm gonna do that. You know, like, as you make, she was hanging out with her and she wanted to do it, so you know I do that, you know like as you make your voice deeper to make sure that he knows oh no, yeah, no, just so he understood.

Speaker 1: 1:23:16

Yeah, no, hey man but I mean, you want me to touch your penis or anything that's the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 1:23:27

Like, god, god forbid, your masculinity is impure. It makes me. I love this kid jared mccain is his name, um and he's like, uh, he puts it on social media. He's like, sorry if that offends any of you guys. It's like and then, of course, the public outcry and he says, uh, he started out by by doing it because he did it one time and then he had a great game and he's like whatever, I'm gonna keep going. And uh, and he says a great game. And he's like, whatever, I'm going to keep going. And he says the hate is funny because it's usually grown men most of the time.

Speaker 3: 1:23:56

It's the saddest thing. I'm like you don't have anything else to fucking worry about than some 19-year-olds. And guess what, in our generation it was earrings. I still remember when I got I had the the left earring, but then I got the right earring and I still remember my brother very unsubtly suggesting in a car with him and me and my father that well then, clearly orlando's gay, yeah, like I just remember, like the vibe and just being like wow, so it's always it's. We have a real need to keep each other in line and I definitely think people are scared of psychological issues. They're scared of mental issues. So I think that adds to the whole thing, because it's like, if I can pretend it could never happen to me, I can say all these things.

Speaker 2: 1:24:48

Their giant skill set is projection. So whenever I see someone do it, I'm like, oh, you know, but it's like you know, all the, all the republican congress people trying to fight, you know, fight for quote-unquote family values or fighting, you know, any kind of anti-gay agenda and being caught in restrooms and you know, and other oh, you know, we got to fight for family values and they, they end up being arrested for pedrooms. And you know, oh, you know, we've got to fight for family values and they end up being arrested for pedophilia. And you're like, okay, like it's so obvious, like the game, the playbook is so obvious now that if you're someone that's going to lash out at this kid, you know it says more about you than about him. And I just love his.

Speaker 2: 1:25:29

Again, gen Z, love his attitude, he's totally fine with it. He says, uh, most of the time it's it's usually grown men Like you're a grown man, just hating on a kid Doesn't affect me at all. I just kind of laugh at it and I'm like good for him. And also, on the point of throwing like a girl, um, when this airs, I think you'll still have time. Yeah, I think the day this airs will be the women's Final Four Coach thankfully turned me on to the Elite Eight in women's basketball. I hadn't watched women's college basketball in a long time and holy shit, holy shit. These women are unbelievable. I'm just like it's such good basketball, it's such good and it these women are unbelievable.

Speaker 3: 1:26:11

I'm just like it's such good basketball, it's such good and it's like, yeah, it's such good basketball and I I'm such a I have to admit I just really I really enjoy women's sports more than men's sports.

Speaker 2: 1:26:22

I don't know why anymore. I just enjoy the vibe or something I watch. Anyone who listens this knows I'm a watch a ton of women's soccer. I can tell you players on every single team in the world. I can, you can pick a country and I'll tell you who my favorite player is. And then I celebrate when those players, uh, you know, switch teams and I know who the club teams are. And I cover it uh, you know, cover the women's world. I cover every major tournament, uh, in the world. I love it so much and it it's so much fun to watch and so it was just great to see just the level of play and also like there's some superstars that you're just like I don't understand what she just did with her body. Like I watched it. I'm like I do not understand how that ball got in there. Your arm shouldn't bend that way and I'm just like it is. It is the level of athletic prowess is stunning and it's so great to see and I'm so thrilled that it's easy to find on television.

Speaker 1: 1:27:25

It wasn't like I had to search for it, like once upon a time.

Speaker 2: 1:27:28

You know, the only thing I struggle with now is finding asian uh women's soccer games. That's really the hard like. If I want to watch uh team japan, it can be a little little daunting, but even now, you know, I watch uh. You know different, different leagues in Europe of women's soccer and you can generally get it on YouTube. There's a couple channels where you can get it, but this is all just in our lifetime.

Speaker 3: 1:27:52

Soon you'll be subscribing to X League. All of you. All of you, that's right yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:27:58

It's so interesting. All of you that's right, yeah, Well, it's so interesting because so many women's sports have. Women's soccer is the fastest growing sport in the world and it's not close for people. I've referenced this before. But just the Euros. Forget about the Women's World Cup. The Euros championship sold out six months before anybody knew it was. At Wembley stadium holds 96,000 people. The championship game, which no one knew who would be in the finals, sold out six months before the, the day that the game would be played. Uh, in 24 hours. They sold 96,000 tickets in 24 hours. Sold 96 000 tickets in 24 hours. Like if lest you have, have you missed the boat on women's soccer?

Speaker 3: 1:28:48

it it is gigantic, um oh yeah, now that one's gone, I mean openly this year, men and women, people on different networks, um people on social media roundly have said, starting out far more interested in the women's basketball tournament in terms of March Madness, far more and, if anything, that's intensified. So many dudes I'm aware of posted some version of do not bother me, on Monday night I'll be watching the Elite Eight Like in my lifetime.

Speaker 4: 1:29:29

That would have been an insane thing to hear from any guy, like for anything, the women's basketball tournament, which I fully admit I'm not into college sports so I didn't watch, but I do know. Not only did they make more money than the men's games, but it was such a big deal that they had to mention it on. Wait, wait, don't Tell Me. Sports did so big that they talked about it on NPR and therefore a nerd like me talked about it on NPR.

Speaker 3: 1:30:02

Wow, yeah, and therefore no, that is no, seriously yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:30:04

Therefore, a nerd like me heard about it.

Speaker 3: 1:30:07

Yeah, no, it's an astounding it's a cultural shift. That's incredibly important. And one of the things that drives me nuts with professional women's sports is the, the pay disparity, and that there's always some guy, um, who has stacked up the arguments of, well, their game just doesn't have as many fans. And I laugh when I see something like this, this whole March Madness situation with the women's tournament, because I'm like how big of a headstart did men's sports have? Like literally, women were punished. I can post a picture of a woman trying to run the Boston Marathon being attacked by a man and another group of men having to tackle the man who was trying to physically stop her from running the marathon because women couldn't run marathons, which you would think you'd just wait for her to pass the fuck out, if you really believe that. But whatever, and so I just that man was a visionary. The man that tried to tackle was a visionary because he knew, he saw it coming.

Speaker 2: 1:31:20

He's like holy shit.

Speaker 3: 1:31:22

Once they figure out they can finish this marathon, we are if you.

Speaker 2: 1:31:25

Let him run you pretty soon you're gonna be watching, uh, the elite eight, uh, listen jason sudeikis himself was at the game yes, uh, big iowa, big iowa fan and listen. If you may not be a sports fan we know we have a huge percentage of women who listen to the podcast and are listening to the audience but just do yourself a favor Watch, Go to YouTube, Get Caitlin Clark highlights. Paige Bickers highlights. Judy Watkins is a freshman at USC it's crazy. I do not understand the mechanics of her body. I watch her.

Speaker 3: 1:32:04

She scores points like whatever I told Daphne. A year ago she was at prom. We're watching her dominate college athletics. A year ago she was at prom To have that composure.

Speaker 2: 1:32:18

on that level she's a freshman, anyway. Whatever it's total fanboying on that level she's, she's a freshman, anyway. Whatever we're we're we're we're fan is total fanboying. But but it's it all.

Speaker 2: 1:32:26

all of the tropes about throw like a girl, fuck you like I wish I could throw these girls are amazing, um, so so, yes, uh, that is something that uh flies in the face of a? Um has been like george kartrick, who just is not with it, and and everything he says highlights that uh, so in real life, an actual example of this is uh.

Speaker 4: 1:32:51

What I do know about the the tournament is that last year there was a media dust up between angel reese and caitlin clark. We made it a much bigger deal than they did. The players were all like you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. This is fine, this is absolutely nothing. And so then, after they played a game, they gave each other a hug. This year, they knew that people were going to be watching for shit and they also knew that they needed to make sure that everybody knew that shit wasn't going to happen.

Speaker 3: 1:33:21

That was really smart.

Speaker 4: 1:33:22

Extremely smart, showing that not only do they know what they're doing on the court, but they are media savvy off the court. Like again, the kids are all right, they know what they're talking about.

Speaker 2: 1:33:31

I just can't believe women show emotional maturity.

Speaker 4: 1:33:34

That's shocking, All right all right, no, no, no, no. That is exactly what I was going for. I was about to say that, but actually in real life, on Twitter, I think it was Ben Shapiro. It might have been a different asshole If it wasn't Ben Shapiro himself. It was, you know, like interchangeable asshole here.

Speaker 2: 1:33:53

Right.

Speaker 4: 1:33:53

And that's a t-shirt I want. But he said underneath a clip of the two women hugging that's funny, of the two women hugging, that's funny. Um, uh, caitlin clark is uh better than I am. That could never be me. And somebody's immediate response was yes, ben, we know, you don't know how to play basketball I was like, yes, that's phenomenal.

Speaker 3: 1:34:13

That's phenomenal because also like, and I like we get really gone to the weeds and I will not, but all this complaining about what?

Speaker 1: 1:34:22

Angel Reese, who is black did to Kaitlyn Clark, who is white.

Speaker 3: 1:34:26

I'm like what the fuck is everybody talking about? And I'll have my opinions on sports, if nothing else. And I'm like nothing happened. Kaitlyn Clark trash talks. She lost the championship game. She got trash talked. That's how it works. I've been on a lot of basketball courts with a lot less at stake. If you talk shit, people are going to talk shit to you. It's not that deep. It's fascinating to me how people are getting into this conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:34:55

That weak-minded bigots have a radio and TV platform.

Speaker 1: 1:35:01

You just go who gives a shit.

Speaker 2: 1:35:04

I just don't care what these fucking clowns have to say. Sorry, I should be curious, not judgmental. No, no, no, not in this case.

Speaker 4: 1:35:13

We will discuss that. In fairness to Ben, I do remember that when MJ and Magic Johnson were having their rivalry, everybody made cat noises around them. The know the whole time. They're like, oh, I wonder how they're gonna get along as real people off off of the court. They obviously they were mortal enemies who hated each other and there's just no way they could be in the same room together ever. That's that's how the media played that they always, they always do it.

Speaker 1: 1:35:43

It's just people are so disappointed.

Speaker 2: 1:35:45

They're so disappointed when I remember like when tom brady and peyton manning were like joking around and uh, like somebody caught it on a video, and they're like, wait, what, they don't hate each other. Like dude, they have more in common than you have with either one of them. Like what? Uh? Uh, I mean, yeah, it's people are people are nuts. Um, eminem just put out this thing, uh, talking about Trump fooling his base, and he's like what did they think they have in common with a billionaire? He gives a shit about them. The least. I just don't. I don't understand.

Speaker 3: 1:36:17

And you're like thank, and you're like thank you If you were in a conversation with someone and they said to you my favorite thing about you is that you're uneducated. Now, I'm not saying you should disrespect somebody because they're uneducated. I am far from saying that. I know some folks who didn't graduate from shit, who I would go to for all sorts of wisdom, but it is problematic for a person to say to you my favorite thing you, you know why I love you, because you don't know much yeah, yeah, it's what it's, because in that case, uneducated isn't even.

Speaker 4: 1:36:52

This, isn't even sort of one of those. I didn't go to college because I wanted to learn other things, or I wanted to do other things right. What he means is gullible what I like about you is that you're gullible, and that isn't something that a person who respects you says this this is.

Speaker 2: 1:37:05

This is talk about being polar opposites. The entire we talk about this journey that we've been on with ted lasso. The best thing that's come out of it are the buttercups are is the listener community are people who are really engaged and really care and really smart and and are totally invested in all the topics that we talk about. Um, it's the opposite of that. And and why would you want anything? But can you imagine if we're like oh, our listening is a bunch of dummies? It's the total opposite. The, the introspection and the, the desire to make up the world a better place, and and all the wonderful qualities that Ted Lasso promotes, is what brought everybody here. I just don't get the alternative Strange.

Speaker 3: 1:37:50

So I've been for a number again, a number of reasons, but I ended up watching how to Become a Cult Leader, which is a Netflix documentary about cult leaders, and it's very interestingly done because it is presented tongue-in-cheek. Obviously they don't want you to kill people, uh, or have them kill themselves, but but tongue-in-cheek is presented as like a primer, like so you want to be a cult leader? Huh, well, you got to make sure to do this and don't do that, which I thought okay clever, you know, like, all right, you know, how do you, how do you tell us, in a way that might be a little unexpected, totally got it so, um, so, one of the things that was how much energy is devoted to eliminating individuation. Right, dress like this. We all do this, we all eat this, we all go here, we all say this. This is basic tribalism.

Speaker 2: 1:39:00

Nos versus them.

Speaker 3: 1:39:00

Right and it's right, it's basic tribalism, us versus them, right, and it's an active erosion, right, of any individualism. And if you think about brown shirts, if you think about right like there's all sorts of things that we do, like that Great, great, great great, as we're all wearing the same jersey, right, right. And I think I've had more than one person in my lifetime sometimes jokingly, sometimes just talking about life say to me like you can start a cult about me, and I'm like I get why they say that Other people have said, oh, you'd be a good preacher, you could start a church. My grandfather started two churches, right, so I get why people say that to me. But here's the thing about me that means, as far as my understanding of how starting a church works, why me starting a church would be a horrible idea. My goal is to free you.

Speaker 3: 1:39:54

If there's something I really have in common with Ted Lasso is I don't want you to be me. I don't even want you to be who I need you to be so I can get where the fuck I'm going. I want you to realize you fully. I want to free you. And George Kartrick doesn't want to free you. George Kartrick is like men do this, women do that, don't mix it up. No nail polish, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3: 1:40:23

Like the people in the story who opened up what it can mean, like George Kartrick also he, I mean, we know that it was kind of a mistake, but he never gets to having the magical experience of Ted Lasso as a coach in any part of his life because all he can see is a coach looks like this and a coach talks like that and a coach right. But what happens when we open up like okay, sure, or what, how would Ted Lasso coach a premier league football team? And that's what I work with my, my clients, with a lot. From very early on, before I even had a client, I knew that one of our philosophical statements was we don't want to find the right strategy, we want to find the right strategy for you. And a lot of this talk around gender and all these things and boxing people in, I'm like no, no, no. I just feel like that's a rule of thumb you could take with you is if you feel less free, get out of there.

Speaker 2: 1:41:34

Yeah, the worst cult ever is the cult of Coach Bishop. Everybody's got to do it. Everybody's just self-actualizing all over the place and leaving and traveling the world. This is awful. I love that your grandfather started two churches. One wasn't good enough. Yeah yeah, we're going to have to hear that story someday. I don't know about this first one. How fucked up are we?

Speaker 1: 1:42:01

They're off the rails.

Speaker 2: 1:42:09

All right, they're all thrilled, all right. Well, so so we get a, we get a night. All that we're saying about george karchick is is encapsulated by chris kamara, who says I miss well done. Yeah, I miss right, um, which is which we all miss roy on that show. He was, he was, uh, he was just, he was just great.

Speaker 3: 1:42:22

Jeff Stelling. But even that right. He was like I'm not going to be a commentator, I'm going to be Roy Kent and I'm going to. That's what Roy Kent as a commentator looks like.

Speaker 2: 1:42:32

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:42:32

You're Roy fucking.

Speaker 2: 1:42:33

Kent, right, you're not just this, this pundit that you know, empty baloney. All the time, platitudes with nothing behind it. How the fuck are we supposed to know what they're going through? He probably 17 years old. He probably went home and had a wank, like how the fuck right, how is he supposed to know? Um, and then we cut to where we are in the uh, the flat of ted lasso one, uh, ted lasso, if you guys remember, remember that gentleman, and he's listening to this whole thing. And oh, is it Jeff that said I miss Roy? I'm sorry, I said it was Chris. I'm very sorry. It was Jeff who said I miss Roy.

Speaker 3: 1:43:15

Yeah, directly to camera. It's very yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:43:17

Really good, really good. Um, we get the uh, the, the uh, wonderful shot of uh ted sitting down with, um uh, like the giant weed, a mix chunk or whatever that comes out, one chunk of cereal. Uh, it's a great gag. Uh, boss, were you gonna say something about that?

Speaker 4: 1:43:37

oh, and no, just that. I definitely used to eat the giant shredded weed pillows like, not the little ones. The bigger ones were better because they were softer somehow, while still being crunchy they weren't as stale. The smaller ones get stale.

Speaker 2: 1:43:52

I haven't been to Europe for a while, but I remember traveling Europe extensively when I was younger and you would find these everywhere, those big. I thought they were good, whatever, oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:44:02

Yeah, they were bad. We had those in Chicago. You don't need to go to fucking Europe for that, they just had them at the Jewel.

Speaker 2: 1:44:08

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course, the Jewel I love the Jewel. Now Ted is sitting down with a. It looks like to me he's got a bottled milk, which I'm like oh is there? Is there bottled milk delivery Like glass bottled milk in? That's really fancy you can get it here.

Speaker 3: 1:44:23

I assumed that was a thing.

Speaker 2: 1:44:24

Yeah, I don't know. Our friends in the UK will have to tell us. I know that when they used to say we were growing up, they'd say the food pyramid, which has been utterly discredited. But they used to say a breakfast of juice, toast milk and blah, blah, blah and juice, toast milk and uh and uh. And then it was a thing in my family where we would be like my mom. My mom would always be like do not mix acids and dairy, like that's insane people who drink. Um, that's only just us. Huh, okay, that's funny, I want. That's why I brought it up. Um, it's not just her. I've heard it like in in many places where like do not drink juice. And it's not just her. I've heard it like in many places where like do not drink juice, and it's like beer and liquor, like they're not good in your stomach.

Speaker 4: 1:45:06

But okay, that's not, that's just yeah, what sort of like your Greek constitutions will not allow for that.

Speaker 2: 1:45:12

I think it's mostly the the, if I had to guess there's. So there's a high percentage of lactose intolerant people in Southern Europe.

Speaker 4: 1:45:23

And southern europe and I'm guessing, you know, I'm guessing it's mostly the milk, but this might shock you but the irish can drink motor oil and be fine. I mean we like made whiskey.

Speaker 3: 1:45:29

So obviously we don't care about ourselves and our bodies I mean motor oil, a whole car bomb, am I right?

Speaker 4: 1:45:37

yeah, although jesus christ apparently we need to call him something else now, but I will say I'm the racist one. I will, I will. I will again mention one of the rules that the boyfriend came up with was if they are visibly, visibly Irish or Italian, it's okay to hate them. In those cases it's fine. That's a very, very specific thing. Wow, If you could tell they're from the Jersey Shore, you could be like, oh okay, you don't have to hate them, but it's fine If they have a blowout.

Speaker 3: 1:46:13

If you do, then we'll just roll with it.

Speaker 4: 1:46:16

Conan O'Brien you're allowed to be racist against Conan O'Brien, that's fine. He is 100% Irish. People in Ireland are not 100% Irish. You can make fun of that, motherfucker. It's fine. It is the last bastion of racism.

Speaker 2: 1:46:32

Irish and Italians.

Speaker 3: 1:46:34

It's true, conan O'Brien. I want to come back to that Italian thing, because last football season some shit went down that I thought was amazing. But Conan O'Brien is so aware of the dynamic you're describing and leans into it so fucking hard oh, he is his he may be the first man at Crush Brunch I might put it out there maybe he's so god damn funny.

Speaker 1: 1:47:00

if you get a chance to watch him visiting, I might put it out there. Maybe His sense of humor is so funny.

Speaker 3: 1:47:01

He's so goddamn funny to me If you get a chance to watch him visiting Alvin Ailey. Okay, I mean, you just have to watch it. I could describe it, but why would I ruin something that is perfect?

Speaker 2: 1:47:20

Share it in the community site. But also we did talk about last, the Italian of what we talked about it on the show.

Speaker 3: 1:47:26

I think we must have. Oh did we?

Speaker 2: 1:47:28

New York giants who oh?

Speaker 3: 1:47:30

my God, and they would just like him. And all over sports media People think he's like really stereotypical comments and I was like we're good with this and it seemed like I guess we're good with it, Like no one I didn't see a single think piece, nothing.

Speaker 2: 1:47:45

I was like wow, like, I mean really like cringe inducing comments, and no one gave irish and italians, the one bastion of racism left where you can just make fun of ir and Italians. I'm not advocating it, I'm just saying that's the. For some reason.

Speaker 4: 1:48:05

It seems to be it feels like in this different way, especially the fact that in the US the Irish and the Italians have done fairly well, especially in bigger cities. Boston and Chicago is where the Irish and the Italians come from. It's just who we are. It feels a little bit more like Castleton you one time mentioned, like a platonic idea of making a racial joke that isn't racist. We're like if you say this is something that everyone from Iowa does and you could somehow take any negative connotations out of it. If it's like Italians love meatball subs, well, well, there's no danger to that and there's no degradation to that. That's like the irish shouldn't eat so many potatoes and we're like, fuck you, we fucking love our potatoes, we'll eat whatever the fuck we want. So I I do think that in these two cases, when it's like a mario, mario and luigi joke, it's so harmless that you're kind of like, no, that doesn't, nope, nope, no, you can't, you can't actually be upset about that.

Speaker 2: 1:49:06

Yeah we got to get to the point, that's the point we got to get to Go ahead, Coach.

Speaker 3: 1:49:10

No, no, I'm going to confess like full ADHD now. But you mentioned potatoes and that made me think potato famine and this was something I saw. I'm serious that I saw that really blew my mind and I wish I could remember who said it. I'll try to find it. But they said well, first of all they I saw the explanation of the potato famine wasn't just some like natural thing that happened, like that was done it was done to the irish and then someone said about famine more generally we say famine because it rolls off the tongue much easier than genocide.

Speaker 3: 1:49:46

Yes, and I was like I need a motherfucking nap.

Speaker 1: 1:49:50

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:49:51

Because I couldn't think of a single instance in. I'll put it this way during my lifetime, I'll put it I'll create that border for myself where that wasn't true, where clearly there's enough food globally and somehow we're watching flies land on people's faces and and and acting like we feel sad, but not quite sad enough to not let it happen.

Speaker 4: 1:50:18

Yeah, yeah. And just to be clear, in case none of the listeners are fully aware, when we say that the potato famine was done to Ireland and there was a potato blight, but then England was like, hey, ireland, give us all your food. And Ireland was like, well, we don't fucking have any.

Speaker 4: 1:50:35

And they're like yeah, send us all your sheep and all your food and give us some money and you guys don't have anything, but that's not our problem. You still need to send us all that. So it was. There was an actual disease that affected the potatoes, but then everything else after that was man-made. So you can't just be like, oh the poor irish, what bad luck it's like. Well, being massively oppressed isn't actually bad luck. That's a systemic thing. Yeah, tough break. No, tough break. Tough break us. Uh, trying to kill your people off, that's uh bad luck. That's a systemic thing.

Speaker 3: 1:51:02

Tough break, tough break us trying to kill your people off. That's wild.

Speaker 4: 1:51:08

And one fucking last thing before we move any further. The thing that I've seen a lot is, especially online, people saying the Irish were slaves, and you don't see them complaining about it. Number one not in the same way, Not the same thing. Let's not compare that. Number two not in the same way, Not the same thing. Let's not compare that. Number two have you met an Irish person? Have you met an Irish American person? It is fucking all they talk about. They talk about it all the goddamn time. We talk all the fucking time about how much we hate England. I don't know my grandparents Like I fucking don't know anybody that was injured by the English, actually but my family will still bitch about them. So, anyway, that's it. It's everything I got to say about the Irish.

Speaker 2: 1:51:49

Okay, love it. So Ted is watching this, turns it off. His phone dings right away. I love this because right away, it's his foundational support structure. Rebecca, aka DeBoss. Ted fuck the haters. Call if you need anything right away. It's his foundational support structure. Rebecca, aka Da Boss. Ted fuck the haters. Call if you need anything right away. 8.11 in the morning. We see right on his phone this is great. We get an audio message from Dr Sharon. Oh yeah, I got to waste my time listening to you because you can't fucking type Dr Sharon.

Speaker 3: 1:52:23

Typical, typical selfish. Dr Sharon maneuver, I was just talking about you and the audio messages the other day. I think it's phenomenal. We should do a special episode anyway, go ahead I can't take it.

Speaker 2: 1:52:31

Coach, sends me audio messages um dr sharon, um ted presses play, holds it up, uh, just sitting by himself at his table. Hi ted, remember, the truth will set you free, but but first, what will it do, coach?

Speaker 3: 1:52:45

First, it will piss you off. That is grounded in philosophy, and I'm going to find the right quote, as one does. I watched a two and a half hour documentary on the history of philosophy for the past 2,500 years over the weekend and it came up, and I will remember which famous philosopher put that idea forth Love it.

Speaker 2: 1:53:06

Thank you, coach, I'm here if you want to talk. Good luck this weekend. Dr Sharon says, and if you remember, he stole her move last episode. He chewed and screwed, so to speak. He left her with a beer with shit in it and may make it for her. There's one without any shit in it, um, which is so funny. Um, then we get um, uh, lastly, uh, ted is he's about to go pour some, uh, some some of his bottled milk. Glass. Bottled milk just seems like such a luxury.

Speaker 3: 1:53:44

It seems like such a I looked it up as of 2023, it was a declining thing, but a. Thing.

Speaker 4: 1:53:52

Would you prefer your milk in bags, the way that the Canadians do?

Speaker 2: 1:53:59

We'll need Jeff to yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:54:02

King of the Buttercups to confirm that you got the?

Speaker 2: 1:54:06

Oh, you put the milk there in the bag. I've never actually I didn't know the Canadians put the milk in the bag.

Speaker 4: 1:54:14

I choose to believe that it can't possibly be true. I need it to be debunked.

Speaker 2: 1:54:19

For me, it can't possibly A bag, jeff Send up the bat signal for me it can't possibly A bag A bag.

Speaker 2: 1:54:23

Send up the bat signal for Jeff. I don't know. Once upon a time we used to, when I was a kid, we had milk in bottles and it was like a fancy thing that we got. It wasn't like actually. I think it was cheaper that way somehow, and we would recycle the bottles and it was a better world, better world. Ah God, I wish we could make America great again. Oh, all that nostalgia. It's such a drug, no, but it did. But milk and bottles, it tasted better somehow. But so Ted goes to pour and then he puts it back down because his phone dings and, lo and behold, who is it?

Speaker 4: 1:55:01

boss Michelle saying hi, puts it back down because his phone dings and lo and behold, who is it A boss, michelle Saying hi, ted saw the news hope you're okay, right, michelle Lasso?

Speaker 3: 1:55:09

I think it's so powerful that he has three the three women in his life is that support network you mentioned. This is huge and we sort of watched by season how they play through. You know, through the seasons how they play into life.

Speaker 2: 1:55:22

It's a big deal when you, when you can ice, like, when you understand what represents your foundational structure in your life and for anyone listening, take a step back and think about your foundational structure, just say, like, who are the, the key players uh, in my life? And and um, it says a lot. What's interesting is Ted still has not, he's still struggling with Michelle being the key foundational support and so. But even in the course of this, we see how that plays out. So, boss, walk us through this. What does he text?

Speaker 4: 1:56:00

He immediately texts knock, knock, because why wouldn't he? And she, of course, answers who's there because she's willing to play along. And then he writes you're up. And she says you're up who? And he says you're up late. Now number one. I just had to say the phrase you're up who. That's kind of how it came out. You're up who. Just had to say the phrase you're a poo. That, that's kind of how it came out. You're a poo, at which. I would also like to mention the time that I can't remember why it was the way that it was, but my entire family was talking and my mom, like, crouched down to get a child, maybe because we had a lot of those around, and my older sister was saying mom, you're a pan, you're a pan. And my stepdad, the only funny time he said anything funny in his whole life, said oh no, she just looks like that. So that was a similar joke. It wasn't bad, it wasn't the worst thing he's ever done.

Speaker 3: 1:56:52

I'll take it. I'll take it.

Speaker 4: 1:56:54

But yeah, so Europe late.

Speaker 2: 1:56:58

Yeah, that's not bad for An asshole. A heroin addict yeah, not bad for An asshole.

Speaker 1: 1:57:08

A heroin addict, I'm much more talented with magic.

Speaker 3: 1:57:12

Watch me make this clarinet disappear For those listening, Boss's stepfather once hawked her clarinet.

Speaker 4: 1:57:23

Oh sorry, no, not once. Multiple times yes.

Speaker 3: 1:57:29

I didn't remember that. I think I'm like all right, that's enough trauma, we got it, we got it. We got the fucking point here with the goddamn trauma, sorry about that Multiple times.

Speaker 4: 1:57:41

Yeah, no, but not bad for a heroin addict. Should be a t-shirt also.

Speaker 2: 1:57:45

No. So yeah, right, for sure, not bad at all. You're up late, and then she writes what boss.

Speaker 4: 1:57:54

She starts writing something and then the bubbles disappear.

Speaker 2: 1:57:58

I know this is right. Before that she wrote ha ha, you're obviously fine.

Speaker 4: 1:58:02

Oh, yes, yes, yes, haha, you're obviously fine. Now here's where he writes he writes, so it's a late night or an early morning, then she starts with the bubbles and then they disappear, and then he remembers the boundaries and he says, oh, actually that's none of my business.

Speaker 2: 1:58:20

We get like a reaction shot of his face where he's like, oh, actually, that's none of my business. We get like a reaction shot of his face where he's like oh shit, oh shit. And what is he right now?

Speaker 4: 1:58:28

I think that's when he just writes sorry, none of my business, None of my beeswax. Sorry, none of my beeswax. Thanks for reaching out. And she gives it the heart.

Speaker 3: 1:58:39

So I thought it was interesting in a couple of directions. Yes, we are not like we had a, a split second of it, probably feeling like we were being who we were. So you just went with that and I get it interestingly. Early morning or late night does not mean who you've been fucking necessarily. So it was kind for me. It was a little bit like yeah, maybe just stay clear of it all ted, but I don't know. It felt a little to me like it wasn't I don't know, I didn't. The him saying early morning or late night didn't make me think, oh, he's trying to figure out who's sleeping in her bed and I guess I'm curious if that came through to either of you. After she reacted I thought or you know the bubbles and all that I thought, but I didn't take it like that out of the gate no, I think it was more so.

Speaker 4: 1:59:43

It could imply that and that was the part that was slightly over the mountain for her that whatever it was that she was up late for or early for, if it had been regarding henry, they would have discussed that.

Speaker 2: 1:59:57

If it was something else, maybe it isn't his business and that's just why he says not my b-specs yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, it's true, and when you're with someone long enough, you know their pattern, so you'd be like, oh damn, wow, she's up late, like atypical or whatever. Um, he puts the phone down. They intentionally do an insert of, uh, the trent crim article. Uh, his byline is there. Ted lasso reported to have left the pitch due to food poisoning. Now sources claim panic attack was reason behind exit. Got a picture in the insert of Ted looking like he's holding in gas. Not a flattering, not the most flattering picture of poor old, sweet Ted Lasso.

Speaker 3: 2:00:37

I think the Henry wallpaper also matters. That used to be a picture of Michelle and Henry, so as much as he hasn't perfected it, he has moved on.

Speaker 2: 2:00:46

Right, we get a moment of him taking a breath. Right, and he's a big exhale and he's on it, leaves his flat. Now we get a matching. We know what this used to be right, this used to be a upbeat walk. There was wankers sometimes, sometimes after he won a victory, this walk through the alley behind his flat, it could be pleasant, it could be tacky when he first got there, but it generally serves to inform the viewer as to the interiority of Ted's state of mind and also how it's being perceived publicly, generally by the chorus. He walks out and what does he find waiting for him there, boss?

Speaker 4: 2:01:37

A couple of, I guess, paparazzi, although it seems weird.

Speaker 2: 2:01:40

Just two guys taking this picture, two professional photographers taking this picture yeah, he says hey, fellas, and they get a good picture of him, I guess, looking surprised. Uh, they say, yeah, good, one walks away, they got. They got what they needed, apparently. And he's like huh watches them go. He's centered in frame, um, and once he gets past this sort of intrusion he walks in. There's a store owner setting up the sandwich board outside of Chango. Ted knows her name, of course, because he's like Elaine Bennis and knows wasn't it Elaine's? Who was it? No, it was Elaine, who knows everybody's name. I'm trying to think which. No, I guess it wasn't Elaine.

Speaker 4: 2:02:26

Are you talking about Seinfeld? Because nobody.

Speaker 3: 2:02:28

Yeah, I don't remember that about Seinfeld. No, maybe I got it wrong.

Speaker 2: 2:02:30

But I remember one character where they were arguing about somebody. Yeah, obviously you know their names.

Speaker 3: 2:02:38

Or maybe it was Kramer, but otherwise, Of any of them he would. Yeah, I wouldn't be lying.

Speaker 2: 2:02:42

That's crazy. Anyway, he says hello, good morning Susan. She says oh, are you all right, ted? And he says yes, ma'am. And she says, are you sure about that? And that was cold-blooded, okay. He walks by another man reading the Star Sport we know a star who made a lot of fun of it Is Ted dead in the head Reads the big front page headline. I liked panic at the lasso. I thought that was really good.

Speaker 3: 2:03:12

That felt like a real headline.

Speaker 2: 2:03:15

Yeah, lasso suffering panic attacks. It's just everywhere. He's like, oh shit. He walks out past, uh, the, the iconic, uh british toll booth not told with phone booth, uh, uh, the all red phone booth. Some people stare at him, turn around, look behind him.

Speaker 2: 2:03:32

I just kept thinking god, that guy needs a trim um, just a real thick beard and yeah, so just just a little, just a little trim a little bit off the edge, um, but he, uh, he's like jesus christ, he's, he's just man, a lot of people aware of it and he turns and low and looking for beard, which is where they meet, and, um, you know, sort of there to save him, of course. Uh, we hear, hey, coach. And back to the iconic bench there next to the phone booth. Beard hands him, uh, his coffee.

Speaker 3: 2:04:07

We know it's not tea, and they do what here, coach they do their ritual of uh cheers, tap glass on table in this case coffee cups and then they cheers one more time, clink one more time, but it's paper cups, and then they have their first sip of coffee. And then we have our, uh, our old buddy.

Speaker 2: 2:04:31

Uh, with the inside jokes the wanker, the guy that calls him a wanker. And what does he say, coach?

Speaker 3: 2:04:36

hey, wanker, if my father had a panic attack at normandy, we'd all be speaking german, right, and he walks off, right. So a little card trick. But then and ted to his credit, because I, I assure you, my response would not have been yes, sir, um to his credit, just sort of you think, let's that ride. And then um, but the guy turned back and he says just do the work, pal, you'll be all right. And I almost feel like the fact that Ted didn't say ah, fuck off, or whatever it might have been, or you know, signal to this guy, like maybe he's really not all right, like I thought I was just going to bust his balls, but maybe he's really not all right. And I like that moment and I like separating this character from Kartrick in this specific way, like there's an underlying humanity.

Speaker 2: 2:05:32

Yeah, I think you read that right. The guy was surprised by that reaction. Turns around and says just do the work, pal, you'll be alright. And gives him a thumbs up and then walks away. It got me, I'm actually right now. Just do the work, pal, you'll be right. And give him a thumbs up and then walks away.

Speaker 2: 2:05:42

I, it got me, I'm. I'm actually right now, even I'm just misty over. So I'm like oh, it's such a nice because that guy's such a, it's such a shitty old fucker like you know, hey, wanker, but he's like, okay. And then then you get like a a tiny glimmer of actual life wisdom from a guy who's probably lived it in a thousand ways and has internalized it and masks every day and has comported himself the way society wants him to comport himself and and you know, you know, sort of does everything inside the lines. That might be the first time somebody motivated him to actually turn and say, like something that actually matters, that's not like just do the work Like. You know what I mean, you'll be okay, is is, uh, it's beautiful, I thought.

Speaker 3: 2:06:29

I think to the the, the sort of. We have two pretty military not allegory whatever two military points that are made around this anxiety thing. And one of my favorite uh war movie moments ever actually is in saving private ryan. They're heading in beaches, they're gonna storm the beaches and somebody pisses on themselves and I was like, yeah, doesn't mean I'm gonna turn around, doesn't mean I'm gonna jump in the water, it doesn't mean I'm going to jump in the water, it doesn't mean whatever. But I don't know how you could be headed in a vehicle toward all them bombs and bullets and just be like men, men, like what? No, fuck you. There's no way. There's no way.

Speaker 2: 2:07:16

But specifically in England and growing up I had a British friend who would tell me about all this stuff. England and I had, I had a growing up. I had a british friend who would tell me about all this stuff. He's like, oh no, the way we we adopted this ethos was because we, we were fighting against the french for so long and the french are known to have wear their emotions on their sleeve and it would disgust us as right. This is what he would say, this is what historically, where it came from, I'm not boss is throwing throwing her head back and she's like, oh, this is horrifying, but this is the origin of the self-control.

Speaker 2: 2:07:45

So I remember him showing me this and I've mentioned it for sure, maybe in season one, but it always cracks me up. He's like you will not believe this shit, how the lengths we're supposed to go to comport ourselves and not show emotion Because we want to be less French. And he showed me this war movie. It was like right after World War II, a guy's in a tank and the Nazi bombers come in and blow a whole line of tanks to smithereens and one guy and only two of the 12 men or 15 men in the tank get out and they run and dive into a ditch and covered in blood and mud and barely escaped their lives the only two that made it. And one of the guys turns to the guy next to him and says I say that was a bit uncomfortable, wasn't it? Now, chap, is it supposed to?

Speaker 4: 2:08:39

be a joke. Is it supposed to be a joke?

Speaker 2: 2:08:41

It wasn't supposed to be a joke. It supposed to be a joke, it wasn't supposed to be a joke.

Speaker 2: 2:08:43

It was like they're playing it straight and you're like oh my god. But so I'm not saying this is alive and well in england, on the same and anywhere near the same level. People see through that that. You know it's ridiculous. But you know the? The man is a personification of two different, competing ways of operating the wanker guy. You know he, he's going to giveification of two different competing ways of operating the wanker guy. You know he, he's going to give you shit, he's going to razz you old school. But then when he saw that, you know ted didn't, whatever it was like ah, fuck you, you old bastard. You know that would coach says. What would you have said, coach? You wouldn't have taken it kindly, you'd have been like you know what like yeah, fuck fuck off.

Speaker 2: 2:09:22

But he didn't. He just said yes, sir, which means he's like oh man, he's in a different place. Anyway, it gives him a little pep talk. I thought it was nice.

Speaker 3: 2:09:30

Also, to some degree does it mean I may agree with you and maybe that makes it less fun. You know what I mean the fact that if you give me shit about a panic attack and I go go fuck yourself, you know whatever, then we're kind of doing a thing. But if I, but if somehow my response signals I too think maybe I'm not worthy or I'm not man enough or I'm thinking it through, that I, you know, I could see where, like, oh well, now the fun's out of it. Like I thought.

Speaker 2: 2:09:58

I was gonna, yeah, do this thing with you, right? It's less of it. Like I thought I was going to do this thing with you, right?

Speaker 4: 2:10:03

It's less of a dance Right, right, exactly, there's no bantering to it.

Speaker 4: 2:10:07

It's um again. Angels in America. Uh, it's no fun teasing you. You're like throwing darts at Jell-O. So it's all fluff, nothing sticks Um. But I think that the fact that he said we'd all be speaking German is so important because we change how we view people. Living in the past, we think that they think of themselves as how we view them, so we think, oh, they didn't have. We didn't used to talk about panic attacks. So nobody had panic attacks Like their panic attacks. Allergies weren't a thing when my grandmother was a child, she, she didn't know anybody about them?

Speaker 4: 2:10:48

I'm like no, you just knew kids who had dropped dead at parties because somebody had a peanut. Like the fuck are you talking about? Obviously these things existed, you just didn't know or talk about them. Those are different things. People were having panic attacks they were absolutely having panic attacks.

Speaker 4: 2:11:04

It's just you called them tremors or shell-shocked or anything besides what they actually are, and didn't talk about them and told people that they were bad. So like this, when people say these things, I'm like well, oh, you didn't know any trans kids? Well, they existed. We would just ship them off places and hype them because we used to be assholes. Like that is what's happening here 100.

Speaker 2: 2:11:29

well, you know, oh you english are so superior. Uh, it calls back to mind the fantastic, oscar-winning role of kevin klein in a fish called wanda, where he says you know where you'd be. That's when I heard like you know where you'd be without the good old US of A lady, the biggest fucking island in the German Empire, it just uh. So it's so good, it is so good. If people have not seen A Fish Called Wanda, kevin Kline's performance, I'm sure it's offensive beyond.

Speaker 3: 2:11:59

I haven't seen it in decades. I'm sure it's offensive beyond. I haven't seen it in decades. I'm sure it is, because I remember it being edgy. So I'm wondering. I can't even think of what, but I bet there's some jokes in there, there's a couple, but it's still.

Speaker 2: 2:12:11

It's still. Listen. As for John Cleese and Kevin Kline arguing, and Kevin Kline says you shithead, asshole, fuckhead, ass, whatever. And John Cleese says to him oh my God, you're a true Bulgarian, aren't you? And he goes you're the Bulgarian, you fuck.

Speaker 3: 2:12:32

I love that joke. You can tell me that joke in a thousand different forms.

Speaker 2: 2:12:36

I will laugh at you, it's like true love. You're the Bulgarianian comma, you fuck is it is, it is mastery. I just, oh, I love it so much I can't, I can hardly breathe. Um, anyway, uh, beard being beard, does what best friends do. Doesn't say a word, goes like this little thing with his head for those who can't, uh, it's an audio platform and he just goes like, rolls his head aside Like hey, let's, let's, let's, let's screw, let's get out of here, let's bolt, let's walk to work. Um, they get up and Ted, uh, uh, you know, does this thing where, um, he says, do you see it there?

Speaker 4: 2:13:16

I yep no, he says nope sorry, hold on.

Speaker 2: 2:13:31

No, no, no, sorry, sorry, my fault, technical issues folks sorry about that.

Speaker 4: 2:13:36

So Beard says I assume you know sorry. Ted says I assume you know what that was Sorry. Ted says I assume you know what that was all about. And Beard's response is nope, yeah, nope.

Speaker 2: 2:13:49

And as they walk away, what do we see?

Speaker 4: 2:13:51

Oh, the newspaper in Beard's back pocket folded weirdly so that we could see that of course he knows what he's talking about. But until Ted wants to talk about it, beard isn't going to push it.

Speaker 3: 2:14:02

I actually yes, and I would add to it Beard knows Ted needs to talk about it now, and saying yes, I know, cuts into Ted's ability, ted's opportunity to talk. So I think we, we, we, we got an intro to this after.

Speaker 4: 2:14:23

Sassy yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 3: 2:14:30

I never want to talk about this again. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I slept with Sassy last night. Want to talk about it Absolutely. And so I think that's Ted and I definitely appreciate that, because that is 100% Orlando and I literally called someone I work with this morning specifically to say that I've been thinking about something in my life and just needed to talk about it out loud. The actual setup for the conversation. So I I get it I love it.

Speaker 2: 2:14:57

Uh, we're gonna, we're gonna end there for today. Um, we made it five minutes, five, five, whole minutes. We're very proud, but we got through the end.

Speaker 1: 2:15:06

All they do is they roll, they roll.

Speaker 2: 2:15:08

We go right to the credits and then we'll pick it up after the credits. Coach, where do people find you? If they want to find you?

Speaker 3: 2:15:17

They find me in our community Become a buttercup. I mean, come on, where else are you going to just instant gratification get? Alvin Ailey welcomes Conan O'Brien. I'll tell you where In our community. Come on in, enjoy it.

Speaker 2: 2:15:38

Boss, what about you, Voss?

Speaker 4: 2:15:40

what about you? You can mostly find me online at Threads, which is emilychambers.31. Also at Blue Sky, which is Emily Chambers, also joining the communities and not joining. Getting back into the community site more than I have been. Definitely need to do that.

Speaker 2: 2:16:04

And going to the antagonist to possibly write. Definitely read which is antagonistblogcom. Okay, well, that's it for us today. Folks, it is heartwarming to be on the final episode of Ted Lasso. For what it's worth, we're going to finish this episode, and however many pieces that Coach can engineer it to be, but we will always refer back to it. It is our first love when it comes to this format and even for those of you who are listening to our Wayne coverage, we always bring it back to comparisons with Ted Lasso. So even when it goes away, it never really goes away. I want to thank everybody for listening, but I want to send a special shout out to one of our dear Buttercups, kim. You're on our minds, you're on our thoughts, and Kim's going through a little bit of a tough time, but she is tough and resilient and just such such an inspiration. Um and um.

Speaker 2: 2:17:10

Yeah, it's uh you know, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna get through this and everything's going to work out. So, um, we're honored to have you as a buttercup and we appreciate you more than you know.

Speaker 3: 2:17:27

If I may, coach Please, there's something worse, kim, than being sad, and that's being sad and alone. And you, my friend, are not alone.

Speaker 2: 2:17:41

Well said, well said, absolutely right. Okay, thank you everybody. Before I get too choked up, I'm going to call it here. Please support your local libraries in the written word. Until next time we are.

Speaker 3: 2:18:01

Richmond Till we Die, that's good enough Good enough for today. I feel like it's been a few in a row here.

Speaker 2: 2:18:10

Can't always be. Sometimes you just hit singles Just got to get people on base.

Speaker 3: 2:18:14

That's true, move them along, move them along.