A Very Special Episode - Bear vs. Man

The Tedcast is a deep dive podcast exploring the masterpiece that is Ted Lasso on Apple TV+.

Sponsored by Pajiba and The Antagonist, join Boss Emily Chambers and Coaches Bishop and Castleton as they ruminate on all things AFC Richmond.

Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop
Coach Castleton

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso Talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the Lasso Way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 2: 0:40

Okay, welcome back, beautiful people. Today we are discussing Wayne, Episode 9,. Thought we Was Friends. I am your host, Coach Castleton. With me, as always, is Coach Bishop.

Speaker 3: 0:52

Man, I thought we was friends. You're taking me through a lot of shit over here.

Speaker 2: 0:57

Heavy-duty stuff Coach, and with us is our boss, Emily Chambers.

Speaker 4: 1:02

I did have the thought over the weekend while thinking about this, because this is all I do with my life now is think about TV shows that we record podcasts about as your issue Is that I believe, if you like somebody, you could be blind to the abuse that they do to other people.

Speaker 4: 1:31

That is the conclusion that I've come to. I think that you think you see goodness in them, and I believe you are refusing to see the bad in them, and so that's where some of our especially around Maureen, our fighting comes down to.

Speaker 2: 1:44

Yeah, right, right comes down to yeah Right, right, right, yeah, no, no, you may be.

Speaker 4: 1:52

Oh, I'm 100% right about it. I'm absolutely right.

Speaker 2: 1:55

No, well, no, the plot's going to thicken a little bit with that. But I was watching Brockmire and I came to this. I was watching this episode of Brockmire and I came to this. I was watching this episode of Brockmire where he's about to get this job. He's about to beat out Raj for the job with, I think, the the I thought it was, I don't think it was the, it was some Chicago maybe. Anyway, it was. It was one of the. It was a big baseball job and Brockmire is going for the announcing gig. It's between him and another announcer of Indian ancestry and Raj is beating him in every category with every demo.

Speaker 2: 2:38

And Brockmire finds out right at the last minute, when the old guy is going to retire, that the old guy is an unrepentant bigot. And I was like I had to turn it off because the conflict was about to come. I'm not. I'm not conflict averse. We've talked about this. Growing up in a family, a lot of conflict. I'm not conflict averse. But I was like what's he gonna do right here? So he's gonna, he's gonna out this guy.

Speaker 2: 3:02

Like part of my brain is like just let the old piece of shit go and move on to a better world Right. And I was like boss would say no, no, you have to. You have one chance to out this guy so that everywhere he goes, everyone knows he's a bigot. Like don't let him ride off into the sunset. And I'm like, so I was like thinking about that distinction. I was like, well, I think a big part of it is like whether or not you can pull off. You know, whether I think you can believably pull off outing him appropriately. You're like, of course, duh right. And I was like the faster you can get these people out of the public eye, the more efficiently to remove them. The world's full of bigots. Let's move one of them out into the, get them out to pasture as fast as possible so they can't hurt anybody else. And you're like, yeah, that's right, but they can't –'t do it without them also being able to hide their bigotry.

Speaker 4: 4:07

Yeah, I don't see any conflict between the idea of putting them out to pasture and calling them out. You could do both. You could easily do both. Yeah, I don't see what the harm in calling them out for that is.

Speaker 2: 4:22

No, no, there is no harm. Was like thinking. Literally it's like an efficiency thing, it's like how you know, it's like a bigot removal tool, like we know they're there. How do we remove the bigots and how fast can we get all the bigots shot into space?

Speaker 4: 4:34

um and um, and whether so, without calling them bigots and without telling other people that you're doing it because they're bigots, well it's like just figuring out a different.

Speaker 2: 4:44

I was like, if it's more efficient, how do you? It was like an efficiency thing. It's like how quickly can we get this fucking guy off the air? And then, but there's this other element where it's like, no, it's really important to identify the bigot publicly so that that bigot cannot the bigot will be appropriately shunned as he goes out the door. Yeah, no, no, I really like that. But I notice it's not part of my natural ethos because I go, oh, just get this guy. Like let's just, you know whatever. But I knew that you would take the position of yeah, let's also do that. Now. Today we're going to talk about Thought. We Was Friends. Do that. Now. Today we're going to talk about Thought. We Was Friends. Right now there's a. There is a.

Speaker 2: 5:39

I'm coming off a little bit of a high because I spent the weekend in Los Angeles and I was at a party where, well, not one party, but I was at one of the evenings. I was in los angeles, I was at a party and having a great time, and somebody taps me on the shoulder and I turn around and it is my boy coach and and it's a totally different thing. It's like, uh, it's like it's so funny after doing 1 million episodes of um ted lasso together. Uh, it's, it's just like a different. It's a totally different. Um hits differently, right, coach? Um, we, we had a great time. It was, uh, it was the first time we've seen each other in what like a year and a half in person.

Speaker 3: 6:22

Two years a couple years anyway, right, probably a couple years. It would have been a draft, so yeah, like a year and a half.

Speaker 2: 6:27

Yeah. So it was really, really great and I was coming off a high from that. And then, you know, boss started talking a little bit about all of the. She started exploring some of the things that everyone's talking about man versus bear and I want to, I want to warn everyone that we may have some, I would say like atmospheric noise today because, like directly in bosses front hallway, it sounds like.

Speaker 4: 7:04

Oh no, they moved.

Speaker 2: 7:05

They're building the great wall in Chicago. They seem to be done. No, are they done?

Speaker 4: 7:09

They've moved along to a different block in order to destroy their peace and quiet for the afternoon Just ruining podcasts everywhere.

Speaker 2: 7:18

Yeah, they're right. Okay, good. Well, that's good. Now, coach, I know you had some. You know this man versus bear. For those uninitiated, there's this topic where a woman is walking alone in the woods. Would she rather run into and please correct me if there's any sort of subtlety of this that I'm missing and, as I understand it, the topic is woman's walking alone in the woods. Would she rather run into a bear or a strange man and the answer is bear people seem very surprised.

Speaker 2: 7:56

Uh right, the answer is like consistently bear, and, and many men seem surprised by this- well, first of all, many men do seem surprised by this.

Speaker 3: 8:05

Well, first of all, many men do seem surprised by this. We have a lot of work to do. I saw a meme that said either you're the kind of man who understands why the answer is bare, or you are the kind of man who is the reason the answer is bare, and I just kind of feel like that's pretty accurate. Oh, that's great. Because it seems to me that's pretty accurate.

Speaker 3: 8:24

Oh, that's because it seems to me that's some serious fucking feedback. That's great, and the fact that your whole goddamn takeaway from half the population saying you are so fucking dangerous, you are so deeply goddamn dangerous that, given my druthers, I would take my chances with a wild animal because at least maybe the wild animal is just following its basic instincts and I could get away Like Jesus Christ, like how do you hear that? And take away from it. This is about my hurt feelings that you didn't give me your phone number, like they. They uh, coach and boss both know I'm. I've got a. I've got quite a rant on the state of the world in my, in my quiver right now, but this is one of the things that has just got me staring at the world and going what, what the fuck are we doing? Like, just in general, there was a brawl last night at UCLA between peaceful protesters and the anti-protesters who are angry about the anti-Semitism, and so people who don't want the Palestinians hurt had a brawl for three hours with people who don't want Israelis hurt and everybody felt that made sense and I just like to say we are out of

Speaker 3: 10:05

our collective fucking mind. If you think about, I could go down our list and, believe me, I talked to a friend about earlier today and I did. What are we collectively doing? And I came up with this phrase about the whole Gaza to UCLA thing and Columbia and let's go or let's arrest the students and where's the National Guard and all this stuff. And here's where I landed.

Speaker 3: 10:34

The problem is, everybody's an expert in why they are the chosen people, but what we need is God's choosing people. What are you choosing when you don't let some Jewish kid go to class? I'd see, I thought people were kind of like taking one incident and blowing up, but now I'm seeing a video of some kid being turned rack at UCLA. These kids are so tough they're not going to let this kid go to class. There's part of me that is seriously thinking about driving up to UCLA and being like who needs to go to class? Because, believe me, you're going to make it to motherfucking class today. Who said you can't go to class Because you go into class today and they can talk to me about it? Fuck, you mean you ain't letting these kids go to class because you don't like what BB Netanyahu did. You must be out your goddamn mind.

Speaker 3: 11:29

Stop worrying about being God's chosen people and start motherfucking worrying about being God's choosing people. That's what we need in this world. You know there's nobody. Have you ever heard somebody say oh God talked to me last night and guess what? We're not the chosen people. How come God don't never let know God? Unprofessional as fuck. Let motherfuckers know they didn't get the job. That's the problem.

Speaker 3: 11:51

There's never any constructive criticism from God.

Speaker 4: 11:54

It's always just God told me I'm doing the best. God told me I am right. Wow, that's shocking.

Speaker 3: 12:00

If somebody actually said hey.

Speaker 4: 12:02

God spoke to me and he said I had it completely wrong. I was 100% wrong.

Speaker 3: 12:07

I might listen to that person, Of course because at least what are we discussing In this country? We have a fucking theocracy taking place. I just watched a video of a woman in Washington who works for the Republican Party. She's presenting their platform. They are officially anti-democratic. That's not my interpretation. Those are the fucking words. They want the word democratic removed from everything. Those are her fucking words. Because God chose America's evangelical Christians, because God chose Jewish people, because God chose the Muslims, I wish God would choose to tell y'all to shut the fuck up. That's what I wish God would choose.

Speaker 3: 12:49

I wish he would have chosen it a long fucking time ago. But all of it, all of it. Somebody's conversation I didn't see it, but somebody's conversation about man versus bear apparently devolved into men arguing over whether or not they could defeat a bear if they came across a bear in the woods.

Speaker 1: 13:06

Yeah, Let me tell you something. They're pretty sure they could.

Speaker 3: 13:10

First of all, no. And second of all, to me that's like watching video of the people screaming at Ruby Bridges and being like that shirt does not go with those pants. Like are you like? Pay fucking attention. Man.

Speaker 4: 13:28

Yeah, that's not the point.

Speaker 3: 13:30

And I'm sorry. I warned them that I but yeah, I just found myself looking up this morning going the world has lost its fucking mind. If it never had it. This is bonkers. Yeah, people are not going to get college degrees because peaceful protesters on both sides got in a fight. That's a thing that's going to happen now.

Speaker 4: 13:54

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I have to admit I'm much, much more aware of the man versus bear discussion than the protesters. I've been following the protesters a little bit, but a you know it feels like I don't want to say that we shouldn't be paying attention to it, obviously we should. It feels like it's more of a media fiasco than anything else. Like the protesters want to highlight it, yeah, like it's just turned into a huge clusterfuck in a lot of different ways, and I don't know. I support everybody's right to protest, obviously. Um, I also would prefer that people in gaza not be killed, but I, I don't they, I, there's a lot of shit that's too far above my pay grade to weigh into on. Uh, in an intelligent way, I will say the idea of an anti-war protest devolving into violence is hilarious in the worst way. That's fucking wild.

Speaker 3: 14:53

It's interesting because I, like you, I feel like there's a lot there and then people start talking about well, in 1948, and this and that, and thousands of years, and this and Exodus, and there's a lot, and I know there's a lot, and then this one broke and then this one started to fight. That time it feels to me like, and has always felt like excuse me, two arguing siblings who need an adult to just come in and say you sit there and you sit there, and I don't want to hear another fucking word out of either one of you. Like, that's. You know, my very unsophisticated take is it's enough.

Speaker 3: 15:33

I'm 51 years old. I've never known you two to not be at war and I'm fucking exhausted. Like I get it. I get why anybody on either side is going to tell me no, no, no, no. I'm just telling you I am fucking tired of it. I get why anybody on either side is going to tell me no, no, no, no. I'm just telling you I am fucking tired of it and I just mostly want all of you to knock it off.

Speaker 4: 15:55

I will say I feel like it shouldn't be one of the parents that, in 1948, divided up the region along with large parts of Africa. Like, yeah, that's yeah. I think that I would say that the U? S and England should not be the adults in that situation. That's not what we're talking about.

Speaker 4: 16:12

Um, I think, obviously, uh, the only thing that I'll say to sort of tie what you were saying, coach, about uh, god choosing, and people saying God chose me to tie it to what I will be talking about later in this episode, is people have a really terrible way of, in my opinion, framing their emotions within the context of an argument. Which is to say, which is to say, the theocratic, fundamentalist Christians in the, the us are saying well, god told me, I believe that god did this, this, this and this, so we all need to do this shit. And I'm like no, that's entirely your beliefs and your feelings. What those are is not an argument to me. You can't say, well, I think god told us this, so we have to do that. That's not convincing.

Speaker 4: 17:03

Feelings are not opposed to logic. The way that a lot of people pretend that they are, that feelings are antithetical to logic. That isn't true. Feelings also aren't absolute fact because there's nothing to be done about them. Feelings inform your opinion on something.

Speaker 4: 17:20

Feelings are information for you and if you were talking to somebody that you care a good deal about, you could say hey, it would be really important to me if you would come to my graduation on Saturday, but my feelings are. I would love for you to come to my graduation. If you care about my feelings, you might want to do that, but all of that is information. If I said you have to come to my graduation because God told me you did, that wouldn't make any fucking sense. So your feelings on something are valid to you and should be examined, and you should use all that information when forming an argument.

Speaker 4: 17:54

But then the argument is the second half. The argument is here are all of the things that we all saw happen. Here is my opinion on that, and this is why I feel that this thing is right. Then you, you build your fucking argument and you give people examples of why you think that you can't just say well, I feel it's that way, so it is so many things about what you said, but the, the, the emotion as its own argument is a problem. And.

Speaker 3: 18:30

I think people conflate that with like well, I don't want to have trigger warnings, like, if you're going to talk about some shit that's upsetting, give people a fucking heads up. Just give them a heads up, that's all. That's all a trigger warning is. That's all. A trigger warning is Relax. But the idea that, like the idea that two men are kissing, upsets me and that somehow that should have some impact on public discourse. I don't give a fuck if it upsets you. I literally let me help you understand. I'm not just saying that quickly and off the dome. I don't give a fuck that it bothers you, I don't care. I don't think it's at all relevant to the choice those two men made to kiss each other. Maybe. I don't think anybody should kiss you, yeah.

Speaker 4: 19:16

Somebody probably has. My feeling is I don't care about your feelings, so there we go.

Speaker 2: 19:24

I have a rule, Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 3: 19:25

Cody.

Speaker 2: 19:26

No, no, I was just saying if history is any indicator of these guys who protest, men kissing, the guys who seem to be protesting it the loudest are just once you peel everything back yeah, that's the whole thing is they want to be part of the kissing and they're repressed in one way or another Exactly Whatever, so be part of the kissing, uh, and they're, they're repressed in one way or another, exactly whatever.

Speaker 3: 19:49

Um, so I anyway, my, my thing is funny that we talk about. We've talked about ted lasso all this time and you know that my big thing is like, oh, ted is freeing people. You know like, and I've been hitting this thing and I'm like that's like if's a link, that's the link I would want to my life. That, generally speaking, when Orlando came around, he worked to be more and more himself and he worked to make more and more space for whoever was there with him to be themselves. That was that's what I want and that's for my players, that's for my family, that's for my players, that's for my family, that's for my friends, that's for everybody. I want you to do you to the motherfucking utmost, and I think the rule that we could all be living by and we could just check each other's work on this Is If it is not Freeing you and the people Around you, knock it off. There you go. No more commandments, bye.

Speaker 2: 20:46

Bye. I will say that one of the basicbing hand grenades at theocratic organizations and people seeking to undo that division. It's important to distinguish between religion and spirituality, and I think most of art and music and so much beauty comes from the inspiration of whatever spiritual connection you have to whatever. It's just that when you codify it, it can sometimes not always, but it can sometimes lead to repression of others or somehow a need for people to feel like they have a foot on their neck. People to feel like they have a foot on their neck. Um, I I want to say there was this we we always talk about looking at things in a from sort of a binary standpoint. We're programmed for good versus bad. It's very appropriate for this wayne episode good, good and bad, black and white, um, good and evil, um, and so, uh, I we've we've stayed out of the the fray fray with regard to what's going on in the Middle East right now. But I will say that something that I just want to note is like when you protest, protesting is a fundamental right. It's something that's really, really good for this country and should always be supported, but we have to consider what you have to consider. What does that mean? Does that mean destruction of property? Does it mean you can prevent others from going about their day, like stopping that kid from going to classes? What is the yeah Coach says no. So I think it's important to think about that. It's also that it's hard to get invested in this because people want simple like there is one right side and one wrong side and there's not. This may be the most complicated situation, but when you okay, there's no like I'm going to poach from this great thread from a guy that I follow, a guy his name is Vince Scafaria. He's like really really bright guy and I'm friends with his family and I just think he really summed this up really well. He said all of these things can be true at the same time.

Speaker 2: 23:16

Hamas is a terror organization that committed some of the worst possible atrocities on 10-7. Netanyahu is a Trumpian strongman whose atrocities and criminal actions in Gaza deserve protest. Iran proved in its 300-plus missile strike on Israel that it wants to obliterate the Jewish people there. The Israeli people have protested in large numbers to get rid of Netanyahu and they deserve not to be wiped out by Iranian missiles. Israel has been fundamental to US national security for decades.

Speaker 2: 23:45

Sometimes people gloss over that one Layer on Israel's Pegasus spyware, corrupt lobbying of politicians, and it gets very complex against Israel, like here's one thing we can't do. Netanyahu knows the above complexities and therefore has chosen to call our bluff so far, and it's easy to understand why students and others protest against Israel and we should all protest Netanyahu. Now here's the thing that people are missing out on. When you see the numbers of, like, when they arrest students, sometimes you look at the numbers, you're like, wait, oh they. Oh, there are 79 people and you know 23 of them were students.

Speaker 2: 24:27

You got to ask yourself, like, who are the other? Who are the other people in there? And some percentage of protesters and some percentage of police reliably overreact every time is one of the other things. That's true. Shit stirrers love conflict because it takes all the complexity above and gives a wedge to rip us apart. Um, the proud boys showed up at columbia. 80 of asu arrests were non-students. Uh, increasingly violent protesters are wearing masks. So you know you can go down and start to dig deep. You start to peel away it. It's just not as simple.

Speaker 3: 25:03

It's not as simple as people want to make, but I think yes to everything you just said, and if you could share what you just shared in the community, it's a great thread.

Speaker 3: 25:20

I think sometimes, okay, here's what it is. Maybe this is the coach in me too. Sometimes, when things are crazy, you got to get simple, because there's a lot of variables already. Everything you just read being true whatever, right, yeah, all at once. So to me, okay, let's say you want you feel we are right to, to excuse me, and we want the school to divest? Ok, ok, let's, let's, let's say for a very, very different protest and a very different conversation than you deciding you're not going to let Jewish students go to class right, like you are deciding, like I am going to oppress you personally here now because people who share your religion are doing something I don't like.

Speaker 4: 26:31

Oh oh, oh, okay. Sorry, I think I misunderstood that for a second. I'm getting. I am getting it now, but I think it's so.

Speaker 4: 26:38

Castleton, I know that you have said before that I see things in very black and white types of ways. I don't actually agree with that. I think that I am able to see the gray. I think that what you are reacting to is that I say, well, this portion over here, this sliver, the answer is you can't be anti semitic, I don't give a shit. There's no good reason. There's never, ever a good reason to be anti-Semitic.

Speaker 4: 27:01

To dislike somebody because they are Jewish is always 100% a bad thing. Now, too many people have generalized that. To say if you say Israel is handling the situation wrong, that is anti-Semitism, well, no, that's not true. That's not. That is inaccurate. If I say Israel shouldn't exist because I hate Jewish people, that is wrong. If I say Israel shouldn't continue to be funded with US dollars to kill people, I can have that opinion and that by itself is something to be argued about.

Speaker 4: 27:32

So I think the smaller you get into these little chunks of like. If you, are you preventing students from entering a classroom and thereby jeopardizing their future, or am I part of a protest encampment that is blocking one section of the campus and you need to walk around us, like people all too often want to say. This is the rule and this rule applies in all of these different. It applies always, and that isn't the case either, like we are grownups. Sometimes the rule applies and sometimes a different rule applies because circumstances are different, and you need to make sure that you're paying attention to the nuance, not just saying, like that woman said a mean thing to me.

Speaker 4: 28:15

No, the woman said that men are so dangerous and that we can't tell when are dangerous and which ones aren't, that we would prefer to put up with a bear than to put up with a strange man. And, by the way, just because there are so many fucking men on the Internet that apparently never read zoo books, bears don't actually attack that often. If you wave your jacket above your head and you scream or shout loudly, but not aggressively, they'll most often run away. The fact is, a bear actually is less dangerous. A bear is not going to try to eat you. Not every man will try to rape you, but too many of them will, and that's the difference.

Speaker 3: 28:51

It seems to me what we're getting as feedback is a higher percentage of men seem to rape than bears seem to attack. So if you're purely playing the odds, yeah, yeah, hey.

Speaker 4: 29:01

Hey. All you statistic nerds who talk about how girls don't like you because you're into math, fucking run the statistics, what's up?

Speaker 2: 29:07

These are a lot of hot button issues and people get, you know, rightfully worked up over them. Coach, were you going to say something?

Speaker 3: 29:15

I was going to say you're right, they are hot button issues, was going to say you're right, they are hot button issues. And one thing and we all have our hot button issues, so I'll share that one of mine, because I had to do this in a in a session once. I I specifically one of mine is police brutality and in the united states right, just, it is okay. Now my person connects to that. Yes, I am, and I react.

Speaker 3: 29:36

I recognize that it's a hot button issue and it's part of why I paused. You're not going to see, put it this way, you're not going to see a lot of all cops are bastards ACAB posts in my history, because I realized, like I am. So this is such a hot button for me. What I have to remind myself of is don't slide in the lizard brain, don't right, like, don't go there, because if it just becomes you know, police are bad period like you just go into bad places and I'm sorry, and I think that that we need more people to realize the temperature is going up. So this is the time, you know. The one thing I would disagree with you on, boss, as you said, we are grown-ups. I think we are older, we are older humans, yeah and we need more grown-ups.

Speaker 3: 30:32

We need somebody to say and I don't just blame it on it being college kids, because I think the politicians are part of the fucking problem too stop fanning the motherfucking flames. Oh, these kids should be kicked out, and whatever we think the kids are gonna feel what you say that they gotta be like. Oh, you want to bully us grown-ups. Now we're gonna fucking take over the building like what again?

Speaker 2: 30:53

what are you trying to accomplish? Those protests are being led by professional protest organizers that are paid for by whom? Right? It's not like in certain places. You haven't heard about one of these large scale protests on colleges that are only college students. Show me point to one. It just doesn't exist. It's people are in. We're in an election year and people are going to try to figure out any way to drive a wedge, are going to try to figure out any way to drive a wedge, um, you know, into the country before the election happens.

Speaker 2: 31:26

So, um, again, I, I, I just I don't understand why people don't get subtlety and nuance are there is, are we uh, have we witnessed the, the over militarization of the police in our lifetime? Absolutely Like, it's crazy, it's off the charts. But at the same time, we've witnessed, you know, criminals going from sticks to fucking machine guns, and what are the police supposed to do? Just get slaughtered. So I know horrible people, like personally horrible people who are federal agents. I hate them. I know people that got to be federal agents who I do not like I don't really I don't like say I hate anybody, but like, growing up I couldn't stand this person. I cannot believe they're an fbi agent, I'm like, oh my god, they're the worst person I know and they have that kind of power. But I also know unbelievable federal agents and I know personally and I know I talk about the cop in my local town who was like literally the best person I know and all he does is help people all day long from like dawn to dusk. And then if you call him in the middle of the night, if I called him right now, right, and I have his number he would be over here in 10 minutes with a crew of guys to make sure everything was OK. And so, yes, we need more peace officers.

Speaker 2: 32:47

Again, when we talk about churches, you look at like a Joel Osteen kind of thing, kicking out people during the, not feeding people during the. You know, during tragedy, you know during tragedy. But I promise you that the vast majority of Christians who view themselves, you know, who are connected to the Bible, are not like that. We're not like. It's actually made me. It's been heartening. There's just been a series of ad campaigns where it was like oh, it's like the he Gets Us movement or whatever.

Speaker 2: 33:18

I don't know if you saw it. I don't know what that is.

Speaker 2: 33:21

No wait and you can correct me. I'm saying I don't know what it is, but I do like the fact that I have no idea. I haven't looked into it, but I saw that they said Jesus doesn't preach hate or didn't preach hate, and I'm like, okay, it's about time that that sort of message was clarified, cause I'm like like it gets a lot. You're like, wait, it's indistinguishable. You know what I mean. And sometimes in some of the messages you go, oh my God, like this has nothing to do with Jesus, like like he would you know, it was like not absolutely nothing to do with what's going on. So, anyway, go ahead, tell me, tell me, what about that? I don't know, I have no idea.

Speaker 4: 34:26

With that? That I don't know. I have no idea. With that campaign, I'm not saying thatay and being regressive with women and anti-body autonomy and a bunch of not giving federal aid to poor people, like a lot of the conservative Christian beliefs they are still holding on to and still preach, they're just repackaging in this way that says, oh, he washed feet, oh, no, like we were into that, cool Jesus. We don't preach hate, we only preach that gay people shouldn't be allowed to be with their loved ones. But what we do sometimes, yes, okay, granted.

Speaker 2: 34:54

Here's the thing People who are have been outside of it. I've always been like. I wish Christians would step up and reclaim their religion from this tiny minority of Christians who are fucking awful Of. Quote unquote Christians who are not like have they even read the Bible? A guy like Trump is not a Christian. I don't care what he says. He's never read the Bible. He has no idea.

Speaker 3: 35:15

What gave him away? What was it? One Corinthians Fuck. Or two Corinthians whatever you said, stupid ass.

Speaker 2: 35:22

But on that level you say like also, you know, being against Netanyahu is not being against Israel, you know, writ large. It's the same thing as if somebody, let's say in Germany, while Trump was president of this country, would be like I fucking hate all Americans. Like, bro, we're with you, man. Like you know, the majority of the country would be like I fucking hate all all americans. Like, bro, we're, we're with you, man. Like you know, the the majority of the country was against it. So or saying like um, I remember when the after the uh, the wall fell and I got to know like, just like, everything got better for the period of perestroika and glasnost and all that stuff that came after the fall of the berlin wall, and I remember I had russian friends for the first time and I was like I fucking love these guys.

Speaker 2: 36:05

They were the like the bad thing. We would joke. I remember this friend of mine, ilya, would tell me about how he was raised and he would say like oh, our text. We tell me about the textbooks and how. They would say they, you know all the horrible things. And I remember him saying that they categorized England. They called it the shark of capitalism. England was the shark of capitalism, and then we would sit and laugh and drink and have a great time and I'm like, our beef is never with the other people, it's always with horrible, horrible leaders who lead their people down a certain path and 99 times out of 100, they are men, men, men, men, men. No wait.

Speaker 4: 36:46

I'm sorry, I can't. I understand what you're coming from. What you're saying is that there are a small percentage that lead people to do bad things. I cannot let slide the idea that my beef is not with other people. My beef is with other people. The idea that my beef is not with other people. My beef is with other people, and maybe I don't have to hate them Usually I do but there are plenty of people in the country who feel like I shouldn't be allowed to control my body. I shouldn't be allowed to be a single woman and have a bank account and live by myself and not have children. Their opinion is I should be obligated to be married and have children, and whether that is because their leaders are telling them that or because they've been brainwashed or whatever else, we want to say they hold those beliefs. I do have a beef with them. I will not sit down with them and-.

Speaker 3: 37:35

In fairness, I've been working on Coach Castleton and he's come a long way in terms of gender.

Speaker 2: 37:41

Oh boy, I'm really sticking, my way. No, no, no.

Speaker 3: 37:47

I hear you totally and I get it and I agree.

Speaker 4: 37:49

Yeah, I feel like we want so badly to say it is a few bad apples.

Speaker 2: 37:54

I'm saying, geopolitically, you're talking about a regime and not a people, a people Like a country full of people. You're not against the people of X, you're not against the people of China, if you disagree with Xi Jinping. When you look at Russia, vladimir Putin is a nightmare and a war criminal and the people that even showed up to memorialize Alexei Navalny were subject to imprisonment. So it's not the Russian people that were. Again, I'm saying the people in your example, boss. Yes, there are political movements and there are members of political movements who are furthering the anti-feminist goals and trying to turn back the wheel of time and, yes, we are in direct opposition to them as a movement. But I always say that this is from a I just I hate to. It's so easy to take these big broad swings when we're talking about geopolitical issues and say, oh, now we're mad at Israel Without Netanyahu. I don't know if we're that mad at Israel.

Speaker 3: 39:13

I guess it's like groups of people, right? So there's a nation that's a way of looking at group people and there's sort of like people who are affiliated, based on whatever belief system or whatever. I hear boss saying if you went to church last sunday and the person at the front of the church said any version of these people, because they don't dress the way we tell them or act like we tell them, or kiss who we tell them or have a baby when we tell them, we're going to condemn them or whatever else we're going to do to them. And you came back next sunday. You gotta own that, you're part of that, and you don't get to say oh, it wasn't my sermon, like yeah, but you're, you're there, you're part of it, you're moving on to me. It's like when people would say, well, trump isn't my president and I was like I got bad news for you.

Speaker 3: 40:08

Like I get what you mean by that, but the truth of the matter is we roll the ball out there and somehow they fucking won the game, and so that's what it is. Yeah, and so I think I hear both of you and I. What you're saying about israel holds for me, but I I do think we can. To me it's like the people who say like, oh, such and such a leader is the reason that whatever and they use trump as another. An example again oh, look what he's awakened in America. I'm like that's a lot of people, yo, yeah, like I think he's influential, but like that's a lot. You can't tell he didn't just manufacture that out of a bunch of Mr Rogers and shit. And then he showed up and then everybody went fucking crazy. Like they were pretty close to that line to start out. Well, they were just hidden before.

Speaker 2: 40:59

They were pretty close to that line to start out. Well, they were just hidden. They were just hidden before. Yeah, I mean, he wasn't the one that made them that way, he's the one that uncovered that they were happy to take their their pointy hoods off and, um, yeah, whatever, yeah, right and I have mentioned this before, I think, um castleton, what you were saying is I I would never say oh well, I hate everybody from uruguay, like I don't know everybody from uruguay.

Speaker 4: 41:18

I can't fucking say shit about that. I can't even say that I hate everybody from Uruguay, like I don't know everybody from Uruguay. I can't fucking say shit about that.

Speaker 4: 41:21

I can't even say that I hate everybody from Indiana, even though there's plenty of parts of Indiana and I'm like, hey, fuck you guys. But the point of this is, I think that we have lost the ability to accurately evaluate what we think important criteria is. So if you were born in the city of Chicago, that doesn't tell me much about who you are as a person other than the fact that at some point your parents popped you out in Chicago. If you are a member of the NRA, that tells me something different about you and I can form an opinion based on that. And I can't say well, I know for a fact that they're a horrible person.

Speaker 4: 41:57

I know people like people I love are members of the NRA because they like shooting guns, and what they will tell you is shooting guns is fun and going to the gun range is fucking fun. Like one of my best friend's husband says, I'm not going to be able to protect anybody If somebody comes through the front door. That's not why I have guns, it is not for protection, it is because I like shooting guns. I'm like got gotcha. I can't argue with that. That makes sense. I don't like guns, but I don't care that you like guns, so we can evaluate what people are saying, what their affiliations are, and then say that we form opinions on that. And so this idea that, like you, can't make sweeping generalizations about a group, it depends on the generalization and it depends on the group. Sometimes those things are absolutely accurate and we shouldn't pretend that it's morally bad to do that.

Speaker 2: 42:45

No, no, no, it's not that it's morally bad, it's just that who decides right, like, by your, the guy that's a friend of your friend, by your definition, that guy is actually paying money to support an organization that has put politicians in place to actively undo your rights and has been successful in it. So by that, that definition, which is your definition, and by coach's definition of saying like, oh, if they said you know there's some, some intolerance in church, you shouldn't go back. The NRA is the most furthering and they have opposed every bill to protect us from guns since time immemorial. So is that guy your enemy then?

Speaker 4: 43:29

I didn't say he was my enemy. I didn't say that that was the generalization that I was making. What I said is that I could make a generalization about him. What my generalization could be is that he values having access to the things that the NRA give him more than he values the bad things that the NRA is doing. And I could make that judgment about him and I could say I understand that part of you as a person and I could weigh all of the other things that I know about you and I could decide how to interact with you based on all of that information. But the generalization is he is paying money to support an organization that will not protect us from gun violence, that exposes us to gun violence.

Speaker 2: 44:07

I can know that fact about him Actively works against protections. Yes, any possible protections where children are being slaughtered. He is paying money to help.

Speaker 4: 44:17

Yes, and I know that fact about him, yeah, and I can make that judgment.

Speaker 2: 44:22

I grew up in a military family and I remember one of the first things I learned was the NRA was on our side and fighting for all of our rights. I remember when I first joined the NRA I was probably let's see, I was young, 14, 15, 14, 15 somewhere there and I remember my friends deciding should I get a life membership it'll be cheaper or should I get the thing? And I was like I have like, whatever the 12 fee is, I was like, all right, I guess this year I don't fuck, and I couldn't get out of it fast enough once I had any understanding of you know what I mean where you just go, holy shit, but it's it's, it's a way of life for some people. And that doesn't again doesn't mean uh, the, the, these the people are are, um, you know, uh, again, black and white, bad in that way.

Speaker 2: 45:11

It. It just means that the complexity is is difficult for a lot of people to understand and sort of generate an active personal plan off of, if that makes any sense. You take all of these complexities and then you ingest all of them and then you go okay, now I got to move around a minute Like, hey, how do I feel about this. Some people will be like well, I've been in the NRA my whole life. The NRA in my local town is all the best people. It's all the sheriff, firefighter, everybody that works in the town. They can't go like oh, what does this mean on a global scale? Or whatever. They can't process the information and make it make sense.

Speaker 3: 45:54

I hear you that they have that challenge. It's funny because I'm listening to both of you and hearing both of you and thinking like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's, I guess, a bunch of gray there. I think what you're saying about the NRA is interesting. I think it's possible to say my value in terms of my value, just a person in terms of my values, prioritizing as I'm making my decision on who's going to get my money, who's going to get my vote, who's going to get my vocal support, who's just going to have me say out loud in a group of people I'm a member of that group. If I lend all that to the NRA, I have, by definition, made that value judgment and I think sometimes what can be dangerous when we want to make sure, oh, the humanity of everybody, is that we kind of make it like well, if we like you, you haven't made that decision, but if we don't like you, then you're the one to blame for that decision.

Speaker 3: 46:59

I'm like well, you know what this is. So if you join in, you get all. I remember when Bernie Sanders was my guy, I remember somebody was you know and I was complaining about other candidates and they said whatever they said they weren't owning the, the consequence of what they were saying. I said listen, let me tell you something. I'm be pissed off at bernie win and he come and chop up our money because he coming for that mother yeah, I'm telling you now my wife's a lawyer and he coming for this motherfucking money and that's my money. I'll be mad.

Speaker 3: 47:36

But guess what? I have decided that I can work through my mad because I want to make sure no little kid is hungry. I have decided I can make it through that mad because, rather than us honking each other or get mad at the police for not dealing with certain traffic issues, that we should be dealing with infrastructure so that we have enough room for all the motherfucking cars we now have. So I'm not going to enjoy giving the government my money, but I have decided it's more important and I do think we have to hold people responsible for that part.

Speaker 4: 48:10

Yeah, no, I absolutely agree, I think. Also, I like what you said about when you like somebody Like I think that it is incredibly important to accurately assess people's actions, despite your feelings for them. So it just to make this as neutral as possible. Gretchen Cutler from you're the worst is one of my favorite people ever. Just a couple of weeks ago I can't remember what it was, but I was texting with my older sister and she was like oh yeah, chambers will take a bullet for Gretchen. And that is true, I would take a bullet for the bitch.

Speaker 4: 48:44

She's a fictional character and I fucking love her. She is a horrible person. She is on a show called You're the Worst. She does terrible things. She lies to people, she abuses them. She is selfish.

Speaker 4: 48:55

She at one point during a manic episode, tells all of the people closest to her all of the worst things about them, like she's. She is a bad person and I love her. And neither one of those things cancels out the other one. Like, because I love her doesn't mean that she is doing things that are good, and because she's doing bad things, I don't hate her. I like her because I think she's smart and funny and bitchy and that's my jam. So I'm not saying that everybody has necessarily the insight into separate those two things. If you like somebody, you think they're good, and if you think they're good, you like them. But I do think that it would be a better model if more people were able to separate their personal feelings on someone with how that person is actually behaving and you think that's like like um, I think I think we're seeing some of that.

Speaker 2: 49:50

I mean, you're talking about like in politics or in politics and in general how is that? How does that play out? Uh like, where's the like for someone? Is it, is it for? Yeah, it's for everyone.

Speaker 4: 50:04

I think that there are a lot of people who would say, oh well, my best friend, yeah, I mean, I know that she left her two children and moved down south to Florida, but she's a really good person, she has such a good heart and she really wants things to be better. And I'm like, yeah, but that bitch left her two kids. So like I don't know what to tell you. Like you cannot excuse somebody's behavior and you can't say that they, regardless of it's a politician, if it is a movie star, if it is somebody in your life, if you would hold somebody else accountable for the actions that that person does and you do not hold them accountable because you like them, you are doing everybody an injustice. You are giving somebody preferential treatment because you personally care about them, instead of dealing with the actual consequences of their actions.

Speaker 4: 50:59

Like, I'm not going to hate somebody If my best friend cheats on her husband, I'm not going to hate her. I'm going to say, like I don't know, let's figure this shit out. But I'm also not going to say like, oh, why is her husband mad Just because she cheated on him? Come on, what's your problem? What's your problem, dude?

Speaker 3: 51:18

It's interesting. I mean, obviously I started this shit show of personal opinions and talking about the Middle East, which is clearly not why we were gathered here, but there's actually some stuff in this episode as we've been touching a few things I've been like, interestingly, there's at least one very big connection to this conversation to be discussed here. So I don't know if you want to jump in there and use that as a no we have all of this as background on this conversation and jump in, or or not, coach, but I'm glad we did this. I got to admit.

Speaker 2: 51:58

Yeah, I think, I think it's been hovering there in the, in the, in the wings for a little bit. We, we appreciate it, it's important, uh, it's important stuff and um, you know, for people, um, yeah, I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it at that and we'll jump in. Uh, it's, it's it's. There's a lot of complexity to the, to the modern world, and um, this is why nostalgia feels so good. It's because you can simplify it in the past. You know what I mean. Go ahead, boss.

Speaker 4: 52:32

What were you going to say? I was talking to a friend the other night. I put this on threads, so at the end of the show, when I tell you where it is, you can go find it. I like that you said this is why nostalgia feels so good, Because that is almost universally a truth. Except while I was talking to this friend she said I don't want to hang out with people who thought their childhoods were good, and I was like I saw that you posted that.

Speaker 3: 52:58

I saw that you posted that and I liked it, not because I don't, but I liked it because it was such an appropriate thing for you to post and, like I said, I want everybody to be their full selves and I was like I 100 get that, having gotten to know boss, she means that shit and okay, that's fair, I really, I really.

Speaker 4: 53:23

When she said it, I was like, oh fuck, yeah, no, that is, that is absolutely true, that I don't want to hang out with people with other childhoods for good. I don't, I don't. What would we talk about? Like fucking, I don't even know it is.

Speaker 2: 53:36

Um, yeah, it's funny and right.

Speaker 2: 53:40

Uh, it's so interesting because in the time that, uh so when I was first divorced, um, I had to leave, uh, los angeles, and and so it was, I was so broken, I was so destroyed and and I let some friendships go and I didn't know I had ADHD. Now that I that I know this was diagnosed later, I realized, like you know, I couldn't keep a lot of these things up. So when I went back this weekend, I was at this party with coach and I don't know why it happened this weekend, maybe it's just the people that were at this party, but some of the people I let go were at the party and I had a lot of anxiety heading into it, not coach level anxiety. Just like I better prep myself, I'm going to see some of these people, one of what? One of whom was a guy, uh, his name is james, and I used to play tennis with him every week before I left and had had not talked to him I don't think I knew that no, I had not talked to him, holy shit.

Speaker 2: 54:37

And we were close, we were, we played tennis every week and we were friends and we and uh, we had this tuesday night thing where he would come over in this crew of people that would watch uh, I would pick a show or something like that and, um, at tuesday night and we would all get together and have a tuesday night like thing. It was just great. It was just this great anyway, great tradition, um, so I hadn't seen him and he's there with his wife at this party and I walk up to him and, uh, nervously tap him on the shoulder and he turns around, he looks at me and he goes, oh, fuck you man. And gives me the biggest hug. He just was, like, it was so great.

Speaker 2: 55:14

And then we had the best time. He tells me oh, like four years ago I was diagnosed with adhd and we realized like, oh, no wonder we haven't reached out because fucking, out of sight, out of mind, two complete idiots. But we've basically been living parallel lives. He's gone through a lot of the same stuff, diagnosis wise, as I have with some of my children, and it was really great. And so then at the end of the night he had to get back, leaving with his wife. And he stands up and he realizes, in that we had the best time, the best time together, nonstop laughing, you know, like just just right back into it after 15 years, which is which is amazing and he stands up to walk away and realize, oh, the last time I walked away from from, from me, um, I didn't see you for 15 years. So he gets up and then he looks at me and he's like about to say something profound and he got, and he just gives me the finger and he goes fuck you. And I was like, it was so my jam, I was made me so happy. I've been like thrilled about it the entire time.

Speaker 2: 56:19

But again, it's maturity and it's like, you know, it's comedy in the face of of all of that stuff. But it's exactly, we've come, we've all come so far and, and people, you get to a point where you can start to put it in perspective and you know it, it just it's just. You know, once upon a time maybe there'd be anger or resentment, or you know what I mean. It's like at this age. There's a certain thing where and he wasn't the only one everybody that I bumped into that night was where and he wasn't the only one. Everybody that I bumped into that night was fantastic and had moved. You know, whatever, there's no room for anybody else.

Speaker 3: 56:54

If I had known, he was going to be there, I wouldn't have gone, but whatever, I was already there. I had already paid for the lift.

Speaker 2: 56:59

Yeah, yeah, no thanks, I appreciate that.

Speaker 3: 57:04

It strikes me that once I had this person was a mentor to me. I've since lost her, but she was a mentor to me. She said if you look at the black community as a depressed person, it makes a lot more sense. And I was like, oh shit. Like as soon as she said it, I was like, oh my.

Speaker 2: 57:19

God, I remember you saying that yeah, yeah, no, that's a great.

Speaker 3: 57:22

I mean, it's like that's super insightful, like poof and watching recently, certainly on the Jewish side of things, because I have several Jewish friends who I've been trying to check in with and be like, okay, this is your friend, orlando. I'm waving my hands, I don't have the. You know, nobody talked about this around my dinner table, but I'm asking you a question. It is clear to me the trauma of the Jewish community and, having done a ton of trauma work of my own, I'm like, first of all, they can't even hear, and I don't mean that in a bad way, I mean that I went through this shit over my sister getting bitten by a dog, not the Holocaust. So I'm not, I am not minimizing, I'm like you can't even hear, you can't. You're like nope, danger, fuck this shit. I don't give a fuck danger. Like that's where you go off on it with a trauma response or not the only place, but it's a place and I think we end up seeing a lot of that and and I and I wish we could be more like you and James to say it sucks. 15 years passing sucks.

Speaker 3: 58:35

But if we're both honest, we both know how to use a phone. Neither one of us called and so here we are and we have a decision to make. We can either have a big hug and have a good night or we can stand around and act like dickheads and talk to other people in the party about what an asshole the other ones be. I mean, we're choosing. I'm not somebody who's like, oh well, if you were abused, then you really spiritually chose that. That stuff makes me crazy.

Speaker 3: 59:04

But I'm saying we do make some actual choices and we can choose to hug sometimes, like not always, sometimes not the appropriate time for a hug, but when. But when it works. I think we should try it more often and it just it's. It's striking to me how easy it is to not to to hold that grudge. Oh so I saw somebody posted like none of my friends called when I was recovering from blah, blah, blah surgery and the people who didn't call or check on me are all blocked. And I was like, oh my God, like I don't even know you, sir, and I just want to be like unblock those people. You have no idea, you don't know what's going on with them. I give them love yeah, give them love.

Speaker 3: 59:57

I have a friend. I still feel terrible. Years ago she was in the hospital it was just after my mom had died and some other shit happened and I couldn't fucking do it. I didn't mean to not be able to do it, but I never went and visited and I've felt shitty about that for over a decade. But you know, at some point I went and I said, hey, you know, you know, I care, you know I'm sorry, that was fucked up. I needed to like work through my shit, but that's where I was, I'm sorry. And we're still still like sister and brother, like I don't know, like I think it's we got to do better with that moment. Man, fuck you and a hug.

Speaker 2: 1:00:36

Okay, that's fine, but let's, let's get the hugging well, that that's the, that's the high water mark, like that's as good as it gets, and because that was like it was fuck you man a hug and then like 45, no, like maybe more than an hour and an hour and 15 minutes of like, like my sides hurt.

Speaker 3: 1:00:54

I was laughing coach isn't telling the whole story, by the way, because by the end of the night james, who I also know, walked up to me and said oh yeah, I'm gonna be doing some merchandise stuff for your team and I was like well, it's nice to talk to you, james. I assume Flo already negotiated with you.

Speaker 2: 1:01:14

I was like what are you talking about? I haven't seen you in years. What are you talking about?

Speaker 3: 1:01:20

So when Coach says they hit it off, they hit it off.

Speaker 2: 1:01:23

They were talking about everything under the sun, to the point where our friend who's in merchandising is like, yeah, give me a call I want to talk a little bit about party dynamics, because this is this is something I think, uh, look, both of you will have a insight into when the party started. So I flew out for this party, um, and it was a friend, uh was selling a house in los angeles. They now live in santa fe, but they had bought a house in la, and all of us back then 20 years ago, this whole crew of people that were in the film industry we just had some great times in that house and it was like a way to say goodbye to the house and also see everybody that was in that crew back then. And when the party started, a lot of the people that had shown up. I didn't really know and I was feeling a little bit like, uh, overstimulated at the very beginning, and so I had volunteered to do some help. They needed some help. I was the first one there because I wanted to see the husband and wife who were hosting the party and have a little like face time with them. Before, you know, before I, like before it got crazy and they were in the middle of like getting ready and they needed me to do a couple things, I said, great, yeah, I'd love to. I love helping out.

Speaker 2: 1:02:28

So I was doing some stuff and kind of hiding a little bit, I wasn't ready to be like extroverted, if that makes any sense. And then so the people that showed up, I got like I was like, ah, this is not I don't know. I didn't know a lot of them and it was, but I felt like overstimulated. So I went outside and there was like a little seating area out, kind of hidden in the corner, and so I went to the hidden corner seating area and I sat down by myself and I was just like.

Speaker 2: 1:02:58

I just like took a little breath and was looking at some texts from my kids and then like a couple comes over and I'm like god damn, because, like I was like all right shit, like I was trying to be like a book, comes over and I'm like God damn it, cause, like I was like all right shit, like I was trying to be like a book on a plane kind of thing, like I am otherwise, whatever. And they and they were like oh, we don't want to interrupt you, we're just going to say it, we wanted to get a little air and we'll sit near you and whatever. I was like okay, great.

Speaker 2: 1:03:32

Like don't, don't, let us bother you. Oh, my gosh shit. So, and how do you know that? Oh, god damn it, I got a human. Now I got a human, exactly so, and, and they were actually lovely. The two of them were very, very. Yeah, no, it's no reflection on them, but yeah, I get it, they were, they were fine and and and uh, to her credit, uh, and I told her this later in the night uh, like she was asking like really fun questions, so she wasn't saying, like what do you do?

Speaker 2: 1:03:50

She's like okay, so we just met, like what's your favorite place in the world to vacation? Or where it is like what's your dream place to visit? Like that's how she started. And then she told me she's like, oh, she'd been reading or listening to a podcast about, like, uh, ice breakers or something so, and I was like, oh, good for you. Like I told her this later in the night, but, um, I didn't know who these people were. And then this other dude showed up and he was. He was like what I had been running from and didn't know it. It's like death chasing you. And he was like all about what you're talking about. You know, I'm talking, I know, I know don't say anything else I'm not gonna say his name.

Speaker 2: 1:04:26

He was like he introduced himself to the other guy, like the, the member of the couple I was talking to, and he was like started talking about um, oh my God, he's like I run, I own like these investment companies and like, yeah, boss is already shaking her head. It was so bad, boss. But it was like he was like, oh, where do you work? And the guy's like, oh, I'm a mechanic at this, whatever this startup that does ev vehicles. And he's like, well, do you guys sell medium grade?

Speaker 2: 1:04:57

I need to buy 39 medium grade vans because I, I'm all about, because, like, one of my companies does the grid of some, and I was like it was so gross, it was the grossest thing ever. Um, and so imagine me being grossed out trying to like I'm just like silent, you know, stuck between these people that are talking, and had to figure out a way to like gently ease myself out of there and and, um, and then, lo and behold, like four minutes later I get a tap on the shoulder and it's coach, and coach is there and you go from like oh, I didn't know, I didn't.

Speaker 2: 1:05:33

I was waiting to see because I was like, oh, I'm trying to remember, so that's when I was getting there, it was like, right, when you're getting there, yeah, and it was like I had luckily found some people in that in the meantime. But it went from like really, really isolated and sort of like, oh god, I'm on. You know that, that terrible thing, when your introversion side kicks in, like if you're in, you know it depends on, they say like what, what recharges you? Are you recharged by other people or are you recharged by being alone? And in that moment, um, there's also introverted, extrovert, which I don't really know what the actual definition of it is I think it's ambivert is the is that what they call it?

Speaker 2: 1:06:09

yeah I get recharged. That's where I fall.

Speaker 3: 1:06:12

Yeah, that's, that's where I am yeah, but it.

Speaker 2: 1:06:14

But I was like very much like, oh god, this is awful. And then, you know, a few minutes later I feel like I couldn't be more safe. You know what I mean? I couldn't be happier and more safe.

Speaker 2: 1:06:26

And I want to share a tiny little anecdote about coach, because I had him dying, laughing as I'm hanging out with him and I study everything and and watch everybody. Um, and coach is so fucking funny, because do you know what I'm saying, what I'm about to say? I noticed he does a thing. He's the best person to have at a party, because someone will walk by right and we'll be sitting talking and they'll say something to me, or they say somebody, somebody near us, it doesn't matter whatever and then coach will flash a trillion dollar smile and say something super nice and as they go, so it's like they'd walk by and and they'd wave or something like that, and coach would be like hey, hey, good to see you over there, all right, like whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:07:14

And I go and then I watch somebody else, the people are leaving and they go by and like say bye to a bunch of people and buy the coach on the way out, and they don't know, they don't know who they don't know and but he makes them feel like he knows. He's's like hey, I'm so happy you came out tonight. This is really great. And I'm like he doesn't know those people. He has no fucking idea who these people are, but he treats them like family. I was like this guy is the best.

Speaker 2: 1:07:39

I'm not trying to trick them, it's not really where I'm like yeah, yeah, yeah, you're just nice, you're just super kind and you're like hey, we're all here together, great to see you. It doesn't overdo it, it's not like that, it's just a little head nod or whatever it is, but it's like it is so welcoming and wonderful and I was like I love this guy. He's so great.

Speaker 3: 1:08:00

It was good to see, it was good to hang out. It's interesting all of the stuff we've talked about. You're one of three people that night who I had some version of the overstimulated conversation with, and I was like you know what's really in this room?

Speaker 3: 1:08:20

A lot of goddamn therapy, like I don't know what everybody's been doing, but somehow none of us felt the need to just start guzzling alcohol and nobody acted like I think, like we did all we did. We did some growing up. I think there was a lot of therapy in that room and and boss is nodding, so I think she she's with me on that, but it's fascinating to me once we do like, because you know what I mean like there's a lot of work.

Speaker 3: 1:08:47

Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. Somebody you know, a mutual friend, said to me I'm feeling a little stimulated in here and I literally I didn't do it on purpose, but I literally took a step back from her and then was like you want to head outside? And then she was like no, no, I think I'm okay, you know, I mean, but like immediately, like it wasn't like oh, you know it's like oh, no, no, no, we're not going to do that to you tonight. You're going to have a pleasant evening and we just all were. So I think there's a lot of that felt nice. That did feel nice. It felt like it was the kind of room where you could bring somebody over and we'd be talking, you'd go he has ADHD too and we're all like no shit man, we actually said that.

Speaker 2: 1:09:29

I literally said that, yeah, no, right, like as it feels, like, oh good, it's all, it's all. There was one one moment. You're exactly right, coach. There's one moment I was talking to um, a woman who, uh, married one of our friends and they had just gotten married right before I left, so I didn't get a lot of time to know her and they have kids about the same age as mine and I was, I don't. I mentioned, oh, my daughter's in an all-girls school and she, she's like, oh, my daughter's in an all-girls school and she's like some people really don't like that, because, you know. And I was like, yeah, because I was like boys fucking suck, I don't like it's so much better without them. How long can we keep them away from that kind of trauma? And she laughed her head off and was like, oh, thank God, you know what I mean. It's just this really open.

Speaker 3: 1:10:10

Listen, if co-ed meant with bears, maybe she'd feel different, seriously, seriously. They've studied it and you know that co-education benefits. It's like marriage, basically Single gender, however you want to frame it, education. Actually, I wish I could remember like the details of what better meant, because obviously, but like what's better in this study in terms of the girl students but not for the boy students. I thought that was so interesting.

Speaker 2: 1:10:48

I think that was like totally fascinating, but yeah, um, so yeah, anyway I never thought one of my children would go to like a single gender school and but now I'm like, I'm like giddy about it, like I just see these girls and I'm like oh my god, I've switched up on that.

Speaker 3: 1:11:07

My big thing on everything was was one reason I was glad I went to poly was like well, I'm going to have to deal with white people at some point.

Speaker 1: 1:11:14

You know what I mean Mulligan will get it out of the way. Let's figure this shit out.

Speaker 3: 1:11:18

There we go. Okay, Note to self. That's what a mulligan is.

Speaker 4: 1:11:27

That's advanced white people. I didn't learn that. I didn learn that when I was a kid, as a white person. That wasn't until I was older yeah, I mean jesus christ and then you taste your first gin and tonic and you're like why? Why is white supremacy a thing? This doesn't make make any sense. This is far and away not the supreme version of anything On that note, actually, since I just ridiculed gin and tonics but legitimately they do taste bad.

Speaker 4: 1:11:59

This is going to sound weird. Number one I'm very glad that both of you boys had a great time at the party. I'm very glad that it went well. I also I know that this is going to sound weird. I would not want to talk to that guy. That was like oh, I'm an hedge investor. I wouldn't want to talk to that guy either. I wouldn't. I'm not pretending that he would be my best friend.

Speaker 4: 1:12:20

I would like to say that what I like most about a majority of what I'm hearing from the party is that it was good for you guys, and I think that that's going to be one of the most key things for people becoming grownups and recognizing that just because they like something doesn't mean everybody else has to like something that guy should have known not to talk to people about pants. But there are other times where somebody might only want to talk about their career, like maybe they've just had a real significant breakthrough and if you ask them what they were doing, what their livelihood is, they would be thrilled to talk about it. So I think it's. I don't want to say that there is a moral judgment on talking about things or not talking things, or getting drunk or not getting drunk. You should find what's good for you and then not worry about what's good for other people.

Speaker 4: 1:13:09

And I'm not saying that to you too individually, I'm saying that in general. Like, like this is this is part of the problem with everybody in the country is that somebody's like well, I'm a stay at home mom with four kids and I love it, so everyone should do that. And I'm like nope, even to the point of I am so thrilled that your daughter loves her. All girls college. If somebody else doesn't want to do that, it's not that one or the other is better, it's finding what makes you freer, what makes you happier, what makes you more yourself never comes at the expense of other people having to do that same thing.

Speaker 3: 1:13:43

I love that you said that, because now this is very much an outsider view, so it's a bit like either of you jumping into an argument about the N-word, like maybe you said this one, so I'm acknowledging that one up front. But when I see women go after each other about choosing home or career to really sort, of drill it down.

Speaker 4: 1:14:06

Oh, my fucking God.

Speaker 3: 1:14:07

I'm like, is that? The whole point that you can do whatever the fuck you want, Like why are you beating up on each other for? A bullshit choice no one should have been asked to make in the first place. It's very. It makes me sad because I'm like that's just like I often dismiss, hurt people, hurt people because I'm like all right, like, but you know you need go there but you need to get over there, you need to get yourself there but that is definitely one place where I see a hurt people, hurt people dynamic, because I'm like, why, why, why so?

Speaker 3: 1:14:41

and, I think, angry because you've been made to feel bad about your choice. So then you have to get more strident about your choice. So right, you know, but I love what you just said. If you will stay home with your kids, stay home with your kids I saw somebody mocking a man who was you know. Basically he's gonna marry this woman and want to be a house husband. That's my reaction was like for him if that's you, do your shit and um it.

Speaker 4: 1:15:04

Just we can't I, we cannot unpack all of it, but I will say that I firmly believe a large part of the divide and I'm doing that in scare quotes because this is an audio medium Part of the divide is that if you can convince somebody else, convince somebody that their enemy is somebody else, if you create these divisions, people are easier to control. That doesn't mean that you have to like the person that is mad at you because of your side of the division. It doesn't mean that I should say to the woman who doesn't want me to get an abortion you and I are besties and it's the higher powers that are making us do this. I can say no, you don't get to choose that for me and understand her position. This is a thing that I have said repeatedly. Patriarchy isn't about how men act. It's how society treats women and also men and everyone but treats right, but yes.

Speaker 4: 1:16:06

Like. I got into a discussion a couple of weeks ago with the boyfriend about why it is such a hindrance that women are judged by their looks as much as they are, and he said something to the effect he tried to because the guys on the spectrum and sometimes you need to explain things to him in different ways he came at it from a well if, if, being better looking gets you a better mate, if it's this like sex thing, and I was like no, no, no, no, no. That's a very, very small part of society. Having a mate and having a sexual partner is a tiny bit of what women face when they are not considered conventionally attractive. It's not about her husband, it's about her entire life. And he was like, well, she might.

Speaker 4: 1:16:55

I was like nope, nope, it isn't about what individually happens to her, it is how we treat all of the people. We need to get that shit straight. The reason that there is a divide between stay-at-home moms and working moms and child-free women is because we want to dictate what women do more than we care what they end up doing, and so we need to make sure that we aren't putting those same judgments on things when they don't matter. When they matter, judge. When they don't matter, who the fuck cares? Who the fuck cares.

Speaker 3: 1:17:27

Yeah, yes To everything you just said and I love framing it as in terms of this, that it really is about the structure.

Speaker 3: 1:17:43

I know people have had this stuff about CRT and other stuff, but I think one of the reasons those kinds of of theories and ways of thinking and areas of study get pummeled, frankly, like I remember when I was in college, I feel like women's studies really took a lot of shit.

Speaker 3: 1:18:06

I feel like just took some shit, like it wasn't anything specific. I don't remember anybody having like a rally or trashing their offices or anything. But I'm just saying like this, and I think in part because the last motherfucking thing I want, as an american man, is for anybody to sit down and figure out the fucking code to the bullshit that has me sitting on top and I and I just and I and I think there's so much of that and I wish, I wish we were smarter about looking at systems and and I think that's part of what Coach was pointing to earlier about, look, you've got these leaders and, yes, I wish we were smarter about looking at systems and I wish we were more honest about how easy it is for us to be a part of certain systems.

Speaker 4: 1:18:55

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:18:55

Because I think a lot like for you. Oh, there's this gender inequality. Oh, coach castleton and coach bishop are gonna tsk, tsk for 40 minutes now about but like, but what's the shit? You do right to either support that or to not fight it. You know, know what I mean. On a like consistently, where are you? In all that? I feel like we're awfully good at going like hey man, I never raped anybody, so I'm going to go grab lunch and when I get back, I guess you'll be done with the gender conversation. No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't go anywhere. Yet. What you said, that's a totally real thing and impacts people's livelihood who we hire, who we promote, who we mentor. And you got to check yourself. You got to ask yourself, like, is it a coincidence that this person is beautiful and I want to help them? Or is there something in me that wants to help them because they're beautiful and you might have to figure out how to balance that shit?

Speaker 4: 1:20:03

I mean, you just have to and I'll add, just because a lot of this stuff is so insidious um, there is a chance, not a chance. There is a definite correlation between people being more attractive and other people wanting their attention more and then them becoming more socially adept. Like, I am not saying, good looking people are routinely presented with an opportunity to learn how to talk to new people and be comfortable doing that, because people are coming up to you all the time. You get better at it. I'm talking about a fucking motorcycle going past. God damn it, sorry, just like the actual practice of it. If people are continually trying to get your attention, you figure out sometimes how to do that better. So, like there are so many fucking layers to this shit where, like, good-looking people sometimes are really charismatic because they are good-looking, and we need to take that into account also I think it's that's.

Speaker 3: 1:21:11

That's a really good point. It reminds me of um in malcolm gladwell's outliers, which sounded a little more pompous than I intended for it to. I'm not sure why that sounded terrible Like I wanted to punch myself in the face, I think it was Malcolm Gladwell, exactly. I'm like oh oh, but anyway, he talked specifically all sorts of interesting ones, but he talked about the hockey players and that, because of where the cutoff date was, they were finding that a disproportionate number of like the best hockey players were born in January.

Speaker 3: 1:21:46

They're like what the fuck? Or it could have been a different month. I'm pretty sure it was January, and what was happening is that December 31st was the cutoff date, so the January babies were all the fucking oldest, and when you've got kids, that probably means they were also the biggest and the fastest and maybe the most experienced. Then what would happen? This is to your point, boss. Because they were good, what happened? They got more playing time and then, because they got more playing time, it got even better. Then they made the all-star team. Now they've got regular practices, regular games, all-star practice, all-star games, right, and the confidence boost of all that. So yeah, but until we get to the NHL, all our birthdays fall before Valentine's Day and we're all like, oh, I don't know, maybe it's because we're Capricorns.

Speaker 4: 1:22:34

I have no idea. Yeahricorns are Gemini's great at hockey. I don't know if either of those let's go there. Boys. Come on now, boys. Oh, maybe that's it. Everyone in Canada is actually born before January 5th. They're very efficient, so they just get all the births in right at the very beginning.

Speaker 2: 1:22:52

All right, let's dump and chase. Now, boys, I am so, listen, it's playoff hockey time. I it's now, boys. I am so, listen, it's playoff hockey time. I can't. I, you should not have mentioned hockey players. Last night I watched as the Bruins tried to to to close out the Toronto Maple Leafs. And you want to talk about irrational dislike for a team. I still I don't like the Maple Leafs because of a guy of a Maple Leaf who retired 25 years ago. Like, just, it's not, not rational. But the leaves came back in overtime and won, and so now we move to game six. But, um, but still, beautiful hockey, uh, hockey, playoffs.

Speaker 2: 1:23:29

I'm telling you, I know there's a lot of people who don't watch hockey, but holy moly, oh, my god, uh, I need a fainting couch. It's such a great time of year. Okay, we're going to. I think we're going to put a pin in the rest of this. We were going to Listen, we announced it like we were going to talk about Wayne and we came in thinking we were going to talk about Wayne. And I know that, coach and Boss, this episode, the next episode of Wayne, there is a lot to talk about. Um, uh, in the off season, while I was in los angeles, uh uh boss informed a coach and I she said oh yeah, I've watched ahead. I watched ahead with the boyfriend and she told me to get my affairs in order. That was a text I got because she, because she's a lot of fun to be around and likes to I added popcorn to my grocery list.

Speaker 3: 1:24:24

I was like, oh yeah, there's going to be a show.

Speaker 2: 1:24:28

Even when she's not live and on the air, she likes to always improve my mood. I really appreciate that boss. That's what. I'm here for we're going to knock it around a little bit, um, uh, but today we we started to get on a tear and I thought it was important for us to uh, to continue the tear.

Speaker 4: 1:24:46

sometimes, uh, sometimes you just that's the way it's got to go I want you to know, because I sent you that mean text over the weekend. I just refused to do a bad rhyming joke, I. I'm saving you from that and I need that to be on the record. Oh, you were gonna do a bad rhyming. I was gonna do a bad rhyming joke. I'm saving you from that and I need that to be on the record.

Speaker 2: 1:25:01

Oh, you were going to do a bad rhyming joke.

Speaker 4: 1:25:02

I was going to do a bad rhyming joke.

Speaker 3: 1:25:04

Oh, thank you. There's something really beautiful about what just happened here, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:25:09

I tried, we had a moment. We had a moment. All right, coach, where do people find you if they?

Speaker 3: 1:25:16

want to find you, find me in the community, I'll be there. No, uh, really it's been. Uh, it really has been fun. It really has been fun and everything from absolute silliness to people sharing some really beautiful stories. So come through, become a buttercup. What about your boss?

Speaker 4: 1:25:30

uh, mostly on threads. Um, you could find me it's emilychambers.31. Uh, I am on blue sky a little bit more and they've uh started making vampire weekend jokes there. So I am on blue sky a little bit more and they've uh started making vampire weekend jokes there. So I'm going to be there a little bit more on blue sky it's dumbly chambers and and also occasionally, but not so occasionally, writing at the antagonist, which is antagonist blogcom. I'm trying to get my life in order in terms of being online. Everybody wish me luck.

Speaker 2: 1:25:57

Good luck with that. And yeah, that's it for us today. We will actually do Wayne next time. In the meantime, please support your local libraries and the written word. You know, one of our buttercups posted a fantastic list of all the books on Ted Lasso in an effort to to support local libraries, buttercup Brian. He said hey, look at this list of all the you know it's of all the books on Ted Lasso and then some ancillary reading stuff, sort of affiliated readings, all of which are available at your local library, although some of them are coloring books. So Ted Lasso, coloring books. I think that might be a one-shot kind of deal, but in general, yeah, please support your local libraries and the written word and I guess, if we've, I might start tacking on one more thing to my sign-off, which is raise better boys, raise better boys, just raise better boys so women can walk in the woods.

Speaker 3: 1:26:56

Seriously. You should be relieved, not more horrified yeah, she'll.

Speaker 2: 1:27:01

Oh, thank god there might be bears here. Hello, stranger. Can you imagine where's? Where's that world? Why does it always have to get shittier? Why is everybody so? Juliana was like it. Like, why are we so obsessed with the apocalypse? It's like it's like a foregone conclusion we just all genuinely accept we're going to destroy the world. Like, where are the happy, amazing jetpack worlds of? You know? Where's Star Trek?

Speaker 4: 1:27:27

I mean it's Star Trek. I need to put that out there before anybody gets mad at us.

Speaker 2: 1:27:30

It is Star Trek.

Speaker 4: 1:27:31

But aside from Star Trek.

Speaker 2: 1:27:32

I know, but no one's aspiring to Star Trek. Everyone's like oh, Fallout, I totally get it. Yeah, no.

Speaker 4: 1:27:39

No to Star Trek. Everyone's like oh Fallout, I totally get it. Yeah, no, no nuclear catastrophe.

Speaker 2: 1:27:40

Well, that's mostly Goggins.

Speaker 4: 1:27:41

Let's get real, that's mostly what Goggins, walton Goggins in Fallout.

Speaker 2: 1:27:46

Oh, oh, oh oh. Walton Goggins. No Jesus, I didn't know what you were saying.

Speaker 4: 1:27:51

I thought you were like I thought that was like a Lady Gaga term, Like, oh, it's mostly Goggins.

Speaker 2: 1:27:54

No, he's, he's, he's did you finish that boss? Yes, yeah, okay, yeah, no, he's, he's like no, he never does any wrong. Did you ever watch the shield? I didn't. And now it's where he started and it was one of those things. He was like a junior, he was like a, he was like a little pissant. Yeah, that like was so fucking good. They had to write his role bigger. You love when actors do that. They're like oh, he's a day player. Then they're just phenomenal.

Speaker 4: 1:28:20

We should write more for this, hey we should let him do this for his job. That would be a good idea.

Speaker 2: 1:28:26

It's amazing. He's never, ever sick at sea, doesn't matter what he's in, doesn't matter the genre Always great. I love actors like that. Shane, I was like which one's Walton Goggins.

Speaker 3: 1:28:36

He's also good in yes Shane.

Speaker 4: 1:28:40

Justified.

Speaker 3: 1:28:41

Justified.

Speaker 4: 1:28:42

Thank you, Boy my brand wasn't giving that to me.

Speaker 3: 1:28:43

He was so good. Anyway, sorry about that.

Speaker 2: 1:28:46

Yeah, this was your episode. Walton Goggins' Love Fest Mm-hmm. Okay, all right, everybody, that is it. We'll be back next time with Wayne, episode 9, thought we Was Friends. The plan is to finish Episode 9 and 10 of Wayne. That's all there are. There are only 10 total episodes. Boss will eviscerate me live and in living color, and then we'll move on from there. So thank you everybody for joining us and until next time. We are Richmond Till we Die. Richmond Till we Die, that's right, we're done with Ted Lasso. But guess what? Richmond Till we Die, not Till we Finish Ted Lasso, that's right. Till we Die, we understand commitment on this podcast, people, sort of Alright, thanks, we'll see you next time.