Wayne | S1 Ep5 Part2 "Del"

WAYNE ON YOUTUBE

The Tedcast is a deep dive podcast exploring the masterpieces that are Ted Lasso on Apple TV+ and Wayne on YouTube.

Sponsored by Pajiba and The Antagonist, join Boss Emily Chambers and Coaches Bishop and Castleton as they ruminate on all things AFC Richmond.

Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop
Coach Castleton

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the lasso way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 2 0:40

Welcome back everyone. We are exploring Wayne, episode five. This is the episode entitled Dell. This is part two. I am your host, coach Castleton.

Speaker 3 0:50

With me is always this Coach Bishop Over here enjoying some free pancakes and domestic beer.

Speaker 4 0:56

As one does and, of course, our boss on the chambers and thanks to outgoing mayor Lori Lightfoot, there has been construction on my street for 17 straight years and it continues. So if you hear the jackhammer, that is because, after we failed to reelect her as our mayor when she knew it was going to be a runoff between two people, and neither one of those two people was her, she was like, hey, fuck y'all.

Speaker 4 1:23

Yeah, so you wanted all that construction done? Great, it's all going to be done right now. You're not going anywhere. You're never going to get a moment's peace. Fuck you, I'm out.

Speaker 3 1:33

I'm not sure that I've seen a mayor and a city have what felt like a romantic breakup as much as this. Everyone I know from Chicago. It's not just I don't like her politics, it's like we've been hurt. We've been hurt by her. I mean, a friend of mine will go on about the suits and have me in tears, in tears Just about the suits. We're not even to any politics yet. So anyway, she's got away with people apparently.

Speaker 4 2:12

Well, you know, there is a small part of me I don't need to get in too much into regional politics but there's a small part of me that understands, because she and the demographic that she presented was progressive, black, lesbian, mayor, and that is not a thing that we've had before. This was like, yes, we are, we are doing change, we are getting a new perspective. We were having somebody else come in and then COVID hit and Black Lives Matter, and Chicago has an extremely powerful police department, and there was all of this shit that culminated in a hey, you are not who we thought you are, or you didn't know that the job was this way, and so then all of this shit that probably is systemic, we put on her tiny little besuaded shoulders and then, when it didn't work, we were like get the fuck out.

Speaker 4 3:03

And so that, yes, a romantic breakup does sound about right.

Speaker 3 3:07

There you go.

Speaker 2 3:12

All right. So what I'm hearing is don't elect black people. Is that what your messaging was there, boss?

Speaker 4 3:16

You know what? Ordinarily I would let that joke, I would play along with that joke. But Chicago we went ahead and elected a different black person. We, that's true, oh my goodness why would you do a thing like that?

Speaker 2 3:30

This is the thing.

Speaker 4 3:31

So like when white people say, oh, I can't be racist, I have a black friend, they mean a co-worker, and they're probably are racist. Chicago can say we have had multiple black names going all the way back.

Speaker 3 3:45

There you go.

Speaker 4 3:45

I mean, come on Washington, Come on All the way back, then Come on so like yes, we have our issues, but also a black person in charge of us. We are comfortable with that. Well, I shouldn't say everybody. Chicago still isn't that great. We still have some issues in mass as a group as a group, as a group, yes, the Chicagoans who live in Chicago and not Naperville and still pretend to represent that they would are from Chicago. You know, you're from fucking Naperville. No, Chicago Chicagoans on average are doing okay.

Speaker 2 4:23

I love that Just functional tribalism boss. It really warms my heart. He's not even from round here.

Speaker 4 4:30

Listen. If you fucking knew what Naperville was, you would understand this. I'm sorry If there's anybody who's used to.

Speaker 2 4:37

Naperville, don't feel bad. Us versus them. There you go, us versus them.

Speaker 3 4:41

He's just saying it because you're depending on geography. If you talked about the smarts versus the dumbs, he'd get plenty, he'd get plenty tribal in a hurry.

Speaker 2 4:50

Now let's talk about it.

Speaker 3 4:55

Did you see his face? I loved doing that. That was so much fun. Go ahead, explain, go on.

Speaker 2 5:03

No, no, no, no. Actually we're going to jump right into Wayne, but before we do that, I always talk on this podcast about if I was in charge we'd have a health economy and it would be based on helping people and giving people a leg up. Most of that is the origin of most of that is in my travels around the world. I've been to many, many countries. I traveled extensively when I was younger. Then I had children and I haven't been outside my zip code for 15 years.

Speaker 2 5:35

Once upon a time I would visit these far off places in the world and I would see superstars. I would see these kids with no education who were geniuses in one way or another. That doesn't necessarily mean intellect. It could mean sometimes they were musically inclined. Sometimes you would see and you see this all the time you see kids like a kid that comes from a place without means and then they pick up. I don't know spitballing, but they pick up something that's typically not that obvious, an instrument like a bucket and a couple sticks, and then they can drum like and you've never seen anything like it. You're like, oh my God, this kid is a God or a Goddess. You're just like. I cannot believe the inherent skill that pushed through every other thing to come to the forefront. The kid found it. So many children around the world just don't have that help when they start. This is where the help economy comes from.

Speaker 2 6:39

I remember I met this man in Nekru in Kenya. His name was Francis and he owned a machine shop. I say owned, owned, as loosely he ran a machine shop that he did everything every day. He had built this metal lathe out of it was like if a Hollywood prop company put together pieces from 15 different things. You know what I mean. If you said, take the most creative artists you can find, disassemble this diesel truck, disassemble this backhoe, take all these pieces and see if you can make a metal lathe out of it. I promise you, like the Hollywood, this guy did it for real. He had no education and you would talk to him and you're like. First of all, he was a wonderful man. I'm going to get choked up because he passed away.

Speaker 1 7:28

He got tuberculosis and died only like a couple of years after.

Speaker 2 7:33

Yeah, he was, and all he would do was help people and he would teach everybody around him and bring people in and he would give people chances. He just helped everybody. His machine shop was always brimming with. It was an outdoor shop first of all. He didn't have any, there was no shop. It's just a place where he was able to bribe the powers that be to leave him alone there long enough. Then people would take there was these people. This is horrible. I remember so off topic already, but there was. I just find it fascinating there's.

Speaker 2 8:07

They have no in Kenya when I was there. I don't know how it is now, but when I was there last they had no formal trash system. So what happens is the trash in many places in the world, the trash goes wherever the rain takes it and ends up in these huge, huge formate like almost like land masses of trash. And then, at least in Kenya at the time, some families lived on the trash and picked through it and they were called trash pickers and they would find little things and then they would bring them to Francis as a machine shop and he would pay them for cans and things like that. And then he had these kids that would cut the. You know, if you have a can, like the edge of it is kind of hard, it's like folded over and it's kind of hard, and then it's not, and then the part you cut is softer and thinner. So he would take and piece out the cans and then use them for different things and they'd make bracelets.

Speaker 2 9:00

And I'm like I'm just watching this guy and I'm like, oh my God, he's so amazing. He's amazing the people that are so they have such ingenuity are amazing. They have this whole group of artists there. They were amazing. And I'm like, okay, like what is it Like? It's just like some people in the world, just they don't have a way to figure out what they're good at. And so the thought behind the help economy is if people want to help and I know this is what boss is going to talk about, and she knows far more than I do and she's been waiting to curb, stop me for like half a week over this and listen, I boss, as in most things, I defer to your greater knowledge, but I will say that, like the goal of it, the premise behind it, was if people are open to being helped, boy, wouldn't it be nice if we had a world that that had a systemic way to help them. We say systemic and now it's always so dirty because everything we say that has systemic is gross and bad, yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 10:03

So I do not actually want to ruin that idea. I think it is beautiful that you think that people who are looking for guidance should be able to find it. I think that there's a lot of baggage around the word help and who is deserving of it and what makes them need it. Even to the point where, in a lot of ways, if you don't have somebody that is already helping you, that is a sign of some sort of deficiency in you. I'm not saying that, that's what you're saying. I'm saying that historically in the charitable world, there was this sort of idea of we, being upstanding, moral citizens, are going to help this poor, depraved soul in order to get them to a place where they should be, and that sort of help doesn't actually do anything. It doesn't help. It is a way for people who have money to actually instill and continue implementing their idea of morality onto other classes. So that could become very difficult. And, by the way, I should say that this is all in my background in the nonprofit world. This is the shit that we talk about, like I'm an accountant, but this is the shit we talk about. How do we make these things happen?

Speaker 4 11:18

So I realized that what struck me was Castleton, when you talked about the help economy in this episode. The first time it was in regards to Donna. So, donna was the first time when you were, and we might have mentioned it before, but especially in this episode, you were like you know. Donna seems smart and vibrant and charismatic and quick on her feet. Why the hell is somebody, the seemingly talented, stealing purses to run scams with her daughter at the Courtyard Marriott? Great question, totally understandable, like why is she stuck with Bobby Luchetti? Which, of course, led me down a rabbit hole where I'm like okay, bobby Luchetti, in his defense Dean Winchers is placed such an excellent dirtbag one that I can't even be attracted to, but I sort of forget that he is in fact a decent looking actor.

Speaker 2 12:12

That's the funniest goddamn thing you've ever said. Yeah, he's that, he's that, he's such a dirtbag Totally Even you. I was like, wow, okay, yeah, that is a hell of a thing, because we've seen some of the people you're attracted to and it's scary, oh man.

Speaker 4 12:32

I should. I should quickly mention I know that David Tennant's doctor and Donna Noble on Doctor who Need to Stay Platonic, but there's a scene in the most recent episode where she is upset and he grabs her hand and gives it a kiss and puts it to his heart in order to comfort her. And I needed to take the morning after pill four solid times because it got me so pregnant. Oh, my God, it's really really oh my God, oh my God, david Tennant, you're so like both of them, anyway.

Speaker 2 13:04

So, dean, Winters, not dirtbaggy.

Speaker 4 13:06

No, he's not except in, except in Good Omens, which obviously I do enjoy that. Okay, wait, but here's the thing. Dean Winters do you guys know how old he is in real life? This, this good looking man who I'm not attracted to.

Speaker 3 13:19

I would think 40.

Speaker 4 13:21

60. He is 59 years old. This year he is 59 years old. Oh yeah, I guess he was on rescue.

Speaker 2 13:31

Yeah, he's been around for a while, but now I would.

Speaker 3 13:34

I still wouldn't get 60, even if I thought about it.

Speaker 2 13:36

God damn beaut for that.

Speaker 3 13:38

Right, that's crazy, that is unfair.

Speaker 2 13:41

That's crazy, what an asshole. Yes, exactly, these were all the things when I was doing this research.

Speaker 4 13:46

These were all the things. I was like son of a bitch. That guy is 60. I do not believe that Bobby Luchetti is 60. Like he doesn't have the skin care. There was no possible way, bobby Luchetti. And also, of course, this show was filmed. It was it aired at least four years ago. It probably was filmed before that, so he's like mid 50s. I do not believe that for Bobby Luchetti.

Speaker 2 14:09

I would be willing to believe that he is in his late 40s and in this scene that the earliest possible age he can be when he's knocked up Donna when they were 17 or 60.

Speaker 4 14:21

Oh, were they 17 though? Were they both 17? Because she definitely was. He was definitely not.

Speaker 4 14:32

There is no chance that Bobby Luchetti was not a 27 year old man who knocked up a 17 year old Donna, and this is why it becomes such an issue for me. Is that way? You look at Donna today, as a grown woman with three children who has been married for 20 years, and we're like you're so charismatic and smart and funny, and why are you stuck in this town with this oath of a husband? Well, it's because society let him knock her up when she was 17. And nobody said shit about it. Like she does not need assistance right now.

Speaker 4 15:08

What she needs is to have grown up in a society that valued women enough that we wouldn't let 17 year old girls be abused by grown men, and so it's why, when you looked at Donna and you were like, oh well, she would have benefited from a health economy, I felt like, oh wait, wait, no, no, no, no, she would have. She might have been fine if she had been on her own, if she had never met Bobby. She might have gone to community college and fucking gotten out and lived in Boston or whatever else. Like, I'm not saying that she would be inventing the hydro car or anything. I'm saying that her life wouldn't have been this if we had much bigger methods of handling what it was that injured her.

Speaker 3 15:51

I love that and I love paying attention to it. Here's why I think a lot of it's like the whole idea of like, oh, we're going to give out sandwiches, which we should write if somebody is hungry today, I'm not going to say no, no, no, I'm not going to feed you because I've got to go fix the systemic issue, so I so feed them and yeah, so I get it. But I think you're spot on and I would argue for Bobby too. I mean, what you just said is absolutely on point and I don't want to diminish it or make like, oh, everybody's victim here, no, like if he is that 27 year old guy and she's 17, which actually seems plausible and, as you say, and I think about the dynamic here, but it's kind of gross, but anyway.

Speaker 3 16:46

But you know, so, yes, he needs to be held responsible for that. But I also think like there's so much work to be done and that's why I like what you're pointing at. It's really like it's a whole cloth thing. It's not just him and it's not just her, it's not just this family. There are a lot of broader issues that we need to be addressing, even down to I would be so sensitive around a girl this age saying she's going to run for student president. I'd be so intentionally encouraging you listen, you listen, coach.

Speaker 2 17:27

No, no, I get it, but I'm saying that we have to like.

Challenges in Promoting Equality and Love

Speaker 3 17:29

If we don't create a space where that's just sort of how we do it, then I think you just gonna get the results we've been getting like we're gonna have to like spend like 50 to 100 years like jumping up and down like lunatics for girls to do X, Y or Z because we are. It's not just like, oh, we just start here Like we've got to make up the staggered yes, yeah, no, and I absolutely agree with that.

Speaker 4 17:56

I think part of the issue for me is that there isn't a way the idea of making it a big deal that a girl would run for president, like we need to walk this very fine balance of being encouraging without saying like, oh, this is so great because women usually don't do this. Like there needs to be that element where you don't accidentally limit what a girl believes she could do by saying you could be like that's a Sarah Silver joke.

Speaker 4 18:26

Yeah like, like. I think that in a lot of ways, what you do need to do is remove the obstacles that would impede somebody's growth and then let them do whatever the fuck they want.

Speaker 4 18:38

And then if Della ends up not wanting to run for class president, that's fine, because she wasn't held back, because she's a woman Like. I think that that's obviously for a lot of people sort of the utopian goal and therefore very hard to actually get. But I think that that's the direction that people need to move in, even to the extent that when we saw Bobby Luchetti in the first episode, nobody thought like, oh well, what does this guy need to help him? What are the things that we needed to, the difficulties we needed to take away from his life so that he didn't end up like this? Because we feel better about helping people, that we feel more compassionate towards, which means that the people that are causing a lot of fucking problems for the people around them aren't the ones getting any help. Because we think that guy's a fucking dick, I'm not going to help him. Why would I? Why would I do anything nice for that?

Speaker 3 19:30

I wish I could remember the specifics of this. I may have shared it before. I'll be quick. I've been watching some Netflix docs on psychedelics and stuff like that and there's a therapist who specifically spoke to the point you're making, which is everyone has all the sympathy and tears and empathy and all this in the world for abused children, but 15 years later, when they're breaking car windows to you know, to self medicate and have a drug habit, nobody gives a shit about it. And I thought that was so and he was like, having served both, I am telling you we are talking about the same population, separated by time, and I thought, wow, that's so um, it's so deep and it speaks to what you're saying. Who deserves help? How do we provide it? You know all those things.

Speaker 3 20:29

I'm going to put another layer in here, which is, I believe the word we're looking for is love, and I know we've had different conversations around love before, but for me, in the definition like I've landed on, is the investment in the optimization of outcomes for someone or something. And I believe that if we in this society, if whatever, if consistently, we said that's what we're looking for, we're looking for the best possible outcomes across the board in this country, you couldn't have some of what we're describing because it would be antithetical to how we operate. And a Cornell West said you know, justice is what justice is what love looks like in public, and I took that in terms of like organizational stuff to equity is what love looks like in an organization and. But I think those things are important and they're how we do what you said, which is like we don't have to go case by case and go oh, my goodness, dell, you seem really talented and charming, we're going to help you along. Like we don't have to help you over the hurdle because there is no hurdle anymore. We got rid of the hurdles.

Systemic Inequality and Collective Action

Speaker 3 21:42

And I think if we thought of it, if we could get people to think of it in terms of love, saying that's easy, but just saying if we're just describing this, I think that would serve us like how in a how. If we actually thought in terms of love, could you possibly say oh, you've got cancer, sorry, your job doesn't cover medical coverage, so you're just going to sit there and suffer. Yeah, we just couldn't do it Like it just be like what, like all right, all right, all right, all right.

Speaker 2 22:12

I got to jump in Because that's the as the reigning white man on the on the podcast. I can't, I can't listen to any of my better days. I can't listen anymore of this fruity black guy and shrill woman complain about imaginary systems that keep them down. Coach, you know you, just if you get cancer you got to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, baby.

Speaker 3 22:38

I know, you know, yeah, and he boots and he's boots, but yeah it's all about the boots.

Speaker 2 22:45

Get some boots up your set. That's right, you're right. Here I am spouting about the help of kind of I took over via help economy, yeah, no, no, you're right, that's more of a more of a 300 400 year down the road kind of goal. But we'd have to get past the systemic, hegemonic misogyny and racism that were that's destroying our civilization. But but, yes, you're right that there are priorities ahead of that.

Speaker 2 23:17

I'm very sorry If, if I, if I, ever I wasn't listen. It's just me being everything. I just complained that coach was being. I'm just, I'm just a bleeding heart for little kids and people in need, and I hate seeing, I hate knowing, even right this second, while we're recording this, our listeners are driving or they're working out or they're, you know, have us on in the background while they're, while they're working from home, and there are people suffering right now and I go, I just, I just want them to get help, I want them to be helped. If they want help, there's a, you know we talk about Ted Lasso saying like the saddest thing, you know, the worst thing, is to be sad and alone, and it's much better to be sad and together.

Speaker 2 24:01

And if you know, there are these moments where everybody in life is they just hit the end of their right, what they can take, and it comes faster now. It comes much faster than it used to because the world is much more complicated and much more deadly. It's like out to get us more than it was once upon a time in mass, so only because so much of the money is localized money at least I'm talking about our, our, our neck of the world, here in the United States of America. So much of the wealth is located with so many people, so few people, that it means like everybody else has to scrap and it ends up being like a hunger games.

Speaker 2 24:39

But people get to the point where they just they can't take anymore and the difference about whether they can take the next step is often do I have any option? Is there anyone that's looking out for me? Is there any? That's where you go. Oh, I got to call my dad. I haven't talked to my dad in 15 years, but I'm going to call him, or I'm going to call my uncle, or I'm going to call my aunt, or I'm going to. You know, my neighbor might give me a meal, or you know what I mean. Like it's like, whatever you need, is there one person out there who wants to help you? And I'm, and I just want it to be that we live in a world where, whatever the the ask is, the help is available for people that are seeking. So that's it. And yes, it is a is a pipe dream, I'm aware.

Speaker 3 25:20

Well, you touched on something, though, because sometimes I get why you say it's a pipe dream. And I get, I don't, you know, I get that piece. I also think there's a pet peeve of mine, so I'll go ahead and share it. When people say, well, it's the real world, well, guess what Fuckers? We're the real world Like. We make decisions every goddamn day about how we're going to be and what we're going to reward and what right.

Speaker 3 25:46

And so when we say, as you just pointed out and I think it's all through this entire conversation, whether we pointed out or not that there that wealth has been absolutely centralized, the wealth gap has been increased, all these kinds of things that If it's not a conspiracy, one of the key things I learned from Daphne, which he was in law school, is that people don't have to discuss a conspiracy for it to be a conspiracy, and so you don't need all the billionaires to get together in a room and go, hey, I got an idea, let's steal their wages and their value add and let's just hoard it, and in that way we can just create foundations that do whatever the fuck we want and pretend that we're doing good.

Speaker 3 26:34

But I think the rest of us have to recognize that when we're pitted against one another in these competitions, we're like, well, we can either get someone their cancer meds or we can feed kids in school and we actually get in a fight about that. That's us accepting a scarcity model that keeps us in a lot of things that we are presently talking about, because there is way more than we need. There should not be a hungry person on earth who wants to eat?

Speaker 1 27:10

Like just fundamentally, or a mentally ill person who can't get treated.

Speaker 3 27:15

It's just you know, like this act, all the scarcity we like, pretend is so, like it's the real world, it's manufactured. That brand of scarcity is manufactured scarcity and we have to recognize that. And I think a lot of things we're talking about removing hurdles and so on is going. No, we're not going to. We're not doing that. I mean the whole student. What the whole student loan conversation doesn't take us into and then I promise I'll say something related to this show is the whole student loan thing is making school fundamentally so unaffordable, while suppressing wages and increasing the wealth gap, that people take out totally predatory loans in an attempt to play catch up in a game that's rigged and then we say that they are irresponsible for having taken out the loan. But if they don't take out the loan and they don't go to fucking school, then they're poor because they're lazy and they don't even want to get in it.

Speaker 3 28:20

But it's all manufactured. There's no look at what we're able to do online right now. There's no reason anyone who wants a college education shouldn't be able to log on to wewilleducateyoucom and just fucking go. Like some portion of the people we're saying are wasting their lives on Instagram would wander over there and we'd be the better for it. That's the part that drives me fucking nuts, Like when we have too much talent, we have too much knowledge in the world, we got to keep people ignorant and fucked up, Like what's happening right now. Yeah, yes, Anyway. The most wasted resource is human resource. I've been saying that for years. I will die saying that. It's absolutely outrageous.

Speaker 4 29:06

Yes, absolutely, and thank you so much for bringing up the scarcity model, because there is an actual dollar figure that people have been able to put on to ending homelessness and ending food insecurity, at least in the US. I can't speak to outside of the US and what that would require. The issue is not that we don't have the resources. We do have enough money, enough food, enough homes to finish it. So that's why I sort of balk at the idea of the peer-to-peer assistance there are a lot of times when mutual aid is fucking great.

Speaker 4 29:47

When a bunch of people can band together and take care of somebody, absolutely fucking wonderful. I love that. The issue was that, from a peer-to-peer perspective, we unfortunately are never going to be able to donate our way out of this kind of systemic inequality that creates the issues where some people need more than other people need.

Speaker 3 30:06

And what you shared last time I thought was so fascinating. I mean, it makes sense, right, but that people, the more you move down in economic class, the higher you move up in percentage of let's call it personal whatever economic value or whatever the higher percentage of my money, my resources, that I'm going to be willing to give to help others, and so then what you have, which is amazing, is the have-nots helping the have-nots on a certain level in a more intense way than those who've gotten abundance.

Speaker 3 30:48

That's built on the system that created the have-nots. So, anyway, I'm with you on laying that piece out, and we're not going to be able to donate our way out of it. I think is an important thing, because it's a hiding place, it's a way for us to look at somebody sleeping on a fucking grate and go. Somebody ought to do something about that. I'm sorry, somebody ought to do something. Who's in charge here? Who do you exactly?

Speaker 2 31:17

I had a Roy Kent moment recently where a friend of mine was meeting with her college roommates and it was like a girl's, you know, they're our age and they're all getting together and sort of. I dropped in to say hello and meet everybody up for a drink and while we were talking about it, the big we're just, like, you know, catching up college stuff and the big sort of reveal was that one of the friends had like just kind of started dating a billionaire, oh Jesus. And so there was like a lot of excitement around that. You know, like that was the thing you know. And so I was listening for a while and and then I just kind of let it go, let it go. And then I was like, yeah, but is he cooler? Like what's he? Like?

Speaker 2 32:13

It was, it was so focused, so blind and like these are really good people, really smart people, very progressive women, but they still were. It was still that thing, like, and I was like what is he like super fucking cool? Because this is the woman who was dating and her husband had passed away and he was, it was. It was six or seven years ago now and this is like the first person she's sort of getting back but and like, and then she, she sat back and she thought, because I was like, don't you fucking settle for fine.

Speaker 2 32:46

Your husband was great, he was the best dude ever. And then she's like she stopped and she sat back and she's like huh, she's like no, he's not great Actually. No, you say no shit. Yeah, she's like no, he's actually a little, a little bit boring. Now that you say that I was like it's just that I get wrapped up in it's big every time we go to Dubai. We're in the front of the thing and we're in the yeah, it's like a little bit like a keely dating. Jack, that dynamic that's exactly what I thought.

Speaker 2 33:16

He opens every door. You know, it's like they're always in the top suite, they're always in the whatever and she's like actually, now that you think about it, he's not that interesting in jet, like when you take all that away one on one.

Speaker 3 33:29

And you know it's interesting. You know this is an aside from there. Fine, make that choice, but also understand what you're playing into when you do that. It wasn't quite a billionaire, but I remember being at a dinner with some of Daphne's friends and you know this guy had his own. This woman who was there was now dating a guy who had a plane and just the like energy that went through. I'm like talking about, these are like powerful, professional women and everybody was just like, oh, and I remember having a feeling like, wow, we very quickly fall into like our old shit. Yes, yes, very quickly.

Speaker 2 34:10

Or like whoa, what just happened here?

Speaker 3 34:11

Yeah, it's, interesting.

Speaker 2 34:13

And in your resume stops mattering, or your pedigree At some point. It's really weird because, yeah, exactly what you said, like because these are powerful capable.

Speaker 3 34:20

Yeah, like they don't need anybody to take care of them, but they're. But the energy has some of that and I think we're wired, we're, we're, I think we would. The majority of us would be horrified to really unpack what's wired in here and what of the things that we think are so beneath our thinking and blah, blah, blah, are absolutely part of how we see the world and you know we can be working on, do it, but it gets in there early and often.

Speaker 2 34:53

Yeah, and it stays and it stays.

Speaker 2 34:55

It's really. I always talked. I said this in season one when we were going over Ted Lasso. I remember saying, like I hate the fact that we're judged initially for our looks instead of like how awesome. I wish you could take one look at someone, disregard their looks and then have an aura around them that that identifies the color of how or size. Let's say they did more awesome. They are the bigger they have a big aura right and you go oh my God, that that woman is amazing. Like who? Then then looks would come into play and you go okay, let's suckered it.

Speaker 3 35:26

You know, like sorry, we suckered in the butter cups. This is all our big promotion for banter. We're so excited to bring banter on. That's right. Keely Jones came up with a great app. You know, from what I hear, we've got bosses falling in love with their employees who are less than half their age. All very exciting. Everybody. Get on banter and learn about each other's auras. Back to you, coach Cassiton.

Speaker 2 35:56

Thank you. Thank you, coach. Yeah, anyway, got boss, I cut you off. What were you saying?

Speaker 4 36:01

Oh, I don't think you did. But the only thing I'm going to say and I'm not trying to like ruin either of the ideas that you guys have presented here One of the things Bishop, you talked about this being a form of love and, Cassiton, you talked about how you feel bad for abused children and you want to make sure that they are taking care of. Obviously, I'm going to disagree with both of those things. I'm going to say that it's important, but obviously, but I do think that it's sort of important.

Speaker 2 36:36

The kid probably had it coming right boss.

Speaker 4 36:37

Well, I think that it's sort of important to recognize number one that sometimes feeling love prevents people from helping other people in the way that they need to, that there is a form of dispassionate charity where what you do is the thing that needs to be done, because you know that it's the right thing to do. This is the way that I approach all of my nonprofit work, which means that I don't really fit in at the organization where a lot of the culture is. We love each other so fiercely and we want to do so much good. We are a team and like a lot of tears and I'm like I'm here because we need to get a fucking job done and I can do that fucking job. There's that side. There's also Castleton. You just said that you want people to not be like too invested in how people look or how much money they have or all those other things.

Speaker 4 37:32

I think that the real point of charitable advocacy or activism is that, while you might feel badly for the child that is being abused, we recognize that the way to fix that is actually to help the abusive parent so that they stop abusing their child. That's hard for people. People do not look at an abuse. I don't look at my stepdad and think like, oh well, you needed help, that was the issue that you needed somebody to help you out. I think fuck that guy, that's because he was abusive to me, so I get to say that. But society needs to step in and say like, hey, this grown man with a fucking drug addiction needs some assistance, and so somebody needs to be there to help them.

Speaker 2 38:19

No, no, listen. I think my point when I was talking about Donna was I was trying to say that everybody in the family could use help. Bobby Luchetti is not a throwaway for me. I think he's got some. If you could crystallize what his skill sets are, he's got a real hard edge to him. It's like, oh, in certain careers or certain fields that might be a real advantage to be like he's got. He'll go right up to a cop and be like what are you going to do? Like Darren, I'm just like he does not recognize, like in some ways, like maybe he knows no fears. You know, whatever, whatever, maybe that would be an advantage.

Speaker 2 38:59

I know a guy who is a former Navy SEAL and he repairs the props that he calls them the screws on the back of subs and he has to do it in all kinds of conditions and all over the world and he's supposedly a private contractor, though I always give him side-eye whenever he says that. But you know what I mean. It's like maybe that's about it. Bobby Luchetti had that kind of skill set. Maybe it's like, yeah, he's not a free. He's like, yeah, drop me in the North Sea, I'll fix that fucking prop. You know, it's like if he just I promise you nobody ever believed in Bobby Luchetti and of course you know. Then he pays it forward and is terrible and it makes Dale feel terrible and Carl and Teddy are utterly without affection of any kind. The nicest thing we've ever seen anyone do to them on the show is when Dale called just to wish them happy birthday.

Speaker 3 39:55

I'm with you, coach, but again and this is partially the coach in me it's such. It's so wasteful, Like it was, like almost like we have an investment in being like. You didn't show up exactly the way we wanted you to look when you showed up and the we being those who already have right and therefore you are worthless and it's a real like. I think it's a like yes, it's bad for Bobby Luchetti, but I think generations of this has become really bad for the country. I think it's actually as much as we're talking about this in terms of words like charity, I think it is bad.

Speaker 3 40:40

Economics, I think it is bad right, I think, societally, we are fucking up. This is stupid. And I tell people all the time if you had a coach of your favorite team who routinely just decided they didn't like the eight people in this row of lockers and they weren't going to play them and they weren't going to figure out how they could contribute to winning a championship, you'd want that fucker fired. That's ridiculous. You've got talent in the room and you got to maximize the talent in that room. You got to optimize the talent in that room and we just don't hold ourselves to that standard.

Speaker 2 41:18

I'm not saying that. This you know, you're right, coach, you're absolutely right. And I'm not saying that these issues are not without nuance. I remember seeing, you know, in many, many countries all over the world, you have UN refugee camps, and so what has happened is, one time or another, refugees fled from a place of persecution to another country and they set up a refugee camp, and now what you have is you have the third generation of children born into refugee camps.

Speaker 2 41:44

The only world they've ever known is a world where they are taken care of and protected and whatever. I mean I don't want to make it sound like they're little Lord Fauntleroy, but they are there is funding to continue to feed and clothe and house the people in the existing camps. These camps are horrible. I mean it's not like a great place to live. But again, if you're the third generation born in the camp and anyone you know has ever been born in the camp, it's this self-perpetuating thing. And then if you say like, well, let's get them out of the camps, let's get them back into society, whatever, then this is where people start to.

Speaker 2 42:23

It sounds like a very conservative platform of like pull yourself up by your bootstraps and who's the person to judge when it's appropriate for any of these people to be reacclimated and what are the conditions around which that is morally acceptable? So these are very, very complicated issues being discussed by people far smarter than me, but I think again the very basic layman's hope. When I look at all these people struggling and not even knowing why they're struggling, you know what I mean. It's like even if they tried to solve the problem, they probably couldn't identify it properly and they'd miss the sort of locus of where the issue is coming from. You know it hurts to watch it and I always say humans beings are so messy. Anytime you get a human involved in anything it's going to get messy. So this is just the net result of what I see as sort of apathy. You know, abject apathy for our fellow man, and it's just hard to watch sometimes.

Speaker 3 43:42

For sure, for sure, before you press play. I know we have been sitting here with them at the table for a moment now. I just noticed something about this on an art front. So I know we've been talking about sort of the greater societal implications of some of this stuff. But if you we're looking at a shot of Dell's foregrounded on the left of the screen and then we're looking at the other four sitting at the table and you have the picture, you have a portrait of life and death. I just saw it. So on Donna's side you have trees in a little painting that are alive and vibrant, and on damn it, ruchetti side I can't think of Bobby On Bobby's side you have like bare trees that are washed out and the light is coming from outside and shining.

Speaker 3 44:38

On her side of the table, the trees much more so in darkness, and even which twin they have. You know, the twin on her side is in green and gray and has light, and the twin on his side is in almost all black with a little bit of red which we contrast with the green and is on that. So I feel like we're actually being shown here a bit of how we can think of this family and I probably wouldn't have. They're probably taking a bit more viewing to pick up on that, but I don't think that's a coincidence, specifically because I did something very similar to it in Dinner for Two. So I was very sensitive to like, oh, wait a minute, there's a portrait behind the table. We should probably take a look at that. Yeah, so there you go.

Agreement on Providing Help and Housing

Speaker 4 45:26

I love that you notice that I would not have. I also love that, unfortunately, donna is the parent that ends up passing away, because obviously the scene isn't accurate and I feel like it's time to move on. I think the only thing, casselton, I want to make sure everybody knows that you and I are in agreement. You want people to receive the I'll just say help, because you like the word help, but I'm good with help that you want them to get the help that they need in order to live a fulfilling life. The only thing I am going to point out is that one of the things you said was Bobby Luchetti has this skill set, that he can talk to cops, that he could be a part ass, that he could do these things, all this other stuff.

Speaker 4 46:16

One of the things I will encourage anybody who thinks that I know what I'm talking about whatsoever to do is to disengage the idea that people should receive assistance because of their inherent value. They shouldn't. You don't give somebody assistance because they are a good person, or they are smart, or they are talented, or they are deserving. You give them help because that is the best thing for everyone in society, if only in order to reduce the harm to which Bobby forces on his family members. You help him so that he doesn't do that to other people. I don't give a shit about Bobby Luchetti. I swear to God.

Speaker 4 47:08

There are probably a bunch of people that my organization helps that I would think like, well, fuck that guy, I don't really care for them. You don't do it because of the person you are helping. You do it in order to better everybody's condition. I think that that's the idea behind the systemic changes that I was talking about, because you really do need to separate. Yeah, that person was an asshole. Also, they need to have an apartment that they live in in order to make sure that society is better. If you don't give a shit, if that person was an asshole or a drug addict or a cheater or any of the other shit, they deserve a house to live in and enough food to eat so that they do not die.

Speaker 3 47:49

That's a way of defining our culture and our society, which I hear you both saying.

Speaker 4 47:55

Yes, I think that that's the overlap. I think that my only pushback is you give people what they need because they need it, not because they deserve it.

Speaker 3 48:04

I get that.

Speaker 2 48:08

Okay, all right, thanks, boss. Thank you, no, no, I totally, 100% agree with that. There is no, but you and I are saying the exact same thing. When I was talking about Bobby, it was just oh, hey, maybe let's see what kind of fucking job this guy can have. Is there a job for a guy with his whatever, but is he inherently deserving of help? In my book, and it's just the. That's the baseline.

Speaker 3 48:40

Something I'll toss in and we can transition to where we are in the story. I'd also say taking advantage of what he has been through, like there's some things about how I show up in the world as a coach, like now in helpers might start their business. There's deeply grounded in shit that I went through that. Like we would say like no child should go through that and I went through it but also making room for the fact that people could bring like legit insight that we might not even be aware of because they've seen the world differently, and that also gets lost when we decide, oh, you are unworthy the ability to understand some of what you were pointing out for us.

Speaker 4 49:27

So anyway, no, I think you're right. I mean, like, when we jump back into the scene, one of the first thing that Bobby says is why does she care if people fucking like her or not? And there's an extent to what you're like. Well, don't be anti social Like if, if, if the entire world dislikes you, then maybe you're the asshole, but he's not entirely wrong in that.

Speaker 2 49:50

Especially. No, he's not entirely wrong. I don't know this year he's not. That's the whole thing. That's the whole thing. He's a realist Right Right now. It's a reality contest and that and it is. And and Bobby continues, I mean fuck them. If people aren't assholes now, they're going to be assholes later. Mark, my fucking words, dell. That's where he gets out of control. That's where he goes from from. That's where he goes from being a realist about what a what a you know great school election is as opposed to you know a larger worldview. Well, I don't want to say.

Speaker 3 50:30

I think people often blur, at the very most generous version I would say, is blur the line between cynicism and realism, and I have this conversational clients all the time and sometimes I'm just being realistic. It's like, well, you've told me 17 negatives in a row. That's not realistic because the world is in 100% bad either. Right. So, like I, where you identify that break, I agree because he says like why, you know, why should we give into the system? Sure, but if a pre so is, people are inherently assholes and will behave as assholes, according to the book of Bobby, which Eddie is like. Well, you just crossed over now. Some people are assholes. If you had said that, you'd be on point. But this is cynicism masquerading as realism.

Speaker 2 51:23

Yeah, yeah, and it's also again. We say it all the time If you meet an asshole in the morning, you're an asshole. If you meet an asshole assholes all day you're the asshole.

Speaker 2 51:34

Donna's happy to jump in and sort of redirect and she says you can't win a campaign without campaign posters. Huh. And Bobby's like, right away, who's going to pay for all this shit? Like he's such a you know whatever. It's just what an asshole. She says she's going to win this thing, mark my words. And she says you're going to pay. Like she stands right up to him and goes, yeah, you're going to pay. He says the waste of time, it's a waste of goddamn money. So yeah, you're climbing bellies, you goddamn gloomy.

Speaker 3 52:09

I like those like and at the door, we established some of this too. Bobby, I think some of the language he uses and the harshness with which he moves through the world has us describe him and think of him as bad in ways that he could just be coarse, Like, sometimes even I have to like dafty, sometimes I even and I just be talking about world politics, but I'll be like listen, first thing, this motherfucker needs to whip this motherfucker's ass and this mother, and there's n words flying around and she's finally. She's like okay, or like come on, this is the barrage already. So I think he who's going to pay for this shit? Like some of that is a bit of bluster. And she sees right through it and she's like I'll give it back to you the same goddamn way. God damn gloomy Gus, Give me the fucking money. Like I'm not, I don't give a shit. What do you think? I'm scared, I'll give a fuck about your attitude.

Speaker 2 53:14

They've definitely been down this road. Oh yeah, and that's why Dell was smiling. It's like how they talk.

Speaker 3 53:19

But what he doesn't, and maybe he doesn't care either. But what he doesn't realize is it works when Donna's there, because Donna can punch in his weight class metaphorically, sorry, but you know what I'm saying. But the kids, that's a power dynamic where you can't do that or you can, but it's not just because they can't come back, and that's why we watch the twins going in there and think we'd love for you to kick his ass, because this is bullshit. Also, if you guys go in there, he's going to both your asses and it's going to be really humiliating. So good luck. But so there's just no, you can't go at somebody who is punch. It's the whole punching down thing which I know. If there any comedians listening, they're going to be mad at me now because I believe in punching down and you're not supposed to believe in that. If you're a comic, I guess.

Speaker 2 54:13

I don't know. Oh, we're not opening up that can of words. Oh my God, I'm kidding.

Speaker 3 54:20

Keep going, keep going, keep going. We'll talk about it later.

Speaker 2 54:25

I was talking with. Yeah see, I don't want a name drop, but I kind of want to in this case.

Speaker 3 54:32

But I was talking with a comedian. I know you're talking about. You know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 2 54:34

Yeah, you told me and he's like a multi-million. Yeah, Like you know his name.

Speaker 3 54:39

I would love to debate it with him, but go ahead.

Speaker 2 54:42

Him and I were just going toe to toe about whether or not it's cool to punch down, and his perspective is so interesting.

Speaker 2 54:51

But, anyway, I hate when people talk about like, oh, I can't tell you this stuff. But in general he was very frustrated by the nature of you can't punch down and he would bring up all these really complicated scenarios and you know, talk about, you know how do you define punching down? When is punching down punching down? I remember one of the one of the things he brought up was Simone Biles and he was like okay, when, when is it punching down? If you're punching down because she's had some terrible experiences in her, like horrifying experiences, so she's out of bounds.

Speaker 2 55:30

But she's also like the winningest. She's like the Tom Brady of gymnastics. So is it, you know, like so, is that even it off? Does it make it go higher in the mind of the populace? Does it okay? Well, she's black. So then actually, that's kind of off off bound if you're like a white comic. But she's also like literally an alien from another planet because she's so much better than everybody else. So she's been gifted to be the best person in the, in the universe with her, like she's the best body in the history of all time. So like then does that even out the fact that she's grown up in a minority? Like, so like, and he's just. He's just like, like, so where do people line up? And he's like you will go and do a set and, depending on where you're doing the set, like, you'll find out exactly where people feel about those topics. You know, based on on the reaction.

Speaker 3 56:24

But anyway, let's not do it now. Let's not do it now, but I do want to have a broader version of this conversation because I have about seven answers to what you've already said. But I don't think we should do it now.

Speaker 2 56:34

Okay, so we get a moment here where Carl, you know the cat. The cat's still in the wall. Carl scree, we hear a meow and Carl yells at the table. I saw his head and he gets up and he runs into the wall.

Speaker 3 56:50

He trips and goes head first into the corner of the wall, not just into the wall, into the corner there. It's amazing.

Speaker 2 56:59

And what was the reaction from? From everyone at the table, Like, how did they react to Carl? Like hitting that wall as hard, like full speed, like knockout level, like amount of velocity into a hard corner. What was the reaction from everyone in the whole family boss?

Speaker 4 57:20

Stupid motherfucker. Did anyone help him? Look at the stupid motherfucker. No, I, bobby, says I swear to Christ I'm going to put him. Put him in the wall with a goddamn cat. Yeah.

Speaker 3 57:34

And then he says to to Donna you and I are raising a couple of fucking morons, you know that Now we're watching a show and we're having fun, but oh my God, like addressing this as a, as an event in a story that like this is a family, like how horrendous is that? Like what does it mean to to to live your whole life where your parents offhandedly not particularly angry? Or like oh wow, I can't believe I said that, but just as I go to take a sip of my beer, call two of the siblings in the house fucking morons to their face.

Speaker 2 58:15

I've seen it. You know what? When I was my first wife, her God was it trying to think how it was related. But somebody in her side of the family, their two daughters and the dad, called the older daughter princess. That was certainly oh boy, and the younger daughter was swill Jesus Christ. That's a real thing. And guess, guess, who grew up with bad self esteem?

Speaker 3 58:37

Oh, I'm gonna guess.

Speaker 2 58:39

I mean, like you just go, like, are you for real dude? Like I don't even understand?

Speaker 3 58:44

what sequence of events leads to a parent saying that that's so horrifying, anyway. But yeah, I, I saw when I watched the scene specifically, coach, you were, you were observing us watching it, and I actually enjoy it. I think it's funny. I thought of your family and how this is like the fucking inverse, because you told the thing of how, like, when somebody spills something in your family, everybody jumps up to help, the which I was like parenting fail. I wish I had a time machine so I could go back and institute that rule, because that is so in line with my worldview. But I never thought to like, push that issue, like, because it's one thing that sometimes you help, but it's another thing that, like, that is culture, that is what we do. It's not like maybe I'll do it this time. It's like no, no, no, that's what we do. If this happens, we all help and this is the.

Speaker 2 59:37

Coach, let me, let me jump in to say what for people that don't know people for the first time who haven't listened to our entire catalog.

Speaker 2 59:45

If somebody in our house spills something, yeah right, seriously, what are you doing? If someone in our house spills something, spilling is always the worst fucking feeling, like. If you're like, you know spills, somebody goes everywhere. You're like God damn it, like it's never awesome to spill things. Or if you knock over a bottle of water and it starts going all over the table, whatever it is, whatever there's a spill, we just say like that's whatever. It just happens.

Speaker 2 1:00:10

Now in the family, I don't know when, we we just sort of instituted it when they were little and it stuck. But it's like. It's an opportunity for everybody to help out because it always sucks, so like. But it always sucks significantly less If, like, you drop a whole bowl of potato chips, they go everywhere, right. And then around the edges of the potato chips, the far edges of the potato chips, you see a couple hands start picking up the outside ones and somebody comes with a broom and you go, oh my God, like, it's like, because it sucks so badly. That's why it's such a great opportunity for everybody to jump in and we just go. It always sucks and so that's like. That goes hand in hand with you. Never shit on someone for an accident Like if you bump somebody you like knock over somebody's trophy and it falls down.

Speaker 2 1:00:57

It's always like, damn, that was an accident, like because there's no intent. If there's intent, you go, okay, we can, we can, we got to talk about this, but there's no intent, it was just an accident, right? You know what I mean. How can you be mad about it? So anyway, yes, coach, thank you for for bringing that up. That's, that's something we you know. It's just right in the core, core values. It's amazing to me that no one helps Carl up when he hits up.

Speaker 3 1:01:18

I mean like they, like it's like not even Dell, like we hold Dell up as like this beacon of whatever, like it is of the culture of this family, like oh, there's stupid crock in his head against the wall again. I mean like oh my God, they don't even flinch, they don't even flinch.

Speaker 2 1:01:34

From a comedy perspective, this is hysterical.

Speaker 3 1:01:36

You know I love.

Speaker 2 1:01:37

You know, I love, love stupid characters and I love physical comedy and oh my God, these guys kill it, but from a dad perspective and a human perspective, like Carl getting up by himself and putting his head back on is a sad like I seriously could.

Speaker 2 1:01:53

I could start sobbing just because I'm like, oh my God, what he knows he's a lot like. Even his twin brother doesn't pick up his hat for him. His dad doesn't even turn around, he doesn't even look at him, nobody's even seeing if he's standing up, like I mean he says it.

Speaker 3 1:02:11

He says I'm fine. I mean or I'm all right. You know the next line I'm fucking fine.

Speaker 2 1:02:15

I'm like, thanks for asking. I mean like, and I'm with him.

Speaker 3 1:02:18

I'm like fuck y'all, hey, hey, I'm fucking fine, Right, you know. So to me it's like I'm with him, I'm like fuck y'all. But I think you know, as we have these conversations, I'm always fascinated by what we end up back on and the whole way we came into this. Whether we call it love or we call it help or we call it whatever right, it's a fundamental understanding that we're better off if we're all better off, and we just watched it dramatically, just be absent, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:02:52

And that feels more like the America I experienced and that drives me nuts than if everybody at the table is like, hey, you, all right, I'll grab the ice. So you do. You need ice, are you great? But, and what does that cost you? Ultimately, it really has cost you a little bit of a little bit of time and a little bit of empathy. That's really what it costs you.

Speaker 2 1:03:15

I want to point out that this is a flashback, so we're going back to when, in Del's childhood and Carl, the guy that ran into the wall, is the one that originates the concept of hey, let's keep tick daddy's ass.

Speaker 3 1:03:28

Oh, so yeah, we're already starting to see that he's the one kind of coming out of the spell a little bit.

Speaker 2 1:03:34

Right when he's like that's interesting. Is this awesome? I don't think so. All right, so, boss, walk us through the next scene. We cut to the school.

Speaker 4 1:03:44

It's Del, and I'm unfortunately not remembering her friend's name right now. Did we ever call her? Natalie.

Speaker 4 1:03:49

Natalie, there we go. Yeah, so they're walking down the hall bumping into people. Natalie is me when I have to walk around people especially. Oh God, god bless him. I just there's a. I have a very distinct memory I think I maybe have mentioned this of my father explaining to the four children constantly underfoot that's not where you stand, and I feel like I just need to shout that, like if I could get Pheasant from Princess Bride to just shout at people instead Everybody move. Either everybody move Thank you, thank you for the assist on that, I really appreciate it or or that's not where you stand, don't stop in the middle of the fucking sidewalk. There are people behind you and there are more people who need to keep walking, but anyway, they're talking about the blood drive. They're talking about Del running for president. Del is saying chill, we're just go table to table and ask, and Natalie is I don't know my anger translator saying like yes, we hate people, I hate people.

Speaker 4 1:05:00

I fucking hate people, like what. Yeah. I think there's a deep down, there's a little part of me that thinks if I work in nonprofit then everybody else will just leave me alone. Like if I promise that I'm going to do well through my job and like donate time and money and shit, can you just let me sit in my little hole by myself and get stoned and watch Doctor who, because that's all I really want from the world.

Speaker 3 1:05:23

I get it. What we have in common though we express it different ways is that we seem to both be fans of humanity, but not such big fans of humans. And it's a real thing. It's a real thing. Yes, I've been talking about this before. I love people, but individual people drive me fucking nuts and make me want to, like, put my head through a wall. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 4 1:05:45

Yes, yeah, mascale. I love people and reality. I love about seven Exactly.

Speaker 3 1:05:52

Exactly, a little subset. I call a handful A handful. I'm the other way.

Speaker 2 1:05:57

I'm the other way. I just I can't. They're so. Humans are so fascinating and they're all you know I love, I love it, I love the people, love talking to people.

Speaker 2 1:06:09

Well, natalie, and this is, you know, it's a difference. Natalie's like people suck and she knows people suck. Della's like all right, well, you know, I'm going to try, and she's got her hair all combed, nice, which is so. So it's almost painful to see her hair so like combed and pretty and not painful in a bad way. But you're just like, like there is this version of Del Right. And Natalie says like what do you? You're like weirdly upbeat or weirdly chipper, and she's like, oh, my mom's helping me run for class president and that's what that's, that's all the difference in the world, right, yeah? And Natalie can't believe. She's like your mom for real, like I guess, I don't know it's more surprising you putting yourself out there like this or your fucking mom being helpful. So Natalie knows, yeah, who she is. And of course, del has to stick up or I give her a break. You know she tries sometimes she has to qualify. Well, I think to.

Speaker 3 1:07:11

Del Del here is representing a lot of my worldview, which is like I remember having this conversation with my, my, my friend, he actually my best man at my wedding and he's so smart Like I feel like I've met a lot of fucking smart people and he is like top percentile even of that group and I and I've said to him before that we talking about me, yes, yes, I didn't know.

Speaker 2 1:07:35

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 1:07:38

No, but he said, I said to him at one point, seriously, I was like you know, you're arguably too smart. I said I am thankful that I'm a little less smart than you, because I'm just little below you enough to go yeah, I get it, it's bullshit, but we got to do it. This is it, we got to do it. He's smart enough that he can't even engage, because the minute he engages he's like this is bullshit and he's done with it. Yes, and I'm like, yeah, I get it. I have a son like that, I get it, I get it. But yeah, this is the world we're in and I feel like Del is bringing that, like all these people fucking idiots. Yeah, but could could lunch be better Also? Yeah, so let's go see if we can make lunch better for these fucking idiots.

Speaker 2 1:08:23

You're right. You're right. There are people who are so, so bright, they can't do it. They can't get to that little.

Speaker 3 1:08:30

Yeah, I can't do it and I get it. I get like when they, when he every time he said to me blah, blah, blah, it's bullshit, I've been like that is correct, also got to do it, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:08:43

That's the hard part. That's the hard part. That's how you get Ted Kaczynski, among other ways, but boss is shaking her head. No, he was a dumb man, boss, not like a dumb man. So so listen hold on, wait a second.

Speaker 2 1:08:59

I want to say that I always like to advocate for women and and and you, if you've taught me on this very show that you never. It's never about like individually whether people are worthy morally of help, but in our existence the mean girl dynamic, the, the teenage vicious, like, like, scathing mean girl is so terrifying and horrible and does such damage, like I think about, like what's the counterpart in the male world for the mean girl and it's like what the bully maybe or certainly in terms of like Film and TV.

Speaker 2 1:09:49

No, no. Like to put it in real world terms coach like film and TV in an effort to represent, you know whatever. That is a setup. It's a setup dynamics or drama. But what is that? What is the real world version of a male mean girl? What does that look like? What's how bad? Think about like what a mean girl, like the damage that a really, truly mean girl can do on the psychoses of others. Like who does she have a counterpart? That's a male, I don't know.

Speaker 4 1:10:19

Like so the first thing I was going to say is only that, because we've already talked about, because you mentioned Ted Kaczynski, I do want a TV show with Ted Kaczynski, ted Lasso and maybe Ted Mosby from how I Met your Mother.

Speaker 2 1:10:35

Just see how the different Ted's fair and different tasks, different events that's good, yeah, different, just see how they do Like amazing race style, like they've got a challenge and we get to see how they each get through this fucking group. This is a you just say very good SNL sketch.

Mean Girls and Psychological Damage

Speaker 4 1:10:53

Yeah, we just need a Ted off just to see who can do what. I think the issue is men do this sort of psychological damage all the time and we don't notice it as a mean boy type thing because we make women or we condition women to socially behave in specific ways. It is the same way that we think that women are more deceptive than men are, Like, just sort of across the board. They've done testing where they say like whose statement is more believable? And the words that we attribute to women are more deceitful than the ones we do to men. So women are more often described as conniving than men would be.

Speaker 4 1:11:38

Men might be strategic or planning, but that is because women are not allowed to be out loud with their either desires or what they're actually getting, what they're trying to get at, so like in in employment. One of the things that they will tell men, coach men about, is how to ask for raises, how to ask for promotions, how to say I did this work and so I need this. So giving women those exact same skills, they're less likely to get a raise because the person responsible for giving them a raise sees her asking for it as being demanding or as she wasn't worthy of it, or undeserving.

Speaker 3 1:12:20

I have to be honest with you, boss, I can't follow this point because you're so shrill.

Speaker 4 1:12:26

I know, I understand.

Speaker 2 1:12:29

Yeah, I was trying to make that point earlier. I'm sorry that women have it so hard, whatever.

Speaker 3 1:12:35

No, you went to a point you're making is really important. I'm sorry, I was, you know, doing what I did. Yes, jesus Christ coach, I could try to do the Mike. Johnson's voice with this.

Speaker 2 1:12:45

Yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 1:12:46

Like I don't know no.

Speaker 3 1:12:48

Is it me or did? Boss become more likeable there for three seconds.

Speaker 2 1:12:52

No, totally, you totally know that's not me.

Speaker 3 1:12:54

You know, that's not my style.

Speaker 4 1:12:55

You know that there are those people.

Speaker 3 1:12:57

Oh, for sure, For sure.

Speaker 4 1:13:00

But anyway. So I think that there is something about the way especially that the mean girls from the movie mean girls, but also in real life the way that they have to work in order to achieve the same things that they might want as a guy. They need to behave in different ways, and then we pinpoint those as being specifically horrendous that women do these things.

Speaker 3 1:13:22

It's also, oh sorry, go.

Speaker 4 1:13:24

No, no, no, Just that it's a lot of bullshit.

Speaker 2 1:13:27

Okay. So maybe that's what I'm reacting to. Boss is like, because of patriarchy, because of the hegemony, boys do all the damage throughout the course of their lives and spread it over. They spread peanut butter thin over the bread and the mean girls are like the crunchy peanut butter, where they stick up a little more and see these more key points across the surface. And maybe that's what it is.

Speaker 2 1:13:54

But I guess what I'm getting at is, oh my God, first of all, knowing this, the courage of Dell to go up to this table, and then how it immediately becomes everything we knew it would and she knew it would, and Natalie knew it would, and it's like it's so predictable and it's so. This is why I don't know Is this the well from whence Karen's Doth Spring? I don't know. It's like, is this the beginning of it? Or is this a reaction to the? I'm not going to say, I'm not going to exonerate men in that we contribute to a world we have formulated, a world where women are backing the corners everywhere they turn, in every possible scenario. I'm not saying that, but I'm saying, in this specific case, what is the? I'm actually asking, like? Why is the default here so predictable? Like, so common. There's a commonality to it across schools and middle schools and high schools all over this land and probably up in our, with our friends up in Canada, because all they have a few of these up there and you just got to.

Speaker 4 1:15:18

You know. So I don't have kids. I've mentioned that before. I do have young nieces and nephews and I have a very. I have a couple of very close friends who are both counselors at public schools both of which deal with high school students. So I'm not going to say that the show is out of touch, but I'm wondering a little bit if this is as accurate as it might have been when I was in high school 20 years ago. I think that there are some elements Interesting.

Speaker 2 1:15:50

I think I see it with Mike. I just see it. I see it on a daily basis. Wow, yeah, like it's, and maybe it's because it's doing that, I'm not saying that that's entirely possible.

Speaker 4 1:16:02

Yeah, yeah yeah, I just. It's sort of like my youngest brother is 12 years younger than I am, and so we all went to the same high school. When he started at that high school you know, a decade after I had left it I joked around with him and I said hey, don't let any of the upperclassmen trick you about smokers' corner. They're going to tell you to go to someplace. That's not where the kids smoke the cigarettes. They smoke cigarettes at this corner. And he was like what? And I was like it's a thing that seniors do. They're like oh yeah, if you go over this corner, that's where everybody hangs out, like then you just see one or two like lame freshmen who don't know what it is. The kids are all over at Smokers' Corner. He was like yeah, they don't let us smoke cigarettes before we go into school anymore, because this is after 1999. Right, so what you're telling me is nonsense, because they don't have smokers Smokers' Corner anymore, anywhere.

Speaker 2 1:16:57

Did you see the 21 Jump Street remake? Yeah, oh yeah, the movie.

Speaker 4 1:17:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:17:03

They had sort of a fun play on this when they went back and had pre-assumptions about how it was going to be yes about how it was going to be. The nerds and jocks and whatever.

Speaker 4 1:17:11

Yeah, and it sounds like dude, what the fuck are you? So I fully believe that there are mean girls still exist.

Speaker 2 1:17:18

Mean girls survive. They survive, yes, they do.

Speaker 4 1:17:22

But I think that, number one, it is done in different ways from what I understand from teenagers now, and the other thing is that there are mean boys now also, like I think the fact of the matter is that teenagers are both wanting to become wildly independent, while also being scared and incapable of handling a lot of things, and so they do shit in this bitchy, passive, aggressive, like we will make fun of you, but it's going to be in this way that you're supposed to be okay with, and don't get upset because then you're making a big deal out of it. I think that some teenagers are awful and that, outside of being a mean girl or a mean boy, that being unable to adequately confront emotion with other people leads teenagers to acting like assholes like this.

Speaker 3 1:18:09

Yes to all of that. I also think it's an interesting time. It's like the whole thing of like we all dress rebelliously and exactly alike, and so I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of imposed social order amongst a group of people who are making part of their identity that they are not going to succumb to the normal social order, and so I think you end up so when they say, you know, when you get, this is a gay straight, is this a gay straight alliance thing, straight alliance yes, right, it's supposed to like. All right, we're going to start right here, you and lesbians.

Speaker 2 1:18:53

That's the first salad Right Because but you're they walk up to the table Right and then the mean girl says is this a gay straight alliance?

Speaker 3 1:19:02

Because, because here you are, natalie, you know, in the context of what we're saying here here, you are not doled up, not having, obviously, you know, checked out all the latest YouTube, you know makeup videos and known exactly how to blend all this, as we all obviously do why are you stepping out of line, like that's what I'm saying? I think a lot of this hinges on is I don't want you to be different. I want you know, I want you to act like the rest of us and fall in line, and that that drives.

Speaker 2 1:19:37

I think. For me it's like how dare you approach this table?

Speaker 3 1:19:40

Oh yeah, no, there's definitely that. They are definitely the cool girls. I mean there's no Like I think there's mean girls that's not from the cool girls, but these are in this context. I took this as like these are the girls of the yeah.

Motivating Terrible People to Do Good

Speaker 2 1:19:54

Yeah, and personally, right away, is like I hate the people right away. And Dell, dell still keeps going. Well, we're holding the blood drive next week, you know. Or for our hockey team, you know, our goalie got hurt pretty bad, you know. He, you know he took a skate to the jugular, which actually happened in the NHL. The one point was really, yeah, they saved him, thank God, but he was Jesus, jesus Christ. And then he got up and he had a, had a couple of French fries and he was fine. They sold him back up.

Speaker 2 1:20:31

I also talk about the hockey player and I forget his name. Obviously it's such an idiot, but he took a slap shot in the first period in the face, got 36 stitches in the second period and came back and scored the winning goal on the third Hockey player. I just love it. Yep, hockey player, there you go. So Natalie knows like these girls are just being terrible. So she's terrible back. She's like the vein just ripped open. Blood was spurtin everywhere Like a fucking faucet. You know she's just making them uncomfortable. He almost bled to death right on the ice, a pair of. When the paramedics finally came, they're slipping inside and all the blood she's obviously just one of them actually threw up. It was a fucking shit show. And Dell jumps in yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know they were. They was able to save him thanks to people chipping in and donating their blood, much, much like you guys.

Speaker 2 1:21:18

So what do you think she's? She's, you know, she's appealing to the their better nature, which is which is based on the evidence we see in the scene Not a lot of that cooking. The first cool girl, I would say the cool girl prime. There's the alpha and the other alpha. They're both pretty, whatever, but I don't want to say beta, because that is different term, sort of context. These days the main girl says what's in it for me? And Natalie's like the satisfaction of helping others. And she's like do we get out of class? Like, at least. She's like all right, what do we get out of this? And Dell's like yeah, you get out of class. She's like should have just opened with that.

Speaker 4 1:22:08

I understand why that sounds horrible. I also would like to mention that there is an entire field of study about motivating people where, if it is effective, I don't give a shit what kind of good person you are. If I say, if you give me $25, you could go to this dance and get out of class. If that works, fucking great, let's do it. I don't need you to be a good person, I just need you to give me your money.

Speaker 3 1:22:34

Agreed. I also think something that I've been taught, and this is true I don't sell to yourself. They walked up to this table and they shared why they would want to do the blood drive, but they did not think about why these girls would want to do it. They are selling to themselves, which is part of the disconnection.

Speaker 3 1:23:01

I'm not saying these girls are wonderful human beings. I'm saying they weren't wonderful human beings before you walked up, so you needed to think about how to pitch them. The girls aren't wrong, even though she's being very nasty in informing them.

Speaker 2 1:23:18

I was playing Baldur's Gate 3 last week with a friend of mine and I just won Game of the Year on the video game awards last day, yesterday evening. It's a very good game. There's a NPC character who we had to reload a couple of times as we died, or something I played with a perfectionist who's obnoxious. This NPC kept telling him. Part of the dialogue was the NPC kept telling him why didn't you just start with that? Why don't you just open with that, Just like this girl did? It rubs my friend the wrong way so hard he gets crazy. He's like fuck you. He yells at the NPC and it's whatever. Why are you so triggered by whatever he's like? It's so insulting, if we're in a conversation, for you to step out of the conversation and then rate my approach.

Speaker 3 1:24:15

Yeah, I see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:24:20

Now you're analyzing my side of the conversation instead of being in the conversation. Be in the conversation with me, or don't. I could say fuck off from the start, but don't then step out and be like wish you had said that for whatever. I thought it was really funny when this girl says this Now Dell. But she's like okay, she's started that Dell absorbs that, which is cutting, and I think it's rude. And Dell's like all right, now I'm going to make the next part of the pitch. Hey, while I'm here, I'm also running for class president, so, if you know, maybe, if you like, maybe you could vote for me. And the girls visibly look at each other and then one girl laughs like, puts her head down and laughs. Yikes.

Speaker 3 1:25:12

It is what it is.

Speaker 2 1:25:16

Yeah, this is the this is. So. This is where your friend would be like these are terrible people and that's it, and you'd be like, yes, but you have to deal with them.

Speaker 3 1:25:24

That's right Right coach. That's exactly. That's it, that's exactly.

Speaker 2 1:25:28

These people exist and they're part of your community.

Speaker 3 1:25:30

He's already walking away, going fuck this.

Speaker 2 1:25:32

Yeah, right, and he's like this is not worth it in the decade. So instead of very quickly, sorry, I do need to mention it.

Speaker 4 1:25:44

Yes, it is bullshit that she puts her head down and laughs. But also what Dell needed to say was also I'm running for class president and if you vote for somebody, you get to leave study hall Like these women. The girls literally told her what they were looking for and then she came back at them again, selling to herself again Like they're not going to do it because they're good people. They're terrible people. How do you motivate terrible people to do good things? And that is by appealing to their terrible side while making, accidentally, tricking them into doing something good for you Donate blood, get out of class, vote for me, get out of class.

Speaker 2 1:26:24

Yeah, yeah. Well, dell learns that too late. After they laugh at her and give her eye rolls, she goes, she sighs and she's like I'll let you copy my English.

Speaker 4 1:26:31

There we go. That's how you win.

Speaker 2 1:26:33

Oh yeah, she's a fucking English savant. Natalie says I don't know what that means, Says the alpha girl to which Natalie goes. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 1:26:43

Hang up.

Speaker 4 1:26:45

And that is how she wins. That is how Natalie wins in this situation.

Speaker 3 1:26:49

But isn't it funny they're both representing what they're, being right Like. I think that girl might say she didn't know what it meant. Even if she knew what it meant, because in this group, why would someone want to know what that word means? Like right, like that's, like that's actual currency of like I'm not a nerd, whereas Natalie is like, yeah, I'm not trying to like, please anybody with my stupidity. So I know what words mean and I'm kind of happy about it. Like they both reinforcing what they, what they're doing, yep.

Speaker 2 1:27:27

I agree, coach. So she says, but with her doing your homework you won't have to. Natalie says so they think about that and she goes. That works for me. And now the second alpha girl. Who was the one who would laugh? Everyone else just looked at each other, but this is the girl who laughed and she says hey, didn't you and your dumpster fire of a mom get thrown out of the courtyard of a park hotel the other day? It's oxy right, not crack Ouch Like, or or is it both?

Speaker 3 1:28:02

Yeah, I mean. There's no version of the world where that's necessary. Like that is just like I mean, yeah, even in the meanness realm, like to really go after like, hey, I'm going to publicly discuss that your mother is a drug addict is pretty fucked up.

Speaker 2 1:28:27

Now, boss, what did you just say? You summed it up in one one and three, three words.

Speaker 4 1:28:32

Oh, she's a bitch.

Speaker 2 1:28:33

Yeah, and I should say.

Speaker 4 1:28:38

I do believe part of why they punched down the way that they do not say that punching down is necessarily wrong, but this sort of public exposure, this public humiliation, is in order to make herself feel better. We do need to like first address that. The reason the bully is doing it is because she feels shitty in other ways, and this is the way that she could make somebody else feel shitty and then she gets to feel better. So I would guarantee her home life is not that great.

Speaker 4 1:29:12

When I was younger and we were poor and my parents were getting divorced and then my dad died by suicide and a lot of other things that you would think children would not make fun of each other about. Yeah, no, it's fine, like listen, this is why you had to go to therapy. But when people would make fun of me, about my family in retrospect, me knowing anything about them now, I'm like, oh, okay, so that's what you had going on in your house. That shit was like that, like you needed to hit somebody else because you were not being treated well either.

Speaker 3 1:29:47

Also because if I make fun of it and everybody sees me make fun of it, then obviously it's like crazy, like going to my house.

Speaker 2 1:29:54

Yes, Can you?

Speaker 3 1:29:55

imagine. Yeah, so. Yes, yeah, it's ugly.

Speaker 2 1:29:59

No, this is where I would invoke the name of my guy, ray Schu Smith, who is the lead character in the Australian show Mr Inbetween, who always says you know why there's so many assholes in the world? Because people let them get away with it. Same with me, girls. Yeah, Because people let them get away with it. That's what he would say.

Speaker 3 1:30:21

I have. There have been some issues that I've bumped into around these parts and those who know me know you know folks not behaving well publicly. And I have said to Daphne the problem is, you all are, people are so decent, you're all so decent, yes, and you want the world to be pleasant. And I was like but here's the problem. They didn't realize I was sitting here with y'all and I don't really care if the world is pleasant.

Speaker 3 1:30:53

Pleasant is not on my list, like, just as on my list like, like there's words that are beautiful, that are on my list, pleasant is not on my list. I will make this motherfucking unpleasant, if need be. You know what I mean. And so I just think, yeah, I agree, I agree with that wholeheartedly, and I think those of us who have it in us like I don't think we should ask people in the world who just don't have that in them to do it, but I do think that those of us who have it in us need to go look, you're not just going to be making people feel bad things. If you behave that way, we're going to make life unpleasant for you.

Speaker 2 1:31:30

I believe in that wholeheartedly yeah, no really.

Speaker 4 1:31:35

This is why we have to love each other so much, because that's your version of he doesn't know who he's being a bitch to. Yes 100%.

Speaker 3 1:31:45

I will teach you who you're being a bitch to 100% where I'm like oh oh, you thought I grew up in this neighborhood. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, I didn't grow up here. No, here, no, no, sir, I did not grow up here, no, I didn't grow up here? Not at all.

Speaker 2 1:32:04

So, yeah, it's very interesting. This is where I would argue that Natalie is like both of you yes, and the only thing that stops her from going across that table and making that girl pay is her friendship.

Speaker 3 1:32:14

Oh yeah, Look at her. Look at her face. You would think she's at least as hurt as Dell right now. Look at her face.

Teenagers and Hypocrisy

Speaker 2 1:32:20

Yeah, yeah. And you'd say, oh, no, no, no, she's really truly being herself. She would defend her friend. But the whole point is she knows Dell, it'd be so mad at her. I'd say you lost me those votes. At least they may have you know, whatever 100%. She says, hey, ugly Betty, eat a dick. And the girl says you know what? I think I'll run for class president. Maybe my campaign could be, my platform could be crack as whack. And what does Natalie say in response to that boss?

Speaker 4 1:32:55

Yeah, I heard Eric Powers liked your crack. Hey, just because you take it in the ass doesn't mean you're still alive, you're still a virgin.

Speaker 2 1:33:07

Yeah, so fuck you, fuck you, yeah, and walks away double finger.

Speaker 4 1:33:11

I have to say I don't think that you needed the fuck you. I feel like it would have been better yeah. I heard Eric Powers likes your crack and listen. I am not into slut shaming, but I am very into hypocrisy, so it's shaming. So if this bitch thinks that she's better than other people when she's doing shit, she herself would not be comfortable with people knowing about her. Like, don't go throwing stones, Don't start shit. Don't start shit.

Speaker 2 1:33:41

That's me Well be shit, there you go Right, no, no, no, there you go. I mean, I feel like projection has become such a like an epidemic where it's like there's a whole segment of the population where it's like, if they say, you know, we're worried about you, you're stealing money from the bank account, you can be certain that they're doing that.

Speaker 2 1:34:03

They're stealing money 100%, you just go, it doesn't matter what the thing, and sometimes yeah, sometimes it's so crazy where you're like whatever, like we need to protect children from from gay pedophiles. You're like okay, great.

Speaker 4 1:34:21

So you're, you are a gay pedophile, so you have. So yeah, so you are.

Speaker 2 1:34:24

You asked your you like it's, it's crazy at this point and like it's like when? When do people wake up? When does, like the, the sleep come out of your eyes and you go, come on like it's so obvious, jesus Christ.

Speaker 4 1:34:38

Well, and I would also like to point out when was this? Maybe 10, 15ish years ago, there was an outbreak of specifically anal herpes within a community in Utah. Teenagers, yeah, no, it's because they spent so much fucking time.

Speaker 3 1:35:01

Yeah, I know.

Speaker 4 1:35:03

Instilling in their children, telling them if you have sex before marriage, god will not forgive you, it is bad, you cannot do that, do not have sex. And they were like got it? No sex, I'm just going to have butt sex and that's not the same. And then I'm still a virgin and everything it's like. Of course, this is what people are going to do. They're going to find loopholes. If you say you cannot have sex before marriage, then you end up with college students at Brigham Young University doing something called soaking, which is where you don't have sex. It's not sex. It's not sex because you just put the penis in and then leave it there and you don't move.

Speaker 4 1:35:41

And as long as you yourself are not humping, this is not sex and you are still okay with God if you asked your college roommate to jump on the bed so that there is friction, but you are not humping. This is still okay. Don't be gay. It's not okay to be a gay. Can't be in a loving relationship with somebody of your own gender. But this loophole that we found, this is fine. Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 1:36:08

It makes perfect sense to me, boss. It's totally rational to have somebody jump on the bed while you're soaking.

Speaker 4 1:36:19

You are inside of somebody else. You have a friend, jump on the bed and this is what Jesus wants you to do. This is what he came here to tell you about.

Speaker 3 1:36:29

I mean, I've said it before and I'll say it again Jesus was a freak. His biggest story involves 12 men in a cock. Just don't ever forget that. I wrote that joke years ago. I love that joke. I love that joke like it is. It was one of my children. I love that fucking joke. He was a freak 12 men in a cock.

Speaker 2 1:36:49

12 men in a cock.

Speaker 3 1:36:51

Remember he's denied three times. Peter denied him three times. Before the cock crowed three times Peter denied him.

Speaker 1 1:37:00

Oh Jesus, he denied him three times before the cock crowed.

Speaker 3 1:37:03

Yeah, sorry. So yeah it's 12 times, yeah it's 12 men in a cock.

Speaker 4 1:37:09

I didn't cover that one the two times I went to church as a child.

Speaker 3 1:37:12

So I like that joke still Appreciate it All right.

Speaker 2 1:37:17

Well, dell walks away and she says thanks, I'm sure that'll help me get elected. Ah, fuck them. Hey, what do you care about what those bitches think anyway? And she's like I don't care. Fuck those hoes. I got to go. My mom's picking me up. I'll see you tomorrow, says Natalie. But that's disheartening. Dell is waiting at pickup. You know, standard, standard pickup point. All the kids are getting picked up, she's. We get some time cuts where less and less kids until the point where she's all by herself and her dad pulls up, squeals up to a stop and in the pickup truck and he's not making eye contact with her.

Speaker 2 1:37:57

He's like she's where his mom, she don't feel so good. Come on and hop in. And he's obviously dealing with something Cut to the heart like a art store and what's going on Like like a I didn't notice he's not Blue.

Speaker 3 1:38:10

Yes, he does. Oh my.

Speaker 2 1:38:13

God, oh, my God. He sniffs glue. So, boss, walk us through the art store. What's happening here? It's not even an art store, it's like a. It's just like a dollar store.

Speaker 4 1:38:26

Yeah, this might be a well. There's definitely like dish soap and shit in the background, so not entirely an art store but they do have like a job lot or something or like a big lots.

Speaker 2 1:38:41

Yeah, whatever, yeah.

The Contrast of Perspectives on Politics

Speaker 4 1:38:43

They do have plenty of different colors of poster board, though, so they're looking for it. His first statement is this shit's expensive. Because of course it is. She said well, this shit's necessary. How are people, how are people supposed to vote for me if they don't know who I am, which I think his point would be. I don't care if they vote for you, she said.

Speaker 2 1:39:06

He says yeah, I don't yeah like you don't need a fucking poster board.

Speaker 4 1:39:13

You could figure it out some other way. All you need is a black sharpie right, and you could write your name on the bathroom wall. And then that's how I got your mom's number. Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:39:29

So she doesn't like get stung by that.

Speaker 3 1:39:33

I think that's like smiles with it Like that's a yeah, it's a little bit weird.

Speaker 4 1:39:41

So I'm not sure if you guys ever heard Toby Keith's song how do you like me? Now, for some reason it was real big when I was in high school, like for a few months, and then I was reminded of it because of a different, a D&D podcast that I listened to had an episode that came out, so I revisited the song because Toby Keith has, in the intervening years, become a real dickhole, so I don't care for his music in most ways. I was lucky enough that I was to first names.

Speaker 4 1:40:10

It's the two first names. I fucking hate the two first names. But also I saw an advertisement like a bus on the side of a bus that Toby Keith was playing at FESTA and Naperville, Illinois, a few years ago and I was like, well, how do I have fallen that no longer are you on the top. I did get to send a picture of that to my best friend and captioned it how do you like me now? Because I thought that was funny.

Speaker 4 1:40:37

The song itself is about how it vaguely autobiographical a woman that he was in love with in high school is now in a loveless marriage and she has kids and her husband doesn't come home or take care of her or anything. And this is supposed to be sort of comeuppance, because she was snobby and wouldn't pay attention to him in high school and she wasn't interested in dating him because she had so many other boyfriends. And the first line of the song was I broke into the stadium and wrote your number on the 50 yard line. Underneath I wrote call for a good time and I'm like wait, hold on.

Speaker 4 1:41:17

So you think she's the bitch because, she wouldn't date you after you sexually harassed her in front of the entire school. And now you're really happy that she's miserable in her middle aged, loveless marriage which her shitty husband is keeping her in. Great, I love this song.

Speaker 2 1:41:33

I'm so glad that we thought that she should have gotten with him when he was a young inso.

Speaker 4 1:41:39

If only she had known that eventually he would be playing Naperville Rift Fest. Then she wouldn't have made the mistake of being interested in other men who didn't publicly shame her. Yeah, weird.

Speaker 2 1:41:56

So Della is still shopping here. She says Ma promised me a puffy paint. Of course Bobby's like hey, what are you doing? Like, and she's, she's off in her own world. I like the green, but you know, like the pink, the green is more gender neutral. He's like gender. What the fuck is gender neutral? Like he doesn't.

Speaker 3 1:42:16

He is not Somehow I ended up bumping into a video and I'd seen it before, but it's of all these people of the MAGA variety saying I'm blah, blah, blah and my pronouns are, and then they say something utterly ridiculous my pronouns are USA, my pronouns are, and I'm like. Here's the thing, though, like pronouns are a thing. Liberals didn't just make up pronouns, we've been using pronouns the whole time. Why are you being weird? Yeah, I feel like a lot of this is just people being weird. Like I promise you, bobby Luchetti has seen purple rain. Like he understands gender fluidity more than he wants to admit, but it's like there's just a thing around it, you know. It's like oh, what?

Speaker 4 1:43:11

Yes, Well, now that it's supposed to be average people who are allowed to express their gender identity in any way that they see fit without people getting angry about it. When it's Prince, when it's Boy George, when it's David Bowie, then it's fine. Obviously those are rock stars, but like just a regular person? No, absolutely not, right.

Speaker 2 1:43:35

That is true. So, yeah, he doesn't know what that means, and so he's just being a schmuck.

Speaker 4 1:43:47

Oh yeah, I'm not going to buy you both. I won't buy you both, pink and green. You don't need two poster boards, come on.

Speaker 2 1:43:52

And she's like lost in thought. I like I just like this version of Dell. She's like really trying to. I don't know, you just want to get behind her, you know. And and hey, look, look at me. He says hey, hey, look, he sees what she is, what she's doing. And he's like I better, I better, nip this in the butt. I bind you both. Okay, so just pick one. So we get to. Please get the fuck out of here. And she says this would have been more fun with Right. That's what happens in a family, like there's different roles for different people in my family. Juliana is loving, caring, nurturing, intelligent, thoughtful, whatever, and I am a jerk, so we were looking at schools for for.

Speaker 4 1:44:40

Yeah, we're both going to let that one slide. Neither, neither me or coach are going to jump in on that one, nope.

Speaker 2 1:44:44

Nope, no, it's, it's the God's honest truth. And so we're looking at schools and Juliana's got this. We're watching like a tour of this. No, no, this one was a web. We were with the admissions office, where they do like a webinar, and they said we have, you know, bathrooms. We have male, male bathrooms, women female bathrooms and we have gender neutral bathrooms. And I I I lean over to my son and I was like your intelligence neutral, and then he whacked me and then we went right back. This is our family dynamic. I've just poked fun at everybody. He's intelligence neutral.

Speaker 3 1:45:23

So so she says, he says we're clearly your mother's not here, you know, and I mean it also hit so hard that that said because we know that that line is about this scene. But in the context of drama that line is about life, like once the life in that room was gone, like that was not a place you wanted to be.

Speaker 2 1:45:49

Well, so we're not quite there yet. We just say he goes hey kid, what are you like? What the fuck are you doing all this for? And she says what all this shit? You know it's goddamn popularity contest, doing all this fake shit for votes. Come on. And she says what does she say here, coach?

Speaker 3 1:46:08

I don't know. I like helping people. That's so bad yeah.

Speaker 2 1:46:13

Is that so bad? Um yeah.

Speaker 4 1:46:17

I would just very quickly like point out that it is so bad that wanting to help people comes attached to a popularity contest, which is how we end up with politicians who people like more than they're able to effectively make change happen. And so it's even in this situation. Bobby is right that this is not the best way of getting things done. It would be better for Dal if she could do channel this into a way that didn't require a popularity contest. But, like there's, there's some truth on both sides of this.

Speaker 2 1:46:51

Yeah yeah, find people on both sides, boss. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 1:46:54

Yeah, and it's a situation where I thought there weren't fine people, that each side didn't have something to say, you know.

Father's Moment of Support and Understanding

Speaker 2 1:47:03

No, no, no, you're pretty right, you're, you're, you're a pretty big fence walker in that way, um, uh, by doing nothing, uh, oh, this is what he says. Here's a better way to help people by doing nothing and staying out of the fucking way, um, which is more worldview hell of a real worldview, right, you know it's. It's better than begging for attention from a bunch of fucking jack wagons worth your weight and spit. So, so that's a compliment Of sorts, right, right, it's very shrouded in profanity and in a terrible worldview, um, but yes, it is meant to be kind and supportive in a way in its way.

Speaker 4 1:47:42

I would also say that, even though Bobby Luchetti seems like an asshole in almost every front and doesn't value especially the women in his life the way that he should, uh, I think that what he knows is by being a poorer, less well connected family, he is setting her up to fail at this and doesn't want to see that. I think that there is a tiny bit of truth to the idea that she is trying to help people who are not as good as she is, and good and kind of putting in quotes. But, uh, he knows that this is partly a reflection of his failure and he doesn't want her to get hurt. I don't think he's a good guy. I don't want anybody to think that I think he's a good guy. I just want to point out that the actual motivation behind him being a dick like this is not just I don't want to spend money or time. He has an issue with this being about external validation of Dell because he doesn't want her to fail at that.

Speaker 2 1:48:43

Yes, that's probably how he framed it Right.

Speaker 3 1:48:46

Sure, I think sort of with that. I think he's experienced enough rejection that the idea of setting yourself up to be rejected is in itself also crazy. You know what I mean, Of course nobody gives a shit about us. Why would anybody like trust me? I have been going through this life a long time. Nobody gives a shit about us. Yeah, a lot of what I'm sure he's endured would lead to this worldview.

Speaker 2 1:49:18

Yeah, Dell says maybe I want to be noticed for once for something good, like she's just being a little bit vulnerable here. This is what's funny to me is this is a fallacy about parenting. I think the younger generations of Gen X and below do a better job with this than previous generations. But a lot of people think parenting is like before the wedding, or I'm trying to think. But parenting is what happens in stationary aisles, in the moments you don't think you're doing formative repair or damage, depending on. It's always the little moments. It's like when they say life is what happens when you're waiting for other things or when you're making other plans or all these little sayings that you get on terrible placards at Christmas tree shops. But it really there's a truth to it, which is people gloss over moments like this. But this is a key moment for the two of them. Bobby says I notice you and you know your ma. She notices you.

Speaker 2 1:50:30

I don't know if Dell is vulnerable like this with him and honest with him. Remember you know he grabs her by the hair in the future and hits first and asks questions. This is not. I don't know. At least maybe back then when, when Donna was around, maybe there was more of a conduit or maybe he was available more in this way. But I think this part of him calcifies and closes up. Well, people don't always say nice things about me. Dell says Well, not me, but you know what I mean. And what does he say there, coach?

Speaker 3 1:51:07

About your ma, you mean, and he's like putting it together, Like you could just see him right there. He put it together. He's like far, yeah, that made me. The dad in me was like yeah, he's a dad, Like you know, like he's. There have been any moments here where I've been like, but that moment made me go. He's a dad. When you realize like, oh, you're in that.

Speaker 2 1:51:34

That's what she's dealing with.

Speaker 3 1:51:35

Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:51:36

People know.

Speaker 3 1:51:38

Yeah, it's hard.

Speaker 2 1:51:41

And so he has a moment where he doesn't say anything and and he is just, he's just processing all this, and what does he say, boss?

Speaker 4 1:51:52

Get the green.

Speaker 2 1:51:53

Yeah, yeah, he pivots he right in the middle of this thing. That was the worst, fucking guy I've ever seen. Yeah, right.

Speaker 3 1:52:01

Yeah, it's kind of beautiful.

Speaker 2 1:52:03

Even a guy like this. It is beautiful. It is God damn it. No, it's not Simmons, I'm telling you. That is what makes Wayne great, that is what makes this show great. Is that even somebody like Bobby Lucetti, who has been painted as the biggest car in the entire world, he has enough wherewithal or enough presence at this one key moment to change it up and support it, support his little girl. And that is a beautiful moment. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 1:52:39

And I do really, really appreciate. You know you want characters with nuance and with complexity and who don't seem like a very two dimensional caricature of the person that they're supposed to be playing. And in real life, even with the most abusive, shitty assholes, they have some redeeming qualities. They have moments where they are understanding and compassionate and funny and fun to be around. Like there is a reason that serial abusers in Hollywood still get to keep working and that's because a lot of the times they are fun to be around. Sometimes, like making a bad guy, always bad, with no charming qualities, is unfairly reductive to the people in that person's life, like you do like them. Sometimes Even the abusive asshole, you like them. Sometimes it's human nature, like I don't know what to tell you about it. There has to be something compelling about Bobby Luchetti if people will still talk to him.

Speaker 2 1:53:45

Yeah, yeah, Good point. And so he turns us around, just goes to green. You know green reminds people of money. You know, because people are fucking greedy, it's still not ideal yeah, but like you know it's still couched in his worldview.

Speaker 3 1:54:00

But in a way, isn't that like? It feels a bit to me? It's a corollary to what boss put up earlier of like you know there, this way, I think there's something about saying like if he had just said, go ahead and get the green, yes, that would have been supportive. But saying, okay, I, here's my reason, we're going to use green whatever the hell gender neutral means Like. To me that's more of a like gesture. That's saying like I am with you, not just I'll pay for this, I am with you now.

Speaker 2 1:54:29

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, right Right. That's his version of we're in this together and Dale smiles like she's a big smile. She's like you think. He's like, oh yeah, fucking a. And then she comes into the boat. She goes we don't need any, we don't need the puffy paint, and he goes. What, coach? What does he say?

Speaker 3 1:54:48

Fuck, we're getting the fucking puffy paint.

Speaker 2 1:54:52

Yeah, fuck that.

Speaker 3 1:54:53

We're getting the fucking puffy paint.

Speaker 2 1:54:54

We're getting it Right and we're getting the scented markers. You and me, we're going to have a party and come on and it's so. It kills me because it requires nothing to turn this thing around, man. It requires so little. We're talking about 10 bucks.

Speaker 3 1:55:12

I was just going to say I don't think they spent 10 bucks. I don't think they spent 10 bucks.

Speaker 2 1:55:18

Yeah, right, and it's completely turned around, and so you know it's going to be a nightmare with Bobby whenever he's in a scene. You know it's going to go wrong or he's going to punch out somebody or he's going to make an ass of himself or he's going to be a belittlest children. But actually they walk out laughing and smiling and having a grand old time.

Speaker 3 1:55:38

Yeah, it's really cool. Boss.

Speaker 4 1:55:44

And then he grabs something off the shelf and pockets it.

Speaker 2 1:55:48

Yeah, maybe the glue that he sniffs early.

Speaker 4 1:55:53

I hope to God. It's Elmer's glue. I hope to fucking God. It's one of those like non-toxic glues that don't even get you high that he's just, he's just no way.

Speaker 3 1:56:02

Yeah, that's good. That would be on brand for the show is to have it be non-toxic. I'll say too that there's an egg, him snatching something that way and obviously modeling wonderful civic responsibility. It adds to the the, the horribleness of his reaction to her and the cookies it's like oh, imagine stealing yeah Like oh my God, are you serious?

Speaker 2 1:56:32

So anyway, yeah, good point, good point. We cut to the house. And what's going on here, boss?

Speaker 4 1:56:41

Della's at the dining room table. She's working on her poster board. Bobby says the hell, are you two bozos doing with the cat now? You're trying to smoke the cat out. And of course, carl and Teddy are hanging out in front of the vent with a, with a sorry, with a fan on front of the vent. At this point he's like can you stop, can you fucking, can you knock it off? Donna walks through the background carrying a beer to shovel the shit like as to shoveled. As we've seen her hair half off, baggy clothes, she doesn't seem like she's doing particularly well today.

Speaker 4 1:57:23

And even sitting at the table she doesn't seem like she's doing particularly well today.

Speaker 3 1:57:27

And, given what we know about her and that she's nursing that beer like it's tonic, seems that she had she had a rough one with the old oxy.

Speaker 2 1:57:42

Yeah, carl and Teddy are trying to smoke the cat out and they're like it's as if they are, they're big, they're big, they're full grown men.

Speaker 3 1:57:50

Yes, I noticed this too.

Speaker 2 1:57:52

Humans but they are.

Speaker 3 1:57:53

They behave like they're about seven years and right now, where the shot itself, we're above them. And we're above them in the way that you would with an eye line, because it's not like just aiming the camera down at them were sort of like the camera sort of pointed forward and over their head just tilted down a little bit to them. So we really are looking at them the way you would be looking at some little kids doing something crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:58:18

And also, they haven't lit whatever they're going to smoke.

Speaker 3 1:58:20

He's got it balled up and ready to go.

Speaker 2 1:58:22

It's like looking a rolled up paper or something. And then what's he going to do after it burns down like like there's no real thinking here at all. No, like it's going to burn, what do?

Speaker 3 1:58:31

you think that happens, a magic trick.

Speaker 2 1:58:35

I love these guys. I love them so much.

Speaker 4 1:58:38

I love also that. That's like I don't know how they thought they were going to smoke the cat out with this. This doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 1:58:44

There's a fan blowing towards the living room? It's not aimed, they're not near event, I don't know. They're just. They're going to smoke the whole house, the whole house of smoke which I did at a house party on time.

Speaker 4 1:58:53

I don't recommend it. But also I'm not sure if it's Carl or Teddy, but one of them is sitting up on his heels in a way that I have not been able to do since I was 16.

Speaker 3 1:59:03

Yeah, that's the add to the childish element, to, yeah, childlike.

Speaker 2 1:59:07

Yeah the other one's, chris.

Speaker 4 1:59:09

Cross applesauce. I could. I could still do for a few minutes, but this shit up on your knees bent resting on their shins on his shins, back on his heels.

Family Dynamics and Table Troubles

Speaker 3 1:59:18

Absolutely fucking. Yeah, no, that's crazy, but I love and we don't know, we talked about this a little bit of key going silly, but that there is a sliver of logic to this. Like might you be able to smoke the cat out of the vent? I guess maybe if you knew what the fuck you were doing, you weren't a couple of idiots which, like a piece of newspaper, you're going to blow a fan at but like it is just enough in there that you can buy that somebody would be this ridiculous.

Speaker 2 1:59:52

It's painful. I love them so much they keep they. Every time they're on screen I crack up, I like smile just when they're on the screen because, in anticipation of the stupidity, it's so hard to pull off dumb characters this. Well, these guys are great. Smoking out that Bobby's like what are you fucking crazy? You're gonna burn my down, my goddamn house? Give me that. Come on, chop, chop, smoke out a cat, huh. And he hits him. And you're right away. The two boys get into it like right right away, pointing each other and wrestling.

Speaker 3 2:00:23

It's comical, but I think it's. It's one of my sister and I used to fight like cats and dogs and I actually did talk about this on stage at one point and I was like we were both so pissed at our parents like we hadn't processed whatever, but we couldn't hit our parents so we just beat the shit out of each other Like ultimately, that is what. Like looking back now, it is like crystal fucking clear what was going on, and I think it's interesting that whenever Bobby, you know, slaps one of them in the head or tells us whatever, that they end up fighting with each other as right after that.

Speaker 3 2:01:04

I don't think that's my mistake, but by coincidence it absolutely is not.

Speaker 4 2:01:10

And you know not that we keep getting to discussion about punching down and whether it's ever acceptable or whatever else. But usually people do punch down because they don't feel empowered to punch up. They both want to punch their dad. They both can't punch their dad. So it's, in a way, not just a problem for the people that they're punching down on, but for them, because they're not processing through any of their shit so that they stop punching other people and then they turn out like their dad in the future.

Speaker 2 2:01:39

Yes, well said. Bobby snags the paper from the Dopes and this is funny. He opens it up, walks over to Dell, who's working at the table on the poster board, and he goes Dell, can you do me a favor please? He's not rude about it, but he opens the paper all the way up and he slides it under the poster board and he goes could you just slide this under here just so you don't make a mess and don't fuck up my table please? And I was like I wonder if that's like his grandmother's table or something, or I don't know, it's like his possession of the table. In that way it reminded me of like, oh, this is like an heirloom, and now he's the man of the house. I was like, oh, this is a short story, it's like a Raymond.

Speaker 3 2:02:19

Farrer story oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, no, that could be. Certainly it's interesting. Well, it's gonna, we should just go ahead. But I think, whatever it is, it's his table. You know what I mean. Like, and he, he's not a guy who's got it to be like screw this table, I'm just gonna go get another table. Like this is gonna be his table, whether she fucks it up or not.

Speaker 2 2:02:44

That's true, and then in a true to form, because when you're with somebody long enough, you know how to push their buttons without even looking at him. Donna is sitting at the table looking away. She got her back to Dell, basically beer in her hand, not engaged, totally detached from the situation. What does she say, boss, tables already fucked up.

Speaker 3 2:03:08

Like you don't have to say that in darkness now.

Speaker 2 2:03:13

Yeah, right, and so, and so she says that and Bobby's like yeah, because somebody doesn't know how to use a fucking coaster. Right, like, oh, the tables fucked up with got rings from beer drinks on it Coasters. He says all of a sudden this guy's pushing Coasters. I love it.

Family Conflict and Embarrassment

Speaker 3 2:03:41

The language is so it's interesting the we see, especially with the twins. How much energy is it is put toward? How do we avoid them? How do we not piss them off? We're going to end up sleeping. We're going to end up out sitting outside of a hotel room so he can sleep off a hangover, right Like this, and she goes directly at him. Not only is it she worried about him, she goes out of her lane to fuck with him. It's such a different and I could see how the entire family dynamic would be like, obviously losing the mom, but like just sort of even this, this we're seeing here. There's no balance to him anymore, Like I'm sure at some point, with all that yelling there's no one to keep him in line.

Speaker 2 2:04:25

You're saying in the future, future episodes, he has lost his power.

Speaker 3 2:04:31

Yeah, that scene that we saw with all the you know where. You got your hands on my goddamn door like I would imagine. I'm making this up, so I don't know, maybe Donna would have. But I imagine Donna comes out onto the side porch and goes leave the kid alone, blah, blah, blah blah and says it's nice to meet him and then says some embarrassing joke about how cutie is or like half-lurge with him and Dells like mom right, but like it would make Bobby stop and that would have ended, as opposed to that sort of like progressing with no breaks and getting so agree Right.

Speaker 2 2:05:03

Right, there's a potential for a formal right and she would know how there that that's yeah. Yeah, Bobby says come on, you can use anything as a friggin coaster. Yeah, why don't you use one of Dell's books? And what happens right then when he tosses this book over to to Donna Boss?

Speaker 4 2:05:28

She tries to put their beer on to Scarlet Letter tips over her. Spills all over Dell's poster.

Speaker 3 2:05:37

Great choice of book because of region. Great choice of book because of the big ostracized from society. Great choice of like. It's just like great. Oftentimes people put stuff like that in and I'm like there's a little hand fisted, we get it. You were great in English in high school. Nobody cares, but this actually felt like good storytelling. That that's what Dell is reading right now.

Speaker 2 2:06:04

Yeah, yeah, it's all good storytelling. I love this beat here. This is very, very accurate. She drops the beer on it, spills right on this port, on this poster board. That does clearly put a lot of work into. And Dell's the first one to say it's okay. It's okay Because she is there to normal, she's trying to stabilize because she knows what happens if things don't get stable right. Hey, relax, I'll help her make a new one. Donna says, and you know Dell says it's okay. Bobby goes no, it's not okay. Like, it's not okay. She's like relax, like she's got attitude, I'll help her make a new one. You know how much money this fucking costs, like. Then he goes to the money. Like these guys, they push each other's buttons and she says no, I don't know. No, you wouldn't, because you didn't show up at the fucking craft store like you were supposed to, did you? God quit being fucking cheap. She says it's not about me being cheap. All right, bobby. All right, it's not about me being cheap. All right, you're a fucking embarrassment.

Speaker 3 2:07:10

Yeah, yeah. Now this is intense. This is intense For a few because I did a lot of the reacting in this scene. He's really upset for Dell, like he's embarrassed because it's his family, but I feel like he is like when he realized, like we watched his reversal in every other scene we've ever seen. He's like I wouldn't give you fucking kids a nickel if I didn't have to. Yeah, and once he's dumping shit into the cart right, like that's how impacted he was by that piece of information and I feel like, albeit in a very unhealthy way, this is him wanting to protect, slash, avenge that something in that vicinity. Dell, he's really pissed off that she's going through that.

Speaker 2 2:08:10

Yeah, and Dell can sense that he's on the edge, which is why she's done it.

Speaker 3 2:08:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right away. She knows what she told him.

Speaker 2 2:08:22

Right, your daughter here has been busting her ass trying to become school president and you're not helping her. All of her friends snickering, gossiping about your and he just leaves hanging. She says my what? She's facing him now. This is a. This is, you know, it's funny, because she was really detached before this, you know, like she was really not you know, in a, you know, intentionally sitting sideways, beer in her hand, not looking at anybody. Now we have her. Donna is facing them. It's funny. Abigail Spencer, she's such a beaut and she's just like they have this. It looks like a practical light on her, I think. Whatever, if it's not, it's a soft, it's a soft feel.

Speaker 3 2:09:21

I think they have the light not to get too geeked out here, but I think they have the lamp there to sell the light that they have probably just off camera here.

Speaker 2 2:09:33

I think that's true. I think that's true. Yeah, but it's a, it's very. She actually looks weirdly calm in this moment, like I don't know if it's she's reconnecting or or she's like her anger has gotten to the point where she's more concerned now with proving him wrong than she is about.

Speaker 3 2:09:53

I read this a little differently. I read this a little differently. I read shame. She knows what. He knows what. Everybody knows what all the kids at school know what. All the teachers know what. Everybody fucking knows what. Right, but she's going to make him say it she knows, she knows what are they?

Speaker 1 2:10:15

what are they saying? She knows what this what do you?

Speaker 3 2:10:17

what are you doing? But this is, to me, we've gotten to a point of absolute shame. And I think and it's not lost on me that, in terms of the writing because I feel like writers are proud of themselves when they come up with a moment like this and I'm sure it's on soon as well as to have her spill her beer beer directly onto that poster board is just like right, that's this, that's like this whole scene in one image.

Speaker 2 2:10:48

Yeah, yeah, no, it's exactly. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, yeah, a perfect allure for what's happening. She does not say she said what? What are they saying about me? And he looks at Dale and go ahead, boss.

Speaker 4 2:11:00

Well, I was just going to say the fact that she says what are they saying about me? That he, she makes it so clear and Bobby's response is I'm going outside for a beer. I don't know if it was exactly shame. I think that there's an element of this where she might have been pushing Bobby to change in certain ways, or to help her to be able to change, and that she is ready for this conversation and he is not, and so she is challenging on this kind of like what do you want to talk about my problem? Do you want to talk about my problem? Because if you want to talk about my problem, guess, what we're going to talk about these problems.

Speaker 4 2:11:41

And so I think that, yes, she's acknowledging what she did wrong, but I think she's demanding that he take responsibility for his portion of it, and that is to me it feels like that's been the impasse for most of their marriage you know where he's saying like get better. And she's like, okay, fucking, help me. And then, when he won't, she's like, well then fuck off.

Speaker 3 2:12:03

You know, I yes to what you said.

Speaker 3 2:12:05

I think that's a that makes a ton of sense and I thought I've thought of them, about this in workplaces, but I've never quite thought about it here and I guess code is penicy, whatever however you want to phrase it, but I saw in workplaces all the time.

Speaker 3 2:12:19

It's a funny thing. You can have workplaces that are understanding right in terms of like oh you know, people are human, people make mistakes, right and then that can morph into a conspiracy of sorts where if I don't call you out when you don't hand in your report, then you won't call me out when I don't hand in my report, and then we, and then now the organization is fucked because we've gone from zero tolerance to absolute lack of accountability. You know what I mean and I wonder if, on some level, that's what's going on here. I mean, if he's saying, how can you do this to your daughter, to say essentially, how can you do this to your daughter? And then model, hey, if you ever find yourself in a tough, emotional conversation, grab a beer and leave, that's, that's pretty much how you should handle that it's very interesting.

Speaker 2 2:13:12

Instead of responding, instead of replying, he says I'm going outside for a beer and this is alone. And now, uh, dell is. Now there's drama. She's just trying to run for whatever. Now there's all this friction, this intensity. You know, her mom had been checked out and her dad was helping her. Now her mom has spilled this thing, got the dad all riled up. Now he's checked out. Now no one's there to help her. Um, he's isn't going out alone. And the two dummies on the on the floor go dad, that is a great idea. I'm coming with you. They love their daddy and you know they just they did, like little puppy dogs, following him anywhere he goes. And what does he say here, coach?

Speaker 3 2:13:57

Hey dummy, what the fuck? I just say huh. So I think he doesn't want any company right now. I need to be alone with my thoughts. Yeah, because that's Bobby Luchetti, for I need to be alone with my thoughts, yikes Wow. I don't think you should call your children dummy too often or maybe at all. I, I do exactly.

Speaker 2 2:14:25

Exactly. I'm serious, I'm not. Oh really, yeah, I'm not even kidding I love you fucking around.

Speaker 3 2:14:30

It's start.

Speaker 2 2:14:31

No, I'm serious and it is all. It's because we have an understanding that they're all right, right.

Speaker 3 2:14:37

But yeah, he knows he's really caught like this is not Iran, this is not the wink.

Speaker 2 2:14:42

No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, my eldest son is one of, if not the smartest person I've ever met and we and we always think like if he actually ends up being as smart as we think he is, and they somehow do like a 30 for 30 behind the scenes and they find out that his nickname is dummy- in our house, that's funny.

Speaker 2 2:15:01

They'll be like wow, that is really weird. It all started when, when he was little, he was like oh God, seven, eight he came up with this theory that the letter C is ridiculous in the English alphabet and he's like we got a dump to C and so then his nickname. We get him a present for Christmas like a mug, that said dump C, like dump, and then dash C, that's funny. And then so it was dump C, dump C, and then it was like sort of ended up in right and because he's like there's no nothing to see that can't do better, that's funny, it's really funny, it's not wrong.

Speaker 2 2:15:43

Yeah, yeah, it's like why? What are we? What are we talking about? Anyway, we go back to the table here and I, uh, della sitting awkwardly with her mom and, oh God, now our mom is sitting there thinking my daughter betrayed, like she's been talking about me to the dad, otherwise, how would he know? He's totally checked out. How would he know anything? It's not like right. And so Della says I didn't say nothing about you, you know. He's just being yeah, I'm sorry, oh, I can't take it, boss, I can't, I know, I know, I know you just like take this shit and stride Clarenets getting stolen and turned into meth and no big deal For me.

Speaker 2 2:16:33

I'm just like oh.

Speaker 3 2:16:36

I think there's something in this I, I, I from Donna we give what we can, at least at our best, right? We just, we give it. We give what we can, and this is what Donna can offer. Right, I see that you're great. There's something, though, to like modeling something other than that. That, that's this extra harsh and like, adds a sadness not just to this scene, but adds a sad to me, adds a sadness to what Dell is having to live. Like, what do you mean For being better than you?

Speaker 2 2:17:21

like get just like on some level. No, she says yeah, what did I? What did I tell you about apologizing for?

Speaker 3 2:17:27

being good. I get that, but that's a lot for this girl. The carry. Like you know what I mean Like you're her parent, like be the model, like don't, like sorry, I'm, you know, falling apart, like part of the job is not having this be the dynamic. I mean, it's not like she's just like you can strive past where I went. Like she's like, yeah, I'm pretty much a laughing stock because of the way I'm living and obviously this is just who I am. So you know you go, be wonderful. I don't know there's something about it. It is sweet and it feels very damaging, if not because cruel, I think says some intention, but it seems very damaging.

Speaker 4 2:18:16

Yes, there's also a way in which a fucking what was Nick Lachey's band group, whatever the 80 degrees, I think yeah, they put out some song about how I can't even remember what it's called right now. Also from the early 2000s, there's a lot of bad music, but basically that he is going to dump his girlfriend because she is too good for him, and so it's a lot of like I'm going to pretend I don't love you, I'm going to turn around and walk away because you deserve somebody better than me. And it's supposed to be very noble and very like. I listen, I just love you so much that I need you to go find somebody who deserves you, and it's like why don't you become somebody who?

Speaker 3 2:18:59

deserves you.

Parental Support and Confidence Building

Speaker 4 2:19:02

If you're willing to work that hard at it, why don't you do it in a way that it's something that I want?

Speaker 4 2:19:07

So, there's a little bit of this. It's one thing to tell your kids like you are so much more talented than I am, like you're so much better at this thing than I am. It's one thing to say like I'm acknowledging my limitations and you and this thing are so good. It is another thing for Donna to be sort of befriending down in a way that's inappropriate and saying like oh well, I'm a big bag of shit and you're amazing. Like okay, but you're my mom, so I don't not be a big bag of shit. Like that would be a better option for everybody.

Speaker 2 2:19:40

It's a good. It's a good point. It's funny because they tell you oh, don't always tell that your kids about your successes, you know, also tell them about your failures. And so, like this is her just maxing out only on the failure, but it's still.

Speaker 2 2:19:54

You're absolutely right. It's like being the type of person I need you to be for, more than what you need to be like. I need you there for me in that role. She's trying to do her best here, and so she clears the table and Donna says, all right, he'll calm down. She grabs another piece of poster board. He can call me anything he wants. He says things, that's what he does. What about what the hell? Vote for Dell? And Dell says I kind of love that. And she says that's because it's fucking good. So she's turned it around a little bit. And she she writes like a Dell sort of. She's got a little flourish to her, to the way she does it. You know her penmanship. And Dell says Wow, he should have been an artist or something. She says I dabbled back in the day. She says you dabbled, yeah, graffiti mostly. But it's like it's nice how she's like there's something to it. It's not. There's a. You know there's a. There's a concept behind how she's. You know, go ahead, coach.

Speaker 3 2:21:07

We were told earlier that Lucetti got the phone number off the bathroom wall. We assumed someone else put it there, or I did, maybe. Maybe Donna put it there. I mean, I think it's interesting that they mentioned graffiti here. It's like, oh interesting.

Speaker 2 2:21:24

Yeah, it would be a power move. Yeah, I dare you to call this.

Speaker 3 2:21:33

Exactly. You know what?

Speaker 2 2:21:34

I mean she's got an attitude. So yeah, she starts helping out and Dell's like Wow, it's perfect. And she's like kind of can't believe it and she's all right. Now let me hear that speech of yours. She's not, it's not ready yet. And she turns and looks at her. She says, hey, they're gonna fucking love you, kid. How do you know that? Just because I fucking love you.

Speaker 3 2:22:03

So they at least have to like you or I'll kill which is but I, yeah, it's a little crazy, it's a little crazy, but yes, again I.

Speaker 2 2:22:16

Mean listen. She's instilling her with some confidence. You know, again, if parents are so, it's so hard with kids and parents. You know, like I said, she, she was checked out. Donna was checked out. Bobby was invested Because of the dynamic.

Speaker 2 2:22:35

Bobby gets chased away out to the back to do his moping and then Donna checks back in and her brand of checking in is really intense and sort of like real hands-on. She's got her hands on Dills face. You know, I mean it's not like the distant sort of check-in of Bobby, it's. You know, she's really. She grabs the marker, she draws the thing. And Bobby was standing over it, del, while she was drawing, but he wasn't drawing. You know, donna like gets right in, gets her, gets against dirty.

Speaker 2 2:23:07

So there's a nice little moment between the two of them and Del Abigail Spencer. There's this moment when Dell turns away. It's gorgeous. It's like get up to do her speak, do her speech right. And did you see gorgeous, like the get it together. Mannerisms like this is like, this is like really, really good. I mean, it's just, it's. I'm watching it, wiping her mouth, smelling your hand. Like oh, my god, it's so, oh, it's so, it's so rough. And then Dell stands up to start her speech. Good morning, hagler. My name is Del Luchetti and I'm running for class president. Of course, boss. What does what does Donna do when she gets to that part?

Lessons in Balance and Realism

Speaker 4 2:23:58

Immediately jumps up onto the back of the chair and shouts that's my daughter. Yeah you know what's interesting.

Speaker 3 2:24:04

I was earlier saying, like the cynicism on the one side in realism, but this is also unbridled Optimism and it's all it's. It's also out of balance. They're gonna love you and now and now I'm cheering and everything's fine about me spilling a beer, like there's a lot wrong with you going to use my English book as a coaster and thereby Spilling your beer on my school President poster. I mean, there's a lot going on here that's not fixed by you chairing. That's my daughter.

Speaker 4 2:24:39

Yeah. So this is. I think that Bobby and Donna actually both have Important lessons to teach to their children. Bobby by saying like you don't need the the approval of other people, at least like you don't need to win this popularity contest to have value, and Donna saying no people should love you. There is a middle ground in there between both of them that says you should understand who you are as a person and feel inherently valuable all by yourself. So some people are not gonna like you because some people are assholes, and some people will fucking love you because they understand what you're going for. You don't need everybody to love you like.

Speaker 4 2:25:20

It is fine for you to be the person that you are, and who likes you likes you. Who doesn't, doesn't fuck them. It is very much that on both sides are like no, this is the only thing. Everyone is going to love you as much as I love you, or every person's a fucking asshole and always will be, yeah. Like yeah neither one of them are completely right, but neither one of them are completely wrong, right.

Speaker 2 2:25:43

So Del continues, if elected. I promise to not make any stupid promises that I can't keep, because when I decided to do something, I always follow through, because I like helping people and, I'm honest, I thought that was a nice piece of foreshadowing for the next half of this season, but go on.

Speaker 2 2:26:04

Yeah, right, yes, yes, coach. So that's why we're gonna finally wash those rants of PE pennies and and, and, and. So we do the thing now where we cut from her living room to the actual speech itself. Del continues we're gonna put free tampons in all the girls bathrooms and we're gonna spackle over that people. Coach Porter left in the boys locker room before his quote unquote.

Speaker 3 2:26:34

Early. That was funny, not funny. Funny in that that's horrible at. That's a thing that we would think about in terms of schools and having to deal with, but it was a funny joke in itself. You know that they are. It's like this open secret that this coach was doing this thing anyway.

Speaker 2 2:26:51

Um, I Think that's sorry, good Coaches. A meant to, it's meant to be fun.

Speaker 3 2:26:57

Oh yeah, no, it's told in the show.

Speaker 2 2:27:00

It's a light, it's a moment of levity in her speech, designed to get people to be like, yeah, we're with you. And then we pivot from a single of her on the stage to a we are hovering Godlike over her, like right behind, we're directly behind her. She's centered in the frame and we get to see the audience behind her, the students, the whole student body is there In their chairs watching her from behind. And how's she doing, boss? Is she connecting with the audience?

Speaker 4 2:27:28

It doesn't really seem like it. There's some standoff ishness. Nobody seems leaning forward or super eager, although nobody is walking out either, so I don't know is anybody laughing at her joke? No, Although I've got to tell you, if somebody had said that they would put free tampons or pads in the bathrooms, absolutely vote for them. It's fucking Atrocious that those aren't just giving out like what. Do you mean that I need to put 25 cents into a vending machine to get a fucking menstrual product?

Speaker 4 2:27:58

like do you need to pay 25 cents to get fucking toilet paper? Like I literally cannot hold this shit in, I need you to provide something to me so that I don't bleed on myself On my way to wherever I'm going, so I can take care of people, jesus.

Speaker 2 2:28:14

Oh my god, what's next? What's next?

Speaker 1 2:28:16

shoes, you know oh yeah, I'll just give away tampons. Oh my god, Willie.

Speaker 2 2:28:20

Nilly I from the magical tampon tree.

Speaker 4 2:28:22

Huh, boss, I fucking got to tell you the number of and I'm just gonna say by and large Very right-wing conservatives. When people said things like we should reduce the cost of public education, and they're like, oh, what next? We're just gonna give everybody free food or free housing or free medical care. And we're like, yes, fucking yes, that's what we're gonna do yeah, if you need it. Yes that's what we're gonna do.

Speaker 3 2:28:45

Can we skip? Drag you through decades to make it happen and just do it.

Speaker 4 2:28:51

Like how do you think that that's a joke? How do you think that it's funny to say like, oh, we're gonna make sure people don't starve to death. Well, what's next? So they don't die because it's too cold outside hassles.

Speaker 3 2:29:03

I love, but well, there are a couple things for me in this seat. What are my favorite episodes of television because I am super weird is, is, is school, it's a school election episode of what's happening. And there's a geeky kid who's making common sense suggestions like this, and there's our guy Dwayne you coach, you've actually Sure. Over this life of the podcast.

Speaker 2 2:29:31

Yeah it's so funny because, like I know what you're gonna say, I haven't seen that episode you don't know it I know exactly yeah, yeah, good.

Speaker 3 2:29:40

Cuz I'm all right, you're all right, you know what I mean. And they all, like the kids go nuts and so they're not laughing at the joke. Here is just like it's showing us like this is just Well, life politics, but high school politics, right? I mean like that is a practical coach coach, hold on a sec.

Speaker 2 2:30:01

For people that didn't hear it. I did the same. I walked, I trampled all over the concept, what I, well, I understand in the, in the, in the what's happening episode, yeah, and it was one of the kids comes up and it makes a lot of sense. It is smart and has done his homework and he gets no response. And then it was was yeah, dwayne, yeah, and he comes out and he says out nonsense.

Speaker 3 2:30:22

But he said I'm right on, that's what it is, I'm right on and you're right on. And and they act as if he has like dropped like the FDR fireside chat, like and it's ridiculous and obviously it's meant to highlight that. And then ultimately Dwayne realizes and tells everybody to vote for the kid who could have the job. But I think, which?

Speaker 3 2:30:45

never happens and and I think this does reinforce some of what Bobby Lucetti had to say there's a girl who takes a long time to put on her makeup in the morning and a combs are here Just so, and I'm sure it has the right boys liking her. So when she comes up there and says whatever she's gonna say, they're all gonna laugh and smile and enjoy it all. But and it doesn't matter, cuz Della doesn't have that status in this group. So he's not. He wasn't wrong. I don't know what Biggie's problem is, but I'm going to mute this and go find out.

Speaker 4 2:31:17

I'll see you was not hit, wasn't his favorite.

Speaker 3 2:31:19

It was not apparently.

Speaker 2 2:31:25

So okay. So Dell continues and we see that only Natalie's sharing for her. Somebody yells Dell's a crack baby and people laugh, which is, which is, oh my god, it would be. It would be the unbelievable brutal in this, in this environment. We see Dell react. Now we go like on a medium shot. It's just her waist up. She's just trying to hold it together. I Can't one.

Speaker 2 2:31:56

I remember one of our butter cups saw this episode right when we I told you that when we announced we were gonna do Wayne. Some people just went right through and I got an email like a couple days after that and Somebody's like I just want to. I saw episode five last night. I just want to hug Dell. I just want to give her hug, like this poor kid, what she had to go through. And it seems like this she's on stage, no one's reacting to her, she's saying good things, someone yells that she's a crack baby and she looks over Like in the wings. See if there's anybody to support her. And who does she see out there, boss, oh mean girl number one.

Speaker 2 2:32:38

Giving her the thing? Yeah, giving her the finger, yeah, giving her the finger. That's like I Check.

Crack Cocaine's Impact on Babies

Speaker 4 2:32:47

Oh my god. I understand that this isn't the point, but they did a study years ago where they determined that almost all of the negative outcomes from having a parent who is Using crack cocaine during your pregnancy like while they were pregnant with you If you were a crack baby quote unquote Most of that is related to possibly being premature. But having a parent who is doing crack does make it more likely that you would be born prematurely and that that would be a problem and that Everything else was related to that. So once you sort of Isolate that, when you control for that, your outcomes are the same. It is fucking wild to me that 40, 50 years after the Crack pandemic was as bad as it was, we still have the term cracked baby and we haven't actually learned anything about how to help people with addictions or people whose parents had addictions, whether they were smaller, like that's the only thing that we've retained that fucking crack baby name, which isn't even applicable or accurate, and we're still using it as an insult.

Speaker 4 2:34:00

It doesn't make me feel super great.

Speaker 2 2:34:03

Yeah, it's not good. And so Dell is in the spotlight here as the as the crack babies that somebody yelled. Girl gives her the finger from the wings, she turns back. I mean it's this moment where she's just trying to hold it together and she says listen, listen, you can call me whatever you want, and you know you don't have to like me, but you should know that I like you and and I want to do good stuff, which is it's so.

Speaker 4 2:34:42

I know, I know that you're gonna be really sad and I understand why it's really sad and I'm not saying that you shouldn't be sad, but I am also saying that there is something about Dell and her experiences that allow her to recover in this way, that she didn't run off the stage, that she didn't feel like she couldn't be classed. Oh no, no, no, no, no. She has.

Speaker 2 2:35:03

she gets through the adversity, yeah no she makes it and it makes her stronger. I'm not, I'm not downplaying the Nietzsche element of this. I'm just saying, you know, it's just, it's a, it's a rough go. How many times have we seen in any show? Boss, you and I have watched many, many, many shows. Coaches watch three. Yeah, um, how many. What's happening, yeah, and then dead last though, but you know I like it so much it's the third show is what? Wait till he sees deadwood.

Speaker 3 2:35:34

He's gonna. I love dead. I watch every single episode. I love deadwood.

Speaker 2 2:35:44

No, I didn't know you like, that's good. So we've seen all these. We've seen this in Many different iterations, many different ways of a kid like doing this. Sometimes they get cheers, sometimes they bomb. I don't know if we've ever seen Like this sort of it's a it's a blend of apathy and disrespect and mockery and then there they really do a good job of the writing staff and the director, the cinematographer, with the choice of shots Reminiscent.

Speaker 2 2:36:18

I'm looking at one, it's sort of a half shot. You get in the first few rows Of the of the students, but Dell's like, it's sort of like it looks very small on the stage With like with an ugly ass curtain, gray curtain behind her, reminiscent of Ted in the airport when we pull back and you're highlighting the aloneness of the moment and and she, she just kind of sticks to her message, she stays on message. You don't have to like me, but I like you, you know, and I want to help you. I want to do good stuff. Like this blood drive we're having for Gordy and he waves with a kid in the front row. This is macabre, like this is. This is Cohen brothers ask to have the kid with a band-aid on his neck, half-heartedly wave.

Speaker 3 2:37:10

That's, that's twisted.

Speaker 2 2:37:12

I love it. That's my kind of shit. Um, so she says but you know, I hope you'll let me help you. So what the hell? Vote for Dell and she's peace and she walks off and Natalie gives her a big round of applause. Natalie, does anybody else? Anybody else, not even like smattering it, no one gives a lot.

Speaker 3 2:37:37

They're a couple sort of I get the sense that she has. I maybe I projected this, but there was a little bit of um. They knew they were wrong. The fact that she had to say what she had to say Kind of embarrassed them. I know, I know, I know I'll be over.

Speaker 2 2:37:58

Biggie Smalls, you have something you want to say boy, you know what, don't fuck with Dell. Yeah, I'm gonna go.

Speaker 3 2:38:06

So you're saying yeah, right, sorry I'm gonna go mood now, but that was my, that was our contribution.

Speaker 2 2:38:17

So just I love dogs. All right, boss. Dell walks off stage and Outcomes alpha nasty being girl number one. And what happens?

Speaker 4 2:38:27

Everybody loves her, which is exactly why my high school for all of its many faults, a student government was an Extracurricular club and you needed to join it in order to vote for the class president. I'm pretty sure that they did in fact have like Classwide elections, but nobody fucking cared. It was like you need to show up after school to vote for the class president and that way it was only people who actually cared about this shit and not the popular kids, making the popular kids the class president.

Speaker 2 2:38:56

Yeah. It's a very Roman, roman citizen, sort of element, to enough that that was a perfect system.

Speaker 4 2:39:05

No. I mean honestly worked out so well for Caesar.

Speaker 2 2:39:12

Yeah, well.

Speaker 4 2:39:17

Hey, hey guys. Hey guys, I didn't mean to do the SNL skit. I don't want us to thinking about ancient Rome right now, or I just?

Speaker 2 2:39:24

like Rome, rome, ancient Rome. Oh, I was, I'm being, I'm being Jason, I'm all I. I'll talk about it all day long. Actually, boss, when you consider when Caesar crossed the Rubicon. All right, so we are gonna, we're gonna stop there because we have a little bit more to do With this. I didn't think this would be a three-parter. Yeah, and I told boss and coach, I said, hey, how about if this is a one-parter? And they said you know what, coach?

Speaker 3 2:39:52

Well, we're gonna make this a seven-parter. He's like I don't give a damn how many part is, as long as I get walked.

Speaker 2 2:39:59

Now, yeah, biggie, biggie needs, he needs some relief. What coach you should try being?

Speaker 3 2:40:04

a good talker once. It's all right, buddy, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 2:40:08

He's suffering, just so in on this. Show it proof Exactly All right, when people want to find biggie Smalls where they find us on what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 2:40:19

Now you can be there you go. They find us that we align, that's we aligned out of line calm, and this is where you can learn more about how a seven-pound dog Dominates a hundred ninety pound man.

Speaker 2 2:40:34

There you go. That's good. That's good. And boss, I know there are no animals who love you, but no God, not even humans.

Speaker 4 2:40:46

Still on Twitter, more on blue sky. Both places is dumbily underscore chambers. You can find me someday, I promise, getting vector writing at the antagonist, which is antagonist, blog calm. More likely find me posting things about Doctor who and Bob's burgers in our community site, it. There there is an episode of Bob's burgers that I'm gonna need to talk about as we're coming up on the Christmas season. I'm just not sure what I'm gonna work it into the conversation.

Speaker 2 2:41:14

I Can't wait. I enjoy everything you post in the community site and also how you have your, your sister, on the community site. So it's like boss will be like, hey coach, c is a real ass hat. And then her sister will come in and be like, yeah, mm-hmm, that's the. That's the dynamic. I'm actually fucking hype man in the group. I'm just to back up everything you say.

Speaker 4 2:41:41

Yeah, no, I'm actually a little bit, not a little bit. I'm very pleased that she, ellen, got to meet a bunch of other butter cops during one of our meetups, virtually, and actually see that there was another person who had a voice similar to mine and the same last name, because that way it doesn't just seem like I'm two different Avatars talking about. I have proof that I am not Doing this shit.

Speaker 2 2:42:06

Ellen. Ellen is great and and we love her, love, all the buttercups. Thank you to everyone for for listening, for supporting the show. We are gonna continue finishing up Wayne, and we would like you to support your local libraries in the written word and we will be back next time with part three. Hopefully that will be. That'll be enough to to get through Dell, which is Wayne, episode 5?. Thanks for listening, everybody, and until next time we are.

Speaker 4 2:42:41

Richmond till we tell coach to get off mute, because I'm doing this by myself, I think that's hilarious, keep it great job, coach.

Speaker 2 2:42:51

Great job, great job. You're really good at this, coach. In case anyone wonders yes, that is, you're channeling me biggie, thank you, do you yell?

Speaker 3 2:43:06

at everyone. How dare you, dear God?

Speaker 2 2:43:10

We'll see you next time, holy macro, wow, wow.