Ted Lasso | S2 Ep9 Part1 "Beard After Hours"

The Tedcast is a deep dive podcast exploring the masterpiece that is Ted Lasso on Apple TV+.

Sponsored by Pajiba and The Antagonist, join Boss Emily Chambers and Coaches Bishop and Castleton as they ruminate on all things AFC Richmond.

Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop
Coach Castleton

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the lasso way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 2 0:40

Okay, welcome back everybody. Today we're discussing Ted Lasso season two, episode nine. Beard after hours Boss, a masterpiece.

Speaker 3 0:51

Obviously.

Speaker 2 0:52

Yeah.

Speaker 3 0:53

Was there a question about that?

Speaker 2 0:54

I think in a lot of minds there are. That's why I didn't call Coach to start this puppy.

Speaker 3 1:00

Yeah, I had foolish people tell me that they didn't understand it or didn't care for it, or that it was the worst episode of the series, and I told them that they should quit, and then they did. Actually, one of the people was my boss and then he left right after that, so maybe it was really effective.

Speaker 2 1:22

I thought and we'll get into this I think for the people that were starting to waver on season two, this felt like a dose of medicine. This episode. It felt like, oh okay, you still understand me. And for the people who like for me, it was like a ray of sunshine. And then, after watching it now several times, I thought, okay, is this like the version of the Ted Lasso universe that's designed for chaotic people or people who really deeply understand loss and misery, and that's why this episode is powerful for certain people, whereas most of the Ted Lasso universe is designed for people who are really striving for order and like meaning. Not that meaning isn't part of this also, but it's sort of a different trajectory. Before we get into today, I want to read you a poem from Hafiz, who's a Sufi poet, 14th century Sufi poet. You guys ready for this?

Speaker 4 2:29

Obviously.

Speaker 2 2:31

The small man builds cages for everyone he knows, while the sage, who has to duck his head when the moon is low, keeps dropping keys all night long for the beautiful, rowdy prisoners.

Speaker 3 2:48

Yes, clearly I mean it's like he wrote that for Beard. How could he have not?

Speaker 2 2:55

Right, yeah, beard as sage makes a lot of sense to me.

Speaker 3 3:01

Yeah, sorry to jump in real quick. I just want to say, in regards to your last statement, kasselton, about the chaos versus order, is that when I was in college, my roommate and I who I've mentioned before she is sunshine and delight personified and I am me and she used to sometimes come back and like put on the TV and I had queued it up to the scene in Goodwill Hunting where Will and Minnie Driver, whose character's name I can't remember right now, were breaking up.

Speaker 4 3:33

She was like Scott.

Speaker 3 3:34

Oh, thank you, God. God, that's a good movie. But I used to just watch that scene over and over again and she's like what is wrong with you? That that is the part of the movie that you want to watch and I'm like, but they're so sad. How do you not want to watch it? Like, how do you not want to enjoy the heartache and the despair happening? So I think you're right in a lot of respects about what draws people to Ted Lasso and also then why season two was so divisive for us, because I wanted the pain and they didn't really bring it until right now.

Speaker 4 4:05

If they made a door dash for hugs, I would send you one. I really would, my goodness, queue up the misery I feel off balance. What if?

Speaker 3 4:21

I swear to God, I used to watch it like for fun, for fun and like oh, I've got 15 minutes before class, let's pop in some misery.

Speaker 2 4:29

For anybody listening. I want to point out that coach does not have his foot on a small child. He has a new puppy.

Speaker 4 4:37

I do. I do. Yeah, he has some questions about the early episode. We won't get into that now. Fair, he was not pleased.

Speaker 2 4:52

We pick up at the end of episode eight. But now we're at Beard's perspective, subjective camera from the Beard point of view. When he says, listen, I got to shake this off, ted tells him to be careful. Beard does like this fantastic sort of yeah, no, yeah, whatever, that's a fucking platitude, kind of like what you know what I'm going to do, kind of thing and says yeah, beard walks away. Ted reminds him tomorrow is his turn for coffee and game footage, bright and early, just what you want to hear when you're about to tie one on or sulk. And as he walks off this is the point we see once again Ted saying hey, bird by bird the Annie Lamott reference of taking things one step at a time and Beard flips him off. We see that from Beard's perspective. Ted at this point is sort of out of focus in the background and we follow Beard as he heads out.

Speaker 3 5:58

I would only like to back up shockingly. I agree with Beard. I would like to back up that movement that he made when Ted told him to be careful, because I understand that the I had a roommate in college who I love very much, but she would say that every time I walked out the door, different roommate, be safe, be careful, blah, blah, blah. I shouldn't say blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry, bean, you're lovely, I love you. I apologize, but I always thought, like there's only so much I can do about that, like maybe I'll be careful, but there's a whole fucking world out there.

Speaker 3 6:31

Like I'll do what I can, I guess. So yeah, it's platitude.

Speaker 2 6:35

No, it is. You know what I mean. Like there's this thing in New England where I don't know if this exists elsewhere, but people say be good when they leave you and they depart. Do you have this? Hey, be good.

Speaker 4 6:44

Huh, not that phrase specifically, but I get the energy you're referencing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 6:51

Yeah. So like I've taught my kids to squint suspiciously when people tell them Like it's such a great thing, and they'll tell me they're like oh yeah. This person said, oh hey, all, right, now be good, huh.

Speaker 2 7:04

And I go and my kids go not that we don't want to be good, but like don't tell me to be good, dude. It's that kind of thing with Ted. It's like, okay, yes, I know you're trying to be, you know the dorm mother, but you know what's going to happen. You know how I react to humiliating, dehumanizing losses and like being safe is not, you know, among the top 12 priorities, I would think for Beard.

Speaker 3 7:34

Yeah, I mean also there's a part of me in that that responds the same way that Gretchen Cutler from You're the Worst, who I've referenced before one time. When her hopefully soon to be husband said, do you actually want to marry me? She shouted stop bullying me. So I kind of get that too like, even if you want me to be safe, please don't tell me what to do. I am a grown person. I'll take care of myself. Thank you, I will not be good if I don't feel like it.

Speaker 2 8:04

We have all sorts of. This is a this episode represents. I mean, there's so many ways to describe it and we're going to try to do all of them as we are want to do, but we begin with a beautiful shot of a blue moon. You saw me standing alone is an interesting line from the song where Beard will talk later on in the episode about how all his happiest moments are in the space of aloneness. I also think there probably is nothing in this world sunnier in disposition than a Ted Lasso sort of episode and the Ted Lasso believe dynamic.

Speaker 2 8:48

And so to begin an episode walking into the darkness and walking into the moon, you know based on Luna, and you have Lunatic, and so there's this sort of weird down the rabbit hole kind of vibe that we go into, maybe set up once upon a time by Beard admitting that he had a mushroom cocktail. I drank the wrong. He was swimming during one of the games. So we've set up a thing where, you know, beard is just heading away from the light and into the darkness to sort of recover himself after this tremendous loss. And I want to say about the loss it was, I think they did a great job of explaining just what a decimation it was, and using Terry Henry and you know, the announcers to really talk through like this this was a dismantling and it was embarrassing, and so that's a big thing that Beard is reacting to at this point.

Speaker 4 10:00

I was interested in this sort of exchange and, as they, because I get it, I have been both of them at different moments in my life in terms of like, all right, that's enough. You know, I've been where Beard is, where it's like, nope, I don't want to talk about it or do anything remotely healthy about it, I want to go obliterate brain cells. I get it. And I thought I thought it was interesting because Ted was Ted, didn't? Ted didn't go so far as to say, hey, nah, why don't you just take the bus back with us? You know, like, but you know. So I thought he, I thought he was trying to express some concern and say, hey, we're literally not in Kansas anymore, so, you know, be careful out there. But also I get it that this is what you need to do.

Speaker 2 10:55

Well, think about it coach, like imagine, let's say, you and I had a team together, or you and boss, or one, you know some combination of us had a team together, right, and? And let's say, through our 20s we coached this team and any time we had a big loss we would kind of go tie one on together, or you know sort of like. You know sort of like go out into the night and and use that as a tool. And then Beard is like he invites Ted. He's like you want to come and Ted's like no, I got to call my son. I have a, you know, facetime. He doesn't say in this episode this is a remnant of last episode. But there is also that moment where you're like okay, someone else has figured out another way to navigate this and I and you know I am it might highlight his aloneness, is what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 11:45

Absolutely no. I hear that You're also dealing with a moment where Ted is actually choosing this, has chosen this moment to connect and for a guy who we know for connecting with people, maybe in the most real and vulnerable way we've seen, to this point in the show, I would almost argue definitely so. I think it's interesting that he's choosing to connect while Beard is choosing actively to disconnect in this moment, and I think that I think that's, I think that's. I don't think it's by mistake that they've chosen such divergent paths.

Speaker 2 12:26

So we fade into a shot over the train station. Wembley. Blue Boon is is the one of the Manchester City songs. I love that they've decided that Cine is is like the degenerate fan base. I know a lot of people will a lot of non city fans will will enjoy that choice. They go to the train station. I was expecting some friction for him as a lone Richmond fan, but he's fine on the train, so we. So we have a the nice time lapse effect and we have an acoustic sort of version of the theme music that is being played under Beard on the train and it's interesting because the way they did it Beard is just sort of a statue, he's just sort of looking out the window and this is. This is really interesting. You know, it might be all that you get. I guess this might well be it, and it seems like Beard is experiencing that in real time.

Speaker 3 13:37

Well, especially what you said about him being a statue was he said that he wanted to go out in order to shake it off and everybody is moving around him while he is still sort of stuck thinking about the moment or the game or whatever else.

Speaker 3 13:50

He's not shaking anything off yet. I think also one of the other things about Beard saying he needs to go shake it off or he needs to go, like, deal with it. So, like I've had a lot of therapy, I tried really hard, I've done a lot of processing and growing over my life, but the idea of experiencing emotions in real time in front of other people isn't something I do. I could talk about my emotions after the fact and like work with people to process through that, but it's always a matter of me doing it. And then I can go talk to you if you want, even to the point where there have been times before where something happens and someone's like how are you feeling? And I say, oh, I don't know yet, like I need to go figure it out, and then I'll come back and we could talk about it.

Speaker 3 14:41

So I think that the train scene especially is him like he's not quite there yet. He's going to sit in this funk for a second and then, after he gets off the train, he's going to go figure it out. But I really liked the opening scenes. I like the song. I like the fact that you said underbeard and that that was applicable in a way that didn't make it gross until I just said that right now, Whole thing is good.

Beard's Behavior and References Analysis

Speaker 2 15:05

Yeah, this, this and the Christmas episode both had like a unique title sequence Beard is. You know, I was just thinking that this is a. This is an example of I don't think I've had this experience yet but where something is your identity, like your vocation, and then you are, you know, on national TV, destroyed in the middle of that vocation. I would think that would be so, god, I just can't have this empathetic thing where I'm, you know, imagining coaching in that game and it's just just brutal when beard finally sort of snaps out of looking out the window, he turns his head and catches the eye of a little man city fan and starts like a intense stare off until the fans mother sort of glares at him and breaks it up and he's like, oh shit, like he just sort of, you know, realizes what he's doing and pops off the train which is such an excellent foil to.

Speaker 3 16:19

I want to say it's episode six, where Roy Kent, outside of the racetrack, growls at the Richmond fan, who is delighted because Roy Kent is not only at the game, where nobody expected him, but growling into his face. Like Roy can get away with it and beard cannot.

Speaker 4 16:38

That's that's interesting In this moment. I like to. That's a very interesting comparison between two characters. You know we definitely love very much maybe boss more than most but the piece that stood out to me was that we were was was beard essentially doing what we had just watched Ted do with JB? Right, ted had watched basically the boy release the anger he held toward the father and that you know he's had this ongoing thing with Jamie and the dad and then it all came together. I'm wondering if this, if somehow beard was looking for his little boy I mean he's got the like she won't tell me she loves me thing going on. You know, I don't know.

Speaker 4 17:29

It felt like there was some parallel searching going on.

Speaker 3 17:36

That I hadn't considered and now I'm thinking through it and it's really interesting, in the same ways that Ted needed Jamie to actually do some of the processing that Ted wasn't able to, if Beard is looking for that elsewhere and not able to find it. Now I'm going to need to think about it a lot more.

Speaker 2 18:01

I'm going to be curious about that. Not judgmental, I don't. The individual conduits of that haven't lined up yet for me, but let's keep exploring that as we go. So Beard's off the train. He's walking through the rain as the second course of the theme song plays, the normal part of the intro that says Heaven knows, I tried. He walks up to his house, turns the key to get in Initially it's the type of old style skeleton key looking key thing with a whole guard, which I guess is a thing, and he sort of has to fiddle with it and the key works.

Speaker 2 18:52

He enters size, takes his jacket off, throws on a replay of the game, turns the TV on. It, goes right to the game like a replay and it's hosted in real life by Gary Lenaker and Terry Henry and they are just sort of going on. And this is where I say the show does a great job of highlighting what a destruction it was. It was moment after moment, just like this, a real David versus Goliath match. But Goliath just curb, stomped David in the back of the skull, like that Ed Norton movie and they say Moonrise Kingdom. But it was actually White Boss.

Speaker 3 19:32

American History X, like what a great this is actually. When I did the rewatches, this was one of the things that finally caught my ear slash eye and I was like how do you, how do you confuse Moonrise Kingdom a delightful Wes Anderson, I don't know, so delightful that I didn't even like it that much Not my favorite Wes Anderson movie about kids running off to like live together on the beach versus American History X, where Edward Norton starts the movie by killing a black man because he's a racist and then he goes to jail. Great, I love it. I love everything about it except for the murder.

Speaker 2 20:17

Yeah, so American History X. I was wanting to see if Coach was going to respond to the killing of a black man thing.

Speaker 4 20:25

Well, interestingly, I mean, that scene was what it was and infuriating and scary and all the things, but also I really liked that movie a lot. I thought it was an interesting one to have referenced in that context and I was wondering where the where Beards, let's call it imagining of what Tia Henry had to say and Gary Link had to say. I was wondering if it had already begun there. I just found it like an odd reference that they would be referencing Edward movies to explain this beat down and that you know what. I mean. I don't know and I could be wrong. I mean, entertainment goes global, but I just I wondered if we were getting the beginnings of him not actually hearing what's going on so much as putting something in its place.

Speaker 3 21:22

Oh, I definitely thought that that was Beards. That was Beard inside Beard's head at this point not what they actually said Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 21:34

I thought it was what they actually said. So that's good, this is a good thing, but Biggie is agreeing with me.

Coach Beard's Insecurities and Film References

Speaker 4 21:39

And I noticed that while you're talking.

Speaker 1 21:41

Coach, he's just whining because he doesn't. He agrees with his uncle.

Speaker 4 21:45

I'm going to call it a timeout. What is the upset about? Hold on, I will be right back. I'm sorry, okay.

Speaker 2 21:54

So, while coach is off, I'm going to say that if there was ever any doubt that this was a Gen X show, first of all, this is written by Brett Goldstein and Joe Kelly, the unsung hero of Ted Lasso. I always maintain that he is the secret sauce, but yeah, I mean. The amount of references, movie references, film references in this little homage is in this episode are insane.

Speaker 3 22:24

I would like to add I don't know if Joe Kelly is the secret sauce, because, well, I've mentioned other places, but shrinking.

Speaker 4 22:31

All right, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 22:36

We just continued Coach. So while you were doing your business we kept going. But I'm glad you just jump right in, just interrupt boss whenever you want.

Speaker 4 22:45

I'm so sorry, I didn't. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 22:50

As I've mentioned, I have so many siblings, I'm super used to it. No, shrinking also on Apple TV Bill Lawrence and Brett Goldstein I've been watching lately. Maybe they're the secret sauce, because shrinking I know. Harrison Ford, jason Siegel, jessica Williams totally amazing Also. Oh my God, it's so good. Also, I did want to mention because I watched way too many of their late night interviews. I know that Jason Sudeikis at least calls Joe Kelly Joker and I find that very endearing. That's it. That's all I had to say about him.

Speaker 2 23:26

Yeah, no, no, I know. Every time there's one person hovering in the background, I always just assume they're the. He gets the least press of everyone and you don't hear a whole lot about Joe Kelly, everyone else. Brett Goldstein, I think, is already writing my obituary. Brett Goldstein's writing everything on the planet right now and he's everywhere. He's like everywhere.

Speaker 3 23:49

He's starring in everything.

Speaker 2 23:51

Right, anyway, okay. So Teri Henry says yeah. Well, for me the match is a real Cinderella story. If her glass slipper broke and sliced her Achilles tendon, which is I chuckled, I got a boost. No, it's good. It's good, Just, man, that freaks me out. Any tensioning part of the human body that gets cut, it freaks me out. Okay, so the announcers continue and Beard grabs a beer from the fridge. He opens up his contact to who? Boss?

Speaker 3 24:30

Jane, obviously.

Speaker 2 24:33

Jane Payne, and he stares at it, but he does not call her. And then what do we hear on the television?

Speaker 3 24:45

So we hear the announcer saying Coach Beard knew an aggressive offensive strategy was a snake. He should not have let Ted Nathan and Roy convince him otherwise. Great point. I'm going to butcher this guy's name Teri yeah. Teri, teri Henry.

Speaker 2 25:00

Yep, that's it.

Speaker 3 25:02

And that's only because, luckily, beard chats it so much in the episode. Great point. Teri. Coach Beard is Ted Lasso's number two. He's supposed to challenge him, not just being a sniveling lackey. And then it cuts to Beard. He's freaking out and says look, gary, the man has no vava vavum. Does anything? Say sad single man more than a chessboard coffee table?

Speaker 4 25:23

That made me. Yeah, I was going to say, are we going to act like that one?

Speaker 3 25:26

Because I laughed when that was said, I did laugh Also, especially because does that say sad single man? Are there loads of single men out in the world with chess coffee tables?

Speaker 4 25:38

I was not aware of that as a thing, which was part of why I laughed, because I thought that's when we have things about ourselves, you know what I mean that we just sort of decide they mean things. I have never heard that, ever before.

Speaker 2 25:55

To me. Ok, I'm going to call it. Every time I see some reference to another film that felt a lot like the one Harry Metzali wagon wheel table reference to me. Ooh yeah, that's where they're like oh, here's a coffee table. I don't know.

Speaker 2 26:11

Listen, there's so many film references in this episode maybe the most of any of the episodes. This was just like a joyride for Brent and Joe. I'm telling you it's crazy how many things OK. So the announcer having broken the fourth wall into Beards Home, literally pointing at the chessboard coffee table. I know I'm French and I'm expected to say things like this, but I hate Coach Beard.

Speaker 3 26:44

Shut up, Terry Henry.

Speaker 2 26:45

That's right, exactly. This is either happening in some form of a bizarro simulation or Beard has ingested some more mushroom tea. Yeah, something along those lines, some psilocybin or this is the manifestation of Beards' shame and resentment and frustration and anger and self-loathing.

Speaker 4 27:20

I read it as the latter, but I'm curious. Yeah, I know me too OK.

Speaker 3 27:26

And I'll say that I know. Later in episodes I'm going to pick on the writers for their depictions of insecurities.

Speaker 3 27:35

I don't want to say mental illness necessarily, because that has a whole connotation but insecurities or weird things we do and the way that they're addressed through therapy. So I want to say that this is so perfect in terms of depicting what it actually feels like to have an inferiority complex. People think that it's like your and that it's all want-want and I hate myself and I think I'm terrible. And this is so perfectly. Beard doesn't necessarily think that he is bad or that he did a terrible job. He is terrified that other people are going to be seeing badness in him and then talking about it and that's so dead on. It's not even what you think about yourself. It's just like unsubstantiated fear that other people are just going to see all of the worst parts of you. It's so perfect, it's great, or it's the least that they're going to see the worst parts of you right.

Speaker 3 28:29

Yeah, I shouldn't be smiling when I say it. It sounds so weird that I'm like oh, he feels terrible about himself, but it's a really good scene.

Exploring the Importance of Silence

Speaker 2 28:37

I like it, yeah, but if they capture it and I think this episode does a really good job of capturing things that other shows don't yes, I'll talk about how. I think this is a masterpiece in season two and I think it's like an oasis for those of us who were starting to question some of the methodology behind the plot and some of the Ted beats and some of the choices of how to spend writing time and screen time. There are certain things I'm like, oh, get rid of this so we can have more important things that are more germane to the plot. But I think it's also unique in the television world that it did I don't know, it had a fever dream quality to it where it captured some Odyssean voyage of some kind that happened over one night. There were these weird I don't know, weird is not right these yeah, I've said down the rabbit hole. So it did feel like sort of a Lewis and Carroll, like a Alice in Wonderland sort of trip that he goes on in order to have some sort of cathartic moment during it that he's in search of and we'll talk about how he's in search of that or what he's actually in search of, what he thinks he needs and the commenters.

Speaker 2 30:04

Terry Henry has a great line later that I tend to agree with. But anyway, this, this shut up Terry Henry, is an exciting event for him and his home Coach. You have something before we leave the house.

Speaker 4 30:19

Well, yeah, I'll just you know, in terms of the self loathing piece and the shame and what I thought, that they also did a great job. His goal is to silence that voice, which I think you know. I'm just saying if I'd ever participate in this kind of thing which I said a few minutes ago I had that that is very real. Quickly, I'll share a story that the short ish version is that the girls dating in college we would get into some disagreements from time to time and had some pretty sharp things to say to one another. And one day she said to me you're, you're a mean drunk, why do you drink? And I and I said to get some fucking quiet. That was my actual and those of you who have dinner for two.

Speaker 4 31:11

Know that that line actually made it into the script and I meant that in a number of ways I did mean please, god, shut up. But I also meant the the like I need some quiet, like I live in the unquiet and I don't want it to be that way. So I think it's interesting that, like all this stuff is bubbling up and his reaction to it is shut up, right, it's not to engage and argue, it's not to defend the choice, it's not to say yeah, you're right, I knew that we shouldn't have done that. It's shut up. He's just trying to silence it, he's just trying to mute it, and I think that's what you know. Going out and tying one on is right. Like you're just trying to mute it.

Speaker 3 31:53

Yeah, and I think that's great. Yeah, I think that's really great. And also I I mean, I knew that you and I had I don't want to say kinship, but maybe but also the idea of needing the quiet, because sometimes it's not always outside of your head that you need the quiet. Yeah, yep, I got you.

Speaker 2 32:19

I like the fact that you knew that, coach, because I think I've always been a dumber in a bag of hammers and whenever I, whenever I was in a moment where I was, like you know, the one that really see, I think I default to the. I mean not anymore, but in my younger days, when I was full of testosterone, I think I would just default to rage. And I think that's what you see all over the world in stupid young men. And I think until we give young men a means to accommodate and understand the hormones that are pumping inside of them, combined with a moment of when they're shamed or embarrassed or humiliated, there's this thing, boss, do you know? I didn't know if they had this terminology with you. I think they probably did in your wrestling days. Do you? Are you familiar with the term quick pin?

Wrestling Pins and Heartbreak

Speaker 3 33:23

Not specifically.

Speaker 2 33:24

Okay, so up in the Northeast in the wrestling vernacular, a quick pin was if you pin someone within the first minute of the match, which is it's tough to do because people are, you know, they're trying to not be pinned.

Speaker 4 33:44

I went to pin the guy in seven seconds. Intramural wrestling True story. Continue your point.

Speaker 2 33:52

My point was I had a bunch of quick pins when I was wrestling and I remember this one time where I was like, okay, like you know, just like a decent, you know again, like very middling wrestler. The league I was in was not great, but I remember I had to go up against this one guy. It was later in the season and I had a bunch of wins, so I just felt good. And the coach came up to me. He was like he was a coach that I knew he wasn't my coach. But I said, oh, hey, you know, I got to wrestle this guy and I said do you have any advice for me? And he says stay away from him. And I was like, yeah, he was like just stay away from him, just try to stay away from him as long as you can.

Speaker 2 34:32

And I was like oh God, and it was the only time in my career that I was quick pinned. This guy was like I can't. He went on to like I don't think he went to nationals, I don't think he did anything at national, but he went there and I was like, oh, he's a, he's a monster, like you know what I mean. Like he's a, he's like a human vice, and I was just like pure muscle. I had like no, nothing but muscle on me and this guy, just, I think it was like 47 seconds and I remember feeling so embarrassed and you know, just like went into the bathroom and like kicked the door of the stall or something like that, because, if you don't know, like I didn't go in there, what I'm.

Speaker 2 35:11

This is the reason I say this is because I was admiring what coach said about oh, when I would go, I would want the silence. You actually had some goal and I think that's like, that's like step, step two. I didn't even know what the goal. I just was in complete reaction to, you know, the flood of emotion and, and you know, I tend to think this is what, when people get radicalized and things like that, it's people tapping into these, these powerful emotions that you have. But anyway I. That's why I say, oh yeah, I think that's cool that you were searching for something, cause I didn't even know what I was looking for at that point.

Speaker 2 35:51

Anyway, the, the, the Terry Henry, the, the shut up Terry Henry is the inciting incident that gets beer to zip up with authority on his jacket, chugs his beer nightclub jitters by, the replacement starts playing and he walks out the door as he slams down his empty bottle. We cut to May slamming down a fresh beer at the pub. She asks if Ted will be joining him and Beard says no and May says Jane coming. And what does he say, boss?

Speaker 3 36:29

We broke up and may sarcastically says shocking.

Speaker 4 36:39

I love her so much.

Speaker 3 36:41

Yeah, and then Beard starts in on exactly why they broke up this time. Apparently, he says she accused me of being jealous, Me because I told her. It's hard to know where I stand, which you know, because she never says I love you and did you say it to her. He says I did, and she says and did she say it back? And she says she did not, and she goes oh, and he says thank you for helping me relive that Right.

Speaker 2 37:12

That's exactly right. And she says well, you must feel awful. Reason is powerless and the expression of love, she says. And she says what coach?

Speaker 4 37:21

No, I meant about the match. What the hell was your thinking behind those tactics? I love, I want it, I just I could just jump. I could have jumped up and down with glee in that moment here Because, yeah, like, sorry, your heart's broken, but what the fuck man Like? It was so funny to me that that really was what she like. He had what he wanted to talk about, but she had what she wanted to talk about.

Speaker 4 37:48

I'll point out, by the way, that there's a Because I'm doing some work right now in terms of my own trauma, because everybody wanted to know that. But there there's a way of remembering that doesn't mean reliving, and I think it's interesting and I did not notice that until this, this conversation we were going through here that he says thank you for helping me relive that, and that's a specific way to engage a Trauma, to relive it. That's called, that's like a flashback. I had a trauma response, that's whatever you want it, but it's that's a thing that I and and that's different than remembering something and that it hurt, and I think it's significant that that's what that's the word he uses there.

Beard's Search for Love and Acceptance

Speaker 4 38:34

That he is still, as he's thinking about it, experiencing the emotions as if for the first time, as if yeah yeah, as if it's happening right now, and I think that's significant in terms of his responses and what doesn't doesn't make sense about his choices and his behaviors in this episode, much as we Appreciate them and enjoy the episode. I mean, there were definitely moments in this where I was like fuck, is you doing, man?

Speaker 3 39:00

I Would like to quickly mention you set in there that everybody wanted to hear about your trauma. So there's a scene in new girl. Nick Miller, another love of my life, is mad at his father and so he goes to Mad fix the sink. And he's shouting as he's banging on the pipes and not fixing it. Do you want to know why I messed up? Do you want to know why I have anger issues? Do you want to know? I can't trust anybody and so additional Jessica Day says oh yes, I do.

Speaker 3 39:35

And and that was my response- I know you were joking, but oh yes, I would like tell me more about your trauma, please.

Speaker 4 39:44

Absolutely. We get set up a whole other other podcast, so we're on our way, but that's very funny, we actually don't there's. I'm going to pin that because there's actually there's there. There's something that I am dealing with right now, actually about like reliving stuff for my childhood and I think it will be helpful to our conversation, as as all this continues to unfold, of people sort of unpacking and dealing with their stuff. But yeah, I will. I promise you will get some of my trauma on this recording one of these. Yes, Fantastic.

Speaker 2 40:22

I would say that I don't know how to remember something without reliving it even right now Interesting. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't. Yeah, no, no, I don't Like everything's super fresh, super fresh, like I just go fuck, like I feel it all. Again, I don't, I don't have the ability to. So, coach, you're gonna have to. Once you, once you get a handle on your trauma, maybe you can tackle mine.

Speaker 3 40:46

Yeah, I feel like we're sort of I Can't feel anything after the facts and you can only feel it at the time. We need to figure out how to how to meet halfway where we just have normal feelings.

Speaker 2 41:00

Seriously, what was that be like? Imagine that.

Speaker 3 41:04

I took all of your boundary, I took all of your siloing, and now you have none. You're just up against the forces of your emotion.

Speaker 2 41:14

Well, so beard runs away from the, from the bar Once he realizes this is gonna be May's conversation and he goes to sip his beer and Sit at a table and oh my god, this is so goddamn funny, coach. What is what is may say to him while he's like yelling at his back? What does she say?

Speaker 4 41:40

Well, she, she goes into a whole thing about said tactics. So, but come on, there's no way you thought coming out on attack was a good idea. You basically left the road back there to defend by himself in a semi-final a Semi-final when she yelled, a semi-final, and she screamed I Cackle, can I?

Speaker 4 42:01

I still will watch because they show it all the time. When Villanova beat Georgetown and I in 85, I can tell you exactly where I was in my living room as the final seconds ticked off and I Screamed like such a lunatic that my mother emerged from her bedroom and promised that if I didn't knock it off, she was never gonna let me watch sports again. And too, this day I get like a little bit of a knot in my stomach when I see clips from that game, so that like visceral, oh my god, so much was on the line for me because we our sports fans and we're insane that I lack Cackled when she screamed a semi-final final.

Speaker 2 42:47

So Beard looks down at his phone as as May is screaming behind him, and he sees only three minutes ago there were four texts from from Jane Payne. And what did they say, boss?

Speaker 3 43:03

I saw the result Unlucky. Come find me, you'll feel better.

Speaker 2 43:09

I mean, unlucky is so great, my God unlucky is so great.

Speaker 3 43:13

But I have to wonder I'm sorry anybody who's ever texted me. I promise that I'm trying to get over it, but when I get like texts like that right in a row, I'm like just make it one, just make it one text. I don't understand this. Could all be one paragraph, jane. Why are there four separate texts there? But I'm a, I'm a paragraph texture like my texts are very long.

Speaker 4 43:41

I didn't think about that, but that's it. I mean it's interesting, yeah, was it meant to show I didn't think about it, but was it meant to show that she sent, didn't get anything, try it again, didn't get? Like, is it supposed to be that, or is it? You know what I mean? Like I know some people where you do just get the like buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, right, like it's just yeah that's how.

Speaker 2 44:04

That's how I read it.

Speaker 3 44:06

But so I thought that it was. It must be a trigger for my anxiety, because I feel like if I'm getting taxed after taxed after tax, something bad has happened and I need to respond right away. So if I get four of them right in a row, I'm like, well, somebody died. And then when it's just I didn't want to put punctuation in, I'm like boss up and add a period. What are you doing? So I'm just an asshole about texts. Apparently is what this comes down to.

Speaker 2 44:38

This, by the way, this, what what's introduced when he's sitting in front of me is, is an interesting sort of moment because it sort of introduces the, the dual or competing spines of the episode. So is this episode about beard clearing his head vis a vis the game, you know, a soccer delineation? Is this about a search for Jane Payne and the him trying to figure out the nature of that relationship and whether or not it'll continue? Or is it all sort of intertwined into some amalgam of all of Beards? You know various questions, and this is where it sort of starts to begin in front of me. And then, when she prioritizes the, the soccer part, he, you know, beats a hasty retreat and right away he's confronted with the texts from Jane Payne, you know what he says, a version of Do you love me?

Speaker 4 45:54

To Ted, to Jane and to May, and each time to some, to his experience I'm not saying what they're actually looking to communicate, but to his experience the answers no.

Speaker 2 46:09

Oh yeah, that's fascinating.

Speaker 1 46:10

What a great, what a great great observation you want to come right, you know you want to.

Speaker 4 46:15

You want to come, yeah, I want to come with Ted.

Speaker 2 46:17

No.

Speaker 4 46:18

Right, jane, I love you. Do you love me? Not really, no, may, I'm trying to open up and work through my problems. Fuck, was y'all doing at the quarter, at the semifinal, right? Like it's like wow, like he's just like every time he's like this anybody love me, everybody's like man.

Speaker 2 46:35

Terry Henry says he hates him Right, right.

Speaker 4 46:39

Yeah.

Speaker 3 46:40

Oh yeah, oh, that's so he's so is he?

Speaker 2 46:43

is this episode about him looking for love and acceptance? Is that what it is about?

Speaker 3 46:50

I have an answer for that, but it comes later, so I think maybe I'll I will revisit it. I'm not sure All right Coach hasn't yet.

Speaker 2 46:56

No, no, he's usually not, he doesn't have great observation. He had one just now, but usually no, so he's going to be cash for a bit, that's he's going to build up some, some stamina.

Speaker 4 47:09

I love cash from some obviously someone who doesn't smoke any weed.

Speaker 3 47:15

Wait, what's weed? Sorry, mom, All right. So she says, beard asks where she is, she may be right away. She replies there's no waiting, I've gone to a club.

Speaker 2 47:25

I think it's what you need. And he goes to reply I told you how I felt and I can't keep doing this if you won't. Like this is, first instinct is to type that out. And then he does the thing where he deletes it, and then he goes to the club. And then he goes to the club. And then he goes to the club, he deletes it and is trying to figure out what to do. Then who should show up? But Jeremy, baz and Paul, and they return the keys for the first time that he has dropped and Baz and Paul, who are behind Beards, start to talk to him. Baz mentions it was a rough match. Paul says they thought he might need a hug and then Paul corrects it and says he thought he needed a hug.

Speaker 4 48:14

Paul thought that I cannot ever get tired of this. Like super soft Paul element it just I love it, like I just every time they do it, I love it a little bit more.

Speaker 2 48:30

I mean Paul, what a character Paul. I mean right. Then Jeremy asked if Beard wants to talk about it and Beard says I mean this is, this is such a God, what a beautiful. This is such a great great, just great writing, great writing. We all know how this goes right. Every other show on television we know exactly how this goes. They say hey, do you want to talk about it? He says no, and then he just really, really wants them to fuck off. Right, he's just completely closed off. If this is ever any other show completely closed off.

Speaker 2 49:04

Get the fuck away from me. This is the last thing I want is a bunch of fucking groupies and nitwits like local nitwits, you know peppering me with bullshit. He says we can talk and drink as long as we talk about anything, but as long as we talk about anything but the game and drink and the, the guys, they, they zip into seats across from him. Jeremy asks if he's ever been to Vegas, vaz asks what is what Ted is like behind closed doors and Paul asks how do you cope, knowing the universe is infinite but your consciousness can end in a second?

Exploring Ted Lasso's Character Depth

Speaker 4 49:44

Oh God, so good. Just I, just that character. I've never here's what I'm realizing it, or maybe I again, but it's I've I have never in 50 years of life seen this black character. Yes, yes, that's what that's, that's part of it. Like the black guy is supposed to be the cool one in the group who's telling the white guys like hey, don't do that, don't do that. And he's just not there. He grows his little flowers and he's scared of garden snakes and he's he's kind of does a high pitch squeal with things that are either great or awful. Like I just love this fucking character.

Speaker 2 50:24

It is. It's brilliant, it's a brilliant character. And so we sit with Bated Breath because we know it's coming. We've watched television our whole lives. Beard is going to check out and tell him to fuck off or just leave. He might just like walk the fuck out without a word. And instead, what does he say? Boss, I've been to Vegas many times.

Speaker 3 50:47

One night is good, two nights is perfect, three is too many. Ted is a man, just a man. And as for the fragility of life, I'm so glad someone finally asked Because, yeah, I've got a few thoughts.

Speaker 4 50:59

Speaking of stages, I mean you kind of nailed the stage. They apparently right. I mean good job coach, because yeah, he, he's ready to rock, Right, I love that he had that in his back pocket.

Speaker 3 51:14

I am poor. I've been stalling on writing this post about how linear time travel movies taught me to believe in God and he's really mad that I can't get around to doing it. And I feel like if somebody would just sit down with a pint and ask hey, do you have any thoughts on time travel movies? Be like, yes, it's my moment. This is what I've been waiting for. So yes, I'm assuming that he has some thoughts on this.

Speaker 2 51:49

I'm calling out Ted as a man. Just a man read to me like a big Lebowski, you know sort of reference it might not be. Sometimes there's a man. Well, he's the man for his time and his place. Interesting you know that. That that line by Sam Elliott. So we cut to many beers later and beard is like many beers, like the entire table is covered in empty glasses.

Speaker 3 52:18

Right, I have to say I haven't seen that, since I want to say that it was St Patrick's Day of 2008.

Speaker 4 52:29

And yeah no for real.

Speaker 3 52:30

The boyfriend and I had just moved in together in the city where all of our friends already lived, so there was a group of about eight of us who went out on St Patrick's Day and drank every car bomb that's ever existed, and a car bomb, if you don't know, is yeah.

Speaker 2 52:50

Jesus.

Speaker 3 52:50

Christ, yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why we did that, but it's a shot of Bailey's Irish cream into a glass of Guinness and then you chug the whole thing before it curdles in the glass. Because it will, because there's milk and alcohol involved, and we had an entire table covered like a table that could seat eight people With vomit. No, no, no, not a single one that night. Not a single one, I believe. I don't want to name couples, but I think one couple broke up that night but then got engaged two weeks later and are still married. So you know, it all worked out. In the end, everything's cool now.

Speaker 2 53:33

Amazing, amazing, yeah Well, I think the many people would agree with me that we will always and forever pine away for the cut of this episode where we get to hear the three hour. I want the fragility cut you know the beard fragility cut of this show where we get to hear his you know his pontification on the fragility of life. He finishes up and says so. In conclusion, if this is all indeed a simulation, which everything in my experience suggests that it is, then all we can do is tip our caps to the rascal pulling the strings, which, to me, is a one of many matrix callbacks or many matrix alligators.

Speaker 4 54:18

Well, I was going to point the. We have a friend in common, first name Jason coach, who is the first person who ever introduced me to the idea of like what if this is all a simulation? And you know, these are the kinds of conversations you have with him and I've thought it before, but never more than hear that this character feels like that friend that beard, feels like that friend in your life who, of course, has thoughts on the nature of the universe and the fragility of life, Like, of course he does right. And you know, he's the one who's going to tell you that I was told you something that didn't happen yet. So I'm going to shut up now.

Speaker 4 55:04

But he definitely is the one who's explored these things. He's had his mushroom trips. He became a tree, that became a drum set, that became a fish and he's got some thoughts Like it makes all the sense in the world, yeah.

Speaker 2 55:23

As you get older, I mean, you figure out, I don't know. You surround yourself with all kinds of people. There are people that are just regular smuggler sort of great friends who you know they like nothing better than hanging out and do regular stuff. And sometimes you have friends where you say like you can say something out of the blue like shake hands, give a hug, haven't seen him in a while, ask the question, you know, something like how do you cope, knowing the universe is infinite, but your consciousness can end in a second, and they'll be so excited to finally like if that's the level of depth they want in the conversation, and they're just so frustrated by the fact that that is a rare occurrence in the modern world. It's just, you know, a lot of people don't want to go that deep or can't go that deep. So, yes, it's a great, great, it's a wonderful feeling and you're in the mood to be in that sort of discussion and you actually have people that can do it with you and keep up with you, Sure and you know no-transcript.

Speaker 2 56:35

So yeah, may then closes the bar, just like my legs, after a date with a guy who kept correcting me. We are closed, says May, and Paul says he went on a date with Richard and Richard, do we know Richard?

Speaker 4 56:52

I think we've more so seen Richard or I, like he did look familiar to me as like a bar regular, but I'm not sure we've interacted with them much.

Speaker 2 57:03

Yeah boss, we haven't, you haven't. You don't remember Richard, right outside of this episode.

Speaker 3 57:08

No, I definitely not by name.

Speaker 2 57:10

Yeah, you want to deal with Richard. I think you'll find May. It was two dates. Richard says out, may says coffee was a date. I love these little things. There might have been that hotel guy and side beats. Yes.

Speaker 4 57:26

Well, here's what. I'm glad you mentioned that one, because it was that one was brilliant, right. So I just suggest you you know you flush it hard or whatever that was great, but what the show does brilliantly in this episode is like this sort of blown out to the nth degree is it assures us that these characters have lives beyond the narratives we're following, and they do a really good job of it in a number of places. Just little things that just let you know like you're seeing this part right, you got the microscope, but there is a, there is a whole existence going on around it, and I think it helps us to feel like we're part of the crew, that we're part of this, this click, this family, this whole life because of that.

Speaker 2 58:17

Yeah, you're talking about world building and where you feel like there is a world here, a world that has its own rules and identity and values and things like that. And, yeah, when you experience that from the outside, you go, oh there's, there's so much more to explore here. Yeah, this is like fascinating and right, and you get a little sliver of it and it makes you wonder geez, who else has made dated and you know, right, you know it's like so great.

Speaker 4 58:42

And in the category of yes and yes building the world, but also one of the best notes I got early on as for screen of screenwriting professor, was everyone the characters in your story don't know their secondary characters. In their story they're the main character and I feel like Ted Lasso is a show where everyone's the main character of their life. They're not there to service what we're doing. Otherwise, as my experience of it and I think that really helps us again, you know. So, yes, world building, but I think specifically doing that through characters is works so well for them.

Speaker 2 59:29

Yeah, not a good point.

Speaker 3 59:31

I love that you mentioned that lost the TV show. I feel like ironically it has been lost to time because the ending was so deeply unsatisfying for so many people. But in one of the earlier seasons, when it was really good, some of the tailies I believe they refer to them as so anybody who wasn't Jack and Sawyer and Kate and Hurley and the main group, everybody else on the island at one point calls out the fact that you guys think you're in charge of everything. You think everybody's live resolves around you and this whole like bit where the tailies were like actually we're doing our own thing and we don't care what you guys are doing. And it was so hysterical and so great to see a show that was about like supernatural smoke monsters. Take a break to remind everyone that there are other people on the island who don't give a shit about the fact that Jacob wants them all to stay. So, yes, love that.

Speaker 2 1:00:29

Yeah, no, that's great. I remember that episode, the tailies. I forgot that completely. Yeah, the tail is so funny. So now Beards phone. After Richard says coffee was a date, beards phone dings again. Jane is texting him. Okay, her message is a picture where it says after that she had said earlier I think it's what you need. He didn't respond, remember. He started to write a text and deleted it. Then he hung out with the guys, went into some long winded thing. But she has come back now and she sent him a picture of her in front of a neon cross and purple neon cross and she says I'm atoning for my sins with a big smile.

Speaker 2 1:01:21

I'm like I don't know how we even get through the amount of symbolism in this episode and how they use it, and I'm like, oh my God, like they're actually. So now they're introducing, like either the symbology of a religious element and in religion is often where lost people will find solace and I was like, okay, what are they telling us here? What is this so it's? Is she the holy grail, is the relationship, or is her attention what he needs right now, what he craves? Is he on? Is he Sir Gawain? I don't know. There's just, there's so much to it, and maybe it's just something as simple as once you put a purple neon cross in a picture, it's easier to identify that same symbol later, but I thought it was fascinating.

Speaker 2 1:02:27

I'm like wow they are really landed on thick here.

Speaker 4 1:02:31

Well, there are two directions that came immediately to mind. I'd be curious to be the V spoke to either of you. For me there's a scripture and I want to say it's a psalm. And if it's not a psalm, I apologize to all of you and to my late mother, who would be a guest. But at any rate, weeping may endure for a night, but joy is going to come in the morning and obviously there's the resurrection story. So there's potentially that way of looking at it. So that would be the second, but I but, as I rewatch this, that phrase is a psalm, by the way.

Speaker 4 1:03:05

It is a psalm Okay, cool, so joy come within the morning. There you go, mommy, there you go. You did all right.

Speaker 2 1:03:12

He's a good boy, mom.

Speaker 4 1:03:15

But yeah, I kept like, as I was rewatching it, sort of knowing where the roads lead us. I thought, huh, weeping may endure for a night, you know, like I wondered if that was in the heart of this episode.

Speaker 3 1:03:31

Well, yeah, yeah, and given my religious background, I would like to weigh in. What I know is that my older sister one time referred to him as Jesus and the big letter T, so I'm pretty sure that it's a psalm is what you were just referencing.

Speaker 2 1:03:48

That sounds correct the lowercase T no, thank you.

Speaker 3 1:03:53

Jesus, the big letter T, jesus Christ. They know that's his last name, you know him.

Speaker 4 1:04:02

You know him right, right right.

Speaker 2 1:04:05

I also. I thought it was such a fascinating choice at this point because I think we are meant to be torn about Jane Payne. I think we're meant to be curious if she is a good match for him, if she's the ideal partner for him. So I think it's conflicting for the audience, which is okay, and maybe that's part of the joy of this episode, because there is that duality, there is that conflict. Unlike many of the things where some of the concepts that Ted tries to introduce are crystallizing, this is confounding. You know, even this picture, you know, when I look at it on his phone, I first smiling in front of a neon cross and looks like I'm like what is what the fuck is happening here, and it's fascinating. It's just fascinating.

Speaker 2 1:05:00

And so, and I'm like, wait, do we, as the you know, does the Greek chorus per se want us to want him to follow her, or is that, you know, sort of a false? Is she leading him to damnation, kind of thing? You know, if we're looking at the vernacular of the imagery, so I don't know. I thought, wow, this is really interesting and I liked that. It was sort of confounding.

Speaker 4 1:05:30

I think, yes, I think mystery, you know, is a key part of this. I think some things happen that you know in another context and less in a play, in a show, less well written and where we didn't care as much about the characters. I mean, I could see an entire episode of us screaming about coincidences and you know all this kind of stuff. But I think it's important that she says I think it's what you need and, as a writer, again coming at it from that angle for a moment wants, needs is like a sort of core and basic thing in terms of looking at a character. Was a character, what was a character need? And it seems to me that maybe Jane, whether she's 100% the healthiest thing in his life, maybe Jane understands Beard on a level that allows her to understand what he needs, and even if what he thinks he wants is for him to say I love you and her to say I love you back right there in that moment, and for them to have something approaching normality, that this is more how they get down.

Speaker 3 1:06:46

Yes, and also I love that you said what he wants and what he needs and when those things come into conflict my favorite kinds of depictions of relationships. Actually, I already mentioned shrinking. I'm going to go ahead and do it again. Liz is the next door neighbor on shrinking, played by Krista Miller and her husband Derek, who's really am I'm blanking on now, but he was on married with children and he's great and I'm so sorry for blanking in your name 10 McGinley 10 McGinley thank you, oh God, it was going to kill me 10 McGinley.

Speaker 3 1:07:25

She says to him one time I love you so much, I'm so happy we're married and I could deal with you for an hour and 45 minutes a day, and they both get it. They both understand that she does love him and she does want to build a life with him, but also she needs him to get the fuck out of the house for a while because she needs some time. So these relationships where it's not Higgins, it's not the Higgins is necessarily. Maybe Jane isn't the one who was going to breathe life into Beard or whatever else, but she does kind of know what he needs and she is good for him in a lot of ways. And I don't want to get too ahead of myself because I have a lot more thoughts on this later. But yes, what you want, what you need and what this societal interpretation of what a perfect relationship is, those three things very rarely actually match up.

Speaker 2 1:08:21

I will say that for weirdos like the three of us and many of the people who would listen sometimes when you're an outsider and you're in a world of insiders meeting another outsider, even if it's self-destructive or codependent, or it can feel like a drug. It can feel like finally being seen for the first time and the relationship in and of itself is unhealthy. But I have a little burst of dopamine in me right now thinking about some real destructive relationships I had that were crazy fun and at the time felt like a drug, felt like a thrill ride. So I really I can understand that if that's what he's getting out of this. So anyway, if you're not going to join me, at least I hope you're having some fun.

Speaker 2 1:09:17

Jane says beard size and claps his hands asking the boys where to next. Jeremy says bed. He says all the pubs in England shut at 11.30. Beard says he's not ready for the night to end and he says yes, have any ideas? And Paul suggests bones and honey. Bones and honey is a place that stays open late but it's impossible to get in. It's private and very swanky. Jeremy heard they once turned away share. And then Paul, paul don't you dare.

Speaker 4 1:09:47

Oh, I was going to say if you were going to go past this moment, I was like I officially quit this goddamn podcast. I was not. This was no, no, no, go on, go on.

Speaker 2 1:09:58

No, no, no. This is where you come in as the voice of the podcast. That's funny. I didn't do such a thing.

Speaker 4 1:10:13

I fucking what Like? What is this guy's story so funny?

Speaker 2 1:10:22

I just love, love, like, like emoji hearts coming out of me for Paul, when, when I mean I'm like this is this. I thought I loved this guy as much as I could, right.

Speaker 4 1:10:34

Exactly, and I think that's all the things that go into that joke. He knows he knows this story about share and he's probably had this thought before, like the same way that we had a. You know, I'm glad you asked about the frigility of life. Paul has a take on share being turned away, like this guy who hangs out in pubs and yells about football has a take on this and is able to deliver it in this hilarious way, because he's not.

Speaker 2 1:11:07

He's not saying this is not a share lyric, no, he's singing. He's singing. Would you believe in what is it? Life after love?

Speaker 4 1:11:14

Love after love. Love after love, life after love Life after love Life after love.

Speaker 3 1:11:19

You. How are you guys?

Speaker 4 1:11:21

I've always, I, always, I've sung it wrong until this very moment. I always thought it was love after love.

Speaker 2 1:11:26

So there you go Okay, the point is he sings that Do you believe they did such a thing in that to the music of that song. And you go, oh my God, what? Who is this guy? Anyway, why don't they just head over? And why don't we just head over and see what happens? Jeremy says he thinks there's a dress code to which we get a smashing down of a cardboard box onto the bar and who should come through but may, and we get this beautiful shot. That's beauty shot, beautiful beauty shot of all the boys decked out looking swanky in their new secondhand threads, just jackets and scarves and a and a cap for beard fit. But you know it by the streets plays, beard calls, a taxi as they walk into camera and then boom, we're at the next location. That's beautiful. I mean, it's just. I was like what am I watching? At this point I was so into it, like this is just like, just take me away. It's like about being carried away. I'm like, yes, I am willingly, I will go wherever you take me.

Speaker 4 1:12:38

So let me. So I'm curious, why? Because I also like this episode right, but it does have, on the surface, some of the things going on that have bothered either or both of you in this second season. Like this, isn't, you know, as, as the storytelling goes, I could absolutely tell the story that's being told in the macro way without this episode. Now, would it be as good, would it be as rich? Okay, but like I. So why is it that we we appreciate love really got into this? Let's call it an aside, although that may be a little strong, whereas at other points it it bothered us.

Speaker 3 1:13:23

Okay. So, that, yes, I understand what you're saying and I think that we started to touch on this in an offline conversation when you asked just what is the difference between this episode and all of the rest of them. So I've been thinking about it and I'm so glad you asked. So the first thing is that I feel like there is one cohesive story happening in this episode and there was way too much jumping around in all of the other episodes for me, like this was beard.

Speaker 4 1:13:52

I got it.

Speaker 3 1:13:54

So that part awesome for me.

Speaker 2 1:13:57

Yeah, there's a very clear through line.

Speaker 3 1:13:59

There's a very clear through line. I have a lot of time to like, settle into it and feel comfortable with it. I think also that there's because of the rigidity of getting that story told. They could actually loosen up within the scenes and have a little bit more fun. Like what they needed to accomplish in this scene was getting beard from one bar to another. So what's the most fun way of doing that? What they didn't have to do was check in on what Roy and Keely were doing right now or what Rebecca was up to. So it's not just that they had a plot that I was more comfortable with and liked more, but then they got to do more in the scenes because of that plot.

Speaker 2 1:14:42

Okay, right, so we're getting to see a character we've only suspected sort of about, like since the moment on the plane when he was, when he agreed to meet Ted and his dreams. Like, just fully agreed to meet him with no qualms on the in the first scene of the show and the person who was reading up about the rules of soccer a lot of speed on the outside. We've only seen, you know, junior lumberjack baby, like we've only seen these glimmers of beard, and I started to feel at this point, like, especially when the guys just sort of swarmed him, these three characters in the bar who have been historically used for a certain very, very specific purpose but not valued as primary characters by any stretch of the imagination, they are suddenly cast front and center with this guy and they become like sort of a tandem with him and the choices he makes. I felt vindicated what I expected from him. So it didn't feel like, oh really, that doesn't seem like what they've been saying to the beard.

Speaker 2 1:15:56

I just kept going yep, yep, yep. Like I just kept making further and further sense, especially because of, like, how different he is in Ted. If nothing else, man, this episode made me completely understand why beard and Ted are best friends. Because I was like, oh, if you experience this, if this is like your, how you experience the world, like the normalcy of showing up to a room where you know, with coffee and little sort of, just how Ted normalizes things and makes things predictable and kind and sweet, and I'm like, oh my God, that must be like the greatest thing in the world for beard. You know what I mean? He duttered.

Speaker 4 1:16:45

Heathered.

Speaker 2 1:16:48

I think so you know, what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 1:16:51

It's OK to care about winning on the one side. It's also OK to limit this excursion to we have a meeting in the morning, Like you can do your thing, but let's not get too carried away in both directions.

Speaker 3 1:17:08

Yeah, I think that they keep each other tethered. I think that they see something in each other that they can't quite get to, but they appreciate other people having.

Speaker 4 1:17:22

Yes, and for me, with one of the things in this episode and I don't want to spoil as we go, I'm guessing most people listening will have watched, but as we're having this conversation, is the literal embracing of the darkness. I don't think it's a coincidence that the name of the episode is Beard After Hours. I kept calling it Beard After Dark, which was my own brain kind of like dealing with that. I did the same thing.

Speaker 2 1:17:50

Yeah.

Speaker 4 1:17:51

That's the episode where the whole thing with the lady in red goes differently. But moving on, moving on, grow up, coach Castleton. No, but seriously, there's a part of Beard that embraces his darkness and figures out. How am I going to navigate the world with this in me, as I've been formed by a QAnon, vulnerable mother and all this kind of stuff, and I think Ted's response to his darkness is more light. We're going to flood the world with light. We're going to flood my inside world with light. We're going to flood my outside world with light, all the light. It's an interesting thing to watch where they're fighting that battle.

Speaker 2 1:18:39

Yeah, no, it's good, it's really good. We now have the guys. We enter a swanky lobby and Beard it's not just Beard, it's not the guys he approaches the sort of what would you the concierge, the front desk person?

Speaker 4 1:18:59

Host.

Speaker 2 1:19:00

Yeah, hostess, host, yeah, and this is the person who we will find out. His name's Sarah Combs, played by Kerry Howard. I thought it was really interesting that this is the second sort of gatekeeping white woman that we've seen. Like I was thinking of the Greek restaurant, oh, interesting, yeah, yeah, yeah, where she was just kind of shutting down Nate. Anyway, beard pretends to know this person. She says she doesn't think so. She needs to see his membership card. He ignores that. It says University of Barcelona, class of 2004. She said I went to Warwick 2007. And he says oh sorry, you looked older.

Speaker 4 1:19:47

I thought that was genius, because he's obviously up to something and he's so. His emotional intelligence is so far off the chart that he and Ted have in common. And his emotional intelligence is so off the charts that he's like how do I get this woman off balance, off her square, so that we can run? He's like I'm going to say she look old. I don't know her, but I'm going to go ahead and guess that if I tell her she look older than she is, that'll give me a little second to work on that.

Speaker 2 1:20:21

That's going to chip away at her professionalism.

Speaker 4 1:20:23

Absolutely. I thought that was like. I thought I really appreciated that moment.

Speaker 2 1:20:28

So she asked Beard, if he's a member here, and he goes here, no god, no, never. And I was like that is so what is he up to?

Speaker 4 1:20:36

Yeah, you see more like fucking with you, like you know. But yeah, sorry to head.

Speaker 3 1:20:41

Well, I kind of got a grab show marks.

Speaker 2 1:20:45

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. You're so much smarter than me. One of my favorites. One of my favorites yeah, that's great. That's a great line. You're right, I'd never be a member of any club. That would have me. So she says if you aren't a member, you can't come in, as this is Bones and Honey. And he tells her she's very rude and he asked her name Sarah Coombs. What is your name? And he says none of my business.

Speaker 3 1:21:16

Although he does say it, none of my business, which is a great delivery.

Speaker 2 1:21:23

It's just great and he looks great in this weird like thrown together apparel.

Speaker 4 1:21:28

Well, I thought, because it was a lost and found, I thought the entire group look, but certainly his look, had a real thrift shop kind of feel and I would think like this wouldn't be the first time that Beard might have thrown some thrift shit on. Oh for sure, you know what I mean. So I thought that worked for him.

Beard's Pep Talk and Woman in Red

Speaker 2 1:21:51

So Beard runs outside Sarah Coombs. He runs outside as Sarah Coombs answers her phone, it's Baz on the phone saying it's the fire brigade and her flat is on fire. Once Beard rushes out and he turns the corner and says Sarah Coombs. And she says he says yeah, sarah Coombs, your flat is on fire. And Beard says to act cool. And they act. They do not act cool. I don't know what the hell happened. Act all, act all. So funny. I loved that Beard sucked up against the wall and Paul was sort of leaning on him in a pose. Anyway, yeah, I don't know, so weird. Then she goes and Beard says we're walking, we're walking. They get to the elevator and Jeremy says you did it, you did what Cher couldn't do, ok. Then Paul says he feels bad for Sarah Coombs, you know, thinking that she's going to go there. And Baz says nah, because think how excited she'll be when she sees her flat hasn't burned down. And Beard says what boss.

Speaker 3 1:23:03

Tomorrow will be the most exciting day of Sarah Coombs' life. Her apartment will look more amazing to her than any place any of us have ever lived. Sorry, I got caught up on that. It's from Fight Club. It's after Tyler Darden says he's going to kill Raymond K Hassell that tomorrow breakfast is going to be the most delicious meal he's ever had.

Speaker 2 1:23:25

Yep which.

Speaker 3 1:23:28

I would like to throw away, and because I keep calling out the times when therapy isn't exactly portrayed correctly. That's not true. Like I think in both of their cases there might be a little bit of leftover trauma that they're going to have to resolve having a gun pulled on them, and also, maybe not as much, believing that your house is on fire. But like we shouldn't pretend that the answer is always oh, you had a tragic event happen to you All, but you're real happy now. Like that's not how that works.

Speaker 4 1:24:00

Good point. I kind of went along with what Beard was saying. But I'm like, yeah, actually I could still see being like who the hell called me? And said that Now that you have slowed me down, I'm like, yeah, this might not be quite as hunky dory as we're saying, but yeah, I thought it was the. I thought that they figured out a way to pull this off together, that he was clever, this specific kind of way. It also says to me like how many places has Beard snuck into?

Speaker 4 1:24:34

that he had this specific like this is a very specific plan. I don't know what my plan would have been, but it wouldn't have been this. So like how many places has this guy snuck into that? He's like, let me dial up plan J.

Speaker 2 1:24:48

What the hell, I know which one's going to work in this place, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:24:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:24:51

You know what I mean? Yep. So he says, here we go, they enter the club and then he goes to set up a game plan. He just strolls right in but the boys get stuck and they are just like really rigid and really nervous. I was like this is amazing, like physical acting right here, because they looked stuck, they looked uncomfortable and Paul Solomley says I don't think we belong here and Beard goes what coach. I loved this moment.

Speaker 4 1:25:22

Knock that shit off. You belong. If you could be anywhere you want, if you could be anywhere, where would you want to be here? Right Then act like it. And I you know I love this pep talk. I thought it was a great pep talk. I also thought it was a pep talk that probably reflects a good part of Beard's life experience. Like somehow the way he said it, he was like I know how you feel and we're not doing that shit tonight.

Speaker 2 1:25:56

It didn't feel to me like, yeah, he identified it.

Speaker 4 1:25:58

Oh yeah, like it wasn't like wait, where do you mean? You don't belong Right?

Speaker 2 1:26:01

Like it was like oh no, what's that about?

Speaker 4 1:26:03

Yeah, no, he got it 1,000% and I hate when people do that, but I did it on purpose, but no, but he got it 100% and but seriously, he just, you know he was like nah, we're not going to do that. And I guess I really felt it because I've definitely been in rooms where I felt like what the fuck am I doing here? And that's a whole bunch of other stuff. But I think that feeling is so real and if you felt it, it can be, yet should say, absolutely paralyzing. Like they all know, Everyone knows I don't belong here. It is going to be as obvious as the day is long.

Speaker 2 1:26:45

One of my favorite things ever, ever, ever, ever, and so one of my favorite things is that I love when a show captures poverty with some authenticity. Nobody does it better than Shameless. Obviously. That's the grand poobah of capturing poverty properly on television. Right, boss, correct, ok, it's a gold standard. There's a show called Wayne on Prime Video which is a masterpiece, also captures it perfectly. This moment shows just don't know how to do it, because typically, if you're a writer that gets your show on the air, you generally are making a decent salary, and so you may have forgotten what it's like to actually suffer or never knew.

Speaker 2 1:27:34

Yeah, or you never knew. And so Beard says, no, who wants an overpriced beer? And none of them raise their hands. He says, who wants an overpriced beer that I'm paying for? And then they're like oh yeah, whatever. And later on, the moment I'm speaking of definitely is when they place a bet and they have to all pony up to get 11 bucks right. And I'm like, oh yes, that's like. It's not like they don't want an overpriced beer, they're like I literally cannot afford it.

Speaker 4 1:28:04

There's no way. Yeah, no, it's not like I'm making budget choices here.

Speaker 2 1:28:08

Right, right, right I actually had that set aside for a Tesla. So no, right, right, right.

Speaker 3 1:28:16

Well, I will jump in. What I liked about Beard's speech the knock that off. Where do you want to be? That felt like a very class, conscious version of the act. Like you've been here before speech Ooh it just.

Speaker 4 1:28:31

I like that.

Speaker 3 1:28:32

Like fake it till you make it.

Speaker 2 1:28:35

Or just.

Speaker 3 1:28:37

You have been in the end zone before. You do not need to celebrate.

Speaker 2 1:28:41

That's a great. Yeah, I love it. I like you've been there before. We say that all the time, coach, don't we?

Speaker 4 1:28:47

Yeah, no, I really don't say that much, but I get it. I get why. Yes, and it's a real thing, and sometimes kids do need to hear it.

Speaker 2 1:28:57

Beard tells them to find a spot and feel free to strut, which I thought. Oh God, this is such a nice callback to the Nate strutting thing. It's funny I don't have. I mean, strutting does not exist in my world. It's just not a. I'm like this is twice on the show and to that right, like I mean, I don't know Bone, do you? I bossed you, you ever, you ever like go, now's a good time to strut. I think I want to strut Like I just don't, I don't, I don't, just don't ever part of my thing and I really like it. Well, that's good. I have one specific.

Speaker 2 1:29:31

I know you do Coach. Yes, right, but what?

Speaker 4 1:29:35

But when I was graduating from film school so gave my masters there was an award as a marketing award and it was sort of like the award for our program. And I didn't know until my name was announced and then they said and he's also the winner. And so they said that I won the award and I strutted across the rest of the stage and decked out to the audience Like that is a moment where I consciously was like elf. Yes, you motherfuckers recognize, and that was that.

Speaker 2 1:30:04

That was it. I love it, I love it. That is ugh.

Speaker 3 1:30:08

it suits you but yeah, I don't have a strut necessarily, but if I have the correct combination of a certain number of drinks and a very specifically high heeled shoe, a specific height, I should say no more than like an inch and a half. My sister does say I have what she refers to as a model walk. I don't mean to do it on purpose. Most of the time.

Speaker 3 1:30:34

But there's something that happens. I think it's my attempt to not fall and it comes off as what she thinks I believe a model would walk like. It's not great, but I do it.

Speaker 2 1:30:48

I love it. This is fascinating. I wish I had nothing. The closest I get is maybe opening my arms wide if I sink a three-pointer or something. I don't like it Because it's not likely that I will. So, yeah, it's more of a surprise to me than anyone. So, ok, they do this cool, goofy strut.

Speaker 2 1:31:10

As they walk off, beard approaches the bar and as he's at the bar he notices a beautiful woman in a red dress with red fingernails. In the credits she is credited as you won't believe this red played by Charlotte Spencer. Later in the episode we find out someone refers to her as Mary, but at this point it's just a woman in a red dress, which again to me was a very clear matrix reference. It could be the woman in the red dress in the matrix simulation, or it could be she is the personification of the red pill, but she makes eye contact with Beard and smiles. Beard tips his cap and the bartender asked Beard what he wants and he says four beers and he asked if he wants them in a glass and I thought Coach would appreciate this. Actually, you both probably would appreciate this. With your various blue collar roots, beard is like no.

Speaker 4 1:32:15

That was again. Yes, with the class stuff that we're bringing up, I thought that there's so much around Like what kind of drink and in what kind of glass? And there's a lot of socioeopolitical or socioeconomic, I should say stuff that goes in to that moment.

Speaker 3 1:32:35

So I thought that was a very clever way to say, yeah, we snuck into your stupid club, but we haven't become rich assholes yet, like that's what I heard there, right, I believe that he would not need a glass necessarily, but also because I know too much about Brendan Hunt himself and again this is where I apologize for being a weird creepy stalker.

Speaker 3 1:33:01

He and I have actually been to the same bar on the far north side of Chicago because he grew up here, so I know for a fact that he would be perfectly comfortable if they gave him a Libby glass. That's one of those where it's like wider on the top and narrows in the middle and then it flares out the bottom and it's only like yeah, it's like eight or 10 ounces. It's very small and they just fill it up and you sip on it while you're sitting at the dive bar. I know he would be fine with that glass, but they're going to try to give him some fancy tulip bullshit that he's not going to care about. So he would take a glass. He will not take their glass.

Speaker 2 1:33:38

So, beard, he orders the beers. Bartender sort of makes a face I don't know if the bartender was judging him or not but just saying OK, whatever goes to get the beers. And when beer turns back, poof, the woman in red is gone. He looks around confused, scans the room and she is nowhere to be seen. I don't know if that's the best place to stop or not, but I think we're going to hang up the skates here today, coach for Beard, after hours, part one. We're going to blast out the rest of this several years from now in a star system far, far away, because now we're up against the beginning of season three. We have, we have a man. We've messed around for far too long, boss, I coach, I don't know about you, but I blame boss.

Speaker 4 1:34:38

Oh yeah, it's absolutely the fault of the person who isn't neurodivergent. That's that generally speaking. When, when shit goes off the rails temporarily, that's the rule the neurodivergence probably were right, that is that.

Speaker 2 1:34:52

No, no, you got it right. Wait, you and I are both time blind, and boss is is focused and principled and intelligent, so therefore it's hard for you. Yeah, screw you, boss.

Speaker 3 1:35:03

It was like everyone's. I'd like everyone to know. A thing that is going to be cut from this recording is that Castle Chin just said OK, let's do a quick sign off and we're out. And then he said all of these things true.

Speaker 4 1:35:16

Just so everybody's, if you ever wonder how many episodes, why we hit so many episodes. There might be some of that, that's true. Nobody. Now I'm just turning my back. I want everybody's side. That's like that Richard Pryor joke. He was like I'm on their side. Whichever side was winning, which gang was you in? Whichever gang was winning, I'm on their side. It's been great. Anyway, sorry. Moving on, a quick sign off. Three days later.

Speaker 2 1:35:41

Yeah, that's, it's, that's very John Wings night. Wait a minute, ok, coach. Where do people find if they want to find?

Speaker 4 1:35:52

We align is the online community that's we align dot, align, p dot com and we're just getting folks together to have the conversation, make ourselves better, live better lives and come check us out. Love it, boss.

Speaker 3 1:36:08

You can find me on Twitter at dummy underscore chambers, and also writing at the antagonist, which is antagonist blog dot com.

Speaker 2 1:36:19

OK, great, Thank you everybody. Please support your local libraries and the written word and until next time, we are probably Richmond, richmond to die Die beautiful, beautiful. All right, we'll see you next time with Beard after hours part.