Taking Back Teaching: Confronting Ageism and Celebrating Experience with Tim Part 1

Ageism in education is a topic that doesn't just deserve attention; it demands it. Enter Tim, a veteran educator whose career began at the tender age of 10 and has since flourished to include founding schools in China and tackling international education challenges.  Tim’s story is not just about a career; it’s about resilience, expertise, and the often-overlooked value experienced educators bring to any institution. Our conversation takes a serious look at burnout and the overwhelming responsibilities of administrative roles, emphasizing the need for change in how experience is valued within the educational landscape.

The episode closes with perspectives that reach beyond borders, tackling misconceptions about the U.S. education system and the underestimated skill sets of educators. We discuss international comparisons, often skewed by selective testing practices, and highlight the paradox of public criticism versus high global regard for American schooling. Through it all, we advocate for recognizing educators' invaluable contributions and skills, urging for a cultural shift that honors their dedication and ability to drive meaningful change. Join us as we confront these critical issues and reflect on the potential for a more inclusive and respectful educational future.

Chapters

• 0:09 Navigating Ageism in Education Careers
• 6:06 Transitioning Out of Education
• 12:46 Resilience and Hope in Education
• 20:30 Misconceptions About Education System Negativity
• 32:13 Global Perspectives on Education Systems
• 43:26 Podcast Disclaimer Notice

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Remember our mandate Public education is here for a free public education to the masses that provides to the masses, that provides basic academic skills, living a healthy lifestyle and preparing our kids to be positive citizens in our community, in our state, in our country and globally. So I mean you know, I mean to me. We have forgotten what that really means hey everybody.

Speaker 2: 1:10

So a couple of months ago I was perusing my LinkedIn and I came across a comment. The comment was on a post giving advice on how to get a job, and this comment pointed out that there were candidates that had plenty to offer, but ageism makes continuing to be viable in the workforce challenging. This really resonated with me. I'm very aware of my own age lately for a variety of reasons and sadly, I have in the last year lost some really amazing people who are in my age bracket. One of those people was my cooperating teacher from when I was beginning my education career, and she was a bit older than me, but certainly too young to be passing. She retired after my first year of teaching and then went on to work as an academic coach for I don't know, probably around three years, and then she felt she was ready to spend more time with her family and to be done, no subbing, just done. She was amazing and we all were pretty sad that she was taking her wisdom and expertise from us that were still in the school system. But what about the people like? The commentator, by the way, was also an educator that I saw on LinkedIn. There are many skilled, vibrant, experienced educators that are ready to leave the brick and mortar realm of education, but this doesn't mean that they're done. They are ready to transition and take their expertise in new directions. Today's guest is here to share his story of how he is attempting to navigate this battleground and raise awareness on how ageism is keeping very skilled and talented educators out of the workforce. And you can look at most organizations and see this is what they need right now. They need skilled and talented people.

Speaker 2: 3:12

Please welcome Tim, also known as the LinkedIn commentator, and here's what I found out about Tim after reading his comment. Tim has been teaching since he was 10. That's right, you heard it. His mom had a daycare center in their home and he was her best helper every day after school. Later, at the age of 15, he would take all those foundational teaching skills and become a swimming teacher. When it was time to go to university, he knew he had to pursue an education degree. He has an education specialist degree and is a Gerstacker fellow. Did I pronounce that right, Tim Gerstacker?

Speaker 1: 3:53

You did yeah, gerstacker, yes.

Speaker 2: 3:55

Tim also started two schools in China. He has been a teacher, a coach, a principal and a director throughout his career and, honestly, I am sure I have missed a few things. What the heck, tim, I'm ready to hire you. Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 1: 4:15

Well, thank you so much, and that's quite an introduction. Yeah, I've had kind of a long career, starting at age of 10, but I've enjoyed it and I'm excited to be here and talking with you. So thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

Speaker 2: 4:34

It is my pleasure, exactly how long were you in education.

Speaker 1: 4:40

You know, like I said, you know, I really consider my time with the kids right Like when I was 10 and, needless to say, I'm 59 now, so those are a few years.

Speaker 2: 4:54

Yeah, that's it. It's more than the majority of your life, right? So, exactly, absolutely yes.

Speaker 1: 4:59

Exactly, absolutely yes.

Speaker 2: 5:02

So, as you know, this podcast is about burnout, and I like to hear burnout stories because there are so many of us that can relate to them.

Speaker 1: 5:18

Can you share some bits of your burnout story with us? Yeah, you know, my burnout story is something that many of us in education can relate to, right, whether you're teaching in elementary school or working in higher ed, or the other thing that I think many people miss are the administrators. You know, if you're an administrator, wow, I really felt like I was in the middle, right. I was trying to balance all the deeds of my students first and foremost, and I think that's really important. But then you have your staff, then you have all the families in your building, but then you have the superintendent, you have central office and the school boards. So you know, it's really a challenging position For me.

Speaker 1: 6:06

I then went school in four months, from renovation time to kids in seats. We had four months to get the school ready, so I had to hire all of the staff. I was the second hire, my PA, my personal assistant we always like to say that she was the boss, uh, but she was the first hire, uh, by the company. And then she turned around and, uh, with the company, hired me. So I was the second hire and she never let me forget that. So, um, but you know, you just wear so many hats and and you know part of those hats that people don't realize what they are, especially in the international school community, is marketing. So I've got, you know, extensive marketing experience with that. But also my wife and her sisters and my oldest daughter are in marketing. My youngest daughter is in social media, are in marketing. My youngest daughter is in social media. So you know I'm in that hub, I'm understanding, you know what's important in that realm and then you have admissions and communications, how important communication is. What are you communicating? And all those kinds of things. And even you know human resources. So you know when you're building something from scratch and renovating multiple buildings and trying to be a salesman, that's part of it, because I have to go out and give speeches to all the parents and I'm trying to do the marketing side of it. So I'm getting involved in the British Chamber of Commerce, the American Chamber of Commerce, I'm doing speaking engagements at a variety of events and of course, I'm doing this in a country that is not my own and in a country where I don't speak the language.

Speaker 1: 8:25

And it was just crazy. I was working around the clock. I literally would have 3 am, 4 am calls with teachers trying to hire teachers, because they were here in the States, and so you know the best time to call them is three or four o'clock in the afternoon, so it's three or four o'clock in China, and so you know you do what you what needs to be done. I have never in my life worked so hard and I've never worked so long, and I got to tell you it was the most rewarding experience I ever had. So then I come back to the US, right, and so I'm all fired up.

Speaker 1: 9:12

I'm all excited that I returned to the US. I have this now, wealth of experience. I have been working with government agencies of policy. I have been, you know, being a salesman. I have all of these kinds of skills now that your maybe normal public school administrator may have some, or maybe not to the extent that I had. So I was really excited to get back here to the US and get back into the educational system.

Speaker 1: 9:46

And my wife sat me down and asked is this really what you want to do? And I said, well, I think so, and I started looking into it. And the superintendents in public school systems their life expectancy in that position now is less than two years because there's such turnover and changes that are happening in school boards and with parents and some of the societal issues that are happening School safety, school shootings, school safety, school shootings. You know, I have to say I really didn't even give that a thought when I was overseas and just because I was teaching in China. You know you're in Portugal and you know you travel everywhere near you, right, and I traveled all over the place. I joked, I've actually been to more countries than I have states. So you know my kids as well. I have three kids and you know they all speak multiple languages and it's just kind of crazy. I struggle with English, but you know it is just fascinating to realize that we're one of the few places on Earth that our kids can be shot with a weapon in their school by another student that they know. That just amazes me. So with that I was like maybe I'm maybe I should rethink this.

Speaker 1: 11:33

So you know, I really did start thinking about transitioning out of education.

Speaker 1: 11:41

I did have a couple interviews which I found really intriguing.

Speaker 1: 11:46

We talked about ageism and I think you know I was a finalist in a couple of them and they both I learned later as I do research both learned.

Speaker 1: 12:01

I learned later that both of those positions have been filled by a first-time new principal or new person in the role, and I have to say I don't know how old they are. They look much younger than me, and so I, you know, I found that really curious, that I have this wealth of experience and all those kinds of things, and during the interview, people were always really intrigued about this, that and the other thing, and I think it came down to, you know, ageism, and are we going to be able to pay him versus somebody younger who's a little bit cheaper? So, with all of that said, though, I want to make it clear that I, despite all the challenges that the American education system has and the polarization that's happening in our country right now, I still believe that the US has one of the greatest educational systems in the world. We strive to equip every student with essential skills for success, and, I have to say, for success and I had to say that is not something that happens all over the world.

Speaker 2: 13:34

And I think we are exceptional in doing that. You're absolutely right. I feel like that idea itself is very true. I mean the expectations and the rigor for educators, and so that's all of us, whether it's your paraeducators, your teachers, your administrators, your superintendents those expectations are extremely high, the education that we have to get. Even our paraeducators are now being required to take college courses, continue education courses or to pass equivalent tests in order to have those positions.

Speaker 2: 14:08

We have some rigorous standards that the rest of the world does not have. I think that the issues that we are having well, I have said for years that every classroom is a microcosm of the society that it's in and, as a result, the issues that we are having in education, they're societal.

Speaker 1: 14:31

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 14:32

And the system is reflecting that. So some of the choices we're making systemically, I think, are taking us down some paths that we should not be going, because they're taking us down paths that create responsibilities for educators that are not educator responsibilities, they are other members of society's responsibility. So, anyway, that's my two cents, but I agree.

Speaker 1: 14:58

I agree with what you're saying there my two cents, but I agree, I agree with what you're saying there. So you know, it's really fascinating because you know, in making this decision to kind of step away and move into the more business sector, you know, I have to say that my passion for making positive impact has not diminished, even though I'm 59, and I will clearly, you know I'm not shy about being 59. I am able to and I am willing to, work super hard and you know some of it is generational right, and so you know, when I'm looking to you know, pivot into the corporate space. These are the kinds of things that I think are important. But you're so, so right when you're talking about societal issues And's driving some of these changes and where we currently are, and I have to say, there's hope.

Speaker 2: 16:11

I'm glad to hear that. You know I have. I think that's one of the things that's happened for me doing this podcast is that I'm getting a little hopeful. So this is a system that I don't necessarily, and I'm 54, so I'm not planning on leaving Portugal. I mean I'm getting a little late in life to be making too many more drastic worldwide moves. But I don't plan on being in the US education system as an educator again.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Having said that it makes me want to continue to be an advocate. Some of the things that I'm hearing on the podcast, both ways right Some things so nice that are happening, but also some positive. I mean we have some go-getters out there that are saying this is worth saving and we're going to. And I say that you know, we're going to take back teaching. This is our realm. It was never anybody else's realm. It is the educator's realm and we know what we're doing. But we've we've had some things taken away from us and I see people kind of gathering the troops and saying we're taking some of this back and it's working. So I'm hopeful too. I'm hopeful too, tim.

Speaker 1: 17:32

I'm glad to hear you say that, because you know it's difficult, it is a deeply personal and it's deeply troubling decision to make, but I really felt that I was not having, and I would not have, as great an impact as I once did, and I've been facing some of the same hurdles and obstacles for 20 years, and so I'm really excited to hear you say that, oh, some people are gathering the troops because, god, it would not take much to get me back in right. You know, even though I've decided that I'm kind of stepping out, but if I see things were turning around, I definitely could get back in the fight.

Speaker 2: 18:33

That's good to know, because I think that it does take some skilled people getting back in there too some skilled people getting back in there too. So it seems like maybe you weren't really driven out of education, from burnout. It actually sounds like you had your love and passion rekindled in starting those schools, but it was kind of that idea of an education for those that don't know. We oftentimes have a really wonky pay system. It is not a merit-based pay system.

Speaker 2: 19:08

It is years of cumulative experience combined with educational experience in most districts as a matter of fact, I've never heard of one that doesn't use some formula of that Right, which makes those of us that are of a certain age, tim, we are very expensive.

Speaker 1: 19:30

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 19:33

We're worth it. I mean, we are not just bringing our knowledge to the table, we are bringing those years of expertise, but districts are not wanting to pay for it, and it sounds to me I just want to reiterate what I think. I heard you say that that was really the thing that drove you away was the lack of respect that goes along with that thinking, as well as the knowing that you're going to have to fight twice as hard for a position that you're probably overqualified for, was seems like maybe that burnt you out.

Speaker 1: 20:13

Yeah, absolutely. That is very, very concise and right to the point. You said it much better than I did, thank you.

Speaker 2: 20:22

Well, I just wanted to make sure that I'm not putting words in your mouth.

Speaker 1: 20:25

No, not at all. I thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 20:30

So do you feel that there is a connection between the lack of respect for the education system as a whole and how challenging education entrepreneurs are finding it to break into new areas? I mean educators tend to have a really well-rounded set of skills that are very needed, arguably, I'm just thinking, if I had experience and expertise in many other areas, I think I personally would be more marketable. What do you think about that?

Speaker 1: 21:07

Yeah, you know, I've been actually thinking about this a lot and because I have a different perspective right from being overseas and traveling to as many schools as I have and my son was a Davis scholar. He went to boarding school and high school in Bosnia-Herzegovina and my daughter my oldest daughter was two years in Rome and my youngest daughter graduated from Beijing City International School, and they all speak multiple languages, right, and so I have a little different perspective maybe than some people do. But I absolutely think that you were right there with that connection and I think it stems from broader societal issue which, if you will allow me, I will kind of get on my soapbox here, because this is something that I have been really passionate about for years and I think it really speaks to the heart of where we are with educator respect. In other countries you just simply don't see this, and I think you know educators are those people that have these well-rounded set of skills that you know. They're managing groups of kids all day long, they adapt on the fly, right, and they're communicating these complex ideas in very simple language. They solve problems creatively. These are all things that industry would love, but I think this stemmed from a group of people years ago that misinterpreted some international rankings.

Speaker 1: 22:57

On the TIMSS and the PISA report. Are you familiar with the TIMSS and the PISA reports.

Speaker 1: 23:04

Okay, I thought you would be.

Speaker 2: 23:06

You go ahead for our listeners and break those down a little bit, because not everyone may be.

Speaker 1: 23:11

I was just going to do that. The TIMSS is the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study right. And the PISA is Program for International Student Assessment, right, and the PISA is Program for International Student Assessment. And so basically they they give kids tests, like you know, in fourth and eighth grade and or at age 15 and and things like that, and then they rank all of the countries based on those scores that the kids get. Sounds very logical, but years ago some people saw this and were shocked. They couldn't believe that the United States was not number one one. How could this happen? And that started it right. That started the idea that, oh, what's wrong with our public school system? What are we doing?

Speaker 2: 24:17

Well, and if I may, Tim, I think it was a combination of that and how much per capita we spend per student in the US compared with other countries. So I think those two things combined. I'm right there with you, though. Keep going, preach it.

Speaker 1: 24:26

Yeah. So you know, when they started looking at these results, you know they were showing, you know, some countries, especially our competitors, right, like Russia and China and things like that and they really failed to consider how the data was collected. Right? The US is one of the few countries and I tried to research this and it's very fuzzy who does and who doesn't but it wouldn't be fair to say that the US is the only country I think it's one of the few countries that requires all of our students, including special ed students, to participate in these assessments. So what that means is China. People may not realize this, but China they have so many. The number game for China is this 1%, their top 1% of their students, the kids that score, you know, at the extreme level, the top 1% of their students, the kids that score at the extreme level, the top 1% of their students, outnumber all of the students that we have in our educational system today.

Speaker 2: 25:49

Wow.

Speaker 1: 25:51

Yeah, yeah, and I will tell you this China, like many, many things that happen in China, and God knows, I love the country for a lot of reasons, but you know it has its flaws, like any other country, like we do too, and with China in particular, they do many things for surface value. So when things come out like the TIMS or the PISA report, you can bet your bottom dollar that they are going to score number one and they are going to be above the US for sure. And I can tell you exactly how that happens. The PISA and the TIMS are only given to selected students, and those are the very best and brightest students. So we're not comparing apples to apples here. And you know, when I tell people this, they're like, oh, and I'm like, yeah, we're educating all of our kids. You know there's many countries in the world that don't educate all their kids. If you're a special needs child, you may never go to school, or you may go to school at a very low level, or they may put you in what they call vocation schools, which do not have nearly the resources that the quote unquote regular school would have, and you know so there are many countries that do that, and so you know it's. When you're looking at these TIMS and PISA reports, you know you have to look at the information in more of a collective kind of thing as well, and so I think that, with this interpretation of, we're not doing well.

Speaker 1: 27:49

That started the negativity, and you're going to hear me say a lot about negativity. It started the negativity and that the education system in the US is on the downside, and I think that that was in an effort for some people to use this to push changes in the curriculum, and I think they wanted to really gain control over the curriculum for what their children were being taught and they were wrapping themselves in this. You know, how can we be this low in the international rankings? We spend all of this money on our kids and we're getting nothing for it. There's professional athletes that can't read at a third grade level and all these kinds of things. Right, and my pushback to that is remember our mandate Public education is here for a free public education to the masses that provides basic academic skills, living a healthy lifestyle and preparing our kids to be positive citizens in our community, in our state, in our country and globally. So I mean, you know, I mean to me. We have forgotten what that really means, and you know there was this the vilification of educators, right? So now you know educators were being blamed and, by the way, I want to take two seconds to give you kudos for saying educators.

Speaker 1: 30:06

Many times people talk about education community and the only word out of their mouth are teachers. Talk about education community and the only word out of their mouth are teachers. But you know, there's so much beyond the teacher, right, there is the teacher in the classroom, there are the administrators, there are the support staff that you know. You ask any teacher and they will, you know, sing the praises of much of their support staff, so many things they couldn't do without their support staff. So I really commend you for using the term educators, because I think that's really key is, all of these people are educators and they've been vilified. They were called lazy, they're unappreciative of, you know, only working in the summers. People have called them glorified babysitters and it reached a point, I think, where it has become a societal norm Educator bashing yeah, and so in a societal norm, when you translate that to the corporate world.

Speaker 1: 31:14

Now the corporate world has these views of educators who are trying to transition into their space. You know, would I want to hire someone who's lazy, who you know just wants all their summers off and you know it's just a glorified babysitter, and then they get paid way too much for not working as many hours. You know all of that and I think, again, the negativity has outweighed what is really happening in the school system. And so again, and I want to say this, despite all this negativity, I still firmly believe that the US is one of the best educational systems in the world. We educate all of our kids.

Speaker 2: 32:13

As you were going through talking about those rankings, the quote and I don't know who said the quote, but there is a quote that comparison is the thief of joy, and I think that that sounds like a lot of. What we have going on here is that when we compare ourselves to other countries, it's very hard for us to see our progress, and this is certainly not something that we teach in the classroom in any capacity. Right? There's nobody else saying, well, compare yourself to everybody else in here and I'll feel bad about it because you're not Right, Except for you. You are number one, so you get to feel good, but everybody else has to feel bad.

Speaker 1: 32:50

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 32:50

Cultural component that you mentioned, I think, is just off the charts. Important if we're going to have these scores Because, for example, in the country I live, in Portugal, we have a lot of respect for educators. In fact, we have a lot of respect because they are given a lot of autonomy to do what they want to do within the classroom. As far as parents supporting that they all they're a collectivist society they recognize that an education is important to their children. Having said that, they do not get a lot of respect in the pay category. They get moved all over the country. They get transferred every so often. It doesn't matter where they live, where their spouse is working at I mean.

Speaker 2: 33:47

There are other things that are not respected, sure, but those reflect Portugal's unique cultural norms. Their schools are also set up with that funnel system that you talked about. Okay, you smart ones that are good at math, you get to go to this school for high school. You athletic ones, you get to go to this school for high school. You guys that don't know what you're doing and haven't figured it out yet, you should have by 14. Sorry about that, you got to go over here now and again. That reflects the culture. It doesn't mean that we need to take our US norms and say, oh, this will work better here.

Speaker 1: 34:28

Right, oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 34:30

I mean we wouldn't compare our system to the Portuguese system or the Chinese system. We believe in equity. We believe that every student does deserve the opportunities to be in the same classroom and learning the same content. That's the other thing you said. That really struck me as we are looking at what a right to a free education is. It is a right and it is an opportunity, and if someone or a family chooses not to take that opportunity and do with it what they can, there is no educator on the face of this planet that can change that. There is no educator on the face of this planet that can change that.

Speaker 2: 35:13

So, as we are a lot of times in privileged countries like now, I'm on my soapbox. In a lot of countries where there is as much privilege and there's only one, the United States, but some get close to it the value of what you're getting doesn't seem to be that large, and it's because we have so much privilege.

Speaker 1: 35:41

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, think about it. We're teaching our kids in the public school system. We talk about our basic skill set. Right, our basic skill set, our standard, our bar for that is above most countries around the world for what we're teaching. We're teaching problem solving, we're teaching higher order thinking skills, and that is really why it amazes me when people want to bash the US education that do they not realize that people from all over the world are begging and pleading and trying so hard to find ways to come to the US for education purposes?

Speaker 1: 36:32

And there's now a trend in the Far East and I think it's been happening for several years now. You know, in many universities you had students from. You know the Far East, you know Southeast Asia as well, but you know Southeast Asia as well, but India is in a big way coming for university and you would have a few kids who might come for high school, depending on what the circumstances were. There's a new trend now where wealthy parents in Southeast Asia are looking to bring their kids to elementary schools, boarding elementary schools in the US so that they can have the education that they're not getting in their home country. And I can speak to this because I've counseled several parents and I actually worked with several schools on the East coast that are boarding schools and and did some preliminary interviews and those kinds of things. So I you know this is something that's starting in elementary school.

Speaker 1: 37:52

So I find it hard. You know this is something that's starting in elementary school, so I find it hard, you know, when people really want to say how horrible this education system is and yet there's so much, there's so many people around the world that want to come here, it's just like. You know. It's the comical thing that you hear people bash all the teachers and how horrible school is. But what do you hear at the end of the summer? Oh, my God, I can't wait for these kids to go back to school. I don't know how the teachers do it. They have 30 kids in classes. I don't know how they do it because my kids were driving up the wall.

Speaker 2: 38:27

Yeah, I said it myself.

Speaker 1: 38:30

So absolutely. But you know, here's a glimmer of hope. I'm big on hope, right. So in all my networking conversations that I have with people and interviews that I've had with CEOs and business leaders, I find it ironic that those that have hired educators absolutely rave about them. They talk about their work ethic, they talk about their professionalism, talent and they talk about their adaptability and organizational skills. So maybe that word is going to start spreading and they're going to start, you know, recognizing the fact that educators are really talented people in no matter what they do. But I wanted to share that and I wanted to, you know, give you a little glimmer of hope, because I think that, you know, when we do a better job of recognizing and valuing the incredible skills that educators bring to the table, whether it's in the classroom or the boardroom, I think that's when the US succeeds.

Speaker 2: 39:47

And I think that there's something to be said. With more outside agencies recognizing what teachers bring to the table and maybe within education, the infrastructure itself, there will be more respect for what we actually have in these people as well, because we are in this really bizarre time right now where we seem to have people that are being hired and then don't really have the skill set that they need to do the jobs. And, interestingly enough to again piggyback on your comment here one of my podcast guests who had been on several different podcasts, so I was very intimidated to interview her the first time. So I had her on and at the end, you know it stopped recording and I said okay, you know, can you give me some feedback? I'm always open to feedback. And she said I'm going to tell you you are not the first former teacher that has had me on.

Speaker 2: 40:52

She had had three or four former teachers doing a variety of different kinds of podcasts. They weren't all about burnout, but she said I love doing. I love it when I find out a host is a former teacher, because everything is very organized, I have all the information I need well in advance. They're very prepared, you know, they're timely. And she just she said it's if I find out that somebody has and they're a teacher. She said it's almost like a foof. I don't even have to worry about this one and I was very flattered by that. So to your point is very true. So what you know.

Speaker 1: 41:33

I have to laugh, right Like you and I both. We agreed on seven o'clock tonight, right, what the like we both on at quarter two. When I got on, I was not expecting to see you at all, I was expecting to just make sure the camera was working. You know this, that and the other thing. And there you were. I was kind of laughing. I was like, well, two educators, you know, because if you're 10 minutes early you're late you know, I don't know about you, tim.

Speaker 2: 42:00

I was that person that was getting there in the morning with the custodian absolutely I get all my work done, then I, then I have my gossip time and my time with my other teachers at the end of the day, you know Sure. Yeah, I got to get my stuff done at the beginning.

Speaker 1: 42:16

Yeah, Right, right.

Speaker 2: 42:17

This concludes part one of a two-part interview. Please join us next week for part two. Thanks, today's episode was produced and edited by me. The theme music is by Otis McDonald featuring Joni Ines. If you know someone who might enjoy these conversations, please share the podcast episodes as much and as often as you can. It's as simple as copying the link you use to access today's episode and sending it in a message or sharing it on social media. I'm a small, independent operation and your shares broaden our audience. Perhaps you or someone you know will be inspired to talk about teacher burnout. If you would like to get your voice on my podcast, contact me via the link on my webpage. Taughtbuzzsproutcom. Coach speaker and author Rashid Ogunlaro said it may take many voices for people to hear the same message. Join me in being one of the many voices rising up to get the message out around educator burnout. This is Melissa LaFleur. Thank you for listening to TOT the podcast.

Speaker 2: 43:36

I have an important reminder slash disclaimer to share. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer or company. Content provided on this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as professional advice. We encourage you to do your own research and consult with qualified professionals before making any decisions based on the information discussed in this or any other episode. Additionally, any opinions or statements made during the podcast are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company or individual Listener. Discretion is advised. Thank you for tuning in.