Pilot Series with Kelley Young Part 3 (Final) - Remastered Original Second Episode of Taught

Could the silent struggles of educators be the key to understanding the widespread issue of teacher burnout? Join us, as we navigate the complex landscape that many teachers face, particularly in special education. Our conversation pulls back the curtain on the unspoken agreements that keep educators from voicing their genuine concerns and aspirations. We dive into the emotional toll of teaching and the disillusionment that comes when the belief in creating change within the system begins to wane. Together, we discuss the urgency of advocacy and the necessity of bringing marginalized voices to the forefront of educational dialogues.

Chapters

• 0:06 The Impact of Teacher Burnout
• 15:12 Personal Reflections on Teaching Trauma
• 21:58 Humorous Moments and Staff Room Etiquette
• 28:38 The Power of Educator Voices

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

a key factor in my burnout is feeling muzzled. I know what's best. I know, um, what's best. What's best? I mean, I know what's best practice, um, and then I know what I'm supposed to say and not supposed to say to families. To come into the system as a family member and to have, you know, feel that my primary role is an advocate to families and individuals with disabilities, and then to feel muzzled constantly about what I might be allowed to say or risk potentially losing not just my job but my teaching license.

Speaker 2: 1:03

A few years ago, I started writing a fictitious story based on my time as an educator. It is called Taught, and the story was partially inspired out of anger and frustration fueled by burnout. Okay, actually, it was more than partially inspired by anger and frustration. But Taught has also become a vehicle for me to tell what I thought at the time and in some ways continue to think was and is the real story of teaching. I now realize that my perspective is not everyone's perspective, but there are some pieces of taught that resonated with many educators. This podcast is an extension of that story and I, a former teacher, will interview other educators, asking them to share how they really feel about the current state of education. Why are so many teachers burnt out? Why are so many like me leaving the field? We likely won't solve any problems or come up with any solutions, but we can create a community of voices that maybe begin the conversation around how educators can take back teaching. I'm Melissa LaFleur. Welcome to Taught the podcast. This is the final episode in a three-part series on special education teacher burnout. My friend Kelly, a former special education teacher and consultant, and I are beginning to talk about the unspoken agreement educators feel they make to not talk about the problems we face. Today's conversation starts with this discussion.

Speaker 2: 2:34

I also clearly have been negative for a couple of years in my conversations around education. I think some of that negativity comes from not being heard, though, and not feeling like it's okay to say the negative things. Definitely, when I started my teaching career, which was back in 2007, there was definitely a vibe of we don't talk about that. You act like everything's okay, this is the greatest job in the world. We don't talk about certain things, and which is not my personality. My personality is to talk about everything. You know I'm, I'm totally out there. I like to like to be authentic, and that was hard for me, and I still feel like, to some degree, that's there, that there are things that we're not supposed to talk about Absolutely, and I'm going to say, now that you bring that up, that is a key factor in my burnout is feeling muzzled.

Speaker 1: 3:37

I know what's best. I know what's best. I mean, I know what's best practice. What's best, I mean, I know what's best practice, and then I know what I'm supposed to say and not supposed to say to families. To come into the system as a family member and to have, you know, feel that my primary role is an advocate to families and individuals with disabilities, and then to feel muzzled constantly about what I might be allowed to say or risk potentially losing not just my job but my teaching license yeah, that's a tremendous level of stress that I am also not supposed to talk about. Nobody wants to hear that, and when, if I say it, it's a real showstopper. It's a real showstopper.

Speaker 1: 4:25

Yeah, I don't think people are aware of that and I'm not even quite sure like what to do with that For myself. Time and time and time again, I've come up against these situations where I'm like is this the time where it's worth losing my job to go public with this, to make this known, to share with other people some of the absolute travesties that are taking place right under our nose that nobody knows about, because everybody smiles and keeps on making arts and crafts and I've seen other people do it and I've seen stories come out on the news and I haven't seen it make any change. So I've had this belief throughout that I could make more change being in the system than if I'm outside of it, and I don't know that that's true anymore. I think that's been a significant change for me over the last couple of years is I've had this constant desire to, even if I shift positions, to stay in it because I can make change on the inside. I don't know if I believe that anymore.

Speaker 2: 5:26

So you know that was one of the themes of my fictional story that I wrote. Was that because and that part was biographical for me, this chasing, for me it was an impact. I didn't necessarily care that I ever got any accolades for anything I did in the classroom, but it was really important to me, specifically in the area of writing, to feel like I had impacted students and empowered them to use those skills to do something better or do something period. And I I also at some point lost that. I felt like I was never going to make an impact in any way, um, that there were just too many barriers. But one of my passions, especially the last five years of my career, was being an equity advocate in the buildings that I worked in and I really enjoyed that work, as frustrating as it was. And to some degree, that has, for me, inspired doing this podcast, because one of the things, regardless of which marginalized group we're looking at, is that they're silenced and nothing good ever comes from that. Nothing good ever comes from having a group of people whose voices aren't heard. Whose voices aren't heard, and I really, in my heart of hearts, believe that if teachers can, again, for me that's where that negativity came from was just this inability to ever really be honest and to feel like the people around me were being honest.

Speaker 2: 7:24

I have had a lot of administrators in my career and I've only had a couple that I felt like were honest about what we were doing, and it wasn't ever anything big, but it was. I guess I felt like kind of like I had these blinders on and they were taken off and I realized that the education system is and this is really gross an extension of our political system in the United States and that scares the hell out of me. I don't want a politician, I want somebody that's my administrator, who's in there with me, and even if we don't agree, we're still fighting the good fight, and I do. I do want to say I have had a couple of administrators that were like that but um, you can't, for me, I couldn't not be negative because I felt like I was, my voice was stifled, we were all pretending and nothing was happening for the kids, so that's very.

Speaker 1: 8:35

Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think in some ways it's like what happened with institutions People didn't know what was going on, nobody talked about it, nobody saw it. When people see it and they know what's going on, then it's like oh shit, we got to change some things. I feel like this is 100% the case with special education. It contained classroom settings, so it was called Life Skills and it was for students in grades 3 to 7 who were very significantly impacted by their disabilities, and the classroom was an absolute. It was a nightmare. I had consulted in there before. The support staff didn't want to be there. They weren't trained to be there. The classroom setup was dangerous. The actual physical location of the classroom was dangerous for the students, the combination of students. They triggered each other with their different needs and sensitivities, and I went to the lunchroom one day and sat with the other, the gen ed teachers who had no effing idea what was going on in that classroom at any point, and one of them said, you know that she had a niece with Down syndrome and the family was considering what might be best for her education. And it just seemed really lovely the program that we had up there going for these special kids, and you know what were my thoughts. Should she be a part of this special education? And I said absolutely not. I would never choose this for someone that I love and I would never suggest it for someone else.

Speaker 1: 10:16

People think that this is okay because they can't see it and they don't have to deal with it, and so we make the assumption if you can't see it, you can't hear it, it's being taken care of, and that is a very dangerous assumption. Am I making things sound worse than they are? You know I have been in a situation where I have seen a lot of bad shit. You know, as a consultant, that's a lot of times what you get called in for. So I have definitely seen a lot of extreme cases. Now, I've seen a lot of amazing things too just incredible teachers and these just really fantastic examples of how things look when they're going right. Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 11:02

But I think it's just important to be honest. If families know and understand what they're getting, that's essential In special education. Anything good, any positive change to the system and resources being made available, has always come through parent advocacy and self-advocacy. So if parents don't know and advocates don't have the communication skills or the age level. You know they're not at the age level where they can advocate, then how the hell can those positive changes come? So I think that's yeah, just being able to be transparent. I would love to feel. I think I don't know, I had no idea the conversation was going to go here. But, to be honest, even the thought of just being able to communicate the reality that the goods, the bads and everything in between, and feel like it's an open book for families to know and then make their own choices about what they're going to, what they're going to get upset about and what they're willing to accept and what's okay for their child, that would relieve, that could make me want to stay, that could be enough. For me is just having that weight removed and knowing people know what it is they're getting.

Speaker 1: 12:16

I have people come into the classroom and there's this kind of like. You know, there's this resistance, like the families. They're feeling unsettled about leaving their child with significant needs at the school and the school team is saying, just trust us, they have to trust us. And I'm thinking, no, they don't. They don't get to know anything about what's going on in here. We're not really telling them anything or willing to let them see or show them. And no, they do not have to trust us, and they should not have to. We should show them what it looks like and then they can make their own decisions. And that level of transparency is necessary to make improvements. And why isn't that there? Are, we afraid, so defensive? Because we're the parents right Like we're.

Speaker 2: 13:11

I think it's litigation, it comes down to litigation, and so then we're back to money again. Districts are concerned about being sued.

Speaker 1: 13:21

Significantly more so in the States than in Canada. That's true. And still this level of, I would say, covering not necessarily it's hard to say, sometimes it's, sometimes it is actively covering up and sometimes it is just true ignorance of a way to do things better.

Speaker 2: 13:44

I strongly believe that sitting down and having conversation and people being able to really talk and say their truth is something that is becoming harder and harder to do, is something that is becoming harder and harder to do we live in.

Speaker 1: 14:08

Cancel culture now, where if you say, if you have one misstep, you can-. Yeah, I feel like I might be about to get canceled from my job right after this podcast goes live.

Speaker 2: 14:13

I might be getting canceled in life Like that, may you know, nobody reads my book. Nobody listens to my podcast. Any final thoughts on special education, special education teacher attrition, special education burnout. Anything you want to leave us with?

Speaker 1: 14:32

I, you know, I think it's it. It feels amazing just to have the space to be able to talk openly about it and it really kind of highlights the lack of opportunity for that. So I appreciate you making the space available to just kind of air things out and have these real conversations, without judgment, without, hopefully without any long-term consequences, but to just kind of process some of those feelings and thoughts that build up over the career and with the intensity and the challenges of the job. And also, you know, I'm very frustrated. I have a lot of negative things to say and I know that people don't want to hear teachers like that. It's not a good look for a teacher to be negative and down and not want to do their job. Nobody wants that teacher for their child, obviously.

Speaker 1: 15:38

But the thing that's amazing about teaching is the kids and the families and this incredible opportunity we have and the gift that we've been given to have this time with people's special people. And I think that you know that's something that every teacher that I've worked with, with the exception of maybe just a few, you know I'll feel the same when it comes to that, like just grateful and like really just enjoys, and that's what it comes down to. It's the individual people giving their hearts to individual kids, and that's that's where the magic happens, you know. So, despite all of my frustration and anger, um, and burnout, that's something that's been a magical gift. You know that, uh, whether I leave or whether I stay, I'll, I'll, I'll, cherish forever.

Speaker 2: 16:34

I agree, and we will see if we can make it through this podcast and putting it out there for people and not get judgment. We might, that's okay. I mean it's not okay, but we'll have to deal with it. So these are what I call three for the road, and then I have a final one that I'm saving for you for the end. So I'm going to try to ask all of my podcast guests these three questions. And the first one is and I think you've already answered it, but we'll see if you say what I think you're going to say what is the one thing you would change immediately in education if you could? It's a magic wand, anything you want, but only one thing boom what would it be?

Speaker 1: 17:19

I would have answered that question really differently if you'd asked me at the beginning of the conversation, which is, I think, something that's really cool about having these conversations is that you can't really know where you're going to end up at something. Yeah, I didn't even know. But just transparency. Yeah, the first place I ever worked was at the Experimental Education Unit at the University of Washington, which is an inclusive preschool classroom, and in every classroom they had mics hanging down from the ceiling and they had a two-way mirror and at any point throughout your day there could be parents, behavior consultants, university professors, students, whoever in that behind that mirror, and you never knew who it was going to be or what they were going to be watching you for.

Speaker 1: 18:06

And when I say that to people here now my practice, it's like, oh, that must have been intimidating. Nope, it was awesome. It made sure that that transparency, that accountability that's how I started my practice, and so I anticipated that level of transparency to carry on, and it's been a shock not to have that and then to have actually the opposite. But if we had that kind of feel and also the acceptance that has to go with it in order to make that safe to do right Like people have to know we're humans, we're going to make mistakes, we're going to say the wrong thing, we're going to do the one thing, the wrong thing sometimes, and we can have those conversations and then do the best we can to move on from there.

Speaker 2: 18:48

I agree, all right. Number two because of the nature of what we do, we witness tragedy frequently. Tell me about one of the most tragic things you have witnessed as an educator that you feel comfortable sharing, and it doesn't have to be a long you know, just a, because I think this piece is important to we're all going through trauma Every year. I I went through Educators experience secondary trauma all the time.

Speaker 1: 19:33

I'm sorry, I've seen too much and I try not to think about it and I try not to talk about it. I don't even know where to start to answer that question. To tell you the truth, it's like you asked me and then just this Rolodex of things that I have tried not to talk about, it just kind of opens up and there's just not a space to process that, to communicate about it, and it's a heavy weight. I've seen kids physically restrained, locked in rooms, isolated, put in situations that absolutely caused them to have very scary and dangerous meltdowns that were 100% preventable and led to significant physical injury. I've seen students put in situations that, from not getting the support that they needed, that it has led to suicide. Yeah, it's intense.

Speaker 2: 21:26

Yeah, it's intense Because this is something we don't talk about and we need to have an open forum, a space where we can connect there also, okay, so I'm going to take you out of that space now and I apologize for putting you there To balance out the trauma. Kids are damn funny, so I'm going to caveat this with I'm putting on the podcast it's not for kids, but don't go too dirty, just in case that comes up. What is one of the funniest things you've experienced during your time as an educator?

Speaker 1: 22:21

That's tricky because there's just there's so many. It's hard to know, though, how funny it is to other people, you know, because so much of that has to do with the relationships that you have with these unique individuals. And, yeah, just knowing their quirks and personalities. I'm going to go with a two for here, because I always like the opportunity to talk more rather than less. One is it's not really funny, but just one.

Speaker 1: 22:48

A very magical moment that I always hold on to is some planning that I did with a classroom teacher around how to support a student with Down syndrome to be able to participate in like a five paragraph essay kind of situation in the classroom, and so we had decided that this student would be able to go around the school and take pictures of his favorite things, and then he would say one word to go along with each of those pictures, and then he would present that in a PowerPoint format in front of the class, and that would be his five paragraph essay.

Speaker 1: 23:22

The kid loved it. He got to practice all kinds of awesome skills learning how to use the camera, you know, socializing with peers to get the pictures, practicing his communication, presentation, and then, ultimately, what happened is that the other kids in the classroom loved it and were so incredibly jealous that he got to do PowerPoint while they had to write these boring five paragraph essays. So the classroom teacher said you know, you're right, why aren't we all doing PowerPoints? And then the entire class did PowerPoint presentations and it was just. It was such a beautiful example of how inclusion makes the environment more rich for everyone.

Speaker 1: 24:04

I love that. It was really special and funny. I'll tell you this is fairly recent, so I've supported a student who has very complex needs and has been given the label of having um an intellectual disability Lots of challenges. Communication is also pretty significantly visually impaired. Um and I was walking with her through the school one day and she I'm going to change the names of some teachers here and she said Mrs Johnson. I said oh, I don't think she's around. And she says yes, she is, I can smell her. And I'm like really and sure as shit, mrs Johnson was right around the corner. I have a very sensitive nose myself, so I'm like that's amazing, you have really got a nose which absolutely makes sense, right? She? You know, she's got some, some super strengths in other areas.

Speaker 1: 25:04

So the next day we're walking around and I said hey, let's go see Mr Moore, the principal. We'll stop by and say hello. And she said he's not here today. I said oh, I think he is. I am not aware that he's gone today. And she said no. I said how do you know that? And she said I can't smell him. It smells different around here. She was right. Oh, there was somebody else filling in and she, she sniffed it out and I just thought that is hilarious, amazing. I just love this kid and I love having the opportunity to know people that are just so unique and awesome my final thing whose responsibility is it to take care of the dishes in the staff room?

Speaker 2: 25:58

Love it.

Speaker 1: 26:01

What are your thoughts on this? I have a very easy and fast, immediate response. That's probably the wrong one, but the very first thing that comes to my mind is not me, just not me, just not me. Don't care, don't want to know about the rotating list. It's just not me.

Speaker 2: 26:21

Ah, the rotating list. And, on that note, thank you for doing this, for being my first ever guest. Like you, sealed your slot as a good friend. You were already there, but this is next level, did I seal?

Speaker 1: 26:38

my spot to a trip to Portugal.

Speaker 2: 26:41

You did, you already had it.

Speaker 1: 26:42

I told you at the beginning. You're right. Okay, thank you for the opportunity. I laughed, I cried, did everything. I got enraged. You put me through. I think I need a nap.

Speaker 2: 26:55

I'm exhausted after this or therapy, although it was kind of like therapy.

Speaker 1: 26:59

Yeah, yeah, it's an emotional journey and that's what it is. That's this job, right.

Speaker 2: 27:09

I want to take a moment here to mention my friend, amy Schamberg. For anyone listening who may be interested in resources for themselves or others in the area of burnout, the term self-care has become yet another expectation put on educators' plates. We all know we need to be taking time for ourselves to recharge our batteries, need to be taking time for ourselves to recharge our batteries, but finding that time doing the things that make us feel taken care of can seem like one more chore added to the never-ending list. However, nationally board-certified health and wellness coach and former school psychologist, amy Schamberg, has an alternative to the make-time-for-a-yoga-class philosophy of self-care. According to Amy, real self-care doesn't require finding time, spending money or adding more to an already full plate. She has developed a resource to give anyone suffering from burnout an alternative to the self-care rhetoric we have been hearing. It is called Self-Care by Subtraction and focuses on examining what we can safely and effectively remove from our hectic lives to give ourselves back the precious gift of time. Self-care by Subtraction is a free downloadable resource that can be found on Amy's website, amyschamburgwellnessatamyschamburgcom. Schamburg is S-C-H-A-M-B-E-R-G. See the notes for today's episode for a link to Amy's website.

Speaker 2: 28:38

This concludes my interview with Kelly and my first attempt at getting episodes of my podcast out for public consumption. Honestly, I can't believe I actually did it. Starting April 6th, new episodes will upload to my website, taughtbuzzsproutcom, every Friday by 5 pm Western European summertime. My guests and I are hoping their voices and stories will be heard. You can help with this by sharing episodes or the website taughtbuzzsproutcom. Perhaps you or someone you know will be inspired to continue the conversation around educator burnout. Also, if you would like to get your voice and story on my podcast, see today's show notes and contact me at the email. You will find there. Coach, speaker and author Rashid Ogunlaru said it may take many voices for people to hear the same message. Please join me in being one of the many voices. This is Melissa LaFleur. Thank you for listening to TAUT, the podcast I wish I knew.