00:00:00:00 - 00:00:17:19

I often deal with business owners who are blindly going down the path. And it sounds it sounds very heroic that, you know, that they're never going to give up. But sometimes you put, you know, you push it too far. You've got to know when the end of the road is there. Never give up until it actually is time to give up.

00:00:17:20 - 00:00:33:10

Yeah, I was attempting to be the first person. It wasn't a race, it wasn't a speed record. But I find myself rushing. I find myself making up my own timeline and saying I have to get to the next food this day. And that was a load of ballocks I didn't need to do that. I didn't need to compete with myself to that level, and I almost died because of it.

00:00:33:10 - 00:00:58:28

And I learned a harsh lesson. And then, you know, after that, I started to top up more with my water. I started to take my time and listen more to my to my body guys, Matt Haycox here. And welcome to another episode of The Matt Haycox Show. While I am super duper excited for today because I've got not only a repeat guest but who has become a good friend, Mr. Ash Dykes.

00:00:59:01 - 00:01:15:28

And and this is actually given me give me a new angle to do before because I have done a couple of repeatable podcast with people. I certainly remember doing one I've done three with a friend of mine, Bren- Brendan Loughnane. Yeah, the fights fighter. But we've, we've normally got a fight he's just done to talk about at the time.

00:01:16:06 - 00:01:32:10

So when I knew I was doing this I thought, I don't want to repeat the stuff that Ash and I have already talked about and also Ash has been on the, on a big kind of podcast, podcast publicity trail, I guess, over the last month and year or so. So he's he's probably been telling a lot of similar stories. So I wanted to try and find a different angle.

00:01:32:12 - 00:01:47:05

So I've gone back this morning and listen to the podcast that me and Ash have done I've also listened to a couple of other ones that he's done with other people. What I've done is I've picked out various sentences, quotes, mini paragraphs, you know, that think things that you've talked about, and I want to kind of pick those and go deep.

00:01:47:05 - 00:02:05:08

And obviously we're going to be talking about some, you know, some of your stories, some of your explorations, a bit, because it's just, I guess, anecdotal. They're going to come in. But what I want to really get into more is, is Ash the entrepreneur and also, you know, Ash living life on your terms, which I very much assume you do.

00:02:05:08 - 00:02:35:02

And again, we talked with Richard about last time and, you know, you and I have talked about it in a friendship over the last couple of years. Yeah. I just think there's so many things we can take from your story, take from your journey that are applicable to anyone in any stage of their life, whether they're struggling in struggling to overcome something, whether they're an entrepreneur and they want analogies, you know, from from from from another space, you know, whether it's people who are not happy with the life they're living and they want to go and do something else.

00:02:35:02 - 00:02:52:23

So. So if you can dig deeper that I'm super excited. I always love I love doing podcasts with friends anyway because it just has a different, more relaxed dynamic, doesn't it? Definitely it does it. I feel like we're so far apart, you know, it's like. Right. It's like an awkward first date. Is that almost touch your hand? Ooh.

00:02:52:25 - 00:03:10:08

Well, we'll see how the next hour goes. We might get a little bit closer inch by inch. I mean, I guess just for anyone who hasn't listened to the first episode or hasn't seen the first one, which we'll put some links on this to make sure you come just to set the scene. I mean, Ash is, he's an explorer, he's an adventurer.

00:03:10:13 - 00:03:34:07

Is he's an international action man. I think you're world record was walking the Yangtze River, which is 4000 miles. You did it 352 days it that yet but good memories Yeah go set a bit more context yes so that was in 2019 that was the sort of biggest the most ambitious expedition. It was Guinness World Record, it was Nat Geo documentary.

00:03:34:07 - 00:04:10:20

It was then onto the Joe Rogan podcast and sort of really was the catalyst of the career. But before that I also became the first person to hike Madagascar's length. That was 155 days, 1600 miles, and that was just brutal. Everything happened that often. That was one day. That was just a pleasant day's trek. And then Mongolia was the first record and that was solo, unsupported, invalid insurance, no pick up or evacuation plan, pulling an 18 stone trailer behind, carrying everything that I needed to survive the 1500 miles outside mountains Gobi Desert on the Golden Steppe.

00:04:10:23 - 00:04:30:28

But even before that, there were lots of dangerous, reckless and illegal adventures that I'd done from 19 2 to 22, which I discussed as well on the exercise since. Well, listen, let's get straight in with a question that I guess I haven't perfected. You just made me think you it then you said you said that the Yangtze River want the National Geographic.

00:04:31:04 - 00:04:49:29

That was the the start of the career really when it went from being a hobby to beat beats have been a career. Yeah. And prior to that did you think that was going to be turning into a career, turning it into something monetized, or were you still kind of just having fun, you know, living life, being an adventurer at that point?

00:04:49:29 - 00:05:13:25

Yeah, no, you know, I, I was struggling. The yangzi was one that I had to do because Mongolia and Madagascar whilst they were a world first and they did change things. They didn't change things significantly and I wasn't earning good money, whereas I thought I would. After Mongolia was 23 was 2040. I thought once I do this, there'll be a recorded world first.

00:05:13:25 - 00:05:31:25

There aren't many left in the world. And so I thought that's going to be a tipping point. That's the equivalent of a gold medal. I like to say people do say us, but there was nothing, I think for that whole year I made never said this, but I think I made no more than £4,000 in the whole 12 months.

00:05:31:25 - 00:05:47:23

I was still living with my parents. I gave up my life in Thailand as a scuba diver, Muay Thai fighter. I was living with them and I told them this Mongolia will change everything. And it just didn't. And I was like, Right, we're going to go again. And this time I'm going to make it Madagascar. And the Madagascar was know.

00:05:47:24 - 00:06:12:18

I hope to break that on TV. But again, that was a year that I struggled with, maybe again, brutally honest, 12 to £15000 a whole year I made off the back of Madagascar and I thought two world records aren't enough. Yes, it was my it was my passion. I did love doing it, but I was pushing myself so hard and seeking out these first so that I could change the way I was living.

00:06:12:18 - 00:06:28:08

And I was living on a low budget. You know, I didn't see money from a healthy point of view. I thought it was a necessity. I had to make it. I had to go out, do 9 to 5 or work in a fish and chip shop. I just didn't have a healthy attitude towards money, but that was because I wasn't making money.

00:06:28:08 - 00:06:51:13

And so I became bitter. Quite so. And then after Madagascar, I was like, Right, this needs to be such a big boost. We need TV, we need big sponsors. That's it changes everything. It took two years to plan, but after Yancey, that's when I when I saw the big change and that changed everything for me after I will get into kind of getting deeper on actually entrepreneur later on next.

00:06:51:13 - 00:07:07:05

But just a couple of questions off the back of what you were saying. I mean, in that year where you went for Grant or in that year where you kind of earned 12 to 15. Yeah. How were you earning that? Was was that from monetizing the adventures in some way that wasn't you working at working a job that was taking some sponsorship or something like that?

00:07:07:06 - 00:07:30:12

Yeah, that was mainly presentations. So, you know, I was in charge and back then again I'd be excited to secure a presentation for £300 for like a good one or 2 hours. And I thought that was a big deal back then. Obviously we progressed and moved a lot further since then. But you know, I was secured big talks back then at that age us to doing something that I loved.

00:07:30:14 - 00:07:50:04

And it was kind of then that I was inspired to pursue even more. I kind of and that's what kept me on track just when I thought, you know, I need to get a normal job or I need to move back to Thailand, which I didn't like living in Thailand. I enjoyed it, but I was always counting the pennies to see if I could get the boat to the next island next door to have a good time.

00:07:50:04 - 00:08:06:09

And if you counted pennies in Thailand when it's such a cheap country incident, you're in, you're in big trouble, you know? And so I kind of knew that I am earning I couldn't afford to move into my own place. My parents allowed me to stay with them rent free because I was struggling to share and they could see.

00:08:06:09 - 00:08:25:23

And every time I thought, Right, this is it. I need to get myself in the I've tried, I failed. But there's no harm in failure. No chance to get myself a normal job. That would be a presentation that would happen or sponsored that would show interest or a magazine that would sort of take notes and get me more publicity, which would bring in new opportunities.

00:08:25:23 - 00:08:48:04

And and I think it was low incentives like that that kept me on track. It kept me believing when I really should have given up. And so it's funny that because you said something a minute ago, which it actually made a note of when when I was listening this morning about the fact that you moved on to your next adventure because you were bored of being of earning money by being a scuba diving structure and getting paid to do Thai boxing fights in Thailand.

00:08:48:04 - 00:09:09:03

I think thinking, you know what? What level of adventure must you need in your life to I mean, the entire world must was kind of dream of or not, never mind dream or be scared to think of a life of being living in Thailand, being a scuba diving instructor, getting paid to be a fighter. I mean, it's like it's like a Thai James Bond, isn't it?

00:09:09:03 - 00:09:25:14

But for you. For you, that is just too boring. Yeah. Yeah. You can't move out and find it. Find the next day. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think with scuba diving, it became just a job. And it's kind of like with everything. It sounds good and exciting, I guess it's the same with skydiving as straight as well. It's great.

00:09:25:14 - 00:09:41:04

But then when you teach as you as you job and I know some skydiving instructors, they actually get bored or they want more money from it because it becomes very repetitive, like any job. And so with scuba diving, yeah, I was kind of like, This is fun, but I can't be doing this year after year for another ten years.

00:09:41:04 - 00:10:02:25

And then when I'm in my thirties or in my forties, I'm still earning what I was earning maybe £400 a month. And I just thought, I can't I can't be doing that, you know? So it was that sort of that changed my mindset and thought, Well, I don't want to go to a different 9 to 5 and digest or to think maybe there's something in it in these world first, which was Mongolia that I didn't know was a world first.

00:10:02:25 - 00:10:18:04

But once I clicked and registered the angle, if I completed the first, it's not that got my brain ticking thinking maybe I can do something after that. And so how did you feel kind of coming back to I mean, everyone just coming back, You and obviously you live in you know, you live in England. England is home. Yeah.

00:10:18:04 - 00:10:32:26

And, you know, I think about this from my personal perspective that, you know, and obviously I've got a much lower sense of adventure than you. But, you know, now I live in Dubai. I mean, I've been I've lost two and a half years. And when I come back to England, I find it. But otherwise I find it depressing.

00:10:32:26 - 00:10:56:02

I don't want to get into a rant of England bashing, but it's a real it is a real chore for me, for me to be back to, you know, my life feels elsewhere, you know, my home feels elsewhere. Aside from it being home, you know, I need the things that are in that location, whether that's the the sun or the energy or the optimism or the or the beach surrounded by those high caliber people, etc..

00:10:56:02 - 00:11:08:12

So, you know, when I when I come back now, if it wasn't for the fact that my daughter said my oldest daughter's in England, I mean, I wouldn't come back. I mean, obviously my business is here. But yeah, I just I don't really need to be here or I dip in and out. Yeah. And how how does that feel for you?

00:11:08:12 - 00:11:29:06

Because, I mean, yes, it's for a different thing. I'm seeking different things in Dubai, too. What you're seeking on an adventure. But, you know, I am drawing some parallels from that. And your and yours are probably on steroids. I mean, like I'm waking up on Saturday morning, my first day back in England, and I'm getting irritated because the missus and I, first thing we do, we wake up in the morning is we both pick our phones up and we both go to a nap.

00:11:29:06 - 00:11:47:18

In debacle, Karim Which is like the Dubai version of Deliveroo, okay? And you go in there, it's 24 hours yet and then must be I'm not joking. There must be three or 4000 restaurants on there. And there's everything from spending three quid on a kebab to a hundred quid on a truffle pasta. Right. And it's all there in 35, 45 minutes.

00:11:47:18 - 00:12:05:02

And you can, you can niche down into the keto diet, the juice diet, you know, restaurants under 500 because you can have whatever you want. So I wake up, I wake up on Saturday morning, it's a chicken sandwich or nothing, or take a walk to the co-op to get some to get some mighty white. And then my then my small scale first world problems.

00:12:05:02 - 00:12:27:16

I mean, I'm talking to a guy here who, you know, who wanted to get a £10 BMX to the cycling country. It's just like Lincolnshire. I mean, I mean, does it does it feel what's the word like claustrophobic or irritating for you when I come back here I yeah, I used to feel that, I used to feel especially Mongolia and Madagascar.

00:12:27:17 - 00:12:45:25

I used to get quite I'm not going to say depressed but down and out was case of like it's raining, it's dark, it's gloomy, there's no interaction with people. People stay indoors, especially in the winter, and we're social creatures, right? And in Dubai, you don't have that. You always communicate and you always meet new people. And I love communicating, meeting new people.

00:12:45:25 - 00:13:11:17

And then when I found I come back from sort of my adventures around the world back into the UK, there was just not that that communication, seeing people out and about. So I did miss that. It was only after the Yank seat that I kind of realized what I needed to do and that was like, Stay busy. So now when I come back to London because I'm like a different stage of my career now, but I haven't made it, made it like you've made it, made it where you can literally go wherever you want to any point.

00:13:11:17 - 00:13:33:28

I'm getting there, but I'm not there yet. And so when I come back from the yangzi with these adventures, I focus on what needs to be done whilst I'm back. And right now it's all exciting for me. It's like my production team working on my latest TV show. It's me meeting up with book publishing agents. So I think if it wasn't for that, I would need to be based somewhere else for sure.

00:13:34:06 - 00:13:54:26

And I do think eventually I will need to head off and seek. You know, I've always looked at Dubai with my limited company out there and B based that Dubai is what I remember. You you UK came for. It was your first time, wasn't it? It was your first time in my 2020. Wasn't in December 2020 yet and then again in 2021 February.

00:13:54:29 - 00:14:17:12

I actually, do you remember, it was in. We took quad bikes in the desert and I was wearing a pink dress. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was that wasn't it? The Greek restaurant where we were just smashing. Yeah. Yeah, it was. And you remember, I mean, it's obviously not as exciting as trying to try to skip a country with no with no passport like you would do on your journeys.

00:14:17:12 - 00:14:38:26

But you for a walk with the girls to to try and get into Abu Dhabi for the Grand Prix. We go we, we, we try to stay on the radio and we got yeah. Kicked out We we were refused entry on good times ended up we went to non-Muslim. We had never never spoken issues yet so in a way we were so close.

00:14:38:29 - 00:14:57:18

Oh man yeah good times. Good times. And then again in 2021, wasn't it? So, yeah, you know, I think that's a place where I want to base myself in the future. I want a place out there because you, you write as much as now. I'm loving it because I've only moved to London about two months ago and I'm loving London and what it has to offer.

00:14:57:18 - 00:15:11:07

But it's been great weather. And so I could be blind of the site that this is marvelous weather, whereas in the winter that's all going to change and I'm not going to see the sun. It's going to be clouds. It's going to be like 7 hours daylight. But again, you know, I have to stay dogged. I'm not there yet.

00:15:11:07 - 00:15:33:25

I'm still in the grind, if you like. So I'm just appreciating everything right now, taking it by stride and just trying to progress. Do you miss any aspects of Wales? Not yet, but I think I will because it's only two months and I find myself, I'm really busy here. And so every day that's something that needs to be done in a meeting, people holding meetings or doing podcasts.

00:15:33:25 - 00:15:50:03

Whereas in Wales I just fell out of it. You know, there's no one coming in from Dubai to Wales. There's no one sort of no good meetings, no good brands. My production team, if they needed me, I would need to take a trip from Wales and they'd be to cover that and I'd need to stay in a hotel and all of that.

00:15:50:03 - 00:16:05:03

So now that I'm here in London, everything's on my on my doorstep. Like this morning I walked, he was 15 minutes from me and I noticed I didn't stay up. You go a lot quicker than me. My, my, my, my train go into King's Cross at 9:30. It took me 50 minutes to get here. Wow. Yeah. Crazy. I mean, have you.

00:16:05:05 - 00:16:25:15

Have you got any advice to any to anyone thinking about moving to somewhere else? Because, mean, I talk about this with Dubai a lot, and I know when I first moved there, for me, there was no real decision. I'd kind of blown that holiday where where you and I got together. I'd gone for eight days. There was a lockdown in the UK and for me it was very easy for eight days to become 14 to become a month.

00:16:25:15 - 00:16:42:23

That just went on because I didn't I didn't really feel any desire or attachment to come back to England. Yeah, but when I talk about the move, for me it was just always very simple. I just move. I decided I wanted to move and I moved and people in the UK particularly would make a big song and dance like, God, you moving to Dubai?

00:16:42:23 - 00:16:57:20

It's crazy, you know, out. You're not going to like it. You're going to be so unhappy. And and what you're going to do is you don't like it. So my answer was, well, it was very easy to move and it'll be very easy to move back. It's, you know, it's a plane ticket and a couple of suitcases. That was a plane ticket and a couple couple of suitcases back, I think.

00:16:57:27 - 00:17:18:25

But people people underestimate or so they overestimate the difficulty involved in making a move yet and they underestimate the impact. But making that move will have on them, you know, whether whether that is career prospects for someone like you. And I mean, obviously, you know, finding production companies, finding sponsors, etc., while not not not going to be easy.

00:17:19:02 - 00:17:37:00

But, you know, we always, I guess, naturally gravitate to where we're born because that's where our family are. That's that's where our friends are in the same way that, you know, growth comes from any learning, any, any education, any failings, you know, that we do along the way. Yeah, I think people completely underestimate the importance of moving to somewhere else.

00:17:37:03 - 00:18:05:22

Yeah. And that's you know, listen, I'm not here to sing the virtues of Dubai, for example. You not to to do it for London because we've all got something that is more relevant to what we want to do, whether it's seeking, you know, a bigger career, whether it's seeking, you know, a better level of education, whether it's even, you know, seeking relationships, you know, so so that you don't have to marry the bird down the street that you've known your entire life because it's only three birds in the air and the local jobs that move and that growth is so important.

00:18:05:22 - 00:18:24:01

But it's such a such a fear factor for so many people. I mean, you know, obviously you've done it now. Was it complicated? No, it seemed complicated at the beginning. It seemed overwhelming. But again, I just focused on one step at a time with everything breaking the goals down. And you're right, I think as humans, we just thrive on development.

00:18:24:01 - 00:18:41:25

And the only way to develop yourself is is through experience, right. And it's one of those with move in, with getting out there. It's stuff like that. I almost say it can't be explained. It has to be experienced because you could sit there all day long and explain the benefits of just trying something, but if they don't get it, they're never going to never going to do it.

00:18:41:25 - 00:18:55:22

And that's what I saw. I kind of looked at the pros and cons to do in the adventure, to go and off traveling. And all of my friends were kind of like, Yeah, but what are you going to do once you've ticked off the bucket list for the world's highest bungee or trekking, the Great Wall, at the end of the day, you're going to return home.

00:18:55:29 - 00:19:16:28

We would have secured our degrees and master's degrees. We would have moved on with our careers, found a job that's paying well and you'll still be traveling taken off. But bucket list of the bucket list. And I knew that that wasn't the vision. I knew that I was going out to travel in order to learn more and experience more, which would then open up new opportunities and options to life.

00:19:16:28 - 00:19:34:07

Because I knew my career advisor was wrong when she listed eight different occupations that you could potentially do. I knew there were hundreds, hundreds of thousands out there. It's just I wasn't seeing them where I was currently based. So sometimes you just got to get out of that box, haven't you? Absolutely. And you're right. You know, if it's a big move, you can always move back.

00:19:34:11 - 00:19:52:21

You can always move if it doesn't work out, at least now you would have experienced it. You would have figured it out. Me coming to London, it's been one of those whereby I kind of think I should have moved soon. Sooner? Yeah, I think it's. Well, you know, I always find that people people use money or finances as an excuse.

00:19:52:21 - 00:20:21:26

And so it's very, very easy for you to move to Dubai, you know, because you've got a business or you've got the money to do it. I mean, my circle of friends over there is is everything from okay? Yes, very wealthy people. But, you know, massage therapists, personal trainers, please. So yeah. And the any you know, what would be considered a normal, normal job in the UK, you know, not not people with big money with bigger you know, with big money and got kids and, you know family sometimes, right?

00:20:21:27 - 00:20:41:04

Absolutely. Okay. It's an economy plane ticket, not a first class plane ticket. So it's one suitcase and a cheap flight, not ten suitcases, an expensive flight, you know, with within within reason. Your only limiting factor on this is is your fear in your mindset, not your finances in your eyes. Yeah, 100%. And I think it's that lack of understanding, right?

00:20:41:04 - 00:20:56:04

I think when someone doesn't really know where to start, it's just easy not to stop. Whereas if you look at locations, if you find the relevant contacts, if you can speak to someone who's done it before you, then you put the picture together and you find out, Oh, hang on, it's more achievable. Then I'm anticipating here. But I think people like to scare themselves.

00:20:56:10 - 00:21:12:05

And I know that all too well with the sort of Mongolia trip. You know, everyone was saying that's impossible. It can't be done. People have tried. People sales people have almost died. And it was a case of, Yeah, but that's them. As long as I do it properly and manage it correctly and do it on my own terms, my own timeline, and maybe it's doable.

00:21:12:09 - 00:21:32:26

Well, that is a nice segway into what I was going to have as out as our first question from things that you've historically said, actually. So yeah, I heard this quote from the from the well known podcast The Matt Haycox Show that you said last time we spoke, you said just because someone hasn't done something doesn't mean it can't be done.

00:21:32:29 - 00:21:55:01

And this this resonated with me as well because I suffer from people in business a lot, kind of almost like turning that the other way around, basically saying this is the way other people do it, and therefore this is how we should be doing it. So. Right, I've obviously never thought in those terms because I've always wanted to, I guess, break the mold or find a way to do what hasn't been done before.

00:21:55:01 - 00:22:12:20

And it was only, as you know, over the last few months that I actually come across the concept of not the concept but the definition of first principles thinking. And I start to read, read a bit deeper into that. And yeah, I guess been a been a new father Again, I'm going to be going to be looking forward to hearing y y y y y right.

00:22:12:23 - 00:22:30:00

For anyone listening to this who doesn't know what first principles thinking is, effectively you're breaking everything down to the to the early stages. And the kids are the prime example because they'll go, why are we wearing that today? Oh, well, because we're going to at the office. But why do we have to wear a suit in the office?

00:22:30:04 - 00:22:52:27

Well, because we're supposed to be smart in the office. But why? And then ultimately, why should these things you tend to hit a point worse. Well, just because. Just because that's what we've always fucking done, you know, like, you know, if put you've got to look after or eat your food, whatever it may be. And I suffer a lot in business because, you know, people who've come from particularly bigger organizations, you know, very much let's say, well, that's how they do it.

00:22:53:02 - 00:23:08:24

So, so, so we we should be doing it too. Whereas nine times out of ten, the people you're looking at all in actually achieving an outcome that you want anyway, it's just, it's just how that, how they've been doing it. And what we need to do is break it back down to its beginning principles and find a way to get what we want.

00:23:08:24 - 00:23:28:09

So, I mean, you were you were effectively saying saying the same thing, but in an opposite way, because, you know, you're trying to achieve things that other people haven't done a particular. I know when you did the young thing, someone had tried to do it and it and this was not just a someone. This was, I think from memory, like an ex-military guy with you sail, you know, a very experienced explorer.

00:23:28:09 - 00:23:45:08

And the only had he tried to do it failed three times. You've been evacuated. Yeah. But that, you know, that was enough to put you off. Just because he hadn't done it didn't mean there wasn't a way for you to find a way. So I think it was a very important quote. Definitely. And I just want to I want to dig a bit deeper on that.

00:23:45:08 - 00:24:02:23

Yes. It applies so much to business and life in general. Yes. So I remember that clearly. And I remember it really got me down because I did have massive doubt. And this was actually this was Mongolia. So it was the desert that was that I was going to cross. And this guy not only was a Navy soldier, but he was a desert explorer.

00:24:02:23 - 00:24:19:10

And I was you're sort of, you know, you're your sort of beach bum living on an island fighter, scuba diver, 20 to no military background and had never been to a desert before I was living on an island, you know. And so I think with that and the list that he sent me of all the different challenges, he dropped me a note.

00:24:19:10 - 00:24:39:19

The guy directly who had attempted it three times and it was incredible is the ability to continue no matter what. And that quote terrified me. I didn't know what he meant by that. It didn't make sense to me. I was that I would think it. Maybe that's his polite way of saying you don't stand a chicken's chance or maybe he's rooting for me and he's saying, you've got to like, do something incredible to get through the hurdles that I face.

00:24:39:27 - 00:24:55:15

I didn't know. And then when I started to speak to more people and sort of they were putting more doubts and fears into my into my head, saying it's impossible. Experienced people as well, people who were local to the country, what did that going to say to you? You're nuts. Don't do it. He didn't. He said, look out for the dangers and then left.

00:24:55:16 - 00:25:16:13

That incredible is the ability to continue to walk. But the dangers were sort of like drinking nomadic drift as gray wall, stagnant water dry. Well, snow is it's sandstorms. It was a big list. And it did it did put me off. Did you ask him why he never tried the fourth time? I didn't I didn't ask. But I think from the I think he suffered psychologically.

00:25:16:13 - 00:25:32:27

I think he was out there and it's just his mind. And then the dehydration on top of it, the desert just does something to your mindset when you're out. Then you've got to stay strong and remember your wife, which again, is great for business, right? In business, you're dealing with a lot of money. You're dealing with a lot of people, a lot of sort of decision makers on this big risks involved.

00:25:32:27 - 00:25:57:21

And it's easy to just sort of bail out when you could be so close to achieving something great. I watched I don't know the name of it. It's the night was the I've seen the new movie on Netflix. It's about night and how night is brand new this year made a decision and took a huge gamble because it was Nike sued place Converse and then Adidas and Nick were trying to be the top dogs for footwear.

00:25:57:21 - 00:26:18:24

But Nike at that point were just laughed at. It was like, you can't compete with Adidas and Converse. And they had this this vision of trying to get Michael Jordan on board a michael Jordan wasn't anything special, that he was just sort of this guy was a headhunter and he could see something in Michael Jordan. So he took a risk and he spent all of the budget that they had, which was $250,000.

00:26:18:24 - 00:26:35:01

And they normally split that amongst three players and the three players that they had left because Adidas and Converse, all the good ones up weren't that great. So he said, look, there's a guy that's showing big talent. Let's invest all the money in him. And the boss was like, No, we can't do that. It's ridiculous. And everyone was laughing.

00:26:35:01 - 00:26:54:10

WME management laughing at him and they ended up going ahead. A michael Jordan said no because why would you accept the same deal? And so what they ended up doing is given him an allocated percentage, which was the first time that was ever done from business to Athlete of Footwear ever sold. I think he got 1%. And we will create your own line and call them Air Jordans.

00:26:54:10 - 00:27:15:00

And he agreed to that. And within that first year they were hoping to make $3 million. They went on to make $400 million. And we have to Google this and watch check it out. I watched it the other night and I was like, wow, talk about business and taken risks. That was not just jump them right up. And right now they make 4 billion a year on just that.

00:27:15:00 - 00:27:38:21

Like just Air Jordan still to this day. Well, tell me, because you said a minute ago about obviously a parallels with business and not a not giving up. I guess, is the old expression in business of never giving up when you know the right time to give up is never, etc.. But I also believe from a business perspective that never give up until it actually is time to give up.

00:27:38:21 - 00:28:02:01

Yeah. And this is normally a mistake that I guess earlier state earlier stage business owners meant not necessarily early stages, but people who've never been through something utterly catastrophic and detrimental. And yet my, my, my back story involves a very spectacular bankruptcy. You know, 27, 28 years old. I actually look back now and think that I was I was lucky it happened to me.

00:28:02:01 - 00:28:29:27

Right. He didn't fit it at the time and didn't didn't feel it for a few years thereafter. But, you know, I always very much believe that you only learn from the things that go wrong, not from the things that go right. And it's these you know, it's these formative experiences that give us the knowledge we need. And often and particularly in business, because I always say that there's no there's no kind of schoolboy, okay, there's the money, but, you know, there's no skilled school board or let's say intelligence school board in business.

00:28:29:29 - 00:28:46:22

It's a kind of, you know, sort the wheat wheat from the chaff and, you know, someone who starts in business yesterday, today is a business owner. And they kind of in the deluded minds most of these people like, well, I own a business, therefore I'm a business owner. It's probably a bit of ego, a bit of pride and delusion.

00:28:46:22 - 00:28:59:28

But you know, the very afraid to go and ask for help and I guess ask for assistance from mentors was if that was a sport, if that was a sporting context, you wouldn't say, Oh, I bought a football for the first time yesterday and I'm going to go and have a kick around with the boys from Man City.

00:29:00:00 - 00:29:29:13

Yeah, it would just be completely obvious. You would never in your life be that. Never mind. Never mind tomorrow. Yeah. So these these things that go that these things that go wrong in business, you probably never get the chance to explore. Hopefully never get the chance to experience them. So what I find so often with with people is because because they've never gone wrong, they have the the, the fear factor, you know, the fear factor of, well, I've got to go down this route because, you know, if you've not experienced it, you don't have the certainty.

00:29:29:13 - 00:29:46:09

If you don't have the certainty, you don't have the confidence. I often deal with business owners who are blindly going down a path. And it sounds it sounds very as a heroic that, you know, they're never going to give up. But sometimes you put, you know, you push it too far. You've got to know when the end of the road is.

00:29:46:09 - 00:30:06:14

Yeah, I've got it with the client at the moment. You know, a guy, historically very successful guy with us with a fantastic business who's managed to absolutely wriggle it in debt. And it's got to a point now where he's hanging on for this one deal to happen, because if this one deal happens, it pays off the what has become literally tens of millions of pounds of debt to get him out of the hole.

00:30:06:14 - 00:30:39:20

But the problem is, every day that goes on waiting for this big deal to happen, he's causing irreparable damage to what is a core, decent, decent underlying business. Right. And I've been trying to say to him, right, we need to have a conversation so I can teach you how to take the good parts of the business that you've got left and effectively side sideline this over here and, you know, make sure you've got something that's protected so that when this new this new money doesn't come in, when this deal doesn't happen, you've got this business protected here because every week that goes on, you're doing more and more damage to the point that it will

00:30:39:20 - 00:31:03:11

ultimately be irrecoverable like you said. So what's your backup plan? I don't have a backup plan because this deal has to happen. This deal has to happen. Yeah, absolutely. I get it. Believe me, no one no one's more motivated and fearless in these business situations than I am. But sometimes you have to be. It has to be realistic and accept defeat on this a little bit, because otherwise you're never going to be in a position to actually actually keep this a move forward.

00:31:03:11 - 00:31:20:08

And I guess, you know, the analogy to that in the stuff you do is it's death, isn't it? You know, you push your push and push and push until you can't push. And when I've gone off on a very long rumble, I remember. But no, I mean, are there any circumstances that you can think of to draw some parallels from that?

00:31:20:08 - 00:31:36:24

Oh, yeah, plenty. Plenty. And I think even in the Gobi Desert, the way that I was pushing myself and it turned out to, you know, I was kind of competing with a speed allocate time that that wasn't there because with that it was just I was attempting to be the first person. It wasn't a race, it wasn't a speed record.

00:31:36:24 - 00:31:49:18

But I find myself rushing. I find myself making up my own timelines and I have to get to the next point before this date. And that was a load of Ballocks I didn't need to do that. I didn't need to compete with myself to that level, and I almost died because of it. And I learned a harsh lesson.

00:31:49:18 - 00:32:04:29

And then you know, after that, I started to top up more with my water. I started to take my time and listen more to my to my body, because if I did push and I was focused on speed record, then I would have died trying to do it and it would have been game over anyway. And same with the malaria one.

00:32:04:29 - 00:32:23:03

I guess listening to my body and having that plan B of okay, if tomorrow is is no better, I need to just hold my hands up, admit defeat. I get myself to the nearest city because what's the alternative, you know, is death. And that sounds like that is is business. What's the alternative? Is business is bankruptcy. And it's going to it's going to sell.

00:32:23:06 - 00:32:43:00

And I wonder if that comes through just doggedness or gambling too much and taking risk after risk after risk. Why hasn't he remedied? Is it because he continues to take the risks? You're asking me? Yeah. Well, as you know, it's not remedy we pick up because the daily, The daily things he's going to happen is absolute fairytale. It is the case.

00:32:43:03 - 00:32:58:11

It's never, never happening. And if he was, I wouldn't even say if he was more experienced if he was not emotionally attached to the situation that we're talking about, he would be able to like if you were telling him, if you were telling him that story and it was nothing to do with him, we said, Ash, you're fucking lunatic.

00:32:58:11 - 00:33:29:27

Why not do these never, ever, ever happening? But he is so invested and emotionally attached to this situation because if this deal doesn't happen, the knock on effects are so catastrophic, it's just making him have these these blinding glasses that the thing you think is going to happen. I saw a video of yours as well, actually, when you were talking about emotional and emotional attachment to two investments and you were saying it's important that you don't think on your emotions and you keep it separate, but it's also vitally important to have options.

00:33:30:03 - 00:33:48:00

I think it was the your place in Dubai that you put an offer into. You rested for seven, eight weeks and just let it let it go by. You gave a great offer and you wait to hear back. And they were given counteroffers and you were like, No, the offer is as it stands. But at the same time, whilst that was a great deal, if you took that, that would be a huge win.

00:33:48:00 - 00:34:07:05

I remember you said you had like six or seven, maybe eight different. You say that you had no emotions tied in with that offer that you really wanted because you've given yourself other opportunities and options. Absolutely. And I guess fleshing that out, what I always say is that I think the best negotiating tactic is preparation and multiple options.

00:34:07:05 - 00:34:25:23

And you, in your pipeline and I always say that, you know, I don't think I'm a great negotiator. Some people may say that I am because of some of the deals have done, but I'm not one of these guys who you can have clever lingo mumbo jumbo and, you know, necessarily all's people ask if I've only if I've only got one option.

00:34:26:00 - 00:34:55:08

And in my strategy, which I really believe can be applied by anyone, because all it takes is is is hard work and preparation is to make sure you've got a big pipeline, whether that's for sales, whether it's whether it's for buying something. So when you talk about my apartments in Dubai where, you know, I was totally emotionally attached to it because I knew that if I didn't if that one didn't sell to me and I've already lined up six or seven or eight other ones, you know, when I went to buy my boat, yeah, I identified the boat that I wanted or the model of boat that I wanted.

00:34:55:08 - 00:35:16:00

I could have quite happily not had. I wanted to buy it, but I could have quite happily not had it. And I went and found ten people who were all selling the same boat and then went to offer every one of them. Yeah. 50% of the asking price. Right. So for me, it's the world's simplest negotiating strategy because it ultimately relies on catch you catching the right person on the right.

00:35:16:07 - 00:35:32:27

Yeah. My ex-wife, she always used to ring me up. She said, I found this horse I want to buy. I want to buy for our daughter. You're good at negotiating. Ring them up and I'd make them sell it to us for cheaper. Yeah, I always used to say, you know, I don't have some magic trick. You know, I can't make someone sell something for less than they want to sell it for.

00:35:33:01 - 00:35:48:06

You know, you can only get something that's a particular price when there's a willing buyer and a willing seller, you know, at a at a mutually agreed price price on a particular day, You know, if you want ten grand for it and you don't need to take less than ten grand, I only want to pay for seven grass to pay seven grand.

00:35:48:09 - 00:36:02:03

I can use all the answer in the world, but it's just not happening. What I need to do is I need to find ten of you because there will be one of you. Or maybe tends to smaller number. Maybe it's 20, maybe. But certainly that's why, you know, that's why I would say the efforts, the efforts done at the beginning.

00:36:02:05 - 00:36:20:16

You put your effort in the beginning. Yeah. Back end looks easy. If I've got ten of you or 20 or 30 of you lined up, that will be one of you who's just had a credit card bill dropped this morning or who's just, you know, the missus needs to leave you all or whatever those circumstances are that are going to put him in a tougher financial position than you yet, or you're just about to go on your next adventure.

00:36:20:16 - 00:36:39:16

So you think, fuck, I could do with a bit of cash and that's it. And that's and that's that's the only way you can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I remember seeing that video and actually took inspiration of that for TV, for TV shows, because I found myself constantly focusing on one channel that channels Channel four in the UK with Mongolia.

00:36:39:16 - 00:37:05:06

And we, you know, we were unsuccessful. We didn't get that on any TV platform. But I went again with Madagascar and we were on six unsuccessful with that. We didn't get any TV platform and I remember it. I don't regret it, but I do remember looking and constantly pushing and fighting for a TV channel, you know, in the UK, predominantly Channel four, because I had some competition that was on Channel four and I fought my expeditions, stood out more.

00:37:05:06 - 00:37:19:21

I thought my personality was better, you know, And I saw the stories and the engagements that I had with the locals would interest the audience more than sort of his stories and his engagements, because he is a man of very few words. And so I was like, What is this? What is the deal? And so that really frustrated me.

00:37:19:21 - 00:37:37:17

And it was up until the yangzi where then I was really focused in on just a number of different UK channels, but it was only now the Great Wall where I thought, Fuck it, I don't I any channel is good. International or UK, it doesn't matter. And it was only when I thought, you know, fuck it, it doesn't matter.

00:37:37:19 - 00:37:57:06

That's a Channel four or really interested in taking this show. And I'm like, Wow, isn't it weird how I was so strung up on emotionally attached to one specific channel, whereas there's hundreds of thousands of channels all over the world, you know, bigger channels as well. I get bigger views, but UK is my home country. Channel four is the one that I really wanted to to look into.

00:37:57:07 - 00:38:14:26

And it's only when I just let go of all of that and opened myself to all the rest of the channels that they come float in it and potentially close to. It's taken it. Fingers crossed. Touchwood I was just like, wow. And I remember seeing that that clip that it was probably only a few months ago right? And I just yeah, it was the same with me.

00:38:14:26 - 00:38:34:14

Don't take things personally for rejections from different sponsors. Don't get so caught up on working with a specific brand or a specific TV channel because there's so many opportunities out there. But I wasn't opening up those opportunities because I was so fixated, focused on what I was missing, all the noise around me. I mean, that's such a good analogy.

00:38:34:14 - 00:38:54:13

I think the step further, I'll go on that as well for anyone, anyone who's got their own, let's say, US style adventure, I something that they want to do is in today's world. Now if you can't so yet don't concentrate on TV channel concentrate on 1020 5000 Yeah and if of those want you while all the platforms are out there for you to do it yourself.

00:38:54:13 - 00:39:10:21

Yeah. And there's two and there's there's more than one way to skin a cat. And if no one else will hire you, then go and find the sponsors or find the budget or do it some other way and go, go and create, you know, create your adventure, create your personality on YouTube, on Instagram, on how on however you're going to do it.

00:39:10:21 - 00:39:30:29

Because you can either build a big enough audience to monetize yourself there any way or be, you know, let's let your product do the talking and, you know, don't be so emotionally attached and ask you about, Oh, Channel four, don't want me to go out, go out there and show Channel four what the mission exactly created on YouTube, build the markets and then you know what channel four come back.

00:39:30:29 - 00:39:49:09

They can come back with a tail between their legs and pay you more money, right? Yeah, exactly that. Exactly that. So, no, that is that is vital. And it's interesting because you learn so many lessons as you go through life in general. You know me. Yes. For adventure. But I've learned so much through business as well because it is 50% adventure and 50% business.

00:39:49:11 - 00:40:07:06

It's not all on one, you know, because in order to be able to do these adventures, you have to be linked in with business. Otherwise it's it's literally just a hobby. And that's fine too. But it was the sake of it for me. It was this or back to working in a fish and chip shop or it was this or back to work.

00:40:07:06 - 00:40:24:03

And as a scuba diver in Thailand, like three or £400 a month. And so that's why I really focused so much on this. But then I've learned so much during the process, you know, and that's what I love. You kind of do whatever career path you own. It's never just a straightforward, as you like to believe. There's so many things intertwined into that, right?

00:40:24:03 - 00:40:40:14

We've had to deal with different book publishing agents and speak in agencies and you know how to build a brand and how to market. It all ties in and I love it. I have grown to love it. And now I have a healthier sort of mindset when it comes to finance because of it because yes, it's taken hard work.

00:40:40:14 - 00:41:02:10

Yes, I had to, you know, really suffer. But it's all coming together now. Talk to me about death. About death. So obviously, when I was listening, listening to some stuff about this morning, you know, you've mentioned a couple of times of, you know, various situations you've been in where you thought you thought that could have been the ideal.

00:41:02:12 - 00:41:22:26

And too many times that's probably one of the few only few things that scared, you know, scares me. I mean, obviously very scared of snakes or whatever, but, you know, like really in terms of something, something truly scary, you know, for me is death. And I guess because it comes with that fear of the unknown, I mean, it's the ultimate fear of the unknown.

00:41:22:27 - 00:41:38:15

As you know, I describe my ability to control stress by the fact that I always say if I look at any individual thing, I say to myself, is it going to bankrupt me or is it going to kill me? And if the answer to the question is no to either of those, I said, Well, do I give a fuck?

00:41:38:15 - 00:41:53:15

You know what? What, what, what is this? What is it to be stressed about? Yes. So true. A lot of people struggle with out there, right? Yeah, completely. And having been through the bankruptcy thing, I also know that that isn't isn't intense. But having been through it, I've got the kind of, I guess, you know, the knowledge and skills to deal with it.

00:41:53:15 - 00:42:14:24

But, you know, there is no one yet who can come back and tell us. Tell it. Tell us what it's like to be dead. Yeah, but I guess I only talk about it from the situation of knowing that at some point I will die and not fancying it you've stared down the barrel of the gun, probably literally as well, as well as well as figuratively, multiple times, I guess.

00:42:14:26 - 00:42:35:03

Questions. What does it feel like? How do you motivate yourself to go on? Did you really think you were going to die? Were you scared? I don't know. Just told me. Yeah, maybe give an exact story to people. Yeah, I will. Because it's funny, because I've experienced, you know, near death a number of occasions. I know that it comes in a number of different forms.

00:42:35:08 - 00:42:52:16

You know, the feelings and the thoughts surrounding whatever situation that you're in. Like catching malaria was totally different to what I thought and I felt in the Gobi Desert where I was alone and there was no person and I knew that death was certain if I didn't make it. Malaria was one of those where I had guides with me.

00:42:52:16 - 00:43:10:02

I could communicate with people and I didn't realize it, but I was very quickly dying a lot more rapidly than my time in the Gobi Desert, but I just didn't know it. And I felt safer because I was going to say so. But you didn't know at the time you were dying. It was just when you heard from the doctors afterwards what was going on.

00:43:10:02 - 00:43:29:06

I didn't even know it was a disease. Didn't even know I had malaria. I could just feel my my body dying. Yeah, I think is the best way to put it. And when I say dying, I could feel myself going deeper and deeper into this agonizing pain and then almost into a more of a numbing pain which sent me into delirium.

00:43:29:06 - 00:43:48:14

You know, it was I was pretty delirious. I started to sort of hallucinate. It was so not necessarily objects, but voices in my head. And I tell you one scary example is the morning where I called it quits and I said, I need to I need to get to the nearest city because this isn't dehydration. This is some form of disease of some kind.

00:43:48:14 - 00:44:07:18

I woke up in the morning and there was about a 45 minute mental battle. I just saw boots on the side and I needed to get my water. But I was also exhausted and I was fought and I was drifting off to sleep, dozing off, and I could hear two voices in my head, scarily enough. And one voice was, I remember it just whispered, Call me, you know, just do nothing.

00:44:07:18 - 00:44:25:06

Go to sleep. It will be a painless death. There's no feeling you won't feel it at all. Who's like your voice or just an inner voice? Yeah, just an inner, inner voice. Because my head was scrambled. And then the other voice. The voice that made me sit up was screaming like, Get up, get out of here now, or you're going to die.

00:44:25:06 - 00:44:38:06

And it was that voice that was louder. It is almost like you can imagine lines that with negative and positive thoughts and how you should always listen to the positive because a negative, it's never going to do you any good. In that case, it was very real and it was the positive that set me up. I jumped water.

00:44:38:06 - 00:45:01:28

I told my guide, I need local transport now, and when I say this, it was all very slow, weak, like painful movements. We got transport I arrived in into the because I was effectively quarantined because they didn't know what kind of disease I had. They took my blood and they came back and said, You've got full support. And if you were only 3 hours later, bearing in mind I was trekking and had the disease in my system for five days and it usually kills you within 24 hours.

00:45:01:28 - 00:45:20:19

If you were 3 hours longer, you would have potentially slipped into a coma and therefore died. And that was when I was like, Whoa. So that only dawned on me there. And then like, Holy shit, I was actually dying. I could have died a few hours later. All traffic in the road, you know, whatever it might be. It was a good six hour drive to the hotel.

00:45:20:20 - 00:45:37:15

Punctured tire. That's all it could. It took two to finish me off. Was in the Gobi. I knew I was dying. And those. There was no way around that. I missed the point of pick up. I was thinking about my friends. I was. How did you get out of that? But I. I walked. There was no other option other than to walk my way out of it.

00:45:37:15 - 00:45:55:03

And so because the point of pick up, if I pressed the evacuation or it wasn't evacuation side invalid insurance and I couldn't afford no helicopter pick up my previous it was text only on an in rich explorer to my guide and it would take him at least 3 to 4 days to get to me if he found me on time.

00:45:55:06 - 00:46:13:15

And that's a bit questionable. And then another two days for him to get me to safety. And I honestly at that point didn't believe I could survive six days. So what kept you walking? I think it was a couple of things. I remember at one point feeling sorry for myself, hiding under my trailer for an hour at a time.

00:46:13:20 - 00:46:34:28

You know, it was 40 degrees Celsius. It was a 120 kilogram trailer that I was pulling from soft sand, which meant the wheels would dig into the into the sand, making it feel like 500 kilograms. There was no breeze, no natural shelter. My organs were almost drying up. And I had these sort of the last remaining dribbles of water at this point when the well was dry.

00:46:35:00 - 00:46:52:18

Well that was meant to be my, my pick up for extra water. And that's when I realized I hadn't seen anyone at that point for five days. No single human realized that at that point. I've missed the point. A bucket. I was delirious, hallucinating again in a bad way, just dark. I remember self filming, filming my my time.

00:46:52:18 - 00:47:10:04

And I've never shared those clips with any. And I think there was some clips that I deleted because I just didn't want anyone to see what I was saying. Oh, we, we scared or we so we kind of so fuck to the because I'm sure sure think of some Yeah. So some other subtitles for the rest of the world and business.

00:47:10:04 - 00:47:26:21

And I guess in those circumstances you've probably so fucked as well that you kind of can't, can't think, you know, kind of can't think anything. Anyway, with malaria, I was, I remember with malaria, the point that I got into the hotel, I collapsed on the bed and everyone was just spinning. I saw two doctors above me. Their heads were spinning.

00:47:26:21 - 00:47:45:21

At that point, I didn't really feel much pain, so I didn't really know, you know, how close I was to potential death. But the Gobi Desert, I felt every every inch that I walked and I was super wet whilst my head was still scrambled. I could just feel all the pain. But yeah, fuck. It was it was pretty brutal.

00:47:45:23 - 00:48:00:14

The desert. But then there's a time where I was held up at gunpoint and that was a different scenario. That was me overthinking. Like he could just shoot me and kill me right now. And that's different to being in the Gobi Desert. It's different to face and hypothermia as well, which I have faced hypothermia, and that is more numbing.

00:48:00:14 - 00:48:26:21

That is where I had to keep my body alive. I was shaking it and I that was a fight where I realized I cannot sleep. I could feel my body about to faint and I had to shake my body. I had to stay awake. I always had to fake a fight this this fainting feeling. And so I think in the face of death, I think there's that internal survival instinct that everyone has and will fight.

00:48:26:21 - 00:48:49:14

They just don't realize it until they face it. And I think maybe that is the equivalent potentially that you can put towards business, right? When you can see it really going into the shitter, you can think and plan all you like about what might happen or how you might react. But it's only when you're days away from the business go bang or you know, you'll know more how to explain it.

00:48:49:18 - 00:49:18:29

Then you know what you're sort of made of. Pull different contacts, I'm sure I'm trying to think of. So try to think of things as robot where you talk. I think it was just funny, wasn't it? Because I mean, I always give the give give the death and bankruptcy analogies and parallels. Yeah. But then I also think when you going to die as a human will immediately lose all our ego when we all, after I will, will will do anything you know will ask for any help, will give anything away, will cry, scream, beg, beg, kill, steal whatever we need to do.

00:49:18:29 - 00:49:46:27

Yes, I do fail in the business world that that bankruptcy death could be avoided so many more times if people would apply the same logic that they would if they were going to die as a person and put the pride to one side, put their ego to one side to treat it with more severity, and as well not so much the severity say because you probably know the severity, but it's like, you know, still not wanting, wanting to ask for help or still think, you know, thinking that they know best in a particular situation.

00:49:47:00 - 00:50:04:06

I don't know like if you're if you're underwater, scuba diving and you're and you're a novice scuba diver and you tanks fuck it up or you hyperventilating or something, you know, you would think it's completely normal to ask the scuba instructor, you know, like, what do I do? Yeah, calm me down. Help me, you know, keep me alive.

00:50:04:06 - 00:50:19:23

I mean, I mean, the only thought is going to be in your head, isn't it? You know, when. When you've got going back to that thing I was saying earlier about how there's almost like. No, no levels for business, you know? No, no scoreboard, if you like that when someone's got a life and death business problem. It's just like I said, intellectually.

00:50:19:23 - 00:50:37:20

Yeah. I'm asking you, I'm a businessman, I'm a business owner. I know what I'm talking about. I can find my way through this. Yeah, Yeah. Interesting. It is interesting, isn't it? Because, say, if you've got a family and you do face bankruptcy, it depends on if people have a back up and have those funds whereby they can start up another business.

00:50:37:20 - 00:50:56:06

Because you do hear that, I think I hear that from yourself as well, that you could take everything away from you now finance wise, but you will be able to find a way because no one can take your brain away, right? No one can take the knowledge of how you can make money, make this for you. And so with businessmen, do they let it get to that point of bankruptcy?

00:50:56:06 - 00:51:13:25

Because they believe they can just do it again? And whereas with me face in the near death, once I'm dead, I'm dead. There's no second chance. I mean, I think I probably would think, no, I'm a totally agree what you're saying there, because obviously something I've said myself, I think in business, you know, normally people I guess like life and death.

00:51:13:25 - 00:51:35:05

The only people only ever hit that stage once, you know, once, if ever in the life. So I guess it's not like, oh, I've been bankrupt. Therefore, I, I know that I'm, I can make my money back. So, so I'm not scared about I mean, I can say that because I have been bankrupt yet, but I guess if I hadn't been bankers, I'm probably thinking I would I would rather not, you know, rather not go bankrupt.

00:51:35:07 - 00:51:51:23

And I guess, you know, the same would apply to you in that. Why you not scared to go elsewhere? Well, I'm not scared of business. I'm not scared if I get a batch of 100 documents from someone suing me. I'm not scared about any of this stuff because. Because I know I've been there before. I've experienced it before.

00:51:51:23 - 00:52:09:00

I know the right people to help me. I know what the process is. Therefore, I know every step, you know, step of potential future outcomes. And if the worst, worst, worst, worst happens, I know that I can wake up, wake up tomorrow with, you know, with with no money. And. Okay, I'm not saying I want to obviously rather wake up in my house, in my car with a voice.

00:52:09:00 - 00:52:25:20

But if I had to wake up tomorrow, I know I've got the skill sets and the network to be able to go make money again and start getting start getting paid again. So that's why I've got no fear in any of those situations. I would assume it's the same for you in your situations that you know you're not scared to climb Everest or you won't.

00:52:25:20 - 00:52:46:05

You, the youngster, whatever it may be, because because you know that extreme, extreme heat like this, extreme cold like that, if someone attacks me, I can fight or, you know, whatever, whatever, just through steps and building up those track habits, I think. And that's often why people say so in Mongolia, you almost died. Why would you even contemplate Madagascar?

00:52:46:05 - 00:53:03:05

Is that all? Because I didn't die and I managed to get myself out of that scenario. I survived it. Therefore I'm able to go again because I know about I will never be dehydrated again. Yes, a different challenge might come just as business is always never the same. Same challenges, different challenges. And then with Madagascar, it was malaria.

00:53:03:05 - 00:53:19:20

But I knew why and how. I think it's more the unknown that scares me the most. It's like with Mongolia. I knew that a well could be dry. I knew that I had confirmed and confirmed water sources mapped on the map. Yes, that was my fuck up, but I won't fuck up like that again. And it's the same with malaria.

00:53:19:21 - 00:53:43:06

Yes. I was taken anti-malaria medication to prevent malaria, which covers you only 80%. But I ate a dodgy eel which gave me diarrhea. The pill went in one way out the other. Malaria got a hold of me, but I was still fighting it with the anti-malaria slightly, hence why I survived five days and not one day. And so next time eat proper food, drink lots of water, don't eat a dodgy eel and that I wouldn't have contracted.

00:53:43:06 - 00:54:02:23

So it's through experiences and track habits that you build up. You become more you have a greater understanding of your capabilities, right? And know how to experience different things. And that's why I'm able to then go off again and do bigger, bigger, better, more ambitious sort of expedition time and time again. It's because I'm always learning and I'm never trying to make the same mistake twice.

00:54:02:27 - 00:54:22:29

So when when you and I first met in it was in October. It was October 2020. That's right. Yeah. Well, for the podcast, yes, that's where we first of all, it's October 20, I think it was actually July 2020. Now, I'll tell you why. It wasn't because about ten days after you and I met, I climbed Kilimanjaro. Got you.

00:54:23:01 - 00:54:46:06

Okay. Nice. Which I did. I remember that. So it may have been the very end of September, but I climbed Kili in October. So you and I'm very into that very, very beginning. Yeah. And so. So I guess not that I can talk with with any experience like you having done something now I can I can relate to some of the bits you say, but I made a note of a few things that you said this morning.

00:54:46:06 - 00:55:06:01

Yeah. Which all I think you have time for anyone wanting to do something you said about the importance between mental and physical, and that the 70% of anyone trying to achieve something is mindset. You know, the other 30% is physical. You said, you know, we're far more capable than we give ourselves credit for. So we've all got the ability to shoot high, but most people just don't.

00:55:06:01 - 00:55:22:18

And you know, those who talk about it but never do it and people fail at the first step. So a few different but but related things. And it all kind of resonated very much with me with the commitment with the Kilimanjaro trip, where you're looking back at it now, listen to it. I will say it was very tough.

00:55:22:18 - 00:55:44:13

And I'm sure you know, I'm sure you wouldn't anyone wouldn't find that a walk in the park no matter how fit you are. Yeah, but I look back at that as an experience and very much so that anyone who's got two arms and two legs, the work Well, as long as you've got no health issues, I fail to believe that anyone with the right mindset can't can't get up there, right?

00:55:44:13 - 00:56:10:07

Yes, Yes. As a challenge. It's something that 0.0001% of the world, world have done and is looked at as something super difficult, you know, super, super, super high energy. And we can do exactly that. And it just really resonated with me as opposed as to, you know, the importance of that mindset. I mean, I know, you know, when I did it, you know, I, I agreed in a drunken dinner in July with a friend that was JP said he was climbing it.

00:56:10:07 - 00:56:37:02

And I said, Oh, yeah, so I'll come along with you, do it. You know, I got caught COVID, so I was bedridden for a few weeks, so I never got to train to train. Yeah, I bought some boots that didn't fit. So. So I mean, literally by by the time I got to the I got to base camp to actually start to do it, I think I'd climbed two of the three Yorkshire peaks and the only reason I hadn't done the third one is because on the second one a bloody bus my ankles so, so I couldn't carry on.

00:56:37:02 - 00:56:56:15

So it was hardly a great training experience. Yeah. But I tell all of that not to say in a story of so great you can climb a mountain without doing any training. I say that if I can climb a mountain without doing any training, then anybody else in physical, you know, in a safe physical condition, if they do the same to the right mindset.

00:56:56:15 - 00:57:14:24

And it was it really resonated with me how much it's just such a such a mindset thing. Yeah, 100%. I think a lot of people are way more capable than they give themselves credit for, and they write themselves off too soon. You know what motivates me as well as seem seeing other people do these crazy challenges like Mike Horn in his fifties is like jacked.

00:57:14:24 - 00:57:38:20

He's ripped six pack circumnavigated the planet five both poles on motorized you know walking through the fucking the North Pole in the winter permanent dark And he's had a polar bear sit on him as he has to cover his own mouth and nose as it was rummaging through his sledge. So we had to be super silent. Turano finds in his early seventies, I think it was who run the marathon disables like a marathon in the desert over 50 degrees Celsius.

00:57:38:22 - 00:57:53:16

So I look at that sort shit and I'm like on myself, I'm useful, I train hard. I've got a good mindset. Of course I can do this or I can do that Well, I like to think that I can, and then I go out and try because there's always people out there doing fucking crazy things. And I take inspiration from these people.

00:57:53:19 - 00:58:13:01

And not only that, I take inspiration from so many people going against the odds and achieving time and time again. I take inspiration from myself as well. You know, I follow you your stories, I follow your social media, and it's almost like different people who have faced difficult times, whether that's bankruptcy or whether that's hurdles or even physical challenges.

00:58:13:01 - 00:58:35:08

Like you hear people summiting Everest with one leg, you know, all of this crazy stuff and I think it's people going against the odds, picking themselves up and doing it anyway will get them to pick themselves up when they're at their absolute rock bottom is just fucking inspiring and I think is what also feeds my mindset. I don't just sort of try to motivate myself.

00:58:35:08 - 00:58:54:18

I seek inspiration from many people, from all sort of different walks of life, different business, different categories, because there's people doing fucking bonkers shit all the time, every day, I think as well. That's what. Why so important to surround yourself by the right people as well. Because you say we don't give ourselves enough credit for what we're capable of.

00:58:54:24 - 00:59:18:06

I actually pretty go further than that and say we probably once did give ourselves credit for it. We just allow the negative people around us to talk us out of it and to tell us it can't be done. And in the same way that, you know, I've been have been surrounded by four or five positive people or four or five people, you know, with a six pack is going to get you a six pack or four or five people to scale the mountain or probably get you somewhere to scaling.

00:59:18:06 - 00:59:37:12

A mountain has been surrounded by all the negative people that say, I can't do it. You've got, you know, laughing you down. Talking it down is ultimately, you know what you know, chips away and makes you think it's inverted, commas, normal. You know what's normal? What everybody else has already told us. Yeah. And I think we we've got to cut those people out.

00:59:37:13 - 00:59:58:25

I cut my old friends out of my life in terms of hanging around with them often because, you know, late high school and in college it was that mindset, it was that mindset of, you know, go to college, go to university, do a 9 to 5, you know, pay bills struggling to get by. But that's life. We accept it, you know, stuck in the matrix type of mentality.

00:59:58:27 - 01:00:17:12

And any time I would put out a great idea or a very different suggestion, it would get shut down and you'd get laughter. And I was thinking my ideas and sort of vision is so wasted on these people and I had to cut them out. If you had to have that conversation, if you had the conversation, did you just cut them out?

01:00:17:12 - 01:00:42:04

Or if you actually ever had that conversation with someone to say, you know, we're going in different directions, You know, you're holding me back? Yeah, I didn't say you hold me back. But I do remember one of the final days that I hung round with them as a as a whole found we were doing the same thing. We would go to college, then we would go to to my friend's house and we would just linger in his attic room, drinking beer, talking rubbish, boxing gloves, fighting, you know, all of that sort of stuff.

01:00:42:04 - 01:00:57:18

And we were doing that almost every other day because we didn't have anything better to do. We were in Wales and we weren't that adventurous as a group. Surprisingly, we were more into all sports and every time I would say, Let's go to Gwrych Castle at Summit Everest, I was snowed in or something like that. I would just be shut down.

01:00:57:18 - 01:01:14:02

And it got to one point where it got so much. I said, Look, listen, I can't I can't do this anymore. I'm not doing this whereby I come round, I hang with you. We talk about the same shit all day, every day. Who's kissed, who, who had the latest fight, All of this garbage. I need to do my own thing.

01:01:14:08 - 01:01:37:18

I have some good visions. I need to tackle them. And I remember that was one of the last days. And now after that, I think it was the next day I started up boxing. I put my call on for sale. I had this plan to travel and was now tackling different ways where I could make money. I was lifeguard and I was waiting on and I was working at a fish and chip shop in Wales and it was the one of the single best things I ever did.

01:01:37:18 - 01:01:52:20

And this perfect example, I just cut them out that there's still a few that I meet up with and I talk to who was still friends, but I'll meet them once a while rather than like the group. Yeah, and I think that was the yeah, the best thing I did because then I really stuck and I, I probably move things forward.

01:01:52:21 - 01:02:09:20

What would have usually took me five years with that. So if I stayed on track and wasn't sort of demotivated from hanging with the what would it take? Taken five years hanging with them. I did it like a year and a half. Have you seen any of them take inspiration from you and kind of better better their lives in any way?

01:02:09:22 - 01:02:23:15

I think so, yeah. I think I have not directly they've not said it directly, but they will write in common every now and then and they will be nice about it. You know, I'm proud of you. And out of the group we hung hung with, you know, it was always you that was going to go on to do big things.

01:02:23:15 - 01:02:41:03

So they said nice things. And I guess they're at that part of their life where they do look back and they do reflect and hopefully they don't have any regrets because, you know, each to their own for I think maybe they do look and see. He needed to understand why he needed to get out and do his thing, because he needed to go there to get where he is now.

01:02:41:03 - 01:03:02:21

And we were probably holding them back. Tell me the first journey or some of the journeys you did. You did. You did with a partner. Yes. And then I think ultimately he decided that the younger one was a step too far to Mongolia. Mongolia was a step too far, and you kind of separated. So talk to me about that partnership.

01:03:02:21 - 01:03:21:01

And obviously, it's a leading question against, you know, slinging it back to a business, a business type analogy, because I guess, you know, for me in business, you cannot you cannot offer the right partner. Well, one plus one equals three. Yes. You know, you've got you've got the wrong partner where it's taking you backwards or almost as bad as taking it backwards.

01:03:21:01 - 01:03:42:25

You know, you just you're almost like Siamese twins, who neither of you bring anything different to the equation. You know, you just both end up, you know, splitting, I guess. Splitting the pie. Yeah. I mean, what what was what was your partnership like? Yeah, it was it was a good it was a great partnership towards the beginning where we were doing these adventures and travels for pure love and passion of it.

01:03:42:27 - 01:04:01:12

Because this guy, I would throw an idea out, it was Matt Norman. I felt like a great idea his way. Let's cycle Vietnam on £10 bicycle, for example, and if I was most of my other friends, they would have said no to that. Whereas he was like, Oh, okay, I like the sound of that. He would go with it. He was a friend from from, from Life Gone, and he was also next door neighbor.

01:04:01:12 - 01:04:20:20

Yeah. And so we saved the money. We worked hard together. We raised the cash that we needed to then leave at the age of 90 and any sort of idea because the ideas were always sort of springboard it off off of me, because I would have this sort of vision whereby I wanted to get off the tourist route and visit the locals and learn about the culture, the traditions and about myself, and do these adventures.

01:04:20:20 - 01:04:36:20

And each adventure that I suggested he was, he was up for it. And I also suggested, how about we do a scuba diving qualifications, work and live in Thailand? And he also agreed. And he did that too. And he was living in Thailand and then he could see that I was neglect for a good year whereby I was talking about more adventure swim.

01:04:36:20 - 01:04:55:24

And at this point he was quite happy, quite content. You he was living in Thailand, he was learning the Thai language. He found a second home and I could see that he wasn't as enthusiastic as me any more. So these later adventures and then I came up with this. Took a while, but I came up with this idea about Mongolia and I started to do my research.

01:04:55:24 - 01:05:26:12

I run it by Mats, and my first was like, Yeah, that sounds good. I don't think he thought that I would actually do it. He probably thought this is another one of Ash's crazy ideas, but the more I looked into it, the more excited I became. And when I realized it would be recorded, well, first I then started to talk to him about the business side of that, saying, Look, man, if we are the first recorded people ever to do, Mongolia will be down in the history books, you know, we'll be fucking publishing books, will be in the newspapers, magazines will turn into a courier, you know, by enthusiastic sort of 21 year old, as

01:05:26:12 - 01:05:44:12

I was at the time when I was planning. And I think he was just like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be that would be cool. And I had this sort of blueprint of potentially how we could make this big. And then one night I remember stormy Night in the hostel stay like an 18 bed dormitory. That's all we could afford, even though we were stoked as another saying it's going to be fucking dangerous though.

01:05:44:19 - 01:06:06:24

And I was telling her about the wolves and I was like, Imagine being in your tents, thundering outside a pack of wolves. They howling surrounding your tent with a fucking knife and a torch. She said Sweating is cold, -20. And that next day he just never mentioned anything of it. Every time I would suggest, you know, we ready to move on to next steps, he would just be like, and then I could.

01:06:06:24 - 01:06:30:19

I realized then I had scared him mentally to the point that he didn't want to do it. But then I later learned that that's the best thing you could possibly do. And then people who would want to join me on future adventures, I would tell them the best things about. I would tell them the highlights. I would force them to visualize the dark most terrifying shit is times that will happen when they're with me.

01:06:30:19 - 01:06:53:06

And if they were put off. Amazing, because when you joined me you would have bailed or been evacuated or would have died, whereas if they weren't put out and they still had this enthusiasm, I know that. Wow. Okay. Amazing. They they are going to be great. It's funny you say that because it's making me think now as well about about hiring people in business, you're always taught to sell the company and sell, sell, sell the benefits of company.

01:06:53:06 - 01:07:23:08

Tell them all the good things to to to make them want to come work. You and you know, it was actually JP who was doing a talk for my team back in December. We were talking about values and it was a it was a big it's kind of a big turning point for me where I realized, you know, the problem, the reason I've got a problem with so many so many situations, so many members of staff, is because I've never laid out my values to them and almost just expect them to know what they are biased by seeing me.

01:07:23:11 - 01:07:44:16

So what we then did is I went to over Christmas and I wrote what is my kind of values and pillar document of, you know, these are 14 or 15 of them on that. You know, these are my values, these are my expectations. You know, about about how I behave and therefore how we behave as a business. And therefore, that's how I want you to behave, because I've never if I've never told you that from the outset, how can I I'll call them blaming and bollocking for it afterwards.

01:07:44:16 - 01:08:03:09

But, you know, now we're very clear about it from the beginning. So if I say I don't know, you expect today to be proactive or entrepreneurial or, you know, we love to work at 11:00 at night on a Sunday, If I've never told you that before, then how can they expect you? But now I have told you so if you come and you don't do it, then I've got every right to follow you.

01:08:03:09 - 01:08:17:27

And I guess it's it's it's just the same with that really is if you only tell everyone the good the good stuff then yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think it goes one step further to say that when a UK photographer came out, he flew out from the UK to China to join me for three weeks on the Yangtze, he hiked.

01:08:17:27 - 01:08:34:24

We were met by a landslide and I said to him, Look, this is a pretty dangerous land landslide. No way around it. The mountain range is too big. We could detour, but I would add three days and I've already got a year along. It only add days if I can help it. And I gave him two different options of how we can cross that.

01:08:34:24 - 01:08:48:13

And I said, Get rid of all your ego, get rid of your pride. You know, there's no ego out here. It's life or death. It's not a case of winning or losing. I want you to scout those locations. I'm going to leave you to it. I'm going to, like, go off the 10 minutes and leave you of your own thoughts.

01:08:48:13 - 01:09:05:21

And I need you to come and tell me whether you feel you're capable and confident enough to be able to tackle one of the two. And I was like, And don't lie to me, because when we are halfway over the landslide, if I then see on your face, which I will, that you can't, there's no turning back. I'll be leaving you with the wolves.

01:09:05:25 - 01:09:25:01

Yeah. I didn't like he it was so bad, the landslide that he almost couldn't to do a 180 and go back. That's how sketchy this was. And I left him for 10 minutes. And whatever decision he makes is the right decision. I would go because I don't know his capabilities. I know he came back and he said, no, the risks are too big.

01:09:25:02 - 01:09:38:26

And that was day one, 6 hours into day one when he was supposed to join me for three weeks and he made the right choice. I was like, Yeah, let's let's go back and send you on your way back to the UK. And we did, because it's at that point where you really got to lay it out for them.

01:09:38:26 - 01:09:53:26

And they can only tell you from that point whether they can do what you've set for them or whether they can't. And he had a wife and a kid back at home as well. So the risks were just simply too big. And I kind of left on him, which was good because I don't know anyone else's capabilities that join me.

01:09:53:26 - 01:10:16:11

And I think ten of the 16 people that joined me were evacuated. They got to a point where I just put a stop on the expedition. No one could join me because I often forget. And, you know, for business, I was kind of I didn't give myself credit for what I've achieved and experienced. Therefore, I would just let people join like, Yeah, yeah, course, it's only like sort of hiking, but it's survival, you know, watch out for the wolves and bears and straight away that's enough to free people, you know how to, you know, it.

01:10:16:11 - 01:10:35:18

It's, it's like me trying to join them as a photographer and like trying to keep up as a pro photographers. I don't know what they would was they were they were in my industry then and they were kind of like, tell me, where's where's Matty now you're Old Navy. Matt is living in South Wales, I believe now he is.

01:10:35:18 - 01:10:51:02

He's gone through a number of different jobs recently. I believe now he is helping to maintain and make products for yachts. We still friends. Still friends. Yeah. He's married now. He met his girlfriend in Hong Kong on the app Bumble, which he recommended to me, and he's now married, living, living in Wales. But he was a yacht master.

01:10:51:02 - 01:11:08:27

He was sort of he's got so much stories himself. He was sort of traveling South East Asia. He had to fight off pirates, Filipino pirates. He saw volcanoes like a does. Does he have any regrets? Does he does he feel that he should have continued on the journey with you? It's he puppy watching you? And I don't know.

01:11:08:27 - 01:11:27:00

I at this point, now that he's married and settled, I reckon the regrets have gone, if he had any. But there were times where, you know, it really sort of blew up for me and he was mentioned and obviously all of my podcasts, I credit him for being a part of the early journeys from the age of 19 to to 2122.

01:11:27:00 - 01:11:45:17

And I think maybe there was always the underlying question of what if I continued with Ash? But then he didn't have he's not entrepreneurial thinking, so he's not the type that would pull up his insta and stop post and talk to the camera. He's quite timid and shy, reserved, shall I say. But he can push himself physically. Let's say you need both.

01:11:45:17 - 01:12:01:15

You know, you need to be able to push yourself, but you also need to, you know, look at the marketing aspect, look at the finance and sponsorship and what can you give to those who sponsor you? Well, you've got you've got the perfect habit of always leading, leading me into the question. So we go first question that was about to ask.

01:12:01:15 - 01:12:23:23

So let's talk about and let's talk about the entrepreneur. So I want to talk about, you know, planning, funding, marketing costing, sponsors, etc.. Yeah, And I know before we came on camera, you know, very kindly said you you talk about some exact numbers and things as well. Yeah. I think, you know, one thing I was thinking about earlier when we were talking about world records and that you were thinking these world records would translate into money and then realized it didn't.

01:12:23:23 - 01:12:45:16

And I think, you know, that is probably a mistake that so many people make about so many skill sets. You know, I've got friends, for example, who've been Olympic gymnasts or, you know, Olympic swimmers and these kind of thing. And as a layperson, you know, you think that is such a high level skill that set them up for life that it's totally monetizable, etc..

01:12:45:18 - 01:13:02:15

And the answer is invariably that it isn't. And if these people have ever gone to go make some money using that skill set, it's in a completely different area. Like, for example, I had a mate of mine who who took the, I'm going to say, took the bronze in gymnastics in the Barcelona Olympics. Wow. Okay. I mean, he's.

01:13:02:18 - 01:13:21:29

So we're talking 96 or something. Okay. Not what, 92, whatever. It was so a bit older than me. He came back from the Olympics, had you know, was basically flat broke, had no idea. What do you mean? Never mind how he's going to earn money. No idea what to do with his life anymore because he spent his entire life training towards that and then got a phone call from a friend.

01:13:21:29 - 01:13:42:23

He was over, I think, in Holland at the time saying, You need to come to Holland there's some guy who's made something up called Cirque du Soleil and and he needs people to in these gymnasts perform. And obviously 25, 30 years later has become the Cirque du Soleil that, you know, we all know around the world. And he went onto earn himself a nice, nice six figure income.

01:13:42:25 - 01:14:03:15

But for the next 30 years. Yeah, as a translatable skillset from that but the fact that he was a gymnast who took gold in so it took it took bronze in the in the Olympics meant fuck all crazy when it comes to making money. So I guess you've you've had support from one side to the other. You know you've you've learned that just doing the adventures themselves are not enough.

01:14:03:15 - 01:14:21:15

It doesn't get you. It might scratch your riches, but but now you need to make a career out of this. So yeah, let's talk Yemen. Yeah. So pretty much, you know, I was scuba diver. I then focused on Mongolia and you, right? I kind of thought, wow, one single world record. A world first, you know, Edmund Hillary. First up, Everest.

01:14:21:15 - 01:14:39:11

Everyone knows his name. I thought if I complete that boom, I'm going to be I'm going to be made. But what I didn't account for was I didn't have money for appeal. I didn't have money for agency. I didn't have money to try to market what I was doing. It was all just through social media, but I was going to do it anyway.

01:14:39:13 - 01:14:55:04

I was going to do the trip anyway, just for my own, you know, for the experience, for the love, for the passion was only when I figured it was a first. I thought, it's a no brainer. There's a way to monetize because there's very few firsts left. Yes, you can have marathon across the country. Yes, you can have fastest person, but first, so hard to find.

01:14:55:04 - 01:15:17:12

And so that's where I started. And thinking about press, about marketing, about after that, maybe I could do some TED talks, maybe I can publish a book, maybe a TV would like take the show. If I managed to sell film it, maybe I can turn myself somewhat into a brand where they monetizable and I can start working with different brands who share the same ethos of carving your own past and being forced to do something.

01:15:17:12 - 01:15:35:14

And so already for my age, I was 21. Thinking about all of this. I knew I was onto something and I did it. I almost died. I completed it. I think we reached about 250 million, which at the time seemed a lot in terms of global reach. BBC World News, you name it. And then I came back and very quickly went quiet again.

01:15:35:15 - 01:15:58:27

Very quickly went quiet. I at that point I was 100 £200 in my account. I was living with my parents still at that point I couldn't couldn't get gym membership. So I was training in my back garden and I realized, fucking hell, this is this is difficult, This hasn't anything. And I don't want to be lifeguarded I don't want to be a waiter again in Wales, but then I don't want to go back and earn two £300 a month as a scuba diver.

01:15:58:27 - 01:16:24:06

So I was stuck in limbo land and then realized that took took a bit of work. But I found another first and that was Madagascar. But it was only when I did so I did get a UK C to tour after Mongolia. Sorry about that. And that was that brought me in about being honest about 4 to 5 K and that's pretty much all as I saw that whole you were you the So how many searches you did, were you the only speaker?

01:16:24:12 - 01:16:44:08

Yeah, I was host of my own theater. There was 13 different theaters across the UK. It was 90 minutes just an evening with a similar style. Yeah, it was called Breaking Mongolia with Ash Dykes. But yet 90 minutes like that, that was my only income for the year. How Did you and how did you promote that? How do you how do you sell that?

01:16:44:09 - 01:17:00:01

And I guess know, I'm I'm trying to put this in context for people watching or listening to you make some for the things that they do. And again, also when you talk about money, if you do certain things at four or five grand, you're probably going to 250 quid. I thought, could I throw something above that. Yeah, about that.

01:17:00:01 - 01:17:14:07

And I'm sure I had to cover my own petrol went out because I couldn't afford a car. So I went to a call, did a partnership with a local dealer whereby they would do it cheaper. So I managed to get around with that 30, I think it was 13 venues. Took about a whole month of my time, couldn't go anywhere.

01:17:14:07 - 01:17:37:25

I had to be based there. And that it was it was when I was doing that tour, I spoke to the speaking agency. It was the agency because From the Edge that organized that. And he said that is by far the cheapest world first record that he's ever heard of. It cost. It was five grand for a world first, whereas if you take away insurance, logistical help and sleights, you've got to go on to get across the country, you know, and so it was one of the cheapest.

01:17:37:25 - 01:17:54:02

And then after that, I was kind of like I, can now I need to do something else? And so it was Madagascar. Madagascar was a struggle to raise funds for that. It was raise funds. It would let go and work the funds myself. And how did you raise funds? So let's let's try and Trump break it down a few stages for people.

01:17:54:02 - 01:18:16:04

I mean, so, yeah, you realize you need to raise funds. You then decide you're going to ask for sponsorships, presumably You then break the sponsorships into headline making. So by then you then go out and think, Right, who is a good sponsor for this? I will just I will out outbound outreach to these people. Exactly. Yeah. You'll get a list of brands that would associate well with you that share a similar ethos.

01:18:16:04 - 01:18:37:17

You would give them different levels of entry, different options that they can sponsor. And the main thing is, once you've spoke about yourself and the world first record, don't you attempt to be a second world's worst record holder? You break down why it would be good for them. What they can get in return. And then you pretty much signed the right emails and you just send and you send and you send 100,000 rejections, rejection rejections.

01:18:37:17 - 01:18:56:07

And I didn't get one brand. I've got certain brands offering kit that was easy. Plenty of kit coming my way. But that doesn't you know, that doesn't give it go ahead. And it was actually my local council, Cornwall Council. I jumped on board. Oh really. Yeah. And gave enough funds to get it over. Did you outreach to them or did they just happen to hear about and come to you?

01:18:56:07 - 01:19:11:06

I reached out to them, yeah. So I was covering all angles right now. I was literally had to get my marketing hat off, if you like to be like, how can I, what can I benefit here? Who would benefit from it and why so many of to be down and at that point I had 4000 followers on Instagram.

01:19:11:07 - 01:19:25:07

No one was really seeing these these adventures and the brands were just like, Well, fucking is going to reach out to people. And so I could talk about World news and BBC All I Want. Again, that wasn't guaranteed because not even any PR firms I didn't work with, but if I worked with them can't guarantee stuff like that.

01:19:25:11 - 01:19:40:20

So it was very, very fucking hard and. Then we went again with the Yangzi and the Yangtze was going to be different and this was a funny one. And this is where I believe you should just take risks. Like this is with the Yangtze. I was struggling to get the off the ground. This was a whole big I think this was a big production.

01:19:40:20 - 01:19:57:06

This was different teams. This was governments involved. I needed the right permits, the right visas because I was going into sensitive sort of national parks for the Yangtze River in China. And I remember many different teams from around the world were just slack. They just weren't working. And then I was like, What can I do to keep them up the US?

01:19:57:06 - 01:20:18:15

And I remember I created a press release. I put a press release together that's a bit more budget behind this now, various different sponsors coming on board and I went to Wharf the pagination and I launched a press release and I attached all of these different brands names, all of these the production company that said they would help the fixes that said they would be part of it.

01:20:18:15 - 01:20:35:14

I put their brand, their company, their name in that press release, a press release, and now it was in BBC World News, it was on BBC, it was Channel five News. So they saw that I was serious and they couldn't put it off. So yeah, we'll give you a hand next year. I kicked of it, they asked and they start fucking work and thinking Our name is all that saying, we're going to help us with this.

01:20:35:16 - 01:20:53:11

We've we're forced on this force to help him, you know, love it. And that was a big my, my family, my friends went against that and I was like, yes, it's a risk and it's a risk on my name as well, lying effectively. But I thought if it pulls off, it could really benefit and it might be the only way to get mission young, see the green light.

01:20:53:11 - 01:21:09:23

And through that I was then able to contact more brands. But now I had done a pre because I could afford it. I got a PR firm on board and done a pre sort of press release before the trip. They could see that the BBC were covered at the Times would cover the Telegraph. So it was like this is before and I've not even started yet.

01:21:09:23 - 01:21:24:08

So that's when people start to come on board more than and that was a lot easier. And then after the Yangtze, he cut a long story short, it was like on the couch on the wall shows Good Morning Britain. It was the Joe Rogan podcast. It was then pulled in by Dwayne Johnson's agent, meeting with the president and Vice president.

01:21:24:08 - 01:21:40:26

Discovery Maggio. But that took eight years up to that point. And a few of you got of you got a team that work with you. Now, all of you, do you have like an agent and a manager? Do you just like different outsource people? You go to different outsource people. Yeah. So I've got my distribution company in Singapore.

01:21:40:28 - 01:22:15:24

They did American team, but based in Singapore, they cover the world in terms of channels. I've got my production team, Zag Productions here in London and then I've actually got a Team C ICC in China and they've recently sold latest show to Tencent, which is the biggest platform in China. It's kind of like a Netflix of China. And then in terms of agency, we've got agencies lined up and they can only make a decision based on where my latest TV show goes in the UK and then we've even got between us as well it's not between us anymore but I've got penguins you know, the book publishing company, they want to secure a deal, but

01:22:15:24 - 01:22:40:01

again, they're waiting on which channel takes the show in the UK. And then I guess this one, whilst it's already in a great place now, depending on what UK based channel takes the show, it will just take it to the next level again. Awesome. Which will finally be the the make after decade. And it's that it's an overnight success of ten years in the making.

01:22:40:03 - 01:23:05:18

Exactly. I think people will see and be like I lucky here but honestly up to now I've faced thousands. It has to be over 2000 rejections has to be from different brands, sponsors, magazines, radio, TV, logistics, productions. It must all gather up to over thousands of faced heartbreak. I faced you know, it's been it's it's been very tough.

01:23:05:18 - 01:23:27:25

It's been a struggle. And I've lived with my parents a lot of the time because I've simply had no fucking money. But I finally broke through last year took a fucking while. But it's that dogmatic pursuit of a vision of being a yes, of not being in a nation that you love where you want the success, you want the pay off, but you've also loved every step of the way.

01:23:27:27 - 01:23:42:14

Yeah, I don't regret any of it. I've learned a lot. It's been great fun and it is now nice to be on this side whereby I could talk about it because the last time we did the podcast you wouldn't catch me saying this stuff. I was in the middle of it still, you know, whereas now I'm in a much better place.

01:23:42:14 - 01:24:03:28

I'm excited. The future is bright and at least now I've got it in me and I know that I just keep fighting and fight and fight, so. All right, Well, well, let's I've got one more question for you before we go, because I'm conscious. We've got a wrap up. I guess what we've we've gone the ups and downs and ended in the happy place, I guess another happy place question to ask you is you've got a girlfriend.

01:24:04:05 - 01:24:26:05

Yeah. So you guys on Instagram a bit more now and I know, you know, always post about how happy to get back and you obviously spend a lot of time apart when when you're on your journeys. Yes. Talk to me about the importance of the right partners in relationship partner for success. And again, it's a question question I always ask people, I talk to talk about it from a business perspective.

01:24:26:05 - 01:24:45:05

You know, I've got mates who are professional fighters, professional sports. When you talk to them. And I guess you've got a very unique career where where the right support is absolutely essential to, you know, to keeping your mindset right and to bring the headspace. And I would say, you know, that for any success, you either have to have the right partner or no partner.

01:24:45:05 - 01:25:01:26

Yeah, you know, absolutely nothing wrong with being single now, but and it will be better to be single in the pursuit of success if you haven't got partner. Well, one plus one equals more that more. More than two. Yeah. And I can imagine, I mean there's so many extra things that come into play with you, the fact that you know, only you apart for so long.

01:25:01:26 - 01:25:17:10

You probably apart, you know, we've been able to communicate. I would I would imagine sometimes. Imagine, yeah. Just to watch you plan journeys that she knows are going to keep you away from her for six months and that could kill you and all this thing. Just tell me a bit about home life and yeah, turn that into some advice for people listening to this.

01:25:17:10 - 01:25:38:22

Yeah. No, you are absolutely on. I think. I think it's better to be single rather than have the wrong partner because that's just going to stop everything. And I was single up until I was 29, fully single, no relationships. I was traveling, doing this, doing that, and I said to myself, It is only when I meet the right person that I will then look at selling.

01:25:38:29 - 01:25:59:06

Luckily shops, my girlfriend shared the same ethos. She's very driven, very ambitious. She's she likes to be alone. She likes her own independence. And as soon as we just we came together, we just really connected. Since it's been two and a half years, over two and a half years, she has just supported me fully, which makes I don't even have to think about the stress and worry of when I'm away.

01:25:59:06 - 01:26:27:02

What's she going to do? Because she's a grinder, she's a grafter, she'll crackle. Yes, we miss each other a lot and we are solidly close. And I spent on this four and a half month journey that I was away filming the Great War show. That was that was hard. But we would video call when when we could when I was in the signal area and she would always just be solidly in support and talking about you know it's only two months left and then you'll be back here and you would have achieved the biggest step so far of your adventuring career.

01:26:27:02 - 01:26:44:26

And that was so important to hear because it could have quite easily been the flipside where she could have been resentful and the right reasons as well. She could have found ways to say that this isn't fair and what you're doing isn't fair. And I can't live with this right from the get go. From very few first times dating, we were open books with each other.

01:26:44:26 - 01:27:00:07

And I think you have to be because got to be in full support of one another. And it's just like me with her now as she's getting started in her career, I'm in full support and she's got to do what she's got to do to get ahead and that means she's working to 11 p.m. or whatever it is.

01:27:00:09 - 01:27:21:19

You do that because you have your path. I of my path. We have a shared path, but we must equally support each other. Yeah, I don't think it would have been very hard and a different story going to China this time round if I didn't have that supportive partner also wasn't. But it's been a pleasure. It's been great, I'd say if we if we carry on this any longer, I'm going to drink more Diet Coke and absolutely explode.

01:27:21:20 - 01:27:38:15

So and so we've had a cool time. But now I'll say listen it's been it's been great to chat again. And it's funny because obviously, you know, being friends, we get to have some of these conversations anyway. But yeah, but it's never it's never the same as, I guess sitting down in the kind of formal environment too, to actually actually dig deep on on some of the stuff.

01:27:38:15 - 01:28:00:18

But, you know, it's been a kind of a pleasure and an honor for me to kind of watch your journey over the last over the last two or three years. Yeah. And I'm looking forward to seeing much more over the next two or three years and I'm even more so looking forward to doing our adventure. Exactly. I was going to say the next the next sort of YouTube or screening or whatnot that your audience will see hopefully between us two will be, yes, out there somewhere in the wild, dude, fucking cool

01:28:00:22 - 01:28:19:18

adventure man. I can't wait. Right. Well, listen, for anyone who doesn't know you, where can they find your insta and stuff? Yeah, Insta website YouTube, which I've started putting more videos on. That's just my name Ash Dykes, and it’s all there. Awesome. Well, listen, I'm sure you are going to want to follow much more of Ash. His stories are legendary and he's a lovely guy to boot.

01:28:19:19 - 01:28:40:25

So please, please do follow him. And I can't wait to do a round three with you as well. Definitely look forward to it, guys. As always, I'm The Matt Haycox, that's T H E M A T T H A Y C O X on all things social. If you watch me on YouTube, you can listen to me on. iTunes or Spotify wherever you take your podcasts. If you listen to me, you can also see my pretty face if you jump over onto YouTube.

01:28:41:03 - 01:28:58:19

So give me a follow, press Subscribe, press Like, any of those things you don’t already do it and I'll see you in a future episode of The Matt Haycox Show.