Answering The Hard Questions: Army Vet On Poverty, Blackmail, & Suicidal Ideation

Today, I sit down with Devin Fish, an Army veteran and author of Answering The Hard Questions: Let It Be The End Of The Chapter, Not The End Of The Book. Mr. Fish shares his journey from growing up in poverty in Rockford, Illinois, moving repeatedly throughout childhood, and dealing with instability, family addiction, bullying, isolation, and rejection before joining the military.

In this episode, Mr. Fish walks through the painful experiences that shaped his early life, including his father’s drug and alcohol-related breakdown, his mother’s addiction struggles, and the devastating moment he had to face her death shortly after entering his first Army assignment. We also discuss how unresolved trauma, loneliness, and self-hatred can push people into dangerous cycles, including dating app addiction, blackmail, scams, sexual shame, and suicidal ideation.

Mr. Fish also explains how seeking help through military counseling and hospitalization became a turning point in his life. We discuss the importance of mindset, resilience, suicide prevention, and how a person’s darkest chapter does not have to become the end of their story. His path eventually led him to become an Army career counselor, turn his pain into a presentation for soldiers, and later transform that message into a published book.

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*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and Man Up, Sober Up, written by Ryan Penley, a I would dare to say a friend of mine, a coworker. He's been a guest on this podcast, and I've been a guest on his podcast. We had some amazing conversations together about addiction recovery, and it is courtesy of him that he sent me today's guest, connected me with Mr. Devin Fish. So great to see those connections. One of my favorite things about podcasting is we always know someone, and we always know someone who should know someone, so super excited for this meeting. We actually got a brand-new book launched as well that we'll be getting into, so it's gonna be a great time. Now, Mr. Devin Fish, could you please tell us just a little bit about yourself as we get started here? Yeah. So I'm Devin Fish. I, I just wrote a book called Answering the Hard Questions: Let It Be the End of the Chapter, Not the End of the Book. It came out March 31st, so it's pretty much brand new still. And I just got done doing 10 years in the military so I just became a veteran on Tuesday. So that's a little bit about my background right now. All right. Let me see that DD214, make sure you're not lying. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. But wow, you just got out, so that's, that's awesome. 10 years, I guess, I mean, hmm. Mm-hmm. We're gonna, we're gonna do this backwards, I guess, 'cause I, I, normally I like to understand why you went in first, but- Mm-hmm ... since you just got out, I gotta know, why did you get out? You know, you were halfway. I'm sure you heard that- Mm ... from a lot of people, halfway to the big 2-0, so what happened? Yeah. So I will also, you know, I was a career counselor so I was the retention guy that says, "Hey, stay in the Army." So I was a, I was an advocate. The Army. I wasn't always like that as we'll get into the, like in the story in a little bit. But the reason was that about, it was 2025, I started writing the book. And about 10 pages into the book, I'm like, "I'm going to write this book, and then I'm going to leave the military essentially to pursue this book." So it's like, no bad personal feelings for the military or my job. You know, I, I love my job. But it was just I wanted to do other things, and I also self-published the book, so I wanted to keep all the rights, and I didn't want anything, like, I guess, military-wise to get in the way of that path. Mm, mm. So I didn't, I didn't wanna sign a 10-year contract and then, you know, a lot of opportunities can happen in, like, 10 years. Right. 100%, 100%. So I totally get that. Let's backtrack. You know, just based off what Mr. Penley and you had told me, we'll start with you mentioned coming from poverty and- Mm-hmm having a very tumultuous childhood of, of moving around and being rejected and struggles with your parents. So let's kinda get into that foundation that shaped your life. Yeah. So I come from Rockford, Illinois. To give you a little bit of information about it, Rockford specifically it's rated 5 out o- 100 on the crime index, meaning 95% of the United States is safer than Rockford, Illinois. Wow. So w- we're, we're barely edged out by, like, Detroit, and, like, even if you compare us to, like, Chicago. So our crime rate is worse if, like, you, with the population at the same rates. Hmm. So that give you, like, an idea. So nothing really good over there. I did grow up in poverty. So I moved about 16 times before the age of 18 and before joining the military. So I've lived in houses, I've lived in farms, trailers, apartments, all the way down to, like, a motel for a little while. Living conditions weren't always great, so sometimes we didn't have, like, AC. Sometimes we didn't have, like, water. There was a time where we didn't have a bathroom for, like, a couple weeks as well. At an early age, I knew I was pretty poor because when I compared myself to, like, friends or classmates, I was roaming around with, like, a flip phone or s- like, a CD player, and then my friends, like, had iPhones and iPhones and iPods. So I, I knew I was, like, a generation behind on top of that. On top of, like, all the moving, I also lived with, like, my mother, I lived with my father, I lived with two different aunts. I've lived with, like, grandparents, and then I've also lived with friends of my mother's as well. And then each ki- one of those visits I actually talk about in the book and I kind of break it down 'cause that could've been a whole book by itself. But even with that instability of, like, growing up and stuff like that, as I grew up, it got worse and worse and worse. And then, yeah, we can go from there. So what was the cause of this extreme poverty- Hmm ... that kind of hindered your family your whole childhood? So I would say, so my mother and father, they were always separated. So I kind of lived with my mother was always kind of on her own. I did have, I guess you can say, kind of like a stepfather growing up. But that relationship kept going, like, back and forth, and then so with that, that, that kind of helped with the poverty. But my mother also had, like, back issues growing up so she was, like, on pain medication, so that made it difficult for her to work. But on top of that, there was just, like, a ver- a lot of misfortunate events happening on that time to where it's like some of it we were forced to move, like, depending on who we are living with. Some of them we were evicted out of and we just couldn't live there anymore. Sometimes they couldn't, like, afford to keep a job or even some of the people we lived with, they were so, like, I guess, versatile would be the word, that they, my mother didn't want me around them as well. Hmm. And so moving around that much, not only were you different from all of your peers, but you probably had estranged relationships to most of them, or like what kind of became the social situation for you? So growing up I was pretty much mute. So like my last name is Fish, so that didn't make it easier growing up as a kid. I went to- Yeah ... seven different schools. So I went to like two elementary schools. I went back and forth to four middle schools, and then I went to high school. I went to one high school, so I was there the entire time. However, I did like four or five moves just within that four years, so that's where I did a lot of my moving. And so yeah, I was, I was pretty much mute at that point. I was isolated. That, that probably didn't help like in the depression area because I was pretty much an easy target, so like I'm like 5'8". Even back then I was probably like 120 pounds, like soaking wet. So I was pretty thin mute with the last name of Fish. So like all that added up for like the perfect bully material. But you would've made one fine Navy sailor if you had, if you had joined. I could imagine that. Oh, yeah. If, if you were on the submarines with that last name. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can imagine that. But you know, so you talked about living between two separated homes, kind of both your parents struggling with a lot, and so you talk about, so you say that that was just the beginning, and it got worse from there. Mm. Oh, yeah. It got worse from there. Yep. So- Yep how did it go downhill from there? Yeah, so, so what I initially did to actually get into the military and wanting to go into the military so I was a junior in high school. I just failed out of my first class, which was honors geometry. My dad was on me like the entire summer. He's like, "I'm... I've had enough of this. Like, I've been too lenient on you." So he was like on me like every day he could, reminding me every time, and he's like, "You're also gonna get a job to go pay for this," 'cause he- he's like, "I'm not gonna pay for you to keep doing all this over and ruin your life." So that leaned me into a direction to where he would want me to take pictures of my resume, 'cause he, I wasn't living with him at the time. And so any time I had like a resume I would fill it out, and then I would go throw it in the trash because I was still pretty rebellious at the time. And I was in his apartment one day, and he's like, "Have you ever thought about going to the military?" And at this point I think he already figured out that I was already throwing that stuff away and I wasn't actually doing any like interviews. So one day he called me b- my bluff, and it's li... I was like, "Sure." And so he's like grabbed his keys. He's like, "All right, let's go down to recruiter's office right now." So we went down. I actually ki- I liked what they said and it also got my father off my back for the summer so that helped out a lot. And then that ended up, I went into the delayed entry program where we go train with them for, like, one day of the week, and that actually kind of, like, helped me with that instability and everything that was going on. So it kinda g- gave me, like, a mini goal to get into and helped me not focus on what was going on. And then that's where I can start transitioning into where my life actually got worse. So it was the summer of 2016. I still wasn't doing good in school. I had just got, like, a phone call that got-- I was living with my father at the time, and he's like, "Hey your son's missing, like, 50 assignments in one class." And so I was already... And he-- if you don't pass high school, you can't join the military anymore so that was one of the stipulations. But then after that it was the summer of 2016. I was about a month from graduating high school, so I got my grades back on track, and then I had my ship date of, like, June 5th or something like that, so it was, like, a month, like, right after I graduate high school. Got off the bus one day to my apartment complex where my father lived, and the apartment complex was swarmed with, like, police vehicles. There's probably, like, five or 10 of them there. Based on my life already, even though it was, like, apartment of 20 or 30, I kind of put two and two together. I'm like, "I'm not gonna have a very good day, am I?" So I walk up to the police, and they pretty much confirm that suspicion. They're like "We're not gonna allow you to go into your apartment. We don't want you to see what's going on right now." And so they had to escort me off the premises. They took me down to my aunt's place, which was about two miles down the road and that's kinda where we get some of the details about what happened. So we get notified that my father's i- in the hospital. So what happened, he resisted arrest, so they had to tase him, sedate him, and then take him to the hospital. And that's kind of all they told us about then. So we go to the hospital, and then we see what kind of condition he, he's in. So the first thing we notice is that he's pretty angsty. So, like, he, he-- as soon as, like, he saw me and the family, you know, he's trying to turn away but he's also, like, handcuffed to the bedpost so that he can't move. On top of that, his arms are covered in, like, blood and scratches at this point so we don't really know what's going on, and then the nurses kind of have to fill us in of what actually happened. So what happened was that he had drank Fireball Whiskey, and then he combined it with cocaine. So essentially what happened, he exploded in that apartment through, through, like, a pure rush of, like, adrenaline and stuff like that. We didn't know how bad it was until I actually went back to the apartment, 'cause I still had to go get my stuff because I was still in school. I think this was on a Friday, and I had to go back to school Monday. So we go to that apartment, and the first thing that happens is we open that apartment door, and, and what my aunt says she was like, "If we didn't see my father in the hospital, we would have thought someone had got murdered in that apartment," 'cause everything in this apartment is covered in blood. So, like, the floor, the walls, and, like, even the ceiling had blood all over it. And everything was broken in that apartment. So he destroyed everything that he could get his hands on at that point. So there was, like, a glass table, which I imagine where, which is where all the blood came from. Like, there was a smashed-in TV, laptops, like the table, refrigerator, cabinets, and everything like that, and even to the extent to where there was an AC unit hooked into the wall, and somehow he threw that through the window. And, and so that is kind of where, you know, m- my troubles get, like, even worse. And this is kind of... I think I was at move probably, like, 13 or 14 at this time, and then so that caused, like, two or three more moves just by that. And then from there I ended up passing high school graduated, and then I headed to basic training, which was in Fort Leonard Wood. I was originally going to be a 68 Charlie, which is a nurse or a LPN. So I went to basic training. Halfway through that cycle, I found out that I'm not good at rifle marksmanship, so I failed by one shot, had to get recycled, and go to the basic training for the second time. Really fun stuff. From there, I passed my second iteration. I went to Fort Sam Houston after that for AIT for 68 Charlie school. Got there, found out that the school was a 70% dropout rate, because essentially they crammed three years of school into one. And so it's like death by PowerPoint, like, all day long. I was going through some personal issues at that time, so I couldn't really focus on the schoolwork. About five weeks into that, I ended up failing out of the nursing school. I signed a six-year contract, so o- obviously the Army's still gonna do their time even if you fail out of your initial entry training. From there I kind of had-- I was in an idle position to where I-- where we had to just, like, sit on a bench for the next two or three months waiting for my next assignment to populate. This was, like, win- fall/wintertime, so it was pretty cold outside. And so while they're going to classes, we're just sitting on a bench not really doing anything unless we got called for, like, a detail or something like that. Mm. And then I find out my next assignment, which is going to be a 19 Delta, which was a cavalry scout kind of a combat MOS, focuses on, like, reconnaissance for, like, m- like, the commander and people like that. Bad part about that is that their initial training is called OSETT, so their basic training and their initial entry training are linked together. So from there, I had to go to Fort Benning, and I had to go to basic training for the third time. So- Whoa ... within about a one-year span, I'm... So I'm stuck in the basic training cycle for about a year straight almost. So I go there to the 19 Delta training. I end up passing that iteration, and then I get my first assignment, which is at Fort Hood, Texas. Within... I started in-processing at Fort Hood. I got a phone call from my mother. It was nothing extreme. She just wanted to see how I was doing, and it was about two weeks from my birthday, so she wanted to wish me happy birthday just in case everyone got busy, stuff like that. And then and to backtrack a little bit, so my mother also had some issues with, with her life as well. So she struggled with both drug and alcohol as I was growing up. So hers was based more of on pain medication, which I went over a little bit earlier. But she would li- from what I could tell, she was, like, selling them, trading them, and she was, like, quite addicted to them. And for someone who's never seen someone on a pain medication addiction, the best way I can describe it is it pretty much zombifies the person to where their body is there, but their mind, well, their mind is... Their body is there, but their mind is completely gone. And to give people an example of that, I was talking to my mother one day. She's standing up. We're having a conversation. All of a suddenly, her head starts bobbing back and forth. So while she's standing up, she pretty much passes out and her body just, like, stays there in almost, like, an idle position. And after that kind of a, like, event, I stopped, you know, going to see my mother for a while. And this is, like, right before, like, the stuff with my father's happening. The thing about my mother is, though, that once I went to basic training she g- got her life back on track. So she got off the pain medication minus what she still had to take for, like, her back issues. But she got a job. She got a new place, and everything was going pretty good for her. So when I got this phone call from her, you know, everything was going good. And then after that phone call, I didn't know it at the time, but it was going to be the last time I talked to my mother. I'm 19 at this time, and I get a Red Cross message the next day, and what they tell me I had to go back to Illinois. I got the news that sh- a medication she was taking had a bad reaction, so it essentially fried her brain from the inside out. Hmm. And based on her life, you know, she just turned her life around, so no one was expecting this at the time. Once I get to the hospital, I'm also the eldest son so I was faced with the decision. They're like, "Hey whether we keep her on life support or let her go is going to be on you." Wow. For religious reasons, I was ready to let her go. But as I was making that decision the nurse ended up walking in and they're like, "Hey, there's nothing we can do regardless now. We're going to pull the plug." So- Mm ... on my way to heading to my first unit, I'm not even in my unit yet and I had to sit there and watch my mother die. So all of this is like one big chain event. So it's like father with the instability of moving and from poverty to like the one year of basic training, and then immediately to my mother's death. Right ... and then so all this is not really, you know, adding up for a good scenario, and then it leads into my part of the story where I make my life a lot harder on myself. So it fast-forwards to the year of 2019. I think I was either 21 or 22 at the time. And at this point, I- my depression or like not caring for life ended up turning into like a lot of self-hatred, 'cause I, I looked kind of back on my life. I'm like, "Okay, well, life's not getting any better now that I'm in the military." Like, everything... Like, I was blaming the school system, I blamed my parents. I was kind of blaming religion at the time. I blamed like the Army, and then eventually when none of that was working, I started blaming myself, which it led to like the self-hatred. So it was like a progressive cycle in self-hatred. And what I noticed is that like once you start like hating yourself, you still wanna be loved, and so you start looking for it, and I looked for it in all the wrong places. So what- Right ... happened, I, I ended up getting into dating websites, and I ended up getting like highly addicted to them. But dating websites are very predatory in how they're actually made and how they actually function, stuff like that. I just saw like a video like two weeks ago. Someone made a profile with like a, a female, and they were like a male. They got like a, 1,000 likes in one day, and then like he reversed it, put his photo on there, and it was like one or something like that. And so that will give you an idea of like how the system's actually played out. The problem with me is that like I went to the dating websites, and so I was that person that g- you know, got one or two matches that never led to anything. And so that started... I went down into a desperate cycle to where it's like the only people who would communicate to me are, were like people who wanted money like catfish or even the scammers and stuff like that. Yeah. And so that's kind of- Yeah ... where my part of the story begins. And so throughout this year, I got blackmailed probably like on several occasions, and then like once I resolved one of them, I would just get into the next. Like- Mm ... even when I knew they were like catfishing or scamming, I was in such a desperate position to where I would pay them, and I would let them pretty much threaten my life and I would give them anything they wanted. It didn't start off, like, very harshly. So the first one actually started off with, I would say, more of a catfishing situation. I don't really have any confirmations of these 'cause it's very hard to actually, like, know what's real and what's not, and it's kind of, like, based on experience and after a year of going through all this. And, you know, that'll help with, like, some of the conclusions I come to. But, so first one, they didn't really actually blackmail me or anything like that. They were more of, like, a catfish, and so they used my emotions. So they're like, "Hey, I wanna come see you. Send me some money." So sent them some money. They didn't show up. This goes back and forth, like, four or five times, and eventually I'm like, "Okay this isn't working." And, you know, obviously I knew they were pretty fake at this time, and I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna call their bluff. I'm going to go to their location." Ended up doing that. You know, terrible idea, by the way. Because if this was, like some kind of, like, scam or something like that, I could have got kidnapped in this situation. And the city that they said they were in, you know, was pretty bad. Like, all the stores there are, like, boarded up with, like, wood and stuff like that, and there was, like, hom- homeless people under the bridge. So luckily, again, they didn't show up, and that was kind of, like, the last time I interacted with that person. But when I got done with that one then I would just move on to the next one. So this became, like, a very... It became, like, a compulsion of, like, almost getting, like, rejected. So I was almost, like, addicted to, like, the rejection and hoping it would change, like, each time. Mm. And so, like, when one dating website didn't work, I went on to the next, the next, the next. I've even gone even to, like, those sketchy websites that have, like, one or two reviews. They're, like, nothing but bots and scammers. I'm like, "Well, let's see if I have any luck." Mm. Terrible ideas. And so then the next scenario happened. I get into the next one. Still it was pretty casual. We had, like, some conversations. We ended up sending some photos back and forth. And I would give them the money. Same scenario. They would say, "Hey, I wanna come see you," give them the money, and then they never show up. Eventually, after probably the second or third time, I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna stop sending you money." And then once they, once I stop sending them money, they're like, "Hey I still have these photos of you. If you don't send me more money, then I'm just going to start sending them online." And so that was the first time I got blackmailed. I-- Eventually, they left me alone. So I moved on to the next situation. This one got a little more violent. So immediately the conversation went to, like, photos. They're like, "Hey, send me a photo of you. I want your face in it," stuff like that. Immediate red flags, but I was like, "I don't care at this point. Like, I've already been blackmailed. I've already been catfished," everything like that. So- I sent the photo, and within about 30 seconds of that photo, they're like, "Hey, I got your Facebook information. I have your father. I have all your family on this right now." And they sent me a picture of that. So not only was I being blackmailed, but they had my information so that they can continuously blackmail me. The only way I got out of that situation was actually the previous person who blackmailed me ended up coming back. And I am talking to them, and they're like, "Hey delete your Facebook. Block the person's number. They, they don't actually have any intention of, like, sending it to them. It's just you need to get rid of them." Now, of course, they did that because they just wanted my money, and so they helped me out so they could get my money instead. And then we go on to the next situation where it gets a little more explicit. So the next person I found they were actually a real person. However, they just wanted money. So pretty much they were a online prostitute at this point. And at this point, I was like, "I don't really care what happens at, to me at this point." And so, I give them the money, and unfortunately, that's how I ended up losing my virginity 'cause I was in a place of, like, desperation at that time, and it was like anything would make me happy at that point. What ended up happening from that, like, it was about a week later I end up-- I wake, wake up one morning, and I run to the bathroom 'cause I have, like, a burning sensation. So I go to the bathroom, come back. Probably within 20 minutes, I go to the bathroom, like, another five times. And you know, it was kind of one of those experiences where you go to the bathroom, but it, like, burns to the point to where it feels like you still have to go, and that's k- kind of what kept happening. Mm-hmm. Put my uniform on. I go to work and same thing happens. I still have to keep going to the bathroom over and over again. About the tenth time I'm pretty much falling to my knees in pain at this point, and I go to the bathroom for the last time that day. And I'm not just urinating at this point. I'm pretty much blood is coming out and mucus is coming out, and so that's- Gross ... when I kind of figure out. Yeah, so it's like a very graphic, very gross scene. So at that point, I go to the doctor's afterwards, and they're like, "Hey, you probably have an STD of some sort." I ended up catching chlamydia. Now, luckily, I was able to get c- cured, so I got very lucky on that end. But that still didn't even stop me, and I got into, like, one more situation before I landed myself in the hospital. So I go back to the online dating apps get another match. And then I get caught up in the age scam. So pretty much what happened is they swapped their ages once we actually start talking. They sent a photo, and at this point I'm like, "I don't care." I could feel the blackmail coming, like, a mile away, and it was, it was kinda like one of those sickening feelings. And so I'm like, "I, I don't care at this point, so I'm gonna keep doing it." Get a phone call next day that, you know, they claim that the person's in the hospital, and they're like, "Hey you can either send us money to help pay for these bills or we'll rat you out to the military." And at this point, that's when I'm like, "Okay, so this is going to be, like, a real situation." And I kind of played it day by day, but in my head I was kind of, like, contemplating, like, suicide for about a month or so before I actually went to go get help. And that was kind of, like, when my story starts, like, turning around. I wanna go back real quick to- Mm-hmm ... your father. Whatever happened to him after the hospitalization? Was he brought into incarceration, or what happened with that? So I don't think he had any jail time, so he got pretty lucky on that. He ended up getting some charges, so he got his, like, license taken away for, like, three or four years. So he couldn't really drive. I think he couldn't, like, leave the state or the city, anything like that, for a couple years as well. But as of, like, last week, he's actually six years sober. So he hasn't touched, like, drugs or alcohol for, like, six years. So he's been on his own journey, and he's actually recovered from all that. Wait, so was it that a neighbor heard all the smashing in the apartment and called the cops? So I don't know if we ever knew who did it. I'm assuming it was probably a neighbor 'cause this was, like, in a, a big ap-part- Right ... apartment complex. So I imagine someone heard it, and then I'm assuming once the police got there, that's when he resisted. That's probably when he got tased- Oh, okay ... and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to clarify that. It wasn't they went there because they had a warrant to arrest him. Mm. They went because of a noise complaint, and then because of the state he was in- Yeah ... that's what happened. Okay. And so, you talk about, you know, getting help and your life turning around. What was that? Was that military counseling? Was that a civilian doctor? Was that a priesthood? What, what did that look like? Mm-hmm. Yeah, so, what I was doing at the time, so I d- no one knew about the blackmail or any of my situation with my parents, either one of them, so I kept this very to myself, and I was very isolated and alone at this point. But what I would do, I would sneak off to a MFLC counselor, which is a military family life counselor, and the thing about them is they're completely anonymous. Like, they can't even t- tell, like, people that you were there. They don't write anything down or anything like that. And so I would go there, vent to them, but I would just pretty much tell them, like, "I don't like being in the military. I don't like my unit," stuff like that. Because I didn't, I still didn't want people knowing about what was going on in my life at that time. But I kind of used that to submit myself to the hospital because I knew the one thing that they had to report was that if you wanted to harm yourself or harm anyone else. Right. So I kind of used that situation and were like, "Hey, I'm having these thoughts of, like, contemplating suicide," to get myself help, and so they had to submit me to the hospital from there. I went to the hospital. I think I was there for about a week, and the hospital itself didn't do too much for me. It, it did help in the way that it got me away from, like, what was going on, like, within the scout platoon at the time, because I was also an NCO, so it kind of g- got me, like, away from all the stress all the blackmail and stuff like that. And so it kind of, like, isolated me. When I was in that hospital, the two things that really changed my life though were I found two little pamphlets with some, like, facts and stuff like that. And so what the pamphlet said was that there's a lot of people who are suicidal but don't want to end their life. So essentially it's a call for help, and they just want people to know what's going on in their life. So that one helped- Right ... me out a lot. And then the second one was that you can have, like, a perfectly healthy mind, but if you believe you are depressed, your brain will slowly make you depressed. Mm. And so I kind of read that, and then I'm like, "Okay, what if I do the reverse?" Because I knew I was consumed with, like, self-hatred. I knew I had, like, depression. I had all these things going on in my life, and so I was like, "Okay, well, if I hate myself but I, if I convince myself I can be happy, maybe I can be happy again." And I pursued that for about two or three years. And that was the really big one that actually helped me start turning things around. Right. That's actually one of the biggest points that this podcast has driven after over 300 episodes, is, like, the effect that what your mindset has on your body physically, chemically, and all that really is so much more powerful than we could ever comprehend, and it really does relate to both of those ways, whether it's positive or negative. Mm. And so how... At what point in the military are you in terms of, like, how many years you've been in when this happens? Let's see. I joined in 2016. I submitted myself to the hospital, so this is probably three years in, so pretty early in my career actually. Right. So you have seven years after that because you just got out at around 10 years. So what did the rest of that military journey kind of look like? Yeah, so once I got out of the hospital I kind of pursued a, like, okay, what would make me happy? One of the things was, like, I didn't like my job at all, so that so I looked at other jobs. So I went to the career counselor's office, didn't know what a career counselor was at this time, and so I started, like, looking at a list of jobs. Nothing I looked at, you know, kind of I wanted to get into. But then when I came back to the office, I was like, "Hey well, what do you do?" He's like, "Well, I'm a career counselor." And he-- what they do is, like, they help the soldiers with their contracts, and they also help them throughout their career with, like, PCSing, training, their bonuses, and overall, like, career advice and stuff like that. So I'm like, "That's something I could do." And then they put me in the training room after this, so I was separated from the scout platoon. And I knew that we were getting ready to do a rotation to Germany, and I'm like, "What do I have to do to become a career counselor?" So he's like, "Hey, you gotta go to this training," which I could do in Germany, "and then you have to get a promotable status," which I didn't have yet. But by the end of the deployment, which was nine m-months I could get that promotable status. So we go on that deployment. I get my certificate, and then on the training room, so I get to see who's getting promoted each month. So I saw my name on the list, and this is something I was talking to, like, the first sergeant commander and the career counselor with, and they're, you know, all on board for me, you know, submitting this packet. So see my name on the list, but I notice there's an X next to my name. And so I go up to the first sergeant, because that was my first line at the time. I'm like, "Hey, first sergeant I noticed you marked an-- marked an X next to me." So he pulled me aside. We have a conversation. He's like, "Hey because you've been out of the scout platoon for nine months I'm not going to count your time." And I was like, "Hey, first sergeant, I'm not trying to be a scout anymore. I'm trying to leave the scout platoon and reclass into this other job." So it's like, I'm like, "Does this time really matter?" So we ha- we go back and forth for probably, like, 10, 20 minutes at this point, and, like, five times through, I'm like, "Okay this isn't going to work." So I, I ended up having to go back to the scout platoon. At the same time when we were in Germany I knew that once we kind of came back, I was going to be alone again. So I started getting a little bit desperate again. I was, I, I was, I, I was adding-- I was back on s- like, some of the dating websites. Nothing as, like, extreme before to where it's like I was getting, like, blackmailed or in, like, those harsher sit-situations, 'cause I kind of, like, knew what to look for at that point after being, like, blackmailed several times and, like, being zeroed out of my finances. So I kind of knew all the signs to look for. Right. And then- But it didn't but I was still desperate because I didn't want to be home alone because during that nine months, like you grow closer with your friends and with your coworkers, and they become like your family. And so when they went back, I'm like, okay, it's just gonna go back to m- me being alone, and they're gonna go be with their families and be happy. And that's kind of something I always wanted, which is why I kept going back to the dating websites because I would-- that's something I wanted was like friendship or like a partner or something like that. So within that rotation, I get back, and I realize that I'm like, I just did a full 360. I'm back pretty much to almost the identical situation of before that deployment and while I was at that hospital. Right. So I get back. The career counselor is getting ready PCS, and he was my mentor at the time, and I was like, "Okay, what do I have to do to get my packet submitted?" Because I w- I was back with the scout platoon, and he's like, "If you go to this board retention NCO of the year and you win that board," he's like, "You will 100% get your packet submitted." So I end up going to that board. It was a division-level board, and I was the only retention NCO to show up that year. So alls I had to do was pass the board. And they also liked that because they're like, you know, out of thousands of soldiers that could have attended, y- like I was the only one to show up. So they already liked the initiation. And then from there, I passed the board, and they're like, they actually said I did really well as well because they're like, "You got some of the questions that the career counselors themselves missed." So some, you know, maybe I got lucky on that one. But I, I studied a long time for that board, and then after I did that, once I did that like about a month or two later, we submitted the packet for me to become a career counselor. It was still like a year, year out and I still had, you know, some difficulties during that time. But I kind of, that was my goal is like anytime I got like frustrated throughout that year, I had to continuously remind myself like, "Hey, my packet's submitted. I'm going to be a career counselor. I'm going to turn my life around." And so that one-year goal ended up turning to like a three-year goal, but I kind of used that to keep, keep me going. Right. Now, at what point does your book come into play? When did you start writing it, and kind of what inspired that? Mm. So I would say it started getting inspired in 2022, so that's when I officially became a career counselor. I didn't write anything down on paper, but it's like I kind of like looked back on my life. It's like, okay, I just went through like some of the worst situations you can possibly be thrown in from like a child, you know, all the way up to like 22, and I think I'm like 24 or 25 at this time. I'm like, I've turned my life around, like maybe I got a story to tell. Didn't write anything down yet. I didn't, and then it came to 2024 I started to put it into a PowerPoint because I wanted to present it to my peers and my other career counselors. So sent it to my coworkers at the time. They're like, "Hey, yeah, if you wanna present it, go for it." They recommended me to go to MRT, which is Master Resilience Trainer. It's a really good course. They just changed the name though. It's like Ready and Resilient now. So did that, and then division wanted us to do training for the other career counselors. So I'm like, "Cool, I'll do like an MRT class." But I ended up not doing the MRT PowerPoint, but I ended up sending them the PowerPoint about my life, where I kind of like summarize those initial stories I was talking about. But ended up getting rejected because they're like, "I don't see the MRT," which I, which is what I originally put down on the sheet. At that time, once it got rejected, I also got notified that I was going on a deployment to Kuwait in early 2025. So I went on that deployment, and I still wanted to present the story, so I'm like, "Okay, the PowerPoint got rejected, so I'm going to make this into an entire book." So I started writing the book in 2025. And again, about 10 pages in, I decided like, "Hey, I'm going to pursue this, and this is what I'm going to do. And I'm going to end up leaving the Army because of this reason." So I'm writing the book in 2025. Once I got done with the manuscript I sent-- What was this? It was towards the end of deployment. I ha- I was getting ready to lock it in soon. People started knowing about it because I spread it through-- I was talking with like a PO, stuff like that, and my sergeant major at the time wanted me to do like a NCO PD class. And I was like, "Okay, maybe this is my time to, you know, do something a little bit different that they haven't seen before." So I take that original PowerPoint that got rejected. I revamped it based on my book that I just wrote, and which is like a summarized version of chapter one about suicidal awareness, stuff like that. He ended up liking it. He gave me that chance. But it ended up getting canceled for the NCO PD, and instead we did it for redeployment training. Wow. So instead of, you know, just doing it for the NCO, he's, he's like, "I want you to do this for the entire battalion." So it ended up not being, you know, 20 or 30 people. It ended up being like two, 300 people that I had to present this to. Wow. So I ended up doing that for the redeployment training. I think I've done the training, I, I think five times. Yeah, five times. Ended up going really well, and that's kind of when I knew, like, that my, my book was turning into something right there. 'Cause it still wasn't submitted at this point, and that experience actually I wrote in the book before we locked in the manuscript. 'Cause it was that experience that showed me that I was, I was, like, never alone. 'Cause I, I tend to ask the soldiers questions that I would raise my hand to. So I'm like, hey, I asked them seven questions. Of the seven questions, I raised my hand for five of them to be like, just to get an idea of, like, what the room has gone through and to show that we all go through something in life. And one of the questions is, "Have you ever been blackmailed?" I put that in there because it's part of my story. But I always thought I was going to be in a room and that no one was going to raise their hand for that. When, like, all five of the classes I taught, there's always, like, 10 or 20 people that raised their hand. So it's, it's not, like, an uncommon issue, unfortunately, and that's kind of when I knew. I'm like, okay this is a story that people are gonna wanna hear. It's just no one wants to be the one that, to be that vulnerable and actually tell the story. Mm. So that really helped me, like, have faith in my project with, like, the book and stuff like that. So I ended up presenting that a couple times, and then I got back from the deployment. At this point, the book is already locked in with the manuscript and everything like that. And then I go back to career counselors while I'm training again. So I sent them the new revamped PowerPoint, and they're like, "Hey, yeah, we love this. We would love for you to present it." So the PowerPoint that once got rejected, got revamped, got accepted. I did that training for them before I left the Army, and yeah, that actually went well as well. So we went, like, a full 360, turned it all around and then did something, you know, on my own. Now, as we wrap up this episode, I wanna focus on your book recently just launched. I'd love for you to go over... Obviously, we've talked a little bit about some of the content that's covered in it, but who would you feel like would benefit the most from it? Who are you hoping reads this, and what are you hoping they take away from it? Yeah, I would say the person that would probably benefit it from the most is, like, if they feel like they're alone in a situation. So one of the, one of the lines I like a lot is that, "By telling our stories, not just mine, but yours as well, we take the impossible out of someone else's." It's like if the situation's no longer impossible, then we can probably get someone not to take their life. Because now they, by, you know, presenting our stories, we, we can give that person hope, because they're like, "Okay, if this person went through this, this, and this, and I've only-- and I'm only going through this, maybe I can do it too." So that's one of the big inspirations about the book. It's, it's a book about hope. It's just there's also a lot of tragedy in it. Right. Answering the hard questions, let it be the end of the chapter, not the end of the book. And I, I think that's really important, 'cause a lot of times we want to end things because of a chapter when there's still the whole book. You know, I talk all the time about I had a guest, Douglas Brinker, two-times suicide survivor and veteran. He spoke about how suicide is a permanent, you know, result over a temporary situation. And it can be hard for it to feel temporary when you're going through, whether it's blackmail, whether it's a period of hardship, whatever it may be it feels very non-temporary. It feels like it is the whole world, and it's always gonna be that way, but it's not. It's just, as you mentioned in the book analogy, it's just a chapter, and there's every day is a new page leading towards the ultimate ending of the book, which is a, a good ending. So I think it's important that we don't let a chapter dictate the whole book. And so answering the hard questions, we're gonna have the link for that in the description below for people to check out, and please do support that brand new book launch. You know, and I'm, I'm sure Mr. Fish, you can ex- explain to everyone a- as someone who's also been a part of several books, you know, it's a lot of work. It's it's like your kid. You know, it's like you gave birth to a human being. You're like, "I put all this time and money and effort into this, and I, I wanna see it do very well in the world." So everyone please be supportful of that. And Mr. Fish, what is the future looking like for you now that you've launched a book? What is kind of like the goal and the path looking like? Yeah, so right now again, you know, I, I didn't really, As a career counselor, we're supposed to have, you know, the plans for, like, when we ETS and stuff like that. Right, right. I c- I, I, I broke all the career counselor rules, so I broke all the rules. I'm like, "I'm going to do something unconventional that might not even make any money." And so I'm really, like, leaning into it. It's like right now I'm working with, like, a PR t- PR team and seeing where that goes, and it's just like I'm just looking for, like, the right opportunity, you know, someone to get ahold of the story, and it's like whether that goes to, like, speaking, whether they want to know more about the book and stuff like that. It's just spreading the word and, you know, seeing where, what people wanna hear from there. For sure. Well, I'm glad that I was able to host you to help spread that around, and I, I definitely look forward to the future, seeing where this book takes you, and I just wanna thank you for your time guesting on the podcast today and, you know, for all that you've been able to do and turn your hardship into lessons for everyone else. I always say our look back is someone's look forward, and it can save lives in the matter of just a few minutes. So thank you for your time today. Yeah, thank you for having me on. I always love telling the story.