The Queen Of Empathy On Emotional Intelligence, Connection, And The Hero Within

In this episode, I reconnect with Karen Hall, known as the Queen of Empathy, nearly three years after we first met at Podcast Movement Evolutions in Los Angeles. Ms. Hall is an emotional intelligence leadership coach, podcaster, speaker, author, editor, publicist, event producer, and advocate for helping people recognize the hero within themselves. We discuss empathy, connection, courage, leadership, faith, parenting, public speaking, emotional awareness, and the quiet ways ordinary people become heroes.

Ms. Hall shares how her podcast, The Hero Within, grew out of her desire to help people feel less alone. After experiencing rejection, loneliness, misunderstanding, and family estrangement, she realized that people do not need identical experiences in order to relate emotionally. We explore the difference between labels and feelings, why empathy does not require shared circumstances, and how people sometimes use “I can’t relate” as an excuse to avoid discomfort or responsibility.

We also discuss Ms. Hall’s personal story, including being born two and a half months premature, surviving despite severe medical concerns, growing up with anxiety, overcoming a fear of public speaking, and learning to turn sensitivity into strength. She explains how being a highly sensitive person and an empath shaped her parenting, coaching, leadership, and spiritual life. I also share my thoughts on helping children identify emotions, asking why before punishing, and creating an environment where people feel safe enough to communicate honestly.

Later, we explore emotional intelligence in leadership and why psychological safety, trust, and empathy directly affect engagement, creativity, productivity, loyalty, and profitability. Ms. Hall explains that leadership is not merely about authority or title; it is about whether people feel safe, heard, and valued. We also discuss her work with the Los Angeles Tribune, the Global Women’s Journal, international events, Latina women, authors, speakers, and leaders who want to use their stories to serve others.

https://karenhallcoaching.com/

Website: https://coupleonukes.com

Exodus, Honor Your Heart, & Nulu Knives: https://www.coupleonukes.com/affiliates/

Want to be a guest on Couple O' Nukes? Send me a message on PodMatch:  https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1726279485588093e83e0e007

Sign Up For A PodMatch Account: https://www.joinpodmatch.com/coupleonukes

*Couple O' Nukes LLC and Mr. Whiskey are not licensed medical entities, nor do they take responsibility for any advice or information put forth by guests. Take all advice at your own risk.

Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple O' Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and this is what you could call a reunion episode. No, today's guest has not been on the podcast before. Somehow, uh, it has been about three years since I met her, and, you know, we see LinkedIn posts of each other every now and then. She's busy doing her stuff and my stuff, and somehow we just never got back to it. And I always joke that the people I meet in person, a lot of times they end up being the last people on the podcast because I get emails every day, "Book me now. Book me now." And then the people I meet in person, there's just kind of a reassurance that we're gonna get to it. We're gonna see each other again. So I, I never worry about it, but it's been three years, and- ... uh, you know, we're here. We met at, uh, Podcast Movement Evolutions in Los Angeles, you know. And I'm not sure exactly how we met. I think someone may have introduced us, but, you know, they were like, "Listen, both of you do work with heroes," different types of heroes, which we'll get into. But Ms. Karen Hall, the queen of empathy, although in my phone you're saved as the empathy empress because it's alliterative, and I like alliteration, so. Uh, but still, you are a, a powerful woman and leader in a lot of different industries and of empathy, which we'll get into that, you know, sympathy versus empathy, empathy versus passion. We're gonna get into all that, talking about podcasting, writing, all kinds of stuff. So to start us off, could you give us just a little brief 30,000-foot overview of who you are, and then we'll get back to the nitty-gritty details of growing up and everything that followed? Sure. Well, I have to say that when I first met Mr. Whiskey, um, he was so funny, and he just made me laugh. And, and we were actually at a, a booth where we were, uh, recording ourselves for iHeartRadio. And, um- Yes, yes ... and, and he was just so kind, and I could just tell that he just cared so much. And, and then we kept running into each other again and again and again throughout the event, and, and he was so friendly. You know, he remembered my name and, and, and I remembered his. And of course, he had a cowboy hat, so you know, I... My husband's a cowboy, so I Mm-hmm ... I just thought, "This guy has to be a good guy." And anyway, I just appreciate so much that, yes, we have stayed in touch, uh, but I really appreciate your mission in life. I appreciate what you're doing to bless people's lives and, and how you care about people so much and wanna make their life better and wanna help them to have, you know, greater strength, greater hope in their own life. So thank you for all that you are doing. Right, of course, and same to you. I, you know, I think that's what first drew me to you during the conversation, was what you do, which is really highlighting, you know, the heroes within. And you know, there's a lot of focus on the heroes we see externally, you know, especially military, law enforcement, and, uh, as, as it should be, you know, because there is great respect for them. You know, especially me being someone who didn't wanna go into the military, but at 17 was forced by his parents to, to see other people, many people who are not classic American heroes who said, "Yes, America," but who said, "I've got child support," "I've got a possible prison sentence," or, "I made bad financial decisions," or, "My college degree didn't work out." To have served alongside some people who didn't wanna be there but grew to love and serve the mission and, more importantly, to take care of one another. You know, I think it's definitely important to highlight those people. But also just everyday people, I think we are all capable of being heroes, not just in the cinematic sense. And that's, that's the thing. We get so focused on entertainment and drama and cinematics that we miss stuff, and I talked about that in one of the books I was featured in. It was actually to write about, you know, courage and bravery, and I actually talked about stopping a homicide-suicide plan and the weight of the moral choice of that guy's whole career and life being in my hands. That was not a big, grand display of lifting a car off of someone or of taking a bullet for someone, and a lot of our acts of courage, of heroic actions, you know, they are internal spiritual decisions that- Mm-hmm ... can have a ripple effect that's visible, but sometimes they're invisible. So I, I, I have to ask, what inspired you to wanna highlight that about people? Was it maybe there was a hero within someone in your life or something that you witnessed, or was it a l- just seeing people not be recognized and appreciated enough? That is such a good question because I, I prayed really hard about my podcast. And just to tell you a little bit of the history of how I started my podcast, I was writing a book, and I had gone through a lot of challenges. I had lived in a very rural area, couldn't find anybody that could relate to me. I would share my story. People were like, "Well, you need to reach out for help," you know? And I would, but when I would share my story, people would be like, "I can't relate to you." Hmm. So I felt very alone. So I thought, "Maybe if I write a book and I share lots of people's stories of adversity and how they dealt with it, someone will relate to one of those stories. Because maybe they can't relate to mine, but they, maybe they could relate to yours." So I started interviewing people, but then I got to the point where I didn't know how to market it and, and I did... I was working on this for some time, then I, life would happen and I'd kind of shelf it. Then I'd bring it back out, and then I'd work on it. And anyway, so then podcasting was becoming more popular, and as I was praying about my book, I really felt the Spirit lead me and say, "Do a podcast, 'cause anybody could listen, and you could interview people. You love interviewing people. You could interview people all the time." So then I was like, "Okay, well, what should I call it? What should I call it?" And as I was praying about it, those words came to my mind, The Hero Within, because I do feel like each of us have a story. My husband just laughs because when we go to the store, we'll go to Walmart or we'll take an Uber somewhere, you know, and he said, "You have this thing on your forehead that says, 'Tell me your story.' We can't get out of anywhere under an hour without s- Hmm ... the, the person telling you their story." And, and he said, "Podcasting is perfect for you because you always get the best stories out of people." And I found that every single person did have... I, I felt that they were a hero, and I felt like we came here with divine strength and with divine wisdom. And many times we're looking outside of ourself to try and get answers, but if we're just quiet, if we just return to love, if we just turn back to the, to the divine and remember who we divinely are, our divine identity, and tap back into that spirituality, whatever we call it, then I feel like we, that is revealed back to us. And then we have such strength to be able to deal with the, the challenges and the adversity in our life. And, and I do see a lot of unsung heroes who do so many, like you said, those quiet things. Sometimes it's heroic to get up in the morning. Sometimes it's heroic to go to work that day. You know, you hate your job, but you care about your family, and you still go to work when you don't want to be there. There's so many things that people do to show up- When they don't want to, and they're ba- have a horrible battle that they're dealing with, but they just keep showing up. They keep taking one step in front of the other. So like you said, it's not always this big heroic thing, but, um, but there's a l- we all are heroes in different ways. And interestingly enough, um, my dad always wanted to be a hero. He, like, like you were talking about, I think he had the, the The knight what did you say? The knight in, um- White knight syndrome ... the white knight. White knight syndrome Or they call it broken bird syndrome too. Yeah, he, he cared so much for the underdog and, um, and when he joined the military, he trained to be an EOD specialist because he wanted to, to m- make sure the bombs didn't go off, and so he learned how to do that, one of the most dangerous jobs in the military. Mm-hmm. 100%. And, um, yeah, and, and, and he'd risked that because he wanted to save lives. Well, then he also then saved lives in mental health and, and he was... he counseled people. He was a psychologist. So I, I probably got some of that from him because I also saw him be an unsung hero in so many ways. He didn't get accolades or, or things, you know, but very quietly just went saving, saving lives. People would call him and he'd say, "Let's go for a drive," you know? "Let's..." And, and he'd take people to the doctor, you know, and say, "I think you need to go to the doctor." And, and when he passed away, gosh, I'm gonna get emotional, but when he passed away, um, I asked my mom, "Can I talk and tell stories about him and his life? Can we do, like, a celebration of life?" And she said, "Sure," you know. And so I said, "Well, here's what I wanna say," and I, I let her read it. She said, "Oh, he would love that." And, um, so I talked about my dad's, you know, battle and the, the hard things that he had gone through, and so many people came up to me afterward that I didn't even know and they said, "Your dad saved my life. He saved my daughter's life. He saved my brother's life." All these people came up, and my mom didn't even know all of these people. Mm. So that, that really was a testament to me of, of that quiet service of how much good we can do to, to show love to others and to, and to lift others, you know, when they're hurting. 100%, and actually, uh, your husband and my fiance would get along because I have the same thing on my- ... I guess, on the brim of my hat that, that you have on your forehead because- ... I texted her once. I said, "Hey, my event is gonna end at, you know, 10:00 PM, and I'll come pick you up afterward. We'll get dinner." And she goes, "Well, I don't expect to see you till 9:30." I said, "Well, what is that supposed to mean?" She goes, "You always stay and talk to people and network for hours after every event is over. You network on cruises you go to. You network at the grocery store." "You literally talk to people on the sidewalk." She goes, "I don't expect... I'm just gonna eat dinner by myself, and then we can go get dessert together." And I said, "No, I'm getting you as soon as the event ends." And then, um, a bunch of people stopped me after the event. They wanted to pray over me. They wanted me to help with nonprofits, and I was like, "You don't understand. I have to prove my fiance wrong. I can't talk to you right now." "But I can't tell you no, don't pray over me," so so I was late to picking up my fiance, but I was on time by her expectations because, um- I really do be just going out and, uh, doing that stuff. Because like you said, every- everyone has a story, you know? Um- Mm-hmm. I, I think one thing that you mentioned, which perplexes me, but, uh, maybe people just don't have this skill, I think it's a skill that you can develop, is you talked about it, like, as, as if relatability is required for empathy, and that's not the case. People are saying, "I can't relate to your story." Mm. Well, I've had people on this show talk about finding their wife committing suicide in a closet and trying to save her life. I've never been in that situation, but I can tell you I can understand and I can do my best to try and understand to the max of my capabilities what that must have felt like and, and what emotional support you need. And it doesn't require me to relate to it. But people wanna use not relating as an excuse to not be involved. Mm. That's the truth about it. Because here's the thing. If you can't relate, you can ask. And what I mean by that is if you don't know how to help someone because you haven't been in that situation, just ask them what they need. And maybe they don't know what they, they need and, and then you two figure it out together. But it's so easy to give help. We c- can just... The thing is it's just as easy to make excuses not to, and, and that's the sad truth about it. And I think, you know- I agree ... I, I believe that All of our stories are relatable to someone somewhere. You know, maybe it's not every person you meet at the grocery store or in a taxi cab, but there is someone out there going through it, and that's why we do what we do with these podcasts and our work on stage. Mm-hmm. Because it's about reaching the right person at the right time. It's about recovering loudly so others don't die quietly, and so that our look back can be someone else's look forward. It's not just about have other people gone through these situations, it's are people gonna go through them possibly, and can we prevent that? You know? So in that spirit and sense, I'd love for you to share, was there any particular story or reoccurring theme that really stood out to you? Like, is there maybe something heroic that a lot of people are doing that really surprised you that you didn't realize were out there? If that question makes sense, hopefully. Um, well, I just, I wanna just touch a little bit about, on what you just said about relatability. For sure. Because, because I thought it was very interesting, too, that so many people responded that way, because I thought, "We don't have to have gone through the same thing." You know, like, I had friends that had gone through divorce. I had never go- been divorced, but I understood rejection. I understood loneliness. And so I would tell- Mm, mm ... people, you know, "You, you haven't maybe gone through what I've gone through, but I imagine we've had the same feelings." Mm. And, and we've probably, we, we can b- we can relate to the feelings in each other. Right. And like you said- Focused on the labels. Yeah. Labels versus feelings. Yeah. Right. And even if I, even if I don't know how to help, I can still show I care. Mm. You know? That- Mm-hmm ... that, that's not, I mean, s- but I think that, that one of the reasons it's a problem is it's uncomfortable for people. Mm. And so that excuse comes in very handy, "Well, I just can't relate." You know? Don't know what, don't know what to tell you, just can't relate. And that, I think that is really- It, it just alleviates them of the discomfort that now they're off the hook kind of thing. But okay, so what did I see, um, that surprised me in people? I think the thing that... I'm not sure if that's exactly what you asked, but the thing, one of the things that has surprised me is the raw courage that people have had that have in, in the midst when they were down and out, that they dug deeper and found a s- a greater reserve that they didn't know was there. And even people that say that they're atheists, well, almost every single one of them, I have... In fact, I've never met a single one that I've ever talked to that has ever denied s- some form of spirituality in their life, which amazes me because they'll say there's no God and all the things, but, but still, they have felt a connection to the divine somehow. And that thrills me. That absolutely thrills me that even when, first that they found greater strength, which I know that they found it from the divine. I know that that was a gift to have that additional strength. And second, that they could not connect the two, but that they did recognize something divine in their life. And, um, and frankly, it surprised me when I would talk to atheists because I thought that they would s- deny it. I thought that they would f- have nothing at all to say in, in regard to spirituality, but they did. And that's my favorite thing to talk about. So, so it, it ma- it made me very, very happy that, that people were able to do that. And, and the other thing that, that was universal was m- the, the healing that almost e- every single person that I have talked to, as they've gone through the healing, they have felt a greater capacity for empathy in their life. Mm. And, and ma- Wonderful ... many people that, that didn't feel any empathy or they didn't recognize any empathy in themself, many times they said they were very selfish or self-centered or whatever. Mm. And but after these experiences, they had so much more empathy. And I, I really believe that- It's part of the process. Some things you cannot learn unless you go through a painful experience. It's very difficult to learn patience unless your patience is tried. It's very difficult to learn empathy if you have never gone through something that is difficult or painful in your life. And some of us learn it quicker and learn it on a deeper level than others, but I think this life is meant for us to learn to care and to love each other, and sometimes those experiences, we're allowed to have those experiences hopefully to tutor us and to refine us and to help us to have compassion for others. Not that we're given those things specifically, but I think that the Lord uses those things to our benefit to help us learn those lessons. Right, and I'll paraphrase here 'cause I don't have the exact Bible verse memorized, but there is a part of scripture that says, like, "Be joyous with those who are joyous and weep with those who are weeping," you know? And, and that's, that's a direct state to that, you know? And I think that one thing is, you know, when we talked about empathy, like, it is so important, and I think when we talk about all these, the people taking action, like recovery and healing, like, it's so important that we share all of this, and I wanna get into specifically, you know, you talked about people not relating to your story. What is that story? Um, so, so one of the, one of the things that I, that I have gone through is I have, I've had times in my life where I have felt very alone, and it started... I don't know how much of my story you know from the beginning, but it started at birth. So I was born two and a half months early, and I weighed 1 pound 13 ounces shortly after birth. And then I was in an incubator for that two and a half months- Mm ... so my mom couldn't touch me. She couldn't hold me or feed me or anything. And, um, and that's, that's a long time for a baby to be all alone without its mother and, or father. And, um, and babies die, you know, from not being held. But miraculously, I survived. They did not think I would survive. They thought that I would die, but then when I did, they said, "Well, she's gonna be a vegetable." But miraculously, and only by the grace of God, I'm not, and I'm very grateful for that miracle in my life. But I came away with that with some anxiety, and so I didn't really feel like things were safe. I w- I, I was a worrywart. I still kind of am sometimes. I would plan everything, like I would time how long it would take to get to school and, and I always wanted to, you know, have everything ready and, and I, I just, like I always... I, I do a lot of research before I do things because I like to understand things ahead of time. And I did that all, all growing up. And I... But there are some things that you can't plan for, and so I, I had to really go out on, on a limb sometimes. And, and I was terrified to speak in front of people. My mom would always try and encourage me, and I was just terrified, absolutely terrified. So when I was young, um, she would try and encourage me, and, and I, I remember when I was in, when I got to high school where you had to do presentations by yourself, absolutely not You know, I did not wanna do it. And she said, "Why don't you run for s- for student body office?" And I'm like- ... "No." And she said, "I think you should." And I'm like, "No," but my mom's very persuasive. And so I did, and I won, and I was stunned. I was absolutely stunned. And then she said, "Why don't you start a club and, and be the president of the club?" And I did, and I was. And- ... and I had fun. And then she said, "Why don't you try out for drama?" But then I thought, well, people just, you know, I just have... I was I was, like, the president of the underdog club, so I just, you know, there's a lot more underdogs, so I had a lot of friends that were underdogs. But then she said, "Why don't you take a drama class?" And I'm like, "Okay, now that's going too far," but I did. And I, and I didn't, I was not successful at it, but I did do it . And then she said, "Why don't you take a public speaking class when you get to college?" And I'm just like , "Oh, my word, that's just, like, too much to do," but I did. And that was when things changed because giving a, a speech in front of a group of people, all of a sudden I saw a light bulb go off in someone's eyes when I was talking. And I was like, "Oh, my gosh, they related to something that I said." And so I realized I really love connecting with people, 'cause connection, not having connection for all that time when I was a baby, connection is extremely vital for me. So, but I have gone through times in my life where I haven't felt connected to people. I've, I've had experiences where I've been rejected, and it has been very, very painful. I've had times where I've been estranged from family members, excruciating, absolutely excruciating for me. And so when I would describe this pain that I felt, you know, people would be like, "I can't really understand what you're talking about." And, and sometimes they would look at my life and they'd say, "Well, you have this, and this, and this, so what do you have to complain about?" Hmm. A- and I'm very sensitive. I'm a highly sensitive person. I'm an HSP. I'm also an empath. So a lot of times people couldn't relate to that either. Mm. They were like, "I really don't understand the way that you think. I don't understand the way that you feel." So I had people that couldn't understand my outward circumstances, and they couldn't understand my internal circumstances. Mm. And the people that were closest to me couldn't understand me. And, and many times I was very criticized. I was criticized a lot for my personality, and many times I was doing things that opposed everyone around me. Like, the way that I parented my children, I was deeply criticized for that. Mm. I, I was told that my children were gonna turn out to be the worst possible You know, deranged, whatever, derelict Was it- Derelict ... was it like a anti -homeschooling kind of mentality? Were, were you homeschooling them or just- No, I wasn't homeschooling them, but, um- Were you too strict, quote, or? I was too... I, I reasoned too much with my children. I didn't beat my children, and so they said- Oh, okay ... you know, "You need to use the belt, and you need to... You know, why are you allowing..." Right. Because, like, like, for example, I would give them choices. I would say, "Well, do you want, do you wanna do this or do you wanna do this?" And, and one of them was my choice. Mm -hmm. Like I remember my daughter when she was about, she was about 18 months old, maybe 15 months old. She was young. It wasn't... She was just barely walking, and she had a pen in her hand. And, um, and she was in the car, in the car seat, and, but, but she took the cap off the pen. And so, you know, there was alarm. "Uh -oh, she's got a pen," you know. And I said, um, "Do you wanna hand me the pen, or do you want me to, to, um, take the pen out of your hand?" And she said, "Do it self," and she handed me the pen. And everybody was like, "Why did you do that? Why didn't you just grab it out of her hand?" And I said, "Why would I do that?" I mean, it, I got the same result. There was no power struggle. Mm. It was her choice. She made the decision, and, and we have harmony. You know? It was not necessary. I didn't need to whack her or grab it or... It just, it was so strange to me because- Mm ... but it was because I thought so differently than everybody that was around me. So it was a, it was a whole philosophy. It wasn't specifically just that I didn't spank my kids enough- Okay ... or whatever. It, it was just the way that- No, I, I get that. Yeah, it was just the way that... And I was so focused on internal motivation. I was, I was constantly saying, you know, "How does that feel when you do that? Does that feel, do you feel good in your heart when you do that?" Or, or, you know, "Look at their expression. Can you see how that impacted them?" Right. Right. You know, "When you did that." And I wasn't always saying, "I'm gonna pay you to do this thing," um, except when I was teaching them about how to, the value of money. But, but I really worked to help them to do things, not because they were gonna get punished or not get punished. I wanted them to do it for the feeling that they had inside. So I just did things very differently- Mm ... than anybody that I knew and anybody that- Right ... I was around. So I was kind of a unicorn, and everybody thought I was- Doing it wrong. Well, we've talked about that parenting style on this show before. Maybe not... I- in a similar sense to you, I'm sure you'll agree with what I say, which is, for me, so many parents jump the gun of the question why, and they just go straight to punishment or blame rather than understanding the motivation, as you mentioned, which is important, right? Mm-hmm. It's, uh, you know, we want to rationalize and say, all right, your parents, your, your parents say, "Hey, your grades are slipping because you spend too much time on your phone," rather than looking at, well, maybe they're on their phone because they're being cyberbullied, and now they have depression and anxiety, and so their grades are slipping. They can't concentrate because they're being cyberbullied. Or maybe there's- Mm-hmm ... something going on at school, right? And some- sometimes your children won't open up to you about the why, and you have to dig deeper or wait for that to be revealed after you take your own actions. But I think it's so important we look at the why. You know, a lot of people will say, "Just force your kids to do sports, you know, and they'll learn to love it later." Uh, but for me, I think I wanna know, okay, if you don't wanna do soccer, what, what's the reason? You know, is there a different sport you'd rather do and why? Um, like I said, you can't always find out the why, but a lot of the reasons why parents can't find out the why is because of the initial parenting of where children feel like they can't express the why, or they don't even know how- Mm to express the why. In fact, we did an episode with Kimberly Spencer. You know, she talked about children's emotions and vocabulary are, uh, you know, connected. So I don't know the exact study she was referencing, but basically, kids who had fewer vocabulary words had worse emotional expression because let's say, for example, they only know enraged and sad, and they don't know, well, I'm annoyed, or I'm frustrated, or I'm, I'm angry. I'm not enraged, but I'm just upset, or, you know, I'm kind of- Or scared or something ... horrible, right? Knowing these different emotions. Um- Yeah ... so it's really important that we teach our children about that stuff and set up an establishment where they feel like, "Hey, we can talk to you about the why." And that, you talked earlier about patience. Patience in digesting the why can be difficult. You know, 'cause you, you... There has to be a bit of a delay. 'Cause if you react to the why immediately, um, you can shut them down from explaining in the future. If every time I say why, I instantly get scolded even though I gave the reason rather than a conversation, um, you know, it's, it's important to teaching that stuff. Of course, you can't give them too much control where they think, "Hey, I, uh, you know, I'm a co-parent," right? I understand that- Right ... concern and stuff. Uh, but there's a balance to it, just like anything, and people just immediately always jump to the Oh, you're, you're, you're co-parenting, that's bad spectrum, or the you're too strict spectrum, right? There's, there's a balance to be had. And one thing I wanted to mention- I mean, it's so interest- Oh, go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say, it's so interesting to me too how each child is different. I have four children, and each of them have different personalities. And- Mm-hmm ... and, and, and when you were talking about, um, you know, describing their emotions, that was very important to me. And I remember before my daughter could speak, my oldest daughter, I had this picture with I don't know how many faces on, like six faces. And, and they were just little, little cartoon drawings. Mm. Very simple little drawings. And, um, and I laminated it. And, and so when she would get upset, she would scream, "Ah," this really loud scream. Mm. And I said, "Which of these faces do you feel?" Mm. And, and she would point to the one that she felt, was sc- scared or bad or whatever the thing was, and then I would teach her, "Oh, you feel sad." And then she'd nod, you know? And then immed- it was just like the name it to tame it, you know? Back then we didn't know about all those things, but, but the Spirit taught me that. Mm. And so I helped her to be able to even communicate about her feelings before she even had the, any words. She didn't have vocabulary. She wasn't speaking yet. And so, but I was so grateful because that helped her to regulate her nervous system, and that's something that, that I've also had to work on my whole life, is regulating my nervous system. So I have a real passion about being able to identify feelings and talk about those feelings, and helping parents to learn emotional intelligence so they can teach those skills to their children. Right. And then I had wanted to go back, I remembered I had something I was gonna say, and when the moment came, I just could not remember it, but I remember it now. We were talking about un- um, you know, not relating until you're in that situation, and recently I did a disability advocacy episode talking about making things more accessible to those with disabilities, going over the reality of how many people were actually disabled. I believe it was one in five people, you know? And- Mm-hmm ... talking about the broad spectrum of disabilities, and the, the guest, Mark Barlet, he shared about you are not happy for disability services until you're in that club, and then suddenly you're gonna be grateful that this stuff is set up. Because he said it's a club that does not discriminate, doesn't care gender, age, race, you could get disabled. His thing was as simple as he fell down the stairs, broke his ba- broke his spine. Uh, not complete sever- but, uh, partial severance. Just falling down the stairs, right? It's could happen to any of us. Uh, you know- Mm-hmm ... uh, and I was thinking about that, right? It's like people are like, "Why do I care about addiction recovery or suicide prevention and awareness?" And for me, it's not about, hey, I've been through it so I care about it. It's about I could end up in that position or someone I know could end up in this position. In fact, most people know someone who's addicted or struggling with some kind of mental health crisis right now. Uh, that's just how, how it is, you know? And so I think it's not always... It's kind of selfish to say, "I don't relate." It's about, well, do other people relate or could I be in this situation or could someone I know? What if that was my, you know, a great example, especially when it comes to women's advocacy, we hear, "What about if that was your sister or your daughter or your mother who had been, you know, sexually assaulted and the system wasn't set up for her? Wouldn't you wanna support them?" Or if, you know, your brother or father or son was falsely accused, wouldn't you want the system to have justice? Or, you know, if someone in your family overdosed, wouldn't you want the proper response, you know? So- It's really about living outside of yourself. But nowadays we are so bombarded and inundated from mainstream media, from music culture, from social media to, to consume and indulge in ourselves, or to only invest in the lives of celebrities. And I love, uh, we talked about the halo effect on my podcast the other day. S- Coach Wright, Steve Wright, we did a Japan to Jamaica international episode, crazy time zone, you know, struggle. But we recorded together and he spoke about the halo effect, which I think is really important. Speaking of heroes even, is just because someone is heroic or skilled or successful in one category of life doesn't give them the authority or knowledge to speak on other subjects. But because of this halo effect, a lot of people cause that to happen. So let's say someone's a famous singer, you love what they do singing, well, now they want to speak on politics or finances or something that they're maybe not specialized in. Politics is a gray area because it could be morality, but let's say it's something niche. And we're like, "Yes, you know, so and so said it, you know, blah, blah, blah." Just like, you know, a person who is good in one thing doesn't make them good in all things. But because they're a celebrity- Right ... we believe, "Oh, wow, so and so said this, we should follow this." There are people I follow in my life, um, you know, I try not to celebritize people, but there's a few people who have done great work that I follow. But, you know, like one of them is a fitness expert, like his fitness stuff is amazing. Probably one of the s- strongest, most athletic and durable guys in the world. But d- would I trust him on financial advice, uh, just because he's good at fitness? No. Now, if he had financial credentials, maybe. Or would I trust him about, you know, relationships? Maybe not. You know, and w- I think the halo effect is, uh, you know, relevant because we talk about You know, living outside of yourself. And right now we're just so attached to social media and our phones. And, you know, um, I think we need more empathy in the world for sure. Especially, you know, I've done a lot of global international work now, and I've traveled the world a little bit, and then I've also done podcast episodes on genocide in Africa. And people are like, "Who cares?" You know, "I live in America. I've got my, you know, venti coffee , you know, who cares?" And I think it's just so interesting because so many people will talk about global politics and not actually care about some bigger issues, you know? Or people- or so I talked about in a recent episode on podcast, drowning in privilege. You know, um, Tom McDonald said people are complaining about issues as they tweet on their iPhone and drink their, you know, venti coffee, you know? Uh, which probably costs more money than, uh, it would require for people to get water in Africa. You know, uh, one out of seven people about don't have a sustainable water system, and they're drinking from water that is poisonous, disease-ridden, or don't have water. Meanwhile, we have programs set up that for a l- a amount of money less than what you would spend on fast food could help people get water systems. So i- it's about, like, people are-- It's about what can we learn from that, you know? People are like, well, you- Mm-hmm ... 'cause I talked about gen- genocidal forgiveness and community integration in Africa. It's like, what does that have to do with America or bringing our first world countries that aren't experiencing genocide? Well, it's, it's about those feelings that you said. Forget the labels, look at the feelings. Community- Mm-hmm ... forgiveness, leadership, um, talking about indoctrination and mindset. But we, we live so focused on ourselves, you know? And for most people- Yeah ... listening right now, they've had more clean water today than some people have had in the past month. You know, it's, it's about really seeing the perspective Interviewing immigrants on my podcast is mind-blowing because they have more respect and love for America than the people born here. And they said, "You don't even understand the opportunities where I came from." And traveling internationally has given me that perspective. And the issue is we're not seeing a lot of global stuff. Even though the world is interconnected globally through our phones, we're so locked into certain, um, you know, pathways, especially within our own country, that we're not focused on it. And if we're looking at other countries, we're looking at the tourist destinations, you know? We're not looking at the problems. Like, Japan's a great example. Everyone goes to Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, Okinawa. I've been to some parts of Japan that if I listed right now, people would be like, "I don't know what that is. He's speaking gibberish." Because I went to local restaurants or bars where there's no customers and it's dying out because everyone's just so focused on the cities. That's with every place, you know? People say, "Oh, Japan is such a paradise. Look at the advancement in Tokyo." There are so many places where people are lonely and the area and economy is dying out in rural areas. You could look at Britain. Everyone goes to London. What about the parts of Britain that are suffering, you know? And so I, I think empathy is really important. And I think you- part of developing empathy is stepping outside of yourself and, and getting this international exposure, whether it's online or through people or whatever it is. And I think as parents, because the algorithm isn't gonna automatically push for that, we need to push for that, whether that's taking your kids on trips or introducing them to people you know or just giving them that awareness, m- reminding them- Yeah ... to always be grateful for what they have. Right. Yeah, and, and, and I, I really think that it's so important to remember that we're, we're so- we are so connected. You know, that we're brothers and sisters, you know, really. And, and, and when you have that perspective, just like you said, if it was your sister that was suffering, you would, you would think about this differently. So I think that's, that's a very important point. And as, so as, I, I didn't mention this, but I'm an emotional intelligence leadership coach, and so I just think these skills, first of all being self-aware and then being aware of others and their emotions is, is the core. It's, it's really the core of being able to build these relationships because if I'm not aware, you know, within myself maybe that I, maybe I'm uncomfortable when you talk about that topic, that people don't have clean water, and I, I feel helpless or whatever, then I may not engage and I may not think, "Well, what can I do?" So I think there's, there's a lot to that, that many people do feel helpless and they do feel uncomfortable either because of the nature of the topic or because of the nature of the issue. They get overwhelmed. They don't know, they don't know what to do, and yet, and yet when we think about the other person and how they feel, many times we can be so creative and find ways. Sometimes it's education that makes the difference, and then doing something about it, having that empathy, you know, for myself, and compassion for myself. It's okay if I feel uncomfortable. You know, I'm still gonna, I'm still gonna reach out. And having empathy for you and for the other person and caring about their situation and, and then being motivated to actually do something You remind me of this, uh, first bad date I had. I took this woman out and, uh, made her cry unintentionally because I was sharing, you know, my backstory and the work that I do, and, uh, it, it emotionally overwhelmed her. And, you know, I am in a different state. I talk about suicide and addiction every day, all day. I talk about women who were beaten and had to mop up their own blood. It doesn't bother me in the sense that I'm empathetic. I work with those people. But I guess I have a, I don't want to say tolerance, but I have an emotional buildup where I can handle and manage those subjects, you know, because that's a question I get all the time. "Mr. Whisker, how do you talk about this stuff all day and, and go to bed at night?" You know? And I guess for me, I forget that other people aren't as exposed to it as I am, and it's, it's just not a first good date conversation. People ask me, "What do you do? What's your family like?" Well, my mom told me I was gonna die alone and no one would ever love me, and I don't talk to her, and a lot of women instantly left because they said, "Oh, if you don't have a mother, you don't know how to love women." Anyway, you know, I talk about what I do- Yeah ... and then it's like too much. They're like, "This is a terrible topic." I'm like, "Well, this is what I do." But, you know, for me too, it's like what I do is in the midst of trauma and hardships, but I'm, I'm a man of recovery. I'm a man of hope, of, of faith and of recovery, so I don't see it as negative. I see everything at... I, I look at it in a forward direction, and I think some people- Right ... are looking at it only in the backward direction, especially when you're talking about what you've been through. You know, for me, it's like, well, you asked what I've been through, not what I'm dealing with right now, right? I- I've already been through this stuff. And then sometimes they'll ask, "Well, have you dealt with all of it?" And I'll be like, "I don't know. Depends who you ask to be honest." But one thing that you mentioned that I think is so important along this conversation of emotional awareness and, you know, self-awareness, social awareness, being receptive and responsive to the people around you, it's hard when we don't even know our own emotions. It's hard when our emotions- Mm-hmm ... are being told to us, for us, by a social media, uh, by an algorithm, by a TV show, by a music culture, whatever it is, by our parents even. You know, I grew up in a controlling household where my emotions were dictated, right? So I think a lot of people right now, and we know this for a fact, you know, that a lot of people don't love themselves. They don't know how they feel. They don't know what they want, but they know that they feel lonely. A lot of them are getting into toxic relationships to cope with these feelings or to try and chase after feelings that they should already have on their own. And so we are in such a, for lack of better words, a, a very tumultuous, emotional time. You know? It is a, a very- Mm-hmm ... time of emotional turmoil out there, and I think that- So many people are seeking emotions and emotional feelings through other means rather than what's first and foremost. And, you know, I was speaking about this in relation to relationships, addiction, suicide, video gaming, sex, all this stuff. It's all interconnected. Even work and identity, you know? Even, even work. Yeah, it's so true because it's, it reminds me of that country song, Looking For Love in All the Wrong Places, because we have this hole in our heart and, and we are searching for that connection. And, and the surgeon general declared we have an epidemic of loneliness. It, it is- Mm-hmm ... there is no doubt. Statistically, we have an epidemic of loneliness and that- I did a whole episode on that, and it's, it'll- Yeah ... shock you. It will shock you. And that, and that drives people to f- like you said, to find that connection somewhere, or to numb that pain. Mm-hmm. Yeah. In that episode with Dr. Anthony Sillard, that's my episode on the loneliness epidemic, uh, we actually talked about people, uh, specifically here in Japan actually, elderly Japanese men committing crime to have community in prison or to be fed and housed. Um, I just wrote a whole research- Mm ... paper about it actually. Very interesting stuff. You look at, um, he, he shared that children in the UK were getting less sunlight exposure than inmates. Prisoners were spending more time outside than children. I think he talked about, like, I think men in the United Kingdom over 45 are the, the highest loneliest population. Like, he went over all statistics and blew my mind. And we talked- Yeah ... about how we are more interconnected than ever before, but more separated than ever before in so many ways. Yeah. You know? And here's the thing that I shared with Coach Wright in my Japan to Jamaica episode, actually. Actually, it was in the Jamaica to Japan episode, which was on his podcast, so we did a reverse. But, um, I talked about how, you know, the, that, that we were separated by language and, and race, right, historically, but the day of Pentecost and the death of Yeshua was the reversal of that. And I said through the Holy Spirit, through translation apps, through everything we've developed, we have intercultural language and connection again. I said, "But even though we've gotten rid of the means of separation and racism, we've kept the mindset around it." We have the means to not be separated by language, but we're choosing to use it, again, going back to excuses. Uh, you know? Yeah. And you and I talked before this call about justification and rationalizing, which we can do for anything. And so I, I, I think it's so important. And just speaking of all this empathy, you know, how did you become the queen of empathy? You know, what, what, what- Was that kind of like a, a God-inspired, uh, title? Did someone else call you it first? Was it a passing joke, or you just woke up one day and you're like, "You know what?" "A new brand. I got it." Well, I was actually trying to figure out how to brand myself with the, the Hero Within, and, um, so I, I hired a, a branding expert, a marketer, and he said, "You need to do focus groups with all your clients," 'cause I was coaching at that, at that point in time, and I had just... I can't remember actually if I had started publishing my podcast or not. I think I had, I think I had just barely started publishing my podcast. So I interviewed all my, my clients, and I had them all fill out this, this questionnaire, and the thing... And then I had them get together, and then we shared the answers. And, um, and so I had all these people, they all said the same thing, what was one word that they would pick to use to describe me, and they all picked empathy. And I was stunned. I had no idea that that's what people would say. And as they h- as they h- you know, I, I was sharing, and another one said empathy, and another one said empathy, you know, and I'm like- Mm ... "Wow, every single one of you picked that." And, and one of my clients said, "You should call yourself the queen of empathy." And I said, "Oh, I couldn't say that because there are times when I'm not empathetic, and so I'm human, you know?" And, um, and they said, "No, you, you need to. That is something that is so unique." 'Cause many of them had been to other coaches and other therapists, and they said, "You are so unique in the way that, that you coach, and, and you have such an empathetic way." And so I, I just prayed about it, and I thought, "Okay, it feels audacious to say this, but I'm gonna say it just because it's such an important thing that I think people need to know about, and, and it's so important to me." Empathy is so important to me. And one of the other things about empathy that has been very challenging is it will be easier for me to have empathy for someone else who is struggling than it is to have empathy for myself. So part of my journey- Mm ... with empathy- Yeah ... has been learning to love myself when I'm struggling. And as a coach, so many times I have, I have said to myself, you know, "Oh, for goodness sakes, Karen, you know, you shouldn't be thinking that way because, you know, why are you discouraged with that setback? You know, as an entrepreneur, you coach entrepreneurs and salespeople and help them with their mindset all the time, you know, so you know what to do here." But that, that judgment that I would feel about myself, that wasn't empathetic. Then I'd feel shame for feeling the feeling. Then I'd feel shame for judging myself, and I'd have these layers of shame that I'd have to work through to get down to where I could finally- You know, have forgiveness for myself for feeling those things, and love myself and have empathy and realize it's okay that I, that I am h- I'm struggling with that thing. I'm human, so, you know, I'm feeling an, a normal emotion and, and, and it's okay if I am not just, you know, immediately thinking something positive and, and love myself through the process. So, so learning to have empathy for myself has been, like, one of the final frontiers where the other was, was much easier for me to have as an empath for m- most of my life. That was easy. Mm-hmm. But having empathy for myself was not as easy, even though I loved myself and I, I, I felt like I had a pretty good self-esteem. I mean, I feel like I've had a really a pretty good self-esteem in many ways. But when I couldn't do... Like, when I got my feelings hurt, it took me longer to get over it than it did other people. I didn't realize that was because I was a highly sensitive person genetically. I didn't even know that highly sensitive people were wired differently in their DNA. I thought it was just something that, because of my prematurity, I, I thought that there was a flaw in me. Mm. But then I realized, oh, this is... There, there's, there are HSP You know, um, praying mantises. And I'm like, "Oh, my goodness. I had no idea that that was, that was a thing." And then I learned the most fascinating thing, Mr. Whiskey. This blew me away, was when they studied leaders. Some of the most effective leaders are very high- s- highly sensitive people, and what happens is they, they feel things so deeply that they remember, and then they apply that. And so it's easier for them, like they, they notice things that subtle cues or they pick up on, you know, vibes from people or, or when somebody leans back and they realize, "Oh, they're not as engaged. They don't feel as safe." Just different things that a, an HSP is very effective as a leader, but they also have to have the emotional maturity to go with it. Mm. If you're an HSP and you're, and you're immature in your emotional maturity, that, that can be a problem if you're self-centered. But, but if you have the increased emotional intelligence to go with it, very effective. And that thrilled me. I was like, "Wow, it's a strength," you know? And so that helped me to, to appreciate that about myself and to offer grace to myself and to, to, uh, say, "It's okay. It's all right. You can just feel this as long as you need to, and we'll, we'll figure it out." But yeah, I think that that, that's probably why... There's many reasons why empathy has been so important to me. I have appreciated so much when other people have been empathetic to me because of feeling alone and because of feeling so misunderstood when someone else did show me empathy and cared about me. Oh, it just felt like, like salve on a wound, you know, to, to feel understood and cared about. So those are, those are probably reasons why that's so important in my life. Right, I'll have to hire you for that because I'm the same way where, you know, I preach at a online ministry, I work with people in recovery all the time. And, you know, there's a lot of times where I'm like, "Man, if I gave myself the advice I give them, how much better life would be." But, you know, it's one of the things, and it- it's written in scripture even, you know, when you are one of the teachers, you know, you're held to a higher standard. And- Mm-hmm ... I think it's, it's true. However, I think we also hold ourselves to too high of a standard, put so much pressure on us. Uh, we feel- Yeah ... everything so weightedly. And I think the more, especially with people like you or and I, who now we have a podcast, we have published books, we're on social media, having that public presence, you know- Mm-hmm you are, like, walking on eggshells almost because everything you do may be seen in the public eye and, you know, how other people take it. 'Cause what we think is worst-case scenario, the person who hates me the most, so in my case, my mom, right? You know, if they were to see me fail, how would they put it on blast? You know, and, and w- and we hold ourselves to that standard. Or I think about, I preach all the time about, uh, you know, forgiveness in a relationship with Yeshua, and then anytime I make a mistake or sin, it's like, "All right. I'm dead. I'm going to hell. That's it." You know? And, and teaching and having that grace to myself, like you said, it's, it's been very difficult. And there's a lot of times where- At the same time, working with what I do, I say, "You know, what, what would I say to one of the people in recovery or someone," you know, and then try to apply that to myself, you know? And, and the other day- Yeah ... I actually recorded a podcast episode about I took my own advice about unplugging. You know, I went for a run, and I didn't use music. I actually just went out in nature and ran and relaxed and listened to God. And because I was like, you know what? I give all this advice, you know, unplug, listen for God and stuff, and here I am running with music. So I took it off and took my own advice, and it felt so refreshing. And, you know, I try to apply the same to everything, but it's hard, you know? And people like you and I who are, you know, sensitive and perfectionist and workaholics, you know, it's, uh, just everything bad is all interconnected, you know? But I, I think it's- ... it's part of what makes us so well at working with others. And then, you know, you've mentioned the podcast quite a bit. It's a significant part of your journey, but it's not the only part. You do a lot of other things that I've seen on LinkedIn and, or, you know, and other stuff. So I'd love to get into some of the other stuff, uh, maybe if you wanna start with book writing- Sure or whatever you think is, uh, second after the podcast, you know? Yeah, so, so I talked about my, my terror of public speaking and then overcoming that, you know, that fear. And then, um, but, but I would do it, the thing, the place where I spoke the most as an adult was at church. And, um, and so I didn't have to memorize things. You know, I could look at my notes if I wanted to, you know, but I, but I loved it. I loved teaching. I would teach at conferences, and then I started doing some corporate training. And, and I, I was like, oh my gosh, this is so much fun to teach truth to people in business. And my husband and I had been buying bankrupt businesses and, and by the grace of God, He helped us to turn those around and to, to be able to provide for our family. He did the, um, the, a lot of the Behind the scenes work, I was the one who was, like I said, I was the sales and marketing person, so I was out building the relationships. And, um, anyway, as we, as I was doing that and I, as I was speaking more and more, and then as I started coaching, and then being, uh, uh, you know, s- with the podcast, it was scary for me because I didn't really like the way my voice sounded on a recording. I was getting used to hearing it in my ear. I can relate to that. I'm empathetic to that. Yeah. So I could, I was okay if I was speaking out loud in a group and I could hear it then, but the recording part I did not like. And so I, I would listen to it again and again, and finally I just said, "You know, I'm not gonna listen to it, I'm just gonna put it out there." And I had so many people comment on the quality of my voice, and they said, "Your voice is so soothing." And I said, "You think that?" And they're like... I mean, I had so many people say that to me. And I w- and, and then my granddaughter said it to me and, and she was just, like, I don't know, three or so, and, and she said, "Grandma," she said, "I love the way you speak." And I said, "You do?" And I didn't know what she was talking about. I didn't know what she meant. And she said, "Yes, I love the way you, you say that." And I said, "Say what?" And she said, "You say everything so gentle." That's cute. It's like, "Oh, bless you, you little sweetheart." And, and I realized, oh, it's, it's not- It, it, it, it means something to someone else. And, um, and I think they were feeling the spirit, you know, when I was talking because I am talking about, you know, blessings and, and, and the Lord so much during my, my messages. So I think that's what it is that they feel. But, um, but then I started speaking on stage, and s- so live stages and virtual stages, and big audiences, really big audiences. That was scary. That was really scary, and I just prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed my guts out, you know, before I'd get on stage. And I would be, I would be afraid because, um, you know, like, like you don't wanna look over here and read your notes. You know, you wanna stay focused on, on the people that you're speaking to. And I, I had to really rely on the Lord, and I remember being so worried about the way that, again, not the tonal quality, but the words w- was I saying the words that God wanted me to say? And, and sometimes I would feel very impressed to say certain things, but I couldn't remember it. When my emotions would escalate and I would be dysregulated, I wasn't at my prefrontal cortex, so I couldn't remember what I was supposed to say. And I would forget, and I'd be s- I'd be hard on myself. I'd be like, "Oh, Lord told me to say that," and I couldn't remember. So then I'd just say, "Okay, Lord, y- you know that I can't always remember things when I'm, when I'm nervous, and so I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna be there. And if you'll please loose my tongue and please bring things back to my remembrance, I'll just be there, and I'll be..." And, uh, and then when that would happen and He would bring it back to my remembrance, oh my gosh, it was so thrilling to me. I got so excited. And then like I was telling you, when the people, when the light bulb would go off in their head because that thing meant something to them, oh, it just made me thrilled. It made me thrilled 'cause it wasn't my message. It wasn't my words. It was His. I was just the conduit to get to be the messenger to deliver that message, and that was what brought me the greatest joy as a public speaker. So then I started producing events where I created platforms for other people, not just on my podcast, but other stages where people could also speak. And so to help other people overcome their fears and then share their story and their message- It, it made me so happy. And then what I realized, somebody said to me one time, um, "You're really a voice to the voiceless because you give permission to us to overcome our fears. You speak for us until we can overcome our fears, but when we watch you and we see what you've gone through, then, then we feel empowered bit by bit until we can do it." And I realized, oh my goodness, 'cause I think that really is the case. Other people gave a voice to me before I could do it, and then... And I, I had many mentors who I admired, so I felt really happy that I could be a voice to the voiceless by sharing what they wish they could share, and also giving them permission to empower them to share it. So that's what I did next, and then I, um, I've also published stories because I was writing that book ever since I've been a girl. I was... I admired, uh, Little House on the Prairie, Laura Ingalls Wilder. I wanted to be a writer like her and, um, so that was my dream. Ever since I've been, like, nine years old, I started writing my first book at that point in time. And, um, and so when I published my, my story for the first time, so exciting to just hold it in my hand, and then to help other people to publish their story. So now as an editor, I meet with them and they, they give me their first draft, you know, and it's so vulnerable. It's like, oh my goodness, I'm sharing my heart in this vulnerable story about myself. And then I'll say, "Oh, that was so good, but I wanna know more about this," 'cause I kind of feel this intuitive feeling. I am very intuitive, but I feel like God is saying the people that are gonna read this are gonna wanna know more about this specific thing. So then I ask more questions, and that process is a little scary for a lot of authors because they're like, "Oh, I don't wanna tell that part of my story. That's, that's kind of scary and vulnerable. What if people don't like me?" And, and what it, what they usually say is, and I said this, "What if they don't like what I say?" But it really translates to, "What if they don't like me because of what I say?" Mm. Mm. So to help people to overcome that fear and to be able to share that story on stage and in print, because in print it's there forever. You know, sometimes on, on the stage maybe people can't find it as well, but print is a, you know, it's there. So I, um, again, to help people to feel empowered, to feel confident, and to feel- Really connected with the divine when they go through that process to be able to share that thing that really is their mission in life. And, and it's really the journey of what got them to be able to, one, have that mission, and two, have the courage to act and to follow the promptings that they have to do that mission in life. So those are, those are the things that the real me to no end, and then I also coach, um, you know, leaders about how to increase their emotional intelligence so that they can build teams around them, so they can create psychological safety. Because we talk about, you know, building teams, we talk about teamwork, we talk about leadership, but it really comes down to... And, and it's not simply communication. It's the energy that we feel with somebody. You may say all the right words, and you may have all the statistics and everything may look really good, but if I don't feel safe with you, I'm not going to share the same things. And m- many times the leader thinks, "Well, I've got the title, so I've got the authority. I'm the leader." But leadership isn't about titles. It's about trust, and trust is the currency of leadership. So if I feel psychologically safe with you, I'm gonna share things with you. I might say, "You know, I noticed over here we could do this differently," because I know that you care about me, and I know that you'll be willing to listen. If I feel safe, I will also tell you, "You know, I'm not sure that's such a good idea because I th- I noticed this thing over here. Maybe we could look at this." So if you say numbers are down and, and you're dysregulated and you come into a meeting and you're, you know, hollering or you're, you know, tense and everybody's worried, they're gonna shut down, and, and the innovation stops, the creativity stops. 'Cause we can't access our prefrontal cortex where our higher level thinking is. We go back to our primitive part of our brain. All our resources go there. Fear takes over and, and we don't have the same ability to communicate or to innovate. So psychological safety is extremely important in, in a, in creating an effective leader and an effective team 100%, I agree with that a lot. You know, I've done a lot of episodes on leadership, especially poor military leadership, and, you know, a lot of that ties into what you're talking about right there. And then, you know, you're talking about writing, speaking, coaching. This is why I said you're busy, I'm busy, and, you know- ... always busy. And then, um, you know, I wanted to talk about also the LA Tribune and what you do with that as well. Yeah. So, so with the Los Angeles Tribune, I'm the editor of the Global Women's Journal, and also, um, that's where I produce events where we have global events that go to all, you know, all across the world, every continent. And we have speakers that come and speak, and then, um, and then I publish their stories also in print and s- either in the journal or in the news or in, um, anthologies or books. And so we have a lot of things that we have going on at the Los Angeles Tribune, and, and a lot of people that are, um, connected and, and building those relationships and building that community. We, we have a strong feeling about service and about helping people to, to find those things in common with each other. We don't have, um, selling at our events, which is very unusual. Most of the events that you go to, most every summit that you go to, many times it's a pitch fest the whole time. Mm-hmm. But ours are not. Ours are very positive, motivational media, and, and so I do a lot of training with my speakers and my, my authors that this is what the audience wants. We want to uplift the world. We want to- Right ... change the, the status quo of negative, 17 negative news to one positive, and, and our CEO- Mm. Mm ... Mo Rock, that's his, that's his mission. And, and we, we f- fully believe that that is possible, so that's, that's what we do there at the Los Angeles Tribune. Right, and it doesn't stop there. You also speak Spanish. You, you do the Spanish Journal- ... if I read correctly. I do. Y- yep, I am, I am with the, the, um, the Spanish- I'd assume you speak it if you read and edit it, but maybe, maybe, maybe not. Maybe you only know the grammar. I don't know. Yeah, I, I am not proficient in it. I have, I, I have a love for the culture. I absolutely love the culture, and my son lived in Guatemala, and we have many friends, um, we're, we're in Arizona, so we have many friends in, you know, from Mexico and, and I just, I just have a love for the culture. I, I... My husband said, "I think you should've been born Hispanic," because when they get together, they hug each other and they kiss each other on the sides of the cheeks, and I just love that you know? And he said, "You either should've been born Italian, 'cause you can't stop talking with your hands, or you should've been born Hispanic because you love to hug everyone." And so, um, so I do love the culture, and I, and I felt that they, they love family so much, and that's, family is so important to me. Mm-hmm. I have four kids, and, um, and they're married, and I have seven grandkids now. My husband and I have been married for, uh, 41 years, and so family is extremely important to me, and it's, it's challenging, you know, keeping a family together and, and all the different personalities and different ways of doing things and our different backgrounds coming together and in-laws, you know, joining the mix. And so there's a l- a lot of challenges in family life. And, and I felt I really wanted to provide a platform where H- you know, Hispanic population could have a place to showcase. And, uh, and the other thing that I thought was very, that attracted me to that was I wanted to really help the Latina women have an opportunity to have a voice, because traditionally they haven't had as much of a voice, and I, I wanted to, to change that as well. I agree 100%. In fact, uh, a majority of the women at the Warriors of Hope event that I hosted and emceed, uh, were Latina women who were victims of domestic violence, sexual violence- Mm-hmm ... and other stuff. So, uh, you know, a lot of, uh, women are experiencing that. But I think when it comes to, uh, women of color and, and ethnic groups, they get not as much attention unfortunately when it comes to those matters. And so it's really important to highlight those communities. And yeah, I agree 100%. And then just with your book, I mean, um, who do you think would really benefit from it? Who do you think it's really for? Um, of course, as an author, I know everyone, everyone. But, um- ... if you, if you had to pick really to, to really focus in on. I would pick, um, the CEOs who don't understand why their team is not engaged- Mm ... who are trying to figure out how to have more, you know, productivity out of their team. And they hear about emotional intelligence, but they're thinking, "I don't know what this buzzword is. What's, what's this?" Mm-hmm. "What's this conversation all about? And does it really make a difference?" Because I remember, so my husband, um, started out, when he went to college, he trained to be a trainer like Stephen R. Covey. And so he went to a big corporation, and he was training the, you know, employees and, and teaching them all of these same skills that Stephen R. Covey taught. And I remember that when the, when the numbers would go down and revenue would go down, they would always look to that department to say, "We, we've got to cut, got to cut over there." And they s- they started saying that it was soft skills. So the training department was always a soft skill that had to go when the numbers were down. So that was traditional, very traditional, that for years and years and years, if they were ever gonna cut, that's what they were gonna cut. And anybody that focused on customer service was rare, but that was the first thing to go. Well, when the Harvard Business Review did a study, they first attacked the, um, notion that also was a false belief that you can't teach an old dog new tricks. And so you either were born with an emotional intelligence or you weren't, and it wasn't something that you could teach. And they realized, no, after so many studies, you can teach emotional intelligence. You can teach these things. And when the leader learns it, then that comes, starts at the top, and then that example- Right. It goes down. Yep ... comes down, you know, to the rest. And then they found that as they increase the emotional intelligence of the leader and the team, then there was greater engagement. And so people innovated. They were more creative. There were, there was greater customer, client, I mean the client, um- You know, relationship was greater and they felt care- the client felt cared for, so loyalty was increased. Referrals, the word of mouth, they br- would tell about, "Hey, they love me over here. You should come over here." So then, um, because people felt heard and they felt safe enough to share, the productivity went up, and then profitability went up. So engagement, productivity, and profitability is those three key pillars that we're still wondering, how do we get those numbers up? Those are the keys, and it all stems from emotional intelligence. So I would target any leaders who are trying to increase those things by teaching them what the Harvard Business Review teaches is that emotional intelligence and teaching psychological safety and trust is the root of how to increase engagement, productivity, and profitability. Right, and honestly, that goes for whoever you are. That, that will filter into every part of your life, really. You know, how you lead- Absolutely ... your family, how you lead your friend groups, how you lead your social groups. So I agree 100%. So we're gonna have, uh, you know, links in the description below for your books, website, podcast, all that you do, coaching, all this stuff. Busy, busy, busy. On that note, what is the future looking like? Any big projects coming up or any new developments you think, or kind of just staying in the lane that you're in right now? So I am gonna be working more closely over the bestseller division at the Los Angeles Tribune, so that's something that I'm really excited about helping authors now leverage. N- so they've got the book, now what? They've spoken on a podcast, now what? Mm-hmm. So I'm excited to help people with that too, and to help them to market their book as well, because I, I'm also a publicist, so I help people to learn that. And I don't do all of those things every day. Right, right. So it's not like I, you know, as we, you and I talked about, you know, there are, I, there are things that I am, you know, like I just did a 10-day event in, in May on leadership, and it was- Wow they were long days. Well, that's what I did then. And, and so I'm not- Yeah ... I'm not doing every single one of the things that I talk about. Excuse me. I- And then you took 10 days off, you got a spa bath- ... cucumbers over the eyes. You're like, "No podcasting, no writing, no nothing. I just gotta-" Right. "... decompress." Yeah. I, I wish I could have done that, but I didn't quite get to do that. But I did, but I did, I didn't do another summit, right? Right. Right after that. Right. But I, but I kind of, I kind of, you know, just rotate the different things that, that I'm focused on. I, I had some family things that I did, and I, and I, um, I had to travel out of the country for some things, so it was, it was very, um... A- and it was unexpected. So I, I... It's, but it's interesting with life because there's so, we have so many opportunities and, and if we just ask, "How can I be of service today? How can I use my gifts today, Lord?" He will open our eyes and, and it may be as simple as smiling at someone. It may be someone may come to our mind, and maybe it's a text message. I can't even tell you, people think, "Oh, it's, that doesn't really help, does it?" Yes, it does. When I get a text message and someone just says, "Just thinking of you," oh, my goodness, I feel so happy. And, and even if I am feeling low, maybe I'm even depressed, uh, there are times when I have felt that way. I, I will think, "Okay, what is one thing I can do? I am not in, I, I'm, I'm not getting out of my pajamas, so I can't go take dinner to somebody, but I could text somebody. I could send somebody a song. Maybe I can't even think of anything to say today, but I could send them a song. I could send them a-" I don't know what you call those little GIF things, but you know, one of those little emojis. You know, that's a, that's a, that's a hot topic right there, 'cause I say GIFs, like giraffe or gyroscopic device. Some people would say GIFs. Um, you know, s- depending on what you mean, it could be a meme, but I actually had a guy on my show call it a meme, which I was kinda speechless. I didn't... I had... It was just a moment of silence on the podcast. That's funny. Yeah, I know. That's funny. He was determined in that lane, 'cause I said meme, and he goes, "Meme." And i- it's like, all right. He's- He was the first person in my entire life to call it a meme. Um- Yeah. Or, or did he call it- Well, I just had- ... a meme? A m- a m- he called it something. He did not... I think he called it a meme, and I was like, "Meme." But, um, one thing I'll warn is don't... Those are all great, um, occasional substitutions if you're lacking something, but don't have it be your full-time substitution. And what I mean by that is a lot of people nowadays- Right ... they just only send memes back and forth. They don't text, they don't call. Oh, oh, right. I actually got into a confrontation with someone who said, "That's not enough for you," and I said, "You know, a real human relationship is beyond that." Yes- So real ... I understand the meme shows you're thinking about me, 'cause you know that I would find this funny, or that I would be as equally disturbed. Uh, unfortunately I get more of those, like, "I saw this, so you have to see it. This is disgusting." Um- Yeah ... or, you know, you think that this is me because it's a cowboy, you know, running off into Japan with a bunch of chicks. You know, whatever it is that, uh, people will send, or maybe sometimes it's a Bible quote or sometimes it's, you know, a podcast guest reference. But for the most part, it's like, but that can't be the substitute for phone calls and text messages. No. In addition, in addition, everything should be done in addition to that baseline connection. Um- Absolutely ... yeah. You know? It- Thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. Yes. Because I only- I just wanna warn that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you said that, because I only say that because sometimes people say, "Well, I can't do anything because my life is so stressful." Mm-hmm. And I say, "It only takes one second to push that button," you know? And- Right ... and so we can still reach out, but it is not a substitute, and I'm so glad that you, that you, you know, clarified that because I certainly do not want that either. I, I, it- Yeah ... as I mentioned, connection is absolutely vital to me and, and that real human connection. And I just have to applaud you, Mr. Whiskey because- Oh, thank you ... you create that connection with me, with your guests, and with the community so that we feel cared about because we know you care. We know that you care about your guests, and we feel that you care about the audience as well. So thank you. Thank you for caring about me. 95% of them. Thank you for- You know, every now and then. No, I'm kidding, but- Thank you ... I, I appreciate that Thank you. Thank you for staying in touch with me all these years, and thank you for having me as a guest on A Couple of Nooks. It's just been great to be with you, and I applaud the work that you are doing to help improve mental health. Thank you so much. And honestly, like I say with a lot of guests, I can't believe it's been three years, two years, one years. When you do so much, I mean, also I never sleep. I mean, you know, I was up till 2:30 AM this morning. You were emailing me about an interview. Um, I, I live so much life, but it, it just, it goes by so fast when you do so much. And there's people, and I'm like, man, it's already been a year since I met you, or three years. And it's like, you know, a lot of these people that I meet, we meet annually at these conferences. Sometimes you see them at more than one conference. But if you only see them once, it's like that milestone, you know. But, um, I am thankful for, as much as I bash social media and stuff like that, I am thankful for the good connections that it does have and for being able to see. And unfortunately, as a podcaster, I tell people, listen, every person who's ever been on my show asks me to follow their social media. I can't keep up with every post. I try my best. In fact, I'd say I'm better than most people in the sense that I like every post I see from someone I know. I, I, I usually don't watch the whole thing, I'll be honest with you, but I like it to support them. And the amount of people- Yeah ... who have met me at a conference or on my podcast and reference one of my own social media clips to me that I know they didn't like, that agitates me, because so many people will be like, "That clip was so funny or insightful." And I'm like, "Why didn't you like it?" And they're like, "Oh, you know, I, I saw it while I was scrolling, and I just didn't have the time or capacity to hit the like button. Uh, but I did like every other meme I saw after that." You know, so it, it can be frustrating sometimes. I'm sure you understand. But I am thankful at least that I, you know, we are connected whether we see it tangibly or not. And that's one thing I wanna remind everyone, especially people who are feeling depressed, anxious, or suicidal. We are so interconnected and, uh, you know, not reaching out doesn't equivalate to not caring. You know? We, we have to make room for understanding and patience of life circumstances. But if you are listening to this, go reach out to the people in your life, you know? It's always important to reach out on a routine- Whether that's once a day, once a week, whatever it is, just make sure. Even if it's spontaneously. One of the things you said the best is sometimes people will just cross our mind, and I've seen a lot of good sermons on sometimes God is just nudging us, like, "Hey, this person needs us." You know? Or it might be, "Well, I had a dream about this person I haven't seen in five years." Uh, you know, sometimes that's a sign. Um, just be careful of the devil bringing back people into your life who God took out for a reason. But again, everything's balance and caution. But Ms. Queen of Empathy, Karen Hall, so great... Long title. So great to have you here. Uh, like you said, connecting after three years, but, um, great conversation. You know, I think a lot of what we talked about is all interconnected. I hope people will take something away from it. And I just wanna remind everyone listening, in the, in the style of your podcast, you know, there is a hero within you, and maybe they've already done something heroic and you don't even realize it. Maybe it's yet to happen. But always be ready and preparing yourself for that, and remember that it's not about big cinematic moments, but it's about what you do in the every day and how you show up. That's exactly right. Thank you. Thank you again. It was a joy to be with you.