In this very special episode, Sivan Shachnovitz joins me to share her story with all of us. We talk about her bold decision to get divorced a few years ago and find out who she really is for the first time. She has gone through stages of her self-discovery and recently came to me to have a boudoir experience, which became an integral part of her process. We talk about being in survival mode, trauma, money mindset, self-worth, body image, redefining what sexy means, taking full ownership of our lives, and more.
Don't miss this heartfelt and inspiring conversation that every woman will relate to in some way.
I would love to hear from you on Instagram!
https://www.instagram.com/rebeccasigalaboudoir
In this very special episode, Sivan Shachnovitz joins me to share her story with all of us. We talk about her bold decision to get divorced a few years ago and find out who she really is for the first time. She has gone through stages of her self-discovery and recently came to me to have a boudoir experience, which became an integral part of her process. We talk about being in survival mode, trauma, money mindset, self-worth, body image, redefining what sexy means, taking full ownership of our lives, and more.
Don't miss this heartfelt and inspiring conversation that every woman will relate to in some way.
I would love to hear from you on Instagram!
https://www.instagram.com/rebeccasigalaboudoir
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Body Image Revolution. I am so excited today. Today is my very first interview and I'm really excited about this because for so long I've been envisioning my podcast and you know, obviously I started out doing these solo episodes, but now I wanna bring on people that I've actually envisioned interviewing for a really long time, and I'm so excited to share them and their stories with you. And really the goal for me is to have raw, authentic, real conversations about things that are connected to our bodies, connected to body image, and improving our self-concept. And I think it's really important to share stories in general because it breaks stigmas. Because it helps women not feel alone in their struggles. Because it inspires people to really like to heal, to grow, to be their most authentic selves. And I've done this for a long time on my blog and on social media, so it's exciting to be able to do this here today on the podcast. Today we have Sivan Shachnovitz and she is a longtime friend of mine. She's a single mom of two living in the same city as me, in Efrat. She currently works in high tech, she has her own podcast. She's smart, she's funny, she's talented, and really the first, like the perfect first guest to have on my show. My show? Is it a show? I guess so.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Yes. It's your show for sure. Listen, I'm on a show, so you could be wherever you want. Perfect. Definitely
Rebecca Sigala:on a show. Perfect. Uh, we actually met several years ago. She was a filmmaker and I was a wedding photographer along with my husband. Yehoshua was actually just reminding me the first time we met at this wedding, and I was like, oh my gosh. Wow. You have such an amazing memory.
Sivan Shachnovitz:But I do remember. Well, I was like a different, that was like a, I think I was like nine months pregnant, right? You guys met me I think at the end of my like second pregnancy and I was just schlepping around like all of this equipment. I mean, I think about that now. It was crazy. But yes, we did meet then, yeah,
Rebecca Sigala:We met then, and then shortly after you did my first promotional video for my boudoir business. Which actually is my only promotional video, and it was amazing. And we've been friends ever since. And a lot has changed for you in the last few years. You've gotten divorced and you're rediscovering yourself in a lot of different ways, and I'm excited to talk a little bit about that. And also the reason why we kind of like started talking about your story even in more depth is because, four months ago you came to me and you were interested in having a boudoir experience and it's been so incredible to witness you through that journey and all the realizations and everything that you've come through in the last few months and just really a continuation of this journey that you've already been on. So I'm really honored to have you. Thank you so much for being here today,
Sivan Shachnovitz:Sivan. I'm so grateful and it's actually really cool because I feel like now that we realize, like the first time that we met was I think the first time you told me about what you do. And I remember thinking like, wow, that's amazing. I wonder if there'll ever be a point in my life where like that will be relevant for me. Because yeah, we'll go into a little bit why it wasn't before, but I think it was So
Rebecca Sigala:do you think it was, did you think it would be? Because I feel like we never even had that conversation
Sivan Shachnovitz:about boudoir before. It's so interesting. Like, only after we kind of started working together and you started asking me important questions I think I'd kind of like blocked it off. Like I really never saw myself. First of all, I never thought I would pay somebody money to like, take pictures of me. Like I, when you really like break it down, like I had to get over that fear that like, what? I would like spend money on something so about me that like doesn't have any product attached to it. I'm not gonna, like, it's not gonna turn into anything. Like how, how could I waste that kind of money on myself? But even more than that, I never thought of myself as somebody who was like would want to see pictures of themselves in, in any capacity, let alone like body. So actually this has been very eye-opening and I don't even, I honestly don't even think of it as boudoir. So I feel like for me that word just sounded too unapproachable. Like I, I was never gonna do a boudoir shoot, like what is a boudoir? But when I just thought of it as like my body. Yeah. Oh, I wanna see my body in
Rebecca Sigala:that way. That's really funny. Cause I think in the last episode I was just talking about how I don't really feel like boudoir really encapsulates everything that I do. But it was just kind of like the first terminology that made sense. And I do kind of like the way that it sounds
Sivan Shachnovitz:and people recognize. Recognize, like as an industry term, it makes a lot of sense, but I think that was one of the things that I was afraid of was like, oh, that's just not for me. Like, that's too sexy, or like, whatever that means. Yeah. Again, I never really thought about it. I just was like, no, no. But then, yeah, this year I was like, okay, because I really did a lot of work on like trying to give to myself things that I felt would like. Be meaningful gifts cuz no one else is gonna give me it. Uh, and this was like a really meaningful gift to myself and it was actually incredibly, it, it, it really changed a lot of things in my life, as dramatic as that sounds. So, so beautiful. I definitely couldn't, I could not have worked.
Rebecca Sigala:Doesn't sound dramatic to me. It might sound dramatic, right? That's true. You've gone through this with a
Sivan Shachnovitz:lot of women. You're like, no, no, I know. It's very life-affirming, obviously, is what I'm trying to tell people.
Rebecca Sigala:Definitely. So, oh my gosh. Even through that, I have like so many questions for you, but the first thing, like where I wanna start is, where were you at, like right before you contacted me to do a boudoir experience? You've gone through a lot of things in the last few years. You've gotten divorced and kind of like gone on this journey, even in your career and as a mom and all these different parts of your life. I'm just curious, like where were you at with your relationship with yourself? I think we talked in like October. What was that like? How were you relating to yourself? What did you think of your body? What did you think about your sexuality? Like,
Sivan Shachnovitz:where were you? Such a good question. I feel like I should have kept a diary of the past few years, like flip back and be like, where in my journey was I I mean, honestly, my body. is, uh, I think like probably most women, this weird thing that I've been connected to my entire life and yet have a very strange relationship with And, uh, definitely when I was married, Did not have a good relationship with myself. I wasn't really, I was trying not to be self-aware. I think anyone who's been in an unhealthy relationship can like, relate to that feeling of like, if I look at myself too closely, I'll realize I'm incredibly unhappy and then that just won't Yeah. Work out well for me. Cuz it will be, it will cause too much damage to my life. So I really tried not to think about it. And then after getting divorced I was religious when I got married and, uh, I'd never been with anybody else but my now ex-husband, like not even dating. Uh, so I was totally, how old were you when you got married? I was, when I got married I was 21, about to turn 22. And then when I got divorced I was 28. So my entire twenties was with one person who I wouldn't say is a great partner. So it wasn't. wasn't particularly something that I was like getting off the train and really excited to try again. I was like, oh, it was so horrible the first time. Like, uh, and that was actually, I
Rebecca Sigala:think not a, not a
Sivan Shachnovitz:great partner is like not a great, yeah, not a great whatever. We don't have to, isn't a podcast about him. It was about me. So I'm the main character and, uh, no, it was really, it was an unpleasant, uh, experience. And it took me a while to even acknowledge that like there had been abuse and, and that I had become somebody different than when we got married. So I really didn't even think about myself in terms of like, who am I as an individual until I dated a few people. Because you have to do that because after when you get divorced, you have to, you know, get back on the horse and whatever. And then this year I realized like I really just wanted to be alone. Like I wanted to be by myself and with myself, and that forced me to kind of look at myself in a different way. Like as opposed to What were the, something else looking at me? Just what were
Rebecca Sigala:the questions that you started asking yourself after you got
Sivan Shachnovitz:divorced? I had a really smart friend who basically said to me, there's two types of people after they get divorced. People do two things either they just keep going and make the same mistakes again and will find themselves in the exact same position in a few years. And then there's the people who like take a, a big step back and they're like, whoa, how did I get into that relationship? What about me caused the situation? Not like why it's my fault, but Right. I'm responsible for my life and if I made these choices, why? Like who am I that created this situation? Mm-hmm. And so I really took time to just be. How did I end up here? What have I learned? How am I gonna make things different? I really didn't wanna get swept away in any sort of like, relationship or, or even make any big life decisions. Like I really just wanted to start from scratch. Like, who was Sivan at 21? How did she get there? Why does she feel this way about herself? And what are we gonna do now at 28 so that it doesn't happen again? But I really, honestly, I, I chose things to start with that were a lot easier, like career and friends and religion. I feel like I, I saved my body for the, for the last, the last thing, the last thing because actually when, when you start to improve different areas in your life and things, start to get better and you start to think of yourself more positively, all of a sudden you realize all the areas that are really not doing so well. And it was only after I cleaned up some of the mess in my mind of other things, was I able to be like, oh, okay. I should probably,
Rebecca Sigala:so what was the first thing?
Sivan Shachnovitz:Uh, money. Mm, I didn't, I had to open up a space where I could be willing to accept that I could make more money than I was making. And so it was like a whole mindset thing. Like I had to see myself as somebody who could achieve that and was just changing how I looked at myself and that I was capable of managing my finances. And I always was. That's the funny thing, like I was, I always was right. Money. I always was the one that had a career. So like, it shouldn't have been a big deal, but my mind was like, you're not worthy. You're not gonna be able to do it as a single mom. You're gonna fail. You're gonna have to go back and live with your mom. And, uh, which isn't terrible, but just definitely not something I wanted to do. And then after my career I was like, okay, I need to be a better mom. So I worked on my parenting. Yeah, I was really, I was the LA and then after I was like, Okay. I think I'm a good mom now. I think I'm,
Rebecca Sigala:it was kind of like you were in survival mode, so you needed to make more money. Exactly. And you're like, ok, now this is the first thing that I have to look at. And then parenting of course, because like they're going through a lot too. Yeah. And then what? And then what, dating, sexuality, body, that kind of
Sivan Shachnovitz:thing. Yeah, I mean that's what's interesting I think I feel like I've always had a really different perspective on my body and my sexuality than maybe I was raised to have, or even the conver, like, I just always looked at it differently and it wasn't a conversation that we ever had growing up. So I think really only now in my thirties have people been willing to like start to talk openly about it. And so I just never shared how I felt, but I, I felt like it was a, a big deal to a lot of people and because I didn't really know what I wanted or what that looked like for me, I was scared to kind of even address it, cuz that would mean having to make my own choices. And then
Rebecca Sigala:about what
Sivan Shachnovitz:specifically? Uh, well, let's say like when I got divorced, the first thing that everyone wanted to do was set me up and they wanted me to get remarried. And I felt this really weird pressure to like, make up for the previous bad relationship. Everybody wanted me to like, now find a good one. And when I would tell people, well, I'm, I'm actually good. I don't really wanna date anyone right now, or, I'm not sure. Yeah. Or even if I'm looking to get remarried, people just couldn't handle that. I might not want exactly what they thought I should want and I just stopped. I just stopped talking about it, like I stopped informing people where I was at in my personal trajectory. Like I don't discuss my private dating life ever. Not online, not with other people, just because like it, first of all, it doesn't really exist right now, but also because it just felt like something that was completely unrelated to me as a person in this part of my life. And so whoever I choose to spend my private time with as an intimate partner, just like doesn't seem relevant to who I am as a individual outside of that, so,
Rebecca Sigala:right. It's almost like other people, they needed to see you with someone to know that you were okay or something like that,
Sivan Shachnovitz:or that, yeah, you would be, it was really hard for them to just be like, oh, she doesn't want to date. Like, what's wrong with her? Like, well, I don't know, but I definitely don't wanna date. So yeah, but then I also felt like I had to explain myself to myself, and that's kind of where I reached out to you. Cause I was like, okay, if, if I don't have an answer for everybody else about like what I want, who I am, how I see myself, and not even from a perspective of like getting remarried or having a relationship, but when I mm-hmm. get dressed, like, what do I want people to see? What, like, what am I expressing about myself to other people? And I like changed my wardrobe. Not, not because I wanted to prove anything, because I realized like, oh, the clothes that I'm wearing, they don't reflect how I feel about myself right now. And Right. Yeah. And then I just started to think like, well, how do I feel about myself and what do I wanna look like and how do I wanna express myself? Hmm. And uh, and that's when you reached out to me. Yeah. Cuz you know what, I think there's something about seeing yourself from the outside. Like I, I act in a lot of content. Like I have been in a lot of videos and I learned a lot from listening to myself speak and watching myself speak, and it made me feel more aware of myself and more connected. And now I feel like it's a lot less frightening for me because I recognize myself and I can channel that like when I speak. So I thought, wow, I really don't have a perception of myself as this like strong, powerful woman. I don't know what that looks like. What do I look like when I feel that way? Mm-hmm. and I wanted to create that space where I could just be completely myself for nobody else. Like what does she look like? And I thought that that would be really inspiring, even just to have the photos for myself that when I'm feeling not like myself or when I'm not sure what to do next or when I'm not sure what I want, I can like look at those and remember what it felt like to have that very powerful feeling and. It's like listening to the song that like gets you pumped up, you know? Yeah.
Rebecca Sigala:How did you go from like being kind of skeptical of like, oh, this is just like a sexy thing. It's not for me to, Hmm. Like, maybe there is something for me here. And what did you expect
Sivan Shachnovitz:to get out of it? So I don't know if this works for anybody else, but I have a lot of anxiety, so I always know the thing. Me too. Yeah. Okay. It's great. So then maybe you'll relate, I dunno if everyone has the same methodology, but when I think about taking a step forward or I think about like, what's my next step to, to grow? Usually I'll come across something that causes me a lot of anxiety and then I'll know that that's probably where most of the growth is supposed to happen. It's taken me a while to figure out like, what am I scared of cuz it's bad and what am I like anxious about because it's, it's gonna be a lot of work? So
Rebecca Sigala:it's a little bit different of a feeling. It's like, there's an intuitive feeling of like, yeah, oh my gosh, maybe there is something deeper here. Versus like, I don't wanna die and like, jump off
Sivan Shachnovitz:this bridge. right? Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, right. There's, there's bravery and stupidity are, uh, courage and stupidity are very similar. It's like, it's hard to know which is which. So you have to be smart, you know, when you're making that choice. Yes. But that's what I think it is really good about having female friends is that I have a lot of experience now in being able to, uh, like get to the other side of a problem or gain a new perspective on myself just by pushing myself, like to have experiences or listening to what other friends have done and kind of mimic those steps and then be like, oh, okay, I see that also works for me. So yeah, that is really helpful. Yeah, and I, and I saw a lot of my friends kind of struggling also with this image of themselves and, and how they wanted to be, and not necessarily that they were going to do photo shoots, but I thought like, okay, so. So what can I do to push myself to this next level that's gonna make me feel good? You know, like I exercise, I eat well sometimes and sometimes not. Mm-hmm. but like, what is a next thing that I can do for myself? Yeah. And even, and I feel like
Rebecca Sigala:there's not that many places to do that. People are just like, oh, you don't like your body, like, lose weight, like get Botox. Like go buy some sexy lingerie. Right? Like, just very like surface level, like not actually getting to the stuff that we want
Sivan Shachnovitz:to work on. Yeah. And it's a lot easier to be compassionate to yourself when you see yourself from the outside, like as not as yourself. And I also wanted to create almost like art, like I didn't want it to be me. I wanted to feel like I was expressing something and then I knew that I would be able to see it in a very different way than if it was just like I'm getting photos of me in my underwear. Like I really, yeah, I felt like if I could turn it into an expression of how I want things to be then it would be inspiring. And the truth is, after we talked about it and I was really into it, and then we were like, okay, we're gonna do it in December. I completely panicked. I like woke up the next day. Yeah. And I knew that it was a good choice because like after we, I was like, oh my God, what am I doing? I'm crazy. Like I don't, first of all, what am I gonna wear? What am I gonna look at? Like how am I gonna, I'm gonna look awkward. I'm not beautiful. And my boobs are gonna be funny? And like I was so freaked out that I realized like, okay, well then I really should do this cuz if I'm so freaked out. It's obviously not as crazy as I think, but also I
Rebecca Sigala:always warn people about that. I always warn people about that. It's like the day after you get engaged. Really excited right now. Exactly. Like, holy crap, like what am I doing? You know? And it's like, like you said, it's, it's, it's paying someone to take pictures of you. I mean, obviously it's way more than that and there's Right. That I lead you through Yeah. But like, when it comes down to it, it's like really investing in this like idea that you're worthy of being
Sivan Shachnovitz:documented. Yeah, I like it. That description, you're worthy of being documented and that, where else do you get the power to control what it is that's gonna come out? Like that I think was the most inspiring part for me, was thinking, okay, well this is just my shoot. No one else is gonna see this. It's not for anyone else. And then you were like, okay, well, you know, you wanna make a Pinterest board with some inspiration and I started going through it and I'm like, none of these feel like me. None of these feel like things I would wanna see. Yeah. I also
Rebecca Sigala:say, don't type in
Sivan Shachnovitz:boudoir Right. Ok. But that's such a, then I was like, ok, so what am I typing? But that's, that's where I started to think that I was like, okay, so then who do I wanna see? And like, then I just started trying out different terminologies and seeing different things, and also getting more of a language for myself. Like, oh, okay. I don't see myself wearing something with sparkles ever. When I was a kid, I hated sparkles and I felt like all the girls, they had to wear sparkles because when you were a girl, everybody wanted to wear sparkles. And even when I got married in my wedding dress, I remember them trying to force me to have like little sparkly flowers. And I was like, no, I hate shiny things. No. And this time I was like, okay, so this is perfect. Like I can choose to wear, to show up in any way I want. I mean, I chose to bring my warm socks that I love personally. Yeah. And make it very comfortable. And I was like, great, so then these will be sexy for me cuz it's what I will feel comfortable in. And really just What would,
Rebecca Sigala:how do you even define the word sexy? Like what does that even mean to you?
Sivan Shachnovitz:I don't know, because I think of it in terms of how somebody else would see me and it really left that reality in my life. Like I don't think of myself, I really try not to think of myself in terms of how other people are viewing me. When. Right.
Rebecca Sigala:I think that's what we're taught. Sexy is it's like, yeah. Oh, it's like how other people see you if you're attractive to someone else,
Sivan Shachnovitz:A man or a woman, right? Like women are, oh, she's so sexy. Thinking how a man will view her. Like that's, yeah. I think what really overwhelmed me, I was like, I don't have a man that I want to think I'm sexy. So what does that mean? And you and I talked about it a little bit like, putting aside the word, you know, sexy and thinking more like feminine power or kind of coming into what you feel is beautiful or strong. And for me, I really think it was the vulnerability, like the awkwardness. Yeah. That I felt about exposing myself. And then that transition, like in some of the photos to, I started off like in a sweater and socks and I ended up like naked because it was actually amazing. Like, I felt so comfortable. And for me that is sexy. Like to, spend the time to get into a space where you're owning your body enough to feel good, to have somebody take photos of you while you're in nothing like, yeah. And not to feel like I needed to cover up or needed to explain anything. And, and it was just you and me to be comfortable, to be yourself like, and you were like, and then to say when things weren't comfortable, or to acknowledge when I wasn't, you know, in a space that felt good, or to take the time to warm up and not be freaked out. Like all of those things to me are like really owning yourself and your body, that to me is, is sexy and not because anybody else is looking at you. It's just how you see, and literally
Rebecca Sigala:just doing it for yourself. It wasn't for a partner, it wasn't for.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Anything. I mean, I stop random people on the street, like, do you wanna see my pictures? No. I mean, I'm joking just my friends, like, that's really for, you wanna see these gorgeous photos and everyone's like, wow, they're beautiful, but I don't care what they're gonna say back because I am so proud of what they represent to me. And not even, I'm like, oh, look at how great I look. I mean, I look fabulous obviously, but that's not why I'm excited by them. Like, They're a real representation of me at my strongest and my most vulnerable, and it's a really beautiful thing to be able to see from the outside. Yeah. It, it's a, it's
Rebecca Sigala:different sharing a part of you or sharing the images afterwards in, in pride, in alignment with yourself versus like doing the session for someone else for their approval or validation or because you don't feel enough and you're like wanting to do this to like fill something. getting that validation from someone else. You know
Sivan Shachnovitz:what I mean? Yeah. It's a mi it's a mindset shift. I, I actually, it's funny cause then when I think about where I was in October, I was leaving a job that I'd had for like a year and a half where it was very stable and I knew exactly what I was supposed to do and I was not important and I wasn't overly responsible for things. And I really wanted to make a leap to taking on more of a risk. And I knew that in order to do that, I needed to be able to see myself as capable of doing that. And so I didn't even necessarily reach out to you because of the end result of the photos. I knew that the process of forcing myself to like be uncomfortable and exposed and then what was I gonna build out of that was gonna make me a lot stronger. And I thought like, okay, now, now is the time. If I wanna take risks on myself, you know, I need to see myself at my weakest and my and and be able to make that into something that's really strong. and actually after we agreed though. Okay, great. We're gonna do it in December. Cause I needed some, we needed some time. It changed how I even viewed myself and my interactions with other people. Like suddenly I was like, I'm somebody. Oh, that's so cool because as soon as you invest in yourself and you're like, okay, listen, this is, this is like a significant amount of money that I'm putting into me, right? Yes. Now, now I have to earn it. Like, now I have to be worth it has to be worth it. So I have to treat myself like I deserve this gift. Yeah. And that I'm going to use it well, and so as soon as I started treating myself like somebody who deserved something like that, I started expecting other people to treat me that way. And then I'm like, wait a minute. I'm, I'm special, I'm beautiful, I'm powerful, I'm whatever. And you don't need to announce this to people, but it does change how you, how you hold yourself, how you speak to them without even realizing. Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Sigala:like energetic, energetic boundaries energetically.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Yeah. I never used to be into that. I just be like, no, I'm a science girl. And I'm like, yeah, no, totally energy and uh, manifestation and all that stuff. All that stuff. And it really changed, like a lot of my relationships with people have gotten better cuz I'm like actually better at setting boundaries now. Like I know, I see myself much more clearly and I'm willing to like stand up for myself now because I've had this experience where I really protected myself and saw myself in such a beautiful way. I'm like that she's very special. Like I should be nicer to her It's so
Rebecca Sigala:healing and so empowering. It really was. Do you feel like the difference is between working on those, that self-concept with your career and money and like, you know, the things that you went to first versus like something so vulnerable. I mean, I guess that is kind of the answer. Something that is so vulnerable, like your body, your body image, like feeling comfortable in your skin. Like why did that seem to be so much, I don't know, a different transformation, maybe a deeper
Sivan Shachnovitz:transformation. Because I think that was the one that I had to come to on my own. I think it's really, you know, people make it very clear that you need to have money and that you need to have your shit together, and that you need to be a certain way in society and a certain level of productivity, but we don't really get messages about you should find yourself inspiring. You should take time to get to know yourself. You should, right? You should not just pay to go to a gym. You should actually like sit and like, touch your body and appreciate that it gives to you things. So that was really only when I got rid of all of the other stuff that I felt like people were telling me to do. And I thought like, well, where, what do I want to invest my time in? But that took me a couple years of doing it according to everybody else before I, yeah, it's
Rebecca Sigala:really like the societal expectations versus like really seeing yourself in a beautiful light and really loving yourself because we do get that expectation of like, or the message that we should look a certain way, but we don't get the message that like we should really deeply love and appreciate
Sivan Shachnovitz:ourselves. Yes. And it's, it's interesting cuz I think that even if you offered these sessions for free, most women wouldn't do them because it's, it's almost like you have to turn off that voice in your head that says that my worth is based off of like how much I give to everybody else. And most women I feel like will lose their sense of identity if they aren't giving to everyone else all the time. Like, what a selfish thing to focus on yourself and your body. And that's, I think, really sad. And for me it was also like, I, I wanted to feel like at any time I could choose to, take out the, the space and the, and the money and the investment to make myself the most important character in my life. Even that, if that meant having a photo shoot of myself just for myself.
Rebecca Sigala:Right. Wow, that's really incredible. Sivan. So what was it like, what was the, what was it like to, I mean, I know it was amazing to like have those conversations with you beforehand and I feel like, wow, they, I was just blown away by how deep and how transformative, even just like talking to you was and starting to shift the way we saw sexy and like what you were gonna wear in your session. We decided that we wanted to do like all black and white for the entire session, which was very cool. I've never done before. And you're just like, go for it. I'm like, yes. And just like different body parts and really like focusing on the art. Right. That was really cool. But then. Yeah. What was it like to show up on the day of and how were you feeling and how did that kind of
Sivan Shachnovitz:progress for you? Well, I appreciate you being very flexible with all of my, uh, needs. I feel like you have like, you know, the standard of way of that you do things with people and I was like, no, I don't want my makeup done. No, I don't want anyone to do my hair. No. I just wanted to be you and me in a room with a sh you know, some letters that I borrowed from a friend. I really, I really tried to make it something that I didn't feel threatened by, and I knew that if I approached it with what would everyone else do or what am I supposed to do, it wouldn't come out as me. And so I took it really to like, I envisioned what I wanted the outcome to be, and then I thought, how can I make myself the most comfortable so when I show up, that's what we'll be able to achieve. So I did my own makeup I wanted to do, I felt super relaxed. Like these were all the things that I wish for my wedding that I had. Well,
Rebecca Sigala:when you, when you said, when you said like, I don't wanna makeup artist, generally, it's not something that I recommend. And a lot of times people will ask that because they're like, well, how can I save money? Like how can I cut corners? You know? But that wasn't why you asked me. You really wanted to do your own makeup and do it very lightly and just not have anyone else in the room. There were a lot of reasons why, and it made so much sense with. Kind of the theme of what we were doing and the boundaries that you wanted to create. And I was like, hell yeah. Like this feels right. And then you showed up and we like talked for like a half hour and just chilled first.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Yeah. That was, for me, was the best. The best part was getting to go through the journey with somebody else. And I do think that is a really, special gift that you give people, like giving them the space to have their own experience and not be threatened by the fact that you are having your own, you have had your own, you are going through your own. Like I didn't feel like you projected onto me any of your feelings. You really just gave me the space to be like, who is Sivan and how does she wanna show up? And it made me feel more comfortable than I ever have with myself. And you let me be the center of attention. That's a really rare opportunity that I don't think I really have had in my life, and I even just that list. Yeah. When, when do we get that? Never actually, you know what? Sometimes when you're giving birth but you don't remember it because you're so out of it. But that's, I feel like the only time that our like powerful but dirty and, and this, and it's not beautiful, but it's like that's when we're in our element. But it's also not a time that we want usually. I mean some people get it photographed, but I do not want be photographed. And I was like, I look like a horrible gremlin. Like please do not.
Rebecca Sigala:That's so interesting cuz I've actually talked to like midwives and like people in the like labor, I guess industry. Is that, is that a thing? That have told me that when we have conversations about women and bodies, it's like such a similar perspective that we have. And I think it is because we get to see people at their most vulnerable and offer a space for them to like really be themselves and yeah. It's so interesting that you said that. I mean, even like our wedding, it's not like, doesn't really feel about us.
Sivan Shachnovitz:No. And actually I've been doing a lot of. Studying up on trauma. And one of the things that they say about trauma is that it's an experience where the person doesn't have control and they feel like they're not able to create a space of safety for themselves. Uh, like to respond in a, in a way that feels safe. And I think in some ways for me this was really therapeutic cuz I did feel like I had a lot of trauma with not being able to protect my body, even when I was younger and like feeling like I had to starve it so I could be skinny like Paris Hilton. Yeah. Or when I was older that I, you know, after giving birth and feeling like it didn't belong to me anymore and my boobs were just somebody else's, like food and, and really kind of reclaiming how I feel about myself and like, and taking ownership over like, wait a minute, this is about how I feel about me and, and nobody else. Yeah, it was a very. Important processes
Rebecca Sigala:like the intention. The intention was so powerful. And then, okay, getting back to the actual session, how did that feel?
Sivan Shachnovitz:I felt really comfortable. I felt very much like you had prepared me to come as myself in any way that I wanted. You were happy to do anything that I said. I had a playlist, so I knew. I really actually, it's so funny. I really thought of this as like my birth, I had two really traumatic births where I felt like both of them, I was really unprepared, and so I was like, okay, I'm gonna go into this, preparing myself as much as possible for an experience that I know is gonna be very anxiety producing and making me feel very vulnerable. And so I just, I made sure I had a playlist, I knew what kind of photos I wanted. It's really
Rebecca Sigala:hard to like have that empowering kind of experience when you have kids so young and not knowing yourself and not having worked on those boundaries and, yeah, I had a very similar experience with my first two kids. Just like kind of being like at the whim of everyone else and not really knowing myself and not coming prepared, but not because I wasn't responsible, but because I didn't know myself.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Right? And then you can't protect yourself or take care of yourself because you've never really figured out who it is that you are, that you're protecting. And so you just do, everyone else expects from you. Cuz that seems like what you want to do, cuz you want to please everybody. And that is, I think, Traumatic as women that we don't feel like we have ownership over, even our own bodies. Like since I was younger, my body has always been something that other people can comment on. And like that really bothered me, like when I first got married and people would be like, are you pregnant? And I'm like, look, I had a bagel, or I am pregnant. Either way, like, you seeing a change in my body isn't an indication that you should comment on it. Yeah. It's not, but you gained so much weight business, you lost so much weight. Yeah. It's just like, okay, thank you. Like why is any of that relevant to me and you talking? It's not. And you were really bothered by
Rebecca Sigala:that, like since you were younger, right? Like I remember you mentioning
Sivan Shachnovitz:that to me. Yeah. I've always, I like definitely hit puberty very, very young. And so I went from being like a cute little tomboy to having to wear a bra at like 10. I got my period like when I was 11, so immediately that's young. It was like people projected onto me this whole reality of who I was just because body parts that were growing and it's like I was not as mature as I think I was given credit for. And I feel like I was exposed to a lot of inappropriate behavior because of how my body looked, that at 11 is really overwhelming. Even at 25, it's overwhelming, but especially when you're a child inside and all of a sudden people treat you like you're a sexual object because you have boobs. That was very, I found it to be incredibly overwhelming and I, and I tried to hide part of who I was, cause I didn't want people to interact with me that way. And that's also bad. Yeah. I don't wanna hide how beautiful or, you know, special I think my body is just because somebody else is gonna say something that's gonna make me uncomfortable. And that's also a hard right balance. Right?
Rebecca Sigala:Well, if it, because we feel like everyone already takes so much ownership over our bodies. It's like, well, what can I control? What can I hide? How can I. How can I like try to protect myself? That's what it sounds like to me. And I think a lot of women experience that where it's just like they become so sexualized that they're just like, well, I don't want that attention.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Like I don't want, and, and sometimes it's not even something that you're trying to create. Like I felt in high school I got in trouble all the time for my shirts being tight and let's just be like straight for a second. I was not a troublemaker in high school. Like I didn't go out with guys. I just had a bigger chest, so all of the shirts I got were a little bit tighter. Yeah. And I remember feeling so embarrassed when I always was getting in trouble as if I was trying to cause attention or make inappropriate whatever, but I really was just being myself at 15. And I, I found that really the way that it was ingrained into me of like, I should hide myself. I mean from like what?
Rebecca Sigala:What do you think the messages that you got from that? Like, there's something wrong with
Sivan Shachnovitz:me or, oh, it something like that. It was, I mean, in a Jewish day school, all girls environment, it was very clear that your role was to be accepted by some man, because that was where your worth was going to lie. And so in order to be accepted by a man in this society, you needed to be attractive and skinny, but not inappropriately dressed, you know, beautiful, but everything needs to be modest, like there was so many. You know, like, uh, don't be obsessed with your size because nobody wants somebody who like, doesn't eat anything, but you have to be really small because a guy doesn't want somebody who's a size eight. And it was like, what? It's so overwhelming. And you don't even think of it as like, that's crazy because when you're in it, you're just like, of course that makes total sense. He doesn't want a date a fat girl. So I'll just, and I'll wear baggy clothes because that makes me seem that I'm appropriate. Like it's just the whole thing was messed up. And honestly, I look now back at, at the people who were giving us all of these sessions and modesty and mentally whatever. I'm like, I wouldn't wanna be like them. I wouldn't wanna have their relationships. They seemed really unhappy. So even at the time it felt wrong. Like there felt something felt off, but we didn't, nobody ever said to us like, oh hey, actually, you should really appreciate your bodies. They're super beautiful and they're gonna do crazy, crazy shit when you're older. So like, and pleasure and feeling nice about yourself. And yeah, all of those things matter a lot. Yeah,
Rebecca Sigala:that's a whole other thing that like our pleasure was not really for us either. It was like, no,
Sivan Shachnovitz:just worry about your collar-bone. Yeah, I never understood that. That always bothered me. Cause I was like, I don't understand if I'm never allowed to look at my body as a sexual object. And then the only time that it's okay is like the night that I get married. I was like, my wedding night, I was totally freaked out. I was like, what you want this stranger to touch me? Like I've never had any guy touch me before. Like it's not suddenly beautiful. It's actually terrifying cuz you've never experienced that kind of physical intention even with yourself. You never looked at yourself that way. So I feel like there's a lot that definitely did not get taught well. So this time in your life,
Rebecca Sigala:like after you got divorced, it was like undoing, rewinding, everything.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Definitely undoing, unraveling,
Rebecca Sigala:yes. Unraveling, yes. That's a good word for it. And, and really almost, I, I said rediscovering, but it's like you're discovering yourself for the
Sivan Shachnovitz:first time. I know it sounds like really one of those Hallmark movies where it's like, you know, the 33 year old goes to a small town to rediscover her, but it really, it felt that, it was like this time I had, I gave myself the space to really ask all the questions that I think I was really afraid to ask when I was 19, 20. And so, yeah, you've gone through the worst in a sense, or you've already had all of the things that you were worried are gonna happen unless they've already happened. So you've already divorced, so like mm-hmm. can't embarrass yourself anymore. Then it really gives, frees you up to be like, okay, cool. So I can ask myself any question I want, cause I'm not scared of the answer. Mm-hmm. Like, I can ask myself, what does beautiful look like to me? And how do I look sexy and not be afraid with the results because like nobody else gets to decide for me and they're my photos and who cares what my high school principal said when I was 15. Have you, have you thought about, like,
Rebecca Sigala:have you thought about the things that you appreciate about that journey, even though it was so hard, and challenging, and even traumatic at times. Like are there parts of it where you're like, oh, I'm really glad that I went through that, or it's made me the person I am today. Like that kind
Sivan Shachnovitz:of thing? Well, I've always envisioned my life as one day. It'll be something that I will, uh, write a book about or make a movie about. Not because I think my life is so interesting, but because I think I have so little embarrassment about the things that I've gone through. I don't mind to have them like played out as a story for somebody else. And I think everything that I've experienced, I have discovered is so relatable to so many other people. I'm not so special. And actually not being afraid to talk about it has made me connect with people much more. Yeah. Cause I can relate to them in a way that I think beforehand I wasn't able to, like, now I could be like, oh, you're also a person who's gone through this like, deep transition in themselves and understanding, like I have a lot more awareness of, mm-hmm. the journey that you can go through.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. Like more compassion, less judgment. And
Sivan Shachnovitz:I think I, I'm a better friend. I'm a better, I mean, I feel like I have more interest in sharing my opinion on things. Cause I'm like, I've gone through a lot, I have something valid to say. So, right. Yeah. I mean, silver lining, blah, blah, blah. But honestly, I think that, we got
Rebecca Sigala:this Hallmark
Sivan Shachnovitz:movie on that. I do think of it as like, whoa, great plot twist. Okay. I didn't see that one coming. And I try not to take it so seriously, cuz I know a lot of it isn't, I can't control it. I can only control how I respond. And at the very least I want my daughter to see that you can go through some crazy shit in your life and it's okay. Like you're gonna be. Yeah, it's a mindset that I try to have. It's not always, doesn't always work, but I do try to approach it from that way.
Rebecca Sigala:Were you surprised when you saw the pictures for the first time?
Sivan Shachnovitz:I don't know if the surprise is the right word. It was like I didn't have any context for like how they would look. I really couldn't. It was weird. I had a real mental block overseeing myself that way. And so I was actually really excited because even just how I felt when you were taking the pictures, I knew that whatever came out, I was gonna love it cuz the feeling was so good. Yeah, it was, the pictures were gorgeous too, but I wasn't surprised. Like I knew what you were gonna show me was gonna feel good and I was just really excited to see. And honestly, I've never. I know this is weird, but like, when I looked at myself, I really thought like, wow, I'm, I'm so beautiful. Not like, oh, I look like a movie star, but like, what a, what a powerful expression of myself this is. And I think that was a surprise. Like I wasn't expecting to feel really proud of myself for Yeah, those things. And
Rebecca Sigala:that's even so much more powerful that it's not like, I'm beautiful because I fit into this kind of type or because I'm like everybody else, but I'm beautiful cuz I'm myself. And you have that
Sivan Shachnovitz:recognition in yourself, a snapshot of like one stage in my life and this is what I was always afraid of and doing photo shoots. Cause I was like, okay, I'm gonna get them this year, but the next year I'm gonna look different. And I didn't necessarily understand the value of having, like, a snapshot of a very important time in your life to remember forever for when your hair is gray and your boobs sag a little more and you've had another kid so your stomach doesn't look the same. Like instead of being afraid that I'll look back and and be like, ah, I used to be so beautiful. I could be like, wow, I am who I am today because of this time in life. And there is nothing to be, you know, scared about the future for. Like, I'm gonna look just as beautiful in my next photo shoot, right? It's gonna be me in another however many years in a new stage. I
Rebecca Sigala:think what's so powerful too is it's not like you tried to like change your body or change yourself for this
Sivan Shachnovitz:photo shoot. You were
Rebecca Sigala:really like, the intention was like, I'm coming as I am. This is who I am. I actually, I mean, the results are great, but like I actually care about the experience so much more because I know that's where my transformation lies. It was like, really, really like you, authentically being yourself. So it's not like when you look back on them, you're like, oh, like having these feelings of like misalignment or I wish I looked like that, or whatever. It's just like, that's really who I am and I feel like that is so life-affirming and that's so
Sivan Shachnovitz:powerful. Yes. You described it in a very good way, that exactly. It was that, that word alignment. It's like a funny word I think of like the kind of, it is funny, like alliance or, but it's true. I feel like when you're alliance when you're, yeah, when you, when you don't feel like you're looking at yourself or you don't feel like yourself, it's this really weird, creepy, disassociated feeling. And there was something that clicked, like when you showed me the photos, I was like, I don't look like that every day, but I am her every single day and that. Right. Was very like, yes. Like I could, that, that something clicked inside of me that made me feel like I am who I am and now I see it and now it's like it is, yeah. Aligned. So, and I think that's why
Rebecca Sigala:some people think it's like shallow cuz it's appearance related. It's like, oh, you get lingerie. I mean, maybe it is
Sivan Shachnovitz:things like outside of yourself, but so is, you know, uh, everything that we do, getting dressed and washing your hair is so, you know, cuz appearance related, like e everything is your appearance. But the reason why it's
Rebecca Sigala:not is because it's about an alignment with your inner self.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Yes. Well, I think in general we tend to misidentify those things when things, something doesn't feel a good inside and we try to change something outside cuz we think that that will happen as opposed to changing some right inside, which is also why I waited until I felt like how I wanted to feel outside, so I thought, okay, now is a good time to do the work inside, because it's really hard when you don't feel good about yourself on the outside. It's really hard to change how you feel about yourself on the inside. Like, let's be honest. Yeah, not knowing your best. It's like trying to get less depressed when you're depressed. Like sometimes you have to wait till you're feeling good and then work on the method of like, okay, next time I get depressed, what am I gonna do? So I feel, yeah,
Rebecca Sigala:well I guess it's like kind of like
Sivan Shachnovitz:it goes hand in hand, right? But you have, you have to do the work, but it's, it's hard to pull yourself out. So I don't think, if I had done this in the past, I don't think that I would've been as willing to embrace myself. I think I would've pushed it to be like, I'll do makeup, that's really cool. Or I'll get a cool hairstyle. Like, this was just me feeling, however I show up is gonna be great, and that took me a really long time to get to, but I'm, I'm really glad I waited until it was like a meaningful experience as opposed to what are the photos gonna look like? Yeah. Because then I think I would've been always disappointed with the result. If it wasn't about the experience I was going through then, no matter what came out, I would be like critical because that's would've been the point. But this was just like, I wanna be me and I wanna be me doing something that's gonna make me feel good that I've never done before. That caused me a significant amount of anxiety. But it was really, really empowering actually, and yeah. Yeah, it's so beautiful.
Rebecca Sigala:What would you say to yourself like right after you got divorced? Cause I know that's like a really hard, or maybe even the midst
Sivan Shachnovitz:of
Rebecca Sigala:your divorce, like that's, Like the hard, like the hard time, right? Like the dark moments where it's like, I don't know what's gonna happen next. I don't know who I am, I don't know how I'm gonna make money, or all of that.
Sivan Shachnovitz:What would you say to that person now? You know, I didn't. I didn't ever say to myself, I can't do it. And so actually I would tell myself like, good job. Like I think that I coached myself through one of the hardest periods of life that anyone could go through. And actually somebody, yeah, somebody described it really well to me once they were, it was like self labor, like basically coaching yourself through labor and, and we talked already about how traumatic pregnancy was, but I really, I felt like this was an experience where I was like giving birth to a new life. That's dramatic as that sounds. And I really coached myself through. And I just look back at myself and I'm, I'm really proud, like I wouldn't tell myself to do anything differently. I think I did the best I could. And I also, yeah, I, I, I feel like the only reason that I am who I am today is because I trusted myself to take a bet on myself and, and take a huge risk, even though I had absolutely no idea even what to be afraid of. I didn't even think when I got divorced, like, like the
Rebecca Sigala:risk was to support myself. Like deciding the risk Was deciding to leave.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Deciding to get divorced. Exactly. And then after that, yeah, I was like, you've got this. Whatever you decide is gonna be fantastic. And I gave myself the space to really. Take a huge risk and not be afraid. And I'm really proud of that person, so I would tell her thank you. I think. Wow,
Rebecca Sigala:that's so beautiful. Is there anything else that you want to share with people who are in the process of discovering themselves, rediscovering themselves? Maybe some, maybe someone who's like really came to boudoir in the same way as you, as like, that's not for me. Like it's, it's too sexy, you know? Like what? What would you share
Sivan Shachnovitz:with them? Well, I think. and I haven't solved any of the dilemmas that I have, so I'm not giving advice, like, and here's what I figured out. I could just say the things that I realized that I think are important to realize. So when I was doing the shoot, I really wanted to have two photos like I have in my bedroom, two frames that are like hanging up and they're empty. Have you printed them out yet? No, no, I remember I was waiting to get the, to get the photos, so I Oh, okay. I was, and then once we, I went through the photos and I, I chose the ones that I liked. I realized like, wait a minute, my kids come into my room and they still see them. And like, how will I explain that and what will that mean? Will that scar them for life? Cuz their mom thinks that she's sexy and has two photos of herself where you can see like her, whatever, and mm-hmm. And just realizing like how much of myself is controlled by how other people might think about me. Yeah. My children, my family. People in my town, people I work with even being like, oh my gosh. Like if, if these exist online and somebody finds them and then I won't get a job. Like there's so much fear around that, that I would, the advice I would give to somebody is of like, your fir. You don't have to do a photo shoot if you don't want to, but if your first thought about yourself is, how will everyone else see me? You're gonna live your life feeling really, really miserable. Yeah. I think it's hard for people
Rebecca Sigala:to identify that, like realizing
Sivan Shachnovitz:that most people don't even realize that's what they're thinking. Right? So that's why, yeah, there's like even just thinking like, okay, if I were to do this shoot, who would I show it to? Like, if you immediately think about it in that sense, then the whole shoot is gonna be based off of, or your whole perception of yourself is gonna be what somebody else thinks. Yeah. And so actually doing something like this again, whether it's with yourself and a cell phone, and just like taking pictures of yourself in your room, like. doing it just for yourself allows you to break down everything about you that you've created, because other people think that that's what it should be. And sometimes when we look, there's really nothing else there, and that's, you know, that's your whole life. You want to be in your life. So I think investing, yeah, in being able to look at yourself just for yourself is such a powerful thing. And my main advice would be like, tell your daughters that. Yeah. Like it might be too late for you, but maybe we can raise the next generation of women who are not afraid to own themselves and be themselves without everybody else's judgment.
Rebecca Sigala:And I think something that I just picked up from you talking about your kids maybe seeing it, is this idea that we've been ingrained with because of religion and purity culture and all this stuff that like sex is bad. You know what I mean? Like, and no one really says that, especially in our religion. It's like, very, I don't know. There's a lot of different, like, you know ideologies and ways of thinking of it. And no one says sex is bad. That's just
Sivan Shachnovitz:you dance around it. That's a good thing. Yeah, we dance around
Rebecca Sigala:it. Yeah, we dance around it and, but it's supposed to be hidden. There's something shameful about it. There's only certain things you can do that you can't do. It's not really about your pleasure. Like there's all of these, all of these messages that we get from such a young age and, it's like so liberating to realize that it's not bad and our bodies are not bad. There's nothing wrong with our bodies. There's nothing wrong with having desires or experiencing pleasure or like being different than other people and not experiencing things in the same way. And I think that's really, really, really liberating and definitely something that I wanna pass down to my kids if I can.
Sivan Shachnovitz:And if you don't, if you're not able to hold space for yourself to have those things. So if you're not, if you're not able to say about yourself, I deserve to feel good. I deserve to own my space. I deserve to set boundaries that feel comfortable for me with my body. And then essentially you don't have like, uh, control over your own life. And I, and I, yeah, think the older that we get, and I see my mom and like now she's almost 60, and like, thank God she has a great relationship with her body, but she's in a whole new stage of life where she's gone gray and like, you know, she's a widow and she doesn't have, you know, a life partner and how people treat her and how she feels about herself. Like if she didn't feel good about herself, she would just have a miserable life. And I'm, yeah, so grateful that I have a role model who she like thinks I'm so special, I'm so powerful. I can reinvent myself at any age. And I'm like, great, beautiful. But that's a muscle that you really have to build. So I think always being able to look at yourself in each stage and really appreciate. Like at each stage that it's gonna look different and you're gonna have to find out more information about yourself, and you're gonna have to keep learning. And what was pleasurable to you at 20 isn't gonna be the same at 45. Like really giving yourself space to evolve and not be afraid. Ultimately I love seeing it
Rebecca Sigala:as a muscle because yeah, like whatever we build now is going to be beneficial. And like, growing in, in advantages for us, like as we age. And it's just so beautiful to see like how the work that we do now will affect us in a year from now or 10 years from now. And I really love the way that you put that. That's really
Sivan Shachnovitz:beautiful. Yeah. I think it's a, it's a life journey, but Yeah.
Rebecca Sigala:Probably worth it. Yeah. And we're, we're lucky. We're blessed to be able to realize that so young, and I think part of that is having to go through some really challenging shit.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Well, we def, we definitely are very privileged. You're right. And I do think, I think about my grandmother and her mom and I'm like, okay, they all had to fight for every little inch so that I could have this life where I could think about myself and not have to be worried that I need a man to support me or that I need to anxiety something like I could be a single mom who lives alone and like financially supports herself and does a body photo shoot. Like that's what they've been working for this whole time. So let's utilize it. Like, let's really take this opportunity to do the work. Yeah. That they worked really hard for us to be able to do. I mean, have to fight to vote, you know, it's not, doesn't mean our life is not hard in other ways. Right? Like I, it's just a different, it's a different space. Like we have a really big opportunity, now in this generation to like actually be able to self actualize. Whereas before it was just survival mode. Like you said, you can't even pay attention to yourself when you're in survival mode. So instead of looking at it, it's like, oh, it's so egotistical. I'm so selfish. Actually, this is amazing. This is what your grandmother hoped you would have. Yeah. The chance to do this. Yeah.
Rebecca Sigala:This is a privilege. Oh my gosh, that's incredible. Yeah. Emotional growth and self-actualization and self-expression like, hell yes. I love that. Sivan, thank you so much for coming on and sharing
Sivan Shachnovitz:your, I'm so, I'm so honored to be your first guest guest and this is so exciting. I'm excited to hear the rest of the interviews also, who else you got, uh, on the lineup?
Rebecca Sigala:Yes. I have some really amazing ideas coming up, so thank you so much. I appreciate your vulnerability, your wisdom, your story. You're just such an incredible person and so blessed to have you in my life and being able to just photograph you and witness you through this journey has been such an honor.
Sivan Shachnovitz:It was really my, and the honor was all mine. Honestly. I'm, uh, actually thought I don't think I would've been able to do this process with anybody else. So I'm glad, I'm glad that we built up for rapport over the last eight years. So, I could feel comfortable enough to come. I'm so
Rebecca Sigala:glad that means so much to me, Sivan. All right, Rebecca. Thank you so much.
Sivan Shachnovitz:Bye.
Rebecca Sigala:Thanks for tuning in guys. I know that there are so many parts of Sivan's journey that we can relate to, even if we haven't been through those exact things ourselves, from being a teenage girl and the body image struggles and pressures that come along with that to surviving abuse, divorce, finding her way as a single mom and an independent woman to empowering herself to find her own way and pave her own path without the noise of everybody else's opinions. I think it just shows the power of trusting ourselves and listening to our intuition, and I'm so glad that Sivan trusted hers, e ven through some really challenging times. And I'm grateful that we're able to sit here and talk and laugh and share her story together, and that I was really actually able to document this incredible, monumentous, time in her life. It's just so, so incredible and inspiring to me, and I'm sure many of you. If you're listening in and enjoying, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast. I love hearing from you and getting your feedback as I continue cultivating the podcast for you all. You can always feel free to reach out to me on Instagram or email. I am looking forward to talking to you all soon, and I hope that you have a great day.