Today, I invited Yonina Rubinstein to chat with me about what we've been speaking about for months already: sexuality and body image during wartime. We talk about what Jewish women have been experiencing since October 7, in Israel and abroad, and how many people feel guilty about living life and experiencing pleasure. We talk about ways to let go of that guilt, how to be kind to yourself when you cycle in and out of self-care, and what it means to really honor those who have lost their lives for our country. Yonina is a Jewish Sexuality Educator and author of the book, "Sexuality After Childbirth." Join us for some straightforward and actionable mindset shifts to reconnect with your body and make yourself a priority.
Follow Yonina on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yoninarubinstein
I would love to hear from you on Instagram!
https://www.instagram.com/rebeccasigalaboudoir
Today, I invited Yonina Rubinstein to chat with me about what we've been speaking about for months already: sexuality and body image during wartime. We talk about what Jewish women have been experiencing since October 7, in Israel and abroad, and how many people feel guilty about living life and experiencing pleasure. We talk about ways to let go of that guilt, how to be kind to yourself when you cycle in and out of self-care, and what it means to really honor those who have lost their lives for our country. Yonina is a Jewish Sexuality Educator and author of the book, "Sexuality After Childbirth." Join us for some straightforward and actionable mindset shifts to reconnect with your body and make yourself a priority.
Follow Yonina on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yoninarubinstein
I would love to hear from you on Instagram!
https://www.instagram.com/rebeccasigalaboudoir
Hello, everyone. It's me, Rebecca Sigala. Welcome back to the Body Image Revolution. I am so happy to be saying those words because I have really been missing this podcast and sharing so much with all of you. I actually woke up and thought about Yonina Rubinstein, who is a sexuality educator and is a friend and colleague of mine. And we've been talking for months about the topics that you're about to hear about. And I honestly can't believe that I haven't had her on here yet. So I was really excited that she agreed to come on last minute. And we just had so much fun. Such an amazing conversation. I think you're really going to enjoy it. I just want to share a little bit about Yonina. She is a sexuality educator, as I mentioned, and she's also the author of Sexuality After Childbirth. She lives in the same city as I do, and she also has a husband in the reserves, and we've known for years that our specialties really overlap and complement each other so well, and we always have so much to talk about. I feel like these things are concepts that every single woman can relate to. We really give some awesome mindset shifts in here, especially around self care. Self care and pleasure and sexuality and body image, those are things that we touch on today. And honestly, I really just feel like we scratched the surface. I also want to mention that we talked about this fundraiser that I started in October and I realized I haven't shared anything with you guys about that. I started a fundraiser for iPhone sessions for IDF wives, and we talk about it in the episode. Cause you'll, you know, it's one of the first people to participate and it was so much fun, basically, my makeup artist and I, we gave a free day of professional makeup and mini boudoir sessions for women who had their partners in the reserves. And we just saw how powerful and meaningful it was. So then I decided to start fundraising for it and we were able to gift over 60 women so far, this experience and. It's been so transformative and special and such a light in the darkness of this time. I actually shot these on my iPhone so that these women could send them to their soldiers quickly if they wanted. And, of course, really reconnect to their bodies and feel sexy. It was such a light in this dark time. Okay, guys, get ready for an awesome episode. Here it is. I hope you enjoy. Hey, oh my gosh I'm so excited
Yonina Rubinstein:for this. I know. Me too.
Rebecca Sigala:It's so funny. Like, I just woke up this morning and I was like, I want to talk to you Yonina for my podcast. And we've been talking this whole time for the last, you know, four months, is it since the war began?
Yonina Rubinstein:I can't believe it's four months.
Rebecca Sigala:Crazy. And we've been talking about so many important topics. I can't believe I haven't thought about this yet.
Yonina Rubinstein:Yeah, about sexuality and the war and our bodies and just everything that's coming up and changing like we both have The work that we do on a regular basis and then all of the new Things that are coming up around this crazy reality We're living in in Israel and abroad like for Jewish people. It's just been so much So many different shifts and so many different angles to connect to our work around this, you know, the war and this reality that it's been really, really. Inspiring and thought provoking and personal and professional and just so much. So thank you for inviting me to this conversation.
Rebecca Sigala:100%. I feel like for me, it gave me a lot of clarity about myself and about my work. And of course, there's been a lot of ups and downs and emotions with all of that. But overall, I have found that this time has been very inspiring and I don't know. I can't even can't think of the word, definitely inspiring and rewarding. And I'm excited to kind of dive into this with you.
Yonina Rubinstein:I think we might have like pauses and be like, we don't exactly have words for this because it really isn't a reality. And so much of us also, I don't know, for myself, I go through periods of like when I'm processing and feeling my feelings and being able to like. Search through and find the words for it and then sometimes I don't and then this conversation is all of a sudden like, oh, wait, maybe I haven't thought about that yet. And I really don't have words for yet. I need to like, feel into it first. And maybe I don't know, maybe something new will come out of this podcast.
Rebecca Sigala:Actually. Oh, my gosh, I think so. I think that will definitely happen. I mean, for me, even as I say those words, I'm like, it's been inspiring and rewarding. And it's given me so much clarity. But also there's been so many days that I've just been So out of it and like crying and then numb and then angry and feeling all of the emotions and
Yonina Rubinstein:yeah, and this morning I even said to my husband, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I feel like I want to take charge of my life again this past two weeks, I haven't been taking care of myself at all, like, even like the just small markers that for me are a sign that like, Okay, Yonina, yeah, you're going through something. And when I feel right, like get back, yeah. into it. Like I haven't been washing my face. Like that's such a funny thing to say, but like, right. Did you start doing that just
Rebecca Sigala:recently? Because water
Yonina Rubinstein:is up in the window. It's like so cold and I don't want to like wait for the water to heat up and like use face washing. I don't know. It just feels like a big thing. I mean, it sounds silly, but like washing your face. Right. Um, I do brush my teeth, right, because like, I bought myself, yeah, like I bought myself like a nice, like, you know, face care set for Hanukkah, and I was like using it, and I was working out, and I was feeling like, okay, I'm taking care of myself, and managing to do all these other things that we need to do during the war, and like life. And then the past two weeks, I've been like, Not like that. I'm upset at myself. Like, Oh, no, no, no. Why aren't you working out? Why aren't you washing your face? Why aren't you making yourself nutritious food? But they're like markers for myself that my balance has been like out of whack and that the stress has been, you know, rising. And that if I want to feel like I'm taking charge of my life again and not just being like dragged along by all of this, craziness and the news and the. The stress of everything that there are these like small things I can do again to start, you know, connecting back to myself and taking care of myself and like, even I said, the fact that I just started like binging a new show. It's not a bad thing. I'm not saying like, oh, you shouldn't watch TV shows. But for me, that's a sign for myself of like how I'm subconsciously like what I'm doing with my time. Yeah. Like feeling stressed about watching a show. I'm not like watching it and feel like, Oh, it's the end of the day. This is so much I don't watch the show, but I'm just like, I'm too overwhelmed with everything. So I'm going to numb by watching a show.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I actually just wrote a post about this about how since October 7th, I haven't been so on top of or mindful about eating nutritious food or moving my body as much as I used to. And in the past, I would have felt like a failure, like that is how I measured my self worth is honestly by how thin I was. And it was so eye opening to me to see that, that is not how I was measuring myself worth anymore. And that I gave myself so much credit for all of the things that I've been doing over the last four months, which has been a lot. Like I've done so much. And. While I'm going through all of these emotions and all of these fears and taking care of my kids and my business and I really Actually give myself credit for it. And then the fact that I'm not beating myself up is actually really serving me because then one day I was just like, I want to, I want to work out and I put on my shoes and I put on my workout stuff and I just went without any drama. Well, in the past, I probably would have beat myself up for a few more weeks before I even did anything like that. So I really think that. Like you were kind of mentioning giving yourself that self compassion is so so important It's actually the only way that we can truly take care of ourselves.
Yonina Rubinstein:Yeah
Rebecca Sigala:Can you share I mean we just go into talking because there's so much to talk about But can you share a little bit about who you are where you're originally from and what
Yonina Rubinstein:you do? Yeah, that's a good thing to mention. Yeah, I think people should have some contact. Not washing my face. No, I
Rebecca Sigala:think that's really important too. And I'm sure a lot of people will
Yonina Rubinstein:relate. Yeah, my name is Yonina Rubenstein. And I am a sexuality educator. Which means I get to teach people about all things related to bodies and relationships. I work a lot with teens in schools and in informal educational settings. I work a lot with parents about how to Teach their kids healthy sexuality, how to talk to them about these topics. And I also work with, with educational staff. I work with couples. I really work with a lot of different groups, which is very fun. I live in Efrat. I have four beautiful children. I am married. My husband is also serving in the army and I think this week he's supposed to have a break like he's going to be discharged for a while until wow round. Yay. Yes. so that's a little bit about me. And another thing I've been doing during the war related to my job is one, we having these conversations and classes on the topic of sexuality during war, how the war affects Our individual and couple, our partnered sexuality and also the past two months, I've been directing really, really big project for preventing sexual abuse amongst evacuees in the hotels. It is like a huge issue. It's something that a lot of people don't think about because there's so much going on. And so many basic needs, but really living in hotels and the situation that has been created. Is a big opening for a lot of different kinds of sexual abuse to occur. So we are trying to prevent what we can. And that, that's a little bit
Rebecca Sigala:about me. When you first told me that, my heart just sunk. It made so much sense that that could be an opportunity for predators. And I think the work that you're doing now and The work that you have done is so, so important and I've loved following you over the years and I even took part in one of your courses, which was amazing, how to talk to my kids about sexuality. And there's a lot of gems that you have shared with me that are constantly like in my mind and I really appreciate you and the work that you
Yonina Rubinstein:do. Well, thank you for sharing that.
Rebecca Sigala:Of course. So, speaking of, like, workshops, we did one together. Yes. That was so much fun. How did you feel about that?
Yonina Rubinstein:Honestly, it was beyond what I imagined. I think because we were also we did it in conjunction with two other amazing women, with Frannie Wiseman and Adina Marks, and there were so many different parts that we pulled together that when we actually had this in person workshop, it was incredible. And. It really gave women, not just the tools and the information that we wanted to give over, but it really created an experience, which I think is at the heart of both of our work, which is like to create a container and to create a space of non judgment for women, to be able to open up and share about their experiences and feel seen and feel heard. And to realize like, Oh, it's not just me. I'm not alone. And those kinds of spaces, even just being in that. Place like even if you know everything like I didn't say anything that was new to me right in the part that I taught but just being able to share it and teach in that kind of container reminded me of these basic things that I, I knew, but I needed to be reminded of in a place where I like re accept them. Like we talked a lot about how stress affects, you know, our desire and how, how survival mode affects our body image and all of these kinds of things were like, Oh my gosh, yes, that's, those are the words from my experience and that's what's happening. And like the sisterhood, it was really, really amazing.
Rebecca Sigala:So amazing. And there was something so nice about it being in person because it was so shortly after October 7th, and we were all kind of just in survival mode, taking care of our families taking care of ourselves, and then being able to feel like okay there's other women like, not just in the same place as us mentally but like physically around us. It was like this feeling of. I guess like the embodiment of what it means to have like a sisterhood or a community and I thought that was really beautiful
Yonina Rubinstein:Yeah, and I felt like also I mean I was talking about a lot how stress of impact our, uh, desire and sexual desire as well, and then I was talking about like different ways where we can help release stress and like break this cycle of stress. And so many of the things that are important to do to release stress were happening in that space. Like, uh, social interactions, laughter what else? There was like self care, like there are all these things. I'm like, oh my gosh, just sitting here. We're releasing so much stress just by being together. Music. Yeah, music. We were in a beautiful space. We were
Rebecca Sigala:like making coffee, having like nice, beautiful snacks for ourselves that were delicious. Like we were really experiencing. The workshop, not just listening or taking in information.
Yonina Rubinstein:Yeah. Yeah. And it was so that was like really powerful for for me personally. Like I came as a professional to share my, you know, my knowledge and information. And I also walked away gaining so much from it personally. It was really nice.
Rebecca Sigala:Same. I always feel like that with my work. I always feel like I gain so much from it and like, I really, at least for me, like you teach what you need is something that has always been pretty relevant. And, um, I just go through the journey with my clients in different ways, of course, but, um, I think it's a really special aspect of having a heart centered business that you're really passionate about. Should we share, like, why we did the workshop in the first place, like, kind of how you and I connected after October 7th
Yonina Rubinstein:and what we started talking about, you know, it's interesting. I feel like. In Israel, or maybe just me personally, I feel like I've been going through so many different, iterations, so many different forms since October 7th happened and there have been like so many different shifts and changes. Like, I can't just say, oh, this is how it affected, you know, someone might say, how has the war affected, you know, your, your self care? How has the war affected your relationship? Or someone even sent out like A survey a sex therapy program that I'm on their newsletter and they're like, oh, we want to know how, you know, the war affected people's sex lives and libido. And can you fill this out? And where was this? Where did this come from? On the email? I got like from a sex therapy Program. I mean, I started filling it out and I was like, but it's changed so much like it's been four months and I've gone through so many different phases. 100%. So I feel like on the one hand, I was like, okay, well, maybe what we talked about and what we did isn't relevant anymore. And then just last week, someone reached out to me from outside of Israel and was like, We really need to be talking about this more. Women are sharing with me that they're having, you know, where they're trying to be intimate with their husband and they're having flashbacks of videos that they've watched or they're having sex. And they're thinking of, you know, women captive in tunnels and, and you have any resources. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's so funny. Cause we were talking about that, you know, two months ago. I feel like now we're talking about different things now, at least, I don't know, around me, people are talking about how. Like long term stress is affecting us and like we're feeling worn down and people don't have, you know, energy anymore and coming home and how you handle that. I still
Rebecca Sigala:think that there's this constant comparison, like the comparative suffering that people are doing where it's like, well, I shouldn't complain because this person has it worse off than me, like even people who are like so directly affected by the war, it's like someone else always has it worse and people feel guilty about experiencing pleasure and enjoying life. Are you seeing that as well?
Yonina Rubinstein:Yeah, yeah, we're seeing I'm still seeing that I feel like in the beginning. Well, let's go back to your question. Like when we did this workshop, we were getting a lot of questions about people who are experiencing secondary trauma through content that they watched about the war about massacres. People experiencing, like you said, a lot of guilt, experiencing pleasure being with their husbands when there are people whose husbands were killed or when their husbands were, you know, in reserve duty. Why does, why
Rebecca Sigala:does that make sense to you? I'm sure it does as a sexuality educator and you've worked with so many women over the years. Why does that make sense and is such a, I guess, normal response
Yonina Rubinstein:to feel guilty?
Rebecca Sigala:To feel guilty or to have these flashbacks or to just go through any of those emotions or visualizations that you just mentioned, because I think there needs to be a little bit more of a normalization of that because It's not only that women are experiencing these negative emotions, but then they feel bad about feeling that way. And then that is kind of when that shame spiral comes
Yonina Rubinstein:in. Right. So I think they're a little bit different. I think the flashbacks and traumatic responses really have to do with Things that we're exposed to, right? And it makes sense if you see something traumatic, then you might have flashbacks to it. Like that's just how systems
Rebecca Sigala:work. Like seeing the images on the news and watching
Yonina Rubinstein:videos and things like that. Yeah. And I think something there that's important is like to, to think how important it is for us to really watch those things and to expose ourselves to them and how much we actually should be protecting ourselves and sensitizing ourselves to what we are Watching. Right. Some people feel like it's important for them to see it to bear witness and to be able to really understand what's going on. But for a lot of people, I think that might be a false narrative that we are trying to convince ourselves in order to feel like we are More involved or more affected or to feel like we really feel someone else's pain that we didn't experience it as much as possible I think it
Rebecca Sigala:is that comparative suffering as well It's like well if someone else is really went through this like I should also suffer along with them
Yonina Rubinstein:Yeah, and And I feel like
Rebecca Sigala:a certain extent. I totally understand
Yonina Rubinstein:that. Yeah, I think we see it. I mean, I, to me, it was reminiscent kind of remembering like things that we used to do to at the I used to do to commemorate the Holocaust is like to try and see like the worst, the most graphic movie you can feel like the saddest that you couldn't have like them. Yeah. Trouble like or on Tisha B'Av to like watch, you know, the most heart rending traumatic things that you could really feel it. And I feel like, I don't know if I've gotten older or as I've learned more about, you know, trauma and suffering and pain and healing that that isn't true, meaning watching something that. deeply affects us doesn't mean that we need to create trauma or extra suffering for ourselves in order to be able to participate in someone else's pain or to support someone else. It doesn't create anyone else's suffering like it. It doesn't do anything for you or for that person. It really isn't helpful in most cases. I know a lot of people are saying we need to share, like, what happened in the massacre and the war so that the world can see what happened. But, like, to really be honest with ourselves, why we're, why we're watching this, like, are we doing it kind of, like you said, are we trying to alleviate guilt so that we feel like, oh, I'm in America and my husband isn't drafted, so I should try and feel like what other people are feeling and, like, But if it turns you into a schmata and you're just crying in bed for three days, that doesn't help anyone. It really doesn't. How can women
Rebecca Sigala:let go of that guilt? Do you have any
Yonina Rubinstein:advice for that? That's a good question. And I was like about guilt, first of all, I feel like it can, it can be endless. Like you said, there are people who are super affected. Like I work with people in hotels who are evacuated from their homes. and even there, they'll be like, Oh, yeah, but my neighbor has it worse because her husband is on crack food, or I don't have any little kids, so it's easier for me. So maybe someone else should get, you know, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Like it never ends. It really never ends. So how can we alleviate guilt? I think one is recognizing. Right, recognizing that we're feeling that like sometimes people might be doing things and I realize what it's stemming from,
Rebecca Sigala:right? Like, of course, I'm going to read the news articles. Of course, I'm going to watch the videos that come out. Like, I really care about this. And they're not necessarily thinking about how they're being affected by it.
Yonina Rubinstein:Right. And a lot of it. I think also watching a lot of it is like human curiosity. And we want to know what's going on. We want to be able to I know it's human nature to be drawn into wanting like the juicy details and like then we also feel guilty sometimes of like, I know this is bad for me. Why am I watching it? Why am I reading it? Like, I know if I click on it, I'm not going to be functioning or I'm not going to be able to read it. I
Rebecca Sigala:definitely, I definitely regret refreshing the news like every 10 minutes for the first month or two. I think that my experience then could have been different if I didn't expose myself to so much.
Yonina Rubinstein:And it's okay.
Rebecca Sigala:Like, I think it's understandable why I did. But, I totally agree with you that it, Is not necessarily helpful in most cases, and we need to learn how to protect ourselves. Emotionally. And I totally agree with that. So, okay, you said the letting go of guilt. The first step is recognizing
Yonina Rubinstein:it. And also I think recognizing it and for me, I think it's it's noticing like what I'm gaining out of it because a lot of behavior that aren't beneficial, we, we do gain things from them, right? Like the human nature don't want to feel bad. So if we're doing things that, that aren't really good for us, like why, like, what am I gaining from this? So like, I remember when
Rebecca Sigala:my therapist asked me, like what I was gaining from my depression. And I was like, what the hell, what are you talking about? And then I was like, Oh, like, It's familiar to me, you know, like I've had this for so long. I know these feelings. I am comfortable in it in a weird way. So yeah, it's, it's really interesting to see like, you know, how things are serving you and how they're not and the things that are serving you still might not be the most ideal thing to do. Does that make sense?
Yonina Rubinstein:Right, like someone might feel guilty for having sex with her husband or for even having her husband home and that might really benefit her because maybe she doesn't even want to be having sex. So then she might be saying like, Oh, this is inappropriate. We're in a time of war. There are women whose husbands were killed. Like we shouldn't be, you know, we shouldn't be having sex. It could be also that it serves her emotionally because she feels like she's empathizing right with, with people in Israel, it could be like that supports her values of feeling like we're all brothers and sisters, like your pain is my pain. This is an expression of my pain. A lot of people also, I see this a lot. We all on the one hand want to have like our normal life back, but we know we can't because of the war. So we want to at least feel like we're involved in some way. Like I even know now, like my life feels like it's back to normal and then I like remember how it's not. But there's some days where I feel like I should check, I haven't checked the news for a while. I should do that because we're in a war. I need to know like what's going on. Yeah.
Rebecca Sigala:But just challenging that like I should do that. Like what does that mean? And I think Something that would also be really helpful for people is to support the cause or your community or your family in a significant way, or not necessarily significant, but intentional. And when you do that, then I think the focus kind of shifts to just sitting and refreshing your phone to how can I help people.
Yonina Rubinstein:Right, right. And I think that's another way to alleviate guilt is to recognize. That it's really, it's a false narrative and it's in our head, like feeling like we shouldn't have pleasure because of what's happening. Recently there was a whole drama in Israel. I don't even know what it was because I didn't see, but people on my feed started talking about, should we be dancing? Should we be doing, you know? Other expressions of joy and a lot of people who bereaved families from this war and even from other wars were writing in. I follow someone whose mother was killed in a terrorist attack about 8 years ago. And so she opened like a question box for people to be able to share for bereaved families to share how they feel when they see other people continuing their lives and dancing and going to weddings and going out to bars and like having a good time. And they all wrote in like. Our loved ones died so that we could continue living and we can continue life. And if you think that sitting at home crying or stopping your life, or not experiencing pleasure is helpful anyway, like that is such a false narrative and that goes against like that makes our sacrifice feel terrible because we're like, okay, we sacrificed our loved ones died. We're going through this war for what? Yeah, like, you know, like when you keep when you
Rebecca Sigala:When you read any of the letters that people wrote before they were killed in the war, you know what I mean? Like the the soldiers that they write a letter beforehand. A lot of them are just like, very clear, like, be happy live life. Like, that doesn't honor them to just continue to be sad and to not experience life and
Yonina Rubinstein:experience pleasure. Yeah, and like if someone still feels guilty, like I'll sometimes like I'm taking this bubble bath in the honor of, or like in the merit, uh, right. Like I'm experiencing this pleasure. I'm connecting to pleasure, to this source of life, to all the things that feel good in the merit, you know, in the merit that this worship be one, or like, I'm having this orgasm to protect our soldiers. Like you
Rebecca Sigala:can't
Yonina Rubinstein:focus your, like, Like our pleasure, our sexuality is, it's really the, the source of connecting our soul to our body. So if we believe that it's a good thing and it's a positive thing and it's something that like, you know, God wants us to be experiencing and even like in Judaism, having sex is a mitzvah. So do that mitzvah in honor of, you know, in the merit of, in honor of, in the memory of. And so it's not just going on with our life, beautiful harnessing it and we talked about this, what we, you know, in the, in the workshop that we did of, of recognizing how the power of love and the pleasure are so important in Judaism. And that's what we lead with. And we lead with life and all of these things connecting to ourself, connecting to our body. Those. Are related to having, you know, a pleasurable, happy Absolutely.
Rebecca Sigala:And now that you're saying it like that, I'm thinking about the fact that I think it really comes down to what people's beliefs and thoughts about sexuality and pleasure are before the war happened. Right? Because if you have certain blocks. To those concepts or trauma or limiting beliefs, then, of course, that's going to come up now because we're really confronted with it. And if you believe that pleasure is really our birthright, pleasure is a mitzvah, pleasure is part of what it means to be alive. It's literally how our bodies are designed, then. There would be less of a conflict Yeah. When things like this come up. So I think it's, it really points to things that we could kind of dive into and
Yonina Rubinstein:work on. Yeah. And even like we have like a mitzvah in Judaism, Bahar, Baim, right. To like choose life. And so if we're saying we're not just choosing to survive, like we are not living in Israel and fighting this war, just to be able to like, You know, grind by and survive, like on a basic level, we want to thrive where we want to live in all the multicolored, passionate ways that we can. And so sometimes that can be the hardest thing. Like I know for myself also struggling with depression or from other people who have experienced loss and people who are, you know, killed family members who were killed that davka choosing. To smile and choosing to go out and choosing to continue our life can be the hardest thing. Like in a lot of ways, it's much easier to just let go and to be like, this is way too hard. I can't anymore. I feel guilty. I feel stressed. I don't have the energy and to just doom scroll and ordering pizza. And Let everything slide and it's much harder to say I'm going to choose to get out of bed and put on makeup this morning. Like I'm going to choose to take my kids to the park and laugh with them and put my phone up. Like really, I'm going to choose to find ways to create a context for myself to be able to experience desire and pleasure. Like you said, like even before the war, that could be hard for us. To experience culture and to create context and like something that we we, that you, this beautiful initiative you did with the IDF wives. The, the iPhone session. Session. Yeah. Right. It's like I participated, I think in one of the first ones and I really felt like, yeah, that was such a gift for me and being able, like for you, that you created for me this space to experience. Pleasure and joy. And I caught like oxytocin. It was like giving
Rebecca Sigala:ourselves like permission to do that. Yeah. Because first of all, I set it up. So it's like, I'm offering this to you. It's like, Oh, is this okay? Like, can I do this? Will it be fun? Could I even get anything out of it? There's all these questions that start to come up. but we're allowing ourselves to focus on ourselves and to connect
Yonina Rubinstein:with our bodies. Yeah, and the fact that you like created that and held that space was so helpful for me.'cause I even came, I was like, I just dropped off the kids and like ran home to grab a bag and I came to, I was like in the middle of all the stress and the day to life and everything going on, and then to just step into this beautiful, calm studio and have someone. Help me reconnect to my body through all of these different tools, like makeup and coaching and, and photography and to just slow down and like, I remember you even said like, okay, now take a deep breath now, let it out. And I was like, yeah, someone's telling me to breathe. Like, that's amazing. I can't even hold all of it. I can't, I'm not reminding myself to breathe. And just to remember, like, oh, that's right. Like to go into my body, like it's safe in here. It's comfortable in here. To slow down. I'm safe right now. Yeah. And, and all of those tools in this crazy situation, why am I saying this? Because I was saying like, even before the war, that's something that was hard for us. So like, I, you know, I talk a lot to women about how to create a context that's Conducive to us experiencing pleasure and a lot of times we think that means more high energy Like we see this a lot in movies. They're like in our culture of like super high in lingerie Alcohol pump up the music like do a lot of toys Like what things can we add on to increase our sex drive or to increase desire? We need like More adventure, more novelty, more, and a lot of times, most of the times, actually what we need is less. We need to slow down and connect to our breath and get in our body. Oh yeah. And that's what actually helps us be able to experience desire and intimacy. So like in I always say that, I
Rebecca Sigala:so agree. I so agree with that. I think, you know, when people ask, how do I feel sexier? How do I love my body more? They Automatically think of things like that, like the surface level things like the lingerie and going out and what movies talk about when women start to, you know, get into the mood or, or feel sexy. And I 100 percent agree with you that those are really the surface level things. And we need to turn into ourselves and really learn how to love our bodies and be exist
Yonina Rubinstein:in our bodies. Yeah. And, and like in the war, it just adds on more and more layers of that, of stress and of trauma and fear. And so to create spaces where we can take a deep breath and say, okay, I'm not gonna, don't worry, guilt. Don't worry. Fear. Don't worry. Stress. I'm not getting rid of you. I just, I'm going to put you here on the side for the next half an hour. And now I'm going to allow myself to enjoy this bath or to enjoy dinner without looking at my phone. And maybe I'll even light a candle and just to create space. Sometimes those things are like the harder choice. Yeah. Yeah. People think of self
Rebecca Sigala:care as like, Oh, fun and bubble baths and whatever, you know, you're just focusing on yourself and prioritizing yourself. But sometimes that takes going beyond our default mode, which is. scrolling or just going on autopilot doing the things that we do every single day. We actually have to stop and like, ask our bodies, what do they need and ask ourselves what we need and prioritize that and trust
Yonina Rubinstein:ourselves. Yeah, like recently I, I've every morning I'm like, I got the kids out and like, okay, I really, really want to go back to sleep right now for an hour, but I can't like, I have too much to do. I have too much to do. And so it's like really interesting to notice that a lot of times we know what we might need or we, we have a feeling that it might probably feel better if I go on a walk today instead of, you know, It's just sitting in front of my computer again, but making those choices a lot of times is really hard, really.
Rebecca Sigala:Totally. I mean, it's funny because my group coaching program started on Sunday and that's exactly what we talk about in the first week. It's self trust and intuition, and it can come down to something as simple as. I need to go to the bathroom right now. Am I going to write this next email or am I going to go to the bathroom? Am I going to honor what my body actually needs? And I think that's really the first step to having more self trust is, really listening to your body and tuning in and slowing down. Yeah.
Yonina Rubinstein:Yeah, it's really, there's so much. I know. There's so much. Because it really is also like it's so intertwined so much of it. Yeah. Like it doesn't matter where you start. Just pick something small, like the one next small step that you can do to, you know, take care of yourself or to move yourself in the direction that you want to be going. And like that will. Set things into motion. Like, like washing your face. Yeah. Right. Like washing your face. Like making, or even eating, like getting, even just having, making food. Like this morning I was like. I'm really hungry. I don't like anything we have at home. Oh, what should I do? I'm just sitting on my phone. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go buy bread that I like. And I'm going to come home and make myself a sandwich. Yes, it's a waste of time. Yes, I should be just sitting down and starting to knock out those emails like you said. But that's not going to serve me. I'm going, you know, it's going to be three hours later. I'm going to be even more starving and not being able to focus. So I Stop, right? I'm the first priority right now. If I don't take care of myself, nothing else can work. Yeah, and it might seem
Rebecca Sigala:okay. I think it compounds on itself. So it might seem okay for a day or two days or three days to kind of neglect yourself, but over time I think we suffer deep consequences and it's not to shame anyone into self care, not at all, but it's so important to just take that first step or just to start to have a dialogue with yourself, have a dialogue with your body and, and just be a little bit more aware of what you need. And that makes
Yonina Rubinstein:a huge difference. Yeah, and I think it's so important also to mention that it's not linear, like, it doesn't mean like, okay, I started taking care of myself. So now, if I start now, I'm just the
Rebecca Sigala:type of person that always
Yonina Rubinstein:takes care of myself. Right? So that we're like, and then and then it puts it like into black and white thinking like, okay, if I stopped doing like, I don't know, let's say someone go out for a walk every morning. And then, you know, for the past week, she hasn't gone on a walk. And then to be like, Oh, that's it. Like I failed. I'm not doing it. I'm not taking care of myself. Exactly what I was talking about in the beginning. Right. And instead of saying like, okay, you know what, this week has been really rough, or I haven't been able to do it, or maybe something else is going to work for me now. Right? Like, like I mentioned, like, I feel like I've been through so many different cycles since the war started and taking care of myself at each different phase looks different and my relationship with my husband looks different and my sex life looks different through each of those different phases and it doesn't mean that one is better or worse to like recognize that we're we're like I I talk a lot about like spirals not not downward spirals but like growth spirals like we'll come back a lot the same issues the same places and we might feel like. Oh, I was in such a better place then how come I and it's not necessarily like I'm going backwards and people Really terrible about that, right? And it's we're growing in lots of different ways at lots of different points in life and we're going to you know Add on to things at different points in our life And it's okay if we stop doing something or something doesn't serve us anymore or if it did serve us and we just couldn't it's also okay like to say yeah, you know with a lot and Washing my face or something. I took a break for a while. I don't think it's
Rebecca Sigala:possible to go backwards to the same place we were because it's just not, that's, that's not what's happening. You're moving forward, you're learning more, you're having more experiences. You're moving forward, right? And I think that when those things come up, it's honestly, for me, it's just an opportunity to go deeper and to learn more and to have a deeper relationship with your body. But I can totally understand that feeling of like, that was a waste like all that work that I did. It's all gone. Right? It's so not the case. It's just like, I think where our minds
Yonina Rubinstein:go. Yeah, it's interesting. I recently not recently this morning, I had a meeting with youth director for like a workshop that I'm going to be giving through this sexual abuse prevention to some teens from a community that were evacuated about boundaries and about about, you know, abuse prevention, but it takes a lot of different angles when we talk to teens. So she said that a lot of The teens in the group are talking about how their boundaries change since they've been living in hotels like, um, interesting for some of them, for example, she gives an example of some of them who were showing a gear like they didn't touch, you know, guys and girls didn't touch. And now everyone's hanging out together in the lobby and they form this kind of like group. So they are touching and how they've been talking about. They're starting to think about going back home and how they want to talk about how they can get back to who they were before and the boundaries that they had before. And I really thought about that, how they can't go back to who they were before. Like they're not the same people and it makes sense that their boundaries are going to change and shift and evolve because they have changed and their experiences are different. And it could be, they want to go back to being Shomar Nagia, but it's going to come from a different place because they are different now. So I'm not going to talk to you. You were evacuated. You went through something hard. And so you let your. You know, you let your boundaries down and now you need to go back to being who you were before and getting them back up to the same standard. But to ask them, like, Maybe really these experiences have changed you and maybe you want to set your boundaries differently and like, yeah,
Rebecca Sigala:it's actually like such a cool opportunity. Like now that you say it like that, I think about the self care and how it ebbs and flows and it's not linear. So sometimes you might Stop doing something for a while and then start again. And that's just really normal and a part of life. But maybe when you stop and you start again, that's an opportunity to think, well, how do I want to take care of myself better? How do I want to take care of myself differently? Like, who am I now? What kind of face wash do I want? Like, whatever it is, you know, and it's kind of fun. Like you get to redesign yourself and your life.
Yonina Rubinstein:Yeah. So much. I talk a lot about that when I teach about sexuality after childbirth. Like people are always saying, okay, well how do I get back? Or even not sexuality, even like body image, like women are always talking about, yeah. Did you get back to yourself? I wanna get back to my, did you bounce back weight, bounce back? Yeah. Bounce back. Pre pregnancy weight, da, da, da. You can't even tell I had a baby after my last baby. I have a 1-year-old. Someone said to me, oh my gosh, you don't even look like you're after you gave birth. And I was so insulted. I said to my husband, I was like. This was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. I am like over the moon in love with my baby and you can't even tell I went through something so momentous. Like you can't even tell I just gave birth. Like. That's that's a source of pride for you. Yeah, like it's so sad. You can't tell this is this is like something I want everyone to know. I just had a baby. But a lot of like this, this idea. So important to point out,
Rebecca Sigala:by the way, everybody should note. When people make comments after birth, it's not a good idea. Not in general, we should not be making comments about people's
Yonina Rubinstein:bodies. Yeah, so anyways, but like wanting to bounce back and to be like, no, we've changed revolve like yourself. Sex life is going to look different. Your body's going to look different. And it, and that's not a bad thing. Like we have this image that we always want to go back to being who we were before something. I think that's so strange. Like I was like this where we want to. Right? Like, why? We don't have the talk to before set, and like, I understand, like, this is a traumatic thing. We don't want to experience it. We want this war to be over, but, but that's not the way life works. Like, we want to be able to move forward. Right? Like,
Rebecca Sigala:so many women, and this is really normal, unfortunately, in our culture, or I shouldn't say normal, common, is that women want to look like they did when they were a teenager. I'm like Girl, you're a woman now, like, you are not 16 anymore, like, you've got curves, you've got hips, like, things have changed, you have life experience, your body is gonna change, like, why do we want to look like we're a child?
Yonina Rubinstein:Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's such a, so I talked for that about hours. Talk about that for hours. It really is. I'm like this cultural phenomenon of like, wanting to always be young and why, and like teenagers, honestly, are some of, I love teens. I love working with teens. I think they're brilliant, but they're also. So stupid, like, like the things I did as a teenager. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I really hope my kids don't do that. They probably will. But like, I like, we want to say that it's really. Anyway, but yeah, but I, but I also have emotional
Rebecca Sigala:aspect to, as our bodies change, like our identities change and when we associate our bodies with like this new, incredible part of our lives, it feels a lot more positive, I think, you
Yonina Rubinstein:know, versus like being like, When am I gonna stop being relevant? I feel like for older people, I'm becoming more relevant, but for teens, I'm like, when am I gonna stop being able to, you know, work with teens? When are they gonna think I'm like, I don't have, you know, I'm gonna not say the cool words. I'm not gonna Oh my God, my 13
Rebecca Sigala:year old this morning said that I was
Yonina Rubinstein:outdated. I was like, okay, my kids Fine. But like, when is it going to be when I walk into a school? I, I think, I mean, I really, really believe that it doesn't have to do with my age. It has to do with my ability to connect to teens and to be able to understand what they're going through and be vulnerable about my experiences so that they're able to feel like, you know, I'm not just like an adult lecturing at them. But I do, you know, whatever. It's interesting. It's a really interesting conversation to have. About, yeah, that,
Rebecca Sigala:that work with teens is so important to be able to start then on this kind of journey is such a gift. Yeah. I mean, I can't even imagine if I started changing my mindset around sexuality and my body when I was
Yonina Rubinstein:16. Yeah, yeah, there's so much it's it's really fascinating to be able to get to work with that age and to see what there's so much pressure that they're experiencing and to give them space to kind of be able to figure things out in a safe space and to have these conversations and to do some critical thinking skills. Really is changes the whole trajectory of, of what, you know, of the relationship to have. Yeah. Yeah. That's so, so beautiful. Oh my gosh. I'm so happy that we had this conversation. Yeah. Thank you for inviting me on here. And it was really, really, I had a good time learning, relearning things about my, myself and these topics. Like it always happens when we talk. It's really
Rebecca Sigala:important to. To bring these things up again and to just remind ourselves of our values. I think a lot of people have, you know, these values of wanting to have a positive body image or taking care of their bodies, listening to their bodies. Like all of these things are not even new concepts to them, but we have to continually remind ourselves because life happens and we live in a world that doesn't exactly lend to. Easily doing those things. And so I think it's just the constant practice.
Yonina Rubinstein:Yeah. We live in a world that I say a lot of times in workshops, like if you just grew up in this world without having any sort of education around these topics of like body relationships, sexuality is going to be near impossible to be able to have a healthy relationship to any of that. Like our culture, you're saying ever, if you don't do the work, like our culture, it doesn't sound right. I say it doesn't sound sexy to tell people that you're actually going to have to put in an effort into creating and cultivating a healthy relationship. Relationship to sexuality and to your body and to, you know, to coupled relationships. But if we just live in this world and we absorb the messages we get from our culture, it's not gonna look good. It's not gonna feel good. So, and that's gonna be so
Rebecca Sigala:difficult too. Like that's what I always say. Like, you know, when people are hesitant about working on their body image or their body confidence because of like, what is it going to bring up? Or is this going to be really
Yonina Rubinstein:hard? And I'm like,
Rebecca Sigala:but. Think about all the places in your life that this is affecting your intimate life, your relationship with food every day when you get up in the morning, you look in the mirror, your career, your kids, like everything. So you're still facing it all the time. You know,
Yonina Rubinstein:it's still really hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Thank you for the work that you do.
Rebecca Sigala:Thank you. You're welcome. Oh my gosh, this is such a good collaboration. Like I'm just I feel like we could talk forever about these topics and yeah, honestly, like we literally just and I know that you probably feel the same way as like we just touched the surface of all of these different things. But I think that you gave some really good practical tips people can have to let go of the guilt and to Step into a new mindset of what pleasure can really look like, especially during wartime. And I really appreciate that. Is there like A message that you want to give women right now, like it doesn't need to be like the message, but maybe just something
Yonina Rubinstein:that you've been thinking about. I think we said it that we really are here to continue life. And as hard as that may feel, I feel like that is our mission right now to continue living well. And in order to do that, we need to take care of ourselves. Yeah, and
Rebecca Sigala:to enjoy life and to experience this pleasure, whether that be sexual pleasure or other kind of pleasure, that's part of life. That's how we were
Yonina Rubinstein:designed. Yeah, and that's how we emerge from this war victorious. Like, if we're tying it into the war and to feeling guilty about that, like, as hard as that is to hear, it's not about how many people we kill on the other side, it really is about how we continue to live afterwards, like, are we, yeah. And we, and I
Rebecca Sigala:think we've seen how the Jewish nation has risen up from the ashes so many times.
Yonina Rubinstein:And,
Rebecca Sigala:We can take our ancestors strength as inspiration and tap into what we really want and what we really need out of life and, and kind of, yeah, switch our mindset.
Yonina Rubinstein:Yes, sir. Perel has like, she talks about how her parents never talked to her about sex or sexuality or erotica. But she said she learned everything she knows about erotica from watching them from the erotic sense and the erotic sense of self. They were two Holocaust survivors. And she said they decided that they weren't just going to survive. But if they were still alive, they were going to, like, suck every shard of life out of their experience. That just gave me the chills. So vivaciously, she learned about what it means to have a sense of erotic self. It's not just like sex, but it's sensuality and pleasure and celebrating being alive in our bodies. So yeah, so we can also
Rebecca Sigala:it's a life force. It really is a life force. Wow. I love, I love her perspective on that and thank you for sharing that. Alright. We're gonna have to do something like this again. I know. We'll, thank you so much for being here. I'll Thank you
Yonina Rubinstein:for having
Rebecca Sigala:me. Such a pleasure. I will definitely leave Yonina's information in the show notes so you can contact her, follow her, all that good stuff. Thank you so much,
Yonina Rubinstein:Yonina. Bye bye.