Let the Body Speak With Jenna Zadaka

What if healing isn't about fixing yourself, but reconnecting with yourself?

In this episode of The Body Image Revolution, I sit down with trauma-informed facilitator Jenna Zadaka for a beautiful conversation about embodiment, self-trust, body image, pleasure, and what it really means to feel at home in your body.

Together, we explore how somatics, yoga, spirituality, and Jewish mystical wisdom can help us reconnect with ourselves and create a deeper sense of safety, wholeness, and belonging.

Learn more about Jenna by visiting her Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/breathandsoul_jenna 

I would love to hear from you on Instagram!
https://www.instagram.com/rebeccasigalastudio

Transcript

Rebecca Sigala 0:00

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Body Image Revolution. Whether you've been here since the very beginning or this is your very first episode, welcome. I am so glad that you're here. If you are new, I'm Rebecca Sigala. I'm a body image coach, fine art boudoir photographer, and host of this amazing podcast. I help self-aware women stop overthinking and finally feel safe and sexy and at home in their bodies. And speaking of at home in their bodies, that's exactly what we're gonna be talking about here today with the incredible Jenna Zadaka. Jenna is a trauma-informed facilitator and healer who helps women really deeply connect with their bodies and themselves through somatic, spirituality, and yoga, all through a kabbalistic mystical lens. I've actually known her since I was little in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and years ago, when my husband and I were both wedding photographers, I had the honor of photographing her beautiful wedding. And after that, we stayed in touch, and we've spoken here and there about our work, but this is maybe only the second time that we've really sat down and explored the ways that our approaches in this space overlap. So today's conversation is amazing. Jenna shares a little bit about her story, and we dive into embodiment and body image and big themes around self-trust and pleasure and your nervous system safety and what it really means to feel confident and sexy and at home in your body. We also explore how all of these things intertwine in both of our work and how they're deeply rooted in Jewish spirituality. I cannot wait for you to listen. Enjoy, my loves. Jenna, thank you so much for coming on today. I'm so happy that we get to have this conversation, and it's been so cool seeing your journey throughout the years. I was thinking about when we first met, and we must have been very little when we first met, and I have no idea when that moment actually was. But growing up in Minnesota and, always kind of knowing you and your family and your sister, but not really knowing so much about you, and then seeing you move to Israel and grow your family, it's just been so beautiful and wonderful to see. And alongside my journey as well, it feels like we have a lot of crossovers, and I'm just excited to learn more about you and what your journey is like and, the work that you're doing and where our work overlaps.

Jenna Zadaka 2:32

Hmm. Well, I'm so honored you reached out. I'll always remember you being there for me on my wedding day, not just as a-

Rebecca Sigala 2:40

Oh

Jenna Zadaka 2:40

my gosh, yes! photographer, but like on a- I

Rebecca Sigala 2:43

almost forgot about that.

Jenna Zadaka 2:45

the holiest day of my life to have such like a friendly, calm, beautiful presence witnessing me in such a threshold. I think more than the photos, like your presence in a potent and vulnerable time, was, you know, immeasurable. And of course we love the photos. They were am- amazing. but behind the camera, the presence witnessing you is really, really special.

Rebecca Sigala 3:19

Oh, wow. Thank you so much for saying that, and that really was such a beautiful and special day, and wow. Wow, thank you for that memory. And it was such a pleasure and such an honor to be there and to witness that.

Jenna Zadaka 3:33

And I remember the transition from wedding photography to when you started doing, boudoir. Is that how you pronounce it?

Rebecca Sigala 3:42

Yeah. Pretty much.

Jenna Zadaka 3:43

Yeah. Boudoir. And it's really... I had never seen that before. It felt really edgy, and, obviously- It's definitely edgy. Yeah. It brought up a lot of, edginess in me witnessing it, like, what is this? Ooh, yeah. And how do I see this? And what, where am I in this? And, you know, very, very brave to step into that and, again, be a witness to women on their journeys- Yeah which is powerful and-

Rebecca Sigala 4:15

Absolutely. I mean, it's so interesting that you brought up the wedding and then boudoir, because people are always like, "How did you get into boudoir?" Like, what... You know, how did that evolve? And I do often mention doing wedding photography first, because that was really where I felt like I started to realize what I enjoyed photographing and witnessing and being a part of. And, like, I, I was stuck alongside the bride, and I loved photographing her and helping her feel comfortable. And being part of that, like, led into me realizing, okay, like, actually I really love photographing women, and I wanna create spaces for them to be able to just, like, be themselves and feel beautiful. So that is really such a perfect representation of, the evolution of my journey. So thanks for sharing that.

Jenna Zadaka 5:04

Um-

Rebecca Sigala 5:05

Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 5:05

I'm really struck by the steady presence in turning towards someone, even in moments of awkwardness or uncertainty. Yeah. And also in moments of, like, surging power of someone, like, really finding a wave of confidence and power, and, like, to really stay with. you yourself must- need to have like a very flowy and steady nervous system to be able to-

Rebecca Sigala 5:31

Mm

Jenna Zadaka 5:31

to look towards and, you know, not look away in awkward moments, but like be with and like see the beauty in all of that.

Rebecca Sigala 5:39

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel like, you know, obviously the nervous system and my relationship with that and my body is something that has evolved over the years. But, sometimes I feel like when I go into these spaces of healing or coaching or photography, it almost feels like a different realm. I don't know if you experience that yourself. It's like I can put down everything else in my own life, all my own stresses, and just like be there. I think just because it feels like my soul's calling, it's supposed to be happening, and I'm supposed to be a part of it, and I'm able to just show up that way no matter what's going on in my life. Do you have that experience?

Jenna Zadaka 6:21

Yeah. It sounds like moments of flow, and I love those glimmers of being in a state of complete flow.

Rebecca Sigala 6:31

Yeah. what do you mean by that exactly? I mean, I feel like I can viscerally imagine it, but what do you mean by a state of flow?

Jenna Zadaka 6:40

when I think of flow, I think of the tree of life mentality where, the only difference between the tree of life and the tree of knowledge, according to some Kabbalists, are that the tree of life had roots and the tree of knowledge did not. Like really they occupy the same space in the center of the garden, but the tree of life had roots. So when we're in a state of flow, it means we're not cut off from our source of vitality, of nourishment, of the wider support systems that hold us. And I know myself, when I get into, insecurity or a state of freeze, it means I've cut off from my roots, and also the roots being the source of life and- Mm um, the source of all abundance. And, I think especially right now in, in this moment of time, we're speaking at the end of Shvat this month of connecting to the tree of life and to that-

Rebecca Sigala 7:37

Ya. Wow

Jenna Zadaka 7:38

awakening with sap and, and rejuvenation, and what a beautiful journey of going from that into our queendom. Next month in the Hebrew calendar is Adar, the month of sovereignty and queenship, and-

Rebecca Sigala 7:53

Yeah

Jenna Zadaka 7:53

and really, um, first we need to have that state of flow and have our center channel open and enlivened to be able to come into our full confidence and sovereign queen selves. So I've been working a lot with my roots and noticing, When I'm cut off from others and when I can attune to others is, is all dependent on if I'm sturdy in my root systems, and the roots are both below and above.

Rebecca Sigala 8:25

Yeah. Wow, that's so interesting. I heard, that the sefirot are connected to our body, and that the lower sefirot are actually like the roots that are like connected from below, and then the upper ones are like the branches that go above. And I find that's just such a beautiful way to think of it in terms of like when I am in that place of, I guess, flow or regulation of being connected below and feeling sturdy in my roots, but then also not like sturdy to the point where it feels stagnant, but like the branches are that expansion. So you're like open and expansive and still so rooted in who you are and connected to God or Source or whatever people believe in.

Jenna Zadaka 9:13

Yeah. I- it reminds me of this quote from Jeremiah, and I'm, I don't know the word for word, but it's something like She's like a tree planted by streams of water. Mm. Her roots are, you know, deep in the water, and because of that, her leaves never wilt, and she doesn't blow away in a storm. And basically, like when, we're connected through those root systems, and not in a frozen, stagnant way, but the roots- Right can open, and we can both draw in nourishment and also give and release and clear through the roots.

Rebecca Sigala 9:50

Beautiful.

Jenna Zadaka 9:51

Um, I think there's nothing sexier than someone in attunement and someone with a clear and flowing nervous system. And, before this podcast, the last few weeks I've been listening to some of your episodes, and it's really like a fresh topic. I've, I was nervous to come here. Like, I've never- Really? I've been on many podcasts about spirituality, and embodiment, but like speaking about, the body revolution and body image is- Yeah is very edgy. even listening and thinking about like, what is... When do I feel sexy, and when do I feel confident? What do I find sexy in others? And I was thinking a lot about that recently as the sexiest thing is a woman who is attuned- Mm and who, has this flowing, easeful nervous system that you- Yeah um, you feel safe with them.

Rebecca Sigala 10:49

Mm. That's really beautiful. I'm curious, as you were listening and just like thinking about these concepts- How does it relate to your work? And maybe I, I know what you do but maybe you could share with the listeners what you do, and I'd love to know, yeah, where does body image come up for you and your clients?

Jenna Zadaka 11:11

Yeah. well, from a more trauma-informed somatic therapy approach, I have really seen that the most healing comes from, one, a safe container. Like, when a woman feels safe. You said you have a bed in your room, right? Yes. I'm sure you open great photos without, like, the dropping into safety and, and trust. Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 11:37

And that's number, number one.

Jenna Zadaka 11:40

Number one, safety and trust. and centering that our body naturally moves towards healing and wholeness when given the space, safety, and witness. And that also means that we have to move into a slower pace, the pace of the body. So slowing down deeply, deeply to the pace of the body. And instead of asking your body to perform, noticing what is coming up, like the bottom-up approach of what is arising and what wants to happen now, what wants to happen next. Yeah. Noticing and acknowledging versus a performative, place where it's a top-down approach. It's really this bottom-up approach. Mm-hmm. And

Rebecca Sigala 12:29

then,

Jenna Zadaka 12:30

and seeing that I'm not the expert of anyone's body. they are the expert, and their body is the expert. And getting your client or your student to trust in their own body and-

Rebecca Sigala 12:44

Yeah

Jenna Zadaka 12:44

there's nothing more beautiful than letting the body speak, that bottom-up approach. If we're talking about the tree of life, in Kabbalah, there's two directions of information and light that the Kabbalists use. There's Or Yeshar, which is a downward flow of energy, which is top-down. Mm-hmm. Like the divine into the earth or the mind over the body, or this, like, flow of wisdom from above to below, and that's more of the masculine direction. And then the feminine direction is Or Hozer, which is a returning reflective light that's bottom-up, that's earth to sky or body to mind. Mm-hmm. And it's, that takes a slower, darker, more mysterious approach, which, is really the more feminine. Yeah. And tuning, tuning into those subtle, slow messages from the body that is not linear, and often comes not in, obvious- language or linear message, but comes in images or- Mm-hmm symbols- Mm-hmm or rituals or sensations. And, so all of that, I think, really comes down to having a trust that our body is divine and whole.

Rebecca Sigala 14:03

Mm-hmm.

Jenna Zadaka 14:03

And it may have been disrupted with trauma or triggers, or there has been things that are frozen or stuck that are waiting to come back to- Yeah the wholeness.

Rebecca Sigala 14:15

Yeah. With my coaching program, the first module is self-trust and intuition, because I feel that that is truly the foundation of everything. And obviously, it's not just something you have and then, okay, you don't have to ever think about it again, because life ebbs and flows, and our relationship with our body is a relationship. Mm-hmm. So it's something that you continue to cultivate over time. But without a certain foundation of self-trust, then there's so much that can't happen. Like, even if you're just talking about being in a photography session or doing yoga or whatever you might be doing, it's like without trusting your body, there's so many physical and emotional blockages there. I was curious, is yoga your main modality or do you use other things now? It seems like you've expanded.

Jenna Zadaka 15:07

Yeah. So yoga is definitely my first embodiment practice. Like, I grew up in competitive sports. Yeah, me too. My dad really kind of forced me into it. I'm not a competitive person at all. And I was like forced into, um, soccer- All kinds of- And look, I was captain of lacrosse and- Yes I hated it, but I didn't... I hated it. but I was full on, you know, that I didn't know- Whoa another, another way, um, until I discovered yoga and meditation, and that really brought me into my body in-

Rebecca Sigala 15:44

How old were you when you started?

Jenna Zadaka 15:46

Um, in high school.

Rebecca Sigala 15:48

Yeah? Me

Jenna Zadaka 15:48

too, actually. I was

Rebecca Sigala 15:49

driving...

Jenna Zadaka 15:50

Yeah. I was driving to Hopkins, my high school at the time, and there was this new like- This is Hopkins. Hopkins, Hopkins. Yes.

Rebecca Sigala 15:59

There

Jenna Zadaka 15:59

was this new organic cafe and I like pulled in to get a smoothie. They asked if I needed a job. They were also teaching yoga there, and so like I did an exchange for free yoga classes. I like worked at the restaurant. It was this whole like opening into yoga and now yoga doesn't do it for me fully. Like, I have expanded into, embodiment as like a lifestyle, but-

Rebecca Sigala 16:28

Mm

Jenna Zadaka 16:29

also authentic movement, has brought me more into embodiment in a fuller way, um- Mm-hmm five rhythms, grief. There's nothing like grief to slow you down and bring you into your body.

Rebecca Sigala 16:40

Mm. So it's like somatic therapy?

Jenna Zadaka 16:45

yeah, I have been in somatic therapy, and I've offered somatic therapy. but I think it's, it's really a slowing down, coming into the feminine, into the cycles, into the seasons, listening to the body instead of pushing forward. and sometimes yoga does it for me, and sometimes it doesn't, and having different ways of expressing and-

Rebecca Sigala 17:06

Yeah

Jenna Zadaka 17:06

moving, moving into your flow, you know,

Rebecca Sigala 17:10

That's really cool.

Jenna Zadaka 17:11

Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 17:11

So, like, if someone were to come and say, like, "I wanna work with you," what's your process like? and what would the goal be? Is it reconnecting with their body? Is it slowing down? Is it getting into their feminine? Like, what, what's your focus?

Jenna Zadaka 17:25

Yeah. So one of my main- modalities in the last few years has been working with the subtle energy centers through Tree of Life healing. As you mentioned the sefirot earlier. So many people in our culture, know the chakras and work with the chakras. But I have found that the sefirot They, they have a lot of similarities and overlaps with the chakras, but I find them a more dynamic system and very useful, um, how-

Rebecca Sigala 17:53

Sorry to interrupt, but how would you define the sefirot for someone who doesn't know?

Jenna Zadaka 17:57

Yeah. Thank you. They are the divine emanations of the Tree of Life. They are, energy centers in the body. They're how we interrelate with others and how we connect with the divine and ourselves. And someone who, uh, recently has realized my own neurodivergence, um, in the last few years, really discovering my own neuro- divergence and, befriending my nervous system more and more. The Tree of Life healing has been the main source for me for my own wellness journey into, wholeness, and also seeing how any person from any background can come in and find their equilibrium, find alignment and balance-

Rebecca Sigala 18:45

Mm.

Jenna Zadaka 18:45

Beautiful and see where their suffering is in this paradigm and be able to make meaning of it in a wider context. so I have one-on-one sessions that are shavasana sessions, which we do one-on-one work. It's very, like, somatic, into the Tree of Life healing. And then I also have more, like, group courses and, um, community gathers around it. But yeah, I find that everyone, when brought into this understanding of the sefirot can find themself in it and find healing. Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 19:22

I would love to hear more about this journey that you started in high school, if you feel comfortable sharing. Just like going from competitive sports, like growing up in Minnesota and into something that I don't, I don't know what it was like for you growing up in your house, but for me, like the life that I live now is so different than the way that I was raised. Do you have that experience as well? Yes. Like, there was like, for me, very little spirituality. a lot more things were on the surface. Like mind-body connection was not something that was spoken about. And so I'm curious, like how did you create that bridge and like, yeah, what was your experience with all of that?

Jenna Zadaka 20:09

Yeah, I definitely didn't feel like I belonged in my family of origin, in my community, in my area. Um, so belonging, again, connecting to my roots is also feeling like, a wider sense of belonging. And seeing my son, now who's 10, who is very clearly neurodivergent, And being able to see myself in that and realize I grew up with that same, um, nervous system, and it's something to be celebrated. Like, I'm very proud and confident about it now, but before I understood some of these sensitivities and some of my powers, I didn't feel like I belonged until I could really defend my nervous system. And so yes, I was pushed into these, like, competitive sports. I performed great. I performed great in school. Something always felt missing deeply. Yeah. And all, you know, our souls come down, and they have a certain purpose and mission, and I was always a spiritual seeker from a young age. I didn't know where to turn to explore that or to explore my visualizations or my dreams or-

Rebecca Sigala 21:24

Yeah

Jenna Zadaka 21:25

like symbols. That meant a lot to me, but my dad is like a very logical doctor. Um, everything was very, like, black and white. So I, I think every soul comes down with certain, um, they're gonna find their path, and I had to move through a lot to, come into my authenticity.

Rebecca Sigala 21:48

I was wondering if like, and just 'cause I know you personally, and like your sister, she also got into the whole world of yoga and embodiment and how is it that you both kind of moved towards that? Was there any kind of spark in that, like in your home or the way that you were raised? Or is just something that- I was

Jenna Zadaka 22:06

like...

Rebecca Sigala 22:06

Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 22:07

It's all for you. It's so funny that you ask 'cause we just, for the first time since high school, are living together. Now? I mean, not in the same house. Oh my gosh. But in Boulder. Yeah. She lives up the canyon. Um, I go to her house and take outside herbal baths and, um- Oh my God,

Rebecca Sigala 22:23

that's

Jenna Zadaka 22:23

amazing yeah, I go to her yoga classes sometimes. She comes to my new moon Rosh Chodesh circles. Our lives are like- For the first time since high school, and I mean, they're coming for dinner tonight for African stew. But for- That's

Rebecca Sigala 22:38

so cute

Jenna Zadaka 22:38

the majority of my like adulting life-

Rebecca Sigala 22:40

I'll let them say

Jenna Zadaka 22:41

hi. Yeah. Um, we're very opposite in many ways, and we came at the yoga world from, like, totally opposite directions. and it's interesting, I'm still exploring that question. Like, how did we grow up in the same household? We are so opposite in many ways, but yet we're both teaching yoga and in healing professions. And h- her soul is, like, very, very different than mine. Yeah. Um, and what we're connected to, um, uh, like in lineage and ancestor work, all of it, is very different, and it's not always easy. You know? We-

Rebecca Sigala 23:19

Yeah

Jenna Zadaka 23:20

definitely are learning how to, like, be together. my nervous system and her nervous system. Like, how do we- Yeah co-be in this world? Um. So

Rebecca Sigala 23:28

you wouldn't say that it was something in your childhood that led you both to yoga and embodiment work? It's

Jenna Zadaka 23:33

just- No. I think we came- Wow from very different, different ways, different directions towards it. I came more from a spiritual lens. Like, I first came into wanting to know about God, and spirituality, and Kabbalah, and my natural direction is up and out. Like, that's where I naturally go, up and out. And every time I've done any sort of healing work, it's always, the message is always like, "Jenna, you need to go down and in." Like opposite. Mm-hmm. Like, take yourself down and in. Go into the dark, into your body, not just out to the light and to the angels. Yeah. Like, I can connect to that very easily, my roots above, but coming into the roots below is really my life's work. And-

Rebecca Sigala 24:20

Mm.

Jenna Zadaka 24:22

Yeah, and it's, a lot of it, like you said earlier, has been about trust. Like trusting in the darkness, trusting to go down into the mystery of the body and the earth, and know that there's the oneness of Atzilut. the divine oneness that's up there is also down here.

Rebecca Sigala 24:38

Yeah. And

Jenna Zadaka 24:39

finding that as well.

Rebecca Sigala 24:42

Wow, that's really beautiful.

Jenna Zadaka 24:45

Yeah. You know how to- Even with your sister. your sister and I were in the same Hebrew school a long time ago.

Rebecca Sigala 24:51

That's

Jenna Zadaka 24:51

amazing. So yeah. Do you guys have similar approaches to life? To life? To-

Rebecca Sigala 24:59

No, we are so different. No? We are

Jenna Zadaka 25:02

so different. That's good to

Rebecca Sigala 25:03

hear. She lives in Austin, Texas, and I, you know, obviously live here in the Judean Hills in Israel, and we have such different lives. I mean, also for the first time, like, you know, she's starting to have kids, and so now we're getting at a more similar stage in our life, but we are very, very different. But I've always been like, you know, very similar to you. It's like never really felt like I belonged, and was always searching for something, for truth, for spirituality. Like, I just kept feeling like growing up like, there has to be something more than this. Like this can't be life, you know? and then when I began learning Torah in high school, I really connected to it, and I decided that like I wanted to go to Israel and start learning more. And then I think there was really... I don't even think it's like so logical. I think it was really just an emotional thing coming to Israel and feeling like, okay, yeah, I really do feel home here. And for someone who doesn't feel like they belong or never felt like they belonged, that's a really big deal. Mm-hmm.

Jenna Zadaka 26:12

Yeah. So, and the first place we belong is in our own body. Yeah. And if we don't belong in our own body, we can't really find ourself anywhere, so I also really- Mm-hmm discovered that in Israel. It helped, just connecting to the land of Israel helped me connect to my own body, which made me feel, like, a wider- Yeah sense of belonging.

Rebecca Sigala 26:33

Yeah, absolutely. I really think that there's so many, I actually talk about it a lot, like, ties of embodiment, like being in your body, and being able to be, like, fully, like, in your homeland. But, your body is also your home, and, your body is actually what takes you to all the places that you go throughout the day and throughout your life. Mm-hmm. And that is really where we need to belong first, is to ourselves.

Jenna Zadaka 27:01

Yeah. I was just listening to a class by Ruby Gibson, who has a book about somatic archeology, and she talks about just like in archeology when we're digging in a land and finding both treasures and, things that are not great. You know, when we're- Yeah digging in the earth, we find both, When we go into our own excavation and our own inner flesh and really allow ourself to go into those, like, deeper places, we have both ancestral wisdom and ancestral trauma. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And there's so much there. And each time we have to trust in it, and go deeper and deeper, and clear and heal, and then go deeper and deeper. And, and really, um, when we enter our full body, we're healing seven generations back and seven generations- Wow forward, and

Rebecca Sigala 27:51

it's- Wow. Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 27:53

That's

Rebecca Sigala 27:54

amazing.

Jenna Zadaka 27:55

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Sigala 27:55

have you noticed, like, I find that in the world of spirituality and embodiment, and spirituality not just in the religious Jewish world, but just in general, there's a lot of, like, um, rejection of the body. Mm-hmm. in terms of what I believe that the Torah is actually trying to give us, I don't believe that's in line with Torah. But we get this kind of feeling of like, there's something wrong with our bodies, or we have to rise above our bodies. Mm-hmm. And I'm curious what your approach is to that, because you are so body-centered. Mm-hmm. and, like, how you feel about that, in terms of, really being able to fully experience our body in this physical world, the pleasure, being able to look at it and see it as beautiful or sexy, like, these kind of themes around the sensual part of body image. do you find that as something that's very important, either on your journey or what you help clients with? and what would you say to someone who's like, "Oh, well, I'm a spiritual person. I'm not..." You know? "So that, that doesn't really matter." Do you know what I mean?

Jenna Zadaka 29:05

Yeah. Yeah. As you're talking, I have this image of the Shekhinah, which, the feminine divine presence in Jewish and mystical lore. The Shekhinah, when the Israelites were expelled from the temple and persecuted, there's a Midrash, a oral lore, of the Shekhinah crying and leaving the walls, and grieving that, like, she is gonna be expelled with the people. And there's this, like, grief in being disconnected from her home. And the word Shekhinah literally means to dwell.

Rebecca Sigala 29:44

Right.

Jenna Zadaka 29:45

and so in our own tradition, there was this, like, separation between the body and the soul, and the Shekhinah was weeping with us and for us. Mm-hmm. She's also seen as this compassionate mother, but also the divine weeps with us in that disconnect. and it's real. it's true that- that feminine Shekhinah that animates and sustains our flesh and is the presence that is, bottom-up, that's really with us in our pain and our grief and, was, you know, expelled. and as we are drawing our soul back into our body to fully animate our full flesh, that's when there's a unity between body and soul, and that's really when the feminine and the masculine of God is, like, united in wholeness. Mm-hmm. And so I think-

Rebecca Sigala 30:35

But you're saying, like, it has to be together. It can't... It's not a... Yeah. Not has to be, obviously. No, no. But, like, that is the wholeness, and that's the holiness is- Mm-hmm is the body and soul in unison.

Jenna Zadaka 30:49

Yeah, even as we're moving towards this month of Adar, in our queenship and sovereignty, and it's a very feminine, month in the calendar. Adar can be broken up into Aleph Dar. Dar is like a dwelling. So an Aleph is the letter of oneness and divine, you know, spirituality, interconnectedness. So Adar, being in our full sovereign queen selves, is bringing the oneness, the Aleph, into the dwelling, the Dar of the body, into our vessel. And really, all of Kabbalah and all of spirituality, in essence, is about illuminating and filling up our vessels to receive the oneness and light. But we have to widen our vessels to receive. We have to be sturdy containers in our body to receive, um, from the- Was that

Rebecca Sigala 31:41

ever, like, a challenge for you? or was that something that came

Jenna Zadaka 31:44

naturally? definitely my natural movement is, as I said, up and out. when I became baal teshuva, I was very much into, like, leaving the, you know, the- Physical physical and duality, and coming into bliss and oneness. And as I, moved into my femininity more, and trusting the body more, I realized that spirituality is not supposed to be about escapism. Mm-hmm. Escaping the challenge, or it's not supposed to be, more easeful up there, because we can leave our challenges, and discomforts. But it's about staying present with any discomfort and challenge, and that's what embodiment is, is can I be present in the flow to flow, day to day, moment to moment awareness, and be present. It sounds

Rebecca Sigala 32:39

like turning physical is a little bit of, like, a

Jenna Zadaka 32:42

cop-out. Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 32:45

Because I

Jenna Zadaka 32:46

think- For sure, mm-hmm we

Rebecca Sigala 32:48

think it's, like, this loftier, holier thing. But actually, it's avoidance, you're saying.

Jenna Zadaka 32:53

Yeah, definitely. avoidance, bypassing. It's way easier in the world of Atzilut, when everything's one and bliss. Yeah. But we're, there's many layers to this reality, and our soul was sent down into our body for a reason. We're gonna be in heaven, and our soul will be connected to its source for most of all eternity. We have this, like, small, I don't know how many reincarnations we have, but we have this small opportunity to be in the body, and feel pleasure, and feel grief, and be in- Yeah intimacy. And it's that, King Solomon says, "Know God in all your ways." And when I hear that- Mm-hmm I'm like, oh, I also get to know God through taste, and through pleasure, and desire, and, and also the hard feelings, like being, being really present with my heart when it's ripped open in grief, or feeling completely abandoned or neglected. Like, being with that instead of trying to escape it. Um- Yeah we have a short opportunity to do so.

Rebecca Sigala 33:55

Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with that, and that was one of the things that actually drew me to Judaism in the first place, that it wasn't that the body was bad, or that sensuality was bad, or you're supposed to leave all your material pleasures, 'cause, like, I'm a Taurus. I don't know if you're into astrology, but I'm a Taurus. I'm like classic, like, love, pleasure, and, like, good food, and the- you know, just the pleasures of the world. Like, it's just something that has always really like, drew me. But then I also have this very spiritual side, and what I feel that, like, really my calling in this life is to, and for, I think most people, is to take the physical and to elevate it. And that's when it just feels so, Well, first of all, it's more pleasure.

Jenna Zadaka 34:46

Which

Rebecca Sigala 34:46

is more pleasure. Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 34:47

Yeah, more pleasure. Like,

Rebecca Sigala 34:48

more amazing. Um- Yes,

Jenna Zadaka 34:50

please. More pleasure, please

Rebecca Sigala 34:52

real connection to yourself and to God.

Jenna Zadaka 34:54

Mm-hmm. It reminds me of one of my favorite lines in Tehillim, is, "Taste and see the divine is good." Ooh. It doesn't say, "Pray and see the divine is good," or, "Contemplate," or, you know, um, "Meditate and see the divine is good," but taste. Like, through our embodied sensation and pleasure- Yes, Devorah slowing down, not eating, but, like, tasting with our- Mm. full sensation. Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 35:23

Yeah,

Jenna Zadaka 35:23

opening our senses and letting the divine in there is the most juicy, feminine way to experience ta'anug, which is divine pleasure. Um, in the Tree of Life, pleasure comes from Keter, the crown, where the top seat of the crown, we have divine pleasure, is up there. It's not some lowly, animalistic thing that we should, you know, kick to the side, but it is... when we connect that pleasure to the source of all pleasure and the source of abundance, there's nothing higher.

Rebecca Sigala 35:57

That's amazing.

Jenna Zadaka 35:59

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Sigala 35:59

Okay, so there's like the different pieces of embodiment and This whole idea of, like, body image, I think is... You said it was kind of edgy, and I'm curious what you mean by that and if it's spoken about, if it's something that you think about. Like, what, what do you think of body image? Like, as a whole. Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 36:23

Yeah. I think I've learned a lot from being here in Boulder, where most of my friends are in perimenopause or menopause. Just it happens to be the community I'm in. I'm definitely the youngest of all my friends. Mm-hmm. And I've seen that as they age, they get more sexy because they are... It's not youth that is sexy or a particular body part, but it's about embodiment is sexy.

Rebecca Sigala 36:54

Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 36:54

And when a woman is fully in their body and confident and able to attune to others, there's something so endearing about that.

Rebecca Sigala 37:06

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Jenna Zadaka 37:08

So I've learned a lot about

Rebecca Sigala 37:09

that. And it doesn't come naturally. I mean, I don't think, 'cause there's definitely older women that lean towards that journey, and then there's other women who don't. Like, one of the reasons why I became so passionate about body image was talking to my almost, you know, I think she must've been 80 years old at the time when I was talking to my grandma, and she was like, "You know, I just, I have to lose five more pounds, this belly fat." And I was like, "Oh my God, First of all, you're beautiful." And then I thought about it, like, for myself and in relation to myself, and I was like, "Am I really gonna be thinking like this for the rest of my life? There's no way out of this?" You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And so there are women who do become more embodied, and they go on this healing journey, and they really connect to themselves. And then there's women who don't have the opportunity to do that or don't have the awareness of that, and then they stay stuck in the societal bullshit that we've been handed. So I think it could go either way.

Jenna Zadaka 38:15

Yeah. And I, I think what the woman I've learned from here, one of them being Mitten Lowe, I was in her Medicine Woman program. Ooh. Um, she really taught the leaning into the seasons as our feminine power- Mm-hmm and allowing the, just like all four seasons are needed for a healthy ecosystem, right? Yeah. We have these different seasons of the body. if you look at your whole lifespan, there's, you know, moving into the winter of, like, your menopause- Is just as beautiful a season as, like, your youthful spring, sexy, fertile years. Yeah. As being totally, like, in reverence of the cycle of the woman and the cycle of the seasons. I feel like the Hebrew calendar has taught me that again and again. Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 39:09

That

Jenna Zadaka 39:10

moving through every single Hebrew month with different invitations for embodiment. Really, every Hebrew month has different chush, spiritual senses to bring you into embodiment, that when we can lean into grief in, say, Tammuz, and lean into taste and pleasure in Shvat, and freedom in Nissan, and also healing in Iyar, like, every season has their own purpose for wholeness. And a few nights ago I was at my son's hip hop concert and it's really a scene. It's like a, a scene. You see all the moms and everyone's dressed up for their, you know, in their best. And, what I remember is not like what that person looked like or what they were wearing, but like how they made me feel and even in small talk, like did I feel safe and connected to this person? That felt sexy. And when I say sexy, like any connection, vulnerability is really sexy and, um-

Rebecca Sigala 40:14

I'm with you. And,

Jenna Zadaka 40:15

you know, and y- you can be like beautiful and dressed up and cold and aloof and nobody will find you sexy or appealing because you're just like a frozen ice castle. You're not approachable. And then there's this like warmth of someone that like envelops you into their world and you feel nourished with like a few words from them. Like- Mm-hmm it, it's a sexy feeling to, to be in that- Yeah connection.

Rebecca Sigala 40:44

Yeah. And I think that that comes with a certain confidence in yourself. Mm-hmm. Like people kind of think that the people who are cold and aloof and like above it all, they're the ones that are confident. But I don't really see that as confident. I see confidence as grounded confidence when you like really know yourself so well that you can move through the world and- Mm-hmm create these deeper connections with people. And I guess like I, I'm imagining kind of like what you're saying, like these people who are like in connection and you feel safe with them and they're able to be vulnerable, that comes with a certain understanding and awareness of themselves. Mm-hmm. their strengths, their weaknesses, and being able to kind of accept themselves as a whole. And then when they show up in the world, they're not fighting anything. They're not trying to prove anything. They just are, and you feel that, you know?

Jenna Zadaka 41:43

Yeah. Yeah, you can tell when someone's been present with themself through the seasons. Yeah. You can tell if someone has really held their heart through grief and then can fully be in their joy and laughter and- Yeah that you're only as safe as they are in their nervous system in any connection. So- Yeah I think the, the most sexy thing is when you can relate to people- Yes and flow in and out of connection as is safe.

Rebecca Sigala 42:12

Yeah. 'Cause there's a groundedness in yourself which is really- Yeah which is really beautiful and, important. What is something- Yeah, I'm not there

Jenna Zadaka 42:22

though. Not there.

Rebecca Sigala 42:24

It's like, so my program is called The New Sexy, and I was so sick of hearing like, you know, skinny is the new sexy, strong's the new sexy. But, you know, and people are starting to make it like, oh, strong's the new sexy because skinny's not the new sexy. But then I'm like, okay, we're just creating another standard, you know? And so for like nervous system regulation's the new sexy- The new sexy but it's kind of another standard. You know what I mean?

Jenna Zadaka 42:46

Another standard. Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Sigala 42:48

Yeah. Like, we don't want the standards because everyone's on their own healing journey. It's like, where you're at is okay, and it's important to know where you're at so you can kind of move from there. I agree with you. It's super sexy to have a, you know, a regulated nervous system, but What if you don't? You know what I mean? Like, what if you're in a war? What if you're, like, stressed the fuck out? Like, What if you're going through challenges that feel, like, outside of you? what would you recommend for people do that? Like, what's, a really good, first step that they can do that will help them reach more regulation and embodiment?

Jenna Zadaka 43:31

Mm. Yeah. Firstly, you're touching on something bigger, that embodiment is not personal, but it's systemic, right? If you're under constant threat, it's actually very wise of the body to disconnect.

Rebecca Sigala 43:46

Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 43:46

And we don't wanna be in a state of embodiment when we're under even cultural, threats to the body. Yeah. So it is a systemic issue, and, a wider also cultural phenomenon to be in or out of connection with the body. So thank you for just naming that. Um- Mm 'cause it doesn't mean it's your fault if there are these external-

Rebecca Sigala 44:09

Yeah

Jenna Zadaka 44:09

threats to your- I'm so glad that we said that safety. Yeah. so glad you just honored that. And, and also going back to the body's pace is incrementally slower than our mind of, like, where we wanna be. And I think the biggest, practice is spending time each day listening to what the body is in. Not, like, what am I feeling, but what am I noticing, and what wants to happen now and what wants to happen next? So noticing could be like, "Mm, I feel really stretchy in my torso." And then what wants to happen? Maybe your body needs to stretch that out, and then that opens your heart, and then you acknowledge, "Oh, now I feel this, like, warm feeling of my heart. this is a message that my heart is feeling warm and safe 'cause I listened, I allowed, and I moved into what wanted to happen." It could be

Rebecca Sigala 45:07

Listen, allow, move into what wants to happen shaking.

Jenna Zadaka 45:11

It could be my legs are shaking and that there's a tremor that needs to be... That I'm not putting a story or meaning-making yet around the tremor, or this is good or this is bad. It's like, oh, my body wants to shake. Okay, I'm allowing my body to shake. Okay, now it's moving into my pelvis. I'm noticing there's, uh... It feels a little scary in my mind, but when I come into my body, it's shaking and I'm... Okay, I'm noticing now there's some energy being released through my pelvis. Oh, it feels like it's such a relief. Oh, now I can exhale. Okay, my exhale is I moved through something.

Rebecca Sigala 45:52

Mm.

Jenna Zadaka 45:52

Good job, body. Good job. Thank you for showing me that I needed

Rebecca Sigala 45:56

to

Jenna Zadaka 45:56

slow down and shake that out, and that sigh brought me into a little bit more regulation. Yeah. So it's really like moment to moment. It's not like, oh, my nervous system is healed. It's yesterday I was super flowy, but today I am not available for connection, and my body is asking me to lay down, bring one hand on my heart, maybe feeling my anchors. So for me, my personal three anchors are heartbeat, breath, and body on the earth. So I like to feel my heart on the earth supported. I like to feel my breath moment to moment caressing me from the inside. I like to feel my heartbeat, those three things bring me into myself. And maybe when I go in through one of these anchors or all three of these anchors, I'll see, oh, I wasn't in congruence with my sadness. I was smiling and connecting with people, but that was not congruent with where I was, which was needing to ride this wave of sadness, grief. And if I really sink into the grief, something will emerge on the other end.

Rebecca Sigala 47:08

Right.

Jenna Zadaka 47:09

You know? a wisdom or darkness is the teacher or a new insight. Right. I think insight follows embodiment.

Rebecca Sigala 47:19

Mm-hmm. It's almost like in order to have those moments of peace and regulation, you do have to go through those times when it's not like that.

Jenna Zadaka 47:31

Yeah, day to day. we have so much... We are bombarded, assaulted really, with a fast-paced society of imagery and messages and we need a safe space of quietude. It says in Pirkei Avot, "There's nothing better for the body than silence." Mm. It doesn't mean we're gonna be, like, in bliss. It means maybe we're in silence face planting on the ground- crying. Yeah. And, but those tears move you, and maybe there's a release through your shoulders. Maybe you're rolling on the ground. Maybe then you have an image. Like, really allowing your body to body, to do what- Yeah and that's how it shows us- It sounds

Rebecca Sigala 48:12

like a lot of awareness and just, like, allowing.

Jenna Zadaka 48:16

Yeah. And it's hard to do on your own. Sometimes you need a container first of someone to witness you- Yes and to feel safe to go there.

Rebecca Sigala 48:26

That's beautiful. What do you wish that more women knew about the work that you do? Is there anything that's, like, misunderstood?

Jenna Zadaka 48:39

Hmm. Such a good question Um, I would say that our journey is our offering.

Rebecca Sigala 48:46

Mm.

Jenna Zadaka 48:46

And, what I love about the power of the circle, which is most of my offerings are very circular, meaning I'm not the teacher, or it's not this hierarchical like I am the expert of your body or, you know, um, I am the teacher and you are the students. But the power of the circle is that everyone brings their magic to the center.

Rebecca Sigala 49:10

Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 49:11

And when you can be vulnerable yourself as a space holder and have moved through your own trauma and grief and, um- With you yeah, then everyone else in the circle can sink into theirs a little bit deeper. So I have not mastered the art of facilitation, but what I, I think the ones that have mastered it fully, and you know, we're always moving towards there, is, the magic of the space holder, where it's not them. Their ego is not present. It's not their voice and, their story, but they have like almost created this open space for other people to be, to fill in and feel a, space of belonging, to feel held- Yeah to feel, in connection.

Rebecca Sigala 49:59

Yeah. So- I think it's really important for people to be aware of when they're entering spaces that are-

Jenna Zadaka 50:05

Mm

Rebecca Sigala 50:06

someone that is facilitating or like a leader because like, as powerful as it can be, it can also be the opposite, you know? and so I'm glad that you mentioned that of like, you know, being a leader who helps other people be their own leader versus- Mm like really empowering people To tap into their own power. Mm. And you said they know their body best. They get to tap into their own self-trust and intuition versus continuing to outsource it to anyone or anything else. And-

Jenna Zadaka 50:40

Yeah

Rebecca Sigala 50:41

that is like the most powerful thing. And I think because it's the most powerful thing, it can be so abused as well. So that's really, really special, and I love that. Thank you for

Jenna Zadaka 50:51

naming that. Thank you so much for naming that, especially in the embodiment and somatic world where you can get so vulnerable. There is a lot of even subtle Power dynamics can create great harm. Yeah. And I have personally been on the receiving end of- Yeah that great harm in a power dynamic, which I'm still healing from in a container that wasn't safe and healthy. And, um, thank you for naming that because- Mm-hmm it is so common for people to be hurt in such subtle ways in these spaces, and feel alone in them. Because you, you go in for healing and you leave worse than when you came in. Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 51:31

Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 51:31

That it was a, the, the, the power dynamic was abused, or there was ego that got in the way of pure healing. Yeah. Yeah. That happens also in therapy. Like, you know, there's such a push for everyone to have a therapist, but actually bad therapists or bad therapy- Mm-hmm containers can be worse than going to therapy. and that's why coming back into your intuition and trust, and being really discerning about what container you allow yourself to fully melt in- Yeah and be vulnerable in is really important.

Rebecca Sigala 52:05

Yeah. Self-trust is- With safety

Jenna Zadaka 52:06

is number one

Rebecca Sigala 52:07

self-trust and safety. Yeah. And self-trusting, number one. Safety.

Jenna Zadaka 52:11

And sovereignty. As soon as something feels off, and really listening to yourself and, and not trying to, like- Question not trying to override your intuition. And self-trust- Mm has been something huge that I've had to come back into after being in a harmful, therapy dynamic that I'm so happy you brought up. Yes. Yeah. I'm so,

Rebecca Sigala 52:36

so

Jenna Zadaka 52:36

sorry that

Rebecca Sigala 52:37

you went through that. I'm so

Jenna Zadaka 52:39

sorry. Yeah, my journey is my offering. So what I learned in there is like, oh, I never would do that to my client. those subtle, um, moments can make a, a really, really big impact in someone's journey. So-

Rebecca Sigala 52:55

Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 52:55

Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 52:57

Wow.

Jenna Zadaka 52:58

and remember the archetype of the wounded healer, because if you put this guru status on anyone, it's dangerous. Like, oh, they're, you know, they're in the therapy seat, they're perfect and healed and whole, and, and that in itself is a danger. So remembering, like, the therapist is healing. We're all, like-

Rebecca Sigala 53:20

Yeah, we're all on a journey.

Jenna Zadaka 53:21

Yeah. The circle is where the healing happens. Like- And coming into your own trust and not spilling all your trust into somebody else externally.

Rebecca Sigala 53:31

Yeah.

Jenna Zadaka 53:31

It's about coming into your own power and trust. So-

Rebecca Sigala 53:35

Wow. I feel like we just started this conversation and now we have to end

Jenna Zadaka 53:39

it. Yes.

Rebecca Sigala 53:40

Um, but like there's so much there, and I know that people will really get so much just from hearing that, and I'm so grateful that you came on today and shared a little bit of your story and your wisdom, and I'm just really excited to share this with everyone. I'm gonna- Thank you for having

Jenna Zadaka 53:59

me.

Rebecca Sigala 54:00

You're welcome.