Lymphatics in Pelvic Health: What Pelvic Health Practitioners Need to Know

Pelvic health clinicians are trained to assess muscles, fascia, joints, and organs – but one powerful system influencing pelvic function is often overlooked: the lymphatic system.

In this episode, Lynn is joined by pelvic health therapist and certified lymphedema specialist, Mary Ellen Kramp, to discuss why lymphatic function deserves more attention in pelvic health care.

The lymphatic system plays a critical role in fluid balance, immune function, and tissue health, yet it’s rarely emphasized in traditional PT training. When lymphatic flow becomes impaired in the abdomen or pelvis, it may contribute to symptoms clinicians commonly see – such as bloating, pelvic heaviness, tissue congestion, and urinary urgency.

Mary Ellen shares how practitioners can begin recognizing lymphatic involvement through tissue quality, palpation findings, and clinical patterns, particularly during pregnancy, postpartum recovery, and after surgeries like C-sections.

This conversation invites clinicians to expand their lens and consider how lymphatic congestion may be influencing pelvic symptoms they treat every day.

Have a comment or question about today’s episode? Message Lynn on Instagram or Facebook, or Email Lynn.

If you enjoyed today’s podcast and are interested in more topics to support your clinical practice and treating your clients, find us on your favorite podcast app and subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.

To learn more visit: InstituteforBirthHealing.com

Visit Institute for Birth Healing to learn more about how to care for the pregnant and postpartum body: CLICK HERE

Transcript

Hello, everybody, and welcome to this podcast episode. Today, I'm excited to introduce you to my guest, Mary Ellen Kramp.

She is a physical therapist, a certified lymphedema specialist. She practices out in Washington, DC, and she is also an amazing educator.

So welcome to the podcast, Mary Ellen. Thanks for being here.

@1:24 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Thank you, Lynn.

@1:26 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

You know what? A student of mine was saying, have you met Mary Ellen Kramp? You guys teach so similarly.

And I was just like, great.

@1:35 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

And I think we emailed each other. And then we actually ran into each other at a course together. And that was so fun to finally go, oh my gosh, you're you.

And we needed to meet you. So absolutely loved meeting you in person at that course, Mary Ellen.

@1:50 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

And then we decided we needed to be on, I needed to have you on my podcast because I love

I love the topic that you're teaching, and that is that not many of us, especially as pelvic health therapists, this area that you're teaching on that we're going to be talking one area today, which is the lymphatics, is not really in our awareness, not on our radar.

So tell me, how did you get involved in this, and then what do we need to know about the lymphatic system as a pelvic health therapist?

@2:22 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

All righty. So many, many, many moons ago, I had decided when I was taking continuing ed classes, that I wanted to look at things systematically.

So I took a craniosacral class, I did a myofascial release class, I did a visceral class, and I'm like, okay, what other systems, lymphatic systems.

So I did a lymph drainage class, and then I ended up going through and getting the full lymphedema certification, which is.

much. minutes. minutes. Thank Oh, my gosh, I opened a can of worm when they were they were talking about, you know, what should we have the APTA tell therapists regarding lymphedema.

And my response was, refer them to a certified lymphedema therapist. And, ooh, yeah, there were a couple of people in that listserv who were teaching their own weekend courses, and were just like, Oh, no, we are qualified as PTs to treat that.

I'm like, you know, after I did my certification, I disagree. I disagree. Because, I mean, how many of you listening out there even understand what what the lymphatic system is, and how, how in depth you can like make it to 140 hours.

It's it's not like I, okay, yes, I was bored through some of it. But you know, for a lot of it, we did like a five day long intensive on learning how

And oh, my gosh, that I was never bored for a second during that five day long course where we were, I mean, serious eight hours a day, you know, learning all the different techniques and the different different types of equipment.

And gosh, it is it is really super complex. And you have the normal lymphatic system and then you have the abnormal lymphatic system.

And and was the abnormal lymphatic system, something that this person was born with or was the abnormal lymphatic system surgical?

And so, you know, working, you know, we'll we'll focus here on the normal lymphatic system for the most part.

But, yeah, it's very different when you when you start talking surgery and and anatomical deviations. So. All right.

@5:53 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

So tell us, what do we need to know about the lymph?

@5:56 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Okay, so let's talk about it in a nutshell. In a nutshell. All right, you have the arteries that are bringing the blood out to the cells.

We all know that. The veins are bringing the blood back. However, they're only bringing back about 90% of what those arteries brought out.

In your cells, you know, they get their nutrition, they're doing their job. The cells are leaking out fluid, they're leaking out waste products.

All the time. So they're doing their thing. And they're sending the waste any excess water out of the cell.

The lymphatic system is picking up that extra waste, it's picking up the extra fluid. So, you know, your body wants to maintain this nice, even blood pressure for the most part.

So if you have a lot sitting in between the cells that suddenly get back into the venous circulation, your blood pressure You

But the venous system is only picking up that 90%. So the lymphatic system is dealing with that other 10%.

And I mean, I did that in a nutshell. And I know I didn't get that much in PT school.

@9:10 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Yeah, that is true. That is true. Yes. kind of like the lymphatic system exists. Right.

@9:18 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

So the lymphatic is really in that interstitial's tissue, right?

@9:23 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Because it's not a vessel.

@9:25 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

of it.

@9:26 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

It's not a blood vessel. It's not an artery. And so it's in, but it's alongside of that. And then the lymph nodules help clean up what's in the lymph, right?

@9:37 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

There are lymph vessels. So in the interstitium, that's where it starts. There are lymphatic capillaries. So you have like these lymphatic junctions that as the swelling happens, the junctions open.

And then because of the osmotic pressure, it ends up going into the lymphatic system. And you have slightly larger and larger and larger lymphatic vessels as things travel along.

So the lymphatic vessels are present in every tissue of the body except within the eye itself and within the brain itself.

However, within the eye, you do have the aqueous and vitreous humor. So you kind of have a specialized lymphatic system there.

And then in the brain, you have the cerebrospinal fluid. So again, you pretty much have a specialized lymphatic fluid there.

But within the brain, they found that it rejoins like the cervical lymphatic circulation. And it's so it connects the cerebrospinal fluid.

Thank It connects in with the lymphatic circulation within the neck.

@11:00 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Wow.

@11:00 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

It's, it's, it's really interesting. Oh, the body's amazing.

@11:05 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

And that's why we love what we do because we're so intrigued by it. How does, so tell us about the lymphatic system in the pelvic space.

@11:15 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

So in the pelvic space, it's again, right next to everything. So, um, you know, anywhere you have arteries and veins, you have lymph.

So if you remember from PT school, navel, nerves, arteries, veins, lymph, those, those four travel together. So you have lymphatic vessels traveling right next to those, those veins and that, um, within the pelvis, you're going to have like the iliac arteries and veins coming in.

The internal iliac arteries feed the pelvic organs. oil means very And that, And they are going to have the iliac veins draining the internal pelvic organs and the lymphatic vessels also draining those side by side.

So if there's congestion in the lymphatic system, either from lymph nodes within the gut, because the entire gut has to drain to those lymph nodes.

Um, and there's a huge portion of the lymph nodes that are involved with digestion. So for those of us that do a lot of digestive stuff with our patients, the visceral snobs in the group, um, there is a lot of lymphatics that the body is dealing with in this, you know, like almost a specialized system.

They, the lymph within the abdomen is actually milky white it's, and it has a different term. It's called Kylie.

So, um, The Kylie is, or Kyle, depending on who you talk to, it's going to pronounce it. That is milky white within the gut because it has a lot more fat in it.

And throughout the rest, it's more just, it's more clearish. I mean, if you've ever worked in ICU and you've seen those patients who are just like really, really, really third spacing and super swollen, and then they start seeping, they're seeping lymph at that point.

So yeah. Yeah. So it's more clear in the extremities and it's more milky white in high fire fat content.

There is, I don't know how many people have favorite researchers, but I'm that nerdy that I have my favorite researchers.

So there's a woman, Laura Sant'Ambrosio, who she had presented at the NIH at a lymphatic conference that I had attended.

And she actually tested the composition of the lymph before a lymph node and after a lymph node and in different situations within the body when there is inflammation, when it was like within the gut, when it was so and she has like this basically proteome of what was what it consisted of pre and post lymph in pre and post node.

I'm like, Oh, my God, that is just so cool. How that lymph node changes the composition of the lymph before and after.

@14:34 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Wow, how cool. How cool. So what does this mean for like, how do you know when you're working with someone is like, Oh, I need to work on their lymph system?

@14:44 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

When they think of okay, we've all treated total knee patients. Yeah, think of your total knee patient. Yeah. You know, there's basic PT school, you know?

Right. Right. Right.

@14:55 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Yeah.

@14:56 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

And you remember that big, heavy, boggy knee and how that felt afterwards. Well, there's a lot of lymph just kind of sitting there.

So the body's trying to deal with that surgery and everything that was going on there. You've got a ton of inflammation going on.

There was stuff that was introduced there. The immune system's trying to deal with that. And so there's a lot that the lymphatic system needs to pick up.

So it's that thick, boggy kind of feeling that's there. You can have that same feeling within the gut, that abdomen that you're trying to get in and palpate stuff, but you're almost being pushed off because it's so kind of thick and boggy.

That's usually excess lymph within the belly. So draining the deep lymphatics all of sudden. And, you know, we talked about how we've talked in the past.

Thank you. About how quick changes can happen in the postpartum woman and how we love working with this population.

Well, the lymphatics are just as fast if not faster. It's so awesome to see how quickly when you've had congestion in nodes and just not draining well, how quickly that can go down.

So your patient that's just bloated. Yeah, they might have SIBO, but they also might just have some congestion in lymphatics.

So those that just are chronically bloated, those often have a lot of congestion in the lymph nodes that are deep in the abdomen.

Those that have just heavy periods, like really heavy periods, a lot of discomfort. They're just the uterus just feels too big.

It feels boggy, dense. That's often lymphatic. The bladder can feel that way as well. The colon can feel that way.

Like I said, generally within the abdomen, it can feel that way. Sometimes you need to drain the abdomen for that uterus to be able to drain, or for that bladder to be able to drain.

Sometimes the urge and stress incontinence can be because that uterus is so heavy, or because there's so much excess fluid, putting so much pressure on that bladder.

So because that bladder can't fill the way it needs to, and it's getting that signal that I'm full, like way too soon, you end up with those frequency patients or those patients that just have, you know, just too much there.

They can't compensate. And so they're leaking or being, you know, just going frequently or urgently.

@17:51 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

So what are, um, so the, the. The the bogginess is, is that our biggest signal? Um, like I, I, I, there's a client that I'm thinking about.

I'm like, Oh my gosh, her uterus felt huge. Um, and, and I was just doing some mobilization and, and, you know, um, doing what I do.

@18:15 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

And it felt like it like shrunk back down to a more normal size and, and over a couple of sessions, it's now got much better mobility, but how would I know that it's, it's not just the uterine restriction versus lymph as the issue with these patients, the, um, well, for me, you know, I just go in and I assess, I drain the deep lymphatics.

I see how that's going. I also have to, it's another episode, but, um, working with the, uh, venous system as well, because again, that's carrying 90%.

and, and, and, and So if I work with the venous system, if there's congestion in through there, I need to open that up.

And if that's open, I check the lymph nodes within the deep abdomen, and I check the lymph nodes or the lymph vessels and drain the uterus itself.

If it drains really well or I'm not finding any issues, there might be something like adenomyosis. Or, you know, what else might be going on that's causing, you know, does she have massive fibroids?

Does she, you know, what's going on that might be creating that, that, you know, big, heavy uterus?

@19:35 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Yeah.

@19:36 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

To me, that's something it's like, okay, can I drain this and make this feel better and she feels better?

Good. I don't need to refer her to OBGYN. Yeah. But if I can't get things mobile and soft and the way they should be feeling, you know, just with doing some visceral stuff and lymphatic work.

Then those are the ones that it's like, yeah, go back. You need some imaging done off my table.

@20:03 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

When you're doing the lymphatics, like abdomen obviously is done externally, but when you're talking about the pelvic space.

@20:10 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

No, I do that externally as well.

@20:13 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Okay. Okay. So it's all done externally. We don't need to do the lymph internally. Okay.

@20:20 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Okay.

@20:22 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Interesting. So what about pregnancy and postpartum? How does the lymph system get affected by that?

@20:28 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Well, you have this huge pregnant belly that can sometimes be, sometimes it's compressing the venous system and that's the problem.

You know, cause you have your patients that have those vulvar varicosities and, or just, you know, sometimes it's just the swollen and it may be just on one side.

So is there some compression on some lymphatic vessels? So there some compression? compression compression vessels? Is on the vein?

Is there compression on some of the lymph nodes? Did she maybe have like an ingrown hair that, you know, caused this one node that happens to be draining like in a similar area?

Is that congested that we can just drain and boom, the rest of the area then just softens and drains.

So it's, you know, there could be many different things. You also have the patients that tend to hold a lot of fluid in their legs.

Yeah, they can tend to be really swollen. Well, that can be, it can be lymphatic if they have just kind of a crappy venous circulation, crappy venous return.

Venous stasis can turn into lymphedema on the road because the lymphatic system, you know, it's only supposed to be dealing with 10%.

And when you're asking it to deal with 40, 50%, it's kind of like, You know, there's just too much.

So it just can't do all of that. And it's, yeah, it's, it's trying to do all of that. And it just can't keep up.

So wearing compression stockings in those cases, can be helpful. Getting, you know, educating the mom to, okay, you know, maybe it's time to not lay on your back or sit so much.

And, you know, walk a little bit more and, you know, get on all fours. And, you know, get the pressure off those posterior vessels.

So, you know, you're not always compressing the iliac vessels, or the inguinal vessels, or, you know, the femoral vessels, depending on how much the belly, baby belly is sitting on.

But, you know, opening things up, and getting pressure off so that vessels have more space, so it can drain the venous system.

So that's what we're working on with them. Because sometimes the swelling can be okay, they're not eating enough protein, or something else is going on.

I mean, if you talk to an acupuncturist, they have their whole list of things that they want to deal with, with somebody who's retaining fluid, you know, or is, you know, might it be preeclampsia.

So is that something that, you know, take their blood pressure, see if there's something else going on? And do you need to refer back to OB?

So there are like many different reasons why those legs could be swelling, you don't want to miss like, oh, well, it's lymphatics.

@23:34 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Now I just learned about lymphatics. And just look at it from that perspective, when it could be preeclampsia.

@23:39 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

And okay, oh, crap, her blood pressure is 160 over 95. Yeah, OB, I think we've got a problem. So yeah, so if the blood pressure is fine, and

You know, you're having her do her things with, you know, getting pressure off of the blood vessels, so she's on all fours, or just letting her belly hang off and on throughout the day to allow the posterior circulation to be happening, to allow the lymphatics to be draining better, getting her legs up in the evening.

If she's in a spot where she's sitting, can't she have her legs elevated to help support the return circulation, laying on the side versus on the back.

So there are like many things that we can suggest, increasing protein intake, that sort of thing. But, you know, if they're doing all of that, still having swelling, refer to acupuncture, because there are a lot of things that they can do as well, assuming that the blood pressure is under control.

And then you'll have to refer back to OB, but yeah, there are, there are many things there.

@24:49 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

So when the, you talked about those varicosities and varicosities on one.

@24:56 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Right.

@24:58 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

How do we differentiate that? You know, is it lymph? Is it the vessels? Is it pressure? It's probably all the above, but is there a way for us to determine what might be truly causing that varicosity?

@25:13 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Well, if there's a varicosity, there's a boatload of pressure on the venous system. And the venous system, if there's pressure on that, I mean, for those that do diagnostic ultrasound.

So if you do ultrasound in your office and you go to look at an artery in a vein, you can see the artery bouncing on the screen like this.

And the vein just goes, the vein compresses. And fun fact, the way if they're checking for a DVT in a leg, the way they know it's a DVT is that vein does not compress.

So the veins tend to So if there's compression on a vein that's in, it's staying compressed, but you have blood still trying to go through there.

First, that vein is going to expand. And when it can't expand anymore, it's then going to elongate. And that's how you end up with a varicosity.

And you have, you have valves that have failed at that point because they can't even get together. So they had been in this space like this and they had been touching like this, but now the walls are out here.

@26:30 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

And no matter what, they're not, they can't touch anymore.

@26:35 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

So that's an area that's failed. You can't magically make a varicosity back to where it was again. That, that vein has, that ship sailed.

That vein is now no longer, but that is venous compression that caused that. Where that compression happened, And it, it, it depends.

Is it happening?

@27:55 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

The system. And so, you know, we need to expand our horizons, everybody. We need to know how to make effective change in the organs, the vessels, the lymph, all of it together, because that's what's in the body.

That's what's between the pubic bone and the sacrum, front to back and everywhere in between. And so, you know, I love that you have chosen to do this.

how did, why did you create this course?

@28:25 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Like, how did you get into teaching and creating a course? I had actually asked, I took my courses through Bruno Chickley.

And one thing I love about him is he teaches how to feel the lymph in the body. So he was originally under the Upledger Institute umbrella of different practitioners.

And, you know, Upledger, Burrell, Chickley, we're all together at that point in time when I... I think... And Bruno had developed his courses and had a lymphedema certification at that point.

And I'm like, okay, you really need to develop a course for pelvic practitioners because we, as pelvic PTs, they don't want to go through lymph one, lymph two, lymph three, to even get to the point where you're teaching, where, you know, lymph within the pelvis.

So that's four three-day long courses that they have to go through to get to the pelvis where they're actually going to be treating.

And it's like, can we, you know, kind of pare this down and streamline this and do one? And he's like, well, do you think we can get, I want to say he wanted like minimum 30 people for a course.

I'm like, in back in 2005, when I was asking him, we had what, a hundred pelvic PTs. We'll see Bye.

Bye. There were not many of us back over 20 years ago. And so I decided, okay, well, you know, if he's not going to do it, I'll take it on.

And I'll do, I'll do a course teaching lymphatic. And I, he had taught one vascular class, but it was like for the face and the heart that he taught.

And I thought it was rather fascinating. And I'm like, okay, this is, this is practice changing. I love the vascular stuff.

And so I just took kind of what he taught and extrapolated it out, um, to the pelvis itself. So, um, so that's, that's how I ended up with the combined course, of course.

and yeah, that's awesome.

@30:44 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Well, um, okay. I don't, I, we need to wrap up quickly here, but not, um, we never really talked about postpartum.

So the lymph system in postpartum, we still have the varicosity. That might be an issue, but what else do we need to keep in mind in that postpartum period that might be lymph-related that we might not be aware of?

@31:04 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Our C-section patients.

@31:06 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Ah, yes.

@31:07 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

You have, you know, that C-section scar. Some people have a lot of swelling, especially around the mons. They aren't draining well into the inguinal ligaments, which are kind of where the hip fold is.

Um, they can be rather bloated through the abdomen itself and just things not draining well, just with all the compression that was there through the pregnancy and all the organs sitting up and back, uh, that can cause compression as well.

So they can have like this low level, um, bloat that just remains afterwards in the postpartum period. And the lower extremities too, sometimes, sometimes, especially if there's extra, um, extra tension.

Thank you. In the inguinal area or the iliac area, the legs can stay bloated for an extended period of time.

And some women, it's not that common, but some women need just extra help with draining those legs.

@32:08 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Okay. All right. Cool. Well, thank you so much, Mary Ellen. Anything else that you want to let us know about that we should be aware of for lymph?

And maybe share real quickly if you can, like, you can't teach us how to treat it in two seconds on a podcast, but can you give us a little bit of the concept of treatment of the lymph system without going into details?

Yeah.

@32:38 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

It's really, it's hands-on. A lot of the lymphatic courses teach that it's just this epifascial. So you're above the layer, the muscular fascial layer.

And I'm like, but you're missing out on like the deeper layers. So deep abdomen, the organs, the muscles, the, yeah, they're missing out on a lot of that by teaching just that really, because you'll hear about dry brushing, you'll hear about that type of thing.

And that's great if you've got some puffiness.

@33:12 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

I was going to say, you're seeing a lot of that on Instagram for those brushes that people are doing to brush the lymph from the face.

@33:20 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Yeah.

@33:22 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Sure, that helps.

@33:27 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

But yeah, it's, it's still, you know, it's following the flow of the lymphatics, and just working with the tissues, and the lymph nodes until they drain appropriately.

So yeah, I mean, you'll feel a difference, you'll feel like this through the tissue when it's like foggy. Yeah.

@33:50 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

it's just kind of goes, I love that sound. Do that again. that Okay. Okay. Okay. you. Guys, if you're listening to the podcast, you have to go to the YouTube channel and watch Mary Ellen do that on YouTube in video because it was quite entertaining.

@34:11 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Yeah, it's like this thickness that gradually becomes thinner and lighter and then just flows. So it's really cool. Yeah.

@34:22 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

I love it. Okay. That sounds like something I could get addicted to. Yeah.

@34:27 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

And it's like, if you like really quick changes, lymphatics are great.

@34:33 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, everybody, I don't know, a student of mine who has taken both my course and Mary Ellen courses have said that we're very, very similar.

So I encourage you to check out Mary Ellen's course and learn more about the lymph and the vessels and we'll get her back on here at some point and we'll talk about the arteries and the veins.

Yeah. So please. So hopefully this podcast has widened your horizons about the lymph and really looking at that as a potential system that we can make effective change in for our clients.

All right, cool. Mary Ellen, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for sharing your wonderful wisdom with us.

And we'll look forward to part two when we get into the arteries and the veins next time, the nestles next time.

All right. Thanks everybody for listening in and we will see you all in the next episode. Please share this with any colleagues that might be interested in understanding more about the body and the lymph system and know that we can make effective change with that.

And it's quick and fun too, right? Yeah.

@35:43 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Awesome. Great.

@35:45 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Thanks everybody. Take care. We'll see you all in the next episode. Bye-bye.

@35:48 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Bye.

@35:50 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

All right. Great. We are set there. Let's see.

@35:55 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Yeah, I'm more than game.

@35:58 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

We'll do another dual one when we do it. Okay, sure.

@36:03 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

And send me a bio with any links that you want. you too.

@36:08 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

You too as well. Also, oh, would you want to, do you have a list of students that you have?

Or how do you, or do you mainly teach through other people?

@36:22 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

No, I teach through my own. Yeah. So I do have a list of students that I've talked over the years.

Okay.

@36:31 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

I don't know if you're interested, but I can send you an email about I'm doing the birth healing summit, May 2nd and 3rd.

And it's all about heal the healer. And we're calling it the inner work to clinical mastery is the theme of this year's birth healing summit.

And if you wanted to be set up as an affiliate, if you share the information with your audience or your community.

Sure. Anybody buys That's it from me. We split the commission 50 50.

@36:58 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

All right. So do that. You want to do that?

@37:01 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Okay. Sure.

@37:01 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

I will.

@37:02 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

Well, then I will just, I won't send you that email. I'll just put your list, your name on the list as an affiliate.

And then Danielle will send information out to you when she gets that already kind of early March in the next week or two.

Okay. And then if you want to, however much you want to share it wide with your audience, and then whoever make sure you use the link that we give you, you know, about affiliate marketing.

Yeah.

@37:32 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Okay.

@37:33 - Lynn Schulte, PT (lynnschultept@gmail.com)

All right, cool. So use that link and then we'll keep track of it on our end. then after we're done, we'll, we'll send you a check.

@37:38 - Mary Ellen Kramp, DPT

Okay. Alrighty. Awesome. Thank you, my dear. This was fun. I appreciate it. All right. We'll be in touch. Okay.

Bye.