Mike Stankovich - Owner, Longfellow Bar and Mid-City Restaurant

Rodney is joined by Mike Stankovich, owner of Longfellow Bar and Mid-City Restaurant, to discuss his journey from aspiring park ranger to restaurant entrepreneur, and why his emphasis is always on the importance of community, inclusivity, and hospitality.

Learn more about Longfellow Bar:
https://www.longfellowbar.com

Learn more about Mid-City Restaurant:
https://www.midcitycinti.com

Transcript

Rodney  00:00

Hi. This is Rodney veal, and I'm the host of Rodney veal is inspired by Podcast. I'm super excited today because we have someone from Cincinnati, in the Cincinnati area who's doing amazing things, not just in the restaurant world, but in the community at large. And I'm super excited. Mike Stankovic is the owner of longfellows and mid city restaurant, and he's got an exciting story of a journey from Washington DC by way of Brooklyn to Cincinnati and our culinary arts scene here. And just super excited to talk to him about his journey and all things food and drink and hospitality and southwest Ohio. And I'm just, I love it when someone transplants themselves into Cincinnati and into Southwest Ohio and makes it happen. So Mike, welcome to the podcast. Hello. Thank you for having me. It's super, super cool. All right. Mike, so this is kind of that sort of that this is your life sort of scenario. And I just want to know, like, one of the things I read in an article was the fact that you had this dream of being a park ranger that got kind of shot down. So I kind of want you to tell the story of, like, your your early childhood ambition, which was really, really, really cool, sure, yeah, yeah. It's funny. You know, I

Mike Stankovich  01:23

grew up, you know, being outside, playing outside, as we said, when I'm 47 so of the age when you could still go outside all day and explore your neighborhood. And at the time, there was still some woods outside the suburbs of DC, and they're pretty much gone now, but was spend my time out there, and then weekends camping and fishing and that kind of thing. And so basically figured out, try to figure out a way as a young person, how to Monet, like, monetize, basically my hobby at the time. And that was the, I think the only way my young brain thought that was possible. Nowadays, there's a million ways, you know, with influencers and all these people that are out doing whatever they do, which is doing what, somehow making money, taking pictures of the Grand Canyon, you know. But I, I Yeah, so I had a early aspiration to do that. And unfortunately, a guidance counselor at my high school told me that it was probably a waste of time because they don't make very much money. So I was a little, I was a little, you know, let down by that concept, but, but to me, I thought it was great, because if you became a park ranger in the, you know, the national park system. You could, you could work in Georgetown, DC, or you could work in Yosemite, you know. And so to me, I saw it also kind of, I think, as a way out of my, you know, where I grew up, and I, you know, I guess I'm glad that didn't happen, but I think I'd still be happy if that had happened, okay, if someone

Rodney  03:01

hadn't put the well, yeah, I don't know. That's not gonna, that's not gonna pay the bills as much as you would think.

Mike Stankovich  03:10

So. I guess the ironic part of that is I ended up choosing a career path for a short time where you make no money, which is being a musician. And I know talk

Rodney  03:20

about that. I mean, yeah, but so good. I mean, it's no, it's like, that's, you know, you're talking to a visual artist and a dancer here. So basically, my parents were doubly disappointed. I just kept disappointments coming.

Mike Stankovich  03:38

I think, you know, so I think that says a little bit more about me just kind of wanting to travel or get out. You know, get out is a strong word. I it was fine, but see more of, see more of the planet with, see more, the more the planet with not having a ton of money at the time, you know, ah, so, I

Rodney  03:56

mean, back in the day, and it was a, I mean, it was like you saw it as you say, I love how you describe it as a hobby, but it was like something you really loved and enjoy. You enjoy the outdoors, and so, yeah, I know having someone tell you in a probably a very sterile cinder block, you know, counselors office like that may not be the option. They don't make any money, that's pretty much, I think, the story of just about everyone that I think we've ever interviewed on the podcast, oh, wow, yeah, it's always been that, that story of someone telling them you're not going to make your money at this. And so it's changed their the direction of their their careers. And so I'm kind of curious, because you talked about music. So was music kind of like the parallel track. You love nature, and you were doing music. So when did you start kicking into the music scene? Because that was, that's a part of this.

Mike Stankovich  04:46

So, you know, in music, my dad was a musician, and he dabbled in a band in the 60s. And so music was kind of always in my house, whether it be, you know, records or there's an old guitar line around. Found, I also think I was encouraged by my parents to do, like a bit, you know, the band in elementary school. And so I tried cello for a year, and then I got into percussion, and I played in the percussion realm through up to high school. And another bad thing about the same high school with that guidance counselor was if you wanted to, I guess we were short on band kids. I don't know the logic, but if you wanted to progress into Symphonic Band, they made you do. You had to do marching band as well. Oh, and nothing against marching band, but by the time I got into high school, I was playing in bands, and, you know, in my friend's house our basements, punk, punk esque bands and that kind of thing, rock and roll bands. And I didn't want to stay after school and miss playing in a band of my choosing in my friend's basement, so I had to quit band. And that was kind of a bummer as well. And so then that just pushed me more. I couldn't get the music fixed in school anymore. That pushed me more into let's focus on being a real band. And so I had the time now and the energy to we put it together in my high school band. We played around and spent 90% of our free time trying to get shows at local clubs. And at the time it was still you had to go give them a demo, oh yeah, to see if you were like good enough. And then we'd always open some bad show, but would have a great time doing it. And so that spiraled into just pushing that further. And once high school got out, we, you know, through a couple band changes and things, we were fortunate enough to become popular enough to where we could kind of tour the US, and we toured Europe a few times, and wow, kind of, I think, just fortunate in the sense of in the punk scene that we were in. It was a very tight knit scene. And so anywhere you'd go, you'd have a support, you know, to we'd play to three kids sometimes, but usually three to 500 people would show up. And it so it just that was a focus for, you know, a full probably six, seven years of my life. And you didn't really do it to make money. You just, like I said, You did it to travel and see other parts of the world, in America. And so I was successful at that part of it, at it being my job. I was not successful or make money. Well, yeah,

Rodney  07:38

as a as an income driver, my mom's because it's gonna drive your income. That's, that was her phrase a lot. That is a great phrase. I mean, she's, you know, good old Charlie. She's always omnipresent in my life. And what's really funny, interesting about, like, traveling United States. So I'm sure you played Ohio. You had to have played Ohio. We're a music state. We're kind of into music.

Mike Stankovich  08:02

We played Ohio. You know, it's funny, I've lived here nine years now, but in Cincinnati, we played the old suds, even loans, which is kind of a famous yeah place, and then top cats before it reopened. But we played Cleveland, I don't Oh, when we played a place on the edge of Pennsylvania, doesn't matter, but yeah, Ohio was, I always thought Ohio was a great place because, like, part of my rationale when I moved here, having toured through here, is, you know, you're four hours from Chicago, you're four hours from Detroit, two hours from Indianapolis, two hours from Columbus, two hours from Louisville. Like it's kind of a nice jumping off point to explore this part of the the of the country. I unfortunately, I feel like sometimes bands skip Cincinnati because they're doing Columbus, Louisville or Columbus, Indianapolis.

Rodney  08:56

Yeah, it should never, never, never fall asleep on Cincy in the music scene. I mean, that's just, yeah, that's, I'm with it. I'm with you on that one, absolutely. Because, you know, he up here in Dayton, it's Dayton's the same way. It's like, man, don't fall asleep on Dayton. They're, they're music people here, they are, yeah, the

Mike Stankovich  09:11

Dayton funk scene is absolutely, it's huge. And not enough people know that, you know,

Rodney  09:18

I know, I know. And that's that's changing. That is changing. It is because what's really, what's really cool about the state, like you said, that that distance is that's what all the bands did as well. And all the funk bands and on Dayton, they were all a part of the marching bands in the Dayton schools. So they would have Battle of the Bands. So I'm old enough to have, like, I think, I think I was like, my they're like, my dad's age, which is kind of this crazy thing, that my dad knew who they were. I was like, oh, that's different. That's real different players. Yeah, okay.

Mike Stankovich  09:56

I like it,

Rodney  09:56

yeah. You could, you can actually see them walking the street. Streets, by the way, they will just be randomly at coffee shops,

Mike Stankovich  10:03

and I love that.

Rodney  10:05

But one of the things that was really what's really cool is talk about this because you, you have landed in society, but traveling Europe and traveling the country, how did it lead to the thing that you said that bit against was like the the job, which is, which dates us, because you're 47 and I'm 58 it's like when I mentioned bit against to people like everybody glazes over with nostalgia. But that's the start of this kind of, this other pathway. Bill, yes.

Mike Stankovich  10:37

So as, as previously mentioned, not, you know, not making any money doing a band, I ended up, I've always advocated for restaurants, you know, just it was a way for me to make money while I was pursuing my artistic career, and The Schedule lent itself to my touring schedule. So at first it was the I landed in a bin against because I was working retail in a mall by my house at a store called natural wonders. I don't know if you remember that. Yeah, too, yeah. So we sold rain sticks and New Age CDs and things like that, but they were his his older brother was managing the binigans, and he was working there, and they needed help one night. And I feel like a lot of people end up in the restaurant industry this way, but I basically got, you know, recruited on the spot to help them in a tight fix that night, and then I remember I made twice the amount of money I would make doing retail, you know, at what whatever minimum wage was at the time. Well, yeah, it's, it's probably still the same.

Rodney  11:55

Feels that way.

Mike Stankovich  11:58

So I kind of, I respectfully quit the retail industry for good, and then ended up at Bennigan's and binigan's just worked well for us. It was, it was kind of the Wild West at the time. I have so many stories that are amazing and that are all borderline unbelievable, but it kind of sealed this thing for me, of, well, I can do this and make enough money to support, you know, my artistic career. And so it started that way. And then, you know, traveling Europe, I think, to your point, or a question was opened my eyes to, well, Ben again, been against and restaurants like it aren't really the mark of what good food and hospitality is. But, you know, growing up in a suburb of DC and kind of only being exposed to that aspect of it, you don't really realize there's this whole, you know, real culture out there in these neighborhood restaurants that feed people and take, you know, take care of people. And that might sound a little grandiose, but I believe that is what kind of led me into choosing this as my full time career, just seeing the way that, Oh, I gotta go to work. I'm on my way in. I know the person working there. They know what I want to eat. I grab it, I go, and then I come back there in the afternoon and unwind and relax, you know? And I like that aspect of wow, that style of dining, but so somewhere, because of the music thing, I moved to Boston, okay? And I lived in Boston for a while, and that was a big move for me. That was culture shock. So by the time I moved to Boston, I living in DC proper for a long time and

Rodney  13:49

still pursuing this music, and

Mike Stankovich  13:51

still still still doing them, yes, just playing music work. You know, I had to switch. I still wasn't at bin against but I worked in some other restaurants, but I still looked at it as just like a job. I job, and had a music opportunity, moved to Boston, culture shock, yeah, but landed on my feet. Just could easily get another restaurant job, which is another reason I advocate for this industry. You can kind of go anywhere on the planet, and find a job and even find a few friends. Right off the bat, you know, if you move somewhere in the dark, you can meet a couple people, you probably are like minded, and hang out with them. But yeah, so then somewhere in Boston, I figured out that I wanted to do this for a living. It clicked with me that I was good at it. I liked it. The Hours didn't bother me. And so I started pursuing some more serious management jobs to to learn more aspects of the business. And I. Truck, you know, just took a took a job that with a, some people like a privately owned, family owned bar and restaurant with a bowling alley in it. That was, well,

Rodney  15:15

I mean, like, I'm saying that, what? But I know some spots in Dayton, Ohio, like that, which is, you know, super. I was kind of cool. I mean, it's,

Mike Stankovich  15:22

it was really neat. And they, they, they took out three of the bowling lanes and put, they put a stage in there, and we, they, so it was music as well. So it kind of clicked all the boxes for me. And so I ran that bar for a few years, and then just fell in love with it. I it's hard to, you know, a lot of this job isn't for everyone, and for some reason, it clicked with me and my schedule and likes, and then music kind of faded out. You know, at least playing live faded out. I still play myself, but I don't play with a band or tour or anything. So, wow,

Rodney  15:59

like that. So, I mean that epiphany in Boston, I mean, that's an interesting moment because, I mean, because I talk to people about, like, because the show, we talk about our inspiration, well, it, it wasn't, it just felt, did it just feel right that this environment just like, You know what, I'm in this and it just feels like, for me, it felt right to be in a dance studio. I mean, I walked in the first day and I was like, This is, yeah, I need to be here. I need to be moving, you know, I

Mike Stankovich  16:30

think so. I think, like, I said that, you know, it took me a while to get to the point, but I think in the right circumstance, at the right time, in the right place, I was just like, Man, I love this. You know, it was a hectic it was just felt great that that specific bar, too, I should point out, was the was very community involved, and like, 1% of their proceeds, or 1% of their profits every year, where they would donate to a certain thing. And it was just very tied into the community of Jamaica Plain in Boston, where I lived. And you know, they had a they had a neighborhood Latin night on Saturday nights, they had drag shows, they had punk shows, they had all of these things. And I just kind of, that's more what clicked with me. I was like, this isn't just a bar where you come and get hammered, it's you can, you can do that, but you can also come and see a show, or, you know, we did a ton of fundraising, fundraisers and things like that. And so I think that is to your point about the dance to do that is where I was, like, all right, this, this feels good. This is what, this is what I kind of want to pursue, that more of that sort of space than just here is, here's some beers, you know,

Rodney  17:57

which is, like, says, Nothing wrong with that. But, I mean, oh yeah. I

Mike Stankovich  18:00

mean, I

Rodney  18:01

absolutely, but, but to your point of like, it's like that, this feels right. And so, how, I mean, how did it? How did where did Boston take you? I'm kind of curious about Jamaican planes. Was, it's a cool place, but

Mike Stankovich  18:15

so I the biggest, best thing out of that was my and it leads to me being in Cincinnati. Is my wife, left here, left Cincinnati to go to school in Boston, and we met there. And so that was 20 years ago, probably, so, yeah, 19 to 20 years ago, but we met, and like I said, I moved to Boston to do pursue a it was kind of my last stab at professional music. And as the soon as I moved there, the opportunity kind of dried up. And so I luckily had a good friend that lived in Boston as well. So I decided to stick it out and stay there, just because, even though moving from DC, a place like DC, to Boston, is complete culture shock, and so for the first year, I wasn't sure, I was pretty miserable. And then somewhere in there too, I started liking, I think probably because of this job, I started liking Boston and seeing that it wasn't what, what it was for real, and Jamaica Plain was kind of a small, nice community, you know, good food, less cranky neighbors and other parts, for the for the most part,

Rodney  19:42

for the most part, Oh, yeah.

Mike Stankovich  19:46

But after that, after that job, I got involved with a person that I kind of regard as my restaurant mentor. I mean, that's kind of a strong word for selling beer, but he. He we, I helped him reopen an old speakeasy in a part of Boston, and this was around the time the CO the cocktail Renaissance, as they call it. So like, 2007 2000 Okay, yeah. And so that kind of opened up a new door. And he worked with a publicist. And so then I was getting some, you know, interviews and magazine photo shoots and that kind of stuff, like, not about me, but about our cocktails and our food. And so that was starting to teach me that kind of aspect of the business, of, you know, how do you promote your business outside of just being a community hub or a neighborhood place, you know. And so, yeah, that was kind of fun. And with him, we I got, I was fortunate enough to open a few places with him, which then kind of taught me that aspect of the business, which is the hardest part of the business, oh, wow, opening it's, you know, opening up a place is it's very intense and very expensive and very kind of time consuming. So that just pushed me further into the the further down the path of I want to do this for myself someday, you know, and being fortunate enough to have that experience using other people's money and resources, but also feel, also feeling great, you know, very gracious, and being put in trust, etc. So, well, well, I

Rodney  21:32

mean, also too. I mean restaurant industry. Everybody hears about the startups are very difficult there. It's a, it's a, it is a, it is a, it's a gamble. I mean, because folks are very particular about the places they patronize, for for the quality of food and the service and drinks, and there's a lot of factors that go into it, location and, I mean, but it's, I could see that I could but, but I could honestly see that's kind of fun. I mean,

Mike Stankovich  22:01

oh, it's, it's, it's very fun. If you got to be that, like I said, You got to have that mindset, it's, you know, just a ton of hours, very stressful, but it's also very rewarding. And I think, you know, I think a problem in our industry is that a lot of people, and where I consider myself very lucky or fortunate was that I did have those opportunities to because those opportunities kept growing after i After those first couple and I don't know if I subconsciously put myself in the position to kind of work with people that were opening things, but it was a big, huge lesson in what, not Only what to do, but what not to do. And I think a lot of people that open restaurants, unfortunately, and the reason the failure rate is high is because it does look fun to open a restaurant and it doesn't, you know, you get to decorate it, and you get to do all these things, but they don't. A lot of people open restaurants that don't necessarily aren't fortunate enough to have the experience of the hard parts of it. You know, dealing with City Hall, dealing with in Cincinnati we were my first place was we have to deal with the historic board. And it's not like, it's not like those people are difficult to deal with, but it's, it's a dotted layer. I mean, it's a, yeah, it's, it's the, it's the non fun part of it, and right

Rodney  23:22

that nobody tells you about until you actually encounter it. Yeah, you

Mike Stankovich  23:26

know, like getting your licensing and all of that stuff that's not the fun stuff, and then just knowing kind of how to navigate that helps, or having had the experience of how to navigate that helped me immensely in opening and also just, you know, learning how to save some money here and there, and what I could do myself or have to pay a contractor to do, you know, so those I consider myself very lucky in the beginning, and then at some point, I Think I focused more on getting that experience, and it's helped me immensely along the way. And it it, I'm grateful for that, you know? And I would say anyone that is trying to do this, just try to get a job right when something's opening and you'll see a lot more than you'll see just kind of waiting tables there, bartending there, you know, like

Rodney  24:24

to figure out a way to behind the scenes. And so, yeah, so I, which I love. And so you met your wife in Boston, and now you're, you're, you're getting, gaining all this experience. And so Boston led to, where did it lead directly to Brooklyn, or did it lead to someplace else and then come to Brooklyn?

Mike Stankovich  24:43

It led to it led to there, but because of my wife, not because of me. She worked in the fashion business, and I should say she now, just real quick, she now owns a a non profit textile manufacturing. Company in Cincinnati that's called so Valley, that's doing very well. Just a little plug there, but

Rodney  25:05

go for it. Hey, that's awesome. I think it's pretty cool. Yeah,

Mike Stankovich  25:09

she they, they do a lot of sustainable, sustainability classes, dying classes, you know, it's, it's not just quilt making, it's full on textile production. And so it's really, it's really cool, amazing. That's amazing in Boston. She worked in fashion for Mark, a company called Marc Jacobs, which is a, you know, a fashion

Rodney  25:33

iconic brand

Mike Stankovich  25:34

by that yeah, thing, yeah,

Rodney  25:37

the words, when you when you say, Marc Jacobs, Mike, oh, yeah, I think, I think I own my partner owns some of his cologne. So,

Mike Stankovich  25:47

so they they offered her, they offered her a promotion to go work in the office, their office in Manhattan, as a assistant buyer, or a buyer or something. And so it was one of those kind of whirlwind deals where they were, they were like, here's the promotion. You have a week to decide, or you have to be there in a week if you want it, but we'll, we're paying for you to move there, kind of thing. And so it was a little tough for me, because I was trucking along in my own trajectory, yeah. But wanted to support her, obviously, and you don't get paid to move to New York very often. So I was like, All right, we got to do this

Rodney  26:29

absolutely.

Mike Stankovich  26:32

So that's how we ended up there. And, you know, I stayed behind for a month or so and tidied up my stuff, but in the long run, it was a great move for both of us. She excelled at her job, and then I was fortunate enough to in a strange turn of events, so I ended up at Roberta's pizza right when they were kind of blowing up. And if you haven't heard of Roberta's pizza, they're now kind of all over the place and huge, but at the at the time. So the funny story is the same person, the drummer in my band who got me my first job at Bennigan's back in the day, back back in 1995 or 94 was had moved when I moved to Boston, he had moved to New York, and he was the director of operations for the burgeoning Roberta's pizza restaurant. And so when I landed in New York, I was like, Hey, man. I just thought he was going to hook me up with a job till I got settled. But he was basically saying that Robert is had just got their first two star New York Times review, which is a big deal blowing up overnight. And so after working there for a little bit, they kind of created the cocktail, I don't know what they call it, the they already had a they had, like a wine steward, wine director, and they were looking for someone kind of to do their cocktail program. So I kind of came on as their beverage manager, I guess, okay. And that was a crazy opportunity, you know, just kind of showing up right in New York and then landing this job of this restaurant that was in the process of exploding overnight because of this times. Review, and, you know, again, working directly with the owners and seeing how they were navigating this overnight success and learning. And it just, it taught me a ton, and it was very stressful, but worth it. So I was very lucky there. But also, again, it's, you can go anywhere and get a job in a restaurant, so

Rodney  28:47

and it can lead to things you never know. I mean, well,

Mike Stankovich  28:49

it's, it's

Rodney  28:51

what I love about that is like, how you how you describe it, Mike, is that you, you're eager and it you're not, I guess I'm gonna, I because we've just met, and I just get the sense that you're just kind of like, okay, you know that you're, it's a challenge, okay, you know, but you're not gonna, it's, it doesn't seem to be a, well, most people would be a deterrent. It would be like a, you know, I

Mike Stankovich  29:18

don't like to sit still, so I think that helps me a lot. You know, I I need a job. Like, my family makes fun of me when we are on a trip or something, like I have to do something, like I'm cooking constantly, or I'm, you know, I don't, I can't relax, really, which is a bad thing, but I've accepted it so it's okay.

Rodney  29:43

No, I I can totally empathize with that. I mean, my my mom, it's like, Could you please stop working? I'm like, yeah, all I hear is, you're going here, you're going there, you're doing this, you're doing that. I said, Well, Mom, this is what I'm into. Like, she's just looking at. Just take a break. Yeah, I do. I do. I find those moments, which is usually in a restaurant, because that's those what you know, friends, you know, you meet friends and family, and yeah, I love, I believe in the conversations over bread and breaking bread. That's just my philosophy in life. It's like, you know, I love that, yeah. And so I think that's why I was so when Nadia, our newest producer, said he talked to talk to Mike. He's got these cool places in Scentsy, which I'm excited to go. I was supposed to go to this weekend. I was gonna go to longfellows this weekend, but we got, you know, we got the storm. Helene ruined my weekend. Had no power. So,

Mike Stankovich  30:41

oh, man. So, yeah, that that is not fun. Nothing also, I guess it could be worse, but still,

Rodney  30:49

absolutely but I just, you know, I will, I will make a trick. And so we'd love to have you. I'm looking forward to it. I really, genuinely believe in that. I really do. I as a matter of fact, I think if somebody's like a friend who's texted me this morning saying, you want to meet up for lunch to tomorrow, and I'm like, Yeah, sure, let's go Tony and Pete's, which is a killer sandwich shop in Dayton. By the way, it's like,

Mike Stankovich  31:13

I know, I know both of the owners are great. Do you

Rodney  31:16

really? I love them. They're pretty

Mike Stankovich  31:20

she, Kathleen. She, before they moved up, there she was, we were talking about maybe working together, but then she hit me up when they was like, No, we're going to open a sandwich going to a sandwich shop, going to a Dayton, open a sandwich shop. And they, I see their videos pop up on on Instagram, and they do. They do a very good job.

Rodney  31:43

Oh, they really do. I

Mike Stankovich  31:47

I need to eat there. I've not eaten there yet. You

Rodney  31:48

haven't eaten there. Oh, my God, we, if you're, if you come up, you know, knock on our door, we're literally, like, two blocks away, all right, so we'll, we'll gladly go over and go have a sandwich and chat. I mean, no, seriously. I mean, the whole station goes to Tony Pete, yes, it's like, it's, it's a thing. It's like, that is, like, our thing, best sandwich is a Dayton. That's what Mike, our producer, says, yeah, it is. I, it's only the I, I'm not a fan of bread because of many things and so that sandwich bread is kicking it for me, because, nice, nice, yeah, so it's I love that there's a taking connection. I love this. So, so this whole notion of COVID is whirlwind with Roberta's. I mean, it's blowing up. I mean, for the foodies who are listening to this will know. They know. They those in the know, but those who don't know, it's like, you know, that's, I think, this kind of notion in America at that time, was the shift towards better quality food, better quality dining experiences, not necessarily about, not about a hierarchy. It's about a feeling and a vibe, the sense that you're going on a place that you feel kind feel comfortable, right, and, and, and so what was it like to be in the in the midst of a storm of this kind of cultural shift and an organization that was really kind of like one of the in the forefront, in essence, I mean, yeah, it's

Mike Stankovich  33:18

interesting because, you know, I think with the advent of kind of food television, there was an early part there where there was this, you know, everybody, you know, this chef thing, and everyone wants to be a chef. And there's all these chefs, and, you know, Chef, for the first time in a long time chef driven restaurants were coming out. You know, you had, especially in New York, but other all over the world. But I think your point's a good one around that time, you know, you had, like the Bourdain kind of phenomenon happening in him. Show him trying to advocate for more of culture and travel in places to be and you know, it's not just him, it's other people, but it was interesting. What I liked about Roberta's was sometimes it was a negative, but for the most part, it was a positive, where we did have a chef, Chef Carlo and a few other chefs at the time, and they were great. But it wasn't it Roberta's. Was Roberta's. It wasn't chef. So and so it wasn't chef, this person, you know, there was, it was we had a rooftop garden, we had the bar, we had the wine, we had the food, we had the staff, we had parties that we threw, and all of those things kind of made the place what it was, and it was just again, just furthered the the thing of this, the the walls here the building, it's more important than who owns it or who. Runs it, and it's about what, how you feel when you go there. And so I think Robert is just kind of showed me what could happen, because they did a lot, you know, they threw these huge parties. They had a radio station in the in the restaurant, heritage Radio Network. Wow, that's so cool. And they did, they did these. They did, what were, you know, they did food podcasts and drink podcasts. And so it was just this kind of crazy thing that I think probably could have only worked at a moment in time or been successful at a moment in time, and then through a lot of their hard work, and a lot of their employees, hard work. It it paid off, and it blew up. And the bad news, I think, is my time ended there, because it kind of got too big for its britches, I guess a little bit, and it just kind of became, I don't know, I don't want a disparagement too much, like, it's still a great thing and a great place, and the people are still good. It just like, kind of money got in the way of a lot of stuff. You know, they, they found fame and fortune real, real fast. And I think that hurt, hurt the the business for a couple of years there, and then it kind of bounced back. They found their footing again.

Rodney  36:22

But because attention, because attention can, yeah, I mean, undo attention, like a lot of it, intensity, can alter and change, sure, yeah. I

Mike Stankovich  36:34

mean, it's, it was, it was, it's exactly that and that. Again, I'm just sitting there basically the whole time, taking notes, learning, you know, what's Oh yeah, what? What's going on, observing and but you know, it, it, it was a life lesson that I you couldn't have paid for, you know, I got so it was beneficial.

Ad  36:59

I'm Bonnie miles, membership coordinator of CET. Thank you for listening to Rodney. Feels inspired by this podcast is a production of CET, and think TV two local PBS stations as PBS stations, the work we do online, on air and in the community is supported by listeners like you. If you're enjoying the show and would like to support our work, please consider becoming a member at CET connect.org or thinktv.org Plus, when you sign up to donate at least $5 a month, you'll get access to special members only streaming videos on the PBS app through passport. Learn more at CET connect.org or think tv.org If you're enjoying this conversation, the art show, also hosted by Rodney veal, is available to stream anytime from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app.

Rodney  37:48

we talked about the kind of the glare and the spotlight and how in that kind of fishbowl, and in many ways, it is like people, when you become New York Times famous, that's a different beast. I'm refining. And some of the conversations I've had with people that it can, that glaze, that glare, can kind of distort and distract from the mission.

Mike Stankovich  38:13

That's a great way to put it, because, like I said, I didn't, I don't. I don't want to sound too harsh on it, because I don't know how many people could you're not, you're not really trained in life to handle that, you know, when all of a sudden fame, and, yeah, because, like, they, they, then they opened, you know, they got some Michelin stars, and they put out a cookbook, and they did all these things. And it's just, it's, it was interesting, but I I did like I did. So I ended up leaving there, and I was ready at the time to, you know, we were deciding to open, if I was going to open a place in New York, and I decided not to at the time. And do I tried my hand at some consultant work of helping people open places, and that was more to get experience honestly, okay, no, it was kind of a conscious thing, like I by that point, I knew I wanted to open a place, not sure where yet, but kind of was Taking notes and spending a lot of time in New York, just doing research at different restaurants and places and what I liked and what I didn't like. And I think the I think the spotlight aspect of Roberta's had an impact on me down the road, in terms of not trying to like, glorify what like that I don't like. It's hard to articulate. But I decided not to do the my own space right away, because I didn't feel ready, and I didn't I think I needed a little. Or just kind of almost what not to do, right? I felt, I felt comfortable, of what to do. But I think just navigating the waters, and, you know, New York City is such a huge, huge place, and it, it's, you know, there's 20,000 restaurants. And the the joke is, you know, 18,000 or 19,800 of them are bad.

Rodney  40:29

It was, wow, yeah,

Mike Stankovich  40:30

it was kind of like going around. So I decided to choose, spend some time kind of going around places like, seeing what not to do, like, oh, maybe this place just open. Let me go see what I think of it, you know, and it's all just my opinions. It's not like I'm a a pro, yet, it was just kind of explore, using New York to explore and learn, almost like, you know, going going to school or something. And so that I was fortunate to live there for however long we live there, to kind of have that, that place, to to learn and grow and see and soak in some knowledge. And again, that sounds kind of corny, but it's true,

Rodney  41:15

but it's not corny. No, it's absolutely not corny. It's like, it's like, you can't I always say, you know, it's one of the situations where it's, it's, you got to learn it from somewhere. It's either it's going to be this formalized process, there's going to be experience, right? I mean, I love wearing that teacher's hat. I'm like, Oh, let me because that's what I have to tell the kids. I would tell my students all the time, like, Oh, you got to pick one. Both are valid. But the experiences, you got to pay attention in the experience, as opposed to anything else. Yeah, see where you we see where you sit in it,

Mike Stankovich  41:52

by the way. But no, it's funny you say that, because in the chef biz, in the chef world, a lot of or even in the bar world in New York, it's was a lot of this. You have to have experience to get the job. But you can't get the job without experience, you know, like, so there's a ton of that, and so, which I was just thought was funny. So I, when I ended up after Roberta's, I ended up managing a couple of places that I got to through my consultant work, but one of them was called Alameda, which was a little cafe in Greenpoint, and they have now reopened. They're still there. They're now called El pinguino restaurant. But I kind of always, I would purposely New York was such a transient place, or, you know, new people coming in every day. I would always hire people that had just moved there, that had maybe bartended in, you know, a place like Dayton or Cincinnati, and they moved to New York. And if I was hiring, and I interviewed someone like that, I I would, if, you know, I wouldn't hire them just because of that, but if they fit the bill and everything, and it was always interesting to me, because it was exciting to see them kind of cut their teeth in the New York environment, you know. And the reason that's important, I say is because I looked at it as giving someone an opportunity, because a lot of other places wouldn't hire a bartender that didn't have, you know, two to three years of New York bartending experience, wow. And I always thought that was strange, because I'm like, you realize other cities aren't like, there's qualified people from other places. Like, it doesn't

Rodney  43:35

by FYI, you know. And like, to me,

Mike Stankovich  43:39

to me, like sometimes the jaded New York bartender wasn't the skill wise, it's what I wanted, but not personality wise. And I've always said, you can. You know you can. You can train someone to make a cocktail, but you can't train them to be nice or welcoming or warm. That's a trait that they you kind of either have or you don't, but it's not teachable, really. And so I was never really concerned as much with skill set as I was with personality or

Rodney  44:15

or that, or demeanor. I mean, that sort of demeanor is a great word, yeah? Well, no, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's something, it happens in the other art, art forms. I mean, it was so funny because someone said there was a, there was a program that I did, and I was hired as a dance captain, but they were auditioning dancers, and this girl is a half a beat behind everybody else, but the person in charge is like, I really like her because she's having a good time, even though she's half a beat behind Right. Like, I can, I could. I could rehearse her to get on the beat. Yeah, we can get you

Mike Stankovich  44:53

there, but, yeah, yeah, but you can't, yeah. We can't make you seem like you're genuinely having a good time. Like. Right and

Rodney  45:00

nice, and she's pleasant and lovely, and she turned out to be actually a really good friend after that, because getting to know her, because it was like, Yeah, I so I think it's one of the things that we think, and that's what I love about doing this podcast. And I'm trying to help people understand that the different worlds that people inhabit and what they're in their creativity and what they're passionate about, their life lessons for every place else. Like, you just don't you need to pay attention. Like, yeah, they

Mike Stankovich  45:27

all cross over, right? Like, I think, you know, it's, it's interesting. Like, what, I don't know, what in the dance world, what would you like, immediately draw from like, skill, like, other than the skill of dancing. Is it like the show must go on? Is it like movies or poetry? Is this a dumb question?

Rodney  45:55

I don't know. No, it's not. No, no. I mean, you draw from a lot of different things, but you also, you kind of do draw from your own personal experience, a little bit like your own personal but you also, it's like this, this interesting sort of tenacity, like, if we can't get the choreography down, you don't. No one needs to tell no one has to tell us that you're not getting it down. We know that we're not getting it down, so we're gonna stay in that room until we get it right down, gotcha. And then we're exhausted and tired, kind of cranky, you know, but we know we have to get it done. And it's like, so we'll sacrifice it. We'll be, you know, sweat out your clothes, you know, you're hungry, you're cramping up, and, you know, but you still got to keep let's turn to music going. Let's go. Let's do it again. Do it again, again. And we're all similar in that source. So it's kind of this weird. For a long time, I used to think it was masochistic.

Mike Stankovich  46:56

It probably borderline is, but that's okay. It's

Rodney  46:59

all good. It got me somewhere. I mean, yeah, it was, so I'm okay with that. So, I mean, that's the thing do you think about. And you talk about, like, the you can't teach someone to be nice and kind. And I loved it, because one of the things is, you said something is really interesting. In an article that I read, you said the bottom line, everyone is welcome. And that's something that you that's like a philosophy, like so you have a philosophy. So what is it? It's like you said, you said, I You gained the experience to learn not just about what to do, but really it was about what not to do. And what was it? The majority of it was like that. People didn't make the experience welcoming in their restaurants,

Mike Stankovich  47:40

I think a lot of times so everyone is welcome. Is, you know, is easier said than done, right? It's a little you can, you can build a place, and it's like you, similar to you said, it's gonna draw from my own personal experiences, and it's either going to resonate with some people or not. What I mean is everyone is welcome. Is like, I've seen so many restaurants come and go that either the staff alienates people for whatever reason, or they if they're super, you know, if they're super nice cocktail bars, they won't make a drink how you want it because they're too snobby to do that. Or, I've seen restaurants not substitute something for like a vegan guest, or, uh, an allergy. That's changing a little bit now. But you know, wow, 20 years ago, there was I. In fact, I had a friend in New York, and I, I, he was a chef. He had his own restaurant. And I there. It was in a period when chefs were like, no substitutions, no modifications. This is my dish and how I want it. And I hated that, because I'm like, I'm more like, you're coming to my house. I want to cook for you. You know, then this is my dish. You're gonna eat it. But I had this chef friend, and he said, as kind of a screw you to those other chefs on the bottom of his menu, he just wrote, substitutions are encouraged. I need to make sure my chefs can cook. And I love, I

Rodney  49:17

love that it was, I love it too. That's a great it was like

Mike Stankovich  49:22

a little joke, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't really telling you to do that, but it was the message was received, you know, and he, he had a little bit of notoriety at the time, and it was kind of a cool thing. So I think that mentality is changing, but everyone is welcome. Thing is, like, I can't, you know, that doesn't mean I can break out some food I don't have and cook it for you to make it feel well, absolutely, I'm gonna adapt. It's it's about your experience is about you being here, not us being here. And I think there's a lot of restaurants that exist that think that the experience is about the restaurant. I. Uh, actually, I can equate it to music. And,

Rodney  50:04

oh yeah,

Mike Stankovich  50:05

I have this, like, pretty decent analogy, I think, like, I, what I've always liked about the punk scene and the punk music we played is the audience was, uh, as much of the performance as the band was where, if you go to, you know, maybe, like, a different type of show, the audience is just kind of watching passively, passively, or even if they're singing along every lyric or something, the band is just up there doing what they're doing. And, you know, in a punk show, they're getting on the stage and stage, diving and singing along the singers coming out in the crowd. And so my analogies, I was like, I think in a restaurant or a bar, that the people in the bar or the restaurant should be part of what's going on as well, not just sitting there eating or dining, you know, and and so including them into the conversation, you know, like when you're behind the bar talking to your co worker about what you did last week. I'd rather share those experiences with the people sitting in the bar here what they did last week, than just us talking back there. You know, I and so that's always been important to me. I guess basically, is just like, including the the the clientele on the whole experience, you know. And you know that's hard when you're super busy and everything, but still, like at Longfellow, everybody that walks in where, hey, here's a menu, no matter how busy it is, just so they're not, like, confused as to where to go or where to sit or what to do. And I don't know, I just, I think that's more. What I mean is everyone is welcome. Is make it as welcoming to everyone that walks through your doors you can, you know, you can't do that for everybody, but

Rodney  51:52

Right? Because they're just, they're not open to it. So it's not like, it's not, it's not on you guys, it's not a long fellas, it's not on you. But, but I, but I love that as a philosophy and so and so. Now you're like, like, what got you to Cincinnati? I'm just kind of like New York. I mean, let's, let's be very clear. You know the phrases, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. You know, if we're going to use music as a kind of a guy post? Yeah,

Mike Stankovich  52:21

I that's a tricky question. We, Shay and I were doing well there and living there, and we started realizing every weekend we were going upstate, doing the outdoorsy thing, or something like that. And we're just realizing we wanted to kind of spend less and less time exploring the city on our days off, and then it was getting more expensive. I kind of got tired of this, and it could have been more me, but there was this sense of everybody felt like they were trying to outdo each other, rather than like, at least in my community, felt like everybody was trying to outdo each other, rather than kind of help each other or work together. There was this weird sense of like, self inflated behavior going on in my immediate industry and seen, and I kind of got tired of that, and it's probably exists everywhere. So that was maybe a little naive on my part. But, you know, those are just human beings doing their thing. But we decided that Cincinnati, since she grew up here, and I've been coming here on and off for 20 years that it might be worth doing. You know, you could buy a house here, start a business, have a kid. Will you say you could have a kid, buy a business, or start a business, or buy a house in New York, you could probably do one of those things. And in a place like Cincinnati, you could probably do all three of those things. And so we started looking and my immediate goal, by that time, I knew that I was going to open a place. And so prior to moving here, I was coming here and staying with my in laws and trying to meet people and make connections. And so the process had started of me opening what is now Longfellow, and it was difficult. So I had had all this experience. I mean,

Rodney  54:28

you know, you were talking about what, Joe you society, and you're like this conversation is, and it's absolutely true about the Midwest, it is like you could do all three, like there's I could dance here and live in a house and not live in a shoe box with 12 other people. I mean,

Mike Stankovich  54:43

it's, and there's some to be said to that, because, you know, the whole, I think, you know, and I was in New York, and I was like, Yeah, moving to Cincinnati, they're like, oh, man, you We thought you were like a lifer, you know? And I was like, Yeah, but can you, I just kind of got, I. I didn't want to have to scratch and claw, you know. And now I think, God, the I had a good deal at the time. I think the we rented like a two bedroom for 2200 bucks. And I think now that's that same apartments going for like 37 Whoa, which is crazy. That's That is insane, crazy to me. And then so, you know, the Midwest, Cincinnati in general, just because we had a family connection here, and the food scene here was good at the time. You know, it was, this is nine years ago, but it's so it's grown a lot, but it was, even at the time, it was still pretty good. And so, yeah, I was coming out here frequently to try to, you know, talk, to find a place to do it, find some investors. And I was saying I'd had the new lesson I learned was that was hard for me. It was the hardest thing was so I had all this restaurant experience and building it, all this stuff I've talked about it came time to ask people for money to, like, here's my pitch, you know, here's what I need, here's what I'm doing. Okay? And that was incredibly hard for me. I, you know, I grew up like, I'd say lower to lower middle class, so not like, poor or anything, but not from money. And was trying to do a, you know, Longfellow on a lower, lower end budget, and part of that using my know how, but still asking complete strangers to give you money for something that you believe in and you know that you're going to pull off. They have no idea, you know. And so I had, you know, a little package put together, and my, you know, my New York Times article and all this stuff, all this press that I'd gotten put together, and I'm showing it to them. And it was, I was lucky, right place, right time, you know, restaurants were doing pretty well. This was 2016 17 and Okay, Cincinnati, restaurants were doing well. And, like, I had one guy that had just someone connected me with, and he was like, because, you know, restaurants are notoriously a bad investment. And but he was like, well, the stock market's not doing too well, and it seems like restaurants in downtown Cincinnati are so he, he gave me money based on that alone, which I was like, All right, this is crazy. He didn't even really look at my stuff. I was just like, okay, okay. It was just that was a tough thing for me, that honestly, like getting getting into that ask, because getting in a room and being like, Can you, can I have your money to do something I want to do with it, and you might not get it back. And that was, but it was so because of I also created an investment plan for Longfellow where I didn't want to have any partners for better, for worse, and so the people investing in Longfellow, I was paying them back, just money at a higher rate. They had no kind of profit share, any control. You know, I'd worked at restaurants where some investor would come and be like, you have to put my grandmother's potato salad on the menu. You have to, I, I have enough say to where you do that. And so I specifically kind of engineered my startup plan and not have that, not have to deal with that. And it worked out. And luckily, long fall, we got open, we did it well, and I paid all my investors back in the second year. And Wow, that's impressive with their I mean, it was just, I think I am proud of that, but I think it was also such a goal of mine to a focus to like because it was so hard to ask for that money to show them that I would follow through. And not only that, you know, be be successful, and we also were just lucky, and it was great. And my, you know, the staff, my staff is, is responsible for 98% of that, you know, and it's not just me, it's, it's the whole deal. And we hit, we hit a right thing at a right time kind of deal, which is what everybody says, but I've maybe everyone just feels that way, but it felt that way to me, and so I was proud of that. We paid everybody back. And then Longfellow was established in Cincinnati. We were established in Cincinnati. It was, it was really fun the first couple years, you know, and we, we ended up, we live in North side, a neighborhood called north side, and that was fun. And I'm learning

Rodney  59:56

Cincinnati, by the way. I really am learning so. Bear Dayton, I mean, so it's like one of the things, yeah, so it feels good, it feels good, it feels right. And that's, and the, that's the vibe that Nadia taught we when Nadia, our producer, talked about, she said, the vibe matches exactly what he's talking about, and all the articles that we've read and and, you know, it's, rare to meet someone who embodies the vibe that they're putting into what it is they're doing, because a lot of times I, you know, not that I'm some creaky old man, but I am close. I am 60, and it is the joints are aching but, but you just, you know, sometimes it's, there's a disconnect, but there's doesn't seem to be a disconnect. And we've just met, so this is just me, you know, armchair psychiatrist or something. I don't know what that is, but, but it just I feel, but I just feel like you embody what I like. I look forward to my experience in Longfellow. I look forward to going to mid city so well,

Mike Stankovich  1:00:58

thank you. Well, yeah, I think maybe to my detriment, I don't know if I could do a restaurant or something, just to do it without, like, as a without it being a passion Pro or passion project, sounds too much. But without it being, without it meaning something to me, I don't think I could just open, like, here's an eatery, let's make some money. You know, I think that's why, like, you brought up Tony and Pete. I think that's why they're so good and successful. You know, knowing those two people, I know the amount of love and care and family ties they've put into that place, and I think it translates. And I think I think that I'm lucky to that's what I what I was saying in the beginning, is just falling into this, falling into this business for other reasons, and then realizing somewhere you're passionate about is about it is probably the, the part of it that you you can't plan, you know, and it's, it's helped me along the way. And I don't think I could ever just phone it in, having said that it's just selling beer. It's not like it's, you know, you know what I mean. I mean so much more. I don't want to get too, too inflated about it. We are still just, well, yeah, making drinks. We're making drinks cold and food hot. That's all it is at the end of the

Rodney  1:02:24

day, end of the day. But, but, but isn't that the case of anything that we that we do? Sure? Like, it's like, you could say the same thing about a dancer. You could say, you know, it's basically tights and tutus and she's a bird. I mean, it's like, yeah, but

Mike Stankovich  1:02:41

your art for your art firm can bring people to tears and emotions. And, you know, I that's all I was just trying to make.

Rodney  1:02:50

Oh no, but, but you don't think is, I'm gonna say this food and drink can bring us to joy,

Mike Stankovich  1:02:54

sure, and I like that.

Rodney  1:02:58

That's that is not that is, that's in short supply these days.

Mike Stankovich  1:03:03

I'll take that. I'll take that. I just think I was just saying like, I think there's in the restaurant world, I think the the ones that don't click with you maybe are just because it's, again, those people that opened it thinking it would be a fun thing, or it's profitable for some reason. And places like Longfellow and Tony and Pete and, you know, million others that there's some heart and soul behind it and some care. I mean, just the small just, and I, I'm proud of Longfellow, because you see all walks of life there, all creeds, all races, everything, you know, it's, it's in a place where we've worked hard to be a neighbor. You know, there's the gentrification discussion of OTR, and nowhere in there that I just want to show up and be this place. And so we, we just kept it low key for a long time, and it worked out in our favor. And the Longfellow has kind of three, three lives throughout its night. So on an average night, you kind of get this regulars after work crowd, and then from like later on in the evening you get kind of people checking out for the first time out of towners, or people waiting for their dinner reservations, and then it kind of switches back into this regular crowd. And then late night, we get a lot of the industry, the restaurant industry crowd of Cincinnati. And so I also kind of liked it over the night, it kind of is evolving. It's not just, you know, the same grumpy people in the corner of the bar judging everyone that walks in. And I think that's just back on the everybody's welcome thing. I think that's kind of speaks to that a little bit in a way that I'm proud of, and I think our staff is proud. We also do great food, not. To leave that out, but we, you know, we we don't have a full kitchen, but we do. We do what we can with what we have, and it's, usually it's pretty good, so it's for good. So

Rodney  1:05:09

I enjoyed this conversation. I know it's been an i full disclosure one. This is we've had some technical issues, and we stopped and started, but the conversation has been rich and good. And so the question I always ask, because it is about being inspired, is, what would you tell someone who wants to enter this industry, this, this, this business, what would you like a piece of advice would you give them that you didn't share earlier?

Mike Stankovich  1:05:38

Do you mean like owning the ownership aspect anything, yeah, or just like a young person getting into it?

Rodney  1:05:45

Well, I would say this, because I feel like a lot of young people are chomping at the bits to be the leaders of their own captains of their own destiny. Sure, sure. So was maybe the advice to them if they want to be the captains of their destiny. My

Mike Stankovich  1:06:01

advice is that the due to, I would say, you know, television, the popularity of, you know, Chef culture and restaurant culture on television now has really helped and hurt us. It leads you to think that it is this kind of glamorous and fun job, which it can be, but what the television shows don't show you a lot is how rewarding it is. And so if, if you are pursuing this career, just make sure that you're ready. It's not it's not all fun all the time, but if you realize that you like it, it is very rewarding, and it can lead you to places you never thought you'd go, like Cincinnati or New York City or, you know, owning your own business with people that care about you and and have your back, you Know. And I think, I think just bottom line is get into this business because you like it, not because it looks fun and glamorous. I don't know if that is helpful, but that is

Rodney  1:07:11

totally that is totally helpful. 

Mike Stankovich  1:07:14

T hat's probably every job on the planet, but, yeah, I but

Rodney  1:07:18

especially your job and my job and the thing, I mean, people talk about television being glamorous, and 

Mike Stankovich  1:07:23

it's work, right? 

Rodney  1:07:24

It's  hard, it's work. This is not a, I mean, I am not even 90 days into full time with the station, but with them for 10 years. Yes, online, as an on air host, yeah, I stumbled into this. This wasn't a, this wasn't me going, I want to do this? No, no, I was content to be a teacher and choreographer and just be an artist to make my stuff. And so it's changed my life. 

Mike Stankovich  1:07:48

But, well, you're good at it, so that's good.

Rodney  1:07:51

I appreciate that, man. I will take a compliment and heartbeat because I'm like, I am learning as a go and so, but I, what I love about that is, like, you know, you are just so authentically sincere about you and thoughtful about what you've said. And I've enjoyed this conversation,  me too. I I'm holding you to the Tony and Pete's invitation that we go to Tony and Pete to get us there,

Mike Stankovich  1:08:16

 I need to go 

Rodney  1:08:17

absolutely hit us up. It will be the best time 

Mike Stankovich  1:08:21

I will thank you. 

Rodney  1:08:22

You're very welcome. And everyone check out Longfellow and mid city. I mean, there's cool there's cool places in Cincinnati don't fall asleep on Southwest Ohio, and you make it a place not to fall asleep on. So thank you, Mike, for what you do.

Mike Stankovich  1:08:36

Thank you for having me.