Glass Blower Dustin Wagner

Rodney is joined by Dustin Wagner, a glass blower and owner of Nyminal Glass in Dayton, about his passion for glassmaking and its symbiotic relationship with teaching others.

Learn more about Nyminal Glass:
https://nyminalglass.com/

Transcript

Rodney  0:00  
Well, hello everyone. I'm Rodney veal, and I'm the host of Rodney veal is inspired by and today I'm sitting across from Dustin Wagner, who is, I'm going to say, is the founder of nominal glass. 

Dustin Wagner  0:13  
Yeah, that's correct. 

Rodney  0:14  
Okay, so I really got, I got the title, right and everything, who is a transplant to our region, and he is a glass maker, a kind glass kind of tells you it's a thing. I'm kind of a fan boy of glass making. 

Dustin Wagner  0:27  
Yeah, me too, actually, 

Rodney  0:29  
which is good, surprisingly, and, and it's just, it's a joy. And I've heard so many things about you from so many people, and they've just their faces light up. They smile when they say your game, so you should feel cool about your presence in our community. So, Dustin, welcome to the conversation. 

Dustin Wagner  0:46  
Thanks. I'm happy to be here.  You know, putting smiles on people's faces, that's like, the whole goal behind, like, teaching classes and having people in the shop is just to, like, make somebody else's life just a little bit brighter, but it also brightens mine too. You know that that's the goal. There's a symbiotic relationship between people that, you know, sometimes I think, gets lost in translation in time. So, yeah, just make somebody smile. 

Rodney  1:07  
Yeah, it's a win win scenario, yeah, yeah. Kind of like, it's a win win. It's like, you're happy, they're happy. Yeah, beautiful objects are made. And just, you know, things that people enjoy. 

Dustin Wagner  1:17  
Yes, you can make people happy. So I do a little dumpster diving and stuff like that in some random spots. So I'm looking for metal and things, yeah? So I'm in this, like, kind of weird spot, this area, and a few guys come walking by, and I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna get jumped here. But the thing I did, I just smiled at them, and then they smiled back, and I was like, oh, okay, that saved me from maybe some trouble, I don't know. 

Rodney  1:38  
Well, I'm hoping to save Yeah. So why are your dumps for metal when it comes to like, you're making glass? I mean, I'm kind of curious. 

Dustin Wagner  1:44  
Yeah, the process, well, some of it is, like, I'm looking for material to either rebuild machines later or build sculptures, things like that. So actually, just down the street from the studio, there's the pipe fitters union, and they're always putting out all these goodies, and I just collect it all. So I'm actually planning on building, like, a big metal sculpture of some kind, just to put, like, next to the building, or I'd like to put it on top of the building if I could, but we might get in trouble. 

Rodney  2:10  
Yeah? So,

yeah, do it all so, okay, so we got to go back. We're gonna go back. 

Dustin Wagner  2:16  
Yeah, we won't talk about glass, right? 

Rodney  2:17  
Yeah, yeah. But also it's gonna be like, Let's go talk about you, yeah, Hot Tub Time Machine. Here we're gonna go back in time, 

Dustin Wagner  2:23  
which like Hot Tub Time Machine two. That was the best as the funniest movie ever, dude. Honestly, it is so ridiculous.

Rodney  2:30  
That is, yes, it is the most ridiculous one of the two, yeah, but it's hilarious, yeah, but funny. 

Dustin Wagner  2:36  
It's like every moment of that movie is hysterical, yeah? Like, it's beyond anyways, continue. 

Rodney  2:42  
It's all good. I love these segways. Um, so like, the journey, let's talk a bout the fact, yeah, did you ever like, was was the glass make? Like, glass blowing, glass making? Was that the end goal? Yeah, can you say because sometimes people kind of get to it because they were doing other things.

Dustin Wagner  3:00  
 Yeah. Well, I'm pretty lucky, you know, I had parents that, like, drove us on vacation every summer. And so we would either go to Kansas to visit family there, or we would go a little bit further to Colorado, if it was like, you know, we had the time, you know. So in Colorado, there was actually a glass bowling studio in the town of Estes Park. And so, you know, the first time I went there was probably in third grade, and that's when I saw glass Bowling for the glass blowing for the first time. And my brother and I were so enamored, like, my parents had to pull us, like, just drag us out of this Glass Blowing Studio, just so we can go on a hike and actually enjoy why we're there, you know what I mean? And so, you know, literally, I wanted to be a glass board from that moment on. And my brother was six years older than me, so he went to college, learned how to do it there that he started teaching me when I was teaching me when I was a senior in high school. So I've been a glass floor for 21 years. Yeah, I know it's crazy, but, you know, the the sad part is, it made school really hard because I just didn't want, like, I didn't want to do anything, 

Rodney  3:54  
I didn't want to do anything else. 

Dustin Wagner  3:55  
Yeah, I had like, three, three art classes, and it was, it was fun. 

Rodney  4:00  
Yeah, that's a huge you were like, you were bitten. I mean, oh yeah. Okay, so what is it about it, like, when you saw it like that just made you go, Oh man, this is... 

Dustin Wagner  4:09  
well, it's really physical and it's creative at the same time, which I've always have been, I didn't, you know, in high school, I kind of didn't like, quite fit in with, like, the athletic crowd, even though it's very athletic. I went to state and wrestling and soccer, but I was very shy and drawing and painting and just tinkering and doing things by myself all the time. So, so really, the physicality and the creativity and behind glasses, that's, you know, it was truly made for me. You know what I mean now, saying that I'm not the best glass blower in the world, maybe that's being humble. I don't know. You know, it's, I think you'd be very I like it, you know, I think, you know, as long as I can stay in shape, you know, some of my better years are ahead of me. You know, I feel like all the hard work's done took me 20 years to get to this point, and I hopefully have another good 20. You know, that's what I'm banking on. So if not more than that, I will, 

Rodney  4:58  
I'm hoping more than, yeah. You got more than a good time. So, so you talk about the fact that your brother went to school for it, but so what did in school was kind of hard to focus in on. If you're just loving glass making. I pretty were you doodling? I mean, because I'm a visual artist, that's all I did. Yeah? 

Dustin Wagner  5:16  
My notebooks, yeah, I was drawing. Non stop. Non stop, yeah, not paying attention in class, you know, but school was still fun for the most part. You know, wasn't, like, truly horrible, but you know, I just knew, like, science class, I was going over my head. French class, what was going over my head? You know, stuff like that,

Rodney  5:35  
but you do but yeah, something about art and art making? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So when you graduate from high school. What? How I heard a little birdie? And this is Anne. I'm giving a shout out to Ann Rotalante, who is a producer here. She She is like the queen of like, knowing people's stories in this town, interesting. And she said... 

Dustin Wagner  5:56  
Am I Jimmy Kimmel right now?

Rodney  5:59  
I ask, I do ask around. Yeah, I'm not one of these people going, you see, I have no papers in front of me. Yeah, folks, I just do this. 

Dustin Wagner  6:07  
I see on your palm, though, you got a couple notes written there, remember to say his name? 

Rodney  6:11  
Yeah, exactly. But it's she said that you traveled and you, you kind of saw the whole country like yeah, like a journey. So I've got to curious, how much of this country have you seen?

Dustin Wagner  6:26  
I mean, I've been, you know, from here to California and back several times New York. As far as selling my work goes, you know, I've been all over the Midwest, and I go to Florida too. When I go down there, I'll be there for a month. And it's not a beautiful thing going down there, really, because I'm just staying in a trailer park five, five miles from the ocean. So it's not like I'm sitting at this awesome hotel or anything. I'm strictly there to, you know, try and make money and find those people that love glass too, you know.

Rodney  6:54  
Yeah, people love glass. I mean, it is really, you know. 

Dustin Wagner  6:57  
But I will talk about one interesting job that I had. It was like, my first true job as a glass blower, and I got hired at Cedar Point to do glassblowing demonstrations. Yeah. And the best part about it, and, you know, walking into it, we didn't really know much about it, as far as, like, you know, what our job entailed, or whatever, but we come to find out, we had these, like, blue tags that set our name on it. And then some people had green tags. Some people had red, but blue meant we were managers. And so we didn't have anybody, like, we didn't have a boss, and it was just like me and my buddy, who are 22 years old, just like, Okay, we're gonna do whatever we want. And so we were supposed to, like, wear a headset and talk to the crowd. And we didn't do any of that. We'd, like, barely could even, like, talk to people, because we were both, like, kind of shy. And actually, sometimes I dude, I would get so nervous I would throw up, you know, just from nerves. You know what I mean, right? You know, saying that, 

Rodney  6:57  
yeah, I'm saying that because yeah, people don't realize, yeah. It takes a lot of energy to talk to people, 

Dustin Wagner  7:09  
yeah, but we did a lot of nefarious things. I don't know if I should even talk about it. I do. I did anything that will cause you to be like, Well, I don't, I don't know. I mean, it's been almost 20 years ago, yeah, but, you know, invitation, this is, yeah, but, you know, just the simple gist of things. Like, you know, we were bartering with a lot of, like, food vendors and stuff. So we would make glass and trade for, like, turkey legs and and honestly, I had so many turkey legs that two summers that I did it. I dude, I never want to eat turkey legs again. Oh, yeah, we're just eating them, like, every day. I mean, they're huge. 

Rodney  8:19  
I know they're, yeah, the big chickens are big birds. Yeah, like, they're like this, yeah, exactly, like something on the Flintstones. Yeah, I know, totally right, but yeah, so you were bartering for...okay, I love it. Yes, that is the coolest thing. 

Dustin Wagner  8:36  
Yeah, I've done that everywhere I've been, you know, I used to teach at the summer camp, teaching kids how to blow glass. And, you know, I had this whole side hustle there going on. You have to to make a living as an artist, like, you got to find any route. And that's kind of why I brought up, like, scrap metal stuff. It's like, I love doing. It's just free money laying around, you know, and it's so cool to, like, tinker with things. Like, I'll get these machines and I have no idea what it does, and I take the whole thing apart, and there's all these amazing pieces of copper and brass aluminum, and it's just kind of cool to kind of, kind of, like, deconstruct things, you know what? I mean?

Rodney  9:09  
 Oh, I know. I totally get it, yeah. I mean, I'm totally you're talking to, okay? See, I a lot of people who listen to podcasts, and people who know me, I'm an artist. I was, I was, I started off as an artist who shifted into ballet, who then became... 

Dustin Wagner  9:23  
Ballet. Interesting. 

Rodney  9:24  
Yeah, so I get it. It's not a linear journey.

Dustin Wagner  9:29  
 I'm gonna need to see a pirouette. 

Rodney  9:31  
That'll I will show you later out in the hallway. Okay? I will show...

Dustin Wagner  9:37  
Is a pirouette? Is that pirouette? 

Rodney  9:38  
Yes. 

Dustin Wagner  9:39  
Okay, awesome. 

Rodney  9:39  
I don't think you can do a turn. Yeah, carpets kind of probably make me stick but, but it's this notion that, as a visual artist, I believe in this whole notion of, like, finding found materials to make my work. Yeah? And it's like, for me, it's paper. So I collage paper. And I'm like, I am just, I literally just walk around looking for paper. Yeah, okay, this will work. Yeah.

Dustin Wagner  9:59  
That cool, yeah, best, 

Rodney  9:59  
like that is the coolest thing. 

Yeah, feels in my world, you know, my music's playing. I'm like, oh, there's a big old bit of newspapers, magazines, grab them. Uh huh. 

Dustin Wagner  10:13  
So, yeah, actually, I have one distinct memory of finding, like, a clipping of a magazine in Columbus years ago. And I was kind of having, like, one of those sort of, like, sad days, I guess, just walking around, uh, town, and there's this piece of papers laying there, white side up, and then I flip it over this picture of this lady smiling. And I was like, Wow, that's so neat, you know. So I ended up putting that inside my banjo, because my banjo has a clear, like, top to it, so you could, like, see her face in there while it's playing.

Rodney  10:40  
So, yeah, okay, now, now, but as goes, Yeah, play the banjo. You play the banjo. Okay, multi talented, okay, 

Dustin Wagner  10:48  
I would say bored. You know, it doesn't work. Kind of always drive creativity. Oh yeah, yeah, you have to, yeah. I think artists need a lot of downtime. You know, even if that time is just like, just sleeping. You know, you need sleep to turn on the gears. You know what I mean. So for years, my my whole goal was, in the day was just to take a nap at some point. You know what I mean. But these days, that's very rare. 

Rodney  11:14  
I could only imagine, yeah, so you're like, so you're, you're traveling all over the country and and I'm Ann's gonna love me for this, because I remembered it. She said, You guess you told a story about, it's involving a tent and a hurricane. 

Dustin Wagner  11:30  
Oh, yeah, yeah. She was right, yeah, not necessarily a hurricane, but a tornado. 

Rodney  11:37  
Well, yeah, okay, so explain that. 

Dustin Wagner  11:39  
I mean, yes, I was doing a show up in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which is like one of the biggest shows in the country. There's like almost 1000 artists that go there. Yeah, it's really crazy. But they ended up evacuating the town because this storm was coming through. And you know, there was tornado alerts all over the place, sirens going off. And, you know, I see all the other artists packing up. Of course, I'm packing up. I usually pack up before they do, because I have glass. So I just have to make sure that it's safe, you know. And so everybody's leaving, and I'm like, I just don't I, I want to protect my stuff, you know. And so I end up, what I did was inside my my booth, because I have a big like metal frame tent waste about 200 pounds. Well, I took an extension cord, I tied it from one corner on the inside to the other corner, and then I sat in the middle like a hammock. So my tent weighs about 200 pounds. I already have 200 pounds of weights on each corner, and then plus me. And so I was like, literally just gonna, if a tornado came through, I was going with it. I was gonna protect my work. And, yeah, I know it was crazy. 

Rodney  12:37  
Oh, my god, yeah. Oh, wait, the lens that we go through this art maker, yeah? Oh, I know, you know that's, that's a real Yeah. But anybody, like, did anybody do people do that thing after it was over? Go, you're so brave 

Dustin Wagner  12:51  
well, nobody was around. Yeah, left. It was after the storm was over. It actually got sunny pretty quick. And I'm just standing there like, whoa. There's nobody anywhere.

Rodney  13:02  
That's unusual for Ann Arbor, yeah, if you haven't been to Ann Arbor, yeah. 

Dustin Wagner  13:08  
That shows real intense, 

Rodney  13:10  
because I went to school in Michigan, yeah, Ypsilanti, which is downstream, so yeah. And I know it's like Ann Arbor people, if they scatter that, yeah, they are never coming back? Yeah. 

Dustin Wagner  13:21  
And then one year at Ann Arbor, it's really tough to find an Airbnb there, because 1000 artists come in, and then you also have about 250,000 patrons that are also looking to stay somewhere. So I ended up booking the worst Airbnb possible. I typically pick the cheapest ones anyways, because I'm there to make money, not spend money, like, when I go to shows, I don't, I don't drink, I barely eat. I just, you know, trying to make the money so I can come home and, you know, whatever. And, man, I stayed at this place. It was, I was on the third story of this, like, old Victorian house, and I remember that night, I was like, I forgot my phone charger. So then I, like, went downstairs, none of the light switches worked, and then I'm walking through the downstairs to go out the back door, and there's all these, like, like, people sitting there, like on these couches. And I walk through and I'm like, Oh my God. I just like, couldn't the I don't know what they were doing. I mean, drugs, but, you know, it was, like, one of the scariest things that I've been through, and I've been through a few but, wow, yeah, I know the things we do, I mean, but the best part is, I was walking distance from the show, you know, so for $20 a night and to be scared crapless For about for five days straight. Yeah, yeah. 

Rodney  13:25  
Okay, okay. So the trade off, yeah. 

Dustin Wagner  14:25  
And then I had to use the bathroom of the lady who booked it out upstairs, and she ended up leaving for the weekend. Then tell me she locked her room and I couldn't get into her use the bathroom, yeah. And it was crazy. And then one night I had to, like, go, really bad, you know. And you I don't even know, should I even be telling this? But, like, I had to go. I mean, I had to go.

Rodney  15:00  
Right, when you gotta go, you gotta go. So you gotta go. 

Dustin Wagner  15:03  
You took a lot of contemplation of what to do. So like, you know, I end up going downstairs through the darkness. This is probably night two, I believe, and and there I am driving around Ann Arbor trying to find a bathroom. 711 I go in there. The bathrooms not working. I end up driving around the Wolverine stadium looking for something, nothing. And finally, I found a place that said, you know, or the bathroom worked, but don't flush any toilet paper. That was like, what? Or, yeah, toilet paper. And I was like, what? You can't use it, the toilet paper, like, and I was like, screw, I got to anyways. So, yeah, did it okay? Yeah? Great weekend. Great weekend. Yeah, so many stories. 

Rodney  15:04  
Oh, my God. So so all like, do you so travel in the country, having these, these adventures. What made you decide to settle down in Dayton? Drew you to the Gem City, because I always call it that.

Dustin Wagner  15:53  
well, I was living in Columbus, and I was doing a lot of music and stuff there. And I was also working for several glass blowers, one in Delaware, one in Springfield, and then also Franklin Park Conservatory in Columbus, doing demos and things like that, and occasionally going out to Newark and stuff like that. But I was being stretched so thin that some of my days were like, leave at 7am get home at about 10pm and I would do that a couple times a week, you know, if not more. But, you know, it's blowing glass six days a week. At that point, it was just a struggle. Happened to just go everywhere. My cars were getting destroyed because Columbus streets are just always under Yeah, they're under construction non stop. You know, potholes everywhere. So I was like, Okay, I've got to slow down a little bit, because I don't seem to be excelling in the right direction that I want with glass and music, although, man, I was really getting close to something quite special with playing the banjo. In particular. I did play the guitar and in bands and stuff like that. But, you know, I was at that point where I was like, Oh, I have the sound that people are like, Oh, you sound like you're from, like, Denver, or something like, just because I wrote, like this, these really dark kind of folky,

I don't know tunes, I guess, if you will, store very story driven, yeah, stuff like that. But anyhow, you know, I felt like my path with music, you know, I can still always do that. You know, that's still like a fun thing to do is write music. It's relaxing, helps you kind of explore your own ideas, you know, even if they're just kind of sort of made up in a way, you know, it's all comes from your subconscious. So you know, in some capacity, you'll be able to relate to it, no matter what the subject matter is that you're writing about. But anyhow, so I decided to just lean more into music, or into glass rather. And so I moved out to Springfield to work for a glass blower there. And to be honest, living in a small town that actually changed my whole dynamic, you know, living a little bit more affordably, not having to, you know, take two hours to get to the grocery store and back, everything is a mile away, and it was really awesome. 

Rodney  17:48  
So, so that kind of Yeah, is it? Is it not necessarily slowing down? Because that's not what you I don't think that's what you're about. It's just, it's calmer. I mean, yeah, there's, yeah, there's a calmness.

Dustin Wagner  17:59  
 And when I first moved to Springfield, I actually didn't do a single thing for an entire year. I just went to work, came home, went to work, came home, and I did that for one year because I was so tired and burnt out on just being in Columbus. There's so much to do. You got to be a person. If you want to be seen or heard, you've got to really stick out, you know. So it takes work to do that, that kind of stuff, you know. And I was a little bit tired of that, so I didn't do anything for a year, and then one day I just one day, I just felt like I snapped out of this coma. And I was like, I've never been to Dayton. I want to wonder what that place is all about. So I drove to Dayton, right? So I'm here just meandering, actually, downtown in this area. Just want to see what the downtown looks like. I was like, looks pretty good. And then I came across a second street market, and I was like, wow, that's that's really neat. I didn't think they might have something so unique like that. So I end up going in there and just walking, you know, that, the whole length of it, and lo and behold, I see a glass blower friend that I know. So after a year of basically just like not doing anything, I run into a glass blower that I know in Second Street Market, and I'm talking to him, and I'm like, Jim, like, do we got to do a studio here? Like, this is, this is the place, and that's where, yeah, Jim's, yeah, okay, yeah. And, and so, yeah, that's kind of what started the fascination. And it actually took about three and a half years or so to find a building. And, you know, occasionally I would come to Dayton, and I would just park my van, and I would just walk everywhere, you know, 

Rodney  18:44  
and just kind of, yeah, explore the land. Yeah, I'm kind of glad we had a space for you. 

Dustin Wagner  19:27  
I mean, we got so lucky, man. I mean, our building, what was really cheap, and it was cheap for a reason, because it was falling apart. I mean, there was one point, like, a six foot hole in the ceiling that I had to fix. And, you know, the building's 237, feet long, and it was leaking from one side all the way to the other side, you know. So we had to fix all those leaks and everything. And you know, that was just like step one to, like, just build, yeah, just to dry it up a little bit, you know what I mean. And the guy that previously owned it, he only used half the building. The buildings about 11,000 square feet, and so he only utilized half. So the other half, he just let just basically rot, you know.

So, yeah, so we got a good deal, and I have run across a couple people that actually walked it, and they were like, Oh, this is too much work for us. But when my partner, Beth Hart, and I saw it, we were like, Yeah, this is the spot, like, we can make this a dream. You know what? I mean, yeah, no, no. 

Rodney  20:19  
And it's that's amazing, that it was get a hole in the ceiling, which I'm not surprised by. People just things fall apart. How much space? Because I don't know, people really understand, because I've been to, I haven't been to your space yet, dying to go. So I'm coming. Yeah, don't worry. In good time. You know, I'm coming. It takes up a lot. It takes space. It takes a lot to create, but I can only imagine what it would take from a glass point perspective. Yeah, the space needs so talk to me about, like, what that is, because our audience has no idea. You have no idea, you know, they see the object, but they don't realize how much goes into the 

Dustin Wagner  21:03  
Yeah, well, studios, you know, they can be in various sizes. They can be big and small. It depends on what you want to make. So for mine, you know, I really just wanted every kind of machine so I can make any size of piece possible, whether it's small or big. So I have a machine that will allow me to make a small stuff, like cups and ornaments and things like that. But I also have a machine that I could it's big enough to put a body in, and, you know, you know, yeah, you made somebody, you know, I'm just kidding, but, yeah, I've got it, like, probably 1011, or 12 machines, you know. So, you know, glassblowing is unlike any other arts. It's, it's like a manufacturing facility. You know, there's a lot of expensive equipment in there. If you want to rehab one of the machines, you can't just go to Lowe's and find the right material to use it. You're buying it from a company that specializes in that high temperature material.

So yeah, everything's Yeah. Blowing glass is no joke. Sometimes I question myself like, you know, but, 

Rodney  21:59  
but then you see the glass, 

Dustin Wagner  22:00  
yeah, oh yeah, totally Yeah. 

Rodney  22:03  
I say the same thing about dance. I was like, and then I Yeah, then you get to the Okay, the performance was worth it. 

Dustin Wagner  22:09  
Like, I made some stuff yesterday, some small stuff. And, you know, still this morning I get up, first thing, I think, I was like, Oh, I can't wait to go look at see what I made, you know, because it takes 24 hours. Like, cool. So, yeah, I made it yesterday morning, and by this morning it was I was able to open the kilns to actually see what I made. So it's always exciting to see the color, you know, and just the to see if the shape came out right. Because, you know, at certain points, when you're blowing glass, you're working the piece upside down, and then you have to flip the piece around. So you have to, it takes a lot of years to understand the, kind of the ratios that you're looking at, the length versus width, you know, like things like that. 

Rodney  22:47  
So to actually know to make a successful piece, yeah, satisfied with, right? So that, you know, although it sounds very technical, there's still a creativity and an art to that once you Oh, yeah, because we always describe it, we describe it. We describe it in dances. Like, once you've gotten all the technical stuff out your system, now you're just dancing. You're Yes, now you're just, you figured out how gesture speaks, tells a story. Just you can do it this way, or you can go that way. Yeah, it says a completely different thing. And I'm like, but that's where they are. That's what that, to me, was the fun spot. So where's the fun where's the sweet spot for you, now that you've been doing this for years, where's that sweet spot where the creativity just goes BAM? 

Dustin Wagner  23:29  
Well, I think to a degree, I'm actually trying to kind of refind it a little bit, like my sweet spot is really in just textural and patterned work. But, you know, building a studio and having that space like, you know, I can't travel like I used to, so I've got to be there all the time to do certain things. So, like, my time is allotted to a lot of different things. Now, emails every morning and at night until about 10pm you know, stuff like that. So, so right now, really, honestly, my goal is just to find like this, this happy place where all this, these different types of work that I'm not used to, just start to feel easy, and then the creativity can come back, although I have revamped some really awesome works that if you come in, you'll you'll see some done quite a bit of, quite a bit of marini, marini work recently, which I'm pretty proud of Marini, is like a sort of, like A little disc of color that you like pre make. And so you'll pre make, like a bunch of them, then you put them together, like on a hot plate, and you fuse them together, and it becomes a sheet of molten glass that you then roll onto a bubble, like a blanket, kind of, and that coats it in that perfect pattern. So it's pretty unique. So I mean, there's so many things, and I've got sketchbooks full of stuff. So I actually really don't need any ideas. I just go back to the sketchbook, you know. And along with my sketchbook, like, right? Or drawing stuff down, I tend to write notes to myself, and it might be notes of encouragement, or, like, really what I was thinking when I was doing that. Because even though this thing might be abstract, there was something that spawned that. That thing, you know what I mean. So. I'm always trying to keep track of all of those things. Even if it's like, one word, I'll just, like, draw something and just write a word down below it, you know, yeah. 

Rodney  25:08  
So you do, you do whatever, yeah? I mean, we just, you know, yeah, constantly exploring the world. So when you so, because you're taking in information, like you're taking in your, you know, decades of experience in your life, and then also too the life is pretty amazing. 

Dustin Wagner  25:25  
Yeah, it is. 

Rodney  25:28  
I always tell people to look around. There's a solution everywhere. So are you when you were spending those three and a half years just walking around Dayton, Ohio, trying to find the building? What is? What was it about Dayton that did you see some things that people may not see, because who live here, who don't see the beauty? 

Dustin Wagner  25:44  
I just feel like, when I was here, it just felt a little older, like maybe it was like, kind of like behind the times a little bit, but like, in a good way, like, where there's still just, like, these, these magical things around, you know, and I could really feel the energy. And this might sound weird, but when I was a kid, I love, I love watching, like, UFO, like shows and stuff like that. And Dayton always came up, you know, I kind of, like, deep down, I'm like, I think something led me here, you know what I mean? Because it was really a goal, but to be here in particular, but it's just what happens when you travel and do things, you know, so you never know. Could have been aliens. 

Rodney  26:23  
It could have been aliens, which everybody jokes about it, right? Yeah, because there are parts of Wright-Patt None of us can go to Yeah, you know. Let's be very clear about Yeah. No, there is, but there is an energy here, yeah, oh yeah. I mean, and like I said, it was we talked before, before we started rolling, was that this town has, like, ridiculous number of artists, yeah, including music. So are you still doing music? Here? Are you doing music here?

Dustin Wagner  26:52  
 I plan on kind of revamping the music a little bit later. Just been just so busy, and honestly, your head through three years of building, I actually have little arthritis in my right hand now, which I don't know, hopefully, eventually it goes away. It might just be like tendonitis or something, but it's just, you know, I've got to do a lot of strengthening stuff, but that mainly came from painting a 5000 square foot ceiling of beams and stuff like that. So it took me two months to paint the ceiling. I did all the scraping by myself, all the prep work. I pre primed all the metal first. Then I went and actually sprayed. And that took two months. I was just on scaffolding, balancing on top of scaffolding that wasn't quite tall enough, so I had to stand on a box. Like, I'm sure some people out there don't wantto. They're like, yeah.

Rodney  27:36  
 I mean, they're probably saying that, yeah, but that's what, yeah, it would take to sort of, kind of you do this, yeah, 

Dustin Wagner  27:44  
oh, I had to do it because it's almost like having a, you know, when you clean your house, it's like, you just feel good. You feel light. I needed that ceiling painted. I needed everything in that place painted so that I felt fresh all the time. And it I truly do. I feel fresh and like, ready to think, ready to make, ready to invent, at like, any given moment. It's actually kind of a curse, because, dude, I'll be there until like 10 o'clock at night, and I'm just like, I kind of snap out of it. I'm like, oh my god, yeah. But

Rodney  28:13  
that's Wow, yeah, it's got to feel good though. 

Dustin Wagner  28:17  
Yeah, yeah, it started. It's starting to feel good, yeah.

Rodney  28:20  
I mean, so, I mean, I'm kind of curious about like, because I know that you when I looked at the website and I said it was by appointment. So this is for people. I think I encourage anyone and everyone go watch you make glass. Yeah, because I've seen, I've seen other people make glass in other places. And I stopped time stood still for a couple hours. I'm just standing there watching, whoa, whoa, yeah. Just fascinated. 

Dustin Wagner  28:48  
Yeah. It is fun to show off, like, what it is that I do. And I'm not doing, like, easy stuff. I'm not just making, like, a simple vase. No, you're not, you know, I'm really, I'm really trying to make the work that you're seeing in the gallery, you know. So you're seeing all the techniques, all the color techniques I do,

and then having to talk over all of that has been quite a challenge, because it's like, you know, tapping your head and rubbing your belly, you know what I mean? Like, I can do it really good, but, you know, yeah, but, but it truly is like that, because when you're blowing glass, it's not like, it's not like painting, like where you kind of just, like step away to say a few words to somebody. When you're blowing glass, you're you're 100% always engaged with the glass. It's just like baseball. You're just watching the ball all the time, because the glass is sort of alive. It's dancing, it's moving, and you have to kind of move with it. Your Moves affect the glass. And I call it being nice to the glass. If you're nice to the glass, it'll be nice to you. It's gonna reward you, okay, yeah,

Rodney  29:46  
does it teach you infinite, like focus and patience? Because, you know,

Dustin Wagner  29:51  
 I, I think it just made me a little neurotic to a degree, because, like, blowing glass, you you have to be, you have to be perfect. Okay? To, I don't know if you keep up with the Bengals, but when Joe burrow was he was being interviewed for the chiefs, he was like, Well, to be the chiefs, we literally have to be perfect. And that's the same with blowing glass. You have to be perfect all the time. And so it's kind of a blessing and a curse, you know. So you do things really well that aren't even glass, you know. I work hard and and try to stay on top of things and whatever. But, you know, at the same time, it's like, I just want to slow down and just be, be calm, yeah,

Rodney  30:27  
but the end product is so great. And I had a conversation with Jim Delaine at an opening of His Word and he said Dustin is a really cool guy. That's how he's like, 

Dustin Wagner  30:40  
Well, I think, I think Jim's cool. 

Rodney  30:42  
So you there's a mutual admiration. So yeah, let me you know that Jim was great, and it was and that's why I gotta talk to Dustin. And then I'm finally, like, I'm here at station, full time, and so I'm like, Yeah, I'm gonna have that conversation. It's kind of nice to be able to kind of do this other part of my life, which is talk to artists and art making, but Jim's waxes poetically about the kind of, like, is it I do good work, but, you know, Dustin is making art?

Dustin Wagner  31:10  
 Yeah, we're just on like, different levels, but we're on the same page, you know, at the end of the day, you know, you know, he started kind of late in life, and I think that's like, so cool. I love when I'm not calling him old, but I like when older people start new things that start a whole another chapter in their life. I find that to be truly inspiring and honestly, living in Springfield, you know, I met so many people like that, you know what I mean, and thought it was really cool. 

Rodney  31:33  
A lot of people don't give don't really understand this feels a pretty special Yes, I think there's a lot. 

Dustin Wagner  31:39  
Yeah, there's, there's a lot of driven people there right now to do some cool things. 

Rodney  31:43  
Yeah, absolutely. So. So how did Ohio end up with all these places and artists who work in glass? 

Dustin Wagner  31:51  
Well, I'm actually from Findlay, Ohio originally, and that's where the Marathon Oil Corporation or headquarters is. And so that's where they they struck a black gold there, and so, and I actually didn't know this until a few years ago, but Findlay had, like, some of the biggest glass houses, like in the country, and now they're all the all the manufacturing is gone. Those buildings are gone. A lot of that moved up to Toledo, just for you know, because Lake Erie is there and whatnot. So transportation and materials coming in and whatnot. So, yeah, it's kind of interesting. But yeah, I think that has something to do with it for sure.

Rodney  32:25  
Yeah, was kind of like lower half of Southwest Ohio ceramics, pottery, yeah, seemed to be a big thing. Like Bing Davis does, like, hands down. Like, yeah, that man is on another plane of existence. Like, oh, he can just work. It goes, Whoa, yeah, how at 87

Dustin Wagner  32:47  
 Yeah, he's beautiful looking guy, yeah, just like he, you know, you see somebody, you know, there's something special going on. Even if you just saw him in the subway, he'd be like, Wow. Well, you know, I mean, it's almost like he's floating, you know, I've seen him a couple times, and you know, you want to go say hi, but 

Rodney  33:01  
you know you should say hi? Yeah, you will, he will, he will, you, you will be adopted. You will be adopted by Bing. And it's not a bad thing.

Dustin Wagner  33:12  
Would he let me out? Would I have a curfew like, 

Rodney  33:17  
Well, yeah, and, and they'll let you know, if you're disappointing, yeah, he'd be a good dad. Yeah, he's a good dad. He's a good guy. And so like, how, so far, how's it feel to be a part of this arts community in Dayton, Ohio.

Dustin Wagner  33:33  
 It's amazing. Every artist that I've met here, you know, particularly Down, Up Front Street, that's where our building is, near there. Dude, everybody's so nice. You know, I started going to these coffee mornings with a bunch of people from there and and then we had our grand opening. And then from that point on, I've just been so busy I can't get back to these, these 830 in the morning, right? Things you're Yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of full blown now, and it's still kind of all crystallizing and coalescing, you know, my schedule, that is because it's really hard to schedule, you know, because, you know, I get those people that email in and like, oh, I want to do glass, but I do have a minimum kind of requirement of people, so you either got to find some friends, or I got to put you on a wait list. And, you know, I've done groups where it's six completely individual people and doing all the emails for each one. That's like, 10 emails per person, and then the invoicing, and it can be time consuming, 

Rodney  34:26  
yeah, you're doing these things to support the system, 

Dustin Wagner  34:30  
but it's kind of fun. Like, when you're on it, you're like, oh, yeah, I'm a machine. I can do all you know,

Rodney  34:37  
technology, yeah? So what do you say? I mean, what do you say to someone like, Who's this podcast for? Because it's called inspired by, what do you say to someone who may be thinking about going on this glass making journey? What would you what advice on a glass making journey? What would you say to go? Would you say 

Dustin Wagner  34:59  
go work for as Many people as you possibly can. And I actually say that because I was a little shy, kind of in my early 20s, it took me a while to until I was about 30, honestly, to just be able to just kind of talk like normal and have a conversation.

So, like, I kind of didn't let myself go explore a lot of other artists, techniques and things like that. So I really stuck to just a few artists that I worked for for like these five year chunks of time. But I think that actually benefited me in the long run, because I learned how to run a business, how to be good with customers, how to make things that people want. You know what I mean? There's consistency involved in blowing glass. You I mean, like any other job, you got to show up every day, right? But with glassblowing, it's really important that you show up on time, because these machines, they're very expensive to run, so if you're 30 minutes late, hour late, you're not gonna have a job as a glass blower anymore. And you know, I've seen it time and time again, you know, people just kind of burn bridges because they just can't show up on time, you know. 

Rodney  35:56  
So, like, basic, yeah, show up on time.

Dustin Wagner  36:00  
 Yeah, go work for a lot of glass floors and show up on up on time. Those are the two important things, you know. And then I would say, on top of that, save money for 10 years. Live really, really small. I actually named niminal glass just playing with words. It means it's minimalistic, which is the lifestyle that I live to be a glass blower. You know, that's anything from going through dumpsters looking for cardboard boxes so I can ship all the packing material, stuff like that, you know, two knives, two forks, two spoons, just a little bit of food, about two meals a day. The past year, I've been about a meal and a half a day. On the weekends. I sort of eat normal and the weekends with my girlfriend, Beth, that's where I get to indulge a little bit, but get to have, like, 

Rodney  36:01  
Yeah, let's have a meal.

Dustin Wagner  36:02  
But I think some of that stems back to my wrestling background, where it's just, you got used to not eating, you know, if I didn't eat, that means I was going to make weight. That meant that I was going to have an advantage over my opponent, you know what I mean? So, okay, yeah, so really, it's, I'm sort of playing a game with myself, you know, in a way, yeah, 

Rodney  37:01  
but, but, I love, I love the fact that niminal means, yeah, keeping it small, but, but, but, but, that focus of the stuff that doesn't matter, and then it does matter. Those things matter because we have more human beings. We function in our lives. We must have a roof over our head, yeah? And something to eat with and some water, you know, it's still, still sort of what I've when I've talked to other artists and other genres, and, I mean, I we're talking, I mean, I'm talking to everyone, yeah, third season, everyone says the same thing. It was, you know, I remember I was dancing. It was, that's all I did. I focused in on, yeah, it was a six days of training, and then I went to a job because they weren't paying you to train. So it was like, did my job, and then I would start all over again. Yeah, no one understood. I had no room for anything, right? Because I wanted to be 

Dustin Wagner  37:54  
so at night, where you like, when you close your eyes, are you seeing yourself? Dance, going through all the routines, 

Rodney  37:59  
yeah, going through all of it, going through the notes, talking myself off the ledge of like Rodney, that sucked, you know, yeah, you made the right decision, you know, because it is not an, you know, it's not a guarantee. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's what I feel like sometimes with art, or make young, young, young people who are want to be artists, that there's some guarantee that this is going to be a career or a life or a thing, and it's like, and I have to burst their bubble a little bit, yeah, it's not a guarantee. 

Dustin Wagner  38:29  
Yeah, it's, you know, so, yeah, it's kind of funny that you bring that up, because that was a slight point of contention with me and my girlfriend when we were doing all this. I'm like, you know, because I was getting a little stressed out. Because, you know, I saved all the money for the past 12-15, years to pay for everything, all the equipment, and seeing it leave and go. And I'm like, I'm like, Beth, you know, what? If this doesn't work, this, you know, couldn't work. You know, some restaurants like, you know, your first year, you've got a year, you know, and then you're, you're out. So if you make it past a year, then you might go three, you know. So, all

that stuff. I mean, that's like, real stuff I like to think about, because it's sort of it, you know, it drives me a little bit knowing that I could fail pushes me further. You know what I mean, and I failed a lot. I mean, this is technically my second business of being a glass blower. My first business was when I was 25 or 24 maybe, and just didn't go anywhere. Plus, I was working for too many people, you know, getting paid $12 an hour. Yeah, it's just it was hard to try and make a living. So I decided to save more money. And then when I was 30, I basically it just invested $10,000 into myself, and then it turned that 10 to 20, and then next year, the 20, you know, to 30, and then 30, you know, just kept going and going, 

Rodney  39:40  
you know, you just so really this, you knew, yeah, you're gonna this is but is it because of that 25 it didn't work, that it was like, that you have to reassess, you know, we all when you have a failure, it's like, well, I'm never doing that type of ballet ever again, or choreographing like, it's like, yeah, that's just. Just go here, yeah, you know. 

Dustin Wagner  40:02  
But I think, but, you know, I think just maturing to this person, when I was 25 I was still, like, kind of stupid, you know, playing music and, you know, living this sort of rock and roll lifestyle, if you want to call it that or not, but, but, you know, it's funny, I never really lived that because I couldn't drink and have fun before a show, because I don't know, like, I wrote music sober. You know, I write music on the weekends, during the day, and I'm just like, sober. So when I go to a bar and I'm playing a show, dude, I could not drink a drop, because, you know, when I practice at home, I'm just sober. So I have to play the shows sober, you know what

I mean. So I never had as much fun, I think, as some other, some other people, you know, because I didn't start drinking until I retired. Very clear, yeah, I was done dancing, like, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. But certainly, I mean, that's part of discipline with you, you know for sure, 

Rodney  40:55  
and with glass... because I know that this, you know, when you're starting working with materials that are, like, it's physical, yeah, the physicality is what got me. I was like, I would just start watching him doing that. Mm, hmm. 

Dustin Wagner  41:10  
Oh, yeah, yeah, the glass is always working against you. But couple years ago, I kind of changed my mind. I was like, Oh, actually, like, the glass is actually working with me. You know, you love what you said earlier, yeah, you know. So once I sort of made that distinction, I was like, Oh, it seems easier now you don't. I mean letting gravity do some of the work, you know, yeah, 

Rodney  41:31  
you just kind of, you ease into it, you start to go a little light bulb. Moments. Was that work works murder, not harder, right? It just kind of kicks it, yeah, that phrase that you're doing it, yeah? That would kick in when I was dancing,

Dustin Wagner  41:43  
 yeah, you know, yeah, being an artist, I mean, it does take a while for all those little light bulbs that kind of start to flicker a little bit, you know, you're vaguely seeing something that could be something great, but it's not going to happen right now. You got to give it time. You know, have some patience, which is, which is funny, because I'm the least patient person that I know. I just need things done. Like, I need to do it like, now, you know, my brother ended up getting more into ceramics and stuff like that. Really, he just kind of, well, he was kind of doing both at the same time, like he went to college for it, and so he was doing glass after college, and ceramics a little bit, but then he kind of steered way into ceramics. But, like, you know, I like ceramics, but it just takes way too long. I don't have the patience to, like, you know, let it dry, bisque fire, then the glaze, you know, but the result is amazing. 

Rodney  42:33  
I mean, it's phenomenal. Yeah, it's absolutely, it really is. And I'm in awe of those artists and so, you know, dance is something. It was like, I said it was not on. I wasn't a thing I was planning to do. Just kind of stumbled into it. I took dance as a PE requirement, like in college. 

Dustin Wagner  42:33  
Okay, so what about in like, high school? Did you do, like, any theater, you know, interesting. 

Rodney  42:57  
Yeah, nope, nope, nope. So my parents were very confused, so, yeah, like, we're confused, like, so, but I think in their confusion and my confusion, I can look back at, you know, at my age, and go, it all makes sense. The Journey, all the parts of the journey makes sense, yeah, like, to be in this moment, it all makes sense, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dustin Wagner  43:22  
 It's kind of weird, like, what we end up stumbling across, you know, when we don't know if things are going right. And I was talking to my girlfriend the other day, I was like, you know, I kind of don't like knowing what tomorrow is going to be like, you know, and I think that really keeps me in the present. I like there to be some mysteriousness with the next few days in my week. You know what I mean, even though some of it's planned out, you know, I do have a pretty tight schedule. But, you know, as far as, like, you know what to do in the evening with my time, it's like, okay, well, I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna start a new hobby, you know, and just get into this thing. And about a year ago, I actually started napping arrowheads,

which has been a really rewarding hobby. It's very relaxing. I mean, taking a stone that looks like a stone just laying around, and turning that into an arrowhead. I mean, there's nothing like it, dude. I mean, it's like a it's really a puzzle, because, like, Well, how do you get into this, this rock, you know, that's kind of round and weird. Well, you got to hit it in the right spot. Take off a spa a spall is what you would make an arrowhead out of. And then you keep going on that larger piece. And from the bigger piece, then you would make a bigger point, and that would be like a spear point. So it's been super, super fun. And each arrowhead takes a couple hours to do. It's kind of like that deconstruction thing I was talking about, like taking apart a machine. You're deconstructing a rock. I see the image of what's in there, and I'm trying to make that a reality, specific kind of point, or, you know, what have you. So, wow. Yeah, I do em out of glass too. So actually, I almost brought one in to show you. Oh, man, I knew I was gonna bring it up, because I love talking about, like, hobbies and things that I do. Because everything, everything I do, is very like, My hobbies are cheap. You know, I don't have expensive hobbies. 

Rodney  44:59  
Neither do I.

Dustin Wagner  45:00  
Yeah, I go out and find stone for free. The tools that I use, some of them I was able to make, and then some of them I was able to buy, but they've lasted well over a year. They've probably got another year left in the tools that I'm using right now. So, and they're very cheap banjo, you know? It's like, I only need one banjo, you know? And then I can do anything I want, yeah? So, yeah.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai