Visual Artist James Pate

Rodney is joined by James Pate, a visual artist & co-owner of Black Palette Art Gallery in Dayton, to discuss his artistic journey from Birmingham to Cincinnati, where he honed his skills at the Arts Consortium, to how Bing Davis inspired his use of storytelling in his artwork.

Follow Black Palette Art Gallery on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/blackpaletteartgallery

Transcript

James Pate  00:02

Above you know how much money you want to make, and you know how much recognition you're trying to get, put put skill building in front of it, and commit to getting better at at developing your work.

Rodney  00:13

Chase excellence, not gold.

James Pate  00:15

Chase excellence, not gold. See, see now. See now. My next interview is going to go back to Rodney. Bill not gold. I love it.

Rodney  00:40

Rodney. Hello, everyone. I'm Rodney veal. The host of Rodney veal is inspired by podcast, and I'm super excited today because I get to fanboy out and have a conversation with one of my favorite artists in the community and perhaps the world, James Pate, who is the co owner of James pay black palette gallery in Dayton, Ohio, but he is an extraordinary artist who's operating on a level that just goes beyond and I'm just so excited to to have this conversation with him, to get to share his life story and his technical prowess, even though this is our audio recording. I mean, we're going to talk about a lot of things, but he is just is just truly an inspirational, amazing man. So, James, welcome to the podcast. Well,

James Pate  01:28

thank you, Rodney. I'm glad to be here, and you know, glad to have a conversation with you, and I'll try to be as insightful as possible, and and, of course, receive, you know, your awesome energy that'll that'll help usher this conversation on along. So, so yeah, thanks for that complimentary introduction.

Rodney  01:51

Oh, it's totally heartfelt, and it's like from a place of love. So, James, we gotta get, you know, it's kind of kind of feel like this is your life sort of kind of portion of the podcast. But let's talk about origin story. Let's talk about like growing up. And, you know, artists tend to manifest this sort of creativity and artistry early, and people kind of witness it. So talk to me about how it all began, because, and also, too, I kind of learned that you're not originally you weren't born in southwest Ohio. So talk about that origin story?

James Pate  02:23

No, I was born in Birmingham, Alabama. I was raised by my grandparents. They came down and got me and my six siblings and brought us up to Cincinnati, where I, you know, I pretty much consider Cincinnati home and Birmingham more. So a birthplace, so, yeah, so Cincinnati and dateness, where I, sort of, you know, horned in on my development for the most part. And And growing up in Cincinnati, you know, I was one of those kid artists. You know, often you have artists who, you know, in fact, I was told someone along my development told me that artists come young anyways, in terms of their realization of, you know, their talent and that kind of thing for the most part. So, you know, growing up in the West End Section of Cincinnati. There was a the West End and also Avondale, so but there is an art center called the arts consortium in Cincinnati, and it was a center that housed several different art disciplines. You know, you know, dance, drama, visual art, you know, vocal music, instrumental and, and that kind of thing. And so, you know, I enrolled, I might have been in the third or fourth grade, and I am, yeah, and there was instructor, there art instructor by the name of Tyrone Kenny, and he was a student at UC and UC art department at the time, and he taught us a lot of fundamentals. And really it was sort of like college prep types of stuff, because we were, we were gesture drawing in like the third grade. You What? Okay, to the point where I don't really remember drawing any other kind of way. So I didn't really get a chance to get that habit of drawing really tight, if though you're writing your letters, right, I was drawing loose when I was like, in in grade school, you know, just drawing loose and learning techniques and learning some, you know some art philosophy. You know in terms of processing, where you are, you working. You know, going through the process of working from general to specific and being very. Loose for as long as you can, as you move into the development of the piece of work, and you can decide just how tight you want to get, or how you know how loose you want to keep it. So, I mean, yeah, that was, and I just happen to have an aptitude enough to really comprehend that and and so I was sort of off and running at an early age with with my development and being mature, and, you know, in my art development and art making, and, you know, to the point where I auditioned and went to the school for the Creative and Performing Arts, and that say, you know, it's an arts magnet school, you know, here in Dayton, it would be Stivers, right, right? But in Cincinnati, it's like Cincinnati, it's, we call it PA for short. And you know that that was like, very, a very good experience, because, again, I was, you know, and I've always been around like, a very heavy artistic environment, you know, throughout my my life and my development. And so at performing arts, you know, that environment, again, it was filled with with a lot of the other art disciplines and and at the time, you were required to take one or two other art disciplines other than your major. Because what happens is that, and you know, the administrators, they knew that some people will be better at one of the other arts, you know, more so than their major. And you know you know, you had a lot of kids that ended up switching majors as a result. So I did, I did dance, I did vocal music, and I ended up doing drama, you know, so that was pretty cool. In fact, I was in, I was in one of the straight dramas. I used to do a lot of, a lot of musicals, right? Once a year they did at least one straight drama. So I was in A Raisin in the Sun, and I played the role of George Murchison, wow, yeah, I didn't do too bad. It was, it was okay, alright, but, but I didn't want to continue, because I didn't like the schedule, like the rehearsals, oh yeah, because I wanted to leave school and go, Yeah, you know, play some basketball in the neighborhood. I just stick to the art thing, because I really didn't have the commitment to, you know, to do the drama, you know, the drama thing, so, but Performing Arts was, it was pretty good. I really enjoy being around all of that. Energy, stick energy, yeah,

Rodney  07:55

that's a real special thing. I'm I'm sitting here with this look of my face of like, wait, what? Like this because, but I also recognize, you know, I taught at Stivers. I just realized I sat there for 19 years. And I really do believe that you do have to, you can't just be siloed in your one art form. You got to have some experiences in other forms, and that does kind of bleed in. So I'm kind of curious, do you think any of that kind of bled into the later work? I mean, as far as what you make and how you kind of see your the especially when you're visualizing what you're going to create,

James Pate  08:34

yeah, like, in a tremendous way, because, you know the arts, you know, and I'm sure this happens with a lot of other different disciplines, but the arts, you know, they're all relative. They just sort of present themselves in a different way, and you're using different mediums and tools. So there's a relationship between the making of music and the making of of a choreography piece that a dancer might do, or a piece of music, as I said. And you know, in visual art, because you're starting out with like this blank surface or blank space, and you're gonna go through this process of filling it in with a composition with elements. And so there's these relative things, and when you kind of understand one, it can help you understand another, because you have something to sort of relate it to, or at least for me. So when I'm working with, for instance, in visual art, and I'm working with different values and playing with contrast and shape and that sort of thing. Well, I know that the darker notes and music is relative to like the darker values and visual art and the lighter in the lighter values and visual visual art is relative. To like the higher notes and the higher keys and in music, so you can sort of compose and play around with things, with with different, excuse me, with different disciplines in mind. For instance, if, if I'm listening to some music, and I'm working on some art, and there's a series of riffs that are like in the higher keys and higher notes, you know, I found myself using like, lighter values at that point in time, you know, just hearing, hearing needs, and the same thing with the lower notes, it is caused me to go with some deeper, darker values and mid tones and mid range values when I'm working with visual arts. So, so, yeah, so, you know, you have these relationships that that can kind of help you, sort of Usher your way through a piece of work, and, you know, and and if you're doing like a series of work, it can sort of help you, you know, formulate, you know, broader concepts. You know, you hear, you hear a lot about artists, you know, piggybacking off of the different arts, you know, you've, yeah, you have musicians that might see a painting and it may inspire them to do something, and vice versa, you know? So,

Rodney  11:31

Oh, absolutely. And, well, you know, and I, and that's the kind of, the that's the kind of, the beauty of being an artist is that you can kind of because I don't, I'm lately, decided not to call it play. It's investigation as a you know, because playing implies that, that it's not serious, that it's not a like, that there's no intentional thought process behind engaging with the making process. And so I feel like your investigations, I didn't realize, I mean, like I'm thinking about it, I'm thinking about your work. And like I'm like, there is a rhythm. There is that light and dark when you talk about values creeping in. And I can, now can see it, I mean, and I think that's why, that's what I love about this podcast, because it's like, I hope that people listen to this conversation and then they decide, okay, you know what, I need to go see this guy's work. And then they go see it. And they go, that's what he means. And they can see it because it's sometimes, you know, they want to know that information. And that just just deepens their, I'm finding out there, deepens their respect for the work. When they realize that this is not just play. This is not just arbitrary. There are some real substantive things going on, not just in the technique, but in your subject matter. Like I feel like you. I even that one straight drama, Raisin in the Sun, I think kind of I when I see your work, especially like that. It's like this vignettes. They feel like dramatic vignettes, that they're like we're peering into a play that's been captured in a single panel. And I just, I feel that way about your work. I mean, it is, it is so detailed and so rich, deserving a repeated viewing, because there's so much there, right? Well,

James Pate  13:23

you know, something in relation to that, Bing Davis, you know the great Bing Davis,

Rodney  13:30

yeah, absolutely, we all bow down.

James Pate  13:34

He made me. He sort of made me aware that I was telling stories, that storyteller visually. And I never really thought of myself as that. Really, I just, I just thought of myself as wanting to communicate a point, and in that, and within that, I would do all the things necessary in order to convey the point or to illustrate the point. And so I would just use whatever came to mind that I thought would, you know, would make that the most effective, and in some ways provide some some clarity about what the thought is and what and what I'm trying to communicate. But it turns out that after he raised my awareness of let us and I thought, well, maybe that's what I am doing storytelling, but it's visually so, you know, often think, think in terms of storytelling when about visual art, unless it's something that's like illustrated in a book and you have words to to compliment, you know what you're doing, but visual art. Yeah, and. And ever since that point, and this is fairly recent, like about five years or so ago,

Rodney  14:51

wow, really. So this is this conversation just kind of okay,

James Pate  14:55

yeah, and, and ever since that point is sort of like my. Awareness has been raised to where now, when I revisit, revisited art that I've admired over the years, and some of the artists that that I've sort of, you know, just sort of looked at their work and I was like, Oh, wow. So Jacob Lawrence, hey, that's storytelling. He's telling his story, you know. And I'm looking at Romero beard, and then I'm just like, okay, you know, because before then, it was just, man, look at that composition. Look at that arrangement of what he did with that look at look at these values and colors and, you know, and XYZ, and wow, look at those decisions that he made to insert this or that image. And, you know. And so you just all geeked out on a lot of this sort of, you know, technical sort of academic stuff, but you're in tune to the vibe and the spirit of it. But I just didn't think of it in terms of telling storytelling, but it was right there in front of my face, you know, right?

Rodney  16:01

I you know, I find like, what I love about, what I find out always interesting. And this is being, we've been at this podcast for a while that a lot of times the artists I've talked to, and it doesn't matter what the discipline is, and even beyond visual arts, that there's always some sort of person I'm gonna I'm gonna put it in air quotes, mentor or person that you respected, admire, who kind of looks at your work and goes, you know, you're, you're really doing this, and it's like a light bulb moment that that triggers them to co get it kind of gets them so jazzed up that that they just, it's like, it's like, you just turned on the engine, You just rev the engine for them, and they just, they're off to the races. Did that happen today? Is that what? Because I because, if you get it from, from, from Papa Bing, that's, that's enough to fuel you for at least 20 years, as far as I'm concerned.

James Pate  16:56

Yeah, you know, in See, I've met being early on, yeah, you know, in my career and in my life, you know, as well. I mean, I was still in Cincinnati and, you know, and I was, what, in middle school, and that age at at the school for the Creative and Performing Arts, and we visited it being at Miami of Ohio University, and, you know, and he had this lasting impression on me. I mean, it never left. And I just met him, just at one time, but I ended up reaching back out to him when I was graduating from high school, because, like I said, it just, he just never left, you know, my my thinking and my thoughts about the person. It was the personality, you know, I hadn't seen a lot of his work. I might have, you know, saw some of his work at that time, but it was his character and his personality that that stuck with me, that caused me to reach out to him, you know, and inquire about going to school at Central State University, where he, you know, became chair of the art department out there. So, yeah, so being and then learning about artists like Charles White, yeah. These are, these are, like some African American, you know, master artist, and it's just sort of helped to develop your identity as an artist. Yeah, yeah, you sort of decide, you know how you want to go about being an artist. And so for me, it was like, Hey, man, I think I'm just going to pile up skill, as much skill as I can, just academic skill, primarily at that time, you know, and just learn, you know, how to process. And intuitively, I knew that I'll be able to express my points or views after I live some life, but at the main in the meantime, I'm just gonna get skilled, as skilled as possible. Wow. And that

Rodney  19:11

is mature. That is yeah, very I mean, that's not always how some artists like kind of approach this. I mean, that's

James Pate  19:20

Yeah, yeah. I didn't, yeah. I didn't care about making statements or, or, you know, being, you know, sharing any kind of political views about this or that. A third, it was just, I just want to be good at processing art, you know, I don't care if it's still life or if it's a landscape or something figurative, it just didn't matter. I just wanted to be able to execute that and and duplicate it and then experiment with it and alter it, you know. And then you go on to continue learning about you. Just approaches, whether it would be something more freestyle or something more planned out and designed, or if it would be a combination, you know, of the two, you know. So I was sort of locked in on that kind of stuff. And lo and behold, once I did develop my points of views, and I just started using those skills to communicate, you know, my thoughts and perspective about things.

Rodney  20:28

Oh, wow. I mean, I love the fact that when you talk about this, like honing in because that was, I was talking to Amy deal, and she kind of kind of talked about that, this notion of her, her upbringing. She grew up in a part of Ohio where they were potato farms, and she, she just stayed out in the woods all day, all the time, just taking it in, wow. And that was her kind of way of kind of and so you when you see your work now, you go, Oh, this is why you have this affinity towards nature. This is why you have this you know, you don't say like that sometimes the environment and which is really interesting. But in your case, it's not the environment. It's like hunkering down on technical skill, which is so evident in your work. I mean, I That's why I bow down and I'm in awe. I mean, not just in your technical skill, it's the scale in which you work that is brother. Man, I am here to tell you, there's no one like you. It's exciting. There's an energy. And there's an excitement to that. Because what was a moment when the technical still once you when you felt like I got the technical skills down. Now I'm gonna start like, kind of like Miles Davis was very formal until he wasn't formal. Where was that? What was the moment when that happened for you? I'm kind of curious, right?

James Pate  21:57

Um, it was a moment when I was sort of challenged to create a series of works. Because it was, you know, the notion out there was, if you can't do a consistent body of work, then you're not stable as an artist. Because, you know you're jumping around too much, because I would just like to just experiment and just play around. And, you know, I wasn't that interested in doing the same exact thing every day, or, you know, the same subject matter every day. And so I was challenged to to, to, you know, to produce, like, a consistent body of work. And it really wasn't a challenge. It was just a challenge from, you know, the other parties. But for me, it's like, that's not a big deal to me, you know, I could, you know, I could produce a series of work. This has a common theme and, and, you know, sort of, you know, stuff happening in it, with symbolism and so on and so forth and so right around, I'd say, 2020, yeah, I developed the series can kill and can As a result, yes, okay, because, I mean, it was a lot of stuff that was happening in the community, and you know, as it pertains to black on black crime, for lack of a better term. You know, some, some, some people legitimately disagree with that term, but for lack of a better term, right, right? Well, yeah, black on black crime. And you know, these conversations just kept surfacing about how us in our community, and you know, certain people in our community, you know, had put the Ku Klux Klan out of business, and so, because we were, you know, killing ourselves. And so I started imagining how that would look literally. And so I just decided I would illustrate us and traditional Ku Klux Klan garments and committing these crimes against each other. But I also wanted to weave in it, our, our glorification and our greatness, our uniqueness, our gifts to the world. So, so I weaved in, you know, a lot of symbolism, a lot of African symbolism, a lot of symbolism as it pertains to, like I said, our, our uniqueness and our, you know, our gifts, you know. And I wanted to juxtapose those two and create this, this friction, and raise the question of, like, how could this be, you know, what has happened historically that has brought us to this point and, and so, you know? So I created that series. And, and it went for maybe 1518, pieces. And they were like, sort of like these oversized storyboard looking pieces,

Rodney  25:10

right, right? And, but that scale, then that scope, that scale I'm talking about, yeah,

James Pate  25:16

yeah, so, and then, I mean, that was, you know, one of the points that I did, sort of, you know, I guess, go into, you know, developing works that I guess had a message behind it, or, you know, something that sort of conveyed what my inner concerns were, you know,

Rodney  25:47

and you know, and having seen all the I saw all the panels when you had your exhibition of the work, it was, I mean, I mean, I watched, I observed, not Just your work. I observed other people interacting with your work, and that was one of the first times I've seen people take a little bit longer to digest what they were seeing work than I had seen in you know, I'm, you know, I'm almost 60. You know, a lot of times people do drive bys when they go, when they go into galleries, when they see work, I call it like 20 seconds and I'm done. No, this is minutes. This is people getting close, stepping back, putting the fingers, you know, on the chin, processing. And so that's what I responded to when I saw not only just when I was pausing to take into work, so, but the thing is, what's what? What I What amazes me, and I don't think people realize, is, like, you know, this kind of work, there's a tendency to think, Oh, he's doing this heavy, serious work. But, man, you've got a sense of humor. There's a joy and a lightness to you, and you're that, I don't think people quite, you know, I'm saying, like, once, like once, once they think, Oh, well, James, is this black artist doing this work? Like, No, you're not an you're not an easily categorizable artist. I said, No, no, the brother moves in light. There's some joy. I let you know, and there's, you know. And so is that a thing? I mean, I mean, do you feel that sometimes that people only because that was such a powerful, strong work, but I know that there's a body work. That's why I'm encouraging people to go, go check out James's gallery and go check out his work, because it's like, you're going to see the spectrum. So is that, is that, is that, is that a challenge, like to not have people only limit you to one way of being?

James Pate  27:51

Yeah, you know, gosh, it's funny that you say that, because these are things that I think about a lot, and I have thought about a lot in terms of, you know, how I want to be perceived and that kind of stuff. Because there's that element of, you know, you're not supposed to really care that much about it. And then there's an element where it's just by default, you're going to think that way, you know, regardless, yeah. And it was one of the reasons why I like to change up mediums because, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, I don't want to necessarily be looked at as, okay, he's a oil painter or a charcoal artist or a scratch board artist or a pen and ink person, you know, it's, it's Because, at its core, what we do is entertainment, in my opinion, and so that's,

Rodney  28:45

you know, that's controversial, right? You know, folks, yeah, yeah, but,

James Pate  28:49

you know, but we can, and it's very debatable. We can go back and forth, but, I mean, but, I mean, I can make the argument, you know, all day and long, all day long, but, and it's funny how you or it's interesting how you, how you mentioned, you know, the personality thing. You know, because my spouse, my spouse, Shola Oda May, she always said, James, you need to let people know that you're crazy and let them know that you like, you know, could be just a fun loving dude, because you do this work that is so heavy and serious and stuff, and it's like, you know, you might make people afraid of you.

Rodney  29:34

Like, I mean, that's funny that she noticed only a spouse would notice, like, a great, you know James, people don't you know, because that's you know, because, and I notice it, I think you're, you're funny. I just, I'm thinking, Okay, I know you end up thinking, I don't think people kind of associate that with James. And I want to, kind of, I was kind of curious to ask that question today, and

James Pate  29:57

something else you said that I that I think about a lot too. And that is, you know, art being looked at at a glance. You know, that happens a lot. And so I would try to do things deliberately, to try to get someone to just stop and look, you know. So you know, because, you know, we walk past art a lot, and viewers, that's, that's why I use the word entertainment, because it's like, Okay, I gotta do something to seduce this person to look at, to look at the art and and often, I'll start with the skill, you know, just doing something that's, that's, that's highly skilled to where that could be the attractor, you know? And then you get in and you can sort of look at these things and what's happening within it, you know, it's sort of like we talked about the other arts discipline. So in music, it's like you do a piece of music that's just just the instrumental part of it is, it's seductive. And then next thing you know, these lyrics and these and then melody of the lyrics is, is what's really end up? Is what really end up, you know, telling you all about this piece of music, you know? So, so, yeah, so I would go above and beyond with trying to seduce someone to look at my work. And at the same time, you know, I definitely is paramount that I'd be very honest with it, you know, it is not just something that might be gimmicky or just skill based, you know, and and I'm conscious enough to to know that if it's something that just solely decorative, and that's the objective, and that's the purpose of it, that it has its place to and and it's not beneath me to do something that's just for purposes of the backdrop and for the background, and it doesn't have to necessarily grab someone and, you Know, and never let them go, you know.

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Rodney  32:55

That's what excites me. And one of my questions to you is, because when we talk about this range, because your eye for composition, I always feel like, you're, you're like, your lens is so, so sharp and clear. I'm like, I can again. He should be a filmmaker like our photographer. I mean, I really seriously. I mean, because I always think about, I think about artists like, I think about Steve McQueen. I think about, he's, you know, he was, he started off as a multimedia artist and and then he becomes like an Oscar winning filmmaker. And Julian's novel, who start, you know, you know, this really abstract painter, constructionist, and who becomes, you know, making Hollywood films. Have you ever, have you ever thought about that

James Pate  33:43

yet? But it is just been, you know, sort of trapped in my imagination. But yeah, and even when I'm, you know, looking at me movies or any kind of video and film, you know, I'm doing critiques of it and and I'm imagining what I would do differently, or, you know, and that kind of thing, and how this or that could have went, or what this shot might have been, and, you know, it's like, Oh, that would have been a good place for a close up. And it would have been, you know, would it? We would have been able to communicate this to that as a result. It's funny. You say, like, what? Because composition, that's the, that's where you really kind of express your distinctiveness, is through the way that you actually arrange these elements. That's where we're all different. You know, because you can have, we can all have the same elements, it's like the same 12 notes, but a little Wayne piece of music is going to sound differently than a Chopin, you know, because of the arrangement, because of the composition. So that's where your distinction come from. So I utilize composition in that way, and you have to sort of have an admiration for it to where you're you. Looking at a lot of art and a lot of work, and you're seeing all these different compositions so that you could not repeat, you know, a lot of the compositions, especially the ones that you admire, because the ones that you admire, you know, you'll have a tendency to sort of mimic, right, right? So, yeah. So composition is what I rely on to to cause distinction, you know, along with subject matter. But because art is a visual thing, you know, so the composition sort of have to lead the way, so to speak. And then a subject can can follow. And then, you know, the subject matter can end up being the final hook, right? But, yeah, yeah, composition, and yes, yes, I have thought about, you know, film and, you know, directing and that kind of thing. It's the kind of thing that I have some confidence that I could do that, but the interest just has to be there in order to actually commit to it, you know, there's a learning curve I would definitely have to sort of, sort of deal with, especially with technical stuff, you know,

Rodney  36:10

but you, but you've already shown that you can master technical skills. I mean, I'm just saying, I'm just, I'm just planting a seed. I'm just, I would buy a ticket to the film that you would make. You

James Pate  36:22

know, you know you just completely, you just completely beaten up on my humility. I mastered what

Rodney  36:34

I think you could. I think you could master the technical aspects of filmmaking. And because the thing is, it's, it's storytelling, yeah, which is what you already do, storytelling. It's just, it's just in a different medium. It's like, you know? So I think that's what, like, I said, I was like, that's why, that's why I get excited about our artists and art making and the pro like, I'm excited about the process. I used to say, this is something I've never told people that I used to not enjoy the performance. I enjoyed the process of learning how to master the combination and the story of the ballet and tell it in the in the in the rehearsal. So that I was like, well, that's anti climatic. I figured it out. You know, I just gotta replicate it. I'm like, Okay,

James Pate  37:20

it's like, you got to kill now. It's like, okay, yeah, we're ready to go hunt again. We're ready

Rodney  37:26

to hunt again. And it's like, well, no, you guys, you know, rehearse. You got to do this ballet for three audiences in a row, you know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday matinee and so and so I was just And it used to confound the people that I danced for. They didn't understand that, that I was like, I wanted to understand what the motivation of the prince was. Why could he see the difference between these two ones, these two characters, you know? And so I, like, I just were, like, they were like, Would you quit being intellectualizing this ballet? Oh, my God. I mean, don't you, it doesn't that make it believable. And so I always think about that, you know, in terms of, so, that's why I say what I say, because I'm like, I get it. I mean, when you talk about process, like, oh, yeah, every artist loves the like, just in it, just let us be in a studio, let us imagine. That's why it's important for

James Pate  38:20

that, yeah, but it makes all all it makes it all interesting to me. It sort of keeps it, you know, keeps the curiosity up, the curiosity levels, they sort of stay up for me because of all these different things that you're talking about that's involved with making, making the art, and, you know, making it art and thinking about your audience, you know, thinking about how it's going to be perceived, and in some cases, controlling how to be perceived based on what you do to it, and getting that feedback, you know, because I just love it when I get the feedback from people that say stuff and make comments about what I was intending them to make the comment about, or what I was intending them to walk away with it from, you know, it's like, Oh, okay. So it's like, okay, that worked, what I was thinking about. And then, of course, you know, say things that you just totally didn't see coming, you know? And it's like, you know, I really, I really love that, that interaction, you know, I've had people look at my work and and I've retitled The work because they titled it something that was a better title than what I placed on. And it's like, Oh, do you mind if I name that work that? Now,

Rodney  39:40

I know, because I am notorious for that. Like, I'm like, Hmm, like, that's a great title. That's a great title. Oh, I do that. I'm really good for that. How do you because I know you've done mural work, and I think people need to understand that you've also done murals, I wouldn't. And full, full caveat. To the to the audience. You're featured heavily in the Bing Davis documentary that we did for the station because of the relationship that the two of you have. But I found these photos, James, when you were like, clearly a youngin, I'm gonna use that. I'm gonna sound like my grandmother. Youngin, you were doing a mural, and it was on, it was off of Lexington Avenue, on a building. Do you remember doing that on Lexington? It was off of Lexington Avenue. I don't know the cross. I'm so bad across streets, indeed, but it was on the west

James Pate  40:37

side, on river Riverview. Yes, it was on Riverview. Yeah, yeah. That was way back when I first came to Dayton, right? And that project popped up when it was through the city of Dayton. And what is that? Is that Dayton view, I think it's considered a Dayton view.

Rodney  41:00

I think it's, I think it's Dayton view. I think it's called Dayton view, yeah.

James Pate  41:04

And so I, I was trying to just get some, you know, some visibility here in Dayton. And so I did that on the cheap. And, yeah, but

Rodney  41:23

sometimes, well, that's I'm laughing, because sometimes we do what we got to do when we start exactly. It's not, we never start off at the high level, right, right? You gotta,

James Pate  41:34

yeah, so, so, so the paycheck wasn't the objective. It was just get some visibility. And it was, it was pretty fun because, you know, I worked on that, that wall, and it was a pretty big wall. I think it was like 12 feet by maybe 80 something. Yeah, it

Rodney  41:53

was big. Yeah, for the photos, we didn't use them in the dock, but I, I remember, like, we stumbled across them in the archives. And like, James is working. He was working. Hey, he was, I mean, and so I was kind of curious about that. So, so this is that first time you're when, so you when you moved to Dayton? What it

James Pate  42:10

was? Man, it was, it was early. I was in, like the mid 90s or something. Oh, wow. Oh yeah, yeah, that's

Rodney  42:18

a, that's a, that's, that's, a minute for sure. That's definitely been a minute,

James Pate  42:22

yeah. And, you know, my design again, you know, was just, you know, putting together this composition, these images, and ended up just telling a story about the neighborhood and about the city and and I it was something because it was a mural there before, and it was a mural that was there that was done by artist Reggie Harmon. Oh, yes, you know, yeah. And it started to decay, so they wanted to put something else up there. And at the very beginning, man, people were driving by and screaming out of their cars like you better put some up there to me, somewhat, oh,

Rodney  43:07

you see, oh, you, you had critics before they were,

James Pate  43:12

you know. And not that up, you know, wow. And I was, and I was thinking to myself, hmm, you know, I got you, you know,

Rodney  43:25

I accept that challenge. Yeah,

James Pate  43:26

I accept that, you know, because I'm already knowing what's going to go up there. And so about midway, you know, there it comes, the compliments start flowing in. And, you know, it's like, okay, you're doing us proud. And I'll tell you, I tell you, people were so nice. People were bringing by, like, jugs of water and juice and food, you know? And I was like, Okay, this is, this is Dayton. No, you feeling it was actually the first time I met Ken brain, yes, yes. And nephew with her. And she came by just to introduce herself and say, hey, you know, and just was complimenting me on on a job that was happening. And coach Tom, the late Tom Clem Thomas Clemens, he came by and, and he came by with advice, because he's not, he's an artist himself, and, you know, so he taught art and Dayton public schools as well as coached. And he said, Yeah, they call me coach. And he said, What kind of paint that you using, you know? And I was like, well, it's acrylic paint. It's like, and you should be using oils, you know, oils, they gonna last longer. It's a stronger bond. You start talking about the chemistry of oil painting. And I was like, yes, yes. And so, you know, he and I befriended, and yeah, and he ended up being, you know, one of my mentors, along with being, wow, the late Curtis Barnes. Mm. Hmm. So, yeah. So that was a really good experience. And, like I said, I was just interested in some visibility and, and so that definitely, it definitely occurred, yeah, wow.

Rodney  45:13

James, so I gotta ask this question, because, you know, that's, I mean, the success as an artist, you're like, you know, it's great. It was growing, and now we are here. It's 2024, but you have a gallery space, and I'm, you know, when people always talk about, I'm talking to other artists. Are we sorry? Well, how do I, how do I, you know, how do I get my work seen? How do I engage and connect with the community? And you've always been engaged and connected to Dayton, because you moved here and you've been developing these bonds. I'm kind of curious, like, what, what was the motivation? Because owning a gallery in a space is no small feat. I mean, what

James Pate  45:55

led to this? Oh, led to being the co owner of a gallon,

Rodney  46:01

yeah, black pellet,

James Pate  46:05

because monsoon booty, the great poet from Chicago, and he and Bing Davis are a really good friend. So he's visited Dayton here, you know, a few times, you know, on business, and just some other occasions and and he made a comment once about what a brick and mortar can mean to a community, and he stressed how you need a place where people can can come to physically say, because the technology is fine, this is not going to go anywhere, and it's going to increase in its importance, say, but you got a place where, particularly kids can come to and physically see, you know what's there and what you're doing, and the image of you operating it, you Say, that's, that's paramount. And it just stuck with me. So when the opportunity came to to get this space here at Black palette art gallery, I sort of jumped on it, you know, just based on what high key had had said to me. It just really resonated and and it just sort of became, or I adopted it as part of my own philosophy. You know, it is different than, say, retail for selling various products. I mean, you know, you don't necessarily need a brick and mortar per se, but nonetheless, it still may apply to that, to that thought of having a brick and mortar, but you can be a lot more effective just having an online store. But with art, you know, it's sort of a must see, you know, you've got to see especially original, yeah, got to see it in a lot of the very serious collectors they will travel because they must see that original, especially before purchasing it, but often just to get absorbed or to absorb it. So that was the, the main sort of, you know, inspiration to to get a gallery and and then, you know, I was thinking that, you know, the gallery could be a space where it's sort of a hybrid between a commercial gallery and a vanity gallery. Vanity meaning, like my stuff, and in between exhibiting other artists work, I would put my stuff up. Wow. And we also wanted to have a space that's just large enough and just small enough where you could do solo exhibitions, because galleries, especially commercial galleries, don't typically like to do solo exhibitions, and so we decided we would make that like a niche, to have solo exhibitions and as much as possible. And then the name even black palette, it's it's a name that has the ethnicity attached to it, and we embraced that. But we, we decided, and this is me and Shola. She, she's the one that named it black palette Art Gallery and and what's behind it is this idea of of the anti starving artist, you know, cliche that's been out there for years, way

Rodney  49:42

too long, way too long. Yeah, group I can't stand. And

James Pate  49:47

so the term Black is it's really coming from the business term, the economic term. So when a business is in the black, it's showing a profit, as opposed to being in the red, which means. Means that that you're more in debt. So, so, yeah, so black palette, and we also wanted to recognize the achievement of of black people in this country as it pertains to economics and business, given that, since we arrived on these shores, we put this country in the black, so to speak, as as enslaved. It's factual, of course. And then when you fast forward and just over the years from all that, all of the contributions we made, you know, we made a lot of people a lot of money. So we put a lot of companies in the black every everything, ranging from when they start recording us, jazz and blues, Miles Davis and Columbia Records, you know, absolutely, you name it, Michael Jordan and

Rodney  51:05

Aretha Franklin, Atlanta records, young Atlanta

James Pate  51:09

record, you know. So we just wanted to recognize the economic impact that that black people have had in this country from just putting these companies in the black. So that's, that's where you get black palette gallery.

Rodney  51:25

Wow, see. And that's the thing, James, I mean, that's, it's like, it goes like I said, it's more than and that's why it's like, I'm, I am so strongly telling people, y'all need to, it's black palette galleries on West Third Street in Dayton. And I know there are people that the podcast goes out in the consequent country. If you ever come to Dayton, Ohio, put that on your list. Go see the gallery space because, and there's a lot of other gallery spaces in art, this is a really art centric space community, but I, but I really, really strongly suggest, because you're going to get, you're going to get more than what you realize, if you go,

James Pate  52:03

yeah, yeah, I'm glad, you know, because said that, because it's making me think about what Shola would want me to say, and that is, you know, the space is a rental space as well. So we have, like, a little stage and a gallery, and that sort of makes it unique as a gallery, you know, as a full gallery. So, so, yeah, so it's a rental space for relatively small events, and we've had quite a few of them, and there's always art on the wall, so we have that extra, that sort of added layer of entertainment, and it increases our viewership, and, you know, that kind of thing so, but again, there's that word entertainment, that that people, it's some Well, debate,

Rodney  52:49

I know that I swear that you can't. And the thing is, I've been in, I mean, one of the things I loved, because I remember when Scott Jones premiered his music compositions in your space, that was the most, you know. And you know, I was a part of the process, and to hear how he had composed a piece of music that kind of captured the essence of me. And it felt so good and right,

James Pate  53:17

you know, that was crazy. I That

Rodney  53:19

was crazy. That was like, I was, I was like, it just was so moved. And so was that just because it was me, it was just the fact that it was this broad spectrum of people that he had interviewed to get their story and their essence, and it came through. And you, you guys, hosted that. And I'm so grateful because, man, the community showed up.

James Pate  53:39

The community showed up. It was packed. I was chairs, just sort of packed a place that energy was incredible. It was a coming together of the arts. And I'll tell you, I talked to Michael Wade, who was one of the musicians afterwards, and he said, he said, I don't know how Scott, I don't know how Scott done that. That was a lot of music he wrote. This is all original composition, original

Rodney  54:07

compositions. And we're it wasn't just what it was like, what it was a lot of people that

James Pate  54:11

he, yeah, yeah, a lot of musicians that he wrote, you know, parts for musical parts for that was just like, and Mike, he just brought it to my attention, you know. And he's, he's a Cincinnati trumpeter that that has national recognition. And he said that was a lot of music he wrote and, and it made me think about my own art production again, you know, just relating these parts. And it was like, I was like, Yeah, that was a lot of notes and a lot of different variations of music and the insertion of different styles and eras of music. Yeah, I was like, man, he was, you know, he's got to be taking a big breather after this, you know, but

Rodney  54:55

he, but he isn't, because he, he's jumping right back into the composition game again.

James Pate  54:59

Whoo. Oh yeah, to do you know, right?

Rodney  55:04

I mean, but I mean, I'm sure you're not resting. I mean, you know, I know you don't, don't act like James, and you're not still working, you know, yeah, because you know, because you know it's what we do, it's what we do, it's like and I'm so glad we're having this conversation, because I feel like this is my this is my last question. And I always ask this a guest because I want, because I'm hoping that people share this with other people. What it what was, what's a piece of advice or an idea that you want to parlay to folks about the about the creative process and the inspiration to create, because there are a lot of people who want to do this. What we do? So what will put your advice to them?

James Pate  55:53

You know, we'll go back to that commitment to building skill and just making sure that you're at some level of proficiency, from from a skill standpoint, because it's just flat out a requirement to be, you know, and and commitment. So in a lot of this, a lot of this stuff is very, very common when, when you hear answers to questions like that, you know, you know the commitment, because it's sort of like, you know you have to physically work in order to make discoveries, you know, as opposed to it just being something that's in your imagination, and you're not physically putting in the time to work with it, because, again, that's when you will Learn about yourself the most, and you will make discoveries. You'll discover another technique. You're going to just by default, you're going to end up thinking of some other way to just simply hold a paintbrush, to just get a certain stroke or something. It's just that things just happen when you it's sort of like a it's sort of like a reward for spending your time to be there with the piece of work as you're developing it. You get this sort of gift of discovery, you know, just as a result, like, sort of like a payback of a sort. So I would say, yeah, get your get your conditioning up by building skill so that, so that it could help foster confidence. And you know, it can cause you to end up being prolific, you know, when you're making the work and so on and so forth, so, so I would say above, you know, how much money you want to make and or even how much recognition you're trying to get, put put skill building in front of it, and commit to getting better at developing your work.

Rodney  58:23

Yeah, I'm my phrase, Chase excellence not gold.

James Pate  58:28

Chase excellence not gold. See, see now, see now. My next interview is going to go Back to Rodney bill, not gold.