Saxophonist Michael Wilbur

Rodney is joined by Michael Wilbur, a saxophonist and founding member of the bands Moon Hooch and Thundersmack, to share his journey from aspiring astronomer to professional musician that's toured the world. We've also got a special treat from Michael at the end of the episode!

Follow Michael on all social media: @michaelwilbursax 

Transcript

Michael Wilbur  00:03

Whatever good you put into your instrument, it'll come back tenfold. If you want to be a professional, you have to put in that work, take it seriously. You have to be willing to fail over and over and be rejected, be turned down for gigs and get paid little to nothing and keep going. You just have to know that that's coming. If you want to be a professional musician, you have to have the grit.

Rodney  00:37

Hello, everyone. I'm Rodney veal and I'm the host of Rodney villes, inspired by podcast, and today, this is really a real treat for us, because this is someone I'm just learning about. So this is going to be a voyage of discovery for all of us. Michael Wilbur is a incredible saxophonist, because I did actually listen to his his sound online, but it's not the same as live. And there's a special treat that's coming, but he seems like one of the coolest guys on the planet who is living an embodiment of pure joy and energy, and his sound is infectious. And I love talking to musicians anyway. So Michael Wilbert, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so glad you are here. So okay, we got to do an origin story, because I know you're it's sad in your bio that you're from Massachusetts, but let's talk about not every kid grows up going we all have dreams of being other things. But did you dream of being a musician? Was that the like, you know, the childhood I'm going to be this as an adult sort of thing.

Michael Wilbur  01:44

So when I was a kid, I actually the first thing I wanted to be was an astronomer. I loved the planets and in outer space, and I wanted to, I wanted to, just like, look at it. And all the time, when I learned that that could be a job, I was like, that's what I want to do. I want to explore the cosmos, and it wasn't until later that I realized music was my path. I started playing saxophone when I was eight years old, and I was always really encouraged by my family and my friends and teachers, and I excelled quickly because of that. And I also took it up pretty, pretty quickly, too. But it wasn't until, you know, later in high school when saxophone became my main thing. I was doing marching band, Concert Band, jazz band, Wind Ensemble. I was, my whole life, was saxophone. You know, already at the age of 1516, I was doing all states, districts, those kind of things. And I was like, Well, this is already my life. And then people started talking about college and, you know, being able to major in music. And I thought, well, I love music, so why not give it a shot? So,

Rodney  02:57

okay, a lot of times musicians pick instruments or a pathway, but there is something about a saxophone that, I mean, what attracted you to it be the saxophone because it is come there's a sound that's unique to a saxophone, I think people respond to. So what was it about the saxophone for you? Well, that's

Michael Wilbur  03:16

exactly right. I mean, when I was when I was in fourth grade, all the teachers came into school with their respective instruments because, you know, they wanted the parents to rent instruments for their kids and continue growing the band program. And the guy playing saxophone, Angelo morlani, I just thought he was the coolest guy. And his sound and his swagger, everything about him was just it. And I was like, as eight and eight year old kid, I said, that's, I want to be like, That guy, you know, he was just the coolest one of the group. He had sunglasses on. He really played the part the sax player. Oh, okay, and yeah, he had the vibe. So I knew right away it was. There was no question. It was. It wasn't like, oh, maybe I want drums, maybe I want trombones, saxophone, 100% and I remember, still, like, I still remember the sound of the plastic coming off the Horn when I first got it, like, opening up the case, brand new sacks and and I put put everything on, and I and I blew into it, and boom, I made a sound. It was like magic. I was like, Whoa, blown away by it. And I just found love right away.

Rodney  04:27

I run away. I can't even imagine what that feels like that very first time. I mean, because, I mean I'm because I'm not a musician. I'm jealous of people who can actually play an instrument. I tried guitar. My mom was like, That's not your skill set. So I love you, but that's not your skill set. So like having that ability that sound, and I think that's probably reason why I became a dancer, because I just wanted to be in the sound, but I knew I couldn't produce the sound. And so when you have the power to produce a sound that's gotta make every day, you get up in the morning, go i. Okay, that's worth it. This is worth every day and everything. So did you, I mean, so you did music all during high school. Like, did you go and pursue music in college? I did,

Michael Wilbur  05:11

yeah, yeah. So for one year, I went to UMass Amherst in Massachusetts and studied classical saxophone, jazz saxophone performance. And then I wanted to be around, you know, bigger fish, so I moved to New York City and got my butt kicked there. You're gonna do

Rodney  05:30

that in the jazz clubs in the jail, okay? And

Michael Wilbur  05:32

I would go out every night to the, you know, they have late night jazz sessions every night there, which is amazing, seven days a week, multiple clubs still to this day, and you can just go in and play. It's free if you're a musician. So first for a jazz student, that was perfect, you know. And I was obsessed with with Coltrane and Dexter, Gordon, Sonny Rollins, all the, all the greats. So I was just about that New York jazz life, like every single day that was, I was dedicated. I used to practice in the subways, and, yeah, I wanted it. I just it was clear to me.

Rodney  06:07

So there was no plan B.

Michael Wilbur  06:09

There was no plan B, which I understand,

Rodney  06:12

because I dealt with my parents were like, yeah, what's your plan B? And I'm like, okay, okay, because I wouldn't, yeah, it's like, it never, you never really need the plan B. I always want to tell the people when they're telling their kids, like, there's don't the play, there's no Plan B, just plan A. Stick with it and see where it goes. So you're playing, you're playing the jazz because I've talked to one of our podcast guests was la phrase ski, and she is a percussionist. She's from Dayton, but she did the same thing that she described it exactly like, Yeah, you get your butt. Kid you going you go into those, those jazz clubs and those clubs in New York, and, man, once you start, did people like, Was it, was it welcoming? Or was it like, Okay, this, he's got to prove himself. Very

Michael Wilbur  06:59

much, like, he's got to prove himself. They call him cutting sessions, you know, like, and that's really the vibe. It's like you're getting cut down there, you know, and it sounds brutal. So sometimes people are cool, but it was pretty hard edged. Like, I remember this one time in particular, this older jazz drummer was down there, and we were playing beautiful love, I think was the tune. And, you know, I didn't know the tune very well, but I was, I was a little too brave sometimes, and I would just go play over tunes that I didn't really know. And I was like, I'll figure it out. Figure out the tune. I'll see what happens. And the drummer stopped the band middle of the song. He's like, That's not how it goes song. But I just kept going. I just kept going. And because I was in the middle of a solo, you know, and this drummer behind me is yelling at me, and it's an open jazz jam, so I was like, it's not like, I'm getting paid for this. I just kept playing. Because

Rodney  07:58

somebody, if it's like, it's a freebie, is like that, exactly, okay, exactly.

Michael Wilbur  08:02

There is a weird dynamic a little bit because it's like, Hey, man, I'm an 18 year old kid just trying to learn, you know, so, but anyways, it was a cool moment, because I didn't let it stop me. I could have stopped and been like, I'm sorry, and walked away with my tail between my legs, but I just kept going. I was like, Well, I'm gonna keep playing here with conviction. I think it even, like, boosted my conviction. And it was a cool moment, because the whole band dropped out. Now it's just a saxophone solo, you know, and I just kept going, and eventually they came back in. And it was awesome. The crowd applauded. And one of those

Rodney  08:37

moments where you like, okay, New York is not gonna kick my butt, but I am going to show you I'm still standing exactly, and that's that you got mad respect, yes, okay, okay. That is hilarious. I love it. I love it. So, like, so, so you cut your your chops, so to speak, your your teeth, and, yeah, in New York. And how long was that? Like that? A time frame. You're a young guy. I mean, I'm 60, so I'm a bad judge of age. So how so that New York like, well, grind gig,

Michael Wilbur  09:12

I lived in New York City for 10 years, but the the jazz club hustle, I was doing that probably three years, pretty soon into living in New York, I formed my band, Moon hooch, okay, which is my it's a trio, and I dropped out of school once we formed that because we started touring internationally, like pretty quick, pretty soon after forming The band, it was really pretty quick turnaround from being in so that's a whole nother story. I mean, well,

Rodney  09:45

no, I'm we're here. We got time curious. Like, you said, those pretty quick turnaround. So, like, I mean, you dropped out, like, because you were at the new university, the new school, new school. Yeah, were you studying music at the

Michael Wilbur  09:59

new school? Yeah, it's the. New School for jazz and contemporary music, okay, okay. It's on 13th Street in Manhattan. It was a great school. I studied with some incredible jazz legends there. But, you know, I was a broke college kid, so I needed, I need to make money, and I've never wanted it. I've never been good at jobs, okay, very bad at working for other people, service and not at all my thing. So, so, you know, I started playing in the subways, because in New York, you can really make money on the street as a musician. I would just go out there after school. I'd go any chance I'd get, I'd go to the to either Union Square or Washington Square, or any of the L train platforms and play, because that's where all the people were. And I'd make decent tips. So I was doing that a lot. And then I met my bandmates, and we started busking together. And basically, once we started busting together, we were playing dance music, kind of like housey jazz, kind of stuff, okay? And it just took off instantly, like it was like magic. The first time we played together, I think 200 300 people started dancing around us and throwing tips in where, like, that was my face, exactly happening this, really, yeah, and it was just unbelievable. And within eight months of us playing together, we were placed on a major Australian television show called Hamish and Annie's gap year, we were the house band for that. Within the first year, a scout saws. That's the beauty in New York. You know, it's like, you don't know who's walking around. You never do. Oh, my God, so and we were just out there eight hours every single day. We were once we saw that it worked. We were like, Okay, this is it. We have to just drill this in every day, no matter how we felt. So we were doing that, and we got put on this Australian show. And then this musical artist, Mike Doty, who used to be in a band, Soul coughing, picked us up and brought us on a national tour with his band opening. And that was kind of then I dropped out of school at that point.

Rodney  11:55

Well, that kind of makes sense, yeah, at this point, I jump on it, like, Well, I mean, I'm just saying your house band for an Australia show, a major band says, Hey, come tour with us. I would say that your planning is working. Yeah, right, right. So, oh my god, I'm like, so you guys, like, just, you just just literally hit the ground running and have not stopped. So how, how long have you guys been touring together as a band, because it's like, you got three albums out. And so I tell you, everyone, go play this music in your home. You. It'll inspire you to get to just have a good time and be creative and and just smile. I brought a smile on my face. So I mean, is that like, was that the the ethos was like, it wasn't like, you guys are going to, like, say we're going to play this moody, intense music, or, like, you have a choice. You could, yeah, choose to go one way, stylistically with a sound, but you chose a different kind of a sound.

Michael Wilbur  12:51

Yeah? So, I mean, so my band, Moon hooch, you know, we actually have, I think, eight studio albums, but Michael Wilbur, my solo project, just under my name, I have three full length albums. Wow, you Okay, so that's what, okay, yeah, so that's what it is. And, you know, I kind of went a different direction for my band. Basically out our band has been together 14 years, so at this point where we're focusing on our solar projects and kind of building other things while still maintaining the band, but my main focus recently has been the solo project and getting this music out here.

Rodney  13:25

Oh, man. So these are huge. Are you touring solo? Yes. Oh, wow, you got to get to Dayton. Okay, I'm putting it out there to the podcast folks like, okay, get get this guy to Dayton. And I know the person will talk later, like you need to talk to Libby over at Bright Side, yeah, she'll groove on you. Okay. Duly noted, I love, I love, yes, see, that's the other thing I love about doing this shows up. I get excited about like this and making connections. And so I love the fact that you made these connections in New York City. Like I just, I can't imagine the surrealness of it all going what? And then now you're on the you're in the world night. I saw clips of Moon hooch playing in a traffic jam in France. Is it just your spot? Maybe? I mean, how do you? Because that's not an easy thing to do. Like, did you? Are you guys all in sync in that kind of vibe of, like, let's go.

Michael Wilbur  14:27

Yeah, we were, we were, I mean, so that day we were sitting in that traffic jam for hours, like, something bad. We don't, we actually don't know what happened this day. You don't even know it was just like, miles down the road, bumper to bumper. So we're like, let's get out. Let's get out and play for these people.

Rodney  14:45

They were out there jamming. They loved it. It was like, I was like, There's something really cool about these guys. He's a cool guy, like, he's got this vibe and, and you talk about like, and that kind of use. There's something that was on a web. Page that talked about you just belief in the past, the power of the of possibility, like, just go for it. You've got a chance to do it. Do it Absolutely. Is that you're just like, you're like, how did you develop that personal mantra? Because it clearly, what do you I have to ask this question. We'll answer that one. But I have another question.

Michael Wilbur  15:19

Yeah. I mean, I started meditating, really, I'd say that was the catalyst for everything. Started meditating probably about 12 years ago, 13 years ago, regular, you know, every day, and just kind of being in that, that empty space, that space where anything is possible. And you you kind of start to notice like, Oh, wow. These thoughts are springing from nothingness. These ideas are springing from nothing. Is these feelings are springing from nothingness. What? What's possible, you know? And I just started realizing that the possibilities are endless and that I can really shape my reality if I can hold on to this, you know, positive energy and and express that through my music and my life,

Rodney  16:10

wow, was that, like the meditation was so obviously it's self guided. So you you just really, this is a conscious decision out of the nothingness. To say this is some element I need to tap in to, that creative source, which, yeah,

Michael Wilbur  16:25

yeah. I mean, you know, it's, that's a whole nother story. I mean, I, I grew up, I grew up religious, and then kind of went to school and learned about other religions and kind of saw the unity in all of them and started learning about Eastern philosophy and meditation and reading books. You know, most notably, a big change occurred when I when I read The Power of Now, by Eckhart Tolle. I don't know if you ever read, yes, I have, yeah, great book. Yeah, it is so that that really helped me. Yeah, just be in the present moment. And, you know, starting Moon hooch was really cool, because before that, I was playing a bit more esoteric avant garde jazz, and I wasn't really so much connecting with the audiences. It was more music for musicians. And once I started playing for people and seeing the joy that it brought. And like, if I brought that intentionality to it to uplift people and help them dance and bring joy to their lives, it brought me so much joy. So it was like this symbiotic relationship that I'm noticing like, Oh, if I do good, good comes to me and and that just,

Rodney  17:42

you know, it just keep multiplying. Say that to the cheap seats, because that's a really legitimate thing. You really, I mean, it was, that was my philosophy in doing the show and being a part of the station was had an opportunity to celebrate other artists, and these artists, the stories were going out nationally. And so I'm like, you know, it's a win win scenario. I get to have fun and enjoy and learn how to be on television. And they're getting their stories told about how they're making this incredible art, whatever the art form is. I'm like, I go, win win. And my phrase is always, it's a win win, yeah. And it's like, yes. And I get a big smile on my face, and then I go into the next thing. And so I, you know, and that's what, when you said, Eckert told us, like this power of now and being present is like recognizing that you're all of your actions do have a ripple effect, and if the intentionality of happiness and joy behind it begats more happiness and joy. Yes, and I think there's something, there's a joy in your saxophone playing. There is happiness. And so I'm kind of curious about, like, you know, because, because we, we, there's a whole group of folks who listen to the podcast, and we always try to, you know, I, I'm really because I'm a former educator, too, of like, parents, what would you tell parents, like, like, about like, because there's something they don't quite understand about the creativity. And so what would you tell a parent, because sometimes they get a little nervous. The kid says, I want to play saxophone, I want to be a ballet dancer, I want to be they go, oh. And it is always this sense of tension, right? So to speak towards that, what would you say to parents about that? Because your parents need to be parents seem to be pretty cool about the fact that you went, I'm all in on the saxophone, definitely. You know, they

Michael Wilbur  19:28

were cool with it. And, you know, I mean, for me personally, like my parents didn't have to push me much with it. I just loved it. So they were, they were pretty open. They actually had to tell me to stop playing sometimes, because it was just annoying. The crap out of them. I crap out of them, you know, I used to have to go to my closet and play. I just loved how loud it was, and I just loved making a ruckus, you know. But they did give me that freedom to they saw that it was positive, and they gave me the freedom to see, to see where it went. Yeah. So I would say just, you know, if you're a parent, definitely encourage your kids to explore and have fun with it, and I wouldn't put too much pressure on it in the beginning, because the reality is, it might not be what they want I see. So I'm also an educator. I teach saxophone and music lessons, and I see sometimes these kids that you can tell that their parents are just like, they have soccer, they have lacrosse, they have hockey practice, they have band practice,

Rodney  20:30

different things over produce your child. Okay, that's a thing I don't subscribe to. Yes,

Michael Wilbur  20:35

exactly. And then, and then, week after week, the kid shows up and they're unprepared. They they haven't practiced their their scales, I gave them or anything, and they show pretty much no interest in the saxophone. And I'll ask them, like, are you interested in playing this at all? And they'll be like, not really. It is like, something that the parents Yeah. And it's like the parents are pushing them to do. I'm like, you know, why do that? Why? Why have your kid do all this, this stuff? So I'd say, like, don't pile too much on. You know, when I was a kid, I basically just played saxophone, like I played saxophone, then just did whatever I wanted with my my friends, and played basketball and, you know, pick up games, and I was just a kid, you know, I was allowed to be a kid. So I think that's really important. But yeah, just, you know, the encouragement piece is great if you're if your child is into it, then and is actually showing interest, then encouragement. Just pour, pour gas on that fire, because that is everything you know. When I look back on my career, it really is the encouragement of my elders and my peers that helped push me along. When you're a kid, you're so sensitive to like how you're perceived, and it's scary, you know so but if your parents have your back and with something that you love, then that's one more. Can you ask me? And then if you have great teachers on top of that, it's really a path to success.

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Rodney  22:55

It was something that you said earlier that struck me, because I actually you know, you said Dexter Gordon. And I was like, oh, yeah, because I'm that I'm old enough, you know, like my dad was really into unions as a kid. I just would play every album. It was Jungle Book and everything else that was on the shelf, and the album selection, and Dexter was one of them, and Sarah Vaughan was another one. So, yeah, that gives you a hint of where my Oh, I'm like, Yeah, I I love music. It is He, you know, of all kinds. And dance music is a tricky genre for which, because I was listening, it was like, it says dance music, but it isn't. It isn't, I mean, I'm just out of curious, like, is that a label that you would describe it as, as purely dance music? Because, you know, you know, you always have to have a category, but I don't think, I think your music is defining a category, right? I don't think it's, it's purely dance music.

Michael Wilbur  23:59

No, it's not. And, you know, it's tough, because when you upload your music, I mean, your distributor has to choose a genre. It's you have to choose a genre, and they give you, they give you a really short list. And, yeah, it's really strange. It's like, jazz, hip hop, dance, electronic, country, R and B, you know? And it's like, how could I can't, like, I wish there was, like, a wheel, like a mixture wheel, the mission will, like, present this to, you know, right? A little bit of everything. And it

Rodney  24:28

is a little bit of everything. Yes, that's why I was like, says I was confused. I was, yeah, I'm moving to it is rhythmic, but it's more than dance music,

Michael Wilbur  24:37

right? It's also listening to music. It's depends on the song, right, right, right. There

Rodney  24:41

were some things I was kind of like, yeah, I could see choreography to this. Yeah. I could see a modern dance company saying, You know what, I really want this. You know, this is a part of a of a soundscape to movement too. So, so that's why I'm kind of curious about it. Because I don't, well, there are categories in other art forms too. So it's. Dancers, like they say, Oh, you're a ballet dancer. Well, you could be more than a ballet dancer, depending upon what the choreographer gives you. It's you can either dance or you can't. And that's, that's kind of been my mantra of my career. It's like, I don't understand why what you labeling me as a ballet dancer is going to somehow make it easier for you to digest what I'm giving you. I'm like, so I'm very confused by that. But I mean, does that confuse you? I mean, I was like, what you are? You just kind of like, okay, whatever. I'm gonna if this is the category must be. But how's your audience? What's your feedback when you get like, if you play, and I'm gonna ask you a question about playing in Dayton, but, but was, was audience feedback. Like, what do they tell

Michael Wilbur  25:44

you? Great. It's great. And, you know, so another thing about the dance piece is like, where I want to be, you know? And I want to be in spaces where people can dance. I'm not interested in so much in jazz clubs where people are sitting down and, you know, I want to be in a club scenario. I love clubs. I love the space. I love the, you know, that people feel free to get wild. You know, that's one of my favorite things about being a musician, is just playing to wild audiences and people just losing it, you know, like all everything out the window. I love that, because I think we need that in our society. And people get so wound up tight, you know? And it's like, it's a space where they can just let it all go. So, you know, I think the dance category, it's pretty broad. It's like music and dance do, that's how I think of it. So I don't know until, like, some, you know, until I get better advice, I think it's probably the best

Rodney  26:42

category I could find was serving you. So, I mean, obviously it's like, you know, but you are kind of genre busting. That's why I'm so confused. Like, I get confused by that because I know I don't, I don't understand, I mean, I understand it intellectually about, like, categorization, but when it comes to sound and music, especially where we're at now as a world, and you've been around the world, I mean, you've traveled the world, in Australia, France, like it's touring all over the you've toured the country, yes, clearly, and several other countries you Where have you not been? I guess is the question. I guess a easier question, yeah, I've,

Michael Wilbur  27:19

I have, I've yet to tour in Africa. That's definitely a bucket list. I really want to go to heaven. I want to go to Ghana, Ethiopia. I really love that culture, and especially the rhythmic aspect of the drumming over there. At some point in my life, I'd love to go there and study that music. I know people who've gone over there and learned by the phone and and some really cool instruments, I would just love that experience. I've also never played in South America or been to South America, so it's another place. I've been to Central America, but never South America. So that's, that's, that's high on the list as well. I've traveled to Asia for like, just for fun. I went to India and Nepal just for an adventure. But I haven't performed there. I've performed extensively all over Europe and, you know, Norway, all over Scandinavia. I mean, we've hit most of Europe with Moon hooch. I think we, I think I counted, we played probably, like, 35 countries as a band, something like that. Wow, yeah. So

Rodney  28:24

you are like, like, when, and so does the travel, like, that kind of travel. And the band is, you know, over time, and you have eight albums. Thank you for letting me, like, like, the evolution of sound like, like, when we come around dancers come around to other dancers, we start to pick up their style. And then is that, like, Is that the same thing, sort of thing, when you go to another country, you start to pick up a different vibe. Is that, does it? I mean, is it? I mean, does it happen? Okay, absolutely. I know we dancers do it for

Michael Wilbur  28:56

sure. So you know, for me, like traveling to Europe, especially going to Berlin and going to the techno clubs, and just like seeing the vibe and the yeah and it is just, it's so fun, so crazy. It goes all night long, and it's just the continuous beat. And I learned so much from just going and dancing in those clubs as a musician, I learned so much like how to keep an audience engaged, how to, like, get get people into a trance with the music and and it, yeah, it really changed me. Berlin techno helped shape, especially the moon hooch sound quite a bit, because before that we were, we were jazz musicians, kind of emulating electronic dance music, okay, but we hadn't really been in it fully yet. So we went to visit my other bandmates, brother in Berlin, stayed with him just to party for like a week and a half, two weeks, which we never, we would never do, and that was probably 12 years ago. So that really influenced me, quite. A bit those

Rodney  30:00

late nights, those late nights and those, for Americans, those are truly late nights. Yeah, this is not one of the situations where the party lights come up up two o'clock. It's late night. And if my parents are listening, yes, I did do all those things so very clear. Like, I'm like, make it be very clear. I'm like, I'm just telling them myself and but I felt that those were informative for me. It informed my vision of landscapes, because I felt like dancing choreography is landscaping. It's like creating a visual road map to a thought and an idea and an embodiment, and so you're creating the sound that creates the, like, the oral senses. I really use stimulate in oral senses. And so I'm like, like, Have you, have you guys ever, is anyone ever choreographed to your music, like, like, from a professional standpoint,

Michael Wilbur  30:53

yeah, we actually, we did a cover of my head and my heart by Ava Max, this pop star, and that was the first time we ever had, like, a full choreographed set YouTube videos. Pretty cool. It was like, I think it was like 12 dancers, rotating stage father was so much fun, and they just killed it. Oh,

Rodney  31:15

we're the Just Dancers for hire. Or was it a dancers for hire? Okay, yeah, would you guys film

Michael Wilbur  31:22

it? Oh, goodness, where was it? I don't remember. It was a southern state. I remember one of

Rodney  31:30

the southern states. No, it's all good. I'm just kind of curious, like, artist dancers were everywhere. You know, world, you know, the world's filled with art and creativity and artists, but that's got to be really that's getting pretty wild to see dancers and a choreographer interpret your sound. Did I trip you guys out that it was cool? Did was it? Did it? Was it a did you feel like it was a completely different interpretation of what your sound was versus what you because you know it is, we are kind of encroaching in someone else's Yeah, art form, right? When we use music, yeah,

Michael Wilbur  32:03

it was completely different. I mean, also it was just kind of funny, because it was a cover, and we usually don't play covers, okay? So it was, it was, it was definitely interesting. The dancers absolutely killed it. Absolutely killed it. Yeah, I had no expectations, so

Rodney  32:22

okay, and they just kind of, yeah, okay, I love it. I love it. So, you know, one of the questions, yeah, as we, as we wrap this up, is like, because we talked about parents, but I want to talk about our other artists, because I think a lot of times, because this is about inspiration. And what would you tell someone who wants to pursue this career in music? Like, what would be your advice? Like, from, from where you are now, you can look back and you know hindsight is always 2020, like, what would you tell someone who's young, who's got that fire in their belly to want to play that Saxo to make music and make a sound? Yeah.

Michael Wilbur  33:02

What would advice would you give them? I would say, you know, whatever, whatever good you put into your instrument, it'll come back tenfold. And with that being said, if you want to be a professional, you have to put, put in that work, you know, every day and just, just keep, keep going. You know, practice when you don't want to, you know, take it seriously, because it's, it's a dog eat dog world out there too. It's not, it's not, you know, for the faint of heart, the music world it you have to really be serious. You have to put yourself out there. You have to be willing to fail over and over and be rejected, be turned down for gigs and get paid little to nothing and and keep going, you know. So you just have to know that that's coming. If you want to be a professional musician, you you have to have the grit to get through it and also be willing to work other jobs along the way, because music doesn't always pay the bills. You know you have to, especially at first. You have to just, I mean, I know, I love the story of McCoy Tyner from John Coltrane's quartet, famous pianist. He He was a fry cook, even, even like in the beginning days of playing with Coltrane, like he was working in a kitchen until he really started touring internationally. So just the perseverance aspect of it, I think is so important to just persevere and, you know, expect adversity, because it's it's part of it.

Rodney  34:36

That's the best advice, I think, you like I've heard in a long time, and it's absolutely true. So I have enjoyed learning about you, and you're going to play for us, so that's going to be a part of the podcast as well, which I am so excited about. But thank you for taking time out to have this conversation. Thank

Michael Wilbur  34:52

you so much for having me absolutely you.