Brandon Ragland LIVE!

Rodney is joined by Brandon Ragland, Artistic Director of the Dayton Ballet, to discuss his journey and vision - emphasizing the importance of representation and mentorship in the arts. This episode was recorded LIVE at the Dana L. Wiley Gallery (feat. Mike Elsass) inside the Dayton Arcade on January 15, 2025.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Brandon Ragland, Ad, Promo, Rodney

Rodney  00:14

Well, hello, everyone. Welcome to the next edition of Rodney Veal's Inspired By live with an audience here at the Dana Wiley gallery at gather by ghost light. Thank you to the epic committee, and thank you to all of you wonderful people for braving the cold to be here. Super excited and the fact that this is a rescheduled yes podcast conversation, because the streets of Dayton were literally on fire. So we now know that the students today are hot, so it's a really exciting thing, but we rescheduled, and Brandon has been so gracious to be here. And so here's the introduction. Brandon Raglan is the artistic new, newest artistic director of the Dayton ballet as a part of the Dayton Performing Arts Alliance. He is, in my humble opinion, the most awesome, charismatic, kindest, most talented, intelligent, witty, sophisticated man, and not pay him to say, I am a fan. I am such a fan. And full full disclosure, I did serve on the search committee that ultimately selected him for the position to be here, and I'm so grateful for that journey and experience of getting here, and we'll talk about that a little bit in the podcast. But without further ado, the awesome Brandon rival you Yeah. So, okay, so Brandon, this is, like, this is your life kind of a deal. So one of the things I want to talk to you about is like, just go back. Let's go back in the very beginning. Was Ballet, the thing you thought you were going to do when you were a little boy,

Brandon Ragland  02:01

not at all what was on your schedule. I'm kind of so I was very much involved in basketball and soccer and Boy Scouts as as a young kid, and I stayed pretty busy between my church activities, basketball, soccer, gymnastics, but I always danced socially, and all of my friends, we always got together and did the latest line dances, the latest pop dances, all of that stuff. So that movement has always been a part of my life. When I started getting introduced to dance through church, through liturgical ministry. I wasn't quite sure what that meant. I just knew that it was movement, and I liked doing it. So my first dance teacher was over that ministry, and she kind of introduced me to movement. And of course, because I was a boy, she was very excited. She was like, Are you here to try out? And I said, I guess. And I was actually at church for a boy scout meeting that I we had gotten out early, we're going to talk about and I went downstairs, and I heard this music, and I saw these dancers dancing, and I thought, well, I can do that. And and started doing it. And my mom came downstairs. I mean, to this day, I have her reenact the face because she was a little bit in awe and in shock and in embarrassment because I was somewhere where I wasn't supposed to be. So from there, you know, it started to my first dance teacher, Jackie Lockhart, started to cultivate taking me to different dance workshops, the International Association of blacks in dance, the black college dance exchange, she started introducing me to, not only commercial dance with hip hop, and then concert dance and traditional dance. So I started taking African modern jazz ballet. And then when I started to get more involved in that and wanting to do more dance training, because I had made in my mind that I was going to be a backup dancer for Janet Jackson. So that's where I, that's where I, we all have, yeah, that's where I could probably still do all of the velvet rope to our choreography, because that's

Rodney  04:22

what, oh, I'm going to hold you to that. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Brandon Ragland  04:26

And so I was really looking toward the commercial dance, maybe modern, you know, growing up watching Dance Theater of Harlem and Ailey, you know, I had started to aspire to be a part of those companies and but I knew that I needed more technique and training, so I went to a school, and because I'm from Birmingham, Alabama, and there's a school there called the Alabama School of Fine Arts, and it has a math and science component there. It's considered. Fine Art. So that's where my parents wanted me to go to school for high school, but they wanted me to go for math and science. Oh, that typical. So I went edging your best. Yeah, I went there for math and science, but I would sneak away during my study halls. I'm saying this live on on the radio. Are you sure? Sorry? Was your mom or okay? So I would sneak away from study hall to go watch the dance classes, and kind of the same thing, I would be peeking through the window. And then finally, the one of the dance teachers said, Do you want to come in and watch? So then me coming in to watch turned into me getting up to do like warm up with them, turned into taking the whole class. And ended up switching my my concentration to to dance. So that's when I really started taking the serious ballet training and technique and and from there, I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the athleticism. I fell in love with the partnering aspect of it. I mean, it's much harder than what it looks like, and now it's very intriguing to me. So then I had, you know, going through high school, I made the decision, okay, I want to be a dancer. And then, you know what all every parent says, well, then what else are you gonna have to fall back on. So we went through the whole like college struggle. I didn't want to go to college. I wanted to try to go straight into a company. They were like, Absolutely not. So we made a compromise, and I ended up graduating from Butler University with a degree in dance arts administration, because I said, Well, I know that I'm I'm going to teach, that's always been a part of what I've wanted to do with dance is teach. But who knows, maybe I want to open my own studio or run my own company, so I'll take these business classes while I'm in college. So I That's why I chose arts administration. And then upon graduating, I danced with Alabama ballet. I went back home, danced with Alabama ballet for three years, and then went to Louisville and danced there as a as a leading dancer, for 13 years. And then upon retiring from the stage, I had been teaching a while. I had been choreographing. I had start, started to choreograph different ballets, and I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And I said, Well, I've always wanted to be an artistic director. That was like the top that was that dream, the dream, but in, you know, historically, to get to that step, you have to follow several different smaller ones. So I had my plan, and the year that I was retiring, all of a sudden there was a shift, which I'm sure we'll talk about, a shift in directorships of ballet companies there were, there was like a mass exodus of directors that had been in places for a long time, and there were all these openings popping up. And I said, Well, I kind of want to get the experience of of what that process is like. You know what? What are consulting companies. What are boards and organizations looking for when they select an artistic director? So I said, Why not I have this arts administration experience. I have teaching experience, I have choreographic experience. So I, I decided to put my name in the hat for several places, and got a bunch of no's, no thank you. We need someone with more experience. You're not quite what we're looking for, which is what you're used to as an artist or, you know. So then I get a an a text message from a friend of mine who used to dance at Dayton ballet, and I danced with him in Louisville, and he said, Dayton ballet is looking for a new artistic director, and this was towards the tail end of my interview process, so I had already decided, Okay, I've learned, you know, I've got an idea. Let me just kind of put that pipe dream aside, and I looked online and it had not been announced on the website yet. So I just emailed info@daneperformingarts.org I said, I know it hasn't been announced yet, but I heard that you were looking for an artistic director. Please let me know who to send my information to. And at the time that email went to Patrick Nugent, and he responded, yes, we are I, and it's me that you send the information to. I have it, and we will get back to you shortly. Right, but what I don't know if I did tell you, Rodney is saying, okay, the same consulting company that DPAA used, I had used that I had submitted my materials to them through other dance companies they were with, and they actually, at the same time, reached out to me and said, Have you applied to we think this would be a good fit for you. So universe, yeah, and I didn't know much about Dayton, and I knew about Dayton ballet, but I didn't know the history and the the richness of it that I do now. So of course, you know, my mind goes well, what what is in Dayton? And I said the same thing about Louisville too when I moved

Rodney  10:46

in. That is a legitimate question. That is absolutely

Brandon Ragland  10:50

so when I got here and went through the interview process, I fell in love with the organization and its mission, the people, the search committee, and here I am,

Rodney  11:01

second season, second season. And I can say this, from my experience, we fell in love with you, and I'm saying this publicly, but I remember distinctly, after your second interview with us, when you came to Dayton, you left the room, and we all turned into, like, little school kids, and went, oh my god, oh my God, he's so awesome. Like, wait, we still have three more interviews to go through. So we knew, I mean, they were you, you had made an impression. And, and it was such a delightful impression. I mean, it was such a positive, energetic, you had a vision. We were all these things. And so let's step it back. Because, you know, one of the things when we talk about leadership, and especially leadership in dance companies and arts organizations not traditionally run by people of color, let us be very clear about that. That is always the elephant in the room. And so let's talk about like your desire to wanting to be an artistic director as a person of color. What do you feel like were Did you see people that represented you in leadership? What inspired that notion that I want to be that leader in charge? Because,

Brandon Ragland  12:17

yeah, that's a very it's a very good question. I did not at the time when I started having the idea of wanting, or having that desire to be an artistic director, there weren't many. I uh, people of color in those types of positions. As I got older, and as I got into the professional industry and got into ballet companies, you start to see and you start to, you start to build a network of friends and, you know, oh, I know so and so they're the rehearsal director here or so. And so it's the assistant director here. And they begin to be, you begin to see that there is a large scope there, but it was far and few in between to get those experiences. And I had not seen someone at that, at that level, as Artistic Director. It's really hard to put into words, but something in me has always been I can do that. I want to do that, and I can do that. And my parents, I was, I was very fortunate and blessed that my parents always instilled in me that you can do anything you put your mind to. So even when I veered off to not being the accountant or I'm so glad an accountant, I'm glad too they, they instilled in me that putting in the work and and pursuing the dream and being the best at it. So I even though I didn't see much representation, I always had their support, and then I was also blessed to have the support of my my teachers, my coaches, my mentors, those that were really valuable in my training process were valuable to me because they said, Okay, you want to if your goal is to dance with American Ballet Theater, let's train you and get you there. Let's set you up an audition like they never made me feel like I couldn't. Now, other people did, but my support system, of teachers and coaches and family and friends, they were always behind me. So I've always had that support system to kind of push me through. So when that decision I made within myself to say, hey, I want to. Be an artistic director. Everybody was like, All right, let's go. Let's do it like let's you got to have a vision. You have to have this. One of my mentors, he sat me down as an artistic former artistic director himself, and helped me through that process to flush out what kind of company Brandon Raglan wants to run? Not, What kind of not, not me trying to fit into a company, but me bringing my vision to an organization's table and figuring out if it's a fit. And that was the mind changing for me, because someone was telling me, I can have ownership of this thing and not having to conform, not to something else squeeze

Rodney  15:48

you into the pre described notion of what a dance leader looks like an artistic leader, which is really important, because I feel like not we have to Have the diversity of leadership, we have to have the diversity of thought. We had a diversity of experiences. And I think there's something, and it's something, and we're going to jump around a little bit, because Brandon, it was so funny, because once Brandon was here, was like, I had a running buddy, so it was like, yes, Brandon's here. Let's have these conversations. Because as someone who danced, and I danced at Dayton ballet, I had that one mentor, and that was Gregory Robinson and Kevin ward. Also, I really did more than one. It was Kevin ward at Dayton Contemporary Dance Company, and we had an opportunity a couple months ago in October, it was an event sponsored by Ohio dance. I'm board president, and you know how that works, and so it was about dancing the American dream. But the panel was Brandon, Gregory, Robinson and Kevin Ward and myself. And there are four African American men at these different stages of their lives, generationally, in a leadership capacity and their art form, we all and we didn't realize it until we sat down and we looked at each other and went, Holy crap, yeah. And it just, it just makes your heart sing. And so, you know, they planted seeds of their excellence. And I remember, I remember Greg teaching me pottery over and under because he dismissed everyone in class and made me do it for 45 minutes. I will still remember that as a thing to this day, because he wanted to me to be an excellent dancer. He says, no excuses. If you don't know how to do something, you're going to learn how to do it right and to push yourself. And so mentorship matters. So what did you take from that? Other than I took it from like, like the aha moment. But what did you take from that, that meeting of the collective generational minds? So to speak?

Brandon Ragland  17:57

Well, you talk about we, we talk about diversity and how representation matters on all aspects and in all spectrums and perspectives, and being there and just me being able to nerd out with you All about classical ballet like that, in and of itself, we nerd. You can add any, any, anyone that has danced with me longer than five minutes, or any of my friends. You can ask them, I am what we call a complete bun head. I love the classics. I love classical ballet. I love contemporary I love it all, but I I dance history, ballet history, ballet pedagogy, teaching it like getting that's the conversations that I love having. How do you teach something? How do you how do you program? How do you coach things different ways. It's I am being able to talk, especially with with Greg, about that, and just us going back and forth is is amazing. And again, you're talking about planting those seeds and and also learning that Greg is from Alabama, and I'm from Alabama, and so those seeds, I knew exactly where he danced, where the origins of, you know, UAB ballet and ballet Alabama, and he was a part of that. So now I'm meeting someone that looks like me. That was a part of something where I'm from, that I took that, that I was the result of his hard work, if that makes sense, and that, for me, was seeing it live in person, and getting to converse with him is it's like we talk about legacy, right? It's I'm stepping literally in footprints of people that have gone before me to clear a pathway, and it it makes sure. It. It makes your desire, it makes your vision, it makes your goals clear, because you you see a pathway, and it's, it's not always easy and it's not always simple, no, but if you know that someone has gone through it and you're able to connect with them, they will help you get through that process, and

Rodney  20:21

that was, that was my experience with Greg, because Greg was, is one of the most phenomenal choreographers. He just his musicality, and I just sat there in awe watching him create this movement. My favorite ballet of his is sweet Aretha, and he did it, yeah, he created a ballet to have music from Aretha Franklin. And it was, it was so sunny. No boys, wah. I was like, Dang Nabbit, can I dance in this? And I can't. I'm like, oh, you know, and I'm watching, like, so lucky. They're girls. They're so lucky. But realizing that that's what I kind of wanted to do. I wanted to craft movement. I wanted to create movement in space. Because I was a visual artist, I started my parent that was my head, you know, the bats that and political science that made my parents very happy, by the way, but they were very confused when I said, Now I'm dancing ballet. I think your mom probably had the same reaction. My mom did that look of like these three different reactions, and it just gets into concern, yeah, so kind of curious about now, like, you know that process you went through the process of us interviewing you, and you taught a class with the dancers, and now you're here. I'm very curious, because we have not talked about in a why in a minute, because you've been super busy. How's it going? How do you see what the work you're doing? How do you feel about the work that you're doing, not taking spot in front of your boss? But that's okay. No, I

Brandon Ragland  21:53

feel, I feel, I feel great about the work that I'm doing. It's hard work. It is, it's constant work, it's fulfilling work, it's frustrating work, tough work. And it's been a, it's been a learning curve for me because to to, I mean, again, fortunate that I was able to make, make this leap into my dream job, but that also comes with a learning curve. And there, there is a lot that I'm learning. There's a lot of Pitfall, blind spots that I see. And that's also the beautiful thing too, because it's there's some things that you know, that I didn't do quite as well last year, that I'm like on top of this year, but then you're learning other things and and deadlines to meet and multiple things to think about, and you know, a school that you have to oversee and The learning and community. And you know, it's not just the thing about being an artistic director is so much of it is the programming, and you're in charge of the artistic product. But that artistic product spans like so many different directions, and what I'm learning that learning curve is getting your brain to be in those different spaces at any given time. Because it's, it's not like you have the convenience to say, Okay, now I can think about this. Now I can think about this. No, it's like I have to think about this. And that don't forget about this behind me. Oh, in the thing next week. Oh, in the thing two years from now. We have to start talking about it. Now there's so much administrative things as well, which I'm like, Thank God I actually paid attention in arts administration 101, after rehearsals all day, because now it's, it makes life a little easier. It makes life a little easier. So it's, you know, some things are trial by fire, but I, again, I have the support of friends and colleagues that have been very helpful to me in the process. So when I don't understand something or or need to learn how to formulate a spreadsheet. I can do it pretty quickly, because someone can help me out, and then I got it after that, after

Rodney  24:27

you get that one how to make an Excel spreadsheet is like a thing Well,

Brandon Ragland  24:30

and that's the thing about dancers too. Because I always say dancers make the best employees, because we're so used in our training to be able to learn something, and then we pretty much have to show that or implement those corrections and critiques very quickly. So usually in any type of work setting, if we need to learn something, then our brains are wired through our training to be able to say, Okay. I have to do that. I'll do that for next time, and I can implement it pretty quickly. So that is also why I tell the students that we have that dance, even if you're not a professional dancer, that is going to help you in all aspects of life. And I can, I can say it even more confidently now being an artistic director and an arts administrator, because you're having to learn things, and you don't, you don't really have the time, so to speak, you know, I don't have a year to get it right. It's some things, you know, like, I don't have a year to not mess up the budget. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I can't those bills. I have to write, and you have to, you have to capture those things pretty quickly and learn, oh, okay, I didn't plan that out correctly, but I have to make sure the next time we do it that it's right. Copious

Rodney  25:53

notes, I'm telling you and and I'm glad you said that about dancers and that ability, because I think that shocks people, because that was one of the things. When I took the job I have now, they were shocked that I'm that I will just keep working until I get it right, yeah, and I won't stop. And they're like, and that was actually said to me. It was like, Are you prepared to work harder than the people that you are working with? I said, it's not my problem. No, I love them dearly. They're awesome people. It's not my problem and so, but I want to enhance what we do. So it's, I don't think, do you think that that also helps in I feel like dance helps us navigate those personal relationships with people absolutely in a different way. Like, you know, a lot of people come in with agendas, but dancers are like, let's we got to make this work. There's nothing it

Brandon Ragland  26:41

is. Again, it's a part of how we train. And I always tell and I tell dancers too, that it's also very similar to playing sports when you're with a team, like when you're working and when you're training with a team, it's no different, I think with dance, where the added benefit is, is that when you get into the professional realm, you constantly have to Be in vulnerable and open positions in choreography, in in working with the choreographer. And it is ballet is like a family, because you don't necessarily get to choose all members of your family, right? Like, and it's the same with the company. Like, we don't, as a dancer, I don't get to pick which dancers I want. Like, we we are selected, and we have to work together and so, and it's like a family where sometimes you're going to get irritated, you're not going to see eye to eye, you're going to argue at one moment, you're, you know, but you have to sort those things out. And at the end of the day, there's a product that has to be made, and we have to make the product. So that translates and into the workforce, where it's like, you have to get things done.

Rodney  28:05

Diplomacy, the diplomacy, yeah, that was, that was the thing that surprised me the most, that I had to navigate, that I was, I was not anticipating that, because I was, I was coming into the dance world from the visual arts background, which is, as a visual artist, you're usually working by yourself, and so it's very solitary, but then you get thrust into this world of it, right? It matters that the person playing the piano likes you, because they could really mess you up with tempos. I found that out.

Brandon Ragland  28:34

I mean, diplomacy is the is a really good word to use in that instance, and respect, because it's not really about always liking what you're having to do, but if you have respect for the art form, or respect for whatever it is that you do, then you're gonna you're gonna make and put your best foot forward to make that happen, because it's about respect for the art form in in, in my case, and it's, it's always very interesting, because as we, as we navigate the space outside of the studio that I'm learning, all of that matters as well. You know, it's, it's so much, so much of my job is outside of the studio, sometimes more than I would like it to be, but it it's necessary, because it's about creating relationships with with the community in which the organization resides. You know, we talk about bringing, bringing people into the family. And that's what that means, is, is, is being able to be forward facing, which is not necessarily in my nature. I know everyone's like, you're a dancer. You dance on stage, like, there's like a fourth wall there, right, for people to lights

Rodney  29:56

and then, yeah, and you're all in the dark, you know? Like, Thank God, you know, but

Brandon Ragland  30:02

this position requires getting out there and being in the community, and then especially being in a place that I'm not very familiar with, that that was something that I knew I had to to learn fairly quickly, right? And, yeah, when I arrived, I told Patrick that, you know, take me wherever you want me to go, to talk to whoever I need to talk to, to be a part of whatever I need to a part be a part of. And he took my word for it. So I think that those type of learning situations and being a dancer, to be able to adapt and implement quickly, has really helped and been a benefit for me. Patrick's told this story too, but it goes to the mindset of a dancer when I first got to the job. He said, Brandon, I would like for you to write me, you know, a three to five year plan, some goals and what you want to get accomplished in the first 90 days, in the first year, in the first three to five years. I said, okay, and and in my head, I'm thinking, Oh, he needs this pretty quickly, because maybe he needs it for something. And I had it. I remember I had it to him by the end of the day that day.

Rodney  31:25

But also Brandon, that's what I love about you. It's like you were like, I'm getting this. I'm like, Oh, yeah.

Brandon Ragland  31:31

But a part of that is to the other level of that is that I had a mentor who was guiding me to think that way already, so that when someone said, Well, what is your three to five year plan, I could like an elevator pitch, like it's ready.

Promo  31:53

I'm Bonnie miles, membership coordinator of CET. Thank you for listening to Rodney veils, inspired by this podcast is a production of cet and think TV, two local PBS stations as PBS stations, the work we do online, on air and in the community is supported by listeners like you. If you're enjoying the show and would like to support our work, please consider becoming a member at CET, connect.org or think tv.org plus when you sign up to donate at least $5 a month, you'll get access to special members only streaming videos on the PBS app through passport. Learn more at CET connect.org or think tv.org If you're

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enjoying this conversation, the art show, also hosted by Rodney veal, is available to stream anytime from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app,

Rodney  32:42

and I can say that from the interview process, that's what got us all giddy, like school kids, once you left the room, we were like, he has a plan, he has a vision. It was like, it was so clear and it was so distinct, and it was, I just find that, really, I just found that I found that utterly, like, shocking and refreshing, you know, because you, you're very youthful in appearance, I will say that, as someone who's turning 60, that it belied this notion that, like, Oh no, that's Don't, don't, don't be fooled by the facade. There's a lot there. And you had a really creative vision too. And you kind of, I do have this question, because we were an interview when you we had an interview the first day, and it was very formal when we did our things, and you worked for the dancers, and we had our exit interview on the second day. I felt in my mind that you went from the first day, and you must have had a come to Jesus, Buddha Allah moment, and you came up with something, something, it was already fabulous, but it didn't. It went to the next level. Did you kind of something just clicking? You like, like, you were like, Oh

Brandon Ragland  33:51

well, this was the last

Rodney  33:55

ask a question. I'm so happy.

Brandon Ragland  33:58

This was the last interview process that I had gone through, that I was going through, you know, like I had in my mind that if this, you know, if this didn't work out, I knew that I was going to pursue full time choreography and teaching at the Louisville ballet school. So I, I think it was the I remember waking up and and just, you know, kind of saying, put it all out there and put there was a realization of the work that I had put into it, the support that I have from from my friends and colleagues. And it just kind of helped push me to say, You know what, I am capable of doing this, and even if it, it may not be the right time, but in my mind, I I knew, I know it's gonna happen, and that's what, and that's what I went into that kind of last interview with, kind of like, okay, I put it all out. Out there, lay my cards out, and I'm okay walking away if it doesn't work out, because I know it will sooner or later. Mm,

Rodney  35:07

I love that, and that's that.

Brandon Ragland  35:12

Now, mind you, I had to keep reminding myself that, because if you remember from the from the last interview process to when I was offered the job was time, you know, there was a good as it was needed Absolutely, because I was because we had three more people to interview. We really did have another. So it wasn't like an audition where you just have to, like, sit and wait, like, keep telling yourself, well, you know, if it doesn't work out, that's okay, but secretly you're like, Oh my God, just need to know something,

Rodney  35:38

and I'm sorry. I hope we didn't torture you too long. It's normal torture. That's normal torture. Okay, okay, I'm glad it was a normal torture. So I have this request so you've, like you said, You've been here. I know you've talked about because if anyone has had a chance, he had this season was Kellie, and I know you had talked about that, I want talk to me about. Is that your favorite ballet? I think we talked about this,

Brandon Ragland  36:05

one of my surprisingly favorite ballet. Okay, why?

Rodney  36:08

Why is this surprisingly one of your favorites? Because it's the the

Brandon Ragland  36:12

story. Like, once you dive into it, it's such a good story. It's funny, like, there aren't very many comedic ballets. So the version that we brought to Dayton was originally done in Louisville by Robert Curran, who was the former director there, and I it was his first full full length that he choreographed. I mean, after, you know, petty pie and the Lebe and he, he, I played Fran, so I got to be a part of that process and the storytelling and the in the funny moment. And so it just grew to be one of those ballets that, because I was there at the beginning of that, that particular production, I yeah, it has a special place in my heart, because it was, it was his first official year, because he came and then that his first year, the season was already planned as it's, it's pretty standard and ballet company, so that Next season was his fully programmed season, and we were doing Kellie, and so it was, it was like a fresh start for both of us in that sense. So it was, it was a really unique opportunity, and it was fun. It was a lot of fun. So even bringing it here, memories of how that process was going, and seeing, seeing Robert work with the dancers and and and the funny moments and the aha moments they were having with him, I remember. And so I Kellie has always been, since that moment, one of my favorites that I've performed, for sure. So

Rodney  37:58

in that process, you tell you, you touched on this in memory a lot of times. I don't know if it's different now I'm aging myself, but when we were reconstructing ballets, it was always someone who didn't there wasn't a video machine, there wasn't a videotape. They were teaching us choreography from memory. Was so was Robert doing that same thing? Was he? Was he let me refer to the tape, or was he going

Brandon Ragland  38:24

at the beginning? Yeah, I'm kind of curious about the prior preparation. He He notated a lot of things, and he has an impeccable memory when it comes to choreography, and so he referenced the video before he would get to the studio. But most of the time, he was doing it from memory or from his notes that he would that he would take,

Rodney  38:51

it's a, that's a, it's a real special skill. I mean, it's like, and I just remember being taught by people who like, yeah.

Brandon Ragland  39:01

Well, also because it's in your body, right? Yeah.

Rodney  39:04

And I never leave your body. It was a principal

Brandon Ragland  39:06

dancer at Australian ballet for 1314, years. So he, um, he's danced those ballets probably a bajillion times. So some of that just never leaves your body, right? You know, even when he was rehearsing, I remember things as he was, you know, because I helped stage some of the Franz, who is the lead male dancer, some of his material, I went ahead and taught. And it was just, I remember certain things in my body, and you just, you recall that, and you referenced the video. But a lot of things that are when you go through the process like that, like where you're you're in it, and you're rehearsing it over and over again, it just sometimes comes from muscle memory.

Rodney  39:51

Yeah, it really does. And it never leaves you, yeah, it really doesn't. I remember one of the things I'm kind of curious about that with that process, because you and. The resume, because I did some digging, because you've performed in Balanchine works, and I've had that experience as well of dancing and Balanchine works. I was always amazed by the people that restaged Balanchine works, that they were really that conversation about muscle memory, talk about why Balanchine's work is so important in the ballet canon, because I don't think a lot of people, people see ballet, they go Nutcracker. They think, oh, it's the two twos. But there's something very different about Balanchine's role in ballet.

Brandon Ragland  40:34

Well, George Balanchine, here's my nerd out moment.

Rodney  40:37

Nerd now, there we go, George Balanchine

Brandon Ragland  40:41

is, I mean, arguably, but most definitely, one of the American pioneer choreographers. I mean, he created what is now New York City Ballet. But the School of American Ballet was, is what we considered the American approach to ballet technique. So you know, quick history, you have your you have your Vaganova technique. You have your chick Kellie, you have your Royal Academy. Those are all Russian, Italian, Italian, Danish and British and the and Balanchine came from Russia, and he loved American culture, and wanted to start a school here, which, if you think about most companies in America, they all started with the school day in Ballet came from the school. So that was a very important thing to him. So he was known for his for his choreography, because it was he took the production out of it, which is very challenging, but he he, what we would say, stripped down the costumes. A lot of his costumes are very simple, but when you think about it, when you're starting a school or when you're starting a business, or whatever it's, you know, slim trims, right? Not a lot of money there. With a lot of Balanchine works, there aren't a lot of sets and costumes, definitely not a lot of sets. And he is considered the American choreographer because of the quickness of the footwork, of the musicality, very musical. And so when, when, when, when Balanchine created these ballets. I mean, he has over 100 ballets, and you have to be a licensed stager to stage them. And it's always interesting, because different stagers can stage the same ballet, and they remember something different that they call a, Mr. B, you know that Mr. Balanchine said to them? And it could be both valid. But the one thing that doesn't change is the musicality and the and the approach to the footwork and and the technique of it, which is still challenging. 90 years later, I think, as I think, sab just celebrated their 90th birthday and City Ballet 75th birthday. So 75 years later, those ballets that he choreographed are still some of the hardest and most rewarding for the dancers.

Rodney  43:24

And I think rewarding, yeah, and because

Brandon Ragland  43:27

it's pure movement, it's just all about the movement. There's no set, there's no, you know, huge costume. It's literally he made dancers, make the music, make the music, movement through music to then be felt through the audience, which is why a lot of dancers love dancing. And

Rodney  43:47

I remember what it was really interesting at the Dayton Valley School, if you ever get a chance to go in the building, in the space is the portrait still. There is a photograph of George Balanchine to the Schwartz sisters saying, Thank you for keeping dance alive in the region. So he was here. He was in Dayton, Ohio. He was encouraging these two pioneering women. And the Dayton ballet is actually older than New York City Ballet folks. It is actually really older. So it's this notion of Americana, and he was, like of the companies, I got the impression he was his influence. It was another example. Just like Greg and Kevin they planning, he planted a seed that we are living under the shade of, right? And so you're here, and I'm kind of curious, what was your favorite Balanchine ballet, because I know what my favorite is. Oh, put you on the spot because I really want to, kind of, I'm kind of curious. It's 100 by the way.

Brandon Ragland  44:49

Oh, man, okay, wait, I have to do like to perform, or just period,

Rodney  44:56

your choice, either or I. Okay,

Brandon Ragland  45:00

or both. One my favorite that I have performed, if I had to pick one, is square dance. I performed that Robert's first season as well. That was my first at Louisville. That was my first principal role in a Balanchine ballet. Although I I have Sarah not is always a favorite, which is funny, because there's very few male parts in that, but I've gotten to dance all of those roles at different points. So Sarah not holds a special place, and then I'm a I'm a sucker for jewels. That's probably my favorite. Okay,

Rodney  45:39

huh? My favorite, my personal favorite. I've never performed it. I learned it. I learned it as because I was, you know, that's the way it was. The it was cast. Was concerto, Bucha, okay, concerto was, is one of my favorite ballets. It is, I to me, I was like, Oh, that double violin concerto is, well,

Brandon Ragland  46:02

in a lot of it, yeah, he's so beautiful. And he has his

Rodney  46:07

only guy, only guy, yeah, only one guy.

Brandon Ragland  46:10

And he comes in happily partners and leaves and leaves.

Rodney  46:14

His only role is to support the girls. But I love it's visual, and I love it so so of I know that we, you know, bringing Balanchine into the rep. What I'm asking this question, even though it's been a podcast, what's your ideal Balanchine work to incorporate into the Dayton Valley repertoire now? Oh,

Brandon Ragland  46:35

man, I have so many. I mean, number one, just so you all as a community, know that the treasure that you have here, I the dancers, that the unique thing I always say about dance companies is that that's that's a little bit different from an orchestra or an opera, is that most of the time the dancers plant roots where they perform. So a lot of all of the dancers are here year round, and they set roots here. Several dancers have families here. They have decided to make their lives here, and they are truly some talented artists. What the art, the level of artists that you all have in this community, is top tier? And of course, I would say that being biased, but I've heard that from stagers that have come here, Robert, when he was here, you know, him being my former boss. Now, me kind of being his boss was always interesting, and it was great. But, you know, he is someone that, I mean, he was in Australian ballet So, and he knows what good dance looks like, and to see him work with the dancers and get excited so compliment, and he loved working with them. Loved working with them, and they they just really soared. So I there's really no limit to what the potential here that we can do so in terms of Balanchine, you know, there's, I'm just throwing it out there. There's so many. I have so many, many ideas. I would love to see this company do emeralds. I think it would be fun. Beautiful concerto. Barocco is another one. Square dance is another one, because there's a lot of like energy within the dancers here right now, so excited

Rodney  48:45

about these ballets. Just, I'm we, like I said, we nerd out on this, this, this notion of that. Yeah, so I you did work with one of my favorite choreographers with the ballet Dayton ballet, and that was Adam Hogan. Oh, yeah. Oh, folks, please bring it back. Adam

Brandon Ragland  49:01

is a good friend of mine, and there's I mean another when you when you talk about choreographers that you've worked with as dancers and respected and loved to for me to be able to bring one of my favorite works of his here, and to see him work with the dancers and and, and see them grow in that process was pretty amazing. And, I mean, I mean, there's, there are several, as I say, several Hoagland ballets that are on my list. So,

Rodney  49:36

see, I'm excited about that stuff. That's what I'm really excited about, because I know that that's he you care so much that he's not going to just settle, that you're not going to just settle for anything on the company and for our community. You're really going to push us. And I'm hoping that the audiences have been I feel like the audiences have embraced the fact that you've pushed us. They've been so supportive of these. Changes. This is this point so far. Yeah, this journey. And so how does it feel? I have to ask this question. How does it feel to have your your dream job? It

Brandon Ragland  50:08

feels amazing. You know, with all the i i can't i can't really complain, because I the things that I get to nerd out about, I nerd out about them. I mean, to be able to look at an artistic plan and and and be a part of that process. To talk to these choreographers, I mean, to be on a dance USA call with other artistic directors that you've literally watched dance grow growing up, and they call you by name and tell you, congratulations. Is there anything I can help you with. And you're looking at the screen like, I've seen several videos of you in concerto Broco or secret in Swan Lake, and here you are telling me, like, well, give me a call. Here's my phone number, and then

Rodney  50:53

well done. You know, you know my name, yeah, it's, it's sometimes

Brandon Ragland  50:57

it, I know it sounds I don't want to make light of the job, but it is. It's sometimes it is a dream, because it's something that I have, a spite that I was aspiring to be, but didn't think I would get here in the time frame that I have. So it's, you know, and still a little googly eyed. I guess you could say with, you know, with all of the challenges, that there's definitely some challenges and hard times and frustrations that I have, but I I do. It's, it's like I was when I was dancing. I wake up in the morning and I actually get to go to a job that I love. And not everybody can say that. So that's always my my reminder.

Rodney  51:44

I love it, and so I always think about this is this podcast goes out to so many people, not not that we're like number one on Spotify or anything, because we're not, but people do listen, and they do pay attention to what's being said. And my curiosity is because it's inspiration. It's about inspired by what would you tell a young person who's thinking about dance and their parents? What would you say because you're on this side of the fence of it? What would you tell them right now about any apprehensions or concerns about entering the world of dance as a profession.

Brandon Ragland  52:26

It's kind of layered, but No dream is too big. Continue to stay open to what that dream could be, and that the road to that dream isn't linear. So, you know, just basing off of my experience when I was young and my my first dance teacher, I call her. She's my dance mom, Miss Jackie. Shout out to miss Jack we all have a miss Jackie, don't we? I remember. She remembers this story. I think clearer than I do, but I remember it. I remember because she was responsible for helping me see how productions work. So we did a black history program at church every year, and it literally packed. I mean, we did 345, nights, sold out, and she was a professional dancer, professional theater artist, so she ran rehearsals like that. So we had tech week, we had lights, and I remember calling her one day and saying, how do you do all this stuff? Like I didn't know what the word I didn't know the term choreography. I didn't know producer, I didn't know director. And I think she's, I think I was about 13 or 14 years old, and, and she said, What do you mean? And I said, this stuff, the lighting, telling, I think I said telling people what to do. And she said, Oh, you mean producing the show. And I say, yes, as and I said, I want to do that. I want to be able to do what you do. And then it was from there that she mentored me in that process. And then when I got older, when I moved back to Alabama and danced with Alabama ballet, she said, All right, here you go. So that was actually my first being able to produce that black history program. Was my first diving into looking at a production as a whole, right? Which is exactly what an artistic director does. You have to not just look at the dancing, but the full artistic product. How are the lights shining on the dancers? Do we never have shadows on their face? Is the set looking a little bit off? Are the soft goods wrinkly like do they need to be? You're looking at everything and and a lot of times by when you're getting to that point on stage, the dancing already has to be at a certain level, because I'm not even looking at them half the time by the time we're in the theater, because I'm looking at everything else. I'm listening to the orchestra I'm talking to, to. Heel. You know, we're conversing. Is it too slow? Is it too fast? Is there anything? Oh, that didn't sound quite white, you know, I'm talking to the stage manager. Hey, that call, that lighting cue call was a little bit late. Can it be earlier the curtains too slow, or the curtains too fast? So being able to look at those things like the and I tell the dancers this too, while they are my priority and I'm their number one cheerleader, they are a part of a bigger picture that they are. They have to be. I have to have them at a certain level before we even get into the theater. Because when I get to the theater, I'm looking at everything else, wow.

Rodney  55:44

But that's, that's the reason why you're the perfect person for the job. Yeah. Oh no. No more than AB, you're modest. You're modest. And so Brandon, I am super excited about where you're going in the future with Dayton ballet. I'm glad you're now a daytonian, even though it's by, you know, moving here, you're just an awesome guy. And so thank you for sharing your story with an audience.

Brandon Ragland  56:12

Oh, thank you for having me. It's been great. Totally,

Rodney  56:15

my pleasure. Always, always, now we get to go to dinner. Thank you.