Artist Tiffany Countryman

Rodney Veal interviews artist Tiffany Countryman, the engagement and learning coordinator at the Human Race Theater Company, about her journey from producing her first play, "I Wish I Had a Daddy," to the importance of starting small, being patient, and staying true to one's passion.

Learn more about the Human Race Theatre on their website: https://www.facebook.com/humanracetheatre/

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Rodney Veal, Promo, Tiffany Countryman

Tiffany Countryman  00:00

What we do day to day, project to project, the people that we meet, day in and day out. That's the journey, because once we get there, it's all over. We have nothing else to do but just say, I'm here. This is, this is the life that I dreamed of having, that I'm journeying in right now.

Rodney Veal  00:16

You hello everyone, and welcome to Rodney Veal's Inspired By - a podcast where I get to talk to some of the interesting folks, not only in the Miami Valley and Cincinnati and southwest Ohio, but the country and the world a little bit. And this one this I'm really excited, because I don't know a lot about this guest, but her credentials and her joy and her spirit clearly invade everyone, because everyone I've spoken to about about her has said you need to have her on the podcast. And so yeah, there's a lot of love for you Tiffany countryman. And Tiffany Countryman is the engagement and learning coordinator for the human race theater company, but she is so much more than the black and white of a resume, and I am super excited about that, and I just got to witness some of her creativity and action A week ago, and I just really want to have this conversation. So without further ado. Tiffany countryman, hello,

Tiffany Countryman  01:28

hello. Thank you so much for having me, Rodney, and thank you to all of those who have good things to say about me. I'm so honored to be on this podcast talking with you today. Oh, it

Rodney Veal  01:39

sounds good. And you know, that's always a good feeling, right? That if people are like saying your work and your reputation is gold and it's solid, that's always a good thing. And so, you know, and I was, like, so intrigued by and thing is, like I said, I was telling, you know, the beginning, that there was a production, we'll get to that in the conversation. But I am just so curious, like it. You've been in this position at the human race for two years, five months. I love that. I love how it's like, yeah, it feel, you know, it feels, still feels like a blink of an eye, but you are making such an impact, and you're making such inroads within the organization. But I am curious, how did you get into this pathway, because there's so many other skills that you possess. What started this journey?

Tiffany Countryman  02:28

Well, about two or three, well, actually three and a half years ago, Kathy, who's our executive director and Emily, who's our artistic director, reached out to me via the board president at that time for me to be a member of the board. They've heard about me in the community. I've written and produced four of my own original works down at the convention center, the Dayton convention center. So they heard about my little underground artistry that I had going on, and wanted me to come and be a part of the board. So I was a part of the board for about a year, but this position was created, and Emily reached out to me and asked if I would apply for it. I applied, I interviewed, I went through the entire interview process, and I was selected, and that's how I became the engagement and learning coordinator.

Rodney Veal  03:16

It seems like this was the perfect fit, and so you talked about being a little underground in a theater, and doing that was theater your prior like, do you know, I'm saying, like, you know, some people say to themselves, I'm going to be this thing. No, I'm going to be in the arts. So how did you get involved in theater? I mean, if that gives that your if that wasn't the main thing, because I get it, I come from, you know, arts background ended up being a dancer. So what does that? What? Wow.

Tiffany Countryman  03:44

Well, for me, my degrees in communications, and with that degree, I went into HR, so I was actually working in Human Resources at a local medical facility here, when I produced, when I wrote and produced my first play. So my first play was titled, I wish I had a daddy. And that came about because I was going to therapy, you know, trying to figure out, you know, childhood trauma, you know, big T's, little T's, all those good things. And my therapist, at the time suggested that I would write letters to my dad about why I was hurt, how I was disappointed, what happened here? What happened there, and then burned them. But as I began to write, come to find out, it kind of was like a story, it was like a play. So I said, Well, I want to put this together. Imma produce a play. Um, I had some artistic connections because I grew up in the church, and the church world is where we know a lot of musicians, a lot of you know, different artistic endeavors. So I started there in ministry, and used my storytelling as another ministerial tool, and that kind of evolved into community theater that now has me a professional theater.

Rodney Veal  04:59

Oh, my God. But that's what it's so, so fascinating, because it's like, this whole notion of, like, you know, you're trying to work through trauma. You try to work through, you know, I love, I love, you said, big T, little t, we all and the thing, and we all have it, and that's, that's an important thing. And, like, sometimes we think it's not a tool, like, you know, the you know, and it's kind of a weird way to think about it, but it really is. It's a tool that you could use to be creative, to kind of, I love how you said it's story. Like ministry is storytelling, absolutely, and I feel very strongly about that. It was like one of our, you know, one of our gyms, and the gym city is Bing Davis, Willis Ben Davis, you know, he originally was destined, he was supposed to be a preacher. Wow, I did not know that he was trying. And so he was gonna, he was gonna follow in his uncle's footsteps. But then, like, he sees his art as a ministry, and so, I mean, so you kind of challenge yourself to kind of be this playwright. Like, it's like, did you like you said, Did you take playwriting classes? Did you do? No, you just, kind of just pen the paper.

Tiffany Countryman  06:08

Yes, the most experience I had was, of course, writing essays in school, and I've always been able to tell a story, because my senior year of high school, I had to write a lot of essays to get scholarships. So I was real creative then, because I wanted my story, my life story, to stick out so that I was awarded the scholarships. So along with that, and along with writing essays and different researches in college, it was just a natural tool that I had that I really didn't know the power behind it, until it was time for me to tell my story.

Rodney Veal  06:40

Oh my god. Well, that's good, I guess. Hope for the rest of like this is, you know, the podcast is called Inspired by so it's like, I'm hoping it gives people an inspiration to say, You know what, you can do this, there's no and so in this kind of reaching out, you must have made an impact. Because I'm telling you, Emily wells and Cappy kill board, or no joke, when it comes to, you know, wanting to do this thing with the human race theater. And I, I'm a, I'm a big fan of their work, and I'm also a big fan of the human race. Is like to be asked to be on the board means that you are doing something so were you once you started writing plays, was it then, like you did the first one and how. And obviously there was a response to it, because, you know, you do one and then it's either people connect to it, or they go, girl, like, maybe

Tiffany Countryman  07:33

it was a real connection Rodney, because the basis of the storyline was that my dad was addicted to drugs, and this was in that 80s, 90s era, you know, when cocaine really began to take over our communities. So I was able to tell a story from a child's perspective. I was able to talk about my dad being gone for weeks, months, sometimes years at a time. And just that story line, coupled with all of the, you know, specific nuances to my personal story touched a lot of people, because there were a lot of people in the audience that had either been addicted to drugs or had family members that were addicted to drugs. So that's what really pulled them in with that first show.

Rodney Veal  08:14

Wow. So, so you got them pulled in. So what was the second what was your second play. What was that about? I mean, you know, you know, big D, little T trauma. But then it's like, well, what else can what other kind of stories can I tell?

Tiffany Countryman  08:28

So the next thing I did was a monolog series. So I was a, I am a huge fan of the vagina monologs. So what I did, because after premiering, I wish I had a daddy. I heard a lot of testimonies and stories about their father issues. So I did a monolog series called The daddy diaries that had 10 different monologs of child father relationships, where they're good, bad, happy, sad, male, female, and so I was able to tell 10 different versions of a child and father's relationship. That was my second show that I did. The third show was a musical called August 28 and it was a reenactment of the March on Washington. I was able to partner with some other local artists here to put that on. And then my fourth show, which actually was the one that won me an award from California, was Rona the aftermath, and I was the only one that was doing theater in the middle of the pandemic. Broadway was even shut down, but I still was able to put on a show in 2021 and 2022 uh, came back for an encore in 2022 and Ronan, the aftermath, basically talks about two married couples that was stuck in quarantine and all of the things that bubbled up, all the effects, all the serious conversations, and one couple ends in a divorce, and another couple ends triumph in triumph. So those are the four shows that I've written and produced personally, and of course, I've worked on other projects. But those are my babies.

Rodney Veal  09:55

Those are your babies. I what I mean, you I mean the thing is. Okay, why did you think you were going to go into HR with that kind of creativity? I'm

Tiffany Countryman  10:04

just, I hadn't tapped into it yet. I was just, I was just, you know, going the straight and narrow. You go to, I know, get a job, and I had a child. So it was, if it wasn't for therapy, I wouldn't have started writing. I wouldn't have started writing.

Rodney Veal  10:19

Yeah, wow. Because, I mean, we all come at it at a different I mean, I'm writing now, and I've been, I have been writing, and so I used to think I was a horrible writer, really. I mean, yeah, you know that just you just, you just assume everyone else is more brilliant than you. You think, okay, that's not my lane. And then you start to realize that you do have a voice. And so, like you it's like, in your thing is through therapy and writing, you just found this is your thing, absolutely, is it? It's almost, it almost feels intuitive. I mean, you know, you just have this intuitive nature about the human condition. Because I kind of, you know, in this kind of segues into what I saw a week ago. And let me tell you, I was okay. I'm not gonna lie. I'm always honest. I'm always you know that almost to a fault about I was really tired because we've been filming everything with Because NATO was here in town. But then I got the invitation from Joni Doherty at the Charles F Kellie foundation to see vignettes of the and it was from the from the belonging project. And then I went in, I was like, Okay, it's a Saturday. It's two o'clock. I could be napping. And then I but I sat there mesmerized. And was I sat there and I went, this has so much potential. And I love the I Love It kind of seems like this is your this, this notion of you pulling an abstract, abstracting stories from others, and yourself to kind of as a dramatic device. And it was, and I know you worked, you worked with Sierra Leone, and you worked with Emily, I mean, and these and a wonderful group of actors, by the way, I absolutely dedicated. And it was really diversity of of bodies and ideas and places that these actors were. I mean, who was that process? Like getting like, now you are, you are in this?

Tiffany Countryman  12:17

Yeah, I'm in the thick of it. Rodney, I'm in the thick of it. I love I love my job simply because of the stories that I'm able to hear, whether it's story through scripts that we have to read or stories that we hear from, excuse me, our community members. So that whole process, I've been privileged to be a part of the project from the conception, it's a project that the human race has in partnership with the Kettering Health Foundation. Kettering Foundation, excuse me, I've worked with Joni, Emily and Sierra Leone. It started off with us going and interviewing over 100 community members in different group settings. We went to corporations, we went to schools, we went to shelters. We had some held here at the theater. We had one hill down at the foundation, and basically Emily and Sierra came up with these prompt questions to just prompt the conversation. And before you know it, we're two hours in, and everyone is sharing childhood stories. They're sharing stories that they've forgotten, stories that just came back up because of what others were sharing. And what happened was I was able to be a, I guess, the liaison or the facilitator for some of the sessions, and that's how I got so heavily involved myself. So once we finished our our interviews with our community members, Sierra then went back and began to construct the play. So what you heard on Saturday was like an actual session that would happen when we would meet with our community members. Some of the stories verbatim are exactly the stories that we heard from some of our community members. How I got a part of the reading itself was unfortunately one of the cast members lost a family member. Was that Thursday the Thursday before, so I jumped right in there for that reading. We had rehearsal on Thursday evening, and then we had rehearsal Saturday morning, and then we did the reading Saturday afternoon. We have another one coming up, June 17, here at the theater, so you can come and hear the progression of the work, but the actual project itself has been very enlightening. It's been very informing. As a daytonian myself, I was born and raised here in Dayton, born at Miami Valley Hospital, attended and graduated from Dayton public schools, attended Sinclair College, attended right state, lived in the west side, north side, east side. So to be able to hear from other communities, there's stories that I've never heard before I couldn't even fathom, was absolutely exhilarating. So it has been a wonderful project.

Rodney Veal  14:51

Oh, my God. Well, I think it's I'm really am. You know, I got this look on my face, yeah? On top. Have a natural storyteller. You're a natural actress. Okay, come on.

Tiffany Countryman  15:05

You can't have all the talent. I can't sing, and that's the only one thing I want to do. I want to just blow. I was just a community or something, but

Rodney Veal  15:18

I, yeah, I'm told I can't do it. I can't do. I'm with you on that one. So, so in this process is journey you, like you, they, you got, they just kind of tap shoe in. I could see why Emily and Cappy said, Oh, you are this thing. And so like this, and these stories, you know. And for the folks, I mean, I if you see this posted, or you see anything that's connected with the human race, with this project, the belonging project, go, I mean, I really, I can't, I mean, I can't stress it enough, because I just, I, when I sat there, because, you know, there's a, there's a, one of my favorite plays is The Laramie Project, which was, which is that same sort of, kind of, it's like an investigation. It's like a it's like, you know, you're getting all these different voices. And even though it was centered and themed around a really horrific event, it was like hearing other people's voices. There's something rich about we're all in this kind of space in the Miami Valley, like you. I love it. You said you've been on the north side, east side, west side, you've been to all the education institutions that we have, other than you consider your master's degree and PhD Ud.

Tiffany Countryman  16:33

Tap on UD would be this for sure,

Rodney Veal  16:36

they need to knock on your door absolutely without a doubt. Is it like in these stories? What surprised you about this, the stories for these folks in the community,

Tiffany Countryman  16:45

I think what surprised me the most, because I've never been able to be a part of a project like this. So what surprised me the most is the similarities in the in the diversity, the similarities in the diversity. What I mean by that is we interviewed so many different people on social, economical levels, different races, different ethnicities, different representations, whether they're part of the LGBTQ plus community, whether they're conservative, Republicans, Democrats. We interviewed a diverse of people, but the similarities were so heavy. Everyone has these type of insecurities, these wonderings of, who am I, where am I really wrong? Yeah, this is what I represent, and this is what I stand for. But even in those groups, I don't really feel like I belong so much. And that was the most intriguing thing to me, is that we all walk around with this question of, am I showing up being who I'm exactly supposed to be, or am I just trying to fit into the moment? And that was the most, that was the heaviest thing that I took away from the project, is that we all have that question.

Promo  17:54

I'm Bonnie miles, membership coordinator of CET. Thank you for listening to Rodney veils, inspired by this podcast is a production of cet and think TV to local PBS stations as PBS stations, the work we do online, on air and in the community is supported by listeners like you. If you're enjoying the show and would like to support our work, please consider becoming a member@cetconnect.org or think tv.org Plus, when you sign up to donate at least $5 a month, you'll get access to special members only streaming videos on the PBS app through passport. Learn more@cetconnect.org or think tv.org If

Rodney Veal  18:35

you're enjoying this conversation, the art show, also hosted by Rodney veal, is available to stream anytime, from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app, that, and that is the number one question that drives any sort of it's it give me ways that's the ultimate roadblock to creativity. I mean, if you don't sense that you belong and your voice doesn't belong, and I always you know your your artistry and creativity is your voice, you might not pursue it. You might not take the first step. I mean, so, I mean, that has to be a real mind blown. It's only been a week. Let's be very clear. I mean, are you still unpacking them? Because that's the whole thing. Like, you know, all the creative process was, like, it's not, it's, I think there's a belief that the creative process is a one and done, like, there's a performance, it's not a one and done. It has lingering effects, and that's from an audience perspective, but, but from a from a creator's perspective, a collaborators perspective, has that kind of, is it starting to kick in? Like, oh,

Tiffany Countryman  19:37

oh, yeah. Is resonating deeply within my soul, because there's so many things that we tackle in that show Rodney,

Rodney Veal  19:44

there's no,

Tiffany Countryman  19:47

so many tablet topics, so many things that is like, whoa. But with that, it's allowing a lot of conversation and understanding to happen and then a little bit of fear. I'm not going to lie, there's. A little bit of fear there of are we in the place right now to talk about these things without any type of negative or violent feedback? So those things do churn through me as I, you know, process that project, but I'm excited more than anything. Is

Rodney Veal  20:21

it? Because it is what I what I gathered from the the talk back, because we talked about, you know, the audience had a chance to get into the feedback, was that the to your point, when you talked about fear, I felt that there was a, there's sense of unease at the fact of the topics that were were being brought up, and so as as a creator, and in this process, how do you, how do you kind of grapple with the fact that this may not, this may not be, it's fraught. It's gonna it's gonna create that you could tell, I mean, it was like, I don't, I don't know how I check out the words. There was a palpable says that there's some folks who are like, Oh, you go too far. And like, but isn't that what theater supposed to do exactly?

Tiffany Countryman  21:13

And we're just, we're the theater to do it. You know, I stand 10 toes down on the content in the script, not only because I was a part of the project, but because that's what we represent here at the human race theater company, especially in collaboration with the Kettering Foundation, under the banner of democracy and the arts, like we are the ones that have to bring this to light, there's so many elephants in the room. There's so many people walking on eggshells. It has to be the arts, primarily the theatrical arts, to begin these, these long overdue conversations, so that we can work through them, so that we can come to some sort of understanding, not so much flipping the other side, but just coming to peace. To be like, Okay, this is how you choose to belong. This is how I choose to belong. Let's belong in peace. And I think that we could get there with a lot of work and with a lot of, you know, prayer, definitely

Rodney Veal  22:11

a little out of work. So my question is the concept to expand it beyond 40 minutes?

Tiffany Countryman  22:17

Oh, absolutely. The concept is for it to be a full theatrical production with a presentation intermission, maybe touring. Yeah, it is become a full script. Yes,

Rodney Veal  22:28

sir. Well, and that, and that's my hope, and it was my hope with it, with that, with that, I just felt like, yes, yes, the conversations were uncomfortable. Yes, we got to do a little, you know that, folks. But then also, that's not everybody's reaction. And that's the great thing about theater. Take it or leave it. Everybody's got a different response. And I think that's what makes that sense of belonging as an audience member is valid in this conversation about belonging, you belong in the audience to kind of hear some stories that you may not have touched base on or have known, and a universality of it. And that's what's the thing was, there's a universality that I thought was like, Oh, this is, this is about the American melting pot. This is a, this is about, this is reason why it's called the melting pot. You got different ingredients. We all bring something extra to the sauce. And so,

Tiffany Countryman  23:26

hey, but if there wasn't for seasoning, it wouldn't have any taste. So, yeah, oh, I'm here for it.

Rodney Veal  23:32

Yeah. So, so like, what are your What are you? What are your projects like that, beyond just this project, but what are the kind of things that you kind of hope to accomplish at the human race. You got the energy

Tiffany Countryman  23:44

in the Spirit. We are focused on bringing a Tony to really, yeah, sure that that's my focus. We want to be a Tony holding theater company, for sure, but also to continue to engage and continue to bring positive change to the community as a whole. Besides the shows you know that we put on stage, we're very committed to community engagement itself, showing up at festivals, being there at different dinners and different fundraisers, being sponsors, donating tickets, making sure that we're showing up and being visible to let everybody know that we're here. We're here to serve this community that we love so much that has allowed us to be here for 40 years. So as we go into our 40 year season, community will always be the focus.

Rodney Veal  24:36

I love, I love, I love, ambition. Why not well? Why not well? And that's the whole thing with our community. I was talking to someone at an event, and there are so many award winning folks from this area, from this area. I mean, it's kind of, it's kind of a little on. It's a little. Odd. I mean, yeah, I just found out a one that there's a, I mean, we've got a Tony Award winner, we've got an Oscar winner, we've got Emmy Award winner, we have a Grammy winner. And I found out one of our, one of the students at Stivers, is a Grammy Award winning producer who lives in London, who lives in London. I mean, oh, so that. I mean, so you kind of, I think that if people heard this and go, Oh, that's kind of ambition. But I think a lot of people realize the Tonys give out regional Tony awards or X, absolutely. And I'm like, folks, folks, this is not a, this is not a far off pipe dream. It's very possible. So I mean, like, what would you like? Okay, I know what the human race wants to do this is, this is putting it out there in the universe. You know, you put stuff out there. So what do you personally want to do? Oh,

Tiffany Countryman  25:47

I definitely personally want to win a Tony. I'm actually going to change my name to Tiffany Tony Award winning. I'm gonna go down to Supreme Court and put Tony Award everybody must address me by Tony Award winning Tiffany. That is a personal you know goal as well. But you know, outside of art, right now, as a mother, I'm focused on getting my daughter across the finish line of the age 18, graduating high school, making that next step. That's one of my primary focuses. Another focus myself is to continue my education, to learn as much as I can, whether that's here, on the job, out in the community or in a formal educational setting, write more shows, participate in more art, produce more art, collaborate with more artists. You know, just live the life. Just live the life. Throughout me. Oh, live the life.

Rodney Veal  26:41

Live the Life live. And that's the thing, is, again, we, you know, I know you've encountered folks in this whole notion that, that there's, there's no way to live the life in the arts. I don't, I, which I don't, I don't buy I, personally, I know you don't buy that. Mike, absolutely, you're evident that, you know, you can manifest a lot of things. And so this question like, What would you say to somebody like, you know, who never, who may have had that kind of thought in the back of their mind or in their heart to kind of try to even just be a writer or an actor or singer or dancer or painter? What would you say to them? Because you kind of took a leap of faith. I mean, absolutely I wouldn't have written a play from my therapy sessions. I probably should, but, but there's rich material. We all have it. Folks, what would you say to them? I mean, what? What about that leap of faith?

Tiffany Countryman  27:42

I would say, not to restrict their creative edge. A lot of times we get a lot of ideas, but we like scare ourselves or talk ourselves out of pursuing them, and the easiest thing is just to start at the first step. Sometimes you get overwhelmed with the overall picture. Because when you think about writing a play, you think about a play production on stage, but first you have to start with an outline. You have to start with characters, a character description, a plot, a summary, you know, start at the very basics and work your way there. Give yourself patience, give yourself grace, but absolutely do something that you know that you are called to do that you absolutely love doing. Don't force yourself to do something for a long time. I thought that I wanted to be a painter, like an actual painter. On every time I try, I would buy paint. They would dry out, I wouldn't rush the brushes properly. I didn't, you know, study the way I wanted to, because I didn't really have a passion for that. So make sure that you're focused on your passion, and that you give yourself patience and grace and just start at the first step. Don't think about the bigger picture. Start at the route to get there.

Rodney Veal  28:52

I love that. That's that's such great, profound advice, because I think a lot of people do stop themselves with the big picture. It is kind of daunting. It is a very scary thing, I mean, I mean, and, but you are proof of we're talking this. And this isn't overnight, folks. I mean, I think this is, yeah, it's like we're talking, you've been at this for a while.

Tiffany Countryman  29:12

Yeah, my first play was 2018 I wish I had a daddy. Was 2018 then I produced a show every year after that, until 2022 when I started working here,

Rodney Veal  29:22

wow, you just leaped in. So you were still working. Well, you were obviously, we're still working that time. We, you know, we, you know, yes.

Tiffany Countryman  29:30

HR, that's how I was able to pay for the play, cuz I knew nothing about sponsorships, nothing. So I paid for my first play completely out of pocket. I had to pay musicians. I paid for everything myself. So yes, I was still working up until the pandemic. I quit my job at the height of the pandemic, like around October 2020, then I went freelance for about a year, year and a half, and then I came over to the human race.

Rodney Veal  29:59

Oh, my God, okay, okay, so which I, because I talked to a lot of people about about right now, I think we're kind of processing that code, those COVID years, you know, that was a catalyst, you know, get off the pot. Get up, make the choices. Do you think that that was, did you see that as sort of the catalyst to say it's time?

Tiffany Countryman  30:25

It was a pivotal moment for me. Pivotal moment I really started to take off online, because everyone was at home watching Social Media, scroll through social media, watching Netflix, watching YouTube, and so I just started making videos. And my videos started going viral. At first, my videos were about, I called it full time parenting, because, you know, all the kids were at home on digital chrome books and stuff, doing school work. So I would make no work was done. So I would make little school videos about that, and I saw that the my audience had a a liking to my style of storytelling, because I was I was being silly. I wasn't being, you know, serious. So I started with that, and then I started making political videos during the election that raised my audience a lot. And so I just really leaned into that digital space during that time, which really helped me, like, if it wasn't for us shutting down, I would still be going on the day to day, day to day, just treating my playwright and my art as a hustle, and not making it my primary goal, but not treating as

Rodney Veal  31:36

a hustle, because I think that's That's really critical, that is an absolute moment for anyone that's out there kind of considering this life, and it doesn't matter what I consider the arts, the life. I mean, it could be any art form. I It doesn't matter. It's like that we had not to treat it as the hustle, right? You know? And that gets tiring, I mean. And instead of just saying, you know, what, if I focused all my energy on it not being a hustle, this could be the thing. And obviously, for in your in your behalf, people were paying attention. Yeah. I mean, folks know what? I don't think people fully understand, when you get invited to be on a board of a nonprofit, it's because you're about it versus just a title. I'm so grateful.

Tiffany Countryman  32:26

I had no idea that this would be my past right now. Rodney, this is not what I when I you know, when you graduate high school and you say, in 1020, years, this is, this is not it, but I love it. I'm glad I'm here. I'm not complaining. It's just like I never would have fan film, that my journey would be what it has been, especially in the last five years. I never would have thought, never I

Rodney Veal  32:48

felt like this is such an acceleration in this fact that it's like, you know you are, like I said, That's and I know that and that you are, because weren't you at leadership Dayton as well?

Tiffany Countryman  32:58

I am. I'll be graduating next week, class of leadership day in we have finished our our year, and our graduation is next Wednesday, and we're so excited. We're so excited.

Rodney Veal  33:12

That's such a that's such a great program. I think that those like, I mean, I mean, talk about an immersion into, like, your community, the community, in a way that, and this is something I've always been curious. Because I was talked to, I was talking to some, some other folks, like a couple weeks ago, about leadership Dayton, and they always said, I've been here. I've lived here all my life, and I There are things I didn't know. I mean, I'm a kind of cure. I'm so I'm curious. What did you learn about Dayton that you didn't know about from from leadership.

Tiffany Countryman  33:42

Dayton, well, Rodney, I definitely, yeah, I definitely echo those sentiments, because I was in each section like, wow. Okay. But I would say the greatest session for me was our right Pat day when we went on base and we got to tour base and learn about the many faucets that are, you know, integrated into the base itself. I had no idea that we were working hand in hand with NASA. I had no idea that astronauts came to our base to train. A lot of absolutely, see, see, I had no idea. Okay, we saw machines that they go in to train, and a lot of things that I was able to tour and learn about, I would say I took the most from my right Pat Air Force day. However, every session so we meet monthly. For those that are listening, we meet once a month, and we go to a different sector, whether it's health care, the arts, the base, you know, things like that. Every session was rich and full of information in history, like there's so much to be proud of being a daytonian, but for me, the greatest day, the greatest takeaway, was Wright Patterson day.

Rodney Veal  34:49

Oh, that's crazy. I mean, that's I would never we're landlocked, folks. We're nowhere near, you know, we think of NASA at Cape Canaveral. We don't right, realizing, Oh, no. Oh no, no, no. It's all happening there at the base. And so I love that. I love the fact that that's that there's you naturally come by this sense of curiosity about stuff. You seem to be like a person. That's why I'm I'm so glad I got to talk to you, because it's like, Oh, Tiffany, good trouble that we can get into this.

Tiffany Countryman  35:18

I'll try everything at least once. Rodney, I'll give it a try. I want to be a fair judge, a fair

Rodney Veal  35:26

judge. You kind of figure it out and so, but the thing is, but that's whole thing. I mean, in creativity, you can't shut yourself off to any of the possibilities that I think that seems in any of the conversations I've had with folks about in this podcast, and I, you know, we're coming up on the end of season three, going into season four, so I'm just kind of like, Wait, congratulations. Oh, well, thank you. And so, but there's like, but I think there's a common thread. Every person I've talked to on the show is just naturally curious. I'm in the curiosity, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw a book out at you, because I think you, you are the this book. I think this will. You will enjoy this book. I can't believe I'm plugging someone else's book, but it was, I just I got into it. I saw this book. The title caught me. It was called Moral ambition, okay? And the subtitle this book is, stop wasting your talent and start making a difference when I and it's by Rutger Bregman, I was I started reading. I'm like, this book is up your alley. If you go to have a summer read, I think you need to read moral ambition. I want to check it out. Because I feel like you're like, I'm already, like, a third of the way through, and I'm thinking everything you have talked about, he's talking about, wow, okay, so, so I'm like, Okay, this is kind of a well, that whole question of of faith and and, and being open to the possibilities, you know, like, you know the straight and narrow, like you went from you, you went to the you did the HR. She got those skill sets, which is process. We all know that. But then, but you all, but you can't be in the creative realm without the sense of curiosity and and, and. So this is for the kids. Because this is, you know, this last question, what would you say to any child out there who is like wanting to, you know, because the following is straight narrow. We all know what that is. I know, as an African American is like, you know, you know you got, there's some expectations you better be able to pay for the roof over your head, absolutely. But what would you say to those young people who may be getting that sort of, you know, fuzz do the straight and narrow, but you really got something inside of you that's even bigger. What would you say to them?

Tiffany Countryman  37:48

There's two things I would say. One is a quote from the late Kobe Bryant that I hold near and dear to my heart. And he said that the dream is not the destination. It's the journey. The dream is the journey. What we do day to day, project to project, the people that we meet, day in and day out, that's the journey. Because once we get there, it's all over. We have nothing else to do but just say, I'm here. So it reminds me constantly to center myself and be in the present, because this is, this is the life that I dreamed of having, that I'm churning in right now. The second thing would be to listen to your mother. Listen to your mother. Your mother. It took me till I'm about 31 to realize that maybe, maybe this woman does what she's talking about, little bit, um, because my mom

Rodney Veal  38:46

so true. Yes, you know,

Tiffany Countryman  38:47

like, maybe a little bit, she's very gentle in her approach and how she addresses things, especially since I became an adult, and I'll just be like, Oh, mom, whatever. And now when she says something, I'm all ears, because there's wisdom there. There's life that has been lived, and noone knows you better than your parents. Um, so to all the kids that are striving, that are trying to do something, understand that your parents have your best interest at heart, even though you may think they're lame or they're dated or they have no idea what they're talking about. Listen, as I get older, I hear stories from my mom. I'm like, You did what you went where um, so listen to your mother, listen to your brother, and stay present in your journey. That's, that's my advice for today, Rodney, that's it. That's all I got.

Rodney Veal  39:35

I'm laughing because that's, that's, that's not a child's that's not just, not, not for just children, that's for adults as well. That's a universal that's that has generational it is generational appeal. I love that about you. I love that so folks, I mean Tiffany, you. I could see why people say, Yeah, Tiffany, go. You ready? She's she's got it going on.