Troy Campbell - Executive Producer, 'City of Songs'

Rodney Veal interviews artist Troy Campbell, a multifaceted artist and cultural advocate, discusses his journey from his early years in Ohio to his diverse career in music, television, and art.  He also shares the inception and impact of the House of Songs project, which fosters international musical collaborations, and his ongoing work on the "City of Songs" series.

Learn more about City of Songs: https://www.instagram.com/cityofsongstv

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Promo, Troy Campbell, Rodney Veal

Troy Campbell  00:00

They look at me because they'll know more like all the different things I've done they didn't see all the years. And sometimes when I talk to artists, I'm like, You better have you know, know that you're gonna have to have reject stamped on your butt, because that's part of being an artist. And the other is, the only rule is, if it's truthful, the right people will like it. So our job is to play truthfully and the right people like it. I don't know how many there are or who they are, but that is the equation.

Rodney Veal  00:36

Hello, everyone. My name is Roddy Veal, and I'm the host of Rodney Veal's Inspired By and today I get to have this conversation with a true, overused work term, but, but definitely applies renaissance man of the highest order and caliber, a true, shining cultural knight who is out there fighting the good battle for music, television, content, art, culture. I mean, you name it. This guy's hands are in it. And it was really great to kind of be introduced to him. His name is Troy Campbell, and he is a guest on our show today.

Troy Campbell  01:16

Thanks for having me today, Rodney. I'm very excited to be able to talk to you today.

Rodney Veal  01:20

Awesome, awesome. So, you know, Rodney feels inspired by the shows like, kind of basically like, what, it's almost like a, this is your life, kind of a journey, but it's not always all that. And so my, my curiosity is, is like you, like I said, I described you as, you know, the true ultimate, like cultural warrior and Renaissance guy. I mean, let's go back to the beginning. I mean, did you see yourself in this kind of the especially as a musician, but in this role in life when you were young, being in the arts.

Troy Campbell  01:55

So my earliest memories are growing up in southern Ohio. Was born in Middletown and grew up in Dayton. Grew up in Dayton, Germantown area. So as a little kid, you know, my father's from Eastern Kentucky, my late father from Appalachia, and my mother's from Korea, and so mountain people, I guess that's where it started. And in the beginning, in the beginning I My earliest memories were thinking, everything to me was visuals. You know, I had a really creative mind in terms of seeing things way before they were done in my mind, or memorizing songs. Even at even around the age of four, I could remember an entire song, lyrics, everything, but other things were really kind of a mystery to me, you know, school and the ability to remember my own phone number, things like that. But I think the earliest memory of sort of wondering if I was an artist, because before I sort of hit it, you know, it just felt like that's the crazy thing, and everybody seems to have a hard time with that. I would collect things from around my neighborhood, put them in my wagon, or what have you, and put them under my bed, so that later I could make things out of them, right? And sometimes it would be cereal, it could be anything, and I would have big sheets of paper, and I would glue things to it, and I would just want to practice looking at, you know, whatever I felt like, or stories I thought I was going to create with that. And my mother would inevitably pull these things out and just be completely upset by the fact that I was messy, but also, like she had no idea kind of why I was doing that, or what I was doing. And to me, it just made sense. It was the thing I hid that I did. And I remember my my my granny came in. She was from hazard, and she saw my mother kind of yelling that, oh my God, you're going to become a, you know, a garbage collector, or this, this, this, you know, like, whatever she was like, saying, you know, like immigrants, biggest nightmare, you know, I wasn't going to go whatever law school and so, probably, right. And my grandmother stopped her and said, hey, no stop you. Leave him alone. You never know what that's going to turn into. Look at what he's doing. He could be some kind of inventor. He could be doing something that could create some jobs for us. And my mother was silent, and she never bothered me again. But I heard and I distinctly remember it down to exactly the way she looked when she said it, that this was something and that I could do something could make a difference. Wow. So, yeah, it kind of stuck with me. It still does. Once in a while, when I get nervous about working on something that's probably far too big for me to take on. I think, well, you know, what have I got to lose? And I flew in there with one of my friends. My sister picked us up. She's wearing all black. She picked us up in Newark. We get on a bus, and the bus stops in the middle of Times Square, which I thought that was where she lived. What she thought was they only have couple days. I'm going to show them everything. And if you think about Times Square and say 1982 it was a hell of a place, and the side were as big as the streets in my little town. And I. Was just staring up at the at the buildings. I'd never I couldn't fathom it. I'd seen pictures, but nothing could prepare me for that. And people you didn't know what to look at the this craziest person, or, you know, the most fascinating person, they were all the same, just coming at me, right? Yes. And I was staring at the buildings and looking at my sister said, Stop looking at the buildings. And I said, why? She goes, You look like a tourist. And I said, I am a tourist. I wasn't embarrassed. I'm totally a tourist. And I remember those three days things like it was William Sloan coffin, the Reverend William coffin at Riverside Church was doing the sanctuary movement for people of El Salvador. My sister was deeply engaged in that. I had no idea it was going on, but we were locked in a massive church with the group, and it was the, you know, there was government and police outside, and that was a pretty famous moment. But I didn't know why we were there, but I learned as I was listening to him speak. And in that same regard, I remember, on the last day, my friend, the Honky Tonk Man, and I were sitting out on a balcony on like the 17th floor of this little place she had, and we finally found the marijuana we had hidden. And because we were so overwhelmed, we didn't have time to smoke a joint, which we thought this is going to be the perfect trip. And I remember dropping the lighter down all those flights on the on the fire escape, and it landed and sort of exploded in the distance. And I just threw everything away, and I said, if there's more of this out there, this is all I want to do. I want to see everything. And just a couple years later is when I ran into a gentleman, Ed Pittman, who's one of the early pioneers, a sort of punk in the Ohio scene. He had a band called The toxic reasons. Okay, his stepbrother happened to be or half brother happened to be the Honky Tonk Man, my next door neighbor in Germantown, and it's kind of a weird story, but we would all sit around at night, and his older sister would bring have parties while his mother was working at the pine club, and we would wait around for her friends to sort of just kind of fall to the side, and we would, you know, get their beers and things like that. And one evening, I remember the Honky Tonk Man saying, and he wasn't called that until later, it's Eric. And he said, No, my brother's coming to visit. And I said, I didn't know you had a brother. He goes, he's, he's a punk singer, he's a big guy. And, yeah, I just don't know how this is going to go. He's, he's off the road or something. And I said, Oh, sounds fascinating. And he comes walking into this, you know, 1983 party. In Germantown, Ohio, where you're listening to Bad Company blasting and everything you can just kind of visually think about. And he comes walking in. He's got a vest with all these buttons on it. He's a massive guy like Andre the Giant size in my mind, comes in and he's got a bag of records under it. Oh, yeah, yeah. He walks in. He looks around and goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, out, out, out. Everybody out. And they were all like, ah. And he just starts moving him out. And I remember the last movement. Eric and I are sitting around the turntable, like, wow, this is really going down. Like, he's like, Nope, you gotta go. You gotta go. You gotta go. And it was kind of nice, but he was so imposing. He wasn't about to have this thing going on. And he he took the record from the turntable and said, and he picks it up, and he snaps it, throws it to the side, and he puts on. I think it was maybe the clashes first record, it's like, and everybody runs out of the house, his sister screaming, and you running out of the house. And he looks at Eric and I, and he says, You guys have a problem with that? And I said, Oh, absolutely not. And he liked me for a second. He goes, What do you listen to? And I remember saying, the Heartbreakers. And I met Tom Petty in the Heartbreakers, because I thought that might sound cool to him. And yeah, I met Johnny thunders in the Heartbreakers, the New York punk band. He goes, fantastic, and he puts on a record of them. And I and he said, this is a good one. And I said, I've never heard this before in my life. And he was like, you said heartbreakers. I said, Tom Petty in the Heartbreakers. And he goes, All right, get get me some beers, because this is going to be a long night. And he just played record after record for hours. And wow. And the next day, I was an anarchist. Ed was taking us to show and yelling at us to jump on it, like every song, like, you know, punk jump. And he would be, like, higher, higher, and we but it was, it was like, you know, Joey head from DOA, and these, they liked us. We were kind of fun kids, and they would help us, you know, they find the set list, and they yell out names of songs as though they knew my songs. And Alejandro. Like, this is the turning point. He came up to me, just like at that party, and he said, and he was impressed that we had brought people out, like we had a following, and that we were sort of dressed up and we didn't look as nerdy now, and we were playing our asses off on those seven or eight songs. And he just looked at me. He goes, Why do you want to be the coolest guy in Dayton, Ohio, for which I didn't know what he meant, which was like a bit of sarcasm, which, you know, and Dayton, it's there just isn't passive aggressive. You're either passive or you are aggressive. I said, I don't know, but I I got a cool girlfriend now. And he said, No, no, no, no, no, you need to come down to Austin learn to write more songs and get your ass kicked. If you and your brother come down there, we'll let you crash on my family's couch. And my brother had just walked up behind me like he was, and he heard this conversation, and I said, Yes, yes, yes, of course. And then he walked away, and my brother goes. We finally got something going on. We can't leave. And about a year later, because prior to that, the turning point really was meeting the drummer, Mark Patterson, who had seen us play our first gig. Carter had brought him in. He was in the band. The toxic reasons, he was probably the most talented musician in the region that I've heard of, because I'd seen him play, all right, but he was, you know, super cool, you know, and older than us, and he saw us, and at the end of our first show, he came up and he said, I like you and your brother, the other guys, I don't really need. I'll tell you what. I'll join your band and help you get going, but you got to get rid of the other guys. And I looked at him like, okay, because they weren't really into it either. My brother was like, but what it was is mark then started explaining, showing us, making us play tight. He was making us listen to different recordings on cassette,

Rodney Veal  11:57

so you were kind of getting us.

Troy Campbell  11:59

We had a college going on, and I finally met people that are genuinely interested for no other reason than interested, or they see something that was Carter, that was at that was your friend Joan, that these are the people, and I watched them have a community, like an actual community. And during that time we're kids, and we're going to these parties, the emerging Dayton, uh, sort of punk scene was coming, because I knew of, you know, the players and and I was a fan of zap and things that came from Dayton, because I would study, did someone ever come from here that did something

Rodney Veal  12:35

right, right, especially with regards to music, and we, did we do we kind of continue? I mean,

Troy Campbell  12:41

Oh, definitely. You know, DNA. So cut to we, we ended up moving to Austin, Texas. About a year and a half later, we sold. I didn't have much, and then I made my brother and I, if you want to hear this story,

Rodney Veal  12:54

no, like, I'm kind of curious. Like, what, like, your brother was, God, he's kind of wet. Like, okay, well,

Troy Campbell  13:01

oh, he's, he's incredible, but he's, he's a very different personality than mine, obviously, and I had all this energy, but he, you know, we, we grew up where we looked after each other. And I think he was just making sure my little brother that I wouldn't go down some kind of crazy rabbit hole, because I was walking in that direction. Every opportunity I could is to go explore and but also just to have something to do together and work on and, you know, when you're that close in age, we shared bunk beds until, you know, till we were like 12, and we fought like cats and dogs too, but we were extremely loyal. Yeah. So I knew that was hard for him as a kind of a shy person, but I knew that if he played bass and he and he saw people appreciate it, that his energy would come together. I thought, you know, as a kid. And so we ended up touring and doing all these things. We made a little EP. We had won a little radio contest on 97x which was the great station in Oxford, yeah, yeah. And that was just this incredible time that if that's all I got, I would have felt like I'd become a better person, because I took that thing of being super interested in others and realized it wasn't a weakness. It was like the most powerful thing I could have was not trying to be interesting all the time, but like being genuinely interested in others. Just fed me, just like listening to records, you know, right stories,

Rodney Veal  14:25

yeah, and, well, it says it's this curiosity. I mean, you can't, I mean, because we had talked about that, and folks, we Yeah, Troy and I had this really long conversation before this podcast, and I loved it. I mean, I still think about it, because it was this, this question about the question of why, versus you weren't you, and you said it so beautifully about you were you weren't pursuing the fame part. You weren't pursuing the notoriety. You were just like, Hey, these are cool. These are amazing people. And this is curiosity about music and. Yeah, and all genres of music, it wasn't like you were just stuck in like this. That's what I loved about the punk scene that came out of Dayton. They were curious about freaking everything. I can't use foreign language because they're PBS, but, you know, gotta, gotta watch my PC keys on that one. Yeah, but that, I mean, I mean that curiosity that you have. But I love that face, even you you have it combined with this curiosity, plus this, this question of servicing, this being in service of others. Yeah, the music and storytelling, yeah, and it

Troy Campbell  15:32

wasn't like, I'm going to be a great guy. I was always obsessive, like, because I knew that I really didn't know how to play. I kept teaching myself. I still to this day, can't actually tune a guitar from scratch, but I know when it's even a tiny bit out, it makes me sick. So rather than letting that learning thing mess with me, I just worked around every single thing to get to where I was going. And sometimes things took much longer for me, but I never lost sight of where I was going to go, hopefully.

Rodney Veal  15:59

Well, no, I mean, you, I mean, you got to Austin. I mean, what's a lot we're talking Austin, pre Austin. Do you know I'm saying, like, Austin, yeah, it wasn't Austin. Wasn't Austin until, you know, a certain, you know, because it's, you know, it's built up mythology. But you were there at the beginning, like, the beginning stages of

Troy Campbell  16:21

this sort of isn't that funny, because I had left day in which I thought had everything I needed there, in a way where I look forward to things, right? Rather than trying to get through the day, I would set a goal and I look forward to it, or I looked forward to any moment I would go to the little record store and I meet somebody and be talking about some record, or I'd see somebody light up and they weren't being a snot to me, like at music stores, they would totally be snots to me. That's why, when I made that, that little EP with my brother the highwayman, I went to those record stores because I knew I made a record. And no matter what they said to me, they didn't, you know, I knew for sure that it was so hard back then to do that, and we were determined, because I watched others, and I knew that you had to have something, even if it was really difficult and expensive to do. We had to work towards it, and Carter and Ed and all those guys, everything was, that was the library, and that was what you built your next move on, is your work. And so I remember us leaving my brother, we had to get a some kind of a job, like a part time job, and we were, he was like, What are we going to go? Well, we need to get gas money, a little bit of food money, and I'm thinking it's about to go to all the way to Austin and just sort of survive for a couple days it's going to be and it was a lot. Then it was like, you know, four or $500 in my mind, you know, like, could, yeah. And then it was, we drove by near the Dayton mall. There was a Toys R Us that opened, and this was before Christmas. And I said, let's just pull in there. They obviously are going to hire people. And he was like, We don't know anything about toys. And we pull in, we get these little jobs, and he's, he's the guy that actually shows up and does everything. He's running a forklift, and I'm wandering around the store, answering questions, making up answers, and just doing my usual Troy stuff.

Rodney Veal  18:20

I was not expecting towards us to be in the

Troy Campbell  18:22

story. They're like, where's Troy? They'd come to him and be like, I never know, to be honest with you, you know. And I remember, this was terrible, but I came up to the forklift because I had done the math in my head how many hours we've already done and how much that is at minimum wage, you know. You know, maybe 10 cents over minimum wage. And I said, Mike, we need to talk. And he's doing this forklift. He goes, what? I go, stop for a second. We need to go to lunch. And he goes, it's 11, we can't go to lunch. And I go, that's what we need to talk about. And so I remember he went ahead, begrudgingly, and we left, walked out, checked out, and went to the little Pizza Hut, all you can eat, sort of lunch buffet, and I ordered beer. He goes, I'm sorry, what are you doing? And I said, we're done. We're done with toys. R Us, and we're going to we're going to get our last checks, and we're going to jump in that little van, and we're going to go to Austin and we're going to take him up on that offer. And he said, Well, I don't understand. I said, No, we're done. I did the math. We're done. He goes, but we got to go back and, you know, tell him and stuff. And I said, No, I don't, I don't really know how that works, but no. And he goes, I have to give him the best back. No, this is terrible. You know, this says, Oh my God, and we go back there. And it was one of the kids that was sort of helping manage ran up to us and said, Troy and Mike, where have you been? And I said, we need to talk. And my brother standing next to me, he goes about what I go, toys aren't us. Us. And the guy goes, okay, and he walked away, and my brother goes, I hate you because I actually wasn't trying to be funny. It's just how it came out. Boys are us. Just because I hate you, it gives them the best. And we got in the van and we drove and took 23 hours. Wow, by the time we left, it was around Valentine's Day, and I remember driving in, driving 24 hours eating chocolate someone had given us to stay awake. And as we get into Austin, there's a massive ice storm, and all the cars were pulled to the side of the road like they had almost crashed, and we're this little old van driving down the center of the highway, and we're like, Well, if this is Austin, I know one thing, these people don't know how to drive. We're and we said we're gonna stay off the road during any sort of weathery things. Because, you know, being from the Midwest, we're used to this. You knew not to freak out. You just had to stay steady so. And then we moved in with Alejandro and lived on his couch with his family, and changed my life entirely. And everything was an exploration. But we had a little resume. We had a record. You

Rodney Veal  21:15

had a record, and you had this kind of, you know, this following the pathway.

Promo  21:21

I'm Bonnie miles, membership coordinator of CET. Thank you for listening to Rodney Veals, inspired by this podcast is a production of CET, and think TV to local PBS stations as PBS stations, the work we do online, on air and in the community is supported by listeners like you, if you're enjoying the show and would like to support our work, please consider becoming a member@cetconnect.org or thinktv.org Plus, when you sign up to donate at least $5 a month, you'll get access to special members only streaming videos on The PBS app through passport. Learn more@cetconnect.org or think tv.org If

Rodney Veal  22:03

you're enjoying this conversation, the art show, also hosted by Rodney veal, is available to stream anytime from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app. So now you're in Austin doing this thing. I mean, you're there. Well, yeah, people who can't drive

Troy Campbell  22:16

these, these folks were taking on the role of really Ed and Jim, they were telling people we were all right there. We always called those guys from Ohio that are nice. Have you met those crazy guys from Ohio? That's what people would say. And we thought that was kind of funny. And Mark, Mark was with us, and we spent those years learning, you know, we found a guitar player that didn't know how to play. Mark was really mad at me, but I liked this guy. His name was scrappy, Judd. We named him, and he became like us. He taught himself to be this thing we were working on, and he became quite famous guitarist. And we're still really close. We made numerous records together as as bands. And so I was a part of that school, like the Dayton school, to me was, you know, that music scene, the wonderful people, but also the film scene. There was one person that Julia Reichert and

Rodney Veal  23:06

Steve Bogner, I was gonna, I was gonna ask you about that they

Troy Campbell  23:09

would come to our shows and dance, and she was at right, you know, right state as a professor. And Jim told me who she was, and she was making films about our people. That's how I looked at it. You know, she was, you know, seeing red Union Maids about and working for John sales, eight men out all of these things where I thought this is the most famous person here, and she liked our music and would come out, and they started using our music in their film. And that, to me, was mind blowing the idea that someone outside of the punk music scene might hear it, especially when it's a part of something that I felt like they were the clash of sort of filmmaking, right?

Rodney Veal  23:50

That's such a great description of them.

Troy Campbell  23:52

It's, it's accurate. It is. It is really a story told by whatever means necessary. But they're looking for the nuances and what connects. But also, you know, they stay out of the ditch of having to, you know, make up stuff, because the real is, you know, the truth, if it's truthful, the right people like it, and that's what they leaned into. And each thing kept reinforcing that is that you can do this like, like, I think that's your experience too. Is like, I have to do this. I wake up and I can't. It's not like, I'm wondering if I should do it. I have no choice. I have no choice either. Think about it and go to sleep obsessing about it.

Rodney Veal  24:30

Yeah, I mean, I It's so funny, because there was somebody with the other day. They're like, how are you juggling all the things that you're doing? And I tell them, I said, it's not a juggle. It's just things that I have to do. I'm okay getting up at five o'clock in the morning and putting glue to paper and twisting it and making making stuff. I mean, I mean, I and then take a go for a walk, and then come here and have a podcast interview. This seems like this is what my days should be. I mean, I.

Troy Campbell  25:00

Do. I'm here manifest that, and I'm I wonder how I'm able to juggle. And sometimes I'm like, I'm not going to get away with this, doing this many projects. And then usually I figure it out, or it works out, where I either shed something that I just I don't need to be doing, but I don't know how to say no. Growing up the way it is, you don't say no to any sort of opportunity or chance that it's going to connect to something or make some kind of money possibly, you know, right?

Rodney Veal  25:27

Because when you're, when you're kind of in that realm, it's like, because that's everybody's concerned about you. Can you take care of yourself? I mean, you know, you come from that kind of background. We're, we're Ohio. We're from Ohio. I'm from Jefferson Township, which is right next to Germantown. So, you know, it's one of those just, you just figure, I just figured it out. I mean, yeah, they were lean years. You had lean years, you know, you know what that's like. It was like, you know, the jobs that were just the jobs to stay, but it served its purpose. And like, you know, toys are not us. It's like, you know, hey, you know, I love books, but I should not be selling them anymore. You know, that kind

Troy Campbell  26:06

of deal. And I went to college for, I think two days. Was it Sinclair College, and after the second day of having an anxiety attack being there, I went, Well, I certainly can't do this again for whatever, 12 years or whatever, and I said, I'm going to lean into music and get some kind of job, but I I can't learn this way, right? No, and if they were teaching me that sort of stuff, I've been all in. But it wasn't, it wasn't their fault. It was that I had to learn in a different way than some folks. And I was too excited. I could feel it that I was moving towards something, even in my fear that I had to be moving, you know, so cut to amazing stuff happened in Austin. We were growing up with our friend. Our friends were trying to make films Richard Linklater and Robert Rodriguez, and those were people we hung out. I did drug studies with Robert when he was trying to raise money for our mariachi. And I would give him a hard time because he would show the film. I remember us getting our pupils dilated as one of the drug you know, you test drugs, right? Anybody, you hang out and you watch movies and you snack and do numerous blood tests. And I was like, That sounds perfect. And I was there with Bob Rodriguez and some other friends, and I just met him at my mutual friend said, you know, Bob's going to be famous one day. He's making movies and stuff. And I go, Well, he's from Austin. There's nobody making movies in Austin, you know, and we all had the glasses on. And remember, during movie time he would bring, he brought his little duffle bag filled with VHS, but the only movie he would show was Aliens and it. And after the first couple times of him showing it during that time, I started losing my mind, because I realized, I think he's edited this or something. I don't know how you do that on a tape. And I got up with the glasses and the dilated pupils, and he's looking at me. Go, Bob, Bob. Nobody cares about films, nobody. Nobody cares about that. Just show something else. Show, show the comedy, The canine movie, or whatever that Jim Belushi thing is just showing us like, no, no, this, this movie's genius. And I said, Yeah, it's genius, but I can't take it anymore, and nobody cares, you know, and puts it in. But years later, I get cast, and I'm not, you know, really an actor. I just would end up in things. And I got cast in one of his Planet Terror or something. It was a Tarantino, and he were doing, and I was working for Richard, doing music, clearances and things like that as a side job. And I remember being put in as a zombie killer of seven survivors, and I was reading this like I didn't put in an application or whatever. And I go ahead and go, because I thought, Oh, this is Tarantino, and this is Robert. This will be kind of fun. And I spent weeks being covered in blood, you know, for that, what three seconds on film. And I remember running up and down hills and having to pretend to shoot zombies and just, you know, the same clothes every day and and we'd work all night. And then I remember it was like four or five in the morning, and I was kind of done, and I'm with the other survivors and the Terminator guy, and behind me tapped me on the shoulder. Is this is so funny, but Quentin Tarantino is in my face, and I'd only seen him from the distance. And I said, whoa. And he goes, Hey Chief, which is not cool to say. He goes, Hey Chief, let me ask you something. Are you a zombie or a zombie killer? And I just kind of looked up and I said, I'm a zombie killer. And he said, gun down. Zombie gun up. Zombie killer, do it with me. Gun down. What he meant was I was holding the gun down, right? Cuz I was tired, and a zombie wouldn't hold the gun down. He wouldn't think to hold it up and be ready, right? That's not their mind. Set, so we do it, and everybody around us, little group out in the woods, are horrified, and I'm thinking, this is so cool. What a nice thing to do, right? Like, I have nothing to lose. And he leaves, and he pats me on the shoulder. He goes, good, and he walks away. And I'm standing there, and suddenly another tap on my shoulder, and it's Robert Bob, and he's staring me in the face, and we hadn't spoken really, sense that drug study. And a couple years before, and he goes, and I go, I know, right. And he walked away. And no one got it, but it was like an Austin thing, which was, hey, you idiot, and they had their own little club on the causeway. And it was, it was, you know, Glenn Miller and people and all those folks from that era would come there and dance. And these are folks in their 80s, and they would dance until sometimes they drop dead on the floor, but they dance because it was that was that generation. They didn't know if the next day they were going to be alive because of the war. And so they danced like every moment mattered. And that's what I felt like from that museum. So Shelley called me and said, Troy, and I'm sitting in a closet at Richard's place because there's no other place to put me in a little fax machine, you know. And I was sitting there with the phone, and she calls and she said, Troy, I heard you're in the film industry. And I said, Oh, I'm in the if a closet in the film industry is being in film industry, then perhaps I go, and she goes, No, I need somebody to make a little film on my dad. He's getting older, and their story is great, you know it, but nobody around here does anything. And I said, Well, why? You know, I go, What do you want me to do? She goes, Well, get somebody and help me just do a film. So I have something about my dad. And I said, Well, be honest with you, everybody here, nobody finishes anything except Richard. You know, that's that's my opinion, because people would talk about making things, but I never saw anybody actually complete things. And that's how I measured it. Did you make a record or not? And I said, No, but I know this guy. He's a newscaster, and I was, I was doing something like going somewhere like yoga or something, and I meet this guy, and he said, you're a creative you know? And I was like, yeah, he goes, Well, I do news, and I really want to work on something that's not that, because it but I knew he was on air TV guy, and so I said, You know what I do? I'd hire this guy who has to make stories every day and deliver them. And he could find a camera guy. And she goes, Well, will he be able to do it? I go, he has to do it. He only knows to grab the story, edit it and have it ready to go. And so she sent us a little money. We went there. We made this film about this big band. And it was, it was such a phenomenal story that we started seeing things we didn't know. And so we created a short documentary and entered it in the Austin Film Festival, and it won, but I was, you know, producing it, and it happened just before Katrina. So, yeah, this thing started to go out, and people were talking about it, and suddenly we see on the news, and we can't contact anyone. Everyone had disappeared, so we were worried dead. And finally, like two months later, or a month or two later, we hear from them, and they were rebuilding their club, like people in their 80s. And he basically said, you know, what am I supposed to do? You know, that's what all of them said, you know, what are we supposed to do? Lay down and die. I have to have a place to dance. And I was like, that's what we're calling this. And we kept working on it to be a feature. And CNN Anderson Cooper picked up story and ran it basically saying no one else is rebuilding. Some reason these guys are, these guys are something, yeah, and it really blew that all up. But that all happened out of nowhere. I had never, you know, made an actual film. I assisted, but that was just, it was just, you know, auspicious, or whatever you want to say. And at the same time, I was working on wanting to make a cartoon. So all of those things you see with, you know, all these different things, with these different awards and stuff that was all due to this sort of decision to find a different way. It wasn't like I was seeking to make a film, right, trying to learn what role

Rodney Veal  34:18

I could play, you know, but you were open to it. See, that's the whole thing. It's totally

Troy Campbell  34:21

open to it. It was all fun to me, you know? Yeah,

Rodney Veal  34:25

well, it is, that's what. That's why. Like, I was telling someone today, I was like, working out something, and I just said, they said, You sound happy in your voice. And I was like, Okay, well, that's an odd observation. But yes, I am happy. So just sounding happy, I am happy. I mean, as I'm tired, but I'm happy, and that's okay.

Troy Campbell  34:44

Gosh, that's the highest state I think you can be in if you're a Buddhist. It's how do you let go of everything and feel that, that joy, yeah, feel the how you've let go of all the other stuff as much as you can, because you believe in. Something greater than yourself.

Rodney Veal  35:01

You know, I was, yeah, and so, because the reason why I was, I was, we were talking earlier about, like, remembering your our conversation, I started reading this book, yeah, called Moral ambition. And yeah, it's, um, oh, man, I It's, it's, I wish I had it like near me. Oh, but yep, I do. I do, just diving in. Rutger, Bregman,

Troy Campbell  35:30

moral, ambition, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Rodney Veal  35:32

I'll send it to you in enjoying it. I am really fascinated by this notion, because the subtext is, stop wasting your talent and stop and start making a difference. Yeah, it's like, do both. You can do both. Yeah, you can, you know. And so this whole notion of, what are you pursuing, and why? Which is this, like, you know, is it you can't take any of the stuff with you, so why is it? It's not about the accumulation of items. It's not the accumulation of awards. Those are nice. They do. They're lovely. It's a lovely affirmations. But that's not why we do it, because if it were, we would be bitterly disappointed at every turn. Because the universe works that way. It doesn't always give you what you want, so, but it does give you what you need, which is a different kind of a mindset. And so that's where, like, I really just started reading it, like, only 50 pages in,

Troy Campbell  36:26

50 pages in, but you're totally into it. So yes, I need to be reading something,

Rodney Veal  36:32

yeah, and so, and it's so notion of like, you know, you've done film, you like, so this is, like the perfect segue, because you, because we, we, you have a like, you started diving into making media content, yeah, and it's like, talk about that. I mean, that's like, that's amazing. It's amazing. This is and you're still making music and everything else.

Troy Campbell  36:53

But, I mean, yeah, I learned early on watching Richard or even Carter, you surround yourself with people. And at the very least, you run up ahead and go, Yeah, because there's a movement of people moving in a direction, and you don't need to be on the side trying to pull them over. That's that's a failure. But if you can run up ahead and go, Yeah, then then you, you know, by default, sort of lead, help lead something which I just want to see something for the first time before anyone else. Sometimes, that's why I do this house of songs. Thing is, it's, it really is pulling people together to write that are strangers from all over the world, because that's what happened to me and broke my career in terms of songs getting placed or things happening exponentially. I'd done a bunch of stuff, but I was really bored, but I didn't write with other people. I didn't know how I was afraid they'd see that. I didn't know how to really play the guitar that well. And then I met the Danish guy, Paul Krebs, and we wrote a song, and it was number one, Denmark, but it led me to this island called Sam so where I lived with a bunch of other writers in the Baltic Sea, and this is 99 or something. Americans are from every country but the Danish music societies and the Ministry of Culture thought our artists are so taken care of here. There's we really can't we don't really export. So we're all famous here. And I was from Austin, where we are all famous in Austin, but you couldn't name two Austin bands outside Austin, right? And I knew that. And I sort of like, how do we get the how do we get the jet fuel? You know? What do we do? I was able to get out, but it was because I was completely determined to find a way to go see more places, even going broke. And so that's how the house of songs started. That partnership the Danish music societies came to me because my friend Paul told them I had an idea for their artists, like years later. And these three guys in suits came up to me during South by and I was shooting with working with National Geographic, which to me, was, okay, this is a legit, legitimate job in 2009 and the writings on the wall with selling stuff, with CDs and stuff, and I'm going to, I'm going to diversify, and they come up to me while I'm doing this music shoot 2009 and said, We represent the Kingdom of Denmark, the music societies. We're going to invest deeper into our creative sector. And we think that Austin is going to blow up in terms of like creative and as a city, and your friend Paul says, you have an idea for our artists. And Paul never told me anything, and I had this kid helping with the camera and stuff, and I said, Well, I wouldn't put everybody together on an island, and that's where we're at right now. South by Southwest is this island, and it's great, but it's like a byproduct of all these years and the world, wanting to be a part of that community, right? And, and feeling safe to show your new thing or to do your thing, and and hope for a connection. And that was my college too. So I said, You know what I would do? I would have a house like I had in 1993 or two, where everybody came over all the time, like Carter's house. And. And when somebody did great, we cheered them. Nobody got jealous. And I said, That's what I'd want for my Danish friends, the artists to come. I don't want them to to bring their friends, because you guys totally isolate yourselves. You're shy. And I would try to match each artist with two or three artists to write with for those 10 days. And they would make friends, and if, even if they didn't write a song, they would have a network, and they would be considered part of our community. And the guy goes, How sure are you that your artists will make the time to show them around? I said, I'm 100% we love being hosts. We love that. And I said, Maybe it'd be good for our artists, because it's harder and harder to live here. And when you get to show somebody that play those places and those clubs, you remember, you're actually wealthy, even if you're broke, and that you can't, you can't copy that somewhere else. And I knew that. That's why I came back to Austin. I was the first city I ever kind of missed. Like, I'd be like, I got to get back, you know, weirdly. And so they said, wonderful. What's this called? And I just made it up. It sounded kind of Danish, you know, based on my experiences there the house of songs. And the guy goes, send us a budget, and he walks away. They walk away, the kid, the guy with me, that was sort of like helping and trying to get me to come back in, because I was a line producer, come back in and do my job. And I said, Wow. And he goes, Wow. That was the craziest thing I ever heard in my life. And I said, right, I go, until we made that up. And he goes, oh man. And he then he said, and then I said, What do you think you meant by budget? Like, like, I couldn't. The kid goes, Oh no, I remember. He was like, this guy got this thing, and now he doesn't have it because he doesn't understand. And so I called Paul Krebs, Paul Krabs, K, R, E, B, s, and I said, Paul, these guys, man. And he goes, Yeah, I know. And I go, these guys came up to me. He goes, I know, Troy, they loved you, man. And I go, they said this and this, he goes, I know, like I'm talking, he's a dangerously. And I go, they said, you said I had an idea for their artists, your artists and stuff. And he goes, and I go, why? You tell me. He goes, Well, Joy. Your first instincts are really incredible. After that, you get all like, Jerry Garcia on everybody you know, like, and I actually said, fair enough. And then he explained to me how that worked, and they had these residencies around the world, and they wanted to change that model. And I came up with an idea. They didn't put people together, they just gave you a ticket to New York, and you had a little apartment, and for 30 days you just wrote your novel or whatever. But I was like, That seems kind of lonely to me,

Rodney Veal  42:44

right, right? Community? I mean, yeah,

Troy Campbell  42:47

because for me as an artist, there was always someone I met that would, they would show me around and explain things and I would try it on, you know? So we did that. It was supposed to be for a year. I rented a little house, and then by the end of the year, it was so successful that the rest of Scandinavia societies wrote me and said, we heard what's going on in Denmark. We want to join you. And I had to actually tell the Danes they couldn't have as much time, and they had to share it with Sweden, or, you know, Finland, and which, you know, even in Scandinavia, which is all like, Oh, we're all equal. No, no. They're like, dogging each other all the time. And so I insisted, or I wouldn't do it, and that's what turned into 15 years in 30 countries, and I'm in Bentonville, and we're doing things in Italy and Stockholm again, and it just wasn't supposed to. It was just going to be one project to make sure I didn't let down my Danish friend that helped me so much, and it led to all this. And so once I started doing it, Rodney, I started shooting everything because it's process, and most people think music's disposable these days. For me, if you fall in love with the process or the artists, you can't really, you don't really want to steal from right? No, that's how I looked at it was. And that's when, after a couple of these crazy projects, I ended up in the Arctic Circle trying to create a story for this, this town in northern Sweden called lulia. And they wanted to be a partner with Austin, but Austin wouldn't have anything to do with them. They're too little. And so I went up there, and I found a guy that was making ice instruments like ice. And he was crazy. And every year they do these sort of cover songs in a giant igloo that he made a real one massive ruin out of ice, yeah, that could collapse on you at any moment. You know, there were some parts of this. And I said, you know, what I want to do this time is I want to get this artist, Charlie Sexton, who I love, and I think he should have a third act. The guy's done all these things, but he's so affable and personable and brilliant at playing it looks amazing on camera. And they tried to make him an actor for years and years, but that that wasn't his thing, but him being himself incredible. I mean, that's how it was played with Bowie. And made his own records. Had Archangels. And then 20 years with Bob Dylan as a musical director, because everybody liked to work with him. And his ability was so great, but he was very humble about it. He everything was about the song. So I admired him greatly, and I asked him and begged him to come up there whether we would shoot this thing. And I bring two young women from Austin that were emerging talent, because I wanted to show more women from Texas, and that we would work with the Indigenous artists there. I'd put them in a house like I normally did three days they have to co write enough songs for a show, and that we would play that weekend in the igloo. And we did, and the Wall Street Journal made it the cover, and it blew everything up. And that's how I ended up with the Walton Family Foundation. Saw that cover story, a bunch of other people did, and suddenly foundations and philanthropists were contacting me. But, you know, I'm an LLC guy, so I don't know what they want, and if it's a trick or not. And I ended up coming here to do experiments, and I fell in love with the region, and so right up here, and that's really the truth. And the series, I had to wait years because I came here COVID hit. And then by the time I got funded, like someone had seen the trailer, I made this really great trailer of like, the Arctic and all this stuff that's happening. Yeah, it's kind of like an Anthony Bourdain for the years initially. And then I got an offer to fund to do several episodes, and that's how it came together with Stephanie hunt, who's someone I just met a couple years before, but I remembered her face, and when she we were talking, her sister was in the Arctic project. She's a well known musician, too, and I told director Mario Troncoso, who was the director of city of songs the series. I said, you ever, because we were wondering, because Charlie wasn't available and we needed to get started? And I said, You ever heard of Stephanie hunt? And he said, I know her husband, shaky graves, a musician, and she's, she's great, but she, you know, she's in LA, she's doing a lot of, you know, television and movies. And I said, Well, if I had my choice, I get a young woman that my daughter could see that might look like her, so she would see a young woman leading because it was really important for me, because I don't know how to teach that necessarily. I never saw many people you know, on television that were cool, and looked like me, right? And I said, if I had a choice, I'm going to make something like that. And she turned out it was a perfect timing. It was it was grueling. We did six episodes that year, some back to back Barcelona, Sweden, so we could test the crew. And we have a great crew. And then Mario had worked with PBS and had seven seasons of arts in context, which was a show I loved, national show, and he won numerous Emmys, but we were good friends. He's from Spain, and we would hang out in Austin. And he was that quiet guy, and I was the loud guy, but he knew that I'd worked on this for years, and it was the thing I talked about on the side to everyone, and it was probably the thing that people are like, I think he's gone crazy, and I sure don't want to hear about this idea anymore. And He came on board, and we went for it, and now I think it's doing really well, and I'm excited that it's coming out in my home region, you know, oh yeah, so important to me, because I know there's a kid like me where you that's, you know, whatever age gets on their app, or what have you, and see someone and goes, well, these are my people. You

Rodney Veal  48:27

know that, yeah, and I, it's a hard, simple, weird, simplest thing, like it is truly the simple thing we talked about that we talked we it's that simple, folks. It's like, I never saw myself being in this room. I you know, we talked about like I was happy teaching dance. I was happy rolling around the paint and the fountains and the doing the stuff. I mean, that's, I mean, and working and collaborating with some really cool people, but never like that was one of my first with this, doing this, where someone stopped me in my tracks and said, You, you know, my son has never seen someone on TV who looks like you, yeah, not related to crime or sad story. Then I was like, for me, karate, yes. Karate, yeah. And there's like, come on, folks, can we expand our visions a little bit? And so that's important. And I think that this realm, this is the time we're in, it's like, it's important to just authentically, just be us, yeah, and tell the stories, and you're telling the stories. And I love, I love city of songs. I was like, oh, Joan showed she shared with me links. And I was kind of like, I'm in, I'm so I can't wait for people to see it, because I feel like you need to see this. This is you can go to the

Troy Campbell  49:51

app and see the first three have dropped. Barcelona is the latest one. I really love that one. And and then I think the next one is made. The Stockholm is already out in Austin. I think it's probably Seoul. So actually, even though, you know half Korean and grew up, I didn't go on the shoot because I'm also as a producer, like, there's no point in me being there and spending the money when that's an expensive shoot and I'll stay back and go raise money. I mean, that's and I have to show that kind of commitment to the people that are sort of following the vision. But sure was mad about it quietly, like, oh God, couldn't get the next episode, the last one done, if we had, you know, spent six, $7,000 on some travel, and, you know, me overeating in Korea, which would have been, you know, and then walking around just saying, This is so cool. That's great, you know. But

Rodney Veal  50:50

however, you know, you want to, you want the show. This is because it's bringing this. I mean, I think what, I love it, but I love, love, love, absolutely love about it is that you invite us into our process. Yeah. And I think that that is so important for especially for those who are not in a creative realm. You need to, you need to experience the process. You fall

Troy Campbell  51:10

in love with the process. Yes, you suffer less by falling in love with the process, or whatever it is, right?

Rodney Veal  51:18

Yeah, that's, that's a, truly a thing, and so we could go on for hours. But, you know, I know that, you know, but we've, but we can't, but we will, because we'll do it off camera, haha, and off tape. Yeah, yeah. You know, planning a visit, dude,

Troy Campbell  51:36

you're gonna come down. You gotta see Crystal Bridges. Yeah, absolutely, we could hang out there too. I've got a house of songs there, and it's for artists to come and

Rodney Veal  51:45

stay, yeah, and so my thing is, like, you know what I love, what the what this is, that purpose of this show, this podcast, is that it's called Inspired by is, like, what do you tell you've had, you've had this journey, and you've had these opportunities, and you've, you've, you've gone down these pathways, and you're here, you know, you're present and you're you know, we you know there's, there's there, that presence is full and meaningful. What do you tell to somebody whose parents, who may have like not understood the kid with the with the cereal under the bed and the, you know, taking all the cardboard and making buildings like Rodney, building cities on a pool table, much of his father's concern that I destroyed his pool table. But what do you tell those what do you tell those parents who may see this manifestation of this creativity in their kids? Well,

Troy Campbell  52:46

I know that because of my grandmother and my mother for that point, there was at least one person that believed in me, right, that even if I couldn't see it in others, and I've heard that if there's at least one person in that kid's life, whether they have some neurodivergent thing or what have you, or just art, you know, straight up art, they're going to be okay. And you look at them like, look at these things they're solving that we can't even see. Anybody can do that pretty much do anything. And, you know, they look at me because they'll know more, like, all the different things I've done that they didn't see all the years. And sometimes when I talk to artists, I'm like, You better have you know, know that you're going to have to have rejects stamped on your butt, because that's part of being an artist. And the other is, the only rule is, if it's truthful, the right people will like it. So our job is to play truthfully and the right people like it. I don't know how many there are, or who they are, but that is the the equation, right? Everything else is just stuff you make up, but it's truth. And not to sound hoity, toity, but it is, it's it's simple, it's concrete to me as some people's faith, right? It's my faith.

Rodney Veal  53:58

Wow, I agree. I totally agree that I live it. I mean, it's like, I'm like, folks, it's like I was, I was actually twisting paper by way. This morning I was, I was up at five. I really was like, you have to, oh man. It was like, I discovered something with really badly quality, bad quality paper that makes up US magazine. For us, average US magazine has the crappiest paper quality. But if you,

Troy Campbell  54:24

oh, yeah, yeah, what do they use to make? I

Rodney Veal  54:27

don't know. It's like, it's not quite newsprint, but it's not quite it's not quite a full on thick bond paper. And so if you put glue on it, and you roll it and you twist it, I could turn it into spiky horns. And so I was like, Oh, I can make

Troy Campbell  54:45

trademark that friend. Oh,

Rodney Veal  54:47

it's fun. It's fun. Just now, now I can get to that essence of it coming to life. So I can create creatures out of this paper with the weaving. Now, now I just It changed my mind, like perspective of the next. Wave of like things, and I'll go back to the other kind of things I've done, and I showed you things I've done, but it's just like, that's what you do. Is that, like, isn't

Troy Campbell  55:08

it funny the process you come up with for yourself? The was that there's a songwriter that I was a big fan of, and we ended up getting to play with him overseas, Guy Clark, who was a big, bigger than mine, Texas legend, amazing storyteller. He had this thing where they were talking about, what do you do when the Muse isn't there for you? He goes, Well, I have two desks sitting sort of like here and here, and on one is my guitar and my tape recorder on this one, and I have a swivel chair, and on the other one are model ships and boats that I like to make. And so when I get stuck here, I move over to the other and start that, and at some point I go back, and I thought, Wow, that's so much better than sitting around going, I wonder when that guitar is going to tell me it has a song. It's your brain. You know? It's yeah, it needed to do something else for a little while. You gotta, you gotta treat it like you want to be treated, right? Like, give us some space,

Rodney Veal  56:04

you know, give us some space. And good things happen. Beautiful Things happen. Yeah, they

Troy Campbell  56:09

unfold in goodness, right? Yeah, no, I didn't believe that early on. You know, I had pretty serious alcohol and drug problem 30 years ago, and got sober, and I think part of me feels like I got this second life and to work on all that fear stuff and that, that that fraud feeling I had because I knew people would find out that I didn't know what I was doing. And sometimes this, like the show, to me, is like how I'm paying back Austin and Dayton. By, you know, I'm the live music capital world. So I'll say it. It's live music capital. It's arguable, but I think they made a pretty good case by now, but, but the of the world troubled me. Rodney, because how are you of the world if you're not interested in the world? So the show is about going and taking Austin or Dayton. What have you to go be interested, and what could come of that is these bridges that are being built and everything is built on that. The fact that I could watch a guy snap a record in half, which to me, was unfathomable, but then to sit down and create something, or to take the time so I always felt like everything I'm doing is this sort of payback, and that they didn't have to do that. All these people that have been in my life, even some quite famous ones, they didn't have to make the time for me. And we know that just this couple of minutes can change everything.

Rodney Veal  57:32

It's there.

Troy Campbell  57:34

No, I'm sorry I talked, especially if it's someone I just am really interested in, that that kind of keeps things going. Oh no, no, that's why. No, I want to come up back to date and to see my friends, but I want to see your work, but also hang out and, yeah, absolutely, and get something to eat.

Rodney Veal  57:51

Absolutely, and, you know. And the thing is, if you're, you know, if you want to, if you want to, kind of, I've just a music venue that just opened up in downtown called, the bright side,

Troy Campbell  58:01

I've never been to it. I've been to the, oh, actually, place I secret Yellow Cab times and play a little bit, yeah, because I don't play very often, especially where I'm living, I'll play like when I'm working overseas, I'll do a gig or do one occasionally for a benefit, but it's mostly I just don't want to take up space, unless I'm completely into it. I shouldn't be up there. I think,

Rodney Veal  58:26

Oh, well, I think you should be up there. I don't think you'd be taking up space. I mean, the like, you know, Dayton welcomes you with open arms. So let's, let's go have some fun. Love

Troy Campbell  58:35

that. Yeah, they love Dayton, and there are people still I'm working with Nick coz earnest, who's one of my favorite local artists, and we're just working on another doc project. I brought him in on just to so we could hang out and talk, and now we're conspiring to do a project about an artist I really looked up to, Dennis Schlichter, who was sort of avant garde punk, but he was, he was really out there, and we all were in awe of him, but he would create these just outrageous bands and had great songs, and most people don't know about it. And we were just like, why don't we get a group together and cover the song so people can hear it? And he was like, Ah, he doesn't want any attention I get. Well, it's not about him, unity that just wants to hear the songs after 30 years. You

Rodney Veal  59:21

know that really, like, it was the ripple effect of producing those songs. It's a ripple effect of his presence in that kind of creative space, of doing his thing that we now, you know, recite in that's and we're all impacted by that we can't, you know, that's what makes the stories interesting. Because, like, oh, you see the through lines. You see? That's what makes it so cool to watch stories and hear stories from people from other places. It's like there are through lines. They're there, don't you guys, I tell people, don't, you see the threads? Don't you see the connective threads? I see them. All done. They're invisible, but they're not. They're not invisible. They're not, you know,

Troy Campbell  59:59

they're right there. Limited time here. Why aren't we seeing the threads as fast or or at least move towards the idea that learning that language, you

Rodney Veal  1:00:07

know, yeah, as quickly as possible. So that's the thing. I also Yellow Springs Film Festival. I'll connect you.

Troy Campbell  1:00:14

I'd love to come to that, you know, going up there and seeing shows and the radio station was there, yeah. And then to see folks like like Dave Chappelle and some other artists that have come out of there, and occasionally I run into an Antioch artist that that had gone there. And we always had this joke that it was the same, what, same 2000 sort of hippies that were frozen in 1967 they thought every year, and that's really what the college is doing. And that was our punk joke, but it was that you went there, and I thought, boy, if I really could go to college, that probably would have been the one where they just kind of let you figure stuff out.