Arts Photographer Tina Gutierrez

Rodney Veal sits down with acclaimed photographer and artist Tina Gutierrez. Discover Tina's fascinating journey from classical music and fashion entrepreneurship to becoming a celebrated photographer known for her stunning underwater images and powerful portrait series, "America with an Accent."

Learn more about Tina Gutierrez on her website: https://www.tinagutierrezartsphotography.com

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Rodney Veal, Tina Gutierrez

Tina Gutierrez  00:00

I would say it's never too late. I mean, I'd say the obvious thing, it's never too late. What are you passionate about? Is it a cause? What is your cause? What are you passionate about? Take that cause. You just gotta practice it. If you've ever played an instrument, you know that it doesn't happen overnight. It has nothing to do with talent. It has to do with practice, practice, practice. Put your hours in. I practice real hard, because I am not naturally talented. I work really hard at it.

Rodney Veal  00:34

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Rodney Veal's Inspired By podcast. I'm Rodney Veal, the host, and today I get to talk to Tina Gutierrez, who is, well, she's more than just a photographer. I think that's the thing that I find very fascinating about her. She's She has so many interests and so many artistic abilities and outputs. And I was just so fascinated reading your bio and diving into your work and fanboying out on the the imagery, and because that's where I fanboy out she is, I I don't know her as well as only through her work and the words that she's spoken, but wow, she's here on our podcast. So Tina, welcome.

Tina Gutierrez  01:18

Thank you, Ron. Thank you so much for having me. It's really an honor to be here.

Rodney Veal  01:22

It's an it's an honor for us. I mean, I am just like, wow, she took the time out of her day. I'm like, this is all good. So okay, this is kind of like the Hot Tub Time Machine when you go back in time. Because I, for the reason being, I'm always curious, as an art maker myself, what's what was that? What started this journey? I'm just out of curiosity because it is fascinating.

Tina Gutierrez  01:49

That's a really great question. And I do feel, you know, it could be the Add why I have so many interests. I do feel like I'm curiosity driven. I've always been that way. You know, just when we talk about what we want to do when we're kids, and I had wanted to either be a musician or a photographer, and I love dance and, you know, my parents would put us into all kinds of different things, expose us to to many different art forms. Um, but it's an interesting how it is an interesting sort of crazy combination, you know. So I decided I was torn between photography and music, and then I got a full scholarship for classical guitar. So I decided, okay, well, I'm not going to turn that down. Plus, I love music, and I took it and did that for a little while, and but all all along, I was photographing my friends who are musicians and doing headshots and, you know, and also, when I was a kid, my sister and I used to take the sheets off the bed and tie them up. And because I love fashion too, and I do a lot of costuming for and clothes, you know, dressing the people in the photos. And so we'd be tying the sheets up and doing all these different things and draping them around each other, and making hats with

Rodney Veal  03:01

the cats and just just stuff the kids do. I mean,

Tina Gutierrez  03:05

yeah, yeah. And I just never really lost the taste for that. And then later started to wear vintage clothing and learn vintage dance and Tango and so and I studied with this. Also, I had a bridal shop for 24 years too. So fashion, like beautiful fashion, was always

Rodney Veal  03:29

what, yeah, I

Tina Gutierrez  03:32

love fashion so much. And, and I, you know, I wasn't really, honestly, making a great living playing classical guitar. And so I thought, well, what can I do? I come from a family of entrepreneurs. I'm like, What can I do? That is a high ticket item, because I didn't want to keep track of multiple tiny little things. So I thought, I love fashion bridal gowns. I'm going to start a consignment bridal shop. And that's what I did. And then later it became more and more high end, and just started working with all these European designers, and got to really get my hands on beautiful fabrics and tailoring designs. And so I never, yeah, oh, it was just great. And so I never really lost after so I sold that about 15 years ago that I decided, okay, now it's time for the photography phase of my life. And I've been taking pictures of the gowns, and I really just, I'm like, Okay, it's time, it's time to be a photographer. And so I sold the shop, and sort of then combined all those different elements into the photography and the work I do on top of that. You know, I have a really strong social justice bent. Yeah, we're gonna get to that.

Rodney Veal  04:42

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Tina Gutierrez  04:45

So does that kind of answer the question, like,

Rodney Veal  04:49

well, I love that, because it's, you know, because we, well, we've been doing this podcast for, like, this is our third season, and so for me, it's, I have that same curiosity. I'm just always. Like, how did they get started? Because, and what I got was intrigued by, I said when I saw movement as a part of your life and your journey, and I was like, That's my world. You know, I come from a dance background. I well, I started off in visual arts, ended up with a political science degree, visual arts degree, ended up dancing. I mean, you know, it's what I then I'm finding out that a lot of artists that we've talked to all have said kind of similar things, like, well, I did this, but then I did that, and then it led to that, you know, this, the journey was never linear, and that's what I was like, Oh, come on, move it. And then you start. I didn't realize you had a consignment shot from bridal gowns, which was then it kind of morphed into fashion, which I love so we're Tina. We're in

Tina Gutierrez  05:45

well, let me tell you that my main influence in the photograph, oh, I shouldn't touch the laptop and make it shake, but my main influence on the dance and the movement and the alignment aspect of my photography, you probably know this dancer fan Sean sure with her for 10 to 15 years, off and on, and she she's in every photograph I take. And her influence was very powerful in my life, and not just for dance and photography, but just as a human being.

Rodney Veal  06:17

Absolutely, I mean, it was infused. And I know, I know, Frank French on and full cloud disclosure that my audience, I'm the President of the Board of Ohio dance still in my, you know, wearing multiple hats, like you, multiple dresses, coats, however you want to describe it. It just that, that, you know, it's just, you know, looking at the photography of dance and looking at how you capture movement is just, I mean, you you could point a camera at something moving, but to understand how to sculpt movement takes a knowledge and an esthetic awareness, and you have it in speed. Oh, no, like I said, I fan boy out, so I'm one.

Tina Gutierrez  07:04

Well, dance is the hardest thing right to photograph, because the technique has to be like, I really want to be true to the dancers technique. I want to show them in a great light. I get their input, really make sure that they're happy. And, you know, I'm not a ballet dancer, and I do photograph quite a few ballet dancers, so I'm always learning from them about, okay, this, this muscle, this muscle right over the kneecap of my left leg is a little not pronounced enough, like, oh, okay, so learning constantly, learning constantly. But I did get my initial sort of alignment ideas and form and sense of that is dance esthetic from fan Sean,

Rodney Veal  07:42

yeah, yeah. And that's because of but then, like I said, it shows through. And I love this, like, that you still talk about it in terms of, like, learning, like, it's like, okay, it's not like, just you're like, I know how the body moves. No, it's like, you I get the sense that it's not it when I say, like, you know, I'm not just pointing the camera. It's, it's not about comp. It is composition, but it's not composition. It's about presence, and you being present in an in that knowledge base, in that collaborative sense, comes through, not just in the imagery. And, you know, really, really, really

Tina Gutierrez  08:19

does well, it is. It's always a collaboration, I mean, and to get to work with some of the dancers I've worked with is such an honor. And to to not you and you know, everybody is different. Every dancer is completely different. And to not really respect their individual form and their individual style and their body and their their esthetic and their expression is, is, you know, it's just, it's, it's an important, it's a collaboration. It's always a collaboration. It's never me pointing the camera,

Rodney Veal  08:49

yeah, and it comes and I think, and it also translates to the portraits and also trans. I mean, I was just like, I said, you know, I spent a weekend having fun typing into your world. And I was like, I'm loving this well. But the thing is, like, you know you do work is, and I'm kind of curious about because you talk about your roots, your Hispanic roots, and your Appalachian roots, which is I immediately thought of one of my favorite people in the whole wide world, Bing Davis. He's African American, but Appalachian. And he really it is like this. I just find that just juicy and sweet like so what parts of your heritage kind of weave themselves into how you make your work?

Tina Gutierrez  09:37

Oh, gosh,

Rodney Veal  09:39

that's a good didn't expect that.

Tina Gutierrez  09:42

That's a great question. Well, my mom was an artist, and she's the Scotch Irish Appalachian, and so, you know, this attention to detail of really looking deeply and and also, I grew up in the antique business, so my parents were antique dealers, so my mom was always, we were always going to the. Antique shows. And she was always showing us, you know, through her artistic eye, these, these beautiful objects that that we would then buy and sell. And so, yeah, I think the appreciation for art really came from from her and the music I love, of course, I love Celtic, who doesn't right, like Rihanna Giddens. She's one of those sort of African American Appalachian, yeah, yeah,

Rodney Veal  10:36

we're not worthy.

Tina Gutierrez  10:37

Oh, my god, yeah. So she's, she's, she's so great. And I gotta love a friendless banjo with guts and, and then my father, who's from Cuba, is, you know, I got my love of Spanish music and guitar and, and then probably, you know, being fairly pale skinned, was able to have access to both worlds, and he's very dark, and to see how people would when I was younger, I was actually darker, and I had dark hair, and I looked a little more Hispanic, and people treat me very, very different. Now that I have this hair, and it's really in it's just very, very interesting. Now I'm being treated as completely white, and so I have this really special entree into these, both of these worlds, and I think a privilege and a duty to point out what I think should happen, which is, you know, we all get along, and we all have racial harmony. And I'm also trying to unite the parts of myself in these photographs that are so diverse and different and unseen and yet seen, and I don't it's complicated.

Rodney Veal  11:53

Oh, my God, as a person of color, I do understand that complexity. It's like, it's this question. It's all there. I was, I was, I was having this conversation yesterday. I was, I went to the closing of an exhibit for Amina Robinson in Springfield at the Springfield Art Museum. And it was this question of of that complexity was showing up at her work from, I mean, it was a retrospective work, because she's no longer with us. I mean, they had poor portrait drawings that she had had done when she was eight years old, all the way up to these tapestries of material in 2015 when she passed away. It was such a span. I was like, oh, but it, but it was, but it was in, inside of everything, was always the question of this, that that complexity, and I feel like, like, I'm kind of curious about, like, you know, that complexity also drives the social, social justice train in your work, like you like you didn't, you're not running from it. And I'm just kind of curious, like, like, what, what I mean, how do you go from classical music to learning music and a movie and, you know, and fashion turns into the photography. I mean, did were you studying photography the entire time, or was it was just like, I just

Tina Gutierrez  13:19

No, really, I started studying it near the end of my bridal shop career, because I really couldn't afford to hire photographers, and I needed better technique to photograph the gowns and to do the advertising I needed to do. And so I had taken quite a long hiatus from it because, you know, film digital wasn't quite good enough yet, and and film was I just didn't have time, and it was expensive. And so then I had once digital got good enough, I'm like, Okay, it's time for me to take this back up and start learning. And okay, so I would, you know, I studied. I did some weekend workshops. I did study with Michael Wilson, of course, who's again, you know, had some mentors, and the rest of it, I call, I said I went to YouTube University, amazing. You can learn so much on YouTube. It's pretty crazy. I mean, there's there's you can watch Annie Leibovitz working, who is one of my also main photography influences, Peter Lindberg, you know, all these amazing photographers there's, there's so much to learn on there. And I'm so so very, very grateful and being curious, you know, that lends oneself to going down the YouTube rabbit hole. But I really am so thankful, because when I was a kid, you know, we didn't have, we didn't even have we didn't even have internet, so, oh, I know

Rodney Veal  14:45

the library, you know, it's like, which is so different for this current generation. And and I love the fact that you just like, oh, let me learn it. I mean, it's not a you're not it's I'm. Searching for the words for not to like to insult those who went and got degrees and I have degree. I mean, no, everybody's journey is different. And so it's like, I think it's really nice to be able to say, Hey, folks, just pick it up. Give it a whirl, see where it takes you. But it's not art. I mean, like, you've got to just make the investment of time and energy and just making the space for it. And so I, you know, it's like, I just get like, Wow, I love YouTube university, because, well, I was really funny, because I, because I, I grew up in, you know, man of a certain age, at 60, I didn't learn all the techniques of making art, like, I learned the basics of it. But I mean, there's a difference. Like, it's

Tina Gutierrez  15:51

true, it's true, and I'm like, missing, I feel definitely I have parts missing, yeah, and, but you're

Rodney Veal  15:55

still trying to, like, you're trying to accumulate the parts, but in the interim, your body of work does not belie. It's, it's the talent of the eye. It's a talent. Like, do you do trust? Like, are you looking through the lens, trusting your instincts? Are you? It's not just technique, because I could tell it's just not. It's not just technique. There's, I'm curious about your intuition.

Tina Gutierrez  16:21

Well, so I do have a process and, and so, yeah, I try to get the technical things set up and out of the way first. And then I, you know, I'm looking at alignment. Is the body aligned first? When I work with a client or a subject, I go through a series of movement exercises, some Feldenkrais and Alexander to get them to relax, to align the spine. We especially, actually with dancers, because dancers are used to stage face, right, like, which is very, very different than photo face like, stage face is big and it's to the world and to project, yeah, but is an intimate thing. And if you do stage plays to the photograph, it ain't gonna work. We go scare people. It is, yeah, and not just with dancers, but anybody you know, there's this idea of what they're supposed to look like. And I have to get, I could get through that mask of what it's supposed they any kind of preconceived idea of what it's supposed to look like, and just get them to this natural, relaxed state where you know that because our jaw as soon as a camera gets put pointed in front of somebody's face, our jaw clenches up, and our eyebrows go like This, because that's a natural state of fear or surprise. That's a little scary, right? And I might be a little scary. It is intimidating. It really is. So I will go through like, 20 minutes, at least 20 minutes of these exercises, and really work with them. And it's very, very a lot of people are like, Oh, this is really therapeutic. And I feel so relaxed now and then throughout the session, I'll remind them, okay, relax the job. Relax the eyebrows, you know. And there might be some other parts of the face that, like sometimes somebody might have a most people have an asymmetrical face, and it's usually because there's something like mine is on this side. If you look real close while I'm talking, probably notice there's more lines in my face on this side. So really observing the patterns in the face and getting to then, okay, have the person relax that side of the face might be tense. This side a little bit. There's just all these different, all these different, oh, you learned over the years, I'm obsessive. I might be okay. I'm a little bit of a geek,

Rodney Veal  18:42

but you're a lot of potatoes. I feel like that's, you know, who does I mean, I, I call myself a nerd. I'm like the art nerd, the ultimate art nerd, like to do. I get to do this for a living. I get to talk to artists and explore their art making and make my own and, oh, I mean,

Tina Gutierrez  19:03

I want to be, if I wasn't knees, I would be Terry Gross. I would be Terry Gross. I

Rodney Veal  19:10

love it. So I'm very curious about because the underwater photography, it's like, Oh, come on. I mean, I mean, I, I'm like, wow, what? I mean, What? What? Jump started that I mean, oh, God, jumping in the pool. So, so to speak.

Tina Gutierrez  19:33

Yeah, I always love water. I did already know how to scuba dive, and I saw this. There was this Australian photographer, and most many people have seen this photograph. She, she's most known for this photograph of a horse underwater looking up and and then I later saw her Australian Xena Holloway. I saw her photographs of these, I believe, Japanese pearl. Divers, and that was the first time I'd seen anyone photographed underwater that was looking for beauty, right in his human being. It was always animals, or John, you know, I grew up watching Jacques Cousteau,

Rodney Veal  20:14

so right, there's a whale or Dolph, you know, yeah,

Tina Gutierrez  20:18

never really thought about the human form until I saw her work, and I'm like, oh, oh, oh, this is it. I have to do this. I have there was no question whether I was going to do it or not. It just had to happen. And I and, you know, this is how I usually approach things. I'll want to do something. And then I find out, Oh, I don't know what I'm doing. I I've got a lot to learn, so I have to choose things I'm really, really passionate about, because otherwise and underwater was one of them. It was like, I don't care what it takes, I'm gonna figure it out. And it was unbelievable, the most difficult thing I've ever done, because they're just so many variables, and the water presents not only, you know, obstacles, but danger and to and so I really on the with those images, I'm working with very high level dancers who I honestly, I think that these dancers, you know, are some are probably the only human beings on The planet, who could do that, that kind of imagery, because they have such discipline and control over their bodies. And then next is the face to be able to relax. The face underwater, when you're getting you got water your eyes and your nose, and it's uncomfortable, right? But dancers, you know, they're trained to handle discomfort and to look

Rodney Veal  21:43

like it just like it's effortless, like there's a sense of and that's what I was that's what I was drawn to when I looked at those photographs, of how you got that sense of serenity. Yeah, well, we over.

Tina Gutierrez  21:55

We do it a million times. I'm constantly showing them the photographs, so I'm under there with them. I have a lot of people ask I have a custom housing made for my camera, so it's a high end professional camera with a custom housing. So I have lots of all the controls, the manual controls. I have sometimes strobes. I have assistants on the deck with reflectors, or I'm using underwater strobes, and so we surface when they every two or three breaths. Then I come and show them what we've done, and they can see, you know, the dancer can self correct, and I'll give coaching, and I have a certain style that I do like, and I'll try to coach that style. And and they can see that they're, you know, they're, there's bubbles coming out of their nose and that their mouth is, or they're going on gross, or they could, I mean, I don't, you know, they can see it, right?

Rodney Veal  22:49

And so, I mean, so do you keep going? Keep going?

Tina Gutierrez  22:53

Okay, well, so, and the other thing is, dancers also don't have a lot of body fat, so they tend to sink. And so we really want to keep them as close to the surface as possible, because that's where the light is really pretty. But the lower you get, the more loss of light and color you get. So that's their struggle. And they they also say it's the hardest thing. They they had no idea how hard this was going to be, but, but it's a testament to their skill and training and persistence. They don't stop. They don't stop. I mean, I've had people ask me, Well, why don't you do this form, or maybe yoga? I'm like, No, those people are, you know, they're trained to stop when they're just uncomfortable.

Rodney Veal  23:34

You got to push it to the extreme. Come on.

Tina Gutierrez  23:37

So I really think those highly trained dancers. They're just super human. I'm so in awe of their ability.

Rodney Veal  23:45

So, so are you filming? Are you filming this in Cincinnati? Yeah, where? How do you Well, I

Tina Gutierrez  23:52

am at the mercy of who will lend me their private heated pool. So if you know anybody, and anybody listening or watching and it should be, you know, has to be, it has to be a private pool. Can't do it because we take over the pool. I need it for a couple days. Have access to bathrooms, yeah. So if anybody out there,

Rodney Veal  24:12

Southwest Ohio, they might get a free and they and they absolutely should do it for that reason alone. You gonna have this fabulous work of art. And so I, you know this, it's, I love the fact that you talk about, like I had to figure it out, and it takes this time. And I think, I always think that the the most effortless photographs are the ones that are invested with so much thought. Like, do you like you've taken out the once you've thought it through, then once you're in there, then it can happen. Versus, oh, I'm gonna force it. You're like, they don't. Nothing seems forced. And of course, I'm seeing the final product. I'm seeing the final product, 3000 the ones are right. Okay, that didn't work. I. Me. So what is your Edit process like when you once you do, you know,

Tina Gutierrez  25:05

it's the calling, the getting rid of all the bad stuff that takes the longest. I mean, because there is, there's, you know, with movement, especially, you have to take so many more pictures than anything else, because that micro second of a point being perfect or not perfect is right waiting, or the face being in the right position. So it's it's any that happens faster than the eye can see, and I have learned to anticipate, like when the apex of the movement will come. But then also, sometimes it's the going into the movement that can be interesting, or the coming off of it that can also be really interesting. Personal Image, as opposed to this professional looking image, and some, some of those I really love to, I'm sorry, what was the question?

Rodney Veal  25:50

What was about the calling? It's

Tina Gutierrez  25:51

about this, like, what? Yeah, the calling, and then getting it down to just, you know, okay, which four or five or six do I think are going to be the most impactful? And then I start to begin the retouch process, which underwater, there's so much particulate in the water that each piece has to be hands. So we're still not to a point where, at least I don't know how to get to the point where I can just remove that back. I mean, you can do the removal of the background, but then it kind of looks like that's what you did. And I wanted to really them to be in the space that that they were in. And so I'm meticulously hand retouching each tiny little dust particle and to and it makes me crazy, and I'm glamorous. You know, people see the photo, the finished photo, they're, like, glamorous and like, no, it's actually, it's a lot of water up the nose, and then it's a lot of, but it's worth it. It's worth it,

Rodney Veal  26:52

but it's worth it. But I think that that's every, I mean, I think that's every artist I've ever talked to it, even in the other fields and genres. It's the it's the it's it's the stuff where, where the I've talked to con comedians, and the process they go through of kind of testing out material before it ever really gets and they're constantly tweaking it and refining it. I'm thinking, Oh my God. I didn't realize just how they depend on journals and writing. I'm like because you we think it's performative, so just automatically emanates. Oh,

Tina Gutierrez  27:29

no, I'm going to attribute to my music training to knowing that if I just keep at it, it will happen so that 10,000 hours of sitting alone in a practice room and the discipline of playing those scales over and over and over and over and over again in my earlier life has I feel like, really, I don't know that I would have kept going with the photography to the point, you know, with some of these images, other than I know that if I just keep going and practicing, that it will get better, so that that's and dance, you know, dance, you know, that, like, it's the same thing practice, practice. It isn't just practice. It's, you know, practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent. So finding, thank you for saying that one Oh, finding teachers and mentors that will you know the highest who are the highest quality, caliber people I can surround myself with Who will give me authentic, positive and honest feedback. So, yeah,

Rodney Veal  28:45

that is, that is such a real. I mean, there's only, I don't know about you, because, I mean, for me personally, I only have a, there's, like, only two, yes,

Tina Gutierrez  28:57

photo focus.

Rodney Veal  28:58

Photo focus. Well, that's a good question. I mean, like, it's good for people to understand, like, you have to get feedback on your work, and there's only, like, there's only like, two people I trust to look at the works that I create, to kind of really have the honest conversation with me about where this is headed, where, like, you know, with the work and I and it's really fascinating that, you know, I discovered that through this podcast. Oh, that's what you've been doing. Oh, photo folk. You know that. So who would photo focus is your fair go to person? I mean, is it? Is it just

Tina Gutierrez  29:35

photo focus has really been more of there are people within that that I will share my work with and friends that I've made, and teachers, but the organization itself has been very supportive of my work. They provide these opportunities for me to and everybody who goes to the, you know, the festival and the events that they do, to have access to these famous photographers and their. Work and to to learn, especially, you know, this was a mid, mid to slightly later life career, you know, as not a kid entering school and learning in a traditional way. I can't say enough about them, and it's mostly free, you know,

Rodney Veal  30:19

I say other than great

Tina Gutierrez  30:23

organization, go, go see everything they do, and take your friends. I mean, it's the best.

Rodney Veal  30:29

And I wrote, I was telling someone that

Tina Gutierrez  30:33

probably backwards, but here's the mug, here's the mug.

Rodney Veal  30:36

Well, I'm laughing because, well, one of these, I wrote a story about photo focus. And said, Folks, where else in the world could you take half of a state, a chunk of a state, Southwest Ohio, and go to all these different locations and see all these different types of representation of the photographic medium in these different communities? Take it all you could turn it into literally, a field trip vacation.

Tina Gutierrez  31:03

It's, I have a friend who goes all of them, and you can barely do it. It's so much. It's so rich, it's so diverse. It's everywhere. It tries to include everyone. And I cannot say, I just cannot say, Enough,

Rodney Veal  31:17

yeah, yeah. And I don't think all of all places southwest Ohio, Cincinnati, Dayton. I mean, we're talking, it's, it's a large geographic footprint. I just like, I'm just, I'm just in awe of them, and I can't wait to their building to be finished. It's like, the dream. It's like, oh, because it was like, it's right across the street from Gabriel's corner, which I look because I performed at Gabriel's corner. I've done Cincinnati French, I and so every time I come out go, one day, I'll be able to do French and go across the street look at some photos.

Tina Gutierrez  31:53

I got out of my car the other day and walked around the building and I touched it, just because I'm so excited, I'm like, touching the building

Rodney Veal  32:02

the best. It's like,

Tina Gutierrez  32:03

it's beautiful. Oh my god, the brickwork is like it the building. I think they wanted it to the quality the building with Jose Garcia as the architect, they wanted the quality of the building to reflect the quality of what they bring to the table. And it does. It? Does

Rodney Veal  32:21

it is high level when I yep, I don't think people understand. I'm

32:25

Bonnie miles, membership coordinator of CET. Thank you for listening to Rodney veils, inspired by this podcast is a production of CET, and think TV to local PBS stations as PBS stations, the work we do online, on air and in the community is supported by listeners like you. If you're enjoying the show and would like to support our work, please consider becoming a member at CET connect.org or think tv.org Plus, when you sign up to donate at least $5 a month, you'll get access to special members only streaming videos on the PBS app through passport. Learn more at CET connect.org or think tv.org If

Rodney Veal  33:06

you're enjoying this conversation, the art show, also hosted by Rodney veal, is available to stream anytime from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app. So now we're going to shift it to the because I you know there's this whole series of social change and stressful justice, how, as an art maker and some interesting times, we'll just leave it at that. We are like, Why? Why? You know, because there, I mean, I know some folks who love to go see art, but they which I never understood the phrase. But, you know, arts, art shouldn't be political. But I'm like, well, our art why not? And it's every like it's all political, because it's all based in society and culture, which is political, but, but as a poli sci person, I digress. So

Tina Gutierrez  33:54

I like that keep going.

Rodney Veal  33:59

So I like your work does that. And there's, there's a one like, What drew you? Like, what, what, what compelled you, I guess is the question. To say that this is the kind of work that you also want to do. It goes beyond just, yeah,

Tina Gutierrez  34:14

well, my parents were kind of a little bit of activist when I was a kid. So I think there's a bit of growing up with with that that's an important thing, that that one should try to make the world a better place. And I started, I, you know, it's, and it's a heart for me, it was a very hard thing to, okay, what is my first project going to be? And how is it? And because I started as an older, mature, I don't know, okay, middle aged, you know, person. I'm 62 so I just so I really wanted to focus on what I saw as the solution and not as the problem. Oh, wow. And so to me, that was about showing the beauty of diversity. This. The beauty of people interacting harmoniously together, and what does that world look like that we want to live in, or I want to live in it anyway. Oh, and here, here's an interesting thing, like when we look at the history of Western art, and, you know, we talk about it same, same use terms apply to music, the good art. We got balance, we have form, we have color, we have variation, rhythm, all these different things. So what's missing? When you look at the people in Western art, they're all white, right? We're missing color. It's, it's, it's a flaw that we have gotten used to seeing and not pointing out. And so I really like to point that out, and let's change it. Let's reclaim it. And artists out there, everywhere, no matter what color you are or aren't, think about that like, are you contributing to the solution, or are maybe you continuing the in an unconscious way, continuing the bias. Yeah, like, I think if we say an artist often are, you know, very social justice minded, and yet, how can you use your art to put beauty in the way, in into the world, but in a way that serves everyone,

Rodney Veal  36:20

hmm, and well, and also to that, I think that goes to piggybacking on this, because I feel like that's the, that is the when I say, How can you say art? You know, oh, I don't want to look at art this political, or it's too political. It's like, No, it's all political. Beauty is politics. I mean, there's a, I mean, who like it goes back to what you said about, you know, how you navigate the world and the complexity of heritages. It's all there if you pay attention,

Tina Gutierrez  36:54

yeah, to be blind to it, or we can choose to see it. And it's, it is they're absolutely there 100%

Rodney Veal  37:01

Yeah. And it's 1,000% and so there's this beautiful series of works, and I'm it's the ones where you've taken these beautiful, almost Renaissance like photographs that incorporate, clearly the culture of the sitter, as well as the backdrop being having sort of this formalist. I mean, I got in see partner, little partner. They were portraits of women. And I just found it very fascinating how it felt like, to your point, these are women of color. These are definitely women who were not of European descents, but they, you captured them in such a regal state that I just kept staring at the photos. I was like, Oh. I was like, Go Tina. Go, Go Tina, go on that background. So that's what your classical music roots come in. Did it well?

Tina Gutierrez  38:00

I started out as classical guitar, but now I primarily play early music, lute and Renaissance guitar. So the Baroque and Renaissance is a huge, huge and I've always loved that art anyway. And when you look at the, you know, those artists clearly study movement and alignment and that Greek forms, those Greek forms of, you know, contrappus do. It's all about the balance and the form and in so what was question

Rodney Veal  38:33

that talk about how, you know, it's like the fact that is you early, that's the thing. You still do music.

Tina Gutierrez  38:39

Yeah, I do. I do. I love, I It's often on. It's hard to serve all these muses, but it's music will never leave what I do and I work, I do, work on it and try to, I've always wanted to combine music and visual, and I'm still working on how to do that. It's a little trickier, but, oh, so, yeah. So I really. So this series, it's called America with an accent over the E. So America can be a woman's name, but it can also be a place in America with the accents gives it, I think, is a nice sort of name and sort of and so the series is about the identity of Latina and Hispanic women in basically, in the U are there people I know? So there's, you know, it's Southwestern Ohio. A few people have come in from out of town, and I've gotten to photograph them. But women of all heritages, all heritages, heritages.

Rodney Veal  39:32

Yeah, their heritages. It works, yeah, it works. It works

Tina Gutierrez  39:35

from different places. And I, we talk on the phone. I get their story. We do a big interview. I talk about, you know, if there was an in each are pictured with a natural eye, like an animal or a plant or something, just just to show the nurturing, feminine quality of women. And then, and then I, you know, I'm a huge fashion person, so I. Thrifted all of these clothes, and I'll put them together in cost, I'll put I'll set, I'll make costumes, or I'll symbol costumes in a way that look like the that were in the Renaissance or the Baroque. But really it's mostly 1980s and 90s clothing symbol in a way that's, you know, interesting.

Rodney Veal  40:20

I never have thought that those are close from the eight like you did good Tina,

Tina Gutierrez  40:29

you might, there might be, you know, some of the people in your life may own pieces of like that in a wardrobe. And it's just, you know, I've just always loved clothes and assembling them and putting together unusual outfits. And I always make historical references or ethnic references in in like, the outfit, like, you know, I try to dress that way too. Sometimes just have a nod to a different period, or a nod to a different country, or I just think it's, it's makes it just makes dressing more fun. And, you know, it just, I like to be conscious of other cultures and and eras and so anyway. So yeah, so those are, and then the backgrounds are all like sort of Renaissance inspired. I like to think there's an element of magical realism in there too. Um,

Rodney Veal  41:18

Isabella, Linda. I mean, yes, Marquez,

Tina Gutierrez  41:23

those people, and those were and those, you know, those artists, and because the images are a little surreal, but they also look like Renaissance or broke, but they're clearly not right. And so it's a reclamation series. It's about putting these women back into the into history in a way that's positive and healing. And so we'll, you know, it'll take a couple hours to do these shoots, and we'll, we will cry together. We will laugh together. We will talk about, you know, their upbringing and discrimination, and what does it mean to be his? What does it mean to be Hispanic or Latina, or whatever term they may identify with in in this world right now? And how does that and in the changing political environment, especially, especially right now.

Rodney Veal  42:17

And so you, you, I just love the fact that you how you describe it. It's like this. I mean, it's this. I can't even imagine, as a sitter, I couldn't even imagine this notion of that collaborative and in order, because it just comes across with so much emotion. And I'm just thinking and beauty, which why I that's the other part, I, you know, I'm an aestheticist, so I said it out loud, matter esthetics. Matter people. Sorry,

Tina Gutierrez  42:51

totally on board.

Rodney Veal  42:52

Come on. Come on, people, come on. I need to, I mean, you could be conceptual and but you gotta understand how we take in visually things and even the rawness and but, but there's a refinement to but it's, but it's beyond just the surface refinement, because you described it. You laughed together, you cried together. These women are sharing who they were, and you captured it. I'm just like, ooh, so is there a different like, do the because clearly the technical skills of the other types of the underwater photography is vastly different from the sitting with the portraits. Or is it about the same? I don't know.

Tina Gutierrez  43:39

There's still the alignment. There's still the alignment has to be just right. There's this thing that happens, you know, when that so, so in both of those, I will go through the whole facial exercise thing with both of them. So we're starting trying to get to a relaxed state, and then. But there's this thing that happens and more so in the portrait, because I do like eye contact in the portrait, it's harder to get that underwater. But there's this thing that once the spine is aligned and the face is relaxed, there's this thing that happens in the eyes that connects. It's it's in the studio, and in person, it's absolutely powerful. And I know the second it happens, and it takes a while to get to it, but when it happens, it's, it's unbelievably powerful. And it it, I am constantly shocked when it happens, it's like a jolt of electricity. I'm like, there it is, there it is, it's, that's, that's that that's the moment, or the look, or the that connection. I don't like to use the word connection, because everybody uses that in it, but it's true, but it's, it's real, it's, it's so real. And there's this almost primal thing that comes through. That's so human, then I'm addicted to it. I gotta have it.

Rodney Veal  45:08

So let me show you, once you can watch like, do you stop once you see it? Once you got it? No, you keep trying. I call

Tina Gutierrez  45:16

it an insurance. I think I've got it, but I, I also, if they've got time, and I've got time, I kind of want to see where else it could go, because I can set up all these control parameters and, you know, but then sometimes things can happen that I don't expect, and I want to allow for that so, and I want the insurance pictures too, just in case. Because you just, you know, I tell my students don't trust that that camera is in focus until you double check it 10 times. You know, even if you it's manual, even if you're doing everything you were supposed to do, double check it. Double check it. Double check it over again. It's you just don't know what could go you know, you can't even imagine all the things that can go wrong.

Rodney Veal  46:07

Well, yeah, and, and, I think, I think we've been lulled into this, this sense of, oh, how easy it is, if with these lovely devices of capturing imagery. But it's not the same. It is just, it's not the same. And I firmly, yeah, it's like, it serves its purpose, but it's usually, it is not the device. It never is the device. I always tell people all the time, it's like, it's not the device, it's the person using the device. Their humanity in using the device has to override everything else, and that's how it comes through. Otherwise, like, yeah, I it's something that it's not a device. Well, it kind of is and using your body, and it's the thing. It's a phrase that I'm probably going to get slapped for in the dance world. I used to call it dead girl on point, and it was technically, oh, everything is right where it needs to be. But I'm feeling nothing. I feel nothing, and I know it's in you because you I've seen you laugh, I've seen you cry, I've seen you struggle, I've seen you work it through. Can I Get that through your performance. And it would always, as a teacher, always a shock. You know that they're like, oh, it's yes. It's more than just perfection. It's the connection that phrase,

Tina Gutierrez  47:31

the embodiment

Rodney Veal  47:34

of yes, that's the word, there you go. Yeah,

Tina Gutierrez  47:37

just beyond technical, and that's where the artistry comes in. Is, is, is, yeah, you are as a dancer, you are the art, you are it and but there's different states of artistic embodiment that we can check out, we can phone it in, or we can be fully present. And depending on how the day went, there's all kinds of various levels of that.

Rodney Veal  47:59

And that's why it's so important to like, Well, the thing is, it's the time and timing. I mean, I think your story, to me is about the timing of when to shift into this world of creation that you're, you're, you've become, have come to be known for is, is really important. And I think so, as we were coming to the end, see, it was almost an hour, not even I

Tina Gutierrez  48:25

can't believe it, all day long. This is really

Rodney Veal  48:30

fun. I told you conversational. I love I love talking about art. So, so, and then the process is so I'm kind of curious, what would you tell someone who may think that it's too late, that you can't make a shift and pivot into this creative realm. I mean, what would

Tina Gutierrez  48:49

you tell them? I would say it's never too late. I mean, I'd say the obvious thing, it's never too

Rodney Veal  48:52

late. I mean, Adam, please

Tina Gutierrez  48:56

really just get on YouTube. Find, well, find something you're passionate about that you will work hard at. What are you passionate about? Is it a cause? Like, for I do a lot of ideation stuff, you know, maybe a lecture here or there about ideation for students like, what is your cause? What is are you passionate about? Take that cause and then use the iPhone. I mean, I shouldn't be down on iPhone third grade, but, but use that iPhone and find a way to promote your cause. And through that, go on YouTube and learn some techniques. Learn iPhone photography, whatever camera you've got is good. They're all good. I hate talking about gear, because you know what? They're all good. Use the one you've got. Go on YouTube, type in whatever it is, and listen to some experts on how to get better at it. It just the technique isn't as hard as you would think. It's just, you just got to practice it. If you've ever played an instrument, you know that it doesn't happen overnight. It has nothing to do with talent. It has to do with practice. Practice, practice. Put your hours in. I am I practice real hard because I am not naturally. Talented. I work really hard at it, and I find that, you know, when people say, Oh, you're talented, it's almost a little insulting, actually. No, I work my butt off.

Rodney Veal  50:13

I saw that sensor.

Tina Gutierrez  50:18

I wasn't born with any of this. And I don't think people are, if you read, you know, Malcolm Gladwell, I always recommend read Malcolm Gladwell. What is tipping point about, you know, these people, we think are naturally gifted, like Mozart and Tiger Woods. And they started as babies back, you know, with they had mentors, and they had their 10,000 they had their 10,000 hours in between by the time they were four or five or seven years old. So of course, they seem like these miracles. No, yeah,

Rodney Veal  50:49

you got to put the time in. You have I tell people. I it was, I was telling someone the other day, and we're talking about dancing, and I said I finally understood it and embodied it. And it was time to retire. I was like, like, Why? Why? Oh, God, I wish I was 2022, again. Like, nope, nope. You're, you know, but that still impermeates Everything I do. It's like, even this conversation, even like doing the podcast, it's all there. It's like, you know, I tell people like, you know, usually is never too late. It's, it's all there. And I love how you talk about technique. And so I think people get kind of freaked out about technology. A camera is intimidating, but it's just a tool. It's

Tina Gutierrez  51:37

just a tool. And you know what I don't use? I use aperture, ISO, shutter speed, three things. That's all I use on that camera. Learn those three. Just learn them. I mean, they are hard to learn all three as it and play them like an instrument, but it's not that hard. It's not that hard like anybody can do it. I swear it's that's not the hard part. The hard part is, what's your vision? What's your idea? You know working on? What are you passionate about? How can I show that? That's the harder part that takes so much more mental energy than and learning, than the technique. It's just for in photography. Now, you know other art forms, I think it's music, like for, for instance, dance that that's the body has to have the 10,000 hours

Rodney Veal  52:26

it has to, but you're but I think that that universal first little thought process is applicable. I mean, I definitely it's, I think I genuinely believe in that. I That's why I was like, Oh, I couldn't wait to talk to you, Tina. It's like, I think, Oh, I think we're simpatico about this was like, oh, and isn't that funny? Like you, you can sense. That's why, I hope from these conversations, this can especially this conversation that, oh, piss, it's there. Go reach, seek out. Seek out. Go touch the photo. Focus building your hand. There's a

Tina Gutierrez  53:04

cornerstone there. Just touch that one like that. Just touch it.

Rodney Veal  53:09

And I highly encourage everybody in this who's listening this, seek out Tina's work, because she is. She's about it, about it, about it. So Tina, this is lovely. This was a lovely conversation. Thank

Tina Gutierrez  53:23

you. Oh, I've enjoyed it so very, very much. Thank you. Thank you. I just it's been such a pleasure and an honor, and I wasn't expecting it to be this much fun. I was a little nervous, actually, but Thank you for making it just you.