Irene Rodriguez - Choreographer

In this compelling episode of "Rodney Veal's Inspired By," host Rodney Veal welcomes internationally acclaimed flamenco dancer and choreographer Irene Rodriguez. The conversation delves into Irene’s early dance training in Cuba, her passion for flamenco, and her journey to the United States.

Follow Irene on social media: @irenerodriguezcompania

Learn more about Irene: www.IreneRodriguezCompania.com

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Irene Rodriguez, Ad, Rodney Veal

Rodney Veal  00:00

Rod Hello, everyone. My name is Rodney Veal and I'm the host of Rodney Veal's Inspired By I'm super excited today because I get to have a conversation with someone who is in the world of dance, and I know that everyone in the community knows I come from the world of performing arts and dance as my background as an art an artist and art maker. But what's really exciting is that our guest is here in the Miami Valley at in Dayton, and she's come in to choreograph the opera Carmen for the Dayton Performing Arts Alliance and the Dayton opera and but she has a Storied Life and career as a internationally renowned flamenco dancer and someone who is a force of nature. And I've seen the videos of her work and her dancing, and it is dynamic and compelling and contemporary, and I can't wait to ask a lot of questions, so I'm super excited to have Irene Rodriguez here on our podcast. So Irene, welcome to the Rodney Veal's inspired by podcast.

Irene Rodriguez  01:15

Thank you so so much for inviting me. Is a huge pleasure being talking with you and been enjoying this amazing city, and of course, being a part of the opera Carmen.

Rodney Veal  01:27

 I love it. I love it. We're going to get to Carmen, because I know that that's a part of our conversation, for sure. But I want to know, like I watched a really lovely video as I was doing research into your background. It's like you started out in your mom wanted you to do ballet. And I, you know, coming from the ballet background, which I loved. And the story was so adorable that you had you skipped a ballet classes to take flamenco. So talk about 

Irene Rodriguez  01:55

but there is another, there is another story. 

Rodney Veal  01:58

Oh, tell us. 

Irene Rodriguez  02:00

I started studying piano. I had look at my head. Okay, so I always love music, art in general, and I started studying piano. And after 40 years of professional piano education, I start dancing in the school, and I was so attracted by dance, and my mom enrolled me in ballet lessons once a week. The first day I took my first ballet lesson, I returned home and said to my mom, Mom, this finger is on vacation today, so I cannot practice. I cannot do my practice of two hours after school that I used to do daily, because this finger is on vacation and I will be dancing tonight. And my mom, she said it was funny, okay, okay, so I spent the whole night dancing the second day. Mom, I cannot practice tonight because this finger is on vacation. It wasn't so funny the second night, but the third night, mama said, You know what, if you're going to put the third finger on vacation, I prefer you put the tense in the same day, or no more piano, and you get focused on ballet. I said, You know what? I love dancing. So, yes, I prefer to be dancing. So that is why I start like professionally in the ballet school. And later, the story that you know that I used to escape my ballet lesson some days and go to the next studio they were where they were teaching flamenco. My roots in my family. They all came from Spain to Cuba, so of course, that is the music I grew up listening, and I felt so attracted by the food war and the rhythm and the props, and I used to escape. And one day, the teacher went down the stairs and said, Who is the mom of this girl? My mom said, Oh, teacher is me, but Irene is not the flamenco student. She's a baller student. She said, that is what you think. Irene has been taking my classes for three months now, so you owe me some money. That was my beginning in flamenco.

Rodney Veal  04:30

I love it. I mean, I'm sure your mother was like, okay, yes,

Irene Rodriguez  04:35

well, we had it. We had a treat, saying, like, Okay, you finish your ballet school, and at the same time you can take this flamenco lesson. So that is what I did. I finished my ballet school, but I was still my soul and heart was still with this Spanish dance work.

Rodney Veal  04:54

I love it, and so, so you were hooked. You got it. You got it. You got that. You were in. In to flamenco, and so you're off to the races. You are just in it. So how I mean, talk about what that How old were you when you started that flamenco dance training?

Irene Rodriguez  05:11

I won't tell you my age. 

Rodney Veal  05:13

Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm like a man should never do that.

Irene Rodriguez  05:20

We started ball education professionally when we are between eight and nine years old in Cuba. Remember, I'm Cuban, right?

Rodney Veal  05:29

Exactly, I know I did. I did notice that, because I have some questions about that as well.

Irene Rodriguez  05:33

I was born, I grew up and developed my career professionally in Cuba, and I, you know, moved to the US only six years ago.

Rodney Veal  05:43

Only six years ago, really, oh, my goodness. Oh my gosh. So I have a question, because it was like, you know, so, you know, starting at eight, between ages of eight and 10. I mean, I mean that means, you know, I know the ballet training, you know, it's pretty much once you decide to do it, it becomes, every day. It becomes, you know, for the ballet perspective, it's like six days a week and only one day off for Sunday, you know, that sort of thing. So were you doing this every day, all the day, all the time?

Irene Rodriguez  06:11

Oh, yes, this is, this is a religion. This is something that you really need to be very committed, and you need to laugh. So for me, it's a passion. For me, I don't I don't sit as a job, I said, as something that I really like to do. And of course, besides my training as a dancer, like the ball lessons, flaming lessons. I go to the gym and I go and it's my happy place. You know? I It's not like I'm going to work. I never say I'm going to work. I say I'm going to dance, and that is so beautiful. I don't see what I do as a work.

Rodney Veal  07:02

It's work, but

Irene Rodriguez  07:03

it's sometimes you don't feel good, physically, mentally, spiritually, but your discipline move you forward and keep you on the track. So that is something really important. I have a school in Tampa, based in Tampa, Florida, and that is really, that is something that I really try to make parents understand, even if the students, the kids, are not going to be professional dancers in the future, learning dance and being in the art world made them develop. Not only, you know this conditions as an artist and physical preparation, if not the discipline and the commitment in life, so I always suggest to enroll kids in Art Education.

Rodney Veal  07:56

Oh, I'm so glad. Yay. That is but that is something I think, you know, having done this podcast, and I had a podcast interview with a visual arts teacher instructor this morning, and it's the same thing. It's like, you know, it's they may not, we may not be training them to be professional artists, but they're going to have discipline, they're going to have this curiosity. We're going to teach them how to explore their creativity, how to work with others. I mean, dance is, you know, the thing is, you're working in this very it's a very passionate art form, and it's rhythmic. It isn't physically demanding. I am. I don't think people understand that that rhythm is coming through your lower half of your body into the floor. I mean, oh, you know, ballet is all about trying to get off the ground. And it's like, you're into the ground, and it's kind of earthiness. And I just like, I enjoy,

Irene Rodriguez  08:51

yeah, I enjoy a lot the food gourd. The Food gourd part, I feel so identified with making music, with my body, with the food core at the same time is like it's a process is is so difficult to explain, but it's such a beautiful process, because your your mind, your soul, is making the music, is creating the music. And at the same time, when you are doing it and you're playing it, that music comes back to your ears and mind heart. So it's a process like this. Is so beautiful. I you know is, is, is very difficult to explain, but you are making art, and at the same time you're receiving it. Is, is so beautiful. Your own body is your instrument.

Rodney Veal  09:39

And it's one of those things where you things where it's, like you said, you're embodying it. It's coming into the body, it's coming through. And so what I find very fascinating is that a lot of times, I mean, I kind of curious about how much live music you use with flamenco, because that is such a integral part of it. It is. It. It's just, it's just really something. It's about that partnership, that relationship music and the musician and this other human being who's made like, oh, it's, it's always

Irene Rodriguez  10:13

the good singing Flamenco is the dancer is the orchestra conductor. That is a detail that many people they don't know. In orchestra, like we are having the pleasure to have here in our production of Carmen, there is a conductor that guides the musician well. We dancers, we flamenco dancers, we are the orchestra conductors. So we have some some cues polls in the dance, during our dance, that make the musician change, or start singing, the singers or start, like going faster the percussion. So we have some kind of cues and codes inside the flamenco dance world that we flamenco dancers are the conductor of the music. So we ask to be faster. We ask to have more lyrics inside the dance or not, or change the rhythm. It depends on you. Are not the musicians guiding you? Is you guiding the musicians? And that is beautiful, but you need to have a lot of music knowledge, not only your dance training.

Rodney Veal  11:28

Oh, that is so rich. It's so different from, I mean, I mean, there are, there's sometimes it happens in ballet, where you have live music, and you do have to, kind of, you do collaborate with a conductor, and it's not necessarily through you as the dancer, but I love the fact that it is this. It's a completely different relationship. It is I like that. That is kind of, that'd be really so, I mean, let's talk about like that. I How do you you guys, get that to be a lot of trust and a lot of like, you're not, it's, it's a very like, how do I say it like a very intimate relationship you have with the musicians. It is, it's, and it's, that's what makes you know the few flamenco performances I've seen so satisfying, is that it's just such a community driven dance form. It can't you just can't help it. It just, it's about, it's a it's about people coming together and connecting. Is that satisfying for you? It's got to be. The coolest

Irene Rodriguez  12:33

thing is, is beautiful. You know, I love dancing flamenco. You can dance flamenco, not only with live music. You can dance flamenco with record music, but the flavor is completely different. It's very authentic when you dance with live musicians. And you can do everything that I have been explaining to you, like change the RE dance and have this relationship. Everyone is very pending of what you do, so they need to be 200% commit and focusing what you are doing and what you are demanding during the piece your feelings how fast or slow you are the day that you are dancing. Because every day we don't keep the same spit like you feel different. You perform different. So your speed in the football is completely different every day, and they need to be, you know, over you and over what you are doing. That is the more pure version of flamenco. Okay, that is the pure version when you dance along with musicians, very improvised, very authentic, and at the same time, from your heart, very personal too, because that is another beautiful scent, Renee that flamenco has. In flamenco world, we have many rhythms. Name it, palos del flamenco. Every Paolo has a different rhythm and a different reason to be danced. For these reasons are feelings. Some of them are big families of rhythms. Some of them are joyful. Some of them are very, very, very sad. So depending of the mood you are, or depending what you want to express in the choreography you dance the joyful rhythms or the very sad rhythms. So depending of that is the lyrics the singers are singing, too, and the way you dance it. So that is another thing that is so beautiful. It's not like just entertainment. It's not just movement, even if the movement is by itself, is perfect and beautiful, not you are expressing a particular feeling every every day, every time you dance, a different rhythm in flamenco. So that is absolutely amazing.

Rodney Veal  15:02

Oh, that is so that's, there's something about, I mean,

Irene Rodriguez  15:08

it always makes you return to the real sense of dance that is expressing the feelings through the movement, not only very concerned about the technique or or entertainment. No, you are expressing a particular feeling every time you dance flamenco. That is why people go to flamenco show and they feel immediately connected, because it's impossible. You can hate it, you can love it, but you cannot feel like it, ecstatic.

Rodney Veal  15:42

I don't know. Never. There's no in between, two sides,

Irene Rodriguez  15:47

not in between, because it's like it is about feelings you connect very fast with the audience. It's not only the pleasure of the esthetic as ballet is more than that. Is really putting your heart by there, right? That is why flamenco dancers are so expressive, so ball and sharp, you know, because it's all the time like, like you're seeing from me.

Rodney Veal  16:13

Yes, I do that. I you know, because we love because I think that's, I think that's a trait that dancers just have, we just love movement we're in. We're just, we just, we want to express that love of the movement. It's just joy to me. It's pure joy. I can still, you know, I can't jump anymore. I'm 60 years old, I admit, my age, but I can still move, but my way, but I love it, I mean, and I try to, you know, we and I think that's what's really fascinating, is that when dancers get together, we all we understand each other, we understand that passion for this movement.

Irene Rodriguez  16:50

But I can tell you something Rodney about dance only, for example, I will compare a little bit about reading a book and just a movement, how many words do you need to use to express sadness in a character in you know, in a book? How many words you need the opposite of that, just a movement of your head. You don't need your whole body. Yeah, you don't need your whole body. It doesn't matter how old you are, just, you know, just a movement, just just a pet, just the hands. Immediately, in one second, you know, everything it speaks everything. You don't need one page of words saying that this character felt so sad and crying. No, no, no, only in one second, only in one movement, and you don't need to use your whole body.

Rodney Veal  17:55

No, no, I No, you don't. And that's why, like, it was so funny, because I just, I gave I went back to performing, oh, maybe two months ago, and, you know, it's 60, and I, I had such a blast. I was like, I

Irene Rodriguez  18:12

was like, dance is for everyone in Tampa, Ronnie, I have a huge, a huge school, and I have dancers all age, and they are so happy, so so happy. They make the dance made their life much, much better. You know, doesn't matter, it doesn't matter your age. It makes you it's your time. You are dedicating time for you many people during their you know, youth, they don't dedicate time working, and, you know, with the kids and family, they really don't dedicate time to their own dreams. And some of them have dreamed always about being a dancer, and now is the moment. Now they have the time,

Rodney Veal  18:59

and they're just, and I'm sure they're just loving it. They're just in love.

Irene Rodriguez  19:03

They always express me how happy they are after they start dancing, and how much it has changed their life. And, you know, the character that their mood. So I'm very proud about it. Not only it have changed me too, because in Cuba, I was very, very dedicated to teaching professionals in a professional school and to professional dancers. So people really want 100% commit to be professional dancers. Here in the US, I opened this school that is really open to all age and levels, and I work either with professionals, and I work with little girls, four or five years old, and adults all age too. And it has changed me too, because I made these people so happy. These kids love dancing. I. Parents short picture in their school day, they are dancing everywhere, and they have changed a lot kids that they were having problems communicating, or, you know, with social problems with other kids. Now they are very open and dancing and teaching the other, you know, friends, how to dance. So dance has really helped the kids and have really helped adults to to enjoy more life and to really know that there is time. It's never late. It's never late to dance.

Rodney Veal  20:32

It's never late to dance. I and I love that, and what was that part of the reason why coming, I mean, was your intention in coming to Tampa to start a school was for that opportunity for this sort of well, I mean,

Irene Rodriguez  20:46

my story was Tampa is really special, because I was living in California, and I had a huge support to move to Tampa. For people that I love, I always love mention them is Linda Mark Seul Sena, who are really advocate of arts in with the festival of Jacob's Pillow and at the same time in the city of Tampa. So I met them in Jacob's Pillow that, as you can know, is the most important and longer Dance Festival in the US very lucky and to be a part of this festival many, many times, and recently this year, I was a part of the small cast that reopened the new Doris Duke theater that is one of the best the technologically well occupied theater in the country right now. You know, the last Doris Duke got burned during covid, 2020,

Rodney Veal  21:52

I remember that.

Irene Rodriguez  21:55

And they has been, you know, building the new Doris duck. And I was a part of the small cast that reopened this theater, the first performance of that theater. So I'm really, really honored. And this is my relationship with Diego's fellow and these advocates for arts. They really helped me to move to the to the Tampa city. Why? Well, many reasons, if you can know, Tampa has a huge Cuban and Spanish, you know, community and history related with Cuba and Spain. So at the same time, I felt like I can put my seed of love for this. You know, culture, the Spanish culture in this city. And I don't only have Latin American students. I have students from all around all America, 100% American. I have Indians, of course, Latin Americans. I have from everywhere. And I'm very excited, because Flamenco is international. It is yes, that feeling, of course, it was born in Spain. We always need to respect traditions. But like it expressed feelings. It is inside us. I have Japanese students. I have Indian students, as I told you, and all of them and all of us are united by the passion for flamenco dance. So we don't need to, we don't need to be, you know, any Spaniard to dance flamenco. You know, for example, my Japanese student, she doesn't have any Spanish root. The passion is, is the expression is, what she love, is exactly the culture. And that is really important.

Rodney Veal  23:52

I love it because it's from the heart. It's from the heart, this place. You know that, that we've that they're coming from with it, and so I know that you this is not your first time in Ohio, because did you perform at the bold moves festival in Cincinnati? I saw you perform. I saw you perform. I was like, one, wait a minute. Yes. I stood up. I gave you a standing ovation. So I tried to remember that you were fabulous. You. Oh, it was

Irene Rodriguez  24:29

thank you so much Cincinnati and that festival is it gets a really important part in my heart. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. I was very honored to share the stage, not only with the Cincinnati ballet, if not with pieces with great choreographers, international choreographers, and well known and recognized. So I felt very, very honored to be there in a 25 minute solo. I don't know if.

Rodney Veal  25:00

Remember, I remember, I remember it was, it was a solo. Yes, it

Irene Rodriguez  25:04

runs fast when when you are in the audience, but is when you say to an artist that someone performed 25 minutes along as a performer. And all the costumes, as you can remember, are beautiful, heavy, yes, yes, they are heavy. And yes, I but the audience of Cincinnati was so absolutely amazing with me. You saw it, standing ovation, all the love. And I really remember it gets a very special part in my heart.

Rodney Veal  25:50

And think is what I remembered about was it was a it was like, Oh, I am seeing the best practitioner of flamenco dance in Ohio. Like, I'm like, in the world, I'm like, What is going on here? I'm like, I was just, I remember that I just, I was captivated and thrilled. And now I'm getting to talk to you, oh my gosh, this is so this is what's crazy about the world. Because I know that, um, servileo is from Havana. And so I just, you know, it's just like this, changing the world and with with dance and what you do. And so I am kind of curious, how did you come in contact? I mean, we're is Dayton, Ohio. How did you come in contact with the Dayton opera and this whole entire team of women who are doing this opera, which is I really love, by the way,

Irene Rodriguez  26:43

so and we are an amazing, I mean, I'm not talking about me, but the others, the staff of women, talking about another woman that is Carmen, you know. And in a very, very particular interpretation, you know, like vision from Kathleen Clausen, who is the artistic director. And I'm so happy to be in a part of this. The introduction came through Brandon Raglan, who is the director of the Dayton Valley, yes, yes, yes. We were both faculty of a summer intensive program in Tampa in the straw Center for the Performing Arts in Tampa. Oh, wow. And I'm a resident choreographer and teacher there, and he was invited, so he met me there, and Kathleen was talking to him about she need the choreographer for this work. And he said, I bring Rodriguez, and I really appreciate it. And well, she contacted me, and we start dreaming about this project together. So I have became very close to Kathleen Clausen, and we have worked like this the whole time, sharing visions, sharing ideas, and I have learned a lot from her, and I'm very, very happy to be working next to her and having this amazing opportunity that last night, last night, we finished at midnight. I can tell you, wow, meeting after a long rehearsal, we finishing a production meeting very, very late in the night. And yes, I was, I was talking to her, saying, like you don't know what you are doing. Is so big, so amazing in this city. You are very lucky to have this fabulous alliance that includes the ballet, the opera and the Philharmonic. So doing something like this that engaged the three of them.

Rodney Veal  28:52

Yes, it's, it's happening. It is absolutely amazing. And I, you know, and I think it's and in support of this story about a woman Carmen, which I think a lot of people don't understand. That like, like, They that, you know, you think about the theatrics of an opera, and it's very big themes, big emotional arcs, and you know, jealousy and betrayal and death and you know all these things. But it really is a core. It's a core. It's a story about a very vivacious woman, a very like she's fully who she is. And that's unusual in an opera behind you, and you

Irene Rodriguez  29:35

need to really move that story to 150 years back, yeah, by the way, do you know how many anniversaries about Carmen, the opera of Carmen, are having this year? No 180 of the novel. The original novel, was written by prosper Mary may in. Later, 150 of the first time the premiere of Carmen, the opera, yes. And 150 that be said he passed. Because I don't know if you know that he passed three months after the premiere of the overall Carmen. Yes.

Rodney Veal  30:18

Oh, wow. See Yes, yes. This is

Irene Rodriguez  30:23

a big important Yeah. It's very Yes, because Carmen was a huge fail. I'm so sorry for beset, because he

Rodney Veal  30:35

didn't know that what he created was turned to was going to be a classic. I mean, it is a is it truly a classic. But that's that seems to be the story of a lot of things that have become a part of our culture. They failed the first time, but now are beloved, and he didn't. I'm just so bummed that he didn't get through like, you know, it's gorgeous music, by the way. It's absolutely gorgeous.

Irene Rodriguez  30:57

Completely. It changed, completely. Kathleen could have talked about this better than me, but it changed this opera. Carmen changed completely the vision of the opera, the history of opera. So first thing is talking about the Gypsy. What is that a gypsy? A woman that she she wants, she doesn't want to, you know, like depend of the man and she doesn't sorrow, which is she is her and defend her freedom over everything, including her own life. So that is, that topic is like a what you know, right? Cigar factories, workers on a stage. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Other thing is a meso soprano being the soloist instead of a soprano. It was the first time so many, many scenes changed completely the vision of the opera, the premier of Carmen. So Carmen makes it before and after in the opera world, in many, many points,

Rodney Veal  32:15

that is amazing. And that's the thing it was. It's groundbreaking.

Ad  32:19

I'm Bonnie miles, membership coordinator of CET. Thank you for listening to Rodney veal's Inspired by this podcast is a production of cet and think TV two local PBS stations as PBS stations, the work we do online, on air and in the community is supported by listeners like you. If you're enjoying the show and would like to support our work, please consider becoming a member at CET connect.org or think TV dot O R G. Plus, when you sign up to donate at least $5 a month, you'll get access to special members only streaming videos on the PBS app through passport. Learn more at CET connect.org, or think TV dot O R G, if you're enjoying this conversation, the art show, also hosted by Rodney veal, is available to stream anytime from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app.

Rodney Veal  33:08

What I love is effective, and I love this idea that you came in and we're giving it this and I can't, because I haven't seen it. I'm excited. I could, you know, you know, full I have to full disclosure for the audience. I am on the board of the Dayton Performing Arts Alliance. I could have gone to rehearsal, but I choose, you know, by I've said, No, I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna wait till Saturday. And so this kind of notion of bringing flamenco, giving it an authenticity, and how do you how do you think that change will change for the audience taking in Carmen? Because I feel like it's going to be much more raw, authentic, real.

Irene Rodriguez  33:50

Exactly, remember that Carmen takes place in Sevilla. Yep, Sevilla is in Andalucia. Andalucia is the mother of the flamenco style. So bringing flamenco and a very authentic choreographies to this work changed completely. Changed completely to the production is it's not like something like looks like, no, these dancers that I want to talk about the ballet dancers of Dayton ballet? Yes, only two weeks Rodney, they have done an absolutely stunning work, learning not only the choreographies, learning how to dance flamenco with food core, how to manage props, such as big fans, not the small fans that you know. No, no. Big fans like

Rodney Veal  34:41

that, not the ballet fans, because I know those big

Irene Rodriguez  34:45

fans are really, really difficult to dance with, shawls, capes. They has been working 100% of the time to learn all these new scenes for them completely. From ballet dance in only two weeks. So what you're going on stage is completely authentic. They are moving the shawls. They are dancing the shawls, with the shawls at as it has to be in the flamenco dance, the performers, the singers, the soloist, when they do the hang clappings. It's not like, you know, no, this correctly, everyone the Torero de matadores Camillo, yes, the good fighter. He moved the cape and he moved everything. He took lessons. You know about it with me, the Carmen. She plays the castanet she studied before she everything that you will see on a stage is completely authentic. It is like it has to be in the Spanish dance world. So I really appreciate that Kathleen had the vision of not doing like a classic choreography that, you know, give you an idea that they are inter video, no, no, what you're going to see on a stage is how we flamenco dancer could have danced it, you know. So it brings a lot of, you know, particular authentic flavor to the work in every act

Rodney Veal  36:24

that is, you know, and that's, that's what I love about Kathleen, is that she is committed to just really, and I've known her for the last few years that she's been here. She's just committed authentic, this authenticity, to the operas that have made them thrilling. It's a thrilling opera to begin with. It's already a great like you said, like it's a modern story that's very modern from 180 years ago, modern thinking story, exactly. And so she's just embracing this kind of modernism, this modern take, and just but which is really saying, make it an authentic take, which is, I mean, it's gotta be that had to be so sad two weeks that is blowing my mind. How many rehearsals were you? Were you guys at rehearsal?

Irene Rodriguez  37:19

Every night, 30 am every day, we finish 4:30pm and only with the dancers, and after that until 10pm with the singers. So it has been an intense work, 10s and 10s

Rodney Veal  37:35

and 10s and I think a lot of people don't realize how much work has to go. How much prep work did you bring? Because you're bringing this just, I've seen you perform. I know you're bringing the talent of knowledge and awareness, but how much prep work does it take to choreograph this kind of a performance, versus

Irene Rodriguez  37:55

just, oh no, we have been working on this person. Need to Know the vision of Kathleen, because she's the artistic director. So I need to know what she wanted every moment, and after that, basing what she wanted, I start dreaming and proposing ideas that she loved, honestly, and I really, I really like and appreciate that Kathleen is giving the dance a very important place in this work, because it is an opera. But in many points in the songs, in the lyrics of Carmen, she is saying she's a dancer too. She's dancing. So if she is dancing. She has she needs to have people to dance with. Then, for example, the second act is placed in the tavern of Lia spasia. So that is what happened in the taverns. People dance, people sing, people drink, drink. Yeah, it's party. So everyone that is what happens in Spain. I don't know if you have been in Spain, but in Andalusia, you can go to a bar, you can go to a restaurant, and they are not dancers, but in one second, you turn the face and there is a choke happening there by people. They are not professional. They don't supposed to be playing, but they start singing, and like the best singer in the world, they start dancing like they do many lessons. Is the blood is the culture they sing. They dance since they were little kids. So they don't need to go to school.

Rodney Veal  39:36

It's a part of their life. So yeah,

Irene Rodriguez  39:39

bringing that to the stage. You will love the second ad. I can't wait. I won't anticipate, I won't anticipate anything, but you will love the second ad is so so much movement. Everyone is dancing. I love it. Second I love all ads. But second ad is. Is really special.

Rodney Veal  40:01

Oh, I love it. And that's that just speaks volumes to the to this team, this vision that that Kathleen has, and that you are a part of, and you were the right person to bring that enthusiasm and that passion to it. I mean, you, you're the right person. So I kind of curious, because the thing is dancing, because you dance at Jacob pillow, you did the bold Festival, which I felt and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like you see your it wasn't as if I saw history on the stage and you're dancing, but I also saw the now and the future, Is that intentional? Was that intentional? Is that intentional? Like you're you're trying to are you trying to take from you are taking flamenco to the next level, beyond what it is

Irene Rodriguez  40:51

being always my my goal be based in the tradition, but always given a very current flavor and expression. I'm very minimal in my, you know, in my choreographies, very minimalist, even in Jacob's Kellie Joy theater, all my own productions are based, really, in the feelings in what I want to express and convey to the audience, more than I don't know how to express it, because my costumes are beautiful. I don't say they are not, but it's not about the sparkling and the you know, it's about the content of what I'm doing and saying. So that is what I want to express on a stage, and it makes my expression as the choreographer and my vision completely different. Like I told you, I'm graduating ballet in flamenco, and I have studied a lot of contemporary dance style. I graduate in a university in acting as well. So I love putting together all these disciplines that dance disciplines and the acting, of course, dancing, but at the same time, always conveying an idea, a feeling, to the audience. So if you see my choreographies, they are always touching a very important, you know, concept of idea. For example, the I have one choreography, I will talk to you about my favorite choreographers. You know, choreographies. Choreographers are like kids. Yes, I love all of them, the same, but, but some of them are very special too. One of them is El Mito, the myth that is bay in the myth of the cavern of Platon, this philosophical idea they and Clayton. And the most important thing about this is on a stage you can only see 13 pair of legs dancing flamenco and at the same time you get the philosophic idea of Platon, of the myth of the current. So I really encourage you to see the choreography on YouTube. I have a part of it on YouTube on my channel. Yes, I do, because I know that you cannot imagine how only legs can express this idea, this idea of Plato and philosophical idea that is even with words in mining, only with legs. Okay, so it really it won't in the Vladimir Malakoff award. So it's a Russian award Vladimir Malakoff and other of my favorite choreographies is the crime was in Granada, a dream in fuen. Granada is based in the poem of Machado about the killing of Federico Garcia Lorca, and it's one of my favorite choreographers. It had, it is nine minutes length and long. And it had, it was recognized with the International choreography award from Spain. And for me, it's really, really an honor talking about Federico, Garcia Lorca. And I will tell you two very important characteristics about this choreography. Is flamenco music and rock music.

Rodney Veal  44:37

Ah, together, you brought flamenco and rock together.

Irene Rodriguez  44:42

Yes, because they're like, What? Why not? They both express very visceral and deep feelings. Why not? Absolutely. And the premiere of that choreography was in the Grand Theater. Of Havana, very elegant theater for ballet. People say like, oh my goodness, I really people accept rock in this theater, this audience accept rock. And they love it. They love the communion. They love the mesh. So that is, that is, that is a crime and Granada. And another one that is one of my favorites, too, is encierro that talks about the encierros in Navarra. Encieros is a tradition where there's they send 12 bulls to the streets, running by all the streets, and people go out is in July, July 7 to July 14. It's a week in a festival, and they run in the streets. People run next to the bulls. They arrive to the bullfighting square, and then the final the bullfighting happens after that, with only six bulls, two per matador, and is a tradition that some people love it, some people hate it, so my choreography was exactly criticizing that choreography, that tradition, sorry, and Talking about how difficult it is for the animal that sometimes these bulls that are being, you know, it are going to be in the fight is the first time they see a human being. They really put the boundary. Yes, they make them bleed blood, and you know, it's very difficult. But at the same time, many people there, they grew up with that tradition, and they love it. So it's a way to express, you know, to talk about it. So the end of the choreography is really emotional, very, very intimate and dark. Because, for example, when, when the bullfighter kills the bull, they cut the ears, they cut the tile, and they make the ball do, or turn the animal do the circle of the square before they go. So in my choreography, the 12 wolves are 12 women. That is the first thing. And like I do the principal bull I kill the bull fighter. Because, you know when, when the bullfighters go to the square, it's 50, 50% that you can kill the animal, or the animal can kill you, is, it's a fight. It's a real one. And and these animals are 500 kilograms, the weight. So is is a huge thing in at the end of my choreography, we, all the women, take the bullfighter with us by the square. So it's a beautiful and very emotional choreography that makes you think about the tradition. So is one of my favorite ones. Wow.

Rodney Veal  48:09

This is, I would I just love this. This is, this is such a cool thing, and I want to before, because we're coming up towards the end. I have, what would you say to someone? Because, you know, this is, obviously, this is not going to air before the performance is tomorrow, but, but to talk about flamenco, I mean, and I encourage everyone to go see the opera, and if you get a chance, go see Carmen. But what do you what do you want to say the audience who may not, who may say, oh, flamenco dancing is not for me as an audience, what would you say to them?

Irene Rodriguez  48:43

You won't love what you don't meet. You don't know. You need to come. You need to go to see flamenco. And I promise you that you won't ever forget it. You won't ever forget it. I is not like one, two or 10 people. Many people in my life have came to me and saying, I want to learn flamenco, because I visited Spain, and I attend a tabla Cho, and after that, I really want to dance it. I really want to learn how to do that, at least moving the hand, knowing the clapping, you know the expression. So people change after visiting a flamenco, I can tell you that. I can tell you I'm being very, very honest. People change. Many people after visiting a tabla in Spain, they come and they want to learn how to dance flamenco

Rodney Veal  49:44

that I can, I can say, as an audience member, to flamenco, yes, it does change you. So because I saw you perform it. So, so thank you. So Irene, you are lovely and amazing and talented. And just, there's just too many good words that you're just doing all this amazing stuff. And I am so glad we got a chance to talk. So thank you for coming on my show. I'm very

Irene Rodriguez  50:10

glad to I'm very glad to be in this city. I'm enjoying a lot. I am enjoying a lot the theater. The theater is absolutely amazing. I love making videos and editing too is, oh, okay, it's a parallel passion. And I made a video of the theater and the star fill and the amazing details about the distance between the balcony and the center of the stage, depending of the first fly of the right brother that this theater hides and have that the show starts before the performance starts? Yes, so just visiting, just visiting the theater, just being there, enjoying this beauty makes you get into exactly what you are going to live to experience. So I really encourage people to go to this production. Some people think opera is not for me, and they are completely wrong. Opera touch your heart and your sensibility in a very, very special way. And if you haven't seen Oprah before, I promise you that garment is the best one to be the first one, because you see dance, you see drama, stage, you see passion, so you get into that word, and later it's easy for you. It's easier for you to understand the opera work. They are singing, they are talking. They have dialogs, they have songs, they dance, the scenography. And the production is absolutely amazing. And I cannot, you know, forget to talk about the amazing soloist singers we are having in this production. They are those. Many of them have performed with the Met, and they are absolutely amazing performers. So I'm very honored to be around this wonderful guest.

Rodney Veal  52:12

Yes, yes, and we're and we're so lucky to have you. So I I will get to see you in the audience as Well, because you'll be there. Thank you so much.