Artist Lori Park

Renowned artist Lori Park joins host Rodney Veal to share how a childhood without TV sparked a lifelong passion for creativity. Hear about Lori’s global adventures, her leap from government work to art, and how her distinctive sculptures are shaped by experiences across cultures and continents. An inspiring conversation about art, innovation, and following your own path.

Follow Lori on social media: @loriparkart

Learn more about Lori on her website: https://www.loriparkart.com/

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Lori Park, Ad, Rodney Veal



Lori Park 00:00

I think children really are the best artists, and I think they're just so wide open with their minds and their creativity, nurturing that and allowing that and encouraging it is just so powerful. I've seen it in places I've lived, you know, in Mayor Kellie working with children that have never seen a colored pencil or a marker or a paint. These are very unusual situations for these, these children, they you know, and doing art with them was something that I found really fascinating.



Rodney Veal 00:37

Well, hello everyone. Welcome to Rodney gills, inspired by podcast and today i i love to describe it as an interview with someone who is the life of the party. And it is a grand, adventurous and art making, and is super fun to be around. And I love her artwork. I mean, it is just one of those situations where it's a love fest, and that's what I love about doing this podcast. Lori Parks is a I would describe as a multi disciplinary artist, because she works in all genres and does such amazing things and has had an adventurous life, and she is amongst us here in Dayton, Ohio. And so without further ado, we're going to have a conversation with Lori Parks, Laurie, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Super cool. Great to be here. Oh, it's always, it's always fun. And we, and, you know, full disclosure folks, we, Laurie and I know each other. We've, we've been in the circles and in the mix of the art world and the visual world as well, and just having a good old time we always do. And this is a little different to have a conversation without the disco music from the NATO NATO disco village party that we were back at the end of spring. So see. So this will be different.



Lori Park 01:57

I think you could do a podcast there next time.



Rodney Veal 02:01

Oh, that would have been fun. I mean, we're gonna talk about



Lori Park 02:03

signing is the signing anniversary is actually coming up? It's right, December 17, or something like that. Yeah, it's right around November 17, next week.



Rodney Veal 02:13

It is next week because we're doing some segments on it. But so I love this, because what I love about this podcast, it's like, I do this, I always talk about going in the hot tub, Time Machine and going back, because there's got to be about, it's about the inspiration of, like, what, how you became an artist. And so I am so curious, what was that first spark in your childhood had to be early to be an artist, because you're fully in it. So what was the spark?



Lori Park 02:46

Boy, I think, I think we're encouraged by our parents and my family to to we weren't allowed to watch TV. We're really my parents were very strict about that, and so because, I think, because we didn't sit in front of a television, they always had crayons, and we'd roll, you know, paper out on the table, and we would all get together and draw and and, you know, we'd even make little books together sometimes, and things like that. So I think it started when I was really young. I don't even remember the, I don't remember the first thing I made. I remember a lot of we were always making things, though, you know, out of paper and popsicle sticks and, I mean, it was just, it was just all sorts of things. Maybe, I don't know if kids do that now, but we, we did quite a bit of that, and I really think it did have something to do with our, our not having access to television, because all that time went into making things



Rodney Veal 03:55

I love. It does it just started in that space, no television. I mean, is it very unusual? Because, like, I mean, how many siblings are you're a part of? You know, was it just you? So I have,



Lori Park 04:10

yeah, no, I'm, no, I have two sisters and a brother, and we actually collaborated. And I remember when we moved to Ohio from New Hampshire, and I was going into fifth grade. I remember that summer, we had a ping pong table, and I remember in the garage. And we, first we moved to Beverly Creek, and there, there wasn't a lot of we didn't have a lot going on. We we didn't really know other kids in the area. It was new. And I remember my brother and I made this crayon, melted crayon sculpture like it was and it was on the ping pong table. I remember we melted it onto newspaper or something to start it and just and so we would do things like that. And I, I remember collaborating a lot with with them. My one sister is very talented with music and but I think we're all pretty visual to, you know, I think we, you know, we all sort of, sort of collaborated in that way and brought that out of each other. We also did a lot of reading too growing up. So I think that also probably helped as well. It's all visual and ideas. But yeah, so, you know, so my parents encouraged that. I don't think that they really thought I always had the feeling that they wanted to steer in a very subtle way, you know, steer me into maybe being a lawyer or something like that.



Rodney Veal 05:46

Such a pathway. Oh, no, you would never laugh. I can't I can't see you saying, I object you honor. I mean, I just don't see you seeing that. I mean, well, so, I mean, it was just interesting that they credit created this environment where creativity just had to manifest itself. I love the fact that you melted. I love that.



Lori Park 06:16

And we, we also. I remember, you know, my pet, my one sister, is very creative, and she taught for many, many years, very, very gifted painter. And she, she would, I don't remember how we did it, but the writing little books and little stories and illustrating them with something else that that we did as well. We did that in New Hampshire, more, I think, but also possibly when we, when we arrived in Dayton, too, I can't remember, my brother and I wrote a book. He wrote it and I illustrated it called Patsy Donovan hero. And that was a story about, actually, it was a story about dragons. And, you know, we, we even, he even very cleverly made a binding for it and everything. I mean, it was really quite a, you know, but this was initiated by us. This wasn't our parents, like telling us to do this, or saying, oh, you should write a book. It was us coming up with these ideas. So, yeah, it was a I think, I think children, I think children really are the best artists, and I think they're just so wide open that with their minds and their creativity, it's just, it's and so nurturing that, and allowing that and encouraging it is just so powerful for children. So I've seen it in places I've lived, you know, in Marrakesh, you know, children going up to the Atlas Mountains, working with children that have never seen a colored pencil or a marker or paint, you know, and they've made, you know, drawings and little paintings of mermaids. I mean, they have no idea. They don't have access to television or technology. They don't even have shoes. They don't have



Rodney Veal 08:01

shoes. They don't have shoes. They do shoes. I mean,



Lori Park 08:05

it's like, yeah, yeah, these are Berbers, and they're up in the mountains, and they're, they're, you know, three, four hours from the sea. They've never seen, seen the sea. They don't know what it's, what it is, and no exposure to popular culture, or, really, almost the modern world. I mean, very, very, these are very unusual situations for these children they, you know, and doing art with them was something that I found really fascinating, because you're going into a group of children who aren't influenced by, sort of the normal things that children are influenced by. So you can see their imaginations inventing



Rodney Veal 08:47

and inventing, which is really super cool. Yeah, I love that. I responded to that. And it's like, you know, this, this notion of this child like inquiry, I mean, which we always like, but really, it's, really a pure inquiry, really, is the phrase we probably should use for, you know, it's as opposed to that. And so I love the fact that your parents were like, I can't believe that your parents even entertained the thought of you being a lawyer.



Lori Park 09:13

I think it was sort of like, there was a, there was, I think they they saw the creativity they under. They knew it's kind of saying things like, where did that come from? You know, because neither of them were artists, and we weren't really in we weren't, we weren't growing up in an artistic family. In that way, my father taught Comparative Literature, English and Spanish. My mother was a physical therapist, and they they were more connected in a lot of ways to probably the literary world and the medical world, and they loved art, and they would take us to museums and to see art. But there wasn't, I think. Think, in a way, they were working so hard and so much that it wasn't, there wasn't a lot of time for that, like in junior high and high school especially, felt really, really busy time. But I would say, you know, there was this practical there was acknowledgement of the creativity was there, but then there was this practical side of, well, how do you survive in the world? And so, of course, they were, they were thinking more practically for us, like, you become a doctor, a lawyer, Indian chief, whatever,



Rodney Veal 10:34

anything other than they don't know. I mean, if you don't have an awareness, there's a possibility of it, yeah, there was



Lori Park 10:42

no idea. They had no idea of how you how you actually, how the art world works, or what happens, or how people are make their way. You know, growing up with my father, you know, teaching at university, my sister went, ended up teaching and being a professor there, teaching painting and art. So that made sense for me. I just went out without really much guidance. Or, you know, I kind of took this flying leap of faith with my art and left a wonderful job, you know, career with the EPA Environmental Protection Agency in Washington, after I'd been a land use planner and all these things in Seattle, all this stuff, usually my art, you know. And it was just like there were people who were stunned, you know, like, How can you leave a job like that?



Rodney Veal 11:45

There's nothing worse than a job with benefits, and all of a sudden you're like, I want to explore the world creatively. Like, how do you pay for insurance?



Lori Park 11:55

It was a leap of faith. It was really and I just thought, well, I'll just, you know, I'll give it a few years and see, you know, see, see how it goes, what, see what happens. So, and then everything changed. I mean, everything I made that decision, everything changed.



Rodney Veal 12:13

I love it. So, okay, okay, so I'm processing because I love, I love, I love having this conversation with you, because it's this is deep diving into your life. And I'm like,



Lori Park 12:23

ooh, Laurie, yeah, just sort of dumping it all on you too. No, don't



Rodney Veal 12:27

dump away. I mean, because I'm just curious, because if you already established working, I mean, do you make the sleep of faith? And I loved how you describe it as a sleep of faith. I mean, it just had to be the thing. Like, I need to create. It can't be anywhere behind a desk. Create.



Lori Park 12:45

And it was such a huge drive for me that I sort of wondered, sometimes it was like this, you know, I kind of felt like, I wonder if this is what it is when women, because I didn't really feel this maternal drive to have children so much it was, it was the drive was to create something else, to create art. And so I, when I was working at the EPA in Washington, DC, I was getting up at five, six in the morning to make sculptures before I would go to work. And then at the end of the day, I would rush home to make more. And that became, that became my schedule. It was, and it was sort of crazy in a way, because and then weekend I would be working on, also on sculptures and art. And so I had this apartment, which I had housemate with me. She had a bedroom, and I had there, and we shared it. And I remember, before she moved in the the apartment, I there was nothing in the apartment. It was only my art stuff and a couch, my bed. I remember having a Christmas party and inviting all these people to come, and there was no place, nothing to sit on, so they all sat on the floor. They all sat on the carpet, and it was like 100 people came and just jammed into this place. That was that where people were like, I mean, it was just this crazy party, because everybody was standing and sitting on the floor, and there were all these people sitting on the couch because that was the only place to sit. So there were like 10 people crammed onto the couch, and then everywhere there were wire sculptures on the walls and sculptures standing and the whole place was full of art. And I remember these people, you came these colleagues of mine from the EPA and other parts of the government that came from across the government. People came and nonprofits and everything, and they all said, you know, what are you doing working at the government when you're like, clearly you're an artist. And I was, of course, arguing with them, saying, no, no, I'm working for the EPA. I was like, I can't be an artist graduate school. At Harvard, you know, all these years of, you know, going to school and getting educated, and all of this was for that, not for art, because I didn't go to, I didn't, I didn't get MFA or BFA. I, you say, No, I, I didn't. I didn't go through the normal track that most artists, right? You know, a sensible artist would grow up in an art family and go do it like a BFA and an MFA. And, you know, I don't know whatever apprentice with a gallery, or I don't know what they do even, but, you know, so for me, I really felt like an outsider to it, and I probably fought it for a long time too, because I was so attracted and drawn to the world of Economics and Policy and the environment has been this huge anchor for me. You know, I spent I realized the other day when I was I was up on some scaffolding installing something, and I realized that I really loved being up high. And then I realized, well, you know, that's because I spent most of my childhood in the top of trees. You know, I climbed trees, and I'd be way up in the top with these tiny little branches hanging on, and the wind would start, and I keep moving around, and my mom would be the bottom of the tree, sort of worrying and wringing your hands and and, you know, begging me to come down. You know, I realized that's why I like, I like being up high. And so installing, like in London, I installed the big wire sculpture it was, so this installation was seven stories high. I love being up high. I really love that feeling. And I realized this connection. There was this it also hit me all those years that I spent as a child, as young as I could, climbing into trees up to the very top, and here I am climbing up to the top of scaffolding to hang these sculptures that I do, and these installations are ladders 30 feet up in Marrakech to suspend stuff in in galleries and palaces and places like that, you know, where it's just crazy, you know, but it makes sense when you when you see the connection, that's more of an intuitive thing than anything.



Rodney Veal 17:19

I love the fact that the like, you know, finding out discovery. Because I did look at your CV, I told you, I dig a little. And I was like, and I noticed that, and I was like, Oh, I'm glad you brought it up, because it was like, Oh, she didn't follow the traditional pathway into art making and at all. And I'm like, so, I mean, like, so you have all these people who are, like, cramping your home. They're seen as art, telling you you should be an artist, and you're saying, no, no, no, no, I meant to work for them.



Lori Park 17:47

Well, I think that was the start. Was I think that was just that was the start of realizing really, kind of, I wouldn't say it's emerging, but emerging awareness about about it. I mean, I always sort of knew and felt like, you know, growing up in Oakwood, you know, this art teacher, Mr. Carmichael, at Oakwood High School, he was so wonderful. He was he really nurtured a lot of the art for me. He allowed, he sort of took me out of the class and gave me a space, and said, Okay, do whatever you want now. He, he was really creative. He, I guess he really was an example of an artist for me, because, like, he'd do things, like he'd wear a different hat from a different country. Like, every week he'd put on a different hat, and he would speak all day long with that accent, and he would be in character, and he'd be teaching, but he'd be wearing a hat from Scotland, and he'd be speaking with a Spanish accent the whole day. He was just creative and also really aware and nurturing for people like me, who was I felt kind of outside in a way. I was really immersed in the art, and I wanted to be doing that. And he he brought in one day, he brought in casting equipment, a centrifuge and a kiln, and he said, Okay, now it's time for you to to learn to cast some metal. So this is the kind of thing he did. He taught me how to use a centrifuge, how to cast metal, and then casting bronze. And, you know, I was riding my bike around the garage sales, buying, you know, so sterling silver spoons that were chewed up by the garbage disposals. I would buy all this stuff, bring it back to Oakwood and melt it down in his class, and cast little sculptures in sterling silver, you know, and and then they grew to be, eventually, one ton bronzes, you know, years later in England, when I started, you know, in Spain, doing these really big things. But the thing. Started. The seeds were planted when I was growing up, and then the awareness really started to emerge. I think when I was, when I was in Washington, DC, and it was, I think it was hard to, yeah, when I started hearing from so many people around me in Washington, I think because it's a city, it does have fabulous art, but the dominance of the hill and the politics is really overreaching in the person, the feeling of the city and the life of the city, and so, you know, luckily, there's a national gallery to and the Smithsonian to counterbalance some of that, right, right? I was hearing from a lot of people at that time, a lot of my colleagues and my friends and



Rodney Veal 20:49

just like, Get thee to an art gallery space. And so, yeah. So when you're hearing that, like, did you just kind of go, okay, like you're processing, you're doing it, what was like was your first showing of work in DC, yeah.



Lori Park 21:05

So what happened was, I mean, it was really fascinating. I was, I was at, I was, can't remember I was, I was working for the EPA, and I remember I started making some big sculptures in this apartment where I lived. And so I made this one that was a sort of Goddess figure, very much like the textual pieces I was going to make by the time I got to Marrakech. And I remember then it came time to move it out, and I couldn't get out of the door. It was too big. So it was too big to take. I got so carried away by it, was big, and so I had to cut it the base of it. I had to cut it off so that we could fit it through the door. And so that meant cutting it off at an angle, which meant that then I could hang it on the wall that way, and it would be coming out of the wall like, almost like a figurehead on a ship or something would come up. And so, you know, I think I started getting working really larger scale. And I was still at the EPA, I decided I had this apartment full of work. And I decided, you know, I think I need to have a show of all this work. So I think, if I remember, right, the very first show I had was border books in Washington, DC. And I remember, I mean, I had, I invited all these people I knew from EPA, Department of Agriculture, you know, across Washington policy, mostly policy. It was mostly this whole thing that I was in, and they all came. And it was like 350 people showed up in this Borders Bookstore and and most of them brought bottles of champagne. I remember people see works and champagne everywhere, and everyone having this. It was an incredible party. I mean, it was work too. And I sold the sculptures. I sold wire sculptures. I was making all these wire things, all sorts of things. And then after that, I had a couple of local shows in an old house in Cleveland Park, where there was a that part of Washington, there was a house that had been donated to the community as a community center by people. And this house, I had a couple of shows there, and and, and that was very successful. Those were dogs. Why are dogs and cats? Of people in the neighborhood, their dogs and and people walking dogs and and then after that, okay, then I decided that I would, I would leave my job. So I did leave my job. I ended up in Majorca, Spain, and just to make the connection between Washington and mayorka and this light of what was happening was then, when I got to Majorca, Addison Ripley Gallery in Washington, DC, offered me a show of my wire sculptures. So I traveled back from mayorka with all these wire sculptures I'd made there, and they were all packed into suitcases because I can, I can flatten them and roll them up and stick them in a suitcase. So I showed up with a few boxes and two or three big suitcases in the gallery. And they said, well, where's all the art? And they thought that was like my my clothes in the suitcases. Well, I said, I don't have any clothes. The only thing I have here is art. So I took everything out and unrolled it and shaped it and put it and that was my show. I mean, that's how I work with wire. The show at Addison Ripley was wonderful. It was the same thing. I invited all these people, and there were about, I don't know, 300 400 people. I There were so many people. They were the gallery was packed, and the whole sidewalk outside of the gallery was full of people standing waiting to come in. So. That's, that's, that's what happened in Washington. And they were people from all across the government who came it was fascinating. It was all wires, sculptures. And I really knew that I was on our you know, that was when I said, Okay, you know, I'm,



Rodney Veal 25:17

you're an artist now you've done I'm just that you kind of and the thing is, what was the why? Was Why was there a move to mayorka, Spain? Was it just to get away? Like, well, like, it was just like, I wanted, did you wanted to live there? It's like, I want to live there. Well, I looked



Lori Park 25:35

around Washington. I was trying to find a studio space in Washington, DC, and it had to be very affordable, because I was leaving this job, the secure job, and, and I remember the neighbors had a, it was a garage that was like a it had been converted to a studio at one point, and I was just dying to use this as my studio. And I went to them, asked them, could I rent it? And they said, No, we don't really want to. So I kept, you know, I asked them several times, so that fell through, and I looked for garages, I looked for different spaces. Felt like I couldn't find anything. And I started telling friends I was looking around. So one person said, Well, we have a fig ranch out in California and our family, and you could go there, and you could live and work on the fig ranch. And I was, I was seriously considering that. And then someone else said, Well, you know, I have this place in Majorca. Do you want to go there? Because, you know, they couldn't be there. And I said, Yeah, okay, I'll, I'll go to mayorka. So I sublet my room in this shared house that I had where I was living at that that point, and I had quit my job, I'd handed him my resignation. And when that happened, actually, when I got when I handed him my resignation, it coincided with getting an artist in residence, residence fellowship at the Blue Mountain colony Art Residency Program in upstate New York. And that was sort of the transition for me, leaving EPA, getting this going up there, spending a month with a huge studio in an incredible place. It was a, I don't know, 40,000 acre estate, you know, in the Adirondack sort of upstate New York. Yeah, amazing place. And, and I worked in a lot of wire. I excavated the dump that had been on the site of the family living in this place, the hawk shield family. I had owned it, and did own it. Still blowing it. But anyways, back to Majorca. I decided to go to Majorca, and then started traveling back and forth between Majorca, Spain and coming back and forth. I sublet my room. I then started showing around Majorca, and I loved it, because I really love to be close to nature. I really love that seems to be a return to my work. Yeah, I mean, a lot my whole life has been being in nature and climbing mountains, dog sledding, working out fishing boat in Alaska. All these kinds of jobs I had were because I could get paid to do this kind of work, but I felt like, if I was going to get paid, you know, whatever it was, it would be great to be an environment where I just felt ecstatic every day about waking up and watching the sunrise over Alaska, you know, in the panhandle, surrounded by islands and whales and surfacing and balding, you know, this amazing, and mayorka was beautiful. You know, this Finca on top of a mountain, you know, it was just, you know, the olive trees were all 1000 years old, you know, the animals and, I mean, it was an amazing, magical place, I mean, and I feel really lucky that as an artist, you know, I have looked for these kinds of, you know, I've been lucky that things have come my way, and that I've embraced these kinds of possibilities. And so, you know, that's, that's been a big part of it for me, you know, and I decided to go to mayorka and do that without knowing how long I would be there, if it be, you know, a couple months, or a couple years, or



Rodney Veal 29:36

you just, kind of just, you are, you are putting limitations on it, because it's, you know, saying, like, there's no reason, limitation, okay, you were you, you'd already shown work, sold work, people are embracing it. So when you take that out of the equation, and you talk about all these, like, sort of, all the places, and that's, that's what makes it fun, that's because you, like, I said, I described you as the part. Party where there's a party, I



Lori Park 30:05

spent a lot of time also alone, working. And you know, sometimes when I'm working really hard, I may not talk or see anybody for three or four days, you know, literally. And so, you know, people see like this part of you, I really, I love meeting, you know, I love going to a dinner party where there might be, like in Marrakech or in Majorca, especially americash, where you might have five or six different languages being spoken around the table, people flipping between, you know, French, English, Arabic, Italian, you know, all these different people from all over and I love, I love different cultures. I love, you know, even here, when I worked in apple orchards in college in the Columbia River Gorge, you know, I was fascinated by the then apple orchards. You know, half the workers, well, one, 1/3 of the workers were from Mexico or El Salvador or Nicaragua or, you know, they were all there was a whole Hispanic community there. So within America, there are these different groups. And so I like connecting with I just think it's so fascinating going into other cultures, and that's a whole nother part of my art. It really inspires the nature inspires my art, but travel and different cultures and really, really, yeah, and each culture is like a puzzle to figure out. Each place where I've done my art and lived has been like a it's like a puzzle for me to understand, to figure out, and I I spend I suppose my art is also a way to sort of figure it out and



Rodney Veal 31:52

kind of explain the place and state that you're in that presence, in that moment.



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I'm Bonnie miles, membership coordinator of cet Thank you for listening to Rodney veal's Inspired by this podcast is a production of cet and think TV two local PBS stations as PBS stations, the work we do online, on air and in the community is supported by listeners like you. If you're enjoying the show and would like to support our work, please consider becoming a member at CET connect.org or think tv.org Plus, when you sign up to donate at least $5 a month, you'll get access to special members only streaming videos on the PBS app through passport. Learn more at CET connect.org or think tv.org If you're enjoying this conversation, the art show, also hosted by Rodney veal, is available to stream anytime from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app,



Rodney Veal 32:46

because you are like, is it you are working in multiple forums,



Lori Park 32:53

broad repertoire of materials. I work in many materials, and I work in, yeah, I develop techniques for I develop techniques I invent my probably because I didn't go through an art school that taught me the ways to do things. I just figure something out myself and invent it, or I develop it myself. And so, like all the textual work, the textual panels, the big radiance sculptures, the big collages that are very, very



Rodney Veal 33:30

and assemblages,



Lori Park 33:32

yeah, the assemblages that contain so many cultural objects, and then they're also embedded in the textual panels too. All of that came about because in in Marrakesh, I didn't have very much money when I got there. But the one thing that I saw I'd leave my studio, I'd walk through the souks and walk into the Medina, though this is an old walled city, it was right in the heart of the old part city of Marrakech and and my studio was right in the middle of all that. And I would walk through at night and look at everything thrown out. So outside of, you know, on the in the durbs and in the street the the leather workers and their shoemakers would put up mountains of leather scraps, or, you know, I paper. There was tons and tons of paper, cardboard cartons, the textual panels, all those materials I started using for my art, and that's where a lot of it came from. It was it was free, it was cheap. I was there every night. I could find more. So I would go out at night and find all these things at night and come back, bring it all back to the studio, sort through it, and then it would go right into, you know, the paper. I had all these methods that I use then to develop, to separate the the paper and. Break it down, basically. So then I could create the textures and have it do what I wanted it to do. So there's, I spent years, you know, figuring all that out,



Rodney Veal 35:09

which is, I love the I love the fact that you talk about, like, spinning years to figure it out. Because in many ways it's like, you know, talk about not going the BFA route, the MFA route to art making. And you're like you're figuring it out of processes, but I don't I. I'm putting the positing this to you. I don't think your work would be as rich and inviting to such ideas and feelings if you had gone the traditional route, do you? Do? You do? I'm saying, like, there's, I don't think, I don't think it would have been the same work. And I think it's like,



Lori Park 35:50

I wonder if I would have, yeah, I wonder if I would have ended up doing something totally different. Or, you know, I guess, you know, going, I got my undergraduate degree at the Evergreen State College out in Washington State, and then I went to Harvard for a Master's of Public Administration degree, which is, you know, really about governance, and, you know, Economics and Policy, environmental policy, all of that. And by the time I came through the other side and and went down that road, then I think, in a way, I think that actually fueled my need to make more collages and more sculptures and more. It just I remember that year. I mean, wow. I remember before I graduated from Harvard, I I remember that last year, I only had time to make five collages that year, and I remember how difficult that was. I gave them all away as like, birthday presents and gifts. But, I mean, I just remember it was really, really hard not to be making, not to have the time to make it, to be creative, to be making things. And so, yeah, I think it probably, I think you're probably right. It probably would have looked really it probably would have been different for me. I just don't even know, I don't know if, I don't know what it would have been like to be in an MFA program or BFA program. I have no idea. I I just, I can't imagine, really. I mean, I spent a huge amount of time in at museums like art museums, like in Washington, DC. It was so cold in the wintertime, and my apartment was freezing where I was. So I remember I used to go to the National Gallery on Saturdays and Sundays. And I spend a lot of times in museums. There were nice heated. I could get a coffee. I could spend my whole day there and be warm. And so I I would go back and look at, I mean, I loved in the National Gallery the huge Calder, you know, mobile, enormous thing. It was massive, gigantic. And walking in and seeing that, it was always like, I loved seeing, you know, there were certain artists I just love to go and see their work, because I felt like they were talking to me. I mean, I sort of felt like their work and my work, yeah, like I was really fascinated by Joseph Cornell's work, because I was doing assemblages and box of sandwiches. This is when I was living in Washington, doing policy, and I was making a lot of wire sculptures. At that point, I had sold my first wire sculpture. The people who bought it had Calder's work. They bought this cat that I made in wire, and it was $150 they kept saying, Are you sure? Are you sure? That's all it is. And then they invited me to dinner in their house and Alexander Calder's work.



Rodney Veal 39:00

So talk about underpricing your work. Lori at that point, yeah, well, that's talking about underpricing your work there. I mean, it's just, but isn't it typical of an artist, like, when you're starting out, you don't, you don't think about monetary value, but then you have to, and it's like, oh my god, you know you because you, because they responded to the work that meant that the work,



Lori Park 39:25

yeah, and I must say, I have to say something about people who buy art too. It's like for me, something important I feel, is people who have bought my art like that, that couple who bought the first wire sculpture that I ever sold. They they taught me, like so many people teach me so many people. Maybe I didn't go through art school, but there's like the school of learning from other people, which is so important and so collectors I find. You know, there are a lot of collectors in new. Way more about than I do, because they have studied it, you know, because they study it as collectors, and they do research, and they talk to a lot of people. Maybe they're thinking about it as, yeah, I don't know. They it's a passion. It's a passion for many people who buy art. But I'm just saying that. You know that that couple, they were experts on Calder. They knew him.



Rodney Veal 40:23

They it was a passion. It was a passion for them.



Lori Park 40:26

They knew him. They actually and then, um, in



Rodney Veal 40:30

Washington, they knew that, like they actually knew him, as in,



Lori Park 40:33

yeah, and and then I met, at just coincidence, I suppose, about five different people who were connected to Calder. They either, like Alex, grew up half the time in in France, and the Calders had a place in France. He had a studio in France, and they would go over and have, like, Christmas dinner with the Calders and so. And Alex was somebody I knew, and I met and got to know. I mean, that was all accidental. I mean, these were just and so I probably do have probably four or five collectors who have Alexander Calder's work, and they buy my work, you know, which I'm, like, the bargain basement compared to Alexander Calder and it I, you know, but so flattering to be part of that sort of family. Have some kind of connection, because Alexander Calder is a definite hero of mine, you know, but



Rodney Veal 41:28

just, but the thing is, the wire sculptures are part of it. Because, I, yeah, because, you know, I, I just sneak into Dana Wiley's gallery space with your artwork. Sneak in there.



Lori Park 41:45

You should have come when I



Rodney Veal 41:46

was there, I know, I know. But he was like, but, you know, but you know, it's one of the things where it's like, why I looked around and it was distracting, because we were having a meeting, and I was like, I know what you were doing there. Yeah, it was so distracting, because it was like, I'm like, Laurie's doing these tall told him sculptures over in the corners, a mass of them, like, oh. And then I'm looking over the wire sculptures, and I'm looking at the light hitting the mobiles and leaving the shadowy imprint on the wall that was moving a movie. What are we talking about? Again? Because you just attracted me with your work. I was like, Laurie, how dare you? And so I just thought it was, yeah, I just remember you telling me, like you told me, like a couple, like, a week ago, you told me about how Dana said she's never installed artwork like this before.



Lori Park 42:43

And this is what I've and and I and it's, it's not just there, but, you know, I had something over right now. I have a suspension and installation over at Indiana University, and it's interesting, the jury, I, the jury selected it, and then basically, the jury and the installer, the curator all this, they all decided, you know, we don't know how to put this up, so we better contact her. This is what happens. I have to go install it because they really don't know how to install the wire sculptures. It has to be me doing it, with the exception of London, when I did the Price Waterhouse Coopers, it was seven stories high. I wasn't allowed to go up seven stories because it really dangerous to be in the it was too dangerous to be in the top of the room, the top of the core of the gallery. The top core was the seventh floor right. And the gantry men, they were allowed to be up there in the basket that was moving back and forth. So I had to be on the floor, seven floors down, telling them, yeah. And so I can't remember if I had a walkie talkie or what it was, but we were, I was directing them where the things had to go, to drop down the lines. And then the way we did it is we tied off the sculptures at the bottom and raise them up that way, because that was a way to position them. But it was a very complex show. It had a couple of pieces that were floating rooms that I made out of wire, and those were rooms that were suspended in space above the ground, but people could go inside of them, and then around the base was, I think I had candles under the perimeter of the rooms to up light. It was a wild show. That was another show where, boy that was, that was also about 300 people who showed up and Price Waterhouse Coopers actually said, oh, we'll just cover the cost of champagne. Don't worry about anything. And, and I think they had something like, I don't know, five crate loads of or maybe car loads of truckloads of



Rodney Veal 44:51

champagne. Speaking from my own personal experience with the Europeans and the Brits, they do love, oh, a good champagne. Party folks, if you've never hung out with folks from England and London, but it's a fun part. Like, yeah,



Lori Park 45:09

you don't have to speak the language to look at the art. You know they they don't have to know my language to know my art. They don't have to speak English and know English to to understand what it is. I'm saying. It's like a feel about art. It's, yeah, it's a universal language. And I mean, and I've had people break down and cry seeing my art. I've said people laugh seeing my well, because, well, some of the well, the show, like the wire sculptures, tend to be quite joyful, joyful. But then there's, I have speaking very, very Yeah. I don't know how to explain. It difficult to look at actually some of them, yeah. I mean, most of my work is very joyous, but, but there's emotion, right?



Rodney Veal 46:01

But when there's a moment for you to kind of speak to things within your work, it's because, I think it's because of the background that you've had, and that's what and I've been, I it was just, it was interesting to be in Dana's face, kind of capture these ideas, the multiple, the multiplicity of ideas of Lori Parks, and you need to go, like, go see this. It's up.



Lori Park 46:27

Yeah, I think the exhibitions, the various exhibitions I'm having, and the and pieces and group shows too, like, even, you know, the earth stacks I had at the fit and center, and also the Springfield museum for art, beautiful spaces, absolutely exquisite and beautiful lighting, too. And all these places, I think, I think your point about art school is so I did all these things in life because I wanted to go into other cultures, and I wanted to see the world. Basically, I knew it was a big place. And I, very young, started going to these way, you know, at the age of 16, I was getting on planes flying to Vermont for wilderness Leadership School and things like that, you know, and dog setting and things like that. It's like I feel like, by the time I decided to give myself to my art full time, I had so much I had done already in a way and



Rodney Veal 47:32

places that just kind of that, that it kind of



Lori Park 47:35

that my the source of my ideas. My ideas weren't from studying another artist in a class or something. It was, I don't know how to explain it, but I I mean, I'm speculating, because I've never been to art school, so I don't know what I'd be missing, but I just think that's what my art was, different cultures and traveling and, yes, and a lot of it was, I mean, a lot of the, you know, and there was a necessity too. I mean, working in the apple orchards with migrant workers. I was making money for college, you know, I'm going to Alaska, working on a fishing boat in Alaska, salmon fishing on the outside, you know, on the outside, which is a dangerous part of Alaska. I mean, that that's that was all because I had to make money for school, you know, for university, if I wanted to go somewhere else, I had to pay myself. So that's what I did. I went.



Rodney Veal 48:38

You did it. And you kind of, yeah, yeah.



Lori Park 48:42

So yeah. And then living and being in these different places and all these different experiences, I mean, so many places and people and yeah. So that became the source, in a way, yeah, yeah, the material,



Rodney Veal 49:02

I love it. I because I think it's such a variety of materials, and piggybacking on this conversation about not going to school, because this is one of the questions we've been this the season, been asking people, because it has to be a certain I mean, and just hear me out on this question is, like the sense of, do because you didn't go through the traditional Do you feel the sense that the, I mean, your work has been accepted? I mean, I accept it now. I mean, but at the time when you started, did you feel a little bit of like I shouldn't be an artist because I'm not, it feels a bit of imposter. Ish, when the rest of the world, you never felt that sense of imposter.



Lori Park 49:48

Like no, no. People have a tendency



Rodney Veal 49:52

to kind of go, Oh, you have an MFA.



Lori Park 49:56

I never well now, see, I had a match. Degree I did. I did have the sense. I had a master's degree from Harvard. See, I had gone to an undergraduate school didn't give grades. It was interdisciplinary. Evergreen is highly experimental. And then I wanted to go to a more traditional place for grad school. I knew that, and I wanted to study policy. I went into economics and Environmental Sciences. I had environmental policy was really a strong interest of mine. So I applied to MIT and Cornell. I applied to these places, and they all. I got into all these places. And so I guess I had in the back of my mind, well, I can do that if I can get accepted by all these places and they offer me money and I go to Harvard because they offer me the most, then I'll go there because I have to. I have to go where I can afford it, where I can pay for it, whatever. But I had that sense, so it was like, okay, I can do this if I want to university or advanced degrees. That's something I can do. But then with the art, I don't know, it was just an act of faith, and there's just, it just feels like, when I'm making the art, it's such a flow of ideas and of and sometimes it comes so fast that it's like a fountain. I feel like a fountain or something, some kind of fire hose, and I have to ideas so that I don't lose them and I can come back to them later. I don't always draw things. I sometimes describe them with words, and I'll make little sketches, but I, I often, you know, the wire sculptures, I never draw any of that. They are drawings. They are drawings.



Rodney Veal 51:49

Yeah, they really are that and how they hang,



Lori Park 51:53

yeah, yeah. So beautiful. How they hang, the shadows, the movement. People don't realize that movement and the shadows, the lighting that that's just as important in like, say, a painter talking about, like the color of the paint, or a paint, you know, it's like people don't think of movement and space and shadows, lighting that that's that's such an important element for for what I do, and it's often not talked about that way, that that's actually a media, that's actually a substance. It's a substance. It's part of it would be like talking about oil pastels or something, you know, I mean, but people don't think of like space and how things are. It's not, I think, generally, I think people aren't really aware of that, but that's a big part of what I do with the wires, cultures,



Rodney Veal 52:47

volume and the movement. But it's also this movement involvement, involvement in in the kind of sculptural pieces that I've seen I like because I I came across this image from Sotheby's, and I wanted to talk about Yo, this, like, this form. And I was like, yeah, why? This is why we get all these conversations about dance and movement. I was like, Oh, now I understand why. I'm like, now



Lori Park 53:20

at the catalog, then you saw them, didn't I not tell you



Rodney Veal 53:26

I was going to deep dive into the stuff.



Lori Park 53:30

Well, that is, I can say that I have been really lucky, you know. So that means saw a sculpture that I'd made. It was on display. It was a one ton piece of bronze. And Spitalfields Sculpture Park in Spitalfields, the East London they have, there's an urban sculpture park there. And somebody, I mean, it's kind of, I don't know if I should talk about that, but somebody from Sotheby's saw it, saw it there, and almost drove into it, actually, and on a motorcycle. Anyways, who are you? Because there was this plaque, you know, there was a plaque on the ground so that people knew my name. And you know, it's like he got my name, and so then the next thing I know, you know, some time passed, but they basically wanted me to show at Chatsworth house, the Duke of devonshire's place in the north of England, which is, you know, and I, he happens to be on the board of Sotheby's. I'm maybe he still is, I'm not sure, but the Duke of Devonshire. Oh, he's so kind, he and Sotheby's so great for me. Now, you know, when you talk about learning, I have to say that Sotheby's has been a really important part of my learning, because I know, you know, if I have coffee with them, or they take me to lunch, or whatever we do, there are. Was saying things that I'm like a sponge, you know, just soaking up everything they tell me and you know, and I go in and look at the shows they're setting up there, what they're selling, you know, and it their catalogs are so beautifully done and so well researched, you know. And I learned a lot from all those people and so. So having having a piece in beyond limits was really an honor for me, because they only take 20 sculptures from all over the world for that and and I was, I felt like I was just I was treated. So it was so kind all of them and treated with so much respect. And that was really important. I felt the other artists were people I really admired, you know, people who were in the show at the same time. It was just, it was just an amazing lineup of artists. So, you know, I felt like I was part of a little club. Was great, and in one of the most important stately homes in all of Europe, house is just a stunning place, and nothing else like it anywhere in the world, yeah, I was very, very lucky to make that connection. And the piece itself was inspired by dance, and that came from the time that I was spending in Marrakech, watching women dance and people dance there as part of the culture, both Berber and and also Moroccan Arab. So you know that that really made an impact on me. And I think I've always been probably pretty sensitive to this, the sense of movement, you know, recognizing people by the way they walk. Or I think I've always been very sensitive to movement, and so I love things like dance. I love the way animals move, the way, you know, horses moved in. And that gets translated in my work, capturing this movement just like the dance, and then you suspend things in faith. Oh, that's even there's even more. I remember I made a wire sculpture of Josephine Baker, and she did this thing where she was, at one point, the most famous dancer in the entire world. She lived in Paris. She also had a place in Marrakech. She was a mistress of the glowie. And she would dance and perform in Paris, you know, and New York, and she would wear this banana belt, and she would dance naked. And so I made a wire sculpture of Josephine dance, Baker dancing, and she she was suspended, and she was dancing with her banana belt. And that was really, really fun. And that piece, I showed that in Marrakesh, in different places. Now I probably should bring it here to America and show it.



Rodney Veal 57:52

You need to bring it here. You really, really do. And it's a really fun piece. I love it. And so it's, it's one of those situations like Laurie, it's like, like I said, like how he introduced you, you're, you're this adventurer who's sharing your adventures through art. That's pretty kind of cool. I like,



Lori Park 58:15

I feel like there's a story behind every piece that I make and, you know. And I sort of think of the textural panels and, you know, all of these works that came out of Marrakech, the reasons and where they take me to, like the pieces, take me actually, take me physically to different places, you know, the opportunities, you know, and and the places that I'd never dream of being, you know, so, you know. And it's certainly an honor. Some of the people who collected my work, such an honor to, you know, to be in certain collections. It's just yeah, you know, leaving EPA, I never would have dreamed that



Rodney Veal 59:02

I What an adventure is. You don't know how it's going to end, because it's



Lori Park 59:10

still getting better and better all the time, you know? And I think that I never, I never would have thought I'd be making a piece for the king of Morocco or the King Charles would have something of mine. You know, he has a collage. Actually, a lot of collages are the collages have quite a bit of movement in them too. But they're, they're very um, many of them are quite surreal feeling. They have a surreal quality. There's quite a bit of movement in them too, though, and color. They're Yeah, and so, and they're in different places. Some at the Royal pre Hospital in London, big ones, they got some, yeah. I mean, these pieces, I It's exciting to have them in different places and where people,



Rodney Veal 59:58

yeah, I so. So Laurie, I just hope you know that everybody gets a chance. When you Stacy Lori Parks, you see Lori Parks his name associated with any artwork. You run, you don't even walk. Run because you really, because it is. It's inspiring. Work, it's beautiful. Work, it's stunning. Work, it's conversational. There's a lot to discover and unpack, because it is a reflection of you as being this adventurous spirit amongst us. I am just grateful that we met each other and the fact that we hung out, we we had that hanging at Club NATO



Lori Park 1:00:39

that was so much fun, more than anybody else around here. Well, just all these events we go to the same event was really fun.



Rodney Veal 1:00:53

That wasn't it wasn't that fun. Wasn't it fun to watch those guys, like, literally let their hair down.



Lori Park 1:00:59

Oh, you mean the after parties, yeah, after party that was we need to do that again. We know what happened.



Rodney Veal 1:01:07

It's coming. But I just, I love, I love, I love. Every time I leave my space with you, I leave just floating on air full of



Lori Park 1:01:19

joy, yeah, well, it's mutual. I feel the same way, and always get a few good, good ideas after we spend time together. So, yeah, it's just like, it's just like this great thing that kind of permeates, you know, the energy or something.



Rodney Veal 1:01:38

But it's fun. It's so much fun. So I hope that everyone else feels the way I do, that you are just a joy and delight, and I'm so glad I got you on the podcast. Yes, yes. So thank



Lori Park 1:01:52

you for being a guest. Thank you for inviting me. I've had a wonderful time. I hope I didn't talk too much get to so, you know, well, which



Rodney Veal 1:02:04

will we'll say for the artist talk, that I'm your moderator for,



Lori Park 1:02:08

oh, I can't wait. I'm so excited about that. I really I love it.



Rodney Veal 1:02:14

We're gonna have good time. We're gonna have a good time. We always have a good time. There's always, it's got to be