Babatunde HipHopera Akinboboye | Musician

What happens when world-class opera collides with West Coast hip hop? In this episode of Rodney Veal’s Inspired By, host Rodney Veal sits down with Babatunde Akinboboye, the viral “HipHopera” baritone who’s redefining what opera can be.

Learn more about Babatunde online: https://www.hiphopera.com

Follow Babatunde on Instagram: @babatunde_hiphopera

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Rodney Veal, Ad, Babatunde Akinboboye, Promo

Rodney Veal  00:09

Well, hello everyone. Welcome to Rodney Veal's Inspired By I'm the host Rodney veal, and today I get to have a conversation with someone I'm just becoming familiar with, but I kind of knew about and once I started to dive in and to do the discovery, which is typical of of me and the arts. And this is a someone, and I'm really have become a late in life fan of opera, so I'm really super excited to have this conversation. So Babatunde Akinboboye? 

Babatunde Akinboboye  00:44

that's it, yes. 

Rodney Veal  00:47

Oh, you don't understand. Sometimes I get like, totally massacre for people's names. Baba today is, is a phenomenal, phenomenal opera singer, but someone who's who is beyond just an opera singer. He's like transversing worlds and and bringing hip hop into into this sort of intersection with classical music and such a novel, not just a novel way, but an interesting way, to allow us to rethink our relationship to both genres of music and realize that, you know, it's not a bad thing to cross streams. So welcome to the show.

Babatunde Akinboboye  01:28

Thank you. Thank you. I'm honored

Rodney Veal  01:31

the honors all ours. One of the things is, you know, this show is about the inspiration and getting inspired. And I was reading about your your your life story. And I just want to, I always do the Hot Tub Time Machine back to the beginning, because there's, it really is the moment when you when you feel something and and I have to say, like I said, a late life lover of opera starting to dive in and started to investigate it always been a fan of hip hop, but I'm older than hip hop at my age, I the gray hair says it all is that, what's, what's, what, what sparked this love of that, that that particular art for because that is a very specific way of singing. It is,

Babatunde Akinboboye  02:18

it's, it's it's kind of an interesting story. I was, I think my introduction to, well, hip hop was in the mid 90s. I was growing up in Nigeria, and my uncle brought me my first CD. It was a DR, Dre, is the chronic?

Rodney Veal  02:37

Oh, you started with the good stuff.

Babatunde Akinboboye  02:38

Yeah, that's where I got that's where I jumped in the game. And I was, I was hooked on hip hop. I didn't even really care about RMB. You know, when the radio stations were playing both, as soon as it went to an r&b thing, I switched over. It was just hip hop. And so when I was in high school, I came back to the States, when I was about 16, and in high school, one of my friends talked me into joining this class with him. There was an easy A, and all my other guy friends when it was in it, and I asked him, What is men's ensemble? And he's like, don't worry about it. It's an easy A, and all the other guys are in it. So I showed up, and it was a choir class, and I had no I had no relationship with classical music at all. At that point in my life, I didn't know that classical singing was taking place in the US at all. I thought it was just in churches in Europe, maybe still going on today, right,

Rodney Veal  03:30

right, if you have no introduction. And so I love the easy a part, yeah, yeah. That was, I totally understand, yeah.

Babatunde Akinboboye  03:39

That was all it took. And so I showed up there, and we had our first exercise, singing harmony. Everyone sing at the same time. And it blew my mind. And I was hooked on classical music, and I wanted to, and then I just became very, very interested in it, and I kept singing in choir. And one day, one of a was taking a voice lesson because I wanted to be a professional choir singer. I was taking a voice lesson, and this voice teacher said, Have you ever thought of singing opera? And I was like, do I look like? I've ever thought of singing opera? Like, why would you? Why would you ask me that? Like, what? He says, Well, no, I think you, I think you have the voice for it. He's like, okay, sing law. And I said, law. He says, Okay, let's try some different technical things like lower your larynx, raise your fairings, support from here. Okay, try it again. No. I was like, okay, there might be something to this. Let's, let's see what this goes and I just kept following the path. Oh, my God.

Rodney Veal  04:33

I mean, it's so crazy. I love Well, I the reason why I asked that question, because I a dear friend of ours, and to the podcast and to the art show. Kathleen Clawson, who is the director of opera for Dayton, for Dayton, Dayton opera, which is part of the day before me, Arts Alliance, got me hooked on opera because of it was because I thought about that, because of the genre. The opera was based on Charlie Bird. I. Oh yeah. It was like, Oh,

Babatunde Akinboboye  05:05

that's a new one. Was that written? What was it called? Oh, I want

Rodney Veal  05:11

to say bird. I really want to say, I

Babatunde Akinboboye  05:12

feel like it. That was the name of it. I remember. Was that written by, oh, come on.

Rodney Veal  05:18

Oh yes. There you go, there you go, there you go, yes. So I knew that, I see, I always know about these, like, I said, it's like, he was a friend of the show, and, you know, she got me hooked. I come to a dress rehearsal, and I just, and I just started it. I'm like, I always resisted it. And I was like, Oh, you got me, you pulled me in. I was like, Kathleen, I mean, so that. I mean, I teach, I mean, it was really funny. Like, don't you find it surprising when somebody sees something in you that you don't see?

Babatunde Akinboboye  05:49

That's always very uncomfortable.

Rodney Veal  05:53

Well, yeah, it's a little bit uncomfortable

Babatunde Akinboboye  05:55

because then I think, what else can you see that I can't see that?

Rodney Veal  05:59

That is the true nature of this beast of the the arts. I tell you that people see it, and so once you got hooked, I mean, then you're like, Okay, I'm off to the races. There's something to it. I mean, what was the next step in the training for you? I mean, I just feel like opportunity. That's like, I said, it's not, it's not one of these. I mean, some people could go sing pop music, and they could do just right.

Babatunde Akinboboye  06:26

You're not gonna watch a few YouTube videos and become an opera singer. That's You're right. The So, okay, so I had this conversation. I started singing the thing, and it was really okay. I was I was having fun with it. It felt like a new toy, especially as someone who's been singing in choir for a few years at that point. And so he convinced me to compete in a local opera competition. And I was like, okay, so he gave me, I said, I had to, I got I went to the bulletin board, grabbed a flyer, and it said I had to learn an area. And asked him what that's called, and what an area is. And he said that word is pronounced Aria, and it's a song from an opera. We're gonna find one for you. And he got me one. I did the competition, and I won, and I was really excited. And after a couple more voice lessons, he said, You know, I think you should pursue a career in opera. And I said, now you're tripping. That's, that's, that's a, that's a different thing. Like, I'm, I'm already in my 20s when I had my first voice, my first opera voice lesson, and so, and I know that I known enough about opera to know there's a world of opera. And so I said, like, I think that's a little much for me. And we, he went back and forth, and he then he finally, opera singers are so dramatic. He closed the piano lid at the voice lesson. They are so dramatic, aren't they? Says. He says, Listen, I do not tell all my students to pursue a career in opera, but every student that I have told that has followed my advice has been successful. And so I was like, All right, let's let's see where this let's see where this goes. So he suggested that I apply at the local, the California State University of Northridge. That's where it was. Was the college nearby, they had a great opera department. So I auditioned. I remember I tentatively, I didn't audition for the vocal performance program, which is the opera program I auditioned for, like music bread studies, just to get, you know, get my feet wet. But they heard my audition and moved me into the vocal performance department. And that evening, after my audition, they called me and said, we'd like you. We'd like to offer you a role in the fall opera. And I said, Okay. They said, It's The Marriage of Figaro. We want you to play the role of Bartolo. And I said, Great, sure. And I hung up, and I called the voice teacher who got me into this mess. And I said, hey, they want me to do an opera. They want me to play a Bartolo. What do I do? He says, Well, first you have to go buy the opera score. And I went and bought a book about this thick. Every page was sheet music. And he says, Yeah, okay, that three hour opera in Italian, you have to have it fully memorized for the first rehearsal. And I was like, oh, okay, so I just, you know, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? And I went through it slowly over the next couple of months, and I showed up the first rehearsal, had it memorized, and did the opera. And I tell everyone that the first opera I saw was from the stage while I was performing it, and I had a blast. And figured, like, Okay, I think I might, might keep doing this.

Rodney Veal  09:27

This, this has some this is doing something for me. It's, I'm kind of curious, like, curious about what that that that sensation. I mean, you got thrown in the deep end. I mean, like, the marriage of figure, come on. I mean, oh, tell

Babatunde Akinboboye  09:41

me about it. Tell me about

Rodney Veal  09:43

I mean, what was that like?

Babatunde Akinboboye  09:44

What did I it was? Well, fortunately for me, I was so excited about this new world, it felt like, I don't know. It felt like going to like magic school or something like, suddenly I was in the deep everyone around me was like to my. Was a professional opera singer, and everyone spoke multiple languages, and every opera song I knew, they all knew it already. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. So I was so enthralled about the whole process in the world. And I had a gift. I was I was particularly skilled pretty often. So the faculty at the school really, really liked me, and so I got leading roles in all the operas as soon as I got in there, even though there were graduate students who had probably earned their earned the right to some of those roles. So between my excitement about this world and their excitement about me, it didn't really occur to me how far in the deep end I was, you know, I was just swimming my butt. I didn't realize how far the bottom,

Rodney Veal  10:45

that the bottom was, wow,

Babatunde Akinboboye  10:47

and it was, I was just having a blast, and I as it got, as I went on. Obviously, it was difficult, like I did have a lot of catching up to do, but it was, it was enough. There was enough fun, and I had enough, like, tricks and skills to help supplement what I was lacking, to to eventually, to make it through. And the faculty, I'm not gonna lie, the faculty kind of, kind of helped me. There were a few classes where it's just like, degrees, here you go, here's a

Rodney Veal  11:17

here's a struggle bus. I mean, just, I mean, and that's, that's to be expected. I mean, because the thing is, out of curiosity, you're in this world, you're swimming, did most people just start that training and that sort of swimming? What age did they typically start? I mean, I'm because I know from the ballet world. I'm coming from, from the classical ballet room. I started late, which is a whole other story. I really started late. It was like 18, and it was like, Oh, so this is different, so I understand that, but because I was in a room with people who started dancing, they were four, and I'm like, right, sorry. It sucks. I just came in,

Babatunde Akinboboye  11:57

yeah, oh, tell me about it. Tell me about it. It's really similar in the opera world, there's some people who have, you know, who started when they were who started when there were five or six, or some people who started maybe when they were, like 12, but their family threw everything they had into it. They made in their life, they've traveled to work with all the different voice teachers and so on and so forth. So in the opera, yeah, in the opera world, especially in the collegiate level at that point, by the time I got there, there were some I didn't realize how. I don't know. I didn't realize how much some people had put into it. I realized that it was a large culture, but I didn't realize some people had made this their life, like their parents had decided before that they were going to be an opera singer, and so fortunately for me, once again, I think I was such a novelty at my school, just because I was such a different personality, because I didn't know how you know, the opera world is much more than just singing and acting. It's there's a bearing, there's a there's a way to carry yourself. I tell my I tell people all the time that most, well, a lot of opera singers never step off the stage. They are in character all the time, which is why, when you see some opera singers, they speak like this, and they're just all the time, regardless where they are, and that's where they are, and honestly, after a certain point, it really is who they are. You just got to love them as that. But I think I was such a such a different type of person that was just so I was exciting enough to where the only people who were really upset were some of the other baritone grad students who probably who should have been having some of the roles that I was I was having, but I

Rodney Veal  13:47

that's not true, not your choice. I mean, it's like someone's, I think it's like, it wasn't like you took something from them, it was that people offered the opportunity to you, and that's you know, you can't apologize for, like, well, sorry. I mean, it's not, it's like, I you, what are you gonna say? I'm sorry. I'm gonna say no, because that person really had their dream.

Babatunde Akinboboye  14:07

Unfortunately for me, by the time I realized how the game worked, I had already had a few rolls under my belt, and I didn't know any better, and I was just used to it. And they all came around eventually, like, I was well liked in the department.

Rodney Veal  14:22

Well, I think, I think it comes through and, you know, and the things that I've kind of discovered is it comes through that it's, it's no it's an abused word. Authenticity is an abused word. But there's an energy that you, you're like, Okay, this is who I am. This is life. This is it's all, all. It's everything. It's everything. So therefore, I think people respond to it a little differently when it differently when it's when you recognize it, when they can you as the person recognize it. And then they go, Oh, they're aware. They're aware that they're swimming in the deep end and swimming quite well, which I have to say, because it's not an easy genre I can't even imagine. I mean, Costco ballet was. Completely okay, let's learn everything in French. Let's learn, let's you said, there's a certain bearing that dancers have the college, anywhere the culture, the culture is real, very real, and you just kind of sense it, and you feel it. And so now, like, I mean, what happens like, once you're at the collegiate level and you've, you've had these experiences. I mean, because I, like I said, My My experience was starting late, and then it just dove right into professional development, training and just being in a company and just going, what happens? We're not because opera is different. I mean, you know, teach. How do you like? What's the first step after the training part? How do you get into that lane of like? You're like now you're traveling. Now you're doing well.

Babatunde Akinboboye  15:58

It honestly there. There are a lot of different paths that happen. There's some, I mean, there's some that are well worn, but well, how it worked out for me is, by the time I had graduated, there was already some buzz about me in the Los Angeles area where I went to college. And so there were local companies that were eager to hire me when I finished. And so I did those companies while auditioning for other places. And then I was getting emails, you know, asking me that, hey, next year, we're doing Rigoletto in San Jose, or we're doing, I don't know, American soldier in St Louis. And so I'm driving, so I'm flying to these different places and and each gig is leading to other gigs. And it was getting, getting better and better. And I just kept, just kept on singing.

Rodney Veal  16:43

I love it, I mean, and so these travels, which I love about. I don't think a lot of people know that LA has a really robust classical, classical music and classical opera scene. I think people have a tendency to believe that. You know, West Coast is my folks, folks, no, no, it's like the Midwest, like, like, folks, it's everywhere. It's every everywhere.

Babatunde Akinboboye  17:10

It is everywhere. Yeah, we have Matt, we have large Opera House, a massive the Los Angeles opera is one of the larger opera houses in the country. And the LA Philharmonic, I think, is the they're the orchestra with the largest budget, if not in the world. I think they're, they're a massive orchestra, and they have the Hollywood bold right there, too. So there's some real classical music and opera going on in in Los Angeles, in Southern California, northern

Rodney Veal  17:38

California, too. So you got you so you got the foundation for it. So, yeah, you're now, you're now, you're cooking now you're in this world, you're, you're, you're, you're performing St Louis, which is one of my favorite cities. I just know, I always, I always talk about the Midwest as being, you know, especially here in Dayton, Cincinnati, because we are close to Cincinnati, the station is both. It's think TV and CT, PBS, land of public broadcasting. We support classical art and all art, which is, I'm lucky in that regard to do that. So my curiosity is, when, because you did, you just abandon, I mean, and you don't abandon hip hop. Hip hip hop was once. It's in your blood. It just kind of stays. So you were like, that's your gym. You're listening to it. You're in the wet world. There's two different worlds, but they both kind of act the same way.

Babatunde Akinboboye  18:27

Actually, there's a through line. There is a through line. So for me, they, they, it kind of grew together. Here's the story. So let's go back a little bit. Okay, I auditioned for the department. They let me in. I get a call that night. They asked me to do the Marriage of Figaro, play the role of Bartolo. I'm learning this three hour opera, and I get stuck at this one part. I'm trying to learn this part, and Bartolo has this section. He's an older character, so they give him patter to sing, which is when he has to sing a bunch of words very quickly. The idea in opera is that he's supposed to be like a mumbling, grumbling old man, like, leave me alone. I can do it on my own. I'll catch you, you know, kind of thing. But an opera sounds like say to the cogitate, obviously. And it goes on and it goes on and on like that. So I'm trying to learn this part. I'm kind of struggling to, like, memorize it and get it in my bones. And I've always loved hip hop. It was still, like my first love of music. So when I'm listening to music casually, it was still hip hop. And so I'm working on this song, and I there's Hip Hop playing in the background, so I'm just kind of like, start singing it to the beat of it. So I'm like say to the coach, no me, no cookie. And I kind of do it for a while. And I realized at a certain point that I've had it memorized. I've been singing it from memory for a little while. And I just, I didn't realize that. And at that point, I kind of decided that i. Was I started using hip hop to supplement what I was lacking in my musical training. And so whether it was a rhythmical thing, a note thing, where I'm trying to hear a certain interval between these two chords, and I realized, like, oh, that's the same intro for that feral Munch song. That's the same interval. Okay, got that. And so, like, I was so hip hop. It always stayed present in my opera training when I'm trying to, like, get certain rhythms, like, learn certain I would kind of set it to a beat, and then, like, I learned how to, like, you know, make up, like, take I use the hip hop as, like, a, like, a skeletal frame. And once it was standing upright, I could take it out and like, let it, let it stand on its own. But I had always kept a close relationship with hip hop while going through my opera training. Ever After every rehearsal, I'm back in the car listening to hip hop and so. So while I as a professional, and because I came to opera so late in life, it I didn't quite deify opera this the way a lot of my partners or colleagues had, it was like I hadn't. I could still see it as just music. It's notes and rhythms, just like every other form of music and so, and you could, you could play with that. And so I always did on my own in the car, like I would get out of rehearsal and sing some opera thing to the beat of a hip hop song, and and I've always, I've always liked the marriage of the two, but I wouldn't ever really share with my colleagues, because opera people can be very traditional.

Rodney Veal  21:45

Oh, that was diplomatic.

Babatunde Akinboboye  21:48

I was good. That was good. I've been in this world a while.

Rodney Veal  21:53

Yes, I understand

Babatunde Akinboboye  21:55

so, so I wouldn't really share it. It was a thing I kind of kept to, kept to myself. And then one day I was out of rehearsal, and I was singing, he got a largo al factotum in my car, and the Kendrick Lamar and the song humble by Kendrick Lamar was playing, and I kind of kept singing the Figaro song over the beat to that, and it lined up really well where I was, like, I want to record this. I put my phone up on my dashboard while I was driving and recorded me singing it to the beat of the song, and I went and posted it on Facebook. I posted on my personal Facebook, not my professional Facebook, because I didn't want my colleagues to see it. So I posted on my personal one, because I thought, you know, just my friends would see it, and no one else I posted it. Went to sleep, woke up the next morning. Everyone had seen it. It went very, very viral. I got a call from Ellen, from Time magazine, wanted to interview me. America's Got Talent, and my social media had blown up. They were like, This is the greatest thing I've seen. We want you to do more. Do another one. And I'm thinking, like, I've been doing this in my car for years, sure I'll do another one. I did another one. Like, this is great. I'd buy an album of this. And I was like, really? And so I immediately started to crowdfund little three track EP, and I got help with someone who helped me make Hip Hop opera three track EP, and I put it out. People loved it. I got a few calls to come perform live, and I was like, Okay, I got to figure out how to perform this on stage, like it's like, it's regular music instead of something I've just been doing messing around in my car. And I did that performance, and led to another one, and then another large venue, and I got call from the city winery, and then another one, and I went on a tour, and fans showed up, and I was selling out shows and and I became the hip hop or guy, and I still do traditional operas, but I've started having so much fun with this that. And I think it's, it's, yeah, this has kind of become where, where I've where I've focused my energy now I'm the hip hopper guy.

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Promo  24:44

you're enjoying this conversation. The art show, also hosted by Rodney veal, is available to stream anytime from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app.

Rodney Veal  24:53

I love the fact that it's like, you know, you just did something that you enjoy doing in a car. I mean that just, you know. And then it's like, okay. Next morning, it's like, okay. People the world just said, What is this? And so what do you think it is? Out of curiosity? What do you think is I driving this curiosity? Because I think, like I said, opera is a I mean, I felt like I said, I fallen in love with it. I feel it is, you get the right singer in the right role. There's some juiciness I attracted to the notion of the high drama of opera, but it's also beautiful. It's stunningly beautiful. And I can sense things within the structure and the rhythm, I think, and I'm dancing along with it. So in my head, I'm moving so it's kind of naturally fits. And so I'm just kind of curious, like, what, what have people's what's the response been about people about the blend? Because I think, like you said, there's camps, it's these purest camps. There's even purest camps in the hip hop world, right?

Babatunde Akinboboye  25:55

It's been very, very surprising in the sense how positive it's been. I get a lot of fortunately, because of social media, I get direct feedback from the people seeing it, and they don't care what you think. And so fortunately, so I can trust it to some extent. And I get the three comments. I get a lot that I really like is I don't like hip hop, but I like this stuff, or I don't like opera, but I like this stuff. And the occasional I don't like opera or hip hop, but I like this stuff. Every time my live concert, I frequently get someone who's a fan of mine who drags someone along with them to see the show, and at the end of the show, the person they dragged is a bigger fan than the person who brought them, and then they show up for the next show with like, three of their own friends now, and it keeps happening. I think, I think it's a it's two things in the simplest form. I think it's just the simple, like, the simple idea of a beat that moves the body and thinking that, like, thrills the soul. I think it's just like that kind of singing in its simplest form. If I want to get a little deeper, and I get into this argument with some of my colleagues sometimes, because they talk about being traditional and so on and so forth. And I say, what the reason why I feel like what I'm doing is traditional is because opera has had a long history of evolving in relationship with the popular music of the time, which is why, when opera started in the Baroque period, it sounded completely different. By the time Mozart came around, and by the time I don't know, Gershwin came around, it sounded completely different, because for hundreds of years, it's evolved in relationship with what was popular, what was going on, like, outside of the church, you know, they brought it into the onto the music from the streets. They brought it into the opera, and it thrilled people. It's part of the reason people still sing those melodies from Carmen today, because they're, you know, they're folk melodies. There's just like, what people liked, what people were whistling out about in the streets. And so I think I'm just continuing that tradition of incorporating the popular music of the time into opera, and something about the magic of what has made opera such a behemoth of an art form. Still, I think just staying true to that is, is what is moving people, just like it's moved people before, and it's really, really exciting to see people at these shows listening to these opera you know, it's a lot of what I do is very are very traditional compositions, and the singing style, I only know one way to sing like a traditional opera singer, and so that's what they're hearing. And so, yeah, I think, I think it's a wonderful thing that they're getting. They're finding a way to enjoy these art forms in a way that feels familiar and comfortable for them.

Rodney Veal  28:50

And I think that's the reason why I love this whole notion of the crossing of streams, because I think a lot of times, and not just an opera, I mean, I see it in the other art forms in the world. And I'm going to jump on my soap box for a second about it's like these things, these are living, these are living, breathing art forms, right? They're supposed to evolve. They're supposed to connect and engage with the times that we live in. And I go, folks, yeah, I would love for it to be set an amber. But it can't be. It cannot be to be interesting. It just cannot be in this day and age and so, how and so you were in a world filled with a lot of noise. I mean, like you said, you're in your instance, social media worked wonders because it brought, it brought a new concept, a new idea about the merging of streams. But then, but then also too, it also brings a flood of stuff at people. I mean, as somebody who's working in the mediated space, it just now becomes, you know, it's now more than ever that people are responding to authenticity and wanting to hear you. Fake your voice. There's no AI, right? They know. I want to tell people stop trying to do a H, no, no, no. That voice is rich. That baritone is there. It hits you right here in the solar plexus, and I'm going, Oh yeah, look at him. Go and you do it with such confidence and like this joy. I mean, you're like that sound feels. I know what it feels. I know what it felt like to dance like it felt good in the body. Does it still? Is that the same thing it feels the body.

Babatunde Akinboboye  30:29

It feels wonderful. I feel like I'm getting away with something, and I'm worried I'm gonna get caught one day. I cannot be having this much fun. It feels illegal to be getting paid having this much fun because I love singing opera. I also love hip hop, so getting to do both of them. And so the authenticity you're seeing is is real. Because, like, I didn't seek out to become like, super famous. You know, I knew I wanted to become a big opera singer. But, you know, the biggest opera singer I could think of of all time was like Pavarotti as far as fame goes, and he was only like, kind of famous. So I wasn't thinking of like, he wasn't like, popular famous, you know, like, I mean, he what, never mind. You know what

Rodney Veal  31:08

I'm saying. I know. I totally get it. No, no, no, it's different. It's a different level of fame. It's so I

Babatunde Akinboboye  31:14

wanted to be successful, but I wasn't looking to be famous. So when the social media thing happened, and I'm suddenly have millions of followers, I got a little terrified because, well, to be honest, I think just operating in the opera world, I become very much a people pleaser and become very much especially being a black person in the opera world trying to fit into the most comfortable version of what they expect me to be in order to where I can feel comfortable and they can feel safe and comfortable as well. And so now I have millions of followers, and I'm like, Who am I supposed to be to all of these people? And I did. There was no way I could stay consistent to all of them, except for just being who I actually am. So I just let go. And I was just like, Hey guys, this is me, and I just stay the same all the way. And I found it's very, very liberating. And it's very liberating. It's very easy to stay consistent and and people still not. It's not just people still like it. I think initially that was the first part. Like, okay, people are still hanging around, but I found that authenticity is it's necessary in order to attract your people. Like, in order to attract because I know that what I do in my music is not for everyone. There are the people who want to encase opera in amber and and I get it, they love the and they love it. They grew up loving it. And they're, they're worried that some that something bad will happen to it if it's not protected. And I get it's a protective thing, but it's like, you know, it's like an overprotective mothers, like, let him go out and play, let him meet new friends, let him he will grow up and be different from you. But he's supposed to, that's how you know. And so I get it, so I'm I know that it's not for everyone that so in order to attract the people I am for, I've learned I just have to lean into who I am. And I say this all the time that I found that authenticity is very polarizing, like the more you lean into it, you're going to repel those are aren't for you, and you're going just as equally, you're going to attract the people who are for you. And I heard someone say this once, that if you're if you're loved by if you're liked by everyone, then you'll be loved by no one. Like you have to really like, allow yourself to disappoint people, let people down, because they need to go where they're supposed to be. And those who are your Ford need to see you so they can know that, hey, you're my people.

Rodney Veal  33:54

That's, that's a that's, I love, that I love that train of thought, because it's, and that's, and I think that that's really true of everyone that I've had on this podcast. I think we've done, we're, I think we're up to 56 episodes now. And it's like, you know, because this was an offshoot of doing the art show, which is an entire so it's a weekly series in our culture, I did not pursue this. This This was one of those situations where someone said, Hey, you should audition for this. And I did, and I'm doing this. I'm like, 12 years later, I'm like, okay, didn't I was content to stay in the lane of teaching and choreographing and making my art be fine. I'm like, This is good. This is that comfort, the difference between success and fame, like, like, would you describe the successes on different terms? And so one of the things I'm really curious about, and it's one of the questions that we ask a lot of our guests on the show, and I think that's we have an interesting perspective on your take because you, like you said you're crossing streams, is this notion that are you being an imposter? Do you ever have that sense of imposter them in one or both worlds because you've merged two worlds, because you don't say like people think it's like, Does that ever cross your mind? I mean that phrase?

Babatunde Akinboboye  35:17

It doesn't. It really doesn't. I feel very because I came up through the opera world traditionally. You know, they're not a lot of professional opera singers that don't know who I don't know. Haven't heard my name before, because I've just been in that world for a while, and my name is Baba tune day. It's not common in the opera world, but,

Rodney Veal  35:39

you know, we do it. You know, all

Babatunde Akinboboye  35:41

that to say I've earned my stripes. You know, I put in the I put in the work. I've been, I've been in the trenches with the other opera singers. So when, especially when talking to someone who's not a professional in this field, I found very often that I forgotten more than they'll ever learn about opera. I've, you know, I've years of study like the history and the practice and the conversation, the culture, and just so much of it is like, so it's going to be hard to make me feel like I'm an imposter in the opera world. I mean, every once in a while I'll do a traditional opera gig where I get the sense that because I've become so famous on social media, typically in the opera world, when you're famous is because you're this amazing singer. I'm nice. I'm a pretty good singer, but I'm not like for as famous as I am, it doesn't like equate to the way it has looked for like quality of singing. So that being said, I show up at some gigs, and sometimes I sing, and they're like, Oh, he's just, he's just really good. I'm like, Well, yeah, I mean, I, I'm famous for other things, but, and so that's the closest I come to feeling like an imposter. But it's, it's not like I know who I am and what I what I bring to the table, and I love it I am, and I know it's still valued and desired So, and I know it's good work. And so with the hip hop thing, I mean, the because I've been such a heavy Hip Hop head and hip hop fan, like I'm not gonna, I'll go up against anyone in hip hop trivia. It's been so much, and because the I got it, I got into hip hop, you know, right around the end of NWA, when hip hop was like, Really, there was a shift into the West Coast, yeah, and I've been in the game since then. And my mom and dad were big hip hop fans as well, so I got a little bit of the history beforehand, and I got to grow up with hip hop, and it was the only music I listened to before I came into classical music. So like, I like, I say, I missed the whole Jodeci train. There's a lot

Rodney Veal  37:52

of you missed all of our those R

Babatunde Akinboboye  37:55

and B, yeah, I missed it. I missed it all. I only cared about hip hop. And so at this point, you know, it's funny. After I went viral, I was talking with another crossover artist, and he was asking, we had a great meeting, a lunch meeting, and then he was leaving, and he says, Wait, one question, do you know how to rap? And I was like, Oh, I've never rapped before. I don't know how to rap. He's like, Yeah, you do. And then he left. And then a few weeks later, there was this video online where this guy had this rap challenge where he does one verse and he leaves it open, and you make up another verse. And I was like, Oh, I'll give this a shot. And I was like, and I sat there, and in like, five minutes, I've written this amazing verse. And I was like, Ah, damn it, I can rap okay. And I guess, like, when you've memorized hip hop albums for years, and, like, it just kind

Rodney Veal  38:43

of seeps into you. You just can't understand it.

Babatunde Akinboboye  38:45

Yeah, right. And so, and then I started, like, freestyling and writing raps and posting them, and they were going viral, and I was like, Oh, I guess I can rap too. Okay, cool. And so it's really, what, one thing I'm really loving right now in this space is, I say often, the way we practice opera right now, there's not a lot of space for us as artists to create. There's a lot of heavy emphasis on recreation, on doing it the correct way. And if someone hadn't done and the closer you are to what someone had done before, the more correct it is in a lot of spaces, and so I'm having a space where I'm have, I feel like a like, you know, like a bird or some animal bred in captivity, like out in the wild, and I've, I'm like an eagle that's been in a cage, and I have these wings. I have to figure out how to use them now, because I very much am an artist, and I've only been able, I've only been allowed, to do so much creation in the opera world without getting in some kind of trouble. And so now in this space, I get to, I get to flap my wings, and

Rodney Veal  39:50

so kind of push out and expand and kind of, and

Babatunde Akinboboye  39:54

I'm, I'm very I well, I don't care how this sounds, but I'm. I'm loving discovering the kind of animal I am. I'm very much loving the kind of art I'm making and and the kind and what I'm capable of. It's I get surprised as long along with everyone else. So, yeah, I'm having a blast. Oh, I just

Rodney Veal  40:15

that's, that's refreshing, because I just feel like every person I've talked to is it that's they're they're in it for the process of discovery. And it's like, and I just go, yes, yes. And I don't think people understand. It's like, I don't know about how you felt, but performing is just second nature. It's like, you becomes, you know, you know, you know the work that needs to go into being on stage and performing so but I put the process of discovering, like, like, oh, okay, I do this and that, then talking to the other person, and we're like, look at making eye contact and going, this is going to work. Like, what if that place, for me, was the more exciting, to the point where, like, okay, the curtains going up in a day, right? Right? Whatever. I mean, it's just yeah, because yeah you when you've done it all. And so that's what I love about the fact that, you know, it's going through the looking at the videos, and I was like reading all the things in social media. It just seems to me that the audience, and I'm kind of curious. Are you? What kind of audiences are you playing to, mainly adults? Are you? Are you taking this to young people? I I'm out of curiosity, because I'm like, Well, no, no,

Babatunde Akinboboye  41:31

no, it's a good question, because, as when I first started making this, I think as soon as you do a thing where classical music is like, accessible, people assume it's for children. And I was like, No, you know, yes, no, please, please. Because, like, I'm not, generally speaking, I was gonna say I'm not kid friendly, but I operate in a not safe for work way of being. And so I once again with being authentic. I didn't want to be out and about in public. You know, someone sees me smoking a blunt, and they have their kids, and they're like, oh, Babatunde is like, Yeah. I, like, lady, listen, I Yeah. Like, the opera and the hip hop all of that. Like, I, it's all real in me, like I, and so I found that I just have to stay consistently me and and, and it balance out. So what has been great is, like, similar to, like, a hip hop artist, I'm most of my fans are adults. There are some kids and the parents know, like, you know, I'm not really cursing in my music yet, but what my but with my social media presence and the in the way I operate there, it's like, okay, he's he's an adult. He's making this music that is interesting and accessible, and kids are loving it. Because I do. I have gone to speak and perform at a number of schools, from elementary, high school all the way to Juilliard, and it's been, the reception has been great. It's because it's terrifying performing a new kind of music in front of kids high school, kids in elementary they don't politely applaud for anything.

Rodney Veal  43:21

They are. They are tough crowd.

Babatunde Akinboboye  43:24

Trust me, even I show up during their assembly time, their free time, they're not in class. They're all this energy bouncing off the wall. There's no structure, and I'm supposed to but fortunately, as soon as I start going, at one elementary school, we had a mosh pit. The kids, the parents had, the teachers had to come in and break it up because they were having so much fun during the music they were just having it was completely locked in. It's, it's been great. It's been it's been really, really exciting. I love that.

Rodney Veal  43:53

I love the fact that it's not about, I mean, because, like, adults need education. I think that's the reason why I enjoy this podcast because of, like, people don't always get to know the person behind what they're hearing or experiencing or seeing. And it's like, they go, Oh, I said, Yeah, you know, where are human beings? Like, I just want to demystify it. It's like, you know, we have our passions, we have our loves. And the fact that you were able to marry your two passions and love into this place right now. I mean, what do you I mean, I'm kind of curious. Where do you see it going? I mean, because it's for you, not about us, because, you know, yeah, whatever you like, it's for you. What? What do you see it going for yourself?

Babatunde Akinboboye  44:37

One of, one of the things I've found that I've been I'm enjoying the most about what I'm doing is, um, I think the demystifying, as you said, because I came in to opera so late in the game, it never was mystified for me. It just was like, oh, it's, I didn't, never had that thing for it. So I've in the way I operate with it. I. Think I've just given a lot of people permission to engage with it in a way that feels authentic for them. I get after my concerts. One of the things that happens frequently is someone says like, you know, I used to play viola. My Viola has been in the attic for 15 years, but I'm going to go take it, take it out and go play, play it again, because I think people like that permission to, oh, I don't have to do it right. I can do it the way I want to. And so I found that I want to, I want to keep doing that. I want to keep demystifying this, this art form, and reintroducing it to people. And so in the sense where, you know, I think that's part of how my social media platform has grown. Because I talk about, you know, I'll tell people that if you think classical music is boring, that's because it is. It was really popular in the 1700s now, there's some of it that is still popular now, but if you think it's not interesting, it's not because you're on an uncultured swine. It's just not as it doesn't hit the same as it did before. You know opera. You're watching opera, the live opera, for a lot of people, back in the day, in the 1700s they're on the edge of their seat from top to bottom. Today, you know that opera singing, it's really cool for the first five minutes, but you know, I just saw a guy do a backflip off a dirt bike two minutes ago on my phone. Like, you're gonna have to step

Rodney Veal  46:29

it up. I love it. You said that there's a backflip up. You really, it's true. The Stepping up part, it's like, because, I think the audiences have because it's not a part of everyone's kind of world, and I think that's reason why I was always, I'm always curious about when people say I don't like a particular genre of music. And I saw it myself, because I was like, I'm not a fan of opera. And then all of a sudden we're like, oh, wait a minute. So you can take this art form and speak to a jazz great and talk about a life, an introspective life as an adult, I'm like, okay, that blew my mind. So then I got me in. So like, okay, yeah, all right. Now I'm at Cincinnati opera every summer, going to see all these operas, and also date night, date and opera,

Babatunde Akinboboye  47:14

like, Okay. Opera really just started off as story, storytelling, and the venues got bigger, and they try to figure out ways for people to hear it, so they started singing it. But it's really just great stories.

Rodney Veal  47:26

Yeah, there are really good stories. And, I mean, I always tell people, like, hold your horses. This is, like the best soap opera ever. It's like, these are this is drama. Is these are these. These are universal stories that says well, and it is storytelling. And I think that when getting people to kind of understand it, I think hip hop is storytelling as well. It's like, folks, it's not just to be it's like, come on, listen to those lyrics. Listen to how that cadence goes. I tell people all the time, analyze it, and you go dig a little deeper.

Babatunde Akinboboye  47:56

Between opera and hip and I love that I was introduced to classical music as a hip hop head, because I learned classical music through a lens of hip hop. So it made it very easy to see a lot of relationships. Just like, you know the hip hop artists, they have operatic lifestyles and like personalities. It's just part of who they are. It's like, I feel like the like, the only stage is big enough for those kind of personalities are opera stages. Like, it makes sense for them to for that, for that, for a guy to show up in a club with 30 people with him in an opera, it's like, it's like, it just lines. There's so much that just the alignment is there. It really is telling stories. What I don't get me started, but

Rodney Veal  48:47

go for it. Go for this. This is, this is what this form is the the focus

Babatunde Akinboboye  48:56

on storytelling and the relationship between the music and just certain, certain characters, certain like composers that have shown almost like reincarnated themselves as, like hip hop artists and have, like, the same personalities and same like reputation, same traits. And it's just, it's beautiful to watch it over and over, the same stories. And I think, and going back a little bit. I think that's a wonderful thing about opera, because it's storytelling. You everyone has a story. You tell someone's story, they're going to come listen to it. And the what's great about opera now is with the world opening up and becoming more, you know as the internet and so on and so forth, as the world becomes smaller, this opera is starting to tell new stories, because it's, it's telling these stories to more people, and more people want to see their stories. And I love that this evolution is starting, and it's happening. It's, it is difficult for some people, but change is, is always difficult for some. People. And I love that someone once told me a long time that the only thing that is permanent is change, and so so you once you get used to that, you can this limit.

Rodney Veal  50:11

There's so many things. And it was really funny, because I was going, I was going through your not funny, but I was going through your your resume. And I saw Detroit opera. Quite a few moments in Detroit opera, and I've always been fascinated as a you know that as to how Detroit opera has become this sort of hot bed for the reinvention of the opera growing experience.

Babatunde Akinboboye  50:39

I love what Detroit opera is like. What's it like

Rodney Veal  50:43

inside of that? Because it just, it's coming. It reads that way when I'm reading about it. Mike, road trip. Road trip. I need to make a

Babatunde Akinboboye  50:49

road trip so. So I, as you would imagine, I don't. I still get offers from a lot of opera companies to perform, but I say no to a lot of them. I say yes to Detroit more than any other one. Just okay. I very much like so, as you know, Detroit's a black city.

Rodney Veal  51:06

Oh, I went to school in Eastern Michigan University, so I know all my friends are from Detroit. So, right?

Babatunde Akinboboye  51:13

And so, a little while ago, they did Malcolm X, the Malcolm X, opera X, X, the life and times of Malcolm X, and it was the first time Detroit opera had sold out in a very long time. And what was beautiful is like, and I don't know why this doesn't happen more often, but they, they, they saw that, and was like, oh, one, I don't know why I took them that long to figure that out, but to do a black opera in a black city, that's another conversation. But they did it, and they were like, oh, maybe we should, like, cater to the community more, and they did in the most what I feel like is like, the most honest way. So first of all, like, having black people work in the administrator in the actual office has been something that that opera people have wanted for a long time. Because, you know, I've been an opera singer for years, and I think it was two years ago. Was the first time I had my hair done by someone who does black hair like a barber who knows what, what is going on, and my makeup and so on and so forth. A lot of us, we've had to learn to do our own makeup. And so, yeah, Detroit opera has made a real effort into developing a relationship with the community, having at their open night, having local, local businesses be vendors in the in the front lobby, in the foyer of the Opera House, having performers like pre concert perform in the foyer of like, you know, like gospel choirs or like, depending on and not just the other thing is, it does not feel performative, which, which has been my, my thing, I'm really, like, sensitive to that. And in these cases, they it feels like an honest, you know what they'll do. They did the opera Central Park Five, and then they had, they had they had people talk, and they had enough talks of education around it before the opera had just so people are watching it. And it's not just trauma porn, for lack of a better it's actually an educational experience. And I, and I've loved that they've done that, along with still doing the traditional operas, it has very, very high quality productions as well. That's the other thing. It's not like they're taking these resources and actually having all black casts do tell our stories, and it's been a beautiful experience so and I'm loving the directions that they're going, and I think the community is too Oh,

Rodney Veal  53:39

it's really loud and clear and the articles, and I know that it just, it just, I love how you said it's like, for lack of better and Trump, like, not using the vehicle as a traumatic device or to be performative. This is truly an immersion. And I think that that it takes, and I love what you said about behind the scenes. And so I mean, one of the things that's going to help the cause of the sustainability of not just opera, but the arts in general, is that, though, it's not just those who are in front of the spotlight, but those who operate the spotlight, those who operate the because if we change that, then the conversations about content, the conversations about the kind of work that could be present on the stage, the risk taking. Because I really do feel in these really interesting times that we live, take a risk, take a risk on the art form, speaking, because people want that, and so I love the fact that I got a chance to talk to talk to you, because that's what you're that's what your blending of the streams has done. You've challenged us to rethink and enjoy, but most importantly, rethink just a whole lot of stuff in relation to these two really powerful genres of music. And I just applaud you for that.

Babatunde Akinboboye  54:59

So I. Thank you.

Rodney Veal  55:00

I So thanks for being on our show talking about it. I just fascinated, and I'm hoping folks check him out. I because you been in Cincinnati. Are you coming back? Are you coming back? Sometime soon,

Babatunde Akinboboye  55:13

I will be there next week.

Rodney Veal  55:15

Next week,

Babatunde Akinboboye  55:16

I'll be there for the Oh, come on, we are one festival.

Rodney Veal  55:24

We are one festival. We are one festival. Unfortunately, this won't air before that, but unfortunately, but that's but that's okay. That's not the point of this. I want people to kind of know and dig a little deeper, and we'll talk about I'll talk you up, and I'll talk about that event as well in another vehicle, because that's where a media company, I just want to be able to know your story, because it's just it's just fascinating. You hooked me. You got me in way cool.