David Matthews | Author, Poet, & Musician

Multi-hyphenate doesn’t even begin to cover David Matthews. In this episode of “Rodney Veal’s Inspired By,” Rodney sits down with the Dayton-born poet, musician, social activist, and performer whose journey started on the basketball courts of Roosevelt High School and evolved onto stages across the country.

David shares how a career-ending injury shifted his path from college basketball star with 21 scholarships to full-time poet, how a minister first named his gift, and how a bold letter to Nikki Giovanni turned into years of mentorship and opportunity. He walks us through building a full-stage production around poetry, opening for icons like Gwendolyn Brooks, Gil Scott-Heron, Grover Washington Jr., and War, and becoming a true “OG” multi-hyphenate grounded in faith, family, and community.

Listen to more episodes of Rodney Veal’s Inspired By and catch The Art Show anytime on YouTube or the PBS app.

Learn more about the gallery online: https://www.davidmatthewsauthorpoetmusician.com

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Rodney Veal, Mike Shea, Promo, David Matthews

Rodney Veal  00:09

Hello, everyone. I'm Rodney Beal. I am the host of Rodney Beal's Inspired By, and today we've had a lot of guests on our show who's have who have the phrase "multi hyphenate" attached to their talent, but this is someone who's who's who who's kind of the OG of multi hyphenates as far as talent and creativity. I've had the pleasure of getting to know David over the last couple years, and he is a poet. He is a musician. He is a social activist. He is all the circles with all the folks that are who are doing that hyphenate OG work in our community. And I am excited that we're going to be on this podcast talking about your life, life's journey, and like your philosophies and your and who and what you are, so that people get to know you better, so that they will seek you out and seek out the work that you've done and continue to do. So, without further ado, the OG of multi hyphenate artists, David Matthews, welcome to the podcast. I'm the ultimate hype man, David. I'm the ultimate hype.

David Matthews  01:20

All

Rodney Veal  01:20

right, so there. Let's. I mean, I'm always about this because it's like because anyone who's in the creative arts, they have an origin story, and we had to talk about how you became this multi hyphenate, and so it goes way back. I mean, the thing is, you know, I did, I did all, I because I, you know, I do my digging. You know the fact that you went to Roosevelt is the same school that my father went to. My mother as well.

David Matthews  01:44

Okay.

Rodney Veal  01:45

Yeah. So it's like one of those moments. I'm. I will not date their age, but I suspect. I think my dad came out in 1959 or 1960. I'm not so sure. Not that old. I know. But Roosevelt was still around. So, but I just Roosevelt seemed to be this incubator for for just qual like the the just education and learning and just basketball because my dad played on the team so I know that this was the world so talk about how what was that like being in that space where you know no one questioned our athletic proudness but they also probably didn't question your abilities to write and speak and engage. Let me

David Matthews  02:23

tell you. Let me tell you something. Going to Roosevelt High School when I went in 1970, it had 3,000 kids. Now I don't know about the 50s, but see during that time they had incorporated the seventh and eighth grade, you could go there for seventh, which is very similar to the way they run Stivers now. Because my daughter went to Stivers and she went to seventh and eighth grade, and you know through high school there. So that's what it was. So you're you're you're in a place where 3000 kids. Now you can imagine we all walked to school then. So here's 3000 kids that were going to meet from all the neighborhoods to come down Third Street. They probably have a police patrol now if that many kids were coming down to the school. But we weren't causing any problems. We were going in there to get our our education. So to get you to understand, for me to make the basketball team and people to know that I played basketball for Roosevelt, 3000 kids was 900 freshmen. 300 went out for basketball competition. You ended up playing on the team, and I was very fortunate. I played varsity as a freshman, and very few people get to do that. You know, so if you come in playing varsity as a freshman, you know everybody knows you. You expect to do well to have that position, so it's difficult. But again, to make it through 300 people to be on the team, man, that's rough.

Rodney Veal  04:00

Well, but I think my dad has always said that that was a similar situation. Even when it wasn't 3000, it was competitive. It was this was not a joke. This was not a joke.

David Matthews  04:10

And here's what happened to me. I'm already known as an athlete. My dad put me a basketball rim out in my backyard when I was five years old. So people used to come to my house to play ball. It was it was a part of my life, and here I I'm turning 16. It's my sophomore year, and I'm having thoughts, and they're just running through my head, and I don't know what to do with them. And I after a while, I started grabbing pencil and paper, and I started writing them down, and it still didn't make any sense to me on what was going on with me. Now, my parents were very involved with church at the time, so our ministers used to come by and visit it. So one day, I pulled him to the side, and I asked, "I said, Reb, what's going on with me? Because I was beginning to think I might. Ready to get called? Am I going to be a minister? And he sat and talked with me. He says, "You know, from what you're telling me, I think you're going to become one of the greatest poets of our time period. And he said, "You just keep keep writing and keep putting these things down. So I took it a step further. 3000 kids in a school. We got a school newspaper, and I'm not thinking about Paul Laurence Dunbar has this similarity that I have at that moment until later on in life. And what I did is I developed a column in the school newspaper that came out every week called the message of the week or the thought of the week, and I mean, really put myself out there because you know how peers are. I mean, if they don't like, they was going, man, what you put that in there for? That was oh man, that was junk. But I never got that. I was getting people coming up to me and say, man, I read that. That was nice. It made me think. Keep doing that, and I kept doing it, and I kept doing it, even though I was playing ball. My poetry is always something I was just kind of putting together, kind of putting it on the side here. Didn't know when I was going to use it or when it was going to come to light. But just like the father gave me that talent, he also let me know when he was getting ready to use it, because here I am. I'm a basketball player, and most people tell you that that's what they saw me to become-a basketball player, a guy that's going to go to college. I had 21 basketball scholarships when I graduated from high school. I chose Urbana because my parents didn't want me to go too far away, but I could have went California, Florida anyway. But because they were older, I didn't do it. I stayed close to home. Now everybody's still thinking Dave's going to play college basketball. He's going to go to the pros, and that's what I'm thinking. You know, and and I believe that because there have been people before me like Rudy Benjamin, who went to Roosevelt. He ended up playing for the Houston Rockets. I was good friends with Donald Smith and Philip Blanken, who played for Philadelphia, and one played for Portland. So why do I don't think that a guy grew up on the West Side can't play pro basketball? Because you had

Rodney Veal  07:17

examples of it. You know that was a whole team. I mean, and that's the other thing that the people need to understand about Dayton. We just we we produce the talent. Oh, I mean, I can keep

David Matthews  07:27

going, man. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. It's like it's

Rodney Veal  07:29

it's just let's talk about

David Matthews  07:31

the game right now. The New York Knicks. Who's about who's the guy that's leading them? The guy from Dayton, Ohio, Townsend, who played at UD, who played at Trotwood. See, and he's in the national championship. So we're used to dating dating people producing. Okay, that's just what happens. Now, what happens to my dream? What happens to my dream? I blow my knee out the end of my sophomore year, and technology in 1972 was not the technology of today. I remember Kobe Blynn tearing an Achilles heel and was able to play again back in the day when you tore at Achilles' heel. That was it.

Rodney Veal  08:11

You were done. You were done. That's the advancement in technology and science. Sometimes here in Dayton, Ohio, because that's what they do. You see, what I'm, David, I'm finding out that we do a lot of experimental medical procedures in Ohio, now it's like so, folks. Don't fall into Ohio.

David Matthews  08:28

And here I learned a lesson about contracts. I blew my knee out, and I found out that it's not going to heal in time for me to be able to play again before my four years is over, it's almost like saying my career is over because it's going. By the time we do surgery and you hear you're in heel, you're in your senior year, and so I get called to the admissions office, and they want to ask me, have I read my scholarship contract, and I know you've heard this. Did you read the small print? Okay, that's

Rodney Veal  09:09

a that's a lesson in and of itself to people. I

David Matthews  09:13

told people I've made that. I said this turned out to be positive for me. But when you read contracts, we see so much in a contract. I'm not gonna go through all that, and we go through the highlights, and then it's one of them things that you miss. And in my contract, it said that I had a full scholarship ride with the admission fee and books as long as I was playing on the team for any reason for injury, because I was sick, my grades fell down, anything that kept me from actually playing on that team, being on that roster, I no longer have that athletic scholarship. Wow. So. So, so I I I say, what am I gonna do? Where they say, well, good thing you got a 3.3, and we're gonna finish you out on an academic scholarship. So I always tell people how that B plan has something to fall back on.

Rodney Veal  10:17

I love the fact that you talk about the thing is, and that's one of the things that I think a lot of times, especially young people, not understanding, read the fine print. That's one, but also too, the the B plan is always about education, and so knowledge. So, you know, as a former educator, you know, that's I've always preached that. I preached that when I taught at Stivers. I was like, I love fuck. I love your physicality. I love the fact that you can move, but you also have to be smart, and you also have to be able to know how to read a contract because that's a similar. Because that's a that that fine print is the same thing about when you dance. We hired you to perform and dance in college. You can't do it. We remove your scholarship. That is that fine print never changes. It doesn't change for sports art. It doesn't matter if you cannot produce what they asked you to produce in a contract, you out. And so the thing is, but my question is, my curiously during this entire time you're playing, were you still writing poetry? Were you writing constantly,

David Matthews  11:21

writing constantly, even took poetry courses. I wanted to know, and I tell people if you get into something, try to learn as much about it as you can. And so, since I'm there at the university, I'm trying to suck up all the knowledge that I can about writing and and learning about other poets and other writers and trying to figure out where I fit in, so what do I do again? I started calling them a school newspaper called Words, and Words allowed me to express my poetry along with other people's poetry on campus. And what it did, all of us were getting feedback about our writings because I had produced that column, and I kept that column going the entire time that I was there. Wow!

Rodney Veal  12:10

I mean, well, what it just says it speaks volumes about you. It speaks volumes about the fact that you were. I'm not going to use the word. I'm going to use the word, and not restless, because it's not restless. It's a curiosity, you and also a drive to kind of constantly sort of to explore forms of expression, and that seems to be the multi-phonate OG methodology. I have a language for it, that all of you, because it's very your story is very similar to Jimmy Jones. You know Jimmy Jones, the painter in Cincinnati. You guys, all of you, I like what? Okay, what was up? Like, was there something special in the water during that time period that all of you all said, "Let me not just do the thing, because he was in football, and everyone thought he was going to go and be pro football, and he ended up being an engineer. Then he ended up being a product designer at Procter and Gamble. I mean, so it's this thing, these expectations that we have, especially on men of color and creativity, and like you know, once they put you in a box, you're in a box, but you you've defied the box, so to speak.

David Matthews  13:24

Now, you know they always say when one door closes, another one opens.

Rodney Veal  13:29

Yeah,

David Matthews  13:30

I'm pure pure for that because my dream was being a pro basketball player, but when that dream had kind of ended and I had to accept that, I was already doing the poetry, and I begin to feel like I was pretty good at this. Yeah, and just like in basketball, I told the guys, I said, if no one had picked me up, I would have went to one of the pro camps and let them still see me where I played on the G League or something. I was still been going for that dream, right? So now that dream is over, and here's this other one that the father has given me, and I'll begin to feel like maybe I can do this. And I never forget my my my wife Asani asking me. She said, "What made you write Nikki Giovanni? That was

Rodney Veal  14:15

my next question, by the way. I mean, come on, that takes kahunas. I'm just gonna say,

David Matthews  14:23

I said, well, I told her, I said, well, just like if I was still gonna play at pro ball, whether I got drafted or not, I need some some other pros to tell me I either got it, I don't have it, and I said she was the hottest thing going at that time, and and I'm gonna give it give credit back to the father, because we do nothing without him. He gave me this talent, and he kind of guided me through it. Okay, and so she was editor of on she was editorial consultant of Encore magazine at that time, and I. I figured, Encore Magazine, big magazine, if I write a letter and send it to her and care of her editor of Encore magazine, that she'll get it, and of course she did. Now I said that in 1972, probably in March, and I didn't hear anything until June. And in June, when I hear something, now you probably remember the neighborhoods. I grew up in those neighborhoods where everybody knew everybody, and in that neighborhood. So if your prayers came out to holler for you, you better be hearing them, cause you supposed to be right there. You ain't supposed to be in nowhere. So my mom got to say one day, David, Mickey Giovanni's on the phone. Oh wow! I mean, all my neighbors and they was like, did I hear what? Did he just say? And my legs were weak, and I and I had a mix of emotions because I'm thinking, what if she just says, you know, you need more work, you need more study, you know, you're not quite there yet. Yeah,

Rodney Veal  16:17

you're willing to tell you accept the.

David Matthews  16:19

I'm willing to accept. Yeah, you ain't there yet, brother. You know, but I had written a poem, "The Feel the Feeling, at the time, which was the title of my first book, and didn't come out published until my second book. But it was a poem that I performed, and it was the poem on top. As a matter of fact, I sent a 25 handwritten poems because I couldn't type back in the days. I was basketball players. I had other people cheerleaders. They was typing my papers, but and later on I had to learn how to do that. But they were handwritten. But I had decent handwriting. And she told me later that she planned on reading one. She ended up reading all 25. That she usually gets a lot of mail, but she only got that one package that day. And what do you do when you got a bunch of mail? You might throw it to the side, but one package in me, open, see what this is. And she read it. I had my address, my phone number, and everything in there, basically saying, "Would you, if you got time, would you read one or two and see if I got 20? Got got some talent. And she read all 25, and I'm nervous, and I get to the phone, and I say hello, and she says David, and I said yes. He said that voice, and I had this voice since I was 14. Now, now you can work that voice with your talent because you're talented, and I know it from the first poem to feel the feeling. Right now, she decided that I was so talented that she was going to mentor me and just kind of show me the ropes. But she says, "I I got a question for you first before I commit myself, and I said, "What is that? She said, "What the number one book sold in the world is the Bible. The least sold book in the world is a poetry book. So you're stepping into an arena that very few people make it in. What makes you think you're gonna make it in this arena? And she said, "What's gonna make you different? I said, "Nikki, when they see me, they gonna say they ain't never seen nothing like me before. I said, "I'm gonna take poetry to a new dimension. I said everybody else has either been reading it like yourself, or Sanya Sanchez, or Gwendolyn Brooks, or they've been doing it with music like Gil Scott or the Last Poets, the Last Prophets. I said I'm gonna bring my poet to your life on stage. It's gonna be called an Evening on Broadway with Arthur, poor musician David Matthews, and I built a production from college. I was able to travel with my production my last two years of college because the college knew I was working with Nikki Giovanni. They also knew that in 1973, when Nikki Giovanni and Dick Gregg became the Central State University, that she asked that I come too. She told student government who I was. They contacted me. I got guy got on the program, and you know what else? She made sure I got paid. I wasn't even expecting to get paid. I was just accepting. You just

Rodney Veal  19:36

excited that you was like, "Hey, she she thought of me. But you know, I get it, which I totally get. When

David Matthews  19:41

you call me OG, you see who I'm. Well, you attended

Rodney Veal  19:45

with the OG who was helping you become the OG. I mean, Gwendolyn. OGs don't form under rocks,

David Matthews  19:51

right? I open up for Gwendolyn Brooks. I open up for Gil Scott-Heron. I open up for Grover Washington Jr. All these are OGs. Nikki Giovanni. Dick Gregory, see, and I'm a poet, opening up for these people. Even when war came to Dayton, I open up for them at Jillies.

Rodney Veal  20:09

Wow, wow! Which is right down the street from us here at the station.

David Matthews  20:13

Right down the street.

Promo  20:15

I'm Bonnie Miles, membership coordinator of CET. Thank you for listening to Rodney Veals inspired by this podcast is a production of CET and Think TV, two local PBS stations. As PBS stations, the work we do online, on air, and in the community is supported by listeners like you. If you're enjoying the show and would like to support our work, please consider becoming a member at CETConnect.org or Or thinktv.org. Plus, when you sign up to donate at least $5 a month, you'll get access to special members-only streaming videos on the PBS app through Passport. Learn more at cetconnect.org or thinktv.org.

Mike Shea  20:56

If you're enjoying this conversation, the art show, also hosted by Rodney Veal, is available to stream anytime from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app. Now people say, "Now,

David Matthews  21:05

how in the world did that happen? Would you like to hear that story?

Rodney Veal  21:08

Yeah, I want to know how you got on the stage.

David Matthews  21:14

Okay, go back to this poem, "The Feel the Feeling" again. It's very powerful piece, and at that time, war had produced an album. See if I can take you back. It was it was a silver album, and they called it Platinum Jazz. And if you after we got the phone, you can look it up. And on the and you know back albums, they had two sides. So on the second side was a piece called "I Got You, and it was a jazz instrumental piece, no words, nothing, and I begin to use that as my background for the piece. And so, since I was using that, I Jerry Gelotti and I knew each other, and he told me he was the producer in the because I played with other bands there. He says, "Well, Ron Patterson is producing that show. I'm gonna hook you guys up. Now, this is how long ago I gave Ron Patterson a cassette tape. Okay, so

Rodney Veal  22:12

let me like see. I didn't tell some of the people in my audience a cassette device to usually recorded sound on because some people. There's some people who don't even know what a what a CD is. So let's just be very clear. Let's be very clear. A VHS. I

David Matthews  22:27

seen a commercial where guy was looking at this VHS like, "What's that? So I sent them a cassette tape. Ron Patterson gave it to Howard Scott, who was still the only original member with the group, who was the leader of the group then listened to it, and he was so impressed with it. He said, "Get in touch with this guy. I want him to do this piece to open up for us when we open up tonight. And I got to open up for them for a couple of times, and to do it for Grover. I met Grover in the French Quarters down in New Orleans while I was down there doing a performance at Tulane University, and he was performing, and we saw his bus. I knocked on the door, told him who I was. He said, "Come on in. I did some poetry for him, and I heard from him about a week later. He says, "Look, I want you to meet me down at Southern University in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I want you to open up for me. Do that poem, the field of feeling. Now, some people were turned on to that, and other people were turned on to that other poem. America, ain't you got no shame? It's back here behind me, that one right there. That was in Right On Magazine. Now, let me give you a little history about Right On Magazine, because most people don't know about that. Right On

Rodney Veal  23:36

Magazine, but but also too, magazines is a publication that people used to buy thing in a newspaper. I hate to tell you, you don't understand when you say stuff. You can just explain it to the audience. Magazines are a thing. I remember right on magazines.

David Matthews  23:52

Yeah. So I remember going in Wilkie's when I was. Oh

Rodney Veal  24:00

my God! You know Bookie's Bookstore. It was the

David Matthews  24:02

bookstore. Okay. Yeah, I worked there. And oh well, here here's some history between us. You may know this. When my book came there in 1976, the only other black poet in Dayton who had a published book in that store was Paul Laurence Dunbar.

Rodney Veal  24:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Matthews  24:22

I was the no other one had come forward. I was like Dayton, you know. Let's be very

Rodney Veal  24:30

let's be very clear. That was the only bookstore in town. Let us be very

David Matthews  24:36

clear. Nobody. So to get in there, because I went there when

Rodney Veal  24:42

I was a kid. Was

David Matthews  24:43

amazing, and I got in there first through Right On Magazine because they sold those, and Write On Magazine was just a magazine that talked about the stars and TV and movies and and entertainment. Ain't talking about nobody in poetry. Didn't have no. Mikey Giovanni ain't nobody in there, but we the talent in Roosevelt once again. There's a guy that's still performing me now named Derek Floyd. Derek and his sister Sidney Floyd won a contest in California, national songwriting contest, and they went to Roosevelt and they were good friends of mine. The matter of fact, they should have been the first black carpenters, and they had a contract with Gamble and Huff, but things went wrong. That's a whole nother story. But anyway, they were they they were in Right On magazine, and I knew that when I went over their house one day, and they said, "Dave, you need to talk to the editor of Right On magazine, and they called her right up, told her who I was, handed me the phone, and said, "Do your poem, America, and you got no shame. I did that poem. Flo Jenkins fell in love with it. I became the first poet to ever be in that magazine, and it's so funny about that because I way I found out I was in the magazine is I happened my Flo my Flo Weatherspoon was one of my friends, and I happened to be at his house, and his niece came in one day, and she said, "There's a guy from Dayton in Write On Magazine. He said, "What's his name? He said, "David Manti. He said, "There he is, laying on the couch. Because I used to spend the night at his house sometimes because we was in a group together, and I didn't want to go all the way back home. I just stayed here. So she was amazed that there's somebody in Dayton, Ohio, that has made Write On magazine. Well, that also helped me in Wilkie's when because my contract, my first book was not self-published. It was with Vantage Press. Now a lot of people don't know who Vantage Press was. They were one of the biggest boys in the business at the time in New York. And what I liked about Vantage Press is if you were good enough, you might make the New York Times, and that's what happened to me. Because you got to realize, I started in '73. I had already done 60 schools by 1976 in June when that book. So I already had an audience out there that knew who David Rattley. You were a dirty circle. There was this magazine that it came out with this piece in it, and then I won the award the second time from the Los Angeles American Poet Society, and ended up in the magazine again. This time with my picture in there. No poet had ever done that, so people are becoming aware of me by my performances. I was even asked to speak at my graduation. My book was the first book ever indoctrinated into the University Urbana University Library. Now there may be some other authors after me, but I was the very first one. So to Wilkie's, you're with Vantage Press. I'm picking up the phone. They're talking to them. They send us promo on you. I developed other promo. I put posters and other stuff out that they didn't even do. But this guy's big time. He's with Vantage. He's been discovered by Nikki Giovanni. They knew who she was, even though her book wasn't in there at that time. Okay, her books till we got B. Dalton bookstores. Do you remember? Right. I remember B. Dalton's because they were when they they started showing up in

Rodney Veal  28:03

the malls. Let's see. There we go.

David Matthews  28:05

And I had a contract with B Dalton Bookstores as well. My books were in B Dalton Bookstores, so Wilkie's opened their arms to me because I was with Vantage Press. That book came out in June, and by the time we were approaching them, we were telling them and sending them a clipping that in August I was in the New York Times newspaper. Another thing I used to look at at Wilkie's because they used to carry it, and my book was one of the top 10 sellers from Vantage Press. So they didn't feel like they were taking a chance on me, they felt like this guy's got some history. Sure, we'll put your books in the store.

Rodney Veal  28:45

Right.

David Matthews  28:46

Okay. So since they did it, guess who else did it? Reichs had a book department store too, and not many African Americans were in there. But because Wilkie's took it, they took it, and because they took it, Bidal Bookstores ticket.

Rodney Veal  29:01

Wow! See, and what I love, what I love about it, David, is the fact that when you talk about places and locations and people providing the space for your work, it. I always say, you know, one of the things that we always talk about, you know, on the podcast, when I've talked to other artists, and I and I have talked to. We are now in season four of this podcast. Just so you know, it's been going. It's been going. I'm like, who? But I love what I love is is the consistency of of hearing the stories when people say you've got to you got to you got to take a chance on yourself, like you-you can't be afraid to ask to knock on the door. And one of the things that I noticed about what when I you know read about you, and I've you know I've talked to others about you, is that you're not afraid to knock on the door. You can't like no, you've just got to go. Come on now, I mean, there's there's something to be said about. I mean, because I because we haven't even talked about music, which I need to. This is what multi hyphen is due to this podcast. Like y'all got too many parts, and it was like you know, because music had to have played a part in your life the entire time in life as well, especially with that voice. I can't imagine somebody didn't get you in the church choir. I tell

David Matthews  30:23

people I played several different instruments, just figuring out which one I was going to play, and they said, "How far back can you go? And people know who Stevie Shockley is. He plays guitar for Lakeside and has been for many years. And when Stevie was growing up, Stevia and I, along with a guy named William Green, had a had a band together, and I was playing, learning how to play bass guitar at the time, and I played clarinet and I played keyboard. I just couldn't find that right instrument until I got on college campus, and these Africans start playing these drums on Saturday mornings in the football field, and now it seems like the drums are saying, "Come over here, Dave. Come on over here. And when I got over there, I just stood and I watched them, and they said, "Do you want to learn how to play? And I said, "Yes. So they gave me a cowbell. I said, "I want to know how to play the drums. He said, "Well, you have to learn how to kick beat on the cowbell first before I can even let you touch my drum. I said okay, so so I met down out there every Saturday and learned how to play those drums and and and learned. Now I play 19 different Latin percussion and African instruments, but it started with them Africans on campus and hearing them drums and having them drums just kind of bring me to it, and then I incorporated it in my performance. Now I told you my performance was an evening on Broadway. It was costumes, backdrops, lighting effects, sound. You did the whole

Rodney Veal  31:51

like you made a one-man show.

David Matthews  31:53

Well, everybody knows me here. I came to the convention center in 1980 and packed the place. What else happened in 1980? My second book came out. Time brings about a change, which I ended up reading when that poem. When I first wrote that poem, I woke up my friend Bing Davis at 3o'clock in the morning and read it to him. And and and I really realized what time the other OG, the other OG, and I didn't know six months later he was going to invite me to his house and show me a painting that he had dedicated to me and Paul Laurence Dunbar sitting over here. But it's a painting dedicated to. I don't know if we can move this to them to see it. Let me see if we can get it in the picture. There it comes. Can you see it?

Rodney Veal  32:42

I can see it. Yes.

David Matthews  32:44

Okay. The thing

Rodney Veal  32:45

is, I'm familiar with that piece because we're in a documentary.

David Matthews  32:49

Right.

Rodney Veal  32:50

Photograph. That photograph's in the documentary. Right. I know that for a fact. Now that painting,

David Matthews  32:56

that painting is done because of Paul Laurence Dunbar's poem "We Wear the Mask, and I tell people to understand why you did the painting. Please go back and and read the poem. We wear the mask, right? Because we all do. We hide behind something, trying to portray who people who who we think people want us to be. You know, and my poem "Time Brings About a Change. It either does with you or with you, and on my book, it's the hand is the set of midnight, but it's it's five seconds after because that minute hand lets you know it's the dawning of a new day, and what I've tried to do is bring forth a message in my poetry, and and and what what I love feeling is somebody saying, "Hey, poet, because you notice I spell my name in small letters. Now, don't do that because the e comings, and that's where most people relate the small letters that the Lord hates coming from. I told people, I don't care if you remember my name; you need to remember my message. And they said, "Well, what is your message? I said, "My message is for you to understand that the most important word in the world is to sponge, sponge, sponge, because it means absorb, it means take in, it means soak up, and that's what all of us should be doing 24 hours a day, just soaking up knowledge, because knowledge is what's going to save you. What you don't know, it will hurt you somewhere down the law. That's reason I say when a person wants to get in my business or anybody else's type of creativity, learn as much about it, the contracts, the art of it, everything. Because this, you don't need nothing to hit you in the face that you did not know, because all of this is a part of you. So when a person stops me and says "poet, I'm still sponging. See, I don't care if you didn't remember my name, but see, if you tell me you're still sponging, I know that you got my message. And you're still using that message in your life. When someone says, "My mama brought me to see you, that lets me know I'm definitely OG. Well, no,

Rodney Veal  35:14

your mama brought you. It's like yeah.

David Matthews  35:16

I've gotten many comments. One of the best was performing at Mississippi Valley State, and even being a Mississippian. And if you don't know know anything about it, that's where Jerry Rice came from, the football player, San Francisco. He went to that school, so it's HBU. And a guy came to a show, and he brought his mom, and he said, "You know, I didn't even really want to come to no poetry show. He said, "But couldn't turn Mama down. She didn't have a ride. I brought her, and I'm gonna have to admit to her that I'm so glad I came. I learned so much. I didn't think a poet could entertain me because I had people say, "What are you gonna do, Dave? You gonna stand at the podium? You gonna read? No, I read only one or two. I'm performing most of them, and each one of them has their own individuality. My daughter has been performing with me on stage. I've been on stage for 50 plus years, but she's been on stage with me. She's 35 years old now, over 20 years. She came on stage with me when she was 10 years old. She used to listen to us rehearsal on the basement steps, and by the time we brought on stage, she basically said, "I already know my parts. I know what I'm supposed to do. And then she ended up taking theater at Stivers and and in advance there. But here's something else: as a father daughter performing team, we are the only ones still in existence and have that longevity. Now the difference is there are other father daughter teams. Now Ron Howard and his daughter. She's he's an actress. He's acting, but he may produce something that she's in. We're the only two that are on stage together performing my work. Now my production only performed my work. I didn't need any other poets with me to perform what I'm doing. I just need you to perform what I'm doing. So I had musicians that sometimes put down their instruments and became actors on stage. They were like hecklers in the crowd, having responses to my poetry of what I'm saying, which made the crowd get into it, you know, even more.

Rodney Veal  37:17

I, you know, the thing what what that that you you you are just the sponge part got me because it's true. It's legitimate. You got to have

David Matthews  37:29

a you got a method to your madness now. You got to have a method.

Rodney Veal  37:32

Well, well, I I love the I love the use of the word sponge, and I think what what I love is the fact that you you've you've brought your family in. Your wife's a writer, you know. You know this is a full-on talk to me, like because I want people to understand. Like this is for the audience. Talk, talk about what you can't, what it takes to live this life creatively, beyond just the sponge. Because I think a lot of people don't understand, like because they'll they'll they'll immediately they'll stop themselves. Somebody some something will come up like oh you can't make I can't I can't support myself being a poet I can't support myself being this I can't like these things where they they stop themselves. I think it was like like you know what that's the whole where does the fearlessness come from? I'm just saying that

David Matthews  38:18

created the production. I knew that I couldn't make the kind of money Gil Scott and Nikki Giovanni was making. I'm just new out there, but I got a production that's different. I got a bunch of people and musicians and props and carpet for the floor and everything else. They it was like you're a poet because I'm doing something that no one else, and now you got to pay me. You have to pay a production, right?

Rodney Veal  38:44

Okay, okay.

David Matthews  38:46

You got to pay a production. So there's a a difference with that. The way I even presented myself. Now let's get back to. You got to believe in yourself first. You got to have knowledge. So like I said, study everything that you need to know about what you're doing, you can't be laxing or nothing, you know. I had to teach my manager how to manage me. She had never managed a poet. Who manages a poet? But you manage me very similar to how you would manage a musician or any type of production. That's how you manage me, you know. So the other let's be very

Rodney Veal  39:25

clear, but but let's be very clear with folks. Like that managing is an art form in and of itself to manage an artist. So I'm like no no no no no no no. This is this is everybody has to be on the same level of of the thing

David Matthews  39:46

of the thing, and I started managing bands coming to my school when I was at Urbana because I came from Dayton, Ohio, where there's tons of bands. I brought Rogers, Ohio players, and everything else we had to come to my school. Because I found out they had student activities monies to do that kind of stuff, so I learned from someone who did that that was there, and all they taught me was with your thing, you're just booking yourself as a poet compared to booking a band. But it's the same thing. I had to go to a lawyer, have them design my contract, but I'm motivated through the father, and I tell people all the time that He is with us all the time. His rod and His staff guide us all the time, not just certain times during the weekend when He feels like it. You know, we don't have to go to a place of worship to talk to Him. He's right here. My dad said, "Why are you talking all loud? He's not hard to hear. You can whisper. You ain't even got to say it. You can think it. That's just how close he is to you. And the sooner you realize that, then the better off you're going to become, and the better you're going to be able to get through life. I had excellent upbringing. I came up with that time where the whole neighborhood raised you. If you did something, Miss Jones liable to tell on you. You always seem like you got towed on a lot. I never got. I

Rodney Veal  41:11

was never bad. I was never bad. My brother was a little bit right. But but but but everybody had a had a hand in

David Matthews  41:20

it because

Rodney Veal  41:20

we all had it was the streetlight rule. I'm sorry.

David Matthews  41:23

Thank you, bro. I'm sorry about the streetlight. I didn't get everybody to get on that level. Did the parents have a meeting? I said we didn't think about it. We never questioned them. I never asked nobody. You know what? Since everybody had to do it, you just said okay, man. Because if I was over somewhere and those lights came on. I knew that they how they came on in rotation. So let me haul home before. Let me go the journey.

Rodney Veal  41:48

Like they need to see that you were making the motion towards the house. Yeah, because my parents were standing

David Matthews  41:52

on the porch. So what I could sneak in in the back door. I said, no, no, no, because you know you're supposed to come through the front, and I need to see you,

Rodney Veal  42:01

wow! See

David Matthews  42:02

now, I wasn't as bad as one of my wife's friends. She said she had that same room when she grew up, but she was on the porch when the lights came on, and she still got a whooping because her mama says she don't live on the porch; she live in the house. See, now mine wasn't that strict. As long as I was on that porch, I was

Rodney Veal  42:20

right, and I benefited from being the baby, so it was kind of like I, you know, got a little bit of like, but but but I never pushed it. I never pushed it because I saw what happened, and my brother would push it. I was like, well, you know what? He's gonna if he's gonna break the rules, let me and and that's repercussions. I don't want that, so let me just get my butt.

David Matthews  42:40

Right, I see. We we running. We've got about nine minutes. It looks like. Yeah. So

Rodney Veal  42:46

I and I I love this conversation, and I know we got a little moment. I want you to. There was a because what I love is the fact that you you've rooted your work in a positive message and language, and and and I and I think you need to and and and it's appropriately titled the message. I want you to recite a piece of your work. Yeah.

David Matthews  43:13

Um, I was hoping we could do the video, but since we can't do the video, I just want to talk about the video a little bit, and this that poem is called "The Word Violence Must Be Stopped, and I think everyone can agree with me on that. I cannot get up no morning without them starting off with a shooting or something. So I want you to just stop this word violence, eliminate it, and it's up to us to do it. Now this poem comes. The message is this in this book. This is my latest. It's called Poetry Classics, and all my best work is in here. And I had poems that I was able to call Nikki and say, Nikki, read. I'm gonna read you this poem. And all the ones are in there. She said, read that for me again. This is one of them. Message, children of the earth, the time has come for us to go forth and become fruitful in the sharing of our wisdom, giving back to our forthcoming the knowledge of our experiences which we have collected by walking through closed and open doors, by walking inside weak and strong minds, by walking and touching cold and warm hearts, by walking down endless and dead-end alleys, by walking beside and inside self, look at my eyes until you become comfortable with their rich, dark color of distance, and if you might, while also gazing, open your mind to its greatest capability, it is very possible that you will set free an extension of yourself. Please do not deny or fear this flow of positive energy, for it is only a blessing stored upon you. From birth.

Rodney Veal  45:25

And that's how you end the podcast

David Matthews  45:30

message. All

Rodney Veal  45:33

right, David, I'm telling you, that's how you do it. That's how you do this. That's how you do this. That's and that's the perfect way to end. I tell everybody, and the thing is, you know, David, we can. I think we can include the link to the video if that's possible. You know, in in the in the and the video is on my

David Matthews  45:53

website. So we so and I see a note from our producer that yes, we can. So I want to make sure. Yeah, I see.

Rodney Veal  46:00

Mike's got it. Mike's got it going on. Mike said he got it. He got it. So, so folks, when you're listening to the podcast, know that also that that you can you can click on that link and you can and you can watch the video as well. David, I tell you to

David Matthews  46:14

see that video, man. We got to stop this violence thing.

Rodney Veal  46:17

Absolutely.

David Matthews  46:18

I mean, pretty soon we're not going to be able to go to high school graduations. We've had three incidents in high school graduations. Even one in California where a guy got shot in the parking lot, getting ready with his cat and rogue, getting ready to graduate, and he don't get to graduate. I mean,

Rodney Veal  46:34

yeah, sisters, I'm

David Matthews  46:36

getting ready to perform in Toledo in a couple of weeks, and my sister is saying, who lives in Detroit, we was coming down the sea, but I don't know, you know, because all this violence with the youth, and you know, they they got us scared, man. And we're gonna have to realize, we we we work with the Father. I tell everybody, take your angels with you anytime you step out the house, leave pride and jealousy in the closet where it belongs, and if necessary, change shirts often to keep your feelings off your sleeve.

Rodney Veal  47:10

All right, okay, here

David Matthews  47:11

we go,

Rodney Veal  47:13

David. Thank you for being on the podcast, man. Oh man, thanks you for allowing me

David Matthews  47:18

to share myself just to oh yeah, and people check it out. If people want to come see me perform, I perform play with the Motown sounds a touch. I'm their percussionist. We're gonna be at Riverscape on Friday, July 31st, from seven to nine. It's a free concert. Rarely do you get a chance to see us for free. They're the number one Motown tribute in the country, so come see us.

Rodney Veal  47:44

See, there may be

David Matthews  47:46

to do some of my poetry too. There you go.

Rodney Veal  47:48

I love it. I love it, and I and we'll make sure people check it out whenever you see David's name, Matthew's name attached. So you need to go. Be a part of my podcast, brother. 

David Matthews  47:59

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Me and my wife appreciate, and so far productions appreciate you giving us this opportunity.