Megan Flynn & Teresa VanDenend Sorge | Dance Artists

A life in dance isn’t something Megan Flynn and Teresa VanDenend Sorge “do” — it’s how they survive, process, and stay fully alive. In this episode of Rodney Veal’s Inspired By, Rodney sits down with the “dynamic duo” of contemporary dance in Cincinnati to talk about creativity, aging bodies, risk, and why movement is still home.

They trace their journeys from basement studios and mommy-and-me classes to Fringe Festivals, college teaching, and deeply personal, story-driven work. Along the way, they unpack what it means to dance in your 20s versus your 40s and 50s, how collaboration becomes friendship, and why play is essential when life gets heaviest.

Listen to more episodes of Rodney Veal’s Inspired By and catch The Art Show anytime on YouTube or the PBS app.

Learn more about the Megan online: https://www.flynndance.org/
Learn more about Teresa online: https://teresavandenendsorge.com/

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Megan Flynn, Rodney Veal, Promo, Teresa VanDenend Sorge

Rodney Veal  00:09

Hello, everyone. My name is Rodney Veal, and I'm the host of Rodney Veal's Inspired By. This is one of those moments where I get to introduce two people that are friends, and so it's like it's kind of unfair to the audience, but but the but there's also a reason because I consider them to be the dynamic duo of contemporary dance down in Cincinnati, and they are like I said, dear friends. And we're gonna probably talk about the things that we've done together. But I adore these two awesome ladies who are pushing forward and pushing through and doing cool stuff down in Cincy in the dance scene, because you know you know that's my first love. So without further ado, Megan Flynn and Teresa Van Denen Sorge, who are just Megan and Teresa to me, because we have had some experiences and journeys. Welcome to the podcast.

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  01:03

Thank you so much for having us. I

Rodney Veal  01:06

hope I didn't embarrass you guys too much with the intro. I mean, so, so I have to start. So it's you know, it's it's a love fest, folks. Sorry, I'm just going to go there. We got to start from the beginning, and we'll just jump from person to Person, but this this whole notion of a life and dance, where did it begin for individually, and then we get to the collective together. But individually, where did it start? Who wants to jump in? I'm I'm just kind of curious for the audience to know.

Megan Flynn  01:38

I mean, I could start. So I've been danced from day one. I, you know, I was doing like movement in front of the TV. I feel like my parents were like watching me like groove to anything that was on, and they put me into like creative dance, a mommy and me class when I was two and a half. And I feel like I haven't stopped from there. It was I. I began my journey with creative dance, and then started studying classical ballet when I was five years old, and I just haven't stopped. And so, yeah, it's been a really rewarding journey, and I feel like to have a career, a lifelong career, in something that I I love, and to work with collaborators has just been such a joy!

Rodney Veal  02:21

Awesome, Teresa. Teresa, lifelong.

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  02:26

Yep, lifelong. I was, I think, three years old when my mother. The memory is that she did not know what to do with me, and so a neighbor was teaching dance in the basement. So I went over and took basement dance class, and that's where it all began, and it was something that I could just never get away from. It just continued to follow me, and I just needed it to sustain. So continued dancing, sort of all through, and went on to college and dancing life, and yeah, it's been a wild ride.

Rodney Veal  02:58

Oh, it definitely has, and so I mean, well, I love the fact that it's like you just never known a life of not dancing. Mine was always just movement. I was moving constantly, and it just kind of I think it just kind of triggered its way into dance. That seemed to be the pathway. But the thing is, you know, dance is not a how do I describe it? Like for for a lot of people. They because I talked to a lot of art artists in other realms. Dance you got to be fully. This is not a you can't half step an experience. No pun intended. In dance, it is full. It's full on. I mean, I don't think people fully understand how full on it is. I mean, what's your take on that? I mean, how do you explain that to people and like this is real? But I know, but they don't know. They don't know.

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  03:51

Yeah, I mean, I I think just thinking about my journey growing up, I always say that I when I was growing up, I learned how to love to dance, and I was in a creative dance studio that was really just about self-expression, and I didn't have a lot of strict training, and so I really grew up in this like idea of expressing myself through my body and sort of having a voice and being able to just be free in myself for for who I was, and then I went off to college to major in dance, and I learned a lot and got my butt kicked. Don't we

Rodney Veal  04:28

always college always does that to you? Yeah.

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  04:30

So then I definitely really went into some heavy training and I was doing you know everything I could, but I really felt that I was around grounded and rooted in this, like this is the thing I have to do, and I'm just like I need more and more and more skills to keep doing it. And as I've you know through the decades, it's looked different each each decade, and it's it's so deeply connected to what my life story has been that it's it's just been this like. This outlet for a lot of different things I've gone through, and I just I need I need to be moving through the things for life to be joyous and great,

Rodney Veal  05:14

which is why I love hanging out with you guys. So Megan, talk talk to me about that. That that elaborate on that. Yeah, like yeah, I feel like so fascinating.

Megan Flynn  05:26

I think it's almost like a a way of like I call it my choreography of survivor, like survival, like this idea that like I I literally have to dance to survive. Like it's the thing that that sustains me. That like is like a life force that I tap into, and then I feel fully embodied, fully human, fully myself. If I'm not dancing, like I feel like part of me is dying. So I think this is something like I knew from a young age, but I didn't really like have words to describe it. And I think kind of different from Teresa. Like I had a lot of formal training in my early years, and then when I got to college, it was this place of like, oh, wait a minute, what do I do with all of this technical training? Like, what's the purpose of like fine tuning the body if it's not about finding some sort of expression and connection? And so I think it's like understanding that dance for me is a way of not just like it is the expression, it is the the life. the the life giving, the life nourishing, the life connecting and force of like being human, being alive. But then, like also like breaking the rules that I had constructed around what I thought to what it meant to be a dancer, or or how I should move my body.

Rodney Veal  06:38

If

Megan Flynn  06:38

anything, it was like kind of like releasing all of those like attachments, and then being like, no, no, no. If I'm going to continue, it has to be like a an ever expansive, growing thing.

Rodney Veal  06:50

Oh, that's such

Megan Flynn  06:51

rather than like a confining, like squeezing into a box, because that feels like a deadening thing, and I I need dance to be the thing that keeps me alive and and opening,

Rodney Veal  07:02

opening. I love the way you say that because, like I said, it was for the audience. Like we had, we'd have these great conversations even before we would dance. I mean, that the fact that folks. I'm full disclosure. We've danced together. We've performed together. We've collaborated. We've we've we we have shared some life journeys together. Let's call it call it for that for real. And I think that's really to hear you say that is just think about. That's a similar process for for creativity and art making. It cannot. It's not about narrowing you, pushing you down. It should be opening you up, and that's why I always I'm like you know because you're both educators and you're both working with dancers, and this notion of like how do you get you know that it seems to be that seems to be the the first thing that's coming through your educational practice when you are actually teaching because dancers we teach we choreograph we make we you know, but but it seems to be this philosophy that guides it. I mean, so I mean, what are your thoughts on? I mean, that aspect of it, that opening up, that just you know, for you even Teresa, it's like you you you all both of you big ideas talk about nothing inside of a box. Yeah, and risk taking. Okay, so

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  08:27

yeah, I think that just as an individual, I have discovered how much I process through my body, and I can brain things for just so long, I can like think through the logistics for only so long, and I I have to move into my into my body to understand my circumstances, and I think that that's that part of that pushing out of that box and moving away from what is confining me, for lack of a better word, you know, just like, and then what I learn when I sort of submit to that experience of understanding it through the body is a whole new way around a situation or a whole new way to approach something, and you know, we've had performances. You and I have had performances, Rodney, where you know you walk you walk away from it, and I I've learned something so specific about myself and my personal journey because of the 13 minutes that we shared on stage, and I really think that that that's that like to to your question about like when I'm in the room and teaching children and being an educator and how like my practice informs my pedagogy. That's that. That's I think that that's the the gift that I hope that I can guide other dancers through is this experience of like submitting to your own body and like oh there's so much knowledge that's held you know in our body and you know. Generational knowledge and lots of things that we carry, and to allow yourself to experiment with that space is just like one of the most amazing things about being human. And I, I, that's what I want for the world. I want people to be able to to understand life from a body place.

Rodney Veal  10:20

Yeah, it's you know, and under it's just like it's such a how to describe like like it's like we do the law. We're always doing movement to describe the thing we can't use our words for. It's like it's the texture of it. It's the texture of it that just kind of makes the process so worth it, even when, I mean, because you know, I learned a new phrase. You know, a person of a certain age, paka. I'm a paka. I love it. I love that. I love that. And so, you know, it changes. It just it changes over time. And talk about how it's different to be dancing in your 20s versus your 30s and your 40s. I mean, you know, like let's talk about that. It is different. I mean, when I was 20, it was a it was wild abandonment. Is would be the only word to describe by dancing. It was out of control. But it's now turned into something else, and I think over time. Do you think that that is another factor that plays into it? It just kind of the technical aspects of how you dive into your body moving because your body is definitely apaca. I love that. Like, what is it? Yeah, that's like. What does it feels like? Like, what? What? How do you describe it to an audience? I mean, about the body, time, body and time. I

Megan Flynn  11:48

feel, I feel like for my body at this current, current age and current how I am operating, it feels like the ability to be still or to be present without the extra movement is something that's different than what I was able to do in my 20s and 30s. Like the ability to hold space and be like in front of an audience and on stage and physically present in my body without needing to do something like virtuosic. Like it's about just being a human with all of this life experience, and not needing to hide or mask or or only present like the most refined version. But there's something about whatever version I am that day is showing up and and being authentic with an audience, I feel like is a significant shift in my performance body, like in this ability to to be like performing and presenting and sharing my work, and that it can look like not like a lot of big movement. It can look like just being present, and I. It took a long time for me to be comfortable with that. That that was enough, you know. Not like how how much am I stretching? How how how am I using my feet? How am I using my body? It's like the trusting that it's all necessary. It's all part of the the work.

Rodney Veal  13:20

Yeah. Wow! Wow! Wow! And so it's like you know, and from my experience, so you know, for the audience, is like we started. I try to remember when did we start dancing together. I just feel like it's just been forever, and I just I don't know. I don't know. I don't know a start time. I was really thinking about this weekend. I'm like, huh. I mean, I guess I could have cheated and googled it, but

Megan Flynn  13:44

2023 was the Fringe Show.

Rodney Veal  13:47

Okay,

Megan Flynn  13:48

our first Fringe show, and I don't know if you, when you and Teresa started working together.

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  13:53

Yeah, I I think it was several months before that, like maybe the end of 22 or the beginning of 23 is when we started talking about the work.

Rodney Veal  14:03

Whoa! I mean, not to put time on it, but yeah, I was like, so because that was that was for the fringe. That was the first time we actually kind of collaborated, right?

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  14:14

Yeah, yeah.

Rodney Veal  14:15

I I I remember when you asked me to do it. I just felt so honored to be asked to be a part of the. I really was. I was just like, oh my god. I'm like, I thought I was past the expiration date, so to speak, of kind of exploring movement. You know, that's just you know, that's just the way we treat ourselves. But it was such a liberty. I love the fact that it was about a conversation about us being in our bodies at that moment because I was still in my 50s, and it was like, and it felt, it was different performatively, like you said, Megan. It feels so different perform in my 50s, and the economy of that, and but then the economy, it's almost like it's almost like I call I. I I thought about it as I curated my body to give you only what you need to put to to do do this thing because it was special because it was a different it was about connecting in a different way, and we and I just remembered that just triggered so many things for me and I was like okay, I'm in, I'm in. Let's do this. Let's like let's go. I felt trusted. So, talk about the first time. Like, what was what was the impetus for wanting to do the fringe? I I always wanted to ask this question. Like, what? That's something. It was major and crazy. Talk about that. I was like, "That's crazy. I was like,

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  15:44

"Yeah, I think you know it goes back to the beginning of our collaborations together, Megan and I. We met in 2013, and we did much better at the dates than me. When was our first fringe?

Megan Flynn  15:59

2014,

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  16:00

2014. Really, and so basically, we were working together. We were college professors. We were teaching dance, and we wanted to make things. We were both like creators and innovators, and we had things that we wanted to put together. And we kind of realized that we had some similar themes in our life. Which, through the past several years of working together, we have many, many more themes that we've discovered that are similar. But yeah, so we were just like, what if we, what if we put together a little show for the Fringe and for in Philadelphia? And so, I mean, do you remember any more details on that to why we like chose to

Megan Flynn  16:41

do? No, I think I was just like desperate to make something, and I was new to Philadelphia, and I was like, "Well, if we did a shared show, I think this is something we could do together. We could definitely put like an hour-long program together if we shared our work. And so, sort of like a mixed bill was our initial idea, and yeah, I think we pulled together some new pieces, some old pieces, and the show was not your mother's moth. This idea of like storytelling through the body, and that was sort of the our first foray into this like dance theater work.

Rodney Veal  17:12

Oh yes,

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  17:13

yeah. I feel it's important to add, Rodney, that when she approached me about this, it was like five days before it was due, and that that pattern, like the way we work, that has continued for all of these years. Everything, the best creativity has happened for us in like the moments before. It was literally like the the application was due like in a couple of hours, and we still didn't have a title. And we're sitting with a big piece of paper, writing down every word we could pick up, trying to put together a title for this show, and then that process, I think, was like, you know, it was like our first like moment of being like, oh my goodness, we can do this well, like we can collaborate on this. And an interesting thing, I just want to piggyback on something Megan was saying about like finding a body that doesn't need the virtuosity to be able to like really present. I have sort of like the reverse of that because I never had this virtuosic training, and so I came to I come to dance with making lots of things that are gestural and small and in the body and very intimate, and so working with Megan over all these years has like really inspired me to actually find some virtuosic movement and to do things like turn. And so it's been like a really interesting way that we've been able to influence each other, and I think every time people every time people see us perform, they always say you move so differently, but it works. And so I think there's something about like to your point about why fringe. You know, I think that there's something about that that that the fringes the fringes, and I definitely have always felt like on the fringes, and in a way that I love and embrace. And just in my life, I've always been a person on the fringes. And I and I love I love the fringe of life, and I love finding those spaces where the people are that are like different than me and interesting and have stories. And so I I do feel like it's somewhat metaphorical to just how we are in the world that like the fringe kind of called us you know it's like this is the thing that's like we want to make something that's different than what's you know happening and we're gonna make a shared bill and and from there yeah we we were like a couple years went by lots of life happened and we're like we need another fringe show that was really fun, and then interesting that you are. We're so honored to be asked. I was terrified to ask you.

Rodney Veal  19:46

What Dennis the part is killing me. By the way, that you like. Why I was like, oh, oh, I was all in. I was like, I was in a car going. I've been asked to dance. I was like, "Oh my god!

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  20:02

Well, is it okay if I talk about the work a little? Is that talk about it because it

Rodney Veal  20:07

was it was a it was a it's a it's an incredible piece, and I can't wait to dive back in. I feel like it's a piece to kind of touch base on as I keep getting older and older, especially after the experience of the past year. But go,

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  20:22

yeah. So these it was it was actually originally created for not your mother's moth for the 2013 show in Philadelphia, and I created it with performance artist Adam Kerbal, who is still working in Philadelphia, and we basically had a whole summer, and it was interesting when I connected with him about it. Somebody suggested he might be interested in the process, and so we met for coffee. And I had proposed this whole idea, and then he said, and then like halfway through the conversation, I just completely did like a like a full on you know 180, and I said, wait a minute, that's not the piece I want to make with you. I want to make a piece about Alzheimer's disease. And when I said that to him, he said to me, "My grandmother is also going through Alzheimer's disease. And so I was at the beginning there. My mother had been diagnosed, and I was working that through in my body and and what that was. And I really needed a place to put a lot of the things that I was experiencing, and so Adam and I created what was like a 13-minute work that is called "It's Not So Far Once You've Been There, and it was a piece that I could that we made and we did, and I've never been able to let it go. It's it's a piece that lives at home. It lives rent free at home in my body, and I I need it. And so, when we were talking about doing the next Fringe show, I said to Megan, I need to do this piece again, but I have to find someone who I can do this with. And I had done it a couple other times, different versions of it. I've played with it. I've deconstructed it, reconstructed it, and I knew that for this version, you know, I was 10 years older, my life was very different, and my mom was like at the very end of her life, and we'd been through a decade of the disease. Things felt differently, and I wanted to work with someone who was older than me, as somebody with life experience, somebody that was very grounded, and but most specifically, I wanted to work with you because of your generosity. And when I was in the room with you, we were teaching together, and I saw you with the students, and I saw you in the room, and I just knew that you had you could give to it what the piece needed, and I felt that we had good chemistry in that way, and so I was so nervous to ask you because I so badly wanted you to say yes, and if you didn't say yes, I didn't know what I was going to do.

Rodney Veal  22:55

I am so glad I said. I cannot believe. I I mean, you know. Oh, you just was very kind, and but it was just like I just don't, I just never, I just thought it was over, like I was like over and done, like it was like, well, let me create on others, but I never thought about I can still create within my body and collaborate with others. I just didn't think that was still a possibility. I mean, you don't think that's a possibility. Someone brings it up to you, you you walk away going, this could work. This it's it can happen.

Promo  23:25

I'm Bonnie Miles, membership coordinator of CET. Thank you for listening to Rodney Veals Inspired by this podcast. is a production of CET and Think TV, two local PBS stations. As PBS stations, the work we do online, on air, and in the community is supported by listeners like you. If you're enjoying the show and would like to support our work, please consider becoming a member at cetconnect.org or thinktv.org. Plus, when you sign up to donate at least $5 a month, you'll get access to special members-only streaming videos on the PBS app through Passport. Learn more@cetconnect.org or thinktv.org.

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  24:06

If you're enjoying this conversation, the art show, also hosted by Rodney Veal, is available to stream anytime from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app.

Rodney Veal  24:14

And I remember it was because of because of the story, because of it's so personal, and and I know the both of you really dig into personal stories. It's you have to have a layer of trust with the people you collaborate in in that regard because it's and for a reason because it's not just for the sake of the artist for the sake of you as as the human being that's involved because it is a part of your your life's journey, and I understood that. I understood that assignment. I, I mean, I think I was, I think I was taking care of an elderly neighbor across the street from me, who is is in now an assisted facility care, with you know the dementia has. Started and it is Alzheimer's and just really taking its root now, and I just know that there were these. I couldn't imagine not having family members. It was it was a look for me. It looked like they don't know that you're there for them, and it was just but you are there for them, and this fact that you turned it into a work of art that hit a lot of people really emotionally. I I felt honored to be a part of that show because it matters, and that's how art matters. That's how dance matters. And I always people always talk about like contemporary dance. Like I don't get it. I'm like it's not about getting, it's about receiving. You got to be open, and it may take you down emotional journeys and intellectual thought processes, but you got to be open to it. And so, you know, it was it was it was a wonderful gift. The start of a beautiful friendship, like the start of Casablanca. So I'm Because because that's how I met Megan, like that's how we met, and I was like, we just hit it off. It was crazy. I remember

Megan Flynn  26:11

like showing up to that studio. It was like the week before our show was opening in Cincinnati. My first time coming to Cincinnati. My first time meeting you, and I had only we'd only ever like met on Zoom, and so like I walked in the studio and I was like, okay, here we go. I'm gonna meet Rodney. This, you know, Teresa's been talking about Rodney, and then I think we did like an improv together. Yeah, like we were like improvising, and I was like, oh wait a minute, this is magic. And I was just like, my like it was like our bodies were like connecting, and I was like, "Oh, I think I know this person. Like, we can do the show now. Show we can

Rodney Veal  26:44

show now. It was

Megan Flynn  26:45

like it was something that like swished in me, and I was like, 'Oh, this is gonna be great.

Rodney Veal  26:50

Oh, you you triggered something to me, and I was like, afterwards in the car ride home, I was like, 'Oh yeah! I couldn't wait to write it on my journal and start thinking about, well, what if I start to? It it was such a it was like it lit a spark, and like and the whole show was, I love the fact that you you you brought me in touch with such great other collaborators as well, and that and that and the sense of collaboration was so it's so strong with the two of you, and I and I love the fact that we started there, and then we did the next fringe show, I and it's like the I missed one.

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  27:28

Yes,

Rodney Veal  27:29

no, I missed two. It was like you've been you guys have been so you kind of and you and you sort you know life in many ways you make it like you were not in this in the Cincinnati region now you're in Cincinnati, you remember? I remember because you went to Zoom. You says, "Well, coming to Cincinnati. Remember that? I remember that Zoom.

Megan Flynn  27:51

After two years of like creating in the Cincy Fringe Festival and coming out like in the summer and spending time with you all, like I was like, I really like this area. There's so much support for the arts, and yeah, when I moved here in the fall of 2024, I wasn't really expecting it to be a long-term thing, but I just wanted to be like closer to community and and the art making connections that we were forming. I was just like, there's something happening here, and I wanted to be situating myself closer to this area, and so just like yeah, I was not expected, but what a what a delight!

Rodney Veal  28:25

What is like, and you know, the thing is, you know, watching you kind of like like just take root and just and just not just be rooted, but then also expanding. I mean, you're working with Dayton Dance Initiative and choreographing and dancing and working with Teresa, and and just it's just I don't think people under fully understand how fertile this I call it the Mesopotamia of culture is in and I love how my phone goes off I should have turned my phone off like dang nabit I was like what am I gonna learn I should know better than that. Better than that, but the like this area of it is like literally the cultural Mesopotamia is crazy. I don't because you're not from here, and you and it until you it's just like you're just stuff is happening.

Megan Flynn  29:17

Well, yeah, I mean like even with like Dayton Dance Initiative, I know Jennifer Sider because we danced together in New York City, and when I was directing the dance program at Union College, I had brought Dayton Contemporary Dance Company to the college to work with our students, and so like I kind of felt like this like unusual pull towards this part of Ohio, and then like meeting you and like all these other connections, and you feel like it's just been really, really fertile is a great word for it. It just like feels like there's just so much possibility.

Rodney Veal  29:49

You know, and it's just and you know, and I think it's it's it's it's it's a thing I you know like because I I was always talking when I'm talking to podcasts to other folks and. The artist, it's like young people and and older people. Like it doesn't matter generationally. Doesn't matter what age you are. This area is open for business. You know, it absolutely, absolutely, absolutely is. And it's just really kind of like it's like it's hard to explain to people from the outside, but when you're here, it's like it's just like let's do things. And then last year, which what I loved is the fact that the last iteration of Fringe, you guys did something completely different, which was which was such a delight, like, and it scared the crap out of you. You got to talk about the French show because it was because we never talked about it. We talked about it like right after the show, and I loved it. And I really was like rooting, and it was rich. And and as and it was like, oh, please keep going, do it again, another iteration of it. But talk about that show. What was scary about that show for you, for the both of you? Audience doesn't know. The whole thing was

Megan Flynn  31:07

we were we were approaching our fourth application, and one was like you know towards the end, the last minute, like are we going to do this? Are we going to put a show in? And we met with a producer of the Cincinnati French vessel Katie Hartman, and her advice to us was do something that scares you. Like, what's something that scares you, and just lean into that. And that concept of like what something that scares us would be talking on stage. Neither of us had ever like performed anything that had like a monolog or where we had to use our voices on stage, and so that was like the initial premise was like, okay, Teresa, let's do this. Let's talk on stage. Talk on stage? Question mark. Like, would we actually accomplish this feat? And then I know we were talking about this the other night. It's became like this metaphor for actually the things that we do on a regular basis that are hard and the ways that we approach it. Like, what's what's something that's a real like challenge or fear, and and how do we go about facing that fear on a daily basis? Like, what are the things that like push us and and and we take that risk and we're like wholeheartedly saying yes to something that we've never done before. So that was sort of like the initial premise of talk on stage.

Rodney Veal  32:24

Oh man, Teresa,

Megan Flynn  32:25

it it really I think it like it definitely feels like a turning point in my creative work, and I think something that was different with for this show is that it was just Teresa and myself. Just we had never done anything just the two of us, and I think that was also really important. That it was we were relying on each other, and not necessarily like we know we can work with other collaborators to make something. Oh, absolutely! But but something that's just like the two of us together.

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  32:55

Yeah, there are several things about that. Like a fringe show is typically 45 to 55 minutes, and we're not used to staying on stage that whole time. In our mixed bill shows, we usually have some backstage time, so that dawned on us in the process. Like, we're just out there. It's like, yeah, for a

Rodney Veal  33:17

long time. That is for a

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  33:19

long time. Yeah, but I think the process-it was so interesting because it's like anything. I don't know if you have this, but for anything that I don't want to do, I just avoid it, right? And it's like this scary thing of building the show. Like, why did we do this? Why do we get ourselves into this? Let's just do something that we know how to do. Like, what are we thinking? You know, and because life is going on, so this is a lot, you know. And so we decided to just like, I mean, the first question is like, what are we talking about? Like, what does anyone want to listen to? Like, what, you know, how do we do this? And so we just spent a lot of time collectively journaling. Like, we'd sit somewhere and we'd put on a timer for 12 or 15 minutes, and then we'd have a topic or a question for the other for each other to write, and we would just write for for 12 or 15 minutes, and then we would read them out loud to each other. And I think the practice of reading it was also like transformative because so much of journaling just sits with the self. But so then, like journal something and very vulnerably like share it out loud with another person immediately after writing it with no editing, was like gave us so much information about like what what maybe even was underneath what had been written down. You know, it's like that the surface writing could then make way for what is really coming out, and so then we just went back and looked at all of our prompts and we're like, all right, these are some things that we could do to put a show together, and yeah, so we kind of started the show with things that aren't too hard to do, and then we moved into like each having a 15 minute monolog, which was terrifying. Yeah, and then you know through the process of building the show and also kind of what we already know, we each kind of came to our own thesis for like, why is this so hard? Like, why is it hard to talk on stage? It's not really that hard. We're teachers; we talk in front of people all the time. It's like, but it's very different to deliver in this way, and why is it so hard? And my personal why was, you know, much of my work is about is about memory and forgetting and Alzheimer's disease and all these things and what's living in the body and what's unable to come out because we lose speech and all that stuff. And my personal why is it so hard? Is that I just want to prove to myself that I can that I have my memory. I still have my memory, and I'm holding on to that, and I'm doing everything I can to fight to keep it for as long as I can. And so that was what I came to. I didn't know that going in that that's really what's behind it for me, right? But I think what was really behind the fear of it was if I forget, then like if I if I'm standing up there to deliver a monolog and I totally forget how can I move forward in my life, that feels like for me, right? That's my deepest fear, and that's like, and it's so I I I never talk because as a dancer, I'm an improviser. We're improvisers. We forget something. We just make it up. We just keep going. We do a new thing. Yeah.

Rodney Veal  36:20

Well, that happened. Moving on. Yeah, that was that was always in it. Well, moving on. Moving on.

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  36:26

Yeah, but I don't feel that kind of freedom, you know, in speaking or delivering something that I do as a mover because I don't have the practice in that way. So wow.

Rodney Veal  36:36

So just it just and I go go go go go. I'm just there. No, I think

Megan Flynn  36:43

I think it's so true. Like I think kind of what we were talking about earlier. Like for me, it was this my fear was sharing stories, like actually using words to describe experiences that I've only ever choreographed works about. So sort of this idea that like I was trusting and believing that like my body that was enough to tell my stories, and I, I kind of like, in a way, hid behind the idea that my body that was enough, that my dancing could be the way, the only way I needed to express myself, and then through the process of making talk on stage with Teresa, was realizing like, oh, actually, I need to give voice, to give words, to give something another layer to to who I am as an artist, and that came through the voice, and to share stories about my own cancer journey that I had never actually publicly talked about. So to be able to like say something to an audience that I thought was enough in a dance, and realizing, oh no, actually I feel even more seen when I'm when the whole thing comes together. That my whole self is present to an audience, and not just again like the version that I want the audience to see.

Rodney Veal  37:52

Yeah, because it's you know it's we we have the tools. It goes back to like William Forsythe and Soul Notion. We always have these tools, and our our body is our tool, right? But then we just you start what what I was like when as an audience member, I got oh my god! They just added another tool to their tool belt. It was great to see. It was great to experience and witness as a creator and also as a collaborator and a friend. I was like, yes, okay, more tools to the tool belt, and I was all excited, and I made it was like I made that I was like I'm making this drive. We're gonna go see this thing. And what I loved about I loved about the fact that with the two of you is the work is so personal about your journeys, but it is also people have immediate connection to the two of you because they may not know that's a part of your personal journey, but they sense it. There's a it's a sensation that comes from folks of wanting to be in the space when the output from the two of you occurs. We had a great experience this past spring where we went into an art gallery at Dana Wiley's art gallery at Dayton, and the three of us just kind of danced. I don't even. I love. I I don't even know. And Lori Park was the artist, and she was. She's such a folks. I've had her on the podcast, and and I screwed up her last name. This is why I'm really horrible. I I have to tell full disclosure. I called her Lori Parks in the podcast, and I'm like, and a couple times it's Lori Park, and I'm like, Rodney, I love Lori to death, and I was like, I I carry around that shame. I've carried it around, and I manifest like universe, forgive me. But that aside, the fact that we we I love the fact that I have to describe this to the audience that when the three of us walked into the space, it was off to the races with these two. As it was like, as soon as they were in the room, like I want to do this, what if this? It was like I was like, oh my god, this is what I live for. We just kind of went to town and turned our spaces in the. What because we started off as three solos and then it kind of merged into this kind of free flowing in and out of solos into group. Okay, that's only the three of us. Only the two of you can do get me to do and and it's like is that how is that sad? It has to be oh that was so fun to do to break out of it being this thing, and I know we're going to try to do it again. I know, I know this. I already know this. Just letting you know. After the podcast, we're going to talk about this. We're going to do another show. But what was it like to be in that stage? Because I've never asked the question of like, what what was it like to do this? Because the audience, the set of full setup, the audience is so close to us. It was very intimate. What was like? What did that feel like for you guys? I knew it felt like for me, but

Megan Flynn  40:53

I, I mean, like I love working in like different venues and like showing up and working in a gallery. Like so, that's something like I was yes immediately, but I think more so getting to work with you and with Teresa, and like I think because the medium was art, visual art, and knowing that that was like I felt like I was closer to you, Rodney, because that's also a very important medium for you. So there's something about like playing and responding and exploring, but being in a in a place that felt like the proximity felt closer to the work that you are involved

Rodney Veal  41:30

in

Megan Flynn  41:31

as a visual artist and a movement artist. Like I don't know, there's just something like I was ready for the possibility of it. Like and Lori's work is so sculptural and so interesting that like I knew that that would be fun to respond to, but I think more so like knowing that your studio was in the same building that we were like there was something that felt I felt like a oh I'm in I'm near Rodney now like Rodney's been coming to Cincinnati and doing work with us and now we get to go to Dayton and play with Rodney on Rodney's like there was something that for me was really fun.

Rodney Veal  42:04

It's like playtime with Rodney is always funny. Yeah, and it is such playtime. And I do, and and I I people are still talking about that show. By the way, like yeah, they're like, oh, when are they coming back? When are you guys gonna do something else? Like guys, you know we got to find the right moment in time, but yes and yes, you know it will happen and occur just because of that. And so, how I mean, it playtime is such an essential part of the creative process. I know for me, and I think it's for both of you as well, because playtime is exploration, and and I'm kind of curious, like, what would you say to people, especially in the audience, who may not think that they can explore in these different ways? You you guys are prime examples of taking risk and going for it, and it pays off in spades. Yeah.

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  42:58

Oh, yeah. I think it's interesting because that particular show happened on the day after my father was had moved from a month-long hospital stay, and during his hospital stay, I had to move his home. And so on that Saturday, I moved his home, and on that Sunday, we did the show. And so it's like diving into that right out of the month of what had been what you can imagine, and I just I literally felt the importance of your question of the play, and like then we're and like Megan was saying, like we're we're here in Rodney's studio and in my

Rodney Veal  43:43

world, my little

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  43:45

world, and Lori's work is like so, yeah, it's so like mystical and magical, and like invites like all of this dream world, and I I kind of sometimes imagine myself like there's like this this point that you have to sort of push yourself through to get into the play. Like when you're in extreme stress situations, it's hard to convince a brain that it's the time is to play and the time is to relax and the time is to have a good time. But if you can sort of just push into that, and for me, like I was saying earlier, that's getting the body involved. Just stand on the wall with the sculptures and see what is in the body, because I'm not going to be able to brain through how to dance this mystical world. I'm going to have to feel it out, and you know, just like the value of that experience, I think was a huge part in my own healing from what I had just been through to have that this opportunity. And I think you know, you you had this like the fabric and the skirt, and you wanted to wear that skirt, and you were like, "I'm making this about this skirt, and like that really informed the costume choices that we made. And yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, like there's this whole feeling of like flow and water and universe, and it just was like furthering my like phantom. Fantasmic, you know, idea that I was living in inside of lori's work, and yeah, I think it's hard. It's hard to like trust the body in the hard things of life, but I think the body is is carrying the way forward, and I think that moment together that we had was so satisfying in that way, and yeah, kind of. And I think that's the thing about dance, which is complicated about the art form, is that it is fleeting. It doesn't ever stay. We'll never do that again, right? Because we'll never walk into that room with those experiences in that moment. We can dance with Lori's work, but we would do something different because we respond from our current situation. Right, our life, our lives.

Rodney Veal  45:52

Yeah,

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  45:53

yeah, it's amazing.

Rodney Veal  45:56

It's just there's something. Yeah, I, I'm, I, I always talk about like the blessing of of friendship that that the two of you have given me. I get emotional, Shea. You know, it's just no. I mean, it's that's the power of what we do as artists and creators, and I want us-I want the audience to understand and be a part of this. This is why it's important to go see performances that are not always in traditional spaces. Why it's take a risk and go see something different. It-it is made from a place that could really kind of transform your own lives, and like you talked about, Teresa, about the things it was-it's heavy. It was heavy, like the heavy burden, the burden of of caretaking, of having to be responsible, and this is dealing with something is the mortality and dealing with health and decline. But then you're wearing this beautiful dress, cool colors, and we're we're all playing in the space for, and that that fleeting moment to let that dissipate for a moment to then kind of process it. That's what that's what this art that's what art does, and that the the two of you are the to me, I think that Cincinnati is lucky to have you, because I would try to find a place to hire you up in Dayton and just keep you all to myself, because that's how I feel. And so it's like, yeah, no, they're ours. But Cincinnati should be-it's. I think you guys are ready to and are doing some of the most important work that's out there. So

Teresa VanDenend Sorge  47:45

thank you, thank you. A lot

Rodney Veal  47:46

of love. So folks, whenever you see Megan and Teresa's name attached to anything that's happening down in Cincinnati, run. Do not Costco. You actually, you actually might see me up as a part of it because I'm still in the world of movies. Oh yeah, and that's and we're going to talk about that afterwards. But I'm so glad I had the two of you on there to just talk about dance and your lives because you're just two special people. So thank you.

Megan Flynn  48:12

Thank you, Rodney. We adore you. Thank you so much.