Miles of Opportunity: Chris Jones on Training the Next Generation of Drivers at Gateway Technical College

In this inspiring episode of Next Gen Talks, Lindsey Trent interviews Chris Jones, a commercial driving instructor at Gateway Technical College. Chris shares his powerful journey from facing homelessness to building a successful trucking business and now training the next generation of drivers. He discusses Gateway’s nine-week CDL program, the importance of patience and empathy in teaching, and why reaching young people—especially high schoolers—is vital to the industry's future. With over a million miles on the road and experience across all 48 states, Chris brings practical wisdom, deep passion, and a commitment to shaping safe, skilled drivers in a changing transportation landscape.

https://www.gtc.edu/programs-study
jonesg@gtc.edu

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Transcript

Before we hit the road on today's discussion, I want to take a moment to express our heartfelt gratitude to our sponsors. So thank you for some next gen trucking advocates. And those are cook companies, Louisville Paving, tenth Street Transfer, Trimble and Usher Transport. Without your support, we couldn't do what we do day in and day out. So thank you to our sponsors. Hey, this is Lindsay Trent with next gen talks. And I am really excited to have on the show today Chris Jones from Gateway Technical College. And they are an amazing community college out of Wisconsin that's doing training for commercial driving. And we're going to talk to Chris today about his story and what he likes about bringing in the next generation of professional truck drivers. So, Chris, welcome to the show.

 Thank you, Lindsey. I'm really happy to be here. I appreciate you having me.

 Tell me about yourself and how you got into the trucking industry. Like, how'd you get here?

 Yeah. So. Wow. I've been in the trucking industry now for close to 13 years. You know, when I first started off, it was really just a means of me. Well, one, I wanted to get a job that was going to pay me a little bit more than I was making. And then, I mean, honestly, I was just trying to find somewhere to, you know, sleep, because at the time I was going through a lot. I was actually homeless. So I was trying to figure out, you know, how I could make some money and have a reliable place to sleep. And I knew, you know, after I did some research, that trucking could possibly be that solution for me going over the road. You know, I'm being able to sleep in my. My truck all the time. But, yeah, started with that. Went into a few companies early on. Got a lot of experience driving over the road. I've seen a lot of states. Actually. I've seen every state at least twice.

 Really?

 Yeah.

 Even Alaska?

 Well, domestically.

 Okay. Okay. So all lower 48, which is.

 Right. Right. I haven't seen Puerto Rico or. Okay. Anywhere we can drive to domestically. Yeah, I've been through at least twice and also over a little bit. Over a million miles, I believe, too.
 
 Great.

 Yeah, I surpassed that, I think, in 20, 22, 23. So that was nice. And, yeah, did that for good five or six years. And then after that, I got into doing it on my own. So that's when I got my own truck and wanted to become an owner operator, see how that worked out. Then I had my own company for about five and a half years as well. And eventually I branched that into actual fleet, where I maxed out at about six trucks.

 Awesome.

 Consistently over the road. So, yeah, man. Now I'm here teaching at Gateway, which is a great experience to be able to help others and see these young and older aspiring new truck drivers come out here and contribute to, you know, distribution and the freight industry, because it's a. It's a great industry to be in if, you know, you take care of your license and everything. So.
 
 And you're. I mean, you're fairly young, right? You're really kind of that next generation of driver instructor. What made you want to be a driver instructor from being a truck driver, owner, operator, and owning your own fleet?

 Well, honestly, I think one of the main things was me just being able to travel and drive and make money and kind of, you know, see. See the, you know, see the country from a different perspective. I always like trucks, though. I don't know what it was. My mom told me that from the. A young age, my first toy was actually a Snyder truck. Oh, yeah? Yeah. It's wild. I've never even driven for Schneider before, but, yeah, that was my first toy. And from there, I think I kind of just. And probably had it in my subconscious mind or something. But, yeah, I grew into getting into it a little bit more deeper and just exploring the opportunity that I had, and things kind of lined up that way, too, once I got rolling. I didn't. I never expected I would be an instructor or. Or owner operator. Like, when I first got into trucking, mainly my whole thing was the let me get somewhere where I can be secure with my job and everything like that, and I'll just see where this goes and stick with this, you know. And as time went on, I just started, you know, doing more research and looking into the industry a lot more, and that's pretty much how I got into that.

 What do you like about being a driver instructor?

 I think the main thing is I'm able to. I'm able to see and grow, you know, being able to see where they are and then where they end, and then just seeing the work that they put in and the effort, it actually inspires me more and, you know, makes me want to, you know, not let them down, especially when you see them, you know, working really hard. So I think that's the best thing for me, just seeing the growth and knowing, like, wow, you know, you guys are gonna. You're gonna really, really enjoy this finish line when you get there. But then when you get there, you're gonna see it's still a whole lot more to Go, you know, after they graduate.

 So yeah, tell me a little bit about your program. How long is it and what, what kind of things do your graduates do? What do they go on to?

 Yes, our program is nine weeks, nine and a half roughly.

 We college credit when they are done with it.

 Yes, they do. Because we're a technical college. They're able to actually graduate with the technical diploma and CDL truck driving. And then as well they get their actual completion certificate to show that they completed a truck driving program with the EODT guidelines. But yeah, they are na because they're getting a technical diploma. The three courses that's within our entire program is counted towards college credits. They get a total of 10 credits and so if they ever came back to college, they'll have those 10 credits to use towards whatever they want to do next.

That is fantastic. So nine weeks is a lot longer than your average truck driver program, which is oftentimes typically four weeks. What more do you all go over in your nine week program?
 
 Well, we start from the beginning with the overview of the just the anatomy of the truck. You know, we like to give the students an idea exactly what they're getting into so they don't just think of this as like, oh yeah, I'm just going to be sitting in this seat and driving. You know, because once you're a seat warmer, you're not thinking about everything else out there. You know, we kind of, you kind of lose, you know, focus eventually. It's just inevitable. But so we start off with showing them, you know, a deeper overview of the anatomy of a truck on the counter and the whole engineering side of behind the engine and you know, how air brakes work. We have an air brake board here, like a simulation board that kind of goes in depth and shows them everything, you know, how the air brakes work and how they look and why this button triggers this over here or whatever the case may be as far as the structure. And they're seeing this in different many forms. So from the air brakes, from the engine to the actual braking system, spring brakes, and then, you know, going all the way back to the trailer when we're coupling the airlines and everything. So we start there, want to give them an idea of what they're going to get into. And then from there, once they have this idea, that's when we start going into. Okay, this is why you have to check this. This is why you have to be proactive as far as pre tripping. Right. So we'll start off, you know, getting them a rhythm really where they have a mindset going into the rest of the program. Understanding the importance of pre tripping and post tripping and knowing why you have to do this consistently even when you don't feel like it because of the consequences and things that can happen if you don't. Right. So then after they get done with that and they have that rhythm, you know, then we kind of start teaching them the skills as far as, you know, how to become a good truck driver as far as driving, what to look for, how to always stay alert, you know, always checking the mirrors. And then, you know, obviously backing understand, you know, that every backing situation is going to be different. You know, I try to, you know, tell the students, you know, I can give you, you know, things that you have to do and things that you have to keep in mind when it comes to backing up. But there is really no black and white foundation for backing this. Just things that you just tell them, just that they can be aware of. Because backing is more so of a feel. You know, it's one of those things where you do multiples, multiple times. You know, if someone's, you know, backing up a boat, you know, from their pickup truck or something like that by the dock, they may have a better understanding than someone that doesn't do that. And they'll, they'll, they'll know. Yeah, it's not really much you can say because the turning radius is different from a boat, from a 53 foot trailer. It's just about a feel. So once they get the repetition with that, then they, they understand, okay, this is how this goes and everything starts to, you know, happen for them and in sync to what everything else is going on around them as a, as a new student.

 Yeah, I mean it really is a skill. I tried backing on a driver simulator and it is hard work. It gives you so much respect for drivers out there and the skill that they have to, to be able to back in and even small places. It's just incredible. And you all have a simulator or two, right? And do you utilize those?

 Yeah, yeah, we have a simulator currently. We actually want to add a couple more just based on the size increase of the class as well as just different ideas that we have with the simulator. Not just being used for, you know, just kind of practicing and being almost a crash test on me for their, their manual shifting so they don't tear up the trucks when they get out there, but just put them in different scenarios simulators. I can really do a great job simulating realistic scenarios on the road. You Know, skidding and things like that. That's really important, you know, because it's coming black ice and all of that stuff is.

 It'S better to learn it in a controlled environment as opposed to actually out there. I was meeting with a company out in Colorado and they asked me, do you know of, can driver simulators simulate the mountains? And I said yes, it's exactly. What it's there for is to give those real world scenarios, but in a controlled environment. What do your students think about the simulator?

 Oh, they love it. They, you know, some of the, especially the young ones, they, you know, they treat it like a video game, you know, and so they get in there okay and then they get competitive. It's not as easy as I thought. Yeah, you know, and yeah, they, they really enjoy it. I think for the principle of what it provides. I think it's beautiful, you know, but there's nothing. It's not going to be, you're going to be hard pressed to find something that's going to really do a almost perfect job of simulating the actual truck in, in the work world. And I think they kind of see that too when they get out there. The simulator, I feel like is just great for them understanding what to do in a certain situation, how to react, counter steering and things like that when it comes to, you know, brake skidding or hydroplaning and things like that. But yeah, if they, if they have the fundamentals down, at least when they get in the truck, if they have a different feel, at least they'll understand. Okay. This is actually not the same all the way, but I understand where it's going. You know, they, they can, you know, slide into that rhythm a bit, a bit smoother. So that's really all you want? Yeah.

 Right. Well, okay. So you said the younger people like the simulators. Tell me what you're doing with younger people in training. Are you training some 18 year olds or are you going into high schools? What are you doing to reach the next generation?

 Oh, for sure. Yeah. That's actually one of my, that's on my checklist as far as goals is what I want to do to fill out while I'm here. A gateway targeting the high schools and the younger generation because they are going to be out there next, you know, so as next gen, but they're going to be there next. And because of that, you want to make sure that you did your part to kind of show them what's going on out there. So you know, you're leading them in the right Direction because the trucking industry expands so fast, so many people getting their CDLs and getting hired. And if you got a bunch of, you know, younger teenagers coming out of. Straight out of high school and everything like this, you know, well, that's probably going to fill up pretty quickly. So you, you want to make sure that you're doing your part. But we have a pretty decent turnout when it comes to teenagers, actually. We. I want to, I want to be a bit more, though, because right now we're sitting at about. Typically our classes have 35, 40 at the most percent of teenagers. But I want to get it to the point where it's 60, you know, and I know that, okay, I'm doing good in the community if I can be able to get these high schools here, you know, get these, get these teenagers on board.

 Absolutely. When you were that age at 18, did you think ever in your life that you would have gone to all 48 states twice?

 No way.

 And, and what does it feel like to say that you've been to 48 states twice?

 You know, it's. Sometimes it's, it's. It's hard to. Almost hard for me to believe myself because I'm. You know, when you're out there on the road for so long, everything is a blur. Sometimes you just go through a state, you may stop in a few places to see what's going on, but. And then you're gone the next day. So me knowing, like, wow, I have been to this state twice. You go back and you think, like, have I driven through here? Yeah, I have, actually, and I've stopped here at this Walmart or something, you know, in this small town. But yeah, it's. It's nice, though. It's nice to know that I, I did experience that. But yeah, it's also like, wow, you know, I'm right there in the middle, though.

 Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. But it's also. I feel like it's a great opportunity for a younger person to be able to get to experience the country and be out on the road and, and have a great job doing it, right?

 Oh, for sure. Yes. Oh, yeah. It's a great, It's a great experience. I think everyone needs to experience that. That's the first time I've ever seen mountains. I've never outside of the city ever in my life until I started driving trucks and I seen mountains for the first time. I had to stop and just look for at least 15 minutes, like, wow.
 
 Before, you know, because the TV probably doesn't do it justice, right? And then you see it in real.
 
 Life and you're like, no, yeah, it's surreal. And, and any way of not just being in a truck, but even just being in the presence of them. If you see him like in the background, but obviously in a truck, you're going through those, those downgrades. Obviously it's 6%. It's like, whoa, you know, very, very, very steep downgrade here, you know, so. And honestly, when you're going down those type of downgrades, you can't really enjoy the mountains the way you want because you gotta pay, you know, so you don't roll off the road. But yeah, yeah, it's a cool experience though, for sure.

 What would you tell a young person about if, if they should become a truck driver and why they should become a truck driver?

 Well, for one, having a CDL license, especially if you are pretty responsible driver, is something that you can always come back to whenever you want, you know, so that's a good thing to know that you have some type of income whenever you need, because you never know how life's gonna, you know, direct you. Right. But also, you know, I think that because everything comes from a truck, like literally everything we look at that, that gives me a lot of confidence to say that, you know, trucking is going to be here for a while. So it's one of those things where it's like you don't have a, A, I don't know, a, A meter of regret really, to scale with this if you do it. Because even if you end up the field, it doesn't take anything away from you. I mean, you may lose some time, I guess, from being in school, but you gain something on the other end that you can use whenever you like. And because the freight industry is so massive, billions of dollars. It's just something that's like, okay, I just got out of high school. My. Maybe my parents are really convincing me to go to college, but I don't really know what I want to study, you know, I don't know what I want to do. I'm just. This is all new to me. You can take that and just say, instead of saying, okay, I just go to college to study psychology because I see all my friends doing it or something. It seems like a common major to take to study. You can just go to a technical college and take truck driving. It's only nine weeks, you know, and you're out of there and you have a CDL and you can either use it or not use it. But at least you know, you have it and it can give you some pretty good income. You know, a lot of the companies that come and visit our school, that talk to us, our students, I mean, are starting their new drivers off at 70k. So 70k in a 19 year old's pocket. 21 year old's pocket is quite a lot of money, at least in my, my eyes, my opinion. I think so. But yeah, it's just something that's, you know, you can't really pass up if you get the opportunity to do it. So I would, I will let them know that. Especially if they don't really know where they want to go, you know, but they know they have to go to school or get some type of form of education and something, certification, whatever. I would, I would let them know, look, the freight industry isn't going anywhere. It's going to be here for a long time because everything gets delivered from a truck. So you can contribute to that.

 I know. And you're in Wisconsin. I met a young man last year, 19 years old in, and he was hauling milk in Wisconsin and he was working hard, but he made six figures.

 Yeah, see, there you go.

 Can you imagine at that age?

 Wow.

 I mean, I just, it's, I mean, and you're working, right? But you can also be saving up money and buying a new car, a house, a boat, a motorcycle, whatever. The world is your oyster.

 Yes.

 As opposed to going to college, getting student loan debt, majoring in psychology and graduating, making 45,000 a year, which is pretty average for somebody that has a liberal arts degree is what they're gonna be.
 
 Yeah. And you're weigh the, you know, weigh the time, you know, for four weeks, I'm sorry, nine weeks to, you know, almost four years to get a bachelor's. That's going to pay you half the amount of money that you would make as a truck driver.

 Yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible. Well, that's why we're on this mission. Well, and you and I. So you're a part of the national association of Publicly Funded Truck Driving Schools. And we talked about that and you went to their conference. Tell me what you think about the NAFTUS and the group and what you've gained from being a part of that group.

 Yeah, for sure. I, you know, I'm glad that Gateway could be a part of this organization that has a really, really great opportunity to shift things in this trucking education. Ever so changing world that we're living in with different laws coming out every day. Fmcsa creating ELDT and just all these different changes. NAFTUS actually keeps you on, you know, on, on par with stuff like that. Keeps you up to date and as well as, you know, they give you a lot of insight from other schools that are doing the same thing that you're doing every day. So it actually gives you an opportunity to improve or, you know, just connect with someone else to, you know, do some type of expansion or whatever you want to do. But I think the biggest value for me personally was is the networking. I really enjoy that the most. I think that they have a great structure when it comes to the conferences and getting all these schools and vendors and all these people there. I think that's good because there's no way I can meet, have these different resources that I'm, I like to use for my program without that, you know, unless, I don't know, Google Search is just helping me out a lot. But you know, that's still, it's still that it still wouldn't be meeting someone in person and getting to interact with them, you know, at a conference. You get to see them and have a, you know, have a conversation face to face. It, it's different that way. Before you, you know, purchase a service or something like that, you get to meet someone and, you know, kind of get a feel for them. I think that's, that's priceless, you know, so that's one of the best values I have for sure from that. But yeah, I like the conference though. The national conference was fun down in Florida. We had some rain and things like that. That was kind of new to me as far as seeing that type of powerful. We don't look like a mini hurricane at one point, but. Oh, really?

 You're like, wait, are we supposed to have a hurricane here? What's going on? Well, so what would you say are the qualities that you need to be a successful driver trainer?

 Well, number one, you gotta have patience. If you don't have patience, even if you got half the patience that someone that has patience has, it's not enough. You got to have a hundred percent. If you don't have 100, then it's just not gonna work. Inevitable. That's just gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna flop because this is, this is just where you are. You're in a, you're in a work field where people don't know what to do, you know, and they're learning from you and everything's moving so fast. They're out there, they're trying to make A decision one. You know, they're multitasking. Ultimately, they're in a truck shifting while looking in the mirrors, trying to keep the trailer track from hitting the curb and then trying to go to speed limit. You know, it's a lot going on. So understanding that perspective, having some empathy, I think you only can do that with patience. So I think you got to have a lot of patience. I think that's a big, big quality, very important one to have. And then also, I think you have to be willing to know that you don't know everything. You have to know that you have to approach this with the knowledge you have and execute things that you see to give that to the students. But also you have to know that you have to learn yourself, because every day things are going to be different. It's. If you have, you know, a decade of experience and you are driving all the time, you know, you may have seen a lot more than likely, right? But if we have a person over here that has a decade of experience that has driven all over the country, you know, seeing all the lower 48 states, and then we have another person over here who has 15 years experience, but they've only driven from, you know, Kenosha, Wisconsin, to Green Bay, Wisconsin, the entire 15 years, someone will say, well, he has more years than him, but he hasn't really seen much. Then this other person that's been through the mountains, you know, that's probably seen all types of weather, because Wisconsin, you know, they. They get four seasons, but they're not getting everything that, you know, somewhere like Florida or Alabama is getting, you know, or maybe even up in Maine, you know, maybe the blizzards are different there, I don't know. But it's just a different. Different perspective. So I think you have to be open to learn because you're gonna see new things with different students. Every student is different. So because every student is different, you're going to have a different experience. And there are going to be some things that, you know, that you can help them out on and save them a lot of time. And then there's going to be some things you just don't know. He's like, wow, I didn't actually know that. I'll keep that. And, you know, you use it for the next. The next person that needs it. And with that, I want to capitalize on that by saying, also, if you don't know something, it's okay to tell the students you don't know. I think a lot of instructors try to think that they have to look like they, yeah, I'm the big, the big instructor that can, that pretty much has seen everything, but it's okay to tell the student because if they see that you're vulnerable like that, they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll trust you more and that's what you want when they're following your instructions and they're sitting in that truck with you. And there's people's lives at stake. So I think that's a big thing, you know, patience, being open to learn and then, you know, being humble enough or you know, willing to say that you're, you know, not knowledgeable or something or. I didn't know that, but thank you. You know, I'll learn this today, but that's pretty much what I would start with for a good instructor. There's a lot of things, but those are some of the main things I think are just super important.
 
 Yeah. And you're really a next generation teacher. Right. And coming into the industry, you've got all this experience as an over the road driver and now you're investing in young people and in people who are older than you even. What is it like the different styles of training, young people versus older people?
 
 Oh, wow, that's a great question that I've actually had to come to a, almost a comparison if you will, as far as approach with the students because younger people, people would probably think off top that younger people are just not going to want to listen or you know, they're going to be like, oh yeah, whatever, you're old or whatever, something like that. You don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, possibly, maybe if they're talking about like social media or something.
 
 Yeah.

 But when it comes to trucking, from what I've seen, they actually are very open to listening. They, they, they listen more than some of the older students that I've had. Because a lot of older students, you know, they, they probably been doing something a certain way for the majority of their life. So it's almost like they, it's not that they don't want to listen, they just don't have the capacity for flexibility because it's, it's been so much of the same over and over again for years. Like for instance, let's say shifting. Some guys come in that are, you know, probably in their 60s, more than likely they probably had a car that was a manual before. Right. So they think, oh, I no shifting, this is nothing. I've been shifting in my Mustang, my 68 Mustang for five plus years. And they come in and they see this is not the same type of shifting. It's awesome that you understand that there is a concept to use a clutch while shifting at the same time, but we're not doing it the way that you do it in your car. Obviously most guys out there on the road when they shift, they most more than likely they float gears. Right. Which is not using the double clutch method of shifting now. But you, when you're in school and you have a state exam, you're getting tested on your double clutching ability. You're not getting tested on floating. So you can't teach the students to float. You have to teach them to shift by double clutching. Well, in a car you don't double clutch. So that throws them off and it actually takes them longer to pick up on that than maybe a younger person. So that's probably the, the pro of a younger student versus an older student when it comes to being able to adapt quicker because they're, they're, they're new to something. Like it's not going to be hard for a toddler probably to learn five languages versus someone that only knew English their whole life at 55. You know, because they're just coming in the world, they may think this is this, is this how it is? But I think the pro for an older student versus a younger student is the older students. They have wisdom and things that are not connected maybe with trucking, but just life and things that have to do with safety or just common sense things thinking ahead, understanding the importance of being proactive. Teenagers don't understand the importance of being proactive. Typically they're just, you know, they're just for the moment, whatever, I'll get on it later. Older people know, oh no, you gotta get on this like a week ago, you know, and they're, their approach to things in the class I see is a, is a lot different at 19 year old in the class. Now our quizzes that I give them were due yesterday or I'm sorry, they were due Thursday last week. And he literally did them all. The day of the day of the, of the quiz is being due 11 chapters and some of the older students, they got the stuff done like a week and a half before the due date. So those are some of the, you know, the differences between them. Different eras. So they learn different but at the same time they approach things differently too. So it's almost like it almost balances out in a way.

 Yeah.
 
 Yeah.

 Well, what do you think that the trucking industry could do better to support Programs like yours, new drivers into the industry. What is something that we could do better?
 
 I think this would be company and I know this has typically doesn't have anything to do with the companies because I have my own. So I know how it works behind the scenes. Typically has to do with insurance. But I think some of these companies should allow fresh students out of school to be more available to drive for them. It seems like it's a lot of one year, three year experience companies, you know, which I understand, I do. But I think there should be an evaluation process, something that you know, because every, every, every 19, 20 year old isn't the same, you know, or every 35 year old that just got his license isn't the same as another person that just got their license. I think that if not all, most companies should at least give fresh out of school students a shot. Because even though there are quite a few companies that do offer great pay as soon as you get into the industry and driving for them it's just like, wow, that's what I'm making. Fresh out of school. This is awesome. I think if there were a lot more and it was more consistent to the point where it's almost guaranteed, almost, I think we would see even more interest, you know, because some people don't want to get into this and they don't know that they can necessarily get this type of income or this type type of work life balance that certain truckers have. Now obviously when they get in, in beginning you want them to work for a lot of things, you're just not going to be handed anything. But I'm, I think I'm more so. Speaking of speaking on the. Just the opportunity of more companies being able to offer something that makes us a driver, not want to leave, you know, because a lot of companies have a lot of new drivers coming in when then they leave right away. You know, that's, that's a, that's a common thing in the industry. A lot of in and out, no one's really stand saying put anywhere. And I think that's one of the reasons why. So I think that would be nice if they would open it up a bit more. And yeah, I mean right now I think that's really all I can think of. I'm sure there's probably some more things, but at this moment that's really what came to mind.

 Yeah, I mean we preach that every day is to try to get younger people in the industry. We need to provide more opportunities and we also need to have those conversations with our insurance carrier, because people often think, oh, my insurance won't do it. But they haven't had the conversation. And it's not like you're going to have 100 new 18, 19, 20 year olds. It might be one. And like you said, they're not all created equally. It's one that this is what their passion is. They grew up with, with a Schneider truck as their first toy, and this is what they want to do. So why can't we give students like that the opportunity to have a great job and start their career? And sometimes it's just about having that conversation with your insurance. So I want to say, hey, go ahead and have that conversation and see if you can work with your insurance carrier to maybe have some spots for 18, 19, 20 year olds.

 Oh, for sure. Yeah, I think that's fair. You know, it doesn't totally like, cut them off because, oh, you don't have enough experience. It gives them an opportunity to show, hey, I'm very responsible, reliable. Look at my driving record. You know, you don't have any tickets. You know, you 30 years old, but you just got your CDL and you never had a speeding ticket. I think they deserve a shot, you know, instead of having to wait three years or, you know, someone that comes in and they're in their 40s or 50s, you know, they're ready to get somewhere and sit down with a company. They don't want to keep getting up and having to go back into the kitchen and find something else to eat. You know, they want to sit with that plate and let that be it for the night. You know what I mean? So I think that'd be awesome if they did like in a different type of personal evaluation. But I know it's just probably too much drivers to do that probably with. I mean, but you know, they, they have, they have, they have their ways. Technology is growing, you know, so there's, there's ways to do it. But I think that would, that would benefit the industry a whole lot. And, you know, it'll hold people more accountable too, when it comes to safety. And you know, who they're hiring, what's going on, because maybe the, maybe the checks would be a lot more thorough, you know, because they're looking at who they're bringing in because, you know, someone cannot have a license for a certain period of time. And it kind of just naturally makes you want to make sure that this person is good to go.

 Absolutely. Well, it's been a pleasure talking to you today and learning about Gateway and about your journey. How can people get in touch with you? How can they get in touch with Gateway?

 Yeah. So Gateway's website is gtc, as in Gateway Technical College. Just abbreviate the first letter of each word, edu. And on GTC edu, it'll bring up everything with the, the truck driving program. And they can get in touch with me from there. My, my, my name and email and everything is there. Or if they wanted to get in touch with me on social media. It's not quite ready yet because I just took over this program trying to get things rolling. But it will be ready soon and I don't know if they want it. They can email me from that website and I can shoot it to them. We can kind of go from there. But yeah.

 Well, we're really excited about you and your future and leading the way for Gateway and their program and hopefully all the programs in Wisconsin and just what you're going to do to grow the industry and grow young people into the industry. So thank you for what you do in training and being passionate about it. And hopefully we'll get to meet in person at NAP this soon, right?

 Yes, yes, hopefully. Yeah. The next one, the regional or national.

 That's right. That's right. Well, well, thanks for being on the show, Chris. And we'll put your contact information in the show notes.

 Thank you so much for having me, Lindsey. It was a pleasure.