Reaching for Excellence – Running an Amalfi Coast Luxury Boutique Hotel

In this podcast, we interview Estelle Vassallo, who is the General Manager of the Anantara Convento di Amalfi Grand Hotel in Italy.  Estelle answers our questions about crisis management in the hospitality field and about what it takes to become a GM.  

We ask Estelle to describe what it is like to manage a hotel in an iconic location like the Amalfi Coast and she explains what kind of clients the Anantara Convento di Amalfi Grand Hotel attracts.  We also discuss the selection and hiring process for a luxury hotel GM, gender equality in the Hospitality Industry and the increasing number of women who are filling GM positions.

We also discuss the importance of having a cool and calm demeanor in the face of crises such as terrorist attacks, union strikes or political instability and Estelle explains how she goes about managing these very difficult situations.  

Estelle Vassallo is a passionate hospitality leader with extensive background in all hotel areas, both on-property as well as regional. Being half-German, half-French, married to an Italian and having lived in 7 European countries, she considers herself a proud and multi-lingual European. She loves every aspect of the hotel life, especially team motivation and engagement, as well as delivering quality service to her guests, always keeping innovation and change as a priority. 

Estelle is very organized and has a strong orientation for results, with a lot of budgeting, forecasting and cost adjustment experience. Crisis management is one of her specialties, having had unfortunately to deal with many crises throughout her career, including various terrorist attacks, difficult union situations and strikes, and political instability.
 
In 2010, Estelle was the winner of Hospitality Career Award and she speaks five languages.
 
 
 
 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It is brought to you by Swift Hospitality Guild. The reference in training for hospitality professions and leading authority in hospitality training. SHG is renowned for its excellence in preparing professionals for the hospitality industry. Winning medals at prestigious competitions like Swift Skills, Ural Skills, World Skills, and the AICR World's Best Receptionist Contest. To learn more about SHT in this podcast, get in touch with Jideo Marcato, the founder of SHG, and the producer of this show by emailing welcome at SwissHospitality Guild.com. This is Crystal Cavan, your host. Today we are welcoming Estelle Vassalo. Welcome, Estelle. It's a pleasure to have you on our podcast today. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yes, hello, Crystal. It's a real pleasure to be on your great podcast, Fifty Shades of Hospitality. Thanks to you and the Gidio to invite me. Really excited for being here with you today. So, yeah, as you mentioned, I just moved to the beautiful Amalfi coast actually some months ago, beginning of this year, as general manager. I have my career of the last 20 years. I like to define myself as a European, being half German and half French, married to an Italian, and I've actually lived in seven European countries. So I really know Europe very well. I don't know so much outside. That's where I go on holidays. I started off with uh Glion, my education in Glion, and then had the great chance to be part of the Hilton Elevator program and stayed for seven years with Hilton. Had the chance to work there in seven years in five countries, five different hotels, two hotel openings, working regional as well. Opened the Molino Suki, one of the flagship hotels in Venice, and also in the end worked as commercial director in Germany. Then decided it was time to see something different, different type of company. So I moved to uh Deutsche Hospitality, now H World, uh back then still Steigenberger, where I was uh working as a regional commercial director, realized that regional was not my thing at all. I really needed to get back into the crazy operations. So when we took over the Conrad in Brussels as Steigenberger Wheelchairs, I stayed on as hotel manager. I'm sure we will talk about that hotel a little bit later on a bit more. And then after six years for Steigenberger, also due to some personal reasons, uh I moved to Barcelona and that's where I started with Minor. So I've been working the last seven years with Minor, first in Barcelona, then in Amsterdam, where I did the rebranding of the Krasnopolski, and uh yeah, now in the beautiful Amalfi post. Here we are.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Fantastic. Wow. So congratulations on your recent appointment as general manager of the Alatara Convento di Amalfi Grand Hotel. Estelle, can you describe what it's like to manage a prestigious and luxury boutique hotel in such a breathtakingly beautiful location? I can imagine that it doesn't get much better than that. What can you tell us about this hotel? What kind of clients do you attract? Where do they come from? What kind of experience are they looking for?

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Well, I have to say that I'm very lucky to be in such a beautiful place of the world. Even so I had a beautiful property in Amsterdam, I have to say that uh with the views I'm compensated every day, and also the weather is uh for sure uh much better. It's a stunning property, it's a boutique hotel, uh luxury property which has a history dating back from 1212, being a convent, so uh there's so much history here apart from the beauty of the property, and I have to say that uh you think you kind of get used to the view, but uh, I actually have the chance I walk to work every day because we're very close to Amalfi, and every day I come to this view, and I'm like, oh my god, I can't believe how lucky I am. It's really great fun because I also have a really amazing team here, very passionate hoteliers, let's say. It's a very different I really got out of my comfort zone because I've always worked in large hotels. Uh, in Amsterdam, we had 437 rooms and always in city centre hotels. Now we're more in a resort boutique hotel. We have 52 rooms and suites here. So it's very different. We have the chance to be able to focus on quality a lot, also having extremely high ADRs. And uh regarding the type of clients, it's uh basically leisure because uh yeah, it is a multi-coast. We also have some incentives, but most of it is leisure. People who are really we come also to re find themselves, not working a lot on the wellness part, mainly couples, uh, some families as well, since we welcome kids. The main feeder market is the US actually, but we also have in the coast in general, uh, the big majority comes from the US. We have actually from all over, so Europe, uh, and then obviously Middle East and Asia, with the Anantara brand being very known in that part of the world.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

So let's go back to your recent appointment as general manager. Could you please elaborate on the process involved in such promotions? Are they typically based on a selection process after submitting an application? Or are they more often a recognition of one's past performance and accomplishments?

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Well, it really depends. To be honest, in my case, uh so I've I was working with miners since 2017. Since I started, since I was already deputy GM beforehand, it was always clear that I wanted to go on and be a GM. I did the sidestep to Anantara because my goal was really to be a GM in a luxury property, in a full service property. So it was always clear for everybody in the company what my dream and goal was. This opportunity came up, and to be honest, in this case there was no real application process. They offered the position to me, and obviously I said yes. I think in general it depends uh on each situation. So for me, this time it worked like that.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

We've talked to a few women who are general managers of uh luxury hotels. How difficult do you think now, today in 2024, is it for a woman to be promoted a general manager? Did you have to face any specific challenges?

SPEAKER_02 6:50

For me personally, I obviously don't know what my career would have looked like if I was a man and other woman. I will never know that, so there's also no point to really think about it. But I have to say that I never really thought about it and I never felt that this uh affected my career. Obviously, um we have to all not uh make choices, so it really depends on each person. The the job of general manager obviously is uh 24-7 uh position, let's say. So um each one has to decide for themselves. I think by now I know uh former colleagues who had a great career and kids, and uh the men stayed at home. Some have a great support system and manage it with kids. In my case, uh, both my husband and I are both general managers, uh, he's in Amsterdam, I'm here. We decided this is uh our way and this is how we want to live our lives. Yeah, I have to say I'm proud of what I achieved.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yeah, it's uh we've heard this from other women as well, this uh trying to balance having a position like that and also having a family. So, and yeah, several women have said that that was a choice that they made. Estelle, in your opinion, is the hospitality field making strides in having a more gender equitable workforce? And if so, is this a global trend or is it reserved for only some countries, from what you've seen?

SPEAKER_02 8:08

From what I've seen, I really see equality. As I said before, it really depends uh on choices because of the requirements of the position. I haven't seen the differences, to be very honest. As I said, I worked in Europe, maybe in other parts of the world, it's not like this, but I also see more and more women coming up. It's less that it's true that we are less at the moment. I get a lot of positive comments uh about uh inspiring others as well. But uh again, I think it really depends on the choice of each one, how what are the priorities in in your life. I haven't seen any discrimination, I have to see. I was very lucky. I was uh promoted to front office manager of uh opening flagship whatever when I was 25, so I can really not say that faced any uh discrimination throughout my career. On the contrary.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

That's great to hear. I think from what we are hearing, it's definitely getting much, much better. It's going faster, and I think the industry is realizing that there are a lot of women out there that are great talents. After graduating with honors from the Gleon Hotel School in 2004, you swiftly assumed roles of leadership, which was quite commendable for a woman during the early uh 2000s. What do you believe contributed to your rapid ascent within hotel management?

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Well, I think it's a combination of things. It's hard work for sure that I put in, the passion. I think that uh always helps you to go on the right track. I was lucky uh to have leaders who believed in me and who also took leaps, as I just said, no, to uh put me in positions I was maybe not totally ready for, but uh who uh took a chance on me. And sometimes it's also to be in the right place at the right time, also showing high flexibility. I've always been very flexible of moving from one place to the other or changing positions, so that certainly also helps to uh in your career path.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

It's uh an excellent soft skill to have is to be open to new experiences and to be flexible.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Due to your heritage, origins, and professional experiences across various uh European countries, you obviously possess a commendable foundation in foreign languages and have significantly uh broadened your understanding of multiculturalism. Can you provide examples of how your proficiency in multiple languages and cultural awareness have positively influenced your endeavors, your career, you know, the positions that you've had?

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Yeah, definitely. I think by working in so different cultures, I mean, first of all, we all work with a lot of different cultures in the hospitality industry in most uh areas, no, where we have uh people from all over the world, which I think is one of the things which make our industry so great. But working really in the culture makes you again so much more flexible and adaptable, and that helps you to have empathy for the different styles, which uh obviously over the years I really managed to acquire. As I said, I lived in seven different countries, they're obviously all in Europe and they might seem from far away very similar, but I think I just uh in a very extreme situation right now, coming from uh Amsterdam and then going to southern Italy, which are basically two uh extremes of a scale. No, if we talk about the culture map, uh it's so helpful to have yeah, this understanding and an understanding that people are different and you just need to listen to them, understand what makes them tick, understand how they work. If you go back and forth, I've been uh going back from uh south north, south-north, where you have a little bit of uh extreme sometimes. It really helps you not only with the team members, also with the guests to have this empathy and see how to react in each uh situation. So, yeah, I have to say it was quite a culture shock when I first arrived in the Netherlands. Everybody always says that the Netherlands is uh you read uh, which is I think a great book, uh, The Culture Map by Erin Meyer. There you have always uh the Dutch on the on the extremes. And it's true. I think the country where it took me uh most time to get used to it was actually the Netherlands. And now going to south of Italy, it's it's a total opposite, but it actually makes it easy now to adapt because I've lived in so many different cultures. And if you suddenly have somebody who has a bit of a different personality, it's easier to adapt. It's really something I can only recommend. And also, if if you go to a different country, really fully emerge in the culture, learn the language, just go over the flow and see how it works out for you.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

A subject that has not been addressed in our podcast series is crisis management, an area in which your expertise appears evident. In your LinkedIn profile, it implies that you've encountered challenging situations. Would you be willing to expand on the various scenarios that you've encountered, beginning with the terrorist attacks? I'm sure our listeners would be very interested.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Yeah, I've um encountered a lot of uh challenging situations through my career, especially uh in both hotels in uh Brussels and in Barcelona, that were the two main ones where a lot of things happened. So uh you asked me about the terrorist attacks. I was both present in Brussels uh during the attacks, uh well, first the ones in Paris which affected uh Brussels and then the ones in uh Brussels themselves. And then when I just moved to Barcelona, we had uh the terror attacks also uh down the road, basically, um on the Ramblas. These were uh certainly um situations I don't wish anybody to experience. But actually, what I learned is uh well with all types of different crises and have had different ones uh during my career, and at the end of the day, it's all about people. First thing about your people, important to stay calm, adapt to the situation, be flexible, as I said before as well. You just need to see what happens and see what's take the decision, what's the best in that moment for your people. The first thing I've always done is to really make sure we reached out to all our team members and make sure that they're okay. Actually, in Brussels I did have some team members who were present at the airport uh during the attacks at the airport. So we really made sure that they have our full support, that uh they have somebody to talk to or that they need to get all the time and support that they need, reassure the team members, reassure the guests. Barcelona I had some guests affected, uh thank God not um extremely, but they were injured. With everything happening, it took a long time until the ambulances arrived. So, really being with them, giving updates, uh supporting with whatever they need, uh, helping them reach out to the families, and then yeah, adapting to the situation. For example, in Barcelona, afterwards we had uh shots fired. We don't know until today if it was for shots or not, but people in the street heard things afterwards, like hours later, which were like shots, so everybody was trying to hide. In that moment, we took the decision to give the chance for people to hide in our hotel. Others chose not to. I mean, it's decisions you take in the moment, but we really chose to uh host a lot of people and who couldn't get back to their hotels, made the menu of burgers and pasta and served, I think, 300 people that evening. And just uh do whatever you can in the moment and make sure everybody is okay. It's memories which uh stay with you forever, to be honest, and uh hopefully nobody ever has to experience. I think the the main tip for me in any crisis is always to stay flexible, stay calm, and think about the people first. Everything else doesn't matter in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

And to keep moving forward, you know? As long as you're doing things and taking action, I think this is uh really important. Sometimes a few weeks afterwards, you know, you can have some uh post-traumatic uh stress. But uh as long as you're moving forward and and taking action during uh these very stressful times, yeah, I can imagine.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Yeah, no, and that as you say, it can come back later. So also important to give the team, especially the teams support to talk about it, to have a psychologist, uh, to check in with them, as you said, also months later, you know, because it's not like the next day we go back to normal life.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Really not. We're keen to gather your insights on unions and strikes, specifically the locations and timings of these events, the nature of the demands that are presented, the methods employed to address and resolve any conflicts that uh can arise.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Yeah, but to be honest, I've been uh faced with um these issues mainly in Brussels. I think especially Belgium and France are quite renowned, unfortunately, for these type of events. It was for me something quite new to have for the team to go on a strike. It took some time, but we managed to turn it around. Again, it's about empathy and building trust, especially. So I think in the beginning, obviously we went through a rebranding, we went through a restructuring. So trust was a factor, that's normal. Nobody really to blame, it's just a situation. But by building trust, uh listening, talking, doing lots of meetings, uh showing that we were willing to find compromises, that we were there understanding or trying to understand them and what they needed and the staff needed, being close with everybody that helped us to uh and to search the dialogue to really be there and not just uh close up, but say, okay, what do you need? How do we solve it? What's the solution? It took some time, but I think it's maybe one of the things I'm most proud of in my career is that we managed during the time that I was there together with the team and the company to turn this around. Obviously, it's not like you then fully agree on everything, that's uh just the constitution doesn't make sense to arrive to this. But uh by creating trust, we could really start this uh dialogue, have a long-term relationship, communicate, being fair but firm and honest to say, okay, this we can do and that we can't do, so not giving any empty promises. So at the end, we managed to really not have any strikes anymore and or talk about it before it would escalate to that point. That was a great experience for me, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Of course, it's all about communication, compromise.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Yeah, absolutely. And I have to say that when I left, everybody was like, Oh, you must be so happy not to have unions anymore. I said, of course, it's not like I loved all those meetings, but it also pushed you to always be at your best. So, in a way, um, and that's what I learned from there.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Estelle, let's talk about the pandemic as we're on the subject of crisis management. Can you share your experience during this uh very difficult time? Where were you located at that time and how did you handle this crisis?

SPEAKER_02 18:58

I was very lucky because I was in Barcelona, which uh is my favorite city uh in the world. Really uh couldn't have been in a better place, let's say, to for the pandemic. Again, as I I keep on repeating, it was all about being flexible and uh adapting to the situation. So making the best of the situation. It was obviously a very difficult time for everybody, but personally for me it was a very enriching time because I decided to use the extra time we have, which normally we never have any extra time. So uh to make the best out of this uh very difficult situation and uh use this time. I did a lot of reading, I did some extra studies, I started mentoring via mentoring network and creating more relationships, networking, picking up relationships which you kind of leave on the side because you never have time to say, Oh, I'm gonna call next week, I'm gonna call next week. Making new relationships and also on a personal relationship, no, finally having time with your partner to actually exchange and not just run from one appointment to the next. So I think on a personal side, I've made really the best out of it. On a professional side, uh I also think every situation, however horrible it is, it's a great school and we learn so much from it, and you grow with it. So I think each of us really grew further with the pandemic. Whatever difficult the situation might have been, um, and uh also also from the hotels as businesses, we evolved and we learned, and the world changed afterwards. It's a great example of a crisis which we all had, where we had to be flexible, keep a positive mindset as well, because you can't change it. I always talk to my team a lot about the circle of influence. Do what you can influence and uh just adapt to what you can't influence because uh otherwise you just get miserable and it's not gonna help anything.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

The philosophy of keep calm and carry on.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Let's go back to talking about Glion. During your time at Glion Hospitality School in Switzerland, you unquestionably acquired a top quality education that provided you with a strong footing to navigate the most unexpected challenges that you later encountered. Do you think that this education was adequate? Can you tell us a little bit about what that experience was like studying hospitality?

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Well, I have to say, what I really enjoyed about my studies in Glion is that we had a lot of um real life projects. It was not only theory, because in the end, in our industry where you really learn the most, obviously you need to have the theory, but where you really learn is by practice. And I remember one of my best experiences of Glion is when we took over a restaurant. So we were third semester students, and we didn't have uh a clue about a lot of things in life, but we just took over a restaurant, had to make uh a menu, a concept, and one day you were the head chef, the next day we were cleaning the dishes, the next day you were uh the waiter. That was Just such a great experience. I think I learned more in those four weeks than the rest of the semester, but not because the rest wasn't interesting or important, but because it's an experience that you won't forget because you do it yourself. And I think there were so many projects like this during my studies, and I um I really see the difference between the schools who have this type of approach or where it's really only classroom-based like theory, which is important, but uh which is not gonna give you the same lifelong learning uh lessons, let's say.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Do you think that there could have been some other areas of study that you would have liked to have done? Do you think that hospitality programs can now today, what what kind of programs do you think they should perhaps try to develop? Because the world is changing so quickly. Uh definitely.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

I think that's the biggest challenge maybe for the schools, not to adapt uh as fast as because uh what they have this year on the curricula next year is is not gonna be adequate anymore. And I think that that is a challenge, not to really keep up uh in such a fast-paced world. So I'm I'm sure that a lot of things of uh what we did 20 years ago is not not relevant today anymore. Obviously, the basics stay the same. I have to say that um I'm sometimes surprised that some basics are missing in some students coming out of school, uh, even something basic as Excel knowledge, you know. I mean, we learned Excel 20 years ago, and uh I think still nowadays it's just a basic tool you need to use, and you would think that somebody uh younger should be much more affined with these tools. But I find even with uh now we we talk a lot about AI now, no? We just had our minor leadership summit, and one of the top things we talked about is AI because it's just uh the topic at the moment, and we just need to adapt ourselves. So I also make sure I use all these tools, but I think that sometimes I'm surprised to be honest, that uh the younger generation who should be much more tech affine, no, um, actually lack behind us or are less curious, maybe, so to say, more focused on social media, maybe, than on tools which can actually help us.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yeah, I'm sure all of the hospitality education IT teachers are going to be very happy to hear that because it's true, they would often say, it this is so important, it's so basic.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

It is because maybe nowadays it's just um like we just think it's normal that they know all the technology, but actually, if nobody ever shows uh how to make a proper PowerPoint presentation or an Excel spreadsheet, they just don't know, and then they come into the hotel, then you just take it for granted and say, Well, just uh prepare me that presentation, and they're like, Okay, they don't know how to do it. Not everybody, of course, but uh I think this is one of the things that the schools uh maybe need to focus on a bit more because maybe, yeah, we just take for granted that the knowledge is there already. And when we came to school, uh, we were just learning to use a computer for the first time, basically.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Absolutely. Estelle, have you seen a difference in evolution of young people coming into the industry today compared to maybe 10 or 15 years ago? What kind of differences have you seen in the kinds of candidates and the people that are coming to work in the hospitality industry?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Well, obviously, you can see the focus is very different, and uh most of us know are very concerned about it and also a bit sad about it because I miss sometimes the passion, and I think it's so nice to be passionate about something in life because, as you say, and it's also my motto find something you love and you never have to work a day in your life. I think now work is really seen as work, and let's do as little as possible, and let's ideally work only three or four days a week because I need to enjoy my life, otherwise, I'm missing out. Me, on the other hand, I feel like it's not about work, it's a hospitality industry, which is uh my life fulfillment because this is what I love doing. I wish that um this passion would come back because I think it would also make everybody, especially themselves, happier. Obviously, there are thank God there are still passionate people, obviously, but it gets much more difficult to find them or to get this passion out as well. Um I'm a big believer in engagement, so I do a lot of things with my team because I just think it's also up to us to stir this uh passion and make sure that they get passionate about it and get hooked, so to say, and say, actually, this is a lot of fun, I really want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

We really believe that having people like you, Estelle, can be very pivotal and can help inspire young people. Do you have anything to say to perhaps young people listening to this podcast to inspire them to pursue a career in the hospitality industry?

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Well, I think it's the best industry there can be. I also have to admit I don't know much else because my life is hospitality, and I just think there's everything that you can wish for. You can travel, you can meet people, but you also have the business side, you have the numbers, you have the strategy, you have the marketing. Like everything comes together in such a vibrant and never changing, ever changing, not never changing, it's changing every day. So it for sure never gets boring. I've never been bored uh a day in my career. And that's what I mean for young people, be passionate about what you do. If it's hospitality or something else, find something that you love doing because you will spend so much time, and if you love it, you will enjoy every day and you will do it right, you will get good feedback, and it will just be fun, and uh you can enjoy life working actually. Uh, another thing, as I said before, I think very clear the flexibility and to adapt to the situation and not like stay positive and see the positives and grab possibilities as they come along. And yeah, not everything is perfect, but uh make the best out of it and uh we will enjoy it in the end.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Thank you so much, Estelle, for those very inspirational words. We really appreciate you being with us today to talk about your position as a general manager in a beautiful place, your career path, and uh what makes you tick. So thank you so much for being with us.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Thank you so much, Krista and Gid Yogi, for giving me the opportunity to be here. Really love talking to you, and yeah, all the best with your program as well. It's a great series.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Thank you. Thank you so much. Winning medals at prestigious competitions like Swift Skills, Uh Skills, World Skills, and the AICR World Receptionist contest. The founder of SHE and the producer of the email.