Season 4 Episode 2 –with Nick Flax, Technical Services Specialist - Ball Seed Companyde

What does it take to keep greenhouse plants healthy—and where can a career in this growing industry lead you? In this episode, Nick, a Ball Seed Company technical support specialist, shares what it’s like to troubleshoot plant problems and support diverse operations. We explore how technology, sustainability, and innovation are transforming greenhouse production, and why these changes are creating exciting new roles for both seasoned professionals and newcomers. Whether you’re curious about plant science, fascinated by high-tech greenhouses, or considering a career in horticulture, this conversation offers insider perspectives you won’t want to miss. Tune in to discover why the greenhouse industry might be your next big opportunity!

Episode Hosts/Speakers:

Margaret Pickoff, Penn State Extension (host) 

Tom Butzler, Penn State Extension (host)

Nick Flax, Technical Services Specialist - Ball Seed Company

Caption – photo courtesy of Tom Butzler

Keeping It Green has an email: keepingitgreen@psu.edu
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Check out Penn State Extension's Green Industry Team website!

Transcript

New Year Check-In And Drought Watch

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to Keeping It Green, a podcast for ornamental plant professionals and enthusiasts, with hosts Margaret Pickoff and Tom Buxley.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Hello and welcome to Keeping It Green, a podcast from Penn State Extension for ornamental plant professionals and enthusiasts. I'm one of your hosts, Margaret Pickoff. I'm a horticulture educator with Penn State Extension. And on each episode, I'm joined by my colleagues on the green industry team as co-hosts. On today's episode, my co-host is Tom Butzler. Hey, Tom.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Hey, Margaret. Great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Thanks for being here. On today's episode, we'll be joined by Nick Flax from Ball Seed Company. But before we get to our interview with Nick, we'll start out with a little quick check-in about what we're up to at this time of year, which is early January, our first episode of 2026. Whoa. Tom, what's going on?

Winter Meetings And Upcoming Events

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yeah, a couple things. One, I was talking to someone the other day and they were driving up the Susquehanna River and they they mentioned how low it looked. And um during the growing season, I periodically checked the drought monitor map, but I haven't done it recently. So I pulled that up, and he was right. The eastern part of Pennsylvania is dry. In fact, the whole Northeast is really dry. Some of the uh states are in drought situations. So I thought that was kind of interesting. But when I reflect upon it, you know, we really haven't gotten any major snowstorms or or rainfall events. So um it's usually when things kind of recharge and we get lots of water. So that's kind of interesting. But as you mentioned, the um uh when you know, we're in the first uh part of the year, and for us extension educators, that's the winter meeting season. So, you know, a lot of us are going for full bore and interacting with the growers and and giving talks on some of the research and some of the things we saw last year. So the big thing coming up for me and some of the other Penn State educators is the uh Mid-Atlantic fruit and vegetable um uh conference. And so that's a three, four-day event where growers come in, a couple thousand plus and researchers and extension educators. We all kind of mingle. There's a trade show and just exchanging of ideas and and lots of great information. So that's uh down at Hershey, Pennsylvania, the end of this month.

Introducing Guest Nick Flax

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Nice. Yeah, that's always a great um just uh great opportunity, I think, for me in the past, because um I get to help out with uh sessions on topics that I don't normally work on. And so it's interesting to learn like what can I learn about potatoes this year, or you know, irrigation or something. Um, so yeah, that's always a great one. Um, yeah, most of most of my work recently has been fielding questions about upcoming programs. We have um an Arborist short course coming up in Bucks County in uh February, um, which I'm working with the urban forestry team to put on. And our sometimes co-host Tim Abbey is one of those instructors. Um, so that's coming up. Um, and uh we have the Green Industry Conference in March on March 5th. Um, and that's gonna be super fun. We have such a good lineup of speakers. Um, so yeah, get just getting ready for those programs. Um, we also, yeah, we haven't gotten not that the I've I've lived in Philly for I think four, four or five years, and I've never really had like a nice snowy winter here. Um, and my husband who grew up here um assures me that it used to snow a lot in Philly in the winter and now it just doesn't really. So uh we were excited to get like a couple inches a few weeks ago. Um, but it's mostly just been cold. Um yeah, just cold and dry. So that's where we are, I guess, and just dreaming about the the plant, plant season coming up. Um, so yeah, well, it's an exciting, exciting time. Um glad to be here in the new year. And um why don't we welcome on our guest for today, uh, who is Nick Flax. He is the technical services specialist at Ball Seed Company, uh, where he's been since, I believe, the fall of 2020. Um, and uh prior to that was a Penn State Extension horticulture educator. So welcome, Nick. We're so glad that you're here.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Oh, thanks, Margaret and Tom. I'm glad to be on here. Thanks for the invite. Um this is exciting. It should be a fun time.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

And a fun fact is that Nick, uh Nick's position was based in Bucks County, which is where I am located now.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

So Yeah, when you're you're you're talking about the Green Industry Conference. I I helped uh organize that for a couple of years. It's a it's a great, great meeting. It's a very good one.

What A Technical Services Specialist Does

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yeah, so fun. Um yeah. Well, so Nick, why don't you uh why don't we get started by having you share what it is you do for Bald Seed Company and um yeah you know who you work with, um what's your day-to-day like?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Sure. So I I guess the the way I like to explain my role is I I'm effectively extension for for Ball Seed. Um Ball Horticultural Company is the sort of the umbrella company, uh you know, just ball, um, but it's actually made up of several plant breeding companies, uh primary research and cell biology division, uh the distribution company, which is Ball Seed, which I'm I'm housed within. Um, we also have international uh you know production farms for unrooted cuttings, seed, uh all kinds of things. So um, but my role is very much customer or grower facing. Um I'm I'm the guy that all of our North American customers can call for help with basically any situation, uh anything that's going on in the greenhouse. Plants are looking weird, we've got some a new pester, you know, new pester disease pressure. Um if it's happening out in the greenhouse, I'm a resource for them to reach out to and help solve the problem.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

So your clo your clientele will be mostly greenhouse growers, predominantly uh you know, floriculture growers, but um, you know, we have an ever-increasing uh customer base of cut, you know, specialty cut flower growers, you know, a lot of a lot of smaller, uh, smaller farms, um, more you know, diversified uh ag operations that are dipping their toes into floriculture production. Um so it's it's it's really it's really kind of a mixed bag, uh, if you will. I could be talking to uh a you know a large grower that supplies uh finished bedding plants to like a big box retailer one minute and be talking to uh a small specialty cut flower grower with two high tunnels uh doing some seasonal cuts uh you know five minutes later. So it's it's really interesting. It's very fun. You know, I get to you know, I get to look at challenges through a lot of very different lenses, and uh it's it's really kind of a unique role.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

I think I saw that you described your work in one of the ball um newsletters as kind of being like an ER doctor for greenhouse plants, which I which I think is great. Do you find that most of your calls are kind of bordering on that like emergency level where the, you know, it's it's like it's already a big problem, or are most growers calling you before it gets to that kind of uh emergency status?

Common Greenhouse Problems: It’s The Water

SPEAKER_01 8:08

It depends on the season. Um, but most I'd say probably three-quarters of my conversations are hey, there's an ongoing issue or concern, I need help. Um that's that tends to be the trend, you know, starting around now. So early season, you know, young plant production uh for spring for sort of the northern two-thirds-ish of uh uh of you know the United States and Canada. Um, you know, we have our southern customers who are pretty much growing stuff year-round. So there's kind of a constant trickle from uh from the south basically year-round, whether it's bedding plants or seasonal potted crops, you know, poinsettias, mums, things like that. Um and then really from kind of end of October. So basically once we're out of mum season through the early, you know, maybe you know, the first half or so of January, I have a much higher proportion of people asking questions, trying to get out in front of things. Like uh just uh uh a couple hours ago, I was talking with a grower who was asking uh mum-related questions. Um, you know, you know, we're on the tail end of fall. He's thinking about you know booking orders and stuff for for mum liners for this coming season. And we talked through fertilizer, fungicide best practices, um, you know, how to troubleshoot some specific issues and disorders that he ran into this past season. So kind of the slower time of year, uh folks have a little bit more time to digest, unpack, and talk about things that, hey, I this happened last year. I I don't want to do that again. So what what can we do differently?

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Well, so you you you have this um interaction with all facets of the green industry, um bedding plants and cut flowers and so forth, as you mentioned. And you've been in this position for four years. So do you get a handle on what are more the most common production problems, or the you know, is it a fertility thing that keeps coming up, or is it most pest issues? Do you get a handle on what seems to be kind of a recurring theme? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Um I would say the lion's share of issues that aren't like a specific pest, uh, because you know pests will just come and go uh depending on the crop and time of year. But if we're talking overall crop health and quality uh concerns, I'd say uh a majority of issues as you kind of peel back the layers of the problem, so many of them ultimately relate to uh irrigation practices and soil moisture management. Just oftentimes people just overwatering. Um you know, you you can you can increase you know root zone disease pressure issues by overwatering, you can reduce nutrient availability by overwatering, uh, you know, whether you're leaching stuff out or you're just reducing uh oxygen in the root zone, so you're getting less root respiration, less nutrient uptake. Um I I feel like most growers could stand to grow things a little drier. And I know that's I know that's a challenge.

Perched Water Tables And New Growers

SPEAKER_00 11:30

That's really interesting because I I'm definitely more on the like field-based, you know, outdoor growing environment, which is very different. And I feel like um, yeah, what we've been dealing with in the ornamental landscape, um, and I also work with cut flower growers, but um, mostly, you know, their their outdoor production um in this part of Pennsylvania and probably in the wider area is these shifts between like getting a whole lot of rain all at once and then no rain for a really long time. Um, and that's kind of its own stress of like these outdoor conditions and they're unpredictable. And, you know, growers can supplement with drip irrigation or they can, you know, use mulches and stuff like that, but there's only so much that they can control. Um, and something I find so fascinating and kind of baffling about the greenhouse environment is like you can control like almost everything. And it's it's like it's cool to see how growers dial in um to like specific issues and and moderating humidity and temperature and and irrigation, um, but still, you know, like you know, run into issues with overwatering. Like they have too much, it's like an abundance of something that you know, their outdoor counterparts are like, if only it would rain and give us some of a break. But at the same time, you don't get the that disease pressure, the root disease pressure as much.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Well, the the unique challenge in container crop production in greenhouses is you have that perched water table. You know, our soil physics just maintains that that perched water table at the bottom of your container, whether it's pots or flats or or even plug trays, that just stays you know pretty saturated for a long time, unless you really dry that soil column down super hard between uh irrigations. Um and I I don't, you know, I haven't been in this role for like you know 20 years or something, but I will say in the last few years in particular, I've seen a lot of I've seen a lot of senior growers with a lot of experience retiring and sort of an influx of younger growers with a lot less hands-on experience. And I find that in general, the less experienced grower tends to be a little more heavy-handed with irrigations. And so and if you don't have like a some sort of horticulture educational background, you may not have really had uh, you know, a soil science class. You may not, you may not have learned about the perched water table effect in container crop production. So if you don't know about these things and your default is to water more heavily, because you're just like, I just want to make sure they're not, you know, my plants aren't wilted and and stressed uh before you know by the time I come in tomorrow. Um, I think that's a sort of an artifact of of why this tends to occur pretty frequently, or at least in recent years, you know, less experienced growers, um, plus soil physics uh in in a container. It's it's a it seems it seems like kind of a simple thing, but there's a lot of moving parts in greenhouse production, and it's something that's pretty easy to overlook at the end of the day. You know, I I'm talking with growers about this stuff every day, but I you know, I I don't know how often like a grower team at a given greenhouse is talking about these things with each other, building awareness with their their younger staff who who have less experience under their belts. So I I always like to pose a challenge to growers, particularly folks who are newer to the industry, get uncomfortable or get comfortable with being uncomfortable uh with your soil moisture. Like at the end of the day, you should be just a little bit nervous about shit. Did I should I maybe have given them a little splash at at two or three in the afternoon?

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Yeah, but Nick, everyone wants to go home at the end of the day and be able to sleep at night. That's all I know.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

But but if you if you do that, if you do that a few times, you'll build that comfortability with growing a little bit more on the dry side, and it pays huge dividends in crop quality.

Sensors, Automation, And Water By Weight

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Um you would think, you know, so you mentioned it seems like when you peel back the layers, you said, it seems like a lot of the problems are coming in. The the base or root of the problem is is irrigation for a lot of these things. And you but you know, is in the future, could you see technology being used in some of these greenhouses? I know some are small or might not be able to afford it, or they just don't believe in that. But what technology might be able to kind of help with that, uh, the irrigation timing and and the level of soil moisture in that in that pod.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Yeah, so actually, uh, and some of the work that I that I did in grad school was looking at soil moisture sensor controlled irrigation for container crop production. Um, there's tons of opportunity for that. Um, and as the can as the technology continues to improve, the cost of of sensors goes down. Um I see it, I see tons of opportunity for uh for growers to be able to implement those sorts of tools uh to really dial in uh crop technology uh or you know, crop quality using this technology. Um there's a really cool uh case study that was done by uh Dr. Mark Van Ursel at uh University of Georgia. It was more kind of on the nursery, the container nursery side of things, but it was a really neat sort of proof-of-concept uh uh commercial, kind of commercial grower trial that they did with uh a local nursery. Uh I can't remember the specific crops. I want to say gardenias and and one other crop, where they were just manually, they were making manual irrigation decisions, and they put in sensor-controlled irrigation system in one area. They shortened crop time drastically, they almost completely they they really, really reduced uh disease pressure in that crop. And I it kind of it was a it was a very clear example of this type of technology can work really well. Granted, in in my personal experiences for smaller container crop production, the way the technology exists right now, there are some limitations. Um, you need to have like good soil to sensor contact. And when you have a small, uh a small sort of substrate profile, as as you're drying stuff down, uh as the media is uh contracting and expanding with your irrigation cycles, if it pulls that sensor away from the growing media, you'll start to get bad readings. So so there there's there's some sort of functional challenges that need to be worked out on that end. But I think for like hanging baskets, for large mixed container programs, uh for you know for floriculture growers, and definitely, you know, any container nursery growers. I mean, you can even use it in field soils too, uh, to make to make irrigation decisions or automate it. Um there's tons of opportunity for that. And and actually at ball, we uh um actually our our former team leader, Dr. Will Healy, he uh sort of created this process we call we call water by weight. Um for and it's it primarily is used for propagation. So whether you're rooting uh unrooted cuttings or growing uh you know, growing plugs from seed to really dial in uh your initial, like initial soil moisture so you can maximize germination, you know, percentage, speed, and uniformity, um, as well as you know get cuttings rooted uh quickly, you know, minimize, minimize shrink and losses in that early part of the uh crop cycle or or in the supply chain. If we're talking about young plant suppliers shipping uh plug and liner trays out to finish growers, um it's and it's while it's not highly tech driven, um it it's a You know, our one of our uh companies, Ball Australia, they've actually started uh implementing that across the board in their young plant production, and it's really reduced a lot of issues. So um, you know, that kind of app type approach. So using technology in that sense um can be uh another way to utilize technology to minimize watering related issues.

How Ball Stays On The Cutting Edge

SPEAKER_00 20:28

I'm kind of curious about um, because obviously, so you're um you're staying or or trying to stay at the forefront of like these uh technical innovations that are happening. Um and I I wonder like, where are you going for the latest information? Is that coming from Ball? Like, is there research happening at Ball into different innovations? Or are you hearing about them from other growers or or like um, you know, obviously reading scientific papers or like where where is the where is the forefront of the innovation? Like where is that happening and how is it being communicated? And how do you how do you access it? Because I think it's something I I struggle with as an extension educator is like to stay in in part because I'm you know early in my career. And so I'm learning a lot from growers themselves. And and I think it's hard to stay ahead of ahead of the grower and be able to provide something for them that they don't know already. Um, so I'm just curious, like where where do you go for that information?

Big Greenhouses As Plant Factories

SPEAKER_01 21:40

So it's definitely the the toolbox approach. Um uh, you know, at Ball, we definitely do have um, uh especially on like the plant breeding side of things, we have a lot of our own research uh and sort of proprietary uh stuff going on behind the scenes. Um uh ball helix, our our research and cell biology and plant pathology group. Um they're the folks you know developing different molecular techniques and and things like that uh for plant breeding and and and such. Um but you know, we that that's that's one one side of things. Um we have folks in basically each of the different business units at ball who are constantly looking at new and emerging technologies uh that are relevant more to what each sort of ship uh uh ship in the armada uh uh focuses on. Um we have a lot of uh collaborations, uh ongoing collaborations with different researchers um on the university level. Uh a lot of folks both on my team and and across the company. You know, we go to different trade shows and and things like that to you know talk to different vendors. Um, you know, uh we've come across some really interesting stuff at meetings like Cultivate in uh in Columbus, Ohio. Uh that's in kind of you know early mid-July each year, um, or other trade, you know, trade shows like Mance uh in Baltimore, you know, this that's coming up here in Baltimore uh in January. Um we do a lot of collaboration with folks uh in Europe as well. I I think I kind of think of the Netherlands as as the place where all of the sort of the cutting-edge uh controlled environment uh crop production tech comes from. Um and there's a lot of Dutch people, uh Dutch folks uh at Ball and at different companies uh that we're partners with as well. Um so we you know kind of have a uh a direct line to that as well. But also absolutely, you know, reading, uh, you know, reading peer-reviewed research articles, things like that. You know, my my colleagues and I are are still very much involved uh with like ASHS or American Society for Horticultural Science. Um, you know, some of uh some of us serve on different committees or in different groups, um, sort of the industry liaison side of things. Um, but you know, we we attend the scientific conferences as well uh to kind of you know learn what's you know what's new and emerging. Um again, the like the folks uh in within Ball Helix who are focused on plant pathology, they attend uh the APS or American Phytopathological Society conference each year. Um, you know, so we're we're all kind of uh re reaching into the toolbox for different uh different sources for of information. Um and then in terms of communicating things out, uh grower talks or ball publishing, um, the the various um uh newsletters and things that uh newsletters and and magazine publications that come out of ball publishing. That's that's I'd say probably one of the main pipelines that we as ball use to help spread information, uh, get info out to customers. Um I I personally contribute to the tech on demand newsletter. It comes out every Friday. Um, so there one one just came out today uh when we're recording this. Um uh you know, I I kind of use my my weekly column in that to uh put information on on growers' radars for hey, these are current ongoing issues in the greenhouse uh, you know, uh that I'm talking about with growers this week. Um, and wherever I can. If I came across some new tech or a new technique or new idea to help address uh kind of a recurring issue, um, I try to you know inject that into you know the sort of innovative strategies to uh correct issues and solve problems um in into my my piece there. Um so it there's yeah, a lot a lot of information coming from a lot of different places, but whether it's through uh things like ball publishing, um newsletters and magazines, or just talking with growers, um speaking at different uh speaking on educational programs at different conferences and trade shows. That's kind of how we as ball try to share the latest and greatest with with the the green industry at large.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Yeah, you you both have used these terms uh throughout the conversation cutting edge, emergent, emergent technologies, new tech. And I maybe this was a comment, maybe you don't want to respond to it, but I I had a chance to uh visit a 40-acre greenhouse operation, and it was it was high tech. And we had a tour of it, and it wasn't a horticulturist that gave us the tour, although they had them on staff, it was an engineer. And I just thought it was just kind of interesting that that an engineering is talking going around and just showing us how this operation works, um, where plants almost kind of almost kind of secondary. I mean, they they all they look great, they look uniform, healthy, but it was the it was the engineering marvel of this 40-acre operation.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

So absolutely. And and you know, and I I I I'm I'm happy to speak to this. Um it's rare that people see how a really large-scale floriculture greenhouse works. And you know, some people may not like the like the term, but in a lot of ways, these really big operations are effectively plant factories.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Absolutely. I was gonna say that, but I didn't want to offend anybody.

Labor, Automation, And Retail Pressure

SPEAKER_01 27:53

But no, no, I any anyone who's offended by that term, it's that you know, they I to me, I think that that means you just feel some kind of way about uh, you know, that that you you may personally feel like you're you're taking away sort of the connection to the plant uh in in saying that. And that's I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Um but the successful large-scale floriculture greenhouses work and are optimized using things like lean, yeah, lean flow principles. And these are these are all these are all ideas that come from uh from process manufacturing. Um it's it's you know, it's taking a a different a very different sort of philosophical approach to how do we produce a beautiful flowering plant uh than we have traditionally in a very what used to be a very very much a smaller you know, a higher number of smaller scale greenhouse operations where there was a lot of manual labor, you know, a lot of local manual labor. Um the industry just over the past few decades has has very much shifted. Yep, absolutely. Um and it really is amazing. Um, I've you know I've I've been in in quite a few of these types of operations, and there's tons of automation. Um there's the kind of one of the overarching goals is minimize the number of times a person has to touch a plant.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Um, you know, optimize the growing environment for the plants, optimize the people working environment for the people, um, to increase you know workflow and you know, the rate at which things are getting done. Um there's an increasing shift to uh towards using automation for things like sticking unrooted cuttings, uh transplanting young plants. Um, and that's driven largely by lack of labor ability and or you know, lack of labor force in a lot of these areas where larger greenhouse operations are. Um and yeah, so you know, some of these really huge greenhouses, you you'd really don't see a ton of people in all the time.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Um, I think the way I rationalize you know the acceptance of that, Nick, is that it's more plants for the masses, it's making this material cheaper or you know, economical for people to buy, the place in their garden, the place in their landscape. Um, whereas you know, labor's getting scarce or more expensive. And if we were these smaller operations like you were talking about, this material would be pretty costly. But with this kind of this mass production, you could use the term factory, then uh more plants for more people.

The Shift To Biological IPM

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yeah, and it's also that shift has also partially been driven by I I gotta be careful how I say this. Um uh the this the shift in the industry has partially been driven by uh by big box retailers. I mean, there's no there's no there's no way to sugarcoat it, and I'm not demonizing you know large, you know, large chain retailers. They have their place. But um really the the desire to have a smaller number of suppliers uh feed you know feeding plant material into those stores and the the pay-by-scan business model where the grower doesn't earn anything for the plant they produced until it's scanned at the checkout at the retailer. Um that that shift is really what has kind of changed the changed the landscape of the greenhouse industry. Okay um you know, you the larger larger greenhouse operations are able to shoulder more of the operating costs and the sort of the upfront cost of everything uh than a you know mid-size or smaller greenhouse is able to. Um and and they basically expand themselves with the desired expansion of business from those larger retailers. You know, hey, we want you to supply more locations, and okay, well, now we got to put in five more acres of greenhouse, ten more acres of greenhouse. Um so they they kind of grow with the large chain retailers. Um so it's a it's a it's an interesting, it's an interesting phenomenon, but um yeah, it's it's sort of yeah, I guess I guess that's that's probably the best way to best way to best way to put it.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Well, and I feel like the you know, our industry is not alone in that. I feel like there is a big push for um in a lot of industries moving moving from a more labor-intensive, like small scale um to a much more you know efficient um uh operation, it's kind of like in line with the the big box model. So we're not immune from that. And you know, I'm sure like Tom said, there's there's more plants. A lot of people do buy their plants at Lowe's and Home Depot, and maybe that's how they they form a connection. Um, and then, you know, we all work with smaller scale growers who really prioritize like I'm hiring um, you know, a labor force, I'm gonna give them good benefits, you know, they're gonna have good working hours. I'm hiring highly educated or very experienced people, um, and doing it mostly by hand. And, you know, there's a there's certainly a a big and growing market for that as well. And I think um I've I've certainly seen that. Um, it's just a different, yeah, different price point, um, maybe a different customer base. But um I I was very impacted, I don't know in a good way or bad way, but seeing when we did our uh professional development trip down to North Carolina and visited a lot of these larger operations is like the first time seeing that robot arm sticking, cutting.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Oh, the ISO machines. Yeah, those are really cool.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

It's like there's something in the kind of creeped me out a little bit, but also was like so fascinating and it was going so fast and it was so accurate. Um, and you know, they were saying like this is 40 times faster than a person could do it. And it's like, well, uh, you know.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Can't argue with that.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Yeah. Um, it's not like a part of the industry that that I um really interact with so much, but it it is pretty fascinating. Um, you know, these different innovations and the the scale and efficiency. Um, so that must be cool to to kind of get to work with uh operations of different scales and sizes and models.

Building A Bio IPM Program That Works

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Um absolutely, absolutely. And it it what's interesting is at the end of the day, the same underlying concepts are what you are are what you you go back to when you're troubleshooting problems out in the greenhouse. You know, whether somebody has uh a high capacity or or good infrastructure for automation and and things like that versus if they're doing tons of stuff by hand, it's the same principles, it's the same five factors of plant growth that that affect how plants grow and develop. And you know, disease pressure is disease pressure, whether you're in a in a small, you know, uh, you know, a small thousand square foot greenhouse or in a hundred plus acre operation. I mean, it's you know the the manner in which you execute the solution to the problem may be different, but um and I that's what I I think is really fun and interesting about talking and working with all these different sizes and scales of growers. Um you get to kind of translate from practical terms for one into practical terms for another.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

So so Nick, I look at your job as kind of an interface between, you know, these these different range of growers, sizes, and so forth, and then your company, uh ball seed. And so, you know, you you you're you you're listening to both sides. What trends do you see uh coming in the next uh couple years? Anything of of note or interest, whether it be um biological control or the um slow uh elimination of of traditional pesticides, or you know, what do you what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Um on the uh yeah, I mean, uh well that's that's actually that's a that's a big lane um and one that I'm I'm a strong advocate of uh the shift towards a more more integrated integrated biological IPM approach, um, and kind of getting away from the the old school uh you know calendar spraying and and reactive uh reactive pest and disease management. Um that's a that's a big one, um, both on the supply chain side. Um so for example, like our a lot of our our uh cutting and seed farms are starting to phase out more and more conventional uh you know fungicides and insecticides in favor of uh using you know predators and parasitoids for pest management, things like that. Um so we're we as as ball horticultural are trying to sort of kind of you know practice what we preach um and are investing in making that shift. Uh part of it is driven by regulatory changes, uh both domestically and abroad. Um, but one of kind of you know, we at Ball, we have the sort of what we call the seeds of success. And one of those is kind of the underlying sort of the core philosophies of how we operate as a corporation. One of those is do the right thing. And sustainable, you know, approaching production and sort of leading uh leading in sustainability is kind of like it's kind of doing the right thing both for the environment and for people who you know purchase and and enjoy our products. So I talk with a lot of particularly growers with younger or customers with younger grower staff. There's a lot of interest in the younger generation uh to get away from you know spraying chemicals frequently. A lot, you know, uh many, many younger folks don't they're they're just not comfortable putting on Tyvek, putting on a respirator. I mean, and you know, I've I've I've suited up, you know, full face mask and and Tyvek in a greenhouse in the middle of August. And as much as I I felt comfortable in the sense that I trusted my PPE and I had been properly educated and trained on how to use it, and you know, I felt safe, I didn't enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Miserable experience in a greenhouse and a Tyvek suit. I get you.

Careers: Getting Into Greenhouse Growing

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Yeah, I I don't think anybody wants to, you know. Gets out of bed in the morning and says, I want to walk around in Tyvek in 90 plus degree weather for four hours today. Um, and so looking at it from both a personal health and safety standpoint and environmental standpoint, there's a lot of folks who are interested in biological IPM. Um, so that's something that I frequently talk with growers about, like when they're running into insecticide resistance issues, you know, uh talking through ways they can start integrating uh different bio IPM tools to address pest concerns and reduce reliance on conventional uh chemical insecticides. Um that's a pretty regular conversation that I have with folks just on the young plant and finisplant side of things uh here in North America. Um uh Ball Publishing uh a couple of years ago put out its first uh uh biosolutions guide. Um so you know, for for years, we've published the the Grower Talks IMF or the Insecticide Mitocide Fungicide Guide. Um we've also worked with our university, uh university research partners and Fine Americas to publish the annual and perennial PGR guides. So these are all Grower Talks special editions. Um the PGR guides get updated every two year on a two-year alternating two-year cycles. Um but you know, we we as a company recognize the need for more information on biological IPM. Um, you know, there's a lot of stuff out there. There's a lot of, you know, it's kind of kind of the kind of a wild west type situation. And we wanted to create a resource that growers can go to to find answers to learn about, you know, learn about sort of the different and philosophical approaches to implementing an integrated bio IPM program versus sort of the the traditional reactive or uh preventative, you know, calendar spraying and drenching approach. Um, so it's now in its third third edition, I believe. Um, but these are all free for anyone to access on growertalks.com uh if you look for special editions. Um these are resources that I I share constantly with folks, and it's a really great you know resource to learn, uh kind of dip your toes in it a little bit. Um but you know, at the end of the day, things like biological IPM, they really, you know, uh one a bio IPM program for one grower is not necessarily gonna work at another another grower's facility. So it's something that you really need to kind of work on and dial in. Um you know, some some strategies are unique to your specific facility layout. Um it's not a one-size-fits-all model. So it really requires a lot of investment in time and energy. And I find one of the more successful things uh that growers can do if they want to shift towards bio IPM is give someone in your business, in your in your operation, sort of ownership over making it happen, executing it. Um, you know, don't just say, hey, we're gonna start putting these bugs out in the greenhouse. Um that rarely, that rarely works. Um just you know, throwing something out there. Uh you need to take a much more measured approach to it. But that's it's a big trend. It's a big shift. Um you know, you look at the industry over in Europe, they've already, you know, that there are so there are so much there are so few chemical insecticide options over there that it's kind of the standard in Europe. Um the shift uh towards more bio-IPM in Canada has has been around for quite a few years. And now that sort of idea is has trickled down further into uh into American greenhouses as well.

Personal Note And Closing

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Yeah, it does seem um I do recall from a couple of those bigger operations that we visited in North Carolina on that trip, was that they did have at least one dedicated person who was like the biocontrol person. And they that's all they focused on. And even in some of the smaller operations, like I think at North Creek nurseries here in PA, they also have like a person who is the IPM person. And it does seem like, yeah, it's it's complex enough and specific enough and requires uh, you know, maybe different different skills that you do kind of need someone who's just focused on that and they're not worrying about the production or the harvest or you know, whatever irrigation. Um so that does seem to be a key part of it. Um well, um, Nick, as we're getting towards the end of our conversation, I I guess since we're almost out of time, we're not quite to our final question, but um just for those folks who are listening who might be interested in the field, we always try to you know ask some questions about you know getting into this field and like um breaking into the green industry or horticulture or finding your your place, whether you're a student or someone who's changing careers. Um so I guess kind of if if uh maybe briefly, if you have any thoughts on, you know, how how do you find your way? Um, any advice for folks who are interested in this kind of work and don't know where to start or are feeling kind of lost.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Sure. So um for I'll I'll I'll start, I'll kind of do two buckets. So for for young people who are you know finishing high school or maybe an undergraduate right now, um, if you're interested in the greenhouse industry, one of the best things to do is try and try and get some experience, whether it's through internships or um or or even just you know like a summer job working in a greenhouse, as much as greenhouse is more you know, the the busy season is kind of spring, sort of January through the end of May is like the the the go time. Um trying to get some try to get some hands-on experience. And it doesn't have to be at a high level. Um, you know, if you're an assistant, you know, can do assistant grower uh sort of level where you're seeing you're actively interacting with crops uh in production. Um that's a super, super valuable thing. Honestly, one of the best things that I did during undergrad was I took an entire year off of traditional academics and spent time in the industry. That's where I I that's how I really got a sense for what the greenhouse industry is all about. Um, and you may find that you you're not ultimately drawn to the production side of things, but there are so many other roles in the greenhouse industry that that are connected to production and actually growing of the plant that you may find you're actually really interested in. Um so there's there's a lot of opportunity, and it's just so much of what we do is sort of hidden from the average, the average consumer that um, you know, getting getting out there and getting some experience in a greenhouse will go a really long way. For folks who are looking to maybe shift careers, I talk with a lot of growers who you know, hey, I I bought I just bought a small greenhouse business. Um, you know, the previous owner was retiring. I wanted to change a pace. One of the best things you can do is connect with local extension education, uh, you know, extension educators. Um see if you can, uh if you have a local community college that has some basic horticulture classes, things like that, build a little bit of that technical knowledge. Um, because I I have a lot of conversations with folks in that sort of lane that say, I bought this business and now I'm in charge of all of it, and I'm not sure what to do. Help. And and I mean, and you know, I'm I'm happy to I'm happy to help. I I enjoy it. But uh getting some hands-on experience and and developing some technical knowledge is really essential for uh for folks who want to be on the on the greenhouse side uh and the actual production side of things. It's plants and and plant production systems are a lot more complicated than you think. Um kind of you know, before we started recording, we were talking about uh uh sort of the industry, green industry as a whole. Um, you know, a lot of folks have this notion that plants just sort of appear in the garden center, and there's so much more to it. There's a whole international supply chain for the cuttings and seed, and it's it's so much more complicated than 99% of people realize. Um so getting some functional hands-on experience is one of the best things you can do.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Yeah, and when you expand that out to the people who are supporting those people who are doing the growing and the you know, the seed companies and the fertilizers, and it's really a pretty wide wide uh selection of roles.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Yeah. Um cool. Thanks for sharing that. Um, we like to end our episodes on a more personal note, and so uh we invite you to share something that you like to do when you're not working.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Well, when when I'm not working uh nowadays, I'm spending a lot of time with my my wife and my just turned uh 18 month-old uh son. Um so lot lots of lots of time with the little one. Um uh, you know, spending time outside uh, you know, whenever I can. And um it's been a few been a couple of years now, but uh I'm an avid scuba diver. Uh you know, be being under the water, being in the ocean, seeing the reefs, and you know, it's it's a complete separation from my my day-to-day world of being connected to plants. So it's an interesting dichotomy.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

That's amazing. Yeah, well, both of those things, family time, ocean, scuba diving time, all you know, this all sounds really great. Um, thank you so much for coming on and sharing about your work and your experiences. Um, it's it's been really fun chatting with you.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Yeah, likewise. Thanks again for having me on. Uh and uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Yeah, happy new year.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Yeah, happy new year, happy 2026.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Happy 2026, everybody. All right, thank you so much, Nick. Thanks, Tom, and um take care, everybody.

unknown 51:23

Uh