Anzac Day Special: Home Coming of a Vietnam Veteran

In this moving special edition of The Grief Ocean Podcast, producer Kellie takes the reins to interview her father-in-law Keith, a proud Vietnam Veteran, in honour of Anzac Day.

Keith shares heartfelt reflections on the meaning and importance of Anzac Day, his own experiences serving in Vietnam, and the deep pride he felt for his father, who also served his country. Spanning generations of service, sacrifice, and remembrance, this powerful conversation offers personal insight into courage, family legacy, and the enduring spirit of those who served. It also gently explores the often-unspoken grief carried by veterans and their families—the grief of trauma, loss, silence, and the lasting impact war can leave across generations.

 Keith also speaks to the heartbreaking reality many Vietnam veterans faced on returning home, often met with misunderstanding, silence, and being left to their own devices to carry what they had endured, alongside the grief of leaving families behind and the complex emotional toll of returning to life after war.

Amid this, he reflects on the enduring power of friendships formed in service—the deep bonds between fellow veterans, and how these connections have often been a vital source of strength, understanding, and survival long after the war ended.

A particularly moving part of this family’s ANZAC story is Keith’s son (Kellie’s husband), Leigh, who last year marched alongside his father, pushing Keith in his wheelchair due to health challenges. Leigh also carried and wore his grandfather’s medals, sharing in a powerful intergenerational moment of remembrance. Moments like these reflect how the next generations continue to honour, remember, and keep the ANZAC spirit alive through lived connection, presence, and shared remembrance.

A deeply touching and meaningful episode, created to honour all veterans and their families this Anzac Day.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Please be advised, this podcast includes discussions on death, dying, grief, and loss. If listening to any of the content triggers you, please contact Lifeline on 131114. Or for information on grief counselling and support, visit thegriefocean.com.au. This is the Grief Ocean Podcast, riding the waves of grief with you. Hosted by Grief Counsellor Christy Collard.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Welcome listeners to a special Anzac episode of the Grief Ocean Podcast. I'm Kelly, and today I have the pleasure of chatting to a proud Vietnam vet who often describes himself as the luckiest man alive because he is also my father-in-law. Listeners, we have a special relationship that's based on banter, so you might hear a bit of that coming out in this podcast, but it's nothing to worry about, we do like each other. Keith was drafted in 1969 when the Australian forces were building up in Vietnam and he was assigned to the Royal Australian Army Medical Corps as a medic. His responsibilities were first responder. So as I mentioned before, Keith is a proud Vietnam vet who has dedicated his retirement to volunteer work in Legacy in Perth. Legacy is a charity that supports the families of deceased and incapacitated veterans. Its mission is to provide financial, social and developmental assistance to ensure these families, including widows and children, can fully recognise their potential and not be at a disadvantage. Keith actively participates in Anzac Day celebrations each year. And we have many, many, many things to talk about, Keith. So should we just dive in?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Let's dive.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

So I guess I'm interested in Anzac Day and how that sort of came about for you as the first memories, watching your dad Bob, and I guess I really want to know how old you were and what you remember about that time.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Alright, Kelly, let's rock.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Let's roll.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Let's roll. It was about 1956, age ten, that I would have watched my father marched along with my mother and three other siblings. I don't think the others were born then. Um, which they would form up top of Birch Street at the park and end up at the Boulder RSL.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

So you were in Kalgooli?

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Boulder at the stage, yes. So we were just watchers. The men would go off to the RSL and have a few frosties, while the women would sit up in the hall a big spread of sandwiches and party cakes and etc, etc. So it was quite a day thing back then. It was a big deal. A big deal.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Was it a big crowd?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

A big crowd from memory, yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yeah. And what's Bob's history? So Bob being your dad, which war was he in?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

He was uh in the Second World War, in the infantry, and uh saw service in the Middle East, fighting in Egypt, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, those sort of places. Wow. As the war went on, he or he Australia was putting the pressure on to bring the troops back home because of the threat from the Japanese. So uh they were sent back home to booster the stocks here. They then went underwent a bit of jungle training in Townsville, I think they went. And from there to New Guinea, where he uh fought along the Kokoda Trail. He uh won a bravery medal on the beach at Gona for attacking a uh Japanese machine gun post where we he was baumited in the arm.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Was eventually awarded a military medal for bravery.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Oh my god, what a story. And how long was Bob away for? Do you remember in total?

SPEAKER_01 4:17

It was pretty much the five years that the uh Second World War went for.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Do you remember when he came home?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

No, no, I wasn't even born actually.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Well, you are old, just not that old. So it was a big deal to go to the Anzac Day parade, and it was a big deal to watch your dad. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Do you do you feel proud or very proud because through that the the mateship they had, they used to carry it over. Like if you're short of wood for your fires and things, all the Anzac blakes would get together and help out, go out the bush and get Bob a load, and then next they go and get someone else a load of wood, and they get to know the RSL uh or hex service fellows because of uh the way they did things for each other, but their mateship continued.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

That makes me tear up. How old were you, and what was the first you heard of Vietnam happening?

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Well, probably 18 or 19 I would have heard about Vietnam through probably the radio firstly, reading the papers and then became a bit more what do you call it interested or more aware because my younger brother Jeffrey, who joined the regular army, went to Vietnam, so I picked up quite a bit. He was there in uh '68.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

How did you communicate?

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Letters.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Letters. Okay, so he wrote to you and told you what was happening.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

He wrote to uh Bob, actually. He wrote to Bob. Mainly Bob, he did it all writing.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Oh. So how often would you get those letters?

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Pretty much weekly, fortnightly.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Wow. And you always wrote b Bob always wrote Bach?

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yes. Yeah. Sort of out and tell us a little bit about what's happening over there.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Yeah. So how long would it take for a letter to get from Kalgoolie to Vietnam, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Week.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Oh, that's crazy.

unknown 6:27

Crazy.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Did you go into a draft into a the birthday lottery? So what's that like?

SPEAKER_01 6:33

So you're sitting there waiting, hoping that you're picked, or the government introduced the Dustinal Service scheme where they wanted a not a lot of people, but they wanted quite a few to disvolster the army numbers, and uh a way of doing that was this ballot they introduced, which worked on birthdays, so everyone who was turning age 20 had to register, but not everyone's birthday came out, so they just called a few birthdays just so they could do it fairly without taking everyone. Yeah. They only wanted what it was, 50,000 or something. So that was what they thought was the uh the fairest way of doing that was on TV.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

TV, so you sat and watched and listened for your number?

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Yes. And uh was followed up by an article in the paper. The birthdays that were chosen in there was sort of at its heyday there was four ballots a year. Wow. When it started there was two half yearly. But then it the more they wanted a few more, so they had a few extra uh ballots. So uh you would be told that year to be called up to start a service the following six months.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

And I was deferred because I was studying countlacy at the time. During that deferment, I thought countcy's not really for me, and uh certain as I uh flunked law A exams uh they were onto me, grabbed me.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

I can't imagine you flunking law. Shocking.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

So it was a matter then of uh preparing to go and uh I was received a letter saying you're a lucky bugger.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Yeah, lucky.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Report to uh jobs and employment office in Kalgouly, whatever that was called in the old days. How old were you? Uh I was probably twenty because I got deferred. February sixty eight is when I left Kalgoolie.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

So you packed you were told what to bring? Well they gave it to you?

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yes, they did give us a list of what to bring, shorts and runners and things like that. But it didn't matter because you're told not to bring too much because uh you will be issued with everything you uh will require for a period of two years in national service.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

So you're sitting on the train, what was it like to say goodbye to Gwen and Bob?

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Oh I was uh I was sort of a little bit excited actually.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah, yeah. Excited.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Excited to uh go because I was in the I had started another job then being uh cadet health inspector, and I was just happy to have a break from that. After what Jeffrey, my brother, had gone through, he survived and it wasn't a sad feeling, it was more of an excitement of what was gonna happen. Oh yeah, okay. But there were the other people that were in the middle of uni and things like that that wouldn't seem happy.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Hmm. So you're on a train, you head to Perth, then what happens from there? Do they pick you up and do you get training?

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Took us up and took us to Caracana.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

How many of you on that train do you think?

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Barracks are from Kalrouli at that stage? It's probably ten plus, probably. Remember, they had four intakes a year. Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

So you've picked up and then you're taken, and you how long did you train for? And what sort of training did you get?

SPEAKER_01 10:36

We uh just waited there at the barracks and they fed us and showed us a movie. Flew overnight. To where? To Puck or to Seymour. Yeah. The airport at Seymour, and then truck to Pacapan, which was 10-15 kilometres out from Seymour. I think it was pretty close. That was the uh two recruit training battalion. Then you'd call basic training or running and grunting, and you know, the corporal telling you what to do, how to do it.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

How to fire a gun, or like how did you learn that? Target practice?

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yes, all that. Ah, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

So you did that all over there?

SPEAKER_01 11:21

That pucker pun the basic training, marching, how to march, how to salute.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Oh. Were you still excited at this point?

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Uh yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Still happy, but the attitude of the uh the corporals wasn't the best at times because they uh they worked on the weakest one, and then if you're a a smarty uh knew it all, then we are you down.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

And what were you? I was in the middle. You're a good boy. I'm a good boy. Good boy. That's not like you.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

That's when I lost my hair at Pacaponio, I just shaved it all off. I had long locks then.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

And how did that feel? Because that's an identity too, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 12:11

It's going from uh long hair to scalp because long hair was in in those days.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

But did you recognise yourself when you saw yourself in the mirror?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

I thought, who's he?

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Who's his handsome blurry?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, he's his handsome hunk.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Wow, that's um yeah, that's a big change too. So you had your training, then what happens?

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Towards the end of what they call the basic training, you then have a, I think, an aptitude test as to uh how good you were, how brainy you were, and that sort of business.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Did you tell them that you failed law? No. No.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Because I was uh doing this cadet health inspector, which is sort of a medical field, I thought I'd continue that in the army. Towards the end of the basic training, you had a choice of what core you wanted to go in. So if you wanted to be a grunt or an infantry man, you put it down. If you want to be signaled, you could put it down, or a draft person or truck driver, you put your preference down, and then your second preference, etc. etc. The army would always say uh, oh yes, we need one of them and another one of them, and another one of them. You get your choice, but if there wasn't that many filling the army uh ranks up, if you had a number one choice of a single man or something like that, and they're short of grunts, they put you in the infantry. So they made up those numbers as best they could and looked after you as much as they could in the one you wanted, the choice you wanted, if it was possible, depending on that of where you went next. So I then, because of the health business, I uh was allocated to the medical corps, and I had then travelled to Hillsville in Victoria for three months to do my medical training, which went through nursing and all that practice. So that's now six months into my career. Wow. After that was finished, you became a medical assistant, and I was then transferred to Ingleburn in New South Wales to Military Hospital, I think it's called. From there I uh found out I was to be posted to Vietnam.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

And what was that feeling like?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Yeah, I this was sort of one of the ones that wanted to go because you did have a choice, you didn't have to go. A lot of people thought that uh we were actually had to go, but deep down uh you could reject it.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

And where would you go if you rejected it?

SPEAKER_01 15:01

You'd stay your time in Australia.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Okay. So you've chosen to go to Vietnam, hey?

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I chose to go and which then told me to a uh I think it was seven days pre-embarkation leave, so they flew me back home and a little bit of holiday and a few oils with me mates. Flew back.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Was it harder at this time to go knowing that you were going for sure?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Quinn, my mother wasn't very happy about it because she thought I should have got out of it because Geoffrey had already been. I'd rather which I could have because he'd already gone.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

And was he back by this point? Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

So uh I decided no, I'd rather go, mainly because of the benefits that were provided at the time.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

So you flew back from Kalgooli, back over east, and then out to Vietnam from there?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

To uh Ingle Bern, then posted to Kanungra for what they call jungle training. Seven days of fitness and weapons and obstacle courses, and in the uh the mountains around Canungra, they uh had a very sort of jungle type terrain which uh we went on uh bivouacs overnight and all that sort of business to acclimatise ourselves to jungle warfare.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

So, in hindsight, did that work?

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Oh good. So you learn a lot that you could put into practice whilst you're over there?

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yes, and then you had all the education on uh diseases and all that sort of business. Yeah. So yeah, but I was uh I uh aircraft to Vietnam. A lot of people went over in Sydney in the ship, only the battalions, because they had to take all their trucks and jeeps and whatever.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

How long's that journey?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Well, I think it was a good week.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

So, in all this training that you had, so you had physical training, we learnt how to aim and shoot a gun, how to deal with the jungle. Did you have any emotional support or training? Like if something bad was to happen, did they tell you this is how you should deal with it? No.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

No. I sort of just flew in in Australia one day and you're in Virginia the next.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Do you think that there was a need for any sort of Yeah, there was a scope as what we have now history uh has shown, especially coming home. We all uh have since learnt because going over it wasn't well it was leaving Australia and then you get off the airport in uh Sargon at Ton Sunet and the heat and all that sort of stuff just hit you, just like flying into Singapore today. I'm imagining the gear's heavy and the everything you're carrying is heavy, and then you're hit with the heat, and then you're away from home and yes, yeah, only the people you've trained with that you know, and then a whole lot others that are already there because a lot worked on rotation. So when your 12 months was up, you were sort of flown home and on the plane coming up with the people that were replacing it, like a flying flock.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Well, it is, I guess. Yeah. So were you excited still at this point, or not now it's reality or?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Oh no, it's uh in the actual base itself. It felt reasonably comfortable, reasonably secure because they did have perimeters that was manned, and you had to do your own patrols outside the wire, which are just overnight ones. They happened every night, and every that was all different, every unit had to participate in that, and that was just a daily basis.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

When did you sort of start seeing what your job was actually going to be?

SPEAKER_01 19:12

In my case, it was when I was posted to a fire support base with the medic. Or I worked with a battalion as a platoon medic. In those cases is when uh you saw the roar and the uh well bit of fighting I wasn't actually head-on, but I was down the back towards the rear in headquarter company, which uh were out the bush, but uh we weren't up on the front like the infantry. Yeah. So sort of there to be called upon. And uh oh, I heard plenty. War from a distance. I was too busy keeping your head down.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yeah, and and who could blame you? I can imagine that you saw you heard, you would smell, you would well, unimaginable things in Vietnam. Was there support? Like on a really bad day when you've just seen the absolute worst of the worst of is there support for you?

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Well, the only support we ever got from someone that was breaking down back in those days would either be me to some of the injured people, or probably the padre, if it's sort of a a mental thing, I think, would be the only advice that was given, or what would they say? Talk to the soldier that's having the problem, but as far as any other stuff now.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Basically push it down, get on with it, yeah, do it. Push it down, do it, and don't complain, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Get the uh get the skirmish over.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Then when you're leaving Vietnam and you're coming home and you've done your job and you've done it really well, is it a relief to come home, Keith, or is it nervousness to come back? Because you're so used to what you're used to, I guess, for five years or what?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

It was uh strange because you'd be, or in my case, you're in Vietnam one day, the last day before you catch the uh plane from uh Neuidat back to Saigon and slept overnight at Camp Alpha, which was an American uh like a holding centre, and then the next morning you get on a uh Aquatus plane, and we had all male stewards in those days. And you flew back in, and they always came in at night so that the uh public went around to demonstrate or carry on. And we got in probably at midnight and normally just came through cussins, make sure you haven't got any knives and guns on you and all that sort of business. And uh there you are, left to your own devices in. For the night.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

They just literally took you off a plane and said, there you go, go back to life.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

You've got accommodation here. Uh uh sort of a motel, and because I was to get the plane to Perth the next morning and then the plane to Karabouli. So once we're out of the airport, we were left to our own devices, whereas people that lived in Sydney, etc. Their parents or their friends were all there to welcome them, but us poor old Way people, probably similar for other states as well. We just had to find a mate and go and have a few beers with, sleep at night, and I slept in then. I missed the plane to Perth, so I had to uh get an afternoon one.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Well, it was a well-deserved sleep, I'm sure. And what was it like to see Gwen again?

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yep, very good. Yeah, they are all out at the airport, including Roger, uh few other mates, and the uh young sisters, Jill and Linda, who I didn't really know that well.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Because you were gone so long. Did you fly home with the same people you went with?

SPEAKER_01 23:16

No. No? No. Uh the ones that I came down from Kalbu in, I never ever saw them again.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Did they pass or you just went different ways?

SPEAKER_01 23:26

I just never could. There's one I would have liked to caught up with. Yeah. But the others I know were around. And the ones we did the basic training with. That's right, the Rod McClellan and uh Brian McGavigan and that crew, 21 pattoon. With the rookies at rookies at Pacapunel, I keep in contact a strong relationship with that first basic training mob. Because there we're all together when we came in the army, and then we're now separate ways, as in some went to infantry, others went to drivers, others went to uh the queue store or whatever. So all that mob we still keep in contact.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Isn't that great? Don't you think that that's it's fantastic for your mental health, for physical health, for friendships and strong connections, and you can talk about things freely because they know what you've been through. Like it's amazing, it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

That's right, yes, yes, and as time's gone on, we've all been mates for 50 odd years now. 1969.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

You all go on a holiday together every year? Yes, yeah, yes, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

That's right. Still keep in contact, and we meet at the local uh hotel in town on the 7th of February, which is the date we all went in, 7th of February 1968, and got out 2nd of February 1970, and we usually have a Christmas function as well, so it's good.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

I just want to, I guess, touch on what do you think could have been done better, like to support soldiers coming back?

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Oh like a debrief of some kind, probably mentally and physically, mentally, definitely, because you have a war zone one day and you're sleeping in your own bed the next.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah, I d I can't even imagine, like there's no in-between, it's one or the other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

That's it. And it was so quick. Yeah. Those that came home on the Sydney, like the big groups.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Well, it would have been better for them, wouldn't it? They had a week to sort of get nothing's better in that situation, but a week to get from where they were back to Australia and they could come down. You were like thrust into airport, airport home.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Shooting at balloons and all this with their rifles at sea. But uh on the way home, yes, they would have had quite a bit of downtime.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

So would you have appreciated more help, more uh guidance as to what to do?

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Because of the problems that ensured.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

So how long were you home before you went to your first ANSAC march?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Uh was probably a number of years, because when we first got home, the RSL didn't really want to know us. They, because it wasn't a war that was actually declared as a war, they didn't recognize us.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

So How did that feel? What? Did that piss you off?

SPEAKER_01 26:47

There was quite a bit of anger, and that's why groups like the Vietnam Veterans Association were formed to, you know, for us. They weren't uh, because the RSL looked down on us, so that's what we had to face when we got back, which was very disappointing.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

That's harsh, that's a kick in the guts for what you've done for your country. That that's unbelievable. So, what made them change their mind?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

I think lobbying gradually after uh a lot of years, and they uh slowly began to recognise us, and then public pressure sort of was brought upon the ARSL to recognise uh every uh service man and woman. We were ended up with the Kiwis. So uh they then relented and uh allowed us to join the RSL, and of course, all the blokes at that time said no stuff yeah, took it up your bum. Yeah, granted, got around and more of the old buggers as they dropped off the perch, etc. We infiltrated, probably taken over now. Yeah, changed a lot.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

So you should. So, how did you personally feel about that snub?

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Yeah, no, I was annoyed, and uh Bob enrolled me at the Boulder RSL and before I left there, and he uh he was on our side. I think a lot of the folks of the Boulder RSL acknowledged us, welcomed us back. But no less many no go.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

That's outrageous. There's no words to even describe what that must have felt like.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Very true.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

After what you've just done, that's unbelievable. Do you have any resentment towards the RSL now? Like looking back?

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Oh, because there's slow thinking there. Yeah. But uh I probably got renewed in the RSL again when uh after Bob died, which he he died pretty early at uh what was he, 69. So it must have been 70 that I marched with the second sixteenth, his unit, on Anzac Day as a guest. One of um Bob's mates by the name of Lou Lethley, and he contacted me and said that they would like me as a guest of honour to lead the second sixteenth on Anzac Day. So that was the first time I wore my medals and Bob's medals. Oh, what a proud day. Down St George's Terrace with the 2nd 16th, and I have a photo that I cherish with that memory.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

And how did that feel? Do it was it just pride?

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Oh. As far as I was concerned.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Oh. Well, that's nice that a resolution came.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

I probably didn't go for another couple of years after that, but just not long after it got into the RSL again. As a what do you call it, participating member? And been probably involved ever since we've moved on, yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

So, what do you remember from your first Anzac March? Do you remember the spectators? Do you remember the noise?

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Well, I was a guest of the second, sixteenth, uh first March being up the front with the flag bearers, that was good. And they must have had in those days a good close to a hundred diggers marching in those days, because uh most of them were probably still alive, but now of course there's uh none left. You only see the friends and relations marching behind the second sixteen. But that coming down the terrace, wearing Bob's battles, made me very proud and honoured to be asked. Yep, so uh that uh that was good, I enjoyed that day. Top of the world.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Top of the world. So that was the first Anzap march, and then we sort of move along to last year's march. What's changed in between?

SPEAKER_01 31:12

I think it's the uh same ideal. Physically the march is a bit shorter, yeah, and they have the provision of motor vehicles and jeeps to carry those that are disabled or just can't do that march anymore, so there's less of them, and even our ranks, the Vietnam ranks, are uh starting to thin nowadays.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

So, over this whole period of Anzac Day marching, we also had the disruption of COVID lockdowns and COVID stopping gatherings for Anzac Day or affecting the numbers that could go. Well what did you think of all that? So, considering the safety of the you know older participants, you can't gather in large groups, and what about the sadness, I guess, for those who may have passed during that time who couldn't get to their last march?

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yes, I've tried and then the idea to have a uh what would we call the driveway service in our own homes, listening to the ABC radio and uh my wife putting a candle out the front and I dressing up in my suit and medals, and uh Roman, my wife, was out there with me, and uh my sister Jules from another suburb came across and joined us out the front, and we'd look up and down the street, and all these little candles were burning, and quite a few people made the effort to uh have the ANZAC or the dawn service as you call it, in our own streets, and we were lucky that a house two down from us. There was a neighbour who played the bagpipes, and he played the last post in Rivelli, and it was very teary when we started up.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

It was very good. It's all sort of the neighbours you'd never seen before.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

So it didn't feel lonely to you, it didn't didn't feel like it you were missing out.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

That was good.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Yeah, that's good feeling. Yeah, oh that's good. So this year you went back to marching after a little break.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Did you notice a decrease in the number of people marching?

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah, first you say marching the end that I parade in Perth for a year a few years after COVID. Bromman and myself actually went to the Dawn service at our local RSL North Beach for a few years, before, as you said, last year until this year. But uh we've been to the main Perth Service, and of course it's through the help of my son.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Yeah, we're gonna bring him in in a minute, but I just want to tell you a story. I don't know if I actually told you. When we were standing looking at everyone marching, and all the cars were coming past, and all the old, you know, everyone was in the cars or the older, older diggers in the cars, and then just off to the edge, there was an older, older man in a like a zimmer frame, and he was just powering along at the slowest snail pace. And he came over to us and like we said, Oh, keep going, keep going, you know, you're doing great. And he just looked at us and I thought, Oh no, what's gonna happen here? And he said, If I hurry, I'll be able to catch them. It was the cutest thing I've ever seen, and the whole crowd just erupted, it was hilarious, and then he was just gone from sight, and I was like, I wonder if he ever caught them, but you know, it was just yeah, it was an amazing time. No, I never heard that from it was with all the cars going past, and then he must have just chosen to walk, but he's obviously been slower and couldn't keep up with whoever else. But so, due to yeah, your health issues just with your legs, your son pushed you in uh a wheelchair this year in front of a huge crowd. So, how did that feel?

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Like there you are marching again, well you technically not marching but marching, to see so many spectators honouring you back and be ignored by the crowd because uh it's a continual applause from the time you start to the time you finish. And uh of course they uh appreciate even all the cadets and the bands and the people from Vietnam, although mostly all the other wars will be finished, but certainly the Afghanistan and Iraq, Lebanon, and uh peacekeepers are still marching today, which is good. It's good to see them.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

So we've just brought in Keith Sun Lee, who was helping his dad march this year uh just for a few health issues. You were pushing your dad in the wheelchair. First of all, welcome.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Thanks, Kelly.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Nice to have you here.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

Nice to be here.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Lee's also my husband, so there's probably more banter there than with his dad. I was just saying Keith describes himself as the luckiest man alive because he's my father-in-law.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Well, I did quite so.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Yeah, you did, it's on it's on record. So, Leigh, this is your second time that you were marching, and the first time you marched, oh the second time, both times with Bob's medals, this year looked a little different and you were helping Keith march. So, what was that experience like for you?

SPEAKER_05 37:00

Yeah, no, it was a great opportunity to to help Dad get back to the march, to the Anzac Day March, which I know he enjoys. It was a weird feeling, I guess, because I'm walking down with Dad and everyone's cheering me. It feels like people are cheering me, but so that was a bit that was a bit uh bit weird, but that aside, I think it was uh an amazing experience and just to have that amount of people who are literally clapping and cheering the whole the whole march. From start to finish. Yeah, start to finish, old, young, everyone's there, looking at you, looking at you in the eye and things like that. So it was very emotional on that side of things. Very appreciative. Yeah, it was great, great, great opportunity to do it, and glad to share it with Dad, and it was, yeah, as I said, it was just Was it what you thought it would be?

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Like was it different? Was it loud? Was it you know what to expect? Didn't know, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:54

Obviously, I've been to a lot of marches and you just stand there and cheer and flap as everyone goes past, but to actually be on the other side of it, and yeah, it was I say full credit to all the people who came out in Perth and around WA, it was just the streets are full.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah, it was it was so full. I was just telling your data story about the little old man with his immerframe who was like, Oh, get them, oh catch up eventually.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

That's the one, yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

But there was another story, like, because when we first got there, we went to drop you off at the drop-off point, but there was a gas leak on St. George's Terrace. So we then had to divert, and it caused like a lot of hassle. And so by the time we delivered you, Keith, to your starting point, and then we went down to try to find somewhere to stand, it was already two people deep the whole way down. So we ended up behind the two people, and halfway through the parade, a lady came up and said to us, I'm so sorry, but I need to squeeze in because my poppy's coming in a in a car. And so we moved, the people in front moved, and the people in front moved, and everyone said, No problem, you get in there and see him. He drove past and he saw her, and they both started crying, and she turned to us and said, He has a memory problem, so every time we see each other, it's like we see each other for the first time. So she was crying, and the lady was like, Oh my gosh, you know, thank you so much for letting me in. And so she disappeared. So the front lady turns to us, me and Lucy, my daughter, and said, When your puppy comes, you let me know, and I will let you in. And so we were like, on it. Here's our puppy, and she's like, No worries, everyone out the way, and in we went. So that's the sort of crowd it was. It was just it was amazing.

SPEAKER_05 39:35

Very appreciative.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

So you when you grew up, you went to a lot of Anzac marches. What was it like watching your dad march? Did you feel pride?

SPEAKER_05 39:42

Yes, very proud. Very proud, and uh would always either go in and watch it or or you'd watch it on the TV as well, and pick him out in the crowd, or pick him out in the march. So, yeah, definitely, definitely proud and great to be able to march with him in Perth and in Geralton, and then we went to a service it was a couple of years ago, North Beach RSL, which was pretty special as well. Dawn service. That was the dawn service, that's right. So the dawn service, and it was cold, it was raining, but it was probably the perfect weather, you know, and again it was packed, people are really.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

So, what does that mean to you that everyone's honouring people like your dad?

SPEAKER_05 40:23

I think it means that people are obviously thankful and they uh that they know what Anzac Day means, and it's great that it just keeps going as well. Yeah, which I'm not sure what what that will look like over the next decade or so.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Did you notice the number of diggers marching had gone down a lot since we were a kid to get last year?

SPEAKER_05 40:46

Yeah, well, yeah, definitely, and obviously ones who, as Dad said, uh strong. Yeah. And maybe it's too much for them to head in in in March and stuff like that. More jeeps and wheelchairs and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

So, as well as the march, then we've also got dawn services happening all around everywhere. So that's a lot of people, isn't it? When you think about it, it's a lot of people, and yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:11

And they I guess some decide to go to the dawn services, some decide to go to the marches, and lots of the suburban marches and dawn services as well. Hopefully they'll still keep going into the city because that's the most special one, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Yeah, it's just hope it continues as a national day of commemoration.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

So, what does it mean to you, like for it to continue? Like to people to know your story and and hear about it.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Um, and uh form part of Australia's history that should be there as a national day, like it has been forever.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Do you hope the younger generation continue to march or uh do we change it? Yes, we march.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yes, I think uh I would encourage them to continue along, as I said before, with uh the younger veterans in Afghanistan and Iraq and those places and all the peacekeepers that have served throughout the world, different conflicts.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

What do you think we can all do to carry on, not just your legacy, but everyone's legacy?

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Keep the flag flying.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Keep the flag flying. Keep the march going. Keep the dawn service going. Yeah. And will we see you march again?

SPEAKER_01 42:43

I'm sure if my son here will push me.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

I think your son there will push you to the day that it ends. What was your favourite bit of it?

SPEAKER_05 42:52

I guess once you once you sort of got into the the rhythm of it and you sort of knew how fast and how slow to go, and then you started to look around and enjoy and then take it all in, and then yeah, got a bit got a bit well. Glad I had the sunnies on, got a bit emotional, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Yeah, yeah. Did you get emotional?

SPEAKER_05 43:10

I always have a small tear.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

You do?

SPEAKER_05 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:15

Yeah, it must be a whole different level when it's actually you. You that was the the one, one of the ones?

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Yes, well it certainly helps to take away that you're not the only one there. There's quite a few others that have done the same. They're all being recognised.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Because you really have, like, you know, obviously not given your physical life to Vietnam, but like, all that you are, I guess, now has made up that. You know, is made up by that everything that happened has influenced your whole life, and that deserves to be honoured.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Yes, and um the mental scars and the the met that's what I mean. That is a good thing. They've made a big improvement since Viet Dam with all the rehab practices, resettling in jobs and things like that after they get out of the service.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Yeah, what a shame that wasn't around for you. Yeah. That's such a shame. But do you think you help like your work with Legacy helps to heal a few wounds that you're helping others? It does. Yeah. So t just tell us quickly what you what you do, because it's quite amazing.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

My role in Legacy can be varied, but the major one is to go and make first contact with the widow of a deceased veteran and sort of break the ice by offering what legacy can do for her, which is support with uh emotional, and we can use all the uh knowledge we know or have acquired to get her through the red tape in the systems to get more widows' pensions and uh support in that sort of area.

SPEAKER_05 45:11

Lacey's essentially for widows. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

There may there were women that uh did die because of uh war service as well, there's a few of those, and a lot to do with the kids that lose their fathers after the war.

SPEAKER_05 45:28

How many you go when you do your morning teas, and how many are there, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 45:32

My little group that I run every Thursday. It was 80 on Heyday when I started. We've got about 18 to 20 that meet regularly nowadays, our area, holding districts. There's still others around southern suburbs, eastern suburbs, etc.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Well, that's amazing that you do that for the community.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

That's my volunteer work.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

It's your legacy.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

It's a legacy.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Thank you for joining us, and thank you for sharing. And I'm sure there's a lot of people that will love to hear your story. Thank you, listeners.

SPEAKER_04 46:09

Goodbye. If you would like more information about how to deal with the emotional pain of grief, identify ways to cope, or would like to receive support to adjust to a life without your loved one, Christy is available for individual, family, or group sessions. Please visit thegriefocean.com.au. If listening to any of the content has triggered you, please contact Lifeline on 13 11 14.