From Percs to Basket: How a Serial Builder Is Reinventing Onchain Tools with Chinmay

POAP Instructions

This week we dive deep into the world of onchain entrepreneurship with Chinmay, a serial builder and the creator behind Percs and Basket. Chinmay opens up about his journey from open source developer to startup founder, sharing the highs and lows—from landing big-name clients like Budweiser and Playboy, to weathering bear markets and pivoting products when the time is right.

We explore Chinmay’s latest venture, Basket—a permissionless tool that lets users create and share baskets of tokens, making it easier than ever for others to copy trade and diversify into meme coins and more. Chinmay sheds light on the challenges of finding product-market fit, the importance of timing in crypto, and the lessons he’s learned about building fast, listening to users, and navigating regulatory ambiguity.

Together, we unpack deeper questions about what really belongs on the blockchain, ownership versus speculation, and how the future of onchain social apps might look—plus, some candid reflections on community, experimentation, and even favorite snacks. Whether you’re an avid builder, a memecoin degen, or just curious about how the best crypto products are made behind the scenes, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

00:00 From Developer to Startup Builder

05:55 Adapting to the Bear Market

14:33 Uber Earnings-Based Micro Loans

17:23 Newsletter Credibility and Opt-In Strategy

23:25 "Meme Coin Investment Strategy"

32:43 Avoiding Over-Preparedness Mistakes

38:03 Enhancing User Purchase Urgency

42:30 "On-Chain Discoverability Challenges"

44:58 Banker App's Platform Strategy

53:19 Token Ownership Visualization Update

59:00 "Web3 Empowers Beyond Web2 Limits"

01:03:36 "Special Treat's Powerful Impact"

Transcript

0:00

For the lack of better words, I was worried about going to jail because there is so much uncertainty going on and with kids with family, I don't want to do anything wrong legally, blah, blah, blah. And. Yep. Welcome back to another episode of behind the Screen with Gramaho, the podcast where we unravel the untold stories of the best on chain builders and creators. I'm your host, Gramaho, an avid crypto enthusiast that's been in the space since 2012. Yeah. So this week's episode, episode 25. Super excited about this milestone. I sat down with Chimay, who is the builder and creator of Perks, which is a front end to bringing your Shopify store on chain. And also most recently launched Basket, which is kind of like a tool that you can create a basket of tokens. And so when you cast about or tweet about it, people can easily just buy all the same positions that you did. So it's like a copy trading position. Really cool stuff with some fun mechanics, all permissionless. But yeah, Chime is a serial builder kind of in the space. Met him at Farcon recently. It was a pleasure kind of meeting him in person, but also talking with him after the fact. So I hope you do enjoy this episode. Let's dive in. Yeah, let's hop in, man. So first let's start off for anyone that doesn't know who you are, who is Chinmay and Dox yourself as much. As you at seem like yeah, no, I'm Dox. Like I'm Chinmay everywhere. That's my real first name, legal first name. So yeah. Plus it's not that super common. It's common but it's not super common. So people will be able to find me very easily. So I'm docs myself. I'm not worried about that but my background, I come from a development background. I used to code back in 2010 in open source. I got some of the good experience with Mozilla as an open source contributor. They never paid me. Let me put it this way, I was never an employee but they gave me a lot of experience in terms of code building and stuff. After that, a bunch of startup as a junior developer, sometimes as a founder, sometimes lucky with minor exit, sometimes unlucky with like just losing three years of my life. That's like a normal game with startups, right? So have been done that, all of it. And for the last four years have been building Perks, which is a marketing tools and software company for on chain creators. And I think it the product has reached Its ceiling. So. So spinning it out for another product called Basket, which is also in the blockchain space, specifically in the defi space. We have defi experience prior to Perk so we are just like because of the marker circumstances, I think it's a perfect time to build Defi product. So we are going in that direction. But yeah, at heart still a coder. But because the team has a lot of coders now, like we have like four to five other people who can code better than me. So I'm the sales guy now. Nice. As simple as that. That's awesome. I mean it's good. At least you did a little bit of coding so you understand their pain points and can help out either. I was a hardcore coder for 10 years and I still prefer to code over sales. We can talk into philosophy behind that, but that's a different story for another day. Unless that's what you want to showcase to your audience. But yeah, I prefer coding over sales. It's just that in the team sales is more required. So that's what I'm gonna do. Yeah. So is is perks? Because I know for a while when I was writing my newsletter more actively that the space of like the Shopify, like the Shopify front end, like on chain version of that, like there was warp chop and then you guys. Yeah. It was seemed kind of competitive. There was like another company too. I forget which one, but like Slice, Slice is another one. But Slice is almost like a full on replacement almost of like it doesn't need Shopify as a back end to. To do it. Yeah. So like are you, is perks like in a stable position where you're just like not investing more R and D into it or is it like. Yeah, so let me give like double click on Perks a little bit. Right. So Perks started when some of my friends who was working at Shopify, they reached out and said, Chinmay, you're running an agency right now there is an opportunity where some brands wants to go live with their NFT products on Shopify. And I wanted to get into product opportunities as well myself. So I talked to the brands they introduced me and then we build NFT sales and token gating solutions for those companies. And those companies were Budweiser, Playboy, Superplastic and some amazing other names. So that's how we got started with the NFT world in Shopify. We continued doing so successfully for next 12 to 18 months. Then the bear market hit. Meanwhile we raised funds so we actually planned for the bear market. So when the bear market hit, we went back to the drawing board and say hey, where do we want to diversify? We're stuck by the creators. And then we started looking into messaging protocols like XMTP and forecaster APIs at the same time frames and those opportunities. So we expanded the product line to few features where creators can multiple mass DMs to their followers in the on chain space and some few forecaster frames creation and everything around that. I think we have reached at the ceiling of that product where market needs to catch up before we build more features. Because it's a very feature rich product already. Like you can send a welcome message automation. When somebody follows you, they get a message. You can already send bulk messages to all your audience literally within a few clicks. You can upload a list of addresses and it will send you XMTP messages as well. So it's a very feature rich product already. Now it's time for market to catch up before we do anything else. So we're putting it into maintenance mode and because we are a VC funded company we need to keep taking bigger shots than what is available and. And that's what basket is. Got it. Okay. Yeah, that makes more sense. And I agree. I used perks. It's really good actually someone recently was. So right now obviously mini apps is the new hop thing but obviously v1 frames were also really good in my opinion. Thank you. Yeah, we got solid conversion. Oh my God. We were so conversion focused that we were measuring DM conversions. DM conversions were like six to seven times better if I remember stats correctly than regular email newsletters. And frame conversion was great as well when we had automatically. We still do actually frames v1 automatically generator where people can, where creators can put out a frame saying that opt in to start a newsletter or something and people would see that post in their feed and they click. And then now the opt in has happened already. So we had like those conversion frames and those were doing really well. Again the problem is I think not with the product or feature or even creators. It's just the market is not mature enough where people can put a price tag to it. So because there is no dollar value attached to it, I don't think I deserve to charge for that product and features right now. So that's the problem. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah, I'm hoping hopefully because we're also losing a ton of like as a creator like we're losing a lot of ways to like some of these automation like like tools for content creators. So like yeah like you said, like, if someone follows you, like it sends you a DC or DirectCast or even like upload a list and you can send a message to people. Like, I know Bellow used to do that, but I think Bellow pivoting. So, like, yeah, we're losing. We're losing. Bellow has basically moved away from product to services company, if I remember correctly, where they're more focused on creating their cohort based on chain creator onboarding, which is perfect. I think I looked up to Balo in terms of their maturity on the marketing side. Because I come from the builder side, because I come from the coding side. I don't have background into how marketers think. And I actually learned a lot by listening to Bellow's podcast and how marketers think about it. We built the product before and I think our product is a little better. But at the same time, I think that maturity and thought process was way better than ours. Yeah, but you guys are surviving. Like you said, you guys are in maintenance mode right now. So I feel like that's like the game that. I mean, it's still a great product. Like you said, it still works really well. Like, I literally used. I went to go check my V1 frame that I built like a while back and. It makes me so happy, man. Which is great. I'm happy. Like, I know they're. I know they're thinking about deprecating and stuff. Like, that's out of your control. Like, yeah, yeah. At that time we'll just remove the face button. Yeah. Like, it was just kind of funny. Like I went back and I was, damn, this still. I'm like, this thing still still works. It's great. Yeah. No, I think people build some amazing code and that's why I'm not a coder anymore, because the people better code than me. Let's see. Yeah. So I actually, I'm going to pivot a little bit, but we'll come back to some of like the challenges you guys are facing right now and basket as well. But I wanted to get your opinion on this because I feel like I have this opinion as well sometimes where early on and I'll get some background. So this is like an interview you had with bfg. Yeah. And it's like a follow up to that and I'll link it for everybody in the show notes so they can go listen to it as well. But I know like when we first got started with like crypto and consumer crypto apps, it was like the idea was basically like, okay, put instagram but put it on the blockchain. It was always like this next idea and put it on the blockchain. And then I remember, I'm like. For a while I was like, what is the benefit of having it on a decentralized platform where sometimes it could go slow? Because I think people forget before L2 is on ETH and. And Solana. Yeah, you know, things, things are slow. Like I've. I've 80 minute finality times or 6 minutes or 8 minutes finality time. And that's a lot for most things. Yeah. Like I, I've bought coffee with bitcoin before, like a long time ago, like 10 years ago. And yeah, it was like a. I had to wait like for 10 minutes before they let me go. Exactly. And you must have paid like half a dollar or something in gas fees to get that like $2 coffee, right? Correct. Yeah, don't even remind me. It's probably worth a lot more now, but. Absolutely. So long winded way of saying. I know in that interview you were saying that there's just certain apps that should not be built on the blockchain. Yeah. Maybe you have more benefits of it just sitting on a AWS stack or just like the Web2 rails. Absolutely. You don't have to name names if you don't want. But what is an example of something that you're like, I still don't understand why this has to be on crypto. Or do you have that? Has that changed for you like recently? So I think any application that does not benefit from a perspective of ownership should not be on blockchain. Like if I, for example, like I'll just give you like a last step that I used. Right. Like my son goes to school and they have an app where teachers would send pictures of my kid to me after every couple of days whenever they feel like. And then it's a private app where I log in and stuff like that. This does not need to be on chain. What's the point of being this on chain? Like, like it's not about doxxing my son or anything. It's more about like I'm not going to convert that into NFT and coin it. Right. Like there is no value in ownership. The data economy itself is good enough value or not good enough. That's the only value here. The ownership is not really the value here. So that doesn't need to be on chain. Like Uber in its current state does not need to be on chain. What will need to be on chain? There are a couple of iterations of that. But I don't see there is any ownership reasons to be for Uber to at this point in time be on chain. Like yeah, you can put loyalty points on chain. You can put like user registration on chain with ZKPs. So there are ways to do it. But is this a current problem? I don't see it yet. Unless somebody's saying that, hey, I have been an Uber driver for like let's say five years and I want to transfer my identity and leverage that to get a mortgage loan at this financial institution and that data sharing happens. And I'm like, that is supposed to be on blockchain. But those use cases are not as much explored. I actually know a few companies who actually do the API integration with Uber and they will identify how much money you made for the last five years. And they do micro loans. The micro loans are like $10,000, $5,000 kind of loans and not more than that. But that basically says that hey, you have been generating $10,000 every month through Uber means you are good enough for 5,000,$10,000 on a monthly basis. And that just acts as like a major data point. Not the only data point, but one data point and you put something else as collateral. So point is that yes, you can have that kind of thing on chain, but not right now. Especially the first example that I gave between the app for parents and teachers to communicate about their kids. I don't see a reason to be on chain at all. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think if anything you would want more like end to end encrypted, like more privacy. Yeah, more privacy or anything. I guess that lead me to another follow up question then. So there are examples, there are examples of consumer apps that we have now in crypto where they're on crypto but the ownership is not your ownership. So it's a shared contract. Which one? Paragraphs. An example. Fair. That's actually a very good example. Yes, yes. Yeah. Paragraph. You don't like the NFTs that you meant aren't associated with your actual specific ENs. So if you go to my Gramaho ETH on OpenSea you can't see my paragraph posts. You can see my mirror posts, but you can't see my paragraph posts. It's like a different method of. It's like a shared contract. Old school. OpenSea used to be like that too and rarible as well. You would upload NFTs and it was on a shared contract versus on manifold where you, you own the contract. So I guess what does that say about those kind of apps? So again I am a believer. Like for example, I'm a believer of like any and all the experiments should be conducted as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Right? And these apps are not hurting anyone. So I think it deserves to exist. Now it's up to the consumers, it's up to the founders, it's up to somebody, whoever is investor, is all of those folks to decide whether that app should be flourishing or not. So who am I to judge whether that experiment should be conducted or not? So I don't have any opinions in that regards. Now if you ask me how to improve it, I have 10,000 opinions and one of the opinions exactly what you just said. I think the relationship should be online. I should be able to bring my credibility from forecasters to this newsletter and anyone who is already on paragraph, who is my follower should automatically be converted into my newsletter opt in because they follow me on forecast. That means also they would not want to hear from me for the long term posts and everything like that. Or, or they should at least receive a notification from my end and say that would you also like to hear this from me? And it's a one click experiment that they can opt into long form post that I'm about to have as a writer. So I think those experiments and experiences to be built have, should be in my opinion. Will it work? I don't know. I'm not smart enough to answer that. There are going to be, there is always going to be some level of niche with some level of execution that, that the product will find survivability whether it's five founders, two founders, one founder or somebody doing it part time. So that's where my brain is going. Should they exist? Absolutely, yes. Yeah, definitely. Would I change something a lot? Yes. Yeah, yeah, I feel that, yeah, same. And they've heard that from me before because that's like one of my biggest, one of my biggest complaints. But after the acquisition I think they kind of lost the track. Right. Like that's what it feels like. Remember that merger happened between paragraph and I forgot the name of the second one. Mirror. Mirror. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So when the merger happened it felt like I'm like why are these two people getting married? This is not going to help and it's going to add more work on both side. And I haven't seen a significant feature coming out of paragraph since merger. I may come across as like quite bold and probably wrong in this case, but I have, I think that was the Peak paragraph for me. Yeah, they, they rolled out like a new user. They were working like on the UI UX a lot more so. And I know they rolled out some new visuals, like a new logo and stuff like that. So I'm hoping like we're, we're on the, around the corner from seeing a little bit more from them. I mean I, I definitely gave them like a suggestion of like, you know how tipping right now on Forecaster is like kind of popular. Yeah. You know the, the feature that I was kind of asking for as something that's like different from web2 but also like kind of cool. Would be like if you spent like two, three minutes reading my article, it automatically tips. It automatically would tip you, you know, love it. You know, like at the, in one week, you know, tell me like, hey, these are the people that spent the most time reading your, your work. And then you're like. And then you know, it's kind of like forecasters. So it's like, do you want to tip them? Yeah, I have to, you know, but like if it, yeah, just, just send. The people DM or notification on like 2pm Tuesdays and then just say like I'll actually love that idea. They should build it. That is actually going to be a very useful idea. Yeah. And obviously like people can game it and stuff. You know, like someone could just leave the thing open like blah, blah, blah. Like it's up to you to kind of like figure it out. And if it's like a dollar or whatever, like I don't, I don't know. Some material amount of money. Yeah. And I was like, you know, that's not for me to figure out. I was just like, seems like a differentiating idea from like substack and all these other tools. And there are actually some other Web3 publishing platforms that tell you how much. I forget the name of it, but it's like minutes or seconds. I think I forgot the name of it. But yeah, they track how long like people are like reading. Yeah, yeah. And the best part about crypto in this case is we can do micro payments like no other. Right. That's the best part about it. Like for example, in the traditional world if somebody used to send $3, they'll spend like$0.30 plus 3% to make it happen. Right now, even if you want to send a $1, it's $0.01 or less than that. Like if you do it mass like then you can do hundred of them in one cent. So point is, I think that's a good feature. It Actually emphasizes the value of building paragraph on. On a crypto rail. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, you know, mention it, we'll see if it happens. I think that was like a week or two ago when I said that. Maybe longer, but this is solid. So going back to you guys, so I think you mentioned some of the challenges that you're facing on the perk side. Not necessarily a challenge, but you know, more like challenge in the market and waiting for it to catch up. What, what's the, what are some of the challenges you're facing now with. With basket and if you could actually give a background of what basket is. Yeah, absolutely. So. So I think the market is not mature and I think I've made that mistake multiple times and I'm trying to be better at this now, which is being too early is equally being wrong. So I have learned that lesson and I'm trying to build products that are already can be in demand. At least it solves the problem current that people are currently having. So with that in mind, in December we started looking at a couple other ideas. Like one idea was actually exactly what Bracke agent is but for existing sports. So pick any sport and people can do their short term prediction markets based on live Oracle streams. So that's one way we were looking at it. Another idea that we were looking at baskets as in like index funds. And when we looked at index funds we realized that it's an opportunity but it's already been attempted and people are not getting it. So for example, back in 2019 something called Crypto20 was launched and 2022 or something it got shut down. I think at that time it was built on top of Ethereum and the gas fees would have just killed the product regardless because it's super hard finding on chain liquidity is impossible. So many other problems that goes with it. So that's one. Then came Index Co op or Index Coup or Index Co Op. They gained a lot of traction in the first couple of weeks and then they drop off. And the third is Reserve.org they also have a very good product as well. So there are competitors who are doing it. We did like a solid competition analysis around this and then realized that none of this actually allow creators like you and me to create our own basket of tokens based on our research and allow me to earn fees on a regular basis. So when basically when we came up with this idea we were like okay, let's do this. Then we started talking to the trader personality and like different personalities in crypto and see what kind of investments they want to make with meme coins. Because again, we want to stick to meme coins in the facilitation because meme coins are not financial assets. So we started thinking from that perspective and we asked meme coin degens or investors, like, what do they think? And they are like, look, if somebody has done the research, then instead of taking one shot at one token, I would spread it out between multiple tokens and see which one would rise. And we are like, okay, that's what basket is, I think, a diversification of taking shots. That's what we started building. This is like in late January, early February. This is the early lesson that we had. So we started building the product around that. At the same time, we learned that most index funds that are launched so far by other competitors, they have traction in the first couple of weeks and then die out. And the reason behind that is freshness, because there is so many products and tokens and everything happens in crypto that a basket that is not evolving super fast is going to lose the attention of folks. So the two ways to solve it, one is to create a very dynamic basket that is changing every day, every week. Or another way to do it is allowing people to create as many baskets as easily as possible. So we went with the second route where people like you and me can create basket in literally a matter of seconds and launch it out and then go from there. So with that particular ease of creation, within first few weeks we got more than 500 baskets created by people, which was a huge success. We ran some contests, people created baskets. And out of that, I think 8200 baskets are high quality baskets. Like, I cannot speak for all of them,

but I think we have that standard 20: 25:44

80 ratio still surviving where 20% content is valuable, Way more valuable than the rest of the 80% content. So that's there. And now we are in the process of helping folks discover those baskets in multiple formats through notifications, through their feed, through their DMs, giving them updates on it so people can find out star certain baskets and get updates on it before they decide to purchase. Like how many times people need to get that notification for the basket before they ape into that basket. These are the calculations that we are doing and at the same time what kind of information they need in order to purchase a basket. So this is the process that we are in. We have had like 2, 3 eth worth of volume through our basket. We need 200 exit before we can basically commit to more features. So we are in this process Right now we have still, like lots of build to go. 2, 3 eth of transaction proves that there is value to this. We still have to figure out, like, is it really a product or a project which is going to die down? So that's the phase we are in and we need to figure out the next steps. Got it. Yeah, that makes sense. It's like that sustainable growth and like getting it to like the next phase, you know, like you. Yeah, that's always like that tough part, but Exactly. It's like finding product market fit. I think we are in the cycle of finding product market fit where I would say we have like 10, 20% done, but 80 still is outstanding. Yeah. Do you. Let me see. What was the question I was gonna ask you? I like the relaxed nature of this podcast, by the way. I love it. Yeah, I'm like thinking about it, like, do you have any concerns on like. Because like the legal person to me is like, it sounds like an index fund, obviously. Do you have any concerns around kind of like someone being like, you know, this is like. So we are focused on meme tokens mostly right now. So Meme coins are categorically considered not security now. So I'm not worried about it. What people build out of that is something out of my question as well. Like if I build a gun, I can't really control how people use it. Everything around that. Right. Like the same logic. And right now they are immutable smart contracts. So once we deploy, we don't know. Again, this is not a legal opinion or defense or anything. It's just that I'm more worried about, do people really want it? Let's build something people want and then we can get into other problems afterwards. So that's the goal that we're going to go and explore first. Our current stance is as simple as that. Meme coins are not security and other tokens are definitely. It comes into that speculation basket, which is, in my opinion, Meme coins as well. So people like, this is not a financial product that we are offering by any stretch of imagination. Yeah, yeah, definitely. The other question, actually, that triggered finally the one that I had in mind. This is all theoretical, but. So let's say basket works with your Warpcaster wallet, right? Your warplit. Yes, it does. Okay, cool. So my thinking is let's say the forecaster wallet, because we're. They're testing now Monad and so the Ethereum side of things are like covered. But there's been a lot of Solana commentary on Farcaster that I'd say, let's say it supports Solana in the future, like the wallet, would you be able to build basically a basket that includes meme tokens on base? Meme tokens on Solana from there pretty easily. Oh yeah, yeah. We are based on base right now. So let me start with that. We would be able to. That's not the hard part. The real challenge comes from the liquidity sourcing. So which decentralized exchange launched on that particular L1 or L2 that is EVM compatible that we can source the tokens from? Like, as long as we know how to buy and sell token on that particular L1, I think we are good. Okay, but you get the gist. Yeah, I get the gist. Yeah. Because I think that would be really cool because like, I feel like obviously Solana has deep liquidity when it comes to meme tokens. Yes. Compared to base, Solana is not evm. So we are not really on Solana. Correct. Right. Like, we are sticking to evm, at least for now, because our thesis is very simple. Like if we can't get the product to work in base, which has good enough. I'm not saying it's the best meme COIN ecosystem. I think Solana is the best meme COIN ecosystem, hands down. Whether meme COIN ecosystem is valuable or not, that's a separate question. I'm not going to go there. But Meme Coin ecosystem by Solana is better than base. However, base has a good sizable meme COIN ecosystem. So if we can't make it work in base, there is no chance in hell that we can make it work in Solana. So we are not even thinking about migration to Solana because that will be a whole new blockchain, whole new coding language, whole new integrations, whole new wallet infrastructure and everything around that. So sticking to base because it's evm, I think there is a lot of exploration to be done before we decide to move to any other chain. Any other non EVM chain. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously rolling out to like, I don't know, anime from Azuki, which is arbitrary. That would be pretty straightforward. Just because it's all. Yeah, it's op stack. So I'm sure there's still some work, but I'm sure it's very quickly. Yeah, the work, like again, work is probably. That's why my team hates me. But I was about to just throw a timeline there, so I'll shut up. But why? It is like the work is not the problem. It's more about like do we have enough components that are needed in order to go live there. But I said like liquidity, sourcing, decentralized exchanges and is there any consumer demand around that in order to make it happen? If both are there, launching other EVM chains is not the. It's a time problem. It's not the complexity problem, if you know what I mean. Right. Like it could be two months, three months, six months or less or more. But the point I'm trying to say is that it's not a technical problem, it's the other problems. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah. What lessons are you applying from perks to basketball, if there are any. So I'm trying to not build everything before going live. I think I made a lot of mistakes around products where we had like for some new features we had three month build cycles. Technically they were needed but I think we could have broken it down to like two to four week cycles and then received feedback earlier. The second one is like from the. I think this is a personal lesson where I was very much immersed in Defi before I started Perks and I chickened out, I'm not gonna lie. Like I chickened out by staying away from defi because I was, for the lack of better words, I was worried about going to jail because there is so much uncertainty going on and with kids, with family, I don't want to do anything wrong legally, blah blah blah. And third, I was seeing myself as like I'm not gonna play in speculation. I'm better than other people. Like seeing myself like placing myself on like this white ivory tower and then boom. Like that was completely wrong. I think it's about ownership, it's more about what people want. And with that I think I self corrected myself and saying look, I think I should be more open about more defi. There is more regulation, clarity at least Meme coins and certain coins that are completely speculative, they are definitely not a security based on the current security infrastructure. So based on that I'm open to it. And my personal lesson of like I'm going to stay like I'll stay away from speculation game. I think that's what people want, that's what we built. So I got adapted to that mindset a little bit more things that I did wrong in products, I'm just making sure that I can avoid it. Yeah, that makes sense. Getting feedback early is always good. Yeah, exactly. Not sure it's gonna like come to the conclusion faster, but it definitely feels like you're iterating faster. Right. Like there are times when I'M like, shit, I knew that this is gonna be the feedback. Why did you even put this as a, as a, as a milestone? Because I know that this would not work without this other two, three features. So at that time I would have, I should have taken longer because each cycle itself has its own work that is associated with it. We should have been able to in aggregate like spend 20, 30% time less in order to get some of the features out. And three month cycle is not still a big cycle. Right? Like we're not taking six months, 12 month cycle. Like we are shipping fast. We are deploying features every two, three weeks. Yeah, I'm talking about like a major feature cycle. Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, that isn't that long at all. Yeah, that's some good. Yeah, this is some of the things. Yeah, no, definitely it's some good lessons, man. Especially like in the, in the meme coin token world. Things move very quickly. A lot. Right. Like just see what happens. Yesterday Ethereum like acted like a meme coin. Yeah, I know, right? It's like where were you like six months ago when everyone was getting a heart attack and getting depressed? Right? I know man. It's the same fundamentals. Nothing has changed. Nothing has changed other than like a new, of course, like this new release. But people knew this release as these people say they're gonna release and they release it. So I don't think that is a new fundamental shift. No, I don't think it has do with Petra or whatever that's. Yeah, I don't think it's Petra. I'd be shocked. I think it's a new paper. It's a good connection to New Pope has a new. Good connection with the new telephone line, with the. God. I'm so sorry, I'm making a religious joke. I should stay away from that. Yeah. What's, what's your North Star right now? Like what's the KPI that you're shooting for in basket? Like more index usage. Yeah. More volume. Like I think it's the only number that matters at the end. So everything else helps with this number. And not going to lie, like for the last couple of weeks we have been not able to grow that much. We know why it's not happening, but we don't know how to fix it. Like there are lots of ifs and buts and I think there are lots of table stake features that need to be added before we can do it. Or at least that's what I'm telling myself. Yeah. Do you think it's like partly like sharing, like, you know, like mind share. Like it's kind of like you roll it out, you cast. I've been fortunate with the mindshare problem because again, we learned those lessons earlier last year when we build the movie game just for fun, right? If we can send a reminder to the users, they'll check things out. Especially in Farcaster. So we don't send people notifications that often. We send like two or three notifications on a weekly basis. And every single time we send something, people click and check it out. Not all of it, but we have like a 30% conversion rate and that list is around thousand people. So if 300 people are clicking and checking things out, we can capture that mindset or react like we can bring them back anytime we want to run a test. So I don't think it's a mindshare problem at this point in time. I think it's more about what creates the urgency in the user to purchase something is a basket, I mean, and what data they need, what information they need. How can we trigger the urgency and everything around that. And the second piece is once you build a product, as in like once they. Once someone buys the basket, how are we presenting that? This is how much value you created. And losing money can still be valuable because people can find information on like, hey, you lost this 20 bucks or you lost this 30 bucks, right? It's not only positive, but like, that is the value creation part, I think that is missing in terms of how much the basket has moved since you purchased. So I think that value capture piece is not there. And because of that, also value providing piece is not there. And because of that, we don't have much use it. So this is a chicken and egg situation. Until you prove value, people are not going to try it. But until they try it, they're not going to get value. We need to figure out how to crack this open. Once we do it, I think it's going to be a little simpler because then you can measure the inflows and outflows and then turn the knobs. Right now I think the entire jukebox is missing. So if the whole jukebox is missing, then you don't have knobs yet. We don't have knobs yet to turn for the up and down or equalizer. Why am I saying jukebox equalizer? I mean, sorry. No, I know. I followed what you were saying. Although every like Gen Z person's like, what the hell is this guy talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's true. That's true. In Renamp, there were bars that you could like up and down. They have no idea. We. We definitely need the Renamp app. A theme that will be cool. I. I agree. Did you see that? That frame, that was like ipod. That was super dope. No, I haven't seen it. Oh, I'll have to send it to you after. It was like, share it again. Your timeline. Tag me. It's like a. Literally, like the user interface is just like an old ipod. Like you. Ooh, the Nano. The. The square one. The square one. It's a really old one too. Yeah, that's good. I remember like, my brother gifted me that when he got the first job in Canada and he gifted me that ipod. I think I smashed it by mistake or something. But yeah, no, that. That was a very high quality built product. Oh my God. For that eight time. That was a very high quality product. I fully agree. Like, I don't have phones that high quality this days. No, no, no, those things were tanks, like. Yeah, exactly. Those were tanks. Yeah. I, I gotta give you actually a pretty funny story about that. Like, I had mine in my drawer for 20, 25, like 12, 12 years. It was just sitting in my drawer. Not. Didn't touch it, didn't do anything. Just connected it. Like recently charged. It still worked. That's the beauty, right? Like, the consumer electronics at that time was so good. And there is a story behind that. Do you know, like, I think the cars built in 1990 were better than cars built in 2000 because the cars built in 1990 were so good that people didn't really change it after like 200, 300 miles. And so they, they purposefully depreciated the quality so that people would cycle through cars in like eight to 10 years. So, like, older cars were like tanks. They thought they were needed to be tanks and people built tanks. That's literally it. Yeah. Like Land cruisers from the 90s are indestructible. Exactly, exactly. Like, I had a Toyota, not Toyota, sorry, Honda Accord from 1993. And I was using it in 2007 with family. I was using it my dad's car, by the way. So my dad was using it and I was just a driver. But oh my God, the engine and everything interior sucked. We had scratches and everything. Who cares? But the engine and the, the quality of just. It's going through A to B. Perfect. We bought another car and that car depreciated within five years. Worse than the Honda Accord. Yeah, yeah. See, so I, I Heard a little bit of something what you were saying earlier. Like obviously since it's like permissionless, there's a ton that could be built where you, I think you hit 5,000, you already might have surpassed it or you're approaching it. But like most things on chain, where's your mind in terms of discoverability of the best performing baskets? Or like you said even sometimes seeing the losses too as well. Where's your mind around that? Because I know now you actually have a website. You can actually build the basket on the website too versus casting from it. Yeah, so we have a mini app for creation of baskets and the agent. We don't have the website creation part yet by itself. We are working on it actually as we speak. But you're right, what we have learned right now and surprisingly in three to four, especially in the last two, three months when the market was going down holding, it was better than a basket. Not going to lie. But this is an anti reason basically to use basket. Right? Don't use basket if you want to just hodl. If you're hodling, use Ethereum, use Bitcoin. That's what you hodl. So what we learned was this is trade. People use this for trading and trading only. And if that's the case then with yesterday's bull market, push back. Like push back as back into the action. I think there are going to be a lot of baskets that will perform way better. Like there is a degen basket, that is Forecaster index basket. There are a few others, those will perform better than ETH or BTC on a regular basis. Like of course it's hard to beat what ETH did yesterday, but that's my theory around it at least. Got it. Yeah. I mean that money should make its way back to meme coins hopefully. Exactly right. Like rotation. Like people made money in bitcoin, it goes into other like more legitimate altcoins and then from that it goes to less and less cycle. Yeah, I know something that like was going on pretty recently with and I only bring this up because I, I, I just saw, I got Twitter notifications but like are there any plans? Okay, so like banker started on Farcaster, you know and then like yeah, they moved to X and now you can create or interact with Banker on X. I know, I know the X APIs suck and expensive and everything but are there, what's your, what like where's your mind on that? Like do you, do you see that as kind of like a playbook or like something obviously like if the volume, if the Volume picks up. Like you said it like that. That could be a knob for you guys, like where you're like, let's move so you can create a basket in Twitter. You know, so. So our theory is, yes, we will need to go on Twitter. Absolutely. Because that's where 95% of the audience is. However, I don't think that if we can make a product not work in Farcaster, then it will certainly work in Twitter. I don't think that's possible. Like, it's not about that. Like, I think we have more EVM density or EVM user density or base user density on Forecaster. Also, at the same time we have all the tools like notifications and others on Foraster. If we cannot make the product work inside Farcaster, there are pretty much no chances of that it will work outside. So we have to perfect the product on Forecaster. That's the Farcaster, in my opinion is the best sandbox for EVM builders right now, period. Like literally the best sandbox. Once we finish, once we have like some more successes inside and the flywheel is moving at a consistent pace where or predictable space, we will be moving to Twitter. Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, I agree. You gotta, you gotta nail Farcaster. Dime. Yeah. If you can make it work here, then there is like, yeah, I think that the product is not useful. True, true. Foreign. Let's take a quick break. I hope you're enjoying the episode. This episode was made possible with the support of my premium subscribers, Seattle Dog, Mike, Vinyls, Nonlinear and Brennan. Thanks again for all your support. Really appreciate it. If you'd like to receive exclusive drops access to token gated content, make sure to subscribe to my hyper sub. I'm also doing a raffle right now for this 25th episode. I'll have more like descriptions down below, but essentially if you send 50 USDC sense, not$50.50 in USDC in either base or optimism to 0773 h eth. Again, I'll just have the address below. Essentially you'll get a POAP really cool PO app celebrating the 25th episode. And the prizes are verbs. Coffee. So you can get a subscription to a coffee service if you're into coffee. Or you can get a Burner wallet which is a really cool like consumer facing crypto product. It's really fun. A lot of people have been enjoying that for the scavenger hunt. So yeah, I'll be giving away two things. So just make sure to collect that PO app. There'll be a link below on kind of more instructions on how to do it. Yeah. Make sure to subscribe to the hyper sub. We've got more content coming to you guys. All right, let's get back to it. Thanks. By the way, what do you think? Like, again, like, I would love to get your feedback. I don't know if you like me asking questions back to you or not. Yeah, but you're good. Yeah, you can ask. Yeah, yeah. So I would love to have your opinion as well. Like, have you used basket? If yes for what? If no, that's okay too. But why or what would make you buy into a basket? I would love to get the feedback. I was actually planning on creating a basket like a content creator basketball. So I'll probably do it. Yeah, I was gonna create a content creator token basket. So I have like my own token. Humpty has his. But I was trying to figure out like, other more, you know. So we have another co host on Early Morning Crew, Tree Girl. She doesn't have one, but I feel like I can patch one together. Like I can figure it out. I think if I use like Jake's qr. Oh, right. You know, because he's a content creator. I think Tony Hawk also has one. So I think I can put one together where it will work, you know, because I wouldn't want it to be like, you know, 33, like only three choices. Like, I would love it to be more like, you know, 10, 8%, you know, so then it feels like a real like content creator index. So. So by the way, one thing I've learned is, which we haven't enforced in the product yet, but I think after four or five products, it becomes information overload for the user. So one of the thesis that we have is we want to try pushing for more five token baskets if that converts better. So we haven't tested this yet. It's still in thesis mode. But intuitively we have started feeling that 4 to 5 is perfect number because below 4, like it's 1, 2 and 3. You're right, it's not useful basket any anymore. You can just buy them separately. But four or five is the number that you're like, okay, I'm gonna start using it. And after five, it's a diminishing return. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good insight. I would definitely surface that because I, I in my head I'm like, I don't know what the right number is. I just knew like three felt like not right. I was like, that's like, yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, I Think you're, you're a product person. Your intuition is very much aligned. Yeah, so I do. I was planning on doing it before, before the call, but sort of got stuck on the decision paralysis, like figuring out like which ones to put it in. So. But that's the point, right? That's the point of Basya because you are doing the decision and thought process and everything else. People are borrowing your decision making and research. Yeah, it's. That's the perfect example of like why I would want to use a basket with. From the person I trust. That research. So now I would buy Gramaho's basket or Gramaho's content creator basket in this case. Because I don't have much experience in content creator, but I believe in the thesis of content creators making more money. If that's the case, then basket it is. Yeah. So stay tuned. After this call, I'll definitely build it. Perfect. Just let me know when you build it and I will push it too. Because we send new baskets from amazing creators on a weekly basis, we should be able to push that to our users either Monday or next Wednesday. Okay, so we'll put it in front of the users. Okay. Yeah, no, I'll definitely, I'll ping you. Another like thing based on the question that you asked me earlier was kind of like, like tapping into the social graph. Like, so are you. I don't know how you attract this, but you can tell me like I, I come up with you tell me if it's feasible. That's all good, man. Essentially, like the, like, let's say I create this basket, right? And let's say Humpty or someone else uses my basket to buy it and then more and more people do it. And so then when someone else completely not relevant, like doesn't know me or maybe doesn't know me, who knows? But they could see, you know, like, because right now we have this too. Like certain apps where like it shows you who else has bought it. It has like their little PFP and it'll be like five of your friends bought X. You know, like, is there a way? So we already have that feature. Actually we already have that feature. Like on a bastard. If you go, it will tell you exactly who has bought it in the past. It's not too many people right now, but it's there. If it's Farcaster, it will show you the forecaster profile. If it's. There is no Farcaster profile attached. That will show you the wallet Wallet itself. It's not clickable yet. Where you can see all the full list, but it will give you like, you know, the pin stacked pin version of it. However, we are actually going to bring it even further where you will not only see who has bought the baskets, but you will also see the owners of individual tokens within the basket. So if somebody has not bought a basket but they have like let's say DJ and coin, like basket has five coins and two of them are DJ and clanker. Let's go with that. And you will also see people who owns DJ and Clanker that you are following and then you'll say, okay, so these people have these two coins that is in the basket and there are three other coins that are. That looks to be similar. I think I should get all five of them as an example. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes, that makes sense. Yeah, that. Because then they would be like a rabbit hole, you know, because then you'd be like, okay, there's, you know, I don't know, doopee or whatever, but I see everybody that has it, you know, so it's like a rabbit hole. And then you can go back to the top and you're like, screw it. This makes sense. Like let's buy the basket. Exactly. It's like more social validation opportunities where current social opportunities, whether somebody has bought the basket or not. And it's a net new data, which is why it's not that much. So how can we use the existing blockchain data on chain data to provide more social proof? And that's where this feature will be very handy. Yeah, that's exactly it. Like, like leaning into the social, the social proof aspect of it. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I think it's gonna. Again, that feature is extremely hard to build because we have to create a lot of caching mechanism just for each and every person and say who are people, the people that you follow who also owns some of the tokens from this basket. And that query itself is gigantic. So it's a, it's a combination of two, three different queries. Or as my developer said, it's literally a 10 query, 10 different select statements from different joins. So it's going to take time before we put it out there because if, if you do it as is, then it's going to crash the servers on a consistent basis. Yeah, it's a very heavy load. I, I imagine so. So, yeah, I know exactly what you just said. Actually you're a developer, right? So you know exactly what I mean. No, I'm not. But it reminded me of SQL. Yeah, it reminded me of SQL. If you know SQL, you're a developer in my eyes. There was time where I used to literally code more in SQL than JavaScript. I actually like those days. That's hilarious. Yeah, I. SQL's fun. It's. It's like I actually learned Python first and then SQL and that was like, oh, okay. That was a good combo because, like, for a moment, a moment I was trying to get into this whole like, bi. Like I was about to say data. Yeah. Data analytics. Yeah. I still might do. You were using Jupyter Notebooks mostly because you're using Python with Jupyter Notebook with data. Like, what do you call data adapters for whatever you want to use. And you write SQL in the middle. Yep, that's exactly it. Yeah. So Jupyter Notebooks was like where I was spending a decent amount of time. Nice. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any other questions that you have in mind since you have me? So. So I have a lot of questions. As in, like, why do you create the content? What? Like, I know your personal job around this, right? Like you work somewhere else, not gonna dox until whatever you want to docs. But point is that why do you create content? Because content creation doesn't come naturally to me. I create content for two reasons. One, I think Foraster has made me comfortable sharing my content, like my personal stories around this. So I'm getting comfortable with this, but so far I have not been previously. And two, it helps with the company as well because I think building in public health. So these are my two reasons on why I am sharing way more on Forecaster than anything else and mostly around my product and my thoughts around startups and everything around it. What makes you create more content? Yeah, I think for me it's mostly like I've been in this space for over a decade now and. And I really enjoy like the morphing of like crypto and tech like that, that, that Venn diagram. It like speaks to me. Yeah. So that made it. So I want to focus mostly on people like you. Like people that are trying to build something on chain that's different, you know, like, like you said and you chose the permissionless path. And I think that's what I like about Basket is that you didn't choose like, hey, let me build like highly curated. You could only buy cb, btc, you know, like wrap bitcoin and only, you know, like, only like the hot. The high. Not saying that Meme coins aren't high quality, but you know, like, you can only buy like the super super safe stuff. I mean, obviously no crypto safe, but, like, you know what I mean? No bitcoin safe these days. I'm confident bitcoin is the safe. Me too. Me too. But, you know, like, I can't tell people, like, go buy more bitcoin. But, you know. Yeah, Bitcoin to me at this stage is like, beyond safe. Yeah, absolutely. So the fact that you did a permission list, so I like that aspect of it, you know, like, is we have enough Things in Web2 that tell us we can't do something. So we have enough people. We have YouTube telling us we can't make. Well, actually YouTube's pretty good, but you have to have 500 subscribers on YouTube to make money. Twitter telling us you can't make any money with us unless you have, I don't even know, 3 million followers. Yeah, exactly. So we always have a bunch of rules in Web two of things that you can't do. And in Web three, it's like it flips all that upside down. It's like, even if you're five followers, you can make money by direct tip, by removing the middleman. Right. That's exactly it, man. Like, you know, like, Farcaster, like, has really unlocked that for me a lot, I would say. So. Like, before I used to make, I had Patreon. Like a Patreon subscription. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I got a couple subs and stuff. Good product, though. Yeah, fantastic product. Yeah, yeah, they're. They're. They're cool. And they're. I actually like some stack a lot. I love that founder. But anyway. Sorry. But yeah, that. That's kind of why I build content. It's mostly like to highlight the stories of people that are building things that either flip the script or. And, like, try and catch it early enough, you know, like. So the main focus that I've been on right now is Forecaster is very bass heavy. So, yeah, obviously you're. Obviously you're on base, but I have been spending more time interviewing, like, Solana founders. Stacks is another ecosystem that I'm very involved with, which is. Okay, Bitcoin L2. So I plan. I was about to stack. Okay, yeah, I know that one. Perfect. Yes. I plan on bringing some BTC content soon. Some world coin as well. Obviously. Like, I don't want to split myself too thin, but the goal is just to introduce people to new ideas and new ways of thinking. And usually with tech. It's usually with tech. That's usually what I try and focus on. That's nice. Yeah, that's super nice. What's happening in the Solana and the Stack world? Actually, I've heard about Stack long time ago. There are a few Bitcoin EVM L2s out there. What's special? What do you think is the uptick there? What's the adoption? We can probably cancel, like, finish this one completely and have a separate conversation. I'm open to it, but I'm definitely curious. Yeah, yeah, actually, that's a good call out. Let me. I do have one more question then before we pivot. I mean, let's do that and then. We'Ll come to that. All right, last question then before we wrap up then. And this is going to be like. You're going to be like, what the hell? So I initially got started with this and it used to be like bite size data was kind of like the whole idea of my newsletter and my content. So, like, you know, like. And so that led to like my me calling it pinchos, which are like a type of snack. So what is your favorite snack? What's my favorite snack? And this is a question I've asked everybody now. No pressure. So. Oh, my God. It does say carrots. It. No, carrots. Stew carrots. I eat that because. So that I don't feel like eating more. But my favorite snack, personally speaking, is something called like, they are. They're basically fried peanut in a chickpea batter and a lot of spices are added on it. They're called Singh bhajiya. It's a very good chati dish and I can't have it more because it's extremely spicy. And if I eat more than a lot, then it shows up on the next day. So that's tough. But the point is that it's absolutely bliss when I can have it with like. So what I do, actually, I'm salvading right now. Yeah, this sounds really good, by the way. Yeah. So point is that I actually have like two side by side dishes. One is like, I would have singpajia, which is like the fried peanuts in a chickpea batter with like lots of spices on top of it. Pretty much the black pepper, it's surrounded by black pepper itself, grounded one and one side and another side. It's extremely sweet yogurt. It's called shrikhand. So I actually have like two things side by side and I munch it like I'm eating popcorn and I can go for hours and it feels great. Oh, my goodness. Dude, I need to try this. What the hell? This sounds magical. Yeah, it is magical for me. Like I would have. I've done that only three or four times in my life because I know I. How unhealthy it can be and how impactful it is in my like next three days, four days of schedule because it is that strong. But it's absolutely the best thing for me to have especially like the one that I get from especially my mom comes or parents come from India, they have a particular place I like it from especially so they bring like a couple of bags for me. Like a couple of kg bags. So I would have that one bag with a couple of like the sweet yogurt one that I just mentioned side by side and spoonful of it. And I know that I'll be not eating anything crazy for next two or three days after that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that man. Oh that sounds. That sounds really good. I'm gonna have to try that at one point. Yeah. The whole point. I'll send you some links. Yeah, yeah. 70 links. I'm gonna give that a go. Yeah. As you're in the, in the. The brown one of the brown capitals of the world again, I'm not gonna dox you. You'll find it there. No, I think most people know I'm in the Bay Area, but yeah, there's plenty. Okay. Yeah, there's a lot of ending. Exactly. You'll find lots of this at Indian groceries. Both. I'll send you a couple of links. Find any brand and side by side I think you'll enjoy it. I know you like spicy food. We had a couple of I do good meal conversations at Far Call. That was the great thing about Farcon man. Like, like it was funny because like I think I said bye to you at the bright moments and then like. Right. And we just ran into that five. Minutes later we were running into each other at eating pizza which was hilarious. And then I met my. My nemesis. Shout out Vishal. I'm just kidding. Poor guy. Poor guy didn't know what hit him. I know, it's hilarious. I've been chatting with him after I shared the. I don't even know this guy's name. JC4P Jack Jap. Oh yeah, I know who. I don't know who that person is. I don't know if even he was there, so. Yeah, exactly. But he or she shared. I believe it's he. But he, he shared. Yeah. Like a markdown file to throw into LLM which helped a lot. So I just shared that with Vishal. And I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna ask you about that later on, like I'm not coding as much, but when I start coding more, I'll be, I'll be requesting that file. Yeah, I think he has it on his GitHub repo. I'll send, I'll send you the link. He has it on his GitHub repo where you. Perfect. Like he has like three different flavors. And that, that actually helped me like, like troubleshoot all the issues I was having. I was having like little mini like as you know, like debugging things. I was like, why can't I like figure this thing out? And then. Yeah, yeah, uploaded that thing and the LLM knew it, knew what to do. That's perfect, man, that's perfect. But yo, thank you for having me. This has been a fun conversation. Yeah, in person was fun, but this is even more fun. Of course. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm glad that we got to meet in person as well. I think before I actually close it up, I was going to ask you like, what, what are your where's, like, what's your thoughts on, you know, the week that we were just at Forecaster, you know, what's on? Like, what did you. Farcaster was a lot of fun. I think I said this in person as well. Yeah, that was. No, it's okay. So Farcon was a lot of fun. Again, meeting people that you know and talk virtually. You have zero idea what they look like and then you meet them and they are shorter, taller, all kind of different variations of whatever you can think of. And some people are warmer, some people are colder, but it's all personalities. Most people are warmer than colder, by the way, in person. So that was fun. So that is amazing. Amazing. I think comparing with last Farcon because I was there last year as well. I actually like the previous version a little bit better. Called me nostalgic because of that. Or maybe I'm a stuck up in that sense. But I think I wanted more community activations. Like what I missed was community involved in and getting things more fun. So for the last Farcon there was activation by like humankind. Right? Humankind was there. Be curious was there there. She was also selling her tea and everything. Again, it's not about like, I don't buy those things because again, I'm very specific. But it's more about supporting those people who really like supporting those people and giving them an opportunity to get their voice out in person. That part was missing. I thought there were spots on the location that could have been used for community activation. Also what I liked in the Last Farcon was you can print anything on your own T shirt as well. That was, I think was a great activation. I haven't seen that kind of activation in a while. For example, the board game Guy Nerd also had like three hours of a room full of board games. Right. So those kind of things I missed, which was completely done by the community and community themselves and no one else. As long as you give them a corner, they'll take care of everything else. I think that's what I missed. Became a little bit more commercial this time. Luckily people made it more fun, but it became more commercial and I think for the community to thrive because it's a community led event and not really by Farcaster, I think I would have appreciated more community involvement. So that's the only thing I'm negative about. But meeting in people, high quality content. Oh my God part, that conversation with Fred Wilson was amazing. I learned a lot from that. Right. Like that was like very like people pay$500 to sit in this kind of places where Fred Wilson is giving this kind of talks. Right. As an example. So those are very high quality content. But yeah, positive negatives. More, more positives though. Yeah. I agree with you that Fred Wilson talk. Definitely give that a listen. If you weren't there. That was a good one. Yeah, it is differently. Yeah. 1,000%. Yeah. You know, it's funny, I've heard someone, I've heard a couple people like post, post it. Like I've been chatting with people like in DMS or whatever and I've heard similar sentiment too from other folks too about it. I didn't go to the last one, so I, I, I came into it completely like, you know, oh, okay, clean slate. I was like, I have no idea. Didn't go to Boston either. The one two years ago, like 20. I was not even on Forecaster at that point. Yeah. So yeah, we'll see, we'll see what the next one is like. But all right. If you're hearing this message, that means you've listened to the entire episode and I want to thank you for that. If you're listening to this on another platform other than pods, make sure to collect this episode. If you're on pods, make sure to subscribe from your favorite Web2 podcasting app so you're notified when I drop episodes. There's also a pods mini app if that's a little bit more in line with your style. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Make sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast podcasts. If there's a specific person or topic that you'd like me to cover in the future, definitely let me know via Warpcast or Forecaster Rip, Warpcast, Twitter or wherever is best. There's even a text message you can send me down below. Before we wrap up, make sure to again collect your PO app. Should be fun. And before we wrap up, this week's Cast off and Cast Off. For those not familiar, it's a segment where I want to hear from you, the audience. So this episode's Cast off question is. Yeah, what do you think about baskets? Is it a tool you see that you would like, want to use? Seems like a pretty cool thing like that you can kind of create and then have some upside on referring people to use your essentially like what's like a basket or index of tokens. Now that Farcasters exploring, you know, Solana chain, I'd be curious and I could see it'd be kind of cool where you have base tokens and Solana meme tokens all in one basket. But hey, you know, it's only day one on that Solana integration, so we'll see what happens. All right, see you guys. Until next time, Sa.