Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Two Time Grammy-Nominated Artist and Trauma-Informed Coach: How to Follow Your Creativity Without Burning Out

What happens when your creative path evolves into something you never originally planned, but feels more aligned than ever?

In this episode of The Change Effect, I sit down with Cheryl B. Engelhardt, a two-time Grammy-nominated composer, artist, and certified trauma-informed coach, for a powerful conversation about creative pivots, nervous system regulation, visibility, and building a sustainable life and career.

Cheryl shares how her journey took her from studying marine biology and working underwater for the U.S. Geological Survey to composing music for commercials, releasing pop albums, and eventually stepping into the world of New Age and ambient music. 

Along the way, she discovered that true creative evolution is not just about changing what you make. It is also about changing how you support yourself while making it.

This episode is an inspiring listen for artists, entrepreneurs, coaches, and anyone navigating a major pivot while learning how to trust their voice, regulate their nervous system, and create from a more grounded place.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Cheryl’s unconventional path from marine biology to music and composition
• How she moved from pop music into New Age and ambient music
• Why nervous system regulation matters for artists, entrepreneurs, and anyone building something visible
• The hidden connection between being seen, old emotional patterns, and creative blocks

This episode is a reminder that your evolution does not need to make sense to everyone else to be right for you. Sometimes the next version of your work asks you to leave behind what is familiar, trust what is emerging, and build a life that supports who you are becoming.

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to follow, rate, and review the podcast and tell me what resonated with you.

Connect with Cheryl:

Website: www.cbemusic.com

Instagram: www.instagram.com/cbemusic 

Retreat: www.inthekey.co/retreat

Stay Connected with Noelle:

IG: Noelle Van

IG: daybyday

Facebook: Day by Day 

Transcript

[00:00] Noelle Van: We as it I really believe that we are like localized mammals and we were not designed to know all of the horrors of the world 247 at all times of the day. So I have time scheduled and I go to my news apps if something like news breaking happens. Obviously I don't want to be an idiot, but I, I'm really, really careful with how that part of my external world comes in. And this is the same reason why we make boundaries with like, you know, parents calling us and it's the same, it's the same stuff so that we can do what we are meant to do at the time that we say we want to be doing it. And it's more in our control. And I don't love the word control, but it's really more we're giving ourselves back the power.

[00:39] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yes. And you're taking it back into your own hands. Welcome to the Change Effect, the podcast that helps you turn life transitions into powerful new beginnings. One story, one shift, one breakthrough at a time. I'm your host, Noelle Van, an author, leadership coach and change strategist who spent years in corporate America helping innovators and leaders break through barriers to create success their own terms. I now work with women to step into change to create a life they love. Whether you're putting yourself at the center of your own story, redefining success, or making a power pivot in your life, career or business, you're in the right place. Each week we dive into conversations with trailblazers, change makers, and everyday women, experiencing the ripple effects that come from overcoming the fear and doing it anyway, providing actionable steps, practical strategies, and a whole lot of fun along the way. So if you're ready to step up and become unstoppable, buckle up and let's get started.

[01:31] Noelle Van: Started.

[01:37] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: There's something fascinating about the seeds that get planted early in our lives and the creative instincts we follow before we know where they'll eventually lead us. Sometimes those seeds grow exactly the way we imagined, and other times they evolve, expanding into directions we couldn't have predicted at the beginning. Today's guest knows that journey well. Cheryl B. Engelhardt is a two time Grammy nominated composer and artist whose career has taken her across an incredible range of creative landscapes, from film and commercials to choirs, meditation programs and global performances. Her work has been featured in Forbes, Grammy.com and People, and she's performed alongside artists like Sting and Pentatonix, reaching millions of listeners worldwide. But what I love about Sheryl's story is that it isn't just about success. In the traditional sense, it's about evolution. Over time, her music has shifted and expanded, moving from pop to new age and the ambient landscapes she feels most aligned with today. Her seventh album, the Passenger, created during a cross country train journey, earning a Grammy nomination, and her latest album, According to the Moon, did the same, both receiving critical acclaim. Along the way, Cheryl recognized how her journey could help others and became a certified trauma informed coach, helping her clients understand the connection between a regulated nervous system and and bold creative expression. Through her Mastermind program, Amplify and her Rooted Results methodology, she supports artists in building careers that are not only successful, but sustainable and aligned. Today we're going to talk about life and creative pivots, the power of nervous system regulation, and what it really means to follow the evolution of your work, even when it takes you somewhere completely new. Cheryl, welcome to the podcast.

[03:23] Noelle Van: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be talking with you.

[03:26] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: It's wonderful to have you here and I'm so excited to dive into your story because I feel like it has some twists and turns to it that are really interesting and I wanted to just to start, maybe you could tell us just a little bit about where you grew up and then kind of how your career has evolved or kind of got started to. Started to evolve.

[03:49] Noelle Van: Yeah, I mean, I'm an east coast gal. I grew up in Connecticut. I went to college in Ithaca, New York and moved to Manhattan soon after. But yeah, I was always a musician. I started playing the piano when I was really little, like two or three, was writing music, was always in choirs and shows and all the things, but I had posters of whales and dolphins on my walls. Like I was not thinking I was going to go be a rock star or anything like that. And I studied marine biology during college and my advisor was like, hey, if you take a couple extra credits because you're taking so many music electives, you could be a double major. And I was like, okay, let's, let's do it. But my first job out of, out of graduating after graduating was scuba diving for the United States Geological Survey for the government, basically doing water quality research. And that was interesting, but also not as glamorous as it sounds. And about six months in, we had a break. I think the river froze or something anyway, and a friend of mine who knew I wrote music said hey, I'm. He's a, he was a web designer. He's like, hey, will you come to Rome, Italy with me? I doing this website for a really high end hotel that's Owned by the Vatican, so we can stay there for free. And. And I need someone to help me, like, create some videos and write the music for the content on the website. And so I did that for a month and I was like, yeah, this is way cooler than. This is way cooler than being underwater in neoprene 12 hours a day. So I went back to the.

[05:10] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: What an invite. That's an incredible invitation.

[05:13] Noelle Van: It was definitely the invite. I call it like the yes of a lifetime. You know, it really was the first big yes that had a massive pivot. There have been a couple of those. And long story short, that took takes me to my early 20s. And then I started getting jobs and internships and things in New York City and recording studios and advertising houses and then landed a job as a tech. And then I turned composer at a jingle house, writing music for commercials that you see on TV and all the while, like, working on my own music and putting a band together. And I started touring on the weekends and doing the singer songwriter, pop thing for four albums over 12 years now.

[05:48] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: What was your band name? Just.

[05:50] Noelle Van: Just my name, you know, kind of like Cheryl Crow.

[05:51] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Oh, okay. You were the. You were the headliner.

[05:53] Noelle Van: Okay.

[05:53] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yep.

[05:54] Noelle Van: Yeah. And, you know, I got a composer residency that in Greece that was really a way for me to do some experimentation. And I ended up putting out this weird sort of vocal piano heart. I did some studies on, like, heart rates and music and anxiety. And so I released this New age album as my fifth album, Luminary, and that shot up to number one on iTunes and Amazon. And I was like, am I a New age artist now? And I started looking into, like, what the genre was, and I was like, oh, I've always loved New age music. And I studied the origins of electronic music in college that are very closely tied to the development of New Age back in the 70s and the 60s. And I was just like, oh, I don't have to do a verse chorus, verse, chorus. Like, I don't have to fit into this pop realm. I could be weird with my lyrics or not have lyrics at all and bring in my orchestral training in strings or not. And like, I felt like I had so much more freedom once I really dug into the. The genre. So now I'm, you know, my fourth and fifth New age albums book got nominated for Grammy. So I feel like that was a. That was a smart pivot. Pivot.

[06:51] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: That. That is just amazing to me. And when I think about. Because when I think of songwriting, right, That's. That's a whole. A Whole process.

[07:00] Noelle Van: Yeah.

[07:00] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: When you create, like you put together your music, how is that. How is that different? Is it.

[07:05] Noelle Van: Are.

[07:06] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Is it like you're writing a story? I know that sounds a little silly to ask, but are you writing a story with music to some degree?

[07:12] Noelle Van: Yeah, sometimes. I mean, the lyrics definitely can tell a story. And I think in pop music and singer, songwriter, and country, you hear a lot. In rock, you hear a lot of that. Here's what the story is, here's the feeling that we're amplifying. And I think there's a really distinct difference that I see as I write for New Age and ambient music, which is I like to create music that provides a platform for the listener to process whatever they need to process to hear whatever they need to hear versus, you know, if you want to go listen to a sad song, you go listen to Sarah McLachlan's, you know, in the Arms of an angel, you know, if you want to cry. Like, the music in other genres can dictate how you want to feel, which is so powerful and amazing that music can do that. I didn't want to do that anymore. I wanted to say, hey, there's so much stuff that. And this definitely coincides with my coaching training and becoming a trauma informed coach and just working with clients for over a decade, seeing that there's so much stuff that we push down. And what if there was a way that just listening to an album or a track could help you acknowledge that in a safe space and see what you are maybe historically unwilling to see? And so becoming the platform to let people feel what they want to feel versus dictating how they should feel. Again, there's nothing wrong with either one of those, but that's the biggest difference I see in writing for New Age.

[08:35] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Okay, so. And this might sound like a esoteric question, but I'm going to ask it anyways because I feel like when I think about orchestration and working with different music, and you said that it's a lot of like helping people to bring things up and out, right? To kind of access emotion. So when you're composing that or when you're putting together and this is without lyrics, right? So it's the. Strictly the music.

[08:57] Noelle Van: A lot of it is. A lot of it. Some of it is, isn't. But yes, for now, most of what I've been doing has been lyric less, other than my choral work.

[09:05] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Is there sort of a way that that comes out or is it more by feel for you? Like, I just, I'm. I'm more curious because I've never been a musician, and I don't. You know, I've never written music. I've. You know. So how that. How does that evolve in such a way that, like, you're evoking? Cause I know that it would probably be an. Emotionally, you're. You're attached to it as you're creating it. But, like, how do you. Do you do that purposefully? Does it just sort of come out and then. I don't know. I'm just.

[09:31] Noelle Van: I'm thinking of, like, writing a book. It's a great question. I really started to formulate, like, what this was when I did the Passenger, which was the first album that got nominated in 2022 or 23 for a Grammy. And that's the one I made on the train. And I had gotten on that train two weeks after my best friend and collaborator, we wrote a musical together. He had passed away from. From cancer at 43. And I. We were supposed to. He was supposed to be my date at the Grammys. And so I still was like, I'm still gonna go to Los Angeles, but I'm gonna get there by train and just take this break for myself. And so the. And I brought my computer in this tiny little keyboard. So everything is synthetic. It. There's like, I. It's way too loud. I brought a microphone on. Like, there's no way you can record sounds on the train. It's just so much noise. So it's all electronic music. And then I had a couple friends later on, like, play a violin or a little vocal solo. But so I have a couple acoustic moments. But really it's this electronic thing. So when you listen to it, it's electronic, ambient, New age. That's kind of like the categories, but for me, it was a grief album. I didn't set out to say I'm going to write something so sad that when everyone listens to it, they're also going to be sad. I was like, I'm going to just see what comes through that I need to get out and, like, have some moments in space. And this album has so much more. And you can already hear how I talk. Like, I have a fast cadence. I like to play fast notes on the piano. Like, there. A lot of my pop stuff, there's. There's a lot of stuff in there. And this. There was a lot more space. And someone not knowing that that's what they were listening to was, like, the space to let things out wouldn't know that it's a grief Album. And I have. I've had so many people tell me that they listen to it when they're on flights and it calms their anxiety, or they listen to it with their kids when they're waking up or going to bed. And it's not about grief. And that was not. So I did not want to again, like. Like, I was talking about in a pop song. Like, I could have written lyrics about, like, how sad that was. And my. You know, my dad passed away 13 years ago when. When I was still doing a lot of my pop singer songwriter stuff. And people were like, oh, you're gonna write the best songs for him. And I never did. They were all so cheesy. Um, and there was one song on one of my New Age albums, the Secret Slumber, that there are lyrics, and I actually. I found a recording of him we. I was, like, reading him a couple texts from a song, and I was like, hey, what do you think about this? And I'm gonna record it so I can hear it back later to see which version is better. And then I forgot to turn the recorder off, so I have him, like, having a conversation with me. And so I have this one line. He said, any way you choose is moving on. And he said it so musically and so lyrically that I was able to kind of Da da da da da na na na. And I created this melody around it. But that. I digress. That's the only song in 13 years that I have actually written out of, you know, for my dad. And again, that song is not even a grief song. So this is a long way to answer your question. Question? I. It's part just kind of what drops in, and it's a little bit of luck. But it also, I think, is if. What it comes down to is if I'm having an emotional experience, and I don't think it matters what emotion I'm experiencing. If I'm experiencing a big emotion, I think. I think what comes out is something that will allow someone else to. It will be a catalyst for someone else to experience an emotion as well.

[12:40] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yeah. Of their own. Right. That could be different. Yeah.

[12:42] Noelle Van: Yeah.

[12:43] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yep. Yep. Well, because when I think about, like, I think of writing and. And I mean, I have. I have written things before that I've gone back to and thought, did I write that? Like, have you ever. Have you ever had those moments where you. Cause, I mean, music is out there, right? You have it. Years. Years pass, and now you can kind of look back at your work. Are there things or are there songs that you wrote that you. I mean, because I really. I believe in that. That's. That we kind of channel it. It's kind of coming through us.

[13:11] Noelle Van: So definitely have some pieces that I go back to. And like, those are. Those are the favorites. There are two or three on. There's one on the Passenger album. There's two or three on A Seeker Slumber. That. That was my second New Age album, and half of it has lyrics. Some of my favorite stuff is on that album, but I'm kind of thinking that I need to do a follow up to that one. Because of all my New Age albums, that one is my favorite. And I go back to that and I'm like, oh, there's something special here. And I wasn't quite sure. I wasn't fully. Like, I'm a New Age artist now. Like, I hadn't really grasped onto the identity. So you can hear the pulling from the pop pushing forward. And now I want to kind of reach back to that and be like, all right, now I know. I know what this is.

[13:53] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yeah.

[13:53] Noelle Van: And there are moments and, you know, I knew when I was writing. I have one song from my second album. The album was called Craving the Second. And the song is called Keep, and it was my dad's favorite song. And actually there's a motif, little melody in that song, keep from 2007 that is in that any way you choose is moving on song for my dad because it was his favorite.

[14:12] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Oh, I love that.

[14:13] Noelle Van: That song. When I was writing, I was like, there's something special here. And it became my moneymaker song. Like, it got placed on, like, All My Children and like, all these TV shows and stuff like that. So it's funny that, like, the one that identified that I was kind of like, oh, that's a. That's a keeper. Ironically, the song is called Keep, you know, so I kind. I kind of knew in the moment. I. I also got a lot of critique that the lyrics are. I literally heard the word esoteric. Too esoteric for pop. Even though the chord progression and melody is really great in pop. Like, I've. I've heard all sorts of things, which is why, again, like, that would fit perfectly in New Age if it was produced slightly differently. Didn't have, like, the big drums or whatever. So.

[14:46] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: But see, like. But what's interesting is it's like you're now evolving into, like, you had that pivotal moment. And did you have a pivotal moment really, that you said, okay, I'm now stepping into New Age, or did it just one thing Led to the other.

[15:00] Noelle Van: There are a couple moments in that. In that pivot. Cause that's a big pivot.

[15:03] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yeah.

[15:04] Noelle Van: I think the first one was when I thought I was going to this artist residency to write choral music, to write text for some choral pieces that I was a suite that I was creating. And I knew I was. There were 12 people and there was like a sculptor and an. I was literally an artist. So I was the musician. And I was like, oh, it's, you know, it's this half abandoned mountain town, tiny little town in Greece. Like you have to take a ferry and a taxi and a goat like to get there. Like, it's just, you know. And when I got there, I was anticipating just writing text. So I had like journals. I brought my like good microphone in case I had a couple ideas or there was some sound, but they were like, and here's your room. And I opened the door and it was like this huge two story cave stone ceiling with a grand piano in the middle of it. And I was like, oh, wow. Oh, I have two weeks to like. And I recorded it. And the echoes and the. Everything in the room was so beautiful. And I was like, I will not be able to recreate this digitally anywhere. Like, I'm going to make an album here. And I. So I scrapped the choir idea. I did it later.

[15:59] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yeah.

[16:00] Noelle Van: And I had my. Luckily I had that good microphone. And so that like when I walked into that room that like, like, I know what I need to create here came out. And so I did a lot of like singing. There are also so many stray dogs. So I was doing these like, like really high things and I would have to wait for the dogs to stop responding at night. Like, like, I think there's actually one was like left in way in the background. But so that was. I was like, I don't need lyrics for this. I. This. I want to translate like what's in this room.

[16:31] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: And that's like the universe handing that to you on a platter. Like, here you go. And by the way, acoustically beautiful room and space, you know.

[16:41] Noelle Van: Yeah. And I'm redoing my studio right now actually in my house. And that room is like a very big like we're going to do. One wall is going to be this kind of like faux stone kind of to emulate that. Like a friend of mine was like, why don't you just try to recreate that room that like got you started? I was like, that is true. But the second pivot moment of that new age journey was like, that was like. When I was like, all right, let's. And I didn't say, I need to write something new age. I was like, I need to write something special here. I want to play with. Every song is six minutes on that album. Luminary is the name of the album. And it's. They all start off with, like, a little tension and a little, like, minor, a little darker, a little complicated, and they all either slow down or turn to happier. So I was like, what if you caught someone in the middle of an anxiety attack? And, like, listening to calm music doesn't help because they're already racing. What if you could race with them and then latch on and slow down together? And so that's what every track on that album does. So that's. That was more of the experiential motivation. I wasn't thinking genres. I was thinking, how can this do something for someone in a moment? And then when I logged on after it went live a couple months later, after I mixed it and everything, and I saw that it was number one on iTunes and Amazon and Bandcamp and all these platforms, which I had never experienced as a pop artist, because, you know, you're going up against Taylor Swift and all the other, like, huge artists in several crossover genres. I. That was like, oh, my gosh. This feels really like people are buying this. People I don't know are buying this. Like, my fans are buying this. Even though I pivoted and I was. I was so nervous that they were gonna be like, oh, we. We only follow you because of your. Your cor. Your pop stuff, and. Right.

[18:13] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Which is so not.

[18:14] Noelle Van: Yeah. Which is so silly, because I'm like, shame on me for thinking that my fans only listen to one kind of music. Right. Like, of course. And, like. And that they're not there, just that they're only there for the music. And it hasn't been years and years of me cultivating relationships with them, so of course they're gonna stick around. So I was like, hey, I'm pivoting to new age. And I was like, click, send on that email to my. And they were like, okay, cool. When does it come out? Like, so it was just amazing. So that was another big pivot to see. I think success kind of begets success, and so it helped. That snowball effect of being like, hey, like, you're. You're onto something here. And that was a really cool way to. To create and to process, and spaces and environments really are special. Is also way less expensive than going to a recording studio. And paying a bunch of people. And like, like, I myself, like, I really found my skills inside of creating a record in that way.

[19:05] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: That is amazing. Okay. So when I think of the backbone of what you do, which is about helping in. In your coaching work, like, how did that. How did that kind of crossover? So when you were saying you started doing some of the, you know, the album that you made, that was really for a purpose, right. Had you already had sort of the inkling that you wanted to do coaching work, has. How did that kind of intersect with your music?

[19:28] Noelle Van: Oh, yeah, that album was 2018. I had started my coaching training in 2008. So I got it.

[19:33] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Okay.

[19:34] Noelle Van: I had already been a coach. I had already had hundreds of clients by then. I've had. I started my group coaching program Amplify, in 2016, actually. Okay. We're coming up to the third. The 10th.

[19:46] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Third.

[19:46] Noelle Van: It's the 30th of March. It was my very, very first zoom call with a group, a small group, and that has grown and grown, and I went live every single day for three months during the beginning of COVID for People. So it's that. That had already been going and I had already, like, gotten sort of what my pillars and my. My framework that I coach from really well established. And so I already knew that connecting the dots between the somatic experience of stress and results are. They're interconnected. Right. And there's. There was so much stuff about marketing and you need this new app or this, you know, you need to be on this social media thing in order to get better results. And it was only really recently when I was like, no one is connecting the dots in this. I mean, there are. There are people doing it now, but, like, back then it was like, there's no one talking about how if you are feeling regulated in your nervous system, how you can actually get those better results. I don't think people that are afraid of being seen need a different kind of email server provider. You know, it's like, oh, let's talk about that.

[20:50] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Let's amp it up. Let's amp it up even more.

[20:53] Noelle Van: Yeah, let's talk about when you were a kid and you got seen and it didn't go well. Like, that little kid is preventing you from hitting send and, like, actually saying things. So it's all, you know, it's all subconscious. But that. That was very clear to me already when I stepped into new age. So it was. It really felt like, oh, this is connecting. Not that I'm trying to force the connection between My coaching and my music side of things. Like, I feel like it's okay that they're two different things, but they're more and more. There's more overlap, especially in how I work at both of those careers.

[21:23] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: I was going to say. And tell me a little bit more about the Amplify program, because I know you mentioned it and it's just sounds fascinating to me because I know, and I didn't realize you had started it back at Covid. So this has been going for.

[21:34] Noelle Van: I started way before COVID I was on Zoom with these guys. Well before Zoom was cool.

[21:39] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Oh, wow. But the program has been in existence for 10 years, you're saying, right?

[21:43] Noelle Van: So you program's in existence 10 years. We, like, amped it up in Covid just because so many. And initially it was really for musicians. And so many musicians perform live and make their rent by performing live. So when all the venues shut down, like, that was a real. So we did a lot of pivoting. I got a lot of really shy people to perform on Facebook and figure out how to ask for tips. So like, three months in, six months into Covid, people were like, making more money than they ever had before because they didn't have the expenses of traveling and all this other stuff while the music industry was sitting there being like, oh my God, we have to pivot every. And I'm like, everyone, come on in into this. But I've since opened it up more and more to creatives, creative adjacent folks. And the retreat that I host, it was funny. During COVID you know, after 90 days of going live with, you know, 60 to 100 people every day, there was the joke of, oh, when this is all over, we should go camping together and we can call it Camplify. Um, and I was like, that's so cute. I don't want to go camping with anybody. Um, so no. But I was like, what about Ampla Mansion? And we go to a mansion and like, that became my retreat. So it became Ampla Mansion for the first couple years after. That's a great. Like, go to this mansion on this beautiful property and like, it's a four day, like, totally catered, like, really transformational, like, release stuff and then like, figure out what you want to bring in now that you have the space. Like, it's an amazing experience. And I, two years ago, started opening up to the public and I had people at companies and arts foundations and solopreneurs and people coming. And I. I use all my examples from my own music career in terms of the work that I do, but I'm like, oh, this. This is for anyone that's creating something from nothing, period. End of story.

[23:29] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Now, is it mostly, like, nervous system work? Is it somatic code? I mean, what does it entail? It sounds like it's a very creative. It's a creative experience to some degree. But like you said, it's not all creative.

[23:41] Noelle Van: Yeah, no, there's. I mean, we're not. It's a.

[23:43] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Not creating anything.

[23:44] Noelle Van: We're not sitting there having songwriting sessions. There is an open mic night, like a sort of living room concert. And there was one person who was like, I do not have a musical bone in my body. And she. Everyone gets five minutes. And she was like, I'd like to present what I do at my nonprofit. And we were all like. It was the most, like, awesome, you know, way to kind of just like, say, this is the. This is my thing. Um, but, yeah, so it is. There is a lot of somatic nervous system work, but it's very cognitive. I am a thinker. The people that kind of get into my world are. Are tend to be thinkers. They might consider themselves overthinkers or type A or doers. And we have this hustle, energy, and trying to figure out how to get that to channel itself so that we don't end up feeling overwhelmed and have these big, like, peaks and valleys of, like, crashing. And then, like, all of that, that comes with that kind of person. And I'm not saying everyone that is. That comes or that I. I work with is that, but that's. That's kind of what I put out there. So I'm like, okay, let's talk about this. But then let's talk about it in a way that we can intentionally drop it into our body so our body's aligned. Because how many times have you heard someone be like, I know this is the right thing to do, but I feel really scared, and I'm not gonna do it right? So, like, connecting those dots and bridging the gaps between, like, what we know up here, figuring out how to drop that into the body so that we can get the whole. The whole being off.

[25:08] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yes, yes, yes. I love that. I love that it is expanded, too, beyond the creative world only because it does go to it. Just the example you just gave of the woman that was giving the speech, it's really about voice, right? Like, doesn't have to be singing. It could be talking. It could be inspiring. It could be sharing something. So I just. I think that that was so powerful that you said that. Cause I was thinking that's like, that's the kind of thing that. That was probably the best thing for her to do, is to be able to do that in front of everyone and have everybody, like you said, just be hanging on her every word just as much as they would if she was singing a song, because.

[25:43] Noelle Van: Exactly. It's so supportive. And I mean, I think for. For coaches, for anyone that is creating a business where they have to show up in order for the thing to happen, that is creating something from nothing. Right. And I think that's most entrepreneurs. It's definitely all artists. It's definitely, you know, but when you're doing that, you ha. You're making something, whether it's a program or a modality or a painting, and you have to. If you're not just doing it as a hobby for yourself, again, there's nothing wrong with that. But if you're in this for a business, for the long haul, it's like, okay, how. How do I get it out there? Right? The. The implant is out there. You have to talk about it. People are like, how do you. How do you market your albums? How do you market your coaching programs? I'm like, I do the thing, I make the thing, and then I talk about it. That's my strategy. Like, but if you have any sort of stuff around, showing up and being seen, it's not going to go well. It's not going to work the way you want it to. You're going to spin your wheels. You're going to be like, I've tried everything like that. That's another thing. I hear a lot. I tried everything. Nothing works.

[26:44] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yep, yep.

[26:45] Noelle Van: Yes. But maybe you're trying everything here. But we haven't actually healed this from this time. That's underlying, you know, unseen shadow stuff. That's. That's actually getting in the way.

[26:56] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yeah. Yeah. Well. And have you found that, I mean, the people that you work with predominantly. And I know that it's artists now and it's. It's obviously expanded. But did they come to you initially because they were looking to get their work out there? I mean, was it like. What was the initial?

[27:12] Noelle Van: Yeah, I definitely would joke with some of my clients that I'm a little bit of a bait and switch. Like, I don't like, you think you're going to come and like, you know, I. Again, I've had. I've had a lot of, you know, success for an indie artist as a musician. And so people are like, I want what you have can you, can you coach me to do that? And I, and I'm like, yes. And I'm not, I'm not going to say, oh, we're going to do it the way I did it. But we're going to do the personal work so that you can actually hold the results that you're trying to bring in. So they might think they're going to come in and get a release strategy. I made an app for that. It's a checklist, it's free. Like there, it's called releaseify. Like they can go download the app and like it tells you exactly what to do to release music and get it on itunes and you know, engage with your fans in a meaningful way, all that stuff. But like, and I'll walk them through that for sure. But then they're like, oh, like the number of times I've had people be like, I didn't think I was gonna cry on this session with you. And I'm like, yeah, that happens, you know, when we're healing the stuff that's been blocking us. Like it's, it can be emotional and, and that was what I was committed to. I saw so many like marketing guru, like music industry dudes, so many dudes just telling, giving advice and calling themselves coaches. And I'm like, you're not, you're, you're talking to the symptom. You are not getting to the source of the problem that is really the, the block that's going to have them, you feel inspired for the moment while they're talking to you but not actually be able to turn that into a long term way of working a process, a routine.

[28:41] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Well, and what's so interesting, what you just said was it, it brought to mind like when you were saying, you know, the social media stuff and the marketing and all of that and when people are being told what they need to do and then they' I can't believe it's not working. Why isn't this happening? And yes, it is an inside job. We all know that, right? At the end of the day we all know that. But when you think about society around us and this culture that we have now where everybody's doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, I can imagine it's like that. Well, not. I can imagine I'm part of it too, right? I feel it. It's like noise, noise, noise, noise, noise. And how do you kind of come back to center? And like you said, if there's things that you're still trying to get through or over from past experiences, if you don't work those out, you're not gonna be able to even show up fully. So there's this, like. It's kind of. One has to sort of happen before the next. But you have so much out there that's telling you that it's all outside, all the outside stuff that you gotta bring in.

[29:39] Noelle Van: I mean, yeah, it's absolutely. We. We are running on, or at least society tells us that we should be. I hate the word should be running on all 4900 cylinders, right? And then we've got all the other stuff that the world is throwing at us, right? If you are looking at the news ever, if you are. If you have a family, if you're dealing, like, there's all this external stuff that is getting thrown at us, and if we don't have the capacity to hold it, let alone create some boundaries. Like, I have. I have friends that they send me stuff that's happening in the world, that's affecting their families or whatever. And I'm like, an ally in a lot of different. Like in all this stuff. And when they send it to me on Instagram, like, send me reels of. Of news or, like, really horrific things, I have, like a cut and copy. Like, I have my ways of making sure that I'm not an ostrich with my head in the sand. And it's not on Instagram. My Instagram is for me to share my stuff with the world, so I have to be on there. I understand that as an artist and as an entrepreneur and as a coach. And when I go on there, Instagram's gonna show me stuff no matter what. I would like to see puppies. I would like talking about what a cookout is versus a barbecue. Like, that's what I wanna be watching. And so I curate that very carefully so that I. When I am sitting in, like, giving mode, I am not getting bombarded with stuff that my nervous system is not trained to handle. Like, we. As it. I really believe that we are like localized mammals and we were not designed to know all of the horrors of the world 24, 7 at all times of the day. So I have time scheduled and I go to my news apps if something like news breaking happens. Obviously, I don't want to be an idiot, but I'm really, really careful with how that part of my external world comes in. And it's the same reason why we make boundaries with, like, you know, parents calling us. And it's the same. It's the same stuff so that we can do what we are meant to do at the time that we say we want to be doing it. And it's more in our control. And I don't love the word control, but it's really more. We're giving ourselves back the power.

[31:40] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yes. And you're taking it back into your own hands versus it just coming at you. But this is going to be a tactical question, but do you. You seriously are able to filter or are you saying that you, by the way that you respond to it, you're sort of teaching it to not. Not send you as much of it.

[31:56] Noelle Van: Yeah. So if my.

[31:57] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: I mean, that's like a. That's a. Actually a really good thing to do if you know how to do it.

[32:01] Noelle Van: You click on something and watch something, and if you watch it all the way through, the algorithm's like, oh, cool, more of this. So I'm not going to be watching, like, you're looking at puppies. I'm not going to be watching on. On Instagram. Right. Specifically, like, on social media. Like, that's not what I've decided social media is for me because I'm someone who, if I had a choice, I would not be on social media. And I understand that it plays a role in everything that I'm doing. So, yes, you know, and. And there are these, like, we can say, oh, no. And hold on. I have like nine thoughts at once. I don't think that if someone really, really, really hates social media, if they hate it, I don't think that they have to be on it. Like, I don't think anyone should be doing anything for their business that they hate.

[32:41] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Right.

[32:41] Noelle Van: And that's not to say, hey, maybe there's an underlying reason. Like that whole, maybe you were seen and it didn't go well. And so that's part of being seen. So there might be something to work through there, but there are ways to make it work for you, so it does the thing you want it to do. So I just keep checking in with myself. Is this doing what I want it to do for me? Is it serving a purpose? Is it getting a message to the right people? And when I'm there, am I able to see the things that I want to see? If I'm there to take a break or is it hurting my experience throughout my day?

[33:10] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: So, like, adding to the. Adding to the anxiety or adding to the.

[33:14] Noelle Van: Yeah, exactly. And I'm an anxious person anyway, so I'm like, I don't need that and I need. I need to have the choice. So the choice is where the power is Right. Like, this is why people die and fight for choice, because choice is power. So when you take away your choice to consume and have coming into your somatic experience, your body, your mind, when you have the choice, you have more power. So when you are bombarded with stuff that you did not kind of consent to because you weren't realizing how the algorithms worked or you had clicked on something you didn't really want to, I mean, that's where choice goes away. And that can start to feel like you don't have control. So we start to do other things, and then we have to do more things to get that control back. And that's where we get the overwhelm, because we're doing to compensate rather than doing to achieve something specific. Right?

[34:03] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yes. And I feel like that's. It's gotten so clouded that the work that you do is even that much more important. Right into getting people into a space and into a. Even just a physiological space where they can take in what they need to and be able to have that discernment or that ability to create a boundary, to leave out some of the stuff that they know is gonna amp up the situation. I mean, I've learned that the hard way. I mean, truly. And my news intake right now is so minimal without, like you said, I don't wanna not know if something, you know, like, I need to not have my head totally in the sand. But I also am extremely careful about what I put in front of myself in the morning, the things that I expose myself to. So I totally get that. But now, Cheryl, so your work is really important. And I feel like. I mean, I love what you do because I feel like you have these two. It's like the musical component and then the coaching component fits so nicely together. And I mean, you're on fire. I love this. But I wanted to ask you, so of the two of your two paths, or I guess they're kind of intertwined, but what's coming up next for you? What's on the docket for 2026?

[35:17] Noelle Van: Yeah. Well, I just finished this album cycle, which is sort of what we in the biz call when you release an album and then you promote an album and then maybe submit it to some things. And that album, according to the Moon, got nominated for a Grammy, which happened in February this past year. So there was a lot. There's so much stuff around that. So I'm coming of that. And I am now just getting into finishing up some choral suites. I have a choral publisher, and they've been Very patient. But I'm working on a whole series of music specifically for winter solstice to kind of replace. I have had a lot of choir director friends say I'm so bored of my Christmas and Jewish music that we have to sing every year. Can you like write something that feels like a carol that feels like winter? And you know, nothing against that. The lovely traditional. Oh that we normally hear the time of year. But there's not a lot of secular but still winter songs that feel like they're honoring something, like they're rituals. So I've done all this research. So anyway, so I'm writing this solstice suite and there a bunch of pieces are out already. And then. So that's kind of my musical thing for now. I know there's more ambient new age music coming, but I kind of was just like, all right, we just did. Let me take a quick break from that and dive into this music that I love. I've got some collaborations on. On musical collaborations in that world as well. But yeah, and then I've got coming up as my. My May retreat, my annual retreat now now called the Rooted Results Retreat because we have expanded it outside of amplify it used it was amplimation.

[36:42] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Right.

[36:43] Noelle Van: Anyone that has. We have a lot of people that come back and so they, they know that they're. That they can call it that as well. And that's. That's middle May. And so I'm, you know, I'm always tweaking the curriculum, which doesn't change a lot. But it. Because it's been pretty locked in for four years. But I'm always excited about where we do this. We do it upstate New York and It's on a 60 acre farm. I mean it's still a mansion is gorgeous like carriage house and everything in the middle of a 300 acre state forest. So you have to drive through like glorious waterfalls and like all this stuff to get there. It's so beautiful. So just being. I'm just excited to be there in May.

[37:20] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: Yes.

[37:20] Noelle Van: The weather is always perfect. There's like streams and like, there's saunas and like, you know, we do some cold plunges. You don't have to do any of the things that we do, but it's just, it's so remarkable. So I always get really excited in March and April leading up to that because it's just, it's something that I've tried to normalize. Like I don't look at it and I talk to people about it. I'm like this isn't a retreat like, you're retreating from your life. It's like, we come here, and we're like, all right, what works about this place for you? And for some people, they're like, oh, my God. I just. I didn't realize how much. How many more trees I need in my life. So we're okay. Get a little plant for your desk. Like, little things like that is like, oh, community. Or, oh, this. Kind of like, being really conscious of what I'm bringing into my language, because we watch language a lot on how we talk about ourselves and what we're up to. And it's like, how do we normalize the experience here and. And make our lives more like this awesomeness, rather than retreat from our lives, Have a nice time and go back and forget about it. Right? Or just look at pictures. So it's really like a normalization transformation weekend. And so, yeah, that is what I'm.

[38:26] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: And that's such a community of people, right? I mean, like, you have probably people, like you said, have come back time and again. So, you know everybody that. I mean, not everybody, but, you know, people. You've got a core groups that. I don't know. I always get chills with those kinds of experiences, because I think we have

[38:39] Noelle Van: a retreat support team and everything. So it's like a family. We have the same chefs come every year. They are. They cook organic. They're a French couple, and they. They literally yell at you in French when you're in the kitchen. They're adorable. We love them so much, and I will never not hire them. So they're coming back, and the food is amazing. We had this one guy is, like, total country artist. Like, dude with the boots and the hat, like, all the way, like, big guy. And he. You know, he was like in the food form because everyone fills out preference forms for rooms and foods and activities and stuff, so I can really cater the event to that. He's like, I like hamburgers. And I was like, oh, boy. I mean, we. We definitely. We have meat there and stuff like that, but. And he said at the end of this, he's like, I did not think I would like green things as much as I do. So we have. We have a. We get a little bit of something for everybody, but, oh, my gosh.

[39:30] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: And especially. I know that too. It's like when you. When you have food cooked well, which. You know what I mean? You're like, oh, my God, I never thought that sweet potato would taste this great or whatever it is.

[39:41] Noelle Van: Oh, my Gosh. But it's. Yeah, yeah. My husband comes because he's also trauma informed coach. He's actually an international mountain guide. And he comes and does a really cool talk on risk, how it applies to entrepreneurship and creativity and everything. And he. So he comes in every time he comes, like, we're always like, do we want to get a chef for, like, what's our next, like, hire for? For our, like, is that our. Do we want a chef? Like, we, like, four years in a row? That conversation happened a week after every single day. Important.

[40:08] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: That is an important part of the experience. Cheryl, this has been so fun. I love what you do. I have already started listening to your music and will continue because I think what you're doing is amazing and it's continuing to evolve. So that's really cool. But also just what you're doing with people, we need it now more than anything. I mean, you know, I don't mean to sound like on a platform, but we do need. We need it. We just need more people to be paying attention and being able to be really purposeful about how they're feeling every day. Because we can't rely on all the outside stuff to dictate that for us. We just can't. So, Cheryl, thank you again. It was such a pleasure to have you here with us.

[40:47] Noelle Van: Thank you so much for having me. It's been. It's been really fun. This is great.

[40:50] Cheryl B. Engelhardt: It has been fun. All right, well, that's it for now. Until next time.