Michael Kamphuis

This episode features Mike Kamphuis, whose remarkable path to leadership in Conn-Selmer is anything but conventional. From working sprint-car pit crews and running a DJ business to announcing early ultimate fighting events and competing at a high level in bowling, Mike shares how an unusual series of opportunities shaped the mindset that now drives his work in music education.

What makes the conversation compelling is how those seemingly unrelated experiences connect through one consistent theme: a willingness to say yes, figure things out, and build solutions where none yet exist. That same mindset later fueled his work developing new systems inside Conn-Selmer—from modernizing parts access and product support to helping create educational tools and services that directly support teachers and school music programs across the country.

The episode also explores how Mike’s original goal of becoming a band director evolved into a broader mission of serving music educators at scale. Through stories about mentorship, industry change, advocacy, and the future of school music, the conversation becomes a larger reflection on leadership, adaptability, and why innovation in education often begins with listening first and acting second.

Learn More About Michael Here:

https://artists.ludwig-drums.com/en-us/education/clinician/profile/michael-kamphuis

https://connselmer.com/news/changes-to-leadership

Watch Tim Gleason Dance Here:

https://youtu.be/PH8dv-yDT1U?si=eBA4YlLvKKrC2Und

Credits:

Why There Is No Trumpet Christmas - YouTube Video https://youtu.be/kfodl1g_ibY?si=mJiXNP6ZF9TbqETu

REGISTER NOW:

2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

BUILDING BETTER BANDS DAY (MAY 23):

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education

RISING MUSIC EDUCATOR PROGRAM (MAY 22):

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

FREE MUSIC: 

Wisconsin Arts Celebration Project (Marie Douglas “Yellow Birds”)

https://dpi.wi.gov/fine-arts/wisconsin-arts-celebration-project-0

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:07

Hey commuter, welcome back. Douglas Adams once said, I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by. The deadline for the Band Rising Music Educator Program and the Building Better Bands Day is this coming Friday, April 10th. The deadline for the 2027 Commission Possible Project with Adrian Sims is May 15th. Learn more at our website at btnmusicfestival.com. We are grateful to all of our sponsors, especially Con Selmer, for their support. Now on to the show. Are you kidding me? Life changing. Life changing. So good. Nice. Esteban, that dude can play anything. I mean, like, just perfection. I mean, when I start with a trumpet player, you know that's saying something. You know what I mean? Like I didn't, although I have to admit, all I watched was the tuba players. I mean, like, Miles and I were elbowing each other, like, hey, just grab the F. That's the firebird. Yeah, we're we're geeks, but it was fun. Mickey sounded great. Oh man, we got a big hug at the end and got to talk and brought brought Gene Picorney a cherry pie from Norskinook. Sponsor, not a sponsor. Should be a sponsor. I'm gonna look into that. That'd be a good sponsor. Gene got that cherry pie and he just went, oh my. Oh, you're serious. Oh no, like for a minute, he's like, you don't know what this means. Like Actually, I do, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten that for you. Oh my, this is this is something. I love it. Anyway, yeah, that was a good time. And then um it only to be outdone by one other ensemble, and that is uh Phil's band. It sounded great last night. His microphone skills not so much, but the band made up. How about his Valve Trombone solo? Was that good? No, he said he lost it next time. Yeah. That's why I gave him a donation.

SPEAKER_04 2:26

Phil? Uh hey, I have seen a lot of the Gleason family uh this year. One could say too much. I've I've seen a lot of them. And uh it's it's a great thing.

SPEAKER_06 2:40

Great thing. A lot more. We're moving in. So we're down to the case. Moorhead's uh high school just won the state hockey.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

I don't think we can all fit. I don't think double overtime. Moorhead did win. Double overtime. Did win this the state the state hockey tournament. It's pretty exciting. Two years in a row now. That it did. Yes. And it's a little disappointing that last year they beat um the Stillwater ponies. That's uh was not not a preferred outcome last year. I'll write that down. Yeah, still ponies.

SPEAKER_05 3:07

I know. I know, right? I had so many things they could be, but they're the ponies. Just the little horse. Like, who picked the pony?

SPEAKER_06 3:13

The only thing works would be like the starfish or something. I mean, like ponies. So Peter Oh no, here come the ponies. Run, fear the ponies. I'll put a sound effect in there, and that'll be good. Keep going.

SPEAKER_05 3:27

We're potatoes, so that doesn't matter. Or corn. We're nothing but vegetables up here.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

Uh yeah. Did you see like uh on the on the broadcast? There's the potato, the guy somebody dressed up as a potato. I like it. That was good. Uh Lydia was at the championship game last night.

SPEAKER_08 3:41

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

She was there. She got some extra extra tickets from somebody, right? That's good. Um I was not. I was conducting and listening to a fine concert. The home concert's done. How was tour? Tour was absolutely fabulous. Um I uh our tours have changed for the our our one commuter listening. Uh that pretty much everywhere we stop, we do some sort of side-by-side type experience. And I have really grown to enjoy the tours way, way more because of that fact. That's nice to get out and perform, but it uh to develop and cultivate some relationships with students and perhaps encourage them to perform further past high school or from middle school into high school, that that is a worthy endeavor. You know, you can't do it enough. Um we had a lot of really wonderful hosts, a lot of people that sort of took a took us in for you know a period of time or two hours and then watched my ensemble devour like boxes of pizza in literally like eight minutes flat. No, it's beautiful. Who can down 20 boxes of pizza in eight minutes? College kids. Yes. Those were the question for you. I'm wondering, have you have you developed any are there any sort of plans in place for a pajama uh sponsor for the podcast? It seems like we ought to have one. We ought to have one.

SPEAKER_05 5:00

So this this uh place the pies that we gotta reach out to them. I think we just need to reach out. What are the best pajamas? Who do I have to contact about the best pajamas? Uh Eddie Bauer? You sure? Seems like a fine sabbatical endeavor. I'll look into that. I'll do some research on my sabbatical.

SPEAKER_06 5:20

I might look into Black and Decker. Best men's pajamas. Yeah. Or there's that clothing section when you walk into Menards, you know what I'm talking about, right? That's our level. We should go with Menards. Start tested by men's health entry level.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Best men's pajamas. Here we go. You got there. Yeah, commuters tuning in for hot information. Hot information. Just very important stuff here. Tested. Land's end. Land's end. It's too nice.

SPEAKER_05 5:50

Tommy Johns. We need to be the sponsor. Cozy Earth. Corduroy Count Rack. Brooks Brothers. Corduroy pajamas. I don't think Brooks Brothers is going to sponsor us.

SPEAKER_06 6:00

I can't believe you're actually taking time to look at the bottom. You don't seem to be doing anything else. Hey, we also got a chance to Yeah, I am doing stuff. You know what I did? I wrote a new tagline for us. Okay, get a load of that. You didn't run it by us. Oh no, this is good. Here we go. Welcome to Beyond Artless, the podcast where artistry meets authenticity, where we go beyond the surface into the craft, the calling, and the stories that shape extraordinary creative lives.

SPEAKER_05 6:28

Okay, that's actually pretty good, except for the reading. You use beyond twice. You have to like we go beyond the notes, we go be we go deeper, we go further. No, yeah. How about just like beyond the banter? We don't. That's I mean, that would be awesome.

SPEAKER_06 6:44

People tune in for this part. I want to change my name to Klaus.

SPEAKER_05 6:48

Uh Chris, tell me your favorite thing about Phil's tour program and the band and the experience you saw. Or did you were you at the home concert? Were you at the home concert? Home concert. Home concert.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

Usually sometimes he does make an appearance at a tour performance, and uh it's usually a mildly embarrassing experience for me. Mostly. Not this year.

SPEAKER_06 7:09

Mostly embarrassing. Yeah. No. Really? You know, like I noticed, I've never seen him on the march, especially he was going like this. He's like, second inning, we gotta get out. Second ending. That was good. That's my my favorite moment. That was nice.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

By reaction time, I held up two fingers for most of the last drain. I've had that I've had that moment. I've had that moment. I in rehearsal I hold it, you know, way up here, you know, a foot above my head. Um, but in the concert, I felt like maybe that would send a message that I didn't need to.

SPEAKER_05 7:55

One of our guests in the chat has told me that the Tommy Johns um pajamas are the best, and so we're gonna have to talk about that more a little bit later.

SPEAKER_04 8:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 8:02

I mean, I they I still don't think they'll be our sponsor, but if I need to get new pajamas, now's the time to order. I'm only halfway through this. I gotta I gotta commit to somebody. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 8:11

This is uh slowly crashing.

SPEAKER_05 8:14

So we're gonna have we met since we were all together at the Encore concert. Oh, that's true. Look at the concert.

SPEAKER_06 8:20

But we previewed, remember, because we did it before the concert, but we said that we had gone to the concert. It was great. So that's okay. Let's go back to the Let's let's take let's take a minute uh to talk about the Encore concert.

SPEAKER_04 8:32

I think we should. We should talk about that. Uh I I had forgotten that Peter is somewhat like a trapped animal for at least an hour before any concert.

SPEAKER_06 8:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

And there's not caffeine needed.

SPEAKER_05 8:44

It's just a I'm all in on the focus and the energy, trying to put it to good use so that it doesn't just explode. I am not a person that usually gets done with a concert and is like, man, that was great. And minus me screwing up in the one piece, I felt that that concert went really, really well. I thought the audience really enjoyed it. Yeah. I had like four people text me after that concert. Like that was really and I was like, oh, something was right. Which was good. It was fun. Steve Campbell sounded great, great venue. Sounded good.

SPEAKER_06 9:14

It was a good venue. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah. Good programming. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

That's awesome. Pete Peter, you do a good job with those people in that group. You do. They make a nice sound.

SPEAKER_06 9:22

They make a nice sound. Yep. But you shape them, which is hard with cranky old adults. Don't tell me what it's like. They're always right. That's right. Don't don't don't put me in a corner. I can play louder. The tubas were nice even in the ensemble.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

I was in the middle of a clinic this week and I I stopped a group for a minute and I just was quiet. I said, you know, trumpets, it's not a competition.

SPEAKER_06 9:50

Oh, it is.

SPEAKER_05 9:51

It's always a competition. It could be a competition. It always means a competition. It's not because I've already won. That's why it's not a competition.

SPEAKER_06 10:05

That's all.

SPEAKER_05 10:07

That's what the trumpets will be.

SPEAKER_06 10:09

Okay. Here we go. I'm pivoting because we gotta go. We got important people here. 50 people in a band room. I mean, good golly. All right, here we go. The person, our guest this evening, used to run a business under the stage name of DJMK. This person worked in a pit crew as a gas and tire man. That's I want that job. This person won. Yeah, this is more impressive. They won their third grade spelling B. I know we've got one up. Wow, file one. Okay, this will this will get you. Moonlighted as a ring announcer for ultimate fighting.

unknown 10:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_06 10:44

These are very strong. Write that down. We got to come. This is great. What a life. And now they're in music. Yep. Yep. This person resides in Schoolcraft, Michigan with his wife Sarah and two daughters, Sadie and Nora. Born and raised in Kenosha, Wisconsin, is among this person's accolades. In 2018, he received the Distinguished Alumni Award for Achievement from the University of Wisconsin at Parkside. Oh. In 2016, this person received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Elkhart Jazz Festival and the Distinguished Service Award from the Historically Black Colleges and Universities National Band Directors Consortium. He was part of the advocacy effort that helped pass the Every Student Succeeds Act bill in December of 2015. He has held many different positions within the company that he works for. I'll just give you a few titles. Accessories Product Manager, Product Manager for Flutes, Director of Marketing for Brass, Senior Director of Product Marketing. Oh, and currently, he is the vice president in the Division of Education at Conn Selmer Incorporated, an Elkhart, Indiana-based music company manufacturer. In his role, he leads a team with the mission to create opportunities for the music industry and music education to work collaboratively in support of music education worldwide. Gentlemen, and I use that term loosely. This is Michael Campius. Hello, Michael. We met at Midwest. That's right. Absolutely. Picked you out of that uh beautiful spot that we had right on uh Michigan Ave there. Well, it's great to have you guys there.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Good to be here with you all. Thanks for having me. Of course. How do you like that? Thanks for taking the time.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

Sorry about our banter. That's awkward.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Well, there's something some about cherry pie and pajamas right now. I just feel like I gotta research that and really baby dude. I left the tab open, by the way, so I'll just get to that later.

SPEAKER_05 12:39

But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These are the cutting-edge things which we get deep. Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_06 12:44

Yeah, this is it. Pit crew.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Start. We're starting there. What what is the pit crew game? So so my best, my best friend growing up, Jim Capps, uh, I met him in the eighth grade, and his uncle uh was a sprint car driver. Uh, if you if you know anything about like World of Outlaws, those wing sprint cars on dirt tracks that go like 130 miles an hour. So I used to go watch it out at Wilmot Racetrack in Kenosha County there. And uh when I got to be 16, they allowed us to go back in the pit. And then one day they were shorthanded. His uncle turns to me and Jim and says, Hey, can one of you fill up the gas and the other one do the tire? And then before you know it, I ended up doing that for like the next couple years. It was like not just that night. I kind of I kind of enjoyed the rush of what was going on. It was something different, and uh to be kind of part of the team was was a cool thing. But uh uh did that did that for a couple years with with my buddy that uh whose uncle was a driver. So that was a good time. Yeah, it's awesome. Any one of spelling bee.

SPEAKER_06 13:42

Anyone a spelling bee and the ultimate fighting. Now, what's going on there? I mean, this is the hard-hitting journalism.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

You know, it's my my uh my college uh path was a little bit of forest gumpish, but it it was it was along that lines where when I was going to Parkside, I uh uh, you know, I have two wonderful word hardworking parents, and we had that kitchen table conversation when I was 18. And I said, you know, I want to be a uh band direct, I want to go into music. And they're like, uh, you should go into business. So I it's kind of like uh didn't didn't really win that uh that battle, unfortunately. And uh so I went into my first semester at Parkside and was in business. They let me keep my foot in the jazz ensemble, so I'm a trump trumpet player and uh still still get to play. And uh uh so I was thankful they let me keep playing. And um during my freshman year, uh I was working for a guy putting in security systems in like dental offices and things like that, the domes with the cameras underneath and all that. And he comes to me one day he says, Hey Mike, uh, you know, uh we're moving to Arizona, and my son owns this little entertainment business where he's like booking bands and and he's DJing and doing karaoke and stuff like that. What would you think about you know taking that over? And you know, here I am, 18 freshman in college. How do you think that's gonna sound to me? Yeah, that's that's a pretty yeah, I much prefer that versus you know putting in these security systems and stuff. So he gave me a year to pay it off. And this is November of my freshman year. I paid it off by like March. I just worked my tail off, and before you know it, I had my own business going. And this is where uh you know the ring announcing kind of comes into play too, because I started DJing all these weddings and so forth. Uh, one night, I'm at a gig and it's like 11:30 at night, you know, everybody's done and I'm packing up gear. This guy comes up to me, hey, you know, I really like your voice. You ever thought of ring announcing? And I'm like, sure, what what did you have in mind? You know, let's let's talk about that. You know, it's like, well, there's this thing coming to uh southeastern Wisconsin. This is back in the early uh 1996 or so. Uh he said, Yeah, there's this thing called Ultimate Fighting coming to Southeastern Wisconsin. I think you have a great voice, you'd be great for it. I'm like, okay, sign me up. Well, when is it? It's in a month. Before you know it, I'm backstages, they're signing their life away that they might get killed, and I got a tuxedo on, and I'm ready to ladies and gentlemen, out in the ring and and do it, do it. And uh, but yeah, it's just uh I've had a lot of unique opportunities like that come my way through just different points prior to getting into the music industry. So that that was just one of them.

SPEAKER_05 16:09

So I'm gonna go back to that table conversation because you just that is your life, right? Like you wanted to be in music and a band director, and they on the business side, and now look at you.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Yeah, it's kind of summer education. Yeah, if you think about it, I bought a business to get out of business to get into music ed, too. Because what happened that that freshman year, my parents were so enthralled by what was happening. You know, they were like, wow, this is really taking off, you know. So I guess maybe the music path is the right way to go. So then I declared my music ed degree that freshman year because I I was doing so much in music. And uh so it kind of helped me do an end around a little bit, so to speak, by by doing that. And uh, you know, I did different things too. Like I uh got a call one day from a gentleman who's a full-scale illusionist, he's still very active, named Bill Blagg. And uh I had uh done his sister's wedding, and he calls me up on a Thursday saying, Hey, I got this gig on Saturday in Lake County, Illinois. My sound and light engineer bailed. You think you can help me out? And I'm like thinking to myself, I'm not even near a sound and light engineer, but well, what did you have in mind? What can I do to help? He's like, Well, uh, we'll do a dress rehearsal uh tonight on Thursday, and then I got a gig at College of Lake County on Saturday, you can help me out, it'll be great. So I show up and I'm sweating bullets because it's back in the day of like park hands and go buttons. There's no computerization at all, you know. So if I hit the wrong light at any given time, it's like magic revealed. And uh fortunately, I got through it, I passed the test and we did the gig, everything went great. So then for three, four years after that, I did probably one or two gigs a month for him, uh, where I was able to fill in time doing that as well. And then uh when I got to right before my fifth year of college, uh I I got sat down, I think it was that March or April, they said with the Ed program being separate from the music department, unfortunately you're gonna have to either wait a year, get your performance degree or transfer because we can't finish off this ed side of it uh in the fifth year. So I had to kind of figure out, you know, where where am I going with all of this? Uh had my own business going and so forth. And, you know, I had probably one of the craziest fifth years. And my both my parents said it was like a race to the finish line because I just took on so much. Uh and and I and you know, I I can kind of say that I'm still kind of like that in a way, even in my career. I like taking on a lot of things at the same time and and pushing things forward. But my fifth year of college, I was like, well, if I'm gonna finish a performance degree, because that's what I decided to do at Parkside, I uh got elected president of the student organization council. So they're like, here, you can have your own office on campus, and I approve budgets for 350 clubs. And then a couple months after that, I got approached by the activity center. They said, Hey, the head of the student union resigned. Can you run that too? Sure, why not? So I had a second office on campus, and and I was just you know doing all this stuff, and I created a year-end festival for people. Still doesn't even have one office on campus right now. No. Closet. And uh, but they they kind of gave me just you know, you you do you do you, and I created a year-end festival for the university that went on for about 12, 15 years after I left and created a lot of different activities for the university. Music Club had a great budget that year, by the way. We took care of that pretty good. But you know, it all goes back to quite honestly, my eighth grade band director. My uh in Kenosha, it was a junior high, so we had seven, eight, nine, and then ten, eleven, twelve for high school. Daryl Schneider was uh, you know, a big influence to me early on. Uh I think he retired in Appleton and left uh Kenosha not too long after I got done with junior high. But uh, you know, he took me under his wing in seventh grade. I was kind of a late bloomer compared to a lot of my friends. You know, they started in fifth, sixth grade, and I saw the selective in seventh grade, and either of my parents were really, you know, into music that much, and they're like, well, what does this mean, playing an instrument? So I remember showing up for the first session, and and Daryl Schneider throws a sousaphone on my shoulder and says, Here you go, son. And I'm looking at my mom, I'm like, Yeah, I'm a husky kid, and so forth. I was like, what about percussion or sex? So not too many, and then picked up the trumpet finally, and and uh that's the one I went from G to C back down and loved it. Took me under his wing, and uh, you know, we had seven beginners because everyone else had kind of already started. And by the end of that beginner year, I remember him uh coming to me and saying, you know what, Mike, I think you can be in symphonic band next year. So I went beginner to top band, and after that, I'm like, I love this. I want to keep going in music. So that that's really what kind of set me down that track. So I'm seeing a through line here.

SPEAKER_06 20:35

Uh I don't know if the other two guys have uh kind of observed this as well, but whatever you start, you tend to excel at. I mean, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_05 20:46

You say yes way too often. Yeah, yeah. And you you just figured out how to get it done. I like that.

SPEAKER_04 20:52

Yeah, it sounds to me like a fabulous blend of uh of uh curiosity and uh just work ethic and grind, you know. I uh I uh which uh what do you describe it more as? The curiosity part or the hard hard work part?

SPEAKER_02 21:08

For me, I think it's a little of both. I like the variety of different things. And you know, I I learned, I think, early on that you know, if something seems impossible, I've never I've never used the word impossible. It's always kind of like I I always start at, you know, let's figure this out. You know, I I think there's a way to make this happen. And I've always just kind of had that attitude, like um, even though it might not be, you know, something that I know how to do right now, can I learn? Is it something I can help with? Is it something I can make it make it good, you know? And and uh I think the the not saying no, you know, I I find myself, I have I have two daughters, 17 and and 10, and I find myself with my junior in high school teaching her how to say no because she's got a little bit of that DNA being passed on, and it's like, you know, now I find that we're driving her here, there, and everywhere. And it's like, oh, I see, yeah. So the apple didn't fall far from the tree. In regards to taking on activities. But um Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I would say I love the variety and and and the learning experience you get from all those new experiences too.

SPEAKER_06 22:10

Well, it's in variety, like your different roles in Khan Selmer. How did you get started with Khan Somer? How was how how'd that all start?

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah, so it after that fifth year of college, I got my performance degree, and naturally the first thing you do when you graduate is you join the Pro Bowlers tour. You know, that was my catalyst to it's a this is a a whole other part of my forced dump journey. So um I I shot my first 300 game when I was 16, and my mother was a are you are you just are you just being serious? This is all it's all fabricated, you know.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

I'll come up and start talking about rock bumping. Five minutes before the podcast. And this sounds good.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Cut our banter and just put in all these stories. Well, you know, bowling in Wisconsin is a thing. You know, the headquarters is in Milwaukee. And uh so you know, when I was like five or six years old, my mother bowled this Thursday morning league and she would put me on the end lane while she was bowling her league. And before you know it, I caught on a little bit. And then, you know, by the time I was 12, I remember my dad get frustrated because I started beating him. And then by the time I got to be 15, 16, I shot my first 300 game, and then uh Parkside had a bowling team. So when I was running that student organization council too, we did about 15-20 tournaments and went to Las Vegas and bowled while I was doing all that other stuff as well. That was kind of a whole side thing during college. And my fifth year, I ended up winning the singles title uh in Omaha, Nebraska. Uh so I was kind of riding that high a little bit. So I'm like, all right, where do I go with this? So I tried the regional pro bowlers tour, and this is where the whole industry side kicks in. Believe it or not, this does lead to that. So I'm I'm six, seven months into the regional PBA tour, and you know, I'm bowling with the likes of you know Pete Weber and all these guys, and I qualified for the national tour, and to do that, I had to get a headshot for the program. And I remember uh there's a uh little photo studio in Kenosha called Roadie's Photoshop because this is before I could take my own headshot and send it in. And I'm pulling into cross traffic and I got broadsided by a station wagon about a block down from the photo studio, totaled my car. You know, I'm up over a stop sign. I remember standing on that curb staring at my total Plymouth Sundance and kicking the tires and just, you know, it was it's kind of like a two by four moment where you get hit over the head and be like, you know what, you're going in the wrong direction, young man. And uh I kind of took a step back and looked at life right then and said, you know, do I really want to bowl the rest of my life? And is that really where I'm going with all that? You know, and you just start kind of looking at where things align. And, you know, for me, it was like music is something I know I can do the rest of my life and something I want to be a part of. And, you know, I still had a lot of things going on with that. That was actually supporting my little hobby there with bowling. So I took a step back and I started a trumpet studio at uh Poseites Music down there in Kenosha, had about uh 15 students down there, and uh was still doing the DJ thing and still had all those other connections and kind of poured myself back into there. I was teaching Racine Scouts, drum and bugle chord, a little chrome domes back then, and uh really enjoyed that. And then I happened to be at a dinner and uh not knowing this because it was with a few colleagues and friends from the local community, across the table from me was a gentleman named Sal Cardello, and he's the he was the vice president of LeBlanc at the time. LeBlanc is you know a very legendary manufacturer of the music industry, now part of Con Selmer. So I shared with Sal my forced Gump story that I just shared with you all. And I remember Sal just kind of leaning back in his chair in a little bit, and he says, So, Mike, what are you doing for a day job? And I'm like, uh, well, well, Sal, uh nothing right now. You know, I have all these different things going on right now. Why what are you thinking? He's like, Well, what would you think about working at LeBlanc? And uh, if you know the history of LeBlanc, it's you know, Vito Pascucci, the founder, very Italian company. So, Sal, you know, good Sicilian guy too. You know, you have this kind of manner, Sicilian uh mannerisms, and and I go, Well, what would I do for you, Sal? He's like, I don't know, but you'll start in two weeks and we'll figure it out. I'm like, Yes, sir. So excuse me, 26 years ago, um, you know, that's that's the beginning of my foot into the industry. And I remember showing up for work at LeBlanc, and um, you know, Bito, Bito Pascucci was still there. He was probably 77 years old at the time. And uh, you know, for a young pup coming out of college like myself, it was suit and tie every day. And uh, you know, Bito was uh, I think it was People Magazine, top 10, best dressed, uh, you know, always rated in that and so forth. And uh uh they put me in an entry-level position. You wouldn't hear this title today called telemarketing manager. You know, that that was the role. But essentially what it was was they gave me flexibility to go fix things, and that's kind of how my career has been. You know, you kind of heard what what happened in college, but in in my career, I've been able to kind of pave my way a little bit, and that's been really, really fun. At LeBlanc, I got to create a parts website for the company because they had a binder for all their dealers that was about that thick that had you know all the thousands of parts that you could order for the different keys on the clarinet and all that good stuff. And I was like, hey, it's it's the year 2000. There is the internet, we can maybe do something with that. So I would pull apart a trumpet, and we had a really talented web guy upstairs in the creative team at LeBlanc that would take a picture of the instrument. And before you know it, we created you know one of those earlier shopping cart systems for our dealers to be able to go online and and see all the parts, and and then our call volume went down quite significantly because we had a good resource. So, like, hey, you know that part site you fixed, can you fix our accessory business? There's some things going on there. And then I would jump over to that, and then they they bought a flute brand uh about three years later, and they said, Hey, we brought this flute brand, can you get that started, get it going? And and uh, but that's that's really how I I first got into the industry was through LeBlanc, and uh, you know, very very grateful for the opportunity that they gave me and and for being there at a time too, where you still had one of the patriarchs of one of the brands, veto there, to be able to hear the stories firsthand of how the company got started, and and uh you know, I with that I feel kind of a responsibility of my generation to kind of carry on that that legacy with the company. Love that.

SPEAKER_06 28:20

Yeah, that's beautiful. Toxic guy. Yeah. So what and talking about that, Con Selmer, I mean, over the last how over those 20 some years, you know, like what are some of the biggest changes that you've seen in the industry or even specific with Con Selmer?

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Wow, it's you know, I I came in at a very unique time because you know, our industry's been consolidating quite a bit. And when I first got to Con Selmer, um which happened in 2004, Vito had passed away in August 2003, and uh it and it was kind of a sudden thing too. We came to work one day and Vito had passed away, uh just some health complications. And uh a year after that, uh Con Selmer had acquired LeBlanc in August 2004, and I remember coming to the Rose Garden that LeBlanc had, and and our former CO John Stoner and Leon Pascucci, Vito's son, were back there, you know, about it's a new day for LeBlanc, and uh we're gonna be part of Con Selmer. And uh I think everyone thought at the onset they were saying nothing's gonna change, but you know, it's kind of like when things like that happen, consolidation happens eventually. By 2008, LeBlanc moved to Elkart fully. I moved to Elkart October 2004. Out of the 500 employees, I was one of four that actually went to Con Selmer out of 500 that were at LeBlanc at that time. So um, so the consolidation, I've been a part of that in the industry uh through that move. And uh I know in the community in Kenosha that was tough at that time. It was tough for me to make that decision. Um but again, I you know, I feel a responsibility of carrying on that history. And uh the biggest thing I saw is by the time I got there in 04, LeBlanc or Con Summer had 43 brands. You know, so think of that as a company to market 43 brands. You know, it's like I have I have eight flute brands. Which which one can I show you today? You know, it's like uh you know, with it was crazy. And everyone was uh you had you had two companies, you had United Musical Instruments that had merged right before then with the Selmer Company. So you had all these brands come together, and you s they still had, even when I got there, they still had people from both sides, so they were kind of fighting each other a little bit. So there had to be this uh one team, one goal. How do we put that together for the good of the company? And I think John Stoner, our former CEO, did did a great job of creating a culture. Um you know, so that over my time, you know, seeing the the brands all come together um has been interesting. Seeing the change in the manufacturing footprint, seeing the change in um, you know, just the global aspect. We have more competitors now that are over in Asia. You know, if you look at the map, you have Con Summer, Elkart, Monroe, North Carolina, East Lake Ohio, and then you have everybody else way over in Asia. And that creates a lot of different dynamics too in regards to manufacturing. Um, but I think you know, the more that we can focus on, you know, our portfolio, make it simpler for the educator to understand, uh, we'll be in we'll be in great shape. And I I feel like we're heading in a great direction, but that's probably been the most difficult piece and change, at least on the the consumer side of things. Um in music education, you know, that's been an ever-changing landscape too. And you know, uh listening to the the community now versus you know 25 years ago, it's it's a much different ballgame, you know, and I think the pandemic spun up a lot of th or I should say sped up a lot of different things too that maybe weren't on our radar and and should have been. But you know, I think what we're dealing with now is a is an environment where you have birth rate decline, you have um teachers that are music education students in college that need more mentoring to make sure that they get out into the marketplace. You know, how do we get more teachers into the profession and do that? Uh so mentoring is top of mind with us as well as we're thinking of our initiatives uh more than ever. And then just creating the accessibility in the spaces where it currently isn't. You know, it's it we're a very unique country, and you know, I work for a company where CG Khan in the 1920s was one of the first instigators of school music. You know, he put instruments into school saying, Hey, I think this is a good idea. Um so I feel a responsibility that uh we have to be a catalyst too to make sure that we can do things to help that um across the country and and do things from an advocacy standpoint that continue to explain to education. You know, it feels like uh I know it feels like we're in a hamster wheel sometimes saying our message, but um, you know, the truth of the matter is I I I really feel that music does a lot to create a well-rounded citizen in all of our states in in the union, so to speak. And I think the more that uh you know industry and education can partner together, that's that's gonna help now. But I I think the people that did this before us for the last 25 years, you know, I think we got we had a rhythm down and it was kind of comfortable. And I think now we're in a place where it's a little more uncomfortable and we have to lift each other up more right right now, more than ever.

SPEAKER_05 33:23

Michael, how long have you been in uh the division of education, the president or vice president, excuse me?

SPEAKER_02 33:28

So I've uh it was kind of an interesting pivot in my career. So I did product development uh from 2005 till about uh 2013. And Dr. Tim Lotzenheiser, who I know is a guest on your show not too long ago, um a big mentor of mine for the last 20 years, he and uh our former CEO John Stoner, they called me into the CEO's office one day, and this is June of 2013, and said, You know, Mike, um, Dr. Tim and I have been talking. We want to create a division of education. We don't know what that looks like, but we think you're the guy to figure it out. So it was kind of one of those, it's you know, going back to that telemarketing manager day, it's kind of a similar uh similar concept. And then I went back to my wife that night and I said, you know, dear, I think I have a new job. And she goes, What is it? Well, it's a division of education. She said, Well, what does that mean? And I said, I don't know yet. I have to figure it out. So, you know, I I put but the conversation I had, you know, for me if it it was really full circle. You know, I I wanted to be a band director, never really quite had that opportunity. And with all the experience I had in product development and running business and all of that through the first years of my career, I'm like, boy, I can do a lot of good to help music educators from my from my purview. So um I really started in 20, it started in 2013. And it was for me, you know, I have a golden rule for myself is is always you listen, you learn, and then you take action. You know, if you just jump out and say, I'm gonna go do this, and you don't quite understand, it's like it's never quite gonna go right. So I just started visiting school districts all over the country. We started bringing educators to Elkhart to see the factories, and it was just about listening. You know, what what's going on in your program? You know, what what do you need help with? What what support do you need? Uh when you have the opportunity to do that to 2,500 music educators over the course of you know six, seven years, you learn a thing or two. And uh, you know, the biggest thing is the the time, all the off-the-podium stuff was really uh evident in every conversation we had. You know, just uh um everything from how do I cut a PO to how do I take inventory to how do I get more kids in my program and recruitment and you name it. So that was a catalyst a lot for our Division of Education Clinician program. You know, we're we started really with about 15 uh that we had from our Con Silmer Institute that uh Dr. Tim started back in 1997. That's really our flagship event. Uh we started with a group of 15 folks, so we just started deploying them across the country. You know, I would hear a problem, hey Dick Sasedo, can you go help this person? Hey, Paula Kreider, can you go help here? You know, and and start connecting the dots that way. Uh that started, you know, getting more and more, and we had more requests, and then it it built up over time. Um and then one of the things I heard is you know, the whole uh budgeting process in school districts. It always seemed like we were in the arts and afterthought. You know, it's like, yeah, the budget came through, they never talked to me, and I kind of got the leftovers. And it's like, well, you shouldn't be getting leftovers, you should be with in the meal somewhere, you know. So um I took the attitude of how do we become more consultative towards music education to be a resource where we can help with some of that. So, you know, creating budgets and things like that are I I like doing things like that. And uh I ended up uh the company supported me creating an inventory system that we gave for free to school districts all over the country that helped them uh be able to put their assets together and and so forth. And they were spending, you know, anywhere from 40,000 a year to even some bigger districts,$250,000 on an asset management system to manage instruments, uh, but not effectively because it wasn't actually telling them, you know, what's the uh condition of the instruments, uh what's the actual value, and uh and all those things. So I said, hey, how about you get this for free and you tell them to take that 250 and give it to the kids and and and support it in the right place? And uh so that really became the catalyst then of our educational support manager positions. In fact, it was a it was a hallway conversation with our former CEO John Stoner. I was doing all this uh activities and he said, you know, Mike, you need some help. What could what kind of position could this be? And I'm just passing him in the hallway. I said, you know, it's really a like an educational support manager. He's like, All right, get that going next week. And so before you know it, I have a job description and I'm like, all right, yes, yes, sir. You know, it's so they they supported my entrepreneur spirit, so to speak, in building this division of education. So, and you know, Dr. Tim and I would talk daily, and remember even back then, he and I had those Nextel phones. You remember those things where you just beep in into somebody? So, like I I would be on the phone and Dr. Tim had his own Nextel. So I'd be talking, Mike, Mike, Mike. It's like, okay, Tim, I'll I'll get to you. Hang on, hang on, Tim. But uh, you know, there was a lot going on at the onset there. And you know, the biggest thing that that Tim and I always would talk about is it's it's time, communication, and excellence. You know, how do we spend our time doing the right things to move the needle forward? How do we communicate personally and go deep, you know, with with our relationships? You know, so I'm big about that with our team as well. You know, if we're gonna help music education, we can't just we can't just do flybys. You know, we we want to make sure that what we do has an impact and it sticks, and then make sure we do everything at a high level that we do do. So um, but yeah, so 2013 is when all that uh that all that came about. So we're in it now for 13 years, which is crazy to think about. Yeah, time to speeds up.

SPEAKER_06 38:58

Just speeds up. Um the thing that hits me when I hear you talk about this is like you're the right person in that right spot at the right time. I mean, we are how grateful, and I've seen different aspects of this. Heck, I've been on that factory tour twice, and I can tell you that that's profound for a music educator to see folks building those instruments and how much craftsmanship is involved in that and love and care and attention. It's second to none. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

Let me just let me just remind you, Chris, you're not getting a tuba out of this.

SPEAKER_06 39:30

There's no way just open.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

You just bought one, you don't you don't get a chance for another.

SPEAKER_06 39:36

Why not the con Susaphone?

SPEAKER_04 39:38

And now a message from our sponsors. Concert night. You've studied your scores, you've thoughtfully chosen your baton and outfit. The value of the instruments on stage is nearly priceless. You represent the composer, the musicians, and your institution. Behind you in the audience are your peers, proud family members, community, and even potential donors.

SPEAKER_06 39:57

My question is this: Are you standing on a squeaky, mass-produced podium that was bought long before you arrived? I know I've stood on that podium. A conductor's foundation should match their artistry.

SPEAKER_05 40:11

Well, I can tell you I'm not on that podium because I have two of these silent stage podiums, which are gracefully designed to complement the instruments but not distract from the music. They're built with American oak, elegant brass railings, sound dampening rubber-backed carpet and velvet red, and steps on both sides, which fold in easily for a smaller footprint when needed. Each podium is delivered in a street rolling case with a podium just five backstage bumps, dust, or even like we take these long ensemble tours.

SPEAKER_06 40:39

Commuter, elevate your presence with silent stage podium. Stay with me, Silent Stage Podiums. Find out more at SilentStagePodiums.com. Now back to our show. No, it is beautiful. I yeah, just grateful for uh all that work. Um, in fact, so grateful that we've created a speedrun for you. That's right. Um, unencumbered by thought, uh, don't think too deeply. Um, mimic Peter and Phil. All right, here we go. Um, number one, have you ever wanted to create a group called the Kenosha Kickers?

SPEAKER_02 41:16

I almost came close to doing that, but uh uh not not exactly that, but yeah. Uh almost did almost did something similar. See, I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. Um donuts or ice cream? Donuts. Pile's bakery in Kenosha. That's lots of good memories there. There we go. Do you know about tenudas in Kenosha? Absolutely. Tenudas and Ron's place. Those were the those were the hangs.

SPEAKER_05 41:41

Yeah. So I gotta get over there because I need more of their jardinera that the old ladies are making there. It's pretty amazing stuff. You can only get it there. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 41:50

Sponsor. Um, and then how about uh how about a memorable concert?

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Something you'll never forget. You know, for me, uh, this one's kind of near and dear to my heart, but uh my daughter started playing horn in the fifth grade uh in 2019, and then you know, six months, five, six months in the pandemic hit, and she basically took horn over Zoom for about two, two and a half years. Uh and with a horn teacher that really helped her out and so forth. And uh the biggest thing is uh for biggest concert for me is when we came out of the pandemic. Uh so she's in the seventh grade. Uh she got to play with uh Prep Winds uh where I live uh here in here in the Michigan area. And for the first time she got to play with 40 other kids, and they played Salvation is Created. And I remember after after all of that, I sat, I was I think I was the only parent in the audience sitting there, and I'm just like, she's up there, and I saw her play the first chord coming in, and she's like looking around while she's playing, and I and I I just melted. I mean that there's all these great, fabulous concerts I've seen, but there's nothing that's gonna top that one for me. It's awesome. Awesome. Favorite hobby? Favorite hobby right now. Um, you know, I gave up bowling. Like I gave up bowling with my first daughter, so that's no longer no longer a thing. Um but uh right now I think golf is probably my when I can do it. You know, I I don't have the opportunity to do it too much, maybe four or five times a year, but just being out on the course and open and have the phone tucked away for a little bit is uh is a treasure to have that a little bit of that time. Love it. Uh let's I got one real quick.

SPEAKER_04 43:24

Uh interrupt uh speedrun. Uh favorite brief Dr. Tim story.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

I like the one where he's uh uh I forget where he was going through he was going through Texas to get to Arizona during 9-11. And I remember he's uh everything was shut down, you know. So he had to he had to time it out. And I'm pretty sure he was in uh Missouri trying to get down to Arizona and he had to go through Texas to get there. And he said, if I can clock myself at 88 miles an hour, I can get there by the time I have to jump on stage down in Arizona. And as He was going through Texas. Uh he got pulled over by a state trooper. And you know, he does this little like, oh, this guy walking up behind his car and you know, coming to him. So why are you going so fast? And he explained to him what he was doing. And the state trooper kind of freaked out because he was a band director, you know, former band director. He's like, Well, my son plays trombone, and Dr. Tim gave his business card, and the guy ended up helping him get all the way through Texas to Arizona, you know, and called story. Called all the state troopers ahead of him and said, I'm going to spot you all the way through Texas. You'll be all right. And and all Tim had to do was blink his lights a couple times, and the state troopers would let him go all the way through. So he made it like 15 minutes before the start of his keynote in front of 1,200 kids, and they're all there ready to sing, you know, God bless America, because of what happened during 9-11 back then. So that that's probably that's the one that sticks with me the most. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. It's a great story. Uh cake or pie? You know, you mentioned the cherry pie earlier, but acted. That's yeah. You mentioned the cherry pie, but I I am really I really am a cake guy. Yeah. Yeah. That's all right.

SPEAKER_06 45:09

That's that's fair. That's fair. I won't tell Gene. Um uh how about a composer or a piece that's caught your fancy?

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Ooh. You know, for the first time, I heard uh uh Gene Sibelius number symphony number two uh recently. It's a it's a long work, but uh that was so cool. I really enjoyed that. Um I'm also a big Mahler fan. If I can hear Mahler with the Cleveland Orchestra or you know the Chicago Brass, you know, that that's probably my happy place as well. You don't have to ask the list of it.

SPEAKER_06 45:42

And then uh here's here's the last question, and that is Is Khan Summer interested in making a professional level Valve trombone? You know, we are working on a valve trombone.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

Um there you go. When if you need someone to play that concerto, Phil is Phil's like to nominate Phil. You'd be amazed at the requests we get from the Banda uh uh market and uh Latin America and yeah, a lot of valve trombone work in there. Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_06 46:10

Yeah, yeah. That's right. You do. It's exactly right. You do. Yeah, I love it. Um, I tell you, uh, Michael, it's it's amazing. I think of uh when I think about everything you said, I think about the word innovation, and that's exactly the place in which you are, and that is to see a problem, to come up with a creative novel solution that's that's gonna be useful to others. And thank goodness you have done everything that bowling led you to Con Selmer. I mean, what a great story. I love it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 46:41

I but I I think uh I think of divergent. I think you see the same problem everybody else sees, but not only do you see opportunity, but you ask the right questions. You can I love that idea. What was that? You uh listen and learn, and then you you take action. Uh I don't care if that's from uh you know martial arts or the racetrack or bowling or you name it, um uh all the things that you've done that's that's helped, and you are absolutely in the right place, and we can really use you and have been. It's been great to have you help guide that shift for us in the music world. Thanks. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

No, it's it's been good hanging with you all. And yeah, no, I I'm blessed to be a part of this industry and uh you know just very thankful to have the time with you all today. Appreciate it. Well, thanks, Mike.

SPEAKER_05 47:32

What an interesting person story.

SPEAKER_04 47:35

This uh a musical Mr. Fix It. You know?

SPEAKER_05 47:39

But not even just in music and all the different things he's done. I think that's really interesting. People see that character trait in him and go get him and thank God, you know, we got him on the music side doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_06 47:50

Well, and to think in a way that's like what can we to listen? I mean, honestly, to have the humility to say, let's listen to these educators. I mean, that means so much to teachers who often don't get listened to. They get told what to do constantly. But um and to have the heart, you know what I mean? Um again, and that comes a lot from Dr. Tim, too, but it's like um bowling. Yeah, and bowling. Oh my gosh, what a story.

SPEAKER_04 48:18

300 you uh Peter, you and Chris have uh both heard this story more than one time, but I'm always fond of telling people that my grandfather um was regional manager on the Eastern Seaboard for CGCon in the 1940s. Oh, I did not yeah, I guess I do remember that now. Yep. So uh a full circle moment as I'm a Con Selmer artist.

SPEAKER_05 48:41

Yeah. But you still had to play trombone because your dad had one or your uncle had one.

SPEAKER_04 48:46

Uh I I had uh both my uh cousin's trombone and also my uncle's trombone. Um, which was one of the my uncle's trombone was one of the ones for my grandpa. Those instruments did not uh survive the turn of the times. Uh-huh. Sure.

SPEAKER_06 49:05

All right. Hey, well, we have three things to do. We gotta we gotta keep moving here. We got a boozler, we have a rap and with songer, and we got a coach. All right, what do you want first?

SPEAKER_05 49:15

Let's rap booze coach.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Raping with songers. It's time for rapping with songer. I'm here again with two of Dr. O'Shrander's favorite Autter Band kids, Amelia and Audra from the Eau Claire Auder Band Middle School Experience uh earlier this winter. And they brought some friends with them today, Hannah and Emily and Beta. And we have a great question for you today. Uh Amelia, you want to ask it here?

SPEAKER_03 49:40

Sure. Um, what is something that you don't like that you feel like everybody else likes?

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Oh, yeah, that's a great question. Can't wait to hear your answer, you guys. Have a great one. I'm ready.

SPEAKER_04 49:54

Okay, go for it. Ice ice cream. You don't like ice cream? That's it's okay.

SPEAKER_08 50:01

It's all right. It's okay.

SPEAKER_05 50:03

What? Oh my god, Phil. I'm a bad person. I I am there's something wrong with me. Inside something wrong with inside, you're a bad person. I know. I know. That's good.

SPEAKER_06 50:15

Social media. Oh, okay's uh trombone plane. Okay, let's get to the boozler. Um uh we didn't answer very well, but that's all right.

SPEAKER_05 50:26

I gotta think about that more.

SPEAKER_06 50:27

What don't I like? That's it. We could come back to it. That one could be let it simmer for a little bit. Um boozler. Bamboozler. Bamboozler. I've been told not to play recordings for my band as it might influence the way they perform the piece. How how often do you play recordings for your band and what are the impacts? Also, how often do you listen to recordings and do you listen to multiple sources and why? Well, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_05 50:59

I do listen to recordings early in the process for sure, and I try to listen to it as many possible ones and only once, if possible, right? Like I'd rather listen to a lot of different recordings. I get different perspectives. The more professional they are, the better. Um I do when I send out part assignments two weeks before we have a rehearsal, um, they get their parts, their assignments, and they get a reference recording to listen to. And I try to find one that is the best sounding, right? So it gives them the idea of what the sound of the piece should be. Um I don't care if it has a lot of great musical choices or not, because I can do that on top of if they come knowing what it's supposed to sound like and what their role is. When I thought of the public schools, I mean, of course they always could listen, but they never did. I would wait to play something for them until about two weeks into the process because then we've gone through the sight reading, we've gone through the rhythm, we've gone through the things that are important, and we have a reason that we're playing it. And then when they listen, they are listening not for the rhythm, but they're listening to the the sound world. And then it's a huge, it's a huge like injection or boost of energy towards what they need to do.

SPEAKER_04 52:19

Philip? How many reference recordings of Fun Tango do you have? Just seven. That's that's good. I the the Marine band version is clearly my favorite. It's it's it's pretty good. North Texas isn't bad either. Thank you, Ryan. Um my only comment, I yes, I play recordings for my band, and I yes, I do the reference recording thing two weeks before, like Peter does. Um however, um I don't like to take rehearsal time out to listen as a group because I want to play. Um but I if a critical mass of the ensemble doesn't know what the end goal is, you have to listen. There's no choice. You uh you know, if you've got too many people who are too lost, then you gotta stop, you gotta step back and say, All right, you guys chose you you chose not to listen to it on your own. So now I know you're not playing. It's the our our folks that did listen to the piece are frustrated. But there's something to be gained for us listening to this together. And then I think appropriate to that is a discussion about active versus passive listening. You know, I would I would do a Google What are you listening for? How are you listening for it? Do you did you put a s a score up on the screen so everybody can see the score while you're listening? You know, at the bare minimum, you have to have your part in front of you. But that's right. Uh yeah, those are my thoughts. Active listening, that's great.

SPEAKER_06 53:43

Yeah. I would also uh often listen for myself personally, you know what I mean? Uh a variety of amazing uh professional recordings, but then I would go out and purposely find a pretty crappy middle school band playing it because I'm like, oh, that's what we'll sound like. And I'm not saying that sarcastically. Honestly, it has kicked me in the butt multiple times because I'll hear North Texas play it and they will do things to the music. You know what I mean? Like they're such good musicians that they're doing, and you lose some of the inherent flaws that will happen with a middle school band. Yep, my lens. And so I'm like, oh, and then you hear three middle school bands do the same thing. Yeah, it gives me a problem. Right. You know. Right. Right. I do that very much.

SPEAKER_05 54:30

I'll I'll go listen to uh whatever I'm doing in an honor band, I'll listen to some middle school band or or another honor band play it. And I'll be like, they struggled with that transition. And guess what? We're gonna struggle with. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 54:42

Um, I think we actually answered that quite well. Let's find out from the coach. Coach, what uh what say you? Coach.

SPEAKER_03 54:52

How bad has this all been? I thought that was great. You guys were great there. That was wonderful. I love the band. That's the band boozler.

SPEAKER_05 55:01

Yeah, they all start with the something, but yeah, that's the boozler. I like those.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

The boozlers are great. That's some of the great notes must-listen to podcasts.

SPEAKER_05 55:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 55:09

Sometimes I fast forward through the banter. Get to the boozler.

SPEAKER_05 55:14

Get to the boozler. Get rid of that damn banter and go right to the boozler. Boozlers. Okay. Got the boozlers, the banter, the boozler.

SPEAKER_03 55:22

Last night I also decided that we should have an Eric Songer takeover.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

Okay. Hey, hey, Chris, do you have any of that reference recording of Tim playing the Star Spangled Banner on Trombone? I could use that. You can pull that up right now. That's a good reference recording. Right, right through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:41

It's good to see that the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire can put to use the uh PVC pipes that my brother uses every time he comes to do an honor band there with uh uh Jody Blackshaw's whirlwind for other pieces. So it was good to see Jon Stewart use those last night with the Kelly piece. I enjoyed that. The whirlies. Yeah. That was good. I was gonna comment on that. That Chris, it's good to see them using those more than when you come there to do an honor band.

SPEAKER_06 56:10

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

Use those a lot, even when they don't call for them.

SPEAKER_04 56:14

Peter's commissioning a whirly a whirly choir piece. Everybody just plays whirlies the whole time. Nothing but whirlies all the time.

SPEAKER_05 56:22

Kids hitting themselves, hitting each other, wapping them on stands, hitting the back wall. One of them getting going and just letting it fly. There we go. All the overtones and then chaos.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

That's the best. Bill, it was very enjoyable last night. I really enjoyed uh your group. It's been fun to come up there this year. Miles' new horn is splendid.

SPEAKER_04 56:58

Worth it. Thanks. Uh you both uh uh Chris, you and and Tim both gave me some nice compliments. And I as uh uh as Peter said, it's uh hard to take a compliment at times, uh, but I do appreciate it. Thanks. Well deserved.

SPEAKER_05 57:12

I have to give a shout out to the coach because he said something out loud at one of his earlier coaching sessions um that stuck with me, and I've really been trying to incorporate that into our banter time, and I want to know if he's noticed, trying to get to some more. Yeah, like you have. I've noticed it too. This like not a serious question, but more like more like the boozler, but up front, just about the stuff that we're doing, rather than just teasing Phil about his Valve Trombone concerto.

SPEAKER_03 57:42

I and I like I I send a text to you last week when you ended last week's pop task by mentioning that you loved you loved these guys. That was touching.

SPEAKER_05 57:51

Yeah. At least for you it was and me, but for them it was just another moment of we we we kind of laughed at him actually. I wish we would have stopped that one at the stammering fill, because he's like, Well, I I mean if you could that would have been the best if we would have just left it right there at the stammering fill. But I got the I love you in there.

SPEAKER_03 58:16

That's nice. A friend of mine, uh Peter Schleif, who's a cobber. Yeah. Pete Pete was in town. He had uh he was judging here in Winona, and he mentioned uh he was at the local uh or the regional ACDA conference in Milwaukee, and the Milwaukee Public Schools uh had a choir that saying. And there was Alzheimer choir and a couple other groups, and before every choir, the um the narrator or the the person uh would get up and say, please silence your phone and your inner critic. I like that. I don't know. I was like wow, that person.

SPEAKER_04 58:57

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:59

As someone raised by Jerry.

SPEAKER_04 59:00

I usually I prefer to just say silence your inner Gleason. So it feels good when I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_03 59:06

We have two outer gleasons right here. The inner critic. The inner crit critic is usually yelling at me. So isn't that interesting though?

SPEAKER_05 59:15

Like I I can do that when I'm performing because I can put myself in that head space. And um it's harder when live music, but it's worth it. Like if you can just let or I guess more I have to like try to focus on all the amazing things that I can go toward instead of that was out of tune. Oh, that's hot off the snare drum. To instead go, that's a beautiful clarinet sound. You know, yeah, the snare drummer is probably playing an instrument they've never played, they're on a stage they've never been on, they have no idea how it projects out. It's not their fault. But man, those are some clean rudiments. You know, like it's it's hard to turn off that inner critic.

SPEAKER_04 59:56

Uh for me, it's not the I'm not being critical of it. I'm alternating between like trying to show a joy and passion for whatever I'm hearing, but also making sure that I keep track of Johnny who's nervous out of their mind. And you're just making sure that Johnny is looped into the experience. You know, I've got I've got one tenth of my eye attention on that player to just keep them keep them on board. Uh, but the rest is reserved for like let it go. We're in the gig.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:30

The other experience I had this uh within the last two weeks was I played with the Winona Symphony. I don't know if you know Eric Roadie. I know Eric Roadie.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:39

Yeah, he's uh uh well he's at Minnesota violinist conductor.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:43

Yeah, so Eric comes uh to Winona and does the Winona Symphony and they do a children's concert and they did a Pulanc history of a bar. And of course, if you're gonna do something about an elephant, you need to have a tuba part. Right? So they thought to bring you in. They did. They bring in me, and you know, that's the first time in that kind of in that setting in a long time. And the part was challenging enough that it it needed to be looked at and some work on it. And uh what was fun about it when I was done was that I can no longer sprint anywhere close to what I could do 30 years ago. I don't think as well as I did 30 years ago. I'm not nearly my body does not work at any level that it did 30 years ago. But when I put the instrument in front of me, I can still do something that I used to be able to do at that at at close to that level. And that that was just such a that was a very interesting feeling, I guess, at this point. Because you know, there's so much, you know, as life gets into this stage, you know, Peter, you'll you'll see this in your fifth. You know, some of that what you experience in your 50s is the experiences of what you can't do anymore. And um this was one of those that is like I can I can still kind of do this. And that was uh that was neat. Good for you.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:10

I can eat more. Hey, but thinking about things you can't do anymore, look what I just found. Look what I just found. This is pretty fascinating.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:21

I don't know, it's gonna be good.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:33

Okay, I've never seen that before. Explain what this is.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

This um you're gonna have to put a link to this in the leader.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:45

It says Tim Gleason dancing with the Winona Stars.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:49

You are talking to the the first Winona stars dancing with Winona Stars champion of the champion in year one. This actually, this one is uh from year two when I was unable to defend my title. But I did win year one, and I won year one because I had a great partner, and I was just foolish enough that I sold it, and and people were like, we're voting for Gleason. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:22

So it was quite the solci you just didn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

It's not quite bowling, it's not quite bowling at 300, but it was 300 game, or everything else we heard on you know that that would be really cool on another podcast that just didn't have uh a guy who uh seems to be able to do everything.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:44

Everything. Yeah, well, that's good. Well, yeah, I don't see you doing that anytime soon. So those days are over. I'd like to see you try.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:54

Just gonna say I had a great partner. Yeah, yeah. Did you know that that was coming? Did you look that up for him? Or did you um and Chris, did you just do that now while you were trying to tease your ball?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:07

I was looking for the Star Swingle banner because Phil mentioned that. So I've been looking for it because I haven't been listening to you guys. So I've been looking for that and I found found that. So that's amazing. Wow, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:19

What's the next thing we need to do? How can we what's uh you're our coach. We haven't won the championship yet. Are we even in the playoffs? No.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:27

It's March Madness.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:29

I think we're making things better. I think things are too.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:32

You know, you have great guests, you let them talk, you know, you give them the stage when they're when they're on. Yet you three are just you you have great chemistry together and um and you kind of lift each other up.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:46

Yeah, but but let's be honest, Tim. I think my chemistry is better than Peter and Chris's. I think that's clear.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:50

Well, that that goes without saying. Yeah. That was understood.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:58

I love you.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:00

Beyond Artless is sponsored by Beyond the Notes Music Festival. Our mission is to create and provide profound learning and social experiences through music that go beyond the notes. Visit BTN MusicFestival.com to learn more.