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beyond ArtLess
“Beyond ArtLess" with Chris Gleason, Peter Haberman & Phil Ostrander is a podcast that explores the friendships and the community that exists in and outside of the arts and arts education. In each episode of Beyond ArtLess, one of the hosts reveals his mystery guest to the other two. What comes next is a fun-filled conversation revealing the joy of friendship and the artlessness of the hosts. Unlike most successful classrooms, this show is not well planned and probably not worth your time.
beyond ArtLess
Alicia Neal
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Get ready for an insightful and humor-packed conversation with Dr. Alicia Neal—a leader whose passion for music education, community building, and authentic connection shines through every story. Whether you're a seasoned educator or just a band nerd at heart, this episode offers valuable lessons on fundamentals, inclusion, and the joy of teaching music.
Resources:
- Alicia Neal - Biography
- The Hill We Climb: LGBTQ+ Band and Belonging by Rob Taylor & Eric Lung
- Alan McMurray's profile
- Howard Hughes - Biography
- University of Colorado Boulder
- Eastern Illinois University Bands
Credits:
Omar Thomas Of Our New Day Begun - "The President's Own" United States Marine Band Performed on February, 26, 2023, at Northern Virginia Community College's Rachel M. Schlesinger Concert Hall and Arts Center in Alexandria, Va. https://www.youtube.com/watchv=uumlUtrAimk&list=RDuumlUtrAimk&start_radio=1
"The Lonely Goatherd" scene from Rodgers & Hammerstein's The Sound of Music (1965). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmmOJx_Hxto
Wycliffe Gordon Trombone Solos Jazz in Marciac 2009 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBTPkNd3D8w
REGISTER NOW:
2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - FOUR JAZZ SPOTS REMAINING
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1
COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission
FREE MUSIC:
Wisconsin Arts Celebration Project (Marie Douglas “Yellow Birds”)
https://dpi.wi.gov/fine-arts/wisconsin-arts-celebration-project-0
Hey commuter. Registration is open for Commission Possible 2027 with composer Adrian Sims, featuring opportunities for your students to submit 2D artwork that might be used by the composer as inspiration for a new grade 2 work for band. For just $150, your group will receive a creativity curriculum, three video interviews with the composer, your group's name printed in the program notes, the composition, and the opportunity to apply to host composer Sims for the World Premier. Learn more on our website linked in the show notes. Now on to the show.
SPEAKER_08Rested? That's I'm good. How are you? Was it choir in orchestra this weekend?
SPEAKER_09Or just choir? Just choir. Just choir. It was great. They did awesome. Except for the flooding and the tornadoes. But other than that, very simple. Straight ahead perfection.
SPEAKER_08Focus on what you can control. They can sing in the water. There's no electricity there. It's true. Unless it's piano. Good point.
SPEAKER_09Did you really have like any flooding concerns? Not at the festival itself, but uh, you know, poor New London uh thoughts go out to New London and Cheocton and some other schools. I had a couple schools call and they were just like they just couldn't make it work, obviously. And then we had uh tornado warnings and everything. So some schools came but then had to leave early and stuff. So we all did the best we could, and um it's pretty amazing. These teachers handled it beautifully and pivoted and worked hard and uh kids benefited. So it was great. It was it was fun.
SPEAKER_07Proudie, that's great. I love that. Yeah. I've witnessed you try to pivot in the past, and I I wouldn't call it grateful, grateful.
SPEAKER_09Nothing he does as graceful, really no he's a tuba player, it's all a bit awkward. Kind of like an elephant dancing. Um but you said it.
SPEAKER_07Uh on the on the flip side, in the middle of all this big choir spectacular, you uh drove like a million miles an hour to get to uh a tuba recital. Wouldn't miss that.
SPEAKER_09Hopped in the car with uh yep, speedogramma and um to my mom. And uh yeah, Sharon, my work spouse. We uh flew up to uh Eau Claire to go hear Miles play. Yeah, he did great. He sounded good. He had a nice fun night.
SPEAKER_08Digital recital poster looking good in that suit with that fancy horn.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, yeah. Canvas an an amazing thing. Indeed.
SPEAKER_08How about you, Phillips? You've had a busy weekend. You opera a little bit. Oh, I've just been sitting here alone doing nothing. Jazz fest, podcast, all since like what what else could you do this weekend?
SPEAKER_07What could I do? Um well uh there were some unexpected additions to Jazz Fest weekend. You know, Friday night had to play an opera. Uh and uh then Saturday drove back to Minnesota at a second time to get Elliot to bring him to hear Wycliffe Gordon at uh Jazz Festival.
SPEAKER_09Why not should have had Wycliffe play opera?
SPEAKER_07There's not much that guy can't play. Goodness gracious. It was amazing. There was some bellowing, uh for sure. But pretty awesome. Pretty awesome. That's cool. So shout out to Bob Baca and Quentin Volk and uh Eau Claire Jazz Incorporated for really putting on an incredible jazz festival. Remarkable. Well done.
SPEAKER_08That's good. We had an encore concert today, went well. Shared it with White Bear Lake High School and uh great teachers here, Shannon Anderson, Matt Falm, Friends of Show. I don't actually know if that's true, but Matt's getting his masters with us, so that's been great. And Shannon's just amazing. Just amazing. That's good.
SPEAKER_07So listen, I'm sort of confused because you're not wearing pajamas. I'm not in the sisters, I'm still in my like tuxedo stuff. Yeah, I just know I had to get dressed today. It's horrible. You are for a while there. I wasn't sure if you were professional anymore. Now now back to being a professional. I mean, I've never really been professional, but now I'm out of my pajamas, so there you go.
SPEAKER_08Uh hi highlight from the uh the concert today, Peter. Let's have it. The Bach. We played Cottafugan D minor, and they man, the one thing they can do is make color happen. Like they just all play so idiomatically on their horns, and Don Hunsberger did such a great transcription. The Hockett stuff though is annoying as piss. Like it just doesn't have to be that hard. He could have given less than or whatever. You know, like just uh sometimes I'm like, Don, why'd you do it that way? Are you talking about Bach? No, Bach did a nice job. But they're not even sure that Bach wrote that, you know. That was a thing in studying at this time that I didn't know from the first time I did it. Most people don't think it's actually a work by Bach anymore. Randall Standrich? Brian Belmages. It's Brian Belmages, yeah. Yeah, that could be Brian. Why are we interested? But it was great. They did a great job, and the audience freaked out. And then we did the other Bach. We did the PDQ Bach Grand Serenade for Awful Lots of Wins and Percussion to end it. And they very much so laughed at that. They found that funny.
SPEAKER_09That's good. Which means they get it. Um I got okay, very important question here. Have your mime studies paid off? Have my mime studies paid off.
SPEAKER_08Well, it's hard to do it. Um, but I think it is actually paying off. Okay. All right. And uh getting to the point about the things I'm learning from that and dance and acting theory into how opening um young conductors, because it's easy for us who are conductors to like incorporate that in. But the young ones start with the rules we give them and look awkward, and then we try to infuse that with expression. And I think the secret is to get them to do more whole body things and body awareness stuff first, and then bring that into the limits of conducting rather than starting with the limits of conducting and trying to season it with expression later. That's where I'm at. We'll see.
SPEAKER_07Whatever I'm gonna get you. Uh, favorite thing you have done in your sabbatical with your family, unrelated to music or career. Look at him. He's thinking. He is him thinking. It's hard for me to choose a favorite.
unknownHighly.
SPEAKER_08To be honest, I mean lots of things. Like I haven't had to miss any of my daughter's band concerts or festivals. I was I was the parent chaperone for the festival this year, which I realized I should charge people to do that because I am one of the best dad chaperones you're gonna have on a trip. I can repair a horn, I'll sit in the back of the bus and make them be quiet. You can leave me to warm them up while you have to go take care of something. I can go find percussion mallets, I can help with it. I I'm your man. What? I just realized that. Retirement gig. Yeah, yeah. Band. Anyway, that but mostly it's just literally being able to be present and around for all the family all the time.
SPEAKER_07Which yeah, when the band conductor comes back in the room, you have everyone miming. Everyone. It's like, what are you doing?
SPEAKER_08I thought you said to warm them up. Well, we haven't touched instruments. We're just thinking about it right now. We'll get there. We'll get there. Okay, okay. Enough with the banter. We've really bantered the light on after the Sam Quinones. Now we've over bantered. Yeah. Well true. I can't see it starting. He'll he'll narrow this down to about a minute and a half, don't worry. Yeah. They don't listen. Okay, our guest today is amazing. I am so excited. Who's the guest? All right. Today's guest made it to the regional Olympic Soccer Practice. The first soccer practice in her region for Olympic soccer. Amazing. Never went back. First and only I know who it is already. No, you don't. I do, but keep going. Keep going. No, no one in her family did music. Uh, but uh she's a trumpet player, but couldn't tap her foot and clap her hand rhythmically, so percussion was out. Grew up in Texas. Um and then bachelor's at UC Boulder, or sorry, CU Boulder. And then she got to go back and teach in her hometown in Texas, which is the most precious thing ever. Master's again from CU Boulder, doctorate from Northwestern. I met her at the University of Minnesota, and which is first teaching job at the collegiate level, then was at San Xavier's University in Chicago, and since 2012 has been the director of bands at Eastern Illinois University. Everybody, it's Dr. Alicia M. Neal.
SPEAKER_09Oh, I was right. I was right. I knew that. Oh, that's fantastic. Oh, good to see you.
SPEAKER_08That's amazing.
SPEAKER_09Yep, it did. This doctor was the first thing.
SPEAKER_08Welcome.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_08So one of my favorite things about uh Alicia is, well, lots of things, but one of them is we just share a lot of common passion about community and ensembles, and we'll get to that later, but also teaching majors uh and educators, but also non-majors and having that component in in our ensembles. Love all that. But um, I kind of really need to hear a little bit about that soccer story and then a lot about your beginning band experiences, because I think uh the world needs to know that.
SPEAKER_04Sure. So as far as soccer goes, that was my first love was was being a soccer player. So I played travel soccer uh until I was in high school, and then I had to choose between band and soccer, and that's kind of how that went. And here I am teaching bands. So um the Olympic development training team thing, it's it sounds like a big deal, but I'm not so sure it really is. It's just kind of like a regional Houston thing. I went to the first practice. Uh, I found the girls that I was work, you know, practicing with to be not very nice, and I did not have a good time. And I said, I'm not gonna do this again. So I was done with it at that point.
SPEAKER_08So I believe you called them bitches, is that correct?
SPEAKER_04No, I did, yeah. They were not bitchy, they were very clicky, and I don't do clicky. I just want to be real.
SPEAKER_08So good for you. Good for you. Uh okay, beautiful, beautiful. Um now, uh beginning band. You got your uh start in sixth grade, like all of Texas?
SPEAKER_04Yes, start in sixth grade. And um my my uh middle school band director is Gloria Ramirez, is her name, and she um is kind of an institution in the Houston area, um, outstanding teacher, taught at some of the premier uh Houston area uh giant high schools, uh of which there are many. Um eventually she did that. And uh but she started me on trumpet. She was a trumpet player, and in Texas, they do beginner band really well, as you probably know. Um, so we all had really good embouchures, we were we we had a lot of good fundamental uh instruction. So I was very fortunate to have her as my teacher. So in the fifth grade, you know how they do like uh an instrument night or whatever, and the people come and they kind of like they're like, What do you wanna, what do you want to do? What activities do you want to do? We start with that. And so I saw some kids talking about athletics and some kids talking about choir. And then this girl was standing on the stage and she was wearing, because this was the 80s, so so wait for it. She was wearing a red blazer with metals on the on the lapel pocket, like next to the lapel pocket. And I was just, I was beside myself, and I said, Whatever I have to do to get that jacket, remember peace. I want to do it, and no one in my family had ever done anything in music. And so my mom, knowing that I do what I want to do, said, Okay, I guess we're gonna we're gonna try band. And uh I have not looked back.
SPEAKER_08So I love that. Do you still have so it was the blazer with pins shiny things on it that did that for you?
SPEAKER_04I do not have the jacket. You know, that's one of those things they check out to you and you have to turn it back in. But honestly, Black Mower, I think it would smell really bad anyway. It's just it's one of those musty wool, you know. Oh yeah, yeah, not good.
SPEAKER_08It was like the uniform blazer.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, black pants, white polo shirt, penguin middle school band on the on the corner there of the shirt, and then uh white blazer.
SPEAKER_08Time less timeless middle school band?
SPEAKER_04Sorry, Kingwood.
SPEAKER_08Kingwood, much better than penguin, because penguins in Texas, that's a weird thing.
SPEAKER_04That would be really weird, yeah.
unknownYeah, straight.
SPEAKER_08Um, okay, that's beautiful. So you're only one in band, and then I want to get back to the fundamentals thing because I feel like I mean, Texas is well known for its uh system of starting students. Um, and I feel like the Midwest and the upper Midwest could learn a little bit from the focus on fundamentals sometimes. Any thoughts on that? Well, I completely agree.
SPEAKER_04Uh I completely agree. I think the thing that's difficult is people want to get to the meat of letting kids play something that's fun and sounds great. And as a result, I feel like we rush student, young students into doing those things before they're truly ready. So I feel like it would be really, really great if people in the upper Midwest would find a way to kind of do those sorts of things with the fundamentals. So for example, maybe we all practice buzzing, you know, something, I don't know, three blind mice on a brass mouthpiece and just see if we can kind of do that. I I don't know. I think there are a lot of ways to adapt what we're currently doing to make it more um educationally sound in terms of solid fundamentals. Totally.
SPEAKER_08It's our job to put the fun and the fundies in the fundies.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_08That's uh that's good.
SPEAKER_09You should make a book like that. Um, so in not only like the the the repetition, but the setup is so important too. So how you know what recommendations would you have for folks to to observe, to learn more about that, to find the collaboration piece so that they fully understand some of those setup things?
SPEAKER_04So, I mean, I think one thing that I had that was really helpful was uh an instrument specific uh beginner class. So it was just pretty close. It was trumpets and trombones. So we it was it was much easier to kind of get us to do uh two two different things, trumpet trombone, um, rather than trying to teach all these other instruments as well. So we had a very focused approach to our beginner instruction. So this that in terms of setup was was quite well done. And I know it's it's more expensive to do it that way. There are more, you need more teachers, you need there's so many reasons why that doesn't financially make sense. But at the end of the day, I think it really does set students up uh in a much better way to be successful long term, should they want to do that. Now they certainly won't all want to do that, but if they do, I think that Texas does a really nice job of of setting them up well for the most part.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, there's a lot of FTE B FTE involved in that. So you got to go back and teach at your school district that you grew up in.
SPEAKER_04I did, yeah. So right out of college, um, I taught middle school ban in the district, so at one of the neighboring middle schools that I did not attend. Uh, and then after the first year, I I had really wanted to get into high school and the director at this the school that I attended, which was a different director than when I was there. So that was that was good because I think that would have been a little weird. Um, so I he asked me if I would uh if I was interested in taking uh the fourth of four positions uh at at the high school. So uh we were we were running ragged and do a lot of marching band and um I taught freshman band and it was just a wonderful experience and I got to live at home and save some cash, so that was nice.
SPEAKER_08Don't know if I could live at home. Let's move on. No, they would have kicked you out.
SPEAKER_09Swam at my sister's place. No, no, I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_07Good point. I'll call her. Anything? Uh so Alicia, I um your first instrument is trumpet, yes? Or your your primary instrument was trumpet.
SPEAKER_05Correct.
SPEAKER_07Um what what drew you to that? Why how did you know I Peter made a mistake, but I'm curious about you. Well choosing the trumpet.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I actually didn't choose it. I wanted to play percussion. That was my my thing, but I literally could not pat my foot and clap on the upbeat. I literally could not do that. So uh my middle school band director said, Yeah, that's not gonna be the right one for you. And and we know how this uh this goes sometimes. If if you have a student that you don't want to play a certain instrument, for example, saxophone, because everybody wants to play the saxophone, you might put a dry reed on there and let them have a shot at it, uh, and they are unsuccessful. So that is a that's a no as well. And so she told me after the fact that when she met me and talked to me a little bit, she thought that I was a trumpet player. So she uh fixed the it was a clarinet. She fixed the clarinet so that it wouldn't quite work as well as it maybe could have. And then I I played the trumpet and uh loved it.
SPEAKER_08Brilliant. I love that the personality test of meeting you as oh, this one's a trumpet player. Here, try this one. I love that. That's the best. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I mean, I do have that trumpet player vibe, but I'm not I'm not arrogant or cocky. I just want to be clear about that because that that's kind of the trumpet thing, right? I mean, I try not to.
SPEAKER_09But you will if you were hired to let's say perform like the national anthem or something at an event, would you come early or just not show up at all?
SPEAKER_04Well, I would be very early. I would be very, very early. I do everything, I do everything early.
SPEAKER_09Let me write that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. Good.
SPEAKER_01Peter Havlovic, please play America the Beautiful. Please play America the Beautiful, Peter Hot Hobbit. Peter Hoblovic.
SPEAKER_09That's fascinating. I actually had a saxphone player once where I put a dry reed on, and this little kid actually went on YouTube and studied it and knew ahead of time that you would wet the reed. So he tried it and then said, Oh, Mr. Gleason, I need to wet this reed. I'm like, oh, you are playing bassoon. That's what we're gonna put you on.
SPEAKER_08That is a great thing. Yeah. But that's a personality test. They'd already looked ahead of what they were supposed to do before they got there. To do it right, that's a bassoon player.
SPEAKER_07And now a message from our sponsors. Concert night. You've studied your scores, you've thoughtfully chosen your baton and outfit. The value of the instruments on stage is nearly priceless. You represent the composer, the musicians, and your institution. Behind you in the audience are your peers, proud family members, community, and even potential donors.
SPEAKER_09And my question is this: Are you standing on a squeaky, mass-produced podium that was bought long before you arrived? I know I've stood on that podium. A conductor's foundation should match their artistry.
SPEAKER_08Well, I can tell you I'm not on that podium because I have two of these silent stage podiums, which are gracefully designed to complement the instruments but not distract from the music. They're built with American oak, elegant brass railings, sound dampening rubber-backed carpet and velvet red, and steps on both sides, which fold in easily for a smaller footprint when needed. Each podium is delivered in a street rolling case for the podium to survive backstage pumps, dust, or even like we take these long ensemble tours.
SPEAKER_09Commuter, elevate your presence with Silent Stage Podium. Say it with me, Silent Stage Podiums. Find out more at Silent StagePodiums.com. Now back to our show. So let's talk about uh you met Peter at the Minnesota.
SPEAKER_04I did.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. It was awesome. So let's talk about that.
SPEAKER_04Okay, sure. What do you want to know?
SPEAKER_09I mean Well, some dirt. Let's see.
SPEAKER_04I I was nice to him because it felt like I should be. Uh no, Peter's Peter's.
SPEAKER_05He doesn't have a lot of friends. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Peter's great. I thought I feel like we always had good conversations. I don't have a lot of dirt. Um, he wasn't actually a student there when I was there. We just missed each other. So, but we met because I was there and he came back for things and that sort of thing. So um, but yeah, no, I mean I always enjoyed spending time with Peter and we always laughed a lot, which I see that you guys can do as well together, which is it's great. It's uh it it fuels life, right? Laughter.
SPEAKER_08They keep trying to get dirt on me, and the problem is I'm too stupid. I just say all the dirt anyway and tell them in advance, and so then they want to know more dirt. I'm like, there's nothing else. If there was something else embarrassing, you would know it already. That's just how I work, and that's really lame for them. I'm sorry, but I don't care. Um, Alicia, mentors, you spoke of your first teacher. Like, how did music go from the thing you wanted to do to like really the thing you wanted to do to make your life? Who was that or what was that? And then who are the people along the way that have just pulled you in to make you as amazing as you are?
SPEAKER_04Um, I would say my middle school band director for sure was kind of the first one um who who really kind of set the stage for me to be successful and feel like I was good at something. I was not an outstanding academic student. I had to work very hard academically, but music was just kind of fell into place for me. I mean, I was very uh it just read. Resonated with me and it felt right. And so I went through high school in Texas, played in the Allstate band a few years, and just had the most amazing clinicians. So the clinicians I had for the All-State band were um Alan McMurray, who was my soccer year. And then my junior year, I think we had Arnold Gabriel, and then we had uh John Colonel John Bourgeois, my senior year. So I had some great clinicians. Uh and I also, when I was in Region Band and all that stuff, we had Jerry Junkin and Craig Kierkoff and Tom Lee that were doing this high school honor band, and I just saw these amazing teachers and wanted to be a part of that world. Um, so I would I would say there for sure.
SPEAKER_08Love that. And that's how you got to Boulder. Was that work with McMurray?
SPEAKER_04That's kind of a crazy story, actually. We we were in in between um rehearsals with the Allstate band, and I was going up to my room uh in the hotel, which was the same room uh or the same hotel where we were having the rehearsals, and Alan McMurray got into the elevator as well. And I don't know if you've ever spoken with Alan McMurray, but he's one of those people that kind of looks through you when he's talking to you. Um and he just started talking to me in the elevator, and he just said, I think you should come visit the University of Colorado at Boulder. It's beautiful. There's mountains everywhere. I'd love to have you visit. And I uh to be I'm one who takes things and runs with them. So my family went that next summer to the University of Colorado and checked it out and loved it. Uh and uh it ended up being the school that gave me the most uh scholarship money, so it was cheapest for me to go there. And um, Alan McMurray is uh one of my favorite humans of all time. He's kind of like my you know second dad. Uh we're still in touch, we talk frequently, and he's just a wonderful, wonderful person. So that's how I got there.
SPEAKER_07So Alicia, I can tell from meeting you for in a for the last like seven minutes that you connect well with people and and likely connect really well with students. And I'm wondering uh not all of our students that we teach connect immediately when they're in a student teaching situation or in a first-year teaching position. They like struggle to connect. What do you tell those students who are like trying to build those relationships?
SPEAKER_04Oh, great question. I think a lot of times it's it's important for us to remind those young teachers or student teachers to be the person that they actually are with their friends. You know, they have to be authentic. And I think they get up on the I call it the stupid box. Yeah, they get up on the stupid box to conduct and they they shut themselves off completely as humans because they're trying to move a certain way and they're trying to get that cue, and they just lose all humanity. So I think just reminding them that you're gonna make mistakes, but also just be there. Look at your students, smile at them, just connect with them because students are hilarious at all levels. And if they can just kind of to bite on that a little bit and just let themselves feel that and kind of take their end the energy from the students and give it back, I think it it really helps a lot if they can do that.
SPEAKER_08If you could go back and talk to your 22, three, four-year-old self and you're starting of teaching, but what's a nugget of advice you might give yourself?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I would say be patient. It will come, but you have to do the work. You have to there are no shortcuts, and I think that uh in today's uh world, everything has to be immediate. Students want the fix right now, they want to be there already, and it just it can't happen that way. And so I think I would tell myself to be patient, trust the practice that I'm doing in everything score study, practicing my trumpet, you know, teaching, all that stuff. Trust the practice to get you where you want to go, and eventually you will find yourself in a better uh place, the place that you want to be.
SPEAKER_09Cool. Alicia, what's uh what's a work that you keep coming back to that you can't get enough of?
SPEAKER_04I I mean, Omar Thomas of Our New Day begun. Uh had a really great uh experience with that piece with my students a few years ago, and I I can't wait to program it again. And uh I was studying it in a seminar with my students, some of my undergraduate students, and I've uh every time I revisit that piece, I'm just so unfloored by what he can do. And that and that's a piece that my students can play. Um, my students don't play grade five, six music generally. They can play some fives, but not sixes generally. And so that was a piece that really spoke to them and to me um uh in a in a very powerful way. And it was it was just a wonderful opportunity to interact with my students on a piece of music that we all were very passionate about.
SPEAKER_09Do you give them information about the piece right away, or do you kind of reveal that along the way and have them discover?
SPEAKER_04It kind of depends on the piece. Um, I think some pieces require a little bit of context for the students to buy into, um, but not all of them. And so there are some times where if the piece is gonna be, I know they're gonna buy in pretty quickly, I might not tell them right away. I might save it for a third or fourth rehearsal and kind of lay it out there at that point. Um, I do try to ask a lot of questions about uh what other pieces have you played by this composer, just trying to get them to broaden their knowledge base and think outside of the box, right? I mean, that's what we're all trying to do all the time. So sometimes I'll give it to them, sometimes not.
SPEAKER_08Alicia, you're a mother and a professor, mother and teacher. How's that working?
SPEAKER_05What I mean, yeah, what's that? I mean, that's great question.
SPEAKER_08I know. Sorry, it's well done. It was it was not done. How's that working? So, Chris, you're a tuba player.
SPEAKER_09How's that working?
SPEAKER_08No, but well, in all seriousness, I mean, we were just talking about uh that and and what we bring to the table, but like uh I mean as a dad, it's one thing, but I mean, two daughters, right? Two daughters, yeah. And and you know, they're in middle school. How do you work life work-life balance? Where would you want to go with this? How how do you make this work?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, I I I think that I I've learned a lot in the last uh 13 years, my oldest is 13, about how to navigate this. Um and so I I just find that I have to kind of really allow myself to enjoy the time that I have for myself or the time that I have with my wife that doesn't involve my kids being around or work. Um, so I think having the opportunity to kind of to to kind of compartmentalize at times is really, really helpful. Um I I do think that teaching at Eastern Illinois University really helps a lot because it's not as rigorous as a research one institution. So as a director of bands, I get into school most days at 8 a.m. and I am often out the door at either three or if I have a later rehearsal, five. But it allows me an opportunity to drive the carpool, to make dinner in the evening, to um teach to coach my daughter's soccer team, you know. So uh I I have a lot of opportunities to do that because of the position that I'm in.
SPEAKER_08That's great. That's great. I mean that like I was saying earlier, that's the kind of the That's why I thought so hard about that sabbatical question because it was just the ability to like I didn't have to make those choices. I haven't had to make those choices for the last couple months. That's been a really nice thing.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_08Uh you had a sabbatical. You uh they think so. I the joke is I'm in my pajamas all the time because I just don't get dressed anymore. Um which I've actually tried to do on purpose, like you know, take the dog for a walk to the exercise, shower, and I put my pajamas back on. But let's move on.
SPEAKER_04Um I remember that actually. I did the same thing. Absolutely did the same thing. Sometimes I would get sometimes I would get dressed at like two in the afternoon to go do afternoon school pickup. So I I totally get it. And it kind of harkens back to uh COVID days, right? Where we all wore pajamas all the time.
SPEAKER_08Chris still lives in that world pretty much. Thanks. Uh but you did you were on sabbatical and you did something really cool. You gotta tell them about that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So uh we pulled our kids out of school uh for five weeks. Uh that the very beginning of school year, they went for a week and a half to school and then we pulled them and we went to Europe um and just went to six countries and spent uh time together as a family doing um really great um touring and historical stuff. And we were kind of giving them school without them being in school, which in many ways I think is uh is even more important. Um, so I I I think it was a wonderful experience. It's something that I don't know how much longer we'll be able to do it. We're actually gonna do it again in about three weeks. We're going to Great Britain uh and Ireland. Uh we're pulling them out of the end of school for like three weeks. So so that'll be fun. But when we when we went in the last fall of 24 was my spatical, we went to Iceland, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, Greece. So we had a we had we saw all kinds of stuff. It was great. That's so cool.
SPEAKER_09It's it's awesome. I I was in South Africa a couple years ago, and I would have given anything to have my family there because it's a life-changing just perspective. You just can't, I mean, it's just amazing. So I I totally think that's amazing. What's something in your current work um at Eastern Illinois that you're excited about?
SPEAKER_04Oh, most immediately, I think we have a really good recruiting class that we've secured to come in in the fall. So I think that that's um really exciting. Um and that's something that we have to work really hard at recruiting here at Eastern. I mean, we're not the U of I. People aren't just gonna come here. I mean, we have to work at it a little bit. And so when when that pays off at the end of the year, um, it just it feels really, really great. And the students get excited, and I kind of tell them along the way, okay, guys, there's five trumpet recruits that are coming in the fall, so you better practice over the summer to make sure that you're ready for audition, you know. So we kind of share that excitement.
SPEAKER_09And I saw the news clip on that. Um, all five of them were gonna go to Concordia, but you convinced them otherwise, which again, congratulations. Uh, hangout with these people. Good for you, yeah.
SPEAKER_04I mean, it was the right thing to do. Right thing to do.
SPEAKER_09And we well, it's what's best for them. That's what I always say, Peter.
SPEAKER_08Um you just finished part of a book. I'm just gonna move along like he's not speaking because it's just uh the best way to move it along. Um belonging and band or band and belonging?
SPEAKER_04It's called the um, yeah. It's called The Hill We Climb Colon, because a lot of good books have the colon there, right? Great books.
SPEAKER_08Start with that, yeah.
SPEAKER_04The Hill We Climb, Colonel LGBTQ, band, and belonging.
SPEAKER_08Uh Midwest, there were you guys just did some conversations about that. Yeah. Um can you talk more about that experience in the hill that we climb and share some of that for our listeners and their students and colleagues? That would be great.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. So I I'll start by saying I didn't know what that experience would feel like. And I thought it would be, I felt like it would be more removed and more of a um kind of like a just like a memory dump. And it ended up being really emotionally difficult to go through, um, kind of rehashing some some traumatic old memories from, you know, growing up in Texas and being gay, you know, and and trying to navigate that world um and knowing that it just wasn't okay, but feeling so compelled to explore that side of myself and and really trying to kind of come come to terms with that. So um that's pretty much a lot of what the chapter is about, is kind of talking about that with my experience from elementary school until the present, essentially, and and kind of my journey with kind of when I started in elementary school to feel like I really respect and like these women teachers. Like I don't, I don't understand what's happening, and and realizing after the fact, oh, I was really drawn to the feminine energy. And when I talk to other people who are lesbians uh in our field or anywhere, they uh have a similar story. Many of them do, but we don't know what it is at that time, you know, and so I think it's really great to see that LGBTQ plus community being more accepted these days and be becoming more mainstream because it was always there. It just wasn't being talked about and it didn't always feel like it was okay. So um, you know, and there were in the book chapter, it was my story and then uh a few others. Um uh Rebecca Daniel, Eastern Kentucky, uh Britton Braddock is at Mercer University, and um, we had Shelly Jago from uh Wright State. Um and myself, we were all the contributors together, and uh it it was a it was a difficult process. And the other contributors and I all talked about that, how we didn't expect it to be difficult. And by the end of it, we were all saying, Wow, I didn't realize I would feel like I was kind of hit by a truck, you know, in many ways after that. So it was uh very emotionally draining to write and to edit to because you have to keep re rereading it. Um, but I'm really glad I did it and I'm really proud of it. It was difficult to do to come from to be a kid in Texas with raised very Catholic, um, that that you know, and now I'm able to be completely out and open. And I wrote a book chapter about my experience that was not on my bingo card when I was 19 years old, for sure.
SPEAKER_08Has this, I mean, cathartic uh a bit and therapeutic or or all the all the things for you, but um with the Midwest Clinic as well as with the book itself, have you found more mentorship with that? Have people reached out? Have they been sharing their stories as well? Have you found that to be part of this process as well?
SPEAKER_04I I wish that I could say that I have, because that's the whole reason I did it. It's not I didn't do it because I needed to tell my story. Like I did it so that people would understand history and how how this has become um, how this has moved through our field, like how you get from where I was until where I am now, because a lot of people are struggling with this. A lot of young, gay and lesbian um trans people are really struggling with this. And I had hoped more of them would read it um and find it helpful. Um, I don't know that it it necessarily has hit the way that I had hoped. But if if we can get people to read it, I think that they will really, really be profoundly impacted by the entire book.
SPEAKER_09Well, Alicia, what would be what's one recommendation for music educators out there to that can help the LGBTQ uh plus community and help those kids feel safe and seen and affirmed?
SPEAKER_04Well, I think you can start really simple if you don't know where to start. I think you can start with just, you know, when you introduce your student to yourself to your students on the first day, or when they come in on the first day, you ask them their pronouns. I mean, very, very simple. Uh, and you gotta ask again in the at the you know, at the beginning of the spring term because it changes sometimes mid-year, which I didn't know was a thing, but it does for some people. They're still figuring it out. So I think just just to be be um a mentor, supporter, let them know that they are okay and that you respect them, and nothing about how they identify, um, and and kind of their the way they move through the world uh personally has any effect negatively on who they are as a musician or a teacher. You know, and I think I do think a lot of undergrads, especially who I mostly work with, uh are very concerned about being able to um get a teaching job and keep it. If you're not in the right district or in the right region of the country, that's really dicey. And I worry.
SPEAKER_08It's difficult.
SPEAKER_04I worry for my students, yeah. That are and and we we all have a bunch, you know. I mean, there's a lot of a lot of students who are struggling with this.
SPEAKER_08Okay, I'm gonna go to a speedrun. Are we okay with that? We have a weed running.
SPEAKER_04A speedrun.
SPEAKER_09A speedrun. Oh, I can't wait.
SPEAKER_08This actually it's gonna be a mix. It's gonna be a little bit of a mix. So I got speed. No, not yet. Not yet.
SPEAKER_07So what um I I I'm not ready to leave, uh sorry, I'm not ready to leave your article. Where can people read the article and how can they get to it?
SPEAKER_04Sure. Um, well, it's it's published by GIA and it's a book. Thanks. Um, absolutely. And it's called The Hill We Climb, LGBTQ Band and Belonging. And the lead authors are Rob Taylor, Northwestern University, and Eric Lung uh of Oregon uh state.
SPEAKER_07That's awesome. Uh now what how I I'm I'm not ready to leave. Just shut up, Peter. Um Pete Um can't how how long is how long has this book um been in creation? This has been a long project. I'm getting a sensation that this has gone on for some time.
SPEAKER_04It has, yeah. Gosh, I think it was probably four years ago that we we sat we sat down and I was asked by Robert and Eric if I wanted to contribute a chapter. Um so it was a while ago, and you know, we had deadlines, and you know how these things work. You write, you write your thing, and then you know, not everybody gets their stuff in on time, and then you're finished with it and you think, you know, I'm all right, I'm good, I'm gonna hear something soon, and then like a year later, you hear something, you know, through no fault of anybody really, except just busyness of life. So yeah, it took a long time to kind of get to the completed phase, but I think we are all really happy with the result.
SPEAKER_08And this is also a resource, though, for teachers like this is it's not just for somebody who's experiencing the same personal journey on their own, it's also for teaching students. And uh is that correct? Am I right?
SPEAKER_04Absolutely.
SPEAKER_08If I remember correct, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely.
SPEAKER_08I just wanted to make that clear, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and there's um there's a uh an um appendix in the back that's a list of works by LGBTQ plus composers. So I mean that's a really helpful resource if you're trying to program for your ensemble and you want to branch out a little bit from kind of the things that you know, that's a great place to start um is to look at that list. So you can buy the book online. I think they have it on Amazon, so pretty simple. Uh or you can buy it directly from GIA.
SPEAKER_07So at times you must um have um uh try had um not struggled, but um he'll get there. Just the he'll get there. No, no, it's gonna be a good one, I promise. But what I want to know is that uh I know that you have likely had conversations about the book or topics related to the book in your classroom. And I'm wondering how those those conversations went, because I know they can be difficult and they have to be approached carefully, but I know I can tell you're good at it, and I want to know how you do it.
SPEAKER_04Well, it helps that I am gay to start with. Uh so I mean that's the big the big thing. And I uh quite honestly, I'm very open with my students. Um when we moved to central Illinois, I I teach in a very small town. There's like 12 to 15,000, depending on the time of the year, in this town. It's small. The big city is Champaign, Illinois, an hour away. The bigger cities are St. Louis and Indianapolis, two hours either either direction. So uh, you know, the these students that I see that come to Eastern, a lot of them are first generation college students, and they may have never really experienced a gay person before. So uh when I moved here, my wife was in her third trimester with our first child, and I was gonna have to take some time off in my first semester at this new uh position. And so the first day I'm reading the syllabus and I say to the students, so my wife is gonna have a baby in November. You know, I'm gonna have to miss a little bit of time. I have a plan, don't worry, we've got it figured out. But um, you know, there's that's pretty pretty humbling experience to have to do that with kids you don't know. And I just found the more I did it, the easier it got. But I think having them having them very being very clear with them uh from the get-go about how you're great the way you are, and I am here for you if you need help. And quite honestly, my uh office is kind of a revolving door often of students coming in to share things like this with me. And uh, you know, I I walk them to the counseling center myself sometimes just to make sure they get the help that they need to kind of work through this because I am not a professional, but I sure I sure have uh great empathy and concern and I care deeply for these kids who I know are struggling.
SPEAKER_07So awesome. Thank you for sharing that. It's just it's something that all three of us encounter regularly in the classroom. And sometimes I feel like I handle those situations successfully, and other times not so much.
SPEAKER_04Should I just say one more thing about that?
SPEAKER_07You know, I thought I would love it if you would do that.
SPEAKER_04I I I think about this a lot. I think sometimes, and this is kind of what happened to me when I came out to um uh some of my mentors, they would say I would say. I'm struggling, right? I'm sweating. I'm trying to figure out a way to put this into words because I'm not okay with it at the time that I'm have to tell my teachers and such. So I'm struggling with it. And a lot of teachers will say to their students, oh, okay, well, it doesn't matter to me. Just play your scales. Just let's just move on, basically. And I I think that it's important to remember that if if a student tells you that, that's a gift that you need to be ready to accept and and be just humbled by the fact that you were the person that they were they wanted to talk to about it. And they need your support and they need you to say, How can I be helpful? Not, well, it doesn't matter to me. Because then they feel dismissed. And I think it's too common that people will say, Well, it just doesn't matter to me. I'd see all people the same. You know, you just do what you do, be a good trumpet player, be be a good student. It doesn't matter that you're gay. That's a different, a different framing of I support you, then I support you.
SPEAKER_09Oh, that's great. Thanks, Legion. One of my favorite principals of all time would always come up to me and say, Chris, what do we what do we do here? And I'm like, I teach I teach band. And then you just shake his head and you walk away. And the next day he comes up to me and goes, Chris, what do you what do we what do you teach here? I said, and Mr. Leesman, what what are you talking about? And he just gets mad and walks away. The third day he comes up to me, Chris, what do we do here? We teach kids. That's right. There it is. You teach kids.
SPEAKER_04That's the gem, right? We teach the whole human. And that's something I find I find to be so rewarding. And when you when you have the opportunity to help an 18 to 22-year-old figure out who they're gonna be in this world, wow, what a powerful thing we get to help them navigate. And I just am humbled by it all the time.
SPEAKER_08Beautifully said. I love it. I know that you have t I mean, this is why I love Alicia and why I wanted her to be on the podcast and to share so much. And I actually went down a road, I guess I wasn't thinking we were gonna really go down as much, but this is great. I love it. And um this is also why I want to do can I can we get the uh uh family feud theme going now? That'd be great. Because uh I kind of have a little bit of a game and then mostly just speedrun posts. I do two game podcasts. Because I got inspired by Phil. Phil will always come up with um uh questions for people, and so I've got two tattoo questions. Um most the the what famous person was born in uh Umble, Texas?
SPEAKER_04Um born, or maybe raised. I think I don't know, but George Foreman lived in my neighborhood when I was in Kingland Texas. He used to shop at the grocery store where I was bagging groceries. He used to tip really well. But I don't know.
SPEAKER_08I'm sure you did. That was good. Um okay, you lived there, but um what famous aviator was born in Umble, Texas?
SPEAKER_04I can't say that I know.
SPEAKER_08Uh oh my god. No, you're gonna have to he doesn't know either. You are so awful at this, dude.
SPEAKER_09You're dad, this is not my game. Just awful. The FCC is gonna come and strip Howard Hughes.
SPEAKER_08I just I just I just did a bunch of research on this. Was it Howard Hughes? I was just listening to a great of that.
SPEAKER_05Howard Hughes.
SPEAKER_04Did you need to know that? Thanks for that, Peter. I've learned so much from you today.
SPEAKER_08I prepared the question, I just didn't prepare the answer. That's the real problem here. Oh my god. Okay.
SPEAKER_07It's it's not a speed round, it's like a it's a crash really slowly crashing.
SPEAKER_08Oh my god. All right, here we go. Here's the next one. You've lived in a lot of places, and now you're in uh Charleston, Illinois, yeah?
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_08So what uh famous site is just outside of Charleston, Illinois that people coming through would have to go visit?
SPEAKER_04The Abraham Lincoln uh family house and museum would be I love that.
SPEAKER_08Isn't that cool?
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah, and we do have another claim to fame. The very first Jimmy Johns right here in Charleston, Illinois. Store numbers 000.
SPEAKER_07I'm in.
SPEAKER_04Jimmy John went.
SPEAKER_08She's better at this than I am. This is this is what I just realized. Okay, no special. We're going back to the thing I'm feeling good at. Speed round. Here we go. Uh, texting or talking?
SPEAKER_04Oh, talking.
SPEAKER_08How many cups of coffee a day?
SPEAKER_04One.
SPEAKER_08Wow. Favorite you've lived in a lot of places. Favorite city in the United States you've lived.
SPEAKER_04Boulder, Colorado, hands down.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, it's hard to beat that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Favorite country that you've visited.
SPEAKER_04Wow. Iceland was amazing. I would highly recommend. But so it would be a tie between Iceland and Greece.
SPEAKER_08Very different. Very different. Um favorite international city.
SPEAKER_04I really liked Vienna quite a bit, which was a different trip. Uh it's just so musically minded. There's music everywhere, musicians everywhere. It's really cool.
SPEAKER_08And Shostakovich or Mahler.
SPEAKER_04Mahler.
SPEAKER_08Beautiful. Beautiful. Alicia, thank you for coming on. Absolutely. Uh it's easy for people to hear the passion in how you express yourself. And I love it.
SPEAKER_07Can I no? I'm not ready to thank Alicia yet, because I have more questions. Um because no, Alicia, you're gonna have to edit a ton. This is this is the biggest mess. No, it's all gonna work out. Because the uh because I don't want to hang up and then ask you the question that I think everybody should hear. Um uh I have a band that's a lot like yours. I've got like some non-majors here and some majors there, some people in the middle, a minor, some are really talented, other people are trying helping me out playing 19th horn. I'm wondering how you handle I I'm I guess I love that about my band because I like all types. But I'm wondering um, have you embraced that? Is it frustrating? Do you like it? Have you come to grips with it? I I want you to talk about it.
SPEAKER_04Well, first, uh, can we talk about how you have 19 horns and can I recruit some of them?
SPEAKER_08No, they're not. His questions start at like 6.30 and then around 642, he gets to the question. So I apologize. And yes, he he doesn't have 19 horns. So he's got 19 flutes.
SPEAKER_0419 flutes or or alpha sex one. Oh, tenor sex, that's better. 19 tenor sex.
SPEAKER_05Oh, they suck. No thanks.
SPEAKER_04Focus on that sound side.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_04Um, so I guess um I I do like it a lot. I mean, we do have, we're a fairly large program. We have 125 majors, but they um are are really a very much uh an education school and very band-minded. We have three concert bands um that run the during the academic year. Um, one of them is mostly is like a college community, and so I teach the second band, which is mostly non-majors and and majors who need a little bit more kind of refinement. And then my top group is mostly music majors, a few grad students, um, a couple music minors, but but they're very advanced.
SPEAKER_07All right, so you have both. You have both the sides. Yeah, all the sides.
SPEAKER_04Um, I do wish the current generation could read better, because it turns out these are the COVID kids, right? So I don't know if anyone else is struggling with this, but my my students, the younger ones, are really struggling to s to just sight read because they're missing so many fundamentals that they didn't get online when they started BAM.
SPEAKER_07True. Very true. And then some. Oh, thank you. Absolutely, Peter, Philip, we good. Alicia, it was really, really, really nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_04It was very nice to be able to do that. Thank you for doing this.
SPEAKER_07Peter is an idiot. I just have to apologize for him.
SPEAKER_04You know, I mean we can't at least he's consistent.
SPEAKER_08Yes, that's right. Consistently an idiot. Uh I'll take that as well.
SPEAKER_04It's been a pleasure.
SPEAKER_08Alicia, you're the best. And the way you build relationships, what I saw with the students at the University of Minnesota and with your colleagues at Minnesota, and I've seen uh now through your time at Eastern, it's just a real joy that you're in our community and helping shape lives through music. And thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER_04Thank you so much. It was a pleasure to meet and speak with all of you and uh get to know you a little bit. Except for me.
SPEAKER_08Well done, Peter. Peter. Nice job. I f I felt awkward today, but Alicia was great and um so natural and easy to talk to and just oozes care. And it was pretty amazing to watch how quickly she just connected uh a very disparate group of people at the University of Minnesota through marching bands and concert bands and the faculty as well. And it's just really cool.
SPEAKER_07I can tell what I think I would like about her as a conductor is like um it's all the things that I'm not good at, like concise. Like you know what I mean? Like in general, and but thoughtful, like incredibly thoughtful, but like can get right to it in a really, really intelligent way.
SPEAKER_08And I and I yeah, I think and I mean this in a great way, because well, I'm also like this, but like direct but caring and high expectations, and all that's mixed together, and you know, um she knows her kids, she knows her students, and she knows them not just as a trumpet player or whatever, and you know, they give back, and then especially in that smaller community of that institution. I I think that's really wonderful.
SPEAKER_07Just absolute testament to investing in students and then getting the return.
SPEAKER_08You know, and I can see why if you've ever met Alan McMurray, you can see why through personality and intensity and all those things that they are very, very similar. I can just see that.
SPEAKER_09So great processing though. If a commuter, go back and listen to that interview, and you'll notice how succinct she is with her answers. Like we asked a lot of questions. Yeah, it was like moving.
SPEAKER_08And it wasn't like it was a short answer, it was just really concise. And there was all right, okay, great. God, I I have to look at it. It's a good interview.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. Yeah. Except for you two. And it was so rough. No flow.
SPEAKER_07No flow. Um never. Hey, we're not talking about your phrasing on the tuba. There's plenty of flow in our questions. Yeah. Plenty of flow.
SPEAKER_09No flow. Speaking of flow, it's time to turn from the tuba there. Our final band Buzzler. Oh my goodness. Oh, I miss really. I love the. Are we getting close to the end of the season? Yeah, we are getting precipitately close. Okay, here we go.
SPEAKER_06Hello, commuter. As this may be the final band buzzler of the season, we'll end with a piece that gives a tip of the hat to the classic sounds of a band by a prominent band composer, but is a work that is a little unknown, rarely played, and has a most unusual title. This one is meant to stump the all knowing Hobberman and leave him squirming until the next episode. Happy listening, Hobberman.
SPEAKER_08I like it. It's really traditional in March, and then all of a sudden it did that Broadway thing at the end, and I was like, that ain't no traditional March.
SPEAKER_09That's the Stars and Stripes Forever. Okay, um, next uh we have our final. You like the you like the the wrap-up with all of this stuff? I mean, we've got a couple more, but a serious wrap-up is rapping with Songer.
SPEAKER_08Rapping with Songer.
SPEAKER_09I saw Eric Songer.
SPEAKER_00Rapping with Songers here. Welcome to Rappin with Songer. It's great to have you here again. Great to see you guys. Hey, I have two of my favorite students today here, Tay and Hannah. Say hi, girls.
unknownHi.
SPEAKER_00And they are in these groups called Win Ensembles, not Wind Ensembles, Win Ensembles. Win stands for What I Need. And it's our flex time here at Chaska Middle School West. And during our win time, our students run or form their own student run ensembles, where they pick the music and they do all the rehearsing and do the performances all on their own. And these two wonderful ladies have chosen all songs from Broadway shows. Tay, what's one of your favorite Broadway shows?
SPEAKER_03Um, I really like the Broadway musical, Be More Chill.
SPEAKER_00Love it. What's one of your favorite, Hannah?
SPEAKER_03Beetlejuice musical.
SPEAKER_00Sweet. So we have a question for you. Tay, you want to ask it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, so what is your favorite Broadway musical?
SPEAKER_00All right, can't wait to hear your answer, guys. Have a great day. Next time we'll be back on Rappin' with Songer. Say bye, girls.
unknownBye.
SPEAKER_09Do you know somehow when when they say hi and bye, it's in the same pitch. And they bend together. You know they're friends when they say, Yeah, so that's cool.
SPEAKER_07Anyway, all right. Eric Songer was a clinician at the Oak Lark Jazz Festival this weekend. Nice.
SPEAKER_06He was very exciting.
SPEAKER_07So was Adam Beaver. Very exciting.
SPEAKER_08He was at the All-State MBDA concert um last weekend watching his kiddos in the six through eight band. I was like, okay. I saw, I mean, Jerry Lucart had his his um you know song concert, and so I didn't expect to see many band directors. I think there were still like 30 or 40 band directors at that concert. I'm like, this is Sunday morning. Go home, be with your families. Nope. There for their kids. Love that. Anyway, I got to see Sonner there. What are we talking about? Musicals. Didn't we have this one already? We did. Pick a new one. Can't do the same one. Okay, well, the last time I said West Side Story, which I stick with, but um Hamilton's amazing. Got to see that. Phil. Sorry. Come on. Phil's fallen asleep. Come on, Phil.
SPEAKER_07I'm trying to think of a good um great musical.
SPEAKER_08Spam a lot's pretty fun.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_08Spamalot. If it wasn't West Side Story or Hamilton, I think it'd have to be Lamez. I loved Lamez, but that was pivotal for me. Middle school.
SPEAKER_09Um Hades Town, uh Mary Poppins. Um, I'm looking at a list. I'm just reading off of the tubas, you can't take them anywhere.
SPEAKER_08Goodness gracious.
SPEAKER_09Into the woods? That's a good one. Oh, the sound of music. I actually played the sound of music because it's got that little tuba part in it. Beyond Artless is sponsored by Beyond the Notes Music Festival. Our mission is to create and provide profound learning and social experiences through music that go beyond the notes. Visit BTN MusicFestival dot com to learn more.
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