Gene Pokorny

In the Season 4 finale of Beyond ArtLess, we are joined by legendary Chicago Symphony Orchestra tubist Gene Pokorny for a conversation that moves seamlessly from orchestral artistry to teamwork, teaching, and steam locomotives.

With Peter away caring for family, special guest co-host Paul Kile joins Chris and Phil for a finale episode that is somehow thoughtful, hilarious, and significantly more organized than usual.

In This Episode:

•  Gene reflects on life inside the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and why he still “pinches himself” walking onto the stage 
•  Stories about working with conductors including Riccardo Muti and Klaus Mäkelä
•  The arrival of new principal trombonist Tim Higgins and how personnel changes reshape an orchestra 
•  Gene’s philosophy on expressive playing, rubato, and storytelling in music 
•  Why so many young brass players focus on technique before expression 
•  Lessons learned from legendary teachers including Roger Bobo, Tommy Johnson, and Arnold Jacobs
•  The origins of the Pokorny Seminar and the importance of teamwork in music education 
•  Steam locomotives, railroad leadership, and what musicians can learn from the Union Pacific “Big Boy” 
•  Why Mahler ultimately beats Shostakovich… at least today 

Favorite Moments:

•  “You’ve got 52 weeks. I’ve got four measures.” 
•  “There’s nothing extraordinarily special about what we’re doing. We just happen to be lucky enough to put together something greater than the sum of the parts.” 
•  “We still have to worry about long tones. Jesus.” 

Also in This Episode:

•  Chris shares his recent trip to hear the Chicago Symphony Orchestra perform Saint-Saëns’ “Organ Symphony” 
•  Festival prep chaos: 4,188 students, endless pizza, and waterpark logistics 
•  Jury duty panic during concert season 
•  The return of the classic “make fun of Peter” segment 
• Details about the new (currently FREE) composition by Erika Svanoe called "Max Joy" and the story behind the premiere and dedication.

Thank you, commuters, for riding along with us through another season of Beyond ArtLess. See you in Season 5.

Learn More:

Chicago Symphony Orchestra

Pokorny Low Brass Seminar

Credits:

Skirmish and Dance · Jeffrey Reynolds  Big Boy Album ℗ 2005 Summit Records Released on: 2001-02-01.  https://youtu.be/1uSzYq-08Iw?si=XvAfQfuoWTkfCHiF

Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot OFFICIAL. As seen in 2014's COSMOS: A SpaceTime Odyssey Written by Ann Druyan and Steven Soter  Cosmos Studios, Inc., Copyright © 2013 Passage written by Carl Sagan for the book Pale Blue Dot published by Random House,  Copyright ©1994 Democritus Properties, LLChttps://youtu.be/GO5FwsblpT8?si=iMpXuImhgPO9BPD1

Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection": V. Finale. Im Tempo des Scherzos Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection": V. Finale. Im Tempo des Scherzos · Carol Neblett · Marilyn Horne · Claudio Abbado · Chicago Symphony Orchestra · Chicago Symphony Chorus Claudio Abbado & Chicago Symphony Orchestra ℗ 1977 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Berlin Released on: 2017-04-21 https://youtu.be/rJWxpR8liF0?si=FMqBfKdVTXYfKDTz

Gershwin: An American in Paris (Revised F. Campbell-Watson) · James Levine · Chicago Symphony Orchestra The World's Greatest Orchestras - Chicago Symphony Orchestra ℗ 1993 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Berlin Released on: 2021-01-09 https://youtu.be/nIw2WJEfZxo?si=qkuxYAcqJq_IzvYy

Saint-Saëns - Symphony No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 78 "Organ" (Chicago Symphony Orchestra) Camille Saint-Saëns - Symphony No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 78 "Organ"Nikolaj Szeps-Znaider, Conductor Cameron Carpenter, Organ Live at Orchestra Hall, December 2022 https://youtu.be/5xrHCJbyG2M?si=CL03JHIsb0KhXRqQ

Partita in A minor for Flute Alone BMV 1013 Provided to YouTube by The Orchard Enterprises Partita in A minor for Flute Alone BMV 1013 · Gene Pokorny Tuba Tracks ℗ 2005 Summit Records Released on: 1995-04-01 https://youtu.be/kQcdD33NXfw?si=cLjI8jGxwXeYxrz7

REGISTER NOW:

2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS  https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission

COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS https://forms.gle/ZswvHWEZK3HBozXZ7

FREE MUSIC: 

Wisconsin Arts Celebration Project (Marie Douglas “Yellow Birds”) https://dpi.wi.gov/fine-arts/wisconsin-arts-celebration-project-0

Max Joy - Erika Svanoe https://www.erikasvanoe.com/btn.html

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:08

Welcome back, commuters, to the final episode of season 4 of the Beyond Artless Podcast. Honestly, the fact that we made it through another season feels mildly irresponsible, but here we are. And somehow you made it too. To all of you who have listened while driving the rehearsal, school, work, gigs, or just avoiding going home for a few extra minutes, congratulations. Your commitment to this podcast is either deeply appreciated or mildly concerning. Before we get started, we do need to mention that Peter is not with us today. He is taking care of his mom and be with family, and that's exactly where he should go. We're certainly thinking about him and sending him and his family our very best. Now that said, stepping in today's the one and only Paul Kyle, who graciously agreed to help bring season four across the bench line. So commuters, one last time this season, grab your coffee, ignore the dashboard warning light for at least another week, and let's do this.

SPEAKER_07 1:32

I mean, uh we managed to replace Peter. It's been a four-year battle, and tonight we have done it.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Yes, but have we upgraded or downgraded?

SPEAKER_07 1:41

Listen, no, it's not about quality. It's just we got to move forward. Change. Change is that has been said about me before.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

It's not about quality.

SPEAKER_07 1:50

Oh, welcome, Paul Kyle. Um, a welcomed uh change and uh switch hitter for Peter. Thank you for doing this. You're welcome. You're welcome. I was promised a 30 t-shirts. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 2:02

Well, uh is that a penalty or a or a prize? Which oh man. I tell you, you can have as many t-shirts as you want. Um, say, I do are you well caffeinated? I mean, that's the Peter role. You gotta come in, come in hot, come in with a lot of caffeine. Not uh no real question. You can just wander for a while and then um I always like to say right paid.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

I I I assumed he got paid by the word because he just spoke so many words. So no, I'm I'm ready to go.

SPEAKER_07 2:32

I think we could easily spend the entire banter period sort of degrading Peter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:38

And actually, the commuter would love that. Hey, we've made it through another season. Look at this, the fourth, fourth season. Can you believe it?

SPEAKER_07 2:47

Before we go congratulating yourself, we're gonna send best wishes to Peter's mom, who has a broken foot, I believe. Oh no! Um and so we're really hoping that she is feeling better. We're we're rooting for you, Peter's mama. Sorry, Chris. I interrupted. Peter, no, he had a concert today, too, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:04

Wasn't he doing Encore. So Encore. Yeah. So he may still make an appearance at some point, I've heard. So we'll see. Driving Minnesota.

unknown 3:14

No.

SPEAKER_06 3:19

We will know. In the continues. That's it.

SPEAKER_07 3:24

Oh my god. Paul Connell, are you wrapp are you wrapping it up soon here? What's it what how what's your trajectory right now?

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Yeah, two weeks. We uh it's concert week next week. Um look, Misery Loves Company. Not only do I have concerts Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I I just called in uh for jury duty. I have jury duty the next two weeks as well. Um, and I don't have to appear tomorrow morning, but I have to call in at noon again. So hi-yay. We'll see how it goes.

SPEAKER_07 3:54

I had I had that last year around this time, and it was I had a bunch of pretty big gigs, so I was kind of sweating it.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Yeah, and it doesn't do any good putting it off because when is there a better time? There's no better time. It's it's madness all the time. Yeah, so we'll see. But yeah, we're we're done May 29th. Check the game, and we'll be foot loose and fancy free. Good.

SPEAKER_06 4:16

CPR using bigger words. Complete sentences. Quality of the show is already higher. Peter and the bar is said.

SPEAKER_07 4:25

Peter hasn't had a complete sentence in several seasons. Look, we all have our problems.

SPEAKER_06 4:30

No, no, and no one has mentioned a torso yet. Um Phil, how about you? You got your wrap the years done.

SPEAKER_07 4:37

Uh this has been a busy weekend. Uh we had uh Eric Songers bands visiting on Friday. Uh in Eau Claire. That was wonderful. Um his groups always play beautifully. Uh so it was a blast. Then Saturday, all day commencement with uh the great Robert Backa and Alex Henton, uh Jacob Grey and Matt Mealy, and then uh opera on Saturday night, opera this afternoon. Busy. There you go. But good. There you go. All good stuff. That's good.

SPEAKER_06 5:03

Are we concerned that uh Paul seemed to opt out? Going well. And that's it. Going well, that's fine. Well, he's there for the banter. I mean, that was good. He was well, at least for his his first part. That was good. I'll see you too.

SPEAKER_07 5:17

So, Chris, what what is uh five alarm firing uh right now uh as you prepare for the festival?

SPEAKER_06 5:23

Uh okay, let me give you some numbers. 1188 students will be coming to the uh Kalahari for the Middle School Music Festival this week on Thursday and Friday. Over two days, 4,188. Think of the pizza. It's a lot of pizza, it's a lot of uh smelly feet in the uh water park. And then um 50 rising music educators, pretty excited about that. They're coming on Friday and then Saturday. We've got uh we got a great session on Saturday too with the building better bands and uh Craig Kirchhoff and Rachel Maxwell and Adam Beaver, and the list just keeps going. Just great people coming to help folks out. So yeah, gonna be a good week. Going to be a good week. Uh all Kyle just texted, not sure what happened. I think I have to restart my computer.

SPEAKER_07 6:12

This is but he he is truly fulfilling the Peter role. I mean, this this has happened. It's a bummer. But he isn't chewing on ice cubes. What's going on, Peter? Anything you want to share with the rest of the class? We haven't truly made a good soup chewing on ice cubes or slurping something. Sounds a lot quieter.

SPEAKER_06 6:31

Panting dogs. Damn. Nope, nope, not at all. Um, hey, I do have to tell you this while he's still restarting his computer, and then we'll get to our guests. Um, last night uh we took a trip down to Chicago. Uh the family. That's right. Yeah, Miles, Emma, me, and Aaron hopped in the car and we traveled down to go hear the Chicago Symphony perform. Oh, unbelievable. They did uh Ravel's Mother Goose Suite, uh Pulonc's Gloria with the choir. Nice beautiful. And then Saint Saund's uh Symphony number three, the organ symphony. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_07 7:05

It's got a great finale, doesn't it? The finale is fantastic. It was how was that pretty how was that pretty trombone solo? Was it a Tim Higgins playing? Oh it was, yeah, fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 7:16

So good. And the just the blend, the balance, the sonority, the sound was just you just sit there and soak it all up.

SPEAKER_07 7:30

It's just gorgeous. So did you stand up and you stand up and clap after each movement the way you're supposed to?

SPEAKER_06 7:37

Uh there's a little applause after the first. People were excited. They were clapping a little bit in La Gloria, too. There was a little uh, but no, people were but they were very appreciative. They could uh it was awesome. It's fun because the crowd gets it. So word you said. Yeah, so that was making it. We were in not the highest balcony, but the right below. Um we kind of like that now because you get a really good view. Of course, Miles is sitting on the edge of his seat and he's like, oh, there's Gene. Oh, he's got two. Is that the inertial? I don't know what he's playing tonight. I think he's got the inertial out. Oh, wait, there's the mute. Check out the you know, it's like play by play. And I'm like, I get my out, just relax. Yeah, he's pretty, pretty pumped up. Pretty pumped up. And of course, in a way there, what did we listen to? Nothing but just orchestra excerpts, like the whole way down was like every greatest hits of you know, you know, I do remember doing doing that to my father once.

SPEAKER_07 8:30

I made him listen to the entirety of Mahler's second symphony on a long car trip once.

SPEAKER_06 8:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 8:36

And then I suggested another Mahler symphony. He said, no.

unknown 8:40

Nope.

SPEAKER_06 8:40

That's enough. Right. We're good. All right. Hey, uh, our guest is wait, we're gonna get in. Paul come back in. Maybe. If not, it feels like Peter anyway. Um what? Uh some musicians shape a section. Few define an era. Our guest belongs firmly in the latter category, a cornerstone of one of the world's greatest orchestras, holding down the lowest voice in the brass section with authority, nuance, and a sense of humor that only comes from counting hundreds of measures of rest with precision. His career traces a remarkable arc through major ensembles across the United States and internationally, from Los Angeles to St. Louis to Utah to Israel, culminating in a longstanding role as the pinnacle of American orchestral performance. But his story doesn't begin on a grand stage, it begins in Southern California, growing up in the shadow of the aerospace industry, just a mile from where the Apollo command modules were built. From there, he honed his craft with some of the most respected teachers in the brass world, developing not just technical mastery, but a deep musical voice that would carry into concert halls and recording studios alike. Beyond the orchestra, he's a dedicated educator and mentor, working with students at leading universities and festivals around the globe. His contributions to pedagogy and performance have earned him both prestigious awards and recognized by generations of low brass players. And if you think that's where the story ends, think again, when he's not on the stage or classroom, you might find him trackside, immensed in the world of railroads, a devoted train enthusiast, or reflecting on life through influences ranging from the seven habits of highly affected people, or potentially enjoying a pie from the Norsky Nook. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the one and only Gene Picorney.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

What uh was uh quite an introduction, it's pretty amazing. Even I started to get eerie-eyed. Oh no, really. By the way, uh regards to Peter's mom, I heard all that. I I hope I hope her foot's feeling better, Peter's. You know, yeah. I'm sure he appreciated all about.

SPEAKER_07 10:56

Yeah, we'll pass that on to him uh in between making fun of him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:01

Which we which we do. Gene, wonderful performance. I didn't even tell you we were there last night, but wonderful performance. That was absolutely stunning. Does it ever get old? I mean, does it ever sit in that beautiful spot?

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Well, I pinch myself every time I walk up the stairs and get on stage. It's that's for sure. Because you know, I've been doing this now for for a while, and um I'm kind of looking to uh just hoping that it goes at least as well as the memory of the last good performance, if not the last bad performance. And you just okay, well I gotta make sure this straightens up a little bit or this has to get tightened up a bit. And it's almost like reinventing the wheel, but you just hope it uh hope it can, you know, stay on a little bit better. And and of course having Tim there now, Tim Higgins on Principal Trombone, it's uh that's a whole new lease on life. It's just so wonderful to have him there. That's that solo in the in the song symphony is just incredible. I mean it was part of the it was part of the audition process. Uh so it was great to hear Tim play it live and you know, just just pristine and uh yeah, especially you know having Mulcahi there because that was that's who his teacher was. And yeah, it's it's it's just it's uh the smile muscles are really working the whole time with hearing plays. Anyway, um yeah, makes me makes me want to stay on longer than I probably should. So uh yeah, just to hear what he what he does. So um yeah, I'm very lucky to be there.

SPEAKER_06 12:38

You are yeah, be no, it was a beautiful performance. Uh okay, Miles my son, he will uh really be upset if I don't ask you. What were the two horns you had out there last night?

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Okay, so yeah, um I had the double B flat uh uh Big Mouth Brass because it's it's a you know the the Samson Symphony is it's a big wattage producer. You know, there's not not a whole lot of solo things that are going on, but you you gotta get out the big uh the big shovel and you know really lay down some some bottom end for the folks. So that was what I used in the Sans. And also and I also did have uh Eastman up there, uh which I I wanted to get just a little bit cleaner. I didn't for the other performances on Thursday night and Friday afternoon, I had only the B flat up there, but it was kind of bubbling in the middle to upper register as B flats have a tendency to do. The clarity issues are not that not that good. So I just wanted to make sure some of the softer uh entrances in the mid-register didn't have so much of a brah brah brah blah blah blah blah. So I so I had a the smaller instrument up there, which happens to be a C a six-quarter double C, which is my small horn, you know. So compared to the the double B flat.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

So yeah, it was uh the Eastman. I have to ask you, as new players come into the brass section, how do you mentor them, or what do you view as your role, or how do you welcome them? Gosh.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

No, a lot of times uh they're the ones who bring the bring the new stuff to the to our to our purview. So I'm uh there's traditions that I mean we did a Tchaikovsky fifth uh just a couple weeks ago. And there's some traditions that got started, for example, when I was playing in the Israel Philharmonic, we had a trumpet player named Glenn Fishtal, amazing trumpet player. And and in some parts of the music he would just start uh snapping his finger on the afterbeats. And and uh to the point where now there was certain there's certain places in the music where I would turn to Teby, uh Stabon, our principal trumpet, and turn and look and look down the line, and we started to snap our fingers on the afterbeats just to kind of keep some traditions going. It didn't even start in Chicago. So So, Gene, tell us a little bit about like the origin story. Yeah, how did you get started in music? Well, my dad was a trumpet player. Um he he grew up on a farm in Nebraska, and he was fascinated with the trumpet, and he took lessons from a fellow named Fred Elias in Omaha, Nebraska. And Fred Elias was a f fellow, I think he was a conductor actually for the Union Pacific Railroad. He was one of these guys who was part of uh almost a cult of trumpet players where you would have the type of person who would who would hang a trumpet by a string from the ceiling and it would come down and it would meet his lips and he'd somehow just play a triple high C, something like that, because he was into this buzz system, but buzzing, buzzing the mouthpiece for to get any note at all. And so he was a part of this uh thing called the Fred Elias buzz system. And my dad took uh trumpet lessons from him and he always wanted to play trumpet. He was always uh enamored with uh folks like Al Hurt. Um that was his favorite trumpet player. And I started taking trumpet lessons from my dad early on, and it didn't really uh I kind of got started the wrong way and was using too much pressure and eventually ended up going to uh Woodwind to to the Woodwinds in junior high school and uh played clarinet for a while and then and then um they needed somebody in ninth grade to play play tuba in the band, being around a bunch of junior high school clarinet players, including myself. I mean, even I couldn't stand my own sounds, so so I just I just moved to the back row and uh played Susaphone in the back of the South Junior High School band in Downey, California. And um so that's why I started in on playing that and and then uh kind of played clarinet and and tuba all at the same uh at the same time, and then finally when I was a senior in high school, I stuck with tuba for the entire year. And uh that's when I started, that's when I I met Jeff Reynolds and uh who is uh a choir director at the Moravian Church of Downey, and I was asked to play a Nebraska quintet there, and here the choir director gets up and plays a trombone solo, and I thought he sounded pretty good, so I told him I sounded pretty good. Then found out the next week that he had just won the LA Philharmonic job, and I I just got sucked into this this this thing of what Jeff was, and Jeff was just a real hero for me, and to this day is a real hero. For many people, oh yeah, for many people. He's it. Yeah, I just saw him last uh February when the Orchestra Chicago Symphony was on tour in California, and uh my old college roommate George Russell and I we uh uh we went up to Grass Valley, California, and uh uh Nevada City is the exact town where he lives, and uh hung out with he and Jeannie for a couple hours in the afternoon and just had a blast, you know, being uh being around Jeff again. He picks up his G-bass trombone and sounds no quiver in the sound at all. The guy's uh 82 years old and you know, just sounds fantastic. He's got a he's got a a bunch of retired trombone players in Nevada City, California. Um they meet once a week, 11 a.m. on Wednesday mornings. I mean, you have to be retired to be able to make a rehearsal like that. And and this so it's a big trombone ensemble, and Jeff plays his G-bass trombone. Um and the name of the group is called the Paleo Bones.

SPEAKER_06 19:00

Nice, that's beautiful. So when did you start working with Tommy Johnson and Roger Bobo?

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Uh Roger Bobo, let's see. Roger Bobo came a little bit earlier on because uh Jeff's I took some tuba lessons from Jeff Reynolds when I was in high school. He said, You really, after a couple lessons, he said, You really ought to go see Bobo. And so I went and I would drive up to uh the Hollywood Hills and take a few lessons from Roger. Um he was living up there. He every every time I went for a lesson, he had changed houses somewhere. He was up in the Hollywood Hills, and then he was out in Topanga Canyon at several several places out there. Um and uh so that was starting off in my when I was a senior in high school. And I stopped taking lessons for a while and started to take lessons with Tommy Johnson in the second year of college. Um I started to take lessons with uh Larry Johansson, a trumpet player, and got some really, really great uh education from him. Um but I needed to be around tuba sound. And so it was my second year in college when I started to take lessons from Tommy Johnson. Um and I transferred to USC from the University of Redlands, started to take lessons very regularly with Tommy Johnson, and also restarted started to take up lessons again with Roger Bobo, and between the two of them they kind of railroaded me uh into doing some of the right stuff. And then I after my four years at uh in college, two years two of them at University of Redlands and two at USC, it's 1975, and I won this job in the Israel Philharmonic, extremely green, probably shouldn't have gotten the job, but uh Zubin Major took a chance uh at the behest of the lowbrow section of the LA Philharmonic, who I had gotten to know pretty well, and they and they said no, he'll do okay, even though everything for me was just gonna be br it was brand new. I mean, uh Major took a chance, so was very lucky to get into that job. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:18

So it well, and and share with uh especially with Phil here, uh what you were doing in 1973 that we all have in common, Phil, you and and I.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Oh, right, yeah. Well, Tinkerbell, as in Disneyland, I was in the Olympic College marching band.

SPEAKER_07 21:35

Oh fabulous.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah, that was uh this was at uh this was at the Anaheim. This was in Anaheim, Anaheim, yeah. Disneyland. So um yeah, Richard Watson was the other tuba player who had got who eventually got into the Honolulu symphony. In fact, he beat me in the audition for that job. And then uh and then he uh yeah, he was he was In that job for for quite a while. And uh unfortunately just passed away this past year. Yeah. Disneyland, we were there in Fantasyland. Boy, don't we know it. King Arthur's terrace and all that. And I know in our group we had to come, we have it was kind of a we had to come up with names for certain things. And we actually came up with the name, they had a new uh cafeteria. And so uh we ended up calling it the deck, uh the Disney Employees Cafeteria. And I think that name has stuck right up until today. It was the 1973 All-American College Marching Band that actually named that uh that thing. And you know, the Matterhorn, you know, it was it was it was made by there was no construction company in Southern California that could make it. So Disney actually created a company that could make the Matterhorn. Um, you know, and they actually had uh basketball courts on the inside of that thing for the employees they could wow.

SPEAKER_06 23:05

Man, I'm not sure our band was really known for anything, was it, Phil? No uh much.

SPEAKER_07 23:12

There were no tears shed by the director when we were done for the summer.

SPEAKER_06 23:16

That's true. They said thanks for coming. But you always had good choreography. Oh we could dance.

SPEAKER_07 23:22

Yeah. I guess what we lacked for in musical quality made up for in yeah, dance moves. A little bit.

SPEAKER_06 23:28

Phil, ask a question. Make it a good one. Come on.

SPEAKER_07 23:31

Oh, well, uh, Gene, I I I I know that sometimes in these interviews people try and go chronologically with you, but I I'd uh hopefully you won't mind if I have you skip ahead a little bit. Sure. Um I've had I've had more than one student both uh you know audit and be part of uh what's become the PC seminar. And I was I was wondering if if you could talk about you know your experiences uh starting that and and running it and teaching. Um is it uh something you still look forward to, I assume? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

It's uh it uh started out uh in Redlands, California. The nut behind the wheel be behind the entire uh thing uh is uh Andrew Glendenning, Dr. Andrew Glendenny, uh Trombone uh Trombone professor who is out there and actually ran the music department out there at University of Redlands. It's now moved to Northern Illinois University uh uh in DeKalb, Illinois, about 70 miles west of downtown Chicago. And um and it's been going now for boy, 17, 18 years, something like that. It's been going on for quite a while. And we brought in a lot of really wonderful, wonderful players, wonderful teachers. We've got uh an amazing thing happening uh actually this this uh this summer. Uh it'll be, let's see, I think it starts around July 12th. I think that's a Sunday, but uh July 13th, we're actually gonna have a Low Brass Ensemble concert. It's gonna consist of Tim Higgins, our me principal trombone, um, and uh Michael Mulcahy, second trombone in the Chicago Symphony. Randy Haas, uh bass trombone extraordinaire, who was in the Detroit Symphony, has been playing with Cleveland and and other places around. And I'm gonna be lucky enough to play tuba with him. So we're gonna have a uh I think an amazing concert on on July 13th. But uh we've got other folks coming in. We'll be uh we'll be uh Chris Chris Chris Bassett, bass trombone in um the St. Louis Symphony, Sergio Carolino, tubist extraordinaire, uh gonna be coming in from Portugal. So we we've got some really, really great players, and we have uh a remarkable uh bunch of warm-ups and and and solar recitals are gonna be given, and each of us gives a uh an important things talk as well. Just whatever happens to be important to us, uh whether it's anything musical, anything technical, any union issues, anything that they happens to be you can they can talk about botany as far as I'm concerned. One of the most incredible important things lecture we had was actually done by Ed Dickens, who, if that name isn't familiar, he's not a musician. He's the guy who runs the Union Pacific Big Boy Locomotive, the 4014, that's out there in Cheyenne, Wyoming. And he gave an incredible talk two years ago regarding teamwork and how to get people to work together, because he did the remarkable thing of having to put that big boy locomotive together after it had been in mothballs for sixty plus years out in the weather in Pomona, California, and they had to get it together for the sesquicentennial of the transcontinental celebration of the transcontinental railroad that happened in 2019, and it within a two-year period of time, he put that whole thing together and talk about a a real leader, a real a person who puts teamwork first. And as musicians, that's what our job is. How many tuba solos do we really have? You know, play it, play us, play 52 weeks, and you know, and you've got four majors in America in Paris. Thanks a lot. Most of the time, you know, you're you gotta play with other people. You you can't be renegade. That's what you guys try to do as band directors, is stuff. People have to play together and and and listen to one another and play together in spite of whatever conductors are doing or whatever. And so, um, and that's one of the things that uh Ed stressed to all of us there at this uh at the seminar. And there's a guy who doesn't even doesn't even play music, and he was giving us some really great instruction regarding teamwork, and that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

So well, wow, Gene, you mentioned some great names, and um you've been doing this for a couple of years. How has how have you seen the the tuba plane evolve or change? Or it feels like the artistry and what can be done in the instrument just keeps growing at a voracious rate.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

Well, certainly the technical stuff has has grown tremendously. I mean, you know, when you when you have people like Sergio Cook Carolino has a seven octave range on a on a bad day, you know. You know, it's it's pretty incredible. But uh You know the thing that the thing that really c bothers me a little bit, well, not by a little bit either. I I'm kind of disappointed that we have not done as much in terms of being expressive as far as being musicians and using espressivo and using uh ribato and and trying to alter our sound to make things sound a little bit better. It's it's it's it's as if we, you know, you want it louder or softer. What do you want? You know, it's we're we're playing uh when we're playing solos and uh I I one of the things that I I love to do is to have a piano vocal score of a putini aria uh and pass it out to the students and and then their job is that then on the on the video screen in front of us we'll put on a uh uh put on a live uh recording, um a live video uh of uh Luciana Pavarotti singing Elugivan Le Stella, say, from the opera Tosca or Nessum Dorma Um from Turandot or something. And and the students are to watch this piano vocal score and actually conduct along and try to keep the orchestra playing along with where Pavarotti is singing. And for the first time in their lives, they realize how we're how much robota you can actually put into into the music and how uh how the how the tempo can vary so very much. It's we usually don't put that much into the type of expressive playing that we ought to ought to do. I mean, you know, you hear the you hear so many uh performances of the second movement of the Vaughn Williams tuba concerto, it so many times it sounds like someone's mailing a letter. You know, it's just it's just there's just not that much that's going on.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

So anyway. So when you say that, would you would you like to see that happen more in the solo repertoire, in uh the orchestral repertoire, or just have tuba players have a chance to show how musical they can be?

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Well, certainly in the solo repertoire, they should be able to do that. And and when they when there is a bit of a solo that happens uh in the music, well, America in Paris. I mean, you can't take it too far out of context. You're kind of you've got a violin solo on one side and a bass clarinet on the other, and you're kind of stuck in the middle. But you can you can you can kind of hijack that solo a bit and do something with it, you know? Oh, it's uh like a true chuba player. Yeah, the conductor, I'll be right with you. You know, just uh, you know, you know, I I actually yeah, that's actually I did Baron Boyum was actually the what I mentioned earlier. I mean, you know, Barenboim wanted me to move the solo along some years ago when we were playing it. And I and I and well he and I had a we had a great relationship. We we you know we could fun around with one another pretty well. And and I and I told him in the rehearsal in front of everybody, I said, Maestra, you've got you've got 52 weeks. I've got four measures, okay? You you run the whole band, you know, but but I've got these four measures. Let me have them.

SPEAKER_06 32:29

Little sense of urgency in that. Now, what how about Klaus uh Michaela? Did I say that right?

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Uh because you're not I'm not sure. I mean, with the umlauts all over the place, I I it I think that's right. Michaela, I'm I'm I I I've I've got a I've gotta ask him, you know. So it's uh Maestro Klaus, you know, so whatever.

SPEAKER_06 32:49

I you well you did the American of Paris with him conducting, I believe, that night. Is that the same night as right as right right a spring? My God, is did I do that really? Yeah, you really did. Oh my god. What's it like? Uh what's it like? I mean, when I saw him conduct, one, I'm like, okay, he's what, 20 years old or something. He looks just very young, but uh just drum dynamic conductor. I mean, so what what's it like under his baton?

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Well, we haven't had that much time with him, but he's extremely exciting, and he's very, very inviting for us to play. It's it's not like he's he's giving you a dark look, you know, that's that's very worried about what's gonna happen next, and he's gonna control you and stuff. He's you know, he's he's inviting you to come in and to participate fully in in the music making. Um and there's a lot of conductors who don't make you so uh feel so good. Uh you know, they're always kind of kind of tentative, but with him, he's he's he's expressing the joy of of having us there. And you know, it's uh it's uh it's a good thing having him there. It's a good it's a good thing. So I and he he's very open and he's very willing to uh to uh to to uh to give his ideas out and to and to and to hear ideas from us. And I don't know too many conductors who aren't willing to to uh to to to not do that, at least the the conductors who come and and see us. Um you know and uh Ricardo Muti, he's very open to hearing ideas and that, and you know, if he if he doesn't feel that way, he'll he'll push back, and you know, that's and that's fine, you know. I think we in the orchestra would much rather have a conductor up there who's not milked toast, who really has some definite ideas and is very willing to do some leading, um, but also uh knows when to kind of back off and let us have our way of doing things, and then um but but then is very willing to to come in and and really kind of lay down the law. That was you know, we had we just had 10 years or so with uh Ricardo Muti, and he knew exactly what to do with the orchestra as far as when we needed when when we needed the help, when we needed to have absolute direction, and when he could kind of let us go and let us be expressive. So uh um, and I'm thinking that uh Klaus Mekele is is he's a young enough conductor that he's still very, very willing to direct a lot, but also willing to learn a lot. And um uh it's uh I think there's gonna be a lot of growth that's gonna be happening in the orchestra uh over the next couple years with him at the head. It's exciting. It's it's it's exciting to watch, especially you know, with younger players coming into the orchestra now, as with Tim Higgins on principal trombone, which has changed the entire lowbrow section on every metric in in in very many ways. Our new principal new principal trumpet uh uh Esteban uh Esteban Esteban uh uh we call him Tebby. Well I call him Tebby because Yeah, that's his nickname. And you know, it's a lot easier than the other one for me. So he's he he's a great guy. I mean the principal trumpet is just such a tremendous so yeah, there's there's a lot of good things that are going on in the orchestra. So amazing timpany player whether we've had now for uh the last little while. It makes all the difference in the world. So yeah. That was stunning. Go ahead, Paul.

SPEAKER_07 36:46

Gene, I uh you uh do uh quite a bit of teaching, and I bet uh you know a good chunk of those tuba players that come to play for you are pretty darn good players. Um, but I bet you still find yourself um saying certain things, um, you know, similar things in many of the lessons that you teach. What what are the some of the cardinal things that you end up coming back to with these great tuba players that you listen to? Wait, let me grab a pencil quick.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Oh, um, I think um well the being expressive and to have a story that you're trying to that you're uh trying to tell when you are playing, say, a solo piece, uh is is really important. And the story has to be in a way autobiographical. You if you can if you can you if you can the music relate to something emotional in your in your life, in your biography, and something that m matters to you, uh then uh then you've got more of a message to give across. If you're playing, say for instance, in in the orchestra repertoire, if you're playing Grand Canyon Suite and you come to the um the uh cloudburst section, near the I think it's called what's it's cloudburst, I think is the is the movement. Where the storm, you know, I'm yeah, it yeah, it's it's a big it's you're in the Grand Canyon and you've got this thunderstorm that's coming in and you've got lightning going all over the place. Well, it it works the way I uh the I the way I can relate to it is by thinking of it as a steam locomotive that is is is building up pressure and getting ready to to leave. It's gotta it's gotta move 14,000 tons behind it. And it you know, you just got all this power that just has to has to has to get going. And I'm and so I'll take kind of take that music and kind of channel it into the story that I have, which is about this steam locomotive. Um and so when I have students um and they're playing certain, you know, if if they're playing uh some some Schubert leader or if they're playing uh the second movement of Vaughn Williams, I try to get them to think about uh some uh romantic thing that's happened in their life, or if they've been or if they've had if if if they've had the experience of being a jilted lover or something like that, I try to get them to uh have these take these different emotions uh and anger and hate and love and sadness and surprise, anger, fear, joy, and to somehow channel all of that into a piece of music. Um and if they can be a little more expressive and relate to that, then I I think those are the things that are uh that are really kind of making my things in the teaching that I want them to kind of relate to. And I I can tell you one thing, I uh when I at Northwestern I feel much luckier when um the other person who teaches with me, uh Matt Gaunt, uh has a chance to actually work with these these players on more of the technical issues and that because I have I have a tendency to kind of go off into this expressive thing. And and you know, and they're and they're worried about where the tongue is supposed to be placed when they single tongue. But I'm talking to them about the things, you know, and and in a way, I'm I I I was I think I I think a lot of them would be better off if they had probably a little more time with Matt than they did with me, uh especially at the front end thing. So um I don't know. That's I kind of where I'm at.

SPEAKER_07 40:46

So And now a message from our sponsors. Concert night. You've studied your scores, you've thoughtfully chosen your baton and outfit. The value of the instruments on stage is nearly priceless. You represent the composer, the musicians, and your institution. Behind you in the audience are your peers, proud family members, community, and even potential donors.

SPEAKER_06 41:07

My question is this Are you standing on a squeaky, mass-produced podium that was bought long before you arrived? I know I've stood on that podium. A conductor's foundation should match their artistry.

SPEAKER_05 41:21

Well, I can tell you I'm not on that podium because I have two of these silent stage podiums, which are gracefully designed to complement the instruments with abstract from the need. They're built with American oak, elegant brass railings, sound dampening rubber-backed carpet and velvet red, and steps on both sides, which fold in easily for a smaller footprint. Each podium is delivered in its three rolling case for podiums, five backstage pumps, dust, or even like we take these long ensemble tours.

SPEAKER_06 41:49

Commuter, elevate your presence with silent stage podium. Stay with me, Silent Stage Podiums. Find out more at Silent Stagepodiums.com. Now back to our show. Dean, you've been part of so many amazing performances. And uh I I'm just selfishly, I'm thinking about the Rite of Spring just the other night. Um, and that bassoon. I mean, the opening, there was like 20 some seconds of just silence, and it was just one of the most amazing kind of musical moments, just for that tone to come in and so on. Is there a specific or a particular moment or musical moment that you can recall one that maybe stands out as a favorite for you?

SPEAKER_02 42:30

You're speaking of the the bassoon solo in The Right of Spring, right? That was amazing. Yeah, Keith, yeah, Keith is a very young player anyway, from Costa Mesa of all places, California.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Incredible. Well, I've um I'm trying to think of of recordings. I mean, I the there's trying to think of any number of clarinet solos that have happened with our new principal clarinet player, Steven Williamson. Um there was uh there was a Rachmanov second symphony, second movement that just you know, just just brought me right down to, you know, uh the the tears, you know. So I guess in a well, uh actually come to think of it, uh there's a piece that Jeff Reynolds wrote called Skirmish and Dance. It's on my big boy CD. It's one of the pieces that we are preparing for for this July 13th concert that's coming up. Nice. And playing it first time in many, many years. I know somewhat of the story behind the writing of that piece and how it It um the the genesis of it and and the way Jeff wrote it, kind of a biography of the Chicago Symphony section and the skirmish, the the storied problems that happened in the previous section between Edward Kleinhammer and Chrissa Foley. And that was the skirmish, and then this kind of coming together and this final this this corral where where things just kind of come together. And it it it really did just it just hits me really emotionally. So um I'm not sure anymore about it. It it certainly hit me in a big way. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:43

No, it's it's authentic. And and just your uh just the time you take to think through that, I mean, it just shows your thoughtfulness, it shows again how much the other members of this organization mean to you. I mean, it's clear that you all have a relationship, you know, like there is a connection between um you and and the other members. Does it is is it a family? I mean, does it really work as a as a team that way?

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Uh it does in that it's uh it's it's there's a lot of genuine feelings for one another. Um there are certain certain relationships that are that can be kind of stressed, can be estranged. And one thing that I've realized is that you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. Um there's uh I I get along uh for example, I I probably say this with no with no real issues. I uh Charlie Vernon and I get along really well. He's he's uh he's uh he's a lovely person. I I enjoy him very much. We get along very well personally and that. Do we see each do we see each other uh on the same strand of things musically? A lot of times we don't. We don't have an eye we don't have a common idea regarding um uh balance sometimes that we have you know we have to really kind of work at some of the intonation issues and and balance issues and stuff, and and it can be rather frustrating for him, it can be somewhat frustrating for me. We try to get together and try to make some some things happen. Uh personally, uh I'm I'm very close to him, you know. But we we realize that's the that's a difference, and so you know, we we we we try to make that happen. And you know, I've uh try to I I know for me, I try to be friendly with most everybody in the band. There's some people I don't I don't speak with at all. Um but that but but those are very few. Those are very few. Otherwise, um we it i it it is a family. Um and as Mulkay has pointed out, uh you know, when you get into a section, it's it's like an arranged marriage. You're you don't have you you don't really have a choice in who you're gonna sit next to. That's true, that's right. You know, you don't know what you're gonna get stuck with. And and I remember some years ago uh Sir George Schulte had this thing called the Schulte Orchestra Project. It was a Carnegie Hall. And he was taking questions one day, and and there was a young student violinist who was in this was in this orchestra, which was made up of a couple professional kind of professionals that were kind of the coaches and the first the principal players, and they had students who made up the rest of the section. And it was kind of a a question-answer period. And uh and this person, the young person had just gotten a job in a into in one of the orchestras, and she was saying, you know, I got just got into this job and I'm sitting at the back of the second violin section. I'm sitting this next to this older guy who complains about everything that's going on in the orchestra, complains about, you know, the work schedule is so hard, you know, we don't have enough of a break. And why are they changing the Boeings here on the last rehearsal? And, you know, we never we never get paid enough, you know, and all this. Meantime, the person uh she says this person is missing half the cues and is not playing half the notes. So what do you suggest I do? She's asking Sir George Schultz, and Schulte says, Well, change orchestras. No, that's not an answer. You know, it's uh it's just not an answer. You know, you have to get along with with people, you know.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

So um Gene, I have two unrelated questions you can choose to answer both or neither of them. One one would be, is there a piece you'd like orchestra conductors to program more often? Because they're either fun for a tuba player to play or they're pieces um that you think people should hear more often. And two, the second question would be I don't know, pick a year. In 40 or 50 years, what would you want people to say the legacy Gene Percorney left was? What would be your fingerprint on the tuba world?

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Uh he provided a good bridge between Arnold Jacobs and whoever the next guy is. Because it's it's as far as I'm concerned, it's it's it's Arnold Jacobs chair. I mean, it it always will have that uh that distinction. It's the Arnold Jacobs principal tuba chair, the Chicago Symphony. And his legacy as a player, as a teacher, as a mentor, as as a personality, uh it's that's gonna it's it's gonna continue. I i it's very hard to get get past, at least for me, to get past the idea that, well, I'm I'm kind of a a failed clarinet player, anchor time my way into oblivion, you know, and finally picked up this tube in junior high school and ended up, you know, just kind of floating to the top, you know, just you know, the sludge kind of there I am. Kind of film on the top and managed to be in a right place at the right time. Um I happen to like music a lot, but I I don't I I hope I can uh bridge the gap between what this position is now and where it will be sometime in the near future, you know. So I've what they what is it, Covey says, what they think about me is none of my business, you know.

SPEAKER_06 50:39

Uh that's pretty good. Well, Gene, I can tell you uh for a fact, there there is no bridge. You are um in my book right there. It's a it's a it's a love seat. It's you and Jacobs. Uh there's plenty of room for both of you. Um just just an amazing career, and uh you bring such humanity uh to this and thoughtfulness and artistry. And uh I tell you, you have shaped my career. I mean, I remember coming to your house in 1991 with Mickey Robleski and uh and having a lesson. And you know, again, good friend Mickey, you know, and it just seeing where he's at and the way you've mentored him and uh supported his career and so on. You've touched a lot of lives. And so for that, I am deeply grateful. So thank you for coming on the show and thank you for all you continue to do um for music and music education.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

Well, I'm I'm honored that you asked me to be a part of this. And uh when you get it down to the when you whittle it down to the to probably the stuff that's worth keeping, it'll probably be a five-minute interview. You know, something like that. Yeah. So um, no, I'm I'm I'm lucky. I I when I when I walk up the stairs in Orchestra Hall, I pinch myself every time that I'm lucky enough to be there. And um it's all about relationships, it's it's all about making the right stuff happen. And um I I've just been incredibly lucky to be to be here. So yeah. Probably a little bit of hard work in there somewhere. Well yeah, I'm thinking about the you know, the the Milky Way and you know the you know the 13.8 billion uh years of of of stellar evolution and you know what what's happened with with with life and you know Carl Sagan, the pale blue dot.

SPEAKER_08 52:44

That's here. That's home, that's us. On it, everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was lived out their lives.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

And yeah, there are we still have to worry about long tones. Jesus. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 53:06

We gotta show that's the big ass locomotive. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

That's yeah, yeah. Be able to, you know, say to the world, well, what do you do for a living?

SPEAKER_04 53:19

Well, thanks a lot.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

No. No, it's really a pleasure to be with you guys. And and as far as music education, because I know you're all involved with music education, you know, what you do with young people and letting them see the beauty and working together and being a part of teamwork without having to have a computer in front of them, having to Google what what is teamwork or anything, and you're making them be a part of of a team. That's uh that is so important, and it makes such a difference. I'm I'm I'm humbled by that that uh stewardship that you've taken on to go ahead and be a part of uh affecting young people as you are.

SPEAKER_07 54:13

Because that's Gene, that's what I'm saying. Gene, we tried other careers, we just failed at all the other ones and sort of backed backed our way into this one.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

Well, truthfully, there's nothing more fulfilling than putting on a recording of the Chicago Symphony and watching students just light up and feel inspired and then have a goal to aspire to. Um, or if it's a piece they've never heard before, to see them just engage with that. Um, it it can change their perspective forever. So that's always a fun moment.

SPEAKER_06 54:47

It's usually followed with me saying, Hey, why can't you sound like that? It's just that easy. I mean, come on, back to one tangle, let's go. Play it like they did.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Well, if you ever bring your groups down to down to Chicago, I, you know, I have no problem getting together and showing them that, you know, we uh we all put our pants on one leg at a time. There's nothing nothing that extraordinarily special about what we're doing. We just happen to be rather lucky and having the openness to realize that it's all part of being uh wanting to put together a product that's that's bigger, that's uh that's greater than the sum of the parts. That's all. Yeah, you know, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 55:32

So Gene, we end the show uh each time with our guests by asking one simple question, um, we force you into a binary, and it's your turn, and that is this Shostakovich or Mahler. You gotta choose. Listening or playing? Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

Playing. Let's go playing. For you. Okay. I uh I okay, I it's gonna have to be the Mahler. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Yeah. Yeah. I'm uh yeah, I like to I'm I'm I keep on thinking back to that solo in in Shostakovich 13, Fears, you know, the uh Bobby Yarr, the the Bobby Yar symphony, and that is so impactful about all these all these uh these thousands and thousands of people who in two days were just mowed down by the by the by the Nazis uh in a two-day period of time and into this pit in Bobby R and the solo. It just it's part of that one movement, and you know, you you've got so much there's so much that the tuba is doing in so little time. It's there's a there's a big message, you know, and there's so much is just attached to that. It's just you know and you take that and you know and you and you know and you have images of what you've seen at the at the uh at the Holocaust Museum, you know, in in in Washington, DC or something, and you think about all all of what's all of what really happened and and then you're the messenger. You've got this responsibility that's just incredible. You know, it's uh it's a big yeah. That's heavy. But on the other hand, you know, when you have something like the Resurrection Symphony of of Mahler, you know, and you gotta and you and uh that the the big end and you're just symphony incredible love to be in the position that I'd been to be able to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_06 57:31

So well, hey, uh here's a new promise, and that's every single time we come down to hear another uh performance, I'm bringing a cherry pie. So I'll just let you know, and uh I'll meet you afterwards and we'll get you the pie. Oh there's a reason to lose all right, thank you, sir.

SPEAKER_02 57:53

Appreciate it. Thanks, Gene. All right, Chris, Paul, Phil. What a pleasure, Gene. What a pleasure. Great. Well, don't be strangers. Come on down, you know.

SPEAKER_03 58:01

We'll do all right. Wow.

SPEAKER_07 58:08

You know, I noticed that he spent he spent most of the time talking about his colleagues. It's a very deferential person, but most people we talk about that tuba sound. You know, when you hear the orchestra, you hear that sound, it's just hard not to talk about him, but he preferred to talk about all his colleagues.

SPEAKER_06 58:23

It's very nice. Yeah, and just how fortunate he is. And while yes, but it's like how fortunate we are.

SPEAKER_03 58:31

I mean, right. But it's nice that that's not lost on him, that he's grateful and thankful every day. Phil, you tried to push him on the work, but just the idea like you have done something to earn this. And he's like, no, I was just lucky, just dumb luck. Wow. Yeah. Well, I'm thrilled to be a part of such a special session. That was terrific.

SPEAKER_07 58:51

Yeah. So how many pies have you given him now, Chris? I mean, how how many did you have to load in there to get him to do this?

SPEAKER_03 58:56

Well, so the twice two for Miles, one for Gene, two for Miles, one for Gene.

SPEAKER_06 59:00

That's true. Goodness, Miles was uh well. So Mickey was at uh Mickey Robleski came back and played with Gene and Chicago Symphony for Right of Spring. And so Mickey texted me when he was back in the States and he's like, hey, Gene loves cherry pies from Norskinook. Can you stop and get him one? And I forgot to order it in advance. So I'm drive to DeForest and I get out and I'm like walking in, and I'm like, please tell me you have a cherry pie left. And they looked at me and they go, Yeah, we got one. You want it? I'm like, Yes. Give me the pie. And uh so then after the performance, then got to see Mick again, which was great. And so And Gene comes out and I give him the pie, and he looks at me and he goes, Oh my. Oh my. This is serious, so am I. So he likes his cherry pie, though. That's uh that's a thing. Anything cherry said. So anyway, yeah, it was fun. Good guy. I have no bambuzzler. Why? Because the bam bustler person is on with us, um, and he wrapped up his contract a few weeks ago, and I don't have a bamboozler because I wrapped up my own contract a few weeks ago. So, and I have to get ready for a festival.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:10

So I'm gonna I'm gonna then I can ask Paul a qu a question. We'll we'll bamboozle him. So, Paul, boozle. You do your final concerts of the year with your band, and then you have a whole like week and a half left with your people. What can what can you do with them in that period of time at the end of the year?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:28

Oh, it depends on the grade level. When it with 10th graders, we start passing out the new pet band book, the marching band book, and we'll just start reading those through all of those. And then we have an elementary school that's just on the other side of the woods, and those little critters will crawl through the woods and they'll come up for a little concert. And the teachers crawl all over each other, like who gets to go for the concert? Because we only have four periods of the day when we can do it, and we'll just play for them outdoors and just you know, run through pet band tunes and have fun with that. With my top band, sometimes we'll just read, read, read, or sometimes I'll let the seniors go and have an extra long lunch, and I'll have junior meeting time figuring out how are they gonna put their fingerprint on next year and get them thinking about the next year? Yeah. I there's really it's never a dull moment. I never feel like I have to manufacture something or do something wild. It's just fun hanging with the kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:26

Chris, what do you do in your last uh 10 days of the semester of the year?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:29

Yeah, of my semester. And the year doesn't clean clean your tuba. Clean your tuba week and a half? Yeah. Find my tuba is what I need to do. Yeah, no, those last couple weeks were really kind of it was interesting. Glenn Hayes asked me this once. He goes, Chris, what would you do if there were no performances? How would your classroom look different? And then COVID hit. But it was a fascinating question. I mean, he asked me literally 10 years ago, you know, long before COVID, and I really did make me think a little bit about how much does the performance drive the bus? And what would I do if I could free up some things? Would I that be a little more creative? Would I spend a little more time doing some different things? So I took that to heart, and it made me really think about creating some new opportunities for students to take some more ownership and do some different things that I wouldn't have done otherwise. And Phil, do you put the trombone down for a while or at the end?

SPEAKER_07 1:02:23

At the end of the school year? Yeah. No, no, I do the exact opposite. You actually practice. Yeah, I have I've got a few minutes in the day, and man, I I have been hitting it. Uh, but I have a pretty rather large gig coming up that Paul's aware of. So I gotta I gotta have my face together for that gig. But we just had a long run of in the opera. Got Minnesota Winds, gonna follow that with a bunch of Broadway work. So it's time to get cracking and get playing right now. Um But with my band, um I have a specific thing that I always do. Um we record young band music. Um so uh I'll get a new piece that a new composer that's just looking to have their music recorded by a decent sounding ensemble, and um it'll be a one-day challenge. You get the music, you get everything, we've got the next 35 minutes. We'll read it once, we're gonna rehearse it, and it's gotta sound in tune and like you know, good enough to put put on a composer's website. And that usually gets the students pretty juiced. Yeah. For that, I'll get their best. Yeah. I'll get their best right then for that 35 minutes. Then it's over. We need to eat cookies or something.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:36

Let me share one of those recordings. And this recording was made by Phil's ensemble recently. And the recording is of a new piece of music by Erica Savano called Max Joy. And so we have a special guest that's going to come on here in the last uh couple seconds here. But quick story though, okay, and this does involve Phil. Um, and that is this piece called Max Joy. So Max died three years ago, uh, today, actually. And so Max Roker was a little boy who um passed away from leukemia. And my colleague, uh, just devastating to see her and her family go through the loss of a son. I mean, um, something I can't even possibly fathom, you know. Since that time, they created um a foundation called Max Joy. And the whole point was or is to pass along um the joy and radiance that this little you know kid um passed along to others. And so what's really fascinating, I'll just pop this up and commuter, I'll show you pictures. But this is Max. And uh he was just this beautiful little child who would just create joy and give it to others. And so the idea of Max Joy Foundation is to do the similar things, to raise money and so on, to give to folks that need a little bit of joy at those really difficult times in life. And seeing this foundation do all this amazing thing, I thought to myself, something has to be done. Like there's some way I have to be able to help. And so I reached out to Erica Savano. Uh Savano, I said, Hey, can we write a piece of music? And I will commission you to do this. And I would like a fanfare that's kind of at a like a very accessible level, like a grade two, two and a half. And part of the gig will be that I want to give it away at least for a few months, and let's get it out there. But inside, we're gonna talk about Max, but we're also gonna do an idea where we're gonna ask students who perform the piece to do a joy challenge, meaning to give to others without any uh concept of receiving anything in return. And so this just launched on let's pass Monday. Um, we did the world premiere here in at Bayport High School with. To Eau Claire Lum, you know, the Seagriss, Ashley and Kyle, friend of show, but their wind ensemble did the performance, and we had Laura and her family come, and they had no idea that we were doing the spremier or that this commission was made possible. And so the entire concert was about joy. So of course they played to Kelly's Joy and Joy Revisited and Markowski's Joy Ride and all this. But what was really awesome is that Laura's sister, Katie Thibodeau, teaches still. This is her, this is where she grew up. So this is home base for Laura. And her sister still teaches in town. And so we've got students across the district that did the Joy Challenge, created a cool compilation. And so at the concert, we got up and we started talking about this piece. And um her whole family was there, extended family. We showed the great video of all these joy challenges going on, and then the premiere with Erica um in in attendance as well. And uh then afterwards presented her with the score um signed by Erica and so on.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:04

So that's Chris. Bravo. Well, yeah, the work is free.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:10

So commuter, go on our uh, I'll put it in the show notes for this week. It's also up on our Beyond the Notes website too. But grab it while you can while it's free, and then inside the uh score is all the information on how to do the joy challenge with your own students. And for those who feel so moved, uh they can donate right to Max Joy and uh help them continue the great mission of um sharing that joy and passion to others who need it desperately. Wow, it was good. It was oh yeah, it sure was. And uh to end the show, you ready? One more Disney connection. Here we go. That's right. This is another gentleman who played in the All-American College Band. It is indeed our greatest. Well, I gotta say, he's he's probably tied for the uh biggest fan of the show. This is the brother that we never asked for. Go ahead and reveal yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

Hey, I'm sorry, I was I was so motivated. I've been doing long tones and trying to incorporate my joy. And I just got back from a trombone dinner, and I had some pantyhose over my face. So hopefully it yeah, my complexion is well right now for this. So it's such an honor to be here. What an outstanding season, and it is a uh pleasure to be to be with this great company.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:38

The two greatest Chicago tuba players in one night. We've got uh Gene Picard. Now Jack and Sella. I mean, look at that. We are all set, right? And he's got his tuba is in hand, his tuba is in his hand, people.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

You gotta love it. You gotta love it. The tuba is here because the trombones are in the basement where they belong. That's right. That's right. Well, trombone's not my first axe. I I cover all three, uh and to to to uh just to be part of this and to to hear it. And I was cutting the lawn today and uh was listening to other previous podcasts and a uh recently released one. These are gold. You guys are the brothers I never wanted, but you're brothers because you always have something important to say. There's always a message that I need to hear, and it's wrapped in a lot of fun, fun camaraderie. So thank you for all that you do. Commuter, I'll be commuting with you tomorrow morning in the early a.m. Hopefully get into the band room before seven, and uh we're all in this together.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:45

I think I just heard the kickoff to season five. Something important wrapped in fun. Season five.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:53

What do you think, Phil? Wrapped in I mean what would you wrap it in? Probably bacon. Probably probably good bacon.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:03

No, I can think of really pretty much no better way to spend uh Chris Bleason's birthday than visiting with the two greatest Chicago tuba players that I know. You know? So happy birthday, Chris. Happy birthday, Chris.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:17

Happy birthday, thank you. Yep, 25, baby. 25. Feeling good. Times two. And then some. Hey, uh no. Big thanks, Jack. Thanks for coming on, buddy. Great to see you. Thank you, Paul, for filling in for Peter. Peter, we missed you. We hope your mom's doing better. Thank you, Phil. Thank you, Eric Songer, Mike Casper, the coach, Tim Gleason, Silent Stage Podiums. And hey, thank you, commuter. Wishing you a great summer and look for us again in the fall because this can only get better. Take us out, Gene. Beyond Artless is sponsored by Beyond the Notes Music Festival. Our mission is to create and provide profound learning and social experiences through music that go beyond the notes. Visit BTN MusicFestival dot com to learn more.